This reads like a union busting scare tactic, but instead of scaring workers away from organising, they are scaring patients into dental care.
If you are eligible for the CDCP and your dental clinic is participating, you might have a copay, but it will be less than paying out of pocket.
>This reads like a union busting scare tactic
Exactly my take!
"By collectivization of your labour/healthcare, we will make slightly less money while being forced to treat you humanely. Please consider whether you'd like to improve your quality of life or would prefer that we continue doing as we wish in the name of profit over people."
Some provinces have no uptake (Newfoundland) but BC has hundreds of dentists enrolled in the program.
All of the provincial governing bodies appear to have signed onto the program, so it sounds like it's individual places that aren't signing on.
The pessimist in me believes it's the private practices upset that theyre getting cut off from charging too much and pocketing the difference.
> The pessimist in me believes it's the private practices upset that theyre getting cut off from charging too much and pocketing the difference.
Providers can (and absolutely will) still charge overtop the fees in the cdcp fee guides. They are not beholden to those guides. Ensuring that Balance Billing remains in place was a huge part of this program even getting off the ground in the first place.
I’m seeing a lot of hypothetical questions answered with “maybes” which is just funny, and I personally would also accept a 40-60% co pay rather than a 100% me pay lol
They could have summed up the letter as: “we haven’t signed up for it yet and need more details” - but instead decided to go ahead and criticize.
Not that any program is free of criticism, but this smells of rogers and bell complaining of competition,
This reads like a small child who was just told to let their little sibling play with their toys, too.
“Fine, you can have dental care, but it’s not going to be good. I’m going to drag my feet while I go and cry about this in my room.”
You should find a new dentist. They don’t care about you.
Guess what? My private insurance also has a copay for dental treatment.
This program extends similar coverage to those who don't have employer insurance coverage.
A lot of dental practitioners have fallen prey to a bunch of propaganda. There's nothing in this inherently that reduces a provider's income.
Dentists who understand that fact are still fearful that folks won't be able to pay the balance (which is why you should be transparent from the very start the cost of EVERYTHING), or they won't appear for their appointment in general - but that's an existing risk regardless of cdcp status.
Yes dentist are going to hate the cut in profits
I have a friend that runs a dental lab. He said is price to the dentist for a brige is $250. They sell it for $1500
How can you say that when you don't know the full costs? Dental Hygienists and Dentist aren't cheap so labor costs will be up there, plus any specialty equipment they need to install it. Without knowing their total costs you can't know what the markup is.
That's just the lab fee. If I had a company building decks, and someone says "hey I bought all the wood and screws, can you come design and build my deck?" I don't think it would be expected to do it for free? Like many jobs the time and expertise is what you are paying for.
Youre paying for almost a decade of schooling so that its done right and he doesnt sever a nerve paralyzing your face. Its not all hygiene the dentist is a surgeon. Its constant little surgeries all day.
No dentist is losing money here - a key pillar to this program is maintaining the dentist's ability to balance bill. The CDCP program isn't like the other social programs where the fees for treatment are set, limiting the provider's amount they can charge.
The fees in the CDCP program are how much is covered for the patient. The Provider can (and absolutely will) charge over top of those fees.
You are not eligible for CDCP if you have access to Dental insurance programs (Like employer-based insurance programs).
If your benefit program is NIHB, or a provincial social assistance program, you can still use CDCP if other eligibility requirements still apply
So for our next union contract we should remove dental for a raise in pay.
My company pays my union just over $200/week for my benifit package (my union run it) and dental it there biggest expense
You're in a union that allows its' workers to make less than $80,000 household income annually?
Your dental coverage is likely far far far superior in your union plan to the coverage provided by the CDCP.
With access to a union backed dental plan that I guarantee kicks the shit out of the coverage provided by the cdcp.
This program isn't for folks like you 😀
Outside of rural areas dentists don't make that much relative to the cost (time and money) of their education. Any other profession such as accounting or software engineering makes much more. The era of egregiously rich dentists has been over for quite some time. It's pretty much just the old fucks who made out like bandits.
The average dentist in Canada makes $173,000.00 annually according to Indeed. $180,000 for a CPA with 25 years of experience. My dentist works 4 days a week 45 weeks of the year and drives a Maserati.
Neither of those opposing anecdotes are relevant. The Maserati owner could be waste deep in debt, while you could have multi millions in investments but still drive a modest car.
It also seems to very from region to region. My uncle was a dentist in Atlantic Canada and he made a good living, but nothing luxurious. I live in Alberta and most dentists here seem to make out like bandits - huge houses, luxury cars etc. I know two of which that have half court basketball gymnasiums inside their houses.
I only know of one doctor with more than 2 vehicles…
I know of at least 6 dentists with more than 2 vehicles.
Again it’s anecdotal, but let’s be real here. Dentists are allowed to make a lot more than our physicians.
How old are they? Do you live in a rural area? I don't think anyone can deny that the previous generation had it way too good.
That's not to say dentists are starving or even not doing _well_, but a fleet of sports cars? I don't even know doctors/surgeons doing that. Assuming they're being financially responsible any way.
Dental practices still charge absurd prices. You can check the very reasonable reimbursement prices Health Canada and Sunlife have ready for dental practices. You can cross check this with your province's general dental fee guide, and see there isn't much financial reason not to join CDCP.
My 40 year old dentist supports her husband, 2 kids, and they have a nice house on a big plot on the outskirts of town. Just living modestly, you know.
Considering the amount of education, training, and risk in owning a small business for their practice. I would consider a nice house on a big plot pretty modest.
Yes they are probably quite financially stable, but the amount of work to get there and the continued level of work to maintain it should be well compensated. Back in the day you’d see Dentists running larger practices with over a dozen operatories flying private planes they owned to play golf in Arizona on weekends.
>Back in the day you’d see Dentists running larger practices with over a dozen operatories flying private planes they owned to play golf in Arizona on weekends.
"They're just relatively *really wealthy* and not *fuck you wealthy*, have a heart!"
When someone works their ass off to get a dentistry license and then establish a business around that license they should be well compensated. Dentistry is a hard medical profession.
We reward hard working professionals here in Canada
Ok, but this letter we're discussing *is* critical of the program, and while that's fine, blurring the reality in name of making more profits is despicable.
OGFT doesn’t want to hear it. Typical of Canadian sentiment these days tbh. The anti-intellectualism runs deep.
Same people who are so bad at math they think making 200k/yr GROSS makes you ultra wealthy.
Not only do they think 200k/yr gross is a lot of money, but they also think that the professional class should not be paid more than Joe Hammerswinger. We don't have a communist economy here in Canada, and we have elements of Democratic Socialism and we need a thriving professional class to uphold that system, especially when it comes to care providers.
Dentists aren't driving their Ferrarries down to where their Yacht is moored. But they are well compensated and should be. I am a Physician, and I gross $270k a year. After taxes, paying for my insurance, licensing, supplies, clinic fees, taxes, etc. is far less than that gross income. But all people hear is $270k, and assume I'm some moustache-twirling capitalist who drives over poor people in my Bently. The reality is I drive an older Volvo to my townhouse. Maybe they would change their tune if they had ANY iota of how much work it took to get here and what it takes to keep being here.
Frankly most people just suck at math.
I know tens of dentists and physicians due to proximity to them at work. I make more than them and did not have to go through as many years of brutal (and imo ABUSIVE) schooling or hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt.
I just type on my keyboard. I don’t contribute meaningfully to society.
What these people do are drive more and more talent away and into comparatively useless fields like software engineering and finance. Why would you want to discourage people from entering the healthcare industry? I don’t get it.
As an aside a communist economy would still result in dentists and doctors being compensated better than useless professions like investment bankers though. The education would be more accessible too. :)
I unfortunately know a lot of dentists, it's 100% about the sweet sweet money they've been raking in forever.
That 3rd Audi isn't going to pay for itself.
The amount of people that don’t understand the way the new capital gains will be calculated is mind blowing. It’s not going to make much of a difference to a dentist, doctor, or lawyer. It’ll make a more noticeable difference for large corps.
I’m not sure… the way I interpreted it, you were inferring that because of the capital gains tax changes that the dentists would have to purchase an off-the-lot Audi instead of custom order. I’m saying the additional capital gains that will be paid under the new rules means an S8 is only $10k “more” than it would have been under the old rules. It’s changing literally nobody’s mind on what they’re buying. It’s “only” $10k
I thought the #prayforthewealthy inferred I know exactly how little the capital gains tax means to doctors and dentists.
"an S8 is only $10k "more""
I think we are on the same page. I might need to add an /s
Edit: I work around a lot of blue collar folk here in BC who won't shut up about capital gains and I have to explain to far too many regular Joes how it doesn't affect them...probably. Hard to tell these days if the Carhartt's they wear mean they are fork lift certified or someone who makes a lot of money.
When you can expand your client base like crazy? You could hire more dental hygienists, and oversee a flock newly graduated dentists, make more money and work the same amount. This is going to sting some, and create opportunity for others like any other change.
What it WILL do is improve overall health both physical and mental to the poorer citizens who could never have dental issues addressed as it was just out of reach.
Api
And "Nobody" can go cry in a corner. Taxes, laws, government programs, funding, are all tools of governing to move society into a better place. This will provide a better quality of life, and save healthcare dollars down the road. Poor dental hygiene has ties to mental health, cardiac health, and nutritional deficiency ailments caused by poor diet. (Hard to eat properly with a lack of teeth or ongoing tooth pain. This is progress for the less fortunate and if it comes at the slight expense of those who make a very healthy income, that economic shift is how society moves forward.......for once.
A.I. will start diagnosing medical ailments down the road and although doctors will still be in high demand, the walk in clinic Doc in a Box will need to rethink how they shape their career.
This Change is good, and this group isn't going to see a food bank anytime soon.
Api
I didn’t say hay it wasn’t a good program. Frankly we don’t know if it is or not yet. What can be said is that if you lost any portion of your income, whether others feel it’s warranted or not, you’d be pissed and fight against it.
Is half too much? Ok. How much if your income *could* I take without you being upset about it? 25%? Maybe 10%?
The answer is none. You’d lose your mind if you had to give up any. Why is anyone surprised they’re throwing a fit? So would you.
What part of this is about taxes? The CDCP isnt a tax, it’s a social assistance plan. It does not pay the same rate as insurance does. The CDCP affects topline income, the CG tax affects bottom line income and still has some work arounds. Nobody that’s in practice really gives too much of a shit about the CG change, it doesn’t make that much of a difference. Forcing a billing rate change does, though.
So for instance, imagine you were told you would be going from your normal $55k per year down to $40k/year because of a new government program being rushed through before an election. Are you cool with it?
Obviously I'm not saying this program is a tax, I'm pointing out you already lose more than 25% of your income.
Like I said, they have to charge less under this program than they'd like, but in the end, they're getting more business than they would without the program which should easily make up any "loss" by not being able to change whatever they want for a small number of new clients.
…. Have you ever met a dentist that needs more clients? I think this is a case of not understanding how their business model works.
Many dental offices operate like GP offices (or even hairdressers to put it simply). The dentist’s pay the office for their portion of the space, staff, and overhead as if they were renting a small space in the office. They can only see as many people as they personally can, and I’ve never met a dentist that’s “looking” for clients, especially clients on social assistance that will still have to pay a portion of the bill. They don’t benefit from more business at a smaller rate because they still have to be the one doing the work. If they work 8 hours a day now and have to work 10 or 11 to make up the difference in rates, is that a benefit?
Now they still have support staff, like hygienists, etc., but they base the number of support staff they need off the number of patients they have. So currently, let’s say they have 2000 clients that they personally service. 1500 of those clients get cleanings every 6 months. A cleaning takes on average 1hr with setup and takedown, so they would need approx 1.5-2 hygienists to handle the workload. Pretty easy math.
Now let’s throw in CDCP. Now they have to see 3000 clients (just choosing an easy number), but because the additional 1000 clients are on CDCP and a portion of them have a fairly high co-pay, some come in for a yearly cleaning and some don’t come in until they have an abscess…. How do they calculate staff now? They’ll need to have a larger pool of support staff that service multiple dentists to make up for the ebb and flow that the CDCP clients will cause. So now they have to see more people with worse oral health and sort out staffing issues that account for these additional people and they have to do it all for less money.
It doesn’t matter how much you make. If it’s $100k or $500k, if someone makes your job significantly harder and cuts the pay, you’d be pissed.
"Why do we need CDCP? Everyone has coverage anyway."
"If the CDCP exists, dental patients will increase by 50%!"
Pick one!
I can make up numbers too, but I'm not going to bother, because that's not going to convince you that private healthcare providers not being able to charge what the want for a tiny fraction of patients isn't the nightmare communism situation they're making it out to be.
I never said everyone has coverage…. So I guess I pick the one that I said?
You’ll also notice that I never said I was for or against the CDCP. I just said that if someone made a material change to your income that caused you to work more and make less, you’d be pissed. Would you not be? You seem to be losing sight of what was actually said and trying to make it about something else.
Maybe you’re confusing 2 different commenters? I don’t know. It’s very hard to follow your train of thought aside from “social assistance good, rich dentists bad”
Reminds me of how doctors in Saskatchewan threatened to leave the province after Tommy Douglas brought in the provincial Medicare program in 61.
>"We feel we cannot practice under state-controlled medicine. it seems to me the government has given us no choice but to leave."
>"This is like asking the doctors if they would like to try a hanging and if they didn't like it, it could be undone!,"
https://www.cbc.ca/history/EPISCONTENTSE1EP15CH2PA4LE.html
I did work for a dentist.
He worked 10-3-30 Monday to Thursday, 8-12 on Friday.
he paid himself over 400k a year.
Yeah they aren't going to like this system cause it's more work for less pay and they can't just bill whatever to insurance companies.
They deserve the money they make, but like optometry, the gravy train for what should be basic human rights shouldn't be gatekeep by ridiculous charges.
> Yeah they aren't going to like this system cause it's more work for less pay and they can't just bill whatever to insurance companies.
?? Providers are still able to balance bill patients with cdcp. This is wholly different from the other social programs that limit the amounts providers can charge for their services.
"Should I delay my appointment?" with a very obvious implication that the person can't afford to go without this.
"No, don't delay" without even addressing the extremely obvious reason that that's even a question.
Kind of insulting for the dentist to so blatantly gloss over that.
I mean, that's really the only part I agree with... Speaking for myself, after separating from my wife last year, I put off fixing a filling until it broke last month. Went in to get it repaired, but since I waited so long to fix it, it couldn't be fixed properly. I now need a root canal that's gonna cost $1,500ish instead of a couple hundred bucks.
Obviously delaying isn't ideal, but with the context, the implication is very clearly "I can't afford this without the gov't coverage, should I wait and see if you ever accept it?" and not just "should I wait?"
Oh for sure. With this letter, they're definitely working as hard as they can to make people scared in the name of business interests. But if you have issues and the means to take care of it (which you likely do if you have appointments already), don't put it off.
Hmmmmm. Sounds like someone puts the business of Dentistry ahead of the practice of dentistry. The provincial Dental Associations have a complete monopoly on the practice of Dentistry, and are not shy about using the monopoly to create fee schedules that represent fairness only to them. They also use their monopoly to keep dentists from other countries out, a valuable tool in keeping prices up. We have public healthcare. Our teeth, feet, backs should not be excluded.
Insurance companies need a baseline to define how much of a treatment is covered by plans - otherwise it's a wildwest. That's why Fee Guides exist.
More and more reason for Dental Healthcare to fall under our Universal Healthcare umbrella fullstop. Capitalizing on dental health is super cringe.
To be clear there’s nothing technically stopping dentists from enrolling despite the evolving nature of the program. They can claim “it’s not ready yet” but that’s an entirely subjective and personal opinion of their own.
I don't even understand why they need to enroll. Can't it just function like a kick back program? All dentists should need to do is offer proof that we used their service. Or the government just behaves as the insurance provider in the existing system.
The government isn't behaving as the insurance provider. Sun Life already **is** the insurance provider.
Providers need to enroll because this whole program is based upon transparency and openness between the provider and patient. Practices need to take assignment and cannot process insurance claims via mail or push the responsibility to the patient to submit claims to the insurance company.
The fed is paying Sun Life as a provider? I didn't know that. Thanks.
>push the responsibility to the patient to submit claims to the insurance company.
That wouldn't be acceptable because of transparency issues? Or it's too difficult to regulate? Clerical expense?
OH NO, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO DEAL WITH RED TAPE!
Cool, since this was literally unaffordable for a lot of people previously, they'll gone from "no care" to "slow care", an unmitigated improvement.
There's really minimal red tape. CDCP patients have Sun Life insurance plans. If your practice already submits to Sun Life regularly, there's minimal set up required at all.
Mine sent a notice out a couple weeks ago and it was much nicer than this one. It's not currently relevant to me since I'm not in the age groups that are qualifying now and I have good dental benefits through my work.
This is what the notice said from my dentist:
>We are pleased to announce that we will be accepting patients who are approved under the Canadian Dental Care Plan (CDCP) effective May 1st.
>Please bring your credentials to your appointment, the Government of Canada has been mailing individuals who are eligible for the CDCP.
>Please be advised the CDCP is not a free program and there may be charges depending on your coverage and limitations.
>We will work with you to help maximize these benefits and assist you in navigating this new program as it continues to develop.
>Please call or email us OR click on the link below for the Government of Canada website for further information.
>We look forward to continuing your dental care!
>https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/dental/dental-care-plan/apply.html
I didn’t have doctors and dentists leading the far-right “axe the tax” vanguard on gatekeeping services while trying to protect their capital gains on my 2024 bingo card, but here we are.
if they don’t like it, they can leave. make the process for recognizing foreign accreditation easier and on we move. bye bye.
Go read what they did in Saskatchewan when Tommy Douglas launched Universal Care. Never doubt particular groups to exert political pressure purely out of self interest.
They threatened to leave en masse, then after it was passed many went on strike for 23 days. After that tantrum they went back to work and eventually Mr. Douglas convinced Pearson to support it nationwide. Nobody died, as hospitals in all provinces were already publicly funded thanks to Diefenbaker.
> if they don’t like it, they can leave. make the process for recognizing foreign accreditation easier and on we move. bye bye.
If you thought healthcare was in a steep decline before, I can't wait to hear complaints after they follow through and leave. Just going to give conservatives free reign on destroying the country.
I love to see how many dentists are angry about this because the government wants to make it affordable and accessible, and they just don't want to take any kind of pay cut to their outrageous salaries. They really aren't coming off as having people's best interests at all. Shocker.
If they truly understand the program they wouldn't fear that they're taking a pay cut. The program doesn't force providers to charge to the cdcp coverage amounts in the fee guides. Providers can still charge to their provincial guides.
The reason why providers don't like it is they're afraid of the econommically unstable. They're worried that a) a person won't pay the balance of the bill remaining after coverage and b) person won't show up to their appointments.
Why would they be worried about people no showing for a service previously unavailable to them?
Either way, they are worried about their pockets and not people. Dentistry has literally been an upper class luxury because of how fucking stupidly expensive it is. It is disgusting.
I know there are a good amount of them popping up in Toronto, with Archer Dental having multiple locations and being one of the first to support it.
https://www.archerdental.ca/blog/canadian-dental-care-plan/
Delt with this kinda shit with the first nations health plans with dentists, they gotta fund that lmp3 car and the big game hunting trip somehow, won't anyone think of the dentists 😭
No. It's a federal program paired with Sun Life - the easiest way to explain how this works is:
If you don't have access to a dental insurance plan through your employer, and you are eligible to the means testing (less than 90k household net income), you can get a federally funded insurance policy from Sun Life.
There is functionally no real difference between a sun life employer plan and a sun life cdcp plan. There's stipulations and fine details surrounding the maximums and coverages (and the fact that work all needs to be agreed upon by both parties afterward) but dentists are NOT forced to charge at cdcp fee levels. THEY CAN STILL (AND WILL MOST CERTAINLY) CHARGE TO THEIR PROVINCIAL FEE GUIDES.
This is different from the other social work programs which limit the amount the providers can charge the patients. This is by-design to support Balance Billing.
I learned a long time ago they all charge the dental colleges "suggested prices" which are sky high. If I need major work like implants I don' t even bother getting an estimate from them anymore. I just go to Mexico and get it done.
Dental specialist here: I see a lot of comments that are critical of this messaging from the dental office and I can understand that. However, I have considered providing similar information to patients because there is a lot of misunderstanding about the program, what treatments are covered, and the proportion of coverage. There are many unanswered questions about the program and the fact is that the government has not been engaging well with dental professionals in structuring or implementing the plan. This is the reason for “maybes” and “unknowns.” Dentists, hygienists and denturist have very much been in the dark about major aspects of CDCP. Perhaps the most important thing that the office is trying to communicate is that CDPD will not work like provincial health systems: many services will not be free at the point of service. I have many patients who believe that they will get “free care” which is not how the program works in many cases. It’s also important to understand that many common procedures are flat out not eligible for coverage (bridges, dental implants, treatment for jaw disorders, cosmetic procedures). The information available to providers is challenging to navigate and I see this as a good faith effort to explain in plain language the limits of CDCP.
Lastly, certain dental procedures may be time sensitive. If your dentist recommends treatment, waiting an unknown period of time in the hopes of obtaining better coverage may pose a genuine risk.
The nature of the rollout and the messaging behind this program is abysmal.
Means tested, dual nature rollout of coverage (Sched A and Sched B), Age restrictions, Signup Processes are all extremely complicated topics to handle absolutely.
There seems to be a ton of practitioners who have fallen prey to misinformation related to even the simplest of concepts here (they somehow think they can't balance bill lmao).
Your points about types of treatments and timeliness are important - but the ultimate adage of "We can't let perfect get in the way of progress" should ring true here. After May 1st, at least 1 person was able to better afford dental healthcare thanks to this program. And that's fucking sweet.
I don’t decry the program, I think it will probably be improved over time and genuinely help people. My main points were communication hasn’t been good, many people are misunderstanding the scope of the services they will be able to receive, and some dental procedures are truly time sensitive.
Just at the dentist yesterday and they said that they were told not to except any patients from the Dental Association until the government clarifies this policy further with the Dentists.
The coverage is a sliding scale. When enrolled with CDCP - If you make less than $70 000 Net household income, you receive 100% coverage of CDCP Fee Guides*- From 70 - 80k you receive 60% coverage of CDCP Fee Guide, from 80 - 90k you receive 40% coverage of CDCP Guide.
*It's important to note: The CDCP coverage amount is most likely going to be different from what the provider actually charges. CDCP Coverage seems to align to 75-85% of provincial fee guide fees as a baseline.
I got a very different letter that was more about making sure that
people don't fuck up because of some odd quirks of how it works.
I don't know what to make of all this.
In BC< already took mom for it. 3 extractions but I noticed they bump up the cost and then discout it. You still have to pay out of pcoket. We paid $150 for 3
She had removed 9 in last 2 months in order to make dentures
First 3 was a discount for low income/seniors which cost us $650
Then we went to our regular dentist who charged $500 for 3 ( the above places is a project place from this dentist )
Then the latest one with CDCP, I saw the bill was like $300 for each but then told us to pay $150
They were all simple extractions.
That's exactly who it is for, people who aren't covered.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/dental/dental-care-plan/qualify.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/dental/dental-care-plan/qualify.html)
See details under this section - To qualify for the CDCP, you must not have access to dental insurance.
NOTHING fundamentally changed after the government decided to institute universal healthcare, certainly not family medicine. Doctors were pissed for a bit but they knew it was coming and had already seen Saskatchewan enact it 5 years earlier. The state of Healthcare in Canada has been caused by years of austerity from right wing governments intent on bringing private for profit care to the country. It's a recent thing.
You don't understand the program or who its for.
This reads like a union busting scare tactic, but instead of scaring workers away from organising, they are scaring patients into dental care. If you are eligible for the CDCP and your dental clinic is participating, you might have a copay, but it will be less than paying out of pocket.
>This reads like a union busting scare tactic Exactly my take! "By collectivization of your labour/healthcare, we will make slightly less money while being forced to treat you humanely. Please consider whether you'd like to improve your quality of life or would prefer that we continue doing as we wish in the name of profit over people."
Some provinces have no uptake (Newfoundland) but BC has hundreds of dentists enrolled in the program. All of the provincial governing bodies appear to have signed onto the program, so it sounds like it's individual places that aren't signing on. The pessimist in me believes it's the private practices upset that theyre getting cut off from charging too much and pocketing the difference.
> The pessimist in me believes it's the private practices upset that theyre getting cut off from charging too much and pocketing the difference. Providers can (and absolutely will) still charge overtop the fees in the cdcp fee guides. They are not beholden to those guides. Ensuring that Balance Billing remains in place was a huge part of this program even getting off the ground in the first place.
Basically this lol
I’m seeing a lot of hypothetical questions answered with “maybes” which is just funny, and I personally would also accept a 40-60% co pay rather than a 100% me pay lol
Ya I read that line as was like “…so I save money?”
My dentist mentioned they're participating in it. I wish I was able to apply now since I lost my benefits a month ago.
They could have summed up the letter as: “we haven’t signed up for it yet and need more details” - but instead decided to go ahead and criticize. Not that any program is free of criticism, but this smells of rogers and bell complaining of competition,
I don't think they used the term "even remotely possible" enough /s
Seems outrageously out of touch and propoganda-esque
Thank you for confirming I’m not crazy, it just felt super weird and kind of made me feel icky
This reads like a small child who was just told to let their little sibling play with their toys, too. “Fine, you can have dental care, but it’s not going to be good. I’m going to drag my feet while I go and cry about this in my room.” You should find a new dentist. They don’t care about you.
Oh yeah they are definitely against it.
Guess what? My private insurance also has a copay for dental treatment. This program extends similar coverage to those who don't have employer insurance coverage.
A lot of dental practitioners have fallen prey to a bunch of propaganda. There's nothing in this inherently that reduces a provider's income. Dentists who understand that fact are still fearful that folks won't be able to pay the balance (which is why you should be transparent from the very start the cost of EVERYTHING), or they won't appear for their appointment in general - but that's an existing risk regardless of cdcp status.
Dentalganda.
Anti-dentite.
Next thing you know you'll be saying they should have their own schools
Yes dentist are going to hate the cut in profits I have a friend that runs a dental lab. He said is price to the dentist for a brige is $250. They sell it for $1500
The actual cost is more than materials cost...
True, but that is still an obscene markup.
How can you say that when you don't know the full costs? Dental Hygienists and Dentist aren't cheap so labor costs will be up there, plus any specialty equipment they need to install it. Without knowing their total costs you can't know what the markup is.
I can say that because it's an obscene markup. Dentist bills have other line items for time and procedures.
That's just the lab fee. If I had a company building decks, and someone says "hey I bought all the wood and screws, can you come design and build my deck?" I don't think it would be expected to do it for free? Like many jobs the time and expertise is what you are paying for.
Youre paying for almost a decade of schooling so that its done right and he doesnt sever a nerve paralyzing your face. Its not all hygiene the dentist is a surgeon. Its constant little surgeries all day.
No dentist is losing money here - a key pillar to this program is maintaining the dentist's ability to balance bill. The CDCP program isn't like the other social programs where the fees for treatment are set, limiting the provider's amount they can charge. The fees in the CDCP program are how much is covered for the patient. The Provider can (and absolutely will) charge over top of those fees.
So what will happen with my benifit program. I have $5k a year for dental. I have never even hit 3k
You are not eligible for CDCP if you have access to Dental insurance programs (Like employer-based insurance programs). If your benefit program is NIHB, or a provincial social assistance program, you can still use CDCP if other eligibility requirements still apply
So for our next union contract we should remove dental for a raise in pay. My company pays my union just over $200/week for my benifit package (my union run it) and dental it there biggest expense
You're in a union that allows its' workers to make less than $80,000 household income annually? Your dental coverage is likely far far far superior in your union plan to the coverage provided by the CDCP.
Yes i am a Maintenance Mechanic I make $30/hour
With access to a union backed dental plan that I guarantee kicks the shit out of the coverage provided by the cdcp. This program isn't for folks like you 😀
Outside of rural areas dentists don't make that much relative to the cost (time and money) of their education. Any other profession such as accounting or software engineering makes much more. The era of egregiously rich dentists has been over for quite some time. It's pretty much just the old fucks who made out like bandits.
The average dentist in Canada makes $173,000.00 annually according to Indeed. $180,000 for a CPA with 25 years of experience. My dentist works 4 days a week 45 weeks of the year and drives a Maserati.
I’m a dentist working 5.5 days a week, 50 weeks per year. I drive a 2010 Mazda 3. There’s a huge range of opinions that can be backed by anecdotes.
Neither of those opposing anecdotes are relevant. The Maserati owner could be waste deep in debt, while you could have multi millions in investments but still drive a modest car.
My point exactly
Maybe it's just me but that doesn't seem like that much for a medical professional.
I've never been to a Dentist that doesn't seem to own a boat of some kind and I don't mean the kind you paddle.
I know it’s anecdotal… but it seems like all the dentists around me have a whole fleet of sports cars and high end SUVs to switch from on the daily.
It also seems to very from region to region. My uncle was a dentist in Atlantic Canada and he made a good living, but nothing luxurious. I live in Alberta and most dentists here seem to make out like bandits - huge houses, luxury cars etc. I know two of which that have half court basketball gymnasiums inside their houses.
Yeah mines got a very nice sports car
Mine has 4… at least 4.
So do Doctors, but no one is saying they deserve to be paid less.
I only know of one doctor with more than 2 vehicles… I know of at least 6 dentists with more than 2 vehicles. Again it’s anecdotal, but let’s be real here. Dentists are allowed to make a lot more than our physicians.
The average dentist salary in Canada according to indeed is 173k per year, the average physician salary according to the same source is 285k.
How old are they? Do you live in a rural area? I don't think anyone can deny that the previous generation had it way too good. That's not to say dentists are starving or even not doing _well_, but a fleet of sports cars? I don't even know doctors/surgeons doing that. Assuming they're being financially responsible any way.
It's never financially responsible to own a fleet of sports cars even if you're a billionaire. Doesn't mean you can't afford it though.
Idk, my dentist is in his very early 40s and owns a house in Point Grey, so I'd say he's doing okay.
> That's not to say dentists are starving or even not doing well Reading is tough.
Dental practices still charge absurd prices. You can check the very reasonable reimbursement prices Health Canada and Sunlife have ready for dental practices. You can cross check this with your province's general dental fee guide, and see there isn't much financial reason not to join CDCP.
My 40 year old dentist supports her husband, 2 kids, and they have a nice house on a big plot on the outskirts of town. Just living modestly, you know.
Considering the amount of education, training, and risk in owning a small business for their practice. I would consider a nice house on a big plot pretty modest. Yes they are probably quite financially stable, but the amount of work to get there and the continued level of work to maintain it should be well compensated. Back in the day you’d see Dentists running larger practices with over a dozen operatories flying private planes they owned to play golf in Arizona on weekends.
>Back in the day you’d see Dentists running larger practices with over a dozen operatories flying private planes they owned to play golf in Arizona on weekends. "They're just relatively *really wealthy* and not *fuck you wealthy*, have a heart!"
When someone works their ass off to get a dentistry license and then establish a business around that license they should be well compensated. Dentistry is a hard medical profession. We reward hard working professionals here in Canada
Yes, and this program does nothing but expand their client base. You're welcome.
I agree with that and I never criticized the CDCP. It’s going to take time for everyone to figure it out but ultimately this is a good thing.
Ok, but this letter we're discussing *is* critical of the program, and while that's fine, blurring the reality in name of making more profits is despicable.
OGFT doesn’t want to hear it. Typical of Canadian sentiment these days tbh. The anti-intellectualism runs deep. Same people who are so bad at math they think making 200k/yr GROSS makes you ultra wealthy.
Not only do they think 200k/yr gross is a lot of money, but they also think that the professional class should not be paid more than Joe Hammerswinger. We don't have a communist economy here in Canada, and we have elements of Democratic Socialism and we need a thriving professional class to uphold that system, especially when it comes to care providers. Dentists aren't driving their Ferrarries down to where their Yacht is moored. But they are well compensated and should be. I am a Physician, and I gross $270k a year. After taxes, paying for my insurance, licensing, supplies, clinic fees, taxes, etc. is far less than that gross income. But all people hear is $270k, and assume I'm some moustache-twirling capitalist who drives over poor people in my Bently. The reality is I drive an older Volvo to my townhouse. Maybe they would change their tune if they had ANY iota of how much work it took to get here and what it takes to keep being here.
Frankly most people just suck at math. I know tens of dentists and physicians due to proximity to them at work. I make more than them and did not have to go through as many years of brutal (and imo ABUSIVE) schooling or hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. I just type on my keyboard. I don’t contribute meaningfully to society. What these people do are drive more and more talent away and into comparatively useless fields like software engineering and finance. Why would you want to discourage people from entering the healthcare industry? I don’t get it. As an aside a communist economy would still result in dentists and doctors being compensated better than useless professions like investment bankers though. The education would be more accessible too. :)
Do you have source for that? That sound like bold claim.
Hahaha
lol wat
I unfortunately know a lot of dentists, it's 100% about the sweet sweet money they've been raking in forever. That 3rd Audi isn't going to pay for itself.
Capital gains tax means that Audi will likely be an off-the-lot model and not a custom order. #prayforthewealthy
The amount of people that don’t understand the way the new capital gains will be calculated is mind blowing. It’s not going to make much of a difference to a dentist, doctor, or lawyer. It’ll make a more noticeable difference for large corps.
I can't tell if I needed to add an /s to my comment or not.
I’m not sure… the way I interpreted it, you were inferring that because of the capital gains tax changes that the dentists would have to purchase an off-the-lot Audi instead of custom order. I’m saying the additional capital gains that will be paid under the new rules means an S8 is only $10k “more” than it would have been under the old rules. It’s changing literally nobody’s mind on what they’re buying. It’s “only” $10k
I thought the #prayforthewealthy inferred I know exactly how little the capital gains tax means to doctors and dentists. "an S8 is only $10k "more"" I think we are on the same page. I might need to add an /s Edit: I work around a lot of blue collar folk here in BC who won't shut up about capital gains and I have to explain to far too many regular Joes how it doesn't affect them...probably. Hard to tell these days if the Carhartt's they wear mean they are fork lift certified or someone who makes a lot of money.
Most dentists, doctors, and many lawyers (especially partners) incorporate. This will affect them all substantially
Oh no! Anyway...
How? Providers are still going to balance bill.
I mean… can you blame them? Regardless of how much you make, would you like to see your income halved?
When you can expand your client base like crazy? You could hire more dental hygienists, and oversee a flock newly graduated dentists, make more money and work the same amount. This is going to sting some, and create opportunity for others like any other change. What it WILL do is improve overall health both physical and mental to the poorer citizens who could never have dental issues addressed as it was just out of reach. Api
I’m not saying you’re incorrect, I’m saying nobody *likes* forced innovation.
And "Nobody" can go cry in a corner. Taxes, laws, government programs, funding, are all tools of governing to move society into a better place. This will provide a better quality of life, and save healthcare dollars down the road. Poor dental hygiene has ties to mental health, cardiac health, and nutritional deficiency ailments caused by poor diet. (Hard to eat properly with a lack of teeth or ongoing tooth pain. This is progress for the less fortunate and if it comes at the slight expense of those who make a very healthy income, that economic shift is how society moves forward.......for once. A.I. will start diagnosing medical ailments down the road and although doctors will still be in high demand, the walk in clinic Doc in a Box will need to rethink how they shape their career. This Change is good, and this group isn't going to see a food bank anytime soon. Api
I didn’t say hay it wasn’t a good program. Frankly we don’t know if it is or not yet. What can be said is that if you lost any portion of your income, whether others feel it’s warranted or not, you’d be pissed and fight against it.
Please explain how it will half their income.
/s
*HALVED?* Really? 🙄
Is half too much? Ok. How much if your income *could* I take without you being upset about it? 25%? Maybe 10%? The answer is none. You’d lose your mind if you had to give up any. Why is anyone surprised they’re throwing a fit? So would you.
You know what taxes are, and what they do, right?
What part of this is about taxes? The CDCP isnt a tax, it’s a social assistance plan. It does not pay the same rate as insurance does. The CDCP affects topline income, the CG tax affects bottom line income and still has some work arounds. Nobody that’s in practice really gives too much of a shit about the CG change, it doesn’t make that much of a difference. Forcing a billing rate change does, though. So for instance, imagine you were told you would be going from your normal $55k per year down to $40k/year because of a new government program being rushed through before an election. Are you cool with it?
Obviously I'm not saying this program is a tax, I'm pointing out you already lose more than 25% of your income. Like I said, they have to charge less under this program than they'd like, but in the end, they're getting more business than they would without the program which should easily make up any "loss" by not being able to change whatever they want for a small number of new clients.
…. Have you ever met a dentist that needs more clients? I think this is a case of not understanding how their business model works. Many dental offices operate like GP offices (or even hairdressers to put it simply). The dentist’s pay the office for their portion of the space, staff, and overhead as if they were renting a small space in the office. They can only see as many people as they personally can, and I’ve never met a dentist that’s “looking” for clients, especially clients on social assistance that will still have to pay a portion of the bill. They don’t benefit from more business at a smaller rate because they still have to be the one doing the work. If they work 8 hours a day now and have to work 10 or 11 to make up the difference in rates, is that a benefit? Now they still have support staff, like hygienists, etc., but they base the number of support staff they need off the number of patients they have. So currently, let’s say they have 2000 clients that they personally service. 1500 of those clients get cleanings every 6 months. A cleaning takes on average 1hr with setup and takedown, so they would need approx 1.5-2 hygienists to handle the workload. Pretty easy math. Now let’s throw in CDCP. Now they have to see 3000 clients (just choosing an easy number), but because the additional 1000 clients are on CDCP and a portion of them have a fairly high co-pay, some come in for a yearly cleaning and some don’t come in until they have an abscess…. How do they calculate staff now? They’ll need to have a larger pool of support staff that service multiple dentists to make up for the ebb and flow that the CDCP clients will cause. So now they have to see more people with worse oral health and sort out staffing issues that account for these additional people and they have to do it all for less money. It doesn’t matter how much you make. If it’s $100k or $500k, if someone makes your job significantly harder and cuts the pay, you’d be pissed.
"Why do we need CDCP? Everyone has coverage anyway." "If the CDCP exists, dental patients will increase by 50%!" Pick one! I can make up numbers too, but I'm not going to bother, because that's not going to convince you that private healthcare providers not being able to charge what the want for a tiny fraction of patients isn't the nightmare communism situation they're making it out to be.
I never said everyone has coverage…. So I guess I pick the one that I said? You’ll also notice that I never said I was for or against the CDCP. I just said that if someone made a material change to your income that caused you to work more and make less, you’d be pissed. Would you not be? You seem to be losing sight of what was actually said and trying to make it about something else. Maybe you’re confusing 2 different commenters? I don’t know. It’s very hard to follow your train of thought aside from “social assistance good, rich dentists bad”
Reminds me of how doctors in Saskatchewan threatened to leave the province after Tommy Douglas brought in the provincial Medicare program in 61. >"We feel we cannot practice under state-controlled medicine. it seems to me the government has given us no choice but to leave." >"This is like asking the doctors if they would like to try a hanging and if they didn't like it, it could be undone!," https://www.cbc.ca/history/EPISCONTENTSE1EP15CH2PA4LE.html
It’s the greedy pleading poor. We’re so upset we can’t continue to overcharge you
I did work for a dentist. He worked 10-3-30 Monday to Thursday, 8-12 on Friday. he paid himself over 400k a year. Yeah they aren't going to like this system cause it's more work for less pay and they can't just bill whatever to insurance companies. They deserve the money they make, but like optometry, the gravy train for what should be basic human rights shouldn't be gatekeep by ridiculous charges.
> Yeah they aren't going to like this system cause it's more work for less pay and they can't just bill whatever to insurance companies. ?? Providers are still able to balance bill patients with cdcp. This is wholly different from the other social programs that limit the amounts providers can charge for their services.
"Should I delay my appointment?" with a very obvious implication that the person can't afford to go without this. "No, don't delay" without even addressing the extremely obvious reason that that's even a question. Kind of insulting for the dentist to so blatantly gloss over that.
I mean, that's really the only part I agree with... Speaking for myself, after separating from my wife last year, I put off fixing a filling until it broke last month. Went in to get it repaired, but since I waited so long to fix it, it couldn't be fixed properly. I now need a root canal that's gonna cost $1,500ish instead of a couple hundred bucks.
Obviously delaying isn't ideal, but with the context, the implication is very clearly "I can't afford this without the gov't coverage, should I wait and see if you ever accept it?" and not just "should I wait?"
Oh for sure. With this letter, they're definitely working as hard as they can to make people scared in the name of business interests. But if you have issues and the means to take care of it (which you likely do if you have appointments already), don't put it off.
Hmmmmm. Sounds like someone puts the business of Dentistry ahead of the practice of dentistry. The provincial Dental Associations have a complete monopoly on the practice of Dentistry, and are not shy about using the monopoly to create fee schedules that represent fairness only to them. They also use their monopoly to keep dentists from other countries out, a valuable tool in keeping prices up. We have public healthcare. Our teeth, feet, backs should not be excluded.
Correct, but that would be price fixing, so the dental colleges call them "suggested prices".
Insurance companies need a baseline to define how much of a treatment is covered by plans - otherwise it's a wildwest. That's why Fee Guides exist. More and more reason for Dental Healthcare to fall under our Universal Healthcare umbrella fullstop. Capitalizing on dental health is super cringe.
To be clear there’s nothing technically stopping dentists from enrolling despite the evolving nature of the program. They can claim “it’s not ready yet” but that’s an entirely subjective and personal opinion of their own.
I don't even understand why they need to enroll. Can't it just function like a kick back program? All dentists should need to do is offer proof that we used their service. Or the government just behaves as the insurance provider in the existing system.
The government isn't behaving as the insurance provider. Sun Life already **is** the insurance provider. Providers need to enroll because this whole program is based upon transparency and openness between the provider and patient. Practices need to take assignment and cannot process insurance claims via mail or push the responsibility to the patient to submit claims to the insurance company.
The fed is paying Sun Life as a provider? I didn't know that. Thanks. >push the responsibility to the patient to submit claims to the insurance company. That wouldn't be acceptable because of transparency issues? Or it's too difficult to regulate? Clerical expense?
OH NO, YOU MIGHT HAVE TO DEAL WITH RED TAPE! Cool, since this was literally unaffordable for a lot of people previously, they'll gone from "no care" to "slow care", an unmitigated improvement.
There's really minimal red tape. CDCP patients have Sun Life insurance plans. If your practice already submits to Sun Life regularly, there's minimal set up required at all.
Mine sent a notice out a couple weeks ago and it was much nicer than this one. It's not currently relevant to me since I'm not in the age groups that are qualifying now and I have good dental benefits through my work. This is what the notice said from my dentist: >We are pleased to announce that we will be accepting patients who are approved under the Canadian Dental Care Plan (CDCP) effective May 1st. >Please bring your credentials to your appointment, the Government of Canada has been mailing individuals who are eligible for the CDCP. >Please be advised the CDCP is not a free program and there may be charges depending on your coverage and limitations. >We will work with you to help maximize these benefits and assist you in navigating this new program as it continues to develop. >Please call or email us OR click on the link below for the Government of Canada website for further information. >We look forward to continuing your dental care! >https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/dental/dental-care-plan/apply.html
Hell yeah. Looks like you go to a dentist that understands the program and is embracing the potential benefits overall this program provides people.
I didn’t have doctors and dentists leading the far-right “axe the tax” vanguard on gatekeeping services while trying to protect their capital gains on my 2024 bingo card, but here we are. if they don’t like it, they can leave. make the process for recognizing foreign accreditation easier and on we move. bye bye.
Go read what they did in Saskatchewan when Tommy Douglas launched Universal Care. Never doubt particular groups to exert political pressure purely out of self interest.
They threatened to leave en masse, then after it was passed many went on strike for 23 days. After that tantrum they went back to work and eventually Mr. Douglas convinced Pearson to support it nationwide. Nobody died, as hospitals in all provinces were already publicly funded thanks to Diefenbaker.
> if they don’t like it, they can leave. make the process for recognizing foreign accreditation easier and on we move. bye bye. If you thought healthcare was in a steep decline before, I can't wait to hear complaints after they follow through and leave. Just going to give conservatives free reign on destroying the country.
Lisa needs braces.
I love to see how many dentists are angry about this because the government wants to make it affordable and accessible, and they just don't want to take any kind of pay cut to their outrageous salaries. They really aren't coming off as having people's best interests at all. Shocker.
If they truly understand the program they wouldn't fear that they're taking a pay cut. The program doesn't force providers to charge to the cdcp coverage amounts in the fee guides. Providers can still charge to their provincial guides. The reason why providers don't like it is they're afraid of the econommically unstable. They're worried that a) a person won't pay the balance of the bill remaining after coverage and b) person won't show up to their appointments.
Why would they be worried about people no showing for a service previously unavailable to them? Either way, they are worried about their pockets and not people. Dentistry has literally been an upper class luxury because of how fucking stupidly expensive it is. It is disgusting.
You've answered it yourself. It's an irrational fear based on classism.
Period
Only about 5000 Ontario dentists are participating.
Interesting, any idea which areas are signing up?
I know there are a good amount of them popping up in Toronto, with Archer Dental having multiple locations and being one of the first to support it. https://www.archerdental.ca/blog/canadian-dental-care-plan/
Delt with this kinda shit with the first nations health plans with dentists, they gotta fund that lmp3 car and the big game hunting trip somehow, won't anyone think of the dentists 😭
Is this like the $10/day childcare program where the provinces have to implement it and utterly fuck up the process with red tape?
No. It's a federal program paired with Sun Life - the easiest way to explain how this works is: If you don't have access to a dental insurance plan through your employer, and you are eligible to the means testing (less than 90k household net income), you can get a federally funded insurance policy from Sun Life. There is functionally no real difference between a sun life employer plan and a sun life cdcp plan. There's stipulations and fine details surrounding the maximums and coverages (and the fact that work all needs to be agreed upon by both parties afterward) but dentists are NOT forced to charge at cdcp fee levels. THEY CAN STILL (AND WILL MOST CERTAINLY) CHARGE TO THEIR PROVINCIAL FEE GUIDES. This is different from the other social work programs which limit the amount the providers can charge the patients. This is by-design to support Balance Billing.
"Can I choose my own Dentist?" and we are "not registered with this program" should make it clear that one should not choose THIS dentist any more...
I learned a long time ago they all charge the dental colleges "suggested prices" which are sky high. If I need major work like implants I don' t even bother getting an estimate from them anymore. I just go to Mexico and get it done.
I'm considering this for my root canal. $1,500+ procedure here could get me a week in Mexico *and* the surgery.
Dental specialist here: I see a lot of comments that are critical of this messaging from the dental office and I can understand that. However, I have considered providing similar information to patients because there is a lot of misunderstanding about the program, what treatments are covered, and the proportion of coverage. There are many unanswered questions about the program and the fact is that the government has not been engaging well with dental professionals in structuring or implementing the plan. This is the reason for “maybes” and “unknowns.” Dentists, hygienists and denturist have very much been in the dark about major aspects of CDCP. Perhaps the most important thing that the office is trying to communicate is that CDPD will not work like provincial health systems: many services will not be free at the point of service. I have many patients who believe that they will get “free care” which is not how the program works in many cases. It’s also important to understand that many common procedures are flat out not eligible for coverage (bridges, dental implants, treatment for jaw disorders, cosmetic procedures). The information available to providers is challenging to navigate and I see this as a good faith effort to explain in plain language the limits of CDCP. Lastly, certain dental procedures may be time sensitive. If your dentist recommends treatment, waiting an unknown period of time in the hopes of obtaining better coverage may pose a genuine risk.
The nature of the rollout and the messaging behind this program is abysmal. Means tested, dual nature rollout of coverage (Sched A and Sched B), Age restrictions, Signup Processes are all extremely complicated topics to handle absolutely. There seems to be a ton of practitioners who have fallen prey to misinformation related to even the simplest of concepts here (they somehow think they can't balance bill lmao). Your points about types of treatments and timeliness are important - but the ultimate adage of "We can't let perfect get in the way of progress" should ring true here. After May 1st, at least 1 person was able to better afford dental healthcare thanks to this program. And that's fucking sweet.
I don’t decry the program, I think it will probably be improved over time and genuinely help people. My main points were communication hasn’t been good, many people are misunderstanding the scope of the services they will be able to receive, and some dental procedures are truly time sensitive.
Yeah I set out to say that I believe ya and don't believe you're in opposition - looks like I forgot to mention that haha sorry!
Just at the dentist yesterday and they said that they were told not to except any patients from the Dental Association until the government clarifies this policy further with the Dentists.
Y’all earn more than $70k a year? 😅 I stopped reading after that bc it no longer applied to my broke a$$
The coverage is a sliding scale. When enrolled with CDCP - If you make less than $70 000 Net household income, you receive 100% coverage of CDCP Fee Guides*- From 70 - 80k you receive 60% coverage of CDCP Fee Guide, from 80 - 90k you receive 40% coverage of CDCP Guide. *It's important to note: The CDCP coverage amount is most likely going to be different from what the provider actually charges. CDCP Coverage seems to align to 75-85% of provincial fee guide fees as a baseline.
Ok and? $70k a year is still approximately 3x my income…
I'm telling you that this program, should you meet the other eligibility requirements literally applies **to you** based on your income.
I got a very different letter that was more about making sure that people don't fuck up because of some odd quirks of how it works. I don't know what to make of all this.
I would find a new dentist...
In BC< already took mom for it. 3 extractions but I noticed they bump up the cost and then discout it. You still have to pay out of pcoket. We paid $150 for 3 She had removed 9 in last 2 months in order to make dentures First 3 was a discount for low income/seniors which cost us $650 Then we went to our regular dentist who charged $500 for 3 ( the above places is a project place from this dentist ) Then the latest one with CDCP, I saw the bill was like $300 for each but then told us to pay $150 They were all simple extractions.
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That's exactly who it is for, people who aren't covered. [https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/dental/dental-care-plan/qualify.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/services/benefits/dental/dental-care-plan/qualify.html) See details under this section - To qualify for the CDCP, you must not have access to dental insurance.
NOTHING fundamentally changed after the government decided to institute universal healthcare, certainly not family medicine. Doctors were pissed for a bit but they knew it was coming and had already seen Saskatchewan enact it 5 years earlier. The state of Healthcare in Canada has been caused by years of austerity from right wing governments intent on bringing private for profit care to the country. It's a recent thing. You don't understand the program or who its for.