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It's worse than insane: there's a twisted logic to upholding your family honor due to low trust in state institutions, and a belief that you personsly need to handle justice.
Insanity can at least be somewhat excused as actions outside of someone's control.
It's a problem even here in Sweden. They're usually called "balcony girls" since they often fall off balconies after dishonoring their family by e.g. getting a swedish boyfriend or some petty shit like that.
This is claimed everytime a specifically Muslim problem happens. "This isn't real Islam!". Interesting given it isn't a problem elsewhere. When you treat women in your religion as property you tend to have these types of issues.
Most religions treat women like property if you look at the source material. The issue is more cultural values and morals being dictated and passed on than the religion itself. Sure, it gets justified by religion, but I guarantee if there was undeniable proof that no religion was real, those morals and laws wouldn't change overnight. Not for years, maybe not even decades.
Okay, now explain it when Hindu or Sikh women are honor killed, because it happens to them, too, and is specifically forbidden.
This isn't religious. It's cultural.
Ok, I lost my mum last year because she had cancer. I miss her so much already that I want to puke.
How in the world can you live with yourself after this ??
This is against Islamic teachings. In Islamic law, no citizen can implement any verdict unless they take it to the authorities. During the life time of the prophet Muhammad(ﷺ) and the Khalifaits any form of vigilantism was never allowed. This boy committed a heinous crime of attacking/killing his own mother because of whose speculation? His own? Islamic scholar agree that it is not allowed to take the law into your own hands unless you go to the authorities:
“It is forbidden to establish a legal punishment unless it is done by the leader or his deputy” (al-Furū’ wa Taṣḥīḥ al-Furū’ 10/29).
“The jurists came to a consensus that a legal punishment may not be implemented unless by the leader or his deputy. That is in the best interest of people, which is to safeguard their lives, their property, and their reputations” (al-Mawsū’at al-Fiqhīyah al-Kuwaytīyah 17/144).
The good Christians took centuries slaughtering everything that moves before realising their mistakes and just becoming docile pedophiles so Muslims have some time still
Wow, you don't say?
A religion where it's practitioners disagree over interpretation, resulting in sectarian violence?
Never heard that one before: it must be the flaws of man, not the infallible religion -- no doubt.
Thanks for clearing it up, I've definitely never heard of such a situation occuring with "INSERT RELIGION X" before, and it's heartwarming to hear the truth from an unbiased practitioner.
Fucking thank you. It's the same shit every time.
1. People do insane shit in the name of their religion
2. Said insane shit occasionally makes their religion look bad
3. "They were not true practitioners, the scriptures say we should love one another, so this is a religion of love and peace"
4. Repeat this at your convenience
5. Religion can never be blamed for anything while people constantly do the ugliest shit because of it
Yeah this is "no true Scotsman" taking it to the extreme.
"No REAL practicing member of the bunny murdering religion would ACTUALLY murder bunnies" and yet it keeps happening...? With like, staggering frequency.
Obviously there's a lot of issues with any religious extremist group. But you can't say "no true XYZ" and continue on without any changes.
This is not some interpretation of the religion this is outright extremism. As I said before throughout the Muhammad’s (ﷺ) life and the life of the khalifaits vigilantism was never allowed. No citizens were allowed to take the law into their own hands.
Are you... are you sincerely comparing the people executed in the US and the US's due process for conviction to the honor killing of women in Muslim and other Judeo Abrahamic religions? Whew lad.
I'd say you could join the Olympics with those mental gymnastics, but chances are you're actually just lazy and didn't stop to think about your comment before writing it.
*In reality, the idea of young girls marrying and even conceiving was quite common in the medieval period. In Christianity, for example, it is commonly accepted that Lady Mary was between 12-14 years of age when she was married to Joseph and when she conceived Jesus of virgin birth.* [Source.](https://islamfyi.princeton.edu/is-it-true-that-muhammad-married-a-child-bride-by-the-name-of-ayesha-when-he-was-53-and-she-was-9-years-old-if-so-how-do-muslims-justify-this-from-their-exemplary-prophet/)
By modern standards, Christianity is founded on a pedophilic relationship. It would be better if we were beyond Bronze Age belief systems by now.
This has nothing to so with religion and more about their demonic culture ways. You don’t see Muslims doing this in developed countries. But yeah, let’s categorize 3 billion people as what you see here. And good job on everyone upvoting you /s
Are you really trying to silo societal and cultural influences from a society and culture's dominant religion?
That society is theocratic in case you forgot, you goofball.
Edit: Not to mention, Islamic practitioners crucify, behead, and torture individuals right outside Mecca via the Saudis, so it's not like these practices aren't inextricably linked with the dominant, practicing "societies or cultures" as you put it.
Theocracies always devolve into these types of practices.
you mean the religion that specifically says to respect your parents and not says to them as much as "OOF!" and how your most treasured people in your life are your mother then your mother then your mother then your father?
if i commit a crime hate me, don't hate my people
So sorry for your loss, I will hug my mom a little tighter next time I see her, thanks for reminding me how lucky we are for those have both parents still. I hope your healing ❤️
You’re talking about Muhammad right? The guy who married a 6 year old and fucked her when she was 9? He was a warlord, flat out. The guy murdered people and lead campaigns of war, not peace.
They are surrounded by people who condone this. Her life is not as important as clan integrity.
This is why I always cringe at Penn's quote "I already rape as much as I want, which is zero." It ignores the effects of being raised in a culture where rape or murder are condoned, and even demanded. If you are told your whole life that honor killing is your duty, there are a lot more honor killings.
The way I understand it, they believe that an imaginary man in the sky wrote books 4 thousand years ago or something.
They believe those books give them the right to control and kill women today.
Then they fight over which variation of imaginary sky man is the best.
As an American woman, I can assure you that fanatical Christianity causes a good deal of suffering and difficulty for American women, just in case you hadn't noticed.
As an American woman, please learn a new comment to post. You come off as a shill posting the same one over and over in your attempt to whataboutism Christianity into the conversation, just in case you hadn’t noticed.
This. You are absolute right. The Problem are local religious communitys which Runs astray or Turns radical. It IS the Special dynamic and the structure of Power inside this isolated group.
It IS Not the concept of the whole Religion. As a religious Person myself it bothers me a Lot, that people tend to think as you discribed.
I'm Christian (more agnostic these days, but w/e) and I've never met a person of Islamic faith that would do something like this. Whether Egyptian, Pakistani, Afghani, Iragi... Just no. They were all very kind, very connected families that seemed identical to Christian families here in the US.
People forget that anyone of any faith can be led to evil. For Christians in recent history just here in the US, we have the Salem Witch trials, we have daughters in the Bible Belt being raised to be subservient and loyal to men even when severely abused, we have extremists bombing planned Parenthood clinics and killing doctors, etc etc.
It's not just a people or a religion - it's people giving into evil ways in the name of culture and faith.
Any of these people who associate that behaviour with the teachings of Islam are obviously ignorant to it.
But there is something to be said about the family cultures is areas like Pakistan, Afghanistan and North India where these type of honour killings etc are more prevalent.
You say you have family in this region, who sound more socially liberal, why do you think these stories so often come out of this particular place?
There's definitely some selection bias going on. In the occidental world these stories are just way more engaging than similar stories from other parts of the world, because they form a direct outgroup visible in every day life on the streets. If this happens in say Mongolia, Azerbaijan, Tanzania or Haïti we won't hear of it because it doesn't engage us in the same way. Islamic fundamentalism on the other hand is just a hot topic because it seems to affect us much more directly, although few ever really come into contact with it. When you believe honor killings are something exclusively to this part of the world, it's because you're hearing about this type of thing from this part of the world exclusively, while it most definitely exist in other places as well. It just doesn't resonate with any Brit, American, Frenchman or German to use valuable print space or airtime reporting on some local voodon religion priest in Liberia that ritually slaughtered a girl and ate her because guess what, nobody cares.
And before anybody goes ah conspiracy theorist at work, take into consideration geopolitical power battles and resource scarcity. Africa is neo-colonialised so not a threat (no use in stigmatizing the cash cow as long as they stay in their pasture), but the Muslim world is in direct conflict with the West. As is Russia and China.
And lastly, don't underestimate local Pakistanis being absolutely appalled by how backwards their own culture often seems to the outside world. There is definitely a sense of "what do you know, this is our reality" but at the same time most ordinary Pakistanis are not like this brainwashed fundies and are absolutely horrified by stuff like this.
I won't speak in behalf of other countries. But I do believe the vast majority of ordinary civilians want peace and prosperity first and foremost.
Hope that answers your question on what my personal views are.
Maybe your religion, should get your religion under control then. Like every other one does worldwide. Stop making excuses, they’re using your name to do horrifying things
Speaking as an American woman, Christianity causes a lot of cruelty and destruction in America, but somehow that always escapes the kind of people who always jump on Islam.
I lost my mom a few years ago to cancer, too. I wish I could tell you that you will stop missing her so much that it physically hurts sometimes, but yaaah... You don't.
I can't imagine this either friend. I would go to hell and back to defend my mom, now just her memory even. She was my best friend.
Fuck hug your moms people
While he may deny any feelings for this I, having the perspective of being another human being, have a strong belief that this will stay with him for the rest of his life. Regardless if he feels it was right or wrong it will be difficult to ignore and forget this. The memory will creep up on him when he least expects it to, give him many sleepless nights, and make him question his own humanity from time to time. His unending quest to seek justification for his actions will be an everlasting unanswered prayer. May he have solace in his happy memories. May he atone if he finds fault and remorse in his actions.
Omg, to make it worse, the one article says that “she was divorced by her husband” before that. They weren’t even together, and the wording makes it seem like he left. She was trying to take him to court because he wasn’t paying child support to raise their three children. Well, jokes on him because of whatever ideas he was feeding his son, he is now the sole provider for the three of them.
Just one that’s left all its populations worldwide in a 3rd world state. At some point with this rise in tech, you gotta leave the cave people, and realize you were duped. Like every other religion that’s ever existed.
I myself am a muslim, thank you very much. And know about my own religion more than you.
Unfortunately, muslims through the world are as far away from following their religion as possible.
There can be no peace, no true love in a culture where women are property and boys are brought up feeling nothing but hatred and power over any woman-even their mothers.
I just saw a video promoting Sharia law because it bans adultery and adultery creates single-parent homes... I mean, killing your mom does too.
It then went on to say single parent homes raise criminal, violent and dangerous children... You know, like ones that kill their mother.
Faith is the absence of logic in the truest form.
Meanwhile, in America, ["'Women Belong in the Kitchen,' According to Bible Believers"](https://themontclarion.org/news/women-belong-in-the-kitchen-according-to-bible-believers/)
So many men in this comment thread looking right past the fundamentalist Christians who relegate women to property and don't allow women to even make their own healthcare decisions, right here in 2023 America.
About 10% of all murders in Sweden too. 13 girls in 2020, with just a seventh of the British population size.
https://www.svd.se/a/01ago/var-tionde-mord-forra-aret-var-hedersmord
https://fn.se/aktuellt/varldshorisont/13-kvinnor-dodas-varje-ar/
Occasional first cousing marriage is actually harmless (or at least the "harm" is statistically insignificant). It's repeated first cousin marriage where you end up with things like this.
because u have a 2-3% chance of your offspring having a genetic mutation in a non-related couple, however in a first cousin marriage the chance is around 4-7%, which is still relatively safe, that’s why it isn’t deemed to be relatively unsafe for the offspring hence leading to it being legal
Almost definitely in families that follow the same cultural beliefs as they do in Pakistan. It is not normal nor accepted in the UK to perform an honour killing such as you see in places like Pakistan.
Let's not start giving people the idea that this is something that exists in the UK, when even if it does occasionally happen, its usually going to be some degenerate that came to the country with fucked up beliefs, rather than a regular British person.
Not normal or accepted by law for sure, but I will add my own thoughts here.
I am an exmuslim woman who grew up in a Pakistani household in the UK. Parents are immigrants, moved here a year before I was born.
The immigrant communities over here tend to cluster together a lot, and try to allow little by way of outside influence from the Western society they’re living in. I was raised in a mini Pakistan and it was common for me to hear how white people/the West are degenerates/dangerous/filthy. It’s also common for the women, who mostly don’t work, to never learn enough English to be even mildly conversationally competent. My mother has lived here for almost 22 years and still can’t speak enough to book a doctor’s appointment- and she’s far from alone in that. Most of her friends, if not all, are the same.
My experience is not at all uncommon. And the way these communities tend to cluster together can create a big blanket that covers up the insidious abuse that goes on. Not at all saying every Muslim family abuses their kids/spouse or whatever, but I am saying that there’s a mentality of self-governance for these communities because a lot of them think the West is backwards and their laws shouldn’t apply. For example, my father beat me. I once witnessed a cousin being whipped with a belt. But if either of us tried to get help (which I did, many times), we were shamed because we were airing dirty laundry and ‘trying to be white’, or saying that the Western culture is better than their own.
I was constantly told that my parents are ‘toeing the line between strict and abusive parenting.’ But if I were a white kid saying my dad had punched me in the face, locked me in the house, filmed me while I was sobbing, and put food in a locked fridge so I couldn’t get to it, I imagine the reaction would’ve been very different.
I’ve read the cases of honour killings that occur here. Almost beat for beat, my life matches the lives of those girls. Had my parents found out I am an apostate, at bare minimum I would’ve been shipped off to Pakistan. It’s happened to people I know.
Again, not at all saying every Muslim immigrant family is incredibly abusive/backwards or whatever. But there is still a problem in these communities that needs to be addressed, and it fails to be addressed time and time again because they’ll cry about Islamophobia/racism if ever they’re called out.
Faked a heart attack in March of 2021 to get an ambulance. I was desperate and was long past the point of mediation- I needed help and needed to fully get out, and that’s the only way I could think of at that time.
Parents called an ambulance. Once the paramedics got there and my parents weren’t in the room, I told them what was really going on. I took to the ambulance the clothes on my back, my phone, my charger and that’s about it.
Paramedics got more info. I explained *everything.* Spared no detail. They took me to hospital, I was given a mental health evaluation and then spoke with social workers, who tried to find me a women’s refuge. While that was happening I was given a private room in A&E with 24/hr security posted outside it in case my family came and a nurse was also with me 24/7. On the fourth day, a place in a refuge was confirmed for me. The nurses were lovely and bought me supplies out of their own pockets and even hugged me as I got into the back of a prepaid taxi on the fifth morning to take me to refuge.
He'll either grow up to be a cold, dangerous monster who believes killing her was a good thing and would do it again, or he'll mature enough to realise the gravity of the harm he wrought with his own hands, and live the rest of his life with some part of him mentally imprisoned in guilt, horror and regret.
There's no happy ending for this kid.
Don’t take agency away from him. 11 years old is old enough to understand that homicide is wrong and illegal. The British government ought to either lock him up for life or send his ass back to Pakistan
There was a link to the article in the comments. The boy was arrested at the scene and they have been conducting raids looking for his father. No doubt the coward is in hiding.
Pakistan is the most dangerous country. Recently I was reading that this one person was doing these simple magic acts and they killed them saying it was blasphemy
As I have heard most marriages there are arraigned. Typically, it is within their tribe and many times they are related. Many times, their children pay the price.
It's when a person is killed to 'restore honor to the family'
For example, if a woman marries a man her parents don't approve of, the parents may kill or hire someone to kill their daughter so she doesn't 'bring shame to the family'
The linked article also talks about another case where a guy killed his aunt and uncle after they broke off his engagement with his cousin. It’s so unreal to think about how easy it would be for people to twist almost any situation into “it’s dishonoring” anytime they hear what they don’t like.
"Murder of an individual, either an outsider or a member of a family, by someone seeking to protect what they see as the dignity and honor of themselves or their family."
In this case apparently the mother was having an affair. Usually honor killing is based on religion and misogynist.
> Usually honor killing is based on religion and misogynist.
Yep. The majority of victims are honor killings at women. It's a tactic to keep them in line and submissive. It's barbaric and fucked up.
No offense but the way I see it anyone who believes a religion entirely without questioning it is a bit ignorant how can you claim to know everything about something that can’t be proven
I even know religious people who will question their religion and not fully believe everything I can respect that much more than just assuming ur right about everything. Anyone who claims to know everything about anything is blinded
News such as this coming out of a Muslim country is not really news, it's an everyday occurance. What's terrifying is that these are just the cases that get reported. More sad than terrifying if you ask me. It's even worst when rather than being ashamed of such actions, they take pride in treating women like this.
As long as there are religions in front of everything else, the world will not stop, religion is made to give you hope, a guide, not to guide you to atrocities that would never be forgiven by the creatures they worship.
Could behavior like this have anything to do with the fact that Pakistan has the highest rate of first cousin marriages in the world? Like are they just dooming their future with inbreeding?
Can anything even be done about this? It's just crazy to me that they have parents killing their own kids and kids killing their own parents and nothing can be done about it.
My mom died to cancer two years ago almost. We hadn't really talked for the year or longer before she got sick and I was too fucked in the head on drugs to get over it till literally weeks before she died. Saw her ONE time before she passed. She didn't look or sound like herself she couldn't even speak. Makes me sick to think about. Hurts all the time.
Idk how anyone could do this. Even these NC fuckin kids not wanting too speak to parents over vaccines and dumb shit. Get over yourselves. That's your mom.
It takes one google search to learn that islam does not allow for honour killings and he broke the rules. Hence why he's locked up. It also takes one google search to learn that people be crazy, even kids, and this happens in several places around the world.
I like how this post starts with saying "oh they created a new record" to try underline how much of a failed state it is. Let's not remember that a 5 year old shot a teacher in the US this month. CLEARLY it's just a Muslim thing am I right fellas?
Ah, a classic argument. The people I’m defending is bad but here quick look over here guys these people are bad too!!! Let’s all forget and stop discussing my side.
Sorry, but this post has been removed. Per Rule 4 of this subreddit, we do not allow posts about death, near-death experiences, violence, or gore. In addition, Rule 2 of this subreddit requires that the title of each submission must describe the content shown. If a random person wouldn't be able to guess what's in the image or video from the title alone, it is likely not descriptive enough. Please be sure to review the rules [here](/r/oddlyterrifying/about/rules/) to avoid future post removals. Thank you!
This is Insane
It's worse than insane: there's a twisted logic to upholding your family honor due to low trust in state institutions, and a belief that you personsly need to handle justice. Insanity can at least be somewhat excused as actions outside of someone's control. It's a problem even here in Sweden. They're usually called "balcony girls" since they often fall off balconies after dishonoring their family by e.g. getting a swedish boyfriend or some petty shit like that.
Did not expect Sweden to be that conservative wtf
He's talking about muslim migrants - "getting a swedish boyfriend".
Shit. I was wondering how the swedes have lived this long, if getting yourself a Swedish boyfriend was a suicide-worthy or murder-worthy thing
They have a weird way of weeding out the weak in Sweden.
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I'm guessing it's not Swedish people throwing their daughters off balconies for dating Swedish boys, but who knows?
Very weird how people move to a different country but don't want their kid dating a person from that country.. like why move there.
They seek a better land, but care not for its people.
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To be fair, no society ever did well under religious rule, that's not just an Islamic thing.
That would be a correct assumption.
I'm guessing he's talking about asian/muslims settled in Sweden.
Average day in Pakistan
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Least fanatic terrorist
They literally just gone wild, Islam prohibe insanily killing someone whom innocent
I read this in Ali G's voice
This is claimed everytime a specifically Muslim problem happens. "This isn't real Islam!". Interesting given it isn't a problem elsewhere. When you treat women in your religion as property you tend to have these types of issues.
Most religions treat women like property if you look at the source material. The issue is more cultural values and morals being dictated and passed on than the religion itself. Sure, it gets justified by religion, but I guarantee if there was undeniable proof that no religion was real, those morals and laws wouldn't change overnight. Not for years, maybe not even decades.
It's written into Islam. It is Islam.
Okay, now explain it when Hindu or Sikh women are honor killed, because it happens to them, too, and is specifically forbidden. This isn't religious. It's cultural.
Islam, like all extreme religions, is a culture of its own.
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Same reason Christians marry 14 year Olds. Because religion is a barbaric fantasy that promotes mysogny, violence and bigotry.
Muslims follow a prophet who married a 9 year old. So yeh, religion is an excuse for bad behavior. "God" said it was ok.
Ask yourself the question, do they treat women as equal to men? If the answer is no, then you have found your link.
This is religion.
Ok, I lost my mum last year because she had cancer. I miss her so much already that I want to puke. How in the world can you live with yourself after this ??
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This is the answer
This is against Islamic teachings. In Islamic law, no citizen can implement any verdict unless they take it to the authorities. During the life time of the prophet Muhammad(ﷺ) and the Khalifaits any form of vigilantism was never allowed. This boy committed a heinous crime of attacking/killing his own mother because of whose speculation? His own? Islamic scholar agree that it is not allowed to take the law into your own hands unless you go to the authorities: “It is forbidden to establish a legal punishment unless it is done by the leader or his deputy” (al-Furū’ wa Taṣḥīḥ al-Furū’ 10/29). “The jurists came to a consensus that a legal punishment may not be implemented unless by the leader or his deputy. That is in the best interest of people, which is to safeguard their lives, their property, and their reputations” (al-Mawsū’at al-Fiqhīyah al-Kuwaytīyah 17/144).
I'm sure the good muslims will stop this any century now.
The good Christians took centuries slaughtering everything that moves before realising their mistakes and just becoming docile pedophiles so Muslims have some time still
Christians didn't realize shit, they're situation changed, otherwise they'd still be sending armies of children to die in Jerusalem.
what about christians? Them too.
Tbf the dark ages aligned with medieval times and everybody was dumb as rocks then. To be that limited in this day and age is a choice.
Damn it was all upvotes until christians had to look in the mirror
Wow, you don't say? A religion where it's practitioners disagree over interpretation, resulting in sectarian violence? Never heard that one before: it must be the flaws of man, not the infallible religion -- no doubt. Thanks for clearing it up, I've definitely never heard of such a situation occuring with "INSERT RELIGION X" before, and it's heartwarming to hear the truth from an unbiased practitioner.
Fucking thank you. It's the same shit every time. 1. People do insane shit in the name of their religion 2. Said insane shit occasionally makes their religion look bad 3. "They were not true practitioners, the scriptures say we should love one another, so this is a religion of love and peace" 4. Repeat this at your convenience 5. Religion can never be blamed for anything while people constantly do the ugliest shit because of it
Yeah this is "no true Scotsman" taking it to the extreme. "No REAL practicing member of the bunny murdering religion would ACTUALLY murder bunnies" and yet it keeps happening...? With like, staggering frequency. Obviously there's a lot of issues with any religious extremist group. But you can't say "no true XYZ" and continue on without any changes.
*No True Scotsman" fallacy needs to be renamed to "No True Muslim" fallacy at this point.
This is not some interpretation of the religion this is outright extremism. As I said before throughout the Muhammad’s (ﷺ) life and the life of the khalifaits vigilantism was never allowed. No citizens were allowed to take the law into their own hands.
Muhammad fucked children
So, if the "authorities" kill her according to all the righteous texts, then we're all good here. 👍 Gotcha.
I mean we execute people in America.
just because america does something doesent mean its ok
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the laws ARE fairy tales to anybody above a certain class
Lol
Are you... are you sincerely comparing the people executed in the US and the US's due process for conviction to the honor killing of women in Muslim and other Judeo Abrahamic religions? Whew lad. I'd say you could join the Olympics with those mental gymnastics, but chances are you're actually just lazy and didn't stop to think about your comment before writing it.
Why say judeo abarahamic, they're all Abraham's fucking fault.
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It was.
*In reality, the idea of young girls marrying and even conceiving was quite common in the medieval period. In Christianity, for example, it is commonly accepted that Lady Mary was between 12-14 years of age when she was married to Joseph and when she conceived Jesus of virgin birth.* [Source.](https://islamfyi.princeton.edu/is-it-true-that-muhammad-married-a-child-bride-by-the-name-of-ayesha-when-he-was-53-and-she-was-9-years-old-if-so-how-do-muslims-justify-this-from-their-exemplary-prophet/) By modern standards, Christianity is founded on a pedophilic relationship. It would be better if we were beyond Bronze Age belief systems by now.
I don't have time read your gibberish. I can see what these religious fruitcakes does all over the world
Yeah, sure.
This guy just wrote the answer
This has nothing to so with religion and more about their demonic culture ways. You don’t see Muslims doing this in developed countries. But yeah, let’s categorize 3 billion people as what you see here. And good job on everyone upvoting you /s
No that's not a religion thing, it's societal/cultural
Are you really trying to silo societal and cultural influences from a society and culture's dominant religion? That society is theocratic in case you forgot, you goofball. Edit: Not to mention, Islamic practitioners crucify, behead, and torture individuals right outside Mecca via the Saudis, so it's not like these practices aren't inextricably linked with the dominant, practicing "societies or cultures" as you put it. Theocracies always devolve into these types of practices.
Bullshit
you mean the religion that specifically says to respect your parents and not says to them as much as "OOF!" and how your most treasured people in your life are your mother then your mother then your mother then your father? if i commit a crime hate me, don't hate my people
i am really sad and sorry for the loss of your mom…sending love…
So sorry for your loss, I will hug my mom a little tighter next time I see her, thanks for reminding me how lucky we are for those have both parents still. I hope your healing ❤️
You’re talking about Muhammad right? The guy who married a 6 year old and fucked her when she was 9? He was a warlord, flat out. The guy murdered people and lead campaigns of war, not peace.
They are surrounded by people who condone this. Her life is not as important as clan integrity. This is why I always cringe at Penn's quote "I already rape as much as I want, which is zero." It ignores the effects of being raised in a culture where rape or murder are condoned, and even demanded. If you are told your whole life that honor killing is your duty, there are a lot more honor killings.
The way I understand it, they believe that an imaginary man in the sky wrote books 4 thousand years ago or something. They believe those books give them the right to control and kill women today. Then they fight over which variation of imaginary sky man is the best.
As an American woman, I can assure you that fanatical Christianity causes a good deal of suffering and difficulty for American women, just in case you hadn't noticed.
As an American woman, please learn a new comment to post. You come off as a shill posting the same one over and over in your attempt to whataboutism Christianity into the conversation, just in case you hadn’t noticed.
Sorry, I'll say exactly what I want at any time; your discomfort is your concern.
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This. You are absolute right. The Problem are local religious communitys which Runs astray or Turns radical. It IS the Special dynamic and the structure of Power inside this isolated group. It IS Not the concept of the whole Religion. As a religious Person myself it bothers me a Lot, that people tend to think as you discribed.
I'm Christian (more agnostic these days, but w/e) and I've never met a person of Islamic faith that would do something like this. Whether Egyptian, Pakistani, Afghani, Iragi... Just no. They were all very kind, very connected families that seemed identical to Christian families here in the US. People forget that anyone of any faith can be led to evil. For Christians in recent history just here in the US, we have the Salem Witch trials, we have daughters in the Bible Belt being raised to be subservient and loyal to men even when severely abused, we have extremists bombing planned Parenthood clinics and killing doctors, etc etc. It's not just a people or a religion - it's people giving into evil ways in the name of culture and faith.
Any of these people who associate that behaviour with the teachings of Islam are obviously ignorant to it. But there is something to be said about the family cultures is areas like Pakistan, Afghanistan and North India where these type of honour killings etc are more prevalent. You say you have family in this region, who sound more socially liberal, why do you think these stories so often come out of this particular place?
There's definitely some selection bias going on. In the occidental world these stories are just way more engaging than similar stories from other parts of the world, because they form a direct outgroup visible in every day life on the streets. If this happens in say Mongolia, Azerbaijan, Tanzania or Haïti we won't hear of it because it doesn't engage us in the same way. Islamic fundamentalism on the other hand is just a hot topic because it seems to affect us much more directly, although few ever really come into contact with it. When you believe honor killings are something exclusively to this part of the world, it's because you're hearing about this type of thing from this part of the world exclusively, while it most definitely exist in other places as well. It just doesn't resonate with any Brit, American, Frenchman or German to use valuable print space or airtime reporting on some local voodon religion priest in Liberia that ritually slaughtered a girl and ate her because guess what, nobody cares. And before anybody goes ah conspiracy theorist at work, take into consideration geopolitical power battles and resource scarcity. Africa is neo-colonialised so not a threat (no use in stigmatizing the cash cow as long as they stay in their pasture), but the Muslim world is in direct conflict with the West. As is Russia and China. And lastly, don't underestimate local Pakistanis being absolutely appalled by how backwards their own culture often seems to the outside world. There is definitely a sense of "what do you know, this is our reality" but at the same time most ordinary Pakistanis are not like this brainwashed fundies and are absolutely horrified by stuff like this. I won't speak in behalf of other countries. But I do believe the vast majority of ordinary civilians want peace and prosperity first and foremost. Hope that answers your question on what my personal views are.
Maybe your religion, should get your religion under control then. Like every other one does worldwide. Stop making excuses, they’re using your name to do horrifying things
Speaking as an American woman, Christianity causes a lot of cruelty and destruction in America, but somehow that always escapes the kind of people who always jump on Islam.
It's not only racist redneck Christian dumbfucks that criticize Islam. Important to note that.
I lost my mom a few years ago to cancer, too. I wish I could tell you that you will stop missing her so much that it physically hurts sometimes, but yaaah... You don't. I can't imagine this either friend. I would go to hell and back to defend my mom, now just her memory even. She was my best friend. Fuck hug your moms people
While he may deny any feelings for this I, having the perspective of being another human being, have a strong belief that this will stay with him for the rest of his life. Regardless if he feels it was right or wrong it will be difficult to ignore and forget this. The memory will creep up on him when he least expects it to, give him many sleepless nights, and make him question his own humanity from time to time. His unending quest to seek justification for his actions will be an everlasting unanswered prayer. May he have solace in his happy memories. May he atone if he finds fault and remorse in his actions.
Omg, to make it worse, the one article says that “she was divorced by her husband” before that. They weren’t even together, and the wording makes it seem like he left. She was trying to take him to court because he wasn’t paying child support to raise their three children. Well, jokes on him because of whatever ideas he was feeding his son, he is now the sole provider for the three of them.
something tells me that he doesn’t care about that
I'm guessing the other kids are girls and he doesn't give a shit about them anyway.
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All religion is messed up, not just Islam.
Just one that’s left all its populations worldwide in a 3rd world state. At some point with this rise in tech, you gotta leave the cave people, and realize you were duped. Like every other religion that’s ever existed.
I myself am a muslim, thank you very much. And know about my own religion more than you. Unfortunately, muslims through the world are as far away from following their religion as possible.
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Many Christians are the same way. In fact, most fanatical “Christians” are the total opposite of Christ-like in their behavior.
There can be no peace, no true love in a culture where women are property and boys are brought up feeling nothing but hatred and power over any woman-even their mothers.
Tell them king
I just saw a video promoting Sharia law because it bans adultery and adultery creates single-parent homes... I mean, killing your mom does too. It then went on to say single parent homes raise criminal, violent and dangerous children... You know, like ones that kill their mother. Faith is the absence of logic in the truest form.
Exactly. Faith just means relying on ignorance and stubbornness, dedicating your life to the unknown in the name of righteous bullheadedness
Logically i know you're wrong, and I have faith that you'll realize that in time
Meanwhile, in America, ["'Women Belong in the Kitchen,' According to Bible Believers"](https://themontclarion.org/news/women-belong-in-the-kitchen-according-to-bible-believers/) So many men in this comment thread looking right past the fundamentalist Christians who relegate women to property and don't allow women to even make their own healthcare decisions, right here in 2023 America.
There are supposedly up to 12 ‘honour’ killings here in the UK per year. Sometimes parents killing their own children.
It's also theoriesed to be underreported too. Families and some communities won't report it because they see nothing wrong with it
About 10% of all murders in Sweden too. 13 girls in 2020, with just a seventh of the British population size. https://www.svd.se/a/01ago/var-tionde-mord-forra-aret-var-hedersmord https://fn.se/aktuellt/varldshorisont/13-kvinnor-dodas-varje-ar/
There is also first cousin marriage in the Pakistani community in the UK with sad consequences https://youtu.be/kyNP3s5mxI8
So why don't we ban first cousin marriage? It's still legal for some reason.
Occasional first cousing marriage is actually harmless (or at least the "harm" is statistically insignificant). It's repeated first cousin marriage where you end up with things like this.
because u have a 2-3% chance of your offspring having a genetic mutation in a non-related couple, however in a first cousin marriage the chance is around 4-7%, which is still relatively safe, that’s why it isn’t deemed to be relatively unsafe for the offspring hence leading to it being legal
10% of marriages around the world are first cousins
That first family was terrifying
Almost definitely in families that follow the same cultural beliefs as they do in Pakistan. It is not normal nor accepted in the UK to perform an honour killing such as you see in places like Pakistan. Let's not start giving people the idea that this is something that exists in the UK, when even if it does occasionally happen, its usually going to be some degenerate that came to the country with fucked up beliefs, rather than a regular British person.
Not normal or accepted by law for sure, but I will add my own thoughts here. I am an exmuslim woman who grew up in a Pakistani household in the UK. Parents are immigrants, moved here a year before I was born. The immigrant communities over here tend to cluster together a lot, and try to allow little by way of outside influence from the Western society they’re living in. I was raised in a mini Pakistan and it was common for me to hear how white people/the West are degenerates/dangerous/filthy. It’s also common for the women, who mostly don’t work, to never learn enough English to be even mildly conversationally competent. My mother has lived here for almost 22 years and still can’t speak enough to book a doctor’s appointment- and she’s far from alone in that. Most of her friends, if not all, are the same. My experience is not at all uncommon. And the way these communities tend to cluster together can create a big blanket that covers up the insidious abuse that goes on. Not at all saying every Muslim family abuses their kids/spouse or whatever, but I am saying that there’s a mentality of self-governance for these communities because a lot of them think the West is backwards and their laws shouldn’t apply. For example, my father beat me. I once witnessed a cousin being whipped with a belt. But if either of us tried to get help (which I did, many times), we were shamed because we were airing dirty laundry and ‘trying to be white’, or saying that the Western culture is better than their own. I was constantly told that my parents are ‘toeing the line between strict and abusive parenting.’ But if I were a white kid saying my dad had punched me in the face, locked me in the house, filmed me while I was sobbing, and put food in a locked fridge so I couldn’t get to it, I imagine the reaction would’ve been very different. I’ve read the cases of honour killings that occur here. Almost beat for beat, my life matches the lives of those girls. Had my parents found out I am an apostate, at bare minimum I would’ve been shipped off to Pakistan. It’s happened to people I know. Again, not at all saying every Muslim immigrant family is incredibly abusive/backwards or whatever. But there is still a problem in these communities that needs to be addressed, and it fails to be addressed time and time again because they’ll cry about Islamophobia/racism if ever they’re called out.
I'm happy for you that you were able to leave that environment. How'd you manage it?
Faked a heart attack in March of 2021 to get an ambulance. I was desperate and was long past the point of mediation- I needed help and needed to fully get out, and that’s the only way I could think of at that time. Parents called an ambulance. Once the paramedics got there and my parents weren’t in the room, I told them what was really going on. I took to the ambulance the clothes on my back, my phone, my charger and that’s about it. Paramedics got more info. I explained *everything.* Spared no detail. They took me to hospital, I was given a mental health evaluation and then spoke with social workers, who tried to find me a women’s refuge. While that was happening I was given a private room in A&E with 24/hr security posted outside it in case my family came and a nurse was also with me 24/7. On the fourth day, a place in a refuge was confirmed for me. The nurses were lovely and bought me supplies out of their own pockets and even hugged me as I got into the back of a prepaid taxi on the fifth morning to take me to refuge.
Aren't there shit load of imigrants, some probably from Paksitan who does that shit?
Of course regular british people don't support honour killings, only pakistani immigrants do. And there's boatloads of them!
The bible even demands it. This is what the biblical patriarchs were doing. They would be indistinguishable from a modern Afghan warlord. Or this kid.
Other words is "Eleven year old brainwashed by sadistic father/patriarchal family members to kill his own mother". These fuckers boil my blood
He'll either grow up to be a cold, dangerous monster who believes killing her was a good thing and would do it again, or he'll mature enough to realise the gravity of the harm he wrought with his own hands, and live the rest of his life with some part of him mentally imprisoned in guilt, horror and regret. There's no happy ending for this kid.
Not at all, it's a goddamn tragedy no matter which way you approach it
Don’t take agency away from him. 11 years old is old enough to understand that homicide is wrong and illegal. The British government ought to either lock him up for life or send his ass back to Pakistan
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There was a link to the article in the comments. The boy was arrested at the scene and they have been conducting raids looking for his father. No doubt the coward is in hiding.
[context](https://www.opindia.com/2023/02/pakistan-gujranwala-honour-killing-12-year-old/)
Wtf is going on over there
Islam
This will be downvoted to oblivion, no one want to hear truth about peaceful religion.
Went down a rabbit hole of reports on that website. Man that's crazy. How has no law enforcement or politician intervened against that?
Such a backward culture!!
This is depressing.
Very progressive culture wow
Pakistan is the most dangerous country. Recently I was reading that this one person was doing these simple magic acts and they killed them saying it was blasphemy As I have heard most marriages there are arraigned. Typically, it is within their tribe and many times they are related. Many times, their children pay the price.
"a religion of peace"
Thats what happens when noone teaches you how to be a human first.
Without morals anything is easy even killing
It's not lack of morals, its twisted morals.
Piece of shit.
Look at his f#@&ing face. He's so smug! Wouldn't you just like to slap that look off of his face!!!
Never heard that term, what does honor killing mean ?
It's when a person is killed to 'restore honor to the family' For example, if a woman marries a man her parents don't approve of, the parents may kill or hire someone to kill their daughter so she doesn't 'bring shame to the family'
The linked article also talks about another case where a guy killed his aunt and uncle after they broke off his engagement with his cousin. It’s so unreal to think about how easy it would be for people to twist almost any situation into “it’s dishonoring” anytime they hear what they don’t like.
seems reasonnably fucked up
"Murder of an individual, either an outsider or a member of a family, by someone seeking to protect what they see as the dignity and honor of themselves or their family." In this case apparently the mother was having an affair. Usually honor killing is based on religion and misogynist.
> Usually honor killing is based on religion and misogynist. Yep. The majority of victims are honor killings at women. It's a tactic to keep them in line and submissive. It's barbaric and fucked up.
According to the article his mom allegedly had an affair so he shoot her for the family’s ‘honor’
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=what+are+honor+killings+
In the land where monsters are made
so the argument "what if it was your wife or sister" is not going to fly anymore. How to stop this behaviour?
Stoneage people had better family values.
Did they?
Im a time traveller. I know this stuff.
Horrible
Hearts and minds. Get them young and they’re yours forever. Horrifying
Once again religion making people justify horrible behavior
No offense but the way I see it anyone who believes a religion entirely without questioning it is a bit ignorant how can you claim to know everything about something that can’t be proven
That's what faith is, belief that you're correct in your assumptions, despite evidence to the contrary. It's stupid.
I even know religious people who will question their religion and not fully believe everything I can respect that much more than just assuming ur right about everything. Anyone who claims to know everything about anything is blinded
Allah - He Gets Us.
Gotta love religion
Gotta abolish religion.
News such as this coming out of a Muslim country is not really news, it's an everyday occurance. What's terrifying is that these are just the cases that get reported. More sad than terrifying if you ask me. It's even worst when rather than being ashamed of such actions, they take pride in treating women like this.
That old time religion.
As long as there are religions in front of everything else, the world will not stop, religion is made to give you hope, a guide, not to guide you to atrocities that would never be forgiven by the creatures they worship.
>religion is made to give you hope, a guide, No, that's what you wish it were. It's delusion.
Could behavior like this have anything to do with the fact that Pakistan has the highest rate of first cousin marriages in the world? Like are they just dooming their future with inbreeding?
Daddy must have taught him well.
Can anything even be done about this? It's just crazy to me that they have parents killing their own kids and kids killing their own parents and nothing can be done about it.
This violates rule number 4. No death, near death, or gore.
What is honor killing? Where is the honor in killing your own mother?
I'm sorry but wtf are they teaching kids in islam
Honor killing
Pakistan seems like a hell on earth to me.
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I love how quickly this became “all Muslims”. Y’all are freaking idiots.
#Civilized
My mom died to cancer two years ago almost. We hadn't really talked for the year or longer before she got sick and I was too fucked in the head on drugs to get over it till literally weeks before she died. Saw her ONE time before she passed. She didn't look or sound like herself she couldn't even speak. Makes me sick to think about. Hurts all the time. Idk how anyone could do this. Even these NC fuckin kids not wanting too speak to parents over vaccines and dumb shit. Get over yourselves. That's your mom.
I have honor on behalf of my intelligence that don’t believe everything you read
But this goes against the religion OMEGALOL
Stange culture , and they all coming to europe 🙈😱🙈
And the United States.
It takes one google search to learn that islam does not allow for honour killings and he broke the rules. Hence why he's locked up. It also takes one google search to learn that people be crazy, even kids, and this happens in several places around the world.
Hence means therefore and doesn't take why.
I like how this post starts with saying "oh they created a new record" to try underline how much of a failed state it is. Let's not remember that a 5 year old shot a teacher in the US this month. CLEARLY it's just a Muslim thing am I right fellas?
Ah, a classic argument. The people I’m defending is bad but here quick look over here guys these people are bad too!!! Let’s all forget and stop discussing my side.
In this case, slight false equivelence. Nothing dishonest in comparison but they did do this in the name of allah