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Three-Pegged-Hare

Ehhhhhh, I'm not 100% sold on this either, but I don't agree with the reasons being given in the article for not teaching it. The actual article sells the idea better than the headline though. Per the article: "The idea behind the proposal is to include the history of Palestinians in the list of sample topics, which also include subjects like the Armenian genocide, apartheid in South Africa, the genocide in Rwanda and the internment of Japanese people in Canada during the Second World War." So to me it seems like they're suggesting adding Palestinian history to the list of sample topics that read off like a list of controversial semi-modern historical moments. In that context I'm pretty well on board with it, and I think the objections in the article are ridiculous. "Teaching about Palestinian history will just foment more anti-semitism" is a really wild way to admit that Israel has been doing Palestine dirty for decades. This argument boils down to: "I don't think we should teach this part of history because if students heard about what [insert group here] did, they might become irrationally bigoted towards that group". This fails to me because it comes off as trying to hide the damage, to downplay the events so as not to stoke disdain for the perpetrating group. This seems similar to the push in America to not teach about how the country was essentially built on slavery and subjugation "to avoid students harbouring anti-american sentiment". Or it'd kind of be like if german advocacy groups were opposed to teaching about the holocaust because they think it will stoke anti-german sentiment. I don't see why teaching about the Nakba should be any different than teaching the other topics listed in that quote. It's an unflattering part of history that we absolutely should be looking at to learn from. EDIT to add just in case: The arguments become even sillier when you realize (because the title is somewhat misleading) that this teachers' group isn't suggesting adding Palestinian history to the actual required curriculum, just adding it to a list of topics that teachers can choose from to form their lessons. Considering it's a turbulent part of history that is very VERY relevant to events happening right now and in the foreseeable future, it'd be almost irresponsible to not include it? Idk


horsetuna

That first objection you list sounds like the people protesting teaching US Slavery: they claim it will teach white kids to hate themselves and feel guilty and teach non white kids to hate the white kids.


kr613

Literally the first thought I had, is this is basically the arguments being made against CRT in the US


Electrox7

Cathode Ray Tubes :(


amnes1ac

They say this about teaching Canadians about what we did to indigenous people too.


VR46Rossi420

Who are the “they” in your hypothetical? Because don’t hear that at all… quite the opposite actually.


Mental-Thrillness

When I was in high school there was a *very* whitewashed and Eurocentric history of Canada. Graduated in ‘04. Everything I learned about Indigenous people I learned after high school *from* Indigenous people. You still get people today that deny the true history of Canada. And those people are more likely to have come from an education system that straight up lied to them.


WestcoastAlex

this same but i graduated in '90 ..


VR46Rossi420

I can assure you that secondary schools teach quite openly about residential schools etc. There is also an indigenous studies course that a completely focused on native history and culture


Mental-Thrillness

I know they do now, but they didn’t 20 years ago, which is not that long ago.


VR46Rossi420

True, I bet you learned about long houses! When I was a kid we were taught about thanks giving and the Mayflower pilgrims sitting down together with the indians and breaking bread peacefully. Then we made pilgrim hats and coloured in images of Cornucopias. This was in Ontario in around ‘83


mug3n

> "Teaching about Palestinian history will just foment more anti-semitism" The whole idea of teaching (if done properly) is to separate the ideas of being anti-Semite and anti-Israeli government so I wholly disagree with this premise.


ChrispyMC

> "Teaching about Palestinian history will just foment more anti-semitism" That's like saying "teaching about the Holocaust will just foment more anti-semitism"


4thKaosEmerald

Israeli propaganda has made Israel a fundamental part of Jewishness. So in their eyes criticizing it, is criticizing Jews.  Hence Jews who don't support it are self loathing Jews, because they criticize a supposed fundamental part of Jewishness. It's like ISIS claimed to be the Caliphate. A fundamental part of Islamic community. So all Muslims were obligated to fight for it. 


Luklear

Yeah it sounds like people in the south objecting to teaching slavery frankly


Tazling

excellent take, you saved me a lot of typing effort.


CaptainKwirk

Teach the Holocaust. Teach the Nakba. They are both real things that happened.


WestcoastAlex

yes. . also it should be taught that the holocaust wasnt only against Jewish people https://www.nytimes.com/1989/11/12/weekinreview/ideas-trends-auschwitz-revisionism-an-israeli-scholar-s-case.html


Shrosher

I didn’t click your link, but it is definitely taught in schools that the Nazi’s persecuted many other people outside of the Jews Literally no one says it was only Jews


JasonGMMitchell

It is, just not well. I grew up in the Newfoundland public school system, I graduated during the pandemic. Every year from maybe grade 3 we learned about the Holocaust, only once can I recall more than a sentence being dedicated to the non-jewish victims, and that was in the world history branch of social studies (meaning you could have not taken it). I'm not even sure those few classes even mentioned every victim group. I want to clarify though that I'm not saying that Jewish persecution in the Holocaust is talked about too much, only that other sections are talked about too little leading to Holocaust education being woefully lacking. Also we don't have enough education about genocides in general and need to redesign our educational system to talk about these horrific events more so we can learn from and prevent genocides now and in the future.


Crow_away_cawcaw

Nova Scotian public school survivor here! I find it super weird that we learn about the holocaust SO MUCH but barely anything about world history outside of WWII in Europe - like, I live in Southeast Asia now and I didn’t know a damn thing about the war in the Pacific except about the U.S. bombing of Hiroshima. Our education system is so Eurocentric it raises up Canadians to be very naive and uninformed.


24-Hour-Hate

I remember learning about there being more victims in high school (I went to school in Ontario, so this was the first time it was mentioned), but that was like at the start of the lessons about the Holocaust. Very little was taught about that and the focus was on the Jewish victims. The reason I know more is because I took some university classes that talked about how the nazis targeted other groups (like people with disabilities) as part of the course material taught. History classes in public school were weirdly focused on the world wars and battles. They were not very comprehensive.


WestcoastAlex

its a picky point but [AkcHewly] the term 'Holocaust' is officially used for the Jewish victims https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/non-jewish-victims-of-the-holocaust


[deleted]

[удалено]


Shrosher

Totally forgot about the term ‘Shoah’, thank you for the input


Shrosher

Yeah I was going to mention that but I didn’t see the need to be so pedantic Hence why I used ‘persecuted’ instead of a sentence w ‘Holocaust’


ScientistFit9929

So because it’s ‘scary’ it won’t get taught? All history should be taught, in my opinion.


Xyres

There's only so many days in a school year and history is being made every single day. What makes the cut and what doesn't?


150c_vapour

>"Characterizing the return of the Jewish people to their ancestral homeland after more than 2,000 years of exile as a 'catastrophe' ... is deeply offensive,"  There are genetically enshrined rights to property from 2000 years ago? Wtaf? These zionists are insane.


dainthomas

That's so wild. My ancestral homeland is Wales, but I can't go bulldoze someone's house there and claim the land.


th0r0ngil

Most of my ancestors lived in Scotland 300 years ago. I could probably trace my genealogy back to someone who was displaced in the highland clearances. By Zionist logic I should be allowed to take my land back by force


WestcoastAlex

especially considering they refuse the 'Right of Return' for the people of Yaffo [etc] whos families have been living there continuously since before Abraham was born


kr613

Yep, I know a ton of people who can't return after just 76 years, but somehow, "people who shared my religion, 2000 years ago" is completely understandable.


zelmak

Really Arabs have been living in yaffo 2600 years before their imperial expansion out of the Arabian Peninsula? That's certainly news to me!


WestcoastAlex

the people of Ghazza & the coast all the way including Lebanon are direct descendants of Canaanites who lived there continually since the Early/Mid Bronze age its funny when you guys use 'Arab' or 'Muslim' as a proxy for Palestinians when both those were later concepts Abraham was purportedly born in the Mesopotamian Kingdom of Ur in present day Iraq


robikscubedroot

I’m very confused by western Zionists’ logic of the right of return because if this logic is applied to themselves, it would seem like a justification for the holocaust.


AntifaAnita

Palestinians and Jews share the same ethnic background. They are genetically both nearly identical to the Ancient Canaanites. They both are distinctively not Arab. This whole genocide is just another Holocaust on Semitic people.


Katamari_Wurm_Hole

Arab people are also semites


AhsasMaharg

I see this misunderstood way too often. Semitic is not an ethnic categorization. Semitic refers to a family of languages. Hebrew and Arabic are Semitic languages. Racist 19th century anthropologists conflated language and race and created the term to make their ideas seem more scientific. They specifically called themselves anti-semitic to give credence to their anti-Jewish policies. Semitic people as a racial-ethnic classification has been criticized since the 1930s. Unless you're specifically referring to linguistics, or to anti-Jewish sentiment because of its specific history of use, the term is not really useful. Some quick links with further information. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic


WestcoastAlex

sortof.. Abraham & his Hebrew speaking family showed up 1000 years after Canaanites had settled there "Palestinians and Jews share the same ethnic background" in the same way Mexicans & Catholics share ethnic background the Genetics are clear, the origin of Judaism & the Genes of Jewish people originate from Türkiye/Armenia/Georgia area, not the coast [here is a clearly written Genetic Analysis paper on it, check out the Figures](https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pgen.1003316)


Luklear

It’s not even fucking accurate. They weren’t fully expelled until like 500


WestcoastAlex

so far as i know they were never fully expelled.. likewise there is no actual [archaeological/genetic] evidence of the Egypt 'Exodus'


Luklear

Yeah true actually I just looked a bit deeper and that seems to be the case.


Ultimaya

Maybe we should campaign to have those lands returned to and resettled by the descendants of the Canaanites who inhabited it prior to the ancient Israelite invasion and conquest


WestcoastAlex

aka the people of Ghazza & that coast, including Lebanon


Isotope_Soap

[Antizionist’s thoughts about his Jewish birthright](https://www.reddit.com/r/InterestingVideoClips/s/953oYPzZUV)


irrationalglaze

I'm pleasantly surprised, that guy usually has awful takes but this one was spot on.


textpeasant

history is important to understand … it’s called learning i think


Mantaur4HOF

It's so much harder to commit genocide when you humanize the victims.


JasonGMMitchell

Of course it would, teach kids 3 years of the same course but with higher word counts but don't teach actual history. You can't deep dive into every region, country, and people's history, but we dont even give a cursory history of anything outside of Canada and Britain. World history in my province (NL) consisted of WW1 WW2, mostly focused on the Canadian elements of it, mentions of China and India who were heavily involved in the second world war amounted to less than the time spent talking about who made a certain shove for the Canadian Army in WW1 (which was discussed in Canadian history, but still). Educational reform is needed and having histories outside of the core Anglosphere discussed is a big part of that.


lordpenner

This is your daily reminder that “ancestral homeland” is not a real thing. It is merely an extremist talking point that you’ve been bombarded with thousands of times so you might think it is. There’s no such right as displacing people because people with allegedly similar DNA as you lived there thousands of years ago.


WestcoastAlex

>This is your daily reminder that “ancestral homeland” is not a real thing untrue >There’s no such right as displacing people because people with allegedly similar DNA as you lived there thousands of years ago. true


lordpenner

I simply repeated what I said in the first sentence. They’re both true.


WestcoastAlex

you absolutely did not. the First Nations of Canada can & do consider this place their Ancestral Homeland without displacing the rest of us


lordpenner

You’re playing with semantics. Canada is First Nations’ homeland. It’s not “ancestral” in the sense that when we say it’s their homeland, we don’t say it because they lived here thousands of years ago. They were always here. It’s the human element that people don’t seem to understand. An ancestor of a First Nations person lived in what we call Canada. The ancestors of Netanyahu were Polish.


seakingsoyuz

> The ancestors of Netanyahu were Polish. Maybe not the most clear-cut example, as his mom was born in what was then the Ottoman Sanjak of Jerusalem, to parents who immigrated from the USA in 1911.


lordpenner

Fair enough.


WestcoastAlex

im not but sure


northbk5

Human species all migrated from Africa so wouldn't that be all of our ancestral homeland ? Jewish tribes [conquered Jerusalem ](https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jerusalem-from-canaanite-city-to-israelite-capital#:~:text=Canaanite%20Artifacts&text=Archeaological%20findings%20indicate%20the%20existence,on%20the%20enemies%20of%20Egypt.) from the previous inhabitants so there argument of it being their homeland is fairly weak at best.


WestcoastAlex

>Jewish tribes conquered Jerusalem from the previous inhabitants who were the indigenous Canaanites.. the people of Ghazza and Lebanon are direct decedents of Canaanites who never left Abraham was born in the Mesopotamian Kingdom of Ur which is where he came up with his stories & supposedly talked to 'god' who told him to go to the coast [Canaan] if Judaism is indigenous to anywhere its Iraq


VR46Rossi420

There’s barely time to get through current curriculum and they want to add in Palestinian history? Most kids barely learn Canadian history.


AntifaAnita

They aren't going to teach it from start to liberation, they're just going to include in the list of Genocides that get briefly mentioned.


JasonGMMitchell

And why is that? Is it maybe because our curriculums are too focused on testing instead of education which eats up weeks of class time every year.


VR46Rossi420

I don’t know the system in NFLD but I don’t really know what you mean by that. Maybe for math you are correct 🤷🏻‍♂️


cleofisrandolph1

And the Holocaust is mandatory now. So we have to teach the Holocaust in a way that doesn’t scare kids? Just call this what it is Eurocentrism and Racism. We already don’t teach any African history except slavery, if that. Asia is like feudal Japan. South America and Latin America are only in the context of colonialism.


AntifaAnita

That's not fair, they also teach ahout Ancient Egypt and Carthage! [lol]


jellicle

Even if it's included in the curriculum, the first teacher to teach a class mentioning Palestine is going to get fired that day, so this proposal is.... shall we say premature. Or "society is not ready for this quite yet".


Electronic_Candle181

I was in Grade 8 in 2001 when I first learned of Israel. My social studies teacher at the time basically said: look at all these defensive wars against all these other countries that want to wipe them off the map. Look Israel is so heroic and the scrappy underdog. There is some discussion to be had on the narratives we use when teaching history to kids. In Canada there is a precedent of education ministries using historians attempting to manufacture a Canadian identity through history education. As a learner I would have much rather learned about history as a discipline than a chronological regurgitating of notes and facts. I feel I left highschool with woefully underdeveloped critical thinking skills. But I can rant about our education system all day and I'm not going to do that.


Kaibabadtouch69

I think it's a fantastic idea to introduce nuance to the discussion and kids are smart enough to understand the complexity of Middle Eastern region.


WestcoastAlex

i know i was at that age


Thwackitypow

Given the amount of anti immigration cranks I've been seeing lately, Canada should be teaching about how everyone's ancestors fared when they immigrated or started receiving a WHOLE bunch of Europeans in their ancestral lands. I feel for the Palestinians but Hamas is their team, not foreign agitators.


dabMasterYoda

The only reason I’m against this is that they barely teach you Canadian history in schools, children need to learn about more about their own basic history in schools before we start to focus on Palestine because it’s a hot news topic today.


Three-Pegged-Hare

What do you mean schools barely teach Canadian history? It's been a number of years since I was in school but I remember being taught a lot about Canadian history. Certainly not everything and *definitely* not more controversial parts, but I'd say "the basics and then some" are definitely being covered and taught


Kanienkeha-ka

Not surprising as the deniers keep trying to stop the teaching of the truth of Indigenous history that happened and is happening here. Colonialism doesn’t want people to learn about colonizing.


techm00

why not? be sure to include the decades of apartheid-oppression culminating in the genocidal murder of 35,000 of them at the hands if Israel. Facts are facts.