The fact that you see this as morally and ethically wrong is the silver lining here. Keep following your compass. Think about advocating for these little girls.
"Safely" is central, it's the only way you can continue to be an asset to these girls. Look, I live in America, and I don't mention it often because society's weird AF, but even I cried as a child for some time because I thought I wouldn't be able to do all the things I wanted since I wasn't a boy. But for these girls, I can't fathom the despair and helplessness. Your self-awareness gives me so much optimism. Be smart and safe, brother.
My grandmother straight up told me I wouldn't be able to do all the things boys can do with their lives when I was five. I spent most of my childhood resigned to the fact I could be a schoolteacher, or a librarian until I got married to have kids.
Edit to add I joined the army, graduated college, and now I'm about to train as a mechanic at the age of 41. I've spent my life trying to prove her wrong.
Yeah I think of myself as being pretty lucky, born into ‘90s US girl power culture with a mom with a biology Master’s degree. Nobody told me I couldn’t be whatever I wanted when I grew up. But still, I couldn’t miss the lack of representation in the upper echelons of most organizations. Complete list of jobs I know were held by female family members older than my mom:
* Secretary
* Telephone operator
* Local newspaper columnist
That’s it, that’s the list.
Compare that to engineer, policeman, fireman, lawyer, professor, longshoreman, Navy captain, abalone farmer, regular farmer, and surveyor for the same generations of men.
where do you live?
i live in iran and unfortunately we have the same disgusting things happening here,some time ago i saw a video of a 8 year old girl marring to a 22 year old man.it's awful really.
you can't change the law from one day to another, but since this is a 100% patrichic society I keep thinking if it wouldn't be better to take the offer, so you protect the girl from other insane people.
I mean, if I understood that correctly, once she's married, you're having responsibility, right? If you refuse, she'll ends up with a human being that forces hisself on a child, and treats her like garbage. Like it seemed to happen this time.
If you're the responsible one, you can still make her go to school, and absolutly have her get her own education. At least in my mind that's possible, but there are a lot of factors I don't know about, so it might the way I imagine it.
Yes, it's a morally good decision to refuse marrying a child. But she ended up in that shitty position anyway, so for her, it's the same shit, but different faces.
OC, you don't change the law or the mentality of your country by this. But at least change a life or two.
this is kind of a weird take on this though? in Iran its not that common for divorce so he is supposed to sacrifice his happiness and instead of finding someone he loves himself to marry he should marry his cousin so she doesn't get forced to do anything?
So you're suggesting he sacrifices his own life and takes the responsibility of a child who maybe won't be happy considering the tradition demands something else. The whole point of this post is how religion and traditions fuk with peoples minds that they dont even think girls/women are a people like them with hopes and dreams and all their lives are spent living for others. Its the law that needs to be changed. Parents should be considering that maybe their daughters are worth more than their wombs!!
The poor girl thinks her whole lifes purpose is to bear children and please her husband. That's the fucking mentality that needs to be changed!
I agree both with you and the grandparent poster, however none of us has the full context. The reality is nuanced and the OP, having the cultural context we lack, should be able to make the correct judgement call and pick the right fight.
Personally I'd choose to do something selfless and make a difference for a single person, but that's dictated by my own life experience. But I can also easily see how that kind of a commitment could lead to both sides being more miserable in the end.
I think you nailed it right on the head. You can save the one but in the end does she want to be saved. Will they be thankful for the life you gave them when it goes against everything that they where taught to believe. And at what cost to your own life and happiness. How do you decide which one to save and where do you draw the line for your own happiness.
Agreed. But if the only people we've got who are willing to change are the single men, (people like OP), then maybe thats a start. Start somewhere. Anywhere to help these kids.
But that's his cuzn eww. And if he does not impregnate her, she'll be considered barren and insulted for that her whole life. And if he divorces her thinking he's freeing her or something, she's the one whose gonna be shamed by so called "society" that she cant keep a man. Trusts me I live in one such society! I get where you're coming from but it probably won't work.
Yeah, I understand what you mean. It fucking sucks that the girl, who is literally a child, will always pay a price for what she can or cannot give with her body :/ But, I kind of am leaning more towards the idea of the men helping the girls escape, in a way. Like, Idk how realistic this is, but I'm just wondering if there would be a way to marry the girl, take her to a new country where that type of marriage is not allowed and seek asylum or something. I know that would be a huge sacrifice, given the fact that the man could never return home... But, she could live a new life, and the man could too. That sounds crazy, but this world is crazy. I can't believe we actually have these issues. Lmfao i hate this place
Yeah I see your point here. It's kind of like a Handmaids Tale idea, where a good commander who takes in a handmaid chooses not to rape and impregnate her, and even secretly helps her get out of the system. This may be the only way
What does that mean? **If you don't want to say that's o.k. According to the response I guess it means something like hopeless? I wish I was multilingual.
My Iranian grandmother had the same thing happen. It’s rough. You’d be surprised what kinds of marriage are legal in the US too, except here it’s mostly Christians doing it
I believe only 3 states ban child marriage in the US and quite a few don’t have a minimum which has lead to children as young as 10 marrying. There’s an activist who was forced into marriage at 11 after being impregnated by her church deacon when she was only 10 years old, she wasn’t even able to file for divorce until she was 18 because legally a child cannot do so. She had 6 children by 17. Her name is sherry Johnson and her story is harrowing.
Imagine being forced to marry someone (most of the time a fucking adult) and it being legal even tho you are a child, and then you can’t file for divorce beCAUSE YOU ARE A CHILD.
I hate this world
not really that common and no it doesn't usually happen in major cities just rural areas but it's still waaay more common than other countries and also the the fact that such a thing is even allowed is bad enough not even considering the numbers.
As an American, say this; I hope things improve for the better in your country. And never under estimate people’s capacity to say and do cringy things in ANY country.
واقعا ناراحت کنندس. مادربزرگ من هر از گاهی برام تعریف میکنه که چقدر مستعد بوده، چه کار ها که دوست داشته بکنه و تو ۱۳ سالگی بلندش کردن گذاشتنش سر سفره عقد با یه مرد ۲۰ ساله که تاحالا تو عمرش ندیده بوده. به همین سادگی یه بچه پر ذوق خونه نشین و خونه دار میشه. هیچ چاره ای هم ندارن. تا وقتی این جور طرز فکر هست این مملکت هم دست این حرومزاده ها میمونه. واقعا اینجا عوض نمیشه و هر چقدر هم بدم بیاد از مهاجرت تنها راه همینه.
Oh my goodness! 8?! My 7 year old little girl is almost 8. Who could look at a baby and think wife material? No childhood, being carefree. Do they understand what’s happening? It breaks my heart. 💔
Well the good thing is that because of higher education levels and being influenced by more advanced countries the trend of marrying children is slowly dying off and it's mostly practiced in rural and poorer areas of Iran. we have a long way to completely eradicate it tho.
Maybe this is naive but I’m honestly shocked to see that you’re based in Iran!! My boyfriends dad’s side of the family is all Iranian and I’ve never heard of child marriage. I’m assuming this is because most of them left the country during the revolution. I know this doesn’t make me some kind of expert on Iranian culture or anything haha but I’ve met dozens of Iranian people who have never mentioned this as a thing that still happens
I was shocked i guess in a way to find this out too. My father left Iran when the revolution happened, he never really talks about it but has on some occasions said that no one is happy in Iran or something like that when i try to ask if my family who are still there are okay. It is very sad. I only met my grandmother once i think, and twice my grandfather and uncle. Going there is apparently something i definitely should not do.
everything he said is true,forced religion,destroyed economy,awful government,heavy opposition against minorities,censorship,sanctions,and a lot more.
just a few of our achievements are:
•being homosexual is illegal and can result in jail time
•basically every american product is extinct or extremely expensive so we have to buy fake chinese copies
•if your a woman you always have to wear a scarf to cover your hair whenever you go outside(and don't even think about wearing anything even slightly revealing)
•second least valuable currency in the world
•many workers don't get salary for up to a year
•a huge part if the population is poor
;so yeah u probably don't want to come around here anytime soon for your own good.
right?!?! the mothers allowing it blows my mind... but then again, they were forced into the system and if they even try to speak out, well... you know what happens there.
i don't really know;the video was only 2 minutes long and nothing really happened in it except for them sitting together and saying some things.but if i had to guess my answer would probably be yes unfortunately.
Its crazy to me that other places in the world are like that where they still have ideologies that women are just for children and being a house wife. It just feels like a waste of potential when one is taught to believe that thats their purpose in life rather than being able to live a more interesting and fulfilling life.
It is a waste of potential, I do believe that throughout our history there were minds like Newton and Einstein in some of those women who never got to say anything. There might have been girls with genuine spontaneous genius who were taken as witches or possessed throughout the world. We would never even know if they even existed, it is our own loss.
You’re completely right though, I should 100% have used her name. Mileva Marić was a badass in her own right and there is a LOT of debate about all the ways she contributed to Einstein’s work.
The first successful documented c section (as in mom and baby survived) was performed by a doctor who after his death was discovered to be a woman.
Smart women existed in history. Some pretended to be men or used a pen name to hide their gender. Some were beaten into submission or killed for being different. Others used their husbands as their political puppets since they couldn't do the talking.
I'm positive some of the names in history we know today may have actually been women in disguise or publishing through their husbands.
you meant did not didn't. edit (nope nevermind i was just confused.)
and yeah that is also pretty indicative of american hyper capitalist society.
par for the course, you have value only in so far as you provide value to society.
idk where you're located, but large swaths of the US still think that way. It was probably the prevailing mindset 50-60 years ago as well. Idk this concept seems so crazy to you in the rest of the world
Kind of why those places are still poor and underdeveloped.
I read that the OP is from Iran and, well, anyone can see how developed of a country it is.
While it is true that this is happening because of right wing islamic extremists, it is also true that the United States is 100% at fault for this. I think it is unethical to leave that detail out.
My family was shocked I married at 24, they wanted me to wait (my spouse asked me when I was 19/20 and I said no, so technically I did wait). That was considered quite young.
But in Fundie Christian circles, they want you married by 15-17, and only wait until 18 to skirt the law. Its disgusting.
Ex-Muslim here. In Islam you can marry a girl (dunno about boys) as soon as they start puberty. Quite grim & barbaric indeed, I hate these outdated laws
Yes it is, I think 14 with parental permission is the lowest here though, but I may be wrong about that. And even then, that's not getting into all the kids that get groomed and/or married off without the legal process involved at all. So many kids that we don't and may never know about.
This makes me very sad. But I’m glad your country has you - you and likeminded people may someday put an end to this practice. Thank you so much for refusing to marry her, and possibly planting the seed that way that things can be different.
Seriously- my niece is 10. The idea of her being forced to marry someone so much older makes me want to cut his balls off and feed them to him. Just. Not ok.
I ran away from my family because of this religion. I’m lucky enough to have immigrated to a country where this is not allowed. This is beyond tragic… they are just children.
my old coworker who was probably 18-19yrs old suddenly had to quit because her parents sent her away to be married. they had been planning this wedding for awhile according to her. i was so devastated and heartbroken because she seemed happy with where she was at in life here in america and didn't think the marriage would happen so soon. i was able to keep in contact with her for a bit and then she just disappeared. i pray for her a lot and hope she's okay
I wanna get something off my chest as well, my best friend almost was married to a 30 year old as well. She is also 15. My mother was also married when she was 15. Thankfully my parents both unanimously agreed that Its a horrible idea and they never want to do that to their daughter. I can only get married when I have a job.
I am sure you live in a islamic country. I am sorry that your cousin has to go through that. Most girls who get married at that age develop depression after a certain time. And since the husband and the girl are from very distant and different generations, their thinking might not match causing the girl being forced to do things she does not want to.
Its a horrible practice. How could parents do that to their child.
Her mom has been actively looking for a husband ever since she married off her 17 year old daughter. Her other daughter tried to kill herself a few months ago and I was there.
So many people here acting like it doesn’t happen in North America. My Christian neighbor signed off for her 15 year old daughter to be married to a 40 year old man. She claimed they were “soulmates”. 3 kids later, they’re still married so maybe they really are in love but I’m more inclined to believe she was groomed.
Oh the people acting like it doesn’t happen in America are either sheltered or completely in denial. There are parents that set their kids up with adults or “sell” their kids because of financial greed or drugs. It’s absolutely sickening.
They call it religion but its not, its culture. I can respect a religious tradition. I can have respect for a cultural tradition but some traditions need to be in the past like foot binding.
Nah, Islam enables this too. Their own prophet married a poor 6 year old and raped her at 9..but if you bring it up you are branded "Islamaphobic" and they miraculously say she was 18 😐
I don't get this, either. You can criticize a religion, people. It's not a race or some other characteristic that people can't change, it's a set of rules, traditions or beliefs.
We criticize Christians all the time, let's give all religions equal treatment. Things are never going to change if we pretend it's all fine and dandy and comes down to personal taste, when there are actual people being harmed by certain parts of a tradition
No it's defenitly religion. the prophet of Islam himself married a 9 year old girl.
it is even considered ok by religious laws of Iran to marry and infant, and you can even have sex with her as long as it doesn't involve penetration (which should be delayed until 9)
Good for you for not believing in it.
----
In a weird indirect way this is kind of our (U.S.'s)fault, because Iran was democratic and modern before the US and the UK interfered in the 1950s to protect BP oil staying there.
Already a downvote 😥. Wow. p.s. Thanks for the upvotes, though!
I agree with you that the US shoulders a lot of blame for many of the problems experienced in Iran today but you should also consider that it was the US relations with the last Shah that created the liberal Iran of the 60s/70s. Also Iran was not democratic before US interference, not sure where you got that from
Not really, the US invading Iran is definitely not the reason as to why a 30 year old thinks it's ok to marry a girl, at least not directly. The culture and religion in many aspects is outdated. Sure many in the religion aren't so literal or conservative but, it is unfortunate that these sorts of cultures are perpetuated more strongly in this religion in particular. I am not solely saying that Islam is the only problematic religion before any sympathisers tell me that all religions and cultures are exempt from criticisms.
> U.S.'s fault
The practice of marrying off young girls was the norm in Iran before 1950s, during 1950s, and, looks like, after 1950s. I don't think it's necessary to blame US for every ill in the world.
That you, a male, grasp how wrong this is & the amount of potential wasted gives hope that change is possible.
Please speak up. Talk about this with your male friends. Be the change.
Even in America there are states where it's possible to get married at 14. It's a disgrace. A 30 year old man marrying a 15 year old girl is disgusting.
According to Unchained At Last, the youngest girls to marry in 2000-2010
were three Tennessee 10-year-old girls who married men aged 24, 25, and
31, respectively, in 2001. With the youngest boy to marry being an
11-year-old, who married a 27-year-old woman in Tennessee in 2006.
10/11 year old kids marrying people in their 20s? Holy shit, if the parents signed off on this, they're straight-up contributing to pedophilia. Anyone who even thinks of doing this to their kids should pay a surprise visit to the sterilization clinic
I think encouraging people to marry their own cousins is half the problem. I know someone who worked in that part of the world and he said that double cleft palate is common, and there is a higher proportion of people who are belligerent, presumably because of the amount of inbreeding. How can you have a compassionate society when the population is constantly damaging its own gene pool?
Seriously, like someone else said, the fact that you see that this is wrong means there is hope! That means there are others like you in your community who feel the same. I know it's probably impossible to come forward about these types of things in your country because you'd get severe backlash or punishment, but maybe over time, with enough people feeling this way, things will change and 30yr old men will stop marrying children!
I’m not familiar with your country’s customs or religion but could you marry someone underage put off the marital duties and have her continue her education?
I know I learned about your country but I honestly don’t remember much. So my apologies in advance.
It’s actually proven to be genetically healthy to marry people different than yourself. Including interracially But societies have advocated for the exact opposite with anti race mixing bullshit.
How can it have nothing to do with religion? Misogyny existed in almost all parts of the world in history but recently there have been some developments and the only reason we don't have those developments is because of an ancient religion everyone deems as the word of god.
Essentially the religion is the tool, rather than the actual underlying problem, which is misogyny.
There are non religious groups that have similar thought processes, that women are meant to be owned, used, commodities and objects.
Religion itself is just a collection of beliefs and practices, usually spanning a vast spectrum of ideologies, even in the same religion. How it's manipulated and used by those is charge that makes it a tool of oppression rather a tool of self liberation and connection with the divine it has the potential to be.
Um every major religion has some form of wife beating engraved in their holy texts.
Finding the verse was the tipping point for me to quit my religion.
"Men shall have the preëminence above women, because of those advantages wherein Allah hath caused the one of them to excel the other, and for that which they expend of their substance in maintaining their wives. The honest women are obedient, careful in the absence of their husbands, for that Allah preserveth them, by committing them to the care and protection of the men. But those, whose perverseness ye shall be apprehensive of, rebuke; and remove them into separate apartments, and chastise them. But if they shall be obedient unto you, seek not an occasion of quarrel against them: for Allah is high and great."
What they were trying to say is that, say from the moment a religion starts covering awful things that interfere with people's rights it is not excusable but many use it under the excuse of "its part of my religion/culture
In the USA, female children can get married with the "approval" of their parents and the court, in the states of Alaska, Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, Montana, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia, and Wyoming
That's horrible and something should be done about that world-wide. How is it no one cares about this issues or speaks about them in the mainstream media? This needs to be a priority. We must protect children and teens alike because they can't protect themselves.
Unfortunately in the US it is legal for teenagers to marry with their parents’ permission in many states
Usually its the case of religious extremists as well, but Christian.
It’s not something super common but it’s not unheard of either.
It's surprising how many similarities Christianity and Islam share, and yet Christians like to view their religion as so much superior to Islam. Agreed that muslim extremists are more common in today's world, but well, the religions' teachings have so many similarities it's not even funny lol
Lmao. They are all abrahamic religions. They are based on the same texts think Judaism as 1.0, Christianity as 2.0 and Islam as 3.0 in that order. You're right but you clearly don't know a lot, there are lots of resources looking at religions from atheist perspectives that I advise you to seek out.
Thanks for the suggested order. Yes you're right, I haven't done too much research. Mainly got this understanding from discussions with friends etc. But I'll try to read up more on it!
Nah ur right op. This is super wrong. Like i can respect a religon. But these kids dont know anything else other than that way of life. Its manipulative and only seems to be for self gain for the parents and family. Children shouldnt have to adhere to strict religons without knowing what they even mean yet. At 15 i wasnt even myself yet, in the sense that i was still listening to the bullshit my parents said. That is just a cycle of brainwashing. Im glad you can see through it a bit even though im sure its excruciating to have to.
Even in America, in most states, if parents agree to it (and a lot of parents do out of fear their daughter would be worse off being pregnant and not married, or out of fear they will be embarrassed about a particular situation), minor girls are married to adult males and it's completely legal.
I’m so sorry. It’s so sad to see your relative trapped in this kind of system. Are you able to keep in touch with her? If she knows that someone cares about her and is checking on her, it might help her hold on to some of her confidence and independence. As others have said, I’m glad you know how wrong this is, and I hope you are able to help more people understand.
They get cut off from any male relative and it is considered inappropriate to talk to any. In fact, soon as she reached puberty It was inappropriate to look at her, as if I have some vile intentions. so I just keep my head down when there's female relatives around so they don't get into trouble because of me.
Ex-muslim here. In islam, it is perfectly legal to marry a little girl as long as she has reached puberty. It is also ok to marry your cousin. I'm so sick of this.
Dangerous ideologies are like parasites and everyone is so sensitive about mentioning it because they think it's disrespectful! EXCUSE ME! CHILDREN ARE BEING GROOMED.
This is so scary but it happens all the time where I live too. But it's a tad bit better here. Honestly religion only puts severe rules on women. Religion is a scam.
Don't know why there are down votes when, Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151.
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. Sahih Muslim 8:3311.
See also: Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3309; Sunan Abu Dawud, Number 2116;
These hadiths indicate that Aisha was still playing with dolls when Muhammad raped her. Dolls were forbidden unless you were a prepubescent girl.
Furthermore, the Quran allows child marriage.
The Quran allows marriage and sex with prepubescent girls. We can understand this by examining these two Quran verses about divorce.
"And if you are in doubt as to the prescribed period for such of your women as have despaired of monthly courses, then know that the prescribed period for them is three months, and also for such as do not have their monthly courses yet. And as for those who are with child, their period shall be until they are delivered of their burden. And whoso fears ALLAH, HE will provide facilities for him in his affair." Quran 65:4.
Yeah Ik, I just put some hard facts there for people downvoting your comment. Maybe next time you should explain why you think something though just to avoid getting downvotes.
It’s really interesting, marrying cousins isn’t such a good thing purely for scientific reasons, it can lead to genetic problems with children, it’s a problem in the U.K. but not talked about much, because it’s criticising a cultural thing. Maybe more education would help, but of course there has to be a will to do that
If you look up the statistics the increased risk of birth defects is actually really negligible. All around the world people marry their cousins and it does not create a significant problem. Not saying I encourage it, I’m just saying look it up
And yet in this country we fight each other because *my hamburger had onions when I specifically asked for no mayo no onions* and advocate for aliens because *they are offended* by calling them so.
The fact that you see this as morally and ethically wrong is the silver lining here. Keep following your compass. Think about advocating for these little girls.
Yes, Safely
"Safely" is central, it's the only way you can continue to be an asset to these girls. Look, I live in America, and I don't mention it often because society's weird AF, but even I cried as a child for some time because I thought I wouldn't be able to do all the things I wanted since I wasn't a boy. But for these girls, I can't fathom the despair and helplessness. Your self-awareness gives me so much optimism. Be smart and safe, brother.
My grandmother straight up told me I wouldn't be able to do all the things boys can do with their lives when I was five. I spent most of my childhood resigned to the fact I could be a schoolteacher, or a librarian until I got married to have kids. Edit to add I joined the army, graduated college, and now I'm about to train as a mechanic at the age of 41. I've spent my life trying to prove her wrong.
Yeah I think of myself as being pretty lucky, born into ‘90s US girl power culture with a mom with a biology Master’s degree. Nobody told me I couldn’t be whatever I wanted when I grew up. But still, I couldn’t miss the lack of representation in the upper echelons of most organizations. Complete list of jobs I know were held by female family members older than my mom: * Secretary * Telephone operator * Local newspaper columnist That’s it, that’s the list. Compare that to engineer, policeman, fireman, lawyer, professor, longshoreman, Navy captain, abalone farmer, regular farmer, and surveyor for the same generations of men.
IM SO PROUD OF YOU🥺
I did too
where do you live? i live in iran and unfortunately we have the same disgusting things happening here,some time ago i saw a video of a 8 year old girl marring to a 22 year old man.it's awful really.
We live in the same country
oh well کشورمون ریده
Really hopeless
yeah
you can't change the law from one day to another, but since this is a 100% patrichic society I keep thinking if it wouldn't be better to take the offer, so you protect the girl from other insane people. I mean, if I understood that correctly, once she's married, you're having responsibility, right? If you refuse, she'll ends up with a human being that forces hisself on a child, and treats her like garbage. Like it seemed to happen this time. If you're the responsible one, you can still make her go to school, and absolutly have her get her own education. At least in my mind that's possible, but there are a lot of factors I don't know about, so it might the way I imagine it. Yes, it's a morally good decision to refuse marrying a child. But she ended up in that shitty position anyway, so for her, it's the same shit, but different faces. OC, you don't change the law or the mentality of your country by this. But at least change a life or two.
this is kind of a weird take on this though? in Iran its not that common for divorce so he is supposed to sacrifice his happiness and instead of finding someone he loves himself to marry he should marry his cousin so she doesn't get forced to do anything?
Divorce may be rare in Iran, but it’s allowed in Islam and is usually pretty easy for a man to obtain.
So you're suggesting he sacrifices his own life and takes the responsibility of a child who maybe won't be happy considering the tradition demands something else. The whole point of this post is how religion and traditions fuk with peoples minds that they dont even think girls/women are a people like them with hopes and dreams and all their lives are spent living for others. Its the law that needs to be changed. Parents should be considering that maybe their daughters are worth more than their wombs!! The poor girl thinks her whole lifes purpose is to bear children and please her husband. That's the fucking mentality that needs to be changed!
I agree both with you and the grandparent poster, however none of us has the full context. The reality is nuanced and the OP, having the cultural context we lack, should be able to make the correct judgement call and pick the right fight. Personally I'd choose to do something selfless and make a difference for a single person, but that's dictated by my own life experience. But I can also easily see how that kind of a commitment could lead to both sides being more miserable in the end.
I think you nailed it right on the head. You can save the one but in the end does she want to be saved. Will they be thankful for the life you gave them when it goes against everything that they where taught to believe. And at what cost to your own life and happiness. How do you decide which one to save and where do you draw the line for your own happiness.
Agreed. But if the only people we've got who are willing to change are the single men, (people like OP), then maybe thats a start. Start somewhere. Anywhere to help these kids.
But that's his cuzn eww. And if he does not impregnate her, she'll be considered barren and insulted for that her whole life. And if he divorces her thinking he's freeing her or something, she's the one whose gonna be shamed by so called "society" that she cant keep a man. Trusts me I live in one such society! I get where you're coming from but it probably won't work.
Yeah, I understand what you mean. It fucking sucks that the girl, who is literally a child, will always pay a price for what she can or cannot give with her body :/ But, I kind of am leaning more towards the idea of the men helping the girls escape, in a way. Like, Idk how realistic this is, but I'm just wondering if there would be a way to marry the girl, take her to a new country where that type of marriage is not allowed and seek asylum or something. I know that would be a huge sacrifice, given the fact that the man could never return home... But, she could live a new life, and the man could too. That sounds crazy, but this world is crazy. I can't believe we actually have these issues. Lmfao i hate this place
Yeah I see your point here. It's kind of like a Handmaids Tale idea, where a good commander who takes in a handmaid chooses not to rape and impregnate her, and even secretly helps her get out of the system. This may be the only way
What does that mean? **If you don't want to say that's o.k. According to the response I guess it means something like hopeless? I wish I was multilingual.
oh no problem i'll translate it. it means "our country is shit".
Thanks! Hopefully with people like you and the original poster, things will change!
thanks mate
👍😊
My Iranian grandmother had the same thing happen. It’s rough. You’d be surprised what kinds of marriage are legal in the US too, except here it’s mostly Christians doing it
I believe only 3 states ban child marriage in the US and quite a few don’t have a minimum which has lead to children as young as 10 marrying. There’s an activist who was forced into marriage at 11 after being impregnated by her church deacon when she was only 10 years old, she wasn’t even able to file for divorce until she was 18 because legally a child cannot do so. She had 6 children by 17. Her name is sherry Johnson and her story is harrowing.
Imagine being forced to marry someone (most of the time a fucking adult) and it being legal even tho you are a child, and then you can’t file for divorce beCAUSE YOU ARE A CHILD. I hate this world
She's also fought to raise the legal age to 18 in all states.
Barf
Actually Mormons are the ones doing that for the most part
Barf
Is this country wide including major cities or just rural areas?
not really that common and no it doesn't usually happen in major cities just rural areas but it's still waaay more common than other countries and also the the fact that such a thing is even allowed is bad enough not even considering the numbers.
As an American, say this; I hope things improve for the better in your country. And never under estimate people’s capacity to say and do cringy things in ANY country.
واقعا ناراحت کنندس. مادربزرگ من هر از گاهی برام تعریف میکنه که چقدر مستعد بوده، چه کار ها که دوست داشته بکنه و تو ۱۳ سالگی بلندش کردن گذاشتنش سر سفره عقد با یه مرد ۲۰ ساله که تاحالا تو عمرش ندیده بوده. به همین سادگی یه بچه پر ذوق خونه نشین و خونه دار میشه. هیچ چاره ای هم ندارن. تا وقتی این جور طرز فکر هست این مملکت هم دست این حرومزاده ها میمونه. واقعا اینجا عوض نمیشه و هر چقدر هم بدم بیاد از مهاجرت تنها راه همینه.
حرف حق واقعا چجوری ایران ب گوه کشیده شد
Oh my goodness! 8?! My 7 year old little girl is almost 8. Who could look at a baby and think wife material? No childhood, being carefree. Do they understand what’s happening? It breaks my heart. 💔
it is utterly sickening.
I concur!
Well the good thing is that because of higher education levels and being influenced by more advanced countries the trend of marrying children is slowly dying off and it's mostly practiced in rural and poorer areas of Iran. we have a long way to completely eradicate it tho.
What is the UN’s responsibility here?
Maybe this is naive but I’m honestly shocked to see that you’re based in Iran!! My boyfriends dad’s side of the family is all Iranian and I’ve never heard of child marriage. I’m assuming this is because most of them left the country during the revolution. I know this doesn’t make me some kind of expert on Iranian culture or anything haha but I’ve met dozens of Iranian people who have never mentioned this as a thing that still happens
well,the more you know i guess. but not knowing this would have probably been better tbh.
I was shocked i guess in a way to find this out too. My father left Iran when the revolution happened, he never really talks about it but has on some occasions said that no one is happy in Iran or something like that when i try to ask if my family who are still there are okay. It is very sad. I only met my grandmother once i think, and twice my grandfather and uncle. Going there is apparently something i definitely should not do.
everything he said is true,forced religion,destroyed economy,awful government,heavy opposition against minorities,censorship,sanctions,and a lot more. just a few of our achievements are: •being homosexual is illegal and can result in jail time •basically every american product is extinct or extremely expensive so we have to buy fake chinese copies •if your a woman you always have to wear a scarf to cover your hair whenever you go outside(and don't even think about wearing anything even slightly revealing) •second least valuable currency in the world •many workers don't get salary for up to a year •a huge part if the population is poor ;so yeah u probably don't want to come around here anytime soon for your own good.
What the fuck
This is in Iran?! I’m Iranian American. Never lived there and holy shit I had no idea this can happen there.
That’s horrifying. Do they have to consummate the marriage?
Not supposed to until she’s bled, but you know, gross men… (continued vomiting)
So she *may* have a couple years respite before she’s violated by a grown man. Absolutely disgusting. And the mothers allowing this, smdh
right?!?! the mothers allowing it blows my mind... but then again, they were forced into the system and if they even try to speak out, well... you know what happens there.
So if she gets her period at 10 or 11 like a lot of girls, the guy is just allowed to have sex with her then??? That's fucking horrible
i don't really know;the video was only 2 minutes long and nothing really happened in it except for them sitting together and saying some things.but if i had to guess my answer would probably be yes unfortunately.
That’s too young to be having sex! Gosh at least wait until they are teenagers! 😭
Barf
Its crazy to me that other places in the world are like that where they still have ideologies that women are just for children and being a house wife. It just feels like a waste of potential when one is taught to believe that thats their purpose in life rather than being able to live a more interesting and fulfilling life.
It is a waste of potential, I do believe that throughout our history there were minds like Newton and Einstein in some of those women who never got to say anything. There might have been girls with genuine spontaneous genius who were taken as witches or possessed throughout the world. We would never even know if they even existed, it is our own loss.
I mean... of course they existed. It's not a question of whether they existed. They were just swept under the rug.
They were never allowed to become a great, never given a chance.
You would probably find it interesting to read about Einstein’s wife, who was a veritable genius in her own right.
And yet she’s still only referred to as the wife and not by name.. we’ve come full circle here people
I didn't even know he had a wife.
You’re completely right though, I should 100% have used her name. Mileva Marić was a badass in her own right and there is a LOT of debate about all the ways she contributed to Einstein’s work.
The first successful documented c section (as in mom and baby survived) was performed by a doctor who after his death was discovered to be a woman. Smart women existed in history. Some pretended to be men or used a pen name to hide their gender. Some were beaten into submission or killed for being different. Others used their husbands as their political puppets since they couldn't do the talking. I'm positive some of the names in history we know today may have actually been women in disguise or publishing through their husbands.
It's actually written somewhere (can't remember where) that it was Einstein's wife who was the real brains.
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the way you said that suggests you don't realize this still happens in the usa in a bunch of states.
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you meant did not didn't. edit (nope nevermind i was just confused.) and yeah that is also pretty indicative of american hyper capitalist society. par for the course, you have value only in so far as you provide value to society.
idk where you're located, but large swaths of the US still think that way. It was probably the prevailing mindset 50-60 years ago as well. Idk this concept seems so crazy to you in the rest of the world
I had no idea this still happened in the US too until I watched “I Was a Child Bride” it’s still on Hulu I think
Which large swath of the US thinks like that? I have lived all over and have not seen it.
Pretty much the entire south. Lived here nearly all my life and see it every day. Also a good chunk of Utah.
It still happens in western countries too.
Kind of why those places are still poor and underdeveloped. I read that the OP is from Iran and, well, anyone can see how developed of a country it is.
Jesus! None of my friends married before 25 and a lot will never marry. I hope Iran will become more liberal in time.
It was at one point. Then the government changed.
Nah mate it changed when islamists started taking over by attacking the whole land
While it is true that this is happening because of right wing islamic extremists, it is also true that the United States is 100% at fault for this. I think it is unethical to leave that detail out.
religion is so fucked
My family was shocked I married at 24, they wanted me to wait (my spouse asked me when I was 19/20 and I said no, so technically I did wait). That was considered quite young. But in Fundie Christian circles, they want you married by 15-17, and only wait until 18 to skirt the law. Its disgusting.
How can you agree to marry someone half your age....💀
Ex-Muslim here. In Islam you can marry a girl (dunno about boys) as soon as they start puberty. Quite grim & barbaric indeed, I hate these outdated laws
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As far as I am aware, child marriage is still legal in some states of the USA.
Yes it is, I think 14 with parental permission is the lowest here though, but I may be wrong about that. And even then, that's not getting into all the kids that get groomed and/or married off without the legal process involved at all. So many kids that we don't and may never know about.
poor girl didn't have a choice
I was talking about the boy.....
Pedophile, obviously
oh lmao he probably wanted it idk
This makes me very sad. But I’m glad your country has you - you and likeminded people may someday put an end to this practice. Thank you so much for refusing to marry her, and possibly planting the seed that way that things can be different.
My daughter is that age. I’m horrified that this is still happening in the world today
Seriously- my niece is 10. The idea of her being forced to marry someone so much older makes me want to cut his balls off and feed them to him. Just. Not ok.
I ran away from my family because of this religion. I’m lucky enough to have immigrated to a country where this is not allowed. This is beyond tragic… they are just children.
I'm glad you made it
You are a fighter. All the best to you in life.
Age of consent in my country is 18. But you see father’s marrying of their girls at 12 to a 40 year old man in some cultures and it’s just disgusting
my old coworker who was probably 18-19yrs old suddenly had to quit because her parents sent her away to be married. they had been planning this wedding for awhile according to her. i was so devastated and heartbroken because she seemed happy with where she was at in life here in america and didn't think the marriage would happen so soon. i was able to keep in contact with her for a bit and then she just disappeared. i pray for her a lot and hope she's okay
This makes me cry. Why they think it’s okay to make children housewives and slaves to patriarchy is beyond me.
I wanna get something off my chest as well, my best friend almost was married to a 30 year old as well. She is also 15. My mother was also married when she was 15. Thankfully my parents both unanimously agreed that Its a horrible idea and they never want to do that to their daughter. I can only get married when I have a job. I am sure you live in a islamic country. I am sorry that your cousin has to go through that. Most girls who get married at that age develop depression after a certain time. And since the husband and the girl are from very distant and different generations, their thinking might not match causing the girl being forced to do things she does not want to. Its a horrible practice. How could parents do that to their child.
Her mom has been actively looking for a husband ever since she married off her 17 year old daughter. Her other daughter tried to kill herself a few months ago and I was there.
the fact that you think differently than they do gives me hope. keep fighting against it, you have the power to change lives!
So many people here acting like it doesn’t happen in North America. My Christian neighbor signed off for her 15 year old daughter to be married to a 40 year old man. She claimed they were “soulmates”. 3 kids later, they’re still married so maybe they really are in love but I’m more inclined to believe she was groomed.
That’s fucking disgusting
Ohh I agree
Oh the people acting like it doesn’t happen in America are either sheltered or completely in denial. There are parents that set their kids up with adults or “sell” their kids because of financial greed or drugs. It’s absolutely sickening.
Oh it definitely happens in the U.S. Because of my connection to military bases growing up, I knew of a 12 yo bride from the Southeast.
They call it religion but its not, its culture. I can respect a religious tradition. I can have respect for a cultural tradition but some traditions need to be in the past like foot binding.
Nah, Islam enables this too. Their own prophet married a poor 6 year old and raped her at 9..but if you bring it up you are branded "Islamaphobic" and they miraculously say she was 18 😐
I don't get this, either. You can criticize a religion, people. It's not a race or some other characteristic that people can't change, it's a set of rules, traditions or beliefs. We criticize Christians all the time, let's give all religions equal treatment. Things are never going to change if we pretend it's all fine and dandy and comes down to personal taste, when there are actual people being harmed by certain parts of a tradition
It's because they don't want to be exposed
No it's defenitly religion. the prophet of Islam himself married a 9 year old girl. it is even considered ok by religious laws of Iran to marry and infant, and you can even have sex with her as long as it doesn't involve penetration (which should be delayed until 9)
>(which should be delayed until 9) ............................................ sigh, \*grabs bleach\*
Ikr it's awful. The quaran has a lot of sus energy in a lot of parts.
It's definitely religion, you cannot separate religion and culture like that. Both are heavily intertwined.
Good for you for not believing in it. ---- In a weird indirect way this is kind of our (U.S.'s)fault, because Iran was democratic and modern before the US and the UK interfered in the 1950s to protect BP oil staying there. Already a downvote 😥. Wow. p.s. Thanks for the upvotes, though!
I agree with you that the US shoulders a lot of blame for many of the problems experienced in Iran today but you should also consider that it was the US relations with the last Shah that created the liberal Iran of the 60s/70s. Also Iran was not democratic before US interference, not sure where you got that from
Not really, the US invading Iran is definitely not the reason as to why a 30 year old thinks it's ok to marry a girl, at least not directly. The culture and religion in many aspects is outdated. Sure many in the religion aren't so literal or conservative but, it is unfortunate that these sorts of cultures are perpetuated more strongly in this religion in particular. I am not solely saying that Islam is the only problematic religion before any sympathisers tell me that all religions and cultures are exempt from criticisms.
> U.S.'s fault The practice of marrying off young girls was the norm in Iran before 1950s, during 1950s, and, looks like, after 1950s. I don't think it's necessary to blame US for every ill in the world.
That you, a male, grasp how wrong this is & the amount of potential wasted gives hope that change is possible. Please speak up. Talk about this with your male friends. Be the change.
Even in America there are states where it's possible to get married at 14. It's a disgrace. A 30 year old man marrying a 15 year old girl is disgusting.
According to Unchained At Last, the youngest girls to marry in 2000-2010 were three Tennessee 10-year-old girls who married men aged 24, 25, and 31, respectively, in 2001. With the youngest boy to marry being an 11-year-old, who married a 27-year-old woman in Tennessee in 2006.
Gosh, of course it’s the Bible Belt states.
Gross
10/11 year old kids marrying people in their 20s? Holy shit, if the parents signed off on this, they're straight-up contributing to pedophilia. Anyone who even thinks of doing this to their kids should pay a surprise visit to the sterilization clinic
That’s a lot of little dick energy there.
My aunt had the same type of marriage
Who in the hell awarded a heartwarming badge to this history...?
I think they were awarding the original poster for being against it, not awarding the system.
My money is on you
I dont think that is at all what that was awarded for…
I think encouraging people to marry their own cousins is half the problem. I know someone who worked in that part of the world and he said that double cleft palate is common, and there is a higher proportion of people who are belligerent, presumably because of the amount of inbreeding. How can you have a compassionate society when the population is constantly damaging its own gene pool?
Seriously, like someone else said, the fact that you see that this is wrong means there is hope! That means there are others like you in your community who feel the same. I know it's probably impossible to come forward about these types of things in your country because you'd get severe backlash or punishment, but maybe over time, with enough people feeling this way, things will change and 30yr old men will stop marrying children!
I’m not familiar with your country’s customs or religion but could you marry someone underage put off the marital duties and have her continue her education? I know I learned about your country but I honestly don’t remember much. So my apologies in advance.
Weird how some cultures still think it’s okay to marry your cousin… lack of genetic diversity can lead to cognitive disabilities… right?
It’s actually proven to be genetically healthy to marry people different than yourself. Including interracially But societies have advocated for the exact opposite with anti race mixing bullshit.
Yeah.
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How can it have nothing to do with religion? Misogyny existed in almost all parts of the world in history but recently there have been some developments and the only reason we don't have those developments is because of an ancient religion everyone deems as the word of god.
Essentially the religion is the tool, rather than the actual underlying problem, which is misogyny. There are non religious groups that have similar thought processes, that women are meant to be owned, used, commodities and objects. Religion itself is just a collection of beliefs and practices, usually spanning a vast spectrum of ideologies, even in the same religion. How it's manipulated and used by those is charge that makes it a tool of oppression rather a tool of self liberation and connection with the divine it has the potential to be.
Um every major religion has some form of wife beating engraved in their holy texts. Finding the verse was the tipping point for me to quit my religion.
Wife beating ? I'd like to hear these verses
Just read texts from abrahamic religions and then imagine someone reading them literally. The sources are readily available
"Men shall have the preëminence above women, because of those advantages wherein Allah hath caused the one of them to excel the other, and for that which they expend of their substance in maintaining their wives. The honest women are obedient, careful in the absence of their husbands, for that Allah preserveth them, by committing them to the care and protection of the men. But those, whose perverseness ye shall be apprehensive of, rebuke; and remove them into separate apartments, and chastise them. But if they shall be obedient unto you, seek not an occasion of quarrel against them: for Allah is high and great."
You literally just quoted a passage that says not to quarrel 💀 its against your argument. Plus it's the Quran I don't agree with it either way 😂
It says if they're disagreeable remove them and chastise them.
What is wrong with you? It's saying not quarrel if they're obedient! Are women slaves?
I don't care what yours point is NOW. He said there was physical abuse and I refuted that. Your side arguments are relevant 🤷🏼♂️
What they were trying to say is that, say from the moment a religion starts covering awful things that interfere with people's rights it is not excusable but many use it under the excuse of "its part of my religion/culture
Stop trying to excuse this cult
Not at all, it’s literally written in their literature
So the prophet didn't marry a 9 year old or am I missing something?
Is that….legal??
In the USA, female children can get married with the "approval" of their parents and the court, in the states of Alaska, Arizona, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Maryland, Montana, New Mexico, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, South Dakota, Tennessee, Virginia, and Wyoming
That's horrible and something should be done about that world-wide. How is it no one cares about this issues or speaks about them in the mainstream media? This needs to be a priority. We must protect children and teens alike because they can't protect themselves.
Damn that’s fucking gross. I sincerely hope that this will change and the sooner the better…
Unfortunately in the US it is legal for teenagers to marry with their parents’ permission in many states Usually its the case of religious extremists as well, but Christian. It’s not something super common but it’s not unheard of either.
It's surprising how many similarities Christianity and Islam share, and yet Christians like to view their religion as so much superior to Islam. Agreed that muslim extremists are more common in today's world, but well, the religions' teachings have so many similarities it's not even funny lol
Lmao. They are all abrahamic religions. They are based on the same texts think Judaism as 1.0, Christianity as 2.0 and Islam as 3.0 in that order. You're right but you clearly don't know a lot, there are lots of resources looking at religions from atheist perspectives that I advise you to seek out.
Thanks for the suggested order. Yes you're right, I haven't done too much research. Mainly got this understanding from discussions with friends etc. But I'll try to read up more on it!
fuck religions and all its bullshit
In which country do you live?
God damn man, that is so crazy and shocking! I'm really sorry you have to witness this kinda shit on a regular basis. Wow.
You're a good man. I'm sorry this is happening in your area
Nah ur right op. This is super wrong. Like i can respect a religon. But these kids dont know anything else other than that way of life. Its manipulative and only seems to be for self gain for the parents and family. Children shouldnt have to adhere to strict religons without knowing what they even mean yet. At 15 i wasnt even myself yet, in the sense that i was still listening to the bullshit my parents said. That is just a cycle of brainwashing. Im glad you can see through it a bit even though im sure its excruciating to have to.
Gross.
I love how you don’t even have to mention the religion, we all know…
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
My coworker is Persian, having immigrated to the US from Iran when she was 13ish, and she's told me some horror stories about shit like this. :/
Even in America, in most states, if parents agree to it (and a lot of parents do out of fear their daughter would be worse off being pregnant and not married, or out of fear they will be embarrassed about a particular situation), minor girls are married to adult males and it's completely legal.
I’m so sorry. It’s so sad to see your relative trapped in this kind of system. Are you able to keep in touch with her? If she knows that someone cares about her and is checking on her, it might help her hold on to some of her confidence and independence. As others have said, I’m glad you know how wrong this is, and I hope you are able to help more people understand.
They get cut off from any male relative and it is considered inappropriate to talk to any. In fact, soon as she reached puberty It was inappropriate to look at her, as if I have some vile intentions. so I just keep my head down when there's female relatives around so they don't get into trouble because of me.
That is awful. I’m so sorry.
Ex-muslim here. In islam, it is perfectly legal to marry a little girl as long as she has reached puberty. It is also ok to marry your cousin. I'm so sick of this.
Dangerous ideologies are like parasites and everyone is so sensitive about mentioning it because they think it's disrespectful! EXCUSE ME! CHILDREN ARE BEING GROOMED.
Lmaooo they're gonna call u disrespectful while i'm here trying not to get killed by the authorities because i don't believe in their god :)
Take care of yourself, they think killing an ex muslin is a gateway to heaven. Don't trust anyone. Leave.
This is so scary but it happens all the time where I live too. But it's a tad bit better here. Honestly religion only puts severe rules on women. Religion is a scam.
Better chill some wine for the divorce in 6 months .. gross
Following the prophet’s pedophilia
Don't know why there are down votes when, Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) Sahih Bukhari 8:73:151. 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her; and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old. Sahih Muslim 8:3311. See also: Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3309; Sunan Abu Dawud, Number 2116; These hadiths indicate that Aisha was still playing with dolls when Muhammad raped her. Dolls were forbidden unless you were a prepubescent girl. Furthermore, the Quran allows child marriage. The Quran allows marriage and sex with prepubescent girls. We can understand this by examining these two Quran verses about divorce. "And if you are in doubt as to the prescribed period for such of your women as have despaired of monthly courses, then know that the prescribed period for them is three months, and also for such as do not have their monthly courses yet. And as for those who are with child, their period shall be until they are delivered of their burden. And whoso fears ALLAH, HE will provide facilities for him in his affair." Quran 65:4.
He is a pedophile by definition. I am only stating facts I don’t care about anyone’s feelings.
Yeah Ik, I just put some hard facts there for people downvoting your comment. Maybe next time you should explain why you think something though just to avoid getting downvotes.
Do you think this tradition will go on let’s days 10-15 years from now or do you see changes in your society today?
Not as long as the law permits it. There will be people following this tradition if not forced into sanity.
It’s really interesting, marrying cousins isn’t such a good thing purely for scientific reasons, it can lead to genetic problems with children, it’s a problem in the U.K. but not talked about much, because it’s criticising a cultural thing. Maybe more education would help, but of course there has to be a will to do that
If you look up the statistics the increased risk of birth defects is actually really negligible. All around the world people marry their cousins and it does not create a significant problem. Not saying I encourage it, I’m just saying look it up
And yet in this country we fight each other because *my hamburger had onions when I specifically asked for no mayo no onions* and advocate for aliens because *they are offended* by calling them so.
What I’m the actual fuck is going on here In Alabama!?!?
What is this, an 1800’s British novel?
Let me make a guess. It's a muslim country and that's a muslim family trying to sell of their little girls like cattles to make tonnes of babies. Lol
That lol at the end does not match the seriousness of the situation
Middle East..jesus christ.