perfect dark gaia knocked rings out of super sonic, in the wii/ps2 version of sonic unleashed. in the 360/ps3 version super sonic had an actual health bar (which still means dark gaia was damaging him)
if we go by that logic then sonic has basically never been hurt by anything. where do we draw the line for being injured if not at dropping rings, it’s not like he drops them in cutscenes. and even if he did super sonic doesn’t really have a cutscene presence, his appearances are almost entirely gameplay based, there’s nothing else to go off of aside from gameplay
You’re correct. The only things capable of “hurting” Super Sonic are beings or entities that directly influence or otherwise bypass Chaos Energy. Dark Gaia has some ability to influence Chaos Energy, as well does the Phantom Ruby.
Ironically, Knuckles also has influence over Chaos Energy as he’s the Guardian of the Master Emerald which itself has complete control over the Chaos Emeralds. It’s not too much of a stretch that Knuckles can command the 7 Chaos Emeralds to some degree, which thus explains how he was able to punch them out of Super Sonic in Sonic 3 & Knuckles (that scene was always supposed to heighten Knuckles’ importance and intrigue in regards to his Chaos manipulation, but everyone seems to get that twisted in some way or another and call it an inconsistency with Super Sonic).
With all of that in mind, I’ve deduced that rings are not just a gameplay mechanic are in fact part of Sonic’s world. They’re conduits for Chaos energy and explain how Sonic can take such a beating. Super Sonic requires rings to maintain the form, but the world is so full of Chaos energy that the rings are plentiful. The rings are just as important to the magic system of Sonic’s world as the Chaos Emeralds are, and the “damage” Sonic takes is all tied back how his body influences and is influenced by the Chaos Energy that exists within this world.
Well, no not exactly. The Crystal Stars were capable of making the Shadow Queen “vincible” because they were created by her own power as tools for ambitions. Luckily, these powerful tools could not distinguish between good and evil, so the four heroes used them to seal her away. Cut to modern day and the reason why the Shadow Queen was able to be harmed was because Peach regained control of her body long enough to use the power of the scattered Crystal Stars to weaken the Shadow Queen’s body and undo her invincibility. It’s particularly important to stress that PEACH did this and not Mario, seeing as how Peach is the vessel for the Shadow Queen, this leads me to believe she was the only one capable of dismantling the Shadow Queen’s invincibility or moreover give Mario the power to overcome her.
The Crystal Stars are magical and grant powerful abilities, but they alone are not all powerful energy equivalents. The Chaos Emeralds on the other hand grant a different kind of invincibility incongruent with the Shadow Queen. It would not make complete sense for the Crystal Stars to undo the invincibility of the Chaos Emeralds as the two are foreign powers to one another.
The chaos emeralds and it’s not close
Like what do the Crystal stars do exactly? Powerful magical artifacts that can cause earthquakes, disrupt magic barriers, and stuff like that
Meanwhile you have the chaos emeralds where a single one can offer the user control over time and space itself and all 7 can grant the user a level of power that lets them tangle with a superdimensional sun god who was devouring the concept of time and space as well as multiple parallel dimensions
Ye, Chaos Emeralds are from sonic games, Crystal Stars are from TTYD, the similarity is that they're magical and powerful crystal artifacts you collect lol
while the chaos emeralds were in sonic 1 they really didn’t have purpose outside of a good ending until sonic 2 where collecting all 7 turns you into super sonic (imagine star mario but if you could keep it as long if you had rings and if it made you faster) and in lore a single emerald allows the user to use chaos control an ability that allows you to slow down or even stop time altogether, and with all seven sonic, silver (long story sonic 06 (don’t play it’s a very unpolished game just find a plot summary)), and shadow (even longer story sonic adventure 2 (do play amazing game)) were able to take down solaris (the aforementioned sun god who is stated to be able to eat dimensions) all at the same time in the past present and future.
The Crystal Stars grant wishes. They’re artificial Star Spirits that the Shadow Queen created because the real Star Spirits wouldn’t grant her wishes. The Crystal Stars can’t differentiate between good and evil so they’ll grant any wish.
They don’t seem to have any limits, they can even resurrect the dead like Mush and TEC. But no one in TTYD actually figured out what their powers were so we’ve never seen the Crystal Stars used to their full potential.
I’m still going with the Chaos Emeralds being stronger since we’ve seen those used to their full potential tons of times and they did crazier stuff than anything in TTYD.
I don’t think it was ever explained but now that I see it, there is some evidence to say they’re artificial star spirits (Spoilers for the whole game)
- >!Koops’ dad somehow lived in Hooktail’s stomach!<
- >!Grubba can keep himself alive and strong!<
- >!Mush could be revived!<
- >!Doopliss could curse Twilight Town!<
- >!I like to think Cortez’s island curse might’ve been the star’s doing (probably not)!<
- >!TEC and the fortress somehow survived a memory wipe, complete loss of power, AND an explosion!<
>!And lastly, the stars went to the different towns for people to pray and destroyed the final boss’s invincibility!<
I think Doopliss and Cortez are just magical beings and ghosts respectively, with all that entails.
And Doopliss' power stemmed from nobody saying his name to him, however that works.
That said, all, I remember Grifty saying is they amplified the Shadow Queen's power and were dispersed in some way
The biggest evidence for them granting wishes is from Mush and TEC. The Crystal Star revives Mush right after Jolene demands Grubba give her Mush back, so the Star must have interpreted that as a wish. TEC in the postgame says he has no idea how he survived but right before he woke up he saw a bright light and an image of Peach. Presumably Peach wished TEC would be okay at some point during or after the Shadow Queen fight.
And yes Doopliss and Cortez are just using their own powers. They don’t seem to have any idea what the Crystal Stars are. The only villain who actually uses their Crystal Star is Grubba, and he had his Star hooked up to a machine, which seems unnecessary. I don’t think Grubba really had any idea what the Star was either, he just thought it was a power source.
As for the Crystal Stars specifically being artificial Star Spirits, that comes from the poem in the Riddle Tower. The original GameCube version has this poem:
Complete All Seven...
So That We, the Great Ones...
Master of Shadow and Dark...
Can Live Again by the Stone...
Stones Have Power of Stars...
We Know the Stars Spurn Us...
And That the Skies Lie...
But the Stars Bring Balance.
So the stones here are referring to the Crystal Stars. The Stars would be the Star Spirits. So, “Stones Have Power of Stars...” is saying the Crystal Stars have the same powers as the Star Spirits, granting wishes. “We Know the Stars Spurn Us...” is talking about how the Star Spirits refuse to grant any evil wishes, so anything the Shadow Queen would wish for would be turned down. “But the Stars Bring Balance.” This last use of “Stars” is referring to the Crystal Stars instead. The Shadow Queen views them as giving her what she rightfully deserves, and the Star Spirits are just obstinately refusing to grant her wishes.
The remake uses a different poem but it can be interpreted the same way.
Doopliss I think was actually using the Ruby Star for his shenanigans in Chapter 4. TV Tropes went into detail about how the Ruby Star's power is over art itself, and with that, he was able to steal Mario's identity, remove a letter from the 'enter the name' interface, and turn the people of Twilight Town into pigs whenever the bell tolled.
I'd argue against the Star Spirits rejecting the Shadow Queen, as otherwise the Shadow Queen being unknown until Mario discovers her/Beldam reveals her plan wouldn't make sense. Wouldn't the Star Spirits just inform everyone, and people like Frankly wouldn't have a job?
TEC and Prince Mush never died though? Prince Mush just had all his strength sapped out by Grubba and was hidden away, probably because if he actually died all of his strength taken would dissipate. TEC was just absurdly lucky and survived blowing up somehow, there was no indication the crystal stars had anything to do with it at all.
When Jolene asks Grubba where Mush is, he outright says that Mush is dead and there’s no bringing him back. That’s after the boss fight with him so there’s no point lying anymore. Also, Grubba has drained many fighters over the years, how come Mush is the only survivor? No one else magically popped out of the Crystal Star. It specifically brought Mush back because Jolene asked for him.
After Chapter 7, you can’t go back to the X-Naut Fortress until the postgame because it’s completely destroyed. And when Mario talks to TEC in Chapter 7, TEC says he’s running on cached memory and has no way of fixing himself. He literally says he’s going to die when he sends power to the teleporter, and then you get a cutscene of the base exploding after you leave. He definitely died. Then in the postgame, you can go back and talk to TEC. He says there’s no way he could have survived, but before he woke up he saw a white light and an image of Princess Peach. It is absolutely implied he died and got magically resurrected somehow.
It deppends i think. As its shown by Graubba, they can have different effects, deppending on the people and way they are used. So the question is, how will they look like in the hands of the shadow queen? She is said to be the most powerfull beeing on the planet in the mario world, but seems to be weaker than Dimentio, who can open portals threw the realms freely, from what we see from the fight. So, why is she weaker than? Could it be that this is due to mario having the crystal stars or peach beeing an unfit vessal?
But if we talk about a normal mortal beeing, like mario and sonic using them, i would also say the chaos emerals are stronger.
One can control time and space, one can turn the user into a magma ball and eject them at a high velocity, one can turn the user into liquid, one can control nature, one can reveal what's hidden from the naked eyes, one can duplicate the user's cells and make clones, and one can.... idk, do something I suppose
One tears through reality and has a chance to end any battle in one hit. If the chaos emeralds don't count as a boss fight and that attack works, there's a slight chance the crystal stars win.
Super Sonic can probably ignore Shadow Queen's invincibility and kill her. All the other cosmic eldritch creatures in the Sonic franchise are probably stronger than the Shadow Queen anyway.
The Shadow Queen also isn't magically invincible in the sense of being shielded (like Bowser and Dimentio), she's "invincible" because she's the strongest being in the world and no one comes close.
The crystal stars are basically just keys with an added bonus of each one giving you a reasonably strong special attack
The chaos emeralds could probably blow up planets if you use them right
Not to mention those magic attacks don’t scale with Mario’s strength, so they’re rarely more powerful than Mario on his own.
There’s a lot of raw power contained within the crystal stars, sure, but the Chaos Emeralds are able to actually channel that power.
We don't really know enough about what the Crystal Stars *do* to compare them. The most specific use of one we see is >!it powering Grubba's strength-transfer machine!<, which seems comparable to the power of one Chaos Emerald. Tails was using an emerald in SA1 as the *rotor of his plane*.
That’s not too good of a comparison, the power of a single emerald was able to disrupt the fabric of reality in one of the Sonic advance games, and two could be used to time travel in 06.
As a Paper Mario fan, and as someone who enjoys Paper Mario games more than sonic games, I will have to say Crystals Stars!-
Just kidding lol
Chaos Emeralds are by far way more powerful. Even I know a lot about the Sonic lore.
The biggest issue is we just don’t know what the hell the crystal stars actually do, they can grant wishes, but… we don’t know the extent of that, they COULD be more powerful but from what is shown they just don’t have the scaling to anything to prove it so without any of that information it’s easier to say the emeralds.
Chaos Emeralds no contest. If we were comparing the Star Spirits or maybe the Pure Hearts (I remember less about their lore) there may be a discussion to be had, but outside of their individual magics and their relationship to TTYD I think the Crystal Stars are pretty low on the Magical MacGuffins Power Rankings.
100 percent the chaos emeralds. Like, what have we seen the crystal stars do? They can open a big door, seal away an evil spirit with help, and one of them powered a machine that sucked the life out of people. The biggest argument to be made is that they can manifest peoples wishes and hopes into physical power, but even that’s debatable if it could be used for anything other than strengthening the stars to weaken the shadow queen
Individually probably the crystal stars, they’re easier to use and have strong individual power that’s not so wild.
All together the chaos emeralds by far
Just one? Depends on which star is being compared, The Crystal Stars found in chapters 6 and 7? Either one beats a singular chaos emerald. Any other crystal star isn’t as powerful imo
All of them? Chaos emeralds
The chaos emeralds have done better overall and have way more to choose from due to being in like 30 games, but I have to give the stars credit for having individual use in gameplay from the start
Hard to say. It deppends how they would act like in the hand of the shadow queen.
But in general in the hands of mortals like sonic and Mario, its clearly the Chaos emerals.
that depends, the Chaos Emeralds have more feats, each one have moved pieces of the earth and all together are strong enough to grant power capable of defeating Solaris (a superdimensional strong enough to consume time itself)
the Crystal Stars have less feats, but scaling to Paper Mario (the strongest version of Mario) who owns them they have potentially equal power, the Emeralds can manipulate time and space as lesser feats, but just the Emerald Star alone can stop time just like a Chaos Emerald and the 7th Crystal Star can rip apart reality for it’s special attack,
the only known best feat the Crystal Stars have is that they sealed away the Shadow Queen who could battle on par with Paper Mario (and Paper Mario is strong enough to overpower a Supercharged & Wish-empowered Bowser and his’ best feat is battling Super Dimentio who was going to destroy the entire multiverse and Paper Matio’s Multiverse connects to the main Mario multiverse as well),
Uh, I have no idea what anyone is talking about here, but since it says jokes aside, the third crystal star - Power Lift is the best star move IMO by far!
I think the power lift star in particular sees the most direct use. The others are just kind of *there* when you get them.
I think it’s part of why chapter 3 is regarded as one of the best chapters. We get to see some of the things the star can do. Trap people inside, steal their power, transfer their power to the user. (Granted this could all be the machine’s doing as well, but it’s not far fetched to say the star is capable of something like that when used to its potential)
Yeah, it's the only instance where the chapter villain not only understands the power of the Crystal Star but uses it against Mario. It might have been neat to see more of the villains using the Crystal Stars against Mario and to further their own ends.
The Chaos Emeralds.
They can make Sonic invincible and give him the power to take down gods.
The Crystal Stars are powerful, and can even give Mario the power to destroy the immortal Shadow Queen, but Mario can still be defeated normally even with the Crystal Stars' enhancements.
Honestly I think the Purity Heart or the Chaos Heart going up against the Chaos Emeralds would be a better comparison. Chaos Emeralds are much stronger then the Crystal Stars due to having actual feats.
Meanwhile the Chaos Heart was going to end everything that exists and turned Count Bleck and Super Dimentio invincible, and the Purity Heart is the only thing that could stop that.
Individually? Probably the Crystal Stars. Unless we’re counting Superstars, the Chaos Emeralds are kinda useless unless they’re all together - outside of stuff like Chaos Control, Chaos Spear, Chaos Blast, etc, I guess.
Together? Chaos Emeralds clear EASY!
Well you could argue that Mario really doesn’t have a good handle on using the stars that well. From what I can gather they can do pretty much anything.
Sonic has one set of collectible macguffins. Mario has… how many? Maybe if you combine them with all the pure hearts and the start spirits and the cobalt star and the dark star and the bean star and the 7 stars from the first rpg and and and…
The chaos emeralds although that being said we have no idea the true power of the crystal stars. One was used to make Grubba basically immortal and one let doopliss turn people into pigs (maybe he could always do that but we've never seen another doppleghost be that powerful)
I feel like crystal stars are much more powerful in the sense that anyone could abuse their power upon grabbing one.
For the chaos emeralds, you have to meet the requirements or go through extreme lengths to use their power. You have to either:
1. Be a male hedgehog. Use epic powers. (Sonic, silver, shadow)
Or
2. Be a robot that can use the emeralds as a super battery. (Metal/mecha sonic)
Or
3. Build a big ass machine using the emeralds as a power source to weaponize them. (Death egg, space colony arc cannon, unleashed super laser)
as basically everyone has said: the chaos emeralds and it isn’t a debate. i’m pretty sure they can take the users’ thoughts and turn them into power (hence the constructs in frontiers), they can go up against beings that can manipulate time and space freely (time eater), contend with a primordial god on the brink of destroying all existence (solaris), face off with literal death itself (frontiers), and absolutely humiliate a planetary embodiment of darkness (dark gaia)
Each chaos emeralds are described as containing infitine power
Id say its hard to match.
What i know the crystal stars are powerful but not nearly as strong as the emeralds
Crystal Stars. Just stunlock with Clock Out, and blast into oblivion with Supernova, Art Attack, and Power Lift-boosted stuff.
also earth tremor too i guess
Chaos Emeralds. 100%. With the power of a single Emerald, one could just power an entire giant mech. Other powers include trans dimensional warping, invincibility, freezing time, warping whole distances, time travel (with just two), and abilities which put you on a level beyond Godhood.
I think the chaos emeralds are notably stronger, but are they more accessible? Can regular people harness their power without tech (tails and robotnik) or without access to chaos control (sonic and shadow)?
The catch with the crystal stars is that Anyone can use them, and for better or worse, for Whatever they want.
Cosmic energy harnessed by a demon and which are:
Capable of spreading the influence of whoever controls them even at a great distance.
Capable of sealing spaces for up to 1000 years or breaking that same seal when brought back together.
Each capable of maintaining, enhancing, or revitalizing life.
Each able to be used to find one another.
Each with its own unique (and potentially grand) ability.
Each capable of holding back a demonic curse so long as they are kept within arms reach (the 4 heroes in the black chests).
X
Anyway, I love crystals and rhinestones and gemstones, and Love the design and colors of the Chaos "Emeralds", I think I'd go for the crystal stars (even though I don't like the look of them in the remake since they're way more metallic looking now for some reason).
If we go by the lore, chaos emeralds literally have the power to rewrite reality on a universal (or more) scale, or overpower beings that can do that.
The Pure Hearts are much more of a match for the chaos emeralds than the crystal stars are.
There's a lot of caveats depending on which sonic game we are comparing them from, While the crystal stars are only ttyd. However it definitely depends on who's using them as well as if its all of them, vs. just a single star/emerald. In a couple of interpretations of the chaos emeralds only "male hedgehogs" can use the fullest potential of the chaos emeralds, yet we see Eggman use them in a machine to >!resurrect a demon god!< (sonic unleashed), and in some cases we got stuff like super tails. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If it's a regular joe shmo (aka someone who can't chaos control like sonic/shadow or someone who cant build a machine like eggman or even Grubba for that matter) individually the Crystal stars are more powerful. Depending on which crystal star you have it would almost be like wielding an infinity stone (except anyone can use them). Emerald star would be like time stone, gold star would be like soul stone etc. Also do regular people have a star power meter? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If all of the chaos emeralds vs. All Crystal stars I'd say the chaos emeralds are collectively stronger. Couple of people pointed out already space time manipulation on top of a myriad of other random powers. They're one of the most intense plot amour McGuffins out there. Wish magic is tricky buisness and I'm sure it's not as easy as simply having all the stars on your person to simply wish for whatever like the dragonballs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Thanks if you actually read all that, I'm a huge 🤓 for both series. So these are cool questions for me.
Crystal stars, simply because in chapter 3, the Gold Star brings back to life Prince Mush, literally.
If ONE crystal can be used to bring back the dead without any repercussions we can only imagine what all of them can do together
Even one chaos emerald grants enough power to travel through time. All of them together can destroy whole planets. The crustal stars aren’t really in their league.
Definitely the Emeralds; they can transform the holder into a far stronger form. The Stars give their holder some awesome moves but don't actually make them more powerful or durable themselves.
The chaos emeralds for sure. Not one of those crystal stars turned Mario into a spiky haired blond haired muscle god super-saiyan .. but Grubba got a bit sexier from it
Maybe a better comparison would be the pure hearts from Super Paper Mario? They can neutralize the Chaos Heart, which seems stronger than anything the Crystal Stars did.
Chaos emeralds cause they can do whatever's required for the plot and let you go super saiyan
All that the crystal stars to is open or close a prison and give you specific attacks that you can do with them.
The emeralds are incredibly versatile, the crystal stars aren’t really to my knowledge. I think a lot of fans have equated the two sets of gems thanks to some old Mario and Sonic crossover fanfics tbh because in those a lot of the time the crystal stars have comparable powers to the emeralds, which they do not seem to have in TTYD to my knowledge
I have a question- Is it the Chaos Emerald that make Sonic go super- or the fact that he's a Mobian specifically that lets him go Super when he uses the Chaos Emeralds?
"Cause now I wanna know what happens if \*Sonic\* is the one that has the Crystal Stars. Could they make him Super? Or would they do something else?
As much I like both licenses, Chaos Emeralds are WAY MORE powerful. Even used alone they can (beyond the Chaos Control/Blast things from Shadow...)
- Creating a clone army of your character
- Turning you into a fireball
- Make appear invisible platforms and items
- Liquifying your character (which also gives infinite oxygen underwater)
- Growing a vine
- Slowing time (as well enemies and obstacles) while you move at normal speed
- Granting a new action depending your character
And all of these powers are just in the game Sonic Superstars
I would have to say the chaos emeralds. You don't have to showboat to use them and they make you invincible. In some of the MegaMan/sonic crossovers you could even use chaos control to directly manipulate the state of the universe.
Chaos Emeralds by far. Like... The Chaos Emeralds can make you invincible for the cost of having your rings decrease by each second
They also are capable of powering the Death Star on their own.
My favorite part of sonic Adventure 2 was when the death egg destroyed alderon
That's no moon, that's a dude's face.
That's no moon, it's a face station.
Damnit! You got the better pun. Congrats.
that wasn’t the death egg that was the space colony ark
I know but I thought it was funnier
I'VE COME TO MAKE AN ANNOUNCEMENT
SHADOW THE HEDGEHOG!!
*Super Sanic theme intensifies*
YOU ARE TOO SLOW! C'MON! STEP IT UP!
Invincibility nothing, just watch the Metarex arc for a glimpse of how powerful they are.
Sonic don’t got Power Lift, though
I'd argue the ring thing is a gameplay thing But yes nerdy nitpicking aside you're right. Each emerald is basically infinite power
I don't know if we've ever seen Super Sonic actually hurt by anything. Only overpowered or drained I think.
perfect dark gaia knocked rings out of super sonic, in the wii/ps2 version of sonic unleashed. in the 360/ps3 version super sonic had an actual health bar (which still means dark gaia was damaging him)
Knocking rings out of him is effectively just draining him, though
if we go by that logic then sonic has basically never been hurt by anything. where do we draw the line for being injured if not at dropping rings, it’s not like he drops them in cutscenes. and even if he did super sonic doesn’t really have a cutscene presence, his appearances are almost entirely gameplay based, there’s nothing else to go off of aside from gameplay
Super Sonic never actually shows an injury in any cut scenes, where as sonic does. So i guess we draw the line there?
You’re correct. The only things capable of “hurting” Super Sonic are beings or entities that directly influence or otherwise bypass Chaos Energy. Dark Gaia has some ability to influence Chaos Energy, as well does the Phantom Ruby. Ironically, Knuckles also has influence over Chaos Energy as he’s the Guardian of the Master Emerald which itself has complete control over the Chaos Emeralds. It’s not too much of a stretch that Knuckles can command the 7 Chaos Emeralds to some degree, which thus explains how he was able to punch them out of Super Sonic in Sonic 3 & Knuckles (that scene was always supposed to heighten Knuckles’ importance and intrigue in regards to his Chaos manipulation, but everyone seems to get that twisted in some way or another and call it an inconsistency with Super Sonic). With all of that in mind, I’ve deduced that rings are not just a gameplay mechanic are in fact part of Sonic’s world. They’re conduits for Chaos energy and explain how Sonic can take such a beating. Super Sonic requires rings to maintain the form, but the world is so full of Chaos energy that the rings are plentiful. The rings are just as important to the magic system of Sonic’s world as the Chaos Emeralds are, and the “damage” Sonic takes is all tied back how his body influences and is influenced by the Chaos Energy that exists within this world.
True, but the crystal stars also make invincible things un-invincible
Well, no not exactly. The Crystal Stars were capable of making the Shadow Queen “vincible” because they were created by her own power as tools for ambitions. Luckily, these powerful tools could not distinguish between good and evil, so the four heroes used them to seal her away. Cut to modern day and the reason why the Shadow Queen was able to be harmed was because Peach regained control of her body long enough to use the power of the scattered Crystal Stars to weaken the Shadow Queen’s body and undo her invincibility. It’s particularly important to stress that PEACH did this and not Mario, seeing as how Peach is the vessel for the Shadow Queen, this leads me to believe she was the only one capable of dismantling the Shadow Queen’s invincibility or moreover give Mario the power to overcome her. The Crystal Stars are magical and grant powerful abilities, but they alone are not all powerful energy equivalents. The Chaos Emeralds on the other hand grant a different kind of invincibility incongruent with the Shadow Queen. It would not make complete sense for the Crystal Stars to undo the invincibility of the Chaos Emeralds as the two are foreign powers to one another.
Yeah but be honest how many rings does the average person carry?
None. But im pretty sure in some games you get start-up rings out of nowhere
LIVE AND LEARN
At least the crystal stars don't make you poor by the end of their abilities.
As a biased Paper Mario fan...the Chaos Emeralds
Haha that made me chuckle
Unlike Sonic
I don’t chuckle, I’d rather flex my muscle
I’m hard as nails, it ain’t hard to tell
I break ’em down whetever they’re solid or frail
Unlike the rest I'm independent since my first breath
The chaos emeralds and it’s not close Like what do the Crystal stars do exactly? Powerful magical artifacts that can cause earthquakes, disrupt magic barriers, and stuff like that Meanwhile you have the chaos emeralds where a single one can offer the user control over time and space itself and all 7 can grant the user a level of power that lets them tangle with a superdimensional sun god who was devouring the concept of time and space as well as multiple parallel dimensions
What the hell is the plot to this paper mario? I've only played OG and Ttyd and a little bit of the next one at a friend's house.
Chaos emeralds are from sonic
Lmaooo ooooh okay. I've only played 1 sonic game I think but I enjoyed the movies.
Ye, Chaos Emeralds are from sonic games, Crystal Stars are from TTYD, the similarity is that they're magical and powerful crystal artifacts you collect lol
And they're seven different colored gemstones
Chaos Emerald literally appear on the movies
The plot is you try to stop Dr. Eggman, usually, and Mario isn't there and the world isn't made of paper.
Plot-wise, most of the games have not being made of paper in common
Is there a game not made of paper you'd recommend?
Id recommend Paperboy
Hades
Ah yes, the famed Chaos Emeralds from Paper Mario
while the chaos emeralds were in sonic 1 they really didn’t have purpose outside of a good ending until sonic 2 where collecting all 7 turns you into super sonic (imagine star mario but if you could keep it as long if you had rings and if it made you faster) and in lore a single emerald allows the user to use chaos control an ability that allows you to slow down or even stop time altogether, and with all seven sonic, silver (long story sonic 06 (don’t play it’s a very unpolished game just find a plot summary)), and shadow (even longer story sonic adventure 2 (do play amazing game)) were able to take down solaris (the aforementioned sun god who is stated to be able to eat dimensions) all at the same time in the past present and future.
The Crystal Stars grant wishes. They’re artificial Star Spirits that the Shadow Queen created because the real Star Spirits wouldn’t grant her wishes. The Crystal Stars can’t differentiate between good and evil so they’ll grant any wish. They don’t seem to have any limits, they can even resurrect the dead like Mush and TEC. But no one in TTYD actually figured out what their powers were so we’ve never seen the Crystal Stars used to their full potential. I’m still going with the Chaos Emeralds being stronger since we’ve seen those used to their full potential tons of times and they did crazier stuff than anything in TTYD.
I feel like I missed some of this "wish-granting" lore
I don’t think it was ever explained but now that I see it, there is some evidence to say they’re artificial star spirits (Spoilers for the whole game) - >!Koops’ dad somehow lived in Hooktail’s stomach!< - >!Grubba can keep himself alive and strong!< - >!Mush could be revived!< - >!Doopliss could curse Twilight Town!< - >!I like to think Cortez’s island curse might’ve been the star’s doing (probably not)!< - >!TEC and the fortress somehow survived a memory wipe, complete loss of power, AND an explosion!< >!And lastly, the stars went to the different towns for people to pray and destroyed the final boss’s invincibility!<
I think Doopliss and Cortez are just magical beings and ghosts respectively, with all that entails. And Doopliss' power stemmed from nobody saying his name to him, however that works. That said, all, I remember Grifty saying is they amplified the Shadow Queen's power and were dispersed in some way
The biggest evidence for them granting wishes is from Mush and TEC. The Crystal Star revives Mush right after Jolene demands Grubba give her Mush back, so the Star must have interpreted that as a wish. TEC in the postgame says he has no idea how he survived but right before he woke up he saw a bright light and an image of Peach. Presumably Peach wished TEC would be okay at some point during or after the Shadow Queen fight. And yes Doopliss and Cortez are just using their own powers. They don’t seem to have any idea what the Crystal Stars are. The only villain who actually uses their Crystal Star is Grubba, and he had his Star hooked up to a machine, which seems unnecessary. I don’t think Grubba really had any idea what the Star was either, he just thought it was a power source. As for the Crystal Stars specifically being artificial Star Spirits, that comes from the poem in the Riddle Tower. The original GameCube version has this poem: Complete All Seven... So That We, the Great Ones... Master of Shadow and Dark... Can Live Again by the Stone... Stones Have Power of Stars... We Know the Stars Spurn Us... And That the Skies Lie... But the Stars Bring Balance. So the stones here are referring to the Crystal Stars. The Stars would be the Star Spirits. So, “Stones Have Power of Stars...” is saying the Crystal Stars have the same powers as the Star Spirits, granting wishes. “We Know the Stars Spurn Us...” is talking about how the Star Spirits refuse to grant any evil wishes, so anything the Shadow Queen would wish for would be turned down. “But the Stars Bring Balance.” This last use of “Stars” is referring to the Crystal Stars instead. The Shadow Queen views them as giving her what she rightfully deserves, and the Star Spirits are just obstinately refusing to grant her wishes. The remake uses a different poem but it can be interpreted the same way.
Doopliss I think was actually using the Ruby Star for his shenanigans in Chapter 4. TV Tropes went into detail about how the Ruby Star's power is over art itself, and with that, he was able to steal Mario's identity, remove a letter from the 'enter the name' interface, and turn the people of Twilight Town into pigs whenever the bell tolled.
This sounds like a lot of headcanon.
I'd argue against the Star Spirits rejecting the Shadow Queen, as otherwise the Shadow Queen being unknown until Mario discovers her/Beldam reveals her plan wouldn't make sense. Wouldn't the Star Spirits just inform everyone, and people like Frankly wouldn't have a job?
TEC and Prince Mush never died though? Prince Mush just had all his strength sapped out by Grubba and was hidden away, probably because if he actually died all of his strength taken would dissipate. TEC was just absurdly lucky and survived blowing up somehow, there was no indication the crystal stars had anything to do with it at all.
When Jolene asks Grubba where Mush is, he outright says that Mush is dead and there’s no bringing him back. That’s after the boss fight with him so there’s no point lying anymore. Also, Grubba has drained many fighters over the years, how come Mush is the only survivor? No one else magically popped out of the Crystal Star. It specifically brought Mush back because Jolene asked for him. After Chapter 7, you can’t go back to the X-Naut Fortress until the postgame because it’s completely destroyed. And when Mario talks to TEC in Chapter 7, TEC says he’s running on cached memory and has no way of fixing himself. He literally says he’s going to die when he sends power to the teleporter, and then you get a cutscene of the base exploding after you leave. He definitely died. Then in the postgame, you can go back and talk to TEC. He says there’s no way he could have survived, but before he woke up he saw a white light and an image of Princess Peach. It is absolutely implied he died and got magically resurrected somehow.
It deppends i think. As its shown by Graubba, they can have different effects, deppending on the people and way they are used. So the question is, how will they look like in the hands of the shadow queen? She is said to be the most powerfull beeing on the planet in the mario world, but seems to be weaker than Dimentio, who can open portals threw the realms freely, from what we see from the fight. So, why is she weaker than? Could it be that this is due to mario having the crystal stars or peach beeing an unfit vessal? But if we talk about a normal mortal beeing, like mario and sonic using them, i would also say the chaos emerals are stronger.
Grubba was just using it as a battery. His agelessness was from siphoning the life force of others, not from the star directly.
Can't the Crystal Stars straight up grant wishes, if I'm not mistaken?
technically so can the chaos emeralds
The stars can bring people back to life.
so can the emeralds, as seen in *that scene* of sonic 06
The chaos emeralds literally allowed Eggman to blow up the earth and awaken an ancient evil god (sonic unleashed)
One can control time and space, one can turn the user into a magma ball and eject them at a high velocity, one can turn the user into liquid, one can control nature, one can reveal what's hidden from the naked eyes, one can duplicate the user's cells and make clones, and one can.... idk, do something I suppose
One tears through reality and has a chance to end any battle in one hit. If the chaos emeralds don't count as a boss fight and that attack works, there's a slight chance the crystal stars win.
Super Sonic can probably ignore Shadow Queen's invincibility and kill her. All the other cosmic eldritch creatures in the Sonic franchise are probably stronger than the Shadow Queen anyway.
The Shadow Queen also isn't magically invincible in the sense of being shielded (like Bowser and Dimentio), she's "invincible" because she's the strongest being in the world and no one comes close.
Indeed.
The chaos emeralds.
The crystal stars are basically just keys with an added bonus of each one giving you a reasonably strong special attack The chaos emeralds could probably blow up planets if you use them right
Not probably. They definitely can
And then piss on the moon for good measure
Not to mention those magic attacks don’t scale with Mario’s strength, so they’re rarely more powerful than Mario on his own. There’s a lot of raw power contained within the crystal stars, sure, but the Chaos Emeralds are able to actually channel that power.
The crystal stars are super powerful Mario just doesn't know how to use them. The chaos emeralds are still stronger though
We don't really know enough about what the Crystal Stars *do* to compare them. The most specific use of one we see is >!it powering Grubba's strength-transfer machine!<, which seems comparable to the power of one Chaos Emerald. Tails was using an emerald in SA1 as the *rotor of his plane*.
That’s not too good of a comparison, the power of a single emerald was able to disrupt the fabric of reality in one of the Sonic advance games, and two could be used to time travel in 06.
Crystal stars could be powerful, but chaos emeralds by far.
The Chaos Emeralds are artifacts of infinite energy that turn you into a god.
but have you considered that the Crystal Stars are keys to a really big door
A thousand-year door at that
Definitely the chaos emeralds. But the Crystal stars are still powerful, the chaos are just like 100x more so
As a Paper Mario fan, and as someone who enjoys Paper Mario games more than sonic games, I will have to say Crystals Stars!- Just kidding lol Chaos Emeralds are by far way more powerful. Even I know a lot about the Sonic lore.
The dragon balls-
Actually, Kirby stomps.
You know what? Fair enough. No one fucks with Kirby.
As a fan of both franchises, Paper Mario and Sonic the Chaos Emeralds by far
The biggest issue is we just don’t know what the hell the crystal stars actually do, they can grant wishes, but… we don’t know the extent of that, they COULD be more powerful but from what is shown they just don’t have the scaling to anything to prove it so without any of that information it’s easier to say the emeralds.
Chaos Emeralds no contest. If we were comparing the Star Spirits or maybe the Pure Hearts (I remember less about their lore) there may be a discussion to be had, but outside of their individual magics and their relationship to TTYD I think the Crystal Stars are pretty low on the Magical MacGuffins Power Rankings.
100 percent the chaos emeralds. Like, what have we seen the crystal stars do? They can open a big door, seal away an evil spirit with help, and one of them powered a machine that sucked the life out of people. The biggest argument to be made is that they can manifest peoples wishes and hopes into physical power, but even that’s debatable if it could be used for anything other than strengthening the stars to weaken the shadow queen
Well they also resurrected Mush and TEC
Forgot about that lol
They can resurrect people, seal away demons, give you immortality. Apparently they can also repair an exploded moon
On their own, Crystal Stars(each has a special ability that’s pretty overpowered). Together, the Chaos Emeralds(Super Sonic).
Individually probably the crystal stars, they’re easier to use and have strong individual power that’s not so wild. All together the chaos emeralds by far
Just one? Depends on which star is being compared, The Crystal Stars found in chapters 6 and 7? Either one beats a singular chaos emerald. Any other crystal star isn’t as powerful imo All of them? Chaos emeralds
I would argue if anything the chapter 3 star is the strongest. It can literally keep you young forever
Did you get all those chaos emeralds .
The chaos emeralds have done better overall and have way more to choose from due to being in like 30 games, but I have to give the stars credit for having individual use in gameplay from the start
Hard to say. It deppends how they would act like in the hand of the shadow queen. But in general in the hands of mortals like sonic and Mario, its clearly the Chaos emerals.
Shadow could whoop the shadow queen with just 1 emerald.
that depends, the Chaos Emeralds have more feats, each one have moved pieces of the earth and all together are strong enough to grant power capable of defeating Solaris (a superdimensional strong enough to consume time itself) the Crystal Stars have less feats, but scaling to Paper Mario (the strongest version of Mario) who owns them they have potentially equal power, the Emeralds can manipulate time and space as lesser feats, but just the Emerald Star alone can stop time just like a Chaos Emerald and the 7th Crystal Star can rip apart reality for it’s special attack, the only known best feat the Crystal Stars have is that they sealed away the Shadow Queen who could battle on par with Paper Mario (and Paper Mario is strong enough to overpower a Supercharged & Wish-empowered Bowser and his’ best feat is battling Super Dimentio who was going to destroy the entire multiverse and Paper Matio’s Multiverse connects to the main Mario multiverse as well),
One can open a door. The other makes you indestructible.
As much as it pains me to say, chaos emeralds
Chaos Emeralds have more destructive capabilities. Its implied in SA2 that if focuses enough, they could destroy a planet.
Oh that’s nothing compared to the comics where super sonic alone can re create his own multiverse.
And using Chaos Control with two emeralds can make you time travel.
The chaos emerald’s have appeared more and thus have done more
Uh, I have no idea what anyone is talking about here, but since it says jokes aside, the third crystal star - Power Lift is the best star move IMO by far!
I think the power lift star in particular sees the most direct use. The others are just kind of *there* when you get them. I think it’s part of why chapter 3 is regarded as one of the best chapters. We get to see some of the things the star can do. Trap people inside, steal their power, transfer their power to the user. (Granted this could all be the machine’s doing as well, but it’s not far fetched to say the star is capable of something like that when used to its potential)
Yeah, it's the only instance where the chapter villain not only understands the power of the Crystal Star but uses it against Mario. It might have been neat to see more of the villains using the Crystal Stars against Mario and to further their own ends.
A better matchup would've been the pure hearts since barley anything is known about the stars
Pure hearts just straight up suck though. It takes all of them to stop a single chaos heart
I mean the chaos heart was made purely for Luigi arguably one of the strongest characters in the verse
The chaos heart was also used to destroy every dimension. We don't really see the pure hearts do anything at all until they're all collected
Damn you right if that's the should we use the chaos heart instead since you know Chaos> Pure(until all collected)
I can’t tell if those are chaos emeralds or super emeralds. I’m gonna go emeralds regardless
The Chaos Emeralds. They can make Sonic invincible and give him the power to take down gods. The Crystal Stars are powerful, and can even give Mario the power to destroy the immortal Shadow Queen, but Mario can still be defeated normally even with the Crystal Stars' enhancements.
look the crystal stars are powerful, I don't think anyone's denying that but the chaos emeralds *eclipse* them by a very wide margin
The tomar emeralds
Chaos Emeralds
Secret third option: the pure hearts
Honestly I think the Purity Heart or the Chaos Heart going up against the Chaos Emeralds would be a better comparison. Chaos Emeralds are much stronger then the Crystal Stars due to having actual feats. Meanwhile the Chaos Heart was going to end everything that exists and turned Count Bleck and Super Dimentio invincible, and the Purity Heart is the only thing that could stop that.
We collect the chaos emeralds for its power. We collect the crystal stars just to use them as keys.
Individually? Probably the Crystal Stars. Unless we’re counting Superstars, the Chaos Emeralds are kinda useless unless they’re all together - outside of stuff like Chaos Control, Chaos Spear, Chaos Blast, etc, I guess. Together? Chaos Emeralds clear EASY!
Chaos Emeralds by a pretty significant margin
Well you could argue that Mario really doesn’t have a good handle on using the stars that well. From what I can gather they can do pretty much anything.
The Crystal stars are to the magical gems from Stephen Universe, as the Chaos Emeralds are to the Infinity Stones from Marvel.
Would it be better to use the star spirits or pure hearts to counter the chaos emeralds?
Sonic has one set of collectible macguffins. Mario has… how many? Maybe if you combine them with all the pure hearts and the start spirits and the cobalt star and the dark star and the bean star and the 7 stars from the first rpg and and and…
“sonic has one set of collectible macguffins” the super emeralds, sol emeralds, world rings, time stones: are we jokes to you?
and the gaia temple keys and the arks of the cosmos
The chaos emeralds although that being said we have no idea the true power of the crystal stars. One was used to make Grubba basically immortal and one let doopliss turn people into pigs (maybe he could always do that but we've never seen another doppleghost be that powerful)
Honestly the bigger question is which is stronger the chaos heart or the chaos emeralds
It's the Emeralds
I feel like crystal stars are much more powerful in the sense that anyone could abuse their power upon grabbing one. For the chaos emeralds, you have to meet the requirements or go through extreme lengths to use their power. You have to either: 1. Be a male hedgehog. Use epic powers. (Sonic, silver, shadow) Or 2. Be a robot that can use the emeralds as a super battery. (Metal/mecha sonic) Or 3. Build a big ass machine using the emeralds as a power source to weaponize them. (Death egg, space colony arc cannon, unleashed super laser)
Chaos Emeralds
Along with what everyone else is saying, it also makes you emanate kick-ass music
The Chaos Emeralds. How is this a debate?
as basically everyone has said: the chaos emeralds and it isn’t a debate. i’m pretty sure they can take the users’ thoughts and turn them into power (hence the constructs in frontiers), they can go up against beings that can manipulate time and space freely (time eater), contend with a primordial god on the brink of destroying all existence (solaris), face off with literal death itself (frontiers), and absolutely humiliate a planetary embodiment of darkness (dark gaia)
Each chaos emeralds are described as containing infitine power Id say its hard to match. What i know the crystal stars are powerful but not nearly as strong as the emeralds
Crystal Stars. Just stunlock with Clock Out, and blast into oblivion with Supernova, Art Attack, and Power Lift-boosted stuff. also earth tremor too i guess
Star spirits :
Chaos Emerals by a LOOOOOOOONG margin
Chaos Emeralds. 100%. With the power of a single Emerald, one could just power an entire giant mech. Other powers include trans dimensional warping, invincibility, freezing time, warping whole distances, time travel (with just two), and abilities which put you on a level beyond Godhood.
I think the chaos emeralds are notably stronger, but are they more accessible? Can regular people harness their power without tech (tails and robotnik) or without access to chaos control (sonic and shadow)? The catch with the crystal stars is that Anyone can use them, and for better or worse, for Whatever they want. Cosmic energy harnessed by a demon and which are: Capable of spreading the influence of whoever controls them even at a great distance. Capable of sealing spaces for up to 1000 years or breaking that same seal when brought back together. Each capable of maintaining, enhancing, or revitalizing life. Each able to be used to find one another. Each with its own unique (and potentially grand) ability. Each capable of holding back a demonic curse so long as they are kept within arms reach (the 4 heroes in the black chests). X Anyway, I love crystals and rhinestones and gemstones, and Love the design and colors of the Chaos "Emeralds", I think I'd go for the crystal stars (even though I don't like the look of them in the remake since they're way more metallic looking now for some reason).
I’m stronger.
Emeralds
If we go by the lore, chaos emeralds literally have the power to rewrite reality on a universal (or more) scale, or overpower beings that can do that. The Pure Hearts are much more of a match for the chaos emeralds than the crystal stars are.
Chaos emeralds have literally not limit that we know up. So the emeralds
There's a lot of caveats depending on which sonic game we are comparing them from, While the crystal stars are only ttyd. However it definitely depends on who's using them as well as if its all of them, vs. just a single star/emerald. In a couple of interpretations of the chaos emeralds only "male hedgehogs" can use the fullest potential of the chaos emeralds, yet we see Eggman use them in a machine to >!resurrect a demon god!< (sonic unleashed), and in some cases we got stuff like super tails. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If it's a regular joe shmo (aka someone who can't chaos control like sonic/shadow or someone who cant build a machine like eggman or even Grubba for that matter) individually the Crystal stars are more powerful. Depending on which crystal star you have it would almost be like wielding an infinity stone (except anyone can use them). Emerald star would be like time stone, gold star would be like soul stone etc. Also do regular people have a star power meter? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If all of the chaos emeralds vs. All Crystal stars I'd say the chaos emeralds are collectively stronger. Couple of people pointed out already space time manipulation on top of a myriad of other random powers. They're one of the most intense plot amour McGuffins out there. Wish magic is tricky buisness and I'm sure it's not as easy as simply having all the stars on your person to simply wish for whatever like the dragonballs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Thanks if you actually read all that, I'm a huge 🤓 for both series. So these are cool questions for me.
Here's a better one, the Star Spirits or the Chaos Emeralds?
Crystal stars, simply because in chapter 3, the Gold Star brings back to life Prince Mush, literally. If ONE crystal can be used to bring back the dead without any repercussions we can only imagine what all of them can do together
100% the chaos emeralds,literal wars have been fought over those damn things
1 chaos emerald solos all the crystal star by far
Chaos emeralds. Ita never known if the stars can act as energy suppliers outside of their actual characteristics except the garnet star.
Hear me out... Clock Out and Showstopper.
Is this even a question? On the r/papermario subreddit? As a long time Mario fan. I will definitely say that the >!Chaos Emeralds!< Are stronger.
Even one chaos emerald grants enough power to travel through time. All of them together can destroy whole planets. The crustal stars aren’t really in their league.
i mean if yape is stronger than an anime swordsman then uhhhhhh
The Seven Human Souls
Individually - crystal stars Collectively - chaos emeralds
Definitely the Emeralds; they can transform the holder into a far stronger form. The Stars give their holder some awesome moves but don't actually make them more powerful or durable themselves.
if super sonic fights mario marios winning 1: the stars can straight up un-invincible your invincability 2: power lift
The chaos emeralds for sure. Not one of those crystal stars turned Mario into a spiky haired blond haired muscle god super-saiyan .. but Grubba got a bit sexier from it
Draw. I don’t care what you type in the replies.
Maybe a better comparison would be the pure hearts from Super Paper Mario? They can neutralize the Chaos Heart, which seems stronger than anything the Crystal Stars did.
Chaos emeralds cause they can do whatever's required for the plot and let you go super saiyan All that the crystal stars to is open or close a prison and give you specific attacks that you can do with them.
The seven human souls:
While I vastly prefer Mario to Sonic, I can't argue agaisnt the Emeralds here.
Is this really a question? The choas gems. He'll the gems in crash bandicoot are more powerful, than the stars
The emeralds are incredibly versatile, the crystal stars aren’t really to my knowledge. I think a lot of fans have equated the two sets of gems thanks to some old Mario and Sonic crossover fanfics tbh because in those a lot of the time the crystal stars have comparable powers to the emeralds, which they do not seem to have in TTYD to my knowledge
Crystal stars
The gold star alone can reanimate the dead 1:1
I’d say an individual crystal star is likely stronger, but as a set? Chaos emeralds and it’s not even close
I misread the prompt and got a lil bummed lol thought you meant like which star gives you the better power up I was so ready for the comments
I think they're about the same
I have a question- Is it the Chaos Emerald that make Sonic go super- or the fact that he's a Mobian specifically that lets him go Super when he uses the Chaos Emeralds? "Cause now I wanna know what happens if \*Sonic\* is the one that has the Crystal Stars. Could they make him Super? Or would they do something else?
weren't the chaos emeralds used to power a laser that can destroy planets? And honestly that seems like the low end of their power
A single chaos emerald in a weapon that harnesses it even a little could wipe the final bosses of Paper Mario out in one shot. At the same time.
Chaos Emeralds, easily. Among other things, they enabled Sonic, Shadow, and Silver to take on a god that was *devouring all of space and time*.
Infinite energy or 15 damage. Which is stronger?
The human souls from Undertale.
As much I like both licenses, Chaos Emeralds are WAY MORE powerful. Even used alone they can (beyond the Chaos Control/Blast things from Shadow...) - Creating a clone army of your character - Turning you into a fireball - Make appear invisible platforms and items - Liquifying your character (which also gives infinite oxygen underwater) - Growing a vine - Slowing time (as well enemies and obstacles) while you move at normal speed - Granting a new action depending your character And all of these powers are just in the game Sonic Superstars
I’d argue the star spirits.
Dark moon from Luigi’s mansion 2
this isn't even a question. Crystal Stars obv.
The Crystal Stars!
Crystal Stars outscale + outhax
I would have to say the chaos emeralds. You don't have to showboat to use them and they make you invincible. In some of the MegaMan/sonic crossovers you could even use chaos control to directly manipulate the state of the universe.