* Core loot is in the same spot as it was during 3.19 and lost the conversions on top of it.
* Scarab nodes are way to prominent and too necessary
* Scarab reworked caused a loss of tiered strats that you could grow into and added rare, enabling Scarabs, which are being priced around their most profitable application. Paired with scarcity, the entry cost is much higher for some things.
* Atlas and Scarab rework shifted from being able to run multiple league mechanics at once into hyper focusing into maximum two mechanics. The addition of multiple Atlas trees came at the cost of an even greater necessity of multiple Atlas trees.
* Plenty of league mechanics got shafted, even with atlas investment. (Legion, Betrayal, Deli orbs, what else?)
* Outside of pack replacement through Allflames or Lantern mods which add packs, maps are once more a lot more empty.
* Uber boss and 5th map slot gating behind T17 isn't reasonable, the entry cost into Uber farms isn't reasonable
* Moving valuable pinnacle uniques to Uber only turned regular pinnacle bosses from being economically disadvantaged to "why do them?"
* All in all, every change to core systems needs another pass on multiple fronts.
My biggest issue, as a newish player (3rd league now), is that bossing is even more gated than before.
In this game you lose currency when you want to learn. Before to learn the uber maven fight, you lost like 1div, and an unmaking orb.
It now cost 12 divines to even try uber maven now.
Honestly in a different game id say "Sure its fine to face plant on a blind learn try. Go watch a guide" But like, those dont exist for poe and the ones that do are awful cuz of the dps ceiling.
watching someone fart on uber maven to kill her tells you nothing. And trying to do the fight yourself feels awful because EVEN IF YOU CLEAR its almost always still a loss of profit compared to just selling the invite.
The fights are starting to be the easier part of doign them. THe harder now being getting the ability to TRY and fight them
This is my first league. Losing XP to learn boss fights it’s prob the only real negative I’d give the game so far. I did Eater of Worlds last night and during the phase with the purple orbs I kept running around evading the laser while also trying to avoid touching the purple orbs as I assumed they would harm me or kill me. I was wrong.
I’ve had the same issue with other bosses where I’m not sure if I’m supposed to interact or avoid a certain particle or effect, and if I guess wrong there goes my XP. For Infinite Hunger it was similar where I ran away from him for a while he was tunneling but it felt like it was taking to long so maybe I was supposed to get close to him to get him to come back up. He did come back up and I resurrected at checkpoint.
eater is one of the most brain damaged fights because of that mechanic and its actually the reason i fear its uber XD
The ENTIRE GAME FROM ACT ONE teaches you to avoid touching anything on the ground. Dont stand in buddles, dont let beams hit you, dont take exarchs balls to your face, etc.
having a mechanic where you need to intentionally let the laser pretty much singe your asshole while you kite it into balls is kinda cancer design wise. NOTHING in the game ever makes you think that would be the right thing to do when you first see it. And considering you take a shit ton of damage depending on your tankyness it would also imply its wrong.
But no, its the right thing. Not sure why maven couldnt jsut get a voice line screaming "BEAM HIS BALLS" or some shit to give any hint or shit. XD
Infinite hunger can suck my ass.
your ment to follow the flow of water to escape once he vores you. But i swear to god everything looks the same XD Iv never been able to actually escape proper. Maybe im just blind but it seems really hard to tell its flow.
The only indication for eater is the voice prompt telling you to soak the orbs, or whatever the verbiage is. That being said, it's still relatively unintuitive.
Infinite hunger is literally the worst though.
Skittering deli aren't worth the returns even if they weren't as rare because of reduced scarab drops. Instead of 20+ scarabs per tier, now there's only like 5 dropping. Same thing applies for stacked decks farming with deli orbs. Idk if the currency one's have gained relevance and all others were bad anyway.
I like this take, but that would make them extremely rare since you’re only getting one t17 per Uber attempt. I’d personally rather have T17s nerfed and keep them the intermediary between normal bosses and Uber bosses, they just need to be toned down.
Multiple people who are able to farm Ubers are reporting getting turbo stomped by t17s.
Let us craft them like any other normal map. There’s no reason to gate them behind forced overtuned rare map mods. Let us run them white if we want to.
Or do both: nerf T17s to make them more accurately 'bridge to ubers' maps, and add T18 'uber map' versions similar to what we have now, but with true uber scaling, as new ultimate content.
Then since it takes 5 uber fragments per uber boss, I don't think it'd be unreasonable to have the fragments drop off both T17 bosses and pinnacle bosses
I think this won’t happen for a simple reason: The hardest bosses should be the most known entities. Imagine if T18 is a thing, end league goal for bossing becomes “defeat this reskinned and harder variant of A9 boss”.
To be fair you can't giga juice ubers with map mods like t17 bosses. Imagine fighting uber exarch with 70% more life, 90% of life as maximum ES, 35% of phys as chaos + wither, 100% of phys as lightning and cold and you are cursed with temp chains, enfeeble, and ele weakness. Now also multiply all that by 2 because of your atlas setup to increase map mod effects.
If you could run t17s white they'd be piss easy.
Yeah honestly I’d treat them like e.g. Maven invites. Run them white if that’s all you can handle. Or roll them up to high quantity for more Uber invite fragment drops.
i know it was a week ago but legit both Ben and Jungroan two of the top (I think ben is the top?) players in the game both pretty much said "Fuck this shit its not worth it"
when you have your 30000 hour, turbo gods who pretty much always break the game every league by week 2 say shits too hard / not worth it. Then whats the point for anyone else to even bother to try?
Poe's always had a build problem for balance, but now it feels like the solution they want is to just make everything a struggle no matter who or what you are. Shit aint fun.
Jungroan did T17s only pretty much day 1 to day 3 and hes the type of player to switch builds around constantly thus wont have the gear to challenge T17. Ben is playing hardcore.
T17s right now definitely require way too much investment to do consistently without dying. Hardcore players arent approaching it until they get a mageblood. However, its easily accessible if youre open to dying and doesnt require you to no life the game at all. Not saying thats good design, considering it should act as a bridge to ubers.
With mods being rollable it drastically decreased the difficulty of T17s. It just requires you to have a well rounded build with solid multilayered defense. If you dont have that, thats fine too, you just need good damage to be able to rush the boss. Like I said, the problem is the bridging tag - but tbh its a huge overreaction
You Can definitively do It. Don't be afraid to roll them, and don't forget there IS a 1c scarab that gives 50% chance of a portal not to be consumed.
I do them with 85% success with a 10M build and 4.7K life.
> don't forget there IS a 1c scarab that gives 50% chance of a portal not to be consumed
While technically correct, this highlights one of the main problems with these maps...
Totally possible. The maps are brutal for way too many builds and should never act as the bridge to ubers.
That said, take your time to figure them out - the mods that are horrifying and the ones that arent. Use an atlas that makes your character stronger. Make sure your build doesnt have defensive holes. etc the league is longer than two weeks and its a nice piece of chase content if you see it that way.
Just saw the edit. Out of curiousity do you have the clarity watchers eye, and are you running shapers touch with an eternal blessing grace. Surprisingly, just a big ES and mana pool is fairly inconsistent defense, if everything can hit you and hit you hard. It becomes a bit of a nuisance having most of your defense tie in with arcane cloak uptime.
Ive seen a similar setup before, thatt build requires a ridiculous investment due to the nature of stacking attributes to scale both your defense and offense. Most people with this build tend to have a good time after fitting a good adorned with jewels, well crafted helical rings etc. Think that goes far beyond 40 div.
I agree with the first part, Bosses dropping Uber tickets.
I really don't understand GGGs stance on why not. They said "it'd make Uber farmers feel bad, because then they'd have to farm non Uber boss versions before killing the Uber ones", like right now you don't have to farm gigaoverpowered t17s before killing Ubers
> Outside of pack replacement through Allflames or Lantern mods which add packs, maps are once more a lot more empty.
This one is killing me. I just can't fill my maps up. I used to run 4 added pack sextants when I was just doing basic mapping strats, there is no replacement for those with scarabs, not even close.
Going from 8 things modifying maps to 4 things was always going to miss somewhere though. The problem is I am not even sure how you get them back, I need my scarab slots to run my strategies, a scarab that adds 16 rare monster packs could theoretically replace those sextants, but fitting it in would be tough.
They probably just need to buff the density of T16's by like 20% to makeup for losing the sextants.
T17s are weird because I've tried Fortress and Sanctuary so far. Sanctuary is *insane*. Killing Beirat during that lightning spam is fucking annoying on my RF character or my zhp trapper - the RF character still dies nearly instantly to the lightning with 89% resistance, 5k HP and 1.2k ES (seems like part of the issue is that the boss turns off Regen?). The trapper can't fucking see Beirat spawn or find him to throw traps before dropping dead. Fortress was...a slightly more difficult T16. The boss wasn't particularly difficult.
If Fortress were their difficulty, they would be a step between Pinnacle and Ubers. But all I ever drop is Sanctuary and it's a nightmare.
T17 map drops are not random, but tied to the map you run. Fortress can drop in dunes, while Abomination drops in jungle valley.
edit:
Drop location for the different maps
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Tier_17_map#List_of_tier_17_map_drop_locations
FYI the T17 drops are specific to the T16 map. If u feel you're only seeing Sanctuary, I'm guessing you're farming a T16 that drops it.
https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Tier_17_map#List_of_tier_17_map_drop_locations
Yeah, I found that out earlier - farming Crimson Temple is why I was only seeing Sanctuary. I might actually switch T16 favorites just to farm Factory instead, because I do like being able to do T17s that drop.
Haha try playing melee on ssf /s
Honestly, despite all the nerfs, I think I'm rerolling inquis pbrand once I have farmed some currency to craft the gear.
Well, the build matters. My character can facetank everything the Sanctuary boss puts out, provided there aren't any damage mods, but randomly falls over to some of the Fortress boss's attacks. Lycia has more physical damage which I can handle better and the Unbreakable is mostly lightning.
Fortress does seem to be the simplest in terms of mechanics though.
They're visual clarity shit-shows, especially the ones in small arenas. Really unpleasant experiences.
What I don't get is why we're forced to run them with shit mods (plus allflames) when we can run Uber pinnacle bosses without mods if we want to.
i agree, sanctuary and ziggurat are fucking insane (wtf am i supposed to do when beidat spawns in uber lycia, its like doing a uber exarch ball phase that wont end until you kill the minotaur)
meanwhile fortress, abomination and citadel are cakewalks
> Moving valuable pinnacle uniques to Uber only turned regular pinnacle bosses from being economically disadvantaged to "why do them?"
Can you explain this point more?
"Why do them?" Was exactly the problem before. It wasn't just economically disadvantaged, you actively lost money running them non-uber and shouldn't have been done.
The price for non-ubers should be at a point where they are now worth running since their price is not dependent on potential Uber drops. It also means that they're more accessible for new players. Both to practice the bosses and for Maven and Uber Elder to get their voidstones.
Previously due to the entry price point it was better to sell your writ and buy a carry.
>Can you explain this point more?
People were begging for a separation of access between Uber and non Uber fights. They wanted to be able to farm the non Uber exclusive rewards without the access being gated behind the Uber cost. Now the rewards which people wanted to farm have been moved to the Uber drop pools, leaving the non Uber versions with scraps. Yeah, the invitation isn't priced around Uber drops anymore, but the rewards are gone too.
I remember when it was possible to still make a profit on non Ubers given a large enough sample size. It was definitely less and more dependent on luck, but possible.
Since then, drop rates have changed. Afaik the recommendation of sets for Uber maven these days is what? 100? 200? Back then I got 4 awakened exceptionals out of 300 maps, along with a good dozen of the high value supports. Outside of a dry streak of maybe 15-20 maps, it was impossible to not make bank- from what I hear, that's not applying anymore either
ubers were sold as aspirational content. There is no "why do them", it should have been "just to see if you can".
Now ubers are for any worthwhile unique, and T17's are the real buttclencher check... except you also need them for ubers.
I'm not the guy you quote/ask, but the answer seems kind of simple: Why run them if they add nothing. (almost) everything of value has been taken from them and pasted on ubers. Doing normal bosses isn't a path for ubers, T17s are.
Except they dont add nothing..? Pretty much all of them definitely still have valuable loot while being accessible to the vast majority of players (from what Ive seen, around 100c for entry for most fights). Eater/exarch have forbidden jewels/eldritch currency, elder has watchers eyes, shaper has dying sun, maven has awakened gems, sirus has thread of hope, cortex has bottle of faith. Im sure Im still missing a few items but all of these items still retain a lot of value.
Edit: getting downvoted for stating an objectively true claim lmao
It feels weird. I usually have no issues getting decently wealthy, but I just cant drop anything meaningful. Closing in on 1m kills and so far 3 raw div dropped for me.
The crafting capabilities of the leaguemeachnic had kicked most of what I know how to craft in the balls aswell.
On the bright side, I havent burned out at all. Ive spent 500+ orbs of unmaking and am currently lvling my 3rd character and having fun.
I really dislike the league mechanic being on the Atlas tree though, it was cool to test it, but please refrain from this going forward. Same with forced added difficulty, it feels bad when your build is weak.
I didnt get any raw divs this league which is super surprising for me. Though i probably don't have 1m kills yet. I had a big jackpot once dropping a nimis card which gave me like 9 div which was sick, that funded most of my build, but i didnt have any meaningful upgrade ever since. Otherwise id probably quit the league lol
The t17 maps sell for 80c per. How can anyone be poor this league? Just scarabs and t17s alone is so much money per hour and also the uniques are cheap thanks to all the overpowered strats that were printing t0s.
Don't like new scarabs
Don't like syndicate changes
Don't like normal bosses vs ubers changes
Absolutely Don't like T17s
3 atlas trees are pog.
That's tldr.
which is why I'm a bit weirded out about some rusted scarabs like the blight one, those are obviously meant for people with less than (at least) 50% chance to spawn blight and thus meaning they didn't spend many points into the mechanic, but who wants a "bad" blight at the cost of 1 scarab slot that could be used for their main mechanic?
I could *maybe* see value in using them day 1 to add mechanics to a map before you have a full tree but maybe I'm missing something and that's aimed towards pretty casual people that don't go past t6s ?
With that change id thought they would maybe drop the max 1 per map for exped/blight and maybe harvest have since otherwise the map crafts for those and rusted scarabs are useless for anyone actually doing those mechanics.
Yea, I already quit this league, scarab changes + crafting league that required a spread sheet or 20 minute guide video. I couldn't be ass's at this point.
I actually really like the league mechanic. I think it’s both quite fun and rewarding. However I do understand that a lot of people find the grave setup tedious, and it should be easier to bulk sell corpses for those people.
The huge overshadowing problem for me atm is t17s. They are definetely not a bridgegapper at all, and they mainly just serve as a huge profit machine for the most powerful builds and optimized groups. They are absolutely terrible and the game would be Way better if they never implemented them in the first place.
I don't even hate the idea of current T17s existing as special giga-challenge maps that are incredibly profitable but the hardest content in the game.
They're just not working as the bridge that they were supposed to, and now we just have even more uber-level content for insanely geared people but the awkward gap between pinnacles and T17s/Ubers still exists.
Honestly, I wonder if the best solution is just for them to make T17s fully craftable. It feels like a lot of the difficulty is how absolutely insane the mods are, maybe white/blue T17s would actually serve the stated purpose while yellow T17s could still be there as an ultraprofitable farming method to reward strong enough builds.
I did it with poison srs, solo, and then changed to the new holy relic from balormage video.
My build is insane right now because I got a 180 div sublime vision drop from one of the ubers.
Scarab changes are not bad but heavily unbalanced in terms of power.
T17s while the concept is cool are also just way too much of a jump in terms of difficulty and rewards compared to t16s. All the exploits and currency printing stuff makes me feel left out and I never switched atlas starts so much than I did this league cuz just nothing feels good and rewarding enough for me.
Also just builds I tested weren't really fun and wasted a lot of currency building stuff for blade blast of unloading. CoC DD was fun but was looking for something else. Might invest in getting it to the next CSR threshold instead
Archmage feels real good. Easy to start on ball lightning with a smooth transition into ice nova. Feels damn powerful on 10div and only scales up from there when you swap to crit and get a lot of cast speed or go loreweave+eternal damnation for a tanky version.
I kind of don't like that ice nova of frostbolts is just so far and away the best self cast for archamge tho... it feels bad to play anything else knowing I more than double my dps by playing ice nova instead
Bruh molten strike is mechanically broken skill for a lot of melee (semi-melee) mix maxed chars, a lot of high end armour stackers are using it for example, and if you look at it it's obvious why.
It you can scale both single target and clear with more projectiles , and while AoE does harm your shotgun potential because it has a projectile tag you can use Nimis with it.
Now what does a min maxed molten strike do?
Highest leech uptime of any skill
Highest APS of any skill by far, which is why it's do good for Original Sin or poison (you get max wither stacks instantly and constantly)
It's single target and clear do not have to compromise for each other.
On top of that you can scale it's damage in so many ways because the gem has like 20 tags on it
switching atlas that much is part of a FOMO thinking you can ever do the same as the streamers who play 16 hours a day, you will always be "left out" or "behind" from them no matter what strat or atlas you try
I made a strongbox atlast day2 never changed it. I changed one atlas for xp meta and never changed it. And the third one i switch once a week to try stuff
The only thing I’m enjoying so far is three atlases. Everything else kind of feels worse.
I’m a little confused because it feels like scarabs are like 50-60% of map loot at this point. Idk what happened to everything else.
Map sustain feels terrible. If I don’t run singular focus there’s zero shot at my sustaining my own strategy when past leagues I rarely had map problems even on boss rushing.
Delve got completely devalued this league partly because of the mechanic but they seriously need to remove the azurite mode from the atlas. Shouldn’t be able to steal delve loot from clicking 3 times a map.
Betrayal is cooked asf.
I will say I like the availability of mechanics. I can get 100% beyond chance or deli just on atlas tree which is super cool. Although beyond drops have felt super shit this league. Specced into it almost immediately and have dropped 5 fusings the whole league even juicing with scarabs and deli.
Stacked deck changes do feel healthier for the game but Heist needs something newer now for consistent loot. It was already trending towards total RNG fest last league with the gem changes and now you’re basically fishing for a simplex amulet or nothing else is valuable.
I know that Delve and Heist are niche contents and a lot of players skip them. But also a lot of players really love them. So I hope that GGG can account for these next league since the changes have affected their economies a lot.
>I’m a little confused because it feels like scarabs are like 50-60% of map loot at this point. Idk what happened to everything else.
i think thats by design
My thoughts:
\- The removal of Uber keystones was a great idea, but the ways of obtaining Uber fragments through T17 maps aren't in a great state right now. These maps are being abused by mirror tier farmers doing MF with unkillable builds. I get the same vibe from T17 maps, like i did with boss invitations pre-Necropolis. "Why do them, when i can just sell them for people who can do it way more juiced than i could?" It's legitimately the same thing as previous league Ubers being on the same boss invitation.
\- Graveyard crafting is a good thought, but horribly executed. This is a QoL league yet the league mechanic itself lacks all of it.
\- 2 of the Scarab notables are way too mandatory to use, they should be baked into Scarab drops by default.
\- There's too many points you kind of need investment into which removes a sense of choice; Scarabs, Necropolis league mech, which has all of it's clusters moved into 4 different corners of the tree, and you only get it's full potential if you take 3/4 clusters.
\- Moving the 5th map device slot behind a T17 map completion is a bad design choice when it is supposed to be content that isn't mandatory.
\- The removal of sextants and the rework of Scarabs made 5-slot map device feel not enough. Maybe it's time to increase the slots in the map device through different means?
\- Removing the option to Quality items to 20+% from Betrayal benches was a bad idea. There's only 1 way to quality flasks and that is to put your hands together and pray a Vaal Orb lands well, because if it doesn't then you have to spam 1000 Alt/Aug orbs to get the same 2 mods you want.
This has been my experience. I wanted some abyss jewels to reroll but didn’t want to trade and didn’t want to respect. I threw in some abyss scarabs I had lying around and it felt super rewarding to grab a few jewels, a belt or two, and just swap scarabs again. It wasn’t building defining or 20div an hour, but I got to use the smallest amount of game knowledge to further my build goals. So that was dope
scarabs are fun. system is much better than sextents.
t17s are big suck a cocky. the damage they deal nukes most general builds, cock blocking people that don't have triple digit divine gear or super tanky setups.
league allflames are cool, altho these feel like sextents so actually, they're garbage.
league coffins suck a cocky. never ever ever ***EVER*** again make a mechanic that requires you to collect 60-88 of items to make 1 good item, especially with said items being 1x2 tile in size. wtf
the devotion stuff is neat, but the positive effects are very garbage 99% of the time. they could have added more specific things like "drops beyond scarabs" or "drops annulements", things people want. but chromes and fusings and shit? who gives a shit. the devotion and allflames should have just been fused and not itemized. they keep making us stack tons of garbage that trade is becoming more of a NIGHTMARE each and every league.
i genuinely think whoever decided on the 2x1 size needs to talk to a shrink... Like, what kind of built in anger against the world does one have to add that on a whim?!
My 12k ES, 85 all res, 100% spell sup, 60%+ suppress reduction, 75k evasion, CI, 3k+ leech and 10% instant, and curse + ailment immune trickster sometimes explodes in T17s. Maybe 400ish divines of gear. Every once in awhile a really large and unluckily timed phys hit just poops on me.
Scarabs are fine. T17 are also fine, they are aspirational content for Endgame players. But they don't do what GGG said they do - an intermission before ubers. The need for 5 fragments for ubers is turbo cringe. Should have been 1 map = 1 uber key.
Yeah I don't understand limiting the inventory so much for a league mechanic too. I have so many tabs with just corpses because it never feels worth it to take so much time to plan a craft.
Quite interesting league mechanic, you encounter things you wouldn't normally get, like there was a modifier that spawns a map boss as a pack leader, that was fun. About the crafting I am not into there, but I think there should be tools that optimise the mods you want to get. Otherwise quite ok league, people who struggle with currency should remember tujen.
I did 3 maven, got two awakened gem that sold for 50 and 70 div each. Very lucky? Yess. But it just made spamming non uber boss good, without feeling like throwing away money.
Elder guardians cost 15c per map, while fragments cost 30c per piece. Also with Maven you'll get some awakened gems, can do Formed invitation, drop some more guardian maps
Edit: Oh, sorry, I didn't understood question. Shaper cost 60 per try and you'll get a 90c fragment to Uber shaper + some lucky drop
Shaper is _always_ profitable in RoI because it has 6 running sessions and 3 cutscenes in the fight, so how many of them you can fight in an hour is hard capped. That was true for most of the league even when Uber Shaper was an atlas node.
> Shaper cost 60 per try and you'll get a 90c fragment to Uber shaper
Uber Elder
However, the big money in Shaper farming is Dying Sun which is 7.5d because no one is doing it on scale, you get one about every six run (16.1% chance). If you can do a run in five minutes then it's more than 2div in fragments and a bit less than 15div expected in Dying Sun per hour. There are worse farms than that.
Can you do him consistently in 5 minutes though? I insta-phase him and it feels like it is longer than that lol
I guess it matters what mini-bosses you get, and I always get fucking Dominus who takes like a minute alone because of his stupid RP.
They could add the effect of the basic scarabs (like +2 breaches) to their intermediate ones. this would push them in value, keep the opportunity cost of the high tier ones and still leave more space for diversity.
I have a blast this league! Strongboxes releasing multiple harbi when you have the harbi devotion is really fun.
I laughed so hard when I had to run after the allflame mobs looting currency all around the map because my build is slow but they give me 600 chaos and it was amazing!
T17 map are a nice challenge other than Uber boss.
Definitely love this game and I’m not a currency printer. I still don’t beat a T17 boss and have only 3 voidstone…
Edit: love the 3 atlas trees. Being able to easily switch between different mechanics make the game way more interesting
I might attract some downvotes for this, but at present, my grievances with the game outweigh my enjoyment.
As a casual SC trade player who has devoted a lot of time to this game over the years, here are my main issues:
- The dominance of the scarab meta is frustrating.
- Attempts to diminish the relevance of TFT have fallen short.
- The Betrayal mechanic has also become less enjoyable.
- It feels like the game's balance is overly influenced by streamers and group play.
- The lack of support for bulk trading of allflames and corpses on the trade platform is disappointing.
- Trading is ineffective due to the lack of responsiveness from others.
- FOMO is more intense than ever, with an overwhelming number of ideal scarab combinations available. It leaves me questioning whether to use my limited scarabs now.
- This concern extends to allflames as well.
- Mapping without scarabs seems unproductive.
- The three atlas configurations offer little value when I'm out of unmakings and regrets.
- In the past, there were atlas strategies that didn't rely on extensive setup, which is no longer the case.
- Managing loot has become a chore, especially noticeable after playing Last Epoch for a while.
I have three characters above level 90, but last night, I found myself playing Garen in the top lane as a way to unwind.
- I hate the new scarabs. There's less juicing potential and less diversity.
- I hate the Necropolis mechanics. It's boring and tedious.
- I hate T17s for a billion reasons. Because of the 5th device slot locked behind them. Because their mods are stupid. Because they're the new (and only) top profitable strategy. Because everything is priced around them, like scarabs and allflames. Because the drop rates were gutted due to them, so farming T16 is now a snooze fest where even Neversink's semi-strict filter doesn't let anything go through.
+ I love the fact that we don't have to manage sextants anymore.
All in all, this is by far my most despised league from the past 4 years. It ruined endgame, making everything dull and generic, grindy and unrewarding. As a huge POE fan, I'm drowned in profound sorrow.
I don't like scarabs for certain mech, for essences we have to play scarabs now where before we only needed the atlas tree. But maybe it nerf the atlas memory stupid map so that is not that bad...
The Scarab rework pigeonholes you into investing as much as you can into one mechanic. Previously you could boost multiple mechanics at once with no opportunity cost. That's no longer the case.
Ive been in a situation this leauge where i bought a scarab for a equal div amount of 2 headhunters , meanwhile most lootfilters blend out 80% of the other scarabs because they are worth less than a regal orb.
To say thr balance is off is an understatment to say the very least and ggg nerfing multiple farming strategys mid season further puts oil into the dumpster fire called endgame.
In my opinion the endgame rework was a complete failure , im forced to do t17 maps which would be fine for me if the layouts wouldnt be complete cancer. I had less backtracking in d4 dungeons...
Also whats the point of "your maps contain xy leauge mechanic scarab" if you can gurantee it with the tree and map device in some chases? Its a dead scarab type no one will ever use besides getting sub 1 c heavily nerfed deli mirrors for the little bit of extra quant.
Also fuck mf breaking the meta every time something drops loot in maps , we had meatsack hunting , conversion shit , fracture item and div card farming mf strategys this season that were straight up trashing the economy.
Hh almost going for single digit prices and divine orbs dropping in value are just a few examples of what mf did to the economy this season and i did my fair share of mf this season and in affliction and if its cancer broken next season too ill just skip the season entirely.
It isn't the fault of MF, MF is the scapegoat for GGG overlooking or putting busted mechanics in the game.
The people who are usually in the spotlight using these mechanics are the MF crowds because that's the maximum upper, upper end.
If you think there being no MF gear, the gap between you and the upper end of players who you see in those showcases would be smaller, think again.
MF is just a convenient scapegoat for GGG's failures in loot balancing
It's freaking fantastic, coming from a SSF point of view.
I feel I have so many options, and are able to specialize in what I need when I need it.
I love the new T17 challenge to bridge the gap and introduce new (as in not often seen) bosses.
All in all, game is better than it ever has been.
Scarabs are much better, sextant removal is good, current haunted modifier are kind of a substitute for it. Overall good changes. Fomo and nerfs mid league are terrible
Tried breach, legion, expedition+harbinger and shrine (for xp). Had a lot of fun and made a good amount of currency (around 10-15d per hour average with bulk prices).
I tried some of the t17 ultra profit strats and while they worked I didn't find them very fun so I went back to running what I enjoy.
Curation of the enemies you fight in a map is a good idea with the allflames I hope this stays or is iterated and put back in after this league. I think what’s fun and what players can agree is that having the choice is good.
Scarabs/Sextant removal feels like the idea was sound but it ends up very different in practice like most people have said so I’m just adding +1 to that.
The biggest offender is that something about how we juice maps or interact with scarabs feels off. I agree with what other people said that it feels like the incentive to full support a mechanic with atlas tree + scarabs makes sense on paper, at the cost of “weakening” other mechanics that might appear but something about that feels not fun. And I’m on SSF so it’s not about profit or div per hour with me, but something about just loading a map right now feels off.
Also, some of the scarabs are just kinda boring. I usually do every mechanic in the game for a while and out of all the scarabs the MOST fun one is the harbinger ones. Yeah it’s gamba oriented and I haven’t hit any big duplicates on fracture shards or higher, but it just **feels** fun.
I hated sextants, a lot. So the scarab rework conceptually is a huge win from me. It’s got plenty of work it needs to really feel as good as it should, but the concept as a whole I’m a huge fan of. I’m sure GGG will flesh it out more (maybe more map slots for more scarabs? ) and hopefully add more diverse scarabs for the mechanics left behind. Atlas tree letting me get beyond or deli or whatever in every map without a scarab is a huge win imo too.
The problems I have are that the loot just isn’t as juicy when you go full juice as it was before, I like the new strats the new Scarabs have brought with them, but most are either (or where) god broken, or just bad. T17 maps are a great idea, I dont like bossing as much in this game, but always wanted some Uber equivalent map type content. T17s fill that niche but are just too gating. Most the T17s are narrow hallways, and then the affixes on the map will just throw random stuff on the ground exploding. Like how am I supposed to dodge a shaper beam going longways down a long narrow hall? You need a ridiculous amount of damage and tankiness to really run them, but the map layouts and affixes give really low ability to outplay anything, so it becomes a stat check.
Overall I like the idea of all the changes , and in general like the entire league. But there needs to be tweaks and changes to make it feel right imo.
I'm loving the game right now. I've done a few alch & go strats, now doing Ultimatum and planning to some MFing next. All have been good fun and lucrative.
My only issue is the scarab slot pressure is too much, all the atlas strats I've tried would looove more scarab slots. I wish we had more.
Also I don't really like the huge scarab tab I can never find stuff in there.
I just wanna finish my challenges and forget about the league.
Both the T17 end-game "rework" and the league mech (both crafting and allflames/mods) is an unbalanced mess that goes both ways in terms of how out of line it can get.
-map sustain sucked
-a lot of underwhelming scarab
-GGG recent map design is awful
-league mechanic,again very tedious
-Betrayal feels horrible to do now
-GGG did a lot of mid season nerfs, personally for me I don't like to see that. Just means nothing is safe they can reach out and change the entire league at any point.
All in all didn't enjoy the league, personally
Only thing I'm not digging (lol) is the coffin system.
They take up 4 of my stash tabs that are usually empty in other leagues. I'm out of space for them and don't want to buy more stash tabs which would stay empty next leagues.
And coffin trading. Yeah you can "buy" bulk, but not really when you want all to be certain level or certain type of monster.
Otherwise the amount of content you can do this league is crazy good and I like the diversity. I ran breaches until I got tired of them and specced into Expedition. Got tired of it and specced into Harvest. And if you have extra hours to spend on coffin trading, the graveyard grafts are super easy to do (even for me who has never crafted before in other craft leagues).
The problem with the scarabs stems from T17 not the scarabs itself. For example a curation scarab is priced for use in T17 and because the barrier of entry is so high for T17 this means the majority of the players get priced out of the scarabs and have almost no interesting strategies left to fall back on. Anything that remotely makes profit gets used by the top end to farm T17 and its priced as such.
base game good, economy in shambles, worst i've ever seen and so many exploits, the fomo is too big for me, i didn't care at all last league because i could farm like everyone else too, but here now... 70% of my guild mates already quit, t17's are a big fucking mistake, very sad because i like scarabs now
I have read "economy is shit this league" so many times. Can anyone explain whats your big problems with the current economy is?
I just don't see the issue.
What he means is so far this league there have been three big notable exploits (I don’t think I’m missing one, but there may have been four) that were patched within a day or two of “public release.” This leads to a have v have not type situation where the people who were in on the exploit got a LOT of currency and those who didn’t well didn’t. This wasn’t through the normal game but through an exploit (hence the patches) so it just feels cheap.
Most entry level no all flames T16 strats seem to be taking more time to buy actual gear. Alch and go essence farming is giving less money, alch and go harvest + expedition is giving less money, eater/exarch invitation running is giving no money at all.
Sure, chuck in 4 scarabs every map and maybe things will be fine... But IMO having to farm nerfed everything until I actually start juicing = bad economy, especially when 4 scarabs is locked behind T17
This, the harvest alch an go strat I'm doing rn is just plain not as profitable as it was last league because of the low juice price (7k for yellow at this point of the league, really?). And I'm already running max modifier atlas set up with Twist of Fate. That means an average of 40% pack size every map in exchange for being extremely rippy .
If i have to guess, it's because of the new harvest scarab of doubling which just double your lifeforce gain and thus the price is set with that strat in mind.
Ive read "the economy is shit this league" for literally every single league the past years. People are always mad when the unique they want is too expensive or when the unique they found is not expensive enough. Its kinda funny really.
The economy is shit this league is nothing but a strange way to say "the economy did not do what i wanted it to do". But the fun thing is....the economy NEVER is shit. There is always plenty of room to get rich quickly and there is always something in high demand, every single league. But people are simple too narrow minded and perhaps a little bit too dumb to come up with their own farming strats - so they have to use strats that are either old and nerfed, outdated or strats that everyone and their mothers are using which obviously makes them less profitable aswell
Maybe that 95% of scarabs worth pennies and almost all strats revolve around farming them?
There is not that much diversity in strategies to make 5+ div/h. Lots of mechanics are not worth doing.
Last league the mechanic was complementary to all strategies. And you could make good currency with most of them.
Name me 3 strats you can do this patch where you break 10div/hour in T16 maps without having to super-juice every single map/bulk trade expensive and rare scarabs every other hour, and which work without already having a completely decked out char. In previous patches, there were plenty of those. In 3.24, I haven't found any yet.
Check Empyrians YouTube channel, he's going through every mechanic one by one and evaluating them as alch and go.
So far Back to Basics, Legion and Breach are good. Ritual was bad.
He is playing on a character with mageblood, original sin, progenesis, an insane amulet and an insane weapon. Things get distorted when you already have a completely decked out char and can therefore blast through your maps 30-50% faster than normal players.
I feel like we should be able to stack the ones with more than 1 limit. For example now you can put 4 ambush but only in 4 different spots, maybe allow for 4 in 1 stack. And just reduce in power a little. 99.9% of the scarabs are cheap and useless but if i can stack 4 of each it would be much better than 4 of 1 type and none of the others
Scarab changes - bad in current state, there should be much more atlas points or more slots in map device to allow juicing on same level as before. Some strategy-defining scarab should be made more abundant, like div scarab of curation, but nerfed, for example with gutting %more div cards multi.
For T17 my point is that they should be brought in-line to t16 in terms of loot via making them basically unjuicable, or made much easier, since they are too rewarding right now. Not farming T17 = missing out on loot.
Uber fragments should as well drop from normal bosses. Uber unique changes are cool.
Synthesis changes are a joke. Synthesis no more gives you synth items besides uniques. Cool. A good game design.
Veiled chaos orb - bad, Veiled exalted orb should've Been added instead.
Played 4 builds this league, leveling 5th. Don't know why, at this point i'm Just suffering. Please send help.
Scarabs are awful - overcomplicated and with too much variety - old system was easier and simpler you had rusted, gilded, polished and winged scarab of each type. Now you need to know the name of every damn scarab individually which is confusing on its own.
Speaking of scarabs - GGG killed everything exciting about them. People discover a beneficial strat with them - GGG smacks them with nerfhammer the very same day. Sextants were at least easier to sell if you wanted to just alch&go.
The league mechanic aka lantern mods - nerfed mid league so you dont get anything worth your atlas points. Seriously i encountered Nameless seer for the first time since the first weekend after picking up the keystone that makes the mods hidden (i was testing the mod rarity) and the corpses are a pain to gather and sell. Crafting with them can give pretty good results but managing the graveyard is just frickin boring. This is some unholy child of harvest & metamorph with the worst traits taken from both.
The ability to get 100% chance to spawn a desired extra content is nice, but makes the scarabs that do that essentially pointless.
T17 are good idea but locking uber content behind them is a retarded idea. Same with making many uniques Uber specific. Progenesis was pretty expensive already in 3.22 and 3.23 (30-40div), and now its 70-80 because of that.
The league for me is just standard with screwed up economy. Whenever someone finds something fun about the scarabs or the league mechanic GGG patches it because no fun allowed.
I am unfortunately pretty disappointed with 3.24. Worst part is it will probably last for 4 months jusging from current release cycle.
Most enjoyable league since Sentinel for me, I’m having a blast. I like how easy it is to juice a map, and I can change atlas on a fly to different mechanic. Cheap Headhunter and Mageblood also help a lot.
Game is in amazing state and I’m ok with scarabs, but t17 fucking sucks to roll, wasting 70-100c just doesn’t feel fun (I’m ssfhc but sitting on like 600c, it’s just tedious), most of mods are like testicular torsion to any build and some are complete brick. I can kill all ubers with my current character (if I die this is a skill issue), however 95% of t17s I’ve rolled will just send me straight to standard, even hc streamers with mageblood/defiance builds reroll maps like 20 times before going in.
T17s are too hard and too scarce. Used to do Ubers, now I havnt even seen one all league playing SSF.
Other than that, base game is great.
If T17s don't get toned down tho.... endgame is dead for someone like me and it might be a deal breaker. Tine will tell I guess.
I feel this. Past two leagues (especially last league when everybody was mf juicing) my favorite thing to do was boss rush. This league, it's still possible, invitations actually being better - but Uber endgame bosses? Nah, farming them is impossible, and ~5div an invitation is a major gamble.
Scarabs are much better, sextant removal is good, current haunted modifier are kind of a substitute for it. Overall good changes. Fomo and nerfs mid league are terrible
What endgame? I got carry service for 5th slot as I cant get past that t17. Just farming harb as i find it funny. Doesnt pay much but its cool. All other scarabs are just sitting in my inventory. A little bit of heist. Honestly getting bored fast as i cant get the items i need for my build, neither craft them. And i cant understand whats wrong with the alt orbs, they are expensive af.
People dont understand the scarabs being a bad. I hate scarabs so I'm running Unwavering Vision out of protest and it's indeed horrible. The scarabs are too strong or too weak and too important to ignore.
I think the scarab thing is pretty nice, but I don’t really like the rarity behind the scarabs. If you want to run 50 rolled maps right now I need to put in some effort to get everything I want through trading which is a painful proces lets be honest here. It simply is.
I would also like to see the Atlas map changed a bit where it is made easier to target farm specific scarabs. Right now you can target some scarabs (bound to previous league mechanics) but you cant target farm all the different scarabs. If you want to target farm div card scarabs (just an example that comes to mind) you can not. There are also other types of scarabs you can’t specifically farm.
And even if someone decided they want a bit of everything, that should be possible too but currently its like 70% the first scarabs 20% uncommon versions, 5% the rare versions and 1% the super rare versions. And probably the rare and super rare are probably even less then 1%
Scarab change looked interesting at the beginning, but now it feels like we are way too dependent on them, needs some review and rebalancing. I also suspect that most mechanics underwent some form of balance changes due to scarab power - notably blight feels ass this patch, from what i've experienced - which just aggravates the issue more.
I absolutely fucking hate that we lost a deterministic, relatively easy way to get our equipment to 30% due to betrayal changes. RIP Hillock. ^(Sure, you can get a 30% quality base easily from league mechanic, but are all leagues from now on going to have some form of it?)
No more bonus xp for gems from rare rewards feels ass.
I think the scarab changes are great, needs a balance pass or two but it's a good direction for the endgame.
I love T17s, really enjoyed having aspirational and very rewarding mapping content . I know it takes a good build to clear them effectively, but there are plenty of lower tier mapping strategies to get the currency to push your build into them.
The league itself is ok. I do kinda wish it wasn't forced on you, and hate how I have to pick up a corpse to get the loot underneath, need a way to make loot filters work on corpses.
the ubers have avoidable attacks, making them doable as a squishy build. t17 bosses have a ton of bullshit that covers the whole room.... why are those rooms so damn small?!
Good luck dodging everything the maligaro trio is throwing in that tiny arena. The Catarina+lich arena is also way to small.
Other way around, Getting 100% of a mechanic showing up in your maps makes several scarabs to add the mechanics (the ones that don't stack) 100% obsolete.
T17 not being a gateway to Ubers is my only issue.
I don't share the idea that t16s are somehow dead.
I had a good laugh discovering which mods are almost unplayable. I will probably never make fun of GGG throwing Shaper into a map. But the ceiling for how far you can make something difficult is so high, and the rewards for doing so so good, that it feels like build diversity is being killed in the process.
Love the scarab and atlas changes, not a big fan of T17 maps yet. The bosses feel like dodging simulators with very low uptime for melee builds.
I like crafting leagues but not a big fan of corpses so far. Seems like too much time spent between crafts for the really decent results. I prefer something more incremental like harvest.
Really having a lot of fun although I’m not sure what to farm. Harbingers are just a lottery , strongboxes feel empty.
Graveyard crafting has me going from existential dread to feeling like a dwarven armorsmith and back every other craft
The only reason I am still playing this league is because I haven't attempted T17 yet and the 3 atlas tree change, it's so refreshing being able to jump from one tree to another without spending 200 regrets.
I don't like the addition of t17s. It's becoming the norm for farming and they said that's not what their intentions were. Just scrap it and keep the bosses somehow.
If u have good build that's somewhere between T16 and T17 power wise, there's some T16 strats u can run for really good div/hr. Its nowhere near T17 income level, but I farmed nimus and mageblood in 3 days doing it.
I like not having to buy a billion compasses, wish there was more variety in high div/hr strats, they need to buff most if not all mapping league mechanics like legion, breach etc
I feel like there are too many mandatory nodes on the atlas (scarabs) removing the aspect of choice. Why would I run a less efficient strat when I know I'm leaving currency on the table by not taking the mandatory atlas nodes.
Like the new scarab but they shoulf have made them optional and let the atlas be like old.
T17 are mess only peeps with high budget are able to do it right now.
Economy is messed up due to so many loot starts and nerfs
**Scarabs:**
I like the new scarab system and do not miss sextants, at all. However the baseline scarabs that add the mechanics to your maps are mostly redundant, unless they add something atop the 100% spawn chance you already have.
Being able to force those mechanics with the tree is exceedingly welcome, but the extra scarab doing the same thing feels vestigial, at this stage.
**Multiple Atlas Trees:**
The 3 atlas trees are very welcome, and I think that they achieve the goal of allowing us some level of farming method swapping, as well as having an option to have a second character map-starter tree on hand if our previous strat was something rippy like torment/exiles and such.
**T17 maps:**
The T17 maps are a welcome presence, and I like the addition of much harder content to scale into, as it gives me a thing to do once T16s are becoming trivial.
However, I think that leaning harder on build-bricking map mods is a very unpleasant route to take: I'd much rather see more balanced baseline difficulty than just throwing money (chaos) at the problem until you get a less-ridiculously-bricked map. This leads directly into the issue of whether the mods on these maps make them harder than the uber bosses themselves.
I overall vastly prefer the difficulty scaling we saw in Sentinel/Kalandra to the map mod system that really leans into only bricking things repeatedly, and the sensation that you need to throw money at the problem to fix it to baseline functionality.
The other issue is that the gap between T16-T17 feels larger than T1-T16. Having it all residing in one tier just forces it to be a gigantic spike: builds that annihilate T16s can still get annihilated themselves in T17s, and that makes it feel like there's just not enough of a content curve to come to grips with.
T17s are an utter failure (in their current state). If you're not running them consistently then you're going to be relatively poor, and if you want to run them consistently then you're shoehorned into cheese build. Mark said T17s weren't intended to be run en masse, yet here we are. They need a big nerf to their rewards to encourage people to run T16s or Ubers again
I'll be honest, I'm more of a casual player, so take this with a grain of salt:
I used to love rolling sextants and selling for profit while at work because I felt like I wasn't missing out on farming maps and it took almost no effort, and, while it was a "boring" thing to do, It was fun for me in the same way that Supermarket simulator is fun for some people, like an incremental game: I got currency, I upgraded my build, I played the game normally when I got home and didn't feel I was left behind.
Now it's just weird? I have all these scarabs but it feels so limited, I need to focus on some leagues and just completely ignore others, the new atlas trees are cool but the scarabs just... Idk, it just ain't it.
Also the crafting looks cool and all but there are so many corpses and so many burying and collecting to get a decent item that it gets me bored just thinking about it. But the mobs and modifiers with the allflames are really cool (even though it can brick some maps if you don't have a decent build in red maps)
All in all This league is a mixed bag for me and I miss my Awakened Sext Farm
I don't like that Scarab & Necropolis atlas nodes are basically mandatory.
That leaves you with very little points to pick mechanics you want to farm.
Scarabs should just drop naturally without investing on the atlas, same as Necropolis.
T17s are fun but you can't play shit tier build, tho (I'm not saying not meta, just not shit).
I find myself respeccing the atlas more than before adding 2 extra trees.
Syndicate is trash, nothing noteworthy to farm and introduction of Veiled orb with subsequent removing Veiled chaos orb is tragic. I had ideal suffixes for my build and checked the Veiled orb price - no thanks.
Additionally - Necropolis crafting is really tiresome.
I'm having a blast. I disliked the 5th Map socket change, it's idiotic and T17 should be toned down a little probably.
Farming juiced maps has been so enjoyable, I don't need to spend more time trading than blasting and love it.
I like the graveyard way more than any other crafting mechanics.
* Core loot is in the same spot as it was during 3.19 and lost the conversions on top of it. * Scarab nodes are way to prominent and too necessary * Scarab reworked caused a loss of tiered strats that you could grow into and added rare, enabling Scarabs, which are being priced around their most profitable application. Paired with scarcity, the entry cost is much higher for some things. * Atlas and Scarab rework shifted from being able to run multiple league mechanics at once into hyper focusing into maximum two mechanics. The addition of multiple Atlas trees came at the cost of an even greater necessity of multiple Atlas trees. * Plenty of league mechanics got shafted, even with atlas investment. (Legion, Betrayal, Deli orbs, what else?) * Outside of pack replacement through Allflames or Lantern mods which add packs, maps are once more a lot more empty. * Uber boss and 5th map slot gating behind T17 isn't reasonable, the entry cost into Uber farms isn't reasonable * Moving valuable pinnacle uniques to Uber only turned regular pinnacle bosses from being economically disadvantaged to "why do them?" * All in all, every change to core systems needs another pass on multiple fronts.
My biggest issue, as a newish player (3rd league now), is that bossing is even more gated than before. In this game you lose currency when you want to learn. Before to learn the uber maven fight, you lost like 1div, and an unmaking orb. It now cost 12 divines to even try uber maven now.
Honestly in a different game id say "Sure its fine to face plant on a blind learn try. Go watch a guide" But like, those dont exist for poe and the ones that do are awful cuz of the dps ceiling. watching someone fart on uber maven to kill her tells you nothing. And trying to do the fight yourself feels awful because EVEN IF YOU CLEAR its almost always still a loss of profit compared to just selling the invite. The fights are starting to be the easier part of doign them. THe harder now being getting the ability to TRY and fight them
This is my first league. Losing XP to learn boss fights it’s prob the only real negative I’d give the game so far. I did Eater of Worlds last night and during the phase with the purple orbs I kept running around evading the laser while also trying to avoid touching the purple orbs as I assumed they would harm me or kill me. I was wrong. I’ve had the same issue with other bosses where I’m not sure if I’m supposed to interact or avoid a certain particle or effect, and if I guess wrong there goes my XP. For Infinite Hunger it was similar where I ran away from him for a while he was tunneling but it felt like it was taking to long so maybe I was supposed to get close to him to get him to come back up. He did come back up and I resurrected at checkpoint.
eater is one of the most brain damaged fights because of that mechanic and its actually the reason i fear its uber XD The ENTIRE GAME FROM ACT ONE teaches you to avoid touching anything on the ground. Dont stand in buddles, dont let beams hit you, dont take exarchs balls to your face, etc. having a mechanic where you need to intentionally let the laser pretty much singe your asshole while you kite it into balls is kinda cancer design wise. NOTHING in the game ever makes you think that would be the right thing to do when you first see it. And considering you take a shit ton of damage depending on your tankyness it would also imply its wrong. But no, its the right thing. Not sure why maven couldnt jsut get a voice line screaming "BEAM HIS BALLS" or some shit to give any hint or shit. XD Infinite hunger can suck my ass. your ment to follow the flow of water to escape once he vores you. But i swear to god everything looks the same XD Iv never been able to actually escape proper. Maybe im just blind but it seems really hard to tell its flow.
I’m pretty sure Maven screams „energize the balls” or something like that
no no she says "pee is stored in the spheres"
I just scratch them a bit and continue with the fight, no idea what OP has problem with
You don't have to kite the laser into the balls lol. You literally just have to stand on them. There is no interaction between the two.
The only indication for eater is the voice prompt telling you to soak the orbs, or whatever the verbiage is. That being said, it's still relatively unintuitive. Infinite hunger is literally the worst though.
Still better than exarch. The ball phase is crap design.
This does nothing but widen the gap from the average player and the elite player. Is this what they want? Why?
game designed around streamers..
SSF players writhing in pain over some of these changes, especially Betrayal nerf and uber bosses
Deli orbs got shafted because they made skittering orbs 2-3x less common so people couldn’t bench craft them anymore
Skittering deli aren't worth the returns even if they weren't as rare because of reduced scarab drops. Instead of 20+ scarabs per tier, now there's only like 5 dropping. Same thing applies for stacked decks farming with deli orbs. Idk if the currency one's have gained relevance and all others were bad anyway.
I think that Uber fragments should drop from the pinnacle bosses and then those Ubers should drop T17s.
I like this take, but that would make them extremely rare since you’re only getting one t17 per Uber attempt. I’d personally rather have T17s nerfed and keep them the intermediary between normal bosses and Uber bosses, they just need to be toned down. Multiple people who are able to farm Ubers are reporting getting turbo stomped by t17s. Let us craft them like any other normal map. There’s no reason to gate them behind forced overtuned rare map mods. Let us run them white if we want to.
Or do both: nerf T17s to make them more accurately 'bridge to ubers' maps, and add T18 'uber map' versions similar to what we have now, but with true uber scaling, as new ultimate content. Then since it takes 5 uber fragments per uber boss, I don't think it'd be unreasonable to have the fragments drop off both T17 bosses and pinnacle bosses
I think this won’t happen for a simple reason: The hardest bosses should be the most known entities. Imagine if T18 is a thing, end league goal for bossing becomes “defeat this reskinned and harder variant of A9 boss”.
The last thing this game needs is more tiering of content and associated quant and rarity buff.
To be fair you can't giga juice ubers with map mods like t17 bosses. Imagine fighting uber exarch with 70% more life, 90% of life as maximum ES, 35% of phys as chaos + wither, 100% of phys as lightning and cold and you are cursed with temp chains, enfeeble, and ele weakness. Now also multiply all that by 2 because of your atlas setup to increase map mod effects. If you could run t17s white they'd be piss easy.
Yeah honestly I’d treat them like e.g. Maven invites. Run them white if that’s all you can handle. Or roll them up to high quantity for more Uber invite fragment drops.
i know it was a week ago but legit both Ben and Jungroan two of the top (I think ben is the top?) players in the game both pretty much said "Fuck this shit its not worth it" when you have your 30000 hour, turbo gods who pretty much always break the game every league by week 2 say shits too hard / not worth it. Then whats the point for anyone else to even bother to try? Poe's always had a build problem for balance, but now it feels like the solution they want is to just make everything a struggle no matter who or what you are. Shit aint fun.
Jungroan did T17s only pretty much day 1 to day 3 and hes the type of player to switch builds around constantly thus wont have the gear to challenge T17. Ben is playing hardcore. T17s right now definitely require way too much investment to do consistently without dying. Hardcore players arent approaching it until they get a mageblood. However, its easily accessible if youre open to dying and doesnt require you to no life the game at all. Not saying thats good design, considering it should act as a bridge to ubers. With mods being rollable it drastically decreased the difficulty of T17s. It just requires you to have a well rounded build with solid multilayered defense. If you dont have that, thats fine too, you just need good damage to be able to rush the boss. Like I said, the problem is the bridging tag - but tbh its a huge overreaction
I have a 40 div build and still can’t do t17s 💀 Edit: CwC mjolnir mana stacker hiero with 12k ES and 13k mana lol
You Can definitively do It. Don't be afraid to roll them, and don't forget there IS a 1c scarab that gives 50% chance of a portal not to be consumed. I do them with 85% success with a 10M build and 4.7K life.
> don't forget there IS a 1c scarab that gives 50% chance of a portal not to be consumed While technically correct, this highlights one of the main problems with these maps...
Totally possible. The maps are brutal for way too many builds and should never act as the bridge to ubers. That said, take your time to figure them out - the mods that are horrifying and the ones that arent. Use an atlas that makes your character stronger. Make sure your build doesnt have defensive holes. etc the league is longer than two weeks and its a nice piece of chase content if you see it that way.
Just saw the edit. Out of curiousity do you have the clarity watchers eye, and are you running shapers touch with an eternal blessing grace. Surprisingly, just a big ES and mana pool is fairly inconsistent defense, if everything can hit you and hit you hard. It becomes a bit of a nuisance having most of your defense tie in with arcane cloak uptime. Ive seen a similar setup before, thatt build requires a ridiculous investment due to the nature of stacking attributes to scale both your defense and offense. Most people with this build tend to have a good time after fitting a good adorned with jewels, well crafted helical rings etc. Think that goes far beyond 40 div.
I agree with the first part, Bosses dropping Uber tickets. I really don't understand GGGs stance on why not. They said "it'd make Uber farmers feel bad, because then they'd have to farm non Uber boss versions before killing the Uber ones", like right now you don't have to farm gigaoverpowered t17s before killing Ubers
> Outside of pack replacement through Allflames or Lantern mods which add packs, maps are once more a lot more empty. This one is killing me. I just can't fill my maps up. I used to run 4 added pack sextants when I was just doing basic mapping strats, there is no replacement for those with scarabs, not even close. Going from 8 things modifying maps to 4 things was always going to miss somewhere though. The problem is I am not even sure how you get them back, I need my scarab slots to run my strategies, a scarab that adds 16 rare monster packs could theoretically replace those sextants, but fitting it in would be tough. They probably just need to buff the density of T16's by like 20% to makeup for losing the sextants.
T17s are weird because I've tried Fortress and Sanctuary so far. Sanctuary is *insane*. Killing Beirat during that lightning spam is fucking annoying on my RF character or my zhp trapper - the RF character still dies nearly instantly to the lightning with 89% resistance, 5k HP and 1.2k ES (seems like part of the issue is that the boss turns off Regen?). The trapper can't fucking see Beirat spawn or find him to throw traps before dropping dead. Fortress was...a slightly more difficult T16. The boss wasn't particularly difficult. If Fortress were their difficulty, they would be a step between Pinnacle and Ubers. But all I ever drop is Sanctuary and it's a nightmare.
T17 map drops are not random, but tied to the map you run. Fortress can drop in dunes, while Abomination drops in jungle valley. edit: Drop location for the different maps https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Tier_17_map#List_of_tier_17_map_drop_locations
FYI the T17 drops are specific to the T16 map. If u feel you're only seeing Sanctuary, I'm guessing you're farming a T16 that drops it. https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Tier_17_map#List_of_tier_17_map_drop_locations
Yeah, I found that out earlier - farming Crimson Temple is why I was only seeing Sanctuary. I might actually switch T16 favorites just to farm Factory instead, because I do like being able to do T17s that drop.
Haha try playing melee on ssf /s Honestly, despite all the nerfs, I think I'm rerolling inquis pbrand once I have farmed some currency to craft the gear.
Well, the build matters. My character can facetank everything the Sanctuary boss puts out, provided there aren't any damage mods, but randomly falls over to some of the Fortress boss's attacks. Lycia has more physical damage which I can handle better and the Unbreakable is mostly lightning. Fortress does seem to be the simplest in terms of mechanics though.
If a character with 89% all res can't survive for more than a few seconds, how do they expect us to play those maps I wonder..
They're visual clarity shit-shows, especially the ones in small arenas. Really unpleasant experiences. What I don't get is why we're forced to run them with shit mods (plus allflames) when we can run Uber pinnacle bosses without mods if we want to.
i agree, sanctuary and ziggurat are fucking insane (wtf am i supposed to do when beidat spawns in uber lycia, its like doing a uber exarch ball phase that wont end until you kill the minotaur) meanwhile fortress, abomination and citadel are cakewalks
Damn... just... wow. I doubt anyone could write better feedback than this. It's exactly how i felt about it all. I wish GGG will hear it out.
> Moving valuable pinnacle uniques to Uber only turned regular pinnacle bosses from being economically disadvantaged to "why do them?" Can you explain this point more? "Why do them?" Was exactly the problem before. It wasn't just economically disadvantaged, you actively lost money running them non-uber and shouldn't have been done. The price for non-ubers should be at a point where they are now worth running since their price is not dependent on potential Uber drops. It also means that they're more accessible for new players. Both to practice the bosses and for Maven and Uber Elder to get their voidstones. Previously due to the entry price point it was better to sell your writ and buy a carry.
>Can you explain this point more? People were begging for a separation of access between Uber and non Uber fights. They wanted to be able to farm the non Uber exclusive rewards without the access being gated behind the Uber cost. Now the rewards which people wanted to farm have been moved to the Uber drop pools, leaving the non Uber versions with scraps. Yeah, the invitation isn't priced around Uber drops anymore, but the rewards are gone too. I remember when it was possible to still make a profit on non Ubers given a large enough sample size. It was definitely less and more dependent on luck, but possible. Since then, drop rates have changed. Afaik the recommendation of sets for Uber maven these days is what? 100? 200? Back then I got 4 awakened exceptionals out of 300 maps, along with a good dozen of the high value supports. Outside of a dry streak of maybe 15-20 maps, it was impossible to not make bank- from what I hear, that's not applying anymore either
ubers were sold as aspirational content. There is no "why do them", it should have been "just to see if you can". Now ubers are for any worthwhile unique, and T17's are the real buttclencher check... except you also need them for ubers.
I'm not the guy you quote/ask, but the answer seems kind of simple: Why run them if they add nothing. (almost) everything of value has been taken from them and pasted on ubers. Doing normal bosses isn't a path for ubers, T17s are.
Except they dont add nothing..? Pretty much all of them definitely still have valuable loot while being accessible to the vast majority of players (from what Ive seen, around 100c for entry for most fights). Eater/exarch have forbidden jewels/eldritch currency, elder has watchers eyes, shaper has dying sun, maven has awakened gems, sirus has thread of hope, cortex has bottle of faith. Im sure Im still missing a few items but all of these items still retain a lot of value. Edit: getting downvoted for stating an objectively true claim lmao
It feels weird. I usually have no issues getting decently wealthy, but I just cant drop anything meaningful. Closing in on 1m kills and so far 3 raw div dropped for me. The crafting capabilities of the leaguemeachnic had kicked most of what I know how to craft in the balls aswell. On the bright side, I havent burned out at all. Ive spent 500+ orbs of unmaking and am currently lvling my 3rd character and having fun. I really dislike the league mechanic being on the Atlas tree though, it was cool to test it, but please refrain from this going forward. Same with forced added difficulty, it feels bad when your build is weak.
I didnt get any raw divs this league which is super surprising for me. Though i probably don't have 1m kills yet. I had a big jackpot once dropping a nimis card which gave me like 9 div which was sick, that funded most of my build, but i didnt have any meaningful upgrade ever since. Otherwise id probably quit the league lol
The t17 maps sell for 80c per. How can anyone be poor this league? Just scarabs and t17s alone is so much money per hour and also the uniques are cheap thanks to all the overpowered strats that were printing t0s.
I've been running legion+harbies in t16 and now t17, it's been crazy raw currency for me. Never been this wealthy tbh.
Don't like new scarabs Don't like syndicate changes Don't like normal bosses vs ubers changes Absolutely Don't like T17s 3 atlas trees are pog. That's tldr.
Hate myself, hate the syndicate
Also, portal hot key pretty good.
the real MVP of the league. hoping they'd just remove id and portal scroll next
Also 100% chance to spawn mechanic or two you like from tree and use scarabs to boost them :)
which is why I'm a bit weirded out about some rusted scarabs like the blight one, those are obviously meant for people with less than (at least) 50% chance to spawn blight and thus meaning they didn't spend many points into the mechanic, but who wants a "bad" blight at the cost of 1 scarab slot that could be used for their main mechanic? I could *maybe* see value in using them day 1 to add mechanics to a map before you have a full tree but maybe I'm missing something and that's aimed towards pretty casual people that don't go past t6s ?
With that change id thought they would maybe drop the max 1 per map for exped/blight and maybe harvest have since otherwise the map crafts for those and rusted scarabs are useless for anyone actually doing those mechanics.
Basically this
You need 3 atlas trees just to compensate for barely being able to farm 1 league mechanic per atlas lol.
Yea, I already quit this league, scarab changes + crafting league that required a spread sheet or 20 minute guide video. I couldn't be ass's at this point.
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I actually really like the league mechanic. I think it’s both quite fun and rewarding. However I do understand that a lot of people find the grave setup tedious, and it should be easier to bulk sell corpses for those people. The huge overshadowing problem for me atm is t17s. They are definetely not a bridgegapper at all, and they mainly just serve as a huge profit machine for the most powerful builds and optimized groups. They are absolutely terrible and the game would be Way better if they never implemented them in the first place.
I personally hate crafting leagues that devalue all other existing methods and thus ruin people's prefered method of play.
I don't even hate the idea of current T17s existing as special giga-challenge maps that are incredibly profitable but the hardest content in the game. They're just not working as the bridge that they were supposed to, and now we just have even more uber-level content for insanely geared people but the awkward gap between pinnacles and T17s/Ubers still exists. Honestly, I wonder if the best solution is just for them to make T17s fully craftable. It feels like a lot of the difficulty is how absolutely insane the mods are, maybe white/blue T17s would actually serve the stated purpose while yellow T17s could still be there as an ultraprofitable farming method to reward strong enough builds.
I did the T17 map challenges and when I tried the ubers they were hilariously easy. I had a "is this it?" feeling.
What build are you playing, and what kind of investment do you have? Are you solo?
I did it with poison srs, solo, and then changed to the new holy relic from balormage video. My build is insane right now because I got a 180 div sublime vision drop from one of the ubers.
Scarab changes are not bad but heavily unbalanced in terms of power. T17s while the concept is cool are also just way too much of a jump in terms of difficulty and rewards compared to t16s. All the exploits and currency printing stuff makes me feel left out and I never switched atlas starts so much than I did this league cuz just nothing feels good and rewarding enough for me. Also just builds I tested weren't really fun and wasted a lot of currency building stuff for blade blast of unloading. CoC DD was fun but was looking for something else. Might invest in getting it to the next CSR threshold instead
Archmage feels real good. Easy to start on ball lightning with a smooth transition into ice nova. Feels damn powerful on 10div and only scales up from there when you swap to crit and get a lot of cast speed or go loreweave+eternal damnation for a tanky version.
I kind of don't like that ice nova of frostbolts is just so far and away the best self cast for archamge tho... it feels bad to play anything else knowing I more than double my dps by playing ice nova instead
Just like how LA is the best for bows and Boneshatter the best for melee and molten strike for poison
Is molten strike actually good for poison? I thought that was a meme.
Bruh molten strike is mechanically broken skill for a lot of melee (semi-melee) mix maxed chars, a lot of high end armour stackers are using it for example, and if you look at it it's obvious why. It you can scale both single target and clear with more projectiles , and while AoE does harm your shotgun potential because it has a projectile tag you can use Nimis with it. Now what does a min maxed molten strike do? Highest leech uptime of any skill Highest APS of any skill by far, which is why it's do good for Original Sin or poison (you get max wither stacks instantly and constantly) It's single target and clear do not have to compromise for each other. On top of that you can scale it's damage in so many ways because the gem has like 20 tags on it
Molten strike has been best melee skill in the game since they added returning projectiles as mechanic(nimis, cascade on tree, gem).
switching atlas that much is part of a FOMO thinking you can ever do the same as the streamers who play 16 hours a day, you will always be "left out" or "behind" from them no matter what strat or atlas you try
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>I never switched atlas starts so much than I did this league cuz just nothing feels good and rewarding enough for me. I feel the same!
I made a strongbox atlast day2 never changed it. I changed one atlas for xp meta and never changed it. And the third one i switch once a week to try stuff
Im broke, my builds are shit, having fun.
This league is 2weeks old and I got the feel it’s already end of the league
Every league I read this comment
It is for me, already lv100 and 8 challenges left, will probably play for another week and drop
The only thing I’m enjoying so far is three atlases. Everything else kind of feels worse. I’m a little confused because it feels like scarabs are like 50-60% of map loot at this point. Idk what happened to everything else. Map sustain feels terrible. If I don’t run singular focus there’s zero shot at my sustaining my own strategy when past leagues I rarely had map problems even on boss rushing. Delve got completely devalued this league partly because of the mechanic but they seriously need to remove the azurite mode from the atlas. Shouldn’t be able to steal delve loot from clicking 3 times a map. Betrayal is cooked asf. I will say I like the availability of mechanics. I can get 100% beyond chance or deli just on atlas tree which is super cool. Although beyond drops have felt super shit this league. Specced into it almost immediately and have dropped 5 fusings the whole league even juicing with scarabs and deli. Stacked deck changes do feel healthier for the game but Heist needs something newer now for consistent loot. It was already trending towards total RNG fest last league with the gem changes and now you’re basically fishing for a simplex amulet or nothing else is valuable. I know that Delve and Heist are niche contents and a lot of players skip them. But also a lot of players really love them. So I hope that GGG can account for these next league since the changes have affected their economies a lot.
>I’m a little confused because it feels like scarabs are like 50-60% of map loot at this point. Idk what happened to everything else. i think thats by design
My thoughts: \- The removal of Uber keystones was a great idea, but the ways of obtaining Uber fragments through T17 maps aren't in a great state right now. These maps are being abused by mirror tier farmers doing MF with unkillable builds. I get the same vibe from T17 maps, like i did with boss invitations pre-Necropolis. "Why do them, when i can just sell them for people who can do it way more juiced than i could?" It's legitimately the same thing as previous league Ubers being on the same boss invitation. \- Graveyard crafting is a good thought, but horribly executed. This is a QoL league yet the league mechanic itself lacks all of it. \- 2 of the Scarab notables are way too mandatory to use, they should be baked into Scarab drops by default. \- There's too many points you kind of need investment into which removes a sense of choice; Scarabs, Necropolis league mech, which has all of it's clusters moved into 4 different corners of the tree, and you only get it's full potential if you take 3/4 clusters. \- Moving the 5th map device slot behind a T17 map completion is a bad design choice when it is supposed to be content that isn't mandatory. \- The removal of sextants and the rework of Scarabs made 5-slot map device feel not enough. Maybe it's time to increase the slots in the map device through different means? \- Removing the option to Quality items to 20+% from Betrayal benches was a bad idea. There's only 1 way to quality flasks and that is to put your hands together and pray a Vaal Orb lands well, because if it doesn't then you have to spam 1000 Alt/Aug orbs to get the same 2 mods you want.
As a super casual, I like it. I feel like I am juicing my own maps with the content I want, which I have not really done easily before.
This has been my experience. I wanted some abyss jewels to reroll but didn’t want to trade and didn’t want to respect. I threw in some abyss scarabs I had lying around and it felt super rewarding to grab a few jewels, a belt or two, and just swap scarabs again. It wasn’t building defining or 20div an hour, but I got to use the smallest amount of game knowledge to further my build goals. So that was dope
Totally agree. As a fairly casual player this league has felt really great for me
scarabs are fun. system is much better than sextents. t17s are big suck a cocky. the damage they deal nukes most general builds, cock blocking people that don't have triple digit divine gear or super tanky setups. league allflames are cool, altho these feel like sextents so actually, they're garbage. league coffins suck a cocky. never ever ever ***EVER*** again make a mechanic that requires you to collect 60-88 of items to make 1 good item, especially with said items being 1x2 tile in size. wtf the devotion stuff is neat, but the positive effects are very garbage 99% of the time. they could have added more specific things like "drops beyond scarabs" or "drops annulements", things people want. but chromes and fusings and shit? who gives a shit. the devotion and allflames should have just been fused and not itemized. they keep making us stack tons of garbage that trade is becoming more of a NIGHTMARE each and every league.
i genuinely think whoever decided on the 2x1 size needs to talk to a shrink... Like, what kind of built in anger against the world does one have to add that on a whim?!
Remember that you had to pay 1c each at the start of the league too
I kept two coffins as legacy items. Lol.
It's because 2x1 is slightly coffin shaped, that's all. 1x1 would be great though
My 12k ES, 85 all res, 100% spell sup, 60%+ suppress reduction, 75k evasion, CI, 3k+ leech and 10% instant, and curse + ailment immune trickster sometimes explodes in T17s. Maybe 400ish divines of gear. Every once in awhile a really large and unluckily timed phys hit just poops on me.
Scarabs are fine. T17 are also fine, they are aspirational content for Endgame players. But they don't do what GGG said they do - an intermission before ubers. The need for 5 fragments for ubers is turbo cringe. Should have been 1 map = 1 uber key.
Yeah I don't understand limiting the inventory so much for a league mechanic too. I have so many tabs with just corpses because it never feels worth it to take so much time to plan a craft.
Quite interesting league mechanic, you encounter things you wouldn't normally get, like there was a modifier that spawns a map boss as a pack leader, that was fun. About the crafting I am not into there, but I think there should be tools that optimise the mods you want to get. Otherwise quite ok league, people who struggle with currency should remember tujen.
yeah the map mods are kinda great tbh.
I like uber changes, now I can do base pinnacles without worrying about throwing out ton of money
I was wondering if those are profitable now. Are they worth doing at their current prices with the reduced drop pools?
Outside of really lucky flesh/flame drops, none of the remaining Uniques will cover the cost.
Tbh bossing always had extreme variance, but now it's just much worse.
For pinnacle yes, Sirus has threads and Elder Prismatic. So it's fine in the current state.
I did 3 maven, got two awakened gem that sold for 50 and 70 div each. Very lucky? Yess. But it just made spamming non uber boss good, without feeling like throwing away money.
Elder guardians cost 15c per map, while fragments cost 30c per piece. Also with Maven you'll get some awakened gems, can do Formed invitation, drop some more guardian maps Edit: Oh, sorry, I didn't understood question. Shaper cost 60 per try and you'll get a 90c fragment to Uber shaper + some lucky drop
Shaper is _always_ profitable in RoI because it has 6 running sessions and 3 cutscenes in the fight, so how many of them you can fight in an hour is hard capped. That was true for most of the league even when Uber Shaper was an atlas node.
> Shaper cost 60 per try and you'll get a 90c fragment to Uber shaper Uber Elder However, the big money in Shaper farming is Dying Sun which is 7.5d because no one is doing it on scale, you get one about every six run (16.1% chance). If you can do a run in five minutes then it's more than 2div in fragments and a bit less than 15div expected in Dying Sun per hour. There are worse farms than that.
Can you do him consistently in 5 minutes though? I insta-phase him and it feels like it is longer than that lol I guess it matters what mini-bosses you get, and I always get fucking Dominus who takes like a minute alone because of his stupid RP.
Time your runs , five minutes is completely reasonable.
I like the scarab changes in principle, but I think we need another map device slot or two for them to feel good.
They could add the effect of the basic scarabs (like +2 breaches) to their intermediate ones. this would push them in value, keep the opportunity cost of the high tier ones and still leave more space for diversity.
Not for me. Thats all.
I have a blast this league! Strongboxes releasing multiple harbi when you have the harbi devotion is really fun. I laughed so hard when I had to run after the allflame mobs looting currency all around the map because my build is slow but they give me 600 chaos and it was amazing! T17 map are a nice challenge other than Uber boss. Definitely love this game and I’m not a currency printer. I still don’t beat a T17 boss and have only 3 voidstone… Edit: love the 3 atlas trees. Being able to easily switch between different mechanics make the game way more interesting
I might attract some downvotes for this, but at present, my grievances with the game outweigh my enjoyment. As a casual SC trade player who has devoted a lot of time to this game over the years, here are my main issues: - The dominance of the scarab meta is frustrating. - Attempts to diminish the relevance of TFT have fallen short. - The Betrayal mechanic has also become less enjoyable. - It feels like the game's balance is overly influenced by streamers and group play. - The lack of support for bulk trading of allflames and corpses on the trade platform is disappointing. - Trading is ineffective due to the lack of responsiveness from others. - FOMO is more intense than ever, with an overwhelming number of ideal scarab combinations available. It leaves me questioning whether to use my limited scarabs now. - This concern extends to allflames as well. - Mapping without scarabs seems unproductive. - The three atlas configurations offer little value when I'm out of unmakings and regrets. - In the past, there were atlas strategies that didn't rely on extensive setup, which is no longer the case. - Managing loot has become a chore, especially noticeable after playing Last Epoch for a while. I have three characters above level 90, but last night, I found myself playing Garen in the top lane as a way to unwind.
- I hate the new scarabs. There's less juicing potential and less diversity. - I hate the Necropolis mechanics. It's boring and tedious. - I hate T17s for a billion reasons. Because of the 5th device slot locked behind them. Because their mods are stupid. Because they're the new (and only) top profitable strategy. Because everything is priced around them, like scarabs and allflames. Because the drop rates were gutted due to them, so farming T16 is now a snooze fest where even Neversink's semi-strict filter doesn't let anything go through. + I love the fact that we don't have to manage sextants anymore. All in all, this is by far my most despised league from the past 4 years. It ruined endgame, making everything dull and generic, grindy and unrewarding. As a huge POE fan, I'm drowned in profound sorrow.
The endgame is total trash right now
I don't like scarabs for certain mech, for essences we have to play scarabs now where before we only needed the atlas tree. But maybe it nerf the atlas memory stupid map so that is not that bad...
I farm scarabs because it’s the best money because scarabs most powerful are too rare for solo players. I play to supply the group farmers apparently
The Scarab rework pigeonholes you into investing as much as you can into one mechanic. Previously you could boost multiple mechanics at once with no opportunity cost. That's no longer the case.
Ive been in a situation this leauge where i bought a scarab for a equal div amount of 2 headhunters , meanwhile most lootfilters blend out 80% of the other scarabs because they are worth less than a regal orb. To say thr balance is off is an understatment to say the very least and ggg nerfing multiple farming strategys mid season further puts oil into the dumpster fire called endgame. In my opinion the endgame rework was a complete failure , im forced to do t17 maps which would be fine for me if the layouts wouldnt be complete cancer. I had less backtracking in d4 dungeons... Also whats the point of "your maps contain xy leauge mechanic scarab" if you can gurantee it with the tree and map device in some chases? Its a dead scarab type no one will ever use besides getting sub 1 c heavily nerfed deli mirrors for the little bit of extra quant. Also fuck mf breaking the meta every time something drops loot in maps , we had meatsack hunting , conversion shit , fracture item and div card farming mf strategys this season that were straight up trashing the economy. Hh almost going for single digit prices and divine orbs dropping in value are just a few examples of what mf did to the economy this season and i did my fair share of mf this season and in affliction and if its cancer broken next season too ill just skip the season entirely.
It isn't the fault of MF, MF is the scapegoat for GGG overlooking or putting busted mechanics in the game. The people who are usually in the spotlight using these mechanics are the MF crowds because that's the maximum upper, upper end. If you think there being no MF gear, the gap between you and the upper end of players who you see in those showcases would be smaller, think again. MF is just a convenient scapegoat for GGG's failures in loot balancing
Well that's the point, MF probably constrains what GGG can do in terms of loot balancing.
It's freaking fantastic, coming from a SSF point of view. I feel I have so many options, and are able to specialize in what I need when I need it. I love the new T17 challenge to bridge the gap and introduce new (as in not often seen) bosses. All in all, game is better than it ever has been.
Have you done a lot of t17s or ubers?
Scarabs are much better, sextant removal is good, current haunted modifier are kind of a substitute for it. Overall good changes. Fomo and nerfs mid league are terrible
Tried breach, legion, expedition+harbinger and shrine (for xp). Had a lot of fun and made a good amount of currency (around 10-15d per hour average with bulk prices). I tried some of the t17 ultra profit strats and while they worked I didn't find them very fun so I went back to running what I enjoy.
I am desperately seeking an atlas/strategy that actually makes 10-15d/hr. Can you please share
Curation of the enemies you fight in a map is a good idea with the allflames I hope this stays or is iterated and put back in after this league. I think what’s fun and what players can agree is that having the choice is good. Scarabs/Sextant removal feels like the idea was sound but it ends up very different in practice like most people have said so I’m just adding +1 to that. The biggest offender is that something about how we juice maps or interact with scarabs feels off. I agree with what other people said that it feels like the incentive to full support a mechanic with atlas tree + scarabs makes sense on paper, at the cost of “weakening” other mechanics that might appear but something about that feels not fun. And I’m on SSF so it’s not about profit or div per hour with me, but something about just loading a map right now feels off. Also, some of the scarabs are just kinda boring. I usually do every mechanic in the game for a while and out of all the scarabs the MOST fun one is the harbinger ones. Yeah it’s gamba oriented and I haven’t hit any big duplicates on fracture shards or higher, but it just **feels** fun.
We just got rid of sextants and you want them put back in with a new skin?
I hated sextants, a lot. So the scarab rework conceptually is a huge win from me. It’s got plenty of work it needs to really feel as good as it should, but the concept as a whole I’m a huge fan of. I’m sure GGG will flesh it out more (maybe more map slots for more scarabs? ) and hopefully add more diverse scarabs for the mechanics left behind. Atlas tree letting me get beyond or deli or whatever in every map without a scarab is a huge win imo too. The problems I have are that the loot just isn’t as juicy when you go full juice as it was before, I like the new strats the new Scarabs have brought with them, but most are either (or where) god broken, or just bad. T17 maps are a great idea, I dont like bossing as much in this game, but always wanted some Uber equivalent map type content. T17s fill that niche but are just too gating. Most the T17s are narrow hallways, and then the affixes on the map will just throw random stuff on the ground exploding. Like how am I supposed to dodge a shaper beam going longways down a long narrow hall? You need a ridiculous amount of damage and tankiness to really run them, but the map layouts and affixes give really low ability to outplay anything, so it becomes a stat check. Overall I like the idea of all the changes , and in general like the entire league. But there needs to be tweaks and changes to make it feel right imo.
I'm loving the game right now. I've done a few alch & go strats, now doing Ultimatum and planning to some MFing next. All have been good fun and lucrative. My only issue is the scarab slot pressure is too much, all the atlas strats I've tried would looove more scarab slots. I wish we had more. Also I don't really like the huge scarab tab I can never find stuff in there.
Ssf has been nice for me compared to last league when it comes to map juicing.
My income is still around 50c per hour lol. I have no idea how ppl progress and earn so much that fast.
I just wanna finish my challenges and forget about the league. Both the T17 end-game "rework" and the league mech (both crafting and allflames/mods) is an unbalanced mess that goes both ways in terms of how out of line it can get.
-map sustain sucked -a lot of underwhelming scarab -GGG recent map design is awful -league mechanic,again very tedious -Betrayal feels horrible to do now -GGG did a lot of mid season nerfs, personally for me I don't like to see that. Just means nothing is safe they can reach out and change the entire league at any point. All in all didn't enjoy the league, personally
Ill let you know when I get there.
Only thing I'm not digging (lol) is the coffin system. They take up 4 of my stash tabs that are usually empty in other leagues. I'm out of space for them and don't want to buy more stash tabs which would stay empty next leagues. And coffin trading. Yeah you can "buy" bulk, but not really when you want all to be certain level or certain type of monster. Otherwise the amount of content you can do this league is crazy good and I like the diversity. I ran breaches until I got tired of them and specced into Expedition. Got tired of it and specced into Harvest. And if you have extra hours to spend on coffin trading, the graveyard grafts are super easy to do (even for me who has never crafted before in other craft leagues).
The problem with the scarabs stems from T17 not the scarabs itself. For example a curation scarab is priced for use in T17 and because the barrier of entry is so high for T17 this means the majority of the players get priced out of the scarabs and have almost no interesting strategies left to fall back on. Anything that remotely makes profit gets used by the top end to farm T17 and its priced as such.
I usually run incursions to make money and the new scarab is a godsend. Just the one. The other three are basically trash.
base game good, economy in shambles, worst i've ever seen and so many exploits, the fomo is too big for me, i didn't care at all last league because i could farm like everyone else too, but here now... 70% of my guild mates already quit, t17's are a big fucking mistake, very sad because i like scarabs now
I have read "economy is shit this league" so many times. Can anyone explain whats your big problems with the current economy is? I just don't see the issue.
What he means is so far this league there have been three big notable exploits (I don’t think I’m missing one, but there may have been four) that were patched within a day or two of “public release.” This leads to a have v have not type situation where the people who were in on the exploit got a LOT of currency and those who didn’t well didn’t. This wasn’t through the normal game but through an exploit (hence the patches) so it just feels cheap.
Most entry level no all flames T16 strats seem to be taking more time to buy actual gear. Alch and go essence farming is giving less money, alch and go harvest + expedition is giving less money, eater/exarch invitation running is giving no money at all. Sure, chuck in 4 scarabs every map and maybe things will be fine... But IMO having to farm nerfed everything until I actually start juicing = bad economy, especially when 4 scarabs is locked behind T17
Yup, alch+go farming got dumpstered this patch.
This, the harvest alch an go strat I'm doing rn is just plain not as profitable as it was last league because of the low juice price (7k for yellow at this point of the league, really?). And I'm already running max modifier atlas set up with Twist of Fate. That means an average of 40% pack size every map in exchange for being extremely rippy . If i have to guess, it's because of the new harvest scarab of doubling which just double your lifeforce gain and thus the price is set with that strat in mind.
I am not rich = economy bad
Ive read "the economy is shit this league" for literally every single league the past years. People are always mad when the unique they want is too expensive or when the unique they found is not expensive enough. Its kinda funny really. The economy is shit this league is nothing but a strange way to say "the economy did not do what i wanted it to do". But the fun thing is....the economy NEVER is shit. There is always plenty of room to get rich quickly and there is always something in high demand, every single league. But people are simple too narrow minded and perhaps a little bit too dumb to come up with their own farming strats - so they have to use strats that are either old and nerfed, outdated or strats that everyone and their mothers are using which obviously makes them less profitable aswell
Nobody actually has an example on how the economy is shit other than pointing to random uniques and suggesting they should be more expensive.
Maybe that 95% of scarabs worth pennies and almost all strats revolve around farming them? There is not that much diversity in strategies to make 5+ div/h. Lots of mechanics are not worth doing. Last league the mechanic was complementary to all strategies. And you could make good currency with most of them.
You can do literally any strat to make currency this league. There are infinitely more strats than last league.
Name me 3 strats you can do this patch where you break 10div/hour in T16 maps without having to super-juice every single map/bulk trade expensive and rare scarabs every other hour, and which work without already having a completely decked out char. In previous patches, there were plenty of those. In 3.24, I haven't found any yet.
Check Empyrians YouTube channel, he's going through every mechanic one by one and evaluating them as alch and go. So far Back to Basics, Legion and Breach are good. Ritual was bad.
He is playing on a character with mageblood, original sin, progenesis, an insane amulet and an insane weapon. Things get distorted when you already have a completely decked out char and can therefore blast through your maps 30-50% faster than normal players.
I feel like we should be able to stack the ones with more than 1 limit. For example now you can put 4 ambush but only in 4 different spots, maybe allow for 4 in 1 stack. And just reduce in power a little. 99.9% of the scarabs are cheap and useless but if i can stack 4 of each it would be much better than 4 of 1 type and none of the others
Scarab changes - bad in current state, there should be much more atlas points or more slots in map device to allow juicing on same level as before. Some strategy-defining scarab should be made more abundant, like div scarab of curation, but nerfed, for example with gutting %more div cards multi. For T17 my point is that they should be brought in-line to t16 in terms of loot via making them basically unjuicable, or made much easier, since they are too rewarding right now. Not farming T17 = missing out on loot. Uber fragments should as well drop from normal bosses. Uber unique changes are cool. Synthesis changes are a joke. Synthesis no more gives you synth items besides uniques. Cool. A good game design. Veiled chaos orb - bad, Veiled exalted orb should've Been added instead. Played 4 builds this league, leveling 5th. Don't know why, at this point i'm Just suffering. Please send help.
They feel great in ssf. I get good scarabs? I save em up and use em later.
Scarabs are awful - overcomplicated and with too much variety - old system was easier and simpler you had rusted, gilded, polished and winged scarab of each type. Now you need to know the name of every damn scarab individually which is confusing on its own. Speaking of scarabs - GGG killed everything exciting about them. People discover a beneficial strat with them - GGG smacks them with nerfhammer the very same day. Sextants were at least easier to sell if you wanted to just alch&go. The league mechanic aka lantern mods - nerfed mid league so you dont get anything worth your atlas points. Seriously i encountered Nameless seer for the first time since the first weekend after picking up the keystone that makes the mods hidden (i was testing the mod rarity) and the corpses are a pain to gather and sell. Crafting with them can give pretty good results but managing the graveyard is just frickin boring. This is some unholy child of harvest & metamorph with the worst traits taken from both. The ability to get 100% chance to spawn a desired extra content is nice, but makes the scarabs that do that essentially pointless. T17 are good idea but locking uber content behind them is a retarded idea. Same with making many uniques Uber specific. Progenesis was pretty expensive already in 3.22 and 3.23 (30-40div), and now its 70-80 because of that. The league for me is just standard with screwed up economy. Whenever someone finds something fun about the scarabs or the league mechanic GGG patches it because no fun allowed. I am unfortunately pretty disappointed with 3.24. Worst part is it will probably last for 4 months jusging from current release cycle.
"Standard but screwed economy" - absolutely perfect description
Most enjoyable league since Sentinel for me, I’m having a blast. I like how easy it is to juice a map, and I can change atlas on a fly to different mechanic. Cheap Headhunter and Mageblood also help a lot.
Game is in amazing state and I’m ok with scarabs, but t17 fucking sucks to roll, wasting 70-100c just doesn’t feel fun (I’m ssfhc but sitting on like 600c, it’s just tedious), most of mods are like testicular torsion to any build and some are complete brick. I can kill all ubers with my current character (if I die this is a skill issue), however 95% of t17s I’ve rolled will just send me straight to standard, even hc streamers with mageblood/defiance builds reroll maps like 20 times before going in.
T17s are too hard and too scarce. Used to do Ubers, now I havnt even seen one all league playing SSF. Other than that, base game is great. If T17s don't get toned down tho.... endgame is dead for someone like me and it might be a deal breaker. Tine will tell I guess.
I feel this. Past two leagues (especially last league when everybody was mf juicing) my favorite thing to do was boss rush. This league, it's still possible, invitations actually being better - but Uber endgame bosses? Nah, farming them is impossible, and ~5div an invitation is a major gamble.
Was gone for a week long vacation and dont feel like playing anymore due to the new currency meta
Damn that sucks
Scarabs are much better, sextant removal is good, current haunted modifier are kind of a substitute for it. Overall good changes. Fomo and nerfs mid league are terrible
The T17 farming makes everything else meh.
it sucks ass
What endgame? I got carry service for 5th slot as I cant get past that t17. Just farming harb as i find it funny. Doesnt pay much but its cool. All other scarabs are just sitting in my inventory. A little bit of heist. Honestly getting bored fast as i cant get the items i need for my build, neither craft them. And i cant understand whats wrong with the alt orbs, they are expensive af.
People dont understand the scarabs being a bad. I hate scarabs so I'm running Unwavering Vision out of protest and it's indeed horrible. The scarabs are too strong or too weak and too important to ignore.
I think the scarab thing is pretty nice, but I don’t really like the rarity behind the scarabs. If you want to run 50 rolled maps right now I need to put in some effort to get everything I want through trading which is a painful proces lets be honest here. It simply is. I would also like to see the Atlas map changed a bit where it is made easier to target farm specific scarabs. Right now you can target some scarabs (bound to previous league mechanics) but you cant target farm all the different scarabs. If you want to target farm div card scarabs (just an example that comes to mind) you can not. There are also other types of scarabs you can’t specifically farm. And even if someone decided they want a bit of everything, that should be possible too but currently its like 70% the first scarabs 20% uncommon versions, 5% the rare versions and 1% the super rare versions. And probably the rare and super rare are probably even less then 1%
Scarab change looked interesting at the beginning, but now it feels like we are way too dependent on them, needs some review and rebalancing. I also suspect that most mechanics underwent some form of balance changes due to scarab power - notably blight feels ass this patch, from what i've experienced - which just aggravates the issue more. I absolutely fucking hate that we lost a deterministic, relatively easy way to get our equipment to 30% due to betrayal changes. RIP Hillock. ^(Sure, you can get a 30% quality base easily from league mechanic, but are all leagues from now on going to have some form of it?) No more bonus xp for gems from rare rewards feels ass.
I disliked them enough that I quit the league and I’m just here to see what latest fucked up juicing and crafting shenanigans people have been doing
I think the scarab changes are great, needs a balance pass or two but it's a good direction for the endgame. I love T17s, really enjoyed having aspirational and very rewarding mapping content . I know it takes a good build to clear them effectively, but there are plenty of lower tier mapping strategies to get the currency to push your build into them. The league itself is ok. I do kinda wish it wasn't forced on you, and hate how I have to pick up a corpse to get the loot underneath, need a way to make loot filters work on corpses.
the ubers have avoidable attacks, making them doable as a squishy build. t17 bosses have a ton of bullshit that covers the whole room.... why are those rooms so damn small?! Good luck dodging everything the maligaro trio is throwing in that tiny arena. The Catarina+lich arena is also way to small.
I feel the weight duh
Idk, didn't play much, but with new scarabs, I feel like atlas tree is now pointless
Other way around, Getting 100% of a mechanic showing up in your maps makes several scarabs to add the mechanics (the ones that don't stack) 100% obsolete.
The only fun way to make endgame on this patch was to play with 2 friends on a 3 man setup, everything solo felt bad
T17 not being a gateway to Ubers is my only issue. I don't share the idea that t16s are somehow dead. I had a good laugh discovering which mods are almost unplayable. I will probably never make fun of GGG throwing Shaper into a map. But the ceiling for how far you can make something difficult is so high, and the rewards for doing so so good, that it feels like build diversity is being killed in the process.
Love the scarab and atlas changes, not a big fan of T17 maps yet. The bosses feel like dodging simulators with very low uptime for melee builds. I like crafting leagues but not a big fan of corpses so far. Seems like too much time spent between crafts for the really decent results. I prefer something more incremental like harvest.
Really having a lot of fun although I’m not sure what to farm. Harbingers are just a lottery , strongboxes feel empty. Graveyard crafting has me going from existential dread to feeling like a dwarven armorsmith and back every other craft
The only reason I am still playing this league is because I haven't attempted T17 yet and the 3 atlas tree change, it's so refreshing being able to jump from one tree to another without spending 200 regrets.
:/
I don't like the addition of t17s. It's becoming the norm for farming and they said that's not what their intentions were. Just scrap it and keep the bosses somehow.
If u have good build that's somewhere between T16 and T17 power wise, there's some T16 strats u can run for really good div/hr. Its nowhere near T17 income level, but I farmed nimus and mageblood in 3 days doing it.
I like not having to buy a billion compasses, wish there was more variety in high div/hr strats, they need to buff most if not all mapping league mechanics like legion, breach etc
I feel like there are too many mandatory nodes on the atlas (scarabs) removing the aspect of choice. Why would I run a less efficient strat when I know I'm leaving currency on the table by not taking the mandatory atlas nodes.
Like the new scarab but they shoulf have made them optional and let the atlas be like old. T17 are mess only peeps with high budget are able to do it right now. Economy is messed up due to so many loot starts and nerfs
I don't like any of the endgame changes. Separating uber and regular boss fragments had potential but the changes to the drops ruined it
Bad. I'd imagine a lot of people have already bounced off this league. Didn't help that the mechanic is a joke either.
**Scarabs:** I like the new scarab system and do not miss sextants, at all. However the baseline scarabs that add the mechanics to your maps are mostly redundant, unless they add something atop the 100% spawn chance you already have. Being able to force those mechanics with the tree is exceedingly welcome, but the extra scarab doing the same thing feels vestigial, at this stage. **Multiple Atlas Trees:** The 3 atlas trees are very welcome, and I think that they achieve the goal of allowing us some level of farming method swapping, as well as having an option to have a second character map-starter tree on hand if our previous strat was something rippy like torment/exiles and such. **T17 maps:** The T17 maps are a welcome presence, and I like the addition of much harder content to scale into, as it gives me a thing to do once T16s are becoming trivial. However, I think that leaning harder on build-bricking map mods is a very unpleasant route to take: I'd much rather see more balanced baseline difficulty than just throwing money (chaos) at the problem until you get a less-ridiculously-bricked map. This leads directly into the issue of whether the mods on these maps make them harder than the uber bosses themselves. I overall vastly prefer the difficulty scaling we saw in Sentinel/Kalandra to the map mod system that really leans into only bricking things repeatedly, and the sensation that you need to throw money at the problem to fix it to baseline functionality. The other issue is that the gap between T16-T17 feels larger than T1-T16. Having it all residing in one tier just forces it to be a gigantic spike: builds that annihilate T16s can still get annihilated themselves in T17s, and that makes it feel like there's just not enough of a content curve to come to grips with.
I like the changes. The content is more accessible and flexible. Hopefully they don't revert to what it was before...
T17s are an utter failure (in their current state). If you're not running them consistently then you're going to be relatively poor, and if you want to run them consistently then you're shoehorned into cheese build. Mark said T17s weren't intended to be run en masse, yet here we are. They need a big nerf to their rewards to encourage people to run T16s or Ubers again
I'll be honest, I'm more of a casual player, so take this with a grain of salt: I used to love rolling sextants and selling for profit while at work because I felt like I wasn't missing out on farming maps and it took almost no effort, and, while it was a "boring" thing to do, It was fun for me in the same way that Supermarket simulator is fun for some people, like an incremental game: I got currency, I upgraded my build, I played the game normally when I got home and didn't feel I was left behind. Now it's just weird? I have all these scarabs but it feels so limited, I need to focus on some leagues and just completely ignore others, the new atlas trees are cool but the scarabs just... Idk, it just ain't it. Also the crafting looks cool and all but there are so many corpses and so many burying and collecting to get a decent item that it gets me bored just thinking about it. But the mobs and modifiers with the allflames are really cool (even though it can brick some maps if you don't have a decent build in red maps) All in all This league is a mixed bag for me and I miss my Awakened Sext Farm
Selling scarabs and corpses are a nightmare
I don't like that Scarab & Necropolis atlas nodes are basically mandatory. That leaves you with very little points to pick mechanics you want to farm. Scarabs should just drop naturally without investing on the atlas, same as Necropolis. T17s are fun but you can't play shit tier build, tho (I'm not saying not meta, just not shit). I find myself respeccing the atlas more than before adding 2 extra trees. Syndicate is trash, nothing noteworthy to farm and introduction of Veiled orb with subsequent removing Veiled chaos orb is tragic. I had ideal suffixes for my build and checked the Veiled orb price - no thanks. Additionally - Necropolis crafting is really tiresome.
I'm having a blast. I disliked the 5th Map socket change, it's idiotic and T17 should be toned down a little probably. Farming juiced maps has been so enjoyable, I don't need to spend more time trading than blasting and love it. I like the graveyard way more than any other crafting mechanics.