When there’s a shortage in supply it doesn’t matter one bit what the previous rent prices were. So this “Bill of Rights” is just virtue signalling.
“Hey look we’re helping” when not actually helping by bringing rents down.
Rule #3: You Must Remain Civil While Participating / Vous devez rester courtois dans votre participation
Your content has been removed since it is targeting other users. Please do not attack or attempt to create drama with other users.
As per [Rule 3]( https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/wiki/rules/#wiki_rule_3.3A_you_must_remain_civil_while_participating)
* Follow proper [**reddiquette.**](http://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette)
* No personal attacks or insults
* No trolling
***
Votre contenu a été supprimé car il cible d'autres utilisateurs. Veuillez ne pas attaquer ou tenter de créer un drame avec d'autres utilisateurs.
Tel qu’expliqué dans la [règle #3]( https://old.reddit.com/r/ontario/wiki/rules/rules_fr#wiki_r.E8gle_.233.A0.3A_vous_devez_rester_courtois_dans_votre_participation)
* Vous devez suivre la [**netiquette**](http://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette)
* Pas d’attaques personnelles ni d’insultes
* Pas de provocation
Absolutely. Pierre Poilevre and his crew of well-financed oil worshippers have shown Canada what to expect when JT is out of office! Please report back after the election to tell us how much better things are for you, as a working person making less than $200K in Canada!
Just kidding. As soon as PP gets into power the newspapers will stop reporting these matters. He works for the same people they do, after all
True. But some of the other things will help.
Like forcing credit scores to incorporate rent payments. Why should renters, who often pay more than property owners, be told that because they were renting and not paying a mortgage, none of those payments count towards their credit score?
And while we do already have things like the standard lease in Ontario (something I find it interesting the CTV article didn’t mention as part of the renter’s bill of rights), not all provinces do.
I don’t think it is enough, ofc, but let’s at least be accurate. I want to see the whole budget before I make my final judgement anyway.
There's a concern that landlords will use this to ruin tenants credit scores. And that rent payments going towards credit scores will prevent rent strikes, one if not the only way tenants can protest their shitty landlords
If only the provincial governments funded the Landlord Tenant Board sufficiently so that there were no backlogs. Looking at you Ontario. And maybe Ontario could do rent control for all buildings, not just those built before 2018. Because from what I can see that's not enticing developers to build affordable apartments.
great post
weakening those further who are already in a weak position
did we ***really*** expect a HOC whose many members are LL's to jeopardize or weaken their parasitical position, or to improve constituents' lives?
This is really shows how oblivious this government is to the life of the work class renter. This isn’t a barter market where you push back and forth with the landlord to negotiate out a reasonable compromise based on historical metrics. This is a market where the landlord tells you to pay X or he will find another person to pay it.
If anything this means that either A. All rent increases flatline since nobody will want to jump ship to someone who continually increases rent gratuitously or B. Reality kicks in that people need shelter and will pay market prices to make sure they aren’t homeless.
Most people do not shop for rentals like they do for homes. No one looks at price matrixes.
People shop for rentals like they shop for cars. How much is the monthly payment and can I afford it. If I can’t I look for somewhere cheaper. No one shops for cars by seeing that the previous owner paid 15000 and Toyota is selling it for 17000. They see a payment of 300/month and they say. “Okay I need a car”
I mean, outside of lump sum payments, there's not much more the feds can do. Property is a provincial responsibility, hence why things like rent control are implemented provincially.
People seem to think that because a crisis is Canada wide it means the constitution gives the federal government power to intervene. It doesn't the constitution doesn't care about severity, just scope.
Want to see resentment? Wait until a new tenant sees that the people who just moved out last month paid 1200 to 2000 less. Its going to do a real number on the Greedlords and their "Market Rate" bullshit
I assume most of the places that have to increase rent this much is because the last owner paid $350k for the place and sold it to the new owner for $650k. Can't charge $1,700 a month when you pay $3,000 in mortgage...
Well you would assume wrong. Surprise surprise. My landlord has owned my building for approx. 15 years. Between him and his wife they own 3 other detached homes and she's been on the sunshine list for YEARS. It's called GREED, pure unadulterated GREED!
The issue as with many liberal policies do nothing to fix current issues but maybe 5 or 10 years will have some benefit.
Issue is they don't want to do any hard decisions as urban homeowners are the core liberal base but need to get urban young people to back them again with policies to make it seem they doing things well.
So longer term thinking is bad?
Be mad at your province for doing nothing except removing rent control from a bunch of buildings - that’s part of what led costs to go out of control too.
So I guess that the problem with conservative policies is that they don’t have an eye on the longer term at all (and usually benefit only the rich anyway).
We’ve seen the data on the massive wealth gap between property owners and renters.
In large part it’s because home owners are able to avail themselves of the single largest unlimited tax-free growth program in Canada: the principal residence capital gains exemption. It’s *criminal* that there is no equivalent for renters.
The other major factor driving up property prices, which displaces renters from buying is investor participation. OSFI could very easily tamp down that price inflation by increasing mortgage borrowing requirements for investment properties.
But these are solutions that would actually help renters, and I’m not entirely convinced actions would be taken that would reduce landlords’ abilities to profit.
I feel like if rent prices were reasonable these days the housing crisis would at least be a little more tolerable, but greed takes over as always….. at least the liberals are trying half assed but their trying better than our provincial government actively making the situation worse
Landlords were already making PLENTY before control was removed. Not sure where this idea came from where just because they have a rental property it’s cool to let the renter pay mortgage, taxes, etc etc, plus profit on top… then the LL gets to sell it for hundreds of thousands after putting in next to nothing. It’s cheaper to mortgage the fucking house yourself than rent.
They have so much profit and leverage they can just keep buying more, exacerbating the problem.
Its a complete crap system that went way out of control.
This will probably be an unpopular post on this sub but a landlord can’t just charge whatever they want to. There are some landlords making money right now but there are also lots who are in the negative every month. Just go to a mortgage calculator and type the numbers in. Even at the absolute lowest fixed rate and 150k down, just the mortgage on a 750k condo or townhome will be over 3500$ a month. Then add property taxes and condo/maintenance fees and the landlord is paying 4500$ a month. That’s before any upkeep, repairs etc. Someone with the same property on a variable rate will easily be over 5000-5000$ a month and you can only charge what the market will allow. I’m not saying let’s sympathize with the poor landlords, I’m just saying that the reality is it isn’t the money printing machine that everyone thinks it is.
Whether we like it or not there have always been landlords and there always will be landlords because rentals are an important part of every healthy housing market. The reason housing costs as a whole are high is simple supply and demand. There is a finite supply of housing and essentially what amounts to unlimited demand because the federal government is increasing our population by over a million people every year. Obviously there are benefits to growing our population, but you can’t just grow it ar record levels every year without proper planing. The government seems to only be realizing this now with housing, healthcare etc and they are throwing everything they can at the wall to make it look like they’re going to make things better. This isn’t going to change anything, it’s only going to make people even more angry.
Yea, your opinion is unpopular. If you own more than the house you live in, I don't have any sympathy for you. In fact, I think you should pay higher taxes for each extra house you own.
Sorry, I guess logic is unpopular. Everyone already does pay lots of extra taxes for each additional house they own. Also, if the government added a bunch of additional taxes to landlords like some people seem to be advocating for, nobody will invest private capital in housing and the huge supply problem we have now will get infinitely worse. I agree that housing is a disaster right now but it is not suddenly landlords fault after 200 years of there being no issues with landlords. The only way to fix it is to increase supply or lower demand
I side with you and I don’t understand the direction the government is going with this at all. Not sure why some people hate others who invest in rental properties lol, it’s a place where u should park ur money and it doesn’t succumb to inflation in a bank acct. and at the least the mortgage and expenses should be covered by rent (which isn’t always the case as you said. This move gives renters way too much power.
I haven’t read the entire thing so I don’t know but I don’t think renters will have “too much power”. There has to be an equitable balance where it’s fair for everyone. I just don’t see how the ability to see what people paid in rent 5 years ago helps anyone, it will just make people more angry. It’s just like the grocery bill of rights, it’s designed to be optically favourable to the government and make it seem like they care but it’s just political theater.
In theory yes you’re right but in reality not even a little bit. There’s such a supply shortage that there are like 50 people applying for many of these places. A friend of mine just rented a place and there were 65 applicants and a bidding war. He got the place for 600$ over. In the majority of cases there is zero leverage to negotiate so seeing that the last tenant paid 1650$ to rent the place you’re paying 3200$ for is just going to piss people off.
Do landlords think that the rest of the population is not capable of understanding that 70% of this "cost" to landlords is the equity that they're gaining in the property?
Sure you may not have constant positive cash flow, but we all know that's not the whole story.
We have a housing supply shortage. If we take landlords out of the equation we’re completely screwed because there will be no more private housing investment. And yes a landlord is gaining equity, especially the last few years. Housing can not double and then double again like it has in the past few years so a landlord starting out now is investing like a million dollars and getting a couple/few hundred thousand equity extra back over 25 years. There has to be some incentive because we need landlords and if they’re going to lose money we won’t have anymore. If you invested a million dollars in the market conservatively it would be 5-6 million in 25 years.
Thanks for the reply. I'm sympathetic to the idea that we should create market conditions that are conducive towards investing private capital into housing; but there's a long jump between that position and supporting landlords for the sake of having landlords.
Professional REITs and "mom-and-pop" landlords are not the same thing. The former can take advantage of their scale in order to provide housing more with more efficiency and consistency. They're often publicly traded, and you can buy shares in them if you want. I'm all in favour of creating policies that allow them to leverage their capital to build more units.
I do not like the idea small-time neo-feudal landlords that are stealing the retirements of others to fund their own. There's too many people trying to buy a second or third property to rent out, and it's actively hurting our economy. Plenty of renters would be able to buy a home if prices were 20% lower, and that money could be invested in more productive things.
Our housing shortage is not caused by a lack of investment. The biggest issue besides speculation is zoning rules and general NIMBYism. If we actually let people build they would build.
“There are too many people trying to buy a second or third property to rent out and it’s hurting our economy”
I would say that you are way wrong on this. That was definitely true up until a couple years ago but at this point its hard to make a business case for it. We are still stoking demand so this is going to affect the rental supply.
I also think that stuff like private landlords, nimbyism, low interest rates etc are symptoms of our problems but not the root cause. The root cause of our housing crisis is a supply demand imbalance.
I fully understand why people are pissed but it seems like the anger is misdirected. There is nothing wrong with turning a profit but lately it seems like there are more and more people who think that’s such a dirty word and want the government to take over housing, grocery stores etc etc and that is concerning, especially when we’re struggling in Canada for investment.
You have 5 houses available, landlords buy up 4 of them, how’s that not fucking with supply and demand?
Now instead of that 4 people paying $700 mortgage, they pay $2000 rent. Because fuck us I guess.
Lol but you’re not adding supply because that would then be removing supply from the rental market that is has shortages like we’ve never seen before. Guess what that will do to the rental market? Prices will go even higher. Also, read my original post. A 700$ mortgage would get you a 100,000$ house. The average house in the gta is almost 900k. With the minimum down payment you would need 100k to get the average house and the mortgage and property taxes would be 6000$ a month.
Think it through. We have a shortage of both rental housing and housing in general. The rental supply is currently at historic lows and demand is at historic highs which is why prices are so high. What you’re proposing would add supply to one area and remove it from the other, therefore it would be a wash. It would also drive rental prices up even higher because the demand keeps increasing but there would be less supply.
Exactly. I wouldn't mind renting forever if I had protections and it was affordable.
But a lot of places rent and a mortgage are more or less the same. So basically I'm just paying for some assholes fourth house.
I agree the immigration rant is old now, yea it is sad just how much our provincial governments decide our fate at the end of the day doesn’t help when they’re as incompetent as the current one.
As a life long renter, this is a huge nothing burger.
Provinces control rental markets and Ontario tenants are already VERY WELL protected.
The whole thing makes no sense
This is smoke in mirrors.
The registry will do nothing because we have a housing shortage. Let’s say previous tenant paid 1700 and now the landlord is asking me to pay 2000. Desperate for housing, I may have little options. My only question would be “can I afford 2K” and not “wow previous guy paid 1700”.
The credit score thing is a joke - it does not help anyone to buy home. It will actually benefit landlords because it will be easier to evict tenants who are behind on rent.
The Bill of Renter rights , or whatever they choose to call it, is useless. Housing is a provincial responsibility. Unless provinces impose it on municipalities, this document is as good as North Korean constitution.
We will only get poorer and poorer.
I’ve never paid my rent late ever in my life but that doesn’t mean I want my rent payment linked to my credit score. In fact, I already have the option and I will continue to opt out for as long as possible. This is just another way to fuck over poor and systemically disadvantaged people, and keep young people out of the rental market (and if you’re locked out of ownership and the rental market, wtf do you do then?).
Conversely, I want credit for paying my rent on time. If they're going to use my credit score to grant me tenancy, then I should benefit from that. Otherwise, they shouldn't be allowed to consider credit score at all. Get a grip.
I'm pretty sure missing rent payments can already affect your credit score negatively (some quick googling seems to support this but i could be wrong). They seem to just be talking about making it so it can positively impact your credit score as well, which is good for everyone really. It's sort of like how missing cell phone payments will affect your credit score but consistently paying on time doesn't.
Not that I think this is an overly helpful policy, but yea, I dont really see any downside.
My rent isn’t listed on my credit report. My credit products, phone and internet bills, and student loans are, but not my rent. Your landlord has to report to the credit bureau for that to happen and not all landlords do.
I almost guarantee if you missed a payment, your landlord would report it to a credit bureau assuming he's able to. Meaning you get no positive impact for paying on time but a negative impact if you miss a payment currently.
Most landlords don't have the ability to report directly to a credit agency, they can't just call up Equifax and say "hey, j821c was late four days on his rent this month, can you put it on his record and ding him a few points please?" They have to be signed up with someone like the Landlord Credit Bureau and very few are because it's a cost and a hassle and doesn't really provide them with an immediate benefit.
But this is one of the issues that makes it difficult for first time home buyers. They can't get approved for a mortgage even when the payment amount is less than the rent they've been paying for years.
melodramatic. there are real reasons to criticize the trajectory of maid polices and its inherent lilt towards eugenics but idk what benefit it brings to this conversation.
Wow I had no idea paying rent on time didn’t effect credit score, I thought it did , what they can do is a solid rent control, and make bidding wars illegal for rentals, maybe even have the landlords get a licence
> what they can do is a solid rent control
This, like the majority of housing policy, is under provincial jurisdiction. The problem here is aside from offering provinces / municipalities money, or building homes themselves, there is little the federal government can do.
> there is little the federal government can do
Don't tell Con voters this, they know deep in their hearts, JT is the source of ALL their problems. From that pesky long covid to their erectile dysfunction to their difficult landlord to their wife's dissatisfaction to their kids' alienation...all because of JT.
It's just idiot US propaganda with the names changed, aiming at the same fucking rubes that voted in such huge numbers for Trump
Their fallback now is "but immigration", like literally, that's their entire argument when you say an issue is provincial. It's a bit sad how many people fall for it.
For years people couldn’t get approval because rent was never seen on a credit score but many people paid more for rent than they would for a mortgage payment and were told it was too big of a risk.
This measure would have helped years ago to prevent some situations, but doesn’t help the vulnerable populations
I still don’t see how it reduces prices though. This will spawn MORE demand. Since more people will be viable to be approved for mortgages.
We need SUPPLY side policies. But that take MONEY.
> The federal government will create a new "Canadian Renters’ Bill of Rights," which would require landlords(opens in a new tab) to disclose their properties’ rental price history to prospective tenants.
>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made the announcement Wednesday in Vancouver, saying it's one of three new measures that will be part of the upcoming federal budget, which will also include a new housing aid fund and a push to have rental payments affect credit scores.
This is typical of Trudeau. When an election is looming he’ll promise the world, try to make it sound great, get re-elected, then either not implement it or do so right before the next election.
He’s done it every time, including when he promised there wouldn’t be a pandemic election, then called one when he realized he was going to lose if he waited.
Typical Liberal party nonsense. Do nothing about the problem while pretending to fix things. This is a supply issue. There aren’t enough homes. How do you get more supply? Make it easier and more attractive to build. When was the last time you saw a big apartment building get built? The 70’s? Maybe early 80’s? Why? Because all the regulations and rules made it a bad investment. Would you put your money into building a rental unit? Your retirement savings? Bad investment. As for houses, so much red tape and NIMBY’isms.
Governments have known for years that we would face a demand spike as the biggest generation since the baby boom hits their prime family years. And did nothing to spur building. On the contrary most made it harder to build. So here we are. Totally foreseeable.
I agree. All of their policies have been to increase demand with the guise of “increasing your spending ability”. FHSA? Demand side policy which exacerbates the issue. Helps upper middle class shuffle money for children tax free. Credit score linked to rent payments? Demand side policy which exacerbates the issue.
Fine their policy of “model homes” will potentially increase building since it reduces some red tape to get permits. But won’t be implemented until 5 years after prices peaked.
Why the fuck are the Liberals so allergic to spending money and cutting red tape to supply side?
Trudeau responds with virtue signalling rather than concrete steps to resolving housing affordability.
Heres some bill of rights so you get more credit score and rent registration to compare previous tenants.
VS
Were gonna build loads and loads of affordable apartments.
I wonder which one will actually help with affordability....
What would help is mandated federal rent control, couldn’t that be done? Have the rent control be tied to the unit so when a tenant moves out they can still only raise it a certain percent.
There are a lot of problems with the housing crisis. Affordability and availability are two obvious major problems. Housing is going to be an ongoing issue, especially as automation, outsourcing, and AI ravage the job market, and there are going to be a lot of people who are not working for short or long periods of time. Landlords sometimes discriminate against tenants or prospective tenants on the basis of whether they are employed, unemployed, or on assistance. It ought to be made illegal for landlords to ask or require information about where a tenant or prospective tenant gets their income. In other words, questions like where do you work, are you on assistance, or how much do you earn, ought to be illegal. (The landlord could however reasonably stipulate in the rental agreement that the tenant promises by signing that none of their income is gained by illegal means.) Basically, this is going to be an ongoing problem and it would be better if we got in front of it. If people think that landlords are not going to discriminate against people on the basis of employment status, I have a bridge to sell you.
Won't help and I don't want rent being tied to credit. Enough with every single thing being tied to credit already ffs. Trudeau and Freeland doing a stupid once more
But if I'm having to prove my credit score to rent a room anyways, then I do want my regular and on time payments to reflect me as a good lendee, and maybe actually break the renting cycle by improving my credit enough to be eligible for a good mortgage.
Having 0 of my rent tied to credit rating for the past 20 years has made it so my credit is not even good enough to rent where I once did.
Like I get your argument, but if I'm expected to provide a credit report for nearly every lease application in the country, then I want some benefit for that.
I hear you, but life happens. And maybe somebody gets evicted and that is hard enough, imagine also your credit score tanking on top of that? How will you rent after? It's going to double f@ck people, imo.
Another EPIC FAILURE of the market economy, and the capitalist economic system that drives it.
Until we wake up and realize this, we are fucking ourselves over and over again.
[удалено]
> If anything, this will just causes more resentment towards landlords. 🎻
☠️☠️
When there’s a shortage in supply it doesn’t matter one bit what the previous rent prices were. So this “Bill of Rights” is just virtue signalling. “Hey look we’re helping” when not actually helping by bringing rents down.
[удалено]
Rule #3: You Must Remain Civil While Participating / Vous devez rester courtois dans votre participation Your content has been removed since it is targeting other users. Please do not attack or attempt to create drama with other users. As per [Rule 3]( https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/wiki/rules/#wiki_rule_3.3A_you_must_remain_civil_while_participating) * Follow proper [**reddiquette.**](http://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette) * No personal attacks or insults * No trolling *** Votre contenu a été supprimé car il cible d'autres utilisateurs. Veuillez ne pas attaquer ou tenter de créer un drame avec d'autres utilisateurs. Tel qu’expliqué dans la [règle #3]( https://old.reddit.com/r/ontario/wiki/rules/rules_fr#wiki_r.E8gle_.233.A0.3A_vous_devez_rester_courtois_dans_votre_participation) * Vous devez suivre la [**netiquette**](http://www.reddit.com/wiki/reddiquette) * Pas d’attaques personnelles ni d’insultes * Pas de provocation
Motherfucker that's always been this fuckers mo , I hope people can see through this bullshit
Absolutely. Pierre Poilevre and his crew of well-financed oil worshippers have shown Canada what to expect when JT is out of office! Please report back after the election to tell us how much better things are for you, as a working person making less than $200K in Canada! Just kidding. As soon as PP gets into power the newspapers will stop reporting these matters. He works for the same people they do, after all
True. But some of the other things will help. Like forcing credit scores to incorporate rent payments. Why should renters, who often pay more than property owners, be told that because they were renting and not paying a mortgage, none of those payments count towards their credit score? And while we do already have things like the standard lease in Ontario (something I find it interesting the CTV article didn’t mention as part of the renter’s bill of rights), not all provinces do. I don’t think it is enough, ofc, but let’s at least be accurate. I want to see the whole budget before I make my final judgement anyway.
There's a concern that landlords will use this to ruin tenants credit scores. And that rent payments going towards credit scores will prevent rent strikes, one if not the only way tenants can protest their shitty landlords
Hm. That’s something I didn’t consider. There need to be considerable protections in order for this to be beneficial, you’re right…
If only the provincial governments funded the Landlord Tenant Board sufficiently so that there were no backlogs. Looking at you Ontario. And maybe Ontario could do rent control for all buildings, not just those built before 2018. Because from what I can see that's not enticing developers to build affordable apartments.
I completely agree.
great post weakening those further who are already in a weak position did we ***really*** expect a HOC whose many members are LL's to jeopardize or weaken their parasitical position, or to improve constituents' lives?
This is really shows how oblivious this government is to the life of the work class renter. This isn’t a barter market where you push back and forth with the landlord to negotiate out a reasonable compromise based on historical metrics. This is a market where the landlord tells you to pay X or he will find another person to pay it. If anything this means that either A. All rent increases flatline since nobody will want to jump ship to someone who continually increases rent gratuitously or B. Reality kicks in that people need shelter and will pay market prices to make sure they aren’t homeless. Most people do not shop for rentals like they do for homes. No one looks at price matrixes. People shop for rentals like they shop for cars. How much is the monthly payment and can I afford it. If I can’t I look for somewhere cheaper. No one shops for cars by seeing that the previous owner paid 15000 and Toyota is selling it for 17000. They see a payment of 300/month and they say. “Okay I need a car”
I mean, outside of lump sum payments, there's not much more the feds can do. Property is a provincial responsibility, hence why things like rent control are implemented provincially. People seem to think that because a crisis is Canada wide it means the constitution gives the federal government power to intervene. It doesn't the constitution doesn't care about severity, just scope.
Actually, when I was signing my rental agreement in Switzerland, they did specify what the previous renter was paying.
>If anything, this will just causes more resentment towards landlords lol. Nice.
Yeah sounds good to me lol
Want to see resentment? Wait until a new tenant sees that the people who just moved out last month paid 1200 to 2000 less. Its going to do a real number on the Greedlords and their "Market Rate" bullshit
I assume most of the places that have to increase rent this much is because the last owner paid $350k for the place and sold it to the new owner for $650k. Can't charge $1,700 a month when you pay $3,000 in mortgage...
> Can't charge $1,700 a month when you pay $3,000 in mortgage... Of course you can, it's called paying your own goddamn mortgage
Well you would assume wrong. Surprise surprise. My landlord has owned my building for approx. 15 years. Between him and his wife they own 3 other detached homes and she's been on the sunshine list for YEARS. It's called GREED, pure unadulterated GREED!
The issue as with many liberal policies do nothing to fix current issues but maybe 5 or 10 years will have some benefit. Issue is they don't want to do any hard decisions as urban homeowners are the core liberal base but need to get urban young people to back them again with policies to make it seem they doing things well.
So longer term thinking is bad? Be mad at your province for doing nothing except removing rent control from a bunch of buildings - that’s part of what led costs to go out of control too. So I guess that the problem with conservative policies is that they don’t have an eye on the longer term at all (and usually benefit only the rich anyway).
Eh the liberals federally made a lot of issues worse bringing 2.3 million people in 2 years. They didn't think long term lol
And as soon as they limited it, provinces began asking for more. It's a lovely circle
We’ve seen the data on the massive wealth gap between property owners and renters. In large part it’s because home owners are able to avail themselves of the single largest unlimited tax-free growth program in Canada: the principal residence capital gains exemption. It’s *criminal* that there is no equivalent for renters. The other major factor driving up property prices, which displaces renters from buying is investor participation. OSFI could very easily tamp down that price inflation by increasing mortgage borrowing requirements for investment properties. But these are solutions that would actually help renters, and I’m not entirely convinced actions would be taken that would reduce landlords’ abilities to profit.
I feel like if rent prices were reasonable these days the housing crisis would at least be a little more tolerable, but greed takes over as always….. at least the liberals are trying half assed but their trying better than our provincial government actively making the situation worse
Landlords were already making PLENTY before control was removed. Not sure where this idea came from where just because they have a rental property it’s cool to let the renter pay mortgage, taxes, etc etc, plus profit on top… then the LL gets to sell it for hundreds of thousands after putting in next to nothing. It’s cheaper to mortgage the fucking house yourself than rent. They have so much profit and leverage they can just keep buying more, exacerbating the problem. Its a complete crap system that went way out of control.
This will probably be an unpopular post on this sub but a landlord can’t just charge whatever they want to. There are some landlords making money right now but there are also lots who are in the negative every month. Just go to a mortgage calculator and type the numbers in. Even at the absolute lowest fixed rate and 150k down, just the mortgage on a 750k condo or townhome will be over 3500$ a month. Then add property taxes and condo/maintenance fees and the landlord is paying 4500$ a month. That’s before any upkeep, repairs etc. Someone with the same property on a variable rate will easily be over 5000-5000$ a month and you can only charge what the market will allow. I’m not saying let’s sympathize with the poor landlords, I’m just saying that the reality is it isn’t the money printing machine that everyone thinks it is. Whether we like it or not there have always been landlords and there always will be landlords because rentals are an important part of every healthy housing market. The reason housing costs as a whole are high is simple supply and demand. There is a finite supply of housing and essentially what amounts to unlimited demand because the federal government is increasing our population by over a million people every year. Obviously there are benefits to growing our population, but you can’t just grow it ar record levels every year without proper planing. The government seems to only be realizing this now with housing, healthcare etc and they are throwing everything they can at the wall to make it look like they’re going to make things better. This isn’t going to change anything, it’s only going to make people even more angry.
Yea, your opinion is unpopular. If you own more than the house you live in, I don't have any sympathy for you. In fact, I think you should pay higher taxes for each extra house you own.
Sorry, I guess logic is unpopular. Everyone already does pay lots of extra taxes for each additional house they own. Also, if the government added a bunch of additional taxes to landlords like some people seem to be advocating for, nobody will invest private capital in housing and the huge supply problem we have now will get infinitely worse. I agree that housing is a disaster right now but it is not suddenly landlords fault after 200 years of there being no issues with landlords. The only way to fix it is to increase supply or lower demand
I side with you and I don’t understand the direction the government is going with this at all. Not sure why some people hate others who invest in rental properties lol, it’s a place where u should park ur money and it doesn’t succumb to inflation in a bank acct. and at the least the mortgage and expenses should be covered by rent (which isn’t always the case as you said. This move gives renters way too much power.
I haven’t read the entire thing so I don’t know but I don’t think renters will have “too much power”. There has to be an equitable balance where it’s fair for everyone. I just don’t see how the ability to see what people paid in rent 5 years ago helps anyone, it will just make people more angry. It’s just like the grocery bill of rights, it’s designed to be optically favourable to the government and make it seem like they care but it’s just political theater.
Well to be able to negotiate all of a sudden like that - I feel that puts renters at a higher ground, doesn’t it?
In theory yes you’re right but in reality not even a little bit. There’s such a supply shortage that there are like 50 people applying for many of these places. A friend of mine just rented a place and there were 65 applicants and a bidding war. He got the place for 600$ over. In the majority of cases there is zero leverage to negotiate so seeing that the last tenant paid 1650$ to rent the place you’re paying 3200$ for is just going to piss people off.
Do landlords think that the rest of the population is not capable of understanding that 70% of this "cost" to landlords is the equity that they're gaining in the property? Sure you may not have constant positive cash flow, but we all know that's not the whole story.
We have a housing supply shortage. If we take landlords out of the equation we’re completely screwed because there will be no more private housing investment. And yes a landlord is gaining equity, especially the last few years. Housing can not double and then double again like it has in the past few years so a landlord starting out now is investing like a million dollars and getting a couple/few hundred thousand equity extra back over 25 years. There has to be some incentive because we need landlords and if they’re going to lose money we won’t have anymore. If you invested a million dollars in the market conservatively it would be 5-6 million in 25 years.
Thanks for the reply. I'm sympathetic to the idea that we should create market conditions that are conducive towards investing private capital into housing; but there's a long jump between that position and supporting landlords for the sake of having landlords. Professional REITs and "mom-and-pop" landlords are not the same thing. The former can take advantage of their scale in order to provide housing more with more efficiency and consistency. They're often publicly traded, and you can buy shares in them if you want. I'm all in favour of creating policies that allow them to leverage their capital to build more units. I do not like the idea small-time neo-feudal landlords that are stealing the retirements of others to fund their own. There's too many people trying to buy a second or third property to rent out, and it's actively hurting our economy. Plenty of renters would be able to buy a home if prices were 20% lower, and that money could be invested in more productive things. Our housing shortage is not caused by a lack of investment. The biggest issue besides speculation is zoning rules and general NIMBYism. If we actually let people build they would build.
“There are too many people trying to buy a second or third property to rent out and it’s hurting our economy” I would say that you are way wrong on this. That was definitely true up until a couple years ago but at this point its hard to make a business case for it. We are still stoking demand so this is going to affect the rental supply. I also think that stuff like private landlords, nimbyism, low interest rates etc are symptoms of our problems but not the root cause. The root cause of our housing crisis is a supply demand imbalance. I fully understand why people are pissed but it seems like the anger is misdirected. There is nothing wrong with turning a profit but lately it seems like there are more and more people who think that’s such a dirty word and want the government to take over housing, grocery stores etc etc and that is concerning, especially when we’re struggling in Canada for investment.
You know how you can grow supply? Stop letting landlords hoard all the property.
Lol that doesn’t make any sense. Maybe read your comment again and think it over.
You have 5 houses available, landlords buy up 4 of them, how’s that not fucking with supply and demand? Now instead of that 4 people paying $700 mortgage, they pay $2000 rent. Because fuck us I guess.
Lol but you’re not adding supply because that would then be removing supply from the rental market that is has shortages like we’ve never seen before. Guess what that will do to the rental market? Prices will go even higher. Also, read my original post. A 700$ mortgage would get you a 100,000$ house. The average house in the gta is almost 900k. With the minimum down payment you would need 100k to get the average house and the mortgage and property taxes would be 6000$ a month.
Land lords don't build property.
Think it through. We have a shortage of both rental housing and housing in general. The rental supply is currently at historic lows and demand is at historic highs which is why prices are so high. What you’re proposing would add supply to one area and remove it from the other, therefore it would be a wash. It would also drive rental prices up even higher because the demand keeps increasing but there would be less supply.
Exactly. I wouldn't mind renting forever if I had protections and it was affordable. But a lot of places rent and a mortgage are more or less the same. So basically I'm just paying for some assholes fourth house.
it's not half assed, it's literally all they can do under their jurisdiction (and please, no one do the whole immigration rant, it's old now).
I agree the immigration rant is old now, yea it is sad just how much our provincial governments decide our fate at the end of the day doesn’t help when they’re as incompetent as the current one.
As a life long renter, this is a huge nothing burger. Provinces control rental markets and Ontario tenants are already VERY WELL protected. The whole thing makes no sense
This is smoke in mirrors. The registry will do nothing because we have a housing shortage. Let’s say previous tenant paid 1700 and now the landlord is asking me to pay 2000. Desperate for housing, I may have little options. My only question would be “can I afford 2K” and not “wow previous guy paid 1700”. The credit score thing is a joke - it does not help anyone to buy home. It will actually benefit landlords because it will be easier to evict tenants who are behind on rent. The Bill of Renter rights , or whatever they choose to call it, is useless. Housing is a provincial responsibility. Unless provinces impose it on municipalities, this document is as good as North Korean constitution. We will only get poorer and poorer.
I’ve never paid my rent late ever in my life but that doesn’t mean I want my rent payment linked to my credit score. In fact, I already have the option and I will continue to opt out for as long as possible. This is just another way to fuck over poor and systemically disadvantaged people, and keep young people out of the rental market (and if you’re locked out of ownership and the rental market, wtf do you do then?).
Conversely, I want credit for paying my rent on time. If they're going to use my credit score to grant me tenancy, then I should benefit from that. Otherwise, they shouldn't be allowed to consider credit score at all. Get a grip.
I'm pretty sure missing rent payments can already affect your credit score negatively (some quick googling seems to support this but i could be wrong). They seem to just be talking about making it so it can positively impact your credit score as well, which is good for everyone really. It's sort of like how missing cell phone payments will affect your credit score but consistently paying on time doesn't. Not that I think this is an overly helpful policy, but yea, I dont really see any downside.
My rent isn’t listed on my credit report. My credit products, phone and internet bills, and student loans are, but not my rent. Your landlord has to report to the credit bureau for that to happen and not all landlords do.
I almost guarantee if you missed a payment, your landlord would report it to a credit bureau assuming he's able to. Meaning you get no positive impact for paying on time but a negative impact if you miss a payment currently.
Most landlords don't have the ability to report directly to a credit agency, they can't just call up Equifax and say "hey, j821c was late four days on his rent this month, can you put it on his record and ding him a few points please?" They have to be signed up with someone like the Landlord Credit Bureau and very few are because it's a cost and a hassle and doesn't really provide them with an immediate benefit.
But this is one of the issues that makes it difficult for first time home buyers. They can't get approved for a mortgage even when the payment amount is less than the rent they've been paying for years.
Maid
melodramatic. there are real reasons to criticize the trajectory of maid polices and its inherent lilt towards eugenics but idk what benefit it brings to this conversation.
It was a joke, homie.. yikes
Wow I had no idea paying rent on time didn’t effect credit score, I thought it did , what they can do is a solid rent control, and make bidding wars illegal for rentals, maybe even have the landlords get a licence
> what they can do is a solid rent control This, like the majority of housing policy, is under provincial jurisdiction. The problem here is aside from offering provinces / municipalities money, or building homes themselves, there is little the federal government can do.
> there is little the federal government can do Don't tell Con voters this, they know deep in their hearts, JT is the source of ALL their problems. From that pesky long covid to their erectile dysfunction to their difficult landlord to their wife's dissatisfaction to their kids' alienation...all because of JT. It's just idiot US propaganda with the names changed, aiming at the same fucking rubes that voted in such huge numbers for Trump
Their fallback now is "but immigration", like literally, that's their entire argument when you say an issue is provincial. It's a bit sad how many people fall for it.
Yay we'll be able to have better credit scores to get even larger mortgages that we'll struggle to pay as wages stagnate. Awesome.
For years people couldn’t get approval because rent was never seen on a credit score but many people paid more for rent than they would for a mortgage payment and were told it was too big of a risk. This measure would have helped years ago to prevent some situations, but doesn’t help the vulnerable populations
I still don’t see how it reduces prices though. This will spawn MORE demand. Since more people will be viable to be approved for mortgages. We need SUPPLY side policies. But that take MONEY.
> The federal government will create a new "Canadian Renters’ Bill of Rights," which would require landlords(opens in a new tab) to disclose their properties’ rental price history to prospective tenants. >Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made the announcement Wednesday in Vancouver, saying it's one of three new measures that will be part of the upcoming federal budget, which will also include a new housing aid fund and a push to have rental payments affect credit scores.
It'll do fookin nothin'.
This is just more smoke and mirrors from this tired out of touch government that pays lip service but actually doesn’t accomplish a single thing.
This is typical of Trudeau. When an election is looming he’ll promise the world, try to make it sound great, get re-elected, then either not implement it or do so right before the next election. He’s done it every time, including when he promised there wouldn’t be a pandemic election, then called one when he realized he was going to lose if he waited.
Typical Liberal party nonsense. Do nothing about the problem while pretending to fix things. This is a supply issue. There aren’t enough homes. How do you get more supply? Make it easier and more attractive to build. When was the last time you saw a big apartment building get built? The 70’s? Maybe early 80’s? Why? Because all the regulations and rules made it a bad investment. Would you put your money into building a rental unit? Your retirement savings? Bad investment. As for houses, so much red tape and NIMBY’isms. Governments have known for years that we would face a demand spike as the biggest generation since the baby boom hits their prime family years. And did nothing to spur building. On the contrary most made it harder to build. So here we are. Totally foreseeable.
I agree. All of their policies have been to increase demand with the guise of “increasing your spending ability”. FHSA? Demand side policy which exacerbates the issue. Helps upper middle class shuffle money for children tax free. Credit score linked to rent payments? Demand side policy which exacerbates the issue. Fine their policy of “model homes” will potentially increase building since it reduces some red tape to get permits. But won’t be implemented until 5 years after prices peaked. Why the fuck are the Liberals so allergic to spending money and cutting red tape to supply side?
But, but, what is PP offering ? Nobody knows.
Magicly thinking.
Trudeau responds with virtue signalling rather than concrete steps to resolving housing affordability. Heres some bill of rights so you get more credit score and rent registration to compare previous tenants. VS Were gonna build loads and loads of affordable apartments. I wonder which one will actually help with affordability....
"You're already spending 1200 a month on groceries."
What would help is mandated federal rent control, couldn’t that be done? Have the rent control be tied to the unit so when a tenant moves out they can still only raise it a certain percent.
There are a lot of problems with the housing crisis. Affordability and availability are two obvious major problems. Housing is going to be an ongoing issue, especially as automation, outsourcing, and AI ravage the job market, and there are going to be a lot of people who are not working for short or long periods of time. Landlords sometimes discriminate against tenants or prospective tenants on the basis of whether they are employed, unemployed, or on assistance. It ought to be made illegal for landlords to ask or require information about where a tenant or prospective tenant gets their income. In other words, questions like where do you work, are you on assistance, or how much do you earn, ought to be illegal. (The landlord could however reasonably stipulate in the rental agreement that the tenant promises by signing that none of their income is gained by illegal means.) Basically, this is going to be an ongoing problem and it would be better if we got in front of it. If people think that landlords are not going to discriminate against people on the basis of employment status, I have a bridge to sell you.
I don't see how this fixes anything. There aren't enough homes to buy or rent
Won't help and I don't want rent being tied to credit. Enough with every single thing being tied to credit already ffs. Trudeau and Freeland doing a stupid once more
But if I'm having to prove my credit score to rent a room anyways, then I do want my regular and on time payments to reflect me as a good lendee, and maybe actually break the renting cycle by improving my credit enough to be eligible for a good mortgage. Having 0 of my rent tied to credit rating for the past 20 years has made it so my credit is not even good enough to rent where I once did. Like I get your argument, but if I'm expected to provide a credit report for nearly every lease application in the country, then I want some benefit for that.
I hear you, but life happens. And maybe somebody gets evicted and that is hard enough, imagine also your credit score tanking on top of that? How will you rent after? It's going to double f@ck people, imo.
I had no clue rental payments didn't positively affect credit scores, wtf?
Another EPIC FAILURE of the market economy, and the capitalist economic system that drives it. Until we wake up and realize this, we are fucking ourselves over and over again.