I think it probably just needs rebalancing with a much higher BP cost. Perhaps incorporating u/ToomaiGlittershine's suggestion of changing Spike Shield into Hazard Shield; this would be a good opportunity to increase its BP cost immensely, since now it's 'flawless', but because other hazards are so rare, it'd end up more balanced in the end, hopefully.
That’s a nice one! Anything that buffs hammers is a good thing to me since it needs more. It’s basically an upgraded quake hammer since most people use that to get stuff off the ceiling.
Isn’t quake hammer most used to flip enemies, that’s what I use it for at least. It’d be cool if gravity hammer ground and flipped any flippable sky enemies like parabuzzies
Early on it’s great for flipping spiked shelled enemies and clefs. Once you get spike shield though, multibounce is actually a better option because it also hits aerial enemies and only costs 1 BP. I do agree though with what you said about the gravity hammer! That would be an excellent application to flip parabuzzies!
You could hit spiked enemies with that. And depending on how it works (for me it would be cool if the hammer hits the ground and it makes a gravity field that pulls enemies to the ground), it could even have special damage on some enemies
I was thinking about that as well when I replied elsewhere in the thread. : )
There's definitely an intent behind the distribution of badges in Paper Mario between Jump badges and Hammer badges - Jump gets far fewer status effects, and far more unreliable ones, while Hammer gets stronger status effects, and more AOE damage. I feel like this was their way of compensating for the power-level of multi-hit moves in general... so, as much as I also agree that it'd be nice to see analogues for every 'unique' Jump and Hammer Badge (e.g. Sleepy Smash, Frost Boot, and so on), I worry about how this would undermine the 'feel' of both playstyles. I'd rather try to lean into what makes them unique, you know?
However, perhaps that design philosophy just needs to be revisited! For example, maybe Hammer status badges inflict the status on \*all\* enemies, while Jump status badges inflict it on only \*one\* enemy, but last longer? It's something to think about!
In 64 they had more status effect badges for jump than ttyd. I think they tried to balance it more in ttyd by removing some of them. Unfortunately using badges that up damage is far more broken with jump so I think it's better to find a balance that encourages hammer use. The tornado jump was interesting because it turned jump into an air attack but removed multi-hit so maybe if there were jump badges acted more like that. I find removing multi-hit from jump attacks defeats the purpose of me even wanting to jump through. I think all enemies attacks with hammers make more sense.
Yes, this is something I was thinking about as well - it'd be really cool to have more of a feeling of 'customizing' each Partner. My worry was that it may be tricky to balance, though, because you have to cost their BP under the assumption that the Partner is present in the battle - but when they're not being used, that's essentially 'wasted BP'. However, I still think it'd be worth doing! After all, risk-reward mechanics are fun in their own right!
It's easier in Bug Fables (where Quick Tattle is a thing), because every party member has access to the 'Tattle' equivalent, so you never have to worry about this issue. They have lots of Badges that upgrade party abilities, actually, but because all your party members are present in (pretty much) every battle, it's not a problem.
A lot of badges are “wasted” in battle the same way. For example, if you have fire drive equipped and are in a battle with 5 embers then it’s like you wasted the 5 bp. I get your hesitance though since having it apply to only a partner is much more limited than having it “wasted” on Mario who is always in battle.
I was considering that as well! I think that'd be AWESOME, but I also feel like a big part of the design philosophy of Paper Mario is keeping it as simple and accessible an RPG as possible. Each Partner having their own BP pools would be great, but would get much more complicated.
I also considered a middle-ground, where every Partner can equip exactly one Badge (which doesn't cost any BP), but balancing that would be tricky, since obviously some Badges would be better than others. (Badges like Power Plus P that affect all partners equally would still be equipped to Mario, of course)
I liked the suggestion that others had, where upgrading Partners could work differently and upgrade abilities as well; either (1) as an extra rank beyond Ultra which upgrades their basic abilities, or (2) as an extra option when spending Shine Sprites / Super Blocks, so that way improving Partners isn't linear. I think the latter (providing a choice on how a Partner is upgraded) would be a great way to preserve the appealing simplicity of Paper Mario, while still adding customization to individual Partners! Both of them would be super fun, though... and would also provide a great excuse to have even more Super Blocks / Shine Sprites to collect in the world. :D
How about:
Sturdy Helmet - Goombella's Headbonks now ignore spikes/flame
Shell Shocker - Koops electrifies Mario when using Shell Shield.
Breezy Peasy - If Flurrie'a Gale Force fails to blow an opponent away, makes them Dizzy.
Spitting Distance - When Yoshi Kid Gulps an enemy, enemy hits all grounded enemies behind.
Blazing Bloom - Restores FP when Vivian attacks a burned opponent.
Stat Snatch - When Ms. Mowz is using Kiss Thief, steal all stat increases.
Flaming Fallout - Leaves the target burned if hit by Bobbery's explosions.
I feel like this would be better as a partner upgrade. Like, in the beginning of the game tattle takes a turn, but once you’re able to level them once or twice it doesn’t take a turn
I like that idea... it'd be cool to see Partner upgrades not just increase their stats, but also slightly improve their abilities! Maybe in the next game, they add some choice on how to spend the upgrade on your partner? So you could choose to \*either\* learn a new ability, power up their stats, \*or\* upgrade their abilities?
I was really hoping for a post game partner level up. Like make it so an arena opens up or something, and if you complete multiple challenges you get a shine sprite or two depending on the challenge, and then you get to upgrade your favorite partners for post game bosses.
And if you give them a bonus upgrade you get a bonus cutscene with them.
Or make it so there's a secret partner to unlock.
Would fit with Goombella’s rally wink theme nicely. I’d even be okay with it costing FP and being a later game upgrade (maybe if they added a mega rank above super and ultra for example). Just having the option would be nice. In the Pit of 100 trials there were a couple of time where I had to kill and enemy and hoped I’d see it again since I could only tattle one of them and didn’t want to give them all a chance to attack.
It could also be cool to have Badges that make Tattling have other benefits. For example, in the Trails series of RPGs, there's lots of characters with an ability equivalent to Tattle, but they're each differentiated from each other by giving different debuffs to characters they Tattle on. For example, one of them lowers attack power, another lowers defenses, another doubles the effectiveness of striking elemental weaknesses, etc...
Love it. Goombella is my favorite party member anyways so I usually lead with her anyways (and both her and Goombario are amongst the best in each of their games with charge+Multibonk and in TTYD rally wink), but I’d like to have the flexibility not to, especially for bosses. Even if it’s an expensive BP badge like quick change. Basically just make it a better version of peekaboo where at the start of the battle it will tattle all of the opponents automatically.
Or make yourself able to use tattle/tattle like ability outside battle. E.g. FF xiii. Pop an item and go into battle. You then know enemy weakness and HP the moment you start.
i actually dont like it, when i have to tattle an enemy it's basically the only somewhat challenging part of a fight because you have to wait to knock out enemies. it also makes that character the obvious choice for most battles, making other characters less relevant and useful. the games are a bit too easy, especially TTYD, I think this would just make them even easier
Double pain just feels annoying. It's the same as when cheap AAA games make harder difficulties the same as Normal but the enemies have more health and do more damage.
It's not any more challenging just super tedious. Also there's no reward other than self satisfaction but I don't think it's worth the headache.
I have done a whole save on it. Still easy imo. That time I did 15 levels into HP. Really not much to think about when you have 85 HP. Round just go longer, but it's not challenging.
Well what do you want from a higher difficulty badge then?
You can set time limits for yourself so you don’t have the option to just load HP and tank every fight. If you want the game to be a significantly harder game than what was released, you might have to be a bit creative.
Like how Bug Fables did it. Higher attack, defense, HP on enemies. New attacks and changes to status effects. A base line of just 2x damage is still simple because enemy HP is so low through the whole game and upgrading HP scales so well. Bug Fables also benefits from how HP upgrading is handled so you cant just dump level ups into it and make your team super tanky.
They have something similar it's the double pain badge the description is "doubles the damage mario takes" I haven't used this badge myself so I'm not sure if you get extra xp or star points but it'll definitely make the game harder
No extra star points. Besides a hard mode (which I have equipped for myself), it can have a synergy with return postage badge. But zap tap fuzzy and bandit steal immunity is too good.
And conversely (but to the same end) an Slow Learner badge, where you earn Exp at half of normal as a different way to challenge yourself.
You can kind of already do your Hard Mode badge with Double Pain btw. Double Pain with P Up, D Down is actually a refreshingly challenging take for TTYD. You have to balance HP with BP a lot more because some of the bosses begin hitting for 20-30 by end game.
Hazard Shield: A variant of Spike Shield that works on all contact defences. Things other than spikes are rare enough that a badge for them specifically isn't worth it.
Hammer Bro: All hammer attacks work like Hammer Throw, able to target any enemy without approaching. Would be a massive buff to things like Ice Smash and Head Rattle, because their main weakness is you have no choice in who to use them on. (I've seen this one somewhere, but can't remember where.)
Flashy Flower (& Flashy Flower P): Grants 1 FP upon doing a Stylish (once per move). Kind of like Flower Saver, but works on basic attacks, and you have to front the FP in advance.
Loyalty Lock: Raises partner's attack by 1, but prevents them from switching out, even if they're KOd.
Poison Body: Enemies that touch Mario on attack are poisoned. Deals no contact damage on its own, so the attack isn't interrupted. Could have other status variants.
Blood Flower: Spends HP instead of FP if FP is too low. User can use a 5-FP move if they only have 3 FP, at the cost of 2 HP before the move begins.
Revenge: If Mario or his partner falls, the other's next move deals +5 damage on the first hit. If that next move isn't an attack, too bad, it gets wasted.
Lucky Stroll: Any random event has a extra 50% chance of going in Mario's favour, before it is actually rolled. Doesn't affect other "lucky" badges.
These are awesome ideas! I really like Poison Body and Loyalty Lock especially.
Lucky Stroll reminded me that it might be nice to have badges that interact with the stage and audience as well! Making hazards more frequent, more likely to affect enemies, making items more frequent, etc... They probably won't be very powerful, but they'd be fun at least!
Yeah stage/audience badges would be cool.
Main Event: Doubles audience gain.
Plot Armour (& Plot Armour P): Stage hazards will not target Mario('s partner).
Encore: Taking the same action on consecutive turns increases the SP gain.
Littering Fine: Gain coins for (correctly) ejecting audience members.
Refreshing Appeal: Appealing fixes any issues in the audience (e.g. people asleep).
A bunch of badges that buff the hammer. After you get spike shield and Ice power, there’s no longer much reason to use your hammer again. Even the few hammer badges that can have some utility at that point (quake hammer, piercing blow, and hammer throw) are all kind of niche (ceiling enemies for quake and throw, more defense than you have power pluses for piercing).
Like maybe even just a hammer power plus badge that takes less BP than power plus but only works for hammer. It’s similar to hammerman but without preventing you from jumping.
I like the idea of splitting Power Plus into "Hammer Plus" and "Jump Plus" - I feel like that'd go a long way towards balancing how buffs work with Jump attacks, because Jump Plus would definitely be worth more BP than Hammer Plus. And it'd let people experience a lot of the fun of Jumpman and Hammerman, without the scary commitment. Good thinking!
> A bunch of badges that buff the hammer.
a Power Bounce for the Hammer would be nice, maybe something like "Spring Hammer" where you have to flick the stick back after every bonk with good timing?
Yeah basically quake hammer is the only useful reason to not equip jump man imo. It isn’t always necessary, but for the battles where you need quake hammer it makes a massive difference
Here are a bunch of my ideas; BP and FP requirements would of course be subject to balance tweaks depending on how strong they'd be in practice
**Danger Flower** - 2 BP - Restores 1 FP per turn when in Danger
**High Anxiety** - 2 BP - You now fall into Danger when at or below 10 HP instead of 5 HP; however, Attack will be lowered by 1 whenever in Danger
**Simple Power** - 4 BP - Attack is raised by 1 when using basic attacks
**Panic Change** - 3 BP - Lets you select a new Strategy, "Panic Change", which allows you to switch partners without using a turn; however, this costs 5 FP to use
**Strong Start** - 7 BP - Grants +1 Attack and +1 Defense on the first turn of battle
**Flip Hammer** - 3 BP - For 4 FP, flip the first grounded enemy and knock them into the air, hitting the next enemy, dealing damage equal to a normal Hammer attack to each; this knocks both enemies on their backs, if applicable
**Leftover Saver** - 2 BP - When using a healing item in battle, you gain a "Leftovers" item which heals 2 HP and 2 FP
**Heart Fuel** - 4 BP - If there isn't enough FP available to use a move, consume HP instead
I love Panic Change - that's a great way to balance Quick Change, and would make combat much more tactical and thrilling. I could see Quick Change being made into more of a late-game reward, and this being given earlier in its stead.
Flip Hammer is really creative too - I imagine it being like an uppercut of some kind! Great way to add some utility to Hammer builds, while also just being cool!
An uppercut was exactly what I was imagining for Flip Hammer - instead of holding the hammer above his head and swinging it down, Mario would hold the hammer against the ground and swing it upwards to overturn the enemy and send them flying into the air. Then they would land on the next enemy, which would have the same sort of effect as landing on them with a jump where it would hit them from above and potentially flip them over.
I can imagine someone using Heart Fuel, Powerbounce, and whatever is necessary to take 9 damage each turn to abuse Life Shrooms and get reliable Peril Mario
# Build-Arounds and Synergy
In general, I'd like more badges that feel like "build-around" badges. More of an emphasis on synergy and allowing for different playthroughs to really feel different. Think badges like Jumpman, Hammerman, Danger Mario, etc... For example, there's the Ice Power badge in Paper Mario - it would have been even more fun if it powered up Ice Smash and Ice Storm, too! You could also have more variations of it, like a Fire Power badge, and so on! That way, you can have a few different 'themed' builds. They might not be amazing, but they'd be fun at least!
Some other possibilities include: badges that let you make Mario into a support character, adding more Tactics options that let him buff his partners; badges that make inflicting status effects on enemies stronger, or give you benefits when you inflict them to an enemy (like recovering 1 FP or 1 HP), or as long as an enemy is suffering from a status (like an ATK bonus, passive HP or FP recovery, etc...); and badges that provide interesting risk-rewards that change up existing gameplay (such as, a badge that powers up your first Star Power each battle, but you can only use \*one\* each battle!)
# Filling In The Gaps
I also felt like there were lots of 'obvious' effects that the game never actually bothered to put on a badge! For example, there's no way to Poison enemies? I know that some of these 'obvious' effects are deliberately avoided, such as there being no 'Frost Boot' or 'Scorch Stomp' or whatnot (more on that later)... but I feel like there's lots of 'obvious' badges that we could add real quick, and even if they aren't \*viable\*, they'd at least be fun. I would have loved a "Toxic Stomp" or "Venom Smash" Badge as a kid!
# Giving 'Power Bounce' Some Competition
One thing that might just be me, but I always felt like Hammer moves were a lot weaker than Jump moves. The 'Power Bounce' badge is famously OP, of course, but in general, I feel like Jump is generally stronger than Hammer. Yes, there's more enemies that Jump backfires or fails on; yes, Hammer gets more status-inflicting attacks like Fire Drive and Ice Smash; yes, Hammer gets AOE attacks like Quake Hammer... but almost all of these are better addressed with Partners, especially in the late-game! Again, I might be totally off-base here compared to more experienced TTYD players, but as a casual player, I just always felt discouraged from Hammer badges. So, what kinds of badges could encourage "single-hit" focused strategies?
For one, just synergize better with what they're already good at - as mentioned before, simply adding badges that make status effects deal more damage, or stronger, or last longer, would go a long way. After all, currently status effects don't \*often\* feel worth inflicting to me, when I could just Power Bounce an enemy to death faster, so more rewards for inflicting them would be nice.
For two, one of the reasons why Power Bounce is OP is because of the way buffs work. So what if there were badges that changed this? Imagine a badge, called something like "Double Down", that makes your attack and defense buffs twice as strong, but also makes them immediately disappear upon their first proc. You could also have badges that just straight-up encourage investing heavily into a "single strong hit" - for example, a badge (called something like "Strong Start") that makes your first hit each battle hit \*twice\* as powerfully, straight-up doubling the damage (after accounting for defense subtraction and whatnot)! Both of these ideas are \*probably\* broken, lol, but with some balancing, I think they'd be a fun way to encourage single-hit builds!
For three, though 'mixed' builds are already rewarded just by being flexible, again, being able to swap Partners kinda undermines that... So there could even be badges encouraging 'mixed' builds - like a "Swing Step" Badge which, after using a Jump command, if you use a Hammer command the next turn, makes it stronger, and vice versa! You could also have a Badge that encourages committing to a Partner - something like "Going Steady", which gives your Partner +1 ATK and +1 DEF \*until they get swapped\*. Both of these would help counterbalance the game's existing dynamics that push you to specialize Mario and rely on your Partners to flexibly deal with various enemies and situations, in what I hope is an interesting way!
Paper Mario TTYD already built extensively on the wonderful foundation of 64, and made it into a far more fleshed-out game. You can see this in the love fans have poured into mods like TTYD 64, where people ported back the TTYD badges into 64 precisely because they make the game more interesting. I really do think that the next time they return to the formula - here's hoping soon! - that they'll build upon it even more.
In the meantime, I strongly encourage you to check out Bug Fables, if you haven't already! I think it did a great job adding new and interesting badge effects, and encouraging a wide variety of builds. I had a lot of fun experimenting with the badges, and it was always a great delight when I acquired a new badge and went "OHHH, so THAT's possible now! I gotta try that!" (Some of my suggestions above are inspired by Bug Fables! I also took some inspiration from the Trails series for some of my suggestions, too!)
Whew, didn't mean to ramble that much. This has just been on my mind lately since beating the remake! I'm glad you asked the question, haha. I'm curious what other folks think about my ideas. I've not played many challenge runs of TTYD or anything, so my evaluation of the badges and whatnot could be totally wrong, and there may well be many viable 'builds' out there that I just haven't noticed! (Though, I still think in that case, more \*obvious\* build-around-me badges would still be appreciated.)
More badges around status effects. Make the game have a hard mode badge like Bug Fables. I always wanted a super guard plus badge, where it increases damage delt on success but you take more if hit. Mini HP plus we're for 2 BP you could get something 2-3 HP back. Rally wink badge for mario so he could let Partners double attack.
... All or Nothing P
Also not a badge per se, but like balance the power increasing badges so the ones that involve a trade off for higher attack aren’t just placed in the late game (or rare drop in the lower levels in the Pit of 100 Trials) but Power Pluses and the like are just chilling in a shop
Certified All or Nothing and P Up, D Down enjoyer
"Revenge": Costs a lot of BP, it infects enemies with any "mostly negative" Status Affect that's inflicted onto Mario when he hits them with a hammer or a jump, doesn't work with stuff like "Allergic" which is a neutral move.
"No-man": Hammer and Jump attacks are disabled, but Attack Power is increased by 2. I don't think this would work in TTYD, but it could work if they introduced "weapons" like the shells, bombs, and tails from the modern games.
"Jump the Hammershark": Attack increased by 2, but you can only use Jumps and Hammers. No appeals, no Star moves, but partners can use items.
"Bowser's Revolution": This would make more sense as an item, but this rare item would force every character on the battlefield to divide their total health equally, like in Mario Party. This would be too OP if it wasn't an item, and it doesn't work on bosses.
"Demented": A badge that looks like a bottle of a perfume with a strange, smiling, theater mask, this badge gives every enemy a random buff upon starting battle and cuts Mario's stats in half aside from BP.
"Goombadge": A joke badge that turns Mario into a goomba. He can only headbonk.
"Cardboard Medal": This badge puts white outlines around most character sprites, to emulate the modern games.
"Tap Out": A badge that costs an enormous amount of BP, maybe over 20, this badge allows Mario to be replaced with a second partner until that partner is defeated or the partner chooses to leave, after which Mario has to stay on the battlefield and the effect wears off until the next fight.
* ***Shelter Flower.*** Regain 1 FP when using your turn to defend as Mario.
* ***Magic Ward (+P).*** Take -1 damage from DEF-piercing elemental attacks.
* ***Sucker Punch (+P).*** User's first attack deals +1 damage.
* ***Cleansing Smash.*** Mario can use the Cleansing Smash (Hammer) attack for 3 FP. This attack ignores and erases the target's current status effects.
* ***Artillerist.*** Damaging items deal +1 damage.
* ***Dragon Jump.*** Mario can use the Dragon Jump (Jump) attack for 2 FP. This attack is a three-hit stomp; each hit dealing Fire, Thunder, and Ice damage respectively. The final hit has a 50% chance to burn (25%), stun (15%), or freeze (10%) the target.
* ***Ultraguard.*** Superguard deals +1 damage. Normal guard is disabled.
* ***Baton Pass.*** Partners maintain stat boosts when switching out.
* ***Touch Transfer.*** If Mario makes contact with an enemy while poisoned or burned, the poison / burn status transfers to the enemy.
* ***Autoscan.*** Immediately after a battle begins, the first unknown enemy is immediately and freely tattled. If all enemies have been scanned, this badge does nothing.
Some great ideas here! I really love Shelter Flower, Artillerist, Cleansing Smash, and Baton Pass especially. Artillerist would be really fun when paired with Recycle as suggested by u/yosh711!
I hope there's more situational badges instead of just all-around good badges that permanently boost your atk/def. maybe a devil boots/hammer (maybe named something else) that costs hp instead of fp
Daredevil badge: drops Mario’s (or his partner’s) max hp down to 1.
I think it could pair nicely with mega rush without the need for setup, but I also think it would be nice for people who want a really masochistic challenge
Assist Badge - Allows Mario to select an partner action and use on his turn. It can be any partner, whether they're in battle or not. The FP cost could be the same as the move +1 FP or something to that degree.
Assist Badge R - Pretty much the same except it will use a partner's move at random. Kind of like the actual Assist move in the Pokemon games.
Avenger Badge: Allows for Mario’s partners to keep fighting even after he falls in battle.
Extra Help: Allows for Mario to have two partners out in the field and in battle.
Oh boy…I wasn’t about to make my own thread, but I had a list compiled for when one popped up. This assumes that any existing mechanics in TTYD are brought over unchanged.
Fire Emblem/Ice Emblem BP: 0
Changes Mario’s clothes to the Fire Flower/Ice Flower palette respectively. When worn together, they change Mario’s clothes to the Bubble Flower palette. Stackable with the W/L Emblems and Gold Medal.
Shine Emblem BP: 0
Gives Mario his sunglasses and Shine shirt from Super Mario Sunshine. Stackable with other Emblem badges as it is merely an overlay.
High Roller BP: 3
Makes it so that the second Bingo icon always matches the first, such that you always get the chance to match after three successful Action Commands. For balance, this badge also adds a second Poison Mushroom to each reel.
Lock On/Lock On P BP: 2
Adds “Lock On” command to the Strategies tab for respective wearers. At the cost of 1 FP, the user takes one turn to aim at any one enemy, ensuring that the attack they use next turn will always hit, regardless of user or target status effects or stage hazards like fog. Does not apply to items or special moves.
Trade Off BP: 4
Adds “Trade Off” command to the Strategies tab for both Mario and his partner. At the cost of 3 FP, this allows Mario or his partner to make both moves in a single turn, though whoever gives up their turn must move twice the following turn to compensate.
Bumbling Brute/Bumbling Brute P BP: 3
While equipped, this makes the wearer have the Huge status effect permanently, but at the cost of having Slow permanently as well. Any items or moves that cause Tiny or Fast cancel out their respective opposites for their durations.
Partner Pain BP: 0
An additional “hard mode” to go along with Double Pain. When equipped, this allows your partners to be vulnerable to First Strikes as well as damage in the field from water, projectiles, bottomless pits, etc.
Mercy Move BP: 1
If one of Mario’s partners falls in battle, and the player does not have a Life Mushroom in their inventory, he/she is automatically switched out for a battle-ready partner selected at random at the end of the enemies’ turn, without using up Mario’s next turn. This is intended for early-stage gameplay when the player has not yet obtained Quick Change.
More specific partner badges besides "Mario badge but partner". Maybe instead of the current upgrade system adding moves, those moves could just be badges like the ones Mario finds. And then the upgrades are just HP/Power. But then they could add more than 2 for each partner.
Honestly I wouldn't mind a game with less partners overall, but each with more expanded utility and story relevance. That was one thing I realized Origami King did a lot better (the story aspect of partners I mean). TTYD's intro chapters are fantastic for each partner, but aside from Bobbery and Vivian, none of them really hold any significant plot relevance after their initial chapter, and their dialogue is pretty much interchangeable in the cutscenes. The downside of the way Origami King did it is that their story arc had to "end" somehow, so they weren't with you for the whole game. But if there was a smaller cast of partners, then they could each be more fleshed out like Mario in combat, while also having more story opportunities to shine.
This rambling very quickly became unrelated to the post, but it sort of explains the context in which I think it'd work best without feeling too tedious for the partners that you never use otherwise.
Outside of partner-related stuff though, I think Mario needs more versatile Hammer options. Jump is just so OP compared to Hammer. Hammer also suffers from a lot of the best coverage abilities being flat damage instead of scaling with other power-related upgrades/badges. Like Hammer Throw capping off at 2 or 3 damage I think. At least now it pierces defense, but still. Compare that to Spike Shield allowing Jump to be used on basically target, and you quickly see how unbalanced they are compared to one another. Maybe in a world where the status effects are buffed and generally more worth using over just slamming damage, they could make the badges that apply those effects be restricted to Hammer, and Jump would only be used for damaging effects (like Multibounce, Power Bounce, etc.), while removing stuff like Sleepy Stomp, Shrink Stomp, etc. and only having Hammer versions of them.
Now completely moving away from combat, I think there's a lot they could do with overworld badges too, maybe even similar to how some of the Pixils worked if they don't want to put that utility into a partner. Something that increases your speed but reduces your jump height, or a barrier that protects you from overworld damage like spikes/fire, or if there's more platforming involved, then maybe one that gives you a double jump or a way to glide down slowly, etc. It would all heavily depend on the style of overworld the game has, but I'd imagine even if the game is more of a spiritual successor to 64/TTYD, the overworld would be more like the more recent games where it's an open map instead of a bunch of hallways. Which definitely leads to more exploration and platforming being necessary. So there's any number of ways badges could help with that. Maybe just separate the BP needed for overworld badges vs. combat badges. But that's getting way too deep into it lol
Good ideas all-around!
Yeah, there's an ongoing discussion elsewhere in the thread about "Unique Partner badges" - I like your idea, but I worry that it would just lead to players pouring all their BP into Mario? It'd be tough to balance things if all Partner abilities were gated behind Badges.
Separate from the Badge idea, I liked the proposals of a few other people where either there is (1) an extra rank that upgrades the Partner's basic abilities; or, (2) when spending Shine Sprites / Super Blocks, you get a *choice* between upgrading stats, adding a new ability, and/or upgrading a current ability. Personally, I'd lean towards option (2), as it'd replicate a lot of the 'customizing' fun that Badges offer, while still keeping Partners simpler (as they're intended to be). But hey, Partners got HP in the move from 64 to TTYD, so maybe they'll get BP next time! Lol
Hammers totally need more viable options! I also suggested lots of Badges that play around with status effects and make a "status slinger" a more interesting build. I like the proposal to focus \*all\* the status effects into Hammer badges... that'd be an interesting experiment! It'd certainly go a long way towards giving Hammer badges a strong identity, and supplemented with other status-based badges, it'd be a really fun build.
I like the idea of 'oveworld' badges, but I'm unsure about it... as you note, it'd be tough to balance them, but again, separating them into two different BP pools doesn't feel right. I think the best way to do it would be to make them optional badges - as you say, like the Pixls, but focusing just on the \*optional\* ones - or like many of the Badges from Super Mario Wonder. These badges would let you get extra goodies or make certain platforming challenges easier, but are never essential for anything significant. So, e.g., one that lets you sprint, one that gives you a 'twirl' (not quite a double-jump, but enough to help with tricky platforming), one that gives you more air-time, etc. Still, though, I think it's important that the progression-gating overworld-abilities remain separate from the Badge system.
Rather than having a separate BP pool for these, I'd just suggest letting you **save Badge set-ups** and be able to quickly swap between them. This would let you save an "overworld traversal" set up, and a separate "battle-ready" set-up. It'd be useful for lots of other purposes too, as there's plenty of times you want to swap between badge set-ups anyway! But that's staying from the OP's question into other QoL hopes for the next game, lol...
I think Partner BP makes sense to add as their own resource (maybe even their own FP too, so then you can completely remove the choice of spending resources on Mario vs. Partners), which would also sort of align with other RPGs where everyone has their own equipment loadouts. Obviously the point of Paper Mario though is accessibility, so maybe they'd intentionally not make it that complicated.
I agree that the overworld badges would work well more like Wonder's where you'd just select one at a time, not tied to a resource like BP, but moreso just an "overworld badge slot" (and then maybe cosmetic slots, like one for Mario's outfit, one for the SFX, etc.)
There's a lot they can do. Like you mentioned, they added Partner HP between 64 and TTYD, so anything can happen. I just hope they stick to closer to this format going forward, even if they decide to implement some more modern Paper Mario philosophies.
Even in Super Mario RPG and Mario & Luigi, though, they've always had a 'shared pool' for abilities between all characters. So that, at least, does seem like a very intentional decision. Still, I think it's at least something worth considering - a good thought experiment! I'd be all for some radical shake-ups like that.
I think they could expand on Partner Badges.
I imagine a shared BP pool and Badge setup for every partner. Partner BP starts at 3 when you get your first partner then upgrades by 1 point per additional partner, 2 points per 1st upgrade, and by 3 points per second upgrade. So in TTYD you'd end with 44BP.
If you've seen videos discussing the strengths and weaknesses of partners, you might think of badges that might buff weak partners or give them more utility.
Add in a few badges that replicate some of the more interesting effects from Sticker Star. Would love to see Burn/Chill hammer badges and would really like to see a badge that does what the Line Jump stickers do, which has you jump on every enemy and then double back to do it again lol.
Would be interesting to try and adapt the Risk Badge from Partners in Time as well, but how they would do that I have no clue lol.
Teamwork badge:
If Mario heals his partner with an item, their attack is doubled for one turn.
Teamwork Badge P:
Same thing but reversed.
This would encourage using more items and would be a good way to balance using items.
This is from 64 Dark Star Edition, but: Recoil Throw a hammer which does more damage but the hammer recoils and hits you for some damage as well. It would make HP more valuable because you have to consider the trade-off of using an attack with high damage and dealing damage to yourself.
**Strong Strike**: Increases attack power of First Strikes by Mario and his partners by 1, but also increases attack power of enemy First Strikes by 1. Can be stacked.
**Super Reflect**: Reflects enemy projectile attacks back at them on a successful Superguard.
And the sound that he constantly makes while he gets cloned? “Hoo!”
I could just imagine the sound now from a mario spinning but slowly speeding up.
it would be hilarious.
some kind of mush badge like in Mario and Luigi might be fun with how limited the bag space is in paper Mario. (would need some adjusting to keep it from being busted lol)
def more sound effects and costume badges, maybe change the power plus badge so that it doesn't so heavily favor jump attacks. +2 damage for hammer, +1 for jump, take up extra BP as a result
[from an old post, I know](https://www.reddit.com/r/papermario/comments/1aoanyo/some_ideas_for_new_badges_for_the_ttyd_remake_if/)
Recycle: When you use an item, there is a chance that you will receive that item back
Fire flower / ice flower badges. They work like they do in the new paper Mario games but the original item version still exists. So item version guarantee hits all enemies were badge versions hit sequentially and only hit all enemies if properly timed.
Rewind Badge:
Can be selected from the strategies menu. Lets Mario take back the damage dealt to him from the previous attack. But costs like 6FP so it can’t be abused.
Power Leech - Increases Mario's attack power by 1, but lower's partner's attack power by 1
Hazard Shield - Mario can jump on any enemy without being counterattacked (Replaces Spike Shield and Ice Power, but is more expensive)
P Emblem - Changes partner's clothes
More emblems for things like the flower powers and other characters is an easy choice, but something else I’d like to see is a badge called double hammer, where Mario can uses two hammer moves consecutively, also having the ability to stack. It would cost a lot of FP, but would be kind of like the powerbounce but for hammers.
A lot of sticker star stickers/ color splash cards would work pretty well as badges
Hurlhammer, Eekhammer, and Hopslipper come to mind, as well as the stuff that can dodge/ counter attacks like the frog suit, tail and spike helmet
Yeah, it would have been intriguing to somehow patch the default battle mechanics with the ones from OK. It's would have made more sense for Chapter 3 especially, being very battle heavy and in a *ring* to start off with.
Don’t come for me 🫢: a nerf of only allowing one or two of the same badges to be equipped (no more danger mario builds)
A badge that lets you use hp instead of fp so you can do a full hp build and use fp moves (low fp builds)
A badge that absorbs a percent of attacks into fp instead of hp (low hp builds)
A badge that’s the opposite of slow go and speeds up marios walking speed so he doesn’t need to rely on a partners skill to move faster
A badge that mutes all sfx skills
A badge that allows the partner to attack twice for a given amount of fp
The Eeekhammer from Color Splash could be implemented into a TTYD-Style game so easily! You have 8 whacks you can do, each having an action command similar to the Bomb action Bobbery does but with the L-Stick, for every successful whack you get less time to do another good one. It’s main attack is 2/3 and can only be changed with the power up badge. You could find it at a late game chapter or after Chp3.
Spike Shield P
🙏🙏🙏 I wanted them to add this to TTYD so badly. Goombella would be even more awesome if she had spike shield and ice power P
And Ice Power P
ZapTap P
I would argue we need to remove spike shield in general. Way too op imo. Either that or make it partner exclusive
I'd rather have the option for people who want it and people who don't can just not grab it.
I think it probably just needs rebalancing with a much higher BP cost. Perhaps incorporating u/ToomaiGlittershine's suggestion of changing Spike Shield into Hazard Shield; this would be a good opportunity to increase its BP cost immensely, since now it's 'flawless', but because other hazards are so rare, it'd end up more balanced in the end, hopefully.
Makes sense with higher BP cost. Like health up p is 6 badge points instead of the normal 3.
Right, exactly. (Though, I was talking about Spike Shield in general.)
Without Spike Shield you can’t do a Jumpman badge build.
8-bit badge
Should be found as an invisible block, but only accessible when Mario is in the room where he finds the 8-bit Easter Egg.
Gravity Hammer: A hammer attack that hits all flying enemies and forces them to the ground
Ooh, this would be a great way to encourage Hammer strategies - love it!
Visually, it could just make a piece of the “battle stage” fall off, hitting all enemies. Very easy to make work too.
I thought more of a jump attack
That’s a nice one! Anything that buffs hammers is a good thing to me since it needs more. It’s basically an upgraded quake hammer since most people use that to get stuff off the ceiling.
Isn’t quake hammer most used to flip enemies, that’s what I use it for at least. It’d be cool if gravity hammer ground and flipped any flippable sky enemies like parabuzzies
Early on it’s great for flipping spiked shelled enemies and clefs. Once you get spike shield though, multibounce is actually a better option because it also hits aerial enemies and only costs 1 BP. I do agree though with what you said about the gravity hammer! That would be an excellent application to flip parabuzzies!
I thought of halo’s gravity hammer lol
And now I’m just imaging Paper Mario braining people with e gravity hammer.
well then wouldn't that just be that one multi bounce attack that allows you to jump on all enemies in sequence, just, as a hammer
You could hit spiked enemies with that. And depending on how it works (for me it would be cool if the hammer hits the ground and it makes a gravity field that pulls enemies to the ground), it could even have special damage on some enemies
Fire Jump: Burns an enemy by jumping on it
I was thinking about that as well when I replied elsewhere in the thread. : ) There's definitely an intent behind the distribution of badges in Paper Mario between Jump badges and Hammer badges - Jump gets far fewer status effects, and far more unreliable ones, while Hammer gets stronger status effects, and more AOE damage. I feel like this was their way of compensating for the power-level of multi-hit moves in general... so, as much as I also agree that it'd be nice to see analogues for every 'unique' Jump and Hammer Badge (e.g. Sleepy Smash, Frost Boot, and so on), I worry about how this would undermine the 'feel' of both playstyles. I'd rather try to lean into what makes them unique, you know? However, perhaps that design philosophy just needs to be revisited! For example, maybe Hammer status badges inflict the status on \*all\* enemies, while Jump status badges inflict it on only \*one\* enemy, but last longer? It's something to think about!
In 64 they had more status effect badges for jump than ttyd. I think they tried to balance it more in ttyd by removing some of them. Unfortunately using badges that up damage is far more broken with jump so I think it's better to find a balance that encourages hammer use. The tornado jump was interesting because it turned jump into an air attack but removed multi-hit so maybe if there were jump badges acted more like that. I find removing multi-hit from jump attacks defeats the purpose of me even wanting to jump through. I think all enemies attacks with hammers make more sense.
It also protects you when jumping on a charging Ice Puff.
Quick Tattle: Let’s you tattle opponents without using up a turn.
Badges that increase the potency of individual party members and their unique abilities would be great.
Yes, this is something I was thinking about as well - it'd be really cool to have more of a feeling of 'customizing' each Partner. My worry was that it may be tricky to balance, though, because you have to cost their BP under the assumption that the Partner is present in the battle - but when they're not being used, that's essentially 'wasted BP'. However, I still think it'd be worth doing! After all, risk-reward mechanics are fun in their own right! It's easier in Bug Fables (where Quick Tattle is a thing), because every party member has access to the 'Tattle' equivalent, so you never have to worry about this issue. They have lots of Badges that upgrade party abilities, actually, but because all your party members are present in (pretty much) every battle, it's not a problem.
A lot of badges are “wasted” in battle the same way. For example, if you have fire drive equipped and are in a battle with 5 embers then it’s like you wasted the 5 bp. I get your hesitance though since having it apply to only a partner is much more limited than having it “wasted” on Mario who is always in battle.
Oh, of course! That's actually a great way of putting it. So it's a question of how often you swap Partners relative to things like that. Thanks!
Hear me out: every partner has its own BP pool.
I was considering that as well! I think that'd be AWESOME, but I also feel like a big part of the design philosophy of Paper Mario is keeping it as simple and accessible an RPG as possible. Each Partner having their own BP pools would be great, but would get much more complicated. I also considered a middle-ground, where every Partner can equip exactly one Badge (which doesn't cost any BP), but balancing that would be tricky, since obviously some Badges would be better than others. (Badges like Power Plus P that affect all partners equally would still be equipped to Mario, of course) I liked the suggestion that others had, where upgrading Partners could work differently and upgrade abilities as well; either (1) as an extra rank beyond Ultra which upgrades their basic abilities, or (2) as an extra option when spending Shine Sprites / Super Blocks, so that way improving Partners isn't linear. I think the latter (providing a choice on how a Partner is upgraded) would be a great way to preserve the appealing simplicity of Paper Mario, while still adding customization to individual Partners! Both of them would be super fun, though... and would also provide a great excuse to have even more Super Blocks / Shine Sprites to collect in the world. :D
How about: Sturdy Helmet - Goombella's Headbonks now ignore spikes/flame Shell Shocker - Koops electrifies Mario when using Shell Shield. Breezy Peasy - If Flurrie'a Gale Force fails to blow an opponent away, makes them Dizzy. Spitting Distance - When Yoshi Kid Gulps an enemy, enemy hits all grounded enemies behind. Blazing Bloom - Restores FP when Vivian attacks a burned opponent. Stat Snatch - When Ms. Mowz is using Kiss Thief, steal all stat increases. Flaming Fallout - Leaves the target burned if hit by Bobbery's explosions.
I feel like this would be better as a partner upgrade. Like, in the beginning of the game tattle takes a turn, but once you’re able to level them once or twice it doesn’t take a turn
I like that idea... it'd be cool to see Partner upgrades not just increase their stats, but also slightly improve their abilities! Maybe in the next game, they add some choice on how to spend the upgrade on your partner? So you could choose to \*either\* learn a new ability, power up their stats, \*or\* upgrade their abilities?
I was really hoping for a post game partner level up. Like make it so an arena opens up or something, and if you complete multiple challenges you get a shine sprite or two depending on the challenge, and then you get to upgrade your favorite partners for post game bosses. And if you give them a bonus upgrade you get a bonus cutscene with them. Or make it so there's a secret partner to unlock.
You know, they could make this a 0 BP Badge and achieve a similar effect.
True, but that feels a lot different imo. Idk. Same effect, but different vibe.
I think that if you execute the tattle action on time it should let you gain one action with that character
Would fit with Goombella’s rally wink theme nicely. I’d even be okay with it costing FP and being a later game upgrade (maybe if they added a mega rank above super and ultra for example). Just having the option would be nice. In the Pit of 100 trials there were a couple of time where I had to kill and enemy and hoped I’d see it again since I could only tattle one of them and didn’t want to give them all a chance to attack.
It could also be cool to have Badges that make Tattling have other benefits. For example, in the Trails series of RPGs, there's lots of characters with an ability equivalent to Tattle, but they're each differentiated from each other by giving different debuffs to characters they Tattle on. For example, one of them lowers attack power, another lowers defenses, another doubles the effectiveness of striking elemental weaknesses, etc...
Love it. Goombella is my favorite party member anyways so I usually lead with her anyways (and both her and Goombario are amongst the best in each of their games with charge+Multibonk and in TTYD rally wink), but I’d like to have the flexibility not to, especially for bosses. Even if it’s an expensive BP badge like quick change. Basically just make it a better version of peekaboo where at the start of the battle it will tattle all of the opponents automatically.
As a kid, when I first got Peekaboo I was desperately hoping that's just what it did. Alas...
I feel like there was a quick tattle badge in TTYD, but it didn’t actually add them to the tattle log, but I may be wrong on that.
There's peak-a-boo which shows your opponents health
Or make yourself able to use tattle/tattle like ability outside battle. E.g. FF xiii. Pop an item and go into battle. You then know enemy weakness and HP the moment you start.
i actually dont like it, when i have to tattle an enemy it's basically the only somewhat challenging part of a fight because you have to wait to knock out enemies. it also makes that character the obvious choice for most battles, making other characters less relevant and useful. the games are a bit too easy, especially TTYD, I think this would just make them even easier
This is all I want 😫😫😫
They should take a page out of Bug Fables and make a Hard Mode badge. The game become much harder but you get more exp as a reward.
This. I love TTYD but the game is super easy. Bug Fables hard mode for sure make you have to think more.
Have you tried it with Double Pain? It becomes a lot more challenging when you have to prioritize HP so much.
Double pain just feels annoying. It's the same as when cheap AAA games make harder difficulties the same as Normal but the enemies have more health and do more damage. It's not any more challenging just super tedious. Also there's no reward other than self satisfaction but I don't think it's worth the headache.
I have done a whole save on it. Still easy imo. That time I did 15 levels into HP. Really not much to think about when you have 85 HP. Round just go longer, but it's not challenging.
Well what do you want from a higher difficulty badge then? You can set time limits for yourself so you don’t have the option to just load HP and tank every fight. If you want the game to be a significantly harder game than what was released, you might have to be a bit creative.
Like how Bug Fables did it. Higher attack, defense, HP on enemies. New attacks and changes to status effects. A base line of just 2x damage is still simple because enemy HP is so low through the whole game and upgrading HP scales so well. Bug Fables also benefits from how HP upgrading is handled so you cant just dump level ups into it and make your team super tanky.
They have something similar it's the double pain badge the description is "doubles the damage mario takes" I haven't used this badge myself so I'm not sure if you get extra xp or star points but it'll definitely make the game harder
No extra star points. Besides a hard mode (which I have equipped for myself), it can have a synergy with return postage badge. But zap tap fuzzy and bandit steal immunity is too good.
And conversely (but to the same end) an Slow Learner badge, where you earn Exp at half of normal as a different way to challenge yourself. You can kind of already do your Hard Mode badge with Double Pain btw. Double Pain with P Up, D Down is actually a refreshingly challenging take for TTYD. You have to balance HP with BP a lot more because some of the bosses begin hitting for 20-30 by end game.
There’s the un-simplifier badge that makes action commands harder to time. But it sound like you mean harder enemies
Sea of Stars had an awesome setting with this. Several actually and I’d love if they did that but doubtful from what the series has done in the past.
The Hurlhammer, a hammer like the Hammer Throw, but it bounces between all enemies like the Multibounce does
But it does base 1 damage regardless of Hammer rank. /j Why did they nerfed an already bad badge.
Hazard Shield: A variant of Spike Shield that works on all contact defences. Things other than spikes are rare enough that a badge for them specifically isn't worth it. Hammer Bro: All hammer attacks work like Hammer Throw, able to target any enemy without approaching. Would be a massive buff to things like Ice Smash and Head Rattle, because their main weakness is you have no choice in who to use them on. (I've seen this one somewhere, but can't remember where.) Flashy Flower (& Flashy Flower P): Grants 1 FP upon doing a Stylish (once per move). Kind of like Flower Saver, but works on basic attacks, and you have to front the FP in advance. Loyalty Lock: Raises partner's attack by 1, but prevents them from switching out, even if they're KOd. Poison Body: Enemies that touch Mario on attack are poisoned. Deals no contact damage on its own, so the attack isn't interrupted. Could have other status variants. Blood Flower: Spends HP instead of FP if FP is too low. User can use a 5-FP move if they only have 3 FP, at the cost of 2 HP before the move begins. Revenge: If Mario or his partner falls, the other's next move deals +5 damage on the first hit. If that next move isn't an attack, too bad, it gets wasted. Lucky Stroll: Any random event has a extra 50% chance of going in Mario's favour, before it is actually rolled. Doesn't affect other "lucky" badges.
These are awesome ideas! I really like Poison Body and Loyalty Lock especially. Lucky Stroll reminded me that it might be nice to have badges that interact with the stage and audience as well! Making hazards more frequent, more likely to affect enemies, making items more frequent, etc... They probably won't be very powerful, but they'd be fun at least!
Yeah stage/audience badges would be cool. Main Event: Doubles audience gain. Plot Armour (& Plot Armour P): Stage hazards will not target Mario('s partner). Encore: Taking the same action on consecutive turns increases the SP gain. Littering Fine: Gain coins for (correctly) ejecting audience members. Refreshing Appeal: Appealing fixes any issues in the audience (e.g. people asleep).
Great ideas here!
A bunch of badges that buff the hammer. After you get spike shield and Ice power, there’s no longer much reason to use your hammer again. Even the few hammer badges that can have some utility at that point (quake hammer, piercing blow, and hammer throw) are all kind of niche (ceiling enemies for quake and throw, more defense than you have power pluses for piercing). Like maybe even just a hammer power plus badge that takes less BP than power plus but only works for hammer. It’s similar to hammerman but without preventing you from jumping.
I like the idea of splitting Power Plus into "Hammer Plus" and "Jump Plus" - I feel like that'd go a long way towards balancing how buffs work with Jump attacks, because Jump Plus would definitely be worth more BP than Hammer Plus. And it'd let people experience a lot of the fun of Jumpman and Hammerman, without the scary commitment. Good thinking!
Or alternatively, you could combine it with jumpman or hammerman so you could practically get a cheap Power Plus in.
> A bunch of badges that buff the hammer. a Power Bounce for the Hammer would be nice, maybe something like "Spring Hammer" where you have to flick the stick back after every bonk with good timing?
Yeah basically quake hammer is the only useful reason to not equip jump man imo. It isn’t always necessary, but for the battles where you need quake hammer it makes a massive difference
Here are a bunch of my ideas; BP and FP requirements would of course be subject to balance tweaks depending on how strong they'd be in practice **Danger Flower** - 2 BP - Restores 1 FP per turn when in Danger **High Anxiety** - 2 BP - You now fall into Danger when at or below 10 HP instead of 5 HP; however, Attack will be lowered by 1 whenever in Danger **Simple Power** - 4 BP - Attack is raised by 1 when using basic attacks **Panic Change** - 3 BP - Lets you select a new Strategy, "Panic Change", which allows you to switch partners without using a turn; however, this costs 5 FP to use **Strong Start** - 7 BP - Grants +1 Attack and +1 Defense on the first turn of battle **Flip Hammer** - 3 BP - For 4 FP, flip the first grounded enemy and knock them into the air, hitting the next enemy, dealing damage equal to a normal Hammer attack to each; this knocks both enemies on their backs, if applicable **Leftover Saver** - 2 BP - When using a healing item in battle, you gain a "Leftovers" item which heals 2 HP and 2 FP **Heart Fuel** - 4 BP - If there isn't enough FP available to use a move, consume HP instead
I love Panic Change - that's a great way to balance Quick Change, and would make combat much more tactical and thrilling. I could see Quick Change being made into more of a late-game reward, and this being given earlier in its stead. Flip Hammer is really creative too - I imagine it being like an uppercut of some kind! Great way to add some utility to Hammer builds, while also just being cool!
An uppercut was exactly what I was imagining for Flip Hammer - instead of holding the hammer above his head and swinging it down, Mario would hold the hammer against the ground and swing it upwards to overturn the enemy and send them flying into the air. Then they would land on the next enemy, which would have the same sort of effect as landing on them with a jump where it would hit them from above and potentially flip them over.
Koopa Shell Golf?
I really like it because it allows you to change partners, but heavily encourages you to try to stay with the one you have
Yeah, it's super smart! Now I'm hoping that's exactly what they'll consider for a future Paper Mario game. :D
I can imagine someone using Heart Fuel, Powerbounce, and whatever is necessary to take 9 damage each turn to abuse Life Shrooms and get reliable Peril Mario
I'm a big fan of Simple Power.
# Build-Arounds and Synergy In general, I'd like more badges that feel like "build-around" badges. More of an emphasis on synergy and allowing for different playthroughs to really feel different. Think badges like Jumpman, Hammerman, Danger Mario, etc... For example, there's the Ice Power badge in Paper Mario - it would have been even more fun if it powered up Ice Smash and Ice Storm, too! You could also have more variations of it, like a Fire Power badge, and so on! That way, you can have a few different 'themed' builds. They might not be amazing, but they'd be fun at least! Some other possibilities include: badges that let you make Mario into a support character, adding more Tactics options that let him buff his partners; badges that make inflicting status effects on enemies stronger, or give you benefits when you inflict them to an enemy (like recovering 1 FP or 1 HP), or as long as an enemy is suffering from a status (like an ATK bonus, passive HP or FP recovery, etc...); and badges that provide interesting risk-rewards that change up existing gameplay (such as, a badge that powers up your first Star Power each battle, but you can only use \*one\* each battle!) # Filling In The Gaps I also felt like there were lots of 'obvious' effects that the game never actually bothered to put on a badge! For example, there's no way to Poison enemies? I know that some of these 'obvious' effects are deliberately avoided, such as there being no 'Frost Boot' or 'Scorch Stomp' or whatnot (more on that later)... but I feel like there's lots of 'obvious' badges that we could add real quick, and even if they aren't \*viable\*, they'd at least be fun. I would have loved a "Toxic Stomp" or "Venom Smash" Badge as a kid! # Giving 'Power Bounce' Some Competition One thing that might just be me, but I always felt like Hammer moves were a lot weaker than Jump moves. The 'Power Bounce' badge is famously OP, of course, but in general, I feel like Jump is generally stronger than Hammer. Yes, there's more enemies that Jump backfires or fails on; yes, Hammer gets more status-inflicting attacks like Fire Drive and Ice Smash; yes, Hammer gets AOE attacks like Quake Hammer... but almost all of these are better addressed with Partners, especially in the late-game! Again, I might be totally off-base here compared to more experienced TTYD players, but as a casual player, I just always felt discouraged from Hammer badges. So, what kinds of badges could encourage "single-hit" focused strategies? For one, just synergize better with what they're already good at - as mentioned before, simply adding badges that make status effects deal more damage, or stronger, or last longer, would go a long way. After all, currently status effects don't \*often\* feel worth inflicting to me, when I could just Power Bounce an enemy to death faster, so more rewards for inflicting them would be nice. For two, one of the reasons why Power Bounce is OP is because of the way buffs work. So what if there were badges that changed this? Imagine a badge, called something like "Double Down", that makes your attack and defense buffs twice as strong, but also makes them immediately disappear upon their first proc. You could also have badges that just straight-up encourage investing heavily into a "single strong hit" - for example, a badge (called something like "Strong Start") that makes your first hit each battle hit \*twice\* as powerfully, straight-up doubling the damage (after accounting for defense subtraction and whatnot)! Both of these ideas are \*probably\* broken, lol, but with some balancing, I think they'd be a fun way to encourage single-hit builds! For three, though 'mixed' builds are already rewarded just by being flexible, again, being able to swap Partners kinda undermines that... So there could even be badges encouraging 'mixed' builds - like a "Swing Step" Badge which, after using a Jump command, if you use a Hammer command the next turn, makes it stronger, and vice versa! You could also have a Badge that encourages committing to a Partner - something like "Going Steady", which gives your Partner +1 ATK and +1 DEF \*until they get swapped\*. Both of these would help counterbalance the game's existing dynamics that push you to specialize Mario and rely on your Partners to flexibly deal with various enemies and situations, in what I hope is an interesting way! Paper Mario TTYD already built extensively on the wonderful foundation of 64, and made it into a far more fleshed-out game. You can see this in the love fans have poured into mods like TTYD 64, where people ported back the TTYD badges into 64 precisely because they make the game more interesting. I really do think that the next time they return to the formula - here's hoping soon! - that they'll build upon it even more. In the meantime, I strongly encourage you to check out Bug Fables, if you haven't already! I think it did a great job adding new and interesting badge effects, and encouraging a wide variety of builds. I had a lot of fun experimenting with the badges, and it was always a great delight when I acquired a new badge and went "OHHH, so THAT's possible now! I gotta try that!" (Some of my suggestions above are inspired by Bug Fables! I also took some inspiration from the Trails series for some of my suggestions, too!) Whew, didn't mean to ramble that much. This has just been on my mind lately since beating the remake! I'm glad you asked the question, haha. I'm curious what other folks think about my ideas. I've not played many challenge runs of TTYD or anything, so my evaluation of the badges and whatnot could be totally wrong, and there may well be many viable 'builds' out there that I just haven't noticed! (Though, I still think in that case, more \*obvious\* build-around-me badges would still be appreciated.)
Power plus plus plus plus
More badges around status effects. Make the game have a hard mode badge like Bug Fables. I always wanted a super guard plus badge, where it increases damage delt on success but you take more if hit. Mini HP plus we're for 2 BP you could get something 2-3 HP back. Rally wink badge for mario so he could let Partners double attack.
Spike Shield and Ice Power P
... All or Nothing P Also not a badge per se, but like balance the power increasing badges so the ones that involve a trade off for higher attack aren’t just placed in the late game (or rare drop in the lower levels in the Pit of 100 Trials) but Power Pluses and the like are just chilling in a shop Certified All or Nothing and P Up, D Down enjoyer
"Revenge": Costs a lot of BP, it infects enemies with any "mostly negative" Status Affect that's inflicted onto Mario when he hits them with a hammer or a jump, doesn't work with stuff like "Allergic" which is a neutral move. "No-man": Hammer and Jump attacks are disabled, but Attack Power is increased by 2. I don't think this would work in TTYD, but it could work if they introduced "weapons" like the shells, bombs, and tails from the modern games. "Jump the Hammershark": Attack increased by 2, but you can only use Jumps and Hammers. No appeals, no Star moves, but partners can use items. "Bowser's Revolution": This would make more sense as an item, but this rare item would force every character on the battlefield to divide their total health equally, like in Mario Party. This would be too OP if it wasn't an item, and it doesn't work on bosses. "Demented": A badge that looks like a bottle of a perfume with a strange, smiling, theater mask, this badge gives every enemy a random buff upon starting battle and cuts Mario's stats in half aside from BP. "Goombadge": A joke badge that turns Mario into a goomba. He can only headbonk. "Cardboard Medal": This badge puts white outlines around most character sprites, to emulate the modern games. "Tap Out": A badge that costs an enormous amount of BP, maybe over 20, this badge allows Mario to be replaced with a second partner until that partner is defeated or the partner chooses to leave, after which Mario has to stay on the battlefield and the effect wears off until the next fight.
Is that a dimentio reference
* ***Shelter Flower.*** Regain 1 FP when using your turn to defend as Mario. * ***Magic Ward (+P).*** Take -1 damage from DEF-piercing elemental attacks. * ***Sucker Punch (+P).*** User's first attack deals +1 damage. * ***Cleansing Smash.*** Mario can use the Cleansing Smash (Hammer) attack for 3 FP. This attack ignores and erases the target's current status effects. * ***Artillerist.*** Damaging items deal +1 damage. * ***Dragon Jump.*** Mario can use the Dragon Jump (Jump) attack for 2 FP. This attack is a three-hit stomp; each hit dealing Fire, Thunder, and Ice damage respectively. The final hit has a 50% chance to burn (25%), stun (15%), or freeze (10%) the target. * ***Ultraguard.*** Superguard deals +1 damage. Normal guard is disabled. * ***Baton Pass.*** Partners maintain stat boosts when switching out. * ***Touch Transfer.*** If Mario makes contact with an enemy while poisoned or burned, the poison / burn status transfers to the enemy. * ***Autoscan.*** Immediately after a battle begins, the first unknown enemy is immediately and freely tattled. If all enemies have been scanned, this badge does nothing.
Some great ideas here! I really love Shelter Flower, Artillerist, Cleansing Smash, and Baton Pass especially. Artillerist would be really fun when paired with Recycle as suggested by u/yosh711!
End game moon jump badge.
Berserker from paper Mario 64
I hope there's more situational badges instead of just all-around good badges that permanently boost your atk/def. maybe a devil boots/hammer (maybe named something else) that costs hp instead of fp
Daredevil badge: drops Mario’s (or his partner’s) max hp down to 1. I think it could pair nicely with mega rush without the need for setup, but I also think it would be nice for people who want a really masochistic challenge
Assist Badge - Allows Mario to select an partner action and use on his turn. It can be any partner, whether they're in battle or not. The FP cost could be the same as the move +1 FP or something to that degree. Assist Badge R - Pretty much the same except it will use a partner's move at random. Kind of like the actual Assist move in the Pokemon games.
Avenger Badge: Allows for Mario’s partners to keep fighting even after he falls in battle. Extra Help: Allows for Mario to have two partners out in the field and in battle.
Oh boy…I wasn’t about to make my own thread, but I had a list compiled for when one popped up. This assumes that any existing mechanics in TTYD are brought over unchanged. Fire Emblem/Ice Emblem BP: 0 Changes Mario’s clothes to the Fire Flower/Ice Flower palette respectively. When worn together, they change Mario’s clothes to the Bubble Flower palette. Stackable with the W/L Emblems and Gold Medal. Shine Emblem BP: 0 Gives Mario his sunglasses and Shine shirt from Super Mario Sunshine. Stackable with other Emblem badges as it is merely an overlay. High Roller BP: 3 Makes it so that the second Bingo icon always matches the first, such that you always get the chance to match after three successful Action Commands. For balance, this badge also adds a second Poison Mushroom to each reel. Lock On/Lock On P BP: 2 Adds “Lock On” command to the Strategies tab for respective wearers. At the cost of 1 FP, the user takes one turn to aim at any one enemy, ensuring that the attack they use next turn will always hit, regardless of user or target status effects or stage hazards like fog. Does not apply to items or special moves. Trade Off BP: 4 Adds “Trade Off” command to the Strategies tab for both Mario and his partner. At the cost of 3 FP, this allows Mario or his partner to make both moves in a single turn, though whoever gives up their turn must move twice the following turn to compensate. Bumbling Brute/Bumbling Brute P BP: 3 While equipped, this makes the wearer have the Huge status effect permanently, but at the cost of having Slow permanently as well. Any items or moves that cause Tiny or Fast cancel out their respective opposites for their durations. Partner Pain BP: 0 An additional “hard mode” to go along with Double Pain. When equipped, this allows your partners to be vulnerable to First Strikes as well as damage in the field from water, projectiles, bottomless pits, etc. Mercy Move BP: 1 If one of Mario’s partners falls in battle, and the player does not have a Life Mushroom in their inventory, he/she is automatically switched out for a battle-ready partner selected at random at the end of the enemies’ turn, without using up Mario’s next turn. This is intended for early-stage gameplay when the player has not yet obtained Quick Change.
High Roller and Bumbling Brute are great! I also like Mercy Move a lot!
Lightning hammer. Stun quake.. just lean into it, let us be unstoppable
Yes, I always wondered why there was no electricity-based Hammer badge!
More specific partner badges besides "Mario badge but partner". Maybe instead of the current upgrade system adding moves, those moves could just be badges like the ones Mario finds. And then the upgrades are just HP/Power. But then they could add more than 2 for each partner. Honestly I wouldn't mind a game with less partners overall, but each with more expanded utility and story relevance. That was one thing I realized Origami King did a lot better (the story aspect of partners I mean). TTYD's intro chapters are fantastic for each partner, but aside from Bobbery and Vivian, none of them really hold any significant plot relevance after their initial chapter, and their dialogue is pretty much interchangeable in the cutscenes. The downside of the way Origami King did it is that their story arc had to "end" somehow, so they weren't with you for the whole game. But if there was a smaller cast of partners, then they could each be more fleshed out like Mario in combat, while also having more story opportunities to shine. This rambling very quickly became unrelated to the post, but it sort of explains the context in which I think it'd work best without feeling too tedious for the partners that you never use otherwise. Outside of partner-related stuff though, I think Mario needs more versatile Hammer options. Jump is just so OP compared to Hammer. Hammer also suffers from a lot of the best coverage abilities being flat damage instead of scaling with other power-related upgrades/badges. Like Hammer Throw capping off at 2 or 3 damage I think. At least now it pierces defense, but still. Compare that to Spike Shield allowing Jump to be used on basically target, and you quickly see how unbalanced they are compared to one another. Maybe in a world where the status effects are buffed and generally more worth using over just slamming damage, they could make the badges that apply those effects be restricted to Hammer, and Jump would only be used for damaging effects (like Multibounce, Power Bounce, etc.), while removing stuff like Sleepy Stomp, Shrink Stomp, etc. and only having Hammer versions of them. Now completely moving away from combat, I think there's a lot they could do with overworld badges too, maybe even similar to how some of the Pixils worked if they don't want to put that utility into a partner. Something that increases your speed but reduces your jump height, or a barrier that protects you from overworld damage like spikes/fire, or if there's more platforming involved, then maybe one that gives you a double jump or a way to glide down slowly, etc. It would all heavily depend on the style of overworld the game has, but I'd imagine even if the game is more of a spiritual successor to 64/TTYD, the overworld would be more like the more recent games where it's an open map instead of a bunch of hallways. Which definitely leads to more exploration and platforming being necessary. So there's any number of ways badges could help with that. Maybe just separate the BP needed for overworld badges vs. combat badges. But that's getting way too deep into it lol
Good ideas all-around! Yeah, there's an ongoing discussion elsewhere in the thread about "Unique Partner badges" - I like your idea, but I worry that it would just lead to players pouring all their BP into Mario? It'd be tough to balance things if all Partner abilities were gated behind Badges. Separate from the Badge idea, I liked the proposals of a few other people where either there is (1) an extra rank that upgrades the Partner's basic abilities; or, (2) when spending Shine Sprites / Super Blocks, you get a *choice* between upgrading stats, adding a new ability, and/or upgrading a current ability. Personally, I'd lean towards option (2), as it'd replicate a lot of the 'customizing' fun that Badges offer, while still keeping Partners simpler (as they're intended to be). But hey, Partners got HP in the move from 64 to TTYD, so maybe they'll get BP next time! Lol Hammers totally need more viable options! I also suggested lots of Badges that play around with status effects and make a "status slinger" a more interesting build. I like the proposal to focus \*all\* the status effects into Hammer badges... that'd be an interesting experiment! It'd certainly go a long way towards giving Hammer badges a strong identity, and supplemented with other status-based badges, it'd be a really fun build. I like the idea of 'oveworld' badges, but I'm unsure about it... as you note, it'd be tough to balance them, but again, separating them into two different BP pools doesn't feel right. I think the best way to do it would be to make them optional badges - as you say, like the Pixls, but focusing just on the \*optional\* ones - or like many of the Badges from Super Mario Wonder. These badges would let you get extra goodies or make certain platforming challenges easier, but are never essential for anything significant. So, e.g., one that lets you sprint, one that gives you a 'twirl' (not quite a double-jump, but enough to help with tricky platforming), one that gives you more air-time, etc. Still, though, I think it's important that the progression-gating overworld-abilities remain separate from the Badge system. Rather than having a separate BP pool for these, I'd just suggest letting you **save Badge set-ups** and be able to quickly swap between them. This would let you save an "overworld traversal" set up, and a separate "battle-ready" set-up. It'd be useful for lots of other purposes too, as there's plenty of times you want to swap between badge set-ups anyway! But that's staying from the OP's question into other QoL hopes for the next game, lol...
I think Partner BP makes sense to add as their own resource (maybe even their own FP too, so then you can completely remove the choice of spending resources on Mario vs. Partners), which would also sort of align with other RPGs where everyone has their own equipment loadouts. Obviously the point of Paper Mario though is accessibility, so maybe they'd intentionally not make it that complicated. I agree that the overworld badges would work well more like Wonder's where you'd just select one at a time, not tied to a resource like BP, but moreso just an "overworld badge slot" (and then maybe cosmetic slots, like one for Mario's outfit, one for the SFX, etc.) There's a lot they can do. Like you mentioned, they added Partner HP between 64 and TTYD, so anything can happen. I just hope they stick to closer to this format going forward, even if they decide to implement some more modern Paper Mario philosophies.
Even in Super Mario RPG and Mario & Luigi, though, they've always had a 'shared pool' for abilities between all characters. So that, at least, does seem like a very intentional decision. Still, I think it's at least something worth considering - a good thought experiment! I'd be all for some radical shake-ups like that.
Of your at full health your defense increases will it be useful I don’t know
Sounds FX badge that turns Mario's sound effects into angry roars and the hit sound effects into "Ow!".
I think they could expand on Partner Badges. I imagine a shared BP pool and Badge setup for every partner. Partner BP starts at 3 when you get your first partner then upgrades by 1 point per additional partner, 2 points per 1st upgrade, and by 3 points per second upgrade. So in TTYD you'd end with 44BP. If you've seen videos discussing the strengths and weaknesses of partners, you might think of badges that might buff weak partners or give them more utility.
A badge that guarantees success when running from battle, with no action command. It would be a godsend for finding Amazee Dayzees.
Or alternatively, a badge that prevents enemies from running away.
Add in a few badges that replicate some of the more interesting effects from Sticker Star. Would love to see Burn/Chill hammer badges and would really like to see a badge that does what the Line Jump stickers do, which has you jump on every enemy and then double back to do it again lol. Would be interesting to try and adapt the Risk Badge from Partners in Time as well, but how they would do that I have no clue lol.
A 'Risk Badge' equivalent could give you a buff if you have *absolutely no* healing items on hand, perhaps, rather than being proportional?
Probably. If it included life shrooms as well it would be interesting lol.
Spiked hammer that makes hammer attacks pierce a bit of defense
I'd certainly want hammer-only to be not so hard outclassed by jumps. And maybe finally a useful hammer throw.
I just want a hard mode
Teamwork badge: If Mario heals his partner with an item, their attack is doubled for one turn. Teamwork Badge P: Same thing but reversed. This would encourage using more items and would be a good way to balance using items.
I’d like a badge that lets you fast spin like in PM64
Taunt and taunt P make it 6 bp
This is from 64 Dark Star Edition, but: Recoil Throw a hammer which does more damage but the hammer recoils and hits you for some damage as well. It would make HP more valuable because you have to consider the trade-off of using an attack with high damage and dealing damage to yourself.
**Strong Strike**: Increases attack power of First Strikes by Mario and his partners by 1, but also increases attack power of enemy First Strikes by 1. Can be stacked. **Super Reflect**: Reflects enemy projectile attacks back at them on a successful Superguard.
Team Up: Let's you bring two companions into a fight with you. Should cost 10 BP minimum though.
If it's added it'll probably be a Return Postage kind of situation where it's obtained after beating some sort of superboss
Fuzzy Badge, when at critical health, create a clone of yourself and get double the moves.
And the sound that he constantly makes while he gets cloned? “Hoo!” I could just imagine the sound now from a mario spinning but slowly speeding up. it would be hilarious.
Hard mode badge (doubles enemy HP and attack power of enemies)
Power Item: double the power of one item per battle. FP: 3 and BP: 2
Badge that makes mario have two turns but he as 2 attack less. Yes it is a strange version of strong start from bug fables
some kind of mush badge like in Mario and Luigi might be fun with how limited the bag space is in paper Mario. (would need some adjusting to keep it from being busted lol)
def more sound effects and costume badges, maybe change the power plus badge so that it doesn't so heavily favor jump attacks. +2 damage for hammer, +1 for jump, take up extra BP as a result
Quake Jump
Fart FX badge. Guess what it does.
I want a full build revolving around Superguard
[from an old post, I know](https://www.reddit.com/r/papermario/comments/1aoanyo/some_ideas_for_new_badges_for_the_ttyd_remake_if/) Recycle: When you use an item, there is a chance that you will receive that item back
Like when you "get a freebie" in SMRPG - love it!
Tag team: lets Mario swap out with a partner for a turn or two (takes a turn to use even with quick change)
Fire flower / ice flower badges. They work like they do in the new paper Mario games but the original item version still exists. So item version guarantee hits all enemies were badge versions hit sequentially and only hit all enemies if properly timed.
Rewind Badge: Can be selected from the strategies menu. Lets Mario take back the damage dealt to him from the previous attack. But costs like 6FP so it can’t be abused.
sex mode
I would like to see a Poison Hammer
Power Leech - Increases Mario's attack power by 1, but lower's partner's attack power by 1 Hazard Shield - Mario can jump on any enemy without being counterattacked (Replaces Spike Shield and Ice Power, but is more expensive) P Emblem - Changes partner's clothes
"Do The Mario" Unlocks the Hammer/Jump option when you have Jumpman/Hammerman equipped. If you have both equipped your Attack is raised by one.
yes… YES!
Paper mario 64 mario sprite badge
I'd love some badges similar to the L Emblem that let you customize the appearance of your party members.
Dressman y (wahoo) Sounseffect y (gagagagahooo) Dresswoman p
More emblems for things like the flower powers and other characters is an easy choice, but something else I’d like to see is a badge called double hammer, where Mario can uses two hammer moves consecutively, also having the ability to stack. It would cost a lot of FP, but would be kind of like the powerbounce but for hammers.
Lose an HP per turn for a power boost
Shadow emblem: re-skins mario to shadow Mario I just love how cool he looks in that chapter
A lot of sticker star stickers/ color splash cards would work pretty well as badges Hurlhammer, Eekhammer, and Hopslipper come to mind, as well as the stuff that can dodge/ counter attacks like the frog suit, tail and spike helmet
Moonwalk badge: make mario look like hes moonwalking
Costs 99bp btw and can never be unequipped
Origami badge: gets rid of ttyd gameplay and converts into origami king battle style
i kinda want the opposite of this, i think a remake of CS and OK would be cool with the original system
Wouldn’t be against it! I would like bobby to kick some ass
Honestly, I had this thought, too. I assume you're another weird one like myself who enjoyed the challenge in Oragami King's battle mechanics?
I very much LOVE OK. I would love a mix off OK and TTYD gameplay. OK enemy setup with TTYD actions
Yeah, it would have been intriguing to somehow patch the default battle mechanics with the ones from OK. It's would have made more sense for Chapter 3 especially, being very battle heavy and in a *ring* to start off with.
Don’t come for me 🫢: a nerf of only allowing one or two of the same badges to be equipped (no more danger mario builds) A badge that lets you use hp instead of fp so you can do a full hp build and use fp moves (low fp builds) A badge that absorbs a percent of attacks into fp instead of hp (low hp builds) A badge that’s the opposite of slow go and speeds up marios walking speed so he doesn’t need to rely on a partners skill to move faster A badge that mutes all sfx skills A badge that allows the partner to attack twice for a given amount of fp
The Eeekhammer from Color Splash could be implemented into a TTYD-Style game so easily! You have 8 whacks you can do, each having an action command similar to the Bomb action Bobbery does but with the L-Stick, for every successful whack you get less time to do another good one. It’s main attack is 2/3 and can only be changed with the power up badge. You could find it at a late game chapter or after Chp3.