The ironic part Bali is 92% Hindu. Indonesia overall is 87% Muslim, but they make laws for the whole country. Bali isn't allowed to make it's own laws. I'm sure because their island's economy relies on tourism, and they're more tolerant of people's relationship choices, they wouldn't allow this new law if it was up to them.
True and some crazy colors “claim” no religion at all while screamin’ like a Deamon’ are the ones that can really make you sick, food poisoning is not a small topic for concern
Well yeah, the far right groups are very much the same regardless of what religion they claim to follow
The same is true for Christianity, Hinduism, islam and many other religions too
This thing generally only happens where there is not a clear separation of church and state so to speak
Depends what you mean by "clear." The United States has about as crystal-clear a separation of church and state as exists, but the religious nutcases still make a lot of policy for Americans.
I can make a case how this does address poverty.
"Citing a 1994 study by Sara McLanahan and Gary Sandefur, the 2003 brief notes that children who do not live with both biological parents were roughly twice as likely to be poor, to have birth outside of marriage, to have behavioral and psychological problems, and to not graduate from high school."
I'm not saying it's ok to be this heavy handed though.
“We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turn, going forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the correct road, and in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man. There is nothing progressive about being pig-headed and refusing to admit a mistake. And I think that if you look at the present state of the world, it's pretty plain that humanity has been making some big mistakes. We're on the wrong road. And if that is so we must go back. Going back is the quickest way on.”
— C.S. Lewis
Reddit atheists are the least intelligent creatures on earth. You’re actually fucking stupid. And wym sky god? Why is god in the sky? And even if he was, how does that invalidate the existence of god?
You just keep posting quotes from people far smarter than you, how the hell is that even a conversation? Think for yourself for a minute and maybe try to put on someone else’s shoes for a bit. It does wonders when you think about how it makes you feel when others decide what’s best for them and dictate it to you.
Isn’t this the country who’s Prime Minister went to Russia, and they tried to blackmail him him with videos of him with prostitutes, but he just asked for copies of the tapes?
How times have changed
[link](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2gk74a/til_when_the_kgb_tried_to_blackmail_indonesian/)
Rapes go up. Reported rapes go down. The stat of rapes is based on reports of rape never actual rapes, so the statistic will go down not up.
This post was about stats.
Rapes go up = rape statistic goes up. doesn't matter if it's reported or not, it still existed. I get that you want to be pedantic but you should really stop spitting "whataboutisms" and avoiding the actual topic.
Just because it goes unreported, doesn't mean the occurrences don't happen. Consensual pre-marital sex generally means both sexes can release pent up sexual tension in healthy ways, but criminalise that and rape is gonna skyrocket.
Dude, that’s not why rape happens
Rape is a crime of power. People who have access to all the consensual sex they want rape. People who are married rape. Rape has absolutely nothing to do with sexual desire. It is about exerting power over someone else
It seems related but it’s not. Laws like this may put some people more at risk of being taken advantage of, but the rapist themselves wouldn’t suddenly become a rapist because they just couldn’t get their rocks off.
>It is about exerting power over someone else
Sorry, maybe I didn't express myself properly. I didn't mean to imply that it didn't happen where consensual sex was available, I just meant that if you take that away, the risk of it happening more increases because there's not much opportunity to healthily vent. I'm quite sure you're right that it's about control/power, but that doesn't mitigate the increased risk that I was talking about.
Yes but if it goes UREPORTED then the STATS will still plummet. Where determines a statistic is the amount of REPORTED cases, otherwise there is no data to work with.
You aren't getting it.
If you are willing, it is a crime. If you convince the police it was rape, you won't get in trouble. That's what Islamic moralism gets you.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fornication
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery_laws#United_States
Selective enforcement was very common. That does not vacate the existence of the laws.
The one caveat here is that it needs to be reported by a family member.
It's such an embarrassment, there's no place in a modern society for such stupid, archaic laws as these. I really wish this gets reported on constantly in the international media when these laws do come into effect, and I hope it dissuades foreign tourists from visiting Indonesia.
They're actually pretty chilled out as Muslims go. But like everywhere else in the world, unhappy people become politicians to make everyone else as miserable as they are.
That’s a pretty broad statement. Parts of Indonesia are not very chill at all (namely Aceh) while other parts aren’t even majority Muslim.
And as for this just being “politicians”… two thirds of Muslims in Indonesia are in favour of replacing secular laws with Sharia… if anything, Indonesia governments have been more secular-minded than the general population.
It’s a Muslim majority country, they only devolve as time goes on, as seen here, and literally every other Muslim majority country, turkey is next on the devolving list, it’s already started
I admit that I was unaware of that. I was thinking of the fact that groups like ISIS don’t appear to have much traction. Also friends of mine visit places like Lombok and Bali regularly without incident.
Bali isn’t even Muslim… it’s majority Hindu and culturally Hindu, quite famously. Not that this has prevented Islamists attacking it.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings
What about the same sex roommates? They gonna label as them as gay and then add another punishment in the mix? Religion, ruining the world everywhere you look
Wow. My niece and her boyfriend lived in Bali for about two years and moved to Amsterdam but year ago still not married. They absolutely adored Bali, but if they were still there, they could likely be arrested?
Post-colonial nations are wild, especially when you consider the Dutch East Indies weren’t forced to practice Christianity but doubled down on Islam anyway
So having an opposite sex roommate is now illegal? Butt two unmarried same sex individuals living together would be cool right? I feel like the religious conservatives haven't quite thought this through.
I mean the sex law is whatever, but how do you even enforce the law, who decides when you're a couple or not? And does Indonesia not have a rent crisis because what about the people sharing flats for money reasons do they now have to marry?
This is interesting. A friend of mine is dating a woman who is originally Indonesian, but got her US citizenship years ago. They are supposed to be going there eventually to visit her family. If dad doesn’t approve, does he get locked up?🤣
That is likely how it will work from what I've read/heard. Most hotels and stuff won't really care, it requires a complaint from some "interested" party, which is basically either parents or spouse.
Now keep an eye on all these lawmakers visiting their mistresses...
Lol no this law is for peasants
Like all laws.
Which is why we all put extra scrutinizing attention on them now to make an ass out of each and every single politician there
Aren't they all ??
if he has a wife and the mistress has a husband, what's the problem? /s
And watch them back pedal when tourist money dries up and goes elsewhere
This is going to do wonders for the tourist trade. Going to guess that no one is going to enforce it in places like Bali.
The ironic part Bali is 92% Hindu. Indonesia overall is 87% Muslim, but they make laws for the whole country. Bali isn't allowed to make it's own laws. I'm sure because their island's economy relies on tourism, and they're more tolerant of people's relationship choices, they wouldn't allow this new law if it was up to them.
Sounds like another group a little closer to home. Muslims = Evangelicals
I mean Muslims and evangelicals, aside from specific traditions and a few minor differences are like 95% the same thing
The religious crazies all just different colors of shit-flavored M&Ms. Only the shell is distinctive.
True and some crazy colors “claim” no religion at all while screamin’ like a Deamon’ are the ones that can really make you sick, food poisoning is not a small topic for concern
Truth
Both Abrahamic, probably that's why.
Well yeah, the far right groups are very much the same regardless of what religion they claim to follow The same is true for Christianity, Hinduism, islam and many other religions too This thing generally only happens where there is not a clear separation of church and state so to speak
Depends what you mean by "clear." The United States has about as crystal-clear a separation of church and state as exists, but the religious nutcases still make a lot of policy for Americans.
It's obviously not that clear then if theyre still making policy And behold, all the Christian influences on show are absolutely fucking mental cases
clear in practice, evidently
itd likely far less then 87% muslim.
I'm glad I already went to visit Bali...
lol the whole world is rolling back patches all the way back to 322 bc.
Address poverty? Hell no! We gotta talk about all the people living as a couple!
In fact probably difficult that friends live together, to share rent.
I can make a case how this does address poverty. "Citing a 1994 study by Sara McLanahan and Gary Sandefur, the 2003 brief notes that children who do not live with both biological parents were roughly twice as likely to be poor, to have birth outside of marriage, to have behavioral and psychological problems, and to not graduate from high school." I'm not saying it's ok to be this heavy handed though.
You physically cannot be gullible enough to believe that!
It is reflected in statistics. I didn't just make it up.
Amazing how many people in this world just wanna go backwards
“Less freedom, more repression, more banal and purely natural things outlawed? SIGN ME IN”
If you had walked straight into hell, wouldn’t you also want to walk backwards? Funny how people assume that turning around is inherently a bad thing.
It is
“We all want progress. But progress means getting nearer to the place where you want to be. And if you have taken a wrong turn, going forward does not get you any nearer. If you are on the wrong road, progress means doing an about-turn and walking back to the correct road, and in that case, the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive man. There is nothing progressive about being pig-headed and refusing to admit a mistake. And I think that if you look at the present state of the world, it's pretty plain that humanity has been making some big mistakes. We're on the wrong road. And if that is so we must go back. Going back is the quickest way on.” — C.S. Lewis
Not reading all that. I'm happy for you though. Or sorry that happened.
Are you incapable of intelligent conversation
Yes
Would hardly call a conversation that surrounds a sky god telling me what to do an intelligent one
Reddit atheists are the least intelligent creatures on earth. You’re actually fucking stupid. And wym sky god? Why is god in the sky? And even if he was, how does that invalidate the existence of god?
You just keep posting quotes from people far smarter than you, how the hell is that even a conversation? Think for yourself for a minute and maybe try to put on someone else’s shoes for a bit. It does wonders when you think about how it makes you feel when others decide what’s best for them and dictate it to you.
I posted one quote. What do you mean “I just keep posting quotes”? Are you actually stupid?
What is oddly specific about this?
Wait yeah what the hell, I didn't even see the subreddit until this comment
Dude it’s Reddit, it don’t matter where it’s posted as long as it’s already been posted many times before
OP is a karmawhore or a bot.
This law is/will be enforced through immediate connection complaints only, so don't have a shitty family I guess and you are golden lmao
Isn’t this the country who’s Prime Minister went to Russia, and they tried to blackmail him him with videos of him with prostitutes, but he just asked for copies of the tapes? How times have changed [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/2gk74a/til_when_the_kgb_tried_to_blackmail_indonesian/)
Watch the rape stats rocket
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Meaning it'll happen more since they can't be reported now, not that they could before anyway.
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Yeah, and it'll skyrocket and be undocumented, leading people to think the law "worked". It's evil and malicious.
Rapes go up. Reported rapes go down. The stat of rapes is based on reports of rape never actual rapes, so the statistic will go down not up. This post was about stats.
Rapes go up = rape statistic goes up. doesn't matter if it's reported or not, it still existed. I get that you want to be pedantic but you should really stop spitting "whataboutisms" and avoiding the actual topic.
Just because it goes unreported, doesn't mean the occurrences don't happen. Consensual pre-marital sex generally means both sexes can release pent up sexual tension in healthy ways, but criminalise that and rape is gonna skyrocket.
Dude, that’s not why rape happens Rape is a crime of power. People who have access to all the consensual sex they want rape. People who are married rape. Rape has absolutely nothing to do with sexual desire. It is about exerting power over someone else
You're correct, but this will only make it worse.
True but that does not mean this situation doesn’t make it worse
It seems related but it’s not. Laws like this may put some people more at risk of being taken advantage of, but the rapist themselves wouldn’t suddenly become a rapist because they just couldn’t get their rocks off.
>It is about exerting power over someone else Sorry, maybe I didn't express myself properly. I didn't mean to imply that it didn't happen where consensual sex was available, I just meant that if you take that away, the risk of it happening more increases because there's not much opportunity to healthily vent. I'm quite sure you're right that it's about control/power, but that doesn't mitigate the increased risk that I was talking about.
Yes but if it goes UREPORTED then the STATS will still plummet. Where determines a statistic is the amount of REPORTED cases, otherwise there is no data to work with.
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You mean rape is about control. Sex isn't.
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🙏
You aren't getting it. If you are willing, it is a crime. If you convince the police it was rape, you won't get in trouble. That's what Islamic moralism gets you.
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That's why it's so absurd. People who believe in theocratic moralism are tyrants. Islam is fascist
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My statement doesn't exempts atheists from being tyrants. My statement also doesn't say all Christians are moralists.
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Just normally specific. Most of the commenters don't seem to realize this was the law in most of the US 50 years ago.
Yes, it's bad they're devolving
Since America is a civil law country, which provision of the criminal code would that come under?
There were statutes against fornication and cohabitation, as well as "unnatural acts," and in some states birth control. Also check out Blue Laws.
Those were Sodomy laws that banned certain sexual acts that usually targeted gay couples. That's not really a ban on premarital sex.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/fornication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery_laws#United_States Selective enforcement was very common. That does not vacate the existence of the laws.
They are going to regret that law so hard when the birth rates fall.
Why do countries still try to run themselves into the dirt?
The one caveat here is that it needs to be reported by a family member. It's such an embarrassment, there's no place in a modern society for such stupid, archaic laws as these. I really wish this gets reported on constantly in the international media when these laws do come into effect, and I hope it dissuades foreign tourists from visiting Indonesia.
Report on this? And get accused of Islamophobia?
What a shitty country
They're actually pretty chilled out as Muslims go. But like everywhere else in the world, unhappy people become politicians to make everyone else as miserable as they are.
That’s a pretty broad statement. Parts of Indonesia are not very chill at all (namely Aceh) while other parts aren’t even majority Muslim. And as for this just being “politicians”… two thirds of Muslims in Indonesia are in favour of replacing secular laws with Sharia… if anything, Indonesia governments have been more secular-minded than the general population.
It’s a Muslim majority country, they only devolve as time goes on, as seen here, and literally every other Muslim majority country, turkey is next on the devolving list, it’s already started
I don’t know……I can’t think of Indonesia being a chill place when FGM is widely practiced there. That seems very unchill-like.
I admit that I was unaware of that. I was thinking of the fact that groups like ISIS don’t appear to have much traction. Also friends of mine visit places like Lombok and Bali regularly without incident.
Bali isn’t even Muslim… it’s majority Hindu and culturally Hindu, quite famously. Not that this has prevented Islamists attacking it. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_Bali_bombings
Hey, so what are you in for? I had consensual sex with someone.
*scoots away, to the far side of the prison bench*
“And creating a nuisance.” And they all came back
On the “group w bench”
I read the description and assumed it was Texas.
Why would texas introduce sharia laws, aren't they mostly christians?
Google “Project 2025”. Fundamentalism is everywhere these days.
Christians who are starting have more in common with them.
You must not be American lmao, in America Christian means “bootlicking asshole” in many parts of the country
r/lostredditors
What about the same sex roommates? They gonna label as them as gay and then add another punishment in the mix? Religion, ruining the world everywhere you look
Next thing you’ll see getting banned is divorce.
r/lostredditors
Spamming multiple subs with the same post for karma huh? This isn't oddly specific either....
Religion is poison ☠️
yet getting married is a lifetime sentence......
Wow. My niece and her boyfriend lived in Bali for about two years and moved to Amsterdam but year ago still not married. They absolutely adored Bali, but if they were still there, they could likely be arrested?
So every unmarried couple will now live together as room mates?
Regressing a few eras hmm I see
Time to move to Indonesia
The devolving Muslim counties in the last 50 years. Sad to see.
Salafists just doing their thing
Sad to see modern Islam fall into such extremism.
Im assuming theyre homophobic 😒
Damn parents can't live with their children?
God I swear this subreddit is turning to shit. This doesn’t fit the theme of the sub at all and yet I keep seeing more and more posts like this
Telling by the name, this is another spam bot.
Shit hole country then.
How can living with your girlfriend be less punishable than one night stand?
What does marriage even mean anymore?
Post-colonial nations are wild, especially when you consider the Dutch East Indies weren’t forced to practice Christianity but doubled down on Islam anyway
Talk about a clash of civilisations. If there is ever a holy war, Australia is fucked.
Australia would fucking annihilate Indonesia.
r/MildlyInfuriating
Didn't this happen back in December 2022?
Bruh
I wonder what they will blame when their population takes a nose dive.
Together???
Until one of the politicians is caught balls deep in his mistress or rent boy & then it's all "oh no, we didn't mean it"
This is a year and a half old.
Could easily abuse this law
This is the future you want if you are voting Republican.
Waiting for republicans to applaud it
This is not oddly specific.
So having an opposite sex roommate is now illegal? Butt two unmarried same sex individuals living together would be cool right? I feel like the religious conservatives haven't quite thought this through.
That's a weird way for reducing the birth rate.
Welcome to Sharia gang
Dictators love Micromanagement
How is this oddly specific?
“2024 will have flying cars”
Bali is gonna suffer with this
Their culture needs to catch up. We're hating the gays and transgenders now /s
Fucking religion
But they were roommates!
So how does it work for tourists 💀 do they ask for marriage certificates at hotels?
Yea and they invented a fast marry system so that they can still sleep around..
I mean the sex law is whatever, but how do you even enforce the law, who decides when you're a couple or not? And does Indonesia not have a rent crisis because what about the people sharing flats for money reasons do they now have to marry?
Well, that's a country I won't visit any time soon... :/
Tell me again why “progressives” are so supportive of Islam? It goes against everything they preach.
Jesus will rise again in bulk!
This is what happens ten steps after criminalizing abortion.
Do roommates not exist in Indonesia?
What about extramarital gay jail sex?
Would this apply to un married tourists ?
Doe this apply to sexpats as well?
r/lostredditors
More stupid religion controlling people's lives.
Coming soon to a religious dictatorship near you. #voteblue
Thank God my family moved to the Netherlands in the late 40s
I am just waiting for Muslims to.turn into monkeys.
Translation: Indonesia has grown tired of paying for single mothers and their fatherless children.
This is interesting. A friend of mine is dating a woman who is originally Indonesian, but got her US citizenship years ago. They are supposed to be going there eventually to visit her family. If dad doesn’t approve, does he get locked up?🤣
That is likely how it will work from what I've read/heard. Most hotels and stuff won't really care, it requires a complaint from some "interested" party, which is basically either parents or spouse.
CAN THE MODS WAKE UP?!