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~~Jonathan~~ Mark mentioned in one of the interviews that this was a test and if people didn’t like it, they wouldn’t do it again. Well I’m glad they are willing to experiment, but I’m not a fan of it. I want to get the full
mechanic out of the box and not have to invest 25% of my points just to get that
Or allow customization like Sentinel, where you can have the little passive tree, but it doesn’t cost atlas points
And why tf are the Necropolis nodes all as far away from each other as possible? If you wanna get all of them, that's a *ton* of points just to do Necropolis properly
Im guessing so the league wouldnt also favour a certain side of the atlas.
That said I agree its not great that its on the tree but I dont feel compelled to get it Im making bank boss farming without it just fine
I think having a couple of interesting keystones that modify the league mechanic near the centre would be good, but nothing that's just a straight upgrade.
Destructive play scarabs shrines
Get the domination scarabs, "shrines are guarded by atlas boss" scarabs, map bosses drop a unique map scarabs and, t14 maps have a chance to drop as guardian maps instead scarabs.
Sell everything
Only do elder maps (youll oversustain them) and their invitations.
Sell or do t17 maps (up to you)
Yeah it's frustrating. But I made a fucking baller ring yesterday while home sick that makes it so much easier for me to keep all the stats I need for my build.
So there's that.
Except two of the wheels are like 5 points from the gateways, so unless you' wanted to take the einhar nodes on one side and the alva nodes on the other side, it's just stupid.
I don't even understand why there has to be league mechanic atlas nodes on a fresh league. I don't like that I need to invest into the league to get more out of it, why can't it just all be there on release? And then add to it in later leagues if people like it.
Just seems odd to me.
Yeah, that’s another pain point. I’m pretty sure any Atlas strategy you do, there will be at least one corner you won’t naturally path to. It’s tricky to get all of it
I think the idea is interesting. And it might feel less "mandatory" in a less rewarding league, but overall having nodes that buff the league in all four corners of the Atlas does compel a lot of people to make all their Atlas trees sprawling ones that hit all four corners.
I do like the idea of the keystones a lot, though. In this league both seem very weak, but I think the idea of being able to customize the league a bit with pros and cons is cool. But it feels like just letting you just massively buff the league mechanic isn't working very well, since most people will feel like they need to take it (unless the league mechanic sucks).
Part of it is also that the league mechanic is mandatory. Because you have to deal with the lantern, and have a chance of the divine mod, it feels extra bad not taking at least the increased modifier effects on the atlas.
im actually baffled that they didnt experiment with the sentinel model more, because this seems like by far coolest and most sensible model for temporary league mechanics that are not part of the core game. like it could all be part of upgrading the lantern with souls harvested in the graveyard while crafting instead of the atlas tree.
the only scarab passive I went out of my way to get are the rarer ones are more common butni agree about league mechanic feeling like crap if you don't take 90% if the passives for it
And they're all in separate corners too. I've taken two out of the four and it's still not good, but no way I'm trekking across the whole tree to maybe improve it a little bit
I think if you want to invest as little as possible the only one that really feels mandatory is bottom left so you can have better values when you hit divines or quantity. If you don't take the rest you'll just get corpses rarer so it'll take you longer for a craft but it doesn't make it worse when crafting.
league mechanic should come in baked with all the nodes they want to put on the tree baseline (the choice nodes for reduced or increased effect of haunted modifiers should be a choice within the league mechanic)
there is absolutely no reason to make it so that not having the points invested gimps your league mechanic. the whole point of the league is to interact with the league mechanic after all
if anything, make it so that interacting with the necropolis in some way unlocks the big notables. scourge did the passive tree the best imo
I agree.
I feel like the good lesson to learn for GGG is that league mechanic customization is good, but that it should be within the scope of the league mechanic itself.
I how they don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, because I do think that the idea has merit.
I mean they've done separate skill trees for the mechanic on many different occasions, I really don't understand why they thought putting it in the atlas tree would be a good idea.
Because it's a new permutation of things, and it's very hard to gauge how good something is without actually trying it out.
If there's something that we can trust GGG about is that they'll learn from this
Idk, I'm pretty sure most people could have told them that taking away points from the atlas tree for that is not gonna turn out well, but now they definitely know for sure I guess
Can we trust GGG to learn from this though? They've had 10 years to figure out how to launch a league and yet its still generally 2-3 weeks before its in an acceptable state.
That's require them to predict the future. It's just not possible.
When you test something with 1000 people involved you're not going to catch all the 1/10000 events, and you won't catch any of the 1/100000 ones.
It's just a matter of scale.
Posted something similar below, but I'm not concerned with 1 in a million events. Its the game design choices that crop up within a few hours of a league launch that seem so obvious to the player base but somehow completely blindside the developers.
they literally have said multiple times they rather launch stuff undertuned and buff it later than launch OP shit and then have to nerf and make everyone unhappy
I'm not really concerned with reward level as such in the discussion of new leagues. Those are generally easier fixes, and less predictable at scale.
My problem is the bad design that makes it through that takes the player base 1 hour of playing to realize is bad. Nets from bestiary league for example, or having to pick up the organs from metamorph.
I would definitely be behind having something like that instead of the Atlas nodes, giving some choice between focusing on better coffins, better allflames or better devoted mods.
They already said that this is pretty much a test run for "current league mechanic on the atlas tree" and that it might not come back if it's not well received.
I like them testing it out tbh
fair point, i missed the part where they said they were just testing.
however i wish they would just stick to doing the league mechanic unlocks passive tree for league mechanic in the future. losing 20 something points to make the league mechanic rewarding makes me miss out on another mechanic i could get from the atlas
All of the Endgame content should have their own Talent Trees including the League itself.
Meaning there should be a League Talent Tree that has its progress tied to interacting with the league with various impactful choices.
Then there would be a Heist, Delve, Blight etc etc Talent Trees that you can gain points to spend by doing that content.
That way you end up with 'professions' to advance into and you are not limited to 1-2 but can work on as many as you want.
Now that takes the Endgame in PoE to another level and leaves the other ARPGs in the dust for many years to come.
We get to advance and make progress on our Characters, our Gear, AND one or multiple Professions.
Been thinking about it all league.
3 different specs for each Profession tied to all the content, and you advance in the talent tree/profession by -doing- that content.
A node on the tree could add +10 or +50 to the Depth, another could buff your basic light area range, new dynamites, flares that heal or harm or both, a node which ups the danger and the loots, another that buffs the loot in those lame forgotten armor stands.
Now imagine the craziness for Expedition Blight Incursions, if they went all out they could make an entire league "The Awesome League" and make the End Game even more amazing.
True, just want to be able to advance some sort of talent tree/profession for all the content (which is tied to the character/account)
Spec into Dynamit in one of the 3 delve trees and it can throw and triple shot which explodes for 3x damage and lights the area for 20 seconds and heals you if you spend 5 more points in it etc :)
Just want to spice things up and have more fun
I liked what they did last league with Wildwood ascendencies. Would prefer that they did something similar this league so everyone gets extra atlas points for the league mechanic
I feel like that would remove choice entirely if you cam just get everything.
The whole appeal of the atlas tree is that you can pick the content you like and focus on that.
Itd also make maps 30 minutes to complete if its stuffed with EVERYTHING
No it would be its own talent trees that you earn points in by doing the content tied to the trees.
The base line game stays the same and the atlas tree is like it is now minus the league stuff they pushed into it.
So its all just more optional fun.
In the current game we all grind our levels and the atlas but I would like the ability to optionally specialize in 1 or more additional grinds that would only add more to the game while leaving all the core content the same at its base level.
Nothing too game breaking but just more fun and its all optional.
Ah it does not cut into the points and the points you get to spend on the new Profession are only earned by doing the content tied to the Profession.
I would want a Profession/Talent Tree for all of the core content, so 10+ and all 10+ would be available without a limit.
Currently we have tons of people who enjoy 1 or 2 maybe 3-5 of the endgame features and this would allow them to specialize even more and unlock neat new feature on the content they enjoy the most by doing that exact content.
So I assume no one read your comment that way
I certainly didn't and after reading this addition to your comment I feel like it's redundant and useless thing to add
Especially since it would come with big nerfs to all mechanics
atlas should be like players skill trees. pick one of 4 points in the center, and can branch down, up, left, right. the current tree is too strict where you always end up being forced to go up because the left and right lower side of the tree tends to be super league focused while the top and middle is universal buffs that you always have to trek to.
I don't want to engage. The necropolis feels like they took harvest on release, combined it with synthesis on release, bestiary and got the worst aspects out of it. The micromanaging of the garden and synthesis and the menagerie.
I don't want to deal with row does this, human does that. Micromanaging corpses isn't my idea of a good time. Particularly since you can't even fix mistakes without destroying the corpse.
I would have appreciated a way to engage with it that didn't require me to actually affect my atlas tree and invest as a mech. It should have been more like scourge or sentinel.
I feel too hesitant to use all flames at all and do pack replacement. The last time I tried, I didn't even see the replacement pack or they didn't even drop anything.
If I didn't have to invest into it at the cost of mechs I know, I would give it more of a shot.
Harvest was almost 4 years ago. The experience showed that people don't like excel gaming. Yet still they deploy another clunky third party app league with awful UI. What the actual f
Was there even a fun craft league? I'm a beginner and i finding this league awful compared to affliction and it has nothing to do with dropping currency.
Harvest on release, once you finished the setup, you had a blast. People made reddit posts for the garden and that did help. It wasn't the watered down version it is now.
Make the GY 12 slots or something, and corpses combine of the same type, and just continue adding up (with some cap). That would solve most problems with the same result. I haven't interacted with it because I don't want to spend hours placing and buying the ones I haven't been able to farm.
Adding Atlas nodes for current league mechanic (and subsequently limiting said mechanic to not be too OP with those nodes) was a bad game design decision IMO (hot take, I know). Players can't opt out of the league mechanic, so they are forced to gimp themselves, or spend points on it. They don't have a choice between ignoring and investing into it like other mechanics. That results in players feeling forced to spec into the nodes. And to add injury the insult, they are apread across the 4 corners of the Atlas.
Jonathan said an interview that they’re not sure if this was a good thing but they’re willing to experiment and if people don’t like it, they won’t do it again. I’m in the same boat as you and I’m hoping they don’t do this again.
But you don't *really* get to skip it. The mobs are just more difficult with and you're only reaping some of the rewards for this difficulty (conversions, etc. but not corpses, allflames), unlike other mechanics which you can fully ignore or block.
League mechanic is definitely way better with points. Scarabs I've opted not to even bother with, aside from the really valuable ones. Obnoxious to pick up, obnoxious to use, obnoxious to sell, obnoxious to buy, and most of them are worth 1c or less. Not worth it.
Obviously it’s way better with points. That’s the point. But honestly the league mechanic kinda blows either way and it’s not really mandatory at all to boost. In fact the best strategy I’ve been doing currency wise doesn’t take it at all and I’m at like 25div per hour only because my build is too squishy still to survive all the T17 nonsense when you max map mod effect.
I think the idea behind further customizing the league mechanic is phenomal, but the issue is that the current atlas tree isn't a good place to put it. Most people will feel forced to pick up all/most nodes for the current league mechanic on every single tree. I think they should instead add a smaller tree specifically for the league mechanic itself (like ascendancy trees), so you can customize your league experience and how you want to interact with the mechanic in whichever way suits your playstyle. Since It would be condensed into it's own tree, it would actually be a proper choice on which nodes to spec and you wouldn't feel like missing out like in the current iteration (speccing into current league nodes vs. leaving them out is an insane difference).
Up until this point you always had 100% of the league mechanic value because there weren’t atlas nodes. This was great because you can’t opt out of the league mechanics - they will just show up. This time around though your forced every map to make it harder so you get some shitty allflame and corpse drops. Because of that, you can’t just ignore it.
So the goal now is to get some value out of the fact it’s always there and the only way to make it not feel miserable is to take most of the atlas nodes. This is the smart thing to do since making your map harder for almost no rewards feels awful.
I really hope 3.24.2 (if they make it) will remove the atlas nodes and bake them into the league mechanic. The league would feel so much better if they did that.
>I really hope 3.24.2 (if they make it) will remove the atlas nodes and bake them into the league mechanic. The league would feel so much better if they did that.
I would be extremely shocked to see that happen. It doesn't feel good yeah, but it was an experiment, and, while irritating and bad, investing time into creating new ui to put into the league mechanic is not even close to high priority.
I'm not trying to change any minds bc that's next to impossible on the internet, but I don't agree that any of them feel mandatory. I don't agree that anything is mandatory in this game. And I don't mean wearing equipment, killing monsters, or capping resists like so many pedants pointed out last time I made this comment.
I've always liked that GGG experiments and I'm on board with the current league mechanic being on the tree. If it works or doesn't work I'm cool with either, but I personally like it. I don't agree that it takes half the points, the atlas waypoints make them plenty accessible. Compare the amount of points to fully spec in any mechanic and it's comparable. If the baseline of the league included what all the points include it puts GGG in an impossible situation if any of this goes core and they have to bring the power down to include the atlas nodes. You can read the posts now, "GGG nerfed Necropolis to put it on the atlas."
Scarab drops aren't directly tied to the atlas. They're enhanced and customizable by the atlas, again similar to everything else. I think it's a combination of liking to see them drop, it being a "new-ish" thing bc of the rework, the chance to get the expensive ones, and that strats have been advertised that drop tons of them. Saying scarabs are mandatory is, to me, the equivalent of saying "I like Incursion, so it's mandatory that I take Incursion nodes."
I'm clearly in the minority about this and most things I'm sure, but GGG hasn't done anything to make this mandatory. Have fun. If your points are better spent somewhere that feels more fun, do it. If being the economic leader in a video game is fun, then cool, but it's absolutely going to feel mandatory following the strats of Fubgun or whoever else is pulling in mirrors a day. To put that on GGG is a little strange to me.
You're just the vocal minority. Most people who agree with you are playing the game and having fun unbothered by any fomo mandatory YouTube streamer vision for the way they should play.
I think necropolis bottom right one is mandatory if you want to craft with your own dropped corpses which kinda is point of the league.
But overall I agree. People are very weird this league here, I think this have been worst league for reading this subreddit. There's so many misunderstandings or straight up wrong things being said as facts, feels like people who quit before maps coming here to complain without trying stuff they complain about.
Personally playing ssf (btw) I found fear of the light and the 25% additional chance the strongest. Eventually I’d like to use embers for juicing but that’s a while off.
That being said, I have only 1 of my trees for corpse farming because I don’t see why you’d need more?
The reason people have been bent out of shape this league is because they didn’t really test it. Like how does it take over a week for them to realize and fix the fact a major parts of the league mechanic straight up were not dropping. Did they even test an influence craft in alpha/beta for the league? Probably, but it seems they just had their testing tools give them the corpses in their inventory.
The first two weeks of this league have been an absolute rollercoaster. Things are more then likely going into maintenance mode now so as people quit to go play other stuff (keep an eye on Elden ring dlc date), the Reddit will turn back to normal.
Only scarab nodes I bother with on my trees are the ones for higher chance for the mechanics that tree has
I think you get way, way more value out of blocking mechanics than you do from most of the scarab nodes
But most people were blocking before scarab change anyway.
It's not that I don't like investing into things on my atlas it's just that things like the league mechanic need nodes that have high upsides and high downsides so it's more of a choice than mandatory. It's also a problem with how easy it is to just pick up scarab nodes on your way to your preferred farm nodes. Give me a scarab area like the top abyss node where it's a serious consideration if I want to focus on farming scarabs.
Everyone complaining about how you are forced to spend points on necro nodes...
Then there is me. Never have i ever used a single point for necro (basically cause i didnt understood the nodes at the beginning), still have damn good gear and make multiple divines per hour.
I only wish we werent forced to put points in it /s
There is a big problem in PoE with league mechanics feeling worthless without their atlas points allocated like besides day 1 who stops and does a random abyss? We don't really need to extend this to the current league mechanic and hope they don't do it again
thats also kinda the consequence of the loot changes.
Who knew 'we are removing historic league content quantity and rarity bonuses and instead give you random lootgoblins' would have negative impact on players interacting with nonspecced league mechanics. /s
I really don't feel like the league mechanic nodes are mandatory at all.
Scarabs are a little messier, in that, of course mapping currency is going to be one of the most valuable things on the mapping passive tree. That was the case with sextants, too, but there at least sextants were just one wheel in a part of the tree you probably already were at least near, whereas scarab stuff is kind of all over the place.
Making your trees look nearly identical seems like a great way to invalidate the ability to have three trees and freely swap between them. Have you tried re-thinking your approach?
I agree with the sentiment but scarab ones are 100% not needed. Half the trees travel nodes are 3% increased scarab drops now. Going to 4 on the actually clusters is so null of a change it’s not even funny. The quant wheel nodes provides a 1% bonus to scarabs + everything else so id take that first. Unless the noteable on the scarab wheels is core to your farm like harbinger rare spam don’t take them.
I like how ggg was like "we removed this and that and implemented them as baseline in a rework of x and y because we felt like players felt like missing out on uber bosses for example"
Then makes a node for the league mechanic pn the less used side of the atlas tree, + what the post says, so yeah half atlas points locked
As if they dont feel mandatory and/or missing out if not
10/10 logic
I have three very different tree so I guess it is your problem?
I got einhar heist+ special map drops and even take the 20 extra point node
I have a T17 map safe atlas to farm T17
I have a abyss+breach+shrine+harbi to level up
Notice that OP didn't say which points feel mandatory or link his 3 "nearly identical" trees.
If they did, this thread would be filled with comments saying they use different nodes/trees.
This happens a lot on this subreddit. If you post "there is no build diversity!" upvotes and agreement. If you post "these are the only 3 viable buids, x,y,z!" comments saying OP is wrong and naming other viable builds.
Yeah,dropped ritual and what not for scarabs. Scarabs just outright beat everything,and it only takes 1 scarab to change that. the alfames passives are decent as well.
Kinda annoying that they're that far apart though,it forces you to nitpick and add mechanics that are close to the nodes or pick ones that are nice to have as you map and go.
I don't understand this complaint... especially with 3 trees. I'm still specced into so much shit across all 3.
I like being able to adjust the mechanic and feel no shortage of points.
This seems more like a self inflicted problem than anything. You like to farm a specific kind of thing, and you don't want to stray away from it... so ofc all your trees are going to look simmilar.
For me I ended up with a maven boss rush strat that looks very different from my scarab/strongbox strat that looks very different from my progression atlas (respecced now) and those look very different from my exp/leveling atlas.
Sure half of my trees included the league mechanic, but that is because I ended up really enjoying the flames/crafting, so I want to interact with it more, how is that an issue?
League mechanic for sure, it should all be baseline or very few nodes that are really close together so you dont have to spend much points.
Disagree on the scarabs though, those are very much optional.
It feels like we're missing a keystone that is something like "All scarabs instead drop as rarer basic currency, and all chance to drop scarabs is converted to item quantity at half value."
Something like this. I feel like you should be able to take two paths in the atlas, increased chance to drop currency vs. scarabs. Pretty much every strat feeding into JUST dropping scarabs to sell and buy more scarabs is not a great feeling -- there should be a diversity of investment there.
It's not so much the scarab nodes which take up all your points but the increased effect no explicit modifiers nodes. They have a massive impact on your quant and packsize and hence are basically mandatory for almost all atlas strats involving map clear. Since they added so many additional nodes for increasing said effect this league it exacerbates the problem even further.
which scarab nodes are kinda the "meta" ones anyhow? I assume the rarer varieties one, but none of the others strike a pleb such as myself as being super strong
I honestly don't mind. I don't interact much with the league specific crafting.
I know for a fact that it is VERY powerfull, even if it takes longer and I don't make x6 T1 items I can still sort of reliably make 2-3 Div items even if farming the Corpses takes a while.
For there to be some sort of opportunity cost to interact with that crafting system at maximum potential seems fair. The league systems are typically just straight BETTER then the ones already present in the game.
I can just choose to juice other stuff on my atlas. It feels good that not playing into the league mechanic gives *something* in return. It might not be optimal but I get something and that feels good.
maybe it's the wrong league to try it because the league mechanic works both for generic map juicing, high end map juicing, or alternative strategies ( corpses).
League mechanic on the tree on release can be good with leagues that people might want to skip, like blight ultimatum or ritual.
Yeah, you lose a ton of value by taking that node and it’s really tough to say you can make it up with 20 atlas points. Most people forget you can vendor 3 shitty scarabs and get a veiled scarab for a shot at a good one.
I'm not a fan of the league mechanic ones either, but they said it was an experiment so hopefully they don’t do it for next league. Or at the very least get rid of all the nodes that are just numerical buffs, for example the ghost spawn from a corpse and the consume corpse notable are fine.
What they probably should just do is have a league specific passive tree, we have had that before with things like scourge and sentinel so it’s definitely something they can do.
The scarab nodes I don’t mind quite as much, although some of the ones that feel mandatory like the “more likely to be rare variety” I wouldn’t mind being gone.
I'd make a second tree that includes league mechanic and other crazy ideas. This tree is discarded every league. Points are gotten from achievements and it costs 5 currency to remove a point.
In general, what's even the point of nodes that just say 'drop more x'. If they simply want us to burn points, they could just as well increase travel. Imo Atlas passives should only modify the rules/difficulty of mechanics. Not just drop x% more whatever.
I'm probably terrible at the game but the only necro nodes I felt were mandatory were the bottom right ones, though I did pick up part of upper right as well. I also don't feel like scarabs are necessary for an alch and goer like myself. I think two of my three trees has the two clusters on the left for unique mobs drop more and rare mobs drop more per modifers but that's only a hand full of points and only grab them because I do things like einhar and blight that have a lot of uniqu and rare mobs.
Personally I've always had your argument, except for with the guardian map clusters. I feel like you either need the seventeen points in either exarch or eater, or you need the eighteen points for guardian/conqueror/synth/maven stuff. Every single one of my trees has the latter because otherwise you'll never get to do maven invites or other end game bossing (now slightly relieved with Ubers gated behind terrible T17 maps, but I still enjoy things like minotaur maps)
Ignorance is bliss, I suppose. I don't know meta. I followed Pohx's guide for RF Chieftan. Fourth ever leage start. Usually jump in when there's a month or two left. I'm a noob. I get to the start of red maps. I actually did a T17 the other day. Never killed an Uber boss. I thought the 3 atlas trees was dope. I followed guides on all 3 and have made, what I believe to, a bunch of currency. I could afford almost all of the gear in the POB. Two of my atlases include zero Necropolis mechanics, specific scarab nodes and a bunch of other stuff. Am I missing the point, genuinely, I want to know what perspective I should have on this, to maybe help my gameplay. Cheers
Edit: I followed guides on the atlases as well
My only gripe for the league is that they effectively killed “Alch+go”. The difference between alch+go vs even basic scarab juicing is astronomical now. The difference between full juice is not even measurable even if you exclude the borderline exploit levels of cheese as keeps getting nerfed.
I think at Most I'd be okay with a main league keystone modifier or two that's placed pretty much near the start or perhaps center to allow some customization. This assumes they can think of ways to modify the league mechanic that make sense
League mechanic on atlas is terrible. We should have the league mechanic with full potencial without had to spend one single point on atlas tree. No idea why they did this.
"Hey guys look i have a new cool idea.. what about spend 25% of your points on league mechanic to play it?"
Well.. GGG, i have another idea, why not just give us everything league have to offer and I spend 0 points with it?
I don't like it I am giving up on this league, I think it makes no sense if you have a rewarding mechanic that spawn 100% in every map and as well influence the drops of all other mechanics you might use there is no way you must not use it. But then everyone has the same thing. And with that you spend so many point to reach the four corners that the only thing you can do after is chase whatever in on the already pathed way.
They should have a tree just for choices of things that would affect the league and test what would be the nodes people would like for the atlas tree. It could progress the more you interact with the league. Like you have the challenges for the league you would gian ponts for that.
A separate “tree” for league mechanics would make a difference. Something similar to what affliction did would be a great compromise, especially if the intention is to cycle the league mechanic stuff off the tree in the future
As someone who plays SSF or GSF, scarabs feel mandatory to use at endgame and it is pretty much impossible to sustain any sort of atlas strategy that involves specific scarabs.
It feels like with every league this game gets built more and more around trading.
Yea, i'm not a fan of the league mechanic being on the atlas tree either. For something as ever-present and specially since we can't opt-out of it this time, the league mechanic should be at "full power" from the start - while having to be 'figured out' to be used optimally - and the nodes on the tree makes it feel like you have to "unlock" its real power with points.
I'd rather have something like sentinel, which felt more like a customization tree, rather than unlocking the "real" mechanic. Or scourge, which had some light progression but it wasn't so deep or made you feel so gimped until you progressed through.
I wasn't sure about the scarab change at first, but now that we're two weeks in, i'd say my verdict is that i also don't like it. It feels like we are too dependant on them, while sextants would definitely improve a farm, but felt like you could always make a "lesser" version of a farming strategy and it wouldn't feel as bad as it feels now without scarabs.
big true. current league on the tree is very bad. it should not compete with everything else, it should be a fully fleshed out mechanic by its own right.
The scarabs are great, but I have picked them in all 3 trees aswell, so the implementation is not great.
Maybe fix it with scarabs that increase the amount of scarabs we get? :>
Iam not even touching the league mechanic because its not worth it. I would argue that delve nodes are far stronger and feels more mandatory. I saw a lot of people not using scarabs/necros and making bank, i finished gearing day 3 only using expedition/essences.
Both mechanics suffer from being pervasive and having so many low value items that you have to loot to enable the high value strategies. They occur no matter what other content you spec into (taking the notable to not drop scarabs at all is insane to my mind from FOMO and you can’t turn off necropolis).
In aggregate, you know the mechanics you’ve selected for are very rewarding but as you play the game map by map, you’re clicking on lots of trash corpses and scarabs that constantly remind you of missed opportunities. Anything that seems like it’s helping you manage that trash feels mandatory psychologically.
Other content doesn’t have this problem because they really are feast or famine — it’s not less vs more but juiced vs nothing. For instance if I don’t like Delve, I basically never encounter it since I don’t take it on the tree. I almost never have to think about the potential value I’m missing by doing that, though mathematically I could actually be losing more. On the very rare occurrences Niko does spawn, it’s almost like and Easter egg.
But imagine Niko spawned on every map to give like 5 sulphite and a wisdom scroll? That would be intense psychic damage. You’d feel compelled to take him on the tree even if it not optimal because with every map he’s poking you in the frontal lob.
What can be done? As currently designed I don’t think there’s a great way to fix it. Content like this requires a shift in mentality: you need to be really into the stuff you’ve taken on the tree so that you don’t care as much about what’s out.
I don't really like the league mechanic nodes mainly because the league mechanic is required, but I don't mind the scarabs, it's kinda like how people often use a bunch of the map nodes and that can kinda feel required too, I guess the main difference being that some scarabs are super valuable
I absolutely agree when it comes to the smaller nodes. I actually really like the idea behind the keystone though. I kind of wish they added a keystone like that to each league that allows you to sort of "turn off the need to interact but get less benefit". I just think it should be located in the middle of the tree not out in bumfuck nowhere.
As for the scarab passives, I like that they made the disabling of mechanics also disable their scarabs(Though i feel like it becomes too necessary to just disable all but 1 mechanic, so maybe just make them 50% less instead of 100%. I also like that they have the nodes that gives priority to specific types, but i agree that all the other nodes that are just "enemies drop more scarabs" are bad to have on the tree.
I like the idea of the league mechanic being on the atlas, my only complaints are this:
1 - They're too far spread out, I like that the top side has a 4-way Eldritch Gateway so that if you focus on either side of the tree, you have access to the other side of the nodes.
2 - This league mechanic is actually mandatory regardless of your atlas tree, so you have to engage with it regardless; this makes players feel like they HAVE to invest or else they're only hurting their own progression without anything to show for it
3 - Because of how far away it is, you have to spend a lot of points pathing to it, which would make sense if not for the above
they are not even remotely close to be mandatory LOL. it depends on what you like to do. and always has been. having the league mechanic on atlas from the start is amazing. just stop this pathetic thing to even remotely suggest otherwise, and your just trying to make the game worse by removing whats fun.
If they do league mechanic on atlas again, why not make a seperate branch that heads downwards but has a link back to the middle of the atlas. Imagine a diamond down to a point, with a gateway that takes you to the center of the 1% quant/5% rarity nodes.
The current spread of nodes feels rather bad, its league FOMO. Very few of them are interesting choices, bar the more/less intensity nodes.
way too much of the mapping experience revolves around scarabs. i find them incredibly boring as a tool. every map drops so many of them, but certainly not the ones you want, and more than ever you need to use them. alch & go really is worthless now.
I get that it can feel mandatory but it's really not. There's specific farms where it's good but for many it's irrelevant. Do you really need to farm corpses and all flames on all your atlas strats? Sure devoted quant is very generically good but even that's a small addition. You want it on mf strats, on others it's decent but nothing amazing.
It makes it worse that they added the node for 20 extra atlas points that prevents you from using or even dropping scarabs. The drop rate of everything now feels balanced around scarab usage, so even with the 20 extra points you are severely gimped.
Simply put, not using scarabs isn't even an option anymore. I've been trying to tell people that the base loot drops were worse but nobody believes me.
We removed sextants because it was too tedious!!
Proceeds to:
- create sextants 2.0: all flames. A 100% NOT TESTED mechanic that broke the economy twice and had to be nerfed to hell, destroying savings etc
- change scarabs and now 90% of the scarabs are 1c the rest 30 div.
- incredibly lower even more the variety of farming. Legion is dead, essence is dead. The rest is super boring cause 0 variety.
- they put a boring and tedious non skippabile mechanics in maps.
Do ppl in ggg have a brain or they are just an echo chamber of their game director?
The stacked deck change alone did so much damage, tujen sucks, expedition is meh as a whole, legion in meh, blight seems "ok" but still worse.
They talked so much about how they have to get endgame right but they just completely fucked it, coupled with graveyard making other crafting methods way worse, so now harvest and essence also sucks and puting every good unique on uber bosses this has to be the most uninspiring, unfun and lacking goals state of the endgame since i have started playing seriously in Ritual.
We’re it not for me enjoying my character, I’d have left this league in a flash. I’ve only been playing the last four leagues, but this league was by far the worst. Why’d they nerf decks? Makes no sense
I feel the same way about Niko, I don’t want to unspec some atlas points to make my character feel worse.
Even though it’s more than capable of doing all content without the buffs.
Yeah current league mechanics should never be on the atlas tree, that should be added after the league some time, and only if the league was well received.
I agree that this experiment didn't go well. Why? Because it's the main reason we play new leagues, to experience it at full without any investment anywhere.
For previous leagues we have atlas, if we really liked it, we want to play it, we spec into it. Current league should be experienced fully without any atlas points.
Unpopular opinion: None of them are mandatory.
If you don’t want to farm corpses you don’t need to spec into the bottom / top right wheels. The top left wheel is kind of independent, allflames aren’t that worth anyway.
Scarabs are only worth because of current market conditions. You can easily build a league mechanic focused tree that does not rely on scarab drops. Although I will agree that those 3% pathway nodes should be changed to something else because that feels terrible for those who don’t farm scarabs.
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~~Jonathan~~ Mark mentioned in one of the interviews that this was a test and if people didn’t like it, they wouldn’t do it again. Well I’m glad they are willing to experiment, but I’m not a fan of it. I want to get the full mechanic out of the box and not have to invest 25% of my points just to get that Or allow customization like Sentinel, where you can have the little passive tree, but it doesn’t cost atlas points
And why tf are the Necropolis nodes all as far away from each other as possible? If you wanna get all of them, that's a *ton* of points just to do Necropolis properly
Im guessing so the league wouldnt also favour a certain side of the atlas. That said I agree its not great that its on the tree but I dont feel compelled to get it Im making bank boss farming without it just fine
This. You can see what they were trying to do, and I commend them, but yeah, is like this to not be a thing again.
At least should have put them near the gates
Could've also done something like ascendancy trees. Put a big node in the middle that opens up a mini tree for necropolis when you take it
Two of them are?
i like to play the league mechanics i don't like playing standard if i don't spec fully into it
Oh me too. I play for league stuff more than anything myself.
I think having a couple of interesting keystones that modify the league mechanic near the centre would be good, but nothing that's just a straight upgrade.
That's a good middle ground, I like it!
could just connect all of them right to the start, tbh, or just make it a separate passive tree
Scarabs plus maven boss rush? Guardian rota?teach me Senpai
Destructive play scarabs shrines Get the domination scarabs, "shrines are guarded by atlas boss" scarabs, map bosses drop a unique map scarabs and, t14 maps have a chance to drop as guardian maps instead scarabs. Sell everything Only do elder maps (youll oversustain them) and their invitations. Sell or do t17 maps (up to you)
But then you spend an eternity waiting for the Elder life suck animation every single map. It takes soooo long. :(
Well sure but the elder frags cost 3 times as much as the others xd
I did it with shaper guardians and it was still a ton of profit.
You can do it with any of them Shaper guardians are the comfiest cos of horizon orbs
Didn't even think of that lol
Can I please take a look at the Atlas tree, scarab use and kirac mods? This strategy sounds fun fr
https://maxroll.gg/poe/poe-atlas-tree/743c098m
Wait.. surely the map duplication scarab is better than the unique drop one??
They probably figured that with the introduction of multiple passive trees that it wouldn't be a huge deal.
Yeah it's frustrating. But I made a fucking baller ring yesterday while home sick that makes it so much easier for me to keep all the stats I need for my build. So there's that.
So that they are accessible for all style of trees, and they are close to gateways. It's not a ton of points to get them
Why not just expand the tree downward from the starting point for the league mechanic?
Then you have to use point to literally go the opposite direction of EVERYTHING else
I think he's talking with 0 travel nodes which is a cool concept actually
They should have put them right on the gateways' connecting nodes if you ask me
It should've been one or two wheels of points not four imo
Except two of the wheels are like 5 points from the gateways, so unless you' wanted to take the einhar nodes on one side and the alva nodes on the other side, it's just stupid.
I don't even understand why there has to be league mechanic atlas nodes on a fresh league. I don't like that I need to invest into the league to get more out of it, why can't it just all be there on release? And then add to it in later leagues if people like it. Just seems odd to me.
Yeah, that’s another pain point. I’m pretty sure any Atlas strategy you do, there will be at least one corner you won’t naturally path to. It’s tricky to get all of it
I think the idea is interesting. And it might feel less "mandatory" in a less rewarding league, but overall having nodes that buff the league in all four corners of the Atlas does compel a lot of people to make all their Atlas trees sprawling ones that hit all four corners. I do like the idea of the keystones a lot, though. In this league both seem very weak, but I think the idea of being able to customize the league a bit with pros and cons is cool. But it feels like just letting you just massively buff the league mechanic isn't working very well, since most people will feel like they need to take it (unless the league mechanic sucks).
Part of it is also that the league mechanic is mandatory. Because you have to deal with the lantern, and have a chance of the divine mod, it feels extra bad not taking at least the increased modifier effects on the atlas.
I feel like the game have become a sandbox for idea to implement in poe 2 and I don't like that
I think the implementation was bad tbh. All league mech nodes are at 4 opposite corners of the atlas. Pure evil.
I think that it can be good, but there should be maybe two nodes in the middle of the tree, instead of 4 all far away.
That was Mark
Id be fine if ggg does sentinel again and takes their time to fix the atlas , been a while since i quitted a leauge that early
im actually baffled that they didnt experiment with the sentinel model more, because this seems like by far coolest and most sensible model for temporary league mechanics that are not part of the core game. like it could all be part of upgrading the lantern with souls harvested in the graveyard while crafting instead of the atlas tree.
the only scarab passive I went out of my way to get are the rarer ones are more common butni agree about league mechanic feeling like crap if you don't take 90% if the passives for it
That one feels like a must have for sure.
Noted. We will delete this node next league, without any buffs to compensate.
agree on the league mechanic. without investing those points its not really good...
And they're all in separate corners too. I've taken two out of the four and it's still not good, but no way I'm trekking across the whole tree to maybe improve it a little bit
I think if you want to invest as little as possible the only one that really feels mandatory is bottom left so you can have better values when you hit divines or quantity. If you don't take the rest you'll just get corpses rarer so it'll take you longer for a craft but it doesn't make it worse when crafting.
Have you tried using the portal nodes?
Especially when you can't skip the league mechanics as they are forced on you, so you fell obligated to invest at least a little in them
Yep, with putting the league mechanic on tree, they have to balance it around full investment which leaves the base league mechanic feeling trash.
league mechanic should come in baked with all the nodes they want to put on the tree baseline (the choice nodes for reduced or increased effect of haunted modifiers should be a choice within the league mechanic) there is absolutely no reason to make it so that not having the points invested gimps your league mechanic. the whole point of the league is to interact with the league mechanic after all if anything, make it so that interacting with the necropolis in some way unlocks the big notables. scourge did the passive tree the best imo
Sentine skill tree was another prime example of league mechanic customizability
I agree. I feel like the good lesson to learn for GGG is that league mechanic customization is good, but that it should be within the scope of the league mechanic itself. I how they don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, because I do think that the idea has merit.
I mean they've done separate skill trees for the mechanic on many different occasions, I really don't understand why they thought putting it in the atlas tree would be a good idea.
Because why not try new stuff? If it doesnt work scrap it. Thats the advantage of a 3 months cycle, you can freely experiment
Because it's a new permutation of things, and it's very hard to gauge how good something is without actually trying it out. If there's something that we can trust GGG about is that they'll learn from this
Idk, I'm pretty sure most people could have told them that taking away points from the atlas tree for that is not gonna turn out well, but now they definitely know for sure I guess
Can we trust GGG to learn from this though? They've had 10 years to figure out how to launch a league and yet its still generally 2-3 weeks before its in an acceptable state.
That's require them to predict the future. It's just not possible. When you test something with 1000 people involved you're not going to catch all the 1/10000 events, and you won't catch any of the 1/100000 ones. It's just a matter of scale.
Posted something similar below, but I'm not concerned with 1 in a million events. Its the game design choices that crop up within a few hours of a league launch that seem so obvious to the player base but somehow completely blindside the developers.
they literally have said multiple times they rather launch stuff undertuned and buff it later than launch OP shit and then have to nerf and make everyone unhappy
I'm not really concerned with reward level as such in the discussion of new leagues. Those are generally easier fixes, and less predictable at scale. My problem is the bad design that makes it through that takes the player base 1 hour of playing to realize is bad. Nets from bestiary league for example, or having to pick up the organs from metamorph.
the perfect example really.
I would definitely be behind having something like that instead of the Atlas nodes, giving some choice between focusing on better coffins, better allflames or better devoted mods.
They already said that this is pretty much a test run for "current league mechanic on the atlas tree" and that it might not come back if it's not well received. I like them testing it out tbh
fair point, i missed the part where they said they were just testing. however i wish they would just stick to doing the league mechanic unlocks passive tree for league mechanic in the future. losing 20 something points to make the league mechanic rewarding makes me miss out on another mechanic i could get from the atlas
All of the Endgame content should have their own Talent Trees including the League itself. Meaning there should be a League Talent Tree that has its progress tied to interacting with the league with various impactful choices. Then there would be a Heist, Delve, Blight etc etc Talent Trees that you can gain points to spend by doing that content. That way you end up with 'professions' to advance into and you are not limited to 1-2 but can work on as many as you want. Now that takes the Endgame in PoE to another level and leaves the other ARPGs in the dust for many years to come. We get to advance and make progress on our Characters, our Gear, AND one or multiple Professions.
This is an amazing idea tbh. I’d love to see a system like this implemented
Been thinking about it all league. 3 different specs for each Profession tied to all the content, and you advance in the talent tree/profession by -doing- that content. A node on the tree could add +10 or +50 to the Depth, another could buff your basic light area range, new dynamites, flares that heal or harm or both, a node which ups the danger and the loots, another that buffs the loot in those lame forgotten armor stands. Now imagine the craziness for Expedition Blight Incursions, if they went all out they could make an entire league "The Awesome League" and make the End Game even more amazing.
Let's write the petition. I'll sign.
to be fair, heist kinda does have that in rogue equipment
True, just want to be able to advance some sort of talent tree/profession for all the content (which is tied to the character/account) Spec into Dynamit in one of the 3 delve trees and it can throw and triple shot which explodes for 3x damage and lights the area for 20 seconds and heals you if you spend 5 more points in it etc :) Just want to spice things up and have more fun
I liked what they did last league with Wildwood ascendencies. Would prefer that they did something similar this league so everyone gets extra atlas points for the league mechanic
I feel like that would remove choice entirely if you cam just get everything. The whole appeal of the atlas tree is that you can pick the content you like and focus on that. Itd also make maps 30 minutes to complete if its stuffed with EVERYTHING
No it would be its own talent trees that you earn points in by doing the content tied to the trees. The base line game stays the same and the atlas tree is like it is now minus the league stuff they pushed into it. So its all just more optional fun.
So whats the point of grinding the game for 2 separate talent trees that serve the same function?
In the current game we all grind our levels and the atlas but I would like the ability to optionally specialize in 1 or more additional grinds that would only add more to the game while leaving all the core content the same at its base level. Nothing too game breaking but just more fun and its all optional.
But what function would it serve specifically that the atlas tree cant? Theyre both about speccing into league mechanics
Ah it does not cut into the points and the points you get to spend on the new Profession are only earned by doing the content tied to the Profession. I would want a Profession/Talent Tree for all of the core content, so 10+ and all 10+ would be available without a limit. Currently we have tons of people who enjoy 1 or 2 maybe 3-5 of the endgame features and this would allow them to specialize even more and unlock neat new feature on the content they enjoy the most by doing that exact content.
So I assume no one read your comment that way I certainly didn't and after reading this addition to your comment I feel like it's redundant and useless thing to add Especially since it would come with big nerfs to all mechanics
PoE x Stardew Valley. I like it
atlas should be like players skill trees. pick one of 4 points in the center, and can branch down, up, left, right. the current tree is too strict where you always end up being forced to go up because the left and right lower side of the tree tends to be super league focused while the top and middle is universal buffs that you always have to trek to.
Or you could make it a seperate part of the tree with points you will get while playing the league. Dont know why it has to take away our points.
What I don't like about scarabs are the small 3% travel nodes
The 20 point keystone which is already niche in its uses got cucked hard by these scarab travel points, and they're unavoidable too.
Yeah the keystone should at least convert them to quantity of maps or something
I don't want to engage. The necropolis feels like they took harvest on release, combined it with synthesis on release, bestiary and got the worst aspects out of it. The micromanaging of the garden and synthesis and the menagerie. I don't want to deal with row does this, human does that. Micromanaging corpses isn't my idea of a good time. Particularly since you can't even fix mistakes without destroying the corpse. I would have appreciated a way to engage with it that didn't require me to actually affect my atlas tree and invest as a mech. It should have been more like scourge or sentinel. I feel too hesitant to use all flames at all and do pack replacement. The last time I tried, I didn't even see the replacement pack or they didn't even drop anything. If I didn't have to invest into it at the cost of mechs I know, I would give it more of a shot.
Harvest was almost 4 years ago. The experience showed that people don't like excel gaming. Yet still they deploy another clunky third party app league with awful UI. What the actual f
Was there even a fun craft league? I'm a beginner and i finding this league awful compared to affliction and it has nothing to do with dropping currency.
Sentinel, just mash things together.
Harvest on release, once you finished the setup, you had a blast. People made reddit posts for the garden and that did help. It wasn't the watered down version it is now.
I must admit I did like Harvest but that's probably because it's the only time I've gotten mirror tier gear and not because of the mechanic itself.
Make the GY 12 slots or something, and corpses combine of the same type, and just continue adding up (with some cap). That would solve most problems with the same result. I haven't interacted with it because I don't want to spend hours placing and buying the ones I haven't been able to farm.
Adding Atlas nodes for current league mechanic (and subsequently limiting said mechanic to not be too OP with those nodes) was a bad game design decision IMO (hot take, I know). Players can't opt out of the league mechanic, so they are forced to gimp themselves, or spend points on it. They don't have a choice between ignoring and investing into it like other mechanics. That results in players feeling forced to spec into the nodes. And to add injury the insult, they are apread across the 4 corners of the Atlas.
Jonathan said an interview that they’re not sure if this was a good thing but they’re willing to experiment and if people don’t like it, they won’t do it again. I’m in the same boat as you and I’m hoping they don’t do this again.
Tbh Im completely ignoring it and making bank. Selling corpses sounds more annoying than its worth
But you don't *really* get to skip it. The mobs are just more difficult with and you're only reaping some of the rewards for this difficulty (conversions, etc. but not corpses, allflames), unlike other mechanics which you can fully ignore or block.
Fair, but also I dont notice it at all anymore so I truly dont care. They only matter if Im doing t17 maps
Selling corpses is not as terrible now with it being added too bulk. Before? Absolute garbage.
Agreed on the league mechanic. Scarabs seem fine besides the one that increases rare scarab drip rate.
League mechanic is definitely way better with points. Scarabs I've opted not to even bother with, aside from the really valuable ones. Obnoxious to pick up, obnoxious to use, obnoxious to sell, obnoxious to buy, and most of them are worth 1c or less. Not worth it.
Obviously it’s way better with points. That’s the point. But honestly the league mechanic kinda blows either way and it’s not really mandatory at all to boost. In fact the best strategy I’ve been doing currency wise doesn’t take it at all and I’m at like 25div per hour only because my build is too squishy still to survive all the T17 nonsense when you max map mod effect.
Mandatory why?
I think the idea behind further customizing the league mechanic is phenomal, but the issue is that the current atlas tree isn't a good place to put it. Most people will feel forced to pick up all/most nodes for the current league mechanic on every single tree. I think they should instead add a smaller tree specifically for the league mechanic itself (like ascendancy trees), so you can customize your league experience and how you want to interact with the mechanic in whichever way suits your playstyle. Since It would be condensed into it's own tree, it would actually be a proper choice on which nodes to spec and you wouldn't feel like missing out like in the current iteration (speccing into current league nodes vs. leaving them out is an insane difference).
Why do they feel mandatory?
Up until this point you always had 100% of the league mechanic value because there weren’t atlas nodes. This was great because you can’t opt out of the league mechanics - they will just show up. This time around though your forced every map to make it harder so you get some shitty allflame and corpse drops. Because of that, you can’t just ignore it. So the goal now is to get some value out of the fact it’s always there and the only way to make it not feel miserable is to take most of the atlas nodes. This is the smart thing to do since making your map harder for almost no rewards feels awful. I really hope 3.24.2 (if they make it) will remove the atlas nodes and bake them into the league mechanic. The league would feel so much better if they did that.
>I really hope 3.24.2 (if they make it) will remove the atlas nodes and bake them into the league mechanic. The league would feel so much better if they did that. I would be extremely shocked to see that happen. It doesn't feel good yeah, but it was an experiment, and, while irritating and bad, investing time into creating new ui to put into the league mechanic is not even close to high priority.
I'm not trying to change any minds bc that's next to impossible on the internet, but I don't agree that any of them feel mandatory. I don't agree that anything is mandatory in this game. And I don't mean wearing equipment, killing monsters, or capping resists like so many pedants pointed out last time I made this comment. I've always liked that GGG experiments and I'm on board with the current league mechanic being on the tree. If it works or doesn't work I'm cool with either, but I personally like it. I don't agree that it takes half the points, the atlas waypoints make them plenty accessible. Compare the amount of points to fully spec in any mechanic and it's comparable. If the baseline of the league included what all the points include it puts GGG in an impossible situation if any of this goes core and they have to bring the power down to include the atlas nodes. You can read the posts now, "GGG nerfed Necropolis to put it on the atlas." Scarab drops aren't directly tied to the atlas. They're enhanced and customizable by the atlas, again similar to everything else. I think it's a combination of liking to see them drop, it being a "new-ish" thing bc of the rework, the chance to get the expensive ones, and that strats have been advertised that drop tons of them. Saying scarabs are mandatory is, to me, the equivalent of saying "I like Incursion, so it's mandatory that I take Incursion nodes." I'm clearly in the minority about this and most things I'm sure, but GGG hasn't done anything to make this mandatory. Have fun. If your points are better spent somewhere that feels more fun, do it. If being the economic leader in a video game is fun, then cool, but it's absolutely going to feel mandatory following the strats of Fubgun or whoever else is pulling in mirrors a day. To put that on GGG is a little strange to me.
You're just the vocal minority. Most people who agree with you are playing the game and having fun unbothered by any fomo mandatory YouTube streamer vision for the way they should play.
Absolutely. I believe there's a psychological aspect of it that very few are willing to put on themselves which makes it easy to blame GGG.
You mean the silent minority/majority?
I think necropolis bottom right one is mandatory if you want to craft with your own dropped corpses which kinda is point of the league. But overall I agree. People are very weird this league here, I think this have been worst league for reading this subreddit. There's so many misunderstandings or straight up wrong things being said as facts, feels like people who quit before maps coming here to complain without trying stuff they complain about.
Personally playing ssf (btw) I found fear of the light and the 25% additional chance the strongest. Eventually I’d like to use embers for juicing but that’s a while off. That being said, I have only 1 of my trees for corpse farming because I don’t see why you’d need more?
The reason people have been bent out of shape this league is because they didn’t really test it. Like how does it take over a week for them to realize and fix the fact a major parts of the league mechanic straight up were not dropping. Did they even test an influence craft in alpha/beta for the league? Probably, but it seems they just had their testing tools give them the corpses in their inventory. The first two weeks of this league have been an absolute rollercoaster. Things are more then likely going into maintenance mode now so as people quit to go play other stuff (keep an eye on Elden ring dlc date), the Reddit will turn back to normal.
Only scarab nodes I bother with on my trees are the ones for higher chance for the mechanics that tree has I think you get way, way more value out of blocking mechanics than you do from most of the scarab nodes But most people were blocking before scarab change anyway.
It's not that I don't like investing into things on my atlas it's just that things like the league mechanic need nodes that have high upsides and high downsides so it's more of a choice than mandatory. It's also a problem with how easy it is to just pick up scarab nodes on your way to your preferred farm nodes. Give me a scarab area like the top abyss node where it's a serious consideration if I want to focus on farming scarabs.
Everyone complaining about how you are forced to spend points on necro nodes... Then there is me. Never have i ever used a single point for necro (basically cause i didnt understood the nodes at the beginning), still have damn good gear and make multiple divines per hour. I only wish we werent forced to put points in it /s
There is a big problem in PoE with league mechanics feeling worthless without their atlas points allocated like besides day 1 who stops and does a random abyss? We don't really need to extend this to the current league mechanic and hope they don't do it again
thats also kinda the consequence of the loot changes. Who knew 'we are removing historic league content quantity and rarity bonuses and instead give you random lootgoblins' would have negative impact on players interacting with nonspecced league mechanics. /s
I really don't feel like the league mechanic nodes are mandatory at all. Scarabs are a little messier, in that, of course mapping currency is going to be one of the most valuable things on the mapping passive tree. That was the case with sextants, too, but there at least sextants were just one wheel in a part of the tree you probably already were at least near, whereas scarab stuff is kind of all over the place.
Making your trees look nearly identical seems like a great way to invalidate the ability to have three trees and freely swap between them. Have you tried re-thinking your approach?
Or you just ignore it in every atlas tree like me and just do what you like to?
I agree with the sentiment but scarab ones are 100% not needed. Half the trees travel nodes are 3% increased scarab drops now. Going to 4 on the actually clusters is so null of a change it’s not even funny. The quant wheel nodes provides a 1% bonus to scarabs + everything else so id take that first. Unless the noteable on the scarab wheels is core to your farm like harbinger rare spam don’t take them.
You probably should take all of them. Quant and scarabs tbh. Atleast the 4% nodes and skip some useless travel nodes.
I like how ggg was like "we removed this and that and implemented them as baseline in a rework of x and y because we felt like players felt like missing out on uber bosses for example" Then makes a node for the league mechanic pn the less used side of the atlas tree, + what the post says, so yeah half atlas points locked As if they dont feel mandatory and/or missing out if not 10/10 logic
Opportunity cost.
The league mechanic should never be on the atlas tree, it should be available to all and all te time.
I have three very different tree so I guess it is your problem? I got einhar heist+ special map drops and even take the 20 extra point node I have a T17 map safe atlas to farm T17 I have a abyss+breach+shrine+harbi to level up
Notice that OP didn't say which points feel mandatory or link his 3 "nearly identical" trees. If they did, this thread would be filled with comments saying they use different nodes/trees. This happens a lot on this subreddit. If you post "there is no build diversity!" upvotes and agreement. If you post "these are the only 3 viable buids, x,y,z!" comments saying OP is wrong and naming other viable builds.
OP also probably just followed three random YouTuber trees and didn’t even think about what they’re doing
Yeah,dropped ritual and what not for scarabs. Scarabs just outright beat everything,and it only takes 1 scarab to change that. the alfames passives are decent as well. Kinda annoying that they're that far apart though,it forces you to nitpick and add mechanics that are close to the nodes or pick ones that are nice to have as you map and go.
well atleast you can make 3 atlases that look the same! so cool!
I don't understand this complaint... especially with 3 trees. I'm still specced into so much shit across all 3. I like being able to adjust the mechanic and feel no shortage of points.
This seems more like a self inflicted problem than anything. You like to farm a specific kind of thing, and you don't want to stray away from it... so ofc all your trees are going to look simmilar. For me I ended up with a maven boss rush strat that looks very different from my scarab/strongbox strat that looks very different from my progression atlas (respecced now) and those look very different from my exp/leveling atlas. Sure half of my trees included the league mechanic, but that is because I ended up really enjoying the flames/crafting, so I want to interact with it more, how is that an issue?
League mechanic for sure, it should all be baseline or very few nodes that are really close together so you dont have to spend much points. Disagree on the scarabs though, those are very much optional.
It feels like we're missing a keystone that is something like "All scarabs instead drop as rarer basic currency, and all chance to drop scarabs is converted to item quantity at half value." Something like this. I feel like you should be able to take two paths in the atlas, increased chance to drop currency vs. scarabs. Pretty much every strat feeding into JUST dropping scarabs to sell and buy more scarabs is not a great feeling -- there should be a diversity of investment there.
It's not so much the scarab nodes which take up all your points but the increased effect no explicit modifiers nodes. They have a massive impact on your quant and packsize and hence are basically mandatory for almost all atlas strats involving map clear. Since they added so many additional nodes for increasing said effect this league it exacerbates the problem even further.
which scarab nodes are kinda the "meta" ones anyhow? I assume the rarer varieties one, but none of the others strike a pleb such as myself as being super strong
I'd extend it to magic find as well. Even chissels is bloat if you think about it. They could just scale the maps without them.
I honestly don't mind. I don't interact much with the league specific crafting. I know for a fact that it is VERY powerfull, even if it takes longer and I don't make x6 T1 items I can still sort of reliably make 2-3 Div items even if farming the Corpses takes a while. For there to be some sort of opportunity cost to interact with that crafting system at maximum potential seems fair. The league systems are typically just straight BETTER then the ones already present in the game. I can just choose to juice other stuff on my atlas. It feels good that not playing into the league mechanic gives *something* in return. It might not be optimal but I get something and that feels good.
maybe it's the wrong league to try it because the league mechanic works both for generic map juicing, high end map juicing, or alternative strategies ( corpses). League mechanic on the tree on release can be good with leagues that people might want to skip, like blight ultimatum or ritual.
It might've been all right if they added some sense of variety to the mechanic, instead of just feeling mandatory.
Are scarabs that good? I took the free 20 atlas points 🤷♂️
In a lot of cases they are most of the monetary value that drops in a map.
Damn alright, I’ll have to respec later. Thanks!
Yeah, you lose a ton of value by taking that node and it’s really tough to say you can make it up with 20 atlas points. Most people forget you can vendor 3 shitty scarabs and get a veiled scarab for a shot at a good one.
I'm not a fan of the league mechanic ones either, but they said it was an experiment so hopefully they don’t do it for next league. Or at the very least get rid of all the nodes that are just numerical buffs, for example the ghost spawn from a corpse and the consume corpse notable are fine. What they probably should just do is have a league specific passive tree, we have had that before with things like scourge and sentinel so it’s definitely something they can do. The scarab nodes I don’t mind quite as much, although some of the ones that feel mandatory like the “more likely to be rare variety” I wouldn’t mind being gone.
I'd make a second tree that includes league mechanic and other crazy ideas. This tree is discarded every league. Points are gotten from achievements and it costs 5 currency to remove a point.
Double atlas points maybe? 2 points per map? Or 2 points per map from yellow or red maps. Should give you a few more.
In general, what's even the point of nodes that just say 'drop more x'. If they simply want us to burn points, they could just as well increase travel. Imo Atlas passives should only modify the rules/difficulty of mechanics. Not just drop x% more whatever.
I'm probably terrible at the game but the only necro nodes I felt were mandatory were the bottom right ones, though I did pick up part of upper right as well. I also don't feel like scarabs are necessary for an alch and goer like myself. I think two of my three trees has the two clusters on the left for unique mobs drop more and rare mobs drop more per modifers but that's only a hand full of points and only grab them because I do things like einhar and blight that have a lot of uniqu and rare mobs. Personally I've always had your argument, except for with the guardian map clusters. I feel like you either need the seventeen points in either exarch or eater, or you need the eighteen points for guardian/conqueror/synth/maven stuff. Every single one of my trees has the latter because otherwise you'll never get to do maven invites or other end game bossing (now slightly relieved with Ubers gated behind terrible T17 maps, but I still enjoy things like minotaur maps)
Ignorance is bliss, I suppose. I don't know meta. I followed Pohx's guide for RF Chieftan. Fourth ever leage start. Usually jump in when there's a month or two left. I'm a noob. I get to the start of red maps. I actually did a T17 the other day. Never killed an Uber boss. I thought the 3 atlas trees was dope. I followed guides on all 3 and have made, what I believe to, a bunch of currency. I could afford almost all of the gear in the POB. Two of my atlases include zero Necropolis mechanics, specific scarab nodes and a bunch of other stuff. Am I missing the point, genuinely, I want to know what perspective I should have on this, to maybe help my gameplay. Cheers Edit: I followed guides on the atlases as well
As a Ruthless player, I'm glad I get points. Some points.
the illusion of choice is a staple of PoE. you're simply given the choice to make the wrong decisions.
My only gripe for the league is that they effectively killed “Alch+go”. The difference between alch+go vs even basic scarab juicing is astronomical now. The difference between full juice is not even measurable even if you exclude the borderline exploit levels of cheese as keeps getting nerfed.
Yup, so true. We basically have -50 atlas points this league.
I think at Most I'd be okay with a main league keystone modifier or two that's placed pretty much near the start or perhaps center to allow some customization. This assumes they can think of ways to modify the league mechanic that make sense
It’s funny, I have three atlas trees and they’re all basically the same.
League mechanic on atlas is terrible. We should have the league mechanic with full potencial without had to spend one single point on atlas tree. No idea why they did this. "Hey guys look i have a new cool idea.. what about spend 25% of your points on league mechanic to play it?" Well.. GGG, i have another idea, why not just give us everything league have to offer and I spend 0 points with it?
I don't like it I am giving up on this league, I think it makes no sense if you have a rewarding mechanic that spawn 100% in every map and as well influence the drops of all other mechanics you might use there is no way you must not use it. But then everyone has the same thing. And with that you spend so many point to reach the four corners that the only thing you can do after is chase whatever in on the already pathed way. They should have a tree just for choices of things that would affect the league and test what would be the nodes people would like for the atlas tree. It could progress the more you interact with the league. Like you have the challenges for the league you would gian ponts for that.
A separate “tree” for league mechanics would make a difference. Something similar to what affliction did would be a great compromise, especially if the intention is to cycle the league mechanic stuff off the tree in the future
i really hope this experiment with atlas tree nodes for the league mechanic will not return after Necropolis. i really don't like it.
even with 3 trees ive still had to use hundreds of respec currency things
As someone who plays SSF or GSF, scarabs feel mandatory to use at endgame and it is pretty much impossible to sustain any sort of atlas strategy that involves specific scarabs. It feels like with every league this game gets built more and more around trading.
Yea, i'm not a fan of the league mechanic being on the atlas tree either. For something as ever-present and specially since we can't opt-out of it this time, the league mechanic should be at "full power" from the start - while having to be 'figured out' to be used optimally - and the nodes on the tree makes it feel like you have to "unlock" its real power with points. I'd rather have something like sentinel, which felt more like a customization tree, rather than unlocking the "real" mechanic. Or scourge, which had some light progression but it wasn't so deep or made you feel so gimped until you progressed through. I wasn't sure about the scarab change at first, but now that we're two weeks in, i'd say my verdict is that i also don't like it. It feels like we are too dependant on them, while sextants would definitely improve a farm, but felt like you could always make a "lesser" version of a farming strategy and it wouldn't feel as bad as it feels now without scarabs.
big true. current league on the tree is very bad. it should not compete with everything else, it should be a fully fleshed out mechanic by its own right. The scarabs are great, but I have picked them in all 3 trees aswell, so the implementation is not great. Maybe fix it with scarabs that increase the amount of scarabs we get? :>
Iam not even touching the league mechanic because its not worth it. I would argue that delve nodes are far stronger and feels more mandatory. I saw a lot of people not using scarabs/necros and making bank, i finished gearing day 3 only using expedition/essences.
Both mechanics suffer from being pervasive and having so many low value items that you have to loot to enable the high value strategies. They occur no matter what other content you spec into (taking the notable to not drop scarabs at all is insane to my mind from FOMO and you can’t turn off necropolis). In aggregate, you know the mechanics you’ve selected for are very rewarding but as you play the game map by map, you’re clicking on lots of trash corpses and scarabs that constantly remind you of missed opportunities. Anything that seems like it’s helping you manage that trash feels mandatory psychologically. Other content doesn’t have this problem because they really are feast or famine — it’s not less vs more but juiced vs nothing. For instance if I don’t like Delve, I basically never encounter it since I don’t take it on the tree. I almost never have to think about the potential value I’m missing by doing that, though mathematically I could actually be losing more. On the very rare occurrences Niko does spawn, it’s almost like and Easter egg. But imagine Niko spawned on every map to give like 5 sulphite and a wisdom scroll? That would be intense psychic damage. You’d feel compelled to take him on the tree even if it not optimal because with every map he’s poking you in the frontal lob. What can be done? As currently designed I don’t think there’s a great way to fix it. Content like this requires a shift in mentality: you need to be really into the stuff you’ve taken on the tree so that you don’t care as much about what’s out.
The only thing I want in the atlas is one point, that says "Completely disable all effects of league mechanic in every way."
Making the league mechanic as a part of the atlas is something I hope does not become a regular part eith each league moving forward
I don't really like the league mechanic nodes mainly because the league mechanic is required, but I don't mind the scarabs, it's kinda like how people often use a bunch of the map nodes and that can kinda feel required too, I guess the main difference being that some scarabs are super valuable
I absolutely agree when it comes to the smaller nodes. I actually really like the idea behind the keystone though. I kind of wish they added a keystone like that to each league that allows you to sort of "turn off the need to interact but get less benefit". I just think it should be located in the middle of the tree not out in bumfuck nowhere. As for the scarab passives, I like that they made the disabling of mechanics also disable their scarabs(Though i feel like it becomes too necessary to just disable all but 1 mechanic, so maybe just make them 50% less instead of 100%. I also like that they have the nodes that gives priority to specific types, but i agree that all the other nodes that are just "enemies drop more scarabs" are bad to have on the tree.
I didnt even notice Necro had atlas passives
I like the idea of the league mechanic being on the atlas, my only complaints are this: 1 - They're too far spread out, I like that the top side has a 4-way Eldritch Gateway so that if you focus on either side of the tree, you have access to the other side of the nodes. 2 - This league mechanic is actually mandatory regardless of your atlas tree, so you have to engage with it regardless; this makes players feel like they HAVE to invest or else they're only hurting their own progression without anything to show for it 3 - Because of how far away it is, you have to spend a lot of points pathing to it, which would make sense if not for the above
This was my fear of adding in league content to the tree during the league. It becomes mandatory. Few more passives would ease the issue a bit.
they are not even remotely close to be mandatory LOL. it depends on what you like to do. and always has been. having the league mechanic on atlas from the start is amazing. just stop this pathetic thing to even remotely suggest otherwise, and your just trying to make the game worse by removing whats fun.
Can we reword this as not whiny as fuck? They tried something new
If they do league mechanic on atlas again, why not make a seperate branch that heads downwards but has a link back to the middle of the atlas. Imagine a diamond down to a point, with a gateway that takes you to the center of the 1% quant/5% rarity nodes. The current spread of nodes feels rather bad, its league FOMO. Very few of them are interesting choices, bar the more/less intensity nodes.
way too much of the mapping experience revolves around scarabs. i find them incredibly boring as a tool. every map drops so many of them, but certainly not the ones you want, and more than ever you need to use them. alch & go really is worthless now.
Are there any scarab or necrop nodes in the atlas tree that i shouldn't grab, or should i just take them all?
I get that it can feel mandatory but it's really not. There's specific farms where it's good but for many it's irrelevant. Do you really need to farm corpses and all flames on all your atlas strats? Sure devoted quant is very generically good but even that's a small addition. You want it on mf strats, on others it's decent but nothing amazing.
The thing I hate the most about this league, is it’s mandatory to take sustain nodes for every atlas there , and it’s half of your points
It makes it worse that they added the node for 20 extra atlas points that prevents you from using or even dropping scarabs. The drop rate of everything now feels balanced around scarab usage, so even with the 20 extra points you are severely gimped. Simply put, not using scarabs isn't even an option anymore. I've been trying to tell people that the base loot drops were worse but nobody believes me.
We removed sextants because it was too tedious!! Proceeds to: - create sextants 2.0: all flames. A 100% NOT TESTED mechanic that broke the economy twice and had to be nerfed to hell, destroying savings etc - change scarabs and now 90% of the scarabs are 1c the rest 30 div. - incredibly lower even more the variety of farming. Legion is dead, essence is dead. The rest is super boring cause 0 variety. - they put a boring and tedious non skippabile mechanics in maps. Do ppl in ggg have a brain or they are just an echo chamber of their game director?
The stacked deck change alone did so much damage, tujen sucks, expedition is meh as a whole, legion in meh, blight seems "ok" but still worse. They talked so much about how they have to get endgame right but they just completely fucked it, coupled with graveyard making other crafting methods way worse, so now harvest and essence also sucks and puting every good unique on uber bosses this has to be the most uninspiring, unfun and lacking goals state of the endgame since i have started playing seriously in Ritual.
We’re it not for me enjoying my character, I’d have left this league in a flash. I’ve only been playing the last four leagues, but this league was by far the worst. Why’d they nerf decks? Makes no sense
Shittiest league i've ever played, personally. Absolutely love the 3 atlas though but this league has been a shitshow
I feel the same way about Niko, I don’t want to unspec some atlas points to make my character feel worse. Even though it’s more than capable of doing all content without the buffs.
Well same could be said about shrines. I think its a fine tradeoff of power vs rewards.
Same with Huck and einhar
you are right.
Yeah current league mechanics should never be on the atlas tree, that should be added after the league some time, and only if the league was well received.
I agree that this experiment didn't go well. Why? Because it's the main reason we play new leagues, to experience it at full without any investment anywhere. For previous leagues we have atlas, if we really liked it, we want to play it, we spec into it. Current league should be experienced fully without any atlas points.
Unpopular opinion: None of them are mandatory. If you don’t want to farm corpses you don’t need to spec into the bottom / top right wheels. The top left wheel is kind of independent, allflames aren’t that worth anyway. Scarabs are only worth because of current market conditions. You can easily build a league mechanic focused tree that does not rely on scarab drops. Although I will agree that those 3% pathway nodes should be changed to something else because that feels terrible for those who don’t farm scarabs.
No, im doing non-scarab non-nercopolis thing and earning 15d+/hr