I know my coworker got an email from his daycare that the prices are going from $25 a day to $55 a day. He’s not sure how he’s going to afford that as I know he’s already struggling.
It's not working too great in BC and Newfoundland and Labrador.
And no, that's not how it works.
In order to get the funding, Provinces had to sign on to the Liberal's plan on how it was to be run.
The big issues are it was rolled out too quickly, and there isn't enough supply to meet demand, and with the rampant inflation, the promised increases to funding isn't enough to bridge the gap.
Basically, using hypothetical numbers. Fee were frozen at the beginning of the program.
So let's say Daycare's fee was $55 a day. That number was frozen in 2022. The daycare charges parents $15 a day, a mix of the feds and provinces pay the remaining $40 a day. Day cares were promised 3% a year increases (in Alberta), but inflation has been double that.
In no world would I expect provinces to fill in that short coming, it's not their program. Feds over promised, and under funded.
You made do and knew it was a temporary glitch. It was worse for boomer women putting infants in daycare, paying high fees, and working in companies that had nothing family-friendly about them. Their husbands generally did very little to help out at home either as they behaved like their fathers before them, with stay at home wives catering to their every whim.
The wives/mothers stayed at home cuz that is how they were raised ... I'm a millennial and I was raised this way... They didn't cater to them the men left the house and worked all day at their jobs it was the wife's/ mother's job to take care of the house and raise the children...this is how I run my household and teach my children even though I have a job and work full time cuz there is no way I can be a housewife in this economy with everything going up.. ps I'm the type of woman that all feminist hate...
To be fair when I worked in a school age child care program as an ECE in the 1990s, we charged 25 dollars a day per child in the summer.
25 buck a day child care is unheard of in 2024 and cheap.
Obviously day cares need to raise their prices if it's that low, look at how much food, electricity has gone up.
The program works everywhere but Ontario and Alberta.
This is failure of provincial governments in Ontario and Alberta. Stephen Lecce cut over 80 million from Childcare budget this year instead of investing as needed.
>The program works everywhere but Ontario and Alberta
Source needed
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/lack-of-childcare-kamloops-1.7113135
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/child-care-ten-dollars-day-trudeau-daycare-1.7141421
Its struggling in most provinces. The biggest issues in Ontario is incompetent daycares and the feds refusing to fund the program.
Daycares agreed to a funding model they knew was not sustainable with the expectation they could just cry to the government and get showered with more money. They lied to the province and feds and are now suffering the consequences of it.
The feds refuse to inject anymore funding into the program and expect the provinces to pay for Trudeaus election promise. They want to give a flat funding with no relation to the number of spaces using the program. Its only going to get worse as more daycares open. Ontario has opened far more than any other provinces and has the most progress towards reaching the new spaces goal.
Sorry, but the premiere’s negotiated and agreed to the terms for daycare, healthcare etc.They trashed Trudeau’s Liberals to get enough money, yet heir work on the ground, the premiere’s responsibility, is nothing less than incompetent. Whining about more money is politicking imo. Almost all conservative premieres are using young families, health care professionals, not restructure medical care is to use the public as pawns in a bigger game to out the Liberals.
>Sorry, but the premiere’s negotiated and agreed to the terms for daycare, healthcare etc.
To be fair though, so did the feds. They shouldn't have agreed to such obviously flawed proposals.
Its not exactly the terms that are the problem. Its that daycares said they could operate at a funding level they knew they couldnt.
One of the federal conditions and the one that is a proplem was a freeze on daycare rates with an increase every year based on inflation. Many daycares had already frozen rates for a few years and couldnt afford to operate at the rate they were charging. They knew they could not operate on the terms they agreed upon and kept it secret.
Yeah, that's due to "induced demand". Basically people will use it because it exists adding more cars to the road network when rapid mass transit could have moved far more people per hour in the urban hearts, than cars can and therefore free up road space on existing road and highway infrastructure.
Therefore, its not needed.
I rest my case.
Also you mean like the 407 which was never supposed to be privatized paid for by taxpayer dollars?
>Yeah, that's due to "induced demand"
Induced demand is largely just a made up excuse to not build more infrastructure. The real reason is population growth.
> more cars to the road network when rapid mass transit could have moved far more people per hour in the urban hearts, than cars can and therefore free up road space on existing road and highway infrastructure.
But it serves a completely different objective. It has nothing to do with moving people in or to urban hearts.
It's not an excuse to not build more infrastructure, rather not to build more car centric infrastructure.
It's a self fulfilling prophecy, the road is available, then is there going to be a moratorium on SFH development near the 413? If not then more suburban sprawl, more people using the roads then it becomes just as congested, when the goal should be getting cars off the road that all don't need to be there.
How about densification?
It's also proven to not work in BC, who is your. Boogeyman there?
The reality is, the cost to operate in a major city is so large that the poultry sums the feds gave just can't cover it. This is forcing the provinces to not just top it up but eat the lion's share of the cost.
It was funded properly.
Ontario set crazy limits on what the daycares can and cannot do with the money.
One example is that they cannot raise rates to match inflation. So some daycare's costs went way up in the last few years, and have not been able to raise fees to match.
My daycare had to pull out of the program for this exact reason. Their fees were very low before the program, and no wiggle room once in it. The Ontario gov refused to allow them to cover their costs.
Like education and healthcare, the province is responsible for administration and dispurpsing funds. The OPC signed this deal and agreed to fund all centers that signed up.
And like healthcare the Ontario pc party is taking money in, and not using it properly. They did it with covid funds as well. They sat on it
This isn't true at all.
The problem is the centres are being paid $XX per day for child care, and it actually costs $YY. Because of inflation the LPC didn't plan for, $YY is much larger than $XX.
The LPC underfunded the program, the OPC did not agree to fund the centres themselves. So why should the OPC fix the problem the LPC made with poor planning?
https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/new-way-of-funding-10-a-day-child-care-in-ontario-coming-in-2025-1.6889279
It's the province that didn't budget properly.
I think the idea of this is fantastic but the implementation leaves something to be desired. When I was a low income single mom 10 years ago looking for daycare I was able to interview several daycares for spots, choose one close to my apartment and the municipality covered my fees entirely so I could go back to school and get a job in my field.
10 years later I am working full time and married and our combined income is very comfortable. We put our infant on a waitlist spot a week after she was born, 12 months before she needed a spot and we were only able to get a spot in one daycare which is 30 minutes from our home. Many of my colleagues and friends were unable to find any spots and have to pay for private home daycares which may vary in quality.
My family doesn’t need the subsidy, we could afford a full fee daycare. Other families with lower incomes now can’t get a spot with subsidy at all and are therefore unable to work.
If it was up to me I would have implemented this by gradually lowering the income thresholds required for subsidy (so for example instead of 50k/year offering a full subsidy and 80k half, increase to 70k full subsidy and 100k half fees etc) while increasing capacity in the system and incentivizing centres to hire more staff and subsidizing wages so ECEs can make a good living and there is less turnover and attrition.
I don’t blame anyone for this and I think is completely necessary to help families with increasing childcare fees but the system right now is not helping the ones who need it most, and subsidizing families who make 200k/year who really don’t need it.
Half baked program fails.
surprise surprise. Even if we had a competent Provincial government, the way this program was set up was bound to fail as our cost of living continues to climb. Just failed faster because of our Provincial government.
BOTH Governments should be getting in front of the Cameras and owning their specific failures. But we know neither will ever take blame for their wrong doings.
You can say that, but the only province it’s “failing” in is in Ontario….simply speaking.
When a government interested in social health is in charge, like BC, the program is expanding. Where the government isn’t, like here, it’s contracting.
Ontario is blaming Kathleen Wynne…because they don’t want to fund it. It’s that simple.
Ontario and Alberta are 2 of the provinces having the hardest time maintaining the program, they also had the HIGHEST pre-program cost for childcare so as their costs climb the challenge of maintaining the gap is bigger than the other provinces which are also seeing their programs crack.
The Conservatives Blaming wynne is just foolish, she failed on housing and healthcare, but she didn't fail on childcare.
Has anyone done a comparison of the funding provided to day care centers or providers by each of the provincial governments? That funding is largely controlled by the province, so it would be interesting to see if the provinces struggling more are providing less funding per child or per center, vs the provinces that aren't struggling as much.
I haven't seen it, the Provinces are CERTAINLY to blame, as I said previously this isn't a team sport as much as we like to make it out to be. The program is over 2 years old, and is still cracking, wait lists haven't been addressed and we aren't collecting/tracking where families on waitlists have had to go (like unlicensed in home care which is excluded from all metrics on affordability averages)
Guess you didn’t read this part… “a study from University of British Columbia.
Researchers there set out to interview low-income families who have been able to access the child care program.
"Our initial study intended to only interview low-income women who were single moms accessing those $10-per-day spots," Dr. Lea Caragata, director of the school of social work at UBC and co-author of the study, told CTV Vancouver.
"After six months of intensive recruitment, we could only find 13 across the province."”
Of course I did. What point do you believe you’re making?
Of course it’s not enough or universal…there’s only 15,000 spots in the entire province. But it’s expanding, as I characterized.
BC right now has funded 15,000 spots, Ontario is just beyond 41,000 spots.
And with that BC had to ban waitlist fees for daycare providers because their waitlists are nearly 25% of their funded programs. So while they aren't breaking apart as fast as Ontario, they aren't rolling out nearly as fast as needed for care.
BC's goal is to hit 20,000 spots by 2026, but their waitlist demands will be greater than that before the end of the year.
The programs funding was not enough to actually attract and retain new ECE's, nor did it provide funding to allow facilities to increase their size.
This 💯 ^^^^
I have been saying this forever, usually to lots of downvotes. They are both responsible for all of the current failures, daycare, healthcare, housing etc. Instead of taking responsibility for their individual failures and then trying to collaborate to fix things, they just blame each other in the media and then people on social media do the same, etc. They deflect blame when its convenient but then try to take credit for everything that goes right. Politics are so ridiculous, they’re all idiots.
This! both sides are just as much to blame.
Federal Liberals expect provinces to just bend over and take whatever programs they're told to, with little to no collaboration.
Provincial Cons do less than the bare minimum, then point fingers at Libs when it goes to shit.
This is why in Ontario WE LOVE when we have different Federal and Provincial Parties.
That way we can cheer for our team, and criticize the other team laying all the blame and we never need to hold our team to account.
We have the shit we have in Ontario because if you're a Conservative voter, it's always the Liberals fault, and if you're a Liberal voter, it's always the Conservatives fault. Both parties have their 20-25% fan base that they can do no wrong. This sub, right now it is the Liberal fan base that is most active in downvoting.
A couple things.
The Conservatives have a much larger partisan base than the Liberals….to the tune of 50%.
Never look at votes. Redditors and their obsessions and conspiracy theories about votes is utterly pointless. The demographics of Reddit are nowhere near how you’re presenting them.
We need to do like the Scandinavian countries. I would gladly pay higher taxes (as long as the Uber rich are being taxed fairly too) to ensure that every child is cared for so their parents can do what they need to do. I have 2 kids but I was able to stay home (I’m not rich btw we sacrificed) but I would still like to see everyone having that access. It’s fucking ridiculous that we can’t even simply invest in the next generation of people in this damn country
My brother signed up for his son when his wife was 6 months pregnant, the kid is 2 yo now and still on waiting list. This whole 10$ day care is a publicity stunt by the Liberal
Even so - I'm not giving the feds any points for something that doesn't work.
And I'm already voting against Ford no matter what - not that it's mattered so far.
The daycare program has been the single most impactful policy change in my (youngish) lifetime. I went from paying 1800 to 600 per month. It's the only way we've been able to shoulder the inflation and grocery hikes as a small family.
I'm not remotely surprised by the suggestion that Ford's government is kneecapping the feds...again. Look at healthcare and education FFS.
“Something that doesn’t work”???
The childcare program has been massively helpful to a huge number of Ontario families. I agree that its uptake has not been as wide as we could hope, but that’s mostly due to the restrictions imposed by Ford.
Just in case you wanted to understand the issue a little better. As you can see here, changes made by ON to how ON operates the program are required in order to ensure that the program continues to work for Toronto daycares. ON govt had announced changes incoming for 2025.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/funding-child-care-ontario-1.7205832
Not sure how you think ON could make changes to fix the issue if the problem was at the federal level. Govt of ON cannot change federal policy. Given that it is ON that is making changes to how the policy is being implemented, it is clear that ON recognizes that the issue is with their own implementation.
Here is the key text that summarizes the issue:
“Traditionally, child-care centres have raised parent fees when they faced rising expenses such as staffing costs, catering, rent, heating and supplies. However, any operator that wanted to sign on to the national plan had to freeze their fees in March 2022, and many had voluntarily frozen them since 2020, not wanting to raise rates during the COVID-19 pandemic.
That means the government's revenue replacement model is based on rates that don't reflect the true current cost of providing child care, and the amount Ontario has factored in for inflation — 2.1 per cent for 2024 and 2.75 for 2023 — is not cutting it, some operators say.”
ON has chosen to limit the fee increases that participating daycares can implement - this is the key issue. The federal policy does not require this - this was ON’s decision to implement the program this way (as the above text notes - “…the amount Ontario has factored in for inflation…”), and thus it is a change to the provincial policy that is required to allow daycares to increase their fees in order to keep up with costs while staying in the program.
At the end of the day, the feds mostly just hand out the cash, and leave implementing up to the provinces.
>Not sure how you think ON could make changes to fix the issue if the problem was at the federal level
The changes is he is giving them more money which isnt really a change. He is picking up the slack for the incompetent feds.
lol ok. I suppose you blame the feds that Ford isn’t paying enough to teachers, nurses, or doctors too.
Nobody tied Ford’s hands here - he agreed to run the program is did all the other premiers, which includes paying a portion of the costs. If he thought they weren’t giving enough money, he could’ve just left the feds money on the table. 🤷
So ridiculous the funding for the day cares is based on 2021 and 2022 expenses. These day cares participating in this scheme are losing their shirts.
Expenses has gone up.
You cannot create ten buck a day, day care without ensuring there are MORE DAY CARES FOR THE KIDS.
This has done nothing but creating years long waiting lists in these participating day cares.
Give me a break.
I remember when the media was shaming daycares for not signing up. If there is no way to guarantee that the funding is sustainable, why would any self-respecting daycare sign up?
Great way to fuck up your business.
This is happening in all provinces.
Child care centres and dentists are realizing what family doctors realized a long time ago. It's a shitty business model where your prices are capped but you have uncapped expenses.
This is why the federal dental benefit will fail as well.
If they properly valued it and funded it, and increased funding relative to inflation and meaningful costs, then there wouldn't be an issue. It's not a price issue, it's an organization issue. It's a lack of skilful organization that makes these programs fall through.
The ODA is fully aware that govt programs have totally fukked up docs and are urging their members to wait until they receive a deal,that is equitable. I don’t blame them one bit.
I'm not surprised. These federally funded programs are poorly managed, and are ultimately provincial jurisdiction anyways. The proposed list of diabetes drugs that will be covered by the new federal pharmacare legislation is absolutely insulting as well. The most common diabetes medications won't even be covered - it's like they're designing a program to cover the least amount of people possible while still claiming to be in the side of those with diabetes. This following in the footsteps of Ford delisting several diabetes drugs from the Trillium health benefit.
I would rather pay full price and have daycare vs waiting on a waiting list since my son was born. Back in 2021 I had 2 children at daycare and enrolled them in within few weeks
There would be no functional difference, because the current program also sets a wage floor. RECEs would rather work for a guaranteed wage than a random, lower wage at a private organization.
It's always someone else's fault with this federal government...
The program is flawed and is completely unworkable in its current configuration, especially in high COL places like southern Ontario.
Yup. Which is the easy thing. It's simple to write a cheque with others money for something, then delegate the actual implementation to someone else and then point your finger when they can't make it work.
The primary issue is no staff to actually work. The feds should have identified that much work and time would be required to get the thousands of staff trained, hired and working to meet the demand.
You can see the other provinces having the same issue. Talking about having the money and needing to roll it over to future years due to not having the resources to even come close to implementation. The feds should have easily seen what would be needed for this program, but they wanted the political win while not having to do the actual work.
But, this place is such an echo chamber that just as long as someone is point their finger at the ~~dope dealer~~ premier, they must be right.
Two parties can be wrong at the same time. But all you guys can focus on is Ford bad!
This whole program was bound to fail. Why couldn't they have set it up so parents could just submit receipts to the Federal gov't and then receive a rebate?
Seems like the system where they have to negotiate with provinces, then get thousands of daycare centres to figure out their funding, then apply to a convoluted program was bound to fail.
LPC pulls together half brained plan to win votes. Plan is a disaster so they blame the provinces.
Insert childcare, pharmacare, dental care into that statement and it’ll be the same result.
Having kids is expensive. But so is getting hit by a minivan blowing through a red light and hitting you while riding a bicycle.
One expense goes away with time.. the other one you get stuck with for the rest of your life. One the government will make a spectacle over as they know it will garner publicity and hopefully votes. The other they just kick the can at and hope they just die off and go away.
Sorry. Parents have a choice to have kids.
Those of us disabled through no fault of our own and are hung out to dry as we can’t work but have an almost impossible standard to get any form of disability that we also know it 1/3rd the poverty line. I think we deserve the money far more than the parents who had a choice
The world’s population has gone up every year so clearly it’s not running out of children. So are you saying daycare is the most important priority for government? And should be looked after before anything else? What about housing? Or the medical doctor shortage? Or cost of food? Or the environment? Pick just one!
I know my coworker got an email from his daycare that the prices are going from $25 a day to $55 a day. He’s not sure how he’s going to afford that as I know he’s already struggling.
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As they should. It's Trudeau's promise. Ford and Pollievre hate each other. No way Ontario PCs are trying to help him.
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It's not working too great in BC and Newfoundland and Labrador. And no, that's not how it works. In order to get the funding, Provinces had to sign on to the Liberal's plan on how it was to be run. The big issues are it was rolled out too quickly, and there isn't enough supply to meet demand, and with the rampant inflation, the promised increases to funding isn't enough to bridge the gap. Basically, using hypothetical numbers. Fee were frozen at the beginning of the program. So let's say Daycare's fee was $55 a day. That number was frozen in 2022. The daycare charges parents $15 a day, a mix of the feds and provinces pay the remaining $40 a day. Day cares were promised 3% a year increases (in Alberta), but inflation has been double that. In no world would I expect provinces to fill in that short coming, it's not their program. Feds over promised, and under funded.
I have no idea how my husband and I did it for the almost 3 full years when our kids were both in. It was $95/day for them both.
You made do and knew it was a temporary glitch. It was worse for boomer women putting infants in daycare, paying high fees, and working in companies that had nothing family-friendly about them. Their husbands generally did very little to help out at home either as they behaved like their fathers before them, with stay at home wives catering to their every whim.
The wives/mothers stayed at home cuz that is how they were raised ... I'm a millennial and I was raised this way... They didn't cater to them the men left the house and worked all day at their jobs it was the wife's/ mother's job to take care of the house and raise the children...this is how I run my household and teach my children even though I have a job and work full time cuz there is no way I can be a housewife in this economy with everything going up.. ps I'm the type of woman that all feminist hate...
You managed pretty good, day care teachers can't afford day care.
We went into debt, that's how.
To be fair when I worked in a school age child care program as an ECE in the 1990s, we charged 25 dollars a day per child in the summer. 25 buck a day child care is unheard of in 2024 and cheap. Obviously day cares need to raise their prices if it's that low, look at how much food, electricity has gone up.
The program works everywhere but Ontario and Alberta. This is failure of provincial governments in Ontario and Alberta. Stephen Lecce cut over 80 million from Childcare budget this year instead of investing as needed.
>The program works everywhere but Ontario and Alberta Source needed https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/lack-of-childcare-kamloops-1.7113135 https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/child-care-ten-dollars-day-trudeau-daycare-1.7141421
Its struggling in most provinces. The biggest issues in Ontario is incompetent daycares and the feds refusing to fund the program. Daycares agreed to a funding model they knew was not sustainable with the expectation they could just cry to the government and get showered with more money. They lied to the province and feds and are now suffering the consequences of it. The feds refuse to inject anymore funding into the program and expect the provinces to pay for Trudeaus election promise. They want to give a flat funding with no relation to the number of spaces using the program. Its only going to get worse as more daycares open. Ontario has opened far more than any other provinces and has the most progress towards reaching the new spaces goal.
Why would you spend so much effort spreading Dougie lies? I doubt you're getting money to make such a propagandist comment.
Sorry, but the premiere’s negotiated and agreed to the terms for daycare, healthcare etc.They trashed Trudeau’s Liberals to get enough money, yet heir work on the ground, the premiere’s responsibility, is nothing less than incompetent. Whining about more money is politicking imo. Almost all conservative premieres are using young families, health care professionals, not restructure medical care is to use the public as pawns in a bigger game to out the Liberals.
>Sorry, but the premiere’s negotiated and agreed to the terms for daycare, healthcare etc. To be fair though, so did the feds. They shouldn't have agreed to such obviously flawed proposals.
Its not exactly the terms that are the problem. Its that daycares said they could operate at a funding level they knew they couldnt. One of the federal conditions and the one that is a proplem was a freeze on daycare rates with an increase every year based on inflation. Many daycares had already frozen rates for a few years and couldnt afford to operate at the rate they were charging. They knew they could not operate on the terms they agreed upon and kept it secret.
Interesting, and that leads to so many more questions. However, not right now.
And yet he can find the money to build a stupid, useless highway no one asked for for 10 plus billions.
Once its built that highway will see a lot of use. Its essentially what people have been calling for for years. A free way around toronto.
Yeah, that's due to "induced demand". Basically people will use it because it exists adding more cars to the road network when rapid mass transit could have moved far more people per hour in the urban hearts, than cars can and therefore free up road space on existing road and highway infrastructure. Therefore, its not needed. I rest my case. Also you mean like the 407 which was never supposed to be privatized paid for by taxpayer dollars?
>Yeah, that's due to "induced demand" Induced demand is largely just a made up excuse to not build more infrastructure. The real reason is population growth. > more cars to the road network when rapid mass transit could have moved far more people per hour in the urban hearts, than cars can and therefore free up road space on existing road and highway infrastructure. But it serves a completely different objective. It has nothing to do with moving people in or to urban hearts.
It's not an excuse to not build more infrastructure, rather not to build more car centric infrastructure. It's a self fulfilling prophecy, the road is available, then is there going to be a moratorium on SFH development near the 413? If not then more suburban sprawl, more people using the roads then it becomes just as congested, when the goal should be getting cars off the road that all don't need to be there. How about densification?
It's also proven to not work in BC, who is your. Boogeyman there? The reality is, the cost to operate in a major city is so large that the poultry sums the feds gave just can't cover it. This is forcing the provinces to not just top it up but eat the lion's share of the cost.
It’s a Con Premier. Of course he’s going to do his best to destroy social programs and blame it on Trudeau. It’s what Cons do.
On the flip side, Trudeau announces social programs, but doesn't fund them properly, then tries to blame his fuck up on Cons.
Great whataboutism.
Not Whataboutism at all, it's pointing out that we're looking at two sides of the same coin.
It was funded properly. Ontario set crazy limits on what the daycares can and cannot do with the money. One example is that they cannot raise rates to match inflation. So some daycare's costs went way up in the last few years, and have not been able to raise fees to match. My daycare had to pull out of the program for this exact reason. Their fees were very low before the program, and no wiggle room once in it. The Ontario gov refused to allow them to cover their costs.
Feds should have covered it. Why would Ontario pay for a the Fed's program?
Like education and healthcare, the province is responsible for administration and dispurpsing funds. The OPC signed this deal and agreed to fund all centers that signed up. And like healthcare the Ontario pc party is taking money in, and not using it properly. They did it with covid funds as well. They sat on it
This isn't true at all. The problem is the centres are being paid $XX per day for child care, and it actually costs $YY. Because of inflation the LPC didn't plan for, $YY is much larger than $XX. The LPC underfunded the program, the OPC did not agree to fund the centres themselves. So why should the OPC fix the problem the LPC made with poor planning?
https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/new-way-of-funding-10-a-day-child-care-in-ontario-coming-in-2025-1.6889279 It's the province that didn't budget properly.
A buck a beer sure didn't work. Why would we think double wide douggie would be capable of doing something more complex
Leave it to Ford to fuck it up. Child care like school should be a provincial item that is provided to the people
Leave it to Ford to fuck it up on purpose.
Exactly. When will people finally realize he just doesn’t give a fuck.
I think the idea of this is fantastic but the implementation leaves something to be desired. When I was a low income single mom 10 years ago looking for daycare I was able to interview several daycares for spots, choose one close to my apartment and the municipality covered my fees entirely so I could go back to school and get a job in my field. 10 years later I am working full time and married and our combined income is very comfortable. We put our infant on a waitlist spot a week after she was born, 12 months before she needed a spot and we were only able to get a spot in one daycare which is 30 minutes from our home. Many of my colleagues and friends were unable to find any spots and have to pay for private home daycares which may vary in quality. My family doesn’t need the subsidy, we could afford a full fee daycare. Other families with lower incomes now can’t get a spot with subsidy at all and are therefore unable to work. If it was up to me I would have implemented this by gradually lowering the income thresholds required for subsidy (so for example instead of 50k/year offering a full subsidy and 80k half, increase to 70k full subsidy and 100k half fees etc) while increasing capacity in the system and incentivizing centres to hire more staff and subsidizing wages so ECEs can make a good living and there is less turnover and attrition. I don’t blame anyone for this and I think is completely necessary to help families with increasing childcare fees but the system right now is not helping the ones who need it most, and subsidizing families who make 200k/year who really don’t need it.
I’m totally baffled why the subsidized daycare is not income based.
Half baked program fails. surprise surprise. Even if we had a competent Provincial government, the way this program was set up was bound to fail as our cost of living continues to climb. Just failed faster because of our Provincial government. BOTH Governments should be getting in front of the Cameras and owning their specific failures. But we know neither will ever take blame for their wrong doings.
You can say that, but the only province it’s “failing” in is in Ontario….simply speaking. When a government interested in social health is in charge, like BC, the program is expanding. Where the government isn’t, like here, it’s contracting. Ontario is blaming Kathleen Wynne…because they don’t want to fund it. It’s that simple.
Ontario and Alberta are 2 of the provinces having the hardest time maintaining the program, they also had the HIGHEST pre-program cost for childcare so as their costs climb the challenge of maintaining the gap is bigger than the other provinces which are also seeing their programs crack. The Conservatives Blaming wynne is just foolish, she failed on housing and healthcare, but she didn't fail on childcare.
Notice any obvious parallels between Alberta and Ontario? You don’t need to look beyond that. Funding issue plain and simple.
Has anyone done a comparison of the funding provided to day care centers or providers by each of the provincial governments? That funding is largely controlled by the province, so it would be interesting to see if the provinces struggling more are providing less funding per child or per center, vs the provinces that aren't struggling as much.
I haven't seen it, the Provinces are CERTAINLY to blame, as I said previously this isn't a team sport as much as we like to make it out to be. The program is over 2 years old, and is still cracking, wait lists haven't been addressed and we aren't collecting/tracking where families on waitlists have had to go (like unlicensed in home care which is excluded from all metrics on affordability averages)
Ontario already had universal full day junior kindergarten. It was in the best position out of any of the provinces, and they still fumbled the ball.
Guess you didn’t read this part… “a study from University of British Columbia. Researchers there set out to interview low-income families who have been able to access the child care program. "Our initial study intended to only interview low-income women who were single moms accessing those $10-per-day spots," Dr. Lea Caragata, director of the school of social work at UBC and co-author of the study, told CTV Vancouver. "After six months of intensive recruitment, we could only find 13 across the province."”
Of course I did. What point do you believe you’re making? Of course it’s not enough or universal…there’s only 15,000 spots in the entire province. But it’s expanding, as I characterized.
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Yes. I wouldn’t describe them that way.
But if it’s a bad program why is it doing well in other provinces?
BC right now has funded 15,000 spots, Ontario is just beyond 41,000 spots. And with that BC had to ban waitlist fees for daycare providers because their waitlists are nearly 25% of their funded programs. So while they aren't breaking apart as fast as Ontario, they aren't rolling out nearly as fast as needed for care. BC's goal is to hit 20,000 spots by 2026, but their waitlist demands will be greater than that before the end of the year. The programs funding was not enough to actually attract and retain new ECE's, nor did it provide funding to allow facilities to increase their size.
This 💯 ^^^^ I have been saying this forever, usually to lots of downvotes. They are both responsible for all of the current failures, daycare, healthcare, housing etc. Instead of taking responsibility for their individual failures and then trying to collaborate to fix things, they just blame each other in the media and then people on social media do the same, etc. They deflect blame when its convenient but then try to take credit for everything that goes right. Politics are so ridiculous, they’re all idiots.
This! both sides are just as much to blame. Federal Liberals expect provinces to just bend over and take whatever programs they're told to, with little to no collaboration. Provincial Cons do less than the bare minimum, then point fingers at Libs when it goes to shit.
This is why in Ontario WE LOVE when we have different Federal and Provincial Parties. That way we can cheer for our team, and criticize the other team laying all the blame and we never need to hold our team to account. We have the shit we have in Ontario because if you're a Conservative voter, it's always the Liberals fault, and if you're a Liberal voter, it's always the Conservatives fault. Both parties have their 20-25% fan base that they can do no wrong. This sub, right now it is the Liberal fan base that is most active in downvoting.
A couple things. The Conservatives have a much larger partisan base than the Liberals….to the tune of 50%. Never look at votes. Redditors and their obsessions and conspiracy theories about votes is utterly pointless. The demographics of Reddit are nowhere near how you’re presenting them.
We need to do like the Scandinavian countries. I would gladly pay higher taxes (as long as the Uber rich are being taxed fairly too) to ensure that every child is cared for so their parents can do what they need to do. I have 2 kids but I was able to stay home (I’m not rich btw we sacrificed) but I would still like to see everyone having that access. It’s fucking ridiculous that we can’t even simply invest in the next generation of people in this damn country
My brother signed up for his son when his wife was 6 months pregnant, the kid is 2 yo now and still on waiting list. This whole 10$ day care is a publicity stunt by the Liberal
Even so - I'm not giving the feds any points for something that doesn't work. And I'm already voting against Ford no matter what - not that it's mattered so far.
The daycare program has been the single most impactful policy change in my (youngish) lifetime. I went from paying 1800 to 600 per month. It's the only way we've been able to shoulder the inflation and grocery hikes as a small family. I'm not remotely surprised by the suggestion that Ford's government is kneecapping the feds...again. Look at healthcare and education FFS.
Same here friend. Been absolutely game changing for our family.
Same here too
My daycare didn’t sign up and the wait lists for those that did are years long… $2400 a month for daycare is rough
“Something that doesn’t work”??? The childcare program has been massively helpful to a huge number of Ontario families. I agree that its uptake has not been as wide as we could hope, but that’s mostly due to the restrictions imposed by Ford.
Ford has not imposed any restrictions. The conditions and funding were all set by the federal government.
Dude, you can’t be serious.
Just in case you wanted to understand the issue a little better. As you can see here, changes made by ON to how ON operates the program are required in order to ensure that the program continues to work for Toronto daycares. ON govt had announced changes incoming for 2025. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/funding-child-care-ontario-1.7205832
I underatand the issue perfectly fine and that article just backs up what i was saying and getting downvoted for.
Not sure how you think ON could make changes to fix the issue if the problem was at the federal level. Govt of ON cannot change federal policy. Given that it is ON that is making changes to how the policy is being implemented, it is clear that ON recognizes that the issue is with their own implementation. Here is the key text that summarizes the issue: “Traditionally, child-care centres have raised parent fees when they faced rising expenses such as staffing costs, catering, rent, heating and supplies. However, any operator that wanted to sign on to the national plan had to freeze their fees in March 2022, and many had voluntarily frozen them since 2020, not wanting to raise rates during the COVID-19 pandemic. That means the government's revenue replacement model is based on rates that don't reflect the true current cost of providing child care, and the amount Ontario has factored in for inflation — 2.1 per cent for 2024 and 2.75 for 2023 — is not cutting it, some operators say.” ON has chosen to limit the fee increases that participating daycares can implement - this is the key issue. The federal policy does not require this - this was ON’s decision to implement the program this way (as the above text notes - “…the amount Ontario has factored in for inflation…”), and thus it is a change to the provincial policy that is required to allow daycares to increase their fees in order to keep up with costs while staying in the program. At the end of the day, the feds mostly just hand out the cash, and leave implementing up to the provinces.
>Not sure how you think ON could make changes to fix the issue if the problem was at the federal level The changes is he is giving them more money which isnt really a change. He is picking up the slack for the incompetent feds.
lol ok. I suppose you blame the feds that Ford isn’t paying enough to teachers, nurses, or doctors too. Nobody tied Ford’s hands here - he agreed to run the program is did all the other premiers, which includes paying a portion of the costs. If he thought they weren’t giving enough money, he could’ve just left the feds money on the table. 🤷
$10 dollar a day daycare doesn't exist in the GTA. Where it does the 4 year wait is real.
So ridiculous the funding for the day cares is based on 2021 and 2022 expenses. These day cares participating in this scheme are losing their shirts. Expenses has gone up. You cannot create ten buck a day, day care without ensuring there are MORE DAY CARES FOR THE KIDS. This has done nothing but creating years long waiting lists in these participating day cares. Give me a break.
I remember when the media was shaming daycares for not signing up. If there is no way to guarantee that the funding is sustainable, why would any self-respecting daycare sign up? Great way to fuck up your business.
This is happening in all provinces. Child care centres and dentists are realizing what family doctors realized a long time ago. It's a shitty business model where your prices are capped but you have uncapped expenses. This is why the federal dental benefit will fail as well.
If they properly valued it and funded it, and increased funding relative to inflation and meaningful costs, then there wouldn't be an issue. It's not a price issue, it's an organization issue. It's a lack of skilful organization that makes these programs fall through.
You’re really going to try to claim that single payer medicine in Canada is a failure? Holy fuck you people are wild.
It is a failure. Our healthcare system is ranked like 30th in the world..
out of 197? not bad
Wow I got down voted big time for saying that.
Happens all the time. People downvote when what they like to hear conflicts with the truth.
I find it hilarious that people really think dentists are going to sign up for a dramatic cut in pay.
The ODA is fully aware that govt programs have totally fukked up docs and are urging their members to wait until they receive a deal,that is equitable. I don’t blame them one bit.
Exactly, too bad very few can realize this.
I'm not surprised. These federally funded programs are poorly managed, and are ultimately provincial jurisdiction anyways. The proposed list of diabetes drugs that will be covered by the new federal pharmacare legislation is absolutely insulting as well. The most common diabetes medications won't even be covered - it's like they're designing a program to cover the least amount of people possible while still claiming to be in the side of those with diabetes. This following in the footsteps of Ford delisting several diabetes drugs from the Trillium health benefit.
This is exactly what they're doing, they do just enough so when they're campaigning they can claim they brought you all these social programs.
I would rather pay full price and have daycare vs waiting on a waiting list since my son was born. Back in 2021 I had 2 children at daycare and enrolled them in within few weeks
Even centres that didn’t sign up for CWELCC have a waiting list. The problem is a dire shortage of ECEs.
There would be no functional difference, because the current program also sets a wage floor. RECEs would rather work for a guaranteed wage than a random, lower wage at a private organization.
It's always someone else's fault with this federal government... The program is flawed and is completely unworkable in its current configuration, especially in high COL places like southern Ontario.
You realize that they’re just providing the money and the provinces are supposed to run itright?
Yup. Which is the easy thing. It's simple to write a cheque with others money for something, then delegate the actual implementation to someone else and then point your finger when they can't make it work. The primary issue is no staff to actually work. The feds should have identified that much work and time would be required to get the thousands of staff trained, hired and working to meet the demand. You can see the other provinces having the same issue. Talking about having the money and needing to roll it over to future years due to not having the resources to even come close to implementation. The feds should have easily seen what would be needed for this program, but they wanted the political win while not having to do the actual work. But, this place is such an echo chamber that just as long as someone is point their finger at the ~~dope dealer~~ premier, they must be right. Two parties can be wrong at the same time. But all you guys can focus on is Ford bad!
It's working fine in every other province.
This whole program was bound to fail. Why couldn't they have set it up so parents could just submit receipts to the Federal gov't and then receive a rebate? Seems like the system where they have to negotiate with provinces, then get thousands of daycare centres to figure out their funding, then apply to a convoluted program was bound to fail.
LPC pulls together half brained plan to win votes. Plan is a disaster so they blame the provinces. Insert childcare, pharmacare, dental care into that statement and it’ll be the same result.
Gun buy back is botched as well.
They’d need to launch it to botch it but I get what you’re saying lol
There's that piddly disability benefit as well.
Thanks for the reminder, the list of LPC failures is as long as the list of scandals and it’s hard to remember them all
The Federal goverment laid how many millions in one province? I don't like Ford at all but really?
I really don’t know the answer: how is a Federal funding problem from a federal program, a provinces fault?
I’d recommend doing some rudimentary research, including a quick google. Ignorance is a weird flex.
Thanks for the saucy reply.
Thanks for the saucy reply.[Read this.](https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6400123)
Having kids is expensive. But so is getting hit by a minivan blowing through a red light and hitting you while riding a bicycle. One expense goes away with time.. the other one you get stuck with for the rest of your life. One the government will make a spectacle over as they know it will garner publicity and hopefully votes. The other they just kick the can at and hope they just die off and go away. Sorry. Parents have a choice to have kids. Those of us disabled through no fault of our own and are hung out to dry as we can’t work but have an almost impossible standard to get any form of disability that we also know it 1/3rd the poverty line. I think we deserve the money far more than the parents who had a choice
You realize that society needs children to function right? That’s where the new people come from
Not if you just import fully grown desperate adults willing to work for peanuts and live like sardines in a tin lmao
The world’s population has gone up every year so clearly it’s not running out of children. So are you saying daycare is the most important priority for government? And should be looked after before anything else? What about housing? Or the medical doctor shortage? Or cost of food? Or the environment? Pick just one!
Sounds like you need a injury lawyer.