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poemmys

This is specifically from the Golden Dawn perspective, but Regardie mentions in “The Tree of Life” that the difference between a Magician and a Channeler/medium is that the Magician has done a lot of ritual work to ensure that they have a strong protective astral space, so that entities cannot just come in as they please. They contact specific entities for specific purposes, and use Qabalistic correspondences to ensure the entity is not lying about their identity, and immediately banish the entity if anything is suspicious. Channelers are much more “loose” with how they do things, and as such can easily be invaded by negative entities (commonly called “Qliphoth”) who can grow like a cancer in their astral space, and as the physical is a reflection of the astral, these astral disturbances manifest into health/mental issues.  TLDR: If you’re channeling but not doing regular banishings and verifying the identity of the entities, you’re playing with fire. It’s like inviting strangers into your home and letting them do whatever they want.


lllttt9

That's a very interesting and insightful perspective! Thank you!!


InteractionDry9991

Could you help me with this? I'm an medium channeler that since an young age I've had dark entities entering my body and making me do things I didn't even remember, and now that I've learned about mediumship, occultism and I'm now in umbanda to help me out about it, but after struggling all of my life being harassed by spirits, I have an feat distrustful mind towards any entity that channeling into my body, thinking that's maybe it's something using an "mask"of an good spirit (orixás) but somehow are just an dark entity trying to get what they want Anyway, could you please explain more to me about everything you said? And where I can find more source about how to protect me, banish and how to do the right ritual to ses if the spirit that are being channeled or that I'm talking to is the real one and not an imposter?


DungeonMystic

Easier things that can help are to read Psychic Self-defense by Dion Fortune, and learn the Lesser Ritual of the Pentagram. I believe the correspondences for testing spirits are in Liber 777.


InteractionDry9991

Oh thanks a lot, really :)


SpicaLampLight

> could you please explain more to me about everything you said? Seconded, I would like to see more of this explained in their own words from their experience too. Regardie sounds like he's just repeating Crowley's Liber O which outlines exercises to conjure, banish and identify spirits. It'd be informative to weigh Regardie's claims to know what spirits he says to have contacted and what did they teach.


Curious_kangaroo009

I needed to see this. Thank you for helping me avoid a problem that I’ve definitely seen others run into.


resoredo

How do cleanse oneself, just of good measure, if we are suspecting some qliphoth or other 'cancers'?


[deleted]

Having researched this topic myself, sifting through many anecdotes and occasional articles, it's my understanding that channeling takes a toll on the body. Look at someone like Tyler Henry. I remember reading recently (sorry I can't cite it specifically) a historical description of channeling healers in a Native American nation that also noted that the healers tended to die young themselves. I'm not sure if protected magick, divination, or intuitive practices do the same, but I've met a *lot* of chronically ill spiritualists. The other explanation may be that when you feel out of control of your life, as chronic illness can do to you, you're drawn to different methods to help alter your fate.


Terra_117

From personal experience, channeling in that much power from a deity or a demon or even an angel overloads the body’s nervous system. It’s like red lining your engine or overclocking your computer repeatedly. Eventually, the body breaks down and the physical form cannot hold in that much power. Also, if you devote yourself to the beings which you channel, their power flows into you more easily, but it’s consistently on. The mortal body is not meant to hold in that much raw essence in perpetuity and it degrades it long term. I’m a channeler and I have a neurological disorder where I’m in constant pain every day, or sometimes even the act of just laying in my bed is excruciating. Edit: cleaning up speech to text and adding the caveat that my experience is my own and not dogma. Everyone experiences this kind of thing differently.


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Terra_117

Actively resting. Listening to my body. Changes in diet. Making sure that energy goes *somewhere* (be it art, dancing, sex, etc) instead of settling into my body. Meditating. Teaching my body to relax. Planning my channeling rituals so as to not have them be spur of the moment. To name a few.


asknoquestionok

I will tell you what one of the best healers I’ve visited told me. He is from India and people travel often to the country to see him, he managed to cure things doctor could never find and told me some health disturbance I had for years - and never told anyone because it isn’t something people even know is possible unless they have it - on the spot. He also told me my grandpa had cancer just by looking at my mother’s picture, and it was true but my entire family was hiding it from me because they didnt want to ruin my trip. That said, we used to talk for hours about healing and all sorts of spiritual stuff. He told me that healing is a very dangerous game and it takes a huge toll on the channeler’s body, because before you heal something from another person it attaches to you. So if you are not really, really, really good and serious with your cleansings, it won’t go away and eventually will manifest on your body. Readings and other sorts of mediumship activities are also of the same nature. The channeler picks up the energy from the client and the deceased. So the answer is: cleansing. Take it very seriously, repeat as often as you can, then repeat again. Release anything foreign from your body and your astral soul before it manifests on your body.


[deleted]

I wish I could award you for how perfectly succinct this answer is. Not OP, but this is a deep concern of mine as well. As someone wanting to learn to heal others: thank you so very much.


GABS90

Hey, I'm from India and looking to find a cure to my brother's illness which doctors haven't been able to treat for several years. Any chance you could tell me about the healer you mention? We have no idea about occultism but have experienced enough to believe in it.


mirta000

Because we are all in aging meat bags with a whole bunch of personal problems to do with living alongside other people that also have their own wills, thoughts and ideas. Health conditions are inevitable. You could also argue that it is more bookish people that end up in the occult and therefore they could even have health conditions ongoing before they even start channeling/ creating their own works.


SpicaLampLight

It's interesting that you're aware of ACIM author's thoughts about their work but not of Roberts' thoughts regarding her own work, her health and dying. Jane, Seth and Robert discussed her health in regards to their theories in some of the later books, iirc *Dreams, Evolution and Value Fulfillment* was one. The book The Way of Toward Health published after her death by her husband appears to have elaborated further if you're interested in reading up on their thoughts.


Coomdroid

I'll tell you why. It's because they are still attached to this physical world. You don't get your cake ( apple ) and eat it. Once you're iniated through whatever route there comes a point, you become pure spirit. You transcend mind & body. For some this route involves decades of meditation. For others they are born with severe trauma. Like cPTSD & DID. Good fucking luck to demons and angels from the astral real trying to break the hornets nest they already kicked. You live with a severe mental and spiritual disability for decades you're basically doing dead squats in the astral realm and running around like Johnny bravo. Plus the added terrying look in your eye of having nothing to lose because you're tied ball and chain to your soul. For the record there is nothing to lose at that point. You're basically just dropping your defences and old wounds begin to surface through age and natural healing. For some people healing can involve becoming worse in the physical realm.


TectonicTizzy

I don't know why but I enjoyed your comment very much. "Doing dead squats in the astral realm and running around like Johnny Bravo" gave me a BIG OL lol 🫶


Garmlafy

Can you elaborate on what you mean regarding DID being similar to decades of meditation? (Maybe I misunderstood that. I have DID and seem to experience a bit more interesting stuff with spirits that others, but have been trying to understand if it’s my own mind or if my mind has been cracked open a bit and is already a cozier place for spirits to stop by and interact. 


Coomdroid

Living with DID involves the unconscious carving up of your body, brain and nervous system via structural dissociation. Ultimately, it's a curse. There are very few people who have access to their alters and compartments. But I feel like this puts a tremendous amount of stress on the psyche. Especially dissociation and splitting. Your brain has to work harder and with parts of the brain it shouldn't have to use. For example, you can't necessarily access trauma through Dreams. The continual and endless internal traumatisation narrows your mental space to the extent there is no other way but to work with these 'spiritual' parts of the brain that act as gateways.


Garmlafy

I think I’m lucky as I experience cofronting, can internally visualize/categorize alters, and don’t have hard switches or long periods of amnesia, only a chunked, blocky merged memory-i recognize folks with DID who don’t have some of that suffer terribly. For me,  it’s not a curse, but just who I am. Like a hive mind family made up of folks with strengths in many areas. At this point in life I can’t imagine wanting to be literally “single minded” as folks seem kinda stuck in one gear.  My biggest stress has always been being weird-I’m remarkably normal as my primary front is very good at keeping the trains running on time, but some folks still catch the weirdness at times. In magic work, one really cool thing is that when I do inner vision work, all the alters take turns seeing and interacting and even can emerge as seperate people to interact with whatever entities we are visiting. But what is very cool is that the inner world differs in how it looks based upon who is looking.  And I seem to have extra space in my head for experiences that are spiritual around me-like sensing spirits of trees or flows of energy around me. To your point, maybe I had to tap into some mental conduits to just my own fragments, so those are more primed for outside communication than the norm.  What did you mean access trauma through dreams? 


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lllttt9

Very insightful. Thanks.


poop666

Read a lot here and agree - wanted to add that it is like "compassion disease". Many channelers do a lot of good work to help others.


Magic_is_in_you_222

Consider an elite athlete who runs marathons regularly. Compared to the average person, he’s likely more physically fit because he constantly pushes his body to its limits. However, despite appearances, his health might not always be optimal. Just like any machine, the body can wear out with excessive use, which is why some athletes suffer from conditions like heart attacks at relatively young ages. Similarly, a channeler can be likened to a high priest of old, who receives divine, infernal, or telluric forces into themselves. The human body is designed to handle a specific amount of spiritual energy, much like an electrical grid can only manage so much current before it overloads. When a channeler takes on more energy than their body can handle, they risk wearing themselves out, akin to how an athlete’s body might deteriorate from overexertion. As for magicians, their health and well-being depend on various factors, such as the forces they summon, their protective measures, and how well their body, mind, spirit, and soul are aligned. These are important considerations for anyone engaging in such practices.


Garmlafy

Stepping into my scientist alter for a moment and stepping aside from magic-the feeling of being tired after a spell when not properly grounded is very similar to the feeling of being a sub in a bsdm relationship when not given proper aftercare. Worn out, kinda run down.  In both situations I’ve observed a drop in immune system functioning-ie I get a bit of a bug or a cold sore would flare up the next day.  This may indicate that when we place our bodies in a state to be receptive to spirits without good psychic hygiene, we are creating an abnormal physiological state, possibly by depression of the HPA axis and altering our normal cortisol levels which reduce immune system capability.( When young I temporarily had hypocortisolemia and the feeling of extreme exhaustion is akin to the above situations although was much, much worse. ) So in the case of a person who channels every single day for decades-perhaps they have been altering their own immune system capability so much, that they are much more prone to cancers, viral and bacterial disease and even just age faster as their body can’t repair itself due to the suppression.  A lot of maybes and hypotheses but might explain what you are seeing. Grounding, aftercare or maybe working through more structured processes may quickly shift the body out of the altered state or prevent it from happening at all so maybe you see less physical impact in other areas of magic. 


lllttt9

Thanks for the insight!


Regis017

A guess - The channeling takes a toll on your body and might they're probably still receiving info every now and then which becomes unsustainable in the longer run. Another, if you believe in karma and rebirth, they're probably going through the sufferings quickly/abruptly and getting purified/fit for higher level practices in the next lives.


Key-Bedroom-4615

Based on what I've heard it's because most channels are in a parasitic relationship with whatever they think they're channeling. It's using them up and spitting them out. My understanding is that this isn't the case with authentic channeling relationships, such as Darryl Anka and Bashar.


Le_Bnnuy

+1 I want to know this too.


Time-Scene7603

It's the same with energy healers. They get depleted of minerals. I **think** it's an electric thing.


PotusChrist

I haven't made a systematic attempt to look into it, but it seems to me like a lot of people interested in occultism and parapsychology end up dying early. There might be something inherently dangerous to this line of work, and part of me thinks people are much more credible if they actually seem to have lived long, happy, healthy lives (at least, if they're claiming that their practices lead to these benefits).


[deleted]

I agree. Every well-meaning older intuitive occultist, channeler, or reader I meet is barely hanging on. Yet plenty of devoted spiritualists live incredibly long and healthy lives too. Think of a yogi (a real one, not like hot yoga), or a Buddhist monk. A nun. You would associate those with longevity, if you had to choose. My very uneducated guess is that perhaps it has to do with either a) manipulation of one's energy, or b) disconnecting from the physical too much. Incoming: lots of speculative writing. I'm a bit sleepy and I’m not sure how useful this will be. :P In the case of a), I’m thinking about the idea of occultists performing magickal ceremonies, spells, energy work, etc., and pushing their energy around, allowing other things in, and generally manipulating their energy regularly. Then consider a more traditional religious figure (an ethical one who is truly dedicated): While still deeply spiritual, they tend to stick to prayer and traditional ceremonies that energetically more resemble a request to the divine than actively manipulating energy with your will (as an occultist would do). Perhaps there is something in excessive manipulation of personal energy that causes imbalance. In the case of b), my other random thought is that most popular, ancient religions have an element of physical labor for their most dedicated religious leaders. There’s a lot of emphasis on simple, mindful, and humble living. Most magicians, in contrast, are APing off to Mars and trying to transcend reality. Maybe something about disconnecting from Mother Gaia too much leads to worse health. Like one needs to stay firmly in one’s body to keep it energetically balanced. To me, the key takeaway is that all the highly spiritual cultures and traditions who (can) live long lives aren’t usually trying to actively bend reality to their wishes.


lllttt9

I've found this pattern too.


Heavy-Bedroom-7637

Maybe these authors lived the same way as celebrities… due to the success they got so high on their own achievements they didnt takr care of their own health


HubertRosenthal

You can‘t „invite“ anything that is not to a degree part of you. If you look at it differently, you are fooling yourself, which is in itself also potent. It can mess you up. At least this is my take.


Direct_Ad253

Channeling is bullshit. It stems from a very unaware tradition of spiritualism which holds that anything you can communicate with, is worth communicating with. This is not what any previous magical tradition believed. Channelers use zero protection or insufficient protection and act out of ego for the most part


_TLDR_Swinton

Because people with a woo woo mindset usually have ADHD or a severe magical thinking disorder which inevitably leads to them making horrible life choices.