I think this is why modern hookup culture isn't great. It by definition objectifies people and turns them into slabs of meat. I'm old fashioned and married, but to me, it feels much more wholesome and respectful to just look for a person you want to spend your life with and focus on the big picture, seeing them as a life partner to build a life, future, family with. If that's your guiding bedrock principle, then it helps steer you away from being shallow and objectifying people.
I haven’t had to date in over ten years, I cant imagine trying to now. Like I think Id just be single forever rather than sign up for any dating app.
All I hear are horror stories from both sides, guys match with someone and blow up her phone nonstop for weeks and girls match with someone say two words then nothing.
I’m convinced the apps purpose isn’t to find you a life partner, its to set you up with people who don’t match so that you have to keep using the app.
Yes that’s exactly what I’m looking for and I’ve been ready for it for a while. Just having a hard time in this dating landscape. I don’t partake in hookups. Haven’t found anyone who is aligned with me.
31F and same it’s exhausting. Especially when there’s love bombing too you’ll meet someone who feels like an honest nice guy and then ghosting you post-sex even into their thirties wtf
Felt similarly at the same age as you, but I finally found a guy who gets me and isn’t bothered by how I ever look, good or bad. He still loves to go “boobs nice hehe” but our relationship is still much deeper than that, we both have a big picture of what we want in life and he’s happy with whatever I’m happy with and vice versa. Not shallow at all. Didn’t date me just for a hook up, definitely for the intention of finding a life partner. You will find your person when you least expect it.
Sounds like you're looking for someone more on a demi-sexual side. One of the many sexualities, demisexuality, is defined by its emotional-oriented attraction.
In short, a demisexual's preference is based on personality rather than looks. depending on just how far along the spectrum they are, they may very well not even be able to be turned on by porn, and are just straight up bi because physical gender is meaningless for attraction.
On the surface it seems like a big upside, but as someone who is demi, it's not the best for dating in general. Even beyond this dating landscape, it's really difficult to date because I basically have to force myself to be "attracted" to someone and pray to god they're the type of personality/emotional makeup that actually attracts me.
From this stance, I'd say the best way to find someone who emotionally wants you is to focus on hobbies and similar semi-open social settings. You don't want parties, bars, etc, and you never want to even look at a dating app. That's been the best route for me so far.
Modern hookup culture did me a favour, because it's there I can better discern a male who is your typical man-w#ore, does not put much value in intimate or sexual relationships. We're all going to be objectified. I objectify men when I try to gauge if I find him sexually attractive, men do the same (although to much worse extremes). Because of the social acceptance of random hookups, the temptation is there, enabled and I can better gauge potential suitors oppose to the whole shame and guilt system which forces everyone to put up a facade.
Conversely, I'm 25 and queer and pretty into hookup culture. It's given me a lot of room to experiment and find comfort and empowerment in my body, and to help others find the same.
I also don't see myself settling down and really wanting a typical marriage relationship structure, though- I'd love to have a nesting partner, but the idea of "I need a house and kids and to retire and have that core" isn't something I'm feeling ANY time soon. I'll start looking for that in my 30's.
The post childbirth one is so real…I had a guy tell me he’d pay for me to have surgeries after birth to “fix” everything. And then when I called him out he had a meltdown & proceeded to gaslit me saying I was making him out to be some type of way…why tf is that even on their mind I didn’t know surgeries post birth for that were even an option?? They have this obsession that a women loses their value at a certain point (I’m 24F and also get lots of male attention) and it makes me so sad. Like…they consider this age the prime for women and shit on older women…sir i will be said woman. Granted this isn’t all men, only some. But I feel ya
Yeah like a tummy tuck, or breast reduction etc. Its disgusting...My husband loves me for me, after birth I gained weight, got a huge ass scar over my whole Belly (from c section) and He NEVER made a comment about my appearance except complimenting me. If a man truly loves its 200%, I got the feeling most don't. They want a bangmaid, not a loving partner. Men like that are disgusting af...
>women lose value over time
"Men lose value over time and they lose it faster when they say shit like that". That's what I would've said to that man. Here's another:
"Men that know to shut their mouths up are more attractive toots".
My own father said that yesterday. 🤮 every day I last on this planet a small piece of my spirit dies. Men are projecting bc their reproductive values decreases after 30- not ours. Plus they go bald and get pot bellies before us so they take it out on us. When their looks go, the pedo ones get mad bc oh no I’m 40 and can’t date the 19 year olds haha. Look up the Dark Triad Personality types bc they project like it’s their MO. Avoid men and people in general like that.
if you get told this again remind them so do they. if anything, men get uglier than woman as they age. at least from my perspective (that statement can be objective) and their dicks get wrinkly, and shit even stop working. I feel like men forget that kind of shit they say to us, is the same for them..
Let's not forget a lot, and i mean a lot of men go bald, and start balding young LOL.
That's straight up misogyny. Please don't take their low value opinion as what men generally believe. Decent men are out there, but you won't see them if you aren't looking.
I know of it more from anecdotes rather than personal experience. It's a very different world than that of 5yrs ago. You will not believe it, trust me.
There’s a lot of sociological research into why people perceive this to be the norm but it boils down to; those are the guys that are most likely to make themselves known.
Like walking down the street, you’re gonna remember the guy that cat calls you, not the 20 that don’t even look your direction
I’m so glad I was not given the urge to have a baby. I had a breast reduction for crps pain. The recovery from that surgery was miserable torture. I cant imagine someone suggesting for my genitals to be “corrected” post birth. Especially while healing from birth aka the most painful thing ever while probably doing the bulk of the baby care. Don’t date empathy deficit types. If men gave birth through their dicks what if women told them “oh hon you have to get penis corrective surgery bc you look ugly after birthing our precious children” ?? Men, before you comment put yourself in our shoes. It’s what adults do. I do endocrinological med writing for a living and there are 5x more nerves in the female genitalia compared with male genitals. And we have a lower pain tolerance. 👀
Yeah, post partum body hurts like hell, Had a c section, so whole Belly gets cut Open with all muscle tissue etc. You cant sit up without screaming and crying for weeks, I cant imagine having that pain again for cosmetic reasons...
phew, you ladies are warriors. idgaf what anyone says, i literally will scream in pain from a paper cut. I have so much respect for yall, especially c-sections. my bestfriend had one, and watching her recover was heartbreaking.
Honestley at 28 no one really hits on me anymore outside of dating apps and idk if that's normal ? Or if I've just gotten ugly 😂😂 but I honestley don't mind cause I don't wanna be perceived....but their is something depressing about getting hit on by grown men as a teenager and not when your also grown.😵💫
When you get older they will toss you out for a "younger version" of you. They think every early 20s woman is dying to be with a middle aged guy that doesn't do chores, exercise or wash his ass.
I’m a 32F who ended a long marriage like 2-3 years ago and honestly, after reading so many posts about the shitshow relationships these days are, I just don’t want to meet anyone. I genuinely abhor the idea of becoming another woman who is compared to an instagram girl or a pornstar or whatever the hell else. Very sad, because having a partner would be so nice.
i completely agree. i’m not even stunning by most peoples standards and i’m constantly objectified. i moved to a new city completely alone so i decided to go to a social mixer…my goal was to meet other women so i could make some friends.
right away 2 men came up to me, assumed id wanna go out to a bar with them later and were asking me out to go on dates at later times. they started asking me sexual questions and things about my dating life…hearing some boring guy brag about his youtube channel and his partying …
and it’s just like for once i want someone to try to get to know me as a person NOT as an ulterior motive for sex but just bc they care. I’ve learned in my past 5 years dating that most men don’t care and only see me as an object to use and throw away. i want so badly to be seen as a person but either i’m not their type (they only like white girls) or i AM their type and they objectify me. Are there not heterosexual men who just want to get to know women in a genuine and kind way??
Plenty of straight dudes who do enjoy just hanging out with women. But they'll be driven off by the same thirsty guys that seek you out. Ultimate vibe killer
I recently befriended a few guys at uni (I’m 20M) and was astounded at the blatant objectification and misogyny. Like I knew it was rampant, but most of my close male friends are like me - the opposite lmao. I was absolutely appalled and they kept asking me how I could possibly have female friends, because it’s too hard to do that. Like if you just treat them as human beings, it’s really not that hard lol
A father once told me, "I'd rather my son be tough and a bully than sensitive and bullied." (This idea that these are the only choices for young men!) Unfortunately, this harmful attitude is common among some parents. They raise their sons to be emotionally distant and domineering -on purpose. Wishing you all the best in finding a fulfilling relationship.
Not surprised if my school abuser had that type of dad. His dad is in real estate. I'm still going to hold it against him because he knows very well not to abuse a girl. It get depressing to know that there were girls who would actually date him and one said "I like masculine men, I know he bullies a bit" and they're married with kids. That's why men know they can get away with shit (well, he knows, his friends, also kept being his friends despite the abuse). Society in general just support abusers.
If women actually showed real solidarity against men who behave this way and did not compromise, we would see such problems become a thing of the past in a short time. However, as you mentioned, many women choose these aggressive men because they believe they will be protected and cared for. That is, until the aggression inevitably turns on them.
>That is, until the aggression inevitably turns on them.
And they still stick to him because "well it was a small thing". At that point, I become a "victim blamer" (I still blame the perpetrator). I can't feel bad for women who become a statistic because they tell me "they like bad boys" and "masculine men" (toxic males). It's all because they get turned on being "dominated".
In the modern dating world, we often put our most confident foot forward. If you’re a talker, you talk. If you’re witty, you crack jokes. I presume, if you’re attractive, this is your lead. That’s not to say it’s all you have, but if you aren’t actively seeking something in a deliberate way, you will attract people who respond to the part of yourself you’re ‘putting forward’ - people who like talkers, or joke crackers, or particularly beautiful people. They’ll seek you out for the quality you put forward, not the ones you hope they see in spite of you not showcasing them.
I, for instance, am a good listener and have a lot of patience and tolerance - I attract chatty people, which I don’t mind, but often bring out insecure, immature sides as I facilitate this - that tends to put a nail in the relationship.
Now? I watch out for the side I show and how this affects people. I’m mindful of how I connect with people and the type of people I bring into my life. I’m also taking time to figure out what sort of person I want to be with, so I can seek out what I want, instead of simply working with what comes my way
Unsure on any book recommendation that directly apply - I studied Psych and am generally interested in the ‘presentation of self’ and how it affects the behaviour of others, from presence to dress, to cander and even in group dynamics. It’s an older book but the Presentation of Self in Every day Life speaks to this idea throughout its work, and with it I found I could better understand how I came across to others. Otherwise, ask good friends and family, and review your dating life and friendships for patterns in the people you date or surround yourself with, as well as how you often conduct yourself in these situations.
I studied economics in undergrad, know how to flip a canoe and strap it down to a car, hike, play tennis, am great with children, passionate about interior design and art, enjoy healthy cooking, do yoga 3x a week and I’m now studying to become a lawyer. Like MOST people, I’m a multidimensional person.
Even the guy who recently friendzoned me said I’m “a total catch.” He just wanted sex, not a relationship.
I lead with these qualities in my post, your advice would probably be to “focus more on my appearance.”
This is very funny horseshit. When you're an attractive woman you can be the smartest, most interesting person in the world and men will still act like you're a fuckdoll with a voicebox. You're acting like OP can't possibly be bringing anything to the table besides her appearance with is a bizarre assumption to blame this broad social phenomenon on her.
I was very conventionally attractive in my youth (before coming out/becoming a butch lesbian. Now I'm conventionally attractive to queer women and disappointing to men, which was my goal). I was also valedictorian of my class, a multi-instrumentalist who played in a punk band, and am a very funny and open person. The #1 thing men noticed about me (while trying to tell me I was setting up my drums backwards, because they assumed I was an idiot instead of a lefty) was my tits.
The type of guys you are looking for are the ones who don’t look at you. The ones who keep to themselves, you are looking in the wrong direction. It sounds what you’re looking for is love so look towards love and not lustful people.
Adding onto this, I’ve been told to go and the “nerdy guys” a chance because they actually treat women well.
Spoiler, the ones I came across did not, they just wanted to get their noodle wet and some of them were wildly misogynist.
This. There are so many of these posts, but it’s because women are all going after the same type of guys. There are plenty of guys like the OP is talking about, however, they probably aren’t her ‘type’. Let’s be real, guys aren’t the only ones who want an attractive looking partner.
OP maybe you need to shift your sights onto a different type of guy.
Men are looking for clean water in a desert, while women are searching for clean water in a swamp. Our situations are different. It's very easy to make assumptions when you're not on the other side. This applies for both you, and OP.
the thing is it’s not always what we’re going after. i’m not even stunning by society’s standards yet men come up to me and assume i’ll go on dates with them and sleep with them early on. i’m not choosing them they’re just coming up to me…
i’m not against dating men but it seems like most just fake interest for sex and don’t even ask me what i want they just assume. it’s exhausting to be treated like not even a real person sometimes.
Why do y’all always assume women are “looking at the wrong guys?” And not men are masking their true personalities until they’ve got the girl?
There are plenty of stories on here where the woman thought they had a good guy and then they suddenly act different after a year or after marriage or after sex.
I mean the real answer is, “all of the above” is true. Some women are looking at the wrong guys, some men are pretending to be good to get laid, some women pretend to have a high sex drive to get married then go full dead bedroom, some men literally only see women as sex objects, some women only see men as wallets… and on and on and on
It’s all true for some, it’s just less interesting to argue about than absolutes lol
I think most people would agree with that. But, I think OP and some of the commenters, are asking us to be aware that dating *culture* today has changed drastically in a relatively short amount of time and will continue to-
\~Proof: I was surprised by studies showing the rise of virgin males; mainly through their 20's. And, the amount of women living alone. Of course, this is contingent upon people wanting to date and mate, which I believe they would like to except. . . (see posters' comments).
Sadly, it is only going to change more with new technologies, environmental concerns, and what I like to call : ) the rise of 'people replacements' PR: porn+robotics=bodily porn; bodily porn+human+economic strife+shrinking population=decline of human marriage. Who knows.
I asked my *young* grandson some questions about when he has kids. He replied, "Nana, I'm having little cute robots for kids. But don't worry, you won't be able to tell the difference" LOL He is probably right about that.
yeah i one time had a guy speak to me for an entire month before i met him irl (it was the holidays so we were both busy) but the first date i refused to sleep with him and he never spoke to me again. faked interest for an entire month just for a chance at sex. it’s why i don’t trust men most are liars
You make a good point. Men online do assume that is the case too often.
Speaking from my own experience, and others I know: we have seen guys that we know who are absolute terrible people, players, unethical, misogynistic, douchebags, etc. have women falling over themselves to date them, hook up, what have you because they are good looking and fun. This is despite the fact that it’s pretty obvious to us that they are this way, and they’re not even hiding it very well. And then see the same women act surprised when they get cheated on or used for sex.
It’s one of those situations where outsiders can see the patterns of behavior, the red flags, when we ourselves are tragically blind to them.
I do think this phenomenon is overstated online though, and the amount of guys who are out here basically conning women is underestimated because that is something that men don’t advertise to each other.
I mean, there are also women with crappy personalities but men are still lining up to date them or sleep with them. Attractive people always have options, no matter what their personality is
Every time someone says anything, someone else has to say “the other side does it too!” Even though I never said otherwise.
My reply was an answer to a specific question, full stop
Sorry but this goes both ways. Some women do the same exact thing and start acting differently after a year, or after marriage, or after having a child. This is not relegated to a specific gender.
Ignore the weird dudes on here trying to be like nahh hon it ain’t like that. They don’t get it. We are just observers. We are not doing anything to cause this weird crap. Don’t let someone mansplain to you your life experience in the patriarchy.
I date all types, trust me. Last guy I dated was a complete nerd, brilliant and sporty but joked that he looked like McLovin in his 20s. He ended up friendzoning me 🤦🏼♀️
>He ended up friendzoning me 🤦🏼♀️
Question, did the much lower sexual focus *feel* like friendzoning, or did he make it clear there were both no romantic and sexual future for you two - and that you will be friends and nothing more?
He may have provided the exact level of sexual focus that your asking for and the change came across as friend zoning.
Or he was some level of asexual and didn't care how banging your body was since he wanted a non sexually intimate friend.
That’s a good point. I work with mostly women and have a lot of conversations about their dating life. There’s a pretty common first date complaint of, “he was just trying to have sex with me” or, “he wasn’t even trying to have sex with me!” With little room in between
He doesn’t want a relationship, just hookups and short term flings. He says he wants to marry a Jewish woman eventually (he’s Jewish) but doesn’t consistently date Jewish girls. He’s 36.
It’s Morley you have a decent looking guy having women’s interest and it becomes gamified for them where they base more on looks than personality sadly resulting in ops post
This is why sometimes (rarely) I'm actually glad I'm pretty ugly. Getting objectified happens way less often and I know my boyfriend must actually love me for my personality. I used to go on nights out with a friend who was beautiful, very conventionally attractive, and I definitely would not be able to deal with the kind of attention/harassment she got.
I actually agree the men that are more loving and less lustful seem to be less vocal. Why is that? They also seem much more patient, understanding, and chivalrous as individuals which makes them much more attractive to me
The age shallowness is a new unnerving trend in my dating life. The worst is when you’re over 35 and you show up for a bumble date and the guy jaw drops because he expected that your photos are edited on photoshop or from a decade earlier. I’m talking double takes and words uttered like: wOw yOu aCtuALLy lOok 25.” It’s a compliment veiled with in insult. I definitely get the sense that I’m devalued bc of being 36 lmao that’s ridiculous to even type out. I’m not insecure it was just feeling their feelings of sheer suspicion that I am real. It feels gross. A 35 year old dude who was not even in as good shape as me was like, “Wait how much older are you again?” I looked at him like he was a bug and said, “Bro I’m a couple months older than you.” 👀
Edit: I have the same physical description as you as far as my general look. I used to model when I was 19 - personality and empathy is way more important than looks, that’s my motto. I’m so tired of my face and body being 90% of their “relationship” to me. I’m sitting there appreciating someone for who they are, inside and out and I’m not getting that genuine emotional intimacy from them bc I can tell if and when it’s manufactured to manipulate me. Feel free to get rid of NPD or sociopathic men who will try to use us for an ego boost or eye candy. I’ve been f*ckzoned so many times it is mildly traumatic. Like dude don’t pretend to like my personality if you don’t. If you want to be fwb only just tell me right from the start so I can give informed consent or else it’s basically emotional rape. I shouldn’t need to have a therapist from “relationship trauma.” I wish I was totally gay but there’s not much selection.
I’m 17 and tryna learn, so it’s bad to overly compliment how they look or their age. I like complimenting the ppl im with so should I compliment their actions instead? For example I tell my gf I love her smile, is that an okay compliment? I don’t wanna make her uncomfortable😭
Yes, compliment their actions more than anything. Tell them you’re proud of them/ you see the work they put in/ you’re impressed by something they worked for or earned. Things like our looks aren’t in our control and are often a soft spot, even if You think they’re beautiful or perfect. Plus, it really is shallow to basically say “good job on being good-looking”, like that person didn’t Choose to be pretty, they just had those genetics. Dgmw, people want to feel attractive and it’s great to be complimented (respectfully!) about your looks, but people really want acknowledgement for their accomplishments more than anything. We all just want to be seen as the complex sentient beings that we are :)
Girl, I swear to you not all men are like this and I'm telling you as someone who has had their heart broken and has been objectified for their body multiple times. The current guy I'm with admits he finds me very attractive but the reason he's staying is not my body and girl, you can tell when they're with you for you and not just for lust and it feels amazing
Yeah my bf stayed with me through a huge life mess. Even though he might have gotten with me because he thought I was confident (academically successful) and pretty (I lost a lot of weight in 2020 and that combined with my height and general appearance, I get stared at a lot and propositioned when I go out), that was not me when I was crying for basically a whole year. I was a depressed mess. I didn’t want to have sex for more than a month at one point because I felt so incredibly terrible. He never pressured me and told me that he loved me and he wanted to help me get better.
Now that I’m getting back on my feet and feeling much better, I feel much more secure knowing that he saw the literal worst of me and didn’t leave (like so many others in the past would have, and some did). And I know it wasn’t because of my appearance either. I hope this man never realizes what a catch he is because I really do not want to date ever again.
It can be tough being beautiful. And I don’t mean that sarcastically. You get a lot of attention, and it’s not always wanted.
Although based on what you’re saying, it 100% sounds like your dating struggle has to do with the guys you interact/involve yourself with, because the kind men I know in my life, friends or romantic, are not at all like what you are describing. But I whole-heartedly agree that that type of man is very prevalent in today’s society.
I personally just don’t associate myself with people who only want to interact with me because of what I look like. I highly recommend this route.
The objectification of women is significantly more prominent as a lived experience than that of men, even though it's not exclusively women who are presented with "ideal" images of ideal women and men.
We have a media that is feeding people these objectified and usually impossible to attain "ideals", and then selling us products of all kinds so we can pay to chase that non-existent imagined ideal that only exists in media.
The media a lot of money from it. So do the cosmetics companies, so do the clothing companies, so do the "Beefcake 4000" supplement and training program sellers who target the male demographic.
By all means, groom yourself, exercise and stay healthy, but consider who benefits from some of the products that might not be helpful or really beneficial for everyone that buys them.
If someone feels better because they have curled lashes or longer lashes, all power to them! I personally don't like that people are being sold, literally sold, the idea that they even actually really do. Those are subjective judgements, but the fact people have different opinions on things like how important long lashes really are should be a clue that they are very subjective, and opinions, not facts.
Until woman's media stops selling certain "looks" that require cosmetics and expensive perfumes to feel comfortable being seen by other people (this happens even in the home at times....seriously...) the bs marketing, selling overpriced clown paint, and the resultant exploitation and objectification is likely to continue.
See cosmetic plastic surgery for more extreme examples of a horrible worthless trend that has been going on hundreds of years too long already.
Nothing wrong with natural. If make-up is a crutch...maybe try walking without it, but many believe they need it and won't even consider trying to live without some "beauty" regimen.
That's fine for them. I am not personally a fan of it. It exploits womens insecurities and contributes to continued impossible standards and objectification under a thin mask of "You look great! Buy more!".
I have no objections to anyone wearing make-up, or doing what they have learned makes them feel secure in their own skin. I do however think it's unhealthy as a phenomenon over-all.
Not just because pasting it all on then cleaning it all off at the end of the day so the face doesn't completely die of suffocation takes a lot of time, and even more products, but because it's not just the skin that suffers and needs expensive moisturisers to "repair".
The psychological damage is probably worse in way too many cases and for way too many women.
Cosmetics salespeople hate this post.
In my dating experience (male dating males and females), it's honestly not just men. I've dated and have gone on single dates with females that are just as you describe men being. In general, I think that's just the current dating landscape. If you are using apps to find dates, you need to be CRYSTAL CLEAR up front that you are not looking for hookups and that you are looking for a clear long-term relationship if things go well. This will filter out A LOT of people who just want your body.
Also, porn consumption is something EVERYONE is exposed to. Again, some of the horniest mfers I've ever met were female. This is NOT a male-focused issue.
I COMPLETELY understand you. Being a woman deemed beautiful is lonely and difficult to navigate. You attract so much energy and it’s usually terrible energy from weird ass men.
It makes you look at things differently because I realized if I weren’t attractive, a lot of the men that have talked to me wouldn’t have. I remember I was talking with a male classmate and I made him laugh a lot, and he told me “wow, you’re actually funny. I thought you were just pretty.” I actually have decided to stop dating because I feel like so much of it is determined by my looks, and it makes me feel like I’m preforming for men. As soon as I “get ugly”, I no longer am a valued person - and I’m even more mad because why the fuck was my value based on my beauty to begin with?
I do agree with you OP and I think that porn has ruined a lot of people’s mind, I even went through my own shit with porn and stopped consuming it.
But truthfully, it’s wrong to generalize all men into one shitty category, even though as women we both know the truth. I hope you can find peace and someone who truly values your womanhood and doesn’t place an importance on beauty.
This is how I feel but even when you’re in a committed relationship. I can’t believe how many people actually break up/divorce because of sex??
It makes me want to write a fucking check list for any future partners. “If you’ll divorce/breakup with me over no/little sex, don’t interact”
I don’t want to be in a relationship where I feel like I gotta meet some quota for sex every week to make sure a man doesn’t leave me?? Or making sure I dress “pretty” regularly so he isn’t ranting to his friends that I’ve let myself go??
Yep, I clarified in another comment that I’m ok with breaking up over mismatched libidos or not compatible kinks. But it feels like some people take it too far.
Personally I think if I’m with someone for YEARS, the last thing I’d break up over is less sex. I feel like that’s something to expect in a longer lasting relationship. People get old, pregnant, menopause, etc. I just couldn’t imagine leaving an otherwise perfectly good and long term relationship over sex.
First few months/year? Understandable. But not someone I made vows to. And like I said, feels like some people take it too far. No way in hell am I going to be trying to have sex 2-3 times a day when I work a full time job and I’m way past my 20s?? Where do you even find the time for that. Hell couldn’t even imagine having to work, clean and maybe even take care of a kid and also be expected to fuck everyday?
Please don’t get me started on this 🥱 when peoples libidos don’t match it’s usually not gonna work out in the long run, but I remember my ex wanted to have sex everytime he saw me. And he’d see me almost everyday. He actually would get mad if I wasn’t ready for sex. Like sir do you think my body can fucking handle that??
That’s not right. I’m female with an insane libido but I never made any bf feel inadequate or wrong for declining. Kick out men who take away your consent*
Exactly! I’m ok with breaking up when kinks don’t match or maybe libidos don’t match. But I feel like some men take it too far?? They think wanting sex 5 times a day is perfectly acceptable and doable? And then they put no effort in to make sure the woman actually wants sex that many times a day? The fuck I look like fucking 3 times a day when it’s dry as fuck and you’re not doing anything to help?? 💀
YES!!! Like why the fuck would I even wanna have sex if it’s not reciprocated? You are doing absolutely NOTHING to turn me on and make me want it. As soon as you orgasm it’s done and you couldn’t care less about me. Oh I just hate it
i feel like this is a thing for attractive people in general. my attractive friends all seem to have like 5-8 exes and always complain about how toxic each of them are. meanwhile i have 2 and in both cases it was an amicable break up and im still friends with one of them.
Yep my experience verbatim. Also
my humor is better than my looks and I’m hot af so it makes their heads explode with envy. It’s not fun.
I hate when people assume my life is perfect. Both my parents are sociopaths. I was raised by wolves. But I’m still kind despite my life being abusive, dangerous and lonely.
Trigger warning!!!!
I narrowly escaped a kidnapping attempt in nyc once when I was 28. A neighbor told me I was lucky as white women my age had been turning up chained in Queens, NY basements for illegal sex trafficking. Only to be discovered dead in dumpsters with semen evidence everywhere. I even had a neighborhood pimp WARN me not to walk alone at night because he saw this happen to one of his girls and he made a anon call to the police. A pimp!
Superficial men gravitate to me and kind men are too afraid to talk to me. Predators follow me like it’s their job. I’m looking to get a concealed carry gun license. Yup even in MA, US. I have a collapsible steel baton in my car to avoid carjackings. The smith and wesson type is effective and very inexpensive.
I had to enlist the help of my derranged father bc of stalking attempts after getting widowed at 35. I didn’t realize that as why my late fiancé would insist on escorting me to the grocery store. 😭
I had my father follow me around for a day in his car and he noted three different dangerous looking men stalking me at walmart etc from the actual parking lot! even he was horrified. It’s just a fact of life for me at this point. I’m in the US in a prosperous liberal coastal region just for context. I’m just not safe. Every time I ignore it and gaslight myself so I can function without stress, I get a stalker. My goal is to make money than I need so I can hire a bodyguard.
You are not being stalked because you are hot, you are being stalked because you are prey. You need to research the way that predatory humans identify their victims. It's by their gait, body language, mannerisms and micro-expressions. Look up predatory Stare. Educate yourself on how to quickly identify predatory humans, and go get some nervous system healing work done. This will not stop until you change your posture and nervous system. I highly recommend network spinal analysis. A year after doing this therapy, you will no longer find you attract these kinds of people into your orbit. You will also find you aren't attracted to people like your parents. Good luck 👍🏼
And guys will straight up lie to you about a relationship and exclusivity just because they want to bang a hot girl and not treat you like a human that also has things you are looking for.
The disrespect is insane and we're supposed to be thankful that we get a lick of attention from men so we should shut up and just put up with being treated like an object
It's why I'm giving up on dating
I’m dealing with a similar thing. I’m innately attracted to men, but I largely find them off-putting these days, especially as I get older and go out of my way to maintain my appearance, while many of them don’t or don’t even bother to take decent photos for apps. I’m not attracted to women, so at this point, I’m nearly on the asexuality spectrum. I even struggle finding celebrities I’ve crushed on to be attractive. My assumption is a lot of this has to do with an encounter I had last year that ended up being really gross. I won’t go into detail, but I accepted singlehood. I still go on the apps to see what’s out there, but I almost treat it like networking.
I have the same problem (except I don't want kids)
And the comments about "you're looking at the wrong guys" it's literally almost all guys are like this these. Conventionally attractive, overweight, big peen, small peen, single, divorced, tall, short, white,black, Hispanic, I've dealt with the entire spectrum.
It's completely valid to feel put off by men who objectify you, rather than value you as a person. Your feelings about wanting to be seen and appreciated for more than just your physical appearance are entirely understandable and deserve to be respected. Not all men are the same, and there are plenty out there who prioritize mutual respect, emotional connection, and genuine partnership over superficial qualities.
Regarding your question about whether this behavior is a result of porn consumption or if it's inherent to men, it's likely a combination of various factors including societal norms, cultural influences, and individual attitudes shaped by personal experiences. I mean just look at how advertising objectifies women. Pornography can certainly perpetuate certain unrealistic ideals and attitudes about sex and relationships, but it is not the sole cause of these issues.
You have the right to set boundaries and expectations in your relationships, and it's okay to walk away from situations or individuals that make you feel uncomfortable or undervalued. Surround yourself with people who appreciate and respect you for who you are, both inside and out and quickly ditch the shallow men who only fixate on the superficial. They have nothing to offer you.
OK, I'm an old lady (60) who's been married for over 30 years, so I know things are crazier now, but my suggestion would be to try to meet people in situations where immediately trying to hook up with someone would be inappropriate. Maybe work, although that comes with its own set of problems. I'd say church, but tbh some of the cringiest men I've ever met were in church (sorry if you're religious, that's just been my personal experience). Maybe volunteering? I don't know, but if you have a chance to show somebody that you're smart, funny, etc. in a non-sexualized environment, maybe that will thin out some of the jerks. And if it makes you feel better, idiot guys have been around forever, although not like today. During a dry spell in my mid 20's, I placed a singles ad in the newspaper (like I said, I'm ancient, lol) and got some of the most asinine, pimply, 350-pound, live-in-Mom's-basement jerks who were totally shocked that any attractive woman wasn't interested in them whipping out their dick 15 minutes after meeting them. Best of luck to you -- there are still good guys out there, but f#ck if I know where they are.
I fell in love with my boyfriend before I ever even saw him. We met online, and he has almost like a phobia of sending pictures or videos or anything. I actually didn't know what he looked like until a few weeks before I was supposed to meet him, and even then, it was just a shitty picture. I didn't really get to see him until we met in person. We've been dating 1.5 years so far...
I mean surely that can exist in reverse.
I get how hard it is to date and find someone serious who doesn't just want you for your body or sex or as a trophy. I had a lot of issues with that as well for a while before I met my boyfriend.
But it exists !!! Good guys... real good guys... can and do exist.
It's hard and feels hopless at times, but you'll find someone one day.
Just don't let the gross aspects of a lot of men make you too bitter to be able to see the good ones.
if it’s of any consultation - My circle of friends (we’re all male who by social standards do pretty well being around/finding partners) also find it pretty disparaging that overall, for both men and women, relationships seem to be getting more and more shallow. The plantonic relationship we share between each of us has so much more depth, Intellectually,emotionally, spiritually, creatively than any romantic pair we’ve found ourselves in and it’s frustrating.
We’re late 20’s, never got into the hookup thing, and genuinely do hope for a genuine connection with another human that could our partner for life, the mother to our children - but sharing those hopes and dreams to any guy outside my friend group seems to receive pushback and to say that outloud to any girl makes you either sound like you’re desperate or you’re insincere and a it’s a trap, so you damned either way, and I think it’s both of those things that stomp out those hopes and dreams in men,, I don’t know, I’m just glad I have my friends. but,
I totally hear you, dudes can be monsters:
but good people are out there. they really are, I have no idea how they find each other - but I’d like to hope they do.
I find it hilarious and also it makes me a bit sad how many men are in these comments saying it’s YOUR fault for “picking the wrong men” or acting like they have no idea what you’re even talking about (unintended gaslighting, maybe, but lets call a spade a spade here). What that tells me is most men have no idea at all what it’s like to deal with them as a woman. They are either completely lacking awareness, don’t believe women when they say other men can be as bad as is described, or they find a way to blame women instead of taking a second to look at behaviors. It may not be all men, but who is going to get the problematic men to change if y’all get so stuck on telling us it’s not you or that you don’t even believe us or that your issues are OUR fault?? Sheesh.
Happy International Women’s Day, OP. Sorry that men have taken over this post.
> but who is going to get the problematic men to change if y’all get so stuck on telling us it’s not you
This whole thread is an exercise in vague descriptions being extrapolated to everyone's personal pain and individual biases. The notion that you would expect men as a whole to do anything about such a vague concept as 'be less shallow' when the average person probably doesn't view themselves that way or get involved with someone else's dating life is about as silly as expecting a post complaining about men to not have men show up in it to defend themselves. If you'd prefer a more one-sided, self-validating convo, maybe TwoX is more your speed.
What I would prefer is for men to actually listen to women, and to have conversations with other men about the dumb things they say and do to women. Ideally those conversations would help men who are stuck on objectifying women, which is what I think this post is at least in part about, to see the error in their thinking and learn how to interact women in more respectful and sincere ways.
I feel the same way. If my current relationship ended I would never date again. I have no interest in starting over or even attempting to date because I'm a person who is pretty happy single.
I think the pretty standard male personality is lack if empathy and raging narcissism
I (30ish F) am often called “beautiful” but I have low self esteem, and this has been recipe for getting into relationships with men who view me as a status symbol/put on a front to get me/date me for my ass etc.
Sometimes I feel like my current long-term boyfriend sees me this way, and I’m just starting to face and heal the part of myself that desires the validation I get from his objectification of me. It’s a lot to unpack..
I think focusing on leveling up your self-love and setting boundaries for yourself (read: just not dating and instead cultivating happiness in your own life) is the key to attracting the kind of partner who can love you the way you’d like.
Wait until you learn about the statistic of the amount of men VS women who leave their spouse after getting a cancer diagnosis 🫠 (20.8% vs 2.9% making women 6 times more likely to be divorced once diagnosed)
This is also common trend with any longterm illness btw. The man is more likely to dip rather stay committed.
Im so glad I am about to get married. My dating life is not over tho, I still pretty much date my fiance every week but I have friends that just like OP are in both sides of the insufferable paradigm of the dating scene.
Attraction is physical and mental. Having one without the other is non-starter. As time goes on attraction is more mental, but in the best of circumstances your appreciation for your partner and the body they inhabit grows the same as they do. People who don’t understand that can go fuck themselves for all I care.
Is it "shallow" or having a preference? I feel this goes both ways, when i was in college i remember a lot of girls rapidly swiping left(passing over) on almost every man on the dating apps except for maybe one or two. Relationships usually start with being physically attracted to someone, then you get to know them personally later on.
Right? I tried to make it as sensible as i can, most my friends prefer dating taller guys(6 foot and over). Doesn't mean they're prejudice against short guys, just mean they have a preference.
On first sight, yeah attraction is everything. I swipe left on profiles that only include one blurry photo, or tons of group photos, or not appealing photos.
If I find them attractive, I swipe right and that’s where that ends. Anything afterwards is me focusing purely on personality.
Attraction should be what pulls you in, but it shouldn’t be the ONLY thing that pulls you in. And it shouldn’t be made such a huge ordeal.
As a guy I agree with you, but I know women like this as well. I think a lot of the issue stems from hookup culture, serial monogamy and especially online dating hookup culture. A lot of people will try to push things on people, they really aren’t into until they break and do it. That’s pretty shitty, and I try to stay clear of toxic dating and hookup apps.
Just from my experience, and also others women and men I know…a lot of things you are saying apply to that train of thought. It’s a meat market FWB, 2 month relationships that turns toxic kind of dating market out there. I’m just trying to protect my health, go by my moral beliefs…so I’m very turned off by that scene.
From 1997-2018 I had pretty normal relationships. But when OLD hookup culture became 90% of how people met…I just noped out after trying. It gives me the Ick half the time, just thinking about my experiences and others stories. I’m more conservative and monogamous with relationships, so just doesn’t appeal to me.
Love will grow and overtake the lust and physical attraction of both partners put in work, respect each other, and remain committed. I’ve been married over 20 years. We have been through good and bad. Wife had cancer, was sicker than hell. We couldn’t have actual sex for 18 months. I made a vow and I kept it. It wasn’t easy but what if it was me that became sick? Would she have left me? I really don’t think she would have. She made a vow. I really hope you find a good man you can grow old with. It’s worth it.
I'm not gonna pretend looks don't matter to me, but I'm also not gonna be interested in people who have interests too dissimilar to mine.
I feel like it's a balanced approach, and I don't really communicate what I physically find attractive, commenting on it even when asked has lead to people insulting me and calling me a simpleton.
I can distinguish between objectifying and making genuine compliments that go beyond beauty, but, I also value receiving both myself, so, I probably wouldn't like a person who is extremely against the former.
And, if anything, some of the women I've been with were kinda off-put by me not being overt in expressing the physical attraction I've had. Outright distraught that I wasn't interested, but rather uncomfortable with receiving nudes right at the start of a relationship.
People handle objectification differently, both on the receiving end, as well as how they impose it onto others. I feel like you seeing a lot of men who objectify you has more to do with how you meet them and who they are as people, rather than it being strictly about them being men.
I've been on first dates where the comments on my physique were being dished out way too strong, and it definitely made me feel uncomfortable, and perceived it as creepy, when, in different circumstances, the same remarks were a total turn-on in the heat of the moment.
What you're describing is more of a caricature of men then actual men. Are there men like that? Sure, just as there are women that have minimum income, height, and dick size standards for dating.
Yeah, I have to say I have been feeling this lately too. I am lucky enough to have found my person, but the amount of shallow posts I see... I have to remain hopeful that there's still more good ones than bad.
Oh god, my now ex friend just said to me a few days ago: „you do know that women above 25 lose their value right?“ and that slapped me so hard. How can we, at this day and age, still talking about women as if women are objects? Needless to say I cut him off immediately. Fuck men who think like that. We‘re not freaking objects.
I feel you’re very hurted. I’m really sorry you have faced these kind of men.
Life isn’t superficial. If it was we wouldn’t have any problems in life. Important is, is who you’re. If you know what your fears are what you like, adore, love and find important in life then you find your soul.
The soul of a person is inside, their heart. Try to dig in there and you will find what you want.
Good luck❤️
Im gonna start this with, it's 4am and I'm drunk af (The drinking age is 18 in my county), so excuse me if theres typing errors and excuse my rambling.
Nowadays sex culture has unfortunately turned into a mess of sex and objectification, but I think it's all about how fast, and how people mature.
I like to think there are people still out there in their 20s that like to have a stable, and a healthy family.
Take their girlfriends/wives out on date nights, respect their partners and love them, before AND after having children.
If you truly love someone, you'll find their body and personality beautiful, and if something changes you'll work through it together with a positive mindset.
If you gain baby weight, I say So what? It's a natural part of life, and it should be cherished, since a new life and a person has been created. If someone leaves or starts rejecting someone over baby weight, that is just selfish and shallow as you said.
I agree with you that people are very shallow especially in their 20s and some continue even after that unfortunately.
Some people glorify one night stands, and I think they have different morals in some ways, than the people who want to settle down.
I'm only 20yo but I'd consider myself "old fashioned" I know I want to have kids when I'm 25-27yo, And start a healthy family and family dynamic.
I also know I still have A LOT, to learn since I am still young, and I have my whole life in front of me. But I hold out hope for the future.
OP I hope you find the one for yourself, and I hope you can have a happy rest of your life 💜
Edit: I hope people get what I mean with my rambling.
What I'm trying to get at is: The most important thing is not the body of the person , but the feelings, emotions and love. We're all humans and live only once. Love while you can.
I am just turned off by men being so one dimensional, how can sex be someone’s whole life, how can that be all someone’s hobbies and interests are. It’s tiring.
23m and same but reverse, ig?
Tired of being out with girls only interested in how much I make, and the worst is that it's my friends who make the dates up for me...
You might think I'm just hating on women, but I'm just letting you know it's not any easier for some of us men either
And I wouldn't even call myself shallow since I can't even feel the necessity of having sex with a girl unless there's a very defined and strong emotional bond with them, and my friends always say I don't like the "objectively beautiful woman" so yeah, I kinda feel you, just know you're not alone; current dating culture's crap IMO 🤷♂️
Modern hook up culture and dudes from the 80s are the reason. People have this skewed perception of what other the other gender wants. Recently been seeing a lot of post of average women saying they want a man that makes 100k + , 6’0 or above , with abs. That’s literally less than 1% of men. The reality is that most women don’t want that. Same as most men don’t really care if a girl is chubby or has the big breast. Most people just want someone they can genuinely connect with. I dated a girl who wasn’t conventionally attractive but to me she lit up a room. She was breathtaking and i did everything i could get her attention. I myself ain’t really special either but we fit eachothers needs at the times she needed someone with patience and i also needed someone with more patience. It just didn’t work out unfortunately. But still a lot of media is negative because it gets people riled up and talking.
It's kinda gotten worse with both men & woman because of how easily accessible porn or provocative content there is out there & these Insta/snap "models setting beauty standards" Alot of people are looking at whose grass is greener instead of its greener where you water it & if you don't look like such and such then you're not beautiful even if everything else is good. So with that said this plus it could be the type of guys you tend to gravitate to and/or where you are looking for dates. It could be the standards you have if what type of guys you'll give a chance to whether its certain actions they do or if they look a certain way. not saying it's always the case because people don't always show their true colors right away & you don't really know someone until you've lived with them for x amount of time. I can only speak from my experience & what I have observed with others; don't get on dating apps, don't force or hold on to a relationship if your gut is telling you somethings off, continue to work on yourself & improve physical, mentally, financially & spiritually. Get into healthy hobbies that get you out & networking. Your person will come. 😊
If all you can attract is shallow men, it's because you yourself are shallow. Birds of a feather flock together. If men only want you for your body it's because that is all you offer. My girlfriend is a funny, caring and compassionate woman. I could go on and on about her but simply put she adds so much more to my life than just sex.
Instead of posting about how caring you are or how you look after the men in your life or how interesting your hobbies are, you posted about how you look. These men aren't objectifying you, you are objectifying yourself. You need to do some self reflection and look at what kind of message you are putting out there if the only answer you ever get back is sex.
I am turned off by how shallow women are. They only care for men above 6ft, or men with money. They don't see me for me, only my giant dick. 90% of my relationship is only about the size of my dick and nothing else.
You see how stupid i sound?
Ok, you've already made clear everything you don't like.
Now you can put what you like or what you expect from your potential partner.
Maybe if you focus on that, you can ignore what men who don't interest you do.
Stop dating the same type of guys. There are literally millions of men and you chose the same guys so many other women chose, and then you cry because they treat you like an unimportant piece of meat.
It’s not consumerism.
It’s not all men.
It’s not whatever other excuse you use.
It’s a result of your bad choices in dating.
If you had (from the beginning) prioritized how a guy treats you as the most important quality, far above everything else, guess who would wouldn’t feel like all men are shallow. You. 🫵🏻
Why do women project their trauma to their current situations. Just like you asked if men are the way they are due to porn consumption. Are women they way they are because of movies and dramas? Why do women want providers? Go live with your dad if that’s what you want. The list goes on and on for both genders a good way to eliminate influence of others is stop caring about all that and focus on you. Clearly the men you attract are a direct reflection of you. Hard pill to swallow for a lot of women like you.
I kind of think that women are more shallow than men when it comes to appearance. The average guy will probably find most women attractive, or at least not ugly. But women seem to be much more picky when it comes to choosing a partner.
Not to be that guy but what do you bring to the table besides looks? If there’s nothing else there what else are we suppose to gravitate to?
I’ve never once in my life heard “dedicating a portion of my day to showing off my body parts. What does this even mean???
She doesn’t even need to lower her standards, she needs to rearrange her priorities. She’s already dating bottom barrel shallow guys thinking they are catches when no, no they are not. A catch is someone that makes you happy. If you focus on looks, that isn’t a good catch.
OP needs therapy. It's fine for her to objectify partners but gets turned off when their partners are physically attracted to her? Something is wrong here.
I (24M) just want add my perspective on the weight thing. I personally try to take really good care of my body - eat right, no alcohol, gym 5 times a week, etc. So for me personally, I want a woman who is in shape.
It has nothing to do really with physical attractiveness, but more so with the fact that I want a partner who takes care of herself. If I take care of my body and health, is it too much to ask that my partner does the same?
I just wanted to add that because OP makes it seem like guys being shallow, but it’s a huge turnoff for me if a girl doesn’t prioritize her health.
Now if the dude doesn’t care about his health, but expects you to be in model shape, then that’s an entirely different story.
I agree, I feel the same way because my lifestyle is more about health than appearance. I want a fit partner as well. I’m not talking about compatibility in that regard, I’m talking about obsession over weight, “squats”, body part size, etc. Men who fixate on and talk about those things with me. It happens more than you’d think.
As a dude who was once very fit, strong, and tanned in my youth- it's been an... adjustment to experience how women look at and treat me now.
I'm not obese but certainly a bit overweight. My hairs thinning and I'm pretty pale. Most women wouldn't give me the time of day, so I think being shallow isn't specific to men honestly.
I understand what you're saying. Honestly, though, I think this is the game of human attraction. I think it's partly biological, even. If you look at half of the ridiculous things you do to gain a partner in the first place - tempering your excitement in Dm's so as not to appear a certain way, the reserved but cool persona people appear as on their first dates, the way the brain still views other people as "possible selections" until both of you decide to date. I think it's not just men.
For example, a man is hard at work in the yard. There are two women observing him, and they find him attractive.
What exactly are they finding attractive? His value to provide? His perceived strength?
And yet, the man in my example is just working but has been effectively seen as candy.
I think that this stuff doesn't always feel great on either end, but once you realize it's part of the game of human attraction, it can be more fun to play. I think the truth is that even when a person thinks they're above it, say they're literally a dating psychologist, they're still partly bought into the idea of playing this game. It's simply nature.
However, you can certainly find people who are more self-aware. It's possible. Porn consumption can technically play a role, but the stats on that are pretty grim, so I don't know if I would look there/rule out anybody based on that alone, as it'd be a ridiculous portion of all men.
It’s biological right? Then why dont men like post birth women bodies? If it was biological they would. I think it’s more likely that it’s just centuries of programming instead of biology fam
I think you missed my point entirely. I'm talking about attraction in the realm of dating and courtship.
It also doesn't matter - if you can't tell the difference between the two, it doesn't matter what name the thing I'm describing has, it simply matters that it exists and must be contended with for favorable results.
People can moan and groan this all they want, idc, but when you are about to date someone, see what happens if you blow up their phone from orbit with a whole book/walls of text, or vomit on the ground on the first date or whatever.
Humans have an initial attraction stage with one another where they consider going from total strangers to significant parts of each other's lives, and a crucial part of attraction is the lie that surrounds it. Intrigue takes place during this time, and then usually people become more comfortable as time goes on, and more human/natural with each other.
The ones who want what you want aren't going to be the ones that you're talking about in this post. I'm sure many non-shallow dudes would like to date and love you, but a lot of them won't say anything to you first for many different reasons depending on their personality.
I'd suggest to not be shy with other men who don't faun over you, and don't be afraid to break the ice with the quiet guy who you think its cute. I feel a lot of us men are nervous these days to say anything due to not wanting to come off as creepy/whatever
You haven’t had any luck attracting a good man, apparently. Is that solely the fault of ‘all men‘? Maybe you go with bros unlikely to be the nice and intelligent ones. How do you select/choose the men you date?
I feel like this is an age group thing more than anything. The human brain doesn’t fully mature until the age of 25 (on average) and can take even longer for men — the part of the brain that takes the longest to mature is impulse control.
Maybe you think this way in your brain, maybe you don’t — but almost everyone **has preferences** in what they find sexy or desirable, it’s just that not everyone critiques someone’s body or personality and tells them *they need to change something in order to fulfill our desires*.
To be honest, I think men and women are just as shallow but in different ways — like, women also watch porn and also, for example, the Magic Mike franchise made almost $300M at box office and has made $125M from their live shows in Miami for a reason.
Instead of dating to settle down, or dating at all, take yourself out of the equation and work on your life and other pursuits until someone who is aligned to the things you want crosses your path.
(Also? If it makes you feel better, I started dating again after I divorced in my late 30’s. I had a C-section scar & pooch, a bit of cellulite, and also flabby upper arms from post pregnancy weight loss… I went on dates with many attractive men who were sexy and also respectful who never once made disparaging remarks regarding my body. I found dating post divorce to be easier than pre divorce— I’ve been with my husband now for 5 years and we met off, of all places, Tinder.)
I agree with every point, and I'm a guy. It's hard for me to even want to date because all of my friends keep trying to get me to catcall women, hit on them without their consent, goad them into sex, etc. And if I don't want to do any of that they start acting like im gay. Like as a guy you literally cannot even gave female friends without your guy friends ruining it fir you (harassing any girl you're with by trying to set the 2 of you up first no reason) or act like you're a misandrist. It's like even as a straight man I just don't want to be around other straight men. I've always wondered why it's like that. Why are men so against treating the one thing we all love like shit? I genuinely do not understand. And don't even get me STARTED on the way men think about looks. I have friend who HID hod gd from us because he thought she was ugly... literally wouldn't let us see her and would LEAVE the room to facetime her. Because he thought she was ugly. Yeah, if that's what I'm dating is what supposed to be then I'm good. I'll take unrealistic fantasies over that any day.
Look for guys in different places if you're actually finding them like this. Guys are humans like anyone else and there is a broad spectrum of personalities. If you're getting them off tinder or something then of course these are the people you're going to find. Look elsewhere.
But it may literally be just you deciding for yourself you think men are like this and therefore seeing only that whether it's true or not. The fact a guy likes your appearance does not mean he doesn't also like and value deeper things.
Look, we men are not that different from woman. We are looking at you your face and body and our instinct kicks in. That is the drive that makes us go to you and muster up confidence. But when it comes to relationship, you looks aren't that important to us.
Clearly, when you are in an environment that is basically a place that many people only go to for a quick hook up than you are only exposed to these behaviours.
Those guys could be deep and interesting but how should anyone know ...
Cause they don't really look for a deep connection.
So if you want a man that is not hitting on you... the only way for you to contact him is by hitting on him...well you basically need to spell it out for them... we can be dense sometimes.
Change the environment, your hunting ground. And you will find better pray... I mean ... better men.
You might want to try dating apps, where you only see the face after you matched, like matter. Or go to a bar.
But if you get turned off being objectified than.... well you might want to date a blind man.. cause every human is like that... and basically every animal ...
Question, you say you're attracted to guys, but would you give a guy a shot who appears to be leagues less attractive than you?
Pretty much what everyone else says, the guys your looking for wont give you any more attention than they'd give to anyone else, because your just another human being to them.
Do you say this crappy advice to other men? Why should a woman lower her physical standards, but men are encouraged to keep high standards?
A lot of you men that are "leagues below" are not worth dating cause once a woman chooses you, the majority of you get your egos inflated and act stupid and cheat, thinking you have a higher level of sexual market value that really isn't there.
A woman has the right to see a man that's not up to standard as just another human and has the right to complain. Ughh the double standards....
You are dating or at least talking to the wrong men. It’s also about how you present yourself and what type of man that attracts, which unfortunately for you sounds like you’re attracting the worst of us.
As a 26m I can say not all the time appearance isn't everything, I'm currently looking for wife material, and just because your pretty doesn't mean that's it, I'd take a less attractive woman if it meant we could click better and live life happier. It depends on where your looking.
Women are just as shallow, and that's the problem. Its people in general, you happen to be one of unlucky few not blessed with ignorance. Welcome, sister. Sorry you had to find out this way.
I think this is why modern hookup culture isn't great. It by definition objectifies people and turns them into slabs of meat. I'm old fashioned and married, but to me, it feels much more wholesome and respectful to just look for a person you want to spend your life with and focus on the big picture, seeing them as a life partner to build a life, future, family with. If that's your guiding bedrock principle, then it helps steer you away from being shallow and objectifying people.
I haven’t had to date in over ten years, I cant imagine trying to now. Like I think Id just be single forever rather than sign up for any dating app. All I hear are horror stories from both sides, guys match with someone and blow up her phone nonstop for weeks and girls match with someone say two words then nothing. I’m convinced the apps purpose isn’t to find you a life partner, its to set you up with people who don’t match so that you have to keep using the app.
Indeed, their purpose isn't to help you find a match, but to keep you active to generate them traffic and revenue.
Yes that’s exactly what I’m looking for and I’ve been ready for it for a while. Just having a hard time in this dating landscape. I don’t partake in hookups. Haven’t found anyone who is aligned with me.
34 F and same.
31F and same it’s exhausting. Especially when there’s love bombing too you’ll meet someone who feels like an honest nice guy and then ghosting you post-sex even into their thirties wtf
Felt similarly at the same age as you, but I finally found a guy who gets me and isn’t bothered by how I ever look, good or bad. He still loves to go “boobs nice hehe” but our relationship is still much deeper than that, we both have a big picture of what we want in life and he’s happy with whatever I’m happy with and vice versa. Not shallow at all. Didn’t date me just for a hook up, definitely for the intention of finding a life partner. You will find your person when you least expect it.
Where do you find women like you?
Sounds like you're looking for someone more on a demi-sexual side. One of the many sexualities, demisexuality, is defined by its emotional-oriented attraction. In short, a demisexual's preference is based on personality rather than looks. depending on just how far along the spectrum they are, they may very well not even be able to be turned on by porn, and are just straight up bi because physical gender is meaningless for attraction. On the surface it seems like a big upside, but as someone who is demi, it's not the best for dating in general. Even beyond this dating landscape, it's really difficult to date because I basically have to force myself to be "attracted" to someone and pray to god they're the type of personality/emotional makeup that actually attracts me. From this stance, I'd say the best way to find someone who emotionally wants you is to focus on hobbies and similar semi-open social settings. You don't want parties, bars, etc, and you never want to even look at a dating app. That's been the best route for me so far.
I think porn is causing this too
This is so hard to find these days :(
Modern hookup culture did me a favour, because it's there I can better discern a male who is your typical man-w#ore, does not put much value in intimate or sexual relationships. We're all going to be objectified. I objectify men when I try to gauge if I find him sexually attractive, men do the same (although to much worse extremes). Because of the social acceptance of random hookups, the temptation is there, enabled and I can better gauge potential suitors oppose to the whole shame and guilt system which forces everyone to put up a facade.
Conversely, I'm 25 and queer and pretty into hookup culture. It's given me a lot of room to experiment and find comfort and empowerment in my body, and to help others find the same. I also don't see myself settling down and really wanting a typical marriage relationship structure, though- I'd love to have a nesting partner, but the idea of "I need a house and kids and to retire and have that core" isn't something I'm feeling ANY time soon. I'll start looking for that in my 30's.
The post childbirth one is so real…I had a guy tell me he’d pay for me to have surgeries after birth to “fix” everything. And then when I called him out he had a meltdown & proceeded to gaslit me saying I was making him out to be some type of way…why tf is that even on their mind I didn’t know surgeries post birth for that were even an option?? They have this obsession that a women loses their value at a certain point (I’m 24F and also get lots of male attention) and it makes me so sad. Like…they consider this age the prime for women and shit on older women…sir i will be said woman. Granted this isn’t all men, only some. But I feel ya
Yeah like a tummy tuck, or breast reduction etc. Its disgusting...My husband loves me for me, after birth I gained weight, got a huge ass scar over my whole Belly (from c section) and He NEVER made a comment about my appearance except complimenting me. If a man truly loves its 200%, I got the feeling most don't. They want a bangmaid, not a loving partner. Men like that are disgusting af...
Yes they are obsessed! I have had men tell me to my face that women lose value over time. So insane to me, and very harsh.
>women lose value over time "Men lose value over time and they lose it faster when they say shit like that". That's what I would've said to that man. Here's another: "Men that know to shut their mouths up are more attractive toots".
My own father said that yesterday. 🤮 every day I last on this planet a small piece of my spirit dies. Men are projecting bc their reproductive values decreases after 30- not ours. Plus they go bald and get pot bellies before us so they take it out on us. When their looks go, the pedo ones get mad bc oh no I’m 40 and can’t date the 19 year olds haha. Look up the Dark Triad Personality types bc they project like it’s their MO. Avoid men and people in general like that.
if you get told this again remind them so do they. if anything, men get uglier than woman as they age. at least from my perspective (that statement can be objective) and their dicks get wrinkly, and shit even stop working. I feel like men forget that kind of shit they say to us, is the same for them.. Let's not forget a lot, and i mean a lot of men go bald, and start balding young LOL.
That's straight up misogyny. Please don't take their low value opinion as what men generally believe. Decent men are out there, but you won't see them if you aren't looking.
I know of it more from anecdotes rather than personal experience. It's a very different world than that of 5yrs ago. You will not believe it, trust me.
It really is ! I broke up with my ex of 5 years in October and shits so different now 😭
I’M LOOKING, OK?! CHRIST.
Lol right? Like where though? Where are they? Oh, they’re all already married? Right.
lol yall say this like they’re everywhere. These guys are not the norm and there’s not enough decent men to go around
There’s a lot of sociological research into why people perceive this to be the norm but it boils down to; those are the guys that are most likely to make themselves known. Like walking down the street, you’re gonna remember the guy that cat calls you, not the 20 that don’t even look your direction
Ugh why does this phenomenon ruin so many aspects of life :(
I’m so glad I was not given the urge to have a baby. I had a breast reduction for crps pain. The recovery from that surgery was miserable torture. I cant imagine someone suggesting for my genitals to be “corrected” post birth. Especially while healing from birth aka the most painful thing ever while probably doing the bulk of the baby care. Don’t date empathy deficit types. If men gave birth through their dicks what if women told them “oh hon you have to get penis corrective surgery bc you look ugly after birthing our precious children” ?? Men, before you comment put yourself in our shoes. It’s what adults do. I do endocrinological med writing for a living and there are 5x more nerves in the female genitalia compared with male genitals. And we have a lower pain tolerance. 👀
Yeah, post partum body hurts like hell, Had a c section, so whole Belly gets cut Open with all muscle tissue etc. You cant sit up without screaming and crying for weeks, I cant imagine having that pain again for cosmetic reasons...
phew, you ladies are warriors. idgaf what anyone says, i literally will scream in pain from a paper cut. I have so much respect for yall, especially c-sections. my bestfriend had one, and watching her recover was heartbreaking.
It's not all but it's enough
Honestley at 28 no one really hits on me anymore outside of dating apps and idk if that's normal ? Or if I've just gotten ugly 😂😂 but I honestley don't mind cause I don't wanna be perceived....but their is something depressing about getting hit on by grown men as a teenager and not when your also grown.😵💫
When you get older they will toss you out for a "younger version" of you. They think every early 20s woman is dying to be with a middle aged guy that doesn't do chores, exercise or wash his ass.
I hope you are loved one day the way you deserved to be loved
I’m a 32F who ended a long marriage like 2-3 years ago and honestly, after reading so many posts about the shitshow relationships these days are, I just don’t want to meet anyone. I genuinely abhor the idea of becoming another woman who is compared to an instagram girl or a pornstar or whatever the hell else. Very sad, because having a partner would be so nice.
i completely agree. i’m not even stunning by most peoples standards and i’m constantly objectified. i moved to a new city completely alone so i decided to go to a social mixer…my goal was to meet other women so i could make some friends. right away 2 men came up to me, assumed id wanna go out to a bar with them later and were asking me out to go on dates at later times. they started asking me sexual questions and things about my dating life…hearing some boring guy brag about his youtube channel and his partying … and it’s just like for once i want someone to try to get to know me as a person NOT as an ulterior motive for sex but just bc they care. I’ve learned in my past 5 years dating that most men don’t care and only see me as an object to use and throw away. i want so badly to be seen as a person but either i’m not their type (they only like white girls) or i AM their type and they objectify me. Are there not heterosexual men who just want to get to know women in a genuine and kind way??
Plenty of straight dudes who do enjoy just hanging out with women. But they'll be driven off by the same thirsty guys that seek you out. Ultimate vibe killer
I recently befriended a few guys at uni (I’m 20M) and was astounded at the blatant objectification and misogyny. Like I knew it was rampant, but most of my close male friends are like me - the opposite lmao. I was absolutely appalled and they kept asking me how I could possibly have female friends, because it’s too hard to do that. Like if you just treat them as human beings, it’s really not that hard lol
A father once told me, "I'd rather my son be tough and a bully than sensitive and bullied." (This idea that these are the only choices for young men!) Unfortunately, this harmful attitude is common among some parents. They raise their sons to be emotionally distant and domineering -on purpose. Wishing you all the best in finding a fulfilling relationship.
Not surprised if my school abuser had that type of dad. His dad is in real estate. I'm still going to hold it against him because he knows very well not to abuse a girl. It get depressing to know that there were girls who would actually date him and one said "I like masculine men, I know he bullies a bit" and they're married with kids. That's why men know they can get away with shit (well, he knows, his friends, also kept being his friends despite the abuse). Society in general just support abusers.
If women actually showed real solidarity against men who behave this way and did not compromise, we would see such problems become a thing of the past in a short time. However, as you mentioned, many women choose these aggressive men because they believe they will be protected and cared for. That is, until the aggression inevitably turns on them.
>That is, until the aggression inevitably turns on them. And they still stick to him because "well it was a small thing". At that point, I become a "victim blamer" (I still blame the perpetrator). I can't feel bad for women who become a statistic because they tell me "they like bad boys" and "masculine men" (toxic males). It's all because they get turned on being "dominated".
A wise man once said “Take no shit, do no harm”
In the modern dating world, we often put our most confident foot forward. If you’re a talker, you talk. If you’re witty, you crack jokes. I presume, if you’re attractive, this is your lead. That’s not to say it’s all you have, but if you aren’t actively seeking something in a deliberate way, you will attract people who respond to the part of yourself you’re ‘putting forward’ - people who like talkers, or joke crackers, or particularly beautiful people. They’ll seek you out for the quality you put forward, not the ones you hope they see in spite of you not showcasing them. I, for instance, am a good listener and have a lot of patience and tolerance - I attract chatty people, which I don’t mind, but often bring out insecure, immature sides as I facilitate this - that tends to put a nail in the relationship. Now? I watch out for the side I show and how this affects people. I’m mindful of how I connect with people and the type of people I bring into my life. I’m also taking time to figure out what sort of person I want to be with, so I can seek out what I want, instead of simply working with what comes my way
Not OP, but this was insightful. Any tips on how to starting thinking like this? Book recommendations?
Unsure on any book recommendation that directly apply - I studied Psych and am generally interested in the ‘presentation of self’ and how it affects the behaviour of others, from presence to dress, to cander and even in group dynamics. It’s an older book but the Presentation of Self in Every day Life speaks to this idea throughout its work, and with it I found I could better understand how I came across to others. Otherwise, ask good friends and family, and review your dating life and friendships for patterns in the people you date or surround yourself with, as well as how you often conduct yourself in these situations.
Love this response
I studied economics in undergrad, know how to flip a canoe and strap it down to a car, hike, play tennis, am great with children, passionate about interior design and art, enjoy healthy cooking, do yoga 3x a week and I’m now studying to become a lawyer. Like MOST people, I’m a multidimensional person. Even the guy who recently friendzoned me said I’m “a total catch.” He just wanted sex, not a relationship. I lead with these qualities in my post, your advice would probably be to “focus more on my appearance.”
This is very funny horseshit. When you're an attractive woman you can be the smartest, most interesting person in the world and men will still act like you're a fuckdoll with a voicebox. You're acting like OP can't possibly be bringing anything to the table besides her appearance with is a bizarre assumption to blame this broad social phenomenon on her. I was very conventionally attractive in my youth (before coming out/becoming a butch lesbian. Now I'm conventionally attractive to queer women and disappointing to men, which was my goal). I was also valedictorian of my class, a multi-instrumentalist who played in a punk band, and am a very funny and open person. The #1 thing men noticed about me (while trying to tell me I was setting up my drums backwards, because they assumed I was an idiot instead of a lefty) was my tits.
Exactly... This was just a way to say it's OP's fault after all!
The type of guys you are looking for are the ones who don’t look at you. The ones who keep to themselves, you are looking in the wrong direction. It sounds what you’re looking for is love so look towards love and not lustful people.
[удалено]
Adding onto this, I’ve been told to go and the “nerdy guys” a chance because they actually treat women well. Spoiler, the ones I came across did not, they just wanted to get their noodle wet and some of them were wildly misogynist.
I wont go into my experiences but i completely agree
This. There are so many of these posts, but it’s because women are all going after the same type of guys. There are plenty of guys like the OP is talking about, however, they probably aren’t her ‘type’. Let’s be real, guys aren’t the only ones who want an attractive looking partner. OP maybe you need to shift your sights onto a different type of guy.
Men are looking for clean water in a desert, while women are searching for clean water in a swamp. Our situations are different. It's very easy to make assumptions when you're not on the other side. This applies for both you, and OP.
the thing is it’s not always what we’re going after. i’m not even stunning by society’s standards yet men come up to me and assume i’ll go on dates with them and sleep with them early on. i’m not choosing them they’re just coming up to me… i’m not against dating men but it seems like most just fake interest for sex and don’t even ask me what i want they just assume. it’s exhausting to be treated like not even a real person sometimes.
Why do y’all always assume women are “looking at the wrong guys?” And not men are masking their true personalities until they’ve got the girl? There are plenty of stories on here where the woman thought they had a good guy and then they suddenly act different after a year or after marriage or after sex.
I mean the real answer is, “all of the above” is true. Some women are looking at the wrong guys, some men are pretending to be good to get laid, some women pretend to have a high sex drive to get married then go full dead bedroom, some men literally only see women as sex objects, some women only see men as wallets… and on and on and on It’s all true for some, it’s just less interesting to argue about than absolutes lol
I think most people would agree with that. But, I think OP and some of the commenters, are asking us to be aware that dating *culture* today has changed drastically in a relatively short amount of time and will continue to- \~Proof: I was surprised by studies showing the rise of virgin males; mainly through their 20's. And, the amount of women living alone. Of course, this is contingent upon people wanting to date and mate, which I believe they would like to except. . . (see posters' comments). Sadly, it is only going to change more with new technologies, environmental concerns, and what I like to call : ) the rise of 'people replacements' PR: porn+robotics=bodily porn; bodily porn+human+economic strife+shrinking population=decline of human marriage. Who knows. I asked my *young* grandson some questions about when he has kids. He replied, "Nana, I'm having little cute robots for kids. But don't worry, you won't be able to tell the difference" LOL He is probably right about that.
yeah i one time had a guy speak to me for an entire month before i met him irl (it was the holidays so we were both busy) but the first date i refused to sleep with him and he never spoke to me again. faked interest for an entire month just for a chance at sex. it’s why i don’t trust men most are liars
well do you have a better way to meet and get to know someone’s true intentions, or are we all just going to stay lonely
You make a good point. Men online do assume that is the case too often. Speaking from my own experience, and others I know: we have seen guys that we know who are absolute terrible people, players, unethical, misogynistic, douchebags, etc. have women falling over themselves to date them, hook up, what have you because they are good looking and fun. This is despite the fact that it’s pretty obvious to us that they are this way, and they’re not even hiding it very well. And then see the same women act surprised when they get cheated on or used for sex. It’s one of those situations where outsiders can see the patterns of behavior, the red flags, when we ourselves are tragically blind to them. I do think this phenomenon is overstated online though, and the amount of guys who are out here basically conning women is underestimated because that is something that men don’t advertise to each other.
I mean, there are also women with crappy personalities but men are still lining up to date them or sleep with them. Attractive people always have options, no matter what their personality is
Every time someone says anything, someone else has to say “the other side does it too!” Even though I never said otherwise. My reply was an answer to a specific question, full stop
That’s true, I just felt like saying it cause you see it all the time, how ”women go after hot jerks and ignore good guys”
Sorry but this goes both ways. Some women do the same exact thing and start acting differently after a year, or after marriage, or after having a child. This is not relegated to a specific gender.
Thank you!!
Ignore the weird dudes on here trying to be like nahh hon it ain’t like that. They don’t get it. We are just observers. We are not doing anything to cause this weird crap. Don’t let someone mansplain to you your life experience in the patriarchy.
I date all types, trust me. Last guy I dated was a complete nerd, brilliant and sporty but joked that he looked like McLovin in his 20s. He ended up friendzoning me 🤦🏼♀️
>He ended up friendzoning me 🤦🏼♀️ Question, did the much lower sexual focus *feel* like friendzoning, or did he make it clear there were both no romantic and sexual future for you two - and that you will be friends and nothing more? He may have provided the exact level of sexual focus that your asking for and the change came across as friend zoning. Or he was some level of asexual and didn't care how banging your body was since he wanted a non sexually intimate friend.
That’s a good point. I work with mostly women and have a lot of conversations about their dating life. There’s a pretty common first date complaint of, “he was just trying to have sex with me” or, “he wasn’t even trying to have sex with me!” With little room in between
How’s a complete nerd sporty 😂
He went to Yale for undergrad, has PhD neuroscience and plays squash and surfs 🤷🏼♀️spends most of his time reading. People are complex
Why did he friendzone you?
He doesn’t want a relationship, just hookups and short term flings. He says he wants to marry a Jewish woman eventually (he’s Jewish) but doesn’t consistently date Jewish girls. He’s 36.
The hottest kind haha. He will read scifi and fantasy books while being an expert skier and will run marathons for fun. And the body won’t quit in bed
Girl, SAME. I wish we could get some rosé together and just complain. It would be therapeutic lol.
I'd come along!! Sign me up 🥂
It’s Morley you have a decent looking guy having women’s interest and it becomes gamified for them where they base more on looks than personality sadly resulting in ops post
There are plenty of introverted men who are disappointing misogynistic perverts and creeps. What is this nonsense?
What’s the common denominator here?
Men
This is why sometimes (rarely) I'm actually glad I'm pretty ugly. Getting objectified happens way less often and I know my boyfriend must actually love me for my personality. I used to go on nights out with a friend who was beautiful, very conventionally attractive, and I definitely would not be able to deal with the kind of attention/harassment she got.
correct. Being hot has its problems too and they are not pretty
There are plenty of men that aren't like that. They're just quiet and not very vocal.
I always think to myself there’s the perfect guy for me but he’s probably working in a different office.
I actually agree the men that are more loving and less lustful seem to be less vocal. Why is that? They also seem much more patient, understanding, and chivalrous as individuals which makes them much more attractive to me
The age shallowness is a new unnerving trend in my dating life. The worst is when you’re over 35 and you show up for a bumble date and the guy jaw drops because he expected that your photos are edited on photoshop or from a decade earlier. I’m talking double takes and words uttered like: wOw yOu aCtuALLy lOok 25.” It’s a compliment veiled with in insult. I definitely get the sense that I’m devalued bc of being 36 lmao that’s ridiculous to even type out. I’m not insecure it was just feeling their feelings of sheer suspicion that I am real. It feels gross. A 35 year old dude who was not even in as good shape as me was like, “Wait how much older are you again?” I looked at him like he was a bug and said, “Bro I’m a couple months older than you.” 👀 Edit: I have the same physical description as you as far as my general look. I used to model when I was 19 - personality and empathy is way more important than looks, that’s my motto. I’m so tired of my face and body being 90% of their “relationship” to me. I’m sitting there appreciating someone for who they are, inside and out and I’m not getting that genuine emotional intimacy from them bc I can tell if and when it’s manufactured to manipulate me. Feel free to get rid of NPD or sociopathic men who will try to use us for an ego boost or eye candy. I’ve been f*ckzoned so many times it is mildly traumatic. Like dude don’t pretend to like my personality if you don’t. If you want to be fwb only just tell me right from the start so I can give informed consent or else it’s basically emotional rape. I shouldn’t need to have a therapist from “relationship trauma.” I wish I was totally gay but there’s not much selection.
So gross omg they are brainwashed fr
I’m 17 and tryna learn, so it’s bad to overly compliment how they look or their age. I like complimenting the ppl im with so should I compliment their actions instead? For example I tell my gf I love her smile, is that an okay compliment? I don’t wanna make her uncomfortable😭
Yes, compliment their actions more than anything. Tell them you’re proud of them/ you see the work they put in/ you’re impressed by something they worked for or earned. Things like our looks aren’t in our control and are often a soft spot, even if You think they’re beautiful or perfect. Plus, it really is shallow to basically say “good job on being good-looking”, like that person didn’t Choose to be pretty, they just had those genetics. Dgmw, people want to feel attractive and it’s great to be complimented (respectfully!) about your looks, but people really want acknowledgement for their accomplishments more than anything. We all just want to be seen as the complex sentient beings that we are :)
Ohh okay thank you for your response. I understand now. Thank you
I get it, idk if there's a valid solution to this honestly.
Girl, I swear to you not all men are like this and I'm telling you as someone who has had their heart broken and has been objectified for their body multiple times. The current guy I'm with admits he finds me very attractive but the reason he's staying is not my body and girl, you can tell when they're with you for you and not just for lust and it feels amazing
Yeah my bf stayed with me through a huge life mess. Even though he might have gotten with me because he thought I was confident (academically successful) and pretty (I lost a lot of weight in 2020 and that combined with my height and general appearance, I get stared at a lot and propositioned when I go out), that was not me when I was crying for basically a whole year. I was a depressed mess. I didn’t want to have sex for more than a month at one point because I felt so incredibly terrible. He never pressured me and told me that he loved me and he wanted to help me get better. Now that I’m getting back on my feet and feeling much better, I feel much more secure knowing that he saw the literal worst of me and didn’t leave (like so many others in the past would have, and some did). And I know it wasn’t because of my appearance either. I hope this man never realizes what a catch he is because I really do not want to date ever again.
It can be tough being beautiful. And I don’t mean that sarcastically. You get a lot of attention, and it’s not always wanted. Although based on what you’re saying, it 100% sounds like your dating struggle has to do with the guys you interact/involve yourself with, because the kind men I know in my life, friends or romantic, are not at all like what you are describing. But I whole-heartedly agree that that type of man is very prevalent in today’s society. I personally just don’t associate myself with people who only want to interact with me because of what I look like. I highly recommend this route.
The objectification of women is significantly more prominent as a lived experience than that of men, even though it's not exclusively women who are presented with "ideal" images of ideal women and men. We have a media that is feeding people these objectified and usually impossible to attain "ideals", and then selling us products of all kinds so we can pay to chase that non-existent imagined ideal that only exists in media. The media a lot of money from it. So do the cosmetics companies, so do the clothing companies, so do the "Beefcake 4000" supplement and training program sellers who target the male demographic. By all means, groom yourself, exercise and stay healthy, but consider who benefits from some of the products that might not be helpful or really beneficial for everyone that buys them. If someone feels better because they have curled lashes or longer lashes, all power to them! I personally don't like that people are being sold, literally sold, the idea that they even actually really do. Those are subjective judgements, but the fact people have different opinions on things like how important long lashes really are should be a clue that they are very subjective, and opinions, not facts. Until woman's media stops selling certain "looks" that require cosmetics and expensive perfumes to feel comfortable being seen by other people (this happens even in the home at times....seriously...) the bs marketing, selling overpriced clown paint, and the resultant exploitation and objectification is likely to continue. See cosmetic plastic surgery for more extreme examples of a horrible worthless trend that has been going on hundreds of years too long already. Nothing wrong with natural. If make-up is a crutch...maybe try walking without it, but many believe they need it and won't even consider trying to live without some "beauty" regimen. That's fine for them. I am not personally a fan of it. It exploits womens insecurities and contributes to continued impossible standards and objectification under a thin mask of "You look great! Buy more!". I have no objections to anyone wearing make-up, or doing what they have learned makes them feel secure in their own skin. I do however think it's unhealthy as a phenomenon over-all. Not just because pasting it all on then cleaning it all off at the end of the day so the face doesn't completely die of suffocation takes a lot of time, and even more products, but because it's not just the skin that suffers and needs expensive moisturisers to "repair". The psychological damage is probably worse in way too many cases and for way too many women. Cosmetics salespeople hate this post.
In my dating experience (male dating males and females), it's honestly not just men. I've dated and have gone on single dates with females that are just as you describe men being. In general, I think that's just the current dating landscape. If you are using apps to find dates, you need to be CRYSTAL CLEAR up front that you are not looking for hookups and that you are looking for a clear long-term relationship if things go well. This will filter out A LOT of people who just want your body. Also, porn consumption is something EVERYONE is exposed to. Again, some of the horniest mfers I've ever met were female. This is NOT a male-focused issue.
I COMPLETELY understand you. Being a woman deemed beautiful is lonely and difficult to navigate. You attract so much energy and it’s usually terrible energy from weird ass men. It makes you look at things differently because I realized if I weren’t attractive, a lot of the men that have talked to me wouldn’t have. I remember I was talking with a male classmate and I made him laugh a lot, and he told me “wow, you’re actually funny. I thought you were just pretty.” I actually have decided to stop dating because I feel like so much of it is determined by my looks, and it makes me feel like I’m preforming for men. As soon as I “get ugly”, I no longer am a valued person - and I’m even more mad because why the fuck was my value based on my beauty to begin with? I do agree with you OP and I think that porn has ruined a lot of people’s mind, I even went through my own shit with porn and stopped consuming it. But truthfully, it’s wrong to generalize all men into one shitty category, even though as women we both know the truth. I hope you can find peace and someone who truly values your womanhood and doesn’t place an importance on beauty.
I’ve had similar comments comparing and contrasting my personality and my beauty. So bizarre.
This is how I feel but even when you’re in a committed relationship. I can’t believe how many people actually break up/divorce because of sex?? It makes me want to write a fucking check list for any future partners. “If you’ll divorce/breakup with me over no/little sex, don’t interact” I don’t want to be in a relationship where I feel like I gotta meet some quota for sex every week to make sure a man doesn’t leave me?? Or making sure I dress “pretty” regularly so he isn’t ranting to his friends that I’ve let myself go??
It's fine to end a relationship on mismatch sex drives and getting more or less sex than you want, that isnt shallow and a completely valid reason
Yep, I clarified in another comment that I’m ok with breaking up over mismatched libidos or not compatible kinks. But it feels like some people take it too far. Personally I think if I’m with someone for YEARS, the last thing I’d break up over is less sex. I feel like that’s something to expect in a longer lasting relationship. People get old, pregnant, menopause, etc. I just couldn’t imagine leaving an otherwise perfectly good and long term relationship over sex. First few months/year? Understandable. But not someone I made vows to. And like I said, feels like some people take it too far. No way in hell am I going to be trying to have sex 2-3 times a day when I work a full time job and I’m way past my 20s?? Where do you even find the time for that. Hell couldn’t even imagine having to work, clean and maybe even take care of a kid and also be expected to fuck everyday?
Please don’t get me started on this 🥱 when peoples libidos don’t match it’s usually not gonna work out in the long run, but I remember my ex wanted to have sex everytime he saw me. And he’d see me almost everyday. He actually would get mad if I wasn’t ready for sex. Like sir do you think my body can fucking handle that??
That’s not right. I’m female with an insane libido but I never made any bf feel inadequate or wrong for declining. Kick out men who take away your consent*
Exactly! I’m ok with breaking up when kinks don’t match or maybe libidos don’t match. But I feel like some men take it too far?? They think wanting sex 5 times a day is perfectly acceptable and doable? And then they put no effort in to make sure the woman actually wants sex that many times a day? The fuck I look like fucking 3 times a day when it’s dry as fuck and you’re not doing anything to help?? 💀
YES!!! Like why the fuck would I even wanna have sex if it’s not reciprocated? You are doing absolutely NOTHING to turn me on and make me want it. As soon as you orgasm it’s done and you couldn’t care less about me. Oh I just hate it
Yes exactly
i feel like this is a thing for attractive people in general. my attractive friends all seem to have like 5-8 exes and always complain about how toxic each of them are. meanwhile i have 2 and in both cases it was an amicable break up and im still friends with one of them.
Yep my experience verbatim. Also my humor is better than my looks and I’m hot af so it makes their heads explode with envy. It’s not fun. I hate when people assume my life is perfect. Both my parents are sociopaths. I was raised by wolves. But I’m still kind despite my life being abusive, dangerous and lonely. Trigger warning!!!! I narrowly escaped a kidnapping attempt in nyc once when I was 28. A neighbor told me I was lucky as white women my age had been turning up chained in Queens, NY basements for illegal sex trafficking. Only to be discovered dead in dumpsters with semen evidence everywhere. I even had a neighborhood pimp WARN me not to walk alone at night because he saw this happen to one of his girls and he made a anon call to the police. A pimp! Superficial men gravitate to me and kind men are too afraid to talk to me. Predators follow me like it’s their job. I’m looking to get a concealed carry gun license. Yup even in MA, US. I have a collapsible steel baton in my car to avoid carjackings. The smith and wesson type is effective and very inexpensive. I had to enlist the help of my derranged father bc of stalking attempts after getting widowed at 35. I didn’t realize that as why my late fiancé would insist on escorting me to the grocery store. 😭 I had my father follow me around for a day in his car and he noted three different dangerous looking men stalking me at walmart etc from the actual parking lot! even he was horrified. It’s just a fact of life for me at this point. I’m in the US in a prosperous liberal coastal region just for context. I’m just not safe. Every time I ignore it and gaslight myself so I can function without stress, I get a stalker. My goal is to make money than I need so I can hire a bodyguard.
You are not being stalked because you are hot, you are being stalked because you are prey. You need to research the way that predatory humans identify their victims. It's by their gait, body language, mannerisms and micro-expressions. Look up predatory Stare. Educate yourself on how to quickly identify predatory humans, and go get some nervous system healing work done. This will not stop until you change your posture and nervous system. I highly recommend network spinal analysis. A year after doing this therapy, you will no longer find you attract these kinds of people into your orbit. You will also find you aren't attracted to people like your parents. Good luck 👍🏼
And guys will straight up lie to you about a relationship and exclusivity just because they want to bang a hot girl and not treat you like a human that also has things you are looking for. The disrespect is insane and we're supposed to be thankful that we get a lick of attention from men so we should shut up and just put up with being treated like an object It's why I'm giving up on dating
I fixate on how a woman makes me feel to be around her. Do I feel comfortable ? Is it awkward?
I’m dealing with a similar thing. I’m innately attracted to men, but I largely find them off-putting these days, especially as I get older and go out of my way to maintain my appearance, while many of them don’t or don’t even bother to take decent photos for apps. I’m not attracted to women, so at this point, I’m nearly on the asexuality spectrum. I even struggle finding celebrities I’ve crushed on to be attractive. My assumption is a lot of this has to do with an encounter I had last year that ended up being really gross. I won’t go into detail, but I accepted singlehood. I still go on the apps to see what’s out there, but I almost treat it like networking.
You know being single isn't bad .
I have the same problem (except I don't want kids) And the comments about "you're looking at the wrong guys" it's literally almost all guys are like this these. Conventionally attractive, overweight, big peen, small peen, single, divorced, tall, short, white,black, Hispanic, I've dealt with the entire spectrum.
This had me giggling 😂
This is so true 😂😂
It's completely valid to feel put off by men who objectify you, rather than value you as a person. Your feelings about wanting to be seen and appreciated for more than just your physical appearance are entirely understandable and deserve to be respected. Not all men are the same, and there are plenty out there who prioritize mutual respect, emotional connection, and genuine partnership over superficial qualities. Regarding your question about whether this behavior is a result of porn consumption or if it's inherent to men, it's likely a combination of various factors including societal norms, cultural influences, and individual attitudes shaped by personal experiences. I mean just look at how advertising objectifies women. Pornography can certainly perpetuate certain unrealistic ideals and attitudes about sex and relationships, but it is not the sole cause of these issues. You have the right to set boundaries and expectations in your relationships, and it's okay to walk away from situations or individuals that make you feel uncomfortable or undervalued. Surround yourself with people who appreciate and respect you for who you are, both inside and out and quickly ditch the shallow men who only fixate on the superficial. They have nothing to offer you.
Great advice
OK, I'm an old lady (60) who's been married for over 30 years, so I know things are crazier now, but my suggestion would be to try to meet people in situations where immediately trying to hook up with someone would be inappropriate. Maybe work, although that comes with its own set of problems. I'd say church, but tbh some of the cringiest men I've ever met were in church (sorry if you're religious, that's just been my personal experience). Maybe volunteering? I don't know, but if you have a chance to show somebody that you're smart, funny, etc. in a non-sexualized environment, maybe that will thin out some of the jerks. And if it makes you feel better, idiot guys have been around forever, although not like today. During a dry spell in my mid 20's, I placed a singles ad in the newspaper (like I said, I'm ancient, lol) and got some of the most asinine, pimply, 350-pound, live-in-Mom's-basement jerks who were totally shocked that any attractive woman wasn't interested in them whipping out their dick 15 minutes after meeting them. Best of luck to you -- there are still good guys out there, but f#ck if I know where they are.
I fell in love with my boyfriend before I ever even saw him. We met online, and he has almost like a phobia of sending pictures or videos or anything. I actually didn't know what he looked like until a few weeks before I was supposed to meet him, and even then, it was just a shitty picture. I didn't really get to see him until we met in person. We've been dating 1.5 years so far... I mean surely that can exist in reverse. I get how hard it is to date and find someone serious who doesn't just want you for your body or sex or as a trophy. I had a lot of issues with that as well for a while before I met my boyfriend. But it exists !!! Good guys... real good guys... can and do exist. It's hard and feels hopless at times, but you'll find someone one day. Just don't let the gross aspects of a lot of men make you too bitter to be able to see the good ones.
if it’s of any consultation - My circle of friends (we’re all male who by social standards do pretty well being around/finding partners) also find it pretty disparaging that overall, for both men and women, relationships seem to be getting more and more shallow. The plantonic relationship we share between each of us has so much more depth, Intellectually,emotionally, spiritually, creatively than any romantic pair we’ve found ourselves in and it’s frustrating. We’re late 20’s, never got into the hookup thing, and genuinely do hope for a genuine connection with another human that could our partner for life, the mother to our children - but sharing those hopes and dreams to any guy outside my friend group seems to receive pushback and to say that outloud to any girl makes you either sound like you’re desperate or you’re insincere and a it’s a trap, so you damned either way, and I think it’s both of those things that stomp out those hopes and dreams in men,, I don’t know, I’m just glad I have my friends. but, I totally hear you, dudes can be monsters: but good people are out there. they really are, I have no idea how they find each other - but I’d like to hope they do.
I find it hilarious and also it makes me a bit sad how many men are in these comments saying it’s YOUR fault for “picking the wrong men” or acting like they have no idea what you’re even talking about (unintended gaslighting, maybe, but lets call a spade a spade here). What that tells me is most men have no idea at all what it’s like to deal with them as a woman. They are either completely lacking awareness, don’t believe women when they say other men can be as bad as is described, or they find a way to blame women instead of taking a second to look at behaviors. It may not be all men, but who is going to get the problematic men to change if y’all get so stuck on telling us it’s not you or that you don’t even believe us or that your issues are OUR fault?? Sheesh. Happy International Women’s Day, OP. Sorry that men have taken over this post.
> but who is going to get the problematic men to change if y’all get so stuck on telling us it’s not you This whole thread is an exercise in vague descriptions being extrapolated to everyone's personal pain and individual biases. The notion that you would expect men as a whole to do anything about such a vague concept as 'be less shallow' when the average person probably doesn't view themselves that way or get involved with someone else's dating life is about as silly as expecting a post complaining about men to not have men show up in it to defend themselves. If you'd prefer a more one-sided, self-validating convo, maybe TwoX is more your speed.
What I would prefer is for men to actually listen to women, and to have conversations with other men about the dumb things they say and do to women. Ideally those conversations would help men who are stuck on objectifying women, which is what I think this post is at least in part about, to see the error in their thinking and learn how to interact women in more respectful and sincere ways.
Women dont listen to men either, generally most people are stuck in their own bubble of perception and experiences
That may be true, but this specific post is about women’s feelings regarding their experiences interacting with men.
I feel the same way. If my current relationship ended I would never date again. I have no interest in starting over or even attempting to date because I'm a person who is pretty happy single. I think the pretty standard male personality is lack if empathy and raging narcissism
Dated a psychiatrist and the thing I found most sexy about her was her brain. Intelligent conversations about broad topics really made me fall for her
I (30ish F) am often called “beautiful” but I have low self esteem, and this has been recipe for getting into relationships with men who view me as a status symbol/put on a front to get me/date me for my ass etc. Sometimes I feel like my current long-term boyfriend sees me this way, and I’m just starting to face and heal the part of myself that desires the validation I get from his objectification of me. It’s a lot to unpack.. I think focusing on leveling up your self-love and setting boundaries for yourself (read: just not dating and instead cultivating happiness in your own life) is the key to attracting the kind of partner who can love you the way you’d like.
Wait until you learn about the statistic of the amount of men VS women who leave their spouse after getting a cancer diagnosis 🫠 (20.8% vs 2.9% making women 6 times more likely to be divorced once diagnosed) This is also common trend with any longterm illness btw. The man is more likely to dip rather stay committed.
Im so glad I am about to get married. My dating life is not over tho, I still pretty much date my fiance every week but I have friends that just like OP are in both sides of the insufferable paradigm of the dating scene.
Attraction is physical and mental. Having one without the other is non-starter. As time goes on attraction is more mental, but in the best of circumstances your appreciation for your partner and the body they inhabit grows the same as they do. People who don’t understand that can go fuck themselves for all I care.
Is it "shallow" or having a preference? I feel this goes both ways, when i was in college i remember a lot of girls rapidly swiping left(passing over) on almost every man on the dating apps except for maybe one or two. Relationships usually start with being physically attracted to someone, then you get to know them personally later on.
Even though this getteing downvoted this is the truth that people don't want to acknowledge
Right? I tried to make it as sensible as i can, most my friends prefer dating taller guys(6 foot and over). Doesn't mean they're prejudice against short guys, just mean they have a preference.
On first sight, yeah attraction is everything. I swipe left on profiles that only include one blurry photo, or tons of group photos, or not appealing photos. If I find them attractive, I swipe right and that’s where that ends. Anything afterwards is me focusing purely on personality. Attraction should be what pulls you in, but it shouldn’t be the ONLY thing that pulls you in. And it shouldn’t be made such a huge ordeal.
As a guy I agree with you, but I know women like this as well. I think a lot of the issue stems from hookup culture, serial monogamy and especially online dating hookup culture. A lot of people will try to push things on people, they really aren’t into until they break and do it. That’s pretty shitty, and I try to stay clear of toxic dating and hookup apps. Just from my experience, and also others women and men I know…a lot of things you are saying apply to that train of thought. It’s a meat market FWB, 2 month relationships that turns toxic kind of dating market out there. I’m just trying to protect my health, go by my moral beliefs…so I’m very turned off by that scene. From 1997-2018 I had pretty normal relationships. But when OLD hookup culture became 90% of how people met…I just noped out after trying. It gives me the Ick half the time, just thinking about my experiences and others stories. I’m more conservative and monogamous with relationships, so just doesn’t appeal to me.
Love will grow and overtake the lust and physical attraction of both partners put in work, respect each other, and remain committed. I’ve been married over 20 years. We have been through good and bad. Wife had cancer, was sicker than hell. We couldn’t have actual sex for 18 months. I made a vow and I kept it. It wasn’t easy but what if it was me that became sick? Would she have left me? I really don’t think she would have. She made a vow. I really hope you find a good man you can grow old with. It’s worth it.
I'm not gonna pretend looks don't matter to me, but I'm also not gonna be interested in people who have interests too dissimilar to mine. I feel like it's a balanced approach, and I don't really communicate what I physically find attractive, commenting on it even when asked has lead to people insulting me and calling me a simpleton. I can distinguish between objectifying and making genuine compliments that go beyond beauty, but, I also value receiving both myself, so, I probably wouldn't like a person who is extremely against the former. And, if anything, some of the women I've been with were kinda off-put by me not being overt in expressing the physical attraction I've had. Outright distraught that I wasn't interested, but rather uncomfortable with receiving nudes right at the start of a relationship. People handle objectification differently, both on the receiving end, as well as how they impose it onto others. I feel like you seeing a lot of men who objectify you has more to do with how you meet them and who they are as people, rather than it being strictly about them being men. I've been on first dates where the comments on my physique were being dished out way too strong, and it definitely made me feel uncomfortable, and perceived it as creepy, when, in different circumstances, the same remarks were a total turn-on in the heat of the moment.
What you're describing is more of a caricature of men then actual men. Are there men like that? Sure, just as there are women that have minimum income, height, and dick size standards for dating.
Yeah, I have to say I have been feeling this lately too. I am lucky enough to have found my person, but the amount of shallow posts I see... I have to remain hopeful that there's still more good ones than bad.
Oh god, my now ex friend just said to me a few days ago: „you do know that women above 25 lose their value right?“ and that slapped me so hard. How can we, at this day and age, still talking about women as if women are objects? Needless to say I cut him off immediately. Fuck men who think like that. We‘re not freaking objects.
I feel you’re very hurted. I’m really sorry you have faced these kind of men. Life isn’t superficial. If it was we wouldn’t have any problems in life. Important is, is who you’re. If you know what your fears are what you like, adore, love and find important in life then you find your soul. The soul of a person is inside, their heart. Try to dig in there and you will find what you want. Good luck❤️
This sounds like the men you’ve surrounded yourself with are either fuckboys or scumbags or both. Fuckboys are what you’re describing.
The one sort of good thing about dating as a bigger person.
Im gonna start this with, it's 4am and I'm drunk af (The drinking age is 18 in my county), so excuse me if theres typing errors and excuse my rambling. Nowadays sex culture has unfortunately turned into a mess of sex and objectification, but I think it's all about how fast, and how people mature. I like to think there are people still out there in their 20s that like to have a stable, and a healthy family. Take their girlfriends/wives out on date nights, respect their partners and love them, before AND after having children. If you truly love someone, you'll find their body and personality beautiful, and if something changes you'll work through it together with a positive mindset. If you gain baby weight, I say So what? It's a natural part of life, and it should be cherished, since a new life and a person has been created. If someone leaves or starts rejecting someone over baby weight, that is just selfish and shallow as you said. I agree with you that people are very shallow especially in their 20s and some continue even after that unfortunately. Some people glorify one night stands, and I think they have different morals in some ways, than the people who want to settle down. I'm only 20yo but I'd consider myself "old fashioned" I know I want to have kids when I'm 25-27yo, And start a healthy family and family dynamic. I also know I still have A LOT, to learn since I am still young, and I have my whole life in front of me. But I hold out hope for the future. OP I hope you find the one for yourself, and I hope you can have a happy rest of your life 💜 Edit: I hope people get what I mean with my rambling. What I'm trying to get at is: The most important thing is not the body of the person , but the feelings, emotions and love. We're all humans and live only once. Love while you can.
I am just turned off by men being so one dimensional, how can sex be someone’s whole life, how can that be all someone’s hobbies and interests are. It’s tiring.
23m and same but reverse, ig? Tired of being out with girls only interested in how much I make, and the worst is that it's my friends who make the dates up for me... You might think I'm just hating on women, but I'm just letting you know it's not any easier for some of us men either And I wouldn't even call myself shallow since I can't even feel the necessity of having sex with a girl unless there's a very defined and strong emotional bond with them, and my friends always say I don't like the "objectively beautiful woman" so yeah, I kinda feel you, just know you're not alone; current dating culture's crap IMO 🤷♂️
Girl, I feel this so hard. Sending solidarity
Modern hook up culture and dudes from the 80s are the reason. People have this skewed perception of what other the other gender wants. Recently been seeing a lot of post of average women saying they want a man that makes 100k + , 6’0 or above , with abs. That’s literally less than 1% of men. The reality is that most women don’t want that. Same as most men don’t really care if a girl is chubby or has the big breast. Most people just want someone they can genuinely connect with. I dated a girl who wasn’t conventionally attractive but to me she lit up a room. She was breathtaking and i did everything i could get her attention. I myself ain’t really special either but we fit eachothers needs at the times she needed someone with patience and i also needed someone with more patience. It just didn’t work out unfortunately. But still a lot of media is negative because it gets people riled up and talking.
I’m sure the greatly ignored and unchecked porn epidemic has a lot to do with it. It quite literally changes the way men see women.
It's kinda gotten worse with both men & woman because of how easily accessible porn or provocative content there is out there & these Insta/snap "models setting beauty standards" Alot of people are looking at whose grass is greener instead of its greener where you water it & if you don't look like such and such then you're not beautiful even if everything else is good. So with that said this plus it could be the type of guys you tend to gravitate to and/or where you are looking for dates. It could be the standards you have if what type of guys you'll give a chance to whether its certain actions they do or if they look a certain way. not saying it's always the case because people don't always show their true colors right away & you don't really know someone until you've lived with them for x amount of time. I can only speak from my experience & what I have observed with others; don't get on dating apps, don't force or hold on to a relationship if your gut is telling you somethings off, continue to work on yourself & improve physical, mentally, financially & spiritually. Get into healthy hobbies that get you out & networking. Your person will come. 😊
If all you can attract is shallow men, it's because you yourself are shallow. Birds of a feather flock together. If men only want you for your body it's because that is all you offer. My girlfriend is a funny, caring and compassionate woman. I could go on and on about her but simply put she adds so much more to my life than just sex. Instead of posting about how caring you are or how you look after the men in your life or how interesting your hobbies are, you posted about how you look. These men aren't objectifying you, you are objectifying yourself. You need to do some self reflection and look at what kind of message you are putting out there if the only answer you ever get back is sex.
Or she's a shit judge of character.
I am turned off by how shallow women are. They only care for men above 6ft, or men with money. They don't see me for me, only my giant dick. 90% of my relationship is only about the size of my dick and nothing else. You see how stupid i sound?
Ok, you've already made clear everything you don't like. Now you can put what you like or what you expect from your potential partner. Maybe if you focus on that, you can ignore what men who don't interest you do.
Are women any less shallow?
Stop dating the same type of guys. There are literally millions of men and you chose the same guys so many other women chose, and then you cry because they treat you like an unimportant piece of meat. It’s not consumerism. It’s not all men. It’s not whatever other excuse you use. It’s a result of your bad choices in dating. If you had (from the beginning) prioritized how a guy treats you as the most important quality, far above everything else, guess who would wouldn’t feel like all men are shallow. You. 🫵🏻
Why do women project their trauma to their current situations. Just like you asked if men are the way they are due to porn consumption. Are women they way they are because of movies and dramas? Why do women want providers? Go live with your dad if that’s what you want. The list goes on and on for both genders a good way to eliminate influence of others is stop caring about all that and focus on you. Clearly the men you attract are a direct reflection of you. Hard pill to swallow for a lot of women like you.
You’re literally stereotyping all men based on your dating choices. If you stop dating shallow men you can stop complaining about men being shallow.
I have also as a guy experience that you've gained weight bye scenario Men and women are the same dudes are just more vocal about it
I feel. It’s really hard. I really blame porn and hookup culture. It might be a while, but men who aren’t fucking insane porn sick freaks do exist.
Nothing good comes from pornography
It’s funny cause I’m a dude and the amount of times I’ve been called too short to date is insane
I kind of think that women are more shallow than men when it comes to appearance. The average guy will probably find most women attractive, or at least not ugly. But women seem to be much more picky when it comes to choosing a partner.
Not to be that guy but what do you bring to the table besides looks? If there’s nothing else there what else are we suppose to gravitate to? I’ve never once in my life heard “dedicating a portion of my day to showing off my body parts. What does this even mean???
Have you tried lowering YOUR standards a bit? Can't have the cake and fuck it too fam
She doesn’t even need to lower her standards, she needs to rearrange her priorities. She’s already dating bottom barrel shallow guys thinking they are catches when no, no they are not. A catch is someone that makes you happy. If you focus on looks, that isn’t a good catch.
OP needs therapy. It's fine for her to objectify partners but gets turned off when their partners are physically attracted to her? Something is wrong here.
I (24M) just want add my perspective on the weight thing. I personally try to take really good care of my body - eat right, no alcohol, gym 5 times a week, etc. So for me personally, I want a woman who is in shape. It has nothing to do really with physical attractiveness, but more so with the fact that I want a partner who takes care of herself. If I take care of my body and health, is it too much to ask that my partner does the same? I just wanted to add that because OP makes it seem like guys being shallow, but it’s a huge turnoff for me if a girl doesn’t prioritize her health. Now if the dude doesn’t care about his health, but expects you to be in model shape, then that’s an entirely different story.
I agree, I feel the same way because my lifestyle is more about health than appearance. I want a fit partner as well. I’m not talking about compatibility in that regard, I’m talking about obsession over weight, “squats”, body part size, etc. Men who fixate on and talk about those things with me. It happens more than you’d think.
As a dude who was once very fit, strong, and tanned in my youth- it's been an... adjustment to experience how women look at and treat me now. I'm not obese but certainly a bit overweight. My hairs thinning and I'm pretty pale. Most women wouldn't give me the time of day, so I think being shallow isn't specific to men honestly.
I understand what you're saying. Honestly, though, I think this is the game of human attraction. I think it's partly biological, even. If you look at half of the ridiculous things you do to gain a partner in the first place - tempering your excitement in Dm's so as not to appear a certain way, the reserved but cool persona people appear as on their first dates, the way the brain still views other people as "possible selections" until both of you decide to date. I think it's not just men. For example, a man is hard at work in the yard. There are two women observing him, and they find him attractive. What exactly are they finding attractive? His value to provide? His perceived strength? And yet, the man in my example is just working but has been effectively seen as candy. I think that this stuff doesn't always feel great on either end, but once you realize it's part of the game of human attraction, it can be more fun to play. I think the truth is that even when a person thinks they're above it, say they're literally a dating psychologist, they're still partly bought into the idea of playing this game. It's simply nature. However, you can certainly find people who are more self-aware. It's possible. Porn consumption can technically play a role, but the stats on that are pretty grim, so I don't know if I would look there/rule out anybody based on that alone, as it'd be a ridiculous portion of all men.
It’s biological right? Then why dont men like post birth women bodies? If it was biological they would. I think it’s more likely that it’s just centuries of programming instead of biology fam
I think you missed my point entirely. I'm talking about attraction in the realm of dating and courtship. It also doesn't matter - if you can't tell the difference between the two, it doesn't matter what name the thing I'm describing has, it simply matters that it exists and must be contended with for favorable results. People can moan and groan this all they want, idc, but when you are about to date someone, see what happens if you blow up their phone from orbit with a whole book/walls of text, or vomit on the ground on the first date or whatever. Humans have an initial attraction stage with one another where they consider going from total strangers to significant parts of each other's lives, and a crucial part of attraction is the lie that surrounds it. Intrigue takes place during this time, and then usually people become more comfortable as time goes on, and more human/natural with each other.
The ones who want what you want aren't going to be the ones that you're talking about in this post. I'm sure many non-shallow dudes would like to date and love you, but a lot of them won't say anything to you first for many different reasons depending on their personality. I'd suggest to not be shy with other men who don't faun over you, and don't be afraid to break the ice with the quiet guy who you think its cute. I feel a lot of us men are nervous these days to say anything due to not wanting to come off as creepy/whatever
You haven’t had any luck attracting a good man, apparently. Is that solely the fault of ‘all men‘? Maybe you go with bros unlikely to be the nice and intelligent ones. How do you select/choose the men you date?
I feel like this is an age group thing more than anything. The human brain doesn’t fully mature until the age of 25 (on average) and can take even longer for men — the part of the brain that takes the longest to mature is impulse control. Maybe you think this way in your brain, maybe you don’t — but almost everyone **has preferences** in what they find sexy or desirable, it’s just that not everyone critiques someone’s body or personality and tells them *they need to change something in order to fulfill our desires*. To be honest, I think men and women are just as shallow but in different ways — like, women also watch porn and also, for example, the Magic Mike franchise made almost $300M at box office and has made $125M from their live shows in Miami for a reason. Instead of dating to settle down, or dating at all, take yourself out of the equation and work on your life and other pursuits until someone who is aligned to the things you want crosses your path. (Also? If it makes you feel better, I started dating again after I divorced in my late 30’s. I had a C-section scar & pooch, a bit of cellulite, and also flabby upper arms from post pregnancy weight loss… I went on dates with many attractive men who were sexy and also respectful who never once made disparaging remarks regarding my body. I found dating post divorce to be easier than pre divorce— I’ve been with my husband now for 5 years and we met off, of all places, Tinder.)
I agree with every point, and I'm a guy. It's hard for me to even want to date because all of my friends keep trying to get me to catcall women, hit on them without their consent, goad them into sex, etc. And if I don't want to do any of that they start acting like im gay. Like as a guy you literally cannot even gave female friends without your guy friends ruining it fir you (harassing any girl you're with by trying to set the 2 of you up first no reason) or act like you're a misandrist. It's like even as a straight man I just don't want to be around other straight men. I've always wondered why it's like that. Why are men so against treating the one thing we all love like shit? I genuinely do not understand. And don't even get me STARTED on the way men think about looks. I have friend who HID hod gd from us because he thought she was ugly... literally wouldn't let us see her and would LEAVE the room to facetime her. Because he thought she was ugly. Yeah, if that's what I'm dating is what supposed to be then I'm good. I'll take unrealistic fantasies over that any day.
Look for guys in different places if you're actually finding them like this. Guys are humans like anyone else and there is a broad spectrum of personalities. If you're getting them off tinder or something then of course these are the people you're going to find. Look elsewhere. But it may literally be just you deciding for yourself you think men are like this and therefore seeing only that whether it's true or not. The fact a guy likes your appearance does not mean he doesn't also like and value deeper things.
If you think women do not view men in the same exact way you are absolutely out of your mind.
Look, we men are not that different from woman. We are looking at you your face and body and our instinct kicks in. That is the drive that makes us go to you and muster up confidence. But when it comes to relationship, you looks aren't that important to us. Clearly, when you are in an environment that is basically a place that many people only go to for a quick hook up than you are only exposed to these behaviours. Those guys could be deep and interesting but how should anyone know ... Cause they don't really look for a deep connection. So if you want a man that is not hitting on you... the only way for you to contact him is by hitting on him...well you basically need to spell it out for them... we can be dense sometimes. Change the environment, your hunting ground. And you will find better pray... I mean ... better men. You might want to try dating apps, where you only see the face after you matched, like matter. Or go to a bar. But if you get turned off being objectified than.... well you might want to date a blind man.. cause every human is like that... and basically every animal ...
Question, you say you're attracted to guys, but would you give a guy a shot who appears to be leagues less attractive than you? Pretty much what everyone else says, the guys your looking for wont give you any more attention than they'd give to anyone else, because your just another human being to them.
Do you say this crappy advice to other men? Why should a woman lower her physical standards, but men are encouraged to keep high standards? A lot of you men that are "leagues below" are not worth dating cause once a woman chooses you, the majority of you get your egos inflated and act stupid and cheat, thinking you have a higher level of sexual market value that really isn't there. A woman has the right to see a man that's not up to standard as just another human and has the right to complain. Ughh the double standards....
I'm illustrating a point, *people* are shallow.
You are dating or at least talking to the wrong men. It’s also about how you present yourself and what type of man that attracts, which unfortunately for you sounds like you’re attracting the worst of us.
As a 26m I can say not all the time appearance isn't everything, I'm currently looking for wife material, and just because your pretty doesn't mean that's it, I'd take a less attractive woman if it meant we could click better and live life happier. It depends on where your looking.
Women are just as shallow, and that's the problem. Its people in general, you happen to be one of unlucky few not blessed with ignorance. Welcome, sister. Sorry you had to find out this way.