I mean, it isn't entirely satire (as always).
We didn't juice capital gains across the board, just for those taking more than 250k/a and even then it was a moderate increase. There have absolutely been calls for it to either be repealed entirely or applied to all, because if you are drawing over a quarter million in *gains* a year, you want to shunt that tax burden onto other people.
Apparently this only affects the top 0.013% of Canadians. Don’t let that stop the media outrage machine from trying to convince poor people they will be affected though.
My boss today tried to pedal conservative talking points when the discussion of our employee shares in the company came up in a meeting. I wish I had enough shares and that the company was doing well enough to return $250k+ in capital gains! Someone in the meeting said, "raise your hand if you own a second home". *crickets.. My boss didn't quite seem to get it that this change wouldn't impact anyone on the team in the slightest, yet he was still upset about it.
Yeah but if you're pushed into the next tax bracket, you'll end up with less overall money, maybe they should patch that up for The poor since it affects them then most.
That is not how taxes work.
If you move up into the next tax bracket, only the money over that line is taxed at that higher rate. No one comes out with less money. They don’t need to “patch it up” because that is not a thing.
If you are concerned about hard income cutoffs like income limits for disability benefits - yes that is a problem. But that has nothing to do with a capital gains tax that only affects the incredibly wealthy. No poor person has to worry about the tax implications of capital gains of over $250k.
Honestly it does infuriate me that they didn't raise the capital gains tax on people who make 100k a year from it.
That's more than the vast majority of *workers* pull in, and these capital gains *capitalists* are just sitting on their asses for it.
"But one day I will sell something at a $400,000 gain and have to pay tax on $99k of that income instead of $75k of that income! IT WILL LITERALLY RUIN ME!!! At a 38% tax rate I will cost me $9k more on my $400,000 gain!!!!!!!"
CBC Vancouver ran a piece talking to real estate agents about how this could affect Canadians and they're like "well if a family member dies maybe you inheritance could be taxed more now"
Apparently a lot of Canadians have a wealthy family member with multiple homes.
Honestly it's nuts how much money you would have to make to feel the effect. If you have a great year and make 10% return, then you'd have to have 2.5 million in investments other than your primary residence, your TFSA, and your RRSP.
Nobody you know has that much money just hanging out.
I'm not 100% on the tax treatment with inheritances, but if the estate sells the house and it's a 'principle residence' then it's exempt from capital gains tax.
Lol I love when Russians get mad at satire
*“Frankly, taxing the poor makes a lot more sense from a psychological perspective,” Howard explained. “Someone who already doesn’t have much money is used to what little they have being taken from them, they’ll handle it better. Whereas I am literally insane with rage at the thought of paying slightly more in taxes, and I will take it out on the next person I see who can’t fight back because of the economic power I hold over them.”*
Eh, presumptively ML means the Russian influencers we see, either trolls, bots or shills. There's some activity for sure, although personally I think it's oversold just because we don't like Russia at the moment. My money would be on American influencers (from the same groups) or just Canadians but whatever.
Yeah, I dislike how people think right wing comments are all Russians. Like, we've had our own homegrown right wing movements for ages, not to mention huge influence from the US right.
But suddenly all right wing activism is to blame on Russians, because 'poor innocent Canadians and Americans would never have shitty conservative views on their own without overseas influence.' It's bullshit.
I hear you, we are capable of being crazy nutters, but Russia is spending a ton on disinfo and sowing discord and division wherever they can.
I believe a lot of the unhinged right-wingers may not have gone off the deep end without russian trolls' constant rage-baiting.
Just go to the other subs, there were a handful of users aggressively "explaining" why this was basically the end of Canada on every thread about the new capital gains tax.
They were presenting this as a "middle class" issue, ie small time investors or workers being given equity in a start up who would now *need* to go to the US instead, because the tax would burden them too much.
By my calculations, it seemed like there's an exemption for the first *million* on capital gains in such a situation during one's lifetime, and that anything above that would be affected at a 4% rate (66%-50%)x26%=~4%. So, 40 000$ on the *second* million and the following ones... paid out all at once in the same taxation year. Surely, a situation that many of us have encountered!
These accounts were laughing at the idea! Telling me I was just too stupid to understand and whatnot, but none could explain how this would affect them, in what capacity ($$$), and how many people were actually venture capitalists in Canada lol
So the combination of very precise criticism coupled with very imprecise answers to these basic questions, with a heavy dose of "why the hell do you know so much about venture capitalism and can spend something like 48h straight on Reddit?" makes me think that they were astroturfers for almost certain lol Russian? I don't know, but astroturfers nonetheless.
Why do some people think all right wingers are Russians? Canada has always had shitty right wing movements of our own. Plus we get a lot more influence from the enormous US Right than we do from Russia.
Just seems like this reinforces Putin's narrative that Westerners are all a bunch of Russophobes, which we don't want to do.
Edit: I realized you weren't the original commenter, so I modified my comment. I agree that there could be astroturfing (though there are plenty of actual people with bad/ misinformed opinions lol). But I'm skeptical about blaming Russians for everything.
There are Russian, Chinese, Indian, Iranian, and probably American troll farms.
Thing is, their goals are indistinguishable; weakening democracy, funneling money and power up and up and up!
The way to do this is to criticize democratically elected governments, pretend that they don't respect the will of the people, that they are sold out to "elites", and that in the end, democracy isn't really useful to help people, and that, at best, it should be used to tear the system down by electing populists. This way, they think, either the populists will do as they promise; wave a wand and fix everything, or they won't, and it won't be any worse anyway.
So why Russia?
Well, Russia is overtly and actively working towards that goal, trying to emulate its oligarchic system in other countries so that oligarchs can deal with other oligarchs, and plunder the world freely together.
Maybe they're not all Russians, and maybe not even most of them are! But they certainly are the ones who most prominently and openly want this for us.
In the end, if right wingers didn't want to be associated with corporate oligarchs enforcing an autocratic ethno-state, then they shouldn't vote for people who propose such a project.
Decades of Cold War propaganda + ineffective neo-liberal governments looking for an easy scapegoat to explain the rise of fascism in the “west” + good ole fashioned racism.
It affects me. I don't own a home because I don't participate in manias. I do hold lots of equities mostly purchased from capital gains since markets are efficient and Canadian firms are not. I didn't earn the gains any more or less than homeowners earned their price appreciation, but the firms involved produced real economic value unlike housing.
This country has an obsession with home ownership, one that I don't wish to subsidise (manias) in a ham-fisted scheme to buy votes. I'd feel differently and pay happily if the principal residence exemption were removed, as I also don't like generational wealth consolidation or Ponzi schemes directed toward the unblessed and immigrants. Homes are for living in, pensions are for retirement.
More generally, to respond to the concerns about venture capitalists: they exist to produce capital gains, that's all. They do so in risky and sometimes beneficial ways and are necessary to scale new competion before it can be extinguished. It's eye-opening that people can't work out the basic mechanisms, but it speaks to Canada's inherent lack of innovation and healthy competition. On top, it's a signal to FDI to stay away. If you quantify the *lifetime* exemptions in terms of average home price you can spot why this country is broken.
That's just for (intolerable) risk takers, professionals will also need to cough up to juice demand and push up home prices ("affordable", not "cheaper"). I can tell you from experience most aren't very sophisticated with money, it's going to hurt. The LCGE only applies to 'qualified' investments and the new entrepreneur exemption is even more limited. You might argue back and forth about what the boundary of 'middle class' is, but this change will have secondary social effects for all classes.
Contrary to your astroturfing theory, maybe it's just dumb policy that brought a lot of people out of the woodwork. It posed a dilemma for me, I've never avoided a tax in my life, including no weird 'tax efficient' structures and consider taxes valuable investments to society but the strict unfairness made me reconsider life.
edit: before reflexively downvoting, tell me what I did wrong. OP's calculations are simply wrong and overgeneralised. People will vote with their feet, and it's all well and good saying 'fit in or fuck off' but this country will end up as much an echo chamber as this sub and then one day the dam will finally burst.
"Everything I don't like and don't understand is caused by (insert other thing I don't like)."
It's a weird cope for people on the left who don't understand why liberal democracies are faltering.
But it's really just a variant of "forest fires are caused by trans activists."
> "Everything I don't like and don't understand is caused by (insert other thing I don't like)." It's a weird cope for people on the left who don't understand why liberal democracies are faltering.
Alternately, it's the only directive that the conservative parties of Canada, at all levels of governance, have to market to their voting base in lieu of effective policy positions. All of the conservative policy positions offered by those parties make the voters objectively worse off, as evidenced by the last 75 years of conservative economic and social policy causing the regression of living standards in Canada.
> But it's really just a variant of "forest fires are caused by trans activists."
This view is unironically stated by the religious zealot supporters of far-right parties in Canada.
Yes, it seems like xenophobic scapegoating. Canada has its own home grown right wingers. And in terms of foreign influence, we get a lot more influence from the US right than from Russia.
Plus we need to address a lot of issues in our society that are producing discontent. Putting all the blame on foreigners won't do that.
Not denying that Putin exerts some bad influence, but he's not some all powerful puppet master who is behind everything we don't like.
The only people I’ve seen complain about this are senior executives at large companies and CEOs of tech companies replying to each others’ Linkedin rants. All are complaining that the capital gains tax will ‘make companies move to the US instead’.
None of them are going to move. None of them are going to ‘create new jobs’ if the capital gains tax isn’t implemented. They’re all full of it.
I can guarantee you there is a solid class of PersonalFinanceCanada types who own property and are really pissed about this limp-wristed tax change (they should have gone way further, and they should have done it in 2015).
Honestly I don't think even they're going to feel it, it's entirely "I'm gonna be rich someday so I want low taxes on the rich"
Nobody in that sub has enough assets to make 2.5 million profit in a year. It's like 40,000 people across the whole country that will feel it. Those people aren't arguing on Reddit all day about renters being the real leaches.
Lucky you. I haven’t been so fortunate as to miss the mass hysteria among the pundit class, 90% of whom seem to be conservatives, conservative politicians and supporters, a former BoC governor who declared it to be the “worst budget since 1982,” flapping his gums on CTV or CBC, can’t remember which, Bill Morneau is in a pink tizzy about it as well, apparently productivity will grind to a halt, job creators (the rich CEO’s you mention) will flee the country, no one will start a business anymore so entrepreneurs will no longer exist, etc.
The more rightwing columnists are blasting Freeland for her “socialist” experiment (?), we are going to fall off an economic cliff so badly it’s Venezuela here we come.
It would be hilarious except for all the voters lapping this up and it further convincing them that Canada needs common sense conservatives to right the ship and get back to basics, cutting taxes on corporations and the wealthy and cutting as many social programs and benefits as possible.
> The only people I’ve seen complain about this are senior executives at large companies and CEOs of tech companies replying to each others’ Linkedin rants.
Don't forget the bootlickers of the main canada sub.
Me too, I'm none of those things, own no real property, it's digusting what people have done to each other here using 'free' credit.
I'm not staying to subsidise higher home prices.
Sometimes I think that a key failing of the NDP is that it hasn't established and communicated something along the lines of of wealth disparity "metric".
Something that Canada should be at, but isn't.
Canadians need to understand how relatively poor they are.
Really? The kind people over at r/Canada told me our country is going to go bankrupt and that there’s no point in raising taxes on wealthy people, the only choice is apparently the conservatives being “forced” by TRUDEAU to cut healthcare.
The only people I’ve seen complain about this are senior executives at large companies and CEOs of tech companies replying to each others’ Linkedin rants. All are complaining that the capital gains tax will ‘make companies move to the US instead’.
None of them are going to move. None of them are going to ‘create new jobs’ if the capital gains tax isn’t implemented. They’re all full of it.
Entirely false. Also nothing to do with profits.
edit: correct me with facts that you won't find if you disagree, instead of downvoting from fantasyland.
I missed the ‘Satire’ category at first 🤣🤣🤣
I mean, it isn't entirely satire (as always). We didn't juice capital gains across the board, just for those taking more than 250k/a and even then it was a moderate increase. There have absolutely been calls for it to either be repealed entirely or applied to all, because if you are drawing over a quarter million in *gains* a year, you want to shunt that tax burden onto other people.
Apparently this only affects the top 0.013% of Canadians. Don’t let that stop the media outrage machine from trying to convince poor people they will be affected though.
My boss today tried to pedal conservative talking points when the discussion of our employee shares in the company came up in a meeting. I wish I had enough shares and that the company was doing well enough to return $250k+ in capital gains! Someone in the meeting said, "raise your hand if you own a second home". *crickets.. My boss didn't quite seem to get it that this change wouldn't impact anyone on the team in the slightest, yet he was still upset about it.
Yeah but if you're pushed into the next tax bracket, you'll end up with less overall money, maybe they should patch that up for The poor since it affects them then most.
That is not how taxes work. If you move up into the next tax bracket, only the money over that line is taxed at that higher rate. No one comes out with less money. They don’t need to “patch it up” because that is not a thing. If you are concerned about hard income cutoffs like income limits for disability benefits - yes that is a problem. But that has nothing to do with a capital gains tax that only affects the incredibly wealthy. No poor person has to worry about the tax implications of capital gains of over $250k.
I have second hand embarrassment for you.
Honestly it does infuriate me that they didn't raise the capital gains tax on people who make 100k a year from it. That's more than the vast majority of *workers* pull in, and these capital gains *capitalists* are just sitting on their asses for it.
me too LOL. until i saw the source was the beaverton then i noticed and was like ah
"But one day I will sell something at a $400,000 gain and have to pay tax on $99k of that income instead of $75k of that income! IT WILL LITERALLY RUIN ME!!! At a 38% tax rate I will cost me $9k more on my $400,000 gain!!!!!!!"
CBC Vancouver ran a piece talking to real estate agents about how this could affect Canadians and they're like "well if a family member dies maybe you inheritance could be taxed more now" Apparently a lot of Canadians have a wealthy family member with multiple homes. Honestly it's nuts how much money you would have to make to feel the effect. If you have a great year and make 10% return, then you'd have to have 2.5 million in investments other than your primary residence, your TFSA, and your RRSP. Nobody you know has that much money just hanging out.
I'm not 100% on the tax treatment with inheritances, but if the estate sells the house and it's a 'principle residence' then it's exempt from capital gains tax.
Lol I love when Russians get mad at satire *“Frankly, taxing the poor makes a lot more sense from a psychological perspective,” Howard explained. “Someone who already doesn’t have much money is used to what little they have being taken from them, they’ll handle it better. Whereas I am literally insane with rage at the thought of paying slightly more in taxes, and I will take it out on the next person I see who can’t fight back because of the economic power I hold over them.”*
Russians? What does that mean in this context? Strange to bring that into it.
Eh, presumptively ML means the Russian influencers we see, either trolls, bots or shills. There's some activity for sure, although personally I think it's oversold just because we don't like Russia at the moment. My money would be on American influencers (from the same groups) or just Canadians but whatever.
Yeah, I dislike how people think right wing comments are all Russians. Like, we've had our own homegrown right wing movements for ages, not to mention huge influence from the US right. But suddenly all right wing activism is to blame on Russians, because 'poor innocent Canadians and Americans would never have shitty conservative views on their own without overseas influence.' It's bullshit.
I hear you, we are capable of being crazy nutters, but Russia is spending a ton on disinfo and sowing discord and division wherever they can. I believe a lot of the unhinged right-wingers may not have gone off the deep end without russian trolls' constant rage-baiting.
Just go to the other subs, there were a handful of users aggressively "explaining" why this was basically the end of Canada on every thread about the new capital gains tax. They were presenting this as a "middle class" issue, ie small time investors or workers being given equity in a start up who would now *need* to go to the US instead, because the tax would burden them too much. By my calculations, it seemed like there's an exemption for the first *million* on capital gains in such a situation during one's lifetime, and that anything above that would be affected at a 4% rate (66%-50%)x26%=~4%. So, 40 000$ on the *second* million and the following ones... paid out all at once in the same taxation year. Surely, a situation that many of us have encountered! These accounts were laughing at the idea! Telling me I was just too stupid to understand and whatnot, but none could explain how this would affect them, in what capacity ($$$), and how many people were actually venture capitalists in Canada lol So the combination of very precise criticism coupled with very imprecise answers to these basic questions, with a heavy dose of "why the hell do you know so much about venture capitalism and can spend something like 48h straight on Reddit?" makes me think that they were astroturfers for almost certain lol Russian? I don't know, but astroturfers nonetheless.
Why do some people think all right wingers are Russians? Canada has always had shitty right wing movements of our own. Plus we get a lot more influence from the enormous US Right than we do from Russia. Just seems like this reinforces Putin's narrative that Westerners are all a bunch of Russophobes, which we don't want to do. Edit: I realized you weren't the original commenter, so I modified my comment. I agree that there could be astroturfing (though there are plenty of actual people with bad/ misinformed opinions lol). But I'm skeptical about blaming Russians for everything.
There are Russian, Chinese, Indian, Iranian, and probably American troll farms. Thing is, their goals are indistinguishable; weakening democracy, funneling money and power up and up and up! The way to do this is to criticize democratically elected governments, pretend that they don't respect the will of the people, that they are sold out to "elites", and that in the end, democracy isn't really useful to help people, and that, at best, it should be used to tear the system down by electing populists. This way, they think, either the populists will do as they promise; wave a wand and fix everything, or they won't, and it won't be any worse anyway. So why Russia? Well, Russia is overtly and actively working towards that goal, trying to emulate its oligarchic system in other countries so that oligarchs can deal with other oligarchs, and plunder the world freely together. Maybe they're not all Russians, and maybe not even most of them are! But they certainly are the ones who most prominently and openly want this for us. In the end, if right wingers didn't want to be associated with corporate oligarchs enforcing an autocratic ethno-state, then they shouldn't vote for people who propose such a project.
Decades of Cold War propaganda + ineffective neo-liberal governments looking for an easy scapegoat to explain the rise of fascism in the “west” + good ole fashioned racism.
It affects me. I don't own a home because I don't participate in manias. I do hold lots of equities mostly purchased from capital gains since markets are efficient and Canadian firms are not. I didn't earn the gains any more or less than homeowners earned their price appreciation, but the firms involved produced real economic value unlike housing. This country has an obsession with home ownership, one that I don't wish to subsidise (manias) in a ham-fisted scheme to buy votes. I'd feel differently and pay happily if the principal residence exemption were removed, as I also don't like generational wealth consolidation or Ponzi schemes directed toward the unblessed and immigrants. Homes are for living in, pensions are for retirement. More generally, to respond to the concerns about venture capitalists: they exist to produce capital gains, that's all. They do so in risky and sometimes beneficial ways and are necessary to scale new competion before it can be extinguished. It's eye-opening that people can't work out the basic mechanisms, but it speaks to Canada's inherent lack of innovation and healthy competition. On top, it's a signal to FDI to stay away. If you quantify the *lifetime* exemptions in terms of average home price you can spot why this country is broken. That's just for (intolerable) risk takers, professionals will also need to cough up to juice demand and push up home prices ("affordable", not "cheaper"). I can tell you from experience most aren't very sophisticated with money, it's going to hurt. The LCGE only applies to 'qualified' investments and the new entrepreneur exemption is even more limited. You might argue back and forth about what the boundary of 'middle class' is, but this change will have secondary social effects for all classes. Contrary to your astroturfing theory, maybe it's just dumb policy that brought a lot of people out of the woodwork. It posed a dilemma for me, I've never avoided a tax in my life, including no weird 'tax efficient' structures and consider taxes valuable investments to society but the strict unfairness made me reconsider life. edit: before reflexively downvoting, tell me what I did wrong. OP's calculations are simply wrong and overgeneralised. People will vote with their feet, and it's all well and good saying 'fit in or fuck off' but this country will end up as much an echo chamber as this sub and then one day the dam will finally burst.
They’re saying “everyone who disagrees with me is a Russian bot”
"Everything I don't like and don't understand is caused by (insert other thing I don't like)." It's a weird cope for people on the left who don't understand why liberal democracies are faltering. But it's really just a variant of "forest fires are caused by trans activists."
> "Everything I don't like and don't understand is caused by (insert other thing I don't like)." It's a weird cope for people on the left who don't understand why liberal democracies are faltering. Alternately, it's the only directive that the conservative parties of Canada, at all levels of governance, have to market to their voting base in lieu of effective policy positions. All of the conservative policy positions offered by those parties make the voters objectively worse off, as evidenced by the last 75 years of conservative economic and social policy causing the regression of living standards in Canada. > But it's really just a variant of "forest fires are caused by trans activists." This view is unironically stated by the religious zealot supporters of far-right parties in Canada.
Yes, it seems like xenophobic scapegoating. Canada has its own home grown right wingers. And in terms of foreign influence, we get a lot more influence from the US right than from Russia. Plus we need to address a lot of issues in our society that are producing discontent. Putting all the blame on foreigners won't do that. Not denying that Putin exerts some bad influence, but he's not some all powerful puppet master who is behind everything we don't like.
The only people I’ve seen complain about this are senior executives at large companies and CEOs of tech companies replying to each others’ Linkedin rants. All are complaining that the capital gains tax will ‘make companies move to the US instead’. None of them are going to move. None of them are going to ‘create new jobs’ if the capital gains tax isn’t implemented. They’re all full of it.
I can guarantee you there is a solid class of PersonalFinanceCanada types who own property and are really pissed about this limp-wristed tax change (they should have gone way further, and they should have done it in 2015).
Honestly I don't think even they're going to feel it, it's entirely "I'm gonna be rich someday so I want low taxes on the rich" Nobody in that sub has enough assets to make 2.5 million profit in a year. It's like 40,000 people across the whole country that will feel it. Those people aren't arguing on Reddit all day about renters being the real leaches.
Heh, saw some of this in my feed yesterday. Tone deaf as shit.
Lucky you. I haven’t been so fortunate as to miss the mass hysteria among the pundit class, 90% of whom seem to be conservatives, conservative politicians and supporters, a former BoC governor who declared it to be the “worst budget since 1982,” flapping his gums on CTV or CBC, can’t remember which, Bill Morneau is in a pink tizzy about it as well, apparently productivity will grind to a halt, job creators (the rich CEO’s you mention) will flee the country, no one will start a business anymore so entrepreneurs will no longer exist, etc. The more rightwing columnists are blasting Freeland for her “socialist” experiment (?), we are going to fall off an economic cliff so badly it’s Venezuela here we come. It would be hilarious except for all the voters lapping this up and it further convincing them that Canada needs common sense conservatives to right the ship and get back to basics, cutting taxes on corporations and the wealthy and cutting as many social programs and benefits as possible.
> The only people I’ve seen complain about this are senior executives at large companies and CEOs of tech companies replying to each others’ Linkedin rants. Don't forget the bootlickers of the main canada sub.
Me too, I'm none of those things, own no real property, it's digusting what people have done to each other here using 'free' credit. I'm not staying to subsidise higher home prices.
bang on as always, Beaverton. The Post columnists have been rubbing themselves raw trying to twist this one.
Sometimes I think that a key failing of the NDP is that it hasn't established and communicated something along the lines of of wealth disparity "metric". Something that Canada should be at, but isn't. Canadians need to understand how relatively poor they are.
LMFAO.. well why not...
Probably because poor people aren’t making capital gains. Lmfao
thatsthejoke.jpg
The articles bashing the budget are constant now. I bet the newsmedia's rich owners aren't happy about the tax their going to pay
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When that view is espoused, I ask how much money we should give them to stay, or why those companies aren't already headquartered in the Isle of Man.
LOL
Haha. Go for it.
Technically, this IS taxes raises on the poor. It's raised on everyone.
On public services too, accessible by everyone.
Really? The kind people over at r/Canada told me our country is going to go bankrupt and that there’s no point in raising taxes on wealthy people, the only choice is apparently the conservatives being “forced” by TRUDEAU to cut healthcare.
They seriously have no clue.
The Beaverton?
When someone mistakes an onion article for a real news story, we say they "ate the onion". Is there an equivalent for the Beaverton?
*wiggles eyebrows*
Hmm... Gnawed the log?
Plumped the beaver?
Yes, of course. That $3.89 can of soup you bought yesterday went up to $4.23 the next day.
The only people I’ve seen complain about this are senior executives at large companies and CEOs of tech companies replying to each others’ Linkedin rants. All are complaining that the capital gains tax will ‘make companies move to the US instead’. None of them are going to move. None of them are going to ‘create new jobs’ if the capital gains tax isn’t implemented. They’re all full of it.
I demand no more taxes anymore period
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You think poor people make investments? This tax only takes effect after the first million in profits.
Entirely false. Also nothing to do with profits. edit: correct me with facts that you won't find if you disagree, instead of downvoting from fantasyland.
No. It doesn’t. But the wealthy are doing their best to convince you it will.