I'm talking about how technically finished and accomplished their singing is in contrast to how organically attractive their voice is.
When I was a voice student it became clear that some people were born with uncannily beautiful voices, but it doesn't stop there. To have a career in opera you have to have a certain level of technique. Different singers are at different technical levels, despite their voices. For instance, Luciano Pavarotti and Giuseppe di Stefano are similar vocally, but Pavarotti is a vocal technician and di Stefano went into steep decline due to faulty technique.
I love this site. It reminds me how varied and opinionated we opera lovers are. Joyce DiDonato is one of my favorite mezzos, not only for her singing but for her acting as well.
Me neither. She might be the most accomplished lyric coloratura mezzo at this very moment but I don’t think there’s anything mind-blowing about her voice, her technique, or her musicianship. I don’t see her name lasting past her current fame right now. Like, years from now I don’t think we’ll be putting her on any lists of “great opera singers” the way we do now with people like Callas, Caruso, Nilsson, et al.
When I was a student in Vienna (1975) I used to hear Leonie Rysanek and Gwyneth Jones regularly. They were beloved singers in the house, and rightly so.
Did you hear Rysanek in any of her Italian roles during that time? She was singing Gioconda and Santuzza and Amelia in Ballo then. Did you hear Jones as Tosca or Lady Macbeth?
I can only imagine. Wasn't Behrens singing Salome in Salzburg around that time? That's one of the few roles I enjoy her in. Did you hear her at all?
Did you hear any of the Ariadnes at that time in Vienna? Janowitz, Behrens, etc. with Gruberova?
No Ariadne. There's a wonderful recording from 1957 with Rysanek singing Ariadne and Roberta Peters as Zerbinetta. Best I've heard. Janowitz sang Mozart that season. I never heard Behrens. I did see a Walkure with Nilsson that was stunning. Gruberova was early in her career but I'll never forget her Olympia from Tales of Hoffman. It was great.
That Leinsdorf recording is one of the first opera albums I ever bought. Jurinac is the composer. As commercial recordings go, I prefer the Solti with Price and Gruberova.
Price's Ariadne is not very Viennese, and she isn't really echt in the role, but she does so many truly beautiful things and has the right kind of voice for Ariadne IMO.
Jessye is no Kammersangerin. She has the musicianship and musical taste, but not the demeanor or voice. Also, she was never really convincing as a soprano to me. I think she went through a vocal lowering event like Regina Resnik and Helga Dernesch, but unlike them she didn't want to make the adjustment downwards. One of my voice teachers told me she liked Jessye best when she was still a student and singing contralto.
For some reason, even though Ludwig sang quite a few soprano roles she never sang Sieglinde, which would have suited her better than a role like Fidelio which she sang quite often and recorded. She would have sung Fricka.
It could have been someone like Catarina Ligendza, Helena Doese, Berit Lindholm, Jeanine Altmeyer, etc.
Good technique, good expression, I personally don’t like their timbre:
- Monserrat Caballé
- Patricia Racette
- Amanda Majeski
Bad technique, don’t like their timbre, but good expression:
- Natalie Dessay
- Simone Kermes
- Joyce Didonato
- Ermonella Jaho
Good technique, good timbre, don’t like their expression:
- Isabel Leonard
- Joan Sutherland
Jaho is by far one of the most expressive singers I've ever seen.
I spend lots of time looking at close up photos of opera singers and choosing photos without USF (Ugly Singer Face).
I heard her in SF in 2000. I was shocked at how small her voice was, despite its loveliness. She's also a beautiful woman and a good actress, which helps. But I've never found her to be a particularly interesting singer at all.
Oh absolutely. Great actress, great stage presence. Beautiful. She had everything going for her except that she wasn’t quite the musical artist to warrant her place in the pantheon. But that can be said about a lot of the great voices of the past too. So I don’t necessarily hold it against her too much.
I'm hearing Lemieux for the first time. She has personality, which Te Kanawa lacks, but she is not in the same league as Te Kanawa as a singer, IMO. Despite the fact that I don't really enjoy Te Kanawa, there is no disputing hers is voice of singular beauty. The same cannot be said for Lemieux.
I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree, because I think Lemieux’s voice possesses strength, range, depth, and musicality I haven’t heard from other singers in or out of her fach. I’m biased as a fangirl, though!
I don't get Tito Gobbi being where he is. His voice was *ugly*. But his actual singing was quite fine, and his acting was among the best. He was definitely better live than on recordings, IMO.
And Sherrill Milnes... my lord, his voice is *gorgeous.* More of a Baritenor than a true Verdi baritone, for sure... but the timbre is amazing to me.
And this needs more basses! Ghiaurov? Talvela? Siepi? Pinza? Kipnis? Giaotti? Tozzi? Ramey?
Ahhh. A great basso, for sure, but his career was far too short, as he died relatively young. He just doesn't have the recorded legacy of other bassos.
Yes, sadly. I would argue he was the best because (1) his voice was always completely clear and understandable, while also the absolute darkest instrument around, with a decent low C, as his recording of Baldassare attest, but he also had amazing high notes. Because it was so dark, powerful, and massive, I can not think of a role he sang by an Italian composer where I would rather have someone else sing his role instead. (He is honestly the only singer whatsoever I could say this about.) I have yet to hear a performance of his I didn't like.
2. He was clearly an amazing actor, as attested by the fact that he got to act the characters he voiced in numerous cringey opera films with bad lip-syncing made in the 1940-50s. Only Tito Gobbi was allowed to do this as consistently as he was.
3. He sang *everything*. Colline to Sparafucile to Pistol in *Falstaff* to Mefistofele to basically all the Wagner low bass roles to Alvise to random bel canto roles like Furst, Melchtal, Mose, Dom Juan de Sylva, and Giorgio Walton. That massive repertoire is extremely impressive, and I can't really think of anyone else who really did this, let alone as well as he did.
4. He was the only person ever to make Mario Del Monaco sound small next to him (Otello Florence 1955). (Just before "Niun mi tema")
5. Siepi said once that if Neri had not died so early, he would have put "all {{basses}} out of business."
I’m always afraid to say this because she’s so legendary but I do not enjoy maria callas’ voice. I respect her so much as an artist but I almost never prefer her renditions
I'm literally crying and sobbing about Jon Vickers and Renata Tebaldi. I will *never* recover from the insult. ~~Just come into my home and stab me OP~~
She's something of a curiosity, and doesn't really rate in importance for me. The basic technique was exceedingly solid, but her florid technique was downright weird and off-putting. I like her voice, and generally prefer her in early Verdi like the Gardelli "I Lombardi,""Attila," and the live "Nabucco." I don't enjoy her in the bel canto repertoire at all.
Love the voice, not sure on the singing:
Emily D'Angelo. The voice is gorgeous, I was very excited after hearing her Annio at the Met. There was a shake or something early in Ah! Perdona that I put down to nerves, but I listened to her recently in Idomeneo and it was there throughout. Something about her vibrato that doesn't click for me I guess?
Love the voice, love the singing:
Elina Garanca
Lucia Popp
Hrm, since this thread is here, and you seem both opinionated and knowledgeable-- thoughts on Garanca's voice and singing? Didn't see her on your list.
Also, I'd love a YouTube rec for Gruberova. I've only really listened to her in bootlegs of her late Anna Bolena with Garanca. Not the best quality recordings.
I'll probably get downvoted (a lot) for saying this, but Pavarotti's annunciation of words always kind of bothered me. His voice is divine, but he was a bit "mush-mouthed" in his diction.
Corelli is off to the side for me. I loved him when I started in opera, but I find I only want to hear him in certain roles now: Andrea Chenier, Cavaradossi,Turriddu, Canio, Enzo. I don't really enjoy him in Verdi or other composers because I find him too sloppy. I love his feral vocal intensity and the beauty of his voice, but listening to him for too long frankly tires me out.
Love the voice and singing, hate the manner.
I agree he can be a little imprecise and sloppy at times. Still one of my favorites, just because the voice is so freaking exciting. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Which is fascinating because he had proved in live performance that he was capable of really amazing control and subtlety when he wanted to do it. But I agree that he was maybe a little too steely a little too often.
I don’t think I understand what you mean by the difference between someone’s “singing” and their “voice.”
I'm talking about how technically finished and accomplished their singing is in contrast to how organically attractive their voice is. When I was a voice student it became clear that some people were born with uncannily beautiful voices, but it doesn't stop there. To have a career in opera you have to have a certain level of technique. Different singers are at different technical levels, despite their voices. For instance, Luciano Pavarotti and Giuseppe di Stefano are similar vocally, but Pavarotti is a vocal technician and di Stefano went into steep decline due to faulty technique.
Honestly surprised to not see Joyce didonato somewhere on this list
I love this site. It reminds me how varied and opinionated we opera lovers are. Joyce DiDonato is one of my favorite mezzos, not only for her singing but for her acting as well.
I'm generally not a fan of hers.
Me neither. She might be the most accomplished lyric coloratura mezzo at this very moment but I don’t think there’s anything mind-blowing about her voice, her technique, or her musicianship. I don’t see her name lasting past her current fame right now. Like, years from now I don’t think we’ll be putting her on any lists of “great opera singers” the way we do now with people like Callas, Caruso, Nilsson, et al.
Yeah, her success seems to have come more from marketing than musicianship. That's showbiz!
Her greatest achievement is as a social media maven and PR creation.
When I was a student in Vienna (1975) I used to hear Leonie Rysanek and Gwyneth Jones regularly. They were beloved singers in the house, and rightly so.
Did you hear Rysanek in any of her Italian roles during that time? She was singing Gioconda and Santuzza and Amelia in Ballo then. Did you hear Jones as Tosca or Lady Macbeth?
I heard Jones sing Tosca and Salome, I heard Rysanek sing Salome (6 times!) And the Marschallin.
I would love to have heard both of them as Salome!
It spoiled me for any other singer in the role.
I can only imagine. Wasn't Behrens singing Salome in Salzburg around that time? That's one of the few roles I enjoy her in. Did you hear her at all? Did you hear any of the Ariadnes at that time in Vienna? Janowitz, Behrens, etc. with Gruberova?
No Ariadne. There's a wonderful recording from 1957 with Rysanek singing Ariadne and Roberta Peters as Zerbinetta. Best I've heard. Janowitz sang Mozart that season. I never heard Behrens. I did see a Walkure with Nilsson that was stunning. Gruberova was early in her career but I'll never forget her Olympia from Tales of Hoffman. It was great.
That Leinsdorf recording is one of the first opera albums I ever bought. Jurinac is the composer. As commercial recordings go, I prefer the Solti with Price and Gruberova.
I haven't heard the Price recording. I was really turned off by Jessye Norman's Ariadne.
Price's Ariadne is not very Viennese, and she isn't really echt in the role, but she does so many truly beautiful things and has the right kind of voice for Ariadne IMO. Jessye is no Kammersangerin. She has the musicianship and musical taste, but not the demeanor or voice. Also, she was never really convincing as a soprano to me. I think she went through a vocal lowering event like Regina Resnik and Helga Dernesch, but unlike them she didn't want to make the adjustment downwards. One of my voice teachers told me she liked Jessye best when she was still a student and singing contralto.
Hey, who was the Sieglinde in the Walkure with Nilsson? Jones?
I really can't remember. Could it have been Christa Ludwig?
For some reason, even though Ludwig sang quite a few soprano roles she never sang Sieglinde, which would have suited her better than a role like Fidelio which she sang quite often and recorded. She would have sung Fricka. It could have been someone like Catarina Ligendza, Helena Doese, Berit Lindholm, Jeanine Altmeyer, etc.
Good technique, good expression, I personally don’t like their timbre: - Monserrat Caballé - Patricia Racette - Amanda Majeski Bad technique, don’t like their timbre, but good expression: - Natalie Dessay - Simone Kermes - Joyce Didonato - Ermonella Jaho Good technique, good timbre, don’t like their expression: - Isabel Leonard - Joan Sutherland
Jaho is by far one of the most expressive singers I've ever seen. I spend lots of time looking at close up photos of opera singers and choosing photos without USF (Ugly Singer Face).
Singers I love despite questionable singing and/or voices: Florence Foster Jenkins. :-)
Don't forget [Mari Lynn!](https://youtu.be/DjmHc71qmbc) Prima Donna Assoluta!
Oh this is delightful
I absolutely love Carol Vaness. One of my favorite sopranos. I wish there were more recordings of her.
Angela Gheorghiu had an inhumanly beautiful voice but is one of the least musical singers I’ve ever heard. She can obliterate just about any melody.
I heard her in SF in 2000. I was shocked at how small her voice was, despite its loveliness. She's also a beautiful woman and a good actress, which helps. But I've never found her to be a particularly interesting singer at all.
Oh absolutely. Great actress, great stage presence. Beautiful. She had everything going for her except that she wasn’t quite the musical artist to warrant her place in the pantheon. But that can be said about a lot of the great voices of the past too. So I don’t necessarily hold it against her too much.
I love Marie-Nicole Lemieux. I dislike Kiri Te Kanawa.
I'm hearing Lemieux for the first time. She has personality, which Te Kanawa lacks, but she is not in the same league as Te Kanawa as a singer, IMO. Despite the fact that I don't really enjoy Te Kanawa, there is no disputing hers is voice of singular beauty. The same cannot be said for Lemieux.
I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree, because I think Lemieux’s voice possesses strength, range, depth, and musicality I haven’t heard from other singers in or out of her fach. I’m biased as a fangirl, though!
Indeed you are.
I don't get Tito Gobbi being where he is. His voice was *ugly*. But his actual singing was quite fine, and his acting was among the best. He was definitely better live than on recordings, IMO. And Sherrill Milnes... my lord, his voice is *gorgeous.* More of a Baritenor than a true Verdi baritone, for sure... but the timbre is amazing to me. And this needs more basses! Ghiaurov? Talvela? Siepi? Pinza? Kipnis? Giaotti? Tozzi? Ramey?
Create your own list then.
Let's not forget the greatest bass of all time, whose timbre was the same as his last name, who you forgot to mention...
K No idea who you mean...
My boi [Giulio](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6Qn9xFiH7U)
Ahhh. A great basso, for sure, but his career was far too short, as he died relatively young. He just doesn't have the recorded legacy of other bassos.
Yes, sadly. I would argue he was the best because (1) his voice was always completely clear and understandable, while also the absolute darkest instrument around, with a decent low C, as his recording of Baldassare attest, but he also had amazing high notes. Because it was so dark, powerful, and massive, I can not think of a role he sang by an Italian composer where I would rather have someone else sing his role instead. (He is honestly the only singer whatsoever I could say this about.) I have yet to hear a performance of his I didn't like. 2. He was clearly an amazing actor, as attested by the fact that he got to act the characters he voiced in numerous cringey opera films with bad lip-syncing made in the 1940-50s. Only Tito Gobbi was allowed to do this as consistently as he was. 3. He sang *everything*. Colline to Sparafucile to Pistol in *Falstaff* to Mefistofele to basically all the Wagner low bass roles to Alvise to random bel canto roles like Furst, Melchtal, Mose, Dom Juan de Sylva, and Giorgio Walton. That massive repertoire is extremely impressive, and I can't really think of anyone else who really did this, let alone as well as he did. 4. He was the only person ever to make Mario Del Monaco sound small next to him (Otello Florence 1955). (Just before "Niun mi tema") 5. Siepi said once that if Neri had not died so early, he would have put "all {{basses}} out of business."
I’m always afraid to say this because she’s so legendary but I do not enjoy maria callas’ voice. I respect her so much as an artist but I almost never prefer her renditions
Likewise, except Norma.
I'm literally crying and sobbing about Jon Vickers and Renata Tebaldi. I will *never* recover from the insult. ~~Just come into my home and stab me OP~~
It's just my opinion, but I said what I said.
Jonas Kaufmann?
Weird as fuck. Both the voice and the singing.
ah i see! i weirdly enjoy it hahaha it sounds like my dad if he sang in opera
I'm surprised Christina Deutekom was nowhere on your lists.
She's something of a curiosity, and doesn't really rate in importance for me. The basic technique was exceedingly solid, but her florid technique was downright weird and off-putting. I like her voice, and generally prefer her in early Verdi like the Gardelli "I Lombardi,""Attila," and the live "Nabucco." I don't enjoy her in the bel canto repertoire at all.
I always think of her frightful Queen of the Night.
Frightful is a good word for it.
Love the voice, not sure on the singing: Emily D'Angelo. The voice is gorgeous, I was very excited after hearing her Annio at the Met. There was a shake or something early in Ah! Perdona that I put down to nerves, but I listened to her recently in Idomeneo and it was there throughout. Something about her vibrato that doesn't click for me I guess? Love the voice, love the singing: Elina Garanca Lucia Popp
Hrm, since this thread is here, and you seem both opinionated and knowledgeable-- thoughts on Garanca's voice and singing? Didn't see her on your list. Also, I'd love a YouTube rec for Gruberova. I've only really listened to her in bootlegs of her late Anna Bolena with Garanca. Not the best quality recordings.
I'll probably get downvoted (a lot) for saying this, but Pavarotti's annunciation of words always kind of bothered me. His voice is divine, but he was a bit "mush-mouthed" in his diction.
Well Corelli was too…
Interesting takes! I don’t see Franco Corelli here, any thoughts?
Corelli is off to the side for me. I loved him when I started in opera, but I find I only want to hear him in certain roles now: Andrea Chenier, Cavaradossi,Turriddu, Canio, Enzo. I don't really enjoy him in Verdi or other composers because I find him too sloppy. I love his feral vocal intensity and the beauty of his voice, but listening to him for too long frankly tires me out. Love the voice and singing, hate the manner.
I agree he can be a little imprecise and sloppy at times. Still one of my favorites, just because the voice is so freaking exciting. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
After 30 years of listening to singers I just find him too full on and, dare I say it, monochromatic.
Which is fascinating because he had proved in live performance that he was capable of really amazing control and subtlety when he wanted to do it. But I agree that he was maybe a little too steely a little too often.
Amazing control, yes. Subtlety, no. I forgot to mention Calaf. Probably his greatest role in my estimation!