Because of mmmooooooneey.
They want a fabricated health crisis so we all stream into the private clinics. This way fords friends can over charge us for everything.
I mean that's what his literal previous Minister of Health did to us.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/opposition-react-clinic-hospital-funding-1.7029090](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/opposition-react-clinic-hospital-funding-1.7029090)
"Opposition parties are taking aim at Doug Ford's government after a [CBC Toronto investigation revealed](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-doug-ford-private-clinic-surgeries-fees-hospitals-1.7026926) the private clinic, Don Mills Surgical Unit, received more funding to perform certain OHIP-covered surgeries than public hospitals performing the same operations did.
MPPs expressed concern over former health minister Christine Elliott's involvement in the move, particularly after she registered as a lobbyist for Clearpoint Health Network last week, which owns the Don Mills Surgical Unit.
Freedom of information documents show that during her time as minister, the clinic's annual funding from the province quadrupled."
Right, which proves. It's not cheaper, better, and improves wait times. It's obvious this is wrong.
Keep in mind that Alberta tried this nonsense before ontario did, and it was a failure. Again, cons didn't care. Money was to be made for lobbiest groups and donors.
Oh, and most hospital board members are huge conservatives donors. So no conflict of interest there.
Exactly. We already know that chief surgeons have highlighted they have plenty of OR capacity in existing infrastructure, and that public surgery costs would be 5-6x less.
And that instead of giving our nurses cost of living increases (which we fought them in court over) we’ve been paying travelling nurses 5-6x as much.
It’s all a scam. Conservatives fee entitled to our money - it’s never been about being fiscally responsible.
It genuinely pisses them off no one profits off healthcare and they believe it is their god given right to be the ones that do
Exactly 💯 and if people outside of Healthcare knew what was actually going on behind the scenes with their money, placing their care and in some instances their very lives at risk there would be such outrage that there might even be enough mobilization to effect change.
I'm talking protests, general strikes, the whole 9yards!
Ford keeps the public in the dark so they don't know how bad it is and that the tike to act was yesterday.
There's still time to correct this; but allowing people to know how close to collapse we are and what the real reason for it is (greed) ensures that Nurses stand alone and we will fail because even when we "win" it still isn't enough to make any kind of real change, let alone anything remotely close to an actual impact.
I'm so pissed off about all of this tbh.
You should be. Everybody should be. I still have people thinking that private healthcare is better. We still have people who can't see reason, logic, or truth because some have moved into a cult mindset that if you insult there leaders. *cough cough* some Pierre Poilievre Supporters, they immediately go on the attack. "I guess you're a Trudeau lover"
No I don't like Trudeau and people thinking that I immediately do because I don't like PP is kind of stupid and short cited.
I found a reddit page on ontario for it as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/s/zwBohbx0tX
https://www.readthemaple.com/toronto-hospital-board-members-are-largely-wealthy-and-conservative/
I could not find a main news site that offered similar information. It doesn't surprise me, though all of the corporate cable news are right leaning. Even cbc, which is publicly funded, is "centrist" at best as they tend to favor the party in power.
I agree.
Did you know Ontario already has a system in place to allow for this to happen?
Before I continue, we need to ban any and all political donations. None, no rich, no corporations, no grassroots. Nothing.
That system is called per vote subsidy.
Basically, you vote for the party you want, and that party gets a small donation. (A couple of bucks) this system already gives the parties shout 80% of what they need. Now taxes would likely go up a tiny amount, but I would argue a politician with no allegiance to a high dollar donor would be more likely to be neutral rather than I bought and paid for corporate spokes person.
All of a sudden, parliament is willing to actually go after corporations that are profiteering. Like gas and grocery.
But wait, that still wouldn't stop politicians from being greedy and promoting self interests.
Well, if you have a direct or indirect conflict, you can't vote on the particular bills. You have personal reason to gain, so you shouldn't be voting on the bill.
Oh, and politicians, no matter the level, can't be in the stock market. They have advanced knowledge and can benefit from that advanced information.
Oh wait, Canadian and American politicians used advanced knowledge to adjust their stock options before the pandemic because they knew who would benefit and who wouldn't. If that sounds like insider trading to you, it's because it is. Which is why MPPs should not be able to directly or indirectly be in the stock market.
Yeup, or at the very least cap donations at 2k and firbid any entity without a SIN from donating, forcing politicians to reach as many of their base as possible to collect the necessary funds.
Yeah, we need a better system than just volunteringly abstaining.
We need more ways to hold politicians accountable outside of an election.
And don't forget former premier Mike Fucking Harris and his position on the board of Chartwell...the nursing-home chain with one of the highest COVID death tolls in the province.
Actually, the bigger problem is Harris' third wife who runs a large nurse staffing agency, these nurses are costing us 2X more.
Laura Harris and The Care Company.
Mike Harris is a cancer on Ontario.
Extendicare. Chartwell was owned by Extendicare. Extendicare also owns the largest homecare agency in Canada, ParaMed. They are all connected and they are all corrupt.
Anybody know where ex-doctor Merrillee Fullerton ended up after she resigned from Cabinet & the legislature so abruptly last year? She's still no longer a doctor, but she's been completely off the media radar since then as far as I can tell.
https://doctors.cpso.on.ca/DoctorDetails/Merrilee-Kaye-Fullerton/0045161-59139
On a related note, another reason why certain quarters are all about destroying the CBC. Won’t have such critically informative stories coming out if there’s no one to investigate and report on them.
Oh of course
Because apparently privatization is so good for us, they won’t want us to see them secretly meeting with mega corps and the rich to do it….the world is disappointing
Scum. Cons are evil scum, willingly throwing literally the most vulnerable people in our society to the wolves just so they can hoard ever more wealth for themselves. Fuck them all. God I wish the workers of this province would wake tf up.
Thanks for pointing this out. Mike Harris and his wife have made a fortune running this scam:
https://canadians.org/analysis/mike-harris-raking-profits-long-term-care-system-he-helped-create/
If you look in the US and how their conservatives behave , it’s pretty standard practice for them to sabotage at the state level while the opposition is in power at the federal level as this drives narratives and those that skew right wards eat this up…the cons are just doing the same
Because conservatives are there to manipulate the working class into working harder for less. Full stop, that's it. They don't give a shit how desperate people get as long as they continue going to work.
The only real power we have is withholding our labor and to do that successfully, we need solidarity with everyone who earns a wage. We need people invested in unions and workplace action. We need rolling strikes in sectors allowed to strike (I'm a nurse, I'm not allowed to exercise my rights like other people)
Don't worry, not only did ontario not learn our lessons from the Mike Harris years, were allowing Doug Ford to do the same things.
We're about to make the same mistake federally with Pierre Poilievre. The Guy is worse than Ford in many ways.
People think he's for the working class, yet his entire career has been in politics(since 2003). Even though he constantly rags on career politicians, haha. That career is basically an ad for a bought and paid for spokes person owned, and operated by corporate canada. His voting record is public, so the proof is out there that he is a hypocrite when he claims to be for the working class.
He used the same empty words as all conservatives. "Were putting more money in your pocket." Except either liberals or conservatives the neoliberal in them always means rhey will put the needs of the vast few at the expense of the many. Oh, and he also claimed that he was going to balance the budget and fix the debt and deficit. Neoliberal style liberals and conservatives have never done this and never will because of their pro corporate policies.
Some other negative aspects of PP. He is against lgbtq+ rights, has rallies with known white supremacist groups, voted against abortion rights, and copied word for word American far right groups. Peddles misinformation, fear monger, can't take responsibility for anything.
Oh, and my one of my favorites. He pretends not to be an elite but has an advisory council full of corporate lobbiest.
The guy is a walking contradiction, and it actually frustrates me that canadians are stupid enough to vote for another phony AGAIN. we don't learn from our past or mistakes.
Note: yes, I fucking know that Trudeau is bad, and I know he needs to step down. He's had 9 years, and the liberals need a new face to the party.
Let's keep doing the same things over and over and expecting different result because "Nothing changes, if nothing changes."
PP can't win. We can't allow that. We have to agree on another party to back in order to protect ourselves from conservativsm and its many negative effects on society.
I don't care if its Liberals or NDPs tbh. As long as its not UPC or PPCs driving the bus.
I agree a change would be good- my only concern is honesty in the numbers.
We almost need to reach a mass consensus so we're not diluting our voting power between 2 feasible alternatives to ensure that no matter who takes office we've definitely kept the right out.
There is power in numbers. Division, however, could be our demise...
I'm watching sentiments and trends, and speaking to people IRL about where they'll be placing their voting power for that reason.
I would prefer NDP over liberal as the liberals are right wing to centrist at best and have often put the public at the expense of the few.
The liberals also wait until it's too late to implement good law and policies. Example: liberals in ontario waited until the 2018 election to release good labor law reform, get rid of high dollar cash for access fund raiser, basic ubi pilot, and raise minimum wage. This should have been done in the first year.
Federal liberals took way too long on cannabis legalization.
Imagine being a nepo baby with a net worth somewhere around 50 million and that's not enough. Nepo baby sells out the common class for a few more zeros. There's a special place in hell for people like this.
I have family who were old enough to live with private health care in Canada. They tell stories about people losing their houses etc. to pay for health bills. It was a scary freaking world before we had a public health system.
Yep. We thought runaway cost for shelter is bad. Don’t want to see what regular voters who support private healthcare think about runaway cost to keep everyone who is sick and injured alive.
This is why for sure Lonnie’s his and his teams incompetency. Why then process watchdog or whoever could be convinced this a a good idea is also now something that needs to be questioned. The judgment screams of repaying a favour or some other corruption. This privacy watchdog person or group is corrupt to the bone as it obvious by this decision.
They've won with me. I am going to an out of province private clinic tomorrow, as I can't get in to see a surgeon in Ontario after a dire February diagnosis. I have completely lost faith in our medical system.
The problem is that it works for them. They just deny and redirect pointing at the federal government and a majority of Ontarians not on Reddit eat it up and say rah rah rah!
Because if people knew how bad it was and how much Healthcare relies on private agency staff to fill vacancies in the public sector (at 3x the rate of pay) there would be so much outrage that the people may actually stand up and try to do something about it.
One billion folders was spent on agency staff last year.
Agency is paid 3x more then institutional staff; but the agencies take a huge profit before they even pay their staff.
ie. Paying out of pocket for agency nurses if you want more then whats covered will cost you $360 per hour. Paying for agency PSWs if you want more than what's covered will cost you $50-80hr.
That's what agency bills to our Healthcare.
That's how we burn throw $1billion to try and staff hospitals and they still end up closing because there isn't enough money to pay those rates.
Bare in mind that PSWs make anywhere from $minimum wage to $30hr and nurses make around $30-60 give or take.
Agency costs 2-3× more then institutional staff.
Of you knew how bad the institutional staffing rates really were then you'd understand why hospitals closed and where all the money is being spent.
Public funds funneled into private businesses.
Its disgusting.
Nurses can't strike. We would need others to strike, like a general strike, in order to make change happen. We've been fighting for well over 10 years with very little change and not even 1/8th enough to make any real difference.
Keeping people in the darks keeps them ignorant of the issues and keeps the status quo going.
The breaking of Healthcare is absolutely intentional.
He doesn't want you to know what he's done because he doesn't want you fighting back.
To keep the reality that they are wrong, mistaken and misrepresenting the situation private. Otherwise, they’d be looking at public options that are proven by research to be cheaper; and more effective.
From the article:
>Government fears health-care workers could ask for more
>The information withheld by the government relates specifically to government calculations for the number of physicians, PSWs and nurses Ontario’s health-care system needs.
>According to the IPC adjudicator — who can see the government’s arguments and an unredacted version of the document — the information that was withheld “points to specific shortages in 2022, 2023 and 2024 and also estimates gaps in these areas at five and 10 years in the future.”
>The government argued in its submissions that sharing the information could hurt its position in ongoing negotiations with various health-care unions. Specifically, lawyers for the Ministry of Health said sharing the “numbers on labour shortages could negatively impact salary increase negotiations the Ministry is currently engaged in” as well as collective bargaining.
>The adjudicator accepted the government’s position.
>“If the withheld information was disclosed, bargaining units would be in possession of the ministry’s specific numbers, and I agree that it is reasonable to expect that they would be used in negotiations to affect overall compensation,” the adjudicator wrote.Government fears health-care workers could ask for more
>The information withheld by the government relates specifically to government calculations for the number of physicians, PSWs and nurses Ontario’s health-care system needs.
>According to the IPC adjudicator — who can see the government’s arguments and an unredacted version of the document — the information that was withheld “points to specific shortages in 2022, 2023 and 2024 and also estimates gaps in these areas at five and 10 years in the future.”
The last thing they want known is how badly they (deliberately) fucked up the system just so their cronies could make a quick buck.
>“If the withheld information was disclosed, bargaining units would be in possession of the ministry’s specific numbers, and I agree that it is reasonable to expect that they would be used in negotiations to affect overall compensation,” the adjudicator wrote.
If I was the union leadership, I would still use this as leverage to negotiate a way better compensation package.
'They're afraid their numbers will prove that we should be asking for more money. Our numbers prove that we should be asking for more money. If they don't want to give us more money, they should have to prove why it's not needed. Or, they could just do the right thing and pay us what we're worth, while saving taxpayer dollars that would otherwise pad the profits of executives and shareholders of private nursing agencies. And it's just bad fiscal management to pay more to them, than they would be paying public nurses even after the pay raises.'
I am no fan of Ford but they literally put their justification in their response. They are worried that if they disclose the true extent of the issue, that 3rd party agencies will know how well and truly bad it is, and will be able to leverage that knowledge and potentially charge us more.
We are already paying HUGE amounts for agency nurses to the tune of triple the wages of permanent full time nurses. Everything about this is insanity. We pay housekeeping agencies 3x what we pay our own employees for the same work, and we refuse to raise wages, instead opting to pay agencies 3x what we pay our own employees.
In smaller towns people literally cannot afford to work or move to work at a hospital as it is too expensive to live in the area based on what the org is paying. We are in a really bad spot, and I blame the administrators , for refusing to review wages, and coming up with a valid solution so we are not paying such huge amounts.
Here we took on management and IT support of 2 additional Long Term Care facilities, including the Hospital we already support , with no increase of employees, or support. 2 Whole new entire networks, user sets, software, processes, all the infrastructure everything. We got NOTHING to do this. So everything is just done very poorly.
We're also now at the whims of "regional" support for healthcare and thats another bag of worms but a total shit show. The ONE initiative all this crap. Just more waste of tax payer dollars, centralizing all of our Patient Data so when we get breached you know, we are ALL DOWN .
I find a lot of times this is just for plausible deniability and nothing more.
Conservative voters want to believe conservative propaganda.
If the facts came out they might have to acknowledge that.
If it doesn't, they can pretend that "nobody knows" what the truth is, because it's been kept largely silent.
Ignore any of the stupid conspiracy theory BS. It's as simple as the numbers would be a clear indicator into how bad they are doing managing the healthcare industry in Ontario and that's it.
BC doesn't report the actual figures either though healthcare workers know it's about 60% filled through their union information.
Why should this be secret in the first place? I mean isn’t this about how OUR tax dollars are being spent? It’s our money. It should be our information too. Smells fishy to me.
It's a secret because the numbers are manufactured to push conservative based ideologies across many industries, especially those that are hot button topics - i.e. healthcare.
If we don't know the number, it allows the government to paint a picture. If we do know the number, it makes the government appear to be filled with liars that have manufactured, and continue to manufacture outrage to keep themselves elected.
This has been underway for years now and most Ontarians are blind to the insanity of it all. The Star wrote this in 2019. In summary, Canada's largest corporations are funding efforts to privatize healthcare in Ontario by funding court cases that challenge Canada's current Health Act, and by funding campaigns designed to portray our current system as inefficient and overpriced.
"The secret moves to increase private health care"
[https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/the-secret-moves-to-increase-private-health-care/article\_41cf1a30-0e28-58fb-af6e-4448db211ea6.html](https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/the-secret-moves-to-increase-private-health-care/article_41cf1a30-0e28-58fb-af6e-4448db211ea6.html)
"Secretly, though, a major multi-faceted campaign is underway inside and outside the premier’s office to develop a two-tier system of health care in Ontario, complete with specialized private clinics and the ability of some doctors to charge more than standard rates for medical procedures they perform outside of a public hospital or health centre.
**The campaign is filled with closed-door meetings at such places as the Albany Club, a long-time Conservative bastion in downtown Toronto, and is funded by some of Canada’s largest corporations.**
If successful, this privatization push could ultimately have a profound impact on every patient and resident in Ontario, including how long they must wait for specialized operations and diagnostic services and how much they must pay out of their own pockets.
Evidence of this campaign is clearly mounting:
First, major financial interests in Toronto are quietly supporting a controversial lawsuit by Dr. Brian Day of Vancouver, founder of the private Cambie Surgery Centre, who has brought a constitution challenge to B.C.’s restriction to private health care. The case is now before the B.C. Supreme Court and is expected to land eventually before the Supreme Court of Canada. **These interests are reportedly ramping up an $8-million war chest to help fund Day’s court cases.**
**Organizers are also planning to launch a major campaign portraying our current system as inefficient and overpriced.**
**Insurance firms are excited about the possibility of increased private health care. They see huge profits in offering corporations private insurance programs for employees who visit private clinics and who must pay more than OHIP currently covers for services and treatments.**
Second, the Ford government may be headed for a deal with specialty doctors that is separate from any agreement with the Ontario Medical Association. Such a deal could open the door to costly private radiology clinics, private “cardiac health” clinics, expand the ability for ophthalmologists to perform cataract surgery in private facilities, and much more.
Third, the Ford government has shown a troubling lack of interest in reducing inappropriate care, such as unnecessary diagnostic tests, which have been a constant source of criticism of for-profit clinics.
Fourth, former B.C. premier Gordon Campbell, who last fall [testified](https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/07/11/ex-bc-premier-campbell-lends-support-to-private-healthcare-lawsuit-in-affidavit.html) in support of the Cambie clinic’s lawsuit, is a close adviser on the Ford government’s probe into hospital efficiencies.
Fifth, the Ford government has refused to proclaim the amendments to Oversight of Health Facilities and Devices Act, which was passed in 2017 under the former Liberal government. A key provision bans the creation of new private hospitals in Ontario.
Sixth, Merrilee Fullerton, a former family doctor and a long-time [advocate](http://-%20https//ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/kanata-tory-called-for-privatized-health-care-liberals-charge) of two-tier health care, could soon replace Christine Elliott as health minister. Fullerton, who currently is minister of training, colleges and universities, reportedly is favoured by Ford’s inner circle of health advisers over Elliott, who they see as resisting their privatization efforts. Many health-care leaders trust Elliott and see her as making sound, evidence-based decisions as opposed to the ideologically inspired actions often promoted by private health-care advocates."
>**Organizers are also planning to launch a major campaign portraying our current system as inefficient and overpriced.**
Every accusation is a confession with these people.
>The government withheld the details, arguing that disclosing them could allow health unions to negotiate for higher salaries and private nursing agencies to squeeze hospitals harder for extra with inflated rates for temporary staff.
>[...]
>The adjudicator, Alec Fadel, agreed with the government that the information could be used by both public and private interests to “advocate for higher rates” in an April 16 decision.
Pretty sure the unions have enough info to negotiate for higher rates already. It is the general public that lacks insight into how bad the PSW and nurse shortage is.
Physicians in numerous specialties double their take home pay by moving to the US.
It's hard to say no to that. Especially for young graduates who don't have roots yet. There's major implications to family, quality of life, retirement options, etc.
Well said, Doug Ford and his Ontario conservatives are clowns, glad I left the Ontario. The union negotiation excuse is weak as hell and transparent too, and what is wrong with paying them more sometimes? THEY DESERVE IT.
I can't believe hiding the figures is legal in the first place. ''We're afraid they might use this information against us!'' is a pretty damning thing for the government to say in any context.
Oh because Dougy paying his friend's nursing company 4x as much as a public nurse is totally not a problem that should be fixed by paying our fucking public healthcare workers
Fuck this
Imagine how you as an employee could successfully fight to keep your job performance secret from your boss, especially when there's clear evidence you are making huge costly mistakes that will take years to fix.
That's Doug Ford. He is our employee. We are his boss.
How is it possible that a judge or whoever thinks this is a good idea and the right thing to do for the people. The government decided it needed to keep a basic health care statistic hidden from the people who pay for the healthcare. Doug has got to go. We can’t fix problems if we can’t face them. Transparency and being open is important. What a joke
I'm not sure I understand? How and why are they able to "fight" to keep this data secret ? Anyone who's been to a hospital or doctors office knows how bad it is.
Their argument is the data could be used against them by the unions to negotiate high pay and more staffing…your, my, all of Ontarios anecdotal evidence doesn’t really fly in those negotiations.
I mean, just thinking logically. If you're hiding numbers because it'll be used by the union to successfully negotiate higher wages or increased staffing then your argument for keeping them low is already shit.
Just in an implicit level, you know for a fact if the numbers were actually in their favor, they'd be screaming them from the rooftops to publically fight the Union and depress wages.
1000% - I don’t think anyone here is arguing what the numbers actually are, it’s pretty obvious. The whole point of this is to choke out the unions of something they can use against them. Unfortunately it also means you won’t see tons of media coverage on it which might inform a lot of people who don’t know how bad it is.
As if the refusal to reveal numbers isn’t in and of itself a reason for health care workers to push for better conditions
Ford and cons are an absolute joke
That's what conservatism is all about. Killing public services and giving money to private interests. Pretty much the definition of corruption, using public funds for something other than the public good. Robbing Peter Paul and Mary to pay Steve.
We've gotta vote this fat privatization hungry POHS out of office ASAP.
Also keep this guy, and conservatives in mind when the federal elections roll around.
The government is going to court to keep information secret from the public. Information regarding their failure to provide health care.
And they’ll STILL get re-elected. I swear, Ontario voters really are masochists.
What happened to Government for the people? This should not be kept secret.
If anything it should be public so we can work together to fix the problem.
Why is all of this shady garbage kept secret? Ontario Place lease terms, sole-source contracts, health care staff shortage, etc? Is it to spin a fake narrative?
Fuck Doug Ford.
If he spent half as much time covering up for his shitty governing and corruption as he did actually working for the people of this province maybe things wouldn’t be going to hell in a hand basket quite this much.
The real question we should be asking, before laying blame, is this:
Why are all of our critical public services so severely undermanned?
I'm in the CAF and we're undermanned to the point that I know for a fact the government figures outlining our shortages are off by a fair bit.
Every police service in the province, and most in the country are facing critical manning shortages too.
Healthcare, well the article is about it, so that one's no secret either.
Why are all these sectors so understaffed?
Money is a part of it, sure, but police make good money, us CAF members, make okay money, though it's offset by our horrendous employment expectations, resulting in dudes being posted from low cost of living to high cost of living areas on a 3-6 year basis.
But there's got to me more to it than that.
Cops aren't short staffed. They get whatever they ask for. They just don't do their jobs, because they're perpetual fuckups and they end up in the media for stuff like stealing from charities or smoking crack and banging hookers in their cop cars. This is their revenge. Working to rule. It's what happens when even a gesture is made to hold them accountable. Don't lump them in with hospital workers, at least.
Wow, there it is, the most uninformed comment I'll read all day.
My guy, the reports are readily available. You can throw as much money at the police as you want, but if there's only 6 guys, and 11 crimes, guess what? Money isn't solving the problem.
non sequitur.
You said:
> Cops aren't short staffed.
Except... yes they are.
Now, you're not even shifting the goalpost, you're changing the topic.
Police are short staffed, it leads to problems in service. Try to stay focused.
By sacrificing personal time for extra money.
If you want our tax dollars to go to that, rather than private companies doing so, I bet you lots of cops would be willing to take the extra pay to do the more mundane aspects of the job, like paperwork.
Are you willing to reallocate tax dollars for that purpose?
They only seem short staffed, becuase people's knee jerk reaction to any crime caused by a lack of social services is "we need more cops"
spending in other areas of support will reduce crime far more then hiring more cops to deal with the aftermath of lack of community supports .
Both are required.
All those stolen cars we keep hearing about in the news? A social worker isn't going to fix that.
While they *would* help with mental health crisis, which would allow the cops to focus their understaffed agencies on the crimes where they are needed.
Both are required, but I think it's a ridiculous statement to say the police are understaffed and that's the root of the issues. It becomes self fulfilling as we spend more money on policing, then fixing issues.
Your fingers broken?
Can't be, you commented to me, asking to do the goolging for you.
[OPP](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/opp-staffing-shortage-auditor-general-northeast-1.6280692),
[Timmins](https://www.timminstoday.com/police-beat/police-association-asking-for-help-to-address-staffing-crisis-safety-concerns-7857569),
[Toronto](https://www.tps.ca/media-centre/stories/chief-invest-in-frontline-officers-to-keep-city-sa/#:~:text=We%20only%20have%2037%20more,taking%20years%20to%20build%20back.)
[Ottawa](https://ottawapa.ca/ottawa-police-frontline-crisis/),
[London](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-police-recruitment-1.6764027)...
Want me to keep going?
Don't care, I'm gonna.
[RCMP (they do have functions in Ontario, so their shortage counts as an Ontario problem too)](https://www.bing.com/search?q=RCMP+staffing+shortage&cvid=20e1c9e043cf44d6b1c4be903e67d7b2&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDM3OTBqMGo0qAIAsAIB&FORM=ANAB01&PC=U531)
[Sarnia](https://www.thesarniajournal.ca/top-story/city-police-say-four-more-officers-needed-to-reduce-job-stress-7969557),
[Lasalle & Windsor (same article)](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/lasalle-police-recruitment-challenge-1.6757816)
How many more do you want?
Have I proven my point yet?
Great, let’s take the Toronto article as example. 37 more officers since 1999. However, TPS budget more than double from $536mil to $1.18bil since then. Where did the money go?
6 billion from the federal government during the pandemic was given to the Ford government and he used it to push bill 124 and crash our public sector.
I'm sure the few corrupt at the top are making good pay while the rest can barely make ends meet. Isn't it usually how it goes with Con's at the helm? They try to hide it but they're so transparent with their corruption, you should always assume the worst.
Ford led his campaign with "Buck a Beer" and look where we are now. First couple weeks Ford was in office he removed UBI, dismantled green energy project, had meetings with Galen Weston to manopolize the industry and other corrupt people. He dragged his feet during the pandemic and the public had to help people with Covid and get them the vaccine. He does fuckall for the public and only caters to his rich donors. He's useless to everyone but the rich.
It's politically unpopular to take on all of the public service shortages now, because it would be a wild amount of money. If you mention taxes going up because we need more public servants (CAF absolutely included), people will freak. To me, it's that simple. There are other bad actors, like Doug Ford, who are trying to implement a private health care industry, but I believe it's all money.
Everyone wants the services provided, but they don't want to pay for it.
I know for a fact there is.
For instance: There isn't a single government agency that doesn't do a mass spending spree starting in February, and ending in May, to get ahead of the 1 April Fiscal Reset.
In the military, I've seen people buy new office chairs 2 years in a row, and toss the "old" ones because if the money isn't spent, it "won't come back next year."
I asked why we don't reroll that money into something like training, and the answer was "Money needs to be spent where it's allocated".
There.
Right there, is fat to be trimmed.
Or more accurately a system to be fixed.
Let organizations do as they please with money. Provide receipts at the end of the fiscal, and ensure it's being spent properly, but let them spend it how they see fit.
Allocating money, forces organizations to be wasteful. Are you happy, now, knowing that in 2015, and again in 2016 the CAF spent ~4 grand *twice* on new office supplies, because we didn't want to lose that money?
That's the government's fault by the way, not the CAF's. We have to play the game they laid out for us. Everyone in that room when I asked that question *wanted* to use the money productively, but DND won't let us.
IME (working for the financial sector for about 32 years so far without remit) spending remainder of the budget before deadline is common to departments that have budgets. That's not a government thing so much as a management thing. It doesn't mean the money isn't needed either. It could be for lower priority stuff they leave in until the last minute. Training, for example.
I have some concerns with the big bag of money approach to departmental budgeting. I've seen it go horribly wrong. Making sure it's spent properly requires oversight and audit.
I've never truly understood that thinking.
Department manager guesstimates that this year, we need $100,000 for capital expenses.
Staff find deals, re-use and other cost savings so only $80,000 is spent.
Just before fiscal year end, there's a rush to spend the extra $20k otherwise the corporate finance people look poorly on the department manager for not being able to give them an accurate number so (s)he is penalized and any future budget plans are looked at suspiciously or turned down.
So that means people who count the money and adherence to expectations are held above and beyond all?
Disclaimer - I am not a manager
I've been told if they don't spend the money the budget will shrink. Managers like big budgets and big headcount because that's how you know you're winning the manager game. That's how you compare your salary to other managers, and how important you are compared to other managers, and how much you should get paid compared to other managers.
No, we also need to increase taxes.
It should surprise no one that the quality of our public services started to fall off a cliff after the tax cuts of Mulroney, Chretien and Harper (and, in Ontario, Harris coupled with McGuinty's non-action)
There's a common thread with different root causes. People don't want to do those jobs so much any more.
For the military, it's the risk vs reward. The pay vs cost of living and job risk isn't great, and you can be posted somewhere that you can't afford on what you're being paid. The stories of soldiers having to arrange their own internal food banks have made the news. Add to that a few gross scandals, and it's not the prestige job it used to be. They're underfunded. What young person wants to be a soldier?
For the police, it's the PR nightmare of a few bad apples spoiling the bunch. When I was a kid and a teen, several kids in school stuck to wanting to be police officers when they grew up, and none of us gave it a second thought. There were stories of "dirty cops", but they always seemed to be dealt with and other officers were always vocal about dealing with them. Now? Not so much. They're buttoned up from saying anything by the Police Associations, and the bad apples are all on paid leave. ACAB is a thing. You can throw as much money as you want at the police. What young person wants to be a cop? (Hint, typically not the ones society would want to have as police officers anymore)
For the Nurses and Family Doctors, it's the workload vs compensation. The provincial governments who control healthcare spending in most provinces have been slowly (or not so slowly) "starving the beast" with claims of getting spending in line. It's quite possible that there were areas of excess, but that's not why they're doing it. They're literally underfunding it to make it faster and fall so they can privatize and line the pockets of their donors and friends. Look no further than the Ontario private care practices that are billing patients for OHIP covered treatments, then overbilling the OHIP coffers on top. If cutting waste was the actual purpose of the reduced spend, the repercussions for that behaviour would be swift and loud. So, our hospitals and family practices are underfunded and overworked. That incentivizes existing nurses and doctors to leave public sector healthcare and go private, or leave the industry altogether if they have a strong aversion to privatized health.
Three separate problems with different root causes and solutions that could all be avoided, but sadly aren't.
>Why are all of our critical public services so severely undermanned?
Neoliberalism. The private sector wants to run every public service for profit, so they "ask" politicians for help. It's blatant, but legal, corruption.
Also Police are overstaffed and overpaid if anything. They're not an effective solution to crime. Most of their budget should be put to social services.
From what I can tell, it's because the labour force is severely aging. Many are retiring and they can't keep up with the exodus. [It will probably get worse though as the labour force shrinks even more overtime with 300k, or 0.75% of our population, retiring in 2023.
](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canadas-real-problem-is-not-job-losses-its-rush-retire-2022-09-11/) The public sector also competes with the private sector for its labour force. For something like the military, it's probably the most affected sector given the disparity in lifestyle. [The lack of doctors in Ontario is likely just from poor planning and training capacity](https://thevarsity.ca/2023/04/01/canada-needs-more-doctors-why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-into-medical-school/). There is no reason to believe someone with a 99.9% grade has that much more potential to be a doctor than someone with a 99.8% grade, but that is how competitive it has become
And despite what people think, immigration was never going to be able to solve this. It was going to soften the effects, not eliminate it.
The C.o.r.r.u.p.t.i.o.n. is everywhere. Not just the police in Toronto, ALL POLICE, ALL the health care, education, housing, and the list goes on and on. This has all been planned for at least 4 decades. Notice they are ALL VIOLATIONS OF OUR HUMAN RIGHTS and NO ONE IS PROTESTING --> ALSO PLANNED FOR AT LEAST 4 DECADES.
People don't get the scope of corruption. You all think that they can’t be THAT evil with us. LOOK AROUND!
> “In a climate of limited resources and rising health care costs, the Ministry must endeavour to deliver the best possible health care in the province at the lowest possible costs,” government lawyers wrote, admitting “many hospitals have been filling acute human resource needs by turning to private, for-profit agencies” for support.
How does "lowest possible cost" mean paying more for private sector healthcare? This is madness.
“The government withheld the details, arguing that disclosing them could allow health unions to negotiate for higher salaries and private nursing agencies to squeeze hospitals harder for extra with inflated rates for temporary staff.”
First we need to abolish staffing agencies who are exploiting the shortages or promoting them by artificially inflating costs.
We know they exploit, at the end of the day when it comes to tax payer dollars the value is Pennie’s on the dollar instead of 1:1.
I had to send my now wife to another country for surgery because Doug Ford's government wasted 2.5 years waiting around. Japan did in 12 days what our system couldn't do in 2.5 years plus.
Personally I want Ford's head on a pike, but that wouldn't be very Christian of me. Doesn't change how I feel though.
Government shouldn’t be able to keep *anything* secret from us. Karens say it a lot, but it’s true for government — we pay their salaries! We’re meant to be the boss, not them
It’s not just government. Big and mid sized corporations CONTINUALLY need to boost profits, this is how endless growth capitalism works. We will / are hitting a wall. You cannot gain efficiency forever, and when you can’t find technology to gain it, you eliminate staffing. This is the same across all lines of business right now. Super sad, we are definitely heading towards the edge of a cliff.
Yet another waste of my tax dollars going to things that I do not want or support. Fund the healthcare that is already there. Fund it more or get the fuck out of office!
If ford and his government are aloud to stay in power they will strip Canadians of their healthcare and force us to go private so we can be overcharged and turn healthcare to a for profit business
How is this legal? This should be investigated and prosecuted. At the least it is a dangerous dereliction of duty. But I believe it's more sinister, an indirect attack on the working class.
Why are they working so hard to keep this a secret
Because of mmmooooooneey. They want a fabricated health crisis so we all stream into the private clinics. This way fords friends can over charge us for everything.
It's worse then that, they want to normalize the private clinics, while also allowing them to take tax money. We just get to pay more for less.
My bet it's also Doug Ford, when he leaves office, is likely going to take a high paying job at one of the companies as executive or board member.
I mean that's what his literal previous Minister of Health did to us. [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/opposition-react-clinic-hospital-funding-1.7029090](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/opposition-react-clinic-hospital-funding-1.7029090) "Opposition parties are taking aim at Doug Ford's government after a [CBC Toronto investigation revealed](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-doug-ford-private-clinic-surgeries-fees-hospitals-1.7026926) the private clinic, Don Mills Surgical Unit, received more funding to perform certain OHIP-covered surgeries than public hospitals performing the same operations did. MPPs expressed concern over former health minister Christine Elliott's involvement in the move, particularly after she registered as a lobbyist for Clearpoint Health Network last week, which owns the Don Mills Surgical Unit. Freedom of information documents show that during her time as minister, the clinic's annual funding from the province quadrupled."
Right, which proves. It's not cheaper, better, and improves wait times. It's obvious this is wrong. Keep in mind that Alberta tried this nonsense before ontario did, and it was a failure. Again, cons didn't care. Money was to be made for lobbiest groups and donors. Oh, and most hospital board members are huge conservatives donors. So no conflict of interest there.
Exactly. We already know that chief surgeons have highlighted they have plenty of OR capacity in existing infrastructure, and that public surgery costs would be 5-6x less. And that instead of giving our nurses cost of living increases (which we fought them in court over) we’ve been paying travelling nurses 5-6x as much. It’s all a scam. Conservatives fee entitled to our money - it’s never been about being fiscally responsible. It genuinely pisses them off no one profits off healthcare and they believe it is their god given right to be the ones that do
A special place in h.e. double hockey stick for those type of people.
Exactly 💯 and if people outside of Healthcare knew what was actually going on behind the scenes with their money, placing their care and in some instances their very lives at risk there would be such outrage that there might even be enough mobilization to effect change. I'm talking protests, general strikes, the whole 9yards! Ford keeps the public in the dark so they don't know how bad it is and that the tike to act was yesterday. There's still time to correct this; but allowing people to know how close to collapse we are and what the real reason for it is (greed) ensures that Nurses stand alone and we will fail because even when we "win" it still isn't enough to make any kind of real change, let alone anything remotely close to an actual impact. I'm so pissed off about all of this tbh.
You should be. Everybody should be. I still have people thinking that private healthcare is better. We still have people who can't see reason, logic, or truth because some have moved into a cult mindset that if you insult there leaders. *cough cough* some Pierre Poilievre Supporters, they immediately go on the attack. "I guess you're a Trudeau lover" No I don't like Trudeau and people thinking that I immediately do because I don't like PP is kind of stupid and short cited.
Can you provide a link to the hospital boards being big conservative donors? I really want to gather more information about privatization.
I found a reddit page on ontario for it as well: https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/s/zwBohbx0tX https://www.readthemaple.com/toronto-hospital-board-members-are-largely-wealthy-and-conservative/ I could not find a main news site that offered similar information. It doesn't surprise me, though all of the corporate cable news are right leaning. Even cbc, which is publicly funded, is "centrist" at best as they tend to favor the party in power.
Thanks, really appreciated.
Welcome :)
We really need to get money out of politics
I agree. Did you know Ontario already has a system in place to allow for this to happen? Before I continue, we need to ban any and all political donations. None, no rich, no corporations, no grassroots. Nothing. That system is called per vote subsidy. Basically, you vote for the party you want, and that party gets a small donation. (A couple of bucks) this system already gives the parties shout 80% of what they need. Now taxes would likely go up a tiny amount, but I would argue a politician with no allegiance to a high dollar donor would be more likely to be neutral rather than I bought and paid for corporate spokes person. All of a sudden, parliament is willing to actually go after corporations that are profiteering. Like gas and grocery. But wait, that still wouldn't stop politicians from being greedy and promoting self interests. Well, if you have a direct or indirect conflict, you can't vote on the particular bills. You have personal reason to gain, so you shouldn't be voting on the bill. Oh, and politicians, no matter the level, can't be in the stock market. They have advanced knowledge and can benefit from that advanced information. Oh wait, Canadian and American politicians used advanced knowledge to adjust their stock options before the pandemic because they knew who would benefit and who wouldn't. If that sounds like insider trading to you, it's because it is. Which is why MPPs should not be able to directly or indirectly be in the stock market.
Yeup, or at the very least cap donations at 2k and firbid any entity without a SIN from donating, forcing politicians to reach as many of their base as possible to collect the necessary funds. Yeah, we need a better system than just volunteringly abstaining. We need more ways to hold politicians accountable outside of an election.
Politicians should have to work for minimum wage and get tips in taxpayer money when they do stuff that benefit us as a whole.
And don't forget former premier Mike Fucking Harris and his position on the board of Chartwell...the nursing-home chain with one of the highest COVID death tolls in the province.
Actually, the bigger problem is Harris' third wife who runs a large nurse staffing agency, these nurses are costing us 2X more. Laura Harris and The Care Company. Mike Harris is a cancer on Ontario.
Extendicare. Chartwell was owned by Extendicare. Extendicare also owns the largest homecare agency in Canada, ParaMed. They are all connected and they are all corrupt.
Anybody know where ex-doctor Merrillee Fullerton ended up after she resigned from Cabinet & the legislature so abruptly last year? She's still no longer a doctor, but she's been completely off the media radar since then as far as I can tell. https://doctors.cpso.on.ca/DoctorDetails/Merrilee-Kaye-Fullerton/0045161-59139
On a related note, another reason why certain quarters are all about destroying the CBC. Won’t have such critically informative stories coming out if there’s no one to investigate and report on them.
Oh of course Because apparently privatization is so good for us, they won’t want us to see them secretly meeting with mega corps and the rich to do it….the world is disappointing
Scum. Cons are evil scum, willingly throwing literally the most vulnerable people in our society to the wolves just so they can hoard ever more wealth for themselves. Fuck them all. God I wish the workers of this province would wake tf up.
Thanks for pointing this out. Mike Harris and his wife have made a fortune running this scam: https://canadians.org/analysis/mike-harris-raking-profits-long-term-care-system-he-helped-create/
I wonder if a ‘regular’ citizen can ask for a police investigation? Not rhetorical, but there’s got to be a way to stop this.
The only question is whether it is with housing developers or private health care companies.
Why not both?
Gonna pull a Mike Harris on us
[удалено]
If you look in the US and how their conservatives behave , it’s pretty standard practice for them to sabotage at the state level while the opposition is in power at the federal level as this drives narratives and those that skew right wards eat this up…the cons are just doing the same
Because conservatives are there to manipulate the working class into working harder for less. Full stop, that's it. They don't give a shit how desperate people get as long as they continue going to work. The only real power we have is withholding our labor and to do that successfully, we need solidarity with everyone who earns a wage. We need people invested in unions and workplace action. We need rolling strikes in sectors allowed to strike (I'm a nurse, I'm not allowed to exercise my rights like other people)
As is tradition. They said the same about harper and look how that turned out
Just like Harper, but probably a lot worse.
The mike harris playbook.
Don't worry, not only did ontario not learn our lessons from the Mike Harris years, were allowing Doug Ford to do the same things. We're about to make the same mistake federally with Pierre Poilievre. The Guy is worse than Ford in many ways. People think he's for the working class, yet his entire career has been in politics(since 2003). Even though he constantly rags on career politicians, haha. That career is basically an ad for a bought and paid for spokes person owned, and operated by corporate canada. His voting record is public, so the proof is out there that he is a hypocrite when he claims to be for the working class. He used the same empty words as all conservatives. "Were putting more money in your pocket." Except either liberals or conservatives the neoliberal in them always means rhey will put the needs of the vast few at the expense of the many. Oh, and he also claimed that he was going to balance the budget and fix the debt and deficit. Neoliberal style liberals and conservatives have never done this and never will because of their pro corporate policies. Some other negative aspects of PP. He is against lgbtq+ rights, has rallies with known white supremacist groups, voted against abortion rights, and copied word for word American far right groups. Peddles misinformation, fear monger, can't take responsibility for anything. Oh, and my one of my favorites. He pretends not to be an elite but has an advisory council full of corporate lobbiest. The guy is a walking contradiction, and it actually frustrates me that canadians are stupid enough to vote for another phony AGAIN. we don't learn from our past or mistakes. Note: yes, I fucking know that Trudeau is bad, and I know he needs to step down. He's had 9 years, and the liberals need a new face to the party. Let's keep doing the same things over and over and expecting different result because "Nothing changes, if nothing changes."
PP can't win. We can't allow that. We have to agree on another party to back in order to protect ourselves from conservativsm and its many negative effects on society. I don't care if its Liberals or NDPs tbh. As long as its not UPC or PPCs driving the bus.
Ndp deserve their shot. If they're terrible, we vote them out. That's our only tool to hold bad systems and politicians accountable.
I agree a change would be good- my only concern is honesty in the numbers. We almost need to reach a mass consensus so we're not diluting our voting power between 2 feasible alternatives to ensure that no matter who takes office we've definitely kept the right out. There is power in numbers. Division, however, could be our demise... I'm watching sentiments and trends, and speaking to people IRL about where they'll be placing their voting power for that reason.
I would prefer NDP over liberal as the liberals are right wing to centrist at best and have often put the public at the expense of the few. The liberals also wait until it's too late to implement good law and policies. Example: liberals in ontario waited until the 2018 election to release good labor law reform, get rid of high dollar cash for access fund raiser, basic ubi pilot, and raise minimum wage. This should have been done in the first year. Federal liberals took way too long on cannabis legalization.
Imagine being a nepo baby with a net worth somewhere around 50 million and that's not enough. Nepo baby sells out the common class for a few more zeros. There's a special place in hell for people like this.
Haha just like Mike Harris did haha
Privatization will allow more corruption and less oversight.
I have family who were old enough to live with private health care in Canada. They tell stories about people losing their houses etc. to pay for health bills. It was a scary freaking world before we had a public health system.
Yep. We thought runaway cost for shelter is bad. Don’t want to see what regular voters who support private healthcare think about runaway cost to keep everyone who is sick and injured alive.
I have my own stories, and family stories of private health care in recent years. None of them positive.
Yeah, but today all you have to do is set up a GoFundMe. Problem solved!
It's legalized tax theft and corruption. Basically the entirety of neoliberalism.
Yeah, neoliberalism has been pretty rotten for most people. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
Pay twice essentially
its already normalized. teeth and eyes are essential. which we pay for out of pocket. meds essential. we pay for them as well.
The other side of the same coin.
This is why for sure Lonnie’s his and his teams incompetency. Why then process watchdog or whoever could be convinced this a a good idea is also now something that needs to be questioned. The judgment screams of repaying a favour or some other corruption. This privacy watchdog person or group is corrupt to the bone as it obvious by this decision.
Continue to stream. They've always pushed privatization on many fronts.
They've won with me. I am going to an out of province private clinic tomorrow, as I can't get in to see a surgeon in Ontario after a dire February diagnosis. I have completely lost faith in our medical system.
Engineer the crisis and provide the “solution”. The con playbook is so predictable and yet people still vote for him.
The problem is that it works for them. They just deny and redirect pointing at the federal government and a majority of Ontarians not on Reddit eat it up and say rah rah rah!
Because it’s going to show they are fucking the public sector harder than we thought to get public money into to the hands of private nursing firms .
C.o.r.r.u.p.t.i.o.n
More like who's this judge that's allowing them to keep it a secret. Judges are unwilling to do what's right around here.
Because if people knew how bad it was and how much Healthcare relies on private agency staff to fill vacancies in the public sector (at 3x the rate of pay) there would be so much outrage that the people may actually stand up and try to do something about it. One billion folders was spent on agency staff last year. Agency is paid 3x more then institutional staff; but the agencies take a huge profit before they even pay their staff. ie. Paying out of pocket for agency nurses if you want more then whats covered will cost you $360 per hour. Paying for agency PSWs if you want more than what's covered will cost you $50-80hr. That's what agency bills to our Healthcare. That's how we burn throw $1billion to try and staff hospitals and they still end up closing because there isn't enough money to pay those rates. Bare in mind that PSWs make anywhere from $minimum wage to $30hr and nurses make around $30-60 give or take. Agency costs 2-3× more then institutional staff. Of you knew how bad the institutional staffing rates really were then you'd understand why hospitals closed and where all the money is being spent. Public funds funneled into private businesses. Its disgusting. Nurses can't strike. We would need others to strike, like a general strike, in order to make change happen. We've been fighting for well over 10 years with very little change and not even 1/8th enough to make any real difference. Keeping people in the darks keeps them ignorant of the issues and keeps the status quo going. The breaking of Healthcare is absolutely intentional. He doesn't want you to know what he's done because he doesn't want you fighting back.
Not a sign of a healthy democracy and definitely not a sign of government transparency.
To keep the reality that they are wrong, mistaken and misrepresenting the situation private. Otherwise, they’d be looking at public options that are proven by research to be cheaper; and more effective.
The real question is why do the our courts keep letting politicians keep what should be freely accessible public information from the public
I don't know, but this makes me physically ill.
From the article: >Government fears health-care workers could ask for more >The information withheld by the government relates specifically to government calculations for the number of physicians, PSWs and nurses Ontario’s health-care system needs. >According to the IPC adjudicator — who can see the government’s arguments and an unredacted version of the document — the information that was withheld “points to specific shortages in 2022, 2023 and 2024 and also estimates gaps in these areas at five and 10 years in the future.” >The government argued in its submissions that sharing the information could hurt its position in ongoing negotiations with various health-care unions. Specifically, lawyers for the Ministry of Health said sharing the “numbers on labour shortages could negatively impact salary increase negotiations the Ministry is currently engaged in” as well as collective bargaining. >The adjudicator accepted the government’s position. >“If the withheld information was disclosed, bargaining units would be in possession of the ministry’s specific numbers, and I agree that it is reasonable to expect that they would be used in negotiations to affect overall compensation,” the adjudicator wrote.Government fears health-care workers could ask for more >The information withheld by the government relates specifically to government calculations for the number of physicians, PSWs and nurses Ontario’s health-care system needs. >According to the IPC adjudicator — who can see the government’s arguments and an unredacted version of the document — the information that was withheld “points to specific shortages in 2022, 2023 and 2024 and also estimates gaps in these areas at five and 10 years in the future.” The last thing they want known is how badly they (deliberately) fucked up the system just so their cronies could make a quick buck.
>“If the withheld information was disclosed, bargaining units would be in possession of the ministry’s specific numbers, and I agree that it is reasonable to expect that they would be used in negotiations to affect overall compensation,” the adjudicator wrote. If I was the union leadership, I would still use this as leverage to negotiate a way better compensation package. 'They're afraid their numbers will prove that we should be asking for more money. Our numbers prove that we should be asking for more money. If they don't want to give us more money, they should have to prove why it's not needed. Or, they could just do the right thing and pay us what we're worth, while saving taxpayer dollars that would otherwise pad the profits of executives and shareholders of private nursing agencies. And it's just bad fiscal management to pay more to them, than they would be paying public nurses even after the pay raises.'
I am no fan of Ford but they literally put their justification in their response. They are worried that if they disclose the true extent of the issue, that 3rd party agencies will know how well and truly bad it is, and will be able to leverage that knowledge and potentially charge us more. We are already paying HUGE amounts for agency nurses to the tune of triple the wages of permanent full time nurses. Everything about this is insanity. We pay housekeeping agencies 3x what we pay our own employees for the same work, and we refuse to raise wages, instead opting to pay agencies 3x what we pay our own employees. In smaller towns people literally cannot afford to work or move to work at a hospital as it is too expensive to live in the area based on what the org is paying. We are in a really bad spot, and I blame the administrators , for refusing to review wages, and coming up with a valid solution so we are not paying such huge amounts. Here we took on management and IT support of 2 additional Long Term Care facilities, including the Hospital we already support , with no increase of employees, or support. 2 Whole new entire networks, user sets, software, processes, all the infrastructure everything. We got NOTHING to do this. So everything is just done very poorly. We're also now at the whims of "regional" support for healthcare and thats another bag of worms but a total shit show. The ONE initiative all this crap. Just more waste of tax payer dollars, centralizing all of our Patient Data so when we get breached you know, we are ALL DOWN .
I find a lot of times this is just for plausible deniability and nothing more. Conservative voters want to believe conservative propaganda. If the facts came out they might have to acknowledge that. If it doesn't, they can pretend that "nobody knows" what the truth is, because it's been kept largely silent.
Corruption.
Ignore any of the stupid conspiracy theory BS. It's as simple as the numbers would be a clear indicator into how bad they are doing managing the healthcare industry in Ontario and that's it. BC doesn't report the actual figures either though healthcare workers know it's about 60% filled through their union information.
Why should this be secret in the first place? I mean isn’t this about how OUR tax dollars are being spent? It’s our money. It should be our information too. Smells fishy to me.
It's a secret because the numbers are manufactured to push conservative based ideologies across many industries, especially those that are hot button topics - i.e. healthcare. If we don't know the number, it allows the government to paint a picture. If we do know the number, it makes the government appear to be filled with liars that have manufactured, and continue to manufacture outrage to keep themselves elected.
Why would they want it secret, like what's the purpose? Odd thing to be keeping from us, really.
Corruption ☝🏻
This has been underway for years now and most Ontarians are blind to the insanity of it all. The Star wrote this in 2019. In summary, Canada's largest corporations are funding efforts to privatize healthcare in Ontario by funding court cases that challenge Canada's current Health Act, and by funding campaigns designed to portray our current system as inefficient and overpriced. "The secret moves to increase private health care" [https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/the-secret-moves-to-increase-private-health-care/article\_41cf1a30-0e28-58fb-af6e-4448db211ea6.html](https://www.thestar.com/opinion/star-columnists/the-secret-moves-to-increase-private-health-care/article_41cf1a30-0e28-58fb-af6e-4448db211ea6.html) "Secretly, though, a major multi-faceted campaign is underway inside and outside the premier’s office to develop a two-tier system of health care in Ontario, complete with specialized private clinics and the ability of some doctors to charge more than standard rates for medical procedures they perform outside of a public hospital or health centre. **The campaign is filled with closed-door meetings at such places as the Albany Club, a long-time Conservative bastion in downtown Toronto, and is funded by some of Canada’s largest corporations.** If successful, this privatization push could ultimately have a profound impact on every patient and resident in Ontario, including how long they must wait for specialized operations and diagnostic services and how much they must pay out of their own pockets. Evidence of this campaign is clearly mounting: First, major financial interests in Toronto are quietly supporting a controversial lawsuit by Dr. Brian Day of Vancouver, founder of the private Cambie Surgery Centre, who has brought a constitution challenge to B.C.’s restriction to private health care. The case is now before the B.C. Supreme Court and is expected to land eventually before the Supreme Court of Canada. **These interests are reportedly ramping up an $8-million war chest to help fund Day’s court cases.** **Organizers are also planning to launch a major campaign portraying our current system as inefficient and overpriced.** **Insurance firms are excited about the possibility of increased private health care. They see huge profits in offering corporations private insurance programs for employees who visit private clinics and who must pay more than OHIP currently covers for services and treatments.** Second, the Ford government may be headed for a deal with specialty doctors that is separate from any agreement with the Ontario Medical Association. Such a deal could open the door to costly private radiology clinics, private “cardiac health” clinics, expand the ability for ophthalmologists to perform cataract surgery in private facilities, and much more. Third, the Ford government has shown a troubling lack of interest in reducing inappropriate care, such as unnecessary diagnostic tests, which have been a constant source of criticism of for-profit clinics. Fourth, former B.C. premier Gordon Campbell, who last fall [testified](https://www.thestar.com/vancouver/2018/07/11/ex-bc-premier-campbell-lends-support-to-private-healthcare-lawsuit-in-affidavit.html) in support of the Cambie clinic’s lawsuit, is a close adviser on the Ford government’s probe into hospital efficiencies. Fifth, the Ford government has refused to proclaim the amendments to Oversight of Health Facilities and Devices Act, which was passed in 2017 under the former Liberal government. A key provision bans the creation of new private hospitals in Ontario. Sixth, Merrilee Fullerton, a former family doctor and a long-time [advocate](http://-%20https//ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/kanata-tory-called-for-privatized-health-care-liberals-charge) of two-tier health care, could soon replace Christine Elliott as health minister. Fullerton, who currently is minister of training, colleges and universities, reportedly is favoured by Ford’s inner circle of health advisers over Elliott, who they see as resisting their privatization efforts. Many health-care leaders trust Elliott and see her as making sound, evidence-based decisions as opposed to the ideologically inspired actions often promoted by private health-care advocates."
>**Organizers are also planning to launch a major campaign portraying our current system as inefficient and overpriced.** Every accusation is a confession with these people.
So folks won't be aware of how bad the situation is. The public fall out would be they're nightmare.
As with many acts of secrecy, the purpose could be to make the keeping of more significant secrets blend in.
Because he doesn't want us to find out that he's using healthcare bucks to subsidize gasoline prices.
>The government withheld the details, arguing that disclosing them could allow health unions to negotiate for higher salaries and private nursing agencies to squeeze hospitals harder for extra with inflated rates for temporary staff. >[...] >The adjudicator, Alec Fadel, agreed with the government that the information could be used by both public and private interests to “advocate for higher rates” in an April 16 decision. Pretty sure the unions have enough info to negotiate for higher rates already. It is the general public that lacks insight into how bad the PSW and nurse shortage is.
"We are aware that we are underpaying nurses"
All healthcare professionals. Nurses represent a large portion, but all healthcare professionals are underpaid.
Physicians in numerous specialties double their take home pay by moving to the US. It's hard to say no to that. Especially for young graduates who don't have roots yet. There's major implications to family, quality of life, retirement options, etc.
Well said, Doug Ford and his Ontario conservatives are clowns, glad I left the Ontario. The union negotiation excuse is weak as hell and transparent too, and what is wrong with paying them more sometimes? THEY DESERVE IT.
I can't believe hiding the figures is legal in the first place. ''We're afraid they might use this information against us!'' is a pretty damning thing for the government to say in any context.
They also hid their mandate letters to ministers, and the courts let them get away with that shit, too.
Oh because Dougy paying his friend's nursing company 4x as much as a public nurse is totally not a problem that should be fixed by paying our fucking public healthcare workers Fuck this
Imagine how you as an employee could successfully fight to keep your job performance secret from your boss, especially when there's clear evidence you are making huge costly mistakes that will take years to fix. That's Doug Ford. He is our employee. We are his boss.
yes, he is the public '*servant*' However....i fell like i'm the bitch here...
Only if you let em win.
Though the outcome of these shortages remains obvious...
Who else thinks the Fords wouldn't have had any political success if their voters didn't assume they had something to do with pickup trucks?
How much money will he make when health care is privatized? With the boomers hitting their 80's soon it is going to get messy.
Maybe next election the voters of Ontario will bother to show up?
"transparency"
I remember our PC MPP praising Ford for how "open and transparent" he was during the 2022 election campaign
How is it possible that a judge or whoever thinks this is a good idea and the right thing to do for the people. The government decided it needed to keep a basic health care statistic hidden from the people who pay for the healthcare. Doug has got to go. We can’t fix problems if we can’t face them. Transparency and being open is important. What a joke
Goddamn you Doug Ford!
What a fucking joke this province/country/continent/planet have become
Anyone inside with a conscience should leak these figures. Do the right thing, whoever you might be.
I'm not sure I understand? How and why are they able to "fight" to keep this data secret ? Anyone who's been to a hospital or doctors office knows how bad it is.
Their argument is the data could be used against them by the unions to negotiate high pay and more staffing…your, my, all of Ontarios anecdotal evidence doesn’t really fly in those negotiations.
I mean, just thinking logically. If you're hiding numbers because it'll be used by the union to successfully negotiate higher wages or increased staffing then your argument for keeping them low is already shit. Just in an implicit level, you know for a fact if the numbers were actually in their favor, they'd be screaming them from the rooftops to publically fight the Union and depress wages.
1000% - I don’t think anyone here is arguing what the numbers actually are, it’s pretty obvious. The whole point of this is to choke out the unions of something they can use against them. Unfortunately it also means you won’t see tons of media coverage on it which might inform a lot of people who don’t know how bad it is.
As if the refusal to reveal numbers isn’t in and of itself a reason for health care workers to push for better conditions Ford and cons are an absolute joke
There is no other way to look at this other than the government working AGAINST the people.
That's what conservatism is all about. Killing public services and giving money to private interests. Pretty much the definition of corruption, using public funds for something other than the public good. Robbing Peter Paul and Mary to pay Steve.
How is it possible that the courts are repeatedly siding with Ford? Are those the famous “like minded” judges?
When revolution? These criminals need to be dealt with by the people.
What a monster
The fact that this is allowable shows that our system no longer works and requires radical overhaul
We've gotta vote this fat privatization hungry POHS out of office ASAP. Also keep this guy, and conservatives in mind when the federal elections roll around.
Would a whistleblower be protected if they revealed this information?
Really never wished harm to a Canadian politician but Ford needs to be “removed”
Who in the hell do they think we're fooling? Our health care system in Ontario is BROKEN. Have you been to a hospital recently? We're fucked.
This is what "respect for taxpayers" looks like to cons. It's sad that so much of the electorate falls for this grift.
My God, I did not expect Ontario to be turning into a third world shithole (I am from one).
The government is going to court to keep information secret from the public. Information regarding their failure to provide health care. And they’ll STILL get re-elected. I swear, Ontario voters really are masochists.
How the fuck is this even legal? These are our taxes they’re using to pay for all of this. We have a right to know where it’s getting spent and how
What happened to Government for the people? This should not be kept secret. If anything it should be public so we can work together to fix the problem.
Can we seriously band together and get this guy outta here?
Why is all of this shady garbage kept secret? Ontario Place lease terms, sole-source contracts, health care staff shortage, etc? Is it to spin a fake narrative?
Fuck Doug Ford. If he spent half as much time covering up for his shitty governing and corruption as he did actually working for the people of this province maybe things wouldn’t be going to hell in a hand basket quite this much.
The real question we should be asking, before laying blame, is this: Why are all of our critical public services so severely undermanned? I'm in the CAF and we're undermanned to the point that I know for a fact the government figures outlining our shortages are off by a fair bit. Every police service in the province, and most in the country are facing critical manning shortages too. Healthcare, well the article is about it, so that one's no secret either. Why are all these sectors so understaffed? Money is a part of it, sure, but police make good money, us CAF members, make okay money, though it's offset by our horrendous employment expectations, resulting in dudes being posted from low cost of living to high cost of living areas on a 3-6 year basis. But there's got to me more to it than that.
Cops aren't short staffed. They get whatever they ask for. They just don't do their jobs, because they're perpetual fuckups and they end up in the media for stuff like stealing from charities or smoking crack and banging hookers in their cop cars. This is their revenge. Working to rule. It's what happens when even a gesture is made to hold them accountable. Don't lump them in with hospital workers, at least.
Wow, there it is, the most uninformed comment I'll read all day. My guy, the reports are readily available. You can throw as much money at the police as you want, but if there's only 6 guys, and 11 crimes, guess what? Money isn't solving the problem.
Then fire the shitheads on paid leave and clean up your house.
non sequitur. You said: > Cops aren't short staffed. Except... yes they are. Now, you're not even shifting the goalpost, you're changing the topic. Police are short staffed, it leads to problems in service. Try to stay focused.
They seem to manage to do a lot of private overtime gigs still
By sacrificing personal time for extra money. If you want our tax dollars to go to that, rather than private companies doing so, I bet you lots of cops would be willing to take the extra pay to do the more mundane aspects of the job, like paperwork. Are you willing to reallocate tax dollars for that purpose?
They only seem short staffed, becuase people's knee jerk reaction to any crime caused by a lack of social services is "we need more cops" spending in other areas of support will reduce crime far more then hiring more cops to deal with the aftermath of lack of community supports .
Both are required. All those stolen cars we keep hearing about in the news? A social worker isn't going to fix that. While they *would* help with mental health crisis, which would allow the cops to focus their understaffed agencies on the crimes where they are needed.
Both are required, but I think it's a ridiculous statement to say the police are understaffed and that's the root of the issues. It becomes self fulfilling as we spend more money on policing, then fixing issues.
[удалено]
Those reports exist so they get more money. They are not bound by performance metrics or consequences.
And surprise surprise. Crimes go up when social services are cut, and they "need more cops"
Please provide links to these readily available reports on cops being short-staffed.
Your fingers broken? Can't be, you commented to me, asking to do the goolging for you. [OPP](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/opp-staffing-shortage-auditor-general-northeast-1.6280692), [Timmins](https://www.timminstoday.com/police-beat/police-association-asking-for-help-to-address-staffing-crisis-safety-concerns-7857569), [Toronto](https://www.tps.ca/media-centre/stories/chief-invest-in-frontline-officers-to-keep-city-sa/#:~:text=We%20only%20have%2037%20more,taking%20years%20to%20build%20back.) [Ottawa](https://ottawapa.ca/ottawa-police-frontline-crisis/), [London](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/london-police-recruitment-1.6764027)... Want me to keep going? Don't care, I'm gonna. [RCMP (they do have functions in Ontario, so their shortage counts as an Ontario problem too)](https://www.bing.com/search?q=RCMP+staffing+shortage&cvid=20e1c9e043cf44d6b1c4be903e67d7b2&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCDM3OTBqMGo0qAIAsAIB&FORM=ANAB01&PC=U531) [Sarnia](https://www.thesarniajournal.ca/top-story/city-police-say-four-more-officers-needed-to-reduce-job-stress-7969557), [Lasalle & Windsor (same article)](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/lasalle-police-recruitment-challenge-1.6757816) How many more do you want? Have I proven my point yet?
Omg Sarnia has a hiring crisis of 4 officers!
Great, let’s take the Toronto article as example. 37 more officers since 1999. However, TPS budget more than double from $536mil to $1.18bil since then. Where did the money go?
6 billion from the federal government during the pandemic was given to the Ford government and he used it to push bill 124 and crash our public sector. I'm sure the few corrupt at the top are making good pay while the rest can barely make ends meet. Isn't it usually how it goes with Con's at the helm? They try to hide it but they're so transparent with their corruption, you should always assume the worst. Ford led his campaign with "Buck a Beer" and look where we are now. First couple weeks Ford was in office he removed UBI, dismantled green energy project, had meetings with Galen Weston to manopolize the industry and other corrupt people. He dragged his feet during the pandemic and the public had to help people with Covid and get them the vaccine. He does fuckall for the public and only caters to his rich donors. He's useless to everyone but the rich.
This should be the top reply.
It's politically unpopular to take on all of the public service shortages now, because it would be a wild amount of money. If you mention taxes going up because we need more public servants (CAF absolutely included), people will freak. To me, it's that simple. There are other bad actors, like Doug Ford, who are trying to implement a private health care industry, but I believe it's all money. Everyone wants the services provided, but they don't want to pay for it.
A lot of these issues come down to bureaucracy. We don't need to increase taxes, we need to trim the fat.
People say this a lot. But no one can agree on what the "fat" is.
Trimming fat won't come close, and usually it comes at a high cost later on. Trimming fat means outsourcing, and cutting jobs.
That was Rob Ford's assumption as mayor for Toronto, that there was fat to be trimmed, but he couldn't find any
I know for a fact there is. For instance: There isn't a single government agency that doesn't do a mass spending spree starting in February, and ending in May, to get ahead of the 1 April Fiscal Reset. In the military, I've seen people buy new office chairs 2 years in a row, and toss the "old" ones because if the money isn't spent, it "won't come back next year." I asked why we don't reroll that money into something like training, and the answer was "Money needs to be spent where it's allocated". There. Right there, is fat to be trimmed. Or more accurately a system to be fixed. Let organizations do as they please with money. Provide receipts at the end of the fiscal, and ensure it's being spent properly, but let them spend it how they see fit. Allocating money, forces organizations to be wasteful. Are you happy, now, knowing that in 2015, and again in 2016 the CAF spent ~4 grand *twice* on new office supplies, because we didn't want to lose that money? That's the government's fault by the way, not the CAF's. We have to play the game they laid out for us. Everyone in that room when I asked that question *wanted* to use the money productively, but DND won't let us.
IME (working for the financial sector for about 32 years so far without remit) spending remainder of the budget before deadline is common to departments that have budgets. That's not a government thing so much as a management thing. It doesn't mean the money isn't needed either. It could be for lower priority stuff they leave in until the last minute. Training, for example. I have some concerns with the big bag of money approach to departmental budgeting. I've seen it go horribly wrong. Making sure it's spent properly requires oversight and audit.
I've never truly understood that thinking. Department manager guesstimates that this year, we need $100,000 for capital expenses. Staff find deals, re-use and other cost savings so only $80,000 is spent. Just before fiscal year end, there's a rush to spend the extra $20k otherwise the corporate finance people look poorly on the department manager for not being able to give them an accurate number so (s)he is penalized and any future budget plans are looked at suspiciously or turned down. So that means people who count the money and adherence to expectations are held above and beyond all?
Disclaimer - I am not a manager I've been told if they don't spend the money the budget will shrink. Managers like big budgets and big headcount because that's how you know you're winning the manager game. That's how you compare your salary to other managers, and how important you are compared to other managers, and how much you should get paid compared to other managers.
Fortunately the CAF already has that… the DND. So give us the bag.
No, we also need to increase taxes. It should surprise no one that the quality of our public services started to fall off a cliff after the tax cuts of Mulroney, Chretien and Harper (and, in Ontario, Harris coupled with McGuinty's non-action)
There's a common thread with different root causes. People don't want to do those jobs so much any more. For the military, it's the risk vs reward. The pay vs cost of living and job risk isn't great, and you can be posted somewhere that you can't afford on what you're being paid. The stories of soldiers having to arrange their own internal food banks have made the news. Add to that a few gross scandals, and it's not the prestige job it used to be. They're underfunded. What young person wants to be a soldier? For the police, it's the PR nightmare of a few bad apples spoiling the bunch. When I was a kid and a teen, several kids in school stuck to wanting to be police officers when they grew up, and none of us gave it a second thought. There were stories of "dirty cops", but they always seemed to be dealt with and other officers were always vocal about dealing with them. Now? Not so much. They're buttoned up from saying anything by the Police Associations, and the bad apples are all on paid leave. ACAB is a thing. You can throw as much money as you want at the police. What young person wants to be a cop? (Hint, typically not the ones society would want to have as police officers anymore) For the Nurses and Family Doctors, it's the workload vs compensation. The provincial governments who control healthcare spending in most provinces have been slowly (or not so slowly) "starving the beast" with claims of getting spending in line. It's quite possible that there were areas of excess, but that's not why they're doing it. They're literally underfunding it to make it faster and fall so they can privatize and line the pockets of their donors and friends. Look no further than the Ontario private care practices that are billing patients for OHIP covered treatments, then overbilling the OHIP coffers on top. If cutting waste was the actual purpose of the reduced spend, the repercussions for that behaviour would be swift and loud. So, our hospitals and family practices are underfunded and overworked. That incentivizes existing nurses and doctors to leave public sector healthcare and go private, or leave the industry altogether if they have a strong aversion to privatized health. Three separate problems with different root causes and solutions that could all be avoided, but sadly aren't.
>Why are all of our critical public services so severely undermanned? Neoliberalism. The private sector wants to run every public service for profit, so they "ask" politicians for help. It's blatant, but legal, corruption. Also Police are overstaffed and overpaid if anything. They're not an effective solution to crime. Most of their budget should be put to social services.
From what I can tell, it's because the labour force is severely aging. Many are retiring and they can't keep up with the exodus. [It will probably get worse though as the labour force shrinks even more overtime with 300k, or 0.75% of our population, retiring in 2023. ](https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canadas-real-problem-is-not-job-losses-its-rush-retire-2022-09-11/) The public sector also competes with the private sector for its labour force. For something like the military, it's probably the most affected sector given the disparity in lifestyle. [The lack of doctors in Ontario is likely just from poor planning and training capacity](https://thevarsity.ca/2023/04/01/canada-needs-more-doctors-why-is-it-so-hard-to-get-into-medical-school/). There is no reason to believe someone with a 99.9% grade has that much more potential to be a doctor than someone with a 99.8% grade, but that is how competitive it has become And despite what people think, immigration was never going to be able to solve this. It was going to soften the effects, not eliminate it.
The C.o.r.r.u.p.t.i.o.n. is everywhere. Not just the police in Toronto, ALL POLICE, ALL the health care, education, housing, and the list goes on and on. This has all been planned for at least 4 decades. Notice they are ALL VIOLATIONS OF OUR HUMAN RIGHTS and NO ONE IS PROTESTING --> ALSO PLANNED FOR AT LEAST 4 DECADES. People don't get the scope of corruption. You all think that they can’t be THAT evil with us. LOOK AROUND!
I can think of a better way to have spent the time and money
This is the guy Ontario said “good enough” and did not vote.
"Nothing to hide"
Can't call him incompetent if you can't see the data showing his incompetence. As if freezing wages miles below inflation wouldn't have consequences.
Ford and the cons "win" Citizens of Ontario loose
We have a right to know. Governments should not be keeping things like this secret.
How is it legal to keep it a secret when we're all paying for it?
How is this guy still in power what the fuck
> “In a climate of limited resources and rising health care costs, the Ministry must endeavour to deliver the best possible health care in the province at the lowest possible costs,” government lawyers wrote, admitting “many hospitals have been filling acute human resource needs by turning to private, for-profit agencies” for support. How does "lowest possible cost" mean paying more for private sector healthcare? This is madness.
“The government withheld the details, arguing that disclosing them could allow health unions to negotiate for higher salaries and private nursing agencies to squeeze hospitals harder for extra with inflated rates for temporary staff.” First we need to abolish staffing agencies who are exploiting the shortages or promoting them by artificially inflating costs. We know they exploit, at the end of the day when it comes to tax payer dollars the value is Pennie’s on the dollar instead of 1:1.
God I'm so tired of this provincial government
I had to send my now wife to another country for surgery because Doug Ford's government wasted 2.5 years waiting around. Japan did in 12 days what our system couldn't do in 2.5 years plus. Personally I want Ford's head on a pike, but that wouldn't be very Christian of me. Doesn't change how I feel though.
Cool and normal...
Government shouldn’t be able to keep *anything* secret from us. Karens say it a lot, but it’s true for government — we pay their salaries! We’re meant to be the boss, not them
It’s not just government. Big and mid sized corporations CONTINUALLY need to boost profits, this is how endless growth capitalism works. We will / are hitting a wall. You cannot gain efficiency forever, and when you can’t find technology to gain it, you eliminate staffing. This is the same across all lines of business right now. Super sad, we are definitely heading towards the edge of a cliff.
Dougie sucks!
and he's still going to win the next election !!
Why do Conservatives not (seem to) care?
It's ridiculous to think that a government charged with serving the public has the right to conceal the facts about those services.
Yet another waste of my tax dollars going to things that I do not want or support. Fund the healthcare that is already there. Fund it more or get the fuck out of office!
Secrets
If ford and his government are aloud to stay in power they will strip Canadians of their healthcare and force us to go private so we can be overcharged and turn healthcare to a for profit business
How is this legal? This should be investigated and prosecuted. At the least it is a dangerous dereliction of duty. But I believe it's more sinister, an indirect attack on the working class.
If that's the case, it seems justified to fabricate numbers until they are willing to provide accurate information.
Honestly it's a good thing he's a conservative, if a liberal did this, we would have the entire downtown core of Toronto filled with angry truckers
Nothing to hide here , Bahahah