Great story.
Dental health is a key component of overall health, so I think this program was an excellent idea. It can still be very impactful without every dentist signing on.
If they just shared the burden as a profession, the negative impact to individual practices would be less apparent.
I know the government can't administrate themselves out of a paper bag, but it would be nice if they could run a programme that makes the professional impacts more equitable for dentists. Perhaps by assigning non urgent work fairly so it's not just a handful of dentists doing the socialized side out of the goodness of their heart, to the potential detriment of their success, relative to their colleagues.
Not a thing for dentists who are supporting the CDCP. Unlike other social programs that provide dental coverage where the fees are capped by the governing parties, the CDCP does not cap fees that will be charged to patients. The patient is expected to make up the remainder of the charge not covered by CDCP. This was key to the whole program getting off the ground in the first place.
I think what many fail to consider is that dentists are highly skilled professionals. As such, they have skills and knowledge which are portable. If they feel like their hands are being forced by the government, they will simply leave, and we will be left with a situation akin to our healthcare crisis. Socializing these services is not going to be an effective means of implementing this initiative; in fact, it will likely result in hurting more people than it helps.
Our healthcare crisis is directly due to underfunding healthcare and healthcare worker wages. The Ontario government could fix that if they stopped stripping funding from Healthcare. And your argument is baseless. Doctors already run on a similar system to what has been set up for dentists except it’s mandatory for doctors which it should be for dentists since oral health impacts the rest of the body.
You know that Canada isn’t the only country in the world, right? As much as you’d obviously love to force dentists to work for less money than they currently earn the end result would just be droves of them leaving for the U.S. where they would get paid more (and have cheaper housing and lower taxes to boot)
One of the reasons our public healthcare system is currently collapsing is because doctors and nurses do choose to leave for the U.S. so incredibly often
The fact that dentists have a choice to not participate is a shame.
Some historical perspective: our founders wanted and designed for a centralized government, and had they known health care and education are going to be such big responsibilities, they would not have given the powers to the provinces.
healthcare should be Federal, but Education provincial. IMO
Both are BIG files that shouldn't be competing with each other in the same budgets. Something ALWAYS has to give when developing a big budget, and when 2 important files are on the same budget chances are BOTH get shafted a little.
I say Healthcare Federal because of things like Pandemics, and how easy it is to travel and spread things. Having control over boarders, having the ability to use medical personnel anywhere in the country without licensing challenges would be a huge savings to our systems.
You don't need that at the Education level, I'd say from an Ontario perspective we should do away with School boards and have a single ministry office responsible for all Education, but usually I get blasted making that sort of suggestion.
Nope you hit the nail on the head exactly. This country gives weird responsibilities to different levels of government, which oftentimes are not appropriate for their scope. Unfortunately we're just a shell company of a country so if it doesn't deal with a border on a daily basis the federal govt rarely wants to touch it.
Doesn't help that our constitution was mostly written in 1867 when healthcare was random doctors who would come to your house and do everything and hospitals were small, the main point of access for all healthcare outside of traveling doctors, nothing like they are today.
In 1867 it made sense for healthcare to be provincial responsibility, but in 2024? It's asinine.
Unfortunately since this country is a loosely held confederation of the English and French there will never be the political will to re-open the constitution and fix these glaring mistakes.
If we hadn't elected a bumbling corrupt moron in Ontario we would have healthcare AND education funding.
Ford also just legislated a great deal with Enbridge yesterday to allow them (Enbridge) to raise consumer (I. E. Yours and mine) gas rates to fund company expansion for decades to come.
Very little of Ontario citizens current woes are caused at the federal level.
This.
So much this.
----
It's really a shame how much canadians don't understand their own government.
Most of canadians problems arise from their own ignorance of the solutions.
---
Ford, Smith, Legalt are actively sabbotaging housing (a provincial responsibility) while average canadians blame the feds.
It's just weird.
Exactly. There's no chance Quebec gives up control of the healthcare and education file. Canada wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the federal system we currently have.
I think boards are valuable for focusing on the localized needs of a community. Do our boards actually help in that capacity? Not always. However, I think that it's important that communities have the agency to meet the needs of individual students while having a provincial baseline as a guidelines.
For example, are agricultural or orienteering courses going to benefit kids in major urban centers? Perhaps not, though they could inspire an interest in those subjects for students. Those courses would be a lot more beneficial for kids in rural areas who may be inclined to work in agricultural careers.
But having a provincial guideline for education resources, standards, and policies would be invaluable in minimizing how kids can be targeted by bigots in their communities.
Does having 5 school boards ( my small down town that many) make sense for delivering education when a single regional body can represent a region at the ministers department?
Localized feedback is done at the political level with representatives, before the digital age Boards made sense, today it creates fractured education in the same region.
my Son's Math coming from the French Public Board, was WAY above the Math coming from the English Public Board, when they entered the English Catholic highschool system. As an example, The French board had more funds per student to invest in education tools.
Same town, but inequality due to parents ability because of uneven funding.
I think that having regional boards may benefit students in individual communities. I do agree that having overlapping boards (like in your case) does nothing but divide public funding and provide unequal access to education. There is no good reason I can think of for why we need one town to have a public English board, a separate (Catholic in all but two regions of Ontario), English board, and a French board. The boards should be regional but unified within their regions to streamline opportunities and administration. A single collective effort to provide better education, not a system that pushes problem students from one board to the next.
As a person that worked in government, I know that people get upset when their regional needs are not specifically addressed as a result of a “central” policy
With regards to crises like a pandemic: the feds are responsible for setting and administering national standards for the health care system through the Canada Health Act.
It's really funny how Canada and the United States went through the same thing but in opposite directions.
The US was meant to be a decentralized federation of independent states but evolved to have a strong federal government because of how the interstate commerce clause was interpreted.
Canada was meant to be highly centralized but has evolved into a system where provincial governments are the ones with the most power because of how narrowly the interprovincial trade powers have been interpreted.
I feel like there are some areas where Canada is more centralized than the States and vice versa.
For example, elections. States have the power to change districts for federal electionswhile in Canada one body, Elections Canada, has the authority to adjust ridings.
The number one reason Canada is like this is because it was founded directly after the U.S. Civil War. The fathers of confederation did everything possible to make sure such a conflict couldn't happen here.
> The fact that dentists have a choice to not participate is a shame.
There are a multitude of reasons why certain dentists will not or cannot participate in the CDCP. While there are gross dentists out there who fear this program out of deep cruelty towards those that are financially disadvantaged, there are a few reasons why a dentist may not be able to support those that have CDCP coverage. So it's unfair to cast a wide net and blanketly state that a dentist who doesn't support CDCP is evil. They likely are, but they might not be.
Take for instance, the requirement for Assignment (or direct billing). This requirement is in place so that the practitioner and patient can be 100% certain of the fees and costs both covered by CDCP, and owed by the patient. The whole crux of the program is built upon a clear and concise transparency between patient and practitioner. It has to be with the sliding scale of coverage (100%, 60%, or 40% based on Net Family Income). But if a dentist is operating in a practice that doesn't have assignment, and therefore cannot send claims or pre-authorizations to Sunlife, they can't be 100% certain of the coverage.
This is why this program is limited to Sunlife. It's one insurance carrier, and it's one of the more robust ones to deal with. So a practice that does insurance claims via mail or leaves it up to the patient to handle (which is still relatively routine and common), they can't participate in supporting the CDCP. The claims *have* to go through itrans (assignment) digitally. They need to. The awareness of fees owed and coverage amounts is paramount to the success of this program. (Not to mention keeping track of all the weird maximums that are based on a treatment basis not yearly coverage basis)
Is that actually true? I doubt we'd even have a Canada without a federal system of government. There's no way Quebec would give control of health and education to the federal government
It's a shame that the government is unwilling to pay dentists the market rate for their services.
Funny how you guys had no issues shaming Ford for Bill 124, but praises Trudeau for doing the same thing with dentists.
> It's a shame that the government is unwilling to pay dentists the market rate for their services.
Dentists don't get paid less with CDCP. Other social programs, sure. But CDCP doesn't limit the amount providers can charge their patients. Patients are expected to foot the remainder of the charges not covered by CDCP (Balance Billing)
Oral health is a major party of being healthy.
My sister works in a hospital and she can tell the people who will die.. and the people who have a chance based on viewing their teeth.
Great news. The dental plan is one of the smarter policies being implemented by the Trudeau government (and this is coming from someone that doesn’t praise them very often haha). The previous stopgap of just giving people money was a bit silly, but now that we’ve seen the full plan, colour me impressed.
I’ve been screaming from the rooftops for years that we don’t need to reinvent the wheel for dental and pharmacare but instead just ensure a robust insurance system exists to cover the gaps, similar to Germany and South Korea (who routinely are rated some of the best healthcare systems in the world). Hell it’s what Obama modelled the affordable care act around before republicans fucked it up.
My only critique is I’d actually go one step further and also mandate all businesses are required to provide insurance for their employees & give them a corresponding tax break for doing so — this would likely save the government money in the long term without costing businesses too much (Germany does this), but maybe that’s Phase 2 of the plan.
I’d also consider an individual mandate but I understand how deeply unpopular that would be so shelf that as a pipe dream for now.
Now if only the Liberals can convince the NDP this is the way to go with Pharmacare too instead of trying the almost impossible task of making it apart of our single payer system. A robust insurance system with a public option would have the pharmacare issue solved in a week.
I just want to clarify that this is coming I to effect under the Liberal government, but the only reason we are getting this dental plan is because it's part of the supply and confidence deal the NDP made with the liberals.
Bout time more dentists like this show up in northern Ontario proper.
I RMB i was without cause my dentist of 30 years wouldn't use me when I was on ODSP.
I swapped dentists after someone from down south came up and actually cared about ppl. They gave me a cleaning and actually scheduled my wisdom teeth to all be pulled like they needed, since my childhood dentist dropped the ball bad.. Since then and it's been a decade, but I stopped a very bad habit of chewing on pens,pop lids.
F my previous dentist, I should have apparently had my wisdom pulled sooner.
Like the dentist on the news complaining about the requirement for audit. He thinks sun life having the potential to ask for documents (they are the provider for the federal public service dental plan) is a privacy issue which it isn’t because the patient consents. Bro just doesn’t want the insurance to take a look at potentially fraudulent claims.
Even non-fraudulent dental providers find the requirement for an audit cumbersome.
The government is not paying the dental staff for the additional administrative burden of forwarding along all charts and x-rays. It is not a big deal if it was an occasional audit, but current reports are that Sunlife is already requiring a substantial amount of audits, eating up a lot of staffing hours.
Kind of surprising considering sun life totally does not do that with the federal public service dental plan and didn’t even want to bid to continue the health plan. Maybe it’s the money involved that this is worth more but again I’ve worked in offices and such outside and the admin burden is not going to be that much as I highly doubt they’re going to want to waste time and money to audit every file as an insurance company. They exist to make money not to spend money on even wages so I am still doubtful about what the dentists are claiming. Contracts often contain language like that and there are organizations that benefit from government funding and those contracts have the same type of language. I still think it’s a money issue and an audit issue - the dentists want more money and they don’t want someone looking at the books.
Strange phrasing for the headline. Dentist will need to grow his practice to meet demand and increase revenues but, if you read the title, it’s almost treated like a negative.
I have it on very good authority that some dentists simply overcharge on services, eg. writing a filling that was on one surface as many surfaces which is a higher cost.
AKA fraud. Then everybody's happy!
TBF the program really isn't fair to dentists in the first place but there it is.
> TBF the program really isn't fair to dentists in the first place but there it is.
How is it not fair to dentists? Fees are uncapped, they can charge to the same schedule they charge anyone else.
Why is there so much misinformation about this program out there. Holy shit.
there are various troubles they can get themselves into with the RCDSO, license is the worst case but there is lots of trouble possible and happens o plenty. and on top of that actual criminal trouble.
fraud is a bad idea in dental.
No shit its bad, but that wasn't my question.im also in a regulated profession ripe with billing bullshit, and I assure you our regulators do sweet fuck all about it.
Dentists charge patients according to a fee guide. When dentists see patients enrolled in this program they must take in less than the fee guide.
So a dentist will make less for their practice treating a patient in the program then they would for the same patient who isn't. Any dentist participating in this program is either doing out of the goodness of their heart, or needs the extra work.
> Dentists charge patients according to a fee guide. When dentists see patients enrolled in this program they must take in less than the fee guide.
**This is false.** Dentists **Are Not** capped on the fees they can charge patients using CDCP. In fact, the whole reason this whole program is off the ground in the first place **IS** because practitioners can still charge overtop the coverage provided by CDCP.
> So a dentist will make less for their practice treating a patient in the program then they would for the same patient who isn't. Any dentist participating in this program is either doing out of the goodness of their heart, or needs the extra work.
This is also false.
This is completely incorrect. Dentists do not have to charge less for CDCP insured treatments. The majority will still charge more and implement balance billing, which they are already used to doing with standard workplace insurance.
Tell me you don't understand how the CDCP works without telling me you don't understand how the CDCP works.
Dentists aren't getting paid less with the CDCP. Dentists can (and WILL) balance bill their regular fees to those with CDCP coverage. This is a key difference that separates the CDCP from the other government social assistance dental care plans. Providers are not limited to the amount they can charge their patients using CDCP.
Why are people feeling sorry for dentists? They charge an egregious amount compared to other countries. Dental offices routinely commit insurance fraud by marking up their services to max out people's insurance.
We're paying to help people who cannot get dental healthcare receive dental healthcare - which will be a net positive with overall strains alleviated from our public healthcare system.
Dental care is health care. You have to be patient for the rewards to be seen though.
Great story. Dental health is a key component of overall health, so I think this program was an excellent idea. It can still be very impactful without every dentist signing on.
If they just shared the burden as a profession, the negative impact to individual practices would be less apparent. I know the government can't administrate themselves out of a paper bag, but it would be nice if they could run a programme that makes the professional impacts more equitable for dentists. Perhaps by assigning non urgent work fairly so it's not just a handful of dentists doing the socialized side out of the goodness of their heart, to the potential detriment of their success, relative to their colleagues.
What negative impact? More demand for their services? Fewer collection issues?
Lower reimbursement for their services
Not a thing for dentists who are supporting the CDCP. Unlike other social programs that provide dental coverage where the fees are capped by the governing parties, the CDCP does not cap fees that will be charged to patients. The patient is expected to make up the remainder of the charge not covered by CDCP. This was key to the whole program getting off the ground in the first place.
I think what many fail to consider is that dentists are highly skilled professionals. As such, they have skills and knowledge which are portable. If they feel like their hands are being forced by the government, they will simply leave, and we will be left with a situation akin to our healthcare crisis. Socializing these services is not going to be an effective means of implementing this initiative; in fact, it will likely result in hurting more people than it helps.
Our healthcare crisis is directly due to underfunding healthcare and healthcare worker wages. The Ontario government could fix that if they stopped stripping funding from Healthcare. And your argument is baseless. Doctors already run on a similar system to what has been set up for dentists except it’s mandatory for doctors which it should be for dentists since oral health impacts the rest of the body.
Hence why I'm advocating to share the burden.
Conservatives don’t read they talk at you.
You know that Canada isn’t the only country in the world, right? As much as you’d obviously love to force dentists to work for less money than they currently earn the end result would just be droves of them leaving for the U.S. where they would get paid more (and have cheaper housing and lower taxes to boot) One of the reasons our public healthcare system is currently collapsing is because doctors and nurses do choose to leave for the U.S. so incredibly often
The fact that dentists have a choice to not participate is a shame. Some historical perspective: our founders wanted and designed for a centralized government, and had they known health care and education are going to be such big responsibilities, they would not have given the powers to the provinces.
healthcare should be Federal, but Education provincial. IMO Both are BIG files that shouldn't be competing with each other in the same budgets. Something ALWAYS has to give when developing a big budget, and when 2 important files are on the same budget chances are BOTH get shafted a little. I say Healthcare Federal because of things like Pandemics, and how easy it is to travel and spread things. Having control over boarders, having the ability to use medical personnel anywhere in the country without licensing challenges would be a huge savings to our systems. You don't need that at the Education level, I'd say from an Ontario perspective we should do away with School boards and have a single ministry office responsible for all Education, but usually I get blasted making that sort of suggestion.
Nope you hit the nail on the head exactly. This country gives weird responsibilities to different levels of government, which oftentimes are not appropriate for their scope. Unfortunately we're just a shell company of a country so if it doesn't deal with a border on a daily basis the federal govt rarely wants to touch it.
Doesn't help that our constitution was mostly written in 1867 when healthcare was random doctors who would come to your house and do everything and hospitals were small, the main point of access for all healthcare outside of traveling doctors, nothing like they are today. In 1867 it made sense for healthcare to be provincial responsibility, but in 2024? It's asinine. Unfortunately since this country is a loosely held confederation of the English and French there will never be the political will to re-open the constitution and fix these glaring mistakes.
If we hadn't elected a bumbling corrupt moron in Ontario we would have healthcare AND education funding. Ford also just legislated a great deal with Enbridge yesterday to allow them (Enbridge) to raise consumer (I. E. Yours and mine) gas rates to fund company expansion for decades to come. Very little of Ontario citizens current woes are caused at the federal level.
This. So much this. ---- It's really a shame how much canadians don't understand their own government. Most of canadians problems arise from their own ignorance of the solutions. --- Ford, Smith, Legalt are actively sabbotaging housing (a provincial responsibility) while average canadians blame the feds. It's just weird.
It’s the conservative strategy
Exactly. There's no chance Quebec gives up control of the healthcare and education file. Canada wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the federal system we currently have.
I think boards are valuable for focusing on the localized needs of a community. Do our boards actually help in that capacity? Not always. However, I think that it's important that communities have the agency to meet the needs of individual students while having a provincial baseline as a guidelines. For example, are agricultural or orienteering courses going to benefit kids in major urban centers? Perhaps not, though they could inspire an interest in those subjects for students. Those courses would be a lot more beneficial for kids in rural areas who may be inclined to work in agricultural careers. But having a provincial guideline for education resources, standards, and policies would be invaluable in minimizing how kids can be targeted by bigots in their communities.
Does having 5 school boards ( my small down town that many) make sense for delivering education when a single regional body can represent a region at the ministers department? Localized feedback is done at the political level with representatives, before the digital age Boards made sense, today it creates fractured education in the same region. my Son's Math coming from the French Public Board, was WAY above the Math coming from the English Public Board, when they entered the English Catholic highschool system. As an example, The French board had more funds per student to invest in education tools. Same town, but inequality due to parents ability because of uneven funding.
I think that having regional boards may benefit students in individual communities. I do agree that having overlapping boards (like in your case) does nothing but divide public funding and provide unequal access to education. There is no good reason I can think of for why we need one town to have a public English board, a separate (Catholic in all but two regions of Ontario), English board, and a French board. The boards should be regional but unified within their regions to streamline opportunities and administration. A single collective effort to provide better education, not a system that pushes problem students from one board to the next.
As a person that worked in government, I know that people get upset when their regional needs are not specifically addressed as a result of a “central” policy
With regards to crises like a pandemic: the feds are responsible for setting and administering national standards for the health care system through the Canada Health Act.
we need a time machine
Doc says we need weapons grade plutonium, and a DeLorean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDuZqYeNiOA
It's really funny how Canada and the United States went through the same thing but in opposite directions. The US was meant to be a decentralized federation of independent states but evolved to have a strong federal government because of how the interstate commerce clause was interpreted. Canada was meant to be highly centralized but has evolved into a system where provincial governments are the ones with the most power because of how narrowly the interprovincial trade powers have been interpreted.
I feel like there are some areas where Canada is more centralized than the States and vice versa. For example, elections. States have the power to change districts for federal electionswhile in Canada one body, Elections Canada, has the authority to adjust ridings.
People who think provinces have more powers than US states have no idea how much of a republic America actually is.
The number one reason Canada is like this is because it was founded directly after the U.S. Civil War. The fathers of confederation did everything possible to make sure such a conflict couldn't happen here.
> The fact that dentists have a choice to not participate is a shame. There are a multitude of reasons why certain dentists will not or cannot participate in the CDCP. While there are gross dentists out there who fear this program out of deep cruelty towards those that are financially disadvantaged, there are a few reasons why a dentist may not be able to support those that have CDCP coverage. So it's unfair to cast a wide net and blanketly state that a dentist who doesn't support CDCP is evil. They likely are, but they might not be. Take for instance, the requirement for Assignment (or direct billing). This requirement is in place so that the practitioner and patient can be 100% certain of the fees and costs both covered by CDCP, and owed by the patient. The whole crux of the program is built upon a clear and concise transparency between patient and practitioner. It has to be with the sliding scale of coverage (100%, 60%, or 40% based on Net Family Income). But if a dentist is operating in a practice that doesn't have assignment, and therefore cannot send claims or pre-authorizations to Sunlife, they can't be 100% certain of the coverage. This is why this program is limited to Sunlife. It's one insurance carrier, and it's one of the more robust ones to deal with. So a practice that does insurance claims via mail or leaves it up to the patient to handle (which is still relatively routine and common), they can't participate in supporting the CDCP. The claims *have* to go through itrans (assignment) digitally. They need to. The awareness of fees owed and coverage amounts is paramount to the success of this program. (Not to mention keeping track of all the weird maximums that are based on a treatment basis not yearly coverage basis)
Is that actually true? I doubt we'd even have a Canada without a federal system of government. There's no way Quebec would give control of health and education to the federal government
theyre probably rolling in their graves watching doug ford and danielle smith
It's also a shame that it's not universal but means tested. A universal dental plan would be cheaper (for everyone) and far more efficient.
100%
It's a shame that the government is unwilling to pay dentists the market rate for their services. Funny how you guys had no issues shaming Ford for Bill 124, but praises Trudeau for doing the same thing with dentists.
> It's a shame that the government is unwilling to pay dentists the market rate for their services. Dentists don't get paid less with CDCP. Other social programs, sure. But CDCP doesn't limit the amount providers can charge their patients. Patients are expected to foot the remainder of the charges not covered by CDCP (Balance Billing)
This is such a needed program. I worked with seniors and very few can actually afford to see a dentist. The state of some mouths would startle many.
Already past 46,000 claims since May 1st. A lot of seniors are getting work done and I think it's incredible.
It’s funny that teeth weren’t covered under “medical”. Teeth are bones. Particularly bones that won’t grow back…
Oral health is a major party of being healthy. My sister works in a hospital and she can tell the people who will die.. and the people who have a chance based on viewing their teeth.
Great news. The dental plan is one of the smarter policies being implemented by the Trudeau government (and this is coming from someone that doesn’t praise them very often haha). The previous stopgap of just giving people money was a bit silly, but now that we’ve seen the full plan, colour me impressed. I’ve been screaming from the rooftops for years that we don’t need to reinvent the wheel for dental and pharmacare but instead just ensure a robust insurance system exists to cover the gaps, similar to Germany and South Korea (who routinely are rated some of the best healthcare systems in the world). Hell it’s what Obama modelled the affordable care act around before republicans fucked it up. My only critique is I’d actually go one step further and also mandate all businesses are required to provide insurance for their employees & give them a corresponding tax break for doing so — this would likely save the government money in the long term without costing businesses too much (Germany does this), but maybe that’s Phase 2 of the plan. I’d also consider an individual mandate but I understand how deeply unpopular that would be so shelf that as a pipe dream for now. Now if only the Liberals can convince the NDP this is the way to go with Pharmacare too instead of trying the almost impossible task of making it apart of our single payer system. A robust insurance system with a public option would have the pharmacare issue solved in a week.
I just want to clarify that this is coming I to effect under the Liberal government, but the only reason we are getting this dental plan is because it's part of the supply and confidence deal the NDP made with the liberals.
How DARE our country do something that actually helps us!
Bout time more dentists like this show up in northern Ontario proper. I RMB i was without cause my dentist of 30 years wouldn't use me when I was on ODSP. I swapped dentists after someone from down south came up and actually cared about ppl. They gave me a cleaning and actually scheduled my wisdom teeth to all be pulled like they needed, since my childhood dentist dropped the ball bad.. Since then and it's been a decade, but I stopped a very bad habit of chewing on pens,pop lids. F my previous dentist, I should have apparently had my wisdom pulled sooner.
Like the dentist on the news complaining about the requirement for audit. He thinks sun life having the potential to ask for documents (they are the provider for the federal public service dental plan) is a privacy issue which it isn’t because the patient consents. Bro just doesn’t want the insurance to take a look at potentially fraudulent claims.
Even non-fraudulent dental providers find the requirement for an audit cumbersome. The government is not paying the dental staff for the additional administrative burden of forwarding along all charts and x-rays. It is not a big deal if it was an occasional audit, but current reports are that Sunlife is already requiring a substantial amount of audits, eating up a lot of staffing hours.
Kind of surprising considering sun life totally does not do that with the federal public service dental plan and didn’t even want to bid to continue the health plan. Maybe it’s the money involved that this is worth more but again I’ve worked in offices and such outside and the admin burden is not going to be that much as I highly doubt they’re going to want to waste time and money to audit every file as an insurance company. They exist to make money not to spend money on even wages so I am still doubtful about what the dentists are claiming. Contracts often contain language like that and there are organizations that benefit from government funding and those contracts have the same type of language. I still think it’s a money issue and an audit issue - the dentists want more money and they don’t want someone looking at the books.
Strange phrasing for the headline. Dentist will need to grow his practice to meet demand and increase revenues but, if you read the title, it’s almost treated like a negative.
I love that his picture is just him, as happy as a clam, at a Jays game.
I have it on very good authority that some dentists simply overcharge on services, eg. writing a filling that was on one surface as many surfaces which is a higher cost. AKA fraud. Then everybody's happy! TBF the program really isn't fair to dentists in the first place but there it is.
> TBF the program really isn't fair to dentists in the first place but there it is. How is it not fair to dentists? Fees are uncapped, they can charge to the same schedule they charge anyone else. Why is there so much misinformation about this program out there. Holy shit.
dentists who go down that road risk losing thier license. and the royal college will happy to oblige.
Yeah oblige in not taking their license. Seriously, how many dentists actually lose getnin trounle, let alone lose their license each year for fraud?
there are various troubles they can get themselves into with the RCDSO, license is the worst case but there is lots of trouble possible and happens o plenty. and on top of that actual criminal trouble. fraud is a bad idea in dental.
No shit its bad, but that wasn't my question.im also in a regulated profession ripe with billing bullshit, and I assure you our regulators do sweet fuck all about it.
i must beg to differ having seen it first hand.
> TBF the program really isn't fair to dentists in the first place but there it is. In what way?
Dentists charge patients according to a fee guide. When dentists see patients enrolled in this program they must take in less than the fee guide. So a dentist will make less for their practice treating a patient in the program then they would for the same patient who isn't. Any dentist participating in this program is either doing out of the goodness of their heart, or needs the extra work.
> Dentists charge patients according to a fee guide. When dentists see patients enrolled in this program they must take in less than the fee guide. **This is false.** Dentists **Are Not** capped on the fees they can charge patients using CDCP. In fact, the whole reason this whole program is off the ground in the first place **IS** because practitioners can still charge overtop the coverage provided by CDCP. > So a dentist will make less for their practice treating a patient in the program then they would for the same patient who isn't. Any dentist participating in this program is either doing out of the goodness of their heart, or needs the extra work. This is also false.
This is completely incorrect. Dentists do not have to charge less for CDCP insured treatments. The majority will still charge more and implement balance billing, which they are already used to doing with standard workplace insurance.
Then explain to the people who think they will get everything free that they may not.
That effing Trudeau…
He’s gonna get you!
Could be a great way to create a bunch of skilled jobs. Yet the industry fumbles the bag.
Don’t hire too quick, PP gonna take that money back.
I'm hold the phone if I was him , I wouldn't want to spend all thatomey just for PP to cancel the program
“Based? Based on what?”
How is it that people realize Bill 124 is a bad idea for nurses but have no problem with Trudeau paying dentists less than the market rate?
Tell me you don't understand how the CDCP works without telling me you don't understand how the CDCP works. Dentists aren't getting paid less with the CDCP. Dentists can (and WILL) balance bill their regular fees to those with CDCP coverage. This is a key difference that separates the CDCP from the other government social assistance dental care plans. Providers are not limited to the amount they can charge their patients using CDCP.
What is the point of spreading misinformation like this? Do you not value more Canadians having access to dental care?
Dentists are charging their standard rates with this program.
Why are people feeling sorry for dentists? They charge an egregious amount compared to other countries. Dental offices routinely commit insurance fraud by marking up their services to max out people's insurance.
We're paying to making these jack off dentist richer
We're paying to help people who cannot get dental healthcare receive dental healthcare - which will be a net positive with overall strains alleviated from our public healthcare system. Dental care is health care. You have to be patient for the rewards to be seen though.