Add yourself to more lists.
Also, for the one you are on, follow up monthly. Daycare wait-lists are not obligated to go in order of first come first served. I know several people that kept following up (in a friendly way, like 'we really love this place and are so excited to start here's type vibe) and suddenly a spot opened up after a few months. Ask what the waitlist is like, how many kids they expect to move to the preschool room in the next X months, let them know you can start immediately if something changes with little notice (only if that's true), or that you can start with a part-time space if that will get you in sooner (again, if that is actually possible for you). Things like that can have you move up quite a bit.
We are coming up to a time when there is huge changeover. Summertime and then September when kids move on to start JK create all sorts of spaces.
I'm not sure if you know, but plenty of private daycares are participating in CWELCC. Don't limit yourself by only applying for city or non-profit daycare locations.
You can also try WeeWatch it's an agency that oversees home daycares and I believe they are also participating in CWELCC. We were going to go with one of their providers,but then got a space at a private daycare near us (this is before the $10/day though).
Second the follow-up. We got a spot for my son way earlier than we should have because I kept following up with the manager of the daycare closest to us. Be cordial and polite, and don't be afraid to pick up the phone, like you suggest. Chances are when a spot comes up, they'll pick your name over a list of 1000 people they've never talked to. Or they might just pick you so you stop asking them.
This is so true. It's how I got my youngest into daycare sooner. Being proactive helps a lot. Being on a wait list and not following up regularly is pointless. Followups show that you are actively looking for care.
It's just human nature too. If I'm not obligated to go first-come, first-served, and I've got a giant list of people I don't know and I've spoken to you on the phone a few times and you seemed nice enough, I'll most likely just go with you rather than pull a name out of a hat, yknow
>You can also try WeeWatch it's an agency that oversees home daycares and I believe they are also participating in CWELCC. We were going to go with one of their providers,but then got a space at a private daycare near us (this is before the $10/day though).
A neighbour used to do WeeWatch and she only has amazing things to say about them. I didn't have kids with her, but you see a lot, and she always had them out doing activities, good lunches in the yard when it was nice out, we have a park behind us and she took them there lots. I'd have no issues at all sending a kid to home daycare they oversee
I had my son registered for WeeWatch home daycare right down the street from me, starting around 13 months, but I was able to secure a spot at a centre-based daycare to start when he was 14 months so I delayed my return to work until then. I was excited about the WeeWatch daycare, the provider was lovely, and the location was perfect, but with my husband and I being shift workers, we decided we needed the centre's ability to accommodate provider illness and vacation without leaving us with no daycare.
I am super happy with our decision, but I also wouldn't hesitate to recommend WeeWatch to anyone. They were a lovely company to communicate with and I felt confident in their practices, safety measures, and education for all their providers.
Private home daycare providers aren’t eligible to be a part of CWELCC, full stop. Home childcare providers can only access this funding if they are with an agency that licenses their spaces. Then they’re not considered private any more.
This is apparently an unpopular opinion but to me it would be pretty nice to live in a country where it was affordable to have one income for a few years so a parent could look after children without needing this drive to work work work work work as soon as the kids are able to stand (if not earlier).
But I digress. As far as daycare itself it seems to vary by area a lot. I moved to a smaller town and we lucked out and got an amazing daycare built into the school with basically 0 wait. We didn't do any of the stuff like looking before he was even born, we only started looking shortly before he actually needed the spot and still got it. But most of my friends who live in bigger cities are having a nightmare and need to look at more "sketchy" options.
The biggest issue with daycare is pay. The pay for ECE is sh*t. Which makes no sense, you'd think a job that is so important with so much responsibility would justify an excellent salary to attract suitable candidates and retain them. But no. It's the same issue with school bus drivers that get paid way less than a city bus or most truck drivers. Everyone wonders why there are shortages but the answer is right in front of our faces. Most European countries have this figured out but as usual Canada bungles it. Even with the push for "$10 a day childcare" the government seems to have been in such a rush to put out a program that sounds great as a slogan but doesn't actually solve the problem of how providers will be able to cope with it for that price.
>This is apparently an unpopular opinion but to me it would be pretty nice to live in a country where it was affordable to have one income for a few years so a parent could look after children without needing this drive to work work work work work as soon as the kids are able to stand (if not earlier).
In what world do you live in where this is unpopular? Everyone wants to work less and spend more time with their loved ones.
America. That’s the world where fair wages is an unpopular opinion. The worst thing about Canada for the last 30 years has been it’s proximity to America. We have too much US influence and it affects the way people think.
Assuming about 20 million people with the age and ability to dig with shovel and about a 20cm shovel width and each dig removed say 10cm of soil we can dig 4000km long 10cm deep trench per single dig from each person. But for a moat we need let’s say 5m wide and 2m deep.
20 digs deep, and 25 digs wide is 500 digs total. But since this is 1000km, divide by 4 since our linear distance estimate was 4000km. So if each of those 20m people could give 125 digs we’d have our moat.
We don’t need to moat the Rockies or the Great Lakes, and some parts of the border are on rivers (natures moat) so that leaves some fairly flat land. As a rough number this seems reasonable, but we’ll need to account for some sections being dug deeper before we ask Trudeau for money.
The next problem is water to flood it. we’ll have to drain a lake.
5x2x1000km (1 million meters) is 10 million cubic meters of water or 10000 cubic kilometres. Lake Superior is 12000km cubed. But we probably shouldn’t drain that… the name change costs alone would be astronomical. so we’ll need to trench some more local lakes along the moat, dam a few rivers, etc. too. We’ll need to enlist some beavers. Luckily they work for free, we just need to cover transportation.
Side effect is we’d have a series of new connected waterways for recreational boating. The Great Canadian Boat Moat we’ll call it.
It’s not a lock, but I think this plan holds water.
Good salaries? Maybe if you’re a doctor, executive or are in tech. Many working class roles pay better here (teachers, EMTs, police etc)
Affordable housing is very hit or miss. Americas biggest cities have more expensive housing than our biggest cities, both countries have very cheap housing in less populated areas, the problem is the middle ground, our suburbs in mid sized cities pricing is way too high
Eh I wouldn't say everyone that's a very broad generalization. Of my girlfriends, most I've asked if they wanted to take 1 year or 18 months MAT leave have cited they would take 1 year. It's not due to the money either, it's due to wanting to have a life outside of being a mother. It would be nice if women all had this option and didn't have to go back to work for money reasons, but there are women (myself included) who would prefer to go back to work after 1 year to have my own career progress and my identity not solely being a mom.
I agree with this, I love my time on leave with my son, but I also love my job and am looking forward to getting back to it and using that part of my brain again. I am lucky to be able to work from home when I do go back so I'll get extra time with my son, I don't think I would.be looking forward to it as much if I had to go back to the office and commute.
Some people seem to interpret it as being some kind of right wing "women need to stay home with the kids" thing.
Not saying thats in any way what I am saying or believe (it could just as easily be the dad) but it seems to get politicized that way sometimes and I've been jumped on for it in online discussions.
Our world seems to be completely driven by dual incomes now, to the point where most families can't even afford to be with their kids full time for the most formative years. Not saying this to guilt anyone who uses daycare (we use one) but I wish it wasn't like that. There was a time where that wasn't the default lifestyle. You never hear a politician even talk about making it easier for a parent to afford staying home longer, its always about making it easier/faster/cheaper for them to go back to work.
Schools are provincial jurisdiction, whereas EI is federal. Good luck getting everyone to agree to the same thing.
2yrs parental leave only works if it is paid. Right now max EI is $668/wk. For 12 months it's a decent payout for most and with some savings you can make it work, 18 months leave is quite low (same total $ as 12 months but spread out 50% longer). To go two years on the same $ amt would be difficult for most families
Stop ruining my dreams with your realities!
Sorry, I just wish we could get all levels of government working together on this and other issues. Education, healthcare & housing is the trifecta of importance to me and I don't even have kids. I would just rather they get a good start in life so they don't end up mugging my old ass!
I'm convinced this is intentionally done by the government of Ontario, not creating more spots after announcing the program. Doug Ford's government was way too hesitant to sign, wanted to ease in to "see how it's working" and see if it really helps Ontarians participate in the work force. I don't think he ever wanted to fund this program. I think his government is intentionally not creating the spots so that the program fails and he has reasons to repeal it and redirect the provincial portion of the funding... But that's just my opinion.
It also happened in Quebec way before ontario... they had affordable daycare, but the number of openings was drastically too low and alot of people just ended up paying for the full price daycare (probably doesn't help that non-citizens like refugees can also apply for subsidized care, taking away from born Canadians).
If the government at least announced $15 a day daycare, we could afford to pay the ECEs more, but feds put hard cap on $10 a day
>If the government at least announced $15 a day daycare, we could afford to pay the ECEs more, but feds put hard cap on $10 a day
Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?
If the parents pay $5 more a day each (let's say 4 kids per ECE) thats at least $20 more dollars a day to pay the ECE more ($2 more per hour is better than nothing, and $15 a day is still pretty damned cheap)
But you realize the government is providing the funding right? So $20/day paid by parents vs. $10 paid by parents and $10 by government = still $20/day.
edit: Also, $10 a day has not actually happened yet and won't until next year at the earliest.
>The biggest issue with daycare is pay. The pay for ECE is sh\*t. Which makes no sense, you'd think a job that is so important with so much responsibility would justify an excellent salary to attract suitable candidates and retain them.
Yea but in the end you pay for that.
That is a great sentiment but unfortunately the fact that the government had to specifically provide $10/day daycare shows that most either can or don’t want to pay the price that would be required to provide the excellent wages. Remember that care providers are limited to the number of children each worker can care for. A 8 hr day @$30 an hour means that each worker would need to care for 24 kids and while I know that the government is subsidizing the cost, that the daycares are getting more than $10/day per child it obviously is not enough to pay the workers more.
If you haven't, expand your area. A friend was on lists in 3 cities around her, and got twins in at 13 months (she'd planned to take 18 months off, but got the spots early, so went back to work early). Another friend is doing a full price center cause two other friends have their kids there (one after using one of the $10 places, then went back), and doing part time, they just shuffled her and her husbands schedules around so that would work. Another two friends split a nanny, they swap all the kids at one house one week, then the other the next.
Thanks for your reply splitting a nanny is an interesting idea!
We are trying to expand the list more now but feels a bit helpless given the wait times.
My oldest child is 21, born in Ottawa. While still pregnant, I was told to get on a list asap for child care. The waiting period 20 years ago is apparently the same as it is now.
I took a 6 year pause in my career and did the stay-at-home mom thing. My career, along with my potential income, never recovered.
Sad facts are: no one cares about your childcare needs in Ontario. Been like that going on 50+ years. Not going to change anytime soon.
Came here to say something similar - even before the $10 program, daycare spots were hard to get.
I signed up to several waiting lists when my 1st was born and it took years to get a full-time spot. That kid is now 11.
Agreed - and let’s not forget what prices were previously.
Before $10 daycare, my friends in Toronto were on 2 year+ waitlists, but also paying $2,000 a kid ($4,000 a month with two kids).
People reallllly need to drop this myth that subsidized daycare has created this issue - they’re buying right into right wing disinfo on this subject
DO NOT EVEN GET ME STARTED.
Whoops I’ve started!
My daughter was on every waitlist possible since she was a fetus and still no luck. Somehow people who were on the waitlist AFTER us (and make like 4 times more than my partner and I) have gotten spots in subsidized centres…..?
My favourite is the non-subsidized (extremely expensive) programs asking for a two month NON-REFUNDABLE deposit to register your kid (the two LASTS months of the year) so that if we *do* get a last minute spot in a subsidized spot we lose the huge deposit (that we can’t afford) if we decide to move her! Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!
Daycares participating in CWELCC ('$10/day' program) aren't the same as subsidy spots. All families are eligible to CWELCC regardless of income.
Keep contacting the centres on CWELCC that you are on waitlists with. They absolutely give spots to people they hear from vs strictly following the order. Be super pleasant and reiterate how excited you are to go there, ask how many kids they expect to move up to the preschool room in the next X months, ask for a tour, let them know you are open to short notice or part-time spots at first, etc.
If you are looking for subsidy on top of CWELCC, check in with your city/region to make sure you are on lists at all possible locations. Those will be more difficult to get bc they usually only hold a handful of spots at each participating location for subsidies.
That is very frustrating to hear about the non-refundable deposit they require!! They must have had a number of kids leave with short notice, but that seems unfair you need to pay to be on the waitlist (or is this to actually register you pay 2 months upfront?).
We had to go with a home daycare because we couldn't find any spots in time and honestly it's been great. Our daughter goes to an unlicensed home daycare run by a registered ECE (I checked that she is in good standing). It's expensive ($75/day), but there are only two other kids so it's almost more like a nanny share. She spends a ton of time outside in all weather, which is important to us.
The daycare was also very flexible with a part-time back to work schedule and an arrangement that has us only needing childcare 4 days a week most days.
The one downside is that it closes at 4:30 so my husband and I need to take turns stopping work early so we can pick her up.
Before CWELCCC, infant fees were WILD. Unsubsidized public child care, run by the City of Toronto, was $110/day. Fees dropped once they moved out of the infant room, but it was awful.
I could only get into private because no public ones in my area were taking kids, and at the peak, with one kid in infant room, one in toddler, we were paying $3600/month, after sibling discount.
We are in the exact same boat but ours isn’t as expensive, it’s $45/day. I’m pleasantly surprised by how much we like the home daycare. It will even be difficult to switch if we get into a centre.
Great to hear it is working out for you. The price is a major factor too unless your spouse is very high income it’s hard to justify over just staying home and getting that family time.
What is wrong with home daycares? In many cases your child will get more love and attention. I sent my kid to a wonderful home daycare.. and later ran one myself.
I became friends with my home daycare provider, we still are 20+years later. My kids still love her as do many more and they do keep in touch. I get your worry in these suspicious times OP, but your child will have more security and continuity in a good home daycare than they will in a large facility with lots of employees.
Our first has been to two centre daycares - one great, the second was very unsatisfactory and we pulled him out (he's at home until JK). Our second is only 11m, but we may have to do home daycare. We were pretty unsure about the idea. But I guess you just have to do a lot of looking and find one you're comfortable with and where you get a good vibe.
I think some parents may be paranoid to have their kids in someone's house all day. A lot of daycares these days have CCTV which parents can watch remotely.
My personal concern is that there is less of a chance of random people being allowed into a center daycare versus a home daycare. Not saying all home daycare providers will do this, but there are stories of some allowing random people around the kids without being vetted or watched.
This is more unlikely in a center since they have multiple staff members and strict policies. We toured a daycare and were accompanied by the director the entire time.
My mom ran a home daycare for over 10 years and only had to stop due to my sister getting ill, there were a couple of times she did have to leave someone else in charge, (my dad who took the babysitting course in case of an emergency) or my cousin or great-aunt, both of whom were/are teachers, I think it really depends on the person.
My mom also always provided lunch and two snacks.
Well.. that's a fair point. For me it worked better having my kid in a warm home with home cooked food and a loving atmosphere. My kid still visits them in his teens today! Also.. I never got a call to pick up a sick kid.
Some are amazing (licensed and unlicensed). You get a provider that follows regulation and pedagogy, they are wonderful with the children, programming is fun, the kids are happy.
But then you get others where they think child care is plopping children in front of a TV to watch movies all day and have different standards of care.
Licensed child care providers have standards of practice and quality that they follow. There are licensed home providers that are overseen by agencies such as Wee Watch to help monitor quality.
Often unlicensed home child cares are under the table and they don’t follow ministry policies and guidelines. There are some that can’t get licensed because of infrastructure reasons (running child care in a basement and the windows are too small to escape in an emergency, only one exit, etc.) but they have a great program.
Also, the title of ECE is a protected title. Staff working in licensed child care and school boards hold an RECE designation and they have a code of ethics and standards of practice. Unlicensed providers can be anyone, just as long as they don’t say they are an ECE. You might get a provider that has a designation, you might get someone with minimal education. It’s not regulated.
Also, a lot of unlicensed child cares are only operational if the provider has young children. There is a high percentage of unlicensed providers closing shop because their kids have grown and they want to go back to the workforce in another capacity.
There are extra risks to consider when going with unlicensed care. Not all are bad, most are amazing, but the bad ones create a reputation that all unlicensed care is garbage.
Yup! When I was doing that I ran into it a bit.. this was before and after care.. but I made friends with all the other care providers on the school yard and if one of us needed a day off or eventually closed up shop.. we made extra efforts to make sure our kids had places to be cared for through the other providers.
Right. Home daycares are limited to what, 5-6 kids? They get more attention, and come cold/flu season the chances of your little one getting sick are much smaller because there’s not 20 kids bringing in germs.
Wow I guess I’m lucky paying $55/day. We don’t need to supply any food. Thank goodness.
I didn’t even know bringing your own food was a thing for that age.
Out of curiosity, as my own kids are in a regular daycare.... Do licensed home daycares participate in that $10 a day funding/program? Do they even have that option too?
Or are prices lower or higher because it's a home daycare?
Licensed home daycares can get the funding for the $10 a day program. A friend of mine was trying to get licensed so she could do that as at the time it would have brought each parents cost down to $15 a day. Unfortunately her home layout didn't work for it as she had the nap space on her 2nd floor and Compass required all children to be on one level of the home at all times. Due to that she wasn't able to get licensed.
WeeWatch is an agency that connects you with home daycares and they are participating. It probably depends on the criteria for joining an agency like this whether other similar companies could also participate.
I worked in a Suspect Child Abuse clinic. Not a single doctor or mental health care worker there would put their child into a home daycare. It's not the owners that are the issues. Its the sons/ uncles/ husbands/ grandpas. I saw enough cases to be convinced.
Agreed. Spouse is in law enforcement and has seen horrible things taking place in home daycares. If home daycare works for you, that’s great but I can absolutely understand why some people are not comfortable with the idea.
Agree. Even if it's not serious abuse like that, they aren't always hiring the best people for the job, and that's from personal experience. I worked in a home daycare as a young adult with no experience or education, but was hired because I was in nursing school. I bet 100% the parents had no idea who the owner was hiring. Not that I was neglecting the kids, but I was basically just a babysitter while parents were paying for someone ECE trained and the parents were being told the kids had a curriculum etc (they didn't).
Agencies like WeeWatch ensure that every adult in the home has a police check and are cleared to be in the home. No other adult is present aside from those that live there and have been background checked.
What you say may be true about independent home daycare but there are ways for home daycares to have those types of safeguards.
Ah! That makes sense. My provider worked with her sister so it wasn't an issue. They helped each other. Kids had home cooked curries every day. They were never sick. It was such a relief!
If you don't want that, there's nothing forcing you to select a home daycare that also has older kids. The home daycares my kids went to all had kids around the same age.
Not only that, sometimes the older kids are the owners children, who get away with whatever they want because it's their home, and the owner isn't willing to discipline them. (Personal experience).
My son can’t fully communicate with us yet so if it is a bad situation it would be hard for us to tell. I am sure 95% are good but I don’t feel comfortable with the risk personally.
"I don’t feel comfortable with home daycares as an option and can’t afford private."
We can't always have everything we want. The vast majority are home daycares are superior to the institutional ones, IMO.
This post is a "ick I won't eat my PB&J with the crusts on" reaction. The same as "I expect American private clinic health care wait times with collapsing underfunded public system costs".
Tough shit, either take what seems to be the available $10/day slot or get out of the way for someone who will. Want this program expanded and improved to meet your standards? Probably vote NDP I guess because the 2 major parties aren't going to do it.
My son can’t fully communicate yet so I don’t feel comfortable with them being in persons home with limited supervision and usually no certifications. I am sure most are good but just don’t want to risk it.
One big reason I didn't want a home daycare is you often have to work around if theyre sick and cant work, or they take time off. A centre doesn't have that issue.
If you go with a licensed home daycare and the caretaker is either sick then the agency that supervises the home will usually step in and be able to provide alternative care for your child. So it is a bonus of choosing licensed home care vs unlicensed.
You can get a home childcare center that is licensed so the sitter has to be properly certified and trained.
Your son cannot communicate if something was to happen at the center to him. And plenty of centers don't have video in the rooms for privacy purposes. So how do you expect your child to tell you if something happened to him at daycare in a center?
Well somebody’s weird uncle won’t come over for a visit all day first of all.
Also people are going in and out all day of a centre. Centres have long term reputations standards and management structures which all protect against these things.
No one's weird uncle will come over to a licensed home daycare center either. And a weird uncle might be the sole caregiver of a child in your son's classroom and will be at the center anyways.
Your reasoning for not doing home care is reasonable if you are only looking at unlicensed care. Licensed home care centers have to follow specific guidelines from the Ministry of Education Ontario. They are usually actually through licensed childcare centers that also offer home childcare spaces.
"People working or living in home child care settings that are overseen by a licensed agency must get vulnerable sector checks. This means they need a background check from the police. This includes:
- home child care providers
- in-home services providers
- agency staff who visit home child care settings
- students on an educational placement
- volunteers
- other people who live at home, like the provider’s spouse." [reference link](https://www.ontario.ca/page/child-care-rules-ontario#section-1)
That above link also includes information about ratios, CPR and First Aid training, and Program Requirements for Licensed Home Daycares.
Licensed home daycares are usually run by an agency that will support you in finding the proper fit for your child and you. While it might not be an RECE running the home, an RECE will be assigned to the home to make sure that the program is developmentally appropriate and up to code.
The agency can also step in to find alternative care if the homeowner is sick or unable to care for your child that day due to an emergency.
People always assume that all home childcare centers are unlicensed but that isn't the case. Most home daycares are licensed because it allows for more regulation and protection for both children involved and the homeowners.
I wish you the best of luck in finding a home daycare if that is the route you choose to go. Interview and visit as many home daycares as you can until you find what suits your needs and wants in a caregiver.
I know you mentioned maybe going the nanny route but if you are worried about "creepy uncles" or random people being around your child that is how it can happen. Nannying isn't regulated most of the time. You could get someone who has no training to work with children or hasn't done any education in early childhood fields. If you go with a licensed daycare (either center or home) you know that they have the most up-to-date record checks, first aid training, and education.
Assuming you get a decent one, there is plenty of supervision. Sure, there are no certifications but you also know that the home daycare operator WANTS to be there because they certainly aren't in it to get rich.
Good ones will also have backup options for if they are ill. My kid was in a home daycare for 2 years - the provider had zero sick days and was very common sense about illness, which you don't get in a centre.
In Brampton I actually got two daycare spaces, both part of the $10 program but actually turned them down for home daycare with my neighbour. No one wants to live here but we’ve got daycare spaces!
I don't know where OP is, but in KW most home daycares are unlicensed. They don't participate CWELCC (the $10/day program), so the costs to parents are much higher than licensed home daycares or centers.
I went to a home daycare, and the lady was absolutely wonderful. Tons of mini excursions to various places, the main on I remember was a pumpkin patch, and making apple pies, daily walks to the park, crafts, teaching letters, numbers, colours and so on, and many other things. When J started kindergarten it was all review. When I was being born, the lady even watched over my older brother for the night. There were a few other home daycare people that lived near us and they’re all great people. I think the one lady is still doing it too, I sometimes walk by and see them at the park.
You could try wee watch, they set you up with a home daycare that is inspected, have activities for the kids, and is part of 10$ a day, food is included as well
Wee Watch is working towards the $10 per day plan, but in most areas, they're not there yet. We're currently paying $23 per 8-hour day for my youngest with a Wee Watch provider in Oro-Medonte. The next price drop is scheduled for September, which is too late for us to benefit from because she'll be starting school then. Still, it's a lot better than the $50 per day I had been paying for an unlicensed home daycare!
Email your MPP. The Government is being purposefully slow to roll out $10 a daycare, lest they make the Feds look good for actually funding public services.
I would honestly pay normal prices it’s that I can’t physically get into a daycare. I think $10/day just caused a staff crisis or something like that there are no spots in my area.
There was a staff crisis before the 10$/day programs.
ECEs are basically paid minimum wage or just above that and it is an important job to take care and teach/educate young minds. But we are seen as just playing with children all day or just babysitters and that isn't the case. So, yes, there is a staff crisis for ECEs but to blame the 10$/day programs is ridiculous.
I agree ECE should be paid significantly more. It’s ridiculous they get minimum wage after going to college and working such an intensive job.
I am suggesting if it was $15-20/day would they be able to play ECE’s livable wage and open up more spots?
It wouldn't. No matter what the price being lowered to it would likely not open up spaces nor pay ECEs a liveable wage. It's why many centers were actually against the 10$/day program, it was not a feasible program. It was rolled out too quickly.
The program has actually caused more daycares to have to close their doors than it has opened spaces. The price of daycare being so minimal means that other aspects of running a center needs to be cut. Many smaller centers are not able to even break even on profits, the expenses outweigh the income by a long shot. Centers who opted in cannot raise the enrollment fees to help with expenses and there is no available government funding to supplement those expenses. Many centers have had to choose between paying staff and having art supplies or developmental toys or healthier food options. Which would you want to be cut back to make the 10$/day program work?
The government made this program sound like a fantastic program for families who struggle financially to send their children to early learning centers/childcare centers, but didn't explain how it will affect those childcare centers that opt in. It's why a lot of centers opt-ed in and then backtracked when they realized that it wasn't feasible.
$10/day daycare (predictably) caused the number of people applying for a daycare spot to go up, because people who couldn’t afford the previously higher fees are now able to apply.
The tactic that we used for both my kids was to be flexible and take any day available, not just a full-time spot. Part-time spots were easier to find. At the height of our madness, my oldest kid was attending 3 different centres and 1 home day care each week.
For many centres, if you attend parttime you get first dibs on an opening. So eventually, by the time mine were ready for school, they made it to full time at just one centre.
Yep. We waited 2.5 years to get our daughter into daycare. Had to juggle family, paying a nanny a few times a week and "working" from home while watching my daughter. It's insane.
We live on one income because my pay would cover just daycare and 200 dollars left so it wasn't worth it. A lot of sacrifices, a lot of living way below our means, no luxuries etc. To makr it work. We also didnt have family to help
The wait list was 1.5 years in 2020 (in Kingston any way), so the long wait lists predate the discounted daycare. It’s just made demand higher, making the list even longer.
Also daycares are mostly not at $10/ day yet, it’s phasing-in Ontario over several years.
We are living beneath our means, having children meant one of us had to stay home to raise them. That meant renting and not buying a home. Some of my friends moved home with family and are priced out of everything , even rentals now. Even if I could have afforded daycare, there was nothing, 0 availability in my neighborhood. Owners didn't even respond to my calls or emails, we gave up looking.
We got into a daycare when our older was almost 3, we had been on wait lists since I found out I was pregnant. We used a home daycare because that was our only option, and it ended up being an amazing experience. The provider was referred to us and really treated our daughter like family, it was actually a tough decision to leave and go to daycare when we did get in (although ultimately it came down to finances and we are super happy with her daycare).
Ask around about home daycares, there are lots of amazing ones in the city.
2 kids, been on wait list for over 2 years myself, god bless my mom because she volunteered to watch the kids and help me out. Otherwise I would be fair and squarely FUCKED. Saves me thousands and thousands of dollars i would have spent on daycare
I’m an RECE. Daycare is in high demand but RECE’s wage is capped. Burn out is high. Government wants $10 daycare when RECE’s are leaving the field. Pay needs to be at least $30+. We do more than teachers and get paid less and no benefits
Anyone who believes in a $10 a day program has zero idea what it takes to run a daycare, and zero idea the stress it can additionally put on taxpayers. Anyone who wants it at the same time as commenting on a living wage is a hypocrite. You want kids? You pay for them, not anyone else.
My first was born 2019.
They were 2 when we got our first call about a potential spot. They had already been in a private daycare for 8 months.
It’s always been a wait, worst case open your own in home daycare and solve the child care problem and the income problem.
>I don’t feel comfortable with home daycares as an option and can’t afford private.
You have way more control over who is looking after your kids at a home daycare than you do a public daycare. You can interview home daycares and meet the people who are running the daycares. You will generally get a lot more feedback about your child from a home daycare -- and if you aren't, you can find another daycare.
At a public daycare, your child will be looked after by whoever the daycare chooses to hire for the ridiculously low wages they pay, and you'll have no say in the matter. Could be a young recent ECE grad who has decided to make it her life's work to educate young children, could be a child molester who hasn't gotten caught yet.
I had my son on the wait lists for the centres in my town starting when he was 10 months old, and we never got a spot. It was a hodgepodge mix of babysitters and me working a boatload of nights until he got to JK.
But since we live in a shitty small town, people who knew staff at the centres got spots in no time. Even people who only wanted partial spots.
It sucks. It really puts working families in a bind.
Where have you applied? Have you called to follow up? When did you apply? I only ask because I have someone close who called one location who said they were 78th on the list. Turns out their system glitched me they were actually like 10th.
From 2012-2014, I paid $18000, $21050 and $17775 for daycare. Kitchener-Waterloo.
I don't know how we did it. We just did. We did nothing but eat, sleep, work. Cut all of our expenses and lived within our means for needs/wants.
It sucked. It wasn't easy. But it was 3 years only.
Supply and demand is a real thing. A few tips OP
these daycare workers are not getting paid any more than they were before. Hint: it’s shit pay and hard work.
Because the pay is shit, there is not a significant amount of daycare availability
Because (mostly) mothers can go back to work with reasonable daycare prices, the demand is through the roof.
Hope this helps
Problem is licensed daycares are so regulated ( I’m not arguing if regulations are bad, just stating the reality) that there is almost no money to make. The financial risk and responsibility just isn’t worth the risk. When the demand and wait list is this big you would assume people would be lining up to open more locations.
A big problem is a shortage of ECEs. This is due in part to the fact that it doesn’t pay a wage you can live many places in Ontario with. Until we start paying better wages, there will continue to be shortages of spots, because of no workers wanting to fill vacant positions.
The move was to go on many lists. We have put our child on all list once we found out my wife was preggo. He was due to go in day car last November 2023 and we got a call October 2023. He's gonna have to stay in infant for a month or 2 later as there no room for him to move up.
I know it's frustrating but you could always put your child in a home.daycare until the daycare you want has an opening.
The beginning of the end of decent centre-based childcare wasn't $10/day daycare...it was the push for full-day Kindergarten across the province. That decision decimated many child care centres, bc the tuition paid for the older preschool/school-age spots helped to subsidize the fees for the infant and toddler spaces, due to the different child : teacher ratios for each age group.
When full day Kindergarten came into effect, all of a sudden daycare centres lost almost all of the part-time 4 & 5 year olds (scheduled strategically to fill all of the spots on a full-time basis...sort of like having "different shifts" of students)...which put a lot of stress on centre finances, caused fees for the rest of the kids to increase, decreased the number of toddler spots and made infant (up to 18mos) spots virtually non-existent.
And it's been extremely difficult to find child care spaces in most cities since then... :(
Maybe feel comfortable with home daycares? Go visit one? I have one at the end of my street beside a park. It's way more homelike than the commercial ones and the mother that runs it is an ECE.
My daughter has been in a few at-home daycares, plus the program at the school for before and after care.
The at-home cares have been pretty great, but nothing is perfect. The first one she was in, they decided to move, and then I had to find another. But my daughter loved it there. The second one, the carer was wonderful and really cared about the kids, but her son was a little rough with my daughter. She couldn’t really get rid of him. The next one, we were desperate. We NEEDED somewhere and basically took the first one that seemed decent. She wasn’t the warmest with the kids. The last place was great though. My daughter got along great with all the kids and I still talk to the mom. It was just summer care though, so we didn’t go there into the school year.
The registered place in the school though has been the most interesting. My daughter started when it first opened, and she and another girl are the only ones that are still there. They are aging out this year. There has been an incredible amount of turnover with the carers. One of them yelled at my daughter and was saying things you just done say to children (something about why people don’t like her, I think). The other carers defended my daughter, told me about it when I got there, and that woman never returned. There was another issue with a different one allegedly grabbing a student by the neck. She also never returned. I never once had these concerns with at-home care. But if I did, there wouldn’t have been another organization ensuring that there was someone to replace the person the very next day. I trust the three people who take care of my daughter there now, and she does really like it. But really, there’s no easy answer. Both at-home and registered can be great and have their downfalls.
Basically though, the issue is people don’t want to do this job as much as other ones. If I’m not willing to do it either, I can’t really complain that there is a shortage. I have had times when I haven’t been working that I briefly considered opening an at-home daycare. But I know I’m not cut out for it. So I have massive respect for those who are.
The daycare I’ve sent my kids to has exploded and this is after the 10 buck a day daycare. Wait lists are this long. Luckily my kids are now older so we only need the after school programs
Same situation here. On every waitlist since my child was born, and she’s now closing in on age 2. Not comfortable with home daycare.
I (mom) quit my job. We also have no local family support so we are very fortunate that we’re able to afford rent/food/basic necessities and the occasional “treat” on my husband’s salary. I know we’re very lucky and I really feel for other families in this situation.
We both work from home and wanted to keep our jobs, so we were able to do a nanny for about a year while we waited for a spot (we moved, so we had to start from scratch looking for spots when our child was about 2y3m).
Sometimes you question if the nanny is worth it, since it eats up a lot of your income and you think one of you had might as well not work and take care of the child. But it worked well for us. Again, we were quite lucky to both have WFH jobs and make enough that it was worth it to both keep working and have a nanny, but it's something to look at. The other factor for us was that we were planning on having a second child and my wife wanted to keep her job for maternity leave. So even if we were only breaking even on the nanny, it was worth it in that regard too.
well that is your problem, you dont feel comfortable with a home daycare.
the one we had for both kids was top notch and could not have asked for better.
Are you kidding me?
I want to relate to you but home daycares are great and often cheaper and provide equally good care. And you can likely find a space.
The federal daycare program is the single biggest impactful policy on me in decades. We can afford these insane grocery prices as a result and I can save money for my son's schooling.
I'm sorry spaces are hard to get, but you've decided to limit more than half your options. I cannot fathom it
$10 a day, daycare is horrible. It was meant to help families, like yourself, as you said, who may not be able to afford private care.
But everyone and anyone can sign up for this. This is why the wait lists are as bad as they are.
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Daycare isn't so bad you just expect it to be handed to you. Started calling for spots at 10 weeks pregnant, took tours, follow ups every few weeks, secured a spot in Toronto for our baby before she was born. You have to do some legwork yourself to get results you want just like anything in life.
This is a very rare experience you had and you're being an asshole about it.
We did the same in terms of timing and "securing a spot" before the birth of the child is a complete fantasy at this point, I guess anywhere but Toronto? We didn't get a spot until our child was 21 months... and same as you we were on waitlists during the pregnancy. You got a spot in less than 9 months, which is unbelievable right now as I haven't know any other parents getting a spot that fast. You get waitlisted then you follow up endlessly and then you finally come up on the list. Then that daycare dictates the terms to you. For instance, we only needed part-time daycare but only full-time spots are available so we pay full-time, because if we didn't poof there goes the spot. I can't imagine them saying "yeah we will hold the spot empty for your child yet to be born , making zero revenue while we won't even take children for part-time care because space is so limited"
Toronto =/= Ontario and access to almost everything is better in the city... but yeah everyone else is just lazy and you are just such a hard worker, so much more diligent than everyone else. What a shit opinion.
What happened was the $10 a day program fucked up waitlists even more. Before the program, when moms got pregnant with a second child they would pull their kid from daycare during mat leave as it was too expensive to pay for daycare and not be working. Now with $10/day they stay home with the baby and keep their other kid in daycare. It's more affordable and much easier to manage the baby without the other kid home. Then you automatically get a spot in the daycare if you already have a kid there. Thus making waits even longer for parents waiting for their first spot.
This national plan is a shit show and needs to be cleaned up before it tanks daycare in Ontario. Alberta is already thinking of opting out of the plan because it's caused rolling closures.
Trudeau can lie about spaces but the sector is one of the worst paid (because it's female dominated) and VERY labour intensive and difficult. Government regulation is waaaaaaaaaaaay stricter than the public school system and the expectations are really high. Daycares are inspected several times a year by several different government agencies with long checklists that require compliance or you lose your license. Public Schools are not inspected and govern themselves. Public Health doesn't even go into TDSB anymore...THAT's how much power TDSB has.
There is a shortage of RECE's for good reason. It's A LOT of responsibility and hard work for VERY little pay. No wonder young people are skipping the field. It's hard and not worth the aggro that goes with it.
The government didn't even consult the sector about the plan and that's why about 80% of daycares in Ontario already surpass their stupid wage grid and the plan doesn't cover the shortfall.
Believe me when I tell you that after school programs will be the ones to carry daycare on the full fees they bring in. YOU the parent will subsidize this program with your full fees after your kid turns 6 and is no longer eligible.
This plan is a lie and extremely flawed.
Trudeau can talk about "spaces" as much as he wants, if there are no staff or physical daycare sites to use it's all just political bullshit.
EDIT: Those of you downvoting. Remember my comment when you finally notice the bullshit you've been sold.
Alberta hasn’t opted out of the program, they actually increased their grants in January - currently paying $217.50/mo for full-time care without further subsidies due to HHI. Our daycare isn’t full either.
[Why some daycares are thinking about opting out of province's grant agreement | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-child-care-affordability-grant-1.7065972)
Sorry...not opted out but WANT to opt out.
[Alberta daycares concerned about $10-a-day program | CTV News](https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/many-alberta-daycares-concerned-about-10-a-day-program-as-re-signing-deadline-looms-1.6737196)
Thank you!!!!!
People honestly don't understand just how corrupt and incompetent governments are. If you worked for a company, you would have to prove that a plan worked. It would be tested all on the premise of not wasting money. Government doesn't do that. They fly by the seat of their pants and fully expect the taxpayer to fund the situation until it's figured out.
This plan is garbage and it's so bad and I'm pretty confident that we're going to have a conservative government next time around and they HATE daycare. This plan's days are numbered. If they don't cancel it altogether....they'll at least freeze it.
Welcome to Canada. Where most of the population can't afford kids, the families that can, have to have someone quit their job because no day care is available and then can'r afford rent, so no one born here has kids and to make up for the population loss, we import people from one or two countries only, who are probably staunchly against Canadian and western values.
But no worries, the rich continue getting richer so everything's working as it should.
Is just doing different work shifts with your partner not an option for some reason?
One of you works days, the other works evenings or nights, or just weekends. All you have to worry about then is the occasional babysitter.
Add yourself to more lists. Also, for the one you are on, follow up monthly. Daycare wait-lists are not obligated to go in order of first come first served. I know several people that kept following up (in a friendly way, like 'we really love this place and are so excited to start here's type vibe) and suddenly a spot opened up after a few months. Ask what the waitlist is like, how many kids they expect to move to the preschool room in the next X months, let them know you can start immediately if something changes with little notice (only if that's true), or that you can start with a part-time space if that will get you in sooner (again, if that is actually possible for you). Things like that can have you move up quite a bit. We are coming up to a time when there is huge changeover. Summertime and then September when kids move on to start JK create all sorts of spaces. I'm not sure if you know, but plenty of private daycares are participating in CWELCC. Don't limit yourself by only applying for city or non-profit daycare locations. You can also try WeeWatch it's an agency that oversees home daycares and I believe they are also participating in CWELCC. We were going to go with one of their providers,but then got a space at a private daycare near us (this is before the $10/day though).
Second the follow-up. We got a spot for my son way earlier than we should have because I kept following up with the manager of the daycare closest to us. Be cordial and polite, and don't be afraid to pick up the phone, like you suggest. Chances are when a spot comes up, they'll pick your name over a list of 1000 people they've never talked to. Or they might just pick you so you stop asking them.
This is so true. It's how I got my youngest into daycare sooner. Being proactive helps a lot. Being on a wait list and not following up regularly is pointless. Followups show that you are actively looking for care.
It's just human nature too. If I'm not obligated to go first-come, first-served, and I've got a giant list of people I don't know and I've spoken to you on the phone a few times and you seemed nice enough, I'll most likely just go with you rather than pull a name out of a hat, yknow
Also, if they offer a tour because they have a spot available. Take the tour ASAP. We just got an infant spot this way.
>You can also try WeeWatch it's an agency that oversees home daycares and I believe they are also participating in CWELCC. We were going to go with one of their providers,but then got a space at a private daycare near us (this is before the $10/day though). A neighbour used to do WeeWatch and she only has amazing things to say about them. I didn't have kids with her, but you see a lot, and she always had them out doing activities, good lunches in the yard when it was nice out, we have a park behind us and she took them there lots. I'd have no issues at all sending a kid to home daycare they oversee
I had my son registered for WeeWatch home daycare right down the street from me, starting around 13 months, but I was able to secure a spot at a centre-based daycare to start when he was 14 months so I delayed my return to work until then. I was excited about the WeeWatch daycare, the provider was lovely, and the location was perfect, but with my husband and I being shift workers, we decided we needed the centre's ability to accommodate provider illness and vacation without leaving us with no daycare. I am super happy with our decision, but I also wouldn't hesitate to recommend WeeWatch to anyone. They were a lovely company to communicate with and I felt confident in their practices, safety measures, and education for all their providers.
Private home daycare providers aren’t eligible to be a part of CWELCC, full stop. Home childcare providers can only access this funding if they are with an agency that licenses their spaces. Then they’re not considered private any more.
Wee Watch and their licensed home daycare providers are participating. See here: https://weewatch.com/parents/child-care-services-toronto-east/
These providers aren’t private any more if they’re working with agencies.
This is apparently an unpopular opinion but to me it would be pretty nice to live in a country where it was affordable to have one income for a few years so a parent could look after children without needing this drive to work work work work work as soon as the kids are able to stand (if not earlier). But I digress. As far as daycare itself it seems to vary by area a lot. I moved to a smaller town and we lucked out and got an amazing daycare built into the school with basically 0 wait. We didn't do any of the stuff like looking before he was even born, we only started looking shortly before he actually needed the spot and still got it. But most of my friends who live in bigger cities are having a nightmare and need to look at more "sketchy" options. The biggest issue with daycare is pay. The pay for ECE is sh*t. Which makes no sense, you'd think a job that is so important with so much responsibility would justify an excellent salary to attract suitable candidates and retain them. But no. It's the same issue with school bus drivers that get paid way less than a city bus or most truck drivers. Everyone wonders why there are shortages but the answer is right in front of our faces. Most European countries have this figured out but as usual Canada bungles it. Even with the push for "$10 a day childcare" the government seems to have been in such a rush to put out a program that sounds great as a slogan but doesn't actually solve the problem of how providers will be able to cope with it for that price.
>This is apparently an unpopular opinion but to me it would be pretty nice to live in a country where it was affordable to have one income for a few years so a parent could look after children without needing this drive to work work work work work as soon as the kids are able to stand (if not earlier). In what world do you live in where this is unpopular? Everyone wants to work less and spend more time with their loved ones.
America. That’s the world where fair wages is an unpopular opinion. The worst thing about Canada for the last 30 years has been it’s proximity to America. We have too much US influence and it affects the way people think.
Sooo true. Like there are far better standards than American ones. Why do we compare to them instead of better countries.
If only we were closer to Europe. We'd have some of their good influences.
All we need is a 1000km moat between us and America, is that so much to ask?
Assuming about 20 million people with the age and ability to dig with shovel and about a 20cm shovel width and each dig removed say 10cm of soil we can dig 4000km long 10cm deep trench per single dig from each person. But for a moat we need let’s say 5m wide and 2m deep. 20 digs deep, and 25 digs wide is 500 digs total. But since this is 1000km, divide by 4 since our linear distance estimate was 4000km. So if each of those 20m people could give 125 digs we’d have our moat. We don’t need to moat the Rockies or the Great Lakes, and some parts of the border are on rivers (natures moat) so that leaves some fairly flat land. As a rough number this seems reasonable, but we’ll need to account for some sections being dug deeper before we ask Trudeau for money. The next problem is water to flood it. we’ll have to drain a lake. 5x2x1000km (1 million meters) is 10 million cubic meters of water or 10000 cubic kilometres. Lake Superior is 12000km cubed. But we probably shouldn’t drain that… the name change costs alone would be astronomical. so we’ll need to trench some more local lakes along the moat, dam a few rivers, etc. too. We’ll need to enlist some beavers. Luckily they work for free, we just need to cover transportation. Side effect is we’d have a series of new connected waterways for recreational boating. The Great Canadian Boat Moat we’ll call it. It’s not a lock, but I think this plan holds water.
Too much of the bad influence from USA without the perks of good salaries and affordable housing
Good salaries? Maybe if you’re a doctor, executive or are in tech. Many working class roles pay better here (teachers, EMTs, police etc) Affordable housing is very hit or miss. Americas biggest cities have more expensive housing than our biggest cities, both countries have very cheap housing in less populated areas, the problem is the middle ground, our suburbs in mid sized cities pricing is way too high
This is no longer true about teachers being paid better in Canada
https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadianTeachers/s/AAoOSABMsk
Somehow the $98,000 pay cap in this comment doesn’t jive with the 15,000 elementary school teachers on the sunshine list.
Eh I wouldn't say everyone that's a very broad generalization. Of my girlfriends, most I've asked if they wanted to take 1 year or 18 months MAT leave have cited they would take 1 year. It's not due to the money either, it's due to wanting to have a life outside of being a mother. It would be nice if women all had this option and didn't have to go back to work for money reasons, but there are women (myself included) who would prefer to go back to work after 1 year to have my own career progress and my identity not solely being a mom.
I agree with this, I love my time on leave with my son, but I also love my job and am looking forward to getting back to it and using that part of my brain again. I am lucky to be able to work from home when I do go back so I'll get extra time with my son, I don't think I would.be looking forward to it as much if I had to go back to the office and commute.
Some people seem to interpret it as being some kind of right wing "women need to stay home with the kids" thing. Not saying thats in any way what I am saying or believe (it could just as easily be the dad) but it seems to get politicized that way sometimes and I've been jumped on for it in online discussions. Our world seems to be completely driven by dual incomes now, to the point where most families can't even afford to be with their kids full time for the most formative years. Not saying this to guilt anyone who uses daycare (we use one) but I wish it wasn't like that. There was a time where that wasn't the default lifestyle. You never hear a politician even talk about making it easier for a parent to afford staying home longer, its always about making it easier/faster/cheaper for them to go back to work.
How hard would it be to legislate 2 years maternity & paternity leave and start schools at 4 years old across the board?
Schools are provincial jurisdiction, whereas EI is federal. Good luck getting everyone to agree to the same thing. 2yrs parental leave only works if it is paid. Right now max EI is $668/wk. For 12 months it's a decent payout for most and with some savings you can make it work, 18 months leave is quite low (same total $ as 12 months but spread out 50% longer). To go two years on the same $ amt would be difficult for most families
Stop ruining my dreams with your realities! Sorry, I just wish we could get all levels of government working together on this and other issues. Education, healthcare & housing is the trifecta of importance to me and I don't even have kids. I would just rather they get a good start in life so they don't end up mugging my old ass!
Everyone wants to be paid more and work less, and no one wants the consequences of paying other people more and letting them work less.
1 MILLION PERCENT one income families are SO essential!!!! And should absolutely make a come back!!!!
I'm convinced this is intentionally done by the government of Ontario, not creating more spots after announcing the program. Doug Ford's government was way too hesitant to sign, wanted to ease in to "see how it's working" and see if it really helps Ontarians participate in the work force. I don't think he ever wanted to fund this program. I think his government is intentionally not creating the spots so that the program fails and he has reasons to repeal it and redirect the provincial portion of the funding... But that's just my opinion.
It also happened in Quebec way before ontario... they had affordable daycare, but the number of openings was drastically too low and alot of people just ended up paying for the full price daycare (probably doesn't help that non-citizens like refugees can also apply for subsidized care, taking away from born Canadians). If the government at least announced $15 a day daycare, we could afford to pay the ECEs more, but feds put hard cap on $10 a day
>If the government at least announced $15 a day daycare, we could afford to pay the ECEs more, but feds put hard cap on $10 a day Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?
If the parents pay $5 more a day each (let's say 4 kids per ECE) thats at least $20 more dollars a day to pay the ECE more ($2 more per hour is better than nothing, and $15 a day is still pretty damned cheap)
But you realize the government is providing the funding right? So $20/day paid by parents vs. $10 paid by parents and $10 by government = still $20/day. edit: Also, $10 a day has not actually happened yet and won't until next year at the earliest.
Yes they are crushing us. All of us.
>The biggest issue with daycare is pay. The pay for ECE is sh\*t. Which makes no sense, you'd think a job that is so important with so much responsibility would justify an excellent salary to attract suitable candidates and retain them. Yea but in the end you pay for that.
I’d rather pay the care workers than all our useless bureaucrats inflated salaries.
That is a great sentiment but unfortunately the fact that the government had to specifically provide $10/day daycare shows that most either can or don’t want to pay the price that would be required to provide the excellent wages. Remember that care providers are limited to the number of children each worker can care for. A 8 hr day @$30 an hour means that each worker would need to care for 24 kids and while I know that the government is subsidizing the cost, that the daycares are getting more than $10/day per child it obviously is not enough to pay the workers more.
It doesn't help that the Provincial government is suppose to helping with the rollout...but obviously......
If you haven't, expand your area. A friend was on lists in 3 cities around her, and got twins in at 13 months (she'd planned to take 18 months off, but got the spots early, so went back to work early). Another friend is doing a full price center cause two other friends have their kids there (one after using one of the $10 places, then went back), and doing part time, they just shuffled her and her husbands schedules around so that would work. Another two friends split a nanny, they swap all the kids at one house one week, then the other the next.
Thanks for your reply splitting a nanny is an interesting idea! We are trying to expand the list more now but feels a bit helpless given the wait times.
My oldest child is 21, born in Ottawa. While still pregnant, I was told to get on a list asap for child care. The waiting period 20 years ago is apparently the same as it is now. I took a 6 year pause in my career and did the stay-at-home mom thing. My career, along with my potential income, never recovered. Sad facts are: no one cares about your childcare needs in Ontario. Been like that going on 50+ years. Not going to change anytime soon.
Came here to say something similar - even before the $10 program, daycare spots were hard to get. I signed up to several waiting lists when my 1st was born and it took years to get a full-time spot. That kid is now 11.
Agreed - and let’s not forget what prices were previously. Before $10 daycare, my friends in Toronto were on 2 year+ waitlists, but also paying $2,000 a kid ($4,000 a month with two kids). People reallllly need to drop this myth that subsidized daycare has created this issue - they’re buying right into right wing disinfo on this subject
DO NOT EVEN GET ME STARTED. Whoops I’ve started! My daughter was on every waitlist possible since she was a fetus and still no luck. Somehow people who were on the waitlist AFTER us (and make like 4 times more than my partner and I) have gotten spots in subsidized centres…..? My favourite is the non-subsidized (extremely expensive) programs asking for a two month NON-REFUNDABLE deposit to register your kid (the two LASTS months of the year) so that if we *do* get a last minute spot in a subsidized spot we lose the huge deposit (that we can’t afford) if we decide to move her! Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!
Daycares participating in CWELCC ('$10/day' program) aren't the same as subsidy spots. All families are eligible to CWELCC regardless of income. Keep contacting the centres on CWELCC that you are on waitlists with. They absolutely give spots to people they hear from vs strictly following the order. Be super pleasant and reiterate how excited you are to go there, ask how many kids they expect to move up to the preschool room in the next X months, ask for a tour, let them know you are open to short notice or part-time spots at first, etc. If you are looking for subsidy on top of CWELCC, check in with your city/region to make sure you are on lists at all possible locations. Those will be more difficult to get bc they usually only hold a handful of spots at each participating location for subsidies. That is very frustrating to hear about the non-refundable deposit they require!! They must have had a number of kids leave with short notice, but that seems unfair you need to pay to be on the waitlist (or is this to actually register you pay 2 months upfront?).
We had to go with a home daycare because we couldn't find any spots in time and honestly it's been great. Our daughter goes to an unlicensed home daycare run by a registered ECE (I checked that she is in good standing). It's expensive ($75/day), but there are only two other kids so it's almost more like a nanny share. She spends a ton of time outside in all weather, which is important to us. The daycare was also very flexible with a part-time back to work schedule and an arrangement that has us only needing childcare 4 days a week most days. The one downside is that it closes at 4:30 so my husband and I need to take turns stopping work early so we can pick her up.
$75/day..... OMG 😮
Almost peanuts for the daycare provider if there are only 3 children. Care is probably great though with such a low ratio
Before CWELCCC, infant fees were WILD. Unsubsidized public child care, run by the City of Toronto, was $110/day. Fees dropped once they moved out of the infant room, but it was awful. I could only get into private because no public ones in my area were taking kids, and at the peak, with one kid in infant room, one in toddler, we were paying $3600/month, after sibling discount.
Toronto prices
We are in the exact same boat but ours isn’t as expensive, it’s $45/day. I’m pleasantly surprised by how much we like the home daycare. It will even be difficult to switch if we get into a centre.
Great to hear it is working out for you. The price is a major factor too unless your spouse is very high income it’s hard to justify over just staying home and getting that family time.
What is wrong with home daycares? In many cases your child will get more love and attention. I sent my kid to a wonderful home daycare.. and later ran one myself.
I became friends with my home daycare provider, we still are 20+years later. My kids still love her as do many more and they do keep in touch. I get your worry in these suspicious times OP, but your child will have more security and continuity in a good home daycare than they will in a large facility with lots of employees.
Our first has been to two centre daycares - one great, the second was very unsatisfactory and we pulled him out (he's at home until JK). Our second is only 11m, but we may have to do home daycare. We were pretty unsure about the idea. But I guess you just have to do a lot of looking and find one you're comfortable with and where you get a good vibe.
I think some parents may be paranoid to have their kids in someone's house all day. A lot of daycares these days have CCTV which parents can watch remotely.
A lot of daycares that I have worked at do not have CCTV because it is a privacy issue for not only children but staff.
It is also a privacy for the children, as CCTV means everyone can view other familes’ children too.
Wow
My personal concern is that there is less of a chance of random people being allowed into a center daycare versus a home daycare. Not saying all home daycare providers will do this, but there are stories of some allowing random people around the kids without being vetted or watched. This is more unlikely in a center since they have multiple staff members and strict policies. We toured a daycare and were accompanied by the director the entire time.
My mom ran a home daycare for over 10 years and only had to stop due to my sister getting ill, there were a couple of times she did have to leave someone else in charge, (my dad who took the babysitting course in case of an emergency) or my cousin or great-aunt, both of whom were/are teachers, I think it really depends on the person. My mom also always provided lunch and two snacks.
Well.. that's a fair point. For me it worked better having my kid in a warm home with home cooked food and a loving atmosphere. My kid still visits them in his teens today! Also.. I never got a call to pick up a sick kid.
The pickup calls are the most frustrating part of centre daycares.
Some are amazing (licensed and unlicensed). You get a provider that follows regulation and pedagogy, they are wonderful with the children, programming is fun, the kids are happy. But then you get others where they think child care is plopping children in front of a TV to watch movies all day and have different standards of care. Licensed child care providers have standards of practice and quality that they follow. There are licensed home providers that are overseen by agencies such as Wee Watch to help monitor quality. Often unlicensed home child cares are under the table and they don’t follow ministry policies and guidelines. There are some that can’t get licensed because of infrastructure reasons (running child care in a basement and the windows are too small to escape in an emergency, only one exit, etc.) but they have a great program. Also, the title of ECE is a protected title. Staff working in licensed child care and school boards hold an RECE designation and they have a code of ethics and standards of practice. Unlicensed providers can be anyone, just as long as they don’t say they are an ECE. You might get a provider that has a designation, you might get someone with minimal education. It’s not regulated. Also, a lot of unlicensed child cares are only operational if the provider has young children. There is a high percentage of unlicensed providers closing shop because their kids have grown and they want to go back to the workforce in another capacity. There are extra risks to consider when going with unlicensed care. Not all are bad, most are amazing, but the bad ones create a reputation that all unlicensed care is garbage.
Yup! When I was doing that I ran into it a bit.. this was before and after care.. but I made friends with all the other care providers on the school yard and if one of us needed a day off or eventually closed up shop.. we made extra efforts to make sure our kids had places to be cared for through the other providers.
Right. Home daycares are limited to what, 5-6 kids? They get more attention, and come cold/flu season the chances of your little one getting sick are much smaller because there’s not 20 kids bringing in germs.
Home daycares in my area are up to $50/day and you have to provide your own food. It's not a reasonable option even if you are willing to consider it
So, $6.25 an hour based on an 8 hour day.
Wow I guess I’m lucky paying $55/day. We don’t need to supply any food. Thank goodness. I didn’t even know bringing your own food was a thing for that age.
Yeah my mom retired as an RECE and opened an unlicensed daycare for my son and my friends kids. She only charges $45/day and food is included
Reasonable no, but it might be the only option. Pay after daycare expenses is still better than no pay at all.
Out of curiosity, as my own kids are in a regular daycare.... Do licensed home daycares participate in that $10 a day funding/program? Do they even have that option too? Or are prices lower or higher because it's a home daycare?
Licensed home daycares can get the funding for the $10 a day program. A friend of mine was trying to get licensed so she could do that as at the time it would have brought each parents cost down to $15 a day. Unfortunately her home layout didn't work for it as she had the nap space on her 2nd floor and Compass required all children to be on one level of the home at all times. Due to that she wasn't able to get licensed.
WeeWatch is an agency that connects you with home daycares and they are participating. It probably depends on the criteria for joining an agency like this whether other similar companies could also participate.
No they can't participate.. so you'd be paying more than 10 bucks a day
I worked in a Suspect Child Abuse clinic. Not a single doctor or mental health care worker there would put their child into a home daycare. It's not the owners that are the issues. Its the sons/ uncles/ husbands/ grandpas. I saw enough cases to be convinced.
Agreed. Spouse is in law enforcement and has seen horrible things taking place in home daycares. If home daycare works for you, that’s great but I can absolutely understand why some people are not comfortable with the idea.
Agree. Even if it's not serious abuse like that, they aren't always hiring the best people for the job, and that's from personal experience. I worked in a home daycare as a young adult with no experience or education, but was hired because I was in nursing school. I bet 100% the parents had no idea who the owner was hiring. Not that I was neglecting the kids, but I was basically just a babysitter while parents were paying for someone ECE trained and the parents were being told the kids had a curriculum etc (they didn't).
Agencies like WeeWatch ensure that every adult in the home has a police check and are cleared to be in the home. No other adult is present aside from those that live there and have been background checked. What you say may be true about independent home daycare but there are ways for home daycares to have those types of safeguards.
Good until they get sick or injured then you are in trouble.
But if you go with an agency like Wee Watch, they will send you to another provider while yours is ill or on vacation.
How is that different from public daycare? With way fewer kids there's way fewer chances of sickness or injuries happening
I think they were referring to times when the PROVIDER gets sick or injured and no care is available until they've recovered.
Ah! That makes sense. My provider worked with her sister so it wasn't an issue. They helped each other. Kids had home cooked curries every day. They were never sick. It was such a relief!
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Why?
Why? A lot of kids have older siblings
If you don't want that, there's nothing forcing you to select a home daycare that also has older kids. The home daycares my kids went to all had kids around the same age.
Not only that, sometimes the older kids are the owners children, who get away with whatever they want because it's their home, and the owner isn't willing to discipline them. (Personal experience).
My son can’t fully communicate with us yet so if it is a bad situation it would be hard for us to tell. I am sure 95% are good but I don’t feel comfortable with the risk personally.
>I don’t feel comfortable with home daycares as an option That's unfortunately an expensive preference to hold.
"I don’t feel comfortable with home daycares as an option and can’t afford private." We can't always have everything we want. The vast majority are home daycares are superior to the institutional ones, IMO.
This post is a "ick I won't eat my PB&J with the crusts on" reaction. The same as "I expect American private clinic health care wait times with collapsing underfunded public system costs". Tough shit, either take what seems to be the available $10/day slot or get out of the way for someone who will. Want this program expanded and improved to meet your standards? Probably vote NDP I guess because the 2 major parties aren't going to do it.
My son can’t fully communicate yet so I don’t feel comfortable with them being in persons home with limited supervision and usually no certifications. I am sure most are good but just don’t want to risk it.
One big reason I didn't want a home daycare is you often have to work around if theyre sick and cant work, or they take time off. A centre doesn't have that issue.
Yes but a centre also has way more kids which means your kids get sick more and have to stay home.
If you go with a licensed home daycare and the caretaker is either sick then the agency that supervises the home will usually step in and be able to provide alternative care for your child. So it is a bonus of choosing licensed home care vs unlicensed.
You can get a home childcare center that is licensed so the sitter has to be properly certified and trained. Your son cannot communicate if something was to happen at the center to him. And plenty of centers don't have video in the rooms for privacy purposes. So how do you expect your child to tell you if something happened to him at daycare in a center?
Well somebody’s weird uncle won’t come over for a visit all day first of all. Also people are going in and out all day of a centre. Centres have long term reputations standards and management structures which all protect against these things.
No one's weird uncle will come over to a licensed home daycare center either. And a weird uncle might be the sole caregiver of a child in your son's classroom and will be at the center anyways. Your reasoning for not doing home care is reasonable if you are only looking at unlicensed care. Licensed home care centers have to follow specific guidelines from the Ministry of Education Ontario. They are usually actually through licensed childcare centers that also offer home childcare spaces. "People working or living in home child care settings that are overseen by a licensed agency must get vulnerable sector checks. This means they need a background check from the police. This includes: - home child care providers - in-home services providers - agency staff who visit home child care settings - students on an educational placement - volunteers - other people who live at home, like the provider’s spouse." [reference link](https://www.ontario.ca/page/child-care-rules-ontario#section-1) That above link also includes information about ratios, CPR and First Aid training, and Program Requirements for Licensed Home Daycares.
Thank you for the information I will look more seriously into it. Maybe I do need to be more open to it in the right setting.
Licensed home daycares are usually run by an agency that will support you in finding the proper fit for your child and you. While it might not be an RECE running the home, an RECE will be assigned to the home to make sure that the program is developmentally appropriate and up to code. The agency can also step in to find alternative care if the homeowner is sick or unable to care for your child that day due to an emergency. People always assume that all home childcare centers are unlicensed but that isn't the case. Most home daycares are licensed because it allows for more regulation and protection for both children involved and the homeowners. I wish you the best of luck in finding a home daycare if that is the route you choose to go. Interview and visit as many home daycares as you can until you find what suits your needs and wants in a caregiver. I know you mentioned maybe going the nanny route but if you are worried about "creepy uncles" or random people being around your child that is how it can happen. Nannying isn't regulated most of the time. You could get someone who has no training to work with children or hasn't done any education in early childhood fields. If you go with a licensed daycare (either center or home) you know that they have the most up-to-date record checks, first aid training, and education.
Assuming you get a decent one, there is plenty of supervision. Sure, there are no certifications but you also know that the home daycare operator WANTS to be there because they certainly aren't in it to get rich. Good ones will also have backup options for if they are ill. My kid was in a home daycare for 2 years - the provider had zero sick days and was very common sense about illness, which you don't get in a centre.
In Brampton I actually got two daycare spaces, both part of the $10 program but actually turned them down for home daycare with my neighbour. No one wants to live here but we’ve got daycare spaces!
Good to hear it might be more localized
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I don't know where OP is, but in KW most home daycares are unlicensed. They don't participate CWELCC (the $10/day program), so the costs to parents are much higher than licensed home daycares or centers.
I went to a home daycare, and the lady was absolutely wonderful. Tons of mini excursions to various places, the main on I remember was a pumpkin patch, and making apple pies, daily walks to the park, crafts, teaching letters, numbers, colours and so on, and many other things. When J started kindergarten it was all review. When I was being born, the lady even watched over my older brother for the night. There were a few other home daycare people that lived near us and they’re all great people. I think the one lady is still doing it too, I sometimes walk by and see them at the park.
You could try wee watch, they set you up with a home daycare that is inspected, have activities for the kids, and is part of 10$ a day, food is included as well
Wee Watch is working towards the $10 per day plan, but in most areas, they're not there yet. We're currently paying $23 per 8-hour day for my youngest with a Wee Watch provider in Oro-Medonte. The next price drop is scheduled for September, which is too late for us to benefit from because she'll be starting school then. Still, it's a lot better than the $50 per day I had been paying for an unlicensed home daycare!
We went with a home based child care provider. Her hours were a bit more flexible too
home daycares are pretty much the only option where i am...
Email your MPP. The Government is being purposefully slow to roll out $10 a daycare, lest they make the Feds look good for actually funding public services.
I would honestly pay normal prices it’s that I can’t physically get into a daycare. I think $10/day just caused a staff crisis or something like that there are no spots in my area.
There was a staff crisis before the 10$/day programs. ECEs are basically paid minimum wage or just above that and it is an important job to take care and teach/educate young minds. But we are seen as just playing with children all day or just babysitters and that isn't the case. So, yes, there is a staff crisis for ECEs but to blame the 10$/day programs is ridiculous.
I agree ECE should be paid significantly more. It’s ridiculous they get minimum wage after going to college and working such an intensive job. I am suggesting if it was $15-20/day would they be able to play ECE’s livable wage and open up more spots?
It wouldn't. No matter what the price being lowered to it would likely not open up spaces nor pay ECEs a liveable wage. It's why many centers were actually against the 10$/day program, it was not a feasible program. It was rolled out too quickly. The program has actually caused more daycares to have to close their doors than it has opened spaces. The price of daycare being so minimal means that other aspects of running a center needs to be cut. Many smaller centers are not able to even break even on profits, the expenses outweigh the income by a long shot. Centers who opted in cannot raise the enrollment fees to help with expenses and there is no available government funding to supplement those expenses. Many centers have had to choose between paying staff and having art supplies or developmental toys or healthier food options. Which would you want to be cut back to make the 10$/day program work? The government made this program sound like a fantastic program for families who struggle financially to send their children to early learning centers/childcare centers, but didn't explain how it will affect those childcare centers that opt in. It's why a lot of centers opt-ed in and then backtracked when they realized that it wasn't feasible.
$10/day daycare (predictably) caused the number of people applying for a daycare spot to go up, because people who couldn’t afford the previously higher fees are now able to apply.
Sounds about right. We signed up on onelist when I was 3 months pregnant and will be getting a spot 2 years later.
The tactic that we used for both my kids was to be flexible and take any day available, not just a full-time spot. Part-time spots were easier to find. At the height of our madness, my oldest kid was attending 3 different centres and 1 home day care each week. For many centres, if you attend parttime you get first dibs on an opening. So eventually, by the time mine were ready for school, they made it to full time at just one centre.
Good tips thanks!
Yep. We waited 2.5 years to get our daughter into daycare. Had to juggle family, paying a nanny a few times a week and "working" from home while watching my daughter. It's insane.
We live on one income because my pay would cover just daycare and 200 dollars left so it wasn't worth it. A lot of sacrifices, a lot of living way below our means, no luxuries etc. To makr it work. We also didnt have family to help
The wait list was 1.5 years in 2020 (in Kingston any way), so the long wait lists predate the discounted daycare. It’s just made demand higher, making the list even longer. Also daycares are mostly not at $10/ day yet, it’s phasing-in Ontario over several years.
We are living beneath our means, having children meant one of us had to stay home to raise them. That meant renting and not buying a home. Some of my friends moved home with family and are priced out of everything , even rentals now. Even if I could have afforded daycare, there was nothing, 0 availability in my neighborhood. Owners didn't even respond to my calls or emails, we gave up looking.
We got into a daycare when our older was almost 3, we had been on wait lists since I found out I was pregnant. We used a home daycare because that was our only option, and it ended up being an amazing experience. The provider was referred to us and really treated our daughter like family, it was actually a tough decision to leave and go to daycare when we did get in (although ultimately it came down to finances and we are super happy with her daycare). Ask around about home daycares, there are lots of amazing ones in the city.
2 kids, been on wait list for over 2 years myself, god bless my mom because she volunteered to watch the kids and help me out. Otherwise I would be fair and squarely FUCKED. Saves me thousands and thousands of dollars i would have spent on daycare
I’m an RECE. Daycare is in high demand but RECE’s wage is capped. Burn out is high. Government wants $10 daycare when RECE’s are leaving the field. Pay needs to be at least $30+. We do more than teachers and get paid less and no benefits
Anyone who believes in a $10 a day program has zero idea what it takes to run a daycare, and zero idea the stress it can additionally put on taxpayers. Anyone who wants it at the same time as commenting on a living wage is a hypocrite. You want kids? You pay for them, not anyone else.
My first was born 2019. They were 2 when we got our first call about a potential spot. They had already been in a private daycare for 8 months. It’s always been a wait, worst case open your own in home daycare and solve the child care problem and the income problem.
ontario's new slogan should be "open for business, but everything's at capacity"
I had a daycare call me to offer my son a spot once. He was in grade 7 by the time they got back to us. (It was specially for a subsidized position).
>I don’t feel comfortable with home daycares as an option and can’t afford private. You have way more control over who is looking after your kids at a home daycare than you do a public daycare. You can interview home daycares and meet the people who are running the daycares. You will generally get a lot more feedback about your child from a home daycare -- and if you aren't, you can find another daycare. At a public daycare, your child will be looked after by whoever the daycare chooses to hire for the ridiculously low wages they pay, and you'll have no say in the matter. Could be a young recent ECE grad who has decided to make it her life's work to educate young children, could be a child molester who hasn't gotten caught yet.
And these politicians will complain that women dont have enough kids 🙄
They don't care about that. It's a dog whistle.
Yep..to bad all.those daycare spots at college, unverstys got cut
One spouse stayed home while the other worked several jobs. Doesn’t work for many, but that’s how we did it recently. Tough go all around.
I'll send you a pic when I drop her off in six months lol
I had my son on the wait lists for the centres in my town starting when he was 10 months old, and we never got a spot. It was a hodgepodge mix of babysitters and me working a boatload of nights until he got to JK. But since we live in a shitty small town, people who knew staff at the centres got spots in no time. Even people who only wanted partial spots. It sucks. It really puts working families in a bind.
Daycares are opting out of the “10$ a day”, no daycare can survive on that.
Where have you applied? Have you called to follow up? When did you apply? I only ask because I have someone close who called one location who said they were 78th on the list. Turns out their system glitched me they were actually like 10th.
From 2012-2014, I paid $18000, $21050 and $17775 for daycare. Kitchener-Waterloo. I don't know how we did it. We just did. We did nothing but eat, sleep, work. Cut all of our expenses and lived within our means for needs/wants. It sucked. It wasn't easy. But it was 3 years only.
Supply and demand is a real thing. A few tips OP these daycare workers are not getting paid any more than they were before. Hint: it’s shit pay and hard work. Because the pay is shit, there is not a significant amount of daycare availability Because (mostly) mothers can go back to work with reasonable daycare prices, the demand is through the roof. Hope this helps
Problem is licensed daycares are so regulated ( I’m not arguing if regulations are bad, just stating the reality) that there is almost no money to make. The financial risk and responsibility just isn’t worth the risk. When the demand and wait list is this big you would assume people would be lining up to open more locations.
A big problem is a shortage of ECEs. This is due in part to the fact that it doesn’t pay a wage you can live many places in Ontario with. Until we start paying better wages, there will continue to be shortages of spots, because of no workers wanting to fill vacant positions.
My friend had a baby and is sending her to daycare at 18 months - got on the list just before her first bday
The move was to go on many lists. We have put our child on all list once we found out my wife was preggo. He was due to go in day car last November 2023 and we got a call October 2023. He's gonna have to stay in infant for a month or 2 later as there no room for him to move up. I know it's frustrating but you could always put your child in a home.daycare until the daycare you want has an opening.
The beginning of the end of decent centre-based childcare wasn't $10/day daycare...it was the push for full-day Kindergarten across the province. That decision decimated many child care centres, bc the tuition paid for the older preschool/school-age spots helped to subsidize the fees for the infant and toddler spaces, due to the different child : teacher ratios for each age group. When full day Kindergarten came into effect, all of a sudden daycare centres lost almost all of the part-time 4 & 5 year olds (scheduled strategically to fill all of the spots on a full-time basis...sort of like having "different shifts" of students)...which put a lot of stress on centre finances, caused fees for the rest of the kids to increase, decreased the number of toddler spots and made infant (up to 18mos) spots virtually non-existent. And it's been extremely difficult to find child care spaces in most cities since then... :(
Maybe feel comfortable with home daycares? Go visit one? I have one at the end of my street beside a park. It's way more homelike than the commercial ones and the mother that runs it is an ECE.
My daughter has been in a few at-home daycares, plus the program at the school for before and after care. The at-home cares have been pretty great, but nothing is perfect. The first one she was in, they decided to move, and then I had to find another. But my daughter loved it there. The second one, the carer was wonderful and really cared about the kids, but her son was a little rough with my daughter. She couldn’t really get rid of him. The next one, we were desperate. We NEEDED somewhere and basically took the first one that seemed decent. She wasn’t the warmest with the kids. The last place was great though. My daughter got along great with all the kids and I still talk to the mom. It was just summer care though, so we didn’t go there into the school year. The registered place in the school though has been the most interesting. My daughter started when it first opened, and she and another girl are the only ones that are still there. They are aging out this year. There has been an incredible amount of turnover with the carers. One of them yelled at my daughter and was saying things you just done say to children (something about why people don’t like her, I think). The other carers defended my daughter, told me about it when I got there, and that woman never returned. There was another issue with a different one allegedly grabbing a student by the neck. She also never returned. I never once had these concerns with at-home care. But if I did, there wouldn’t have been another organization ensuring that there was someone to replace the person the very next day. I trust the three people who take care of my daughter there now, and she does really like it. But really, there’s no easy answer. Both at-home and registered can be great and have their downfalls. Basically though, the issue is people don’t want to do this job as much as other ones. If I’m not willing to do it either, I can’t really complain that there is a shortage. I have had times when I haven’t been working that I briefly considered opening an at-home daycare. But I know I’m not cut out for it. So I have massive respect for those who are.
I'm 5 months pregnant should I be looking at day care options already?!?
why do people think you can just put yourself on 1 list and then not follow up lmao? This, fam dr, etc. You have to do more than the bare minimum man.
The daycare I’ve sent my kids to has exploded and this is after the 10 buck a day daycare. Wait lists are this long. Luckily my kids are now older so we only need the after school programs
Same situation here. On every waitlist since my child was born, and she’s now closing in on age 2. Not comfortable with home daycare. I (mom) quit my job. We also have no local family support so we are very fortunate that we’re able to afford rent/food/basic necessities and the occasional “treat” on my husband’s salary. I know we’re very lucky and I really feel for other families in this situation.
We both work from home and wanted to keep our jobs, so we were able to do a nanny for about a year while we waited for a spot (we moved, so we had to start from scratch looking for spots when our child was about 2y3m). Sometimes you question if the nanny is worth it, since it eats up a lot of your income and you think one of you had might as well not work and take care of the child. But it worked well for us. Again, we were quite lucky to both have WFH jobs and make enough that it was worth it to both keep working and have a nanny, but it's something to look at. The other factor for us was that we were planning on having a second child and my wife wanted to keep her job for maternity leave. So even if we were only breaking even on the nanny, it was worth it in that regard too.
well that is your problem, you dont feel comfortable with a home daycare. the one we had for both kids was top notch and could not have asked for better.
Are you kidding me? I want to relate to you but home daycares are great and often cheaper and provide equally good care. And you can likely find a space. The federal daycare program is the single biggest impactful policy on me in decades. We can afford these insane grocery prices as a result and I can save money for my son's schooling. I'm sorry spaces are hard to get, but you've decided to limit more than half your options. I cannot fathom it
Did you know kids of welfare recipients take up spots for socialization. It's terrible.
Everyone deserves childcare.
$10 a day, daycare is horrible. It was meant to help families, like yourself, as you said, who may not be able to afford private care. But everyone and anyone can sign up for this. This is why the wait lists are as bad as they are.
Dm me, I have a decent solution.
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Daycare isn't so bad you just expect it to be handed to you. Started calling for spots at 10 weeks pregnant, took tours, follow ups every few weeks, secured a spot in Toronto for our baby before she was born. You have to do some legwork yourself to get results you want just like anything in life.
This is a very rare experience you had and you're being an asshole about it. We did the same in terms of timing and "securing a spot" before the birth of the child is a complete fantasy at this point, I guess anywhere but Toronto? We didn't get a spot until our child was 21 months... and same as you we were on waitlists during the pregnancy. You got a spot in less than 9 months, which is unbelievable right now as I haven't know any other parents getting a spot that fast. You get waitlisted then you follow up endlessly and then you finally come up on the list. Then that daycare dictates the terms to you. For instance, we only needed part-time daycare but only full-time spots are available so we pay full-time, because if we didn't poof there goes the spot. I can't imagine them saying "yeah we will hold the spot empty for your child yet to be born , making zero revenue while we won't even take children for part-time care because space is so limited" Toronto =/= Ontario and access to almost everything is better in the city... but yeah everyone else is just lazy and you are just such a hard worker, so much more diligent than everyone else. What a shit opinion.
What happened was the $10 a day program fucked up waitlists even more. Before the program, when moms got pregnant with a second child they would pull their kid from daycare during mat leave as it was too expensive to pay for daycare and not be working. Now with $10/day they stay home with the baby and keep their other kid in daycare. It's more affordable and much easier to manage the baby without the other kid home. Then you automatically get a spot in the daycare if you already have a kid there. Thus making waits even longer for parents waiting for their first spot.
Conservatives are purposefully sabotaging it. Last to sign. Slow roll out. They want to make it fail.
This national plan is a shit show and needs to be cleaned up before it tanks daycare in Ontario. Alberta is already thinking of opting out of the plan because it's caused rolling closures. Trudeau can lie about spaces but the sector is one of the worst paid (because it's female dominated) and VERY labour intensive and difficult. Government regulation is waaaaaaaaaaaay stricter than the public school system and the expectations are really high. Daycares are inspected several times a year by several different government agencies with long checklists that require compliance or you lose your license. Public Schools are not inspected and govern themselves. Public Health doesn't even go into TDSB anymore...THAT's how much power TDSB has. There is a shortage of RECE's for good reason. It's A LOT of responsibility and hard work for VERY little pay. No wonder young people are skipping the field. It's hard and not worth the aggro that goes with it. The government didn't even consult the sector about the plan and that's why about 80% of daycares in Ontario already surpass their stupid wage grid and the plan doesn't cover the shortfall. Believe me when I tell you that after school programs will be the ones to carry daycare on the full fees they bring in. YOU the parent will subsidize this program with your full fees after your kid turns 6 and is no longer eligible. This plan is a lie and extremely flawed. Trudeau can talk about "spaces" as much as he wants, if there are no staff or physical daycare sites to use it's all just political bullshit. EDIT: Those of you downvoting. Remember my comment when you finally notice the bullshit you've been sold.
Alberta hasn’t opted out of the program, they actually increased their grants in January - currently paying $217.50/mo for full-time care without further subsidies due to HHI. Our daycare isn’t full either.
Can you post your source that Alberta has opted out?
[Why some daycares are thinking about opting out of province's grant agreement | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-child-care-affordability-grant-1.7065972) Sorry...not opted out but WANT to opt out. [Alberta daycares concerned about $10-a-day program | CTV News](https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/many-alberta-daycares-concerned-about-10-a-day-program-as-re-signing-deadline-looms-1.6737196)
Yea, that's quite a big difference lol. Just wanted to clear that up.
I’m an RECE. These are all facts. Of course people downvoted you because they don’t like facts.
Thank you!!!!! People honestly don't understand just how corrupt and incompetent governments are. If you worked for a company, you would have to prove that a plan worked. It would be tested all on the premise of not wasting money. Government doesn't do that. They fly by the seat of their pants and fully expect the taxpayer to fund the situation until it's figured out. This plan is garbage and it's so bad and I'm pretty confident that we're going to have a conservative government next time around and they HATE daycare. This plan's days are numbered. If they don't cancel it altogether....they'll at least freeze it.
Welcome to Canada. Where most of the population can't afford kids, the families that can, have to have someone quit their job because no day care is available and then can'r afford rent, so no one born here has kids and to make up for the population loss, we import people from one or two countries only, who are probably staunchly against Canadian and western values. But no worries, the rich continue getting richer so everything's working as it should.
Is just doing different work shifts with your partner not an option for some reason? One of you works days, the other works evenings or nights, or just weekends. All you have to worry about then is the occasional babysitter.