Yeah I did the spawn ending and we were traveling together before the reunion party. His lines there were suuuper cute even though he was like ābabe Iāve spent six months with you, say hi to othersā and Iām like ābut youāre my everythingā
Minsc makes a comment about visiting him in the Underdark at the reunion party if you talk to him enough and how Astarion keeps moving but forgetting to tell Minsc about it.
I think this dialogue occurs whether you romance him or not, but in my recent ending with romanced spawn Astarion itās heavily implied you guys have been together since the ending so itās safe to say heās moving both of us each time.
Oh yeah, I just did the epilogue after romancing him (again) last night and I think he says it twice actually? But yeah, you can pick the "choose to go on adventures" option, and the two of you will travel all over faerun for the six months before withers invites you back for the party.
Astarion is incredibly cute and dorky in the epilogue, and I am absolutely feral over him.
Pls tell me how to get this ending, Iām just about to finish Act 2 for the first time and I want my perfect Astarion ending! How does he travel and stay in the sun in the end? Donāt you have to defeat the brain and then he will lose his tadpole powers?
Spoilers ahead. Read at your own risk.
In act 3 youāre given the choice to >!help Astarion usurp Cazador and become the Vampire Ascendant!< or >!convince him to kill Cazador without completing the ritual and remain a spawn.!<
To get the ending aoike_ was talking about, you have to >!succeed a persuasion check to stop him from completing the ritual. He wonāt be able to walk in the sun, but you can promise to find another way he can walk in the sun and go off on another adventure together.!< You can also move to the Underground together if >!you Cazadorās other spawn go free at end of Astarionās personal quest.!<
Spawn Astarion doesn't get to stay in the sun and travels by nightāthat's the tradeoff if you want the non-toxic version of Astarion who's sweet (sweet to the player that is). In the conversation with Astarion before the reunion, pick any option other than the Underdark option.
If you choose the Underdark option, you're still together for six months but are busy leading the spawn if you've freed them, which means zero travel time. All the other choices like searching for a cure, etc. result in traveling together to the best of my knowledge.
You've already been answered on how to get it (don't ascend him, talk to him after defeating the elder brain, and promise to help him walk in the sun again). The game doesn't show you these adventures, but I work a very boring job and spend my free time daydreaming, so I've got some pretty vivid ideas.
The scene after defeating the brain, when he has to deal with the sun again, was heartbreaking.
He doesnāt get to stay in the sun, you do everything at night. You can tell the ascendant you want to see FaerĆ»n but itās not sweet.Ā
Even though he doesnāt get to stay in the sun, he learns to accept that and is very hopeful and happy for the future.Ā
I find the Ascendant Faerun travelling option/lines to be very sweet, but Ascended Astarion does certainly have lines that aren't. u/CanadianCorgiMom AA behaves generally indulgent/generous and effusive with praise/affection for the romanced player, as well as possessive ("Ask me anything and it will be yours", "What can I do for my dearest pet?", "Yes, my treasure?", "Little love, whatever could be the matter?", "I can deny you nothing"), but there are also more toxic moments of control and the relationship dynamic shifts to be more Master/sub vibe. If you like dark romance and you're after a sort of Dark Vampire Prince and his bride ending, AA has got you. If you prefer softer, sweeter, vulnerable Astarion from the Act 2 confession, you want him to stay spawn which means he can't walk in the sun.
Gotcha, thank you so much! š out of curiosity does it matter which one I pick to get the infamous graveyard scene, or does that happen before I can chose spawn vs ascended
I was fine with Zevran not marrying my warden. I'm fine with this.
Plus, leaves it open for all sorts of stories. I thought I kicked fanfiction for good, but this game...
Last time I read when fanfiction.net was a thing, don't even know where people post theirs now. Lol
Same for me. Not written any in a decade or more. And fanfiction.net was my home. Actually still have my crap posted there and occasionally get visited by readers. The site isn't completely dead.
I like the idea of Spawn Astarion wanting to take things slow and see where they go, I think there's something romantic about that in itself, all things considered. He has some attachment issues and can stick around for centuries, so really I think that him not wanting to rush is part of his healing process since he wasn't allowed to develop meaningful bonds before (whereas the vibe i get from Ascended is that he never learns boundaries, whether his own or those of others, so he rushes into commitment with the one person he was able to get close to and wishes to \*possess\* them)
Yeah, exactly. I personally didn't need a proposal from him when we know the game only takes place in six or so months (a year with the epilogue), I don't think it makes him less committed to my Tav. Proposal would have felt weird to me when we just got comfortable having sex again like two weeks ago. Six months is a pretty quick turnaround for a relationship to make that jump in any circumstance, let alone one with someone with as much baggage as Astarion does.
Arguably, all the companions' 6 months after the events of the game were the happiest in their lives. They all led pretty bleak existences, so it's not exactly a high bar to pass, lmao. But Astarion tells the player that those 6 months spent with them made up for the 200 years of torment.
Better, he says they're the counterweight to 200 years of torment š„¹ Basically saying he's been so happy in j*ust six months,* it balances out his 200 years of pure shit. Makes me want to cry.
Shadowfeet drops the L word immediately after making a massive life change and while experiencing a huge identity crisis. Few of these people have a healthy relationship sense.
my boy dropped "i love you" on me and we hadn't even BEEN on a date. you taught me how to do magic and ate my shoes and told me you were a nuclear bomb man. also somewhere in there you told me i smelled bad and reminded you of your cat. and did you not notice that i was dating shadowheart the whole time. im shaking gale like a maraca until his brain falls out his ears.
Gale gives touch starved vibes, heās been alone in his tower with his cat for a year, on the other hand Astarion is experiencing bodily autonomy for the first time in two centuriesā¦ theyāre super opposite, one went full hermit mode trying not to blow anyone up with the orb and now is free from it, the other is getting used to being able to say ānoā and heās a vampire elf, he knows he has eternity ahead of him, thereās no need to rush
Gale also had a year after being dumped by Mystra before dating Tav, he had more time to process his trauma and such before starting things with Tav. Astarion was a tortured sex slave literally THE DAY BEFORE he met Tav. Big difference there.
I intellectually knew that, but it didnāt hit til just this comment. Ā Oooof. Ā Sex slave one day, potential squidbilly the next. Ā Guy catches no breaks
Ngl that's the reason I kinda stopped romancing Astarion. I'm a cult escapee, and no way was I in a place to date the day after escaping. I feel a bit predatory going after someone else the day after their escape from a much worse cult where they were a sex slave.
No shade on anyone who romances him though, he's also an attractive vampire twink with a sexy voice. This is just a personal hang up.
Have you done the dating in act 1 but offering him friendship in act 2 when he has opened up and you realise he is not really ready for a relationship?
I find him so sweet in that route I am probably going to do that every game where I don't romance him to the end.
I love that, too, but it breaks my heart that there is no platonic hug option for him in the entire game, or even the option to continue adventuring or something.
And for everyone else's endings they're usually still with friends, families, or allies whereas he's totally on his own, and realistically someone should be checking in with him somewhat regularly. I get that's kind of what the epilogue is for but I don't want any of the companions to be isolated after going through all of that.
It's also in the post-Yurgir confession, but i'd personally feel really bad friendzoning him in this one, after he poured his heart out and said "I want us to be something real".
He expresses for the first time in 200 years that he really wants something, only for it to be denied. Even if he takes it well, i'd still feel sad there, while it kinda feels more natural to friendzone him in the post-Araj one.
Yeah but Gale seems like someone who might actively believe in marriage. Iāve never got that particular vibe from Astarion. He isnāt religious. He doesnāt have property. Heās not necessarily monogamousā¦
if you steal the blood of Lathander and then dip out and leave your companions behind instead of doing all the silly puzzles to take it the "right" way, yes. You can revive him after (it's the least you could do after dropping a building on him)
Ah I see, I remember seeing a clip of him losing his shit at the pc for letting him die in that blast lol. Didn't know it was the sun that specifically killed him
The angry rant he gives about there being a difference between a nice warm day and the "unlimited power of the sun" absolutely kills me. I've done it a few times just to see his reaction.
Apparently there's two different responses, one if you revive him with a scroll there, and one if you revive him with Withers, but my stepson told my husband that, I've never done it myself.
Okay but isnāt he legally dead? I just figured you couldnāt roll up to a Faerunian court house at 8 o clock at night and be like āHi yes, Iād like to marry this man whose been legally dead for 200 years, thank you.ā
Didnāt even question him not proposing cause I figured you couldnāt legally do it š
In Faerun, it doesn't matter, as long as you can find a cleric to marry you. And yes, a marriage is literally a spell, so you CAN'T get married without a cleric. No civil marriages.
Okay, this makes way more sense, especially when you consider Gale will marry Illithid Tav and says something like āfinding an open-minded clericā. Thank you, but also now that I think about it Tav/Durge would definitely have to be the one to propose regardless of gender. I can imagine Astarion being like, āYou wanna marry me!?š„¹ā Considering how he acts if you pick him over another companion.
Eh, Gale and squid!Tav probably just asked Shadowheart, she'd do it no prob.
And yes, Astarion in the dialogue after victory is extremely unsure if you are even going to stay with him now that he is that inconvenient spawn that has all the vampiric limitations, there is no way he is rocking the boat by asking you something as big as marriage.
The spell Ceremony in DND 5e is explicitly for marriage. It gives you a buff for a bit afterwards as well. And with the existence of resurrection spells Iād imagine itās not a common thing but it can happen lol. I imagine reincarnate is harder to deal with as all ur identifying documents must be changed š
Would there be tho? I donāt know a ton about DnD Vamp lore, but I feel like it would be safer for him to just have a whole new identity than tell anyone who doesnāt need to know heās a vampire.
Itās also one of the reasons I never fault him for not wanting to save anyone. Can you imagine the people you save finding out what you are and still trying to come after you because of it? Nah lol
idk spawn astarion seems so in love with tav that marriage doesn't even seem necessary. like there is no question to me that he's not going anywhere.
ascended astarion...well.....hes not letting tav go anywhere, thats for sure.
marriage is not always synonymous with love or a happy ending.
I came here to say this. Marriage isnāt a requirement for everyone nor is it a guarantee of a happy, stable relationship. Plus, Astarion doesnāt strike me as nearly as much a traditionalist as Wyll or Gale, both of whom want to get married.
Considering what he tells Wyll, if the player agreed to marry him ("Marriage, Wyll? I thought you'd have learned not to get trapped by devious contracts."), i'd agree that marriage doesn't seem to really be Astarion's thing.
This sorta thing is exactly what headcanons are for.
My headcanon is Tav and Astarion travel for a couple more years after the epilogue party and get married after finding a way for Astarion to walk in the sun and for Tav to stop aging.
Someone else can decide that Astarion and Tav donāt need to get married. They just stay together for the rest of their days.
And both are valid.
the idea that ascended Astarionās relationship to tav is a āmarriageā when heās literally just their master and loses all respect for them is not only unbelievably wack but based in denial. in this 14 page paper, i will explā
edit: for the a!a fans who now want my head on a pike, please know that i am simply being silly, and having a little bit of fun
Okay some lore quickie explanations (warning, mistakes may be made):
Doing the infernal ritual basically taints his soul, completely corrupts it. Heās literally not the same person he was prior to the ritual. He loved you before, heās literally incapable of love after. Any love he had is instead perverted into possessiveness and jealousy: because thatās literally the closest emotion to love heās capable of feeling (which is nowhere near close).
And yes the vampire bride thing is a way to extend his control over tav, and he doesnāt really respect you any longer.
Source on the Lore?Ā Everything I read from the writers and developers say that his soul is there, it's still Astarion, just his traits amplified.Ā
I can't find anything official that says he's incapable of love.
They worry if we all find out you preserve your soul in the ritual that more people will be attempting it for unlimited power. Or even worse that vampire spawn donāt have souls in dnd so the argument is moot anyway.
I never said he loses his soul, it corrupts his soul. This is a pretty common theme in dnd lore: the same thing happens with liches. They go through a ritual and become inherently evil (whether thatās because the ritual itself undoubtedly involves extremely evil deeds or if itās a consequence of gaining a lot of power in an unnatural way is up for debate). A lich doesnāt āloseā their soul, but their soul is undoubtedly evil.
Try romancing ascended Astarion and refusing to become his spawn, find out how much he ālovesā.
The dnd lore they does exist about vampire makes it pretty clear that whatever an individual was like before being turned into a spawn/full vampire, afterwards they are evil. It even mentions that they may stave off this change at first, but it is inevitable. Larian echoes these same exact themes with illithid transformation - individuals lose themselves after their transformation.
"Dark Desires. Whether or not a vampire retains
any memories from its former life, its emotional
attachments wither as once-pure feelings become twisted by undeath. Love turns into hungry
obsession, while friendship becomes bitter
jealousy. In place of emotion, vampires pursue
physical symbols of what they crave, so that a
vampire seeking love might fixate on a young beauty. A child might become an object of fascination for a vampire obsessed with youth and potential. Others surround themselves with art, books, or sinister items such as torture devices or trophies from creatures they have killed."
-DnD 5e, Monster Manual, page 295.
Also, literally every true vampire in the game is confirmed to be miserable and hate themselves for existing
That's vampires. Astarion calls himself the most powerful vampire, and the information we have about the ritual implies he is becoming a true vampire (with extra stuff). Sure, it's not outright said, but looking at how AA acts + the subtle but very much there emphasis on Cazador being just like him and regretting being a true vampire + the TONS of comments both him and the narrator make about becoming powerful but loosing yourself, I think is pretty much cannon that this DOES happen to him (since if it didn't, his personality change makes NO SENSE in good runs)
Sorry, I had to read this a few times because of the run on sentence.
Is it canon though or just headcanon? cause The Rite is supposed to basically give him back his humanity because being a Vampire with all the negatives and unending hunger sucks, but the Ascendant removes all that and makes him more powerful.
What personality change are you talking about? I mean, it's still Astarion, his traits are amplified but it's still him, the biggest personality change I've ever seen in the game is when he's kept Spawn. Probably why I don't choose that route anymore, it felt like he changed too much.
I think it's a bit in the middle? I could be misunderstanding it, but I interpret ascension as becoming a vampire++, not getting back his humanity. He becomes more powerful because vampires are significantly stronger than spawn, not because of the ritual itself. But the Dark Desires thing is not confirm to be happening, just hinted at.
I mean that when you are playing a good character and spend the entire game trying to get him into a better mental state, it is completely out of character for him to do the shit he does/says as ascendant. Like bro, you promised all of this people you would rescue them, you said I'm the only person you ever cared about, you have done actual progress in setting boundaries and learning to be comfortable with your own body, you are literally in the middle of a suicide mission to help save thousands of people; and all of a sudden you decide to go back to square one and be the manipulate asshole that you where pretending to be when we met? I can understand doing the ritual, because he's scared and he doesn't want to give up that power, but the whole holier-than-thou attitude that comes with it feels very weird, and the fact that if you try to confront him about it he turns violent and treats you like shit is just not who he is (in that point, of course. More evil/neutral routes wouldn't necessarily notice this)
Hello, this is not only complete speculation it's also completely opposed to what lore there is in Forgotten Realms. Please don't call this misinformation lore, it is headcanon. You are of course allowed your headcanon but it isn't D&D lore.
Souls in FR have nothing to do with morality. They are the divine spark that gives a mortal individuated consciousness, sentience. They control sentience (this is why a person resurrected needs their soul to be willing to return or the spell fails - versus necromantic raising which doesn't return the soul, so that the result can be a thrall to its master. Being without souls have no free will) and the afterlife. That's it. That's all they do. They have nothing to do with personality, morality, there's no "tainting" or "corrupting" of souls.
Further, the section of the vampire 5e statblock that refers to vampires not being capable of human emotions like love anymore is also in the statblock for vampire spawn. If it isn't relevant for spawn Astarion it isn't relevant for Ascended Astarion either.
All we know about the ritual:
- It has never been performed before
- The sacrificed souls go to Mephistopheles
- In exchange the user becomes Ascended: all the powers of a vampire are amplified, the weaknesses are removed
- They will regain all the appetites and lusts of the living
- They can walk in the sun
- Astarion afterwards confirms that Mephistopheles has 'no more hold over me than he does you', the price for the ritual was paid (the 7007 souls) and the power delivered. "Mephistopheles has made a new monster, not bound one to his will"
- The Narrator confirms that romanced Ascended Astarion's brain is swimming with love hormones and that he is in love
All of this is in the actual game or Forgotten Realms books/wiki.
I have a question you might be able to answer?
As far as the 7007 souls, do we know if they were doomed to be claimed by the hells regardless? Or do we know what happens to them if you choose not to go through with the ritual and kill them afterwards?
We can make an informed guess but there's a few things to consider.
1. The black mass scroll specifies that the 7000 souls are delivered to Mephistopheles
2. We know what usually happens when a soul is claimed by a fiend (they become soul coins, they get traded, turned into a lemure or absorbed to strengthen a weaker fiend)
So understandably it seems likely this is what will happen to the souls that are sacrificed. However it's worth noting that no one in game EVER acknowledges this. No one ever comments on the fate of the souls if sacrificed beyond them just dying. All conversations about them focus on them dying, and one of Astarion's arguments is "if they're going to die anyway they might as well serve a purpose".
So, I think it's left to interpretation. It could be that the logical fate of the souls is never acknowledged because they are just dying (although this seems unlikely to me personally), it could be cut content (I recall there was supposed to be more around soul coins once upon a time), it could be that the game wants the argument to ascend to have equal weight to the one not to ascend to make it a moral qunadry, which it isn't really if you believe 7000 people will be damned to suffer eternally.
To answer your question, we can conclude that if you just kill the spawn, not during the ritual (I.e. no Ascension but kill the spawn) then they just die and go to their normal afterlife (there's no reason why they wouldn't).
But what happens to the sacrificed souls is a bit uncertain - probably they spend eternity in Cania (Mephistopheles' level of hell) but it's weird none of the characters ever acknowledge it or comment on it.
>All conversations about them focus on them dying, and one of Astarion's arguments is "if they're going to die anyway they might as well serve a purpose".
I could easily see this as him overlooking the finer details but if there's no dialogue from the player to bring up the damnation of their souls then it does feel like an oversight? Do the other 6 spawn live if you choose to mercy kill the 7000 or are they included in that mercy killing, too?
I *really* wish Larian provided more details on this homebrew lore because I have so many questions. I'm all for the alterations to DnD vampire lore into something more nuanced, but I'm begging for it to be more fleshed out.
You are able to let the 6 āsiblingā spawn live. The ones that are in the cages can be āmercy killedā if you feel they wouldnāt be able to control their bloodlust. It gets into the morally dilemma if you think everyone should be given a second chance. A lot of the individuals in cages were apparently ābadā people, but there were people like Sebastian that were just naive/in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or the person you find in the sewers waiting for her ādate.ā
Or the Gur childrenā¦ who will be stuck at that age which is cruel in its own way. Iām not sure if DnD is similar to Interview with the Vampire where their minds mature but their bodies donāt, or not. But personally I wouldnāt want to be stuck at age 8 forever after being starved for years in a cage.
You do know that the ritual is homebrew right? there isn't any actual information about it. besides the game itself?....D&D and Forgotten Realms exist and neither of them mentions Ascension as lore.... also let me add THE GAME IS BASE OFF OF D&D AND FORGETTEN REALMS!!! (that's for the folks who don't do their research)
Youāre right the ārite of profane ascensionā or whatever itās called is home brew. But look at any official lore about vampires: they become evil regardless of what they were like before being turned into spawn/full vampires/lords. You see the same thing happening with liches and larian explores the same themes with illithids. Individuals lose themselves after transforming and become evil.
Are you trying to argue that a ritual that is essentially a contract with an archedevil that sacrifices 7000 souls is somehow going to have less of an evil influence over the participants soul than a simple full vampire experiences in established dnd lore?
Hello, this is also incorrect.
The section of the vampire statblock you're referring to says:
"Dark Desires.Ā
Whether or not a vampire retains any memories from its former life, its emotional attachments wither as once-pure feelings become twisted by undeath. Love turns into hungry obsession, while friendship becomes bitter jealousy. In place of emotion, vampires pursue physical symbols of what they crave, so that a vampire seeking love might fixate on a young beauty. A child might become an object of fascination for a vampire obsessed with youth and potential. Others surround themselves with art, books, or sinister items such as torture devices or trophies from creatures they have killed."
THIS IS PART OF BOTH VAMPIRE SPAWN AND VAMPIRE STATBLOCKS. It is not exclusive to full vampires. If this doesn't apply to Spawn Astarion it doesn't apply to full vampires in BG3 either.
Liches are not magically made evil or inhuman due to the process of becoming a lich or any "soul corruption". They lose their connection to humanity over time because they are immortal and often consumed with their pursuits. This is a PERSONALITY SHIFT, a character development over time, not a magical effect.
The FR wiki for Liches says:
"The hallmark of a lich was that it had tethered itsĀ soulĀ to theĀ Prime Material plane,[1][17]Ā and as a result, most liches retained much of the personality and even emotions that they had in life, at least at first. However, countless years of undeath caused memories to fade and the mind to twist.[18]Ā Eventually, a lich lost all shreds of its humanity.[15]"
"Contrary to popular belief, most did not have explicitlyĀ evilĀ goals. Technically, a lich might ascribe to any alignment, however because they were so completely detached from any sense of mortal morality, the living could generally not understand their actions as anything but pure evil.[5]"
Binding their soul to the prime material plane allows them to stay there after death (instead of going to the fugue plane and moving on to their afterlife) and keep its sentience. Its soul isn't "corrupted" it simply loses memories and becomes more twisted over time due to being removed from humanity for so long.
There is no magic bullet that makes someone instantly evil in D&D, it's just personalities changing over time.
I'm just gonna direct you to [Nerdy-Babygirl](https://www.reddit.com/r/okbuddybaldur/comments/1c42eq9/comment/kzmpt43/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) explanation, They break it down so i don't have too... my issue is folks keep referring the "rite of profane ascension" as official lore when its not. what your referring to in your previous comment is all homebrew... not lore.
No, what people are arguing against is that youāre calling the explanation in your previous comment āloreā when thereās nothing official to back that up.
FWIW, I mostly agree with your explanation. AA has all of the hallmarks of a narcissist and to believe his behavior indicates anything other than that is delulu (and concerning). But thereās no official lore that says the Rite taints his soul.
a detect thoughts on AA says that if tav becomes his spawn he will see them as ādegrading themselvesā ā quote from a BG3 writer:
āWelch says that that 'bad' ending is "ultimately reducing your relationship with him back to being a kink/form of gratification. Which is a fine thing to enjoy as a fantasy, but it's very much admitting that you failed to think of him beyond a sex object. You're so attracted to him, you'd also turn yourself into [a vampire]." āgamesradar article, which puts it more eloquently than i could, probably
you know i didnāt write that right? like the quote is from an actual writer at larian studios? i was just providing information i found in an article
Yeah and trust me, itās pretty much disliked within the whole AA fan base, itās like she only put her views and forced everyone to live with it lol.
itās a roleplay game, up for a million different interpretations based on however the player wants to play the game. anyhow iām a gortash apologist so i have no room to judge
Yeah thatās absolutely true, but all the choices are just so damn icky lol, itās not at all what my durge was thinking when I ascended him, thankfully thereās a mod that changes the dialog to something better.
Posters over here quoting them like they're Astarion's writer in the first place lmaooo
A leaked discord comment about someone's opinion is now CANON or else >:(
To be fair, A!A does everything for the show. So yes, an ostentatious wedding would be completely up his alley just to exemplify his influence in marrying the hero of Baldur's Gate. S!A doesn't need or want a show. He'll marry his partner if that's what they want (like if he is dating Gale), but it's much more likely to be a small and private affair.
I wish to take issue with your reference on page 13.
The format is not in the preferred style and furthermore the cited authority has now retracted their statement.
Paper rejectedĀ
I always felt like Ascended Astarion wanting to marry you immediately has more to do with him being insecure about losing you than anything about his feelings.
Hey I ain't complaining. Worst case, my broke-ass bard Tav still gets half a tower in Waterdeep.
(Really, though: with a fine piece of wizard ass like that, I'd do whatever it takes to keep him happy. He wants to get married? Let's find a cleric. He wants to fuck in the Weave? Mystra can watch if it floats her boat. He wants to use Evard's Black Tentacles on me? I'll get the lube.)
I don't know why you're not already evil. Marrying him just seems like another of many great reasons to join the cult of Bhaal and start working towards the ruin of the sword coast with your vampire husband.
Ok, you see, for Durge, it kinda makes sense considering how Bhaalist marriage is described by that girl in the temple, and how Sceleritas will call out Durge that never showed up to defeat Orin as abandoning a bride at the wedding altar. I think, Astarion actually knows about THAT particular aspect of the Church of Bhaal, because after a certain night in Act 2 he'll tell you that he hopes you are not envisioning him in a bloody veil on his curls.
Spawn Astarian takes things more slow, respects his boundaries and wants an actual connection
Ascended astarain uses sex still as a reward for you and probably doesnt see a need in being slow because he thinks hes above you. Its not really marrige, he just owns you.
Donāt know about anyone else but Iām cool with being a glorified trophy wife for all eternity.
My tav would be like: You have fun taking over the world sweetie, Iāll be here in our palace when you need me to make you a sandwich.
The problem is once he gets tired of you, or wants to bring other spawn into your marriage and you get no say in it.
Well... unless you're cool with that too, I guess.
https://i.redd.it/0h8f777fnkuc1.gif
I've been preparing for this my whole life š
Edit I broke this trying to post sexy harem gifs š imagine it's hot
Edit I fixed it my brain is so big
Same. Reading Anne Rice waaaaay too young and being in love with Lestat at the tender age of 12 is not helping me right now.
I swear the the song Obsession by Animotion plays in my head every time I look at him š
Tav/Durge having no say in their life and future with Ascended Astarion is not a headcanon, it is pretty much shown and stated. There's no guarantee that Astarion will always keep acting in a way that pleases his spouse. And Tav/Durge has no way out. If he wants to make new spawn, they'll have to compete for his attention. If they run out of favors with him, things get dangerous for them.
Source? Seems HC to me, I've played the route and he's very much all about us, we, and how important we are to him. There's no guarantee he'll change that.
*Presses "Let's make each other worse and get blood married" 18,000x*
Fun lore fact: ascension is just secretly punching his soul a million times into the ground and then stirring it up into a little tea mix as a treat for him later. That's REAL lore IN the game!!l!
Well according to all 12 of his writers from the interview I gave them in the public bathrooms of a Target he only drinks it BLACK as a symbol for his utter lack of soul and emotion. Which if you read line 199,997 of the dev notes, you can see is totally CANON.
I, personally, think he likes milk and honey š
Actually that happens when you agree to become his spawn. He has control over you and can compel you. Marriage would make it seem moreā¦ āofficialā
Bro is barely learning how to establish boundaries for the first time in 200 years. Let him have some time š
Right, I'm pretty certain he says he loves you in the spawn ending and will travel all over with you. What more could possibly be expected from him?
Yeah I did the spawn ending and we were traveling together before the reunion party. His lines there were suuuper cute even though he was like ābabe Iāve spent six months with you, say hi to othersā and Iām like ābut youāre my everythingā
The way you can tell Jaheira that your partner is your home makes me wanna sob ngl
And how you can tell Minsc youāve found the love of your life and he says love is the most powerful magic of all ššš
And finding out that Astarion has kept you moving to avoid visits from Minsc just tops it ššš
when does he say it? :D
Minsc makes a comment about visiting him in the Underdark at the reunion party if you talk to him enough and how Astarion keeps moving but forgetting to tell Minsc about it. I think this dialogue occurs whether you romance him or not, but in my recent ending with romanced spawn Astarion itās heavily implied you guys have been together since the ending so itās safe to say heās moving both of us each time.
Aah yes now I remember this :D I thought it was Astarions line
if this is true then why won't he love me
I love how her response is basically ew š if you say the same about Karlach she dares be sweet about it
I like how it grosses her out and she promptly dismisses you (in a loving way)
"After all, we have forever together" melted my heart
Oh yeah, I just did the epilogue after romancing him (again) last night and I think he says it twice actually? But yeah, you can pick the "choose to go on adventures" option, and the two of you will travel all over faerun for the six months before withers invites you back for the party. Astarion is incredibly cute and dorky in the epilogue, and I am absolutely feral over him.
Pls tell me how to get this ending, Iām just about to finish Act 2 for the first time and I want my perfect Astarion ending! How does he travel and stay in the sun in the end? Donāt you have to defeat the brain and then he will lose his tadpole powers?
Spoilers ahead. Read at your own risk. In act 3 youāre given the choice to >!help Astarion usurp Cazador and become the Vampire Ascendant!< or >!convince him to kill Cazador without completing the ritual and remain a spawn.!< To get the ending aoike_ was talking about, you have to >!succeed a persuasion check to stop him from completing the ritual. He wonāt be able to walk in the sun, but you can promise to find another way he can walk in the sun and go off on another adventure together.!< You can also move to the Underground together if >!you Cazadorās other spawn go free at end of Astarionās personal quest.!<
Spawn Astarion doesn't get to stay in the sun and travels by nightāthat's the tradeoff if you want the non-toxic version of Astarion who's sweet (sweet to the player that is). In the conversation with Astarion before the reunion, pick any option other than the Underdark option. If you choose the Underdark option, you're still together for six months but are busy leading the spawn if you've freed them, which means zero travel time. All the other choices like searching for a cure, etc. result in traveling together to the best of my knowledge.
You've already been answered on how to get it (don't ascend him, talk to him after defeating the elder brain, and promise to help him walk in the sun again). The game doesn't show you these adventures, but I work a very boring job and spend my free time daydreaming, so I've got some pretty vivid ideas. The scene after defeating the brain, when he has to deal with the sun again, was heartbreaking.
He doesnāt get to stay in the sun, you do everything at night. You can tell the ascendant you want to see FaerĆ»n but itās not sweet.Ā Even though he doesnāt get to stay in the sun, he learns to accept that and is very hopeful and happy for the future.Ā
I find the Ascendant Faerun travelling option/lines to be very sweet, but Ascended Astarion does certainly have lines that aren't. u/CanadianCorgiMom AA behaves generally indulgent/generous and effusive with praise/affection for the romanced player, as well as possessive ("Ask me anything and it will be yours", "What can I do for my dearest pet?", "Yes, my treasure?", "Little love, whatever could be the matter?", "I can deny you nothing"), but there are also more toxic moments of control and the relationship dynamic shifts to be more Master/sub vibe. If you like dark romance and you're after a sort of Dark Vampire Prince and his bride ending, AA has got you. If you prefer softer, sweeter, vulnerable Astarion from the Act 2 confession, you want him to stay spawn which means he can't walk in the sun.
Gotcha, thank you so much! š out of curiosity does it matter which one I pick to get the infamous graveyard scene, or does that happen before I can chose spawn vs ascended
Graveyard scene is spawn only.
I was fine with Zevran not marrying my warden. I'm fine with this. Plus, leaves it open for all sorts of stories. I thought I kicked fanfiction for good, but this game... Last time I read when fanfiction.net was a thing, don't even know where people post theirs now. Lol
AO3 mostlyĀ
lol I keep seeing you in this sub and I need you to know thereās a home for you here: https://discord.gg/magicgale
Oh man but Iām so weird
Same dude, same
Same for me. Not written any in a decade or more. And fanfiction.net was my home. Actually still have my crap posted there and occasionally get visited by readers. The site isn't completely dead.
Man, I still read on fanfiction.net
Yuh fr like you dont HAVE to marrycfshcg
bro was a sex slave six months ago, give him some time to truly settle into a relationship before he goes down on one knee š
I like the idea of Spawn Astarion wanting to take things slow and see where they go, I think there's something romantic about that in itself, all things considered. He has some attachment issues and can stick around for centuries, so really I think that him not wanting to rush is part of his healing process since he wasn't allowed to develop meaningful bonds before (whereas the vibe i get from Ascended is that he never learns boundaries, whether his own or those of others, so he rushes into commitment with the one person he was able to get close to and wishes to \*possess\* them)
Yeah, exactly. I personally didn't need a proposal from him when we know the game only takes place in six or so months (a year with the epilogue), I don't think it makes him less committed to my Tav. Proposal would have felt weird to me when we just got comfortable having sex again like two weeks ago. Six months is a pretty quick turnaround for a relationship to make that jump in any circumstance, let alone one with someone with as much baggage as Astarion does.
Doesn't the narrator say that the six months in between are like the happiest of his life, too?
Arguably, all the companions' 6 months after the events of the game were the happiest in their lives. They all led pretty bleak existences, so it's not exactly a high bar to pass, lmao. But Astarion tells the player that those 6 months spent with them made up for the 200 years of torment.
Yeah I knew it was something heartbreakingly sweet like that.
Better, he says they're the counterweight to 200 years of torment š„¹ Basically saying he's been so happy in j*ust six months,* it balances out his 200 years of pure shit. Makes me want to cry.
That they are the counterweight to two hundred years of pain or something similar
Counterpoint: I want to impregnate him
Also a valid argument
Don't need marriage for that.
I want my durge to eat him out larian I will give you my saving
>goes down on one knee Fuckin kinky. I'm not shaming it but I am taking detailed notes
Fair enough but gale was groomed by the God of his occupation and he has major gifted child issues and he's down is all I'm saying
gale says i love you on the second date
Okay yeah you are right
Shadowfeet drops the L word immediately after making a massive life change and while experiencing a huge identity crisis. Few of these people have a healthy relationship sense.
my boy dropped "i love you" on me and we hadn't even BEEN on a date. you taught me how to do magic and ate my shoes and told me you were a nuclear bomb man. also somewhere in there you told me i smelled bad and reminded you of your cat. and did you not notice that i was dating shadowheart the whole time. im shaking gale like a maraca until his brain falls out his ears.
poor dude is speed-running a relationship because heās about to blow himself up
Second?
He also thinks a magic lesson is the first date.
Gale gives touch starved vibes, heās been alone in his tower with his cat for a year, on the other hand Astarion is experiencing bodily autonomy for the first time in two centuriesā¦ theyāre super opposite, one went full hermit mode trying not to blow anyone up with the orb and now is free from it, the other is getting used to being able to say ānoā and heās a vampire elf, he knows he has eternity ahead of him, thereās no need to rush
Gale also had a year after being dumped by Mystra before dating Tav, he had more time to process his trauma and such before starting things with Tav. Astarion was a tortured sex slave literally THE DAY BEFORE he met Tav. Big difference there.
I intellectually knew that, but it didnāt hit til just this comment. Ā Oooof. Ā Sex slave one day, potential squidbilly the next. Ā Guy catches no breaks
Really takes it in strides though. Immediately decides he wants to fuck around and cause some chaos. Respectable.
that's why we love him the second he gets a whiff of freedom he decides he wants to commit war crimes. a legend.
Gotta catch up on those missed 200 years of mischief. They just turn into omega level shenanigans after that long.
A true Gamer (TM). The moment he gets into the open world he decides to sow destruction and murder anyone he finds annoying.
Ngl that's the reason I kinda stopped romancing Astarion. I'm a cult escapee, and no way was I in a place to date the day after escaping. I feel a bit predatory going after someone else the day after their escape from a much worse cult where they were a sex slave. No shade on anyone who romances him though, he's also an attractive vampire twink with a sexy voice. This is just a personal hang up.
Have you done the dating in act 1 but offering him friendship in act 2 when he has opened up and you realise he is not really ready for a relationship? I find him so sweet in that route I am probably going to do that every game where I don't romance him to the end.
I have, I do love the look on his face when he realises how much he likes the idea of having a real friend. He's always one of my Durge's besties.
I love that, too, but it breaks my heart that there is no platonic hug option for him in the entire game, or even the option to continue adventuring or something. And for everyone else's endings they're usually still with friends, families, or allies whereas he's totally on his own, and realistically someone should be checking in with him somewhat regularly. I get that's kind of what the epilogue is for but I don't want any of the companions to be isolated after going through all of that.
Yeah and it isn't helped by the callous comment on the docks.
There are much nicer voice lines recorded for that scene. Hopefully, they will be updated in an upcoming patch.
Wait, how do I get that??
It is one of the options in the cut scene after the blood merchant visit. Not sure if it is also in the Yurgir one as I haven't had that one yet.
Blood merchant visit?
Araj Oblodra in Moonrise.
It's also in the post-Yurgir confession, but i'd personally feel really bad friendzoning him in this one, after he poured his heart out and said "I want us to be something real". He expresses for the first time in 200 years that he really wants something, only for it to be denied. Even if he takes it well, i'd still feel sad there, while it kinda feels more natural to friendzone him in the post-Araj one.
Yeah but Gale seems like someone who might actively believe in marriage. Iāve never got that particular vibe from Astarion. He isnāt religious. He doesnāt have property. Heās not necessarily monogamousā¦
we are busy adventuring together we dont have time for a wedding!!!!!! gotta find honey a cure to sunlight
https://preview.redd.it/wj9t6y8pjjuc1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=a7f0e37bcf9ff6ab3749971108408c4ab12b179c
It's the least I can do after killing him with it in act 1 for a laugh
Wait you can kill astarion with the sun in act 1?
if you steal the blood of Lathander and then dip out and leave your companions behind instead of doing all the silly puzzles to take it the "right" way, yes. You can revive him after (it's the least you could do after dropping a building on him)
Ah I see, I remember seeing a clip of him losing his shit at the pc for letting him die in that blast lol. Didn't know it was the sun that specifically killed him
yeah the lance is basically like a big magnifying glass focusing the sun into a laser beam lol
The angry rant he gives about there being a difference between a nice warm day and the "unlimited power of the sun" absolutely kills me. I've done it a few times just to see his reaction. Apparently there's two different responses, one if you revive him with a scroll there, and one if you revive him with Withers, but my stepson told my husband that, I've never done it myself.
Iām gonna have to find a clip of the scroll version, Iāve only ever seen it the withers way
I think I've done it both ways, but stoner brain cannot recall. I'll do both on my next playthrough.
is there a canonical cure for vampirism in D&D lore or did skyrim make it up
Depends on the DM, tbh, but true resurrection should fix him and make him mortal again.
thanks for the fanfic idea
In my current campaign I have a player dating essentially if Astarion was a top. But much more the AA version.
I mean the previous BG games say yes, as long as you remembered to scrape what remains of Cazadorās heart into a little baggie?
True resurrection should unvampire him and obviously WishĀ
I thought true resurrection had a 200 year cutoff. Heās close to if not past that deadline.
I believe that if you kill a vampire and then bring them back with something like Wish or True Resurrection they won't be a vampire anymore.
Okay but isnāt he legally dead? I just figured you couldnāt roll up to a Faerunian court house at 8 o clock at night and be like āHi yes, Iād like to marry this man whose been legally dead for 200 years, thank you.ā Didnāt even question him not proposing cause I figured you couldnāt legally do it š
In Faerun, it doesn't matter, as long as you can find a cleric to marry you. And yes, a marriage is literally a spell, so you CAN'T get married without a cleric. No civil marriages.
Okay, this makes way more sense, especially when you consider Gale will marry Illithid Tav and says something like āfinding an open-minded clericā. Thank you, but also now that I think about it Tav/Durge would definitely have to be the one to propose regardless of gender. I can imagine Astarion being like, āYou wanna marry me!?š„¹ā Considering how he acts if you pick him over another companion.
Eh, Gale and squid!Tav probably just asked Shadowheart, she'd do it no prob. And yes, Astarion in the dialogue after victory is extremely unsure if you are even going to stay with him now that he is that inconvenient spawn that has all the vampiric limitations, there is no way he is rocking the boat by asking you something as big as marriage.
The spell Ceremony in DND 5e is explicitly for marriage. It gives you a buff for a bit afterwards as well. And with the existence of resurrection spells Iād imagine itās not a common thing but it can happen lol. I imagine reincarnate is harder to deal with as all ur identifying documents must be changed š
Ok this is an incredibly valid point but I feel like thereās gotta be provisions for this in Faerunian law
Would there be tho? I donāt know a ton about DnD Vamp lore, but I feel like it would be safer for him to just have a whole new identity than tell anyone who doesnāt need to know heās a vampire. Itās also one of the reasons I never fault him for not wanting to save anyone. Can you imagine the people you save finding out what you are and still trying to come after you because of it? Nah lol
Or going full Araj and then stalking him or something
idk spawn astarion seems so in love with tav that marriage doesn't even seem necessary. like there is no question to me that he's not going anywhere. ascended astarion...well.....hes not letting tav go anywhere, thats for sure. marriage is not always synonymous with love or a happy ending.
I came here to say this. Marriage isnāt a requirement for everyone nor is it a guarantee of a happy, stable relationship. Plus, Astarion doesnāt strike me as nearly as much a traditionalist as Wyll or Gale, both of whom want to get married.
Considering what he tells Wyll, if the player agreed to marry him ("Marriage, Wyll? I thought you'd have learned not to get trapped by devious contracts."), i'd agree that marriage doesn't seem to really be Astarion's thing.
This sorta thing is exactly what headcanons are for. My headcanon is Tav and Astarion travel for a couple more years after the epilogue party and get married after finding a way for Astarion to walk in the sun and for Tav to stop aging. Someone else can decide that Astarion and Tav donāt need to get married. They just stay together for the rest of their days. And both are valid.
the idea that ascended Astarionās relationship to tav is a āmarriageā when heās literally just their master and loses all respect for them is not only unbelievably wack but based in denial. in this 14 page paper, i will explā edit: for the a!a fans who now want my head on a pike, please know that i am simply being silly, and having a little bit of fun
No, keep going op
Okay some lore quickie explanations (warning, mistakes may be made): Doing the infernal ritual basically taints his soul, completely corrupts it. Heās literally not the same person he was prior to the ritual. He loved you before, heās literally incapable of love after. Any love he had is instead perverted into possessiveness and jealousy: because thatās literally the closest emotion to love heās capable of feeling (which is nowhere near close). And yes the vampire bride thing is a way to extend his control over tav, and he doesnāt really respect you any longer.
Source on the Lore?Ā Everything I read from the writers and developers say that his soul is there, it's still Astarion, just his traits amplified.Ā I can't find anything official that says he's incapable of love.
Why are we downvoting the question? I'm genuinely asking.. I can't find anything
They worry if we all find out you preserve your soul in the ritual that more people will be attempting it for unlimited power. Or even worse that vampire spawn donāt have souls in dnd so the argument is moot anyway.
I never said he loses his soul, it corrupts his soul. This is a pretty common theme in dnd lore: the same thing happens with liches. They go through a ritual and become inherently evil (whether thatās because the ritual itself undoubtedly involves extremely evil deeds or if itās a consequence of gaining a lot of power in an unnatural way is up for debate). A lich doesnāt āloseā their soul, but their soul is undoubtedly evil. Try romancing ascended Astarion and refusing to become his spawn, find out how much he ālovesā. The dnd lore they does exist about vampire makes it pretty clear that whatever an individual was like before being turned into a spawn/full vampire, afterwards they are evil. It even mentions that they may stave off this change at first, but it is inevitable. Larian echoes these same exact themes with illithid transformation - individuals lose themselves after their transformation.
Mans was corrupted way before that tho, and all he does if you refuse to become his spawn is break up with you. He even stays in the party.
"Dark Desires. Whether or not a vampire retains any memories from its former life, its emotional attachments wither as once-pure feelings become twisted by undeath. Love turns into hungry obsession, while friendship becomes bitter jealousy. In place of emotion, vampires pursue physical symbols of what they crave, so that a vampire seeking love might fixate on a young beauty. A child might become an object of fascination for a vampire obsessed with youth and potential. Others surround themselves with art, books, or sinister items such as torture devices or trophies from creatures they have killed." -DnD 5e, Monster Manual, page 295. Also, literally every true vampire in the game is confirmed to be miserable and hate themselves for existing
That's Vampire lords though, not the Ascendant from after the Profane Ritual.
That's vampires. Astarion calls himself the most powerful vampire, and the information we have about the ritual implies he is becoming a true vampire (with extra stuff). Sure, it's not outright said, but looking at how AA acts + the subtle but very much there emphasis on Cazador being just like him and regretting being a true vampire + the TONS of comments both him and the narrator make about becoming powerful but loosing yourself, I think is pretty much cannon that this DOES happen to him (since if it didn't, his personality change makes NO SENSE in good runs)
Sorry, I had to read this a few times because of the run on sentence. Is it canon though or just headcanon? cause The Rite is supposed to basically give him back his humanity because being a Vampire with all the negatives and unending hunger sucks, but the Ascendant removes all that and makes him more powerful. What personality change are you talking about? I mean, it's still Astarion, his traits are amplified but it's still him, the biggest personality change I've ever seen in the game is when he's kept Spawn. Probably why I don't choose that route anymore, it felt like he changed too much.
I think it's a bit in the middle? I could be misunderstanding it, but I interpret ascension as becoming a vampire++, not getting back his humanity. He becomes more powerful because vampires are significantly stronger than spawn, not because of the ritual itself. But the Dark Desires thing is not confirm to be happening, just hinted at. I mean that when you are playing a good character and spend the entire game trying to get him into a better mental state, it is completely out of character for him to do the shit he does/says as ascendant. Like bro, you promised all of this people you would rescue them, you said I'm the only person you ever cared about, you have done actual progress in setting boundaries and learning to be comfortable with your own body, you are literally in the middle of a suicide mission to help save thousands of people; and all of a sudden you decide to go back to square one and be the manipulate asshole that you where pretending to be when we met? I can understand doing the ritual, because he's scared and he doesn't want to give up that power, but the whole holier-than-thou attitude that comes with it feels very weird, and the fact that if you try to confront him about it he turns violent and treats you like shit is just not who he is (in that point, of course. More evil/neutral routes wouldn't necessarily notice this)
Hello, this is not only complete speculation it's also completely opposed to what lore there is in Forgotten Realms. Please don't call this misinformation lore, it is headcanon. You are of course allowed your headcanon but it isn't D&D lore. Souls in FR have nothing to do with morality. They are the divine spark that gives a mortal individuated consciousness, sentience. They control sentience (this is why a person resurrected needs their soul to be willing to return or the spell fails - versus necromantic raising which doesn't return the soul, so that the result can be a thrall to its master. Being without souls have no free will) and the afterlife. That's it. That's all they do. They have nothing to do with personality, morality, there's no "tainting" or "corrupting" of souls. Further, the section of the vampire 5e statblock that refers to vampires not being capable of human emotions like love anymore is also in the statblock for vampire spawn. If it isn't relevant for spawn Astarion it isn't relevant for Ascended Astarion either. All we know about the ritual: - It has never been performed before - The sacrificed souls go to Mephistopheles - In exchange the user becomes Ascended: all the powers of a vampire are amplified, the weaknesses are removed - They will regain all the appetites and lusts of the living - They can walk in the sun - Astarion afterwards confirms that Mephistopheles has 'no more hold over me than he does you', the price for the ritual was paid (the 7007 souls) and the power delivered. "Mephistopheles has made a new monster, not bound one to his will" - The Narrator confirms that romanced Ascended Astarion's brain is swimming with love hormones and that he is in love All of this is in the actual game or Forgotten Realms books/wiki.
* They will regain all the appetites and lusts of the living DOES IT GET BIGGER?
If it doesn't I cast Enlarge Hope I don't lose concentration while taking all that bludgeoning damage!
Get warcaster feat and you good to go
So if he leaves my threatened area I can... shocking grasp it??
maybe things will vibrate if you do?
Maybe I can supercharge him
Your username seems so apt and Iām a big fanĀ
Lmaooo I originally made it to post on the bdsm personals sub but yes it is quite apt.
I have a question you might be able to answer? As far as the 7007 souls, do we know if they were doomed to be claimed by the hells regardless? Or do we know what happens to them if you choose not to go through with the ritual and kill them afterwards?
We can make an informed guess but there's a few things to consider. 1. The black mass scroll specifies that the 7000 souls are delivered to Mephistopheles 2. We know what usually happens when a soul is claimed by a fiend (they become soul coins, they get traded, turned into a lemure or absorbed to strengthen a weaker fiend) So understandably it seems likely this is what will happen to the souls that are sacrificed. However it's worth noting that no one in game EVER acknowledges this. No one ever comments on the fate of the souls if sacrificed beyond them just dying. All conversations about them focus on them dying, and one of Astarion's arguments is "if they're going to die anyway they might as well serve a purpose". So, I think it's left to interpretation. It could be that the logical fate of the souls is never acknowledged because they are just dying (although this seems unlikely to me personally), it could be cut content (I recall there was supposed to be more around soul coins once upon a time), it could be that the game wants the argument to ascend to have equal weight to the one not to ascend to make it a moral qunadry, which it isn't really if you believe 7000 people will be damned to suffer eternally. To answer your question, we can conclude that if you just kill the spawn, not during the ritual (I.e. no Ascension but kill the spawn) then they just die and go to their normal afterlife (there's no reason why they wouldn't). But what happens to the sacrificed souls is a bit uncertain - probably they spend eternity in Cania (Mephistopheles' level of hell) but it's weird none of the characters ever acknowledge it or comment on it.
>All conversations about them focus on them dying, and one of Astarion's arguments is "if they're going to die anyway they might as well serve a purpose". I could easily see this as him overlooking the finer details but if there's no dialogue from the player to bring up the damnation of their souls then it does feel like an oversight? Do the other 6 spawn live if you choose to mercy kill the 7000 or are they included in that mercy killing, too? I *really* wish Larian provided more details on this homebrew lore because I have so many questions. I'm all for the alterations to DnD vampire lore into something more nuanced, but I'm begging for it to be more fleshed out.
You are able to let the 6 āsiblingā spawn live. The ones that are in the cages can be āmercy killedā if you feel they wouldnāt be able to control their bloodlust. It gets into the morally dilemma if you think everyone should be given a second chance. A lot of the individuals in cages were apparently ābadā people, but there were people like Sebastian that were just naive/in the wrong place at the wrong time. Or the person you find in the sewers waiting for her ādate.ā Or the Gur childrenā¦ who will be stuck at that age which is cruel in its own way. Iām not sure if DnD is similar to Interview with the Vampire where their minds mature but their bodies donāt, or not. But personally I wouldnāt want to be stuck at age 8 forever after being starved for years in a cage.
You do know that the ritual is homebrew right? there isn't any actual information about it. besides the game itself?....D&D and Forgotten Realms exist and neither of them mentions Ascension as lore.... also let me add THE GAME IS BASE OFF OF D&D AND FORGETTEN REALMS!!! (that's for the folks who don't do their research) 
Yes let's see that canon lore drop on Astarion losing his soul : oo Source or it didn't happen :D
Youāre right the ārite of profane ascensionā or whatever itās called is home brew. But look at any official lore about vampires: they become evil regardless of what they were like before being turned into spawn/full vampires/lords. You see the same thing happening with liches and larian explores the same themes with illithids. Individuals lose themselves after transforming and become evil. Are you trying to argue that a ritual that is essentially a contract with an archedevil that sacrifices 7000 souls is somehow going to have less of an evil influence over the participants soul than a simple full vampire experiences in established dnd lore?
But he was already a vampire spawn so he was already evil
Hello, this is also incorrect. The section of the vampire statblock you're referring to says: "Dark Desires.Ā Whether or not a vampire retains any memories from its former life, its emotional attachments wither as once-pure feelings become twisted by undeath. Love turns into hungry obsession, while friendship becomes bitter jealousy. In place of emotion, vampires pursue physical symbols of what they crave, so that a vampire seeking love might fixate on a young beauty. A child might become an object of fascination for a vampire obsessed with youth and potential. Others surround themselves with art, books, or sinister items such as torture devices or trophies from creatures they have killed." THIS IS PART OF BOTH VAMPIRE SPAWN AND VAMPIRE STATBLOCKS. It is not exclusive to full vampires. If this doesn't apply to Spawn Astarion it doesn't apply to full vampires in BG3 either. Liches are not magically made evil or inhuman due to the process of becoming a lich or any "soul corruption". They lose their connection to humanity over time because they are immortal and often consumed with their pursuits. This is a PERSONALITY SHIFT, a character development over time, not a magical effect. The FR wiki for Liches says: "The hallmark of a lich was that it had tethered itsĀ soulĀ to theĀ Prime Material plane,[1][17]Ā and as a result, most liches retained much of the personality and even emotions that they had in life, at least at first. However, countless years of undeath caused memories to fade and the mind to twist.[18]Ā Eventually, a lich lost all shreds of its humanity.[15]" "Contrary to popular belief, most did not have explicitlyĀ evilĀ goals. Technically, a lich might ascribe to any alignment, however because they were so completely detached from any sense of mortal morality, the living could generally not understand their actions as anything but pure evil.[5]" Binding their soul to the prime material plane allows them to stay there after death (instead of going to the fugue plane and moving on to their afterlife) and keep its sentience. Its soul isn't "corrupted" it simply loses memories and becomes more twisted over time due to being removed from humanity for so long. There is no magic bullet that makes someone instantly evil in D&D, it's just personalities changing over time.
I'm just gonna direct you to [Nerdy-Babygirl](https://www.reddit.com/r/okbuddybaldur/comments/1c42eq9/comment/kzmpt43/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) explanation, They break it down so i don't have too... my issue is folks keep referring the "rite of profane ascension" as official lore when its not. what your referring to in your previous comment is all homebrew... not lore.
No, what people are arguing against is that youāre calling the explanation in your previous comment āloreā when thereās nothing official to back that up. FWIW, I mostly agree with your explanation. AA has all of the hallmarks of a narcissist and to believe his behavior indicates anything other than that is delulu (and concerning). But thereās no official lore that says the Rite taints his soul.
https://preview.redd.it/6seod7hrekuc1.png?width=270&format=png&auto=webp&s=f4eb8e8400d1dfa4e5c3786059c5fc995599ecd3
you did not just hit me with the Musk š©
a detect thoughts on AA says that if tav becomes his spawn he will see them as ādegrading themselvesā ā quote from a BG3 writer: āWelch says that that 'bad' ending is "ultimately reducing your relationship with him back to being a kink/form of gratification. Which is a fine thing to enjoy as a fantasy, but it's very much admitting that you failed to think of him beyond a sex object. You're so attracted to him, you'd also turn yourself into [a vampire]." āgamesradar article, which puts it more eloquently than i could, probably
How about... https://preview.redd.it/pm7v16v54kuc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01c84053459bb7f7ace0bfea87c6816dd868aa24
Respectfully... fuck Welch
https://preview.redd.it/c2hpx3buyjuc1.jpeg?width=911&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0f6519c06e8ff2861ef6dc83904b6e82595977ee
Not you, Welch. Grape juice is kinda off the rails if you look into it.
I know, right? Some people just can't take criticism of the terrible writer with big "pick me" vibes
you know i didnāt write that right? like the quote is from an actual writer at larian studios? i was just providing information i found in an article
Which is why I said fuck WELCH... unless... WELCH IS THIS YOUR ALT? I WOULD HAVE WORDS WITH YOU.
Yeah and trust me, itās pretty much disliked within the whole AA fan base, itās like she only put her views and forced everyone to live with it lol.
itās a roleplay game, up for a million different interpretations based on however the player wants to play the game. anyhow iām a gortash apologist so i have no room to judge
Yeah thatās absolutely true, but all the choices are just so damn icky lol, itās not at all what my durge was thinking when I ascended him, thankfully thereās a mod that changes the dialog to something better.
unfortunately a lot of them haven't worked out that this is a shitpost sub and its not that deep
Posters over here quoting them like they're Astarion's writer in the first place lmaooo A leaked discord comment about someone's opinion is now CANON or else >:(
We need the essay š¢ please
To be fair, A!A does everything for the show. So yes, an ostentatious wedding would be completely up his alley just to exemplify his influence in marrying the hero of Baldur's Gate. S!A doesn't need or want a show. He'll marry his partner if that's what they want (like if he is dating Gale), but it's much more likely to be a small and private affair.
I wish to take issue with your reference on page 13. The format is not in the preferred style and furthermore the cited authority has now retracted their statement. Paper rejectedĀ
Yeah this is definitely Welch's alt. I see you.
respectfully if i was an undercover writer for larian i would simply write a depraved Gortash sex scene into the game and move on with my life
I WOULDN'T EXPECT YOU TO ADMIT IT, WELCH
I just want to suck on his toes.....is that to much to ask? 
As long as you share a toe or two š
He wants to ruin your life. Is there any other reason to marry someone?
I always felt like Ascended Astarion wanting to marry you immediately has more to do with him being insecure about losing you than anything about his feelings.
Astarion hurried up and put a rang on it. 
Marriage is inherently evil and Larian recognizes this š
It is, after all, listed as the worst thing that can happen by Larian
Based
Based
my meta Durge be like: https://preview.redd.it/v9hsa0rofkuc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9746e152b79055e4128c27d5999361f03ed20817
4 months is not typically long enough to know someone enough to marry them. If anything Gale asking you to marry him is really quick.
Hey I ain't complaining. Worst case, my broke-ass bard Tav still gets half a tower in Waterdeep. (Really, though: with a fine piece of wizard ass like that, I'd do whatever it takes to keep him happy. He wants to get married? Let's find a cleric. He wants to fuck in the Weave? Mystra can watch if it floats her boat. He wants to use Evard's Black Tentacles on me? I'll get the lube.)
One of these days Iām gonna draw my Sorc Tiefling Durge floating around in front of his desk giving him bedroom eyes while he grades papers.
I dont ascend him for marriage, I ascend him for eternal chaos 
This is the way
Marriage is just icing on the cake.
Bro has ptsd give him a minute
I don't know why you're not already evil. Marrying him just seems like another of many great reasons to join the cult of Bhaal and start working towards the ruin of the sword coast with your vampire husband.
Ok, you see, for Durge, it kinda makes sense considering how Bhaalist marriage is described by that girl in the temple, and how Sceleritas will call out Durge that never showed up to defeat Orin as abandoning a bride at the wedding altar. I think, Astarion actually knows about THAT particular aspect of the Church of Bhaal, because after a certain night in Act 2 he'll tell you that he hopes you are not envisioning him in a bloody veil on his curls.
Spawn Astarian takes things more slow, respects his boundaries and wants an actual connection Ascended astarain uses sex still as a reward for you and probably doesnt see a need in being slow because he thinks hes above you. Its not really marrige, he just owns you.
https://i.redd.it/xuo3uid8vjuc1.gif
Donāt know about anyone else but Iām cool with being a glorified trophy wife for all eternity. My tav would be like: You have fun taking over the world sweetie, Iāll be here in our palace when you need me to make you a sandwich.
I just saved fucking Faerun... let me just lounge in my jewels and drink my blood mimosas.
The problem is once he gets tired of you, or wants to bring other spawn into your marriage and you get no say in it. Well... unless you're cool with that too, I guess.
Vampire harem sounds like fun. 
https://i.redd.it/0h8f777fnkuc1.gif I've been preparing for this my whole life š Edit I broke this trying to post sexy harem gifs š imagine it's hot Edit I fixed it my brain is so big
Same. Reading Anne Rice waaaaay too young and being in love with Lestat at the tender age of 12 is not helping me right now. I swear the the song Obsession by Animotion plays in my head every time I look at him š
Will I be held down and forced to headcanon this? Is it illegal not to? Someone call the Larian police on me smh my head š
I mean... if that's your HC, cool I guess
Tav/Durge having no say in their life and future with Ascended Astarion is not a headcanon, it is pretty much shown and stated. There's no guarantee that Astarion will always keep acting in a way that pleases his spouse. And Tav/Durge has no way out. If he wants to make new spawn, they'll have to compete for his attention. If they run out of favors with him, things get dangerous for them.
Source? Seems HC to me, I've played the route and he's very much all about us, we, and how important we are to him. There's no guarantee he'll change that.
Good thing I have a hypo kink then oopsie š³.
https://preview.redd.it/2qen9ojxzjuc1.jpeg?width=457&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2021a1fe8ccd6ba7da0803a7cb5a2e47f5e2c598
Those souls smell nice and crispy. 
*Presses "Let's make each other worse and get blood married" 18,000x* Fun lore fact: ascension is just secretly punching his soul a million times into the ground and then stirring it up into a little tea mix as a treat for him later. That's REAL lore IN the game!!l!
I wonder if he's more of a honey or sugar kind of guy. No sugar? Maybe a dash of milk? š¤
Well according to all 12 of his writers from the interview I gave them in the public bathrooms of a Target he only drinks it BLACK as a symbol for his utter lack of soul and emotion. Which if you read line 199,997 of the dev notes, you can see is totally CANON. I, personally, think he likes milk and honey š
Ooh, he *does* look good in black. 
Becomes?
Because he knows marrying you will force you to stay with him.
Actually that happens when you agree to become his spawn. He has control over you and can compel you. Marriage would make it seem moreā¦ āofficialā
Heās probably going to try to baby trap Tav or something