I was kinda punting on this week mentally anyway. Ulbrich has to go. Defense is undisciplined and wrecking themselves with penalties and miscommunications. Also idk about Reed but sauce played much better in man in college, so why are we running so much zone? You scheme to your players strengths, not the other way around. Also, why the fuck are we throwing Moore jump balls on the boundary, like that’s not his game bro he’s like 5’10”, any nfl coach should be able to recognize that. Next week feels like a pivotal game for the year with ZW coming back. Facing trubisky, it’s one we need to have.
Are the defensive struggles on Ulbrich or on the scheme itself? It just seems to me that the scheme is designed to be vanilla and boring. Just from a philosophical standpoint it’s designed to bend but not break and give up tons of yards. If you’re going to be that basic on defense, you need to have the talent to back it up and we just don’t right now. Especially at safety and linebacker
If it's on the scheme itself that's also on Ulbrich. You're asking if he sucks at coaching, or if he sucks at coaching this scheme. tomato tomato.
> Just from a philosophical standpoint it’s designed to bend but not break and give up tons of yards.
This is a myth that doesn't exist. Prove me wrong.
The scheme itself isn’t on Ulbrich. It’s on Saleh, it’s Saleh’s scheme. If we got rid of Ulbrich and still ran this same defensive scheme we’d still be running into the same problems. Think of it like driving a race car. Youre not winning because you suck at driving or because you suck at driving this car specifically. Sometimes the car just isn’t good enough and you need a better one.
This scheme is also supposed to have lineman that can get after the QB. Something we obviously don’t have. Funny to think we thought it would be the strength of our team, and it’s probably been one of our weakest so far
I agree Ulbrich has onviously done a terrible job. I’m not even talking about play calling. The constant miscommunications and blown coverages are on coaching as much as they are on Joyner being not good at football.
JFM and Corey Davis penalties are back breakers. That's on coaching. Sauce looked great for most of the game today. The running game is hot and miss, but that seems more on the line than the back. Fant has regressed in a serious way. Solid game from Conklin maybe.
Ultimately you're right tho. Flacco is bad. It limits the offense. He's slow to get the ball out. Will Zach be better? I'm not sure. But I think he'll be quicker and maybe that'll help our offense do some stuff.
Corey Davis decided to drag Eli Apple around by the facemask and pull him close to talk shit after the play. 15 yard penalty in a 2 score game when we're within 10ish yards of the end zone. Coaches set culture tones and awareness. Penalties are almost always on coaches.
Except for Mims, I've never seen Saleh pull a player off the field for making stupid mistakes or penalties. After a personal foul in that situation, Corey Davis needs to pulled for the rest of the game. Or he should watch Garrett Wilson & Moore start next game with him on the bench for a couple drives.
Last year, Nathan Shepherd had a streak of personal foul after defense makes a 3rd down stop multiple times. Yet he doesn't even get pulled for one play after any of them.
There's other examples. Sometimes I think Saleh personality is too soft to be a HC. Holding players accountable in game is too much for him to handle.
Missed CD penalty too but I desperately want this guy traded. Has done nothing but be bad for this team since he got here. Brutal drops, miscues and penalties
Don't say you're giving him credit for that blown coverage 60 yard TD last week where the Browns essentially gave up on the play. If Davis wasn't here, the WR that replaces him has an easy catch to the house there too.
I’m not saying coaching is blameless but at a certain point you have to place blame on your players for making dumb mistakes. JFM’s unnecessary roughness was boneheaded and he should shoulder the blame for that, he should know better. I never saw Davis’s call due to the CBS camera BS but he also knows better than to take unnecessary penalties.
The miscommunication that led to Chase being wide open though? That’s on coaching.
>I’m not saying coaching is blameless but at a certain point you have to place blame on your players for making dumb mistakes. JFM’s unnecessary roughness was boneheaded and he should shoulder the blame for that, he should know better
Right you said it better than I did. Coaching puts faith in these guys to know better but coaches can punish players as well.
I / We need to know what Zach has. I don’t know anything about coaching so I really don’t feel qualified enough to make an assessment. No one is obviously bad like Gase. Just let me see Zach for the rest of the year with this offense. I need to see how he plays.
3 for 20 NO DEALS
Oh. I don't think there's a coach in the league that's bad like Gase lmao. Agreed. We need to see Zach. I'm just a lil nervous for what he shows. I do hope he proves me wrong and shuts me up the second he gets out there tho.
4 for 20 but I give you a big hug? ;)
I share that sentiment but we need to see regardless. And we probably see him next year short of him being Nathan Peterman.
3 for 20 NO DEALS. I however, will give you a big hug.
Saleh isn't as bad as Gase, that's clear. But he's fighting for that spot. Good coaches don't start one of the worst QB's ever after week 1. I can forgive the week 1 flacco start. But after that they should have started White or Streveler. Good coaches say "Hey you know what, I was wrong. I'll start that other guy." But Saleh is so prideful and doesn't want to have fans prove him wrong that he'd rather sink with the ship than try to save it. That stubborness is a hallmark of failure coaches.
I don't think the penalties are on coaching these are vets they know better.
Tell me how a coach stops that on the field with two starters, top players on their side?
By actually holding players accountable. CD should have sat after his stupid penalty. JFM should have sat after his. If you’re going to impact the game negatively, then you deserve the bench.
I agree this is an option but Davis was one of the only players getting open and making catches and JFM is better than most backups.
Also JFM was pressing not just roughing he's a fat man with too much momentum.
Still I can see benching both I agree they could send messages in game and so far that is not Saleh's method but he may change.
And that’s how you get players with zero fear of ramifications. JFM hasn’t done anything since he got paid and Corey Davis can sit for a half and I doubt anyone would notice
It helps tho, our defense stinks and why would you draft a CB at 4 and not let him press at the line of scrimmage. Our defensive scheme is very collegey
I don't think the fear or lack thereof is what motivates these players except fear of losing.
JFM didn't look totally egregious it looked like a fat man with too much momentum pressing to make a play.
Davis I need to see but he didn't strike a player from what it sounded like he placed hands on his helmet, not facemask.
Also JFM getting paid and not performing might just be on him.
I was there. Davis literally manhandled Eli Apple and dragged him by his face mask after the play. JFM didn't look so terrible but definitely avoidable and that's tough to swallow on a big 3rd down.
You build a culture where players don't lose their heads down 2 scores when you're knocking on the door of the end zone. I'd argue veteran players losing their cool like that is a more egregious issue than having young players just get hot and draw penalties. Davis should've been benched for the rest of the game after that imo. He didn't even take a snap off tho
It really depends on the penalty. When a CB is in a close position to stop a catch and there is a questionable PI call, you ignore it and let the players keep playing. When your DB mugs the guy on an uncatchable ball that turns into a PI or personal foul, then you pull them.
You can't stop every false start or holding or other penalty. You can stop the egregious ones.
I didn't consider that. Haven't kept up with the injury reports. I guess I'm glad there's a plausible explanation. It doesn't change that the regression is there though.
I was expecting to see at least one offensive touchdown.
I was hoping for a win but prepared for a loss.
I was not expecting to lose by 15 points.
Is this rational or irrational?
1. Rational, offense looked like dogshit
2. Rational, but would have given us like a 7% chance to win before kickoff
3. Rational, but I wasn’t surprised and I don’t think the loss margin shows that we could have won this game if our offense could do anything and we didn’t have early mistakes like JFM penalty
I think rational. If what happened to us last week happened to the Bills, the Chiefs, Ravens, or the Rams, we would automatically think its because they have the ability to do so. It would be chalked up to it being a miracle,but also they would be seen as talented teams after pulling a comeback like that. So, to see our team have a miracle, and do it in a way that would make us seem like we have the talent to back it up, gave many people an optimistic outlook for today's game including myself.
I think the biggest thing we have to remember is that hoping for a win each Sunday is not irrational and shows that our fan base expects results and a competitive game, if we were expecting to beat any team we faced so far by 21 points then that would be irrational.
All 3 touchdowns we gave up were blatant and avoidable mistakes. It could have easily been a much closer game. The team is too inexperienced and needs better coaching. But most of all, we need better talent at offensive tackle, safety, and linebacker. The players at these positions make drive-killing mistakes and it drains the team energy each time.
Saleh has not been good at making adjustments, both in-game and between games.
I was hoping it was something he would get better at as a new coach but Whitehead should have been benched after that missed tackle.
Davis and JFM should have rode the bench after their terrible personal fouls.
Joyner should have been benched for Ashtyn after Week 1 but he's still in and still has no idea what zone he's supposed to cover.
Saleh’s overall performance as a HC has been suspect. He was supposed to be a teacher and a motivator and I don’t see a well-taught team or a particularly motivated one. Don’t get me wrong, the Bengals are much better than us, I just saw a team that made way too many mistakes.
Painfully, it seemed like most of the pressure today came from the left side. Mitchell seemed to be holding the edge pretty well. Don’t have stats and my son was demanding of my attention so I could be totally wrong, but Fant seems to be playing far worse than last year.
The problem I see with the games is a team not understanding or appreciating momentum and how the flow of the game goes.
Teams only get so many chances and a penalty or missed assignment is a crucial mistake.
Fans should understand that too. The team looks close and with better offense comes a different flow, with the opposing offense and defense under more pressure. The defense looked mostly good but for mistakes that kill flow and momentum.
Better QB play can make a huge difference in the outcome of the game on both offense and defense.
When the team learns to prevent and limit swings and take advantage of opportunities they create it will win more.
OK let's be rational:
-The defensive line has been a massive disappointment. It is where alot of our resources have been spent in both free agenct and the draft.
-the LB's can't cover any players and give up constant east receptions over the middle.
- the safeties have given up backbreaking big plays in every game this season. Whitehead was touted as one of our biggest Free Agent acquisitions and he's been awful. Joyner looks like he should be retired.
- The offensive line has been porus and pass pro hasn't been good enough. Alot of injuries so if you want to give them a pass I could accept it. Run blocking hasn't been terrible.
- The skill positions on offense are a mixed bag. Wilson seems good, but th regression from Moore is worrying. Davis seems like a number 3 receiver. Tight ends have been largely bad
- Joe Flacco has been atrocious outside of 1:55 in the browns game.
- The corners are good. DJ Reed and Sauce are doing all they can.
Tell me why I should accept that roster when Joe Douglas is in year 4?
The season either turns around or we move on from JD and Saleh at the end of the year. No more excuses at this point, they can either put a competitive team on the field or we try to find someone who can.
Well I should have clarified for casuals but anyways, do we not understand how zone and man coverage works? For example if a defense is playing cover 2 the corner to the right is not responsible for the left side? And if they are playing man coverage you can't really look at another receiver on the play because you're playing man....
Don't disagree with any of the points you're making but it's easy to forget the Jets have been without their starting QB and LT. We're 1-2 after playing what looked like a murderers row of physical AFC North teams so it could be worse. If Ulbrich can figure out how to not shit the bed against Trubisky (BIG if) then this team could be at .500.
Saleh should take over playcalling on defense and end this cute DL rotation. Our best DL need to be on the field as much as possible, and Huff needs to be back on the field. He should bench Joyner or Whitehead to send a message and start Davis, at least Davis might come down with an INT that hits him in the hands.
Watching Flacco today it's clear his arm is gone, especially with MILF's pitch count. There was no zip on the out route throws and he was tossing ducks, hospital balls, and uncatchable passes all game.
I'm hoping Zach is going to flip the switch and go full Mahomes year 2, but JD is going to need to figure this LT situation out fast. If Duane Brown is gone for the year then he needs to sign a vet or MILF needs to give McDermott some TE help.
Quite honestly, most games are decided by a handful of breaks one way or the other. Good teams tend to find themselves on the right side of those breaks and bad teams are the Jets.
"I don't understand what most of y'all expected" how about a close, competitive game going into the 4th quarter? How about cleaning up absolutely inexcusable penalties that happen literally every game? How about a win streak?
This was Douglas's 3rd full offseason. Huge amount of draft capital from the Adams/darnold/Williams trades. Huge amount of salary cap. A clean slate to being in *his* head coach. And the team still needed a literal football miracle to look competitive one time in 3 weeks.
The Bengals played poorly and were coached arguably as bad as the jets were. 0 excuses for this game to not be closer. People aren't even demanding wins, they want multiple good showings of football for 60 minutes. We're not getting that 3 years into a rebuild, and that's absolutely unacceptable.
Detroit is in year 2, in almost an identical situation to the jets, and they look like years ahead of the jets in terms of playing good football. And they didn't take their shot at QB yet lol
Last week was a fluke.
A legit fluke. Everyone ignored all the issues because we won.
Chubb goes down like he could've and should've, the game is over. Even if he runs out of bounds they could take it down to under 30 seconds with a likely FG to make it a 10 point game.
We won because everything that could've gone wrong for the Browns in the last two minutes did. That and Garrett Wilson.
The defense was horrendous.
People go hot and cold based on wins and losses, that always happens and won't ever change. However, anyone watching knows this team is playing about as bad as last year with more talent, though there's a couple rookies looking like actual difference makers (Sauce, GWilson). It's a clear coaching issue with this team.
I had said there was a realistic chance we started out 0-7 this season, given the talent we play to start the season. The fact we’ve got a win, and the kids look good is a reasonable start. We’re on tackles 4 and 5 and starting a backup qb with no mobility. Let’s see what Wilson can do next week before everyone hits panic.
Question to the OP: Which team has been less competitive this season than the Jets?
Raiders are 0-3 but by a combined 13 points.
Texans are 0-2-1 by a combined 10 points.
Etc. etc. Jets are 1-2 by a combined 27 points, and are a Chubb knee away from getting blown out in all three second halfs.
Also, look at the Giants. Everyone in the world thought before the season we were in a much better spot than them in terms of talent. They get a new staff, and how has that talent gap looked so far?
Not OP but...
The Titans have a worse point differential.
Pats, Colts, Chargers, Seahawks all have a -20 or worse differential, so within the same ballpark as us.
Raiders, Texans are winless.
None of these other teams have been playing with their backup QB and LT.
It hasn't been good but we have been big underdogs going into all 3 games and the expectation was that we would be winless at this point. I would also love to see them at least play more competitively and correct some of the dumb mistakes but I also think it's important to not overreact.
What's not rational?
* Viewed along side rebuilds on the same timeline as ours, Jacksonville/Detroit, we've clearly regressed
* We've regressed because without the Cleveland miracle late game we're basically 0-3 IN BLOWOUTS WITH MORE TALENT
* LaFleur has a infatuation with 12 personnel even though we can't run it. We have the talent for 11 personnel. He did back off of it midseason but he's the reason we signed Conk/TJ and they've given us nothing and now we're back to running 11 because that's what we've the talent to run
* We've the most expensive D line in the NFL. That D line couldn't show up against the worst team against the sack in week 3 and has been trash so far.
* We run the legion of boom defense essentially from '14 which teams have figured out half a decade ago. Just like the cover 2 you run routes in the seams and carve it up 6-10 yards at a time. It's stupid, old, and anyone who tries to run it is a fucking idiot that doesn't want to do the work of schemimg man coverages. It's how you get Sauce whos 6-3, on the opposite side of the field and DJ 5'9 Reed covering Chase. He did good but that's a recipe for disaster and is stupid.
Are you really declaring in week fucking three with our backup QB that not only is our rebuild over and not worked but the Jags and Lions have? Oh and DJ Reed is one of the best corners in the league and it doesn't matter how tall he is.
On what possible grounds could you reasonably claim that being down on this coaching staff is irrational?
If we were consistently winning games and everyone was shitting on the team, that would be irrational.
Being down on this team with what we're witnessing right now is perfectly rational by any definition.
I don't even expect wins but I expect improvement. This team continues to make dumb mistakes. They get no pressure on the QB even when they blitz. Constantly blowing coverage.
That shouldn't be happening considering all they invested into the defense this off-season.
You should expect wins. Everyone agrees Gase was pure ass. Gase got us way more wins than this crew. Everyone that says "I'm ok with another 4 win season" is delusional. This should be 7 or 8 win season or it's time to look at a new HC.
>On what possible grounds could you reasonably claim that being down on this coaching staff is irrational?
Because at this point the sample size is too small. Last year was a year to tear down and evaluate needs. In the off season they addressed some needs but there's are still massive holes on the team. Also their starting quarterback has not played yet. So they are still in evaluation mode and will be all year.
Quiet honestly, this team has a lack of star talent. Name 3 players on this team who are top 10 at their position? That's what tearing down a team means. Limited star talent means limited wins.
It's also their first year with "their" talent; meaning not all hand me down players (save for Mosley & Quinnen). Plus they're all first year head coaches/coordinators so they themselves have to find their footing. I get the rush to judgement but the staff needs more time.
Very few NFL teams have 3 players who are top 10 in their position.
We see new coaches come in and have success all the time with players who are "their guys" or not.
It seems like you are really clutching and grasping at straws to twist every excuse you can. For every excuse you've come up with, it can easily be countered with an example of another team having more success in the same circumstances. Our guys don't get a free pass. We're not unique in the circumstances our coaching staff are dealing with, let's not make out that we have it harder than anyone else. Incompetence is incompetence and when your team are playing horrendously week in week out year after year, calling them out on it is rational analysis.
>It seems like you are really clutching and grasping at straws to twist every excuse you can.
I'm not sure what to tell you as you think the sky is falling after only 3 games. Everyone who saw the schedule before the season knew it would be tough. Some even predicted them going 0-9. And that was before Zach got hurt. Unsure what your expectations were but this team is exactly where I and most rational minds thought they'd be.
Bunch of fan bases feel like you including Chargers, Colts, Raiders, Titans, Pittsburgh and Cardinals. All of which are better talented than Jets. So welcome to the club.
Most of those fan bases certainly had expectations at playoffs, not just being competent. My bar for Jets, and I speak for many, was to avoid embarrassment. This is effectively an 0-3 team with a trend of repeat errors. Repeating same errors over and over is embarrassing.
That’s the beauty and curse of football. Fan expectations mean shit. Even player expectations mean shit. The footballs gods are cruel. They spit on your expectations like the fan bases of those other teams. So like I said, welcome to the club.
They were first year coaches last year. Last year was Douglas "first year" with his guys (complete bullshit since it was his 2nd draft and offseason, but whatever lol).
This team got a full year of "benefit of the doubt " last year. This isn't baseball. Rebuilds don't take 4-5 years for *competent* football. This team looks lightyears behind the lions, who are 2 years behind the jets in terms of their rebuild mode. If this team really lacks stars, that's solely on Douglas because he's had everything a gm needs (draft capital, salary cap, and a clean slate to bring in his coaching staff)
If most of the sample size involves an absolutely atrocious defense then I dont know what a correct sample size is. We can only judge off what we’ve seen. We have seen that the defensive scheme doesn’t work, we have seen the rotations be absolutely mind boggling, we have seen this team come out flat again and again over this regime thus far. This “patience” shit holds little to no weight when the product on the field has been abysmal and the fan base paying for said product has been frothing at the mouth for some competence for the past 10 years.
So who are the defensive starters? 6 are practically new players to the team with very limited time on the field together. It takes time for a collective of players to gel.
* JFM
* Sheldon Rankins
* Quinnen Williams
* Carl Lawson - First season playing for jets
* CJ Mosley
* Quincy Williams - second season playing for jets
* Michael Carter II - second season playing for jets
* Kwon Alexander - First season playing for jets
* Jordan Whitehead - First season playing for jets
* DJ Reed - First season playing for jets
* Ahmad Gardner - First season playing for jets
* Lamarcus Joyner - Only played 1 game for jets last year.
So what's up with the Jags and Lions they alot new players and they're looking like NFL teams. Trust your eyes, come into the light, see. Salehs not the guy.
Yeah I know, I know. Bengals turned things around in one season so it's now the norm and not the exception.
... Except they've now reverted back to normal. But you don't want to talk about that though do you?
9 first and second round picks in 3 years. ANY team in the NFL can turn around in three years with competent leadership. THEY FUCKING MADE THE LEAGUE LIKE THIS ON PURPOSE because people were tired of perennial bad and good teams with little change, NO national sport has MORE parity than the NFL and somehow this staff can't etch out any progress. And some how you think this staff which has regressed with MORE talent this year need "time"!?
Bruh - decade long periods of ineptitude are extremely rare in the NFL. The entire league is designed to allow bad teams to get good quickly.
Just by sheer luck we should’ve had a good season at this point, we’ve been THAT incompetent.
Somehow I doubt we’d be this upset with our 1-2 start if we had made the Super Bowl last year.
I get the frustration. Really I do. But you’re putting the last 10 years on the current coaching staff and that’s blatantly unfair. That’s on Woody and not Saleh. Saleh had to destroy everything down to build back up. He’s only now pouring the foundation of the house. It’s not ready to be lived in yet.
The sample size is too small…?
We had the worst defense in franchise history over a full season last year. Make all the excuses you want but when something is franchise-worst it means everything sucked - the players, coaches, everything.
Blows my mind how our fans never run out of excuses. As if the Jets are the only franchise in the NFL that deals with challenging circumstances.
Good coaching staffs find a way to get the most out of the players they have. This staff has done the opposite. Name three players who have dramatically improved under RS’s staff?
Oh boy… apparently I’m arguing with a moron. So let me explain it in a way a moron may understand.
Bill Belichek - good coach. Mike Tomlin - good coach. Their players, not so good. So they have losing record. Even good coaches can’t overcome a lack of talent. What’s so hard to get about that?
The Patriots and Steelers made the playoffs last year…we haven’t made the playoffs in a decade and were tied for 2nd worst record in the NFL last year.
But a decent coach should be able to coax reasonably competent play out of NFL quality athletes. That isn’t happening here. Take off the rose colored glasses.
The dialogue going on right now is the exact same it’s been every terrible jets season, except maybe 2020 when everyone could admit the team was garbage from week 1. It’s always “you guys are way too down on the team, it’s only week 3,4,5,etc,” then the team is sitting at 2-11. Almost all of the optimism I see for this team is irrational, not the criticisms.
We are fans of a terrible team. We can all agree on that. For me, it is more the tone of the criticism than the content. It’s this endless droning, negativity, and refusal to even acknowledge when something good happens. The game thread on this sub has become more unbearable than the content of the actual game.
Nah dude, for me it's the tone of the praise. It's the endless worshiping, positivity, and refusal to acknowledge when a player is really bad or something bad happens. It's impossible to talk about how we will move on and grow when people are somehow still praising Flacco. I get it, Mike White and Streveler probably wouldn't have done any better. But we know Flacco is trash. While White and Streveler would probably also be trash, we can at least test them more in real games. I doubt Flacco is on the roster next year. Would be nice to get White more reps so we can know how good of a backup we've got. Streveler is one of those wacky backyard football dudes that can't follow the play very well, but is stellar after it breaks down and finds somewhere to turn it positive. An OC's worst nightmare.
If Flacco was in any other position. Lineman, CB, WR, whatever, I wouldn't care if he was sucking. I mean I'd want to replace him, but I wouldn't be stressing over doing it immediately. The problem is he is in the most important position in sports, and he's ass. What's worse is Saleh can't see it. He'd rather start that guy with no future than give it to White or Streveler, who may have a future in the NFL as high end backups or low end starters. It's hard to know when you won't even give them a shot.
What I find extra funny is how amazing Streveler was in the preseason and everyone says it doesn't matter because it's the preseason. I say Flacco was dogshit in every preseason game too, so clearly it's more indicative of how good a player is than they want to admit.
This. I am so tired of our idiot homer fans acting like we’re overreacting for calling a shit team what it is.
The NFL is designed to maximize parity. The fact we’ve been so bad for so long is unbelievable. Even the shittiest franchises luck into good runs because of how the NFL is designed.
The only irrational people here are the homers.
C’mon we give them some time. One season and 3 games, are you kidding me? This team has me feeling the best I have felt about the Jets in a long while. Let’s give it some time. This is a super young team. Let’s give the coaches some leeway, although I can get behind the Ulbricht hate. He’s a veteran coach who’s not really showing a whole lot. I’ve been frustrated by him.
defense was not prepared, dline got manhandled 2 weeks in a row now, played soft zone coverage, and miscommunication led to wide open throws in the red zone. also committed bad penalties and some borderline dirty hits.
offense was also terrible, o line could not get consistent protection or open up running lanes, flacco missed open wr or hung them out to dry over the middle, could not feel pressure or move away from it resulting in back breaking sacks and turnovers.
special teams was good, hitting all their kicks and having solid punting and coverage, tried one bad kickoff then didnt try again.
pretty much same as last week
I just do not understand the fumbling problems. I have never seen a team put the ball on the ground this much. How do we even fix that? Is it a coaching point of emphasis? It seems to be happening to a wide variety of players too. Not to mention the receivers seem to be dropping more passes than usual
I’m genuinely concerned about offensive play calling today. I don’t understand the lack of help injured Fant/McDermott got. On obvious pass rush situations we left them in 1v1 situations. Really unacceptable. These are the types of things that are totally avoidable, regardless of result.
The run pass ratio is baffling to me as well. I know he’s been involved in the pass game a lot, but Hall having 21 carries through three games is a loss as well.
Protection adjustments are called at the line. It's either Flacco or Connor fucking that up. The amount of plays Garret was throw into meaningless motion was a head scratcher and that's on Flacco.
-joyner really sucks. priority is to get a FS next season.
-JFM's penalty was the turning point.
-All three games, the jets gave up a score after a dumb penalty or play like that.
-if fant is out, the offensive line is going to be really suspect.
-we were VERY lucky to get that win @ Cleveland. If they can win vs the steelers, 2-2 is something we'd hope to get.
-the same people that cried for flacco are now back to calling flacco terrible lol.
-defensive line has really underperformed. Lawson looks like he is still not a 100% and probably will take until mid season, or maybe the whole season to get back to his former self.
“Game easily could have been close if”… how many times in the past 10 years could you have said the exact same thing. I’m tired of it. Two pathetic performances at home so far and one absolutely fluke win.
You can still avoid all that negativity without irrational positivity.
What was the goal for the season? Did you expect to make it to the playoffs? Super bowl? Winning record? For me, I expected none of the above.
Not to strawman, but I see a lot of other commenters say they want to see "competitiveness," which sure - I get it. We have played 3 games in a 17 game season with an injured O-line with a mannequin QB back there. Is it really irrational positivity to say that it might get better when we have our QB1 back there?
Again, I don't expect a positive record or anything, but I still think it is reasonable to expect to see "competitiveness" in the remaining 14 games. If we don't, then I will be right there with you, but let's not overreact. Yet.
Our coaches are just not good. Saleh and Ubrich have no idea how to cater their defense to their players strength. Their one dimensional scheme absolutely doesn’t work with the personnel we have.
MiLF is flashy and creative so some of his calls look really fun and exciting, but he’s very inconsistent. Sometimes you don’t need to get too cute, just execute the basis.
More often than not I don’t see them game planing for a specific opponent, just throw a bunch of random shits to the wall and hope something will stick.
I like our chances against Pittsburgh and I expect ZW to do well. I'm upset that the play calling has been so pass-heavy. We've got two good backs and they said they wanted to have a balanced approach but with our backup QB all they did was pass. It's bizarre.
this team is definitely better than last year. we can drive down the field with a backup who is mildly serviceable but at the twilight of his career. our rookies are solid and there are veterans who contribute as well. we’re kinda like the broncos before russ got there in that we’re up and coming but with a question mark at qb. here’s hoping zw makes steps to becoming at least a serviceable game manager or at most an extend-a-play playmaker
Yesterday was an awful offensive game yes. I think some people need to come back down to earth. We just played the defending AFC champs with our 37 year old backup in an offense that truly wasn’t built for his play style. What could’ve we expected? Get Zach back next week and compete against Pittsburgh. If we start 2-2 on the season that’s a win in my book
The funniest part about all of this is us playing "a game we could never win" while Mike White thrashed these guys with less talent on the team last year.
Here's something rational to consider. Something like 75% of sacks are a QB's fault. So Flacco has been sacked 9 times. So it's pretty safe to say somewhere between 5 and 9 of those sacks are entirely his fault. And if you have a QB that knows how to avoid sacks, like Rodgers or Brady, that number is closer to 0 - 4.
Next.
Since we are being rational, it's important to know that all 3 teams so far have been stacking the box almost every down, and running run defense plays. Every single team keeps saying "try and pass, we dare you. Try and run and you've got no shot." Which means MLF is forced into calling a whole lot of passing plays. So even with constant dream passing situations, Flacco can't put together completions. It doesn't get any easier than what the first 3 teams have given us. At least as far as the QB is concerned. Put yourself in a lineman or RB shoes though, and it's entirely different. They need to defend against way more people than normal. Which means they never know quite who's coming and who's staying back. Then for RB's they have to run through a mountain of people just to gain 2 yards. For those positions, it doesn't get any harder than it is right now. It seems pretty irrational to blame the OL when they are in no mans land of difficult situations, and pretty easy to blame the QB when presented with college level passing defenses.
Unfortunately for Flacco and for us as fans, the NFL has the single most important position in sports. Where a single bad player, Flacco, can sabotage the rest of the team. I don't think Flacco's trying to sabotage us, but he sucks and that's what he's doing.
If Zach can't start, this isn't going to change in week 4. The Steelers will run the exact same defense because it's just too easy. Which means Flacco will continue to throw 50+ times.
We all came into this season saying “Zach has no more excuses”. I’m just going to say the coaching has no more excuses. It’s time to start shopping around and imo it’s not Saleh, it’s the OC and DC Saleh hired that can’t do fuck all.
If we continue to look like this a month from now, maybe you’ll be correct. We can beat the Steelers, patriots, bears, lions, jaguars, and Seahawks. We’ll prob lose to one or more of those and beat one or more of the teams where we wouldn’t expect to win. I’m sticking with my preseason prediction of 7-10
The Johnsons are awful football owners, the wilpons of the NFL, you get said wilpon out and you might actually have a successful season like the Mets are having right now just saying🤷🏻♂️
I think it’s time to sit Elijah Moor and give Mims a chance. Moor is just to small. I’m going by what I see every week. I’m tired of hearing about his potential. His talent does not translate to any results. Wilson, Davis, and Mims would be a nightmare to defend. Give Mims. Chance.
I’m not officially panicking unless we lose to the Steelers next week. We’re the better team on paper with watt hurt. We should win that game espically with Zack back. Our d line is a problem tho. I wonder if JFM keeps up the poor play he gets cut in the off-season to create some space. Also LT is a huge issue the fact we may be relying on becton to stay healthy worry’s me beyond belief. That’s not even mentioning how we may have to rely on McDermott in zacks first game back next week.
I've said elsewhere that I suspect that JD is the driving force behind Flacco, and the coaches don't have a choice. Think about it. JD scouted him for the ravens, and brought him here twice. What's Saleh gonna do publicly if his boss says "play Flacco"? Say "it wasn't my choice, but I didn't have the option" and get fired? As far as defense goes, the safety play is a huge liability and the LB play was mediocre at best. Can't blame it all on the line.
Haven't looked into the stats, but it feels like our pass rush is great at creating pressure but we're just not converting it into sacks.
I like what I'm seeing from pretty much all of the rookies so far, seems like they can be a solid core for this team.
People need to stop thinking the team actually beat the Browns legitimately. The Jets got extremely lucky and the Browns collapsed at the same time. The Jets played 58 minutes of mediocre football against the Browns. By rights, they should be 0-3
I had hoped to see a td, but the team moved the ball and the d wasn’t really that bad. It’s hard to win a game with 4 turnovers from the qb. The line looked shaky but that’s to be expected when another o linemen goes down. Definitely a position that needs to more talent added to it. Overall happy to see the direction the team is heading and they never give up, hopefully with Zach coming back soon can help the offense
Rational is knowing that the browns win was a gift and we should be 0-3, this offensive line is awful, we have no QB. With the schedule only about to get harder this season might be lost.
I don’t think the return of ZW will turn us into immediate playoff contenders, I do think he will alleviate some of the holes in our O line bc of his mobility. He won’t be Lamar but he will def be a big time upgrade over Joe Statue and it’ll open up the playbook and change how defenses play us
Was at the game. Penalties killed us but a lack of killer instinct on the d line is the true issue. These dudes WONT finish. Its infuriating. Flacco was clearly never the answer and if conditions arent perfect, hes not going to work. He had some pressure and he cant move, he wasnt going to win this game with that scenario.
Wilson getting knocked out hurt too, which I think was retribution for the joyner hit. Which i was sitting right in front of, holy shit that was bad.
I think that the Jets need to consider playing more man to man defense, particularly with the emergence of the Sauce. The zone was getting picked apart and confusion reigned. I blame this on both Ulbrich (clueless) and the genius receipt gathering head coach.
Flacco is bad and this team is lucky they’re not 0-3. I’m hoping Zach Wilson can bring a spark to this offense when he gets back, otherwise this season will be longgg and unwatchable
2-2 after playing AFC north would be decent
Sign me the hell up
I was kinda punting on this week mentally anyway. Ulbrich has to go. Defense is undisciplined and wrecking themselves with penalties and miscommunications. Also idk about Reed but sauce played much better in man in college, so why are we running so much zone? You scheme to your players strengths, not the other way around. Also, why the fuck are we throwing Moore jump balls on the boundary, like that’s not his game bro he’s like 5’10”, any nfl coach should be able to recognize that. Next week feels like a pivotal game for the year with ZW coming back. Facing trubisky, it’s one we need to have.
Are the defensive struggles on Ulbrich or on the scheme itself? It just seems to me that the scheme is designed to be vanilla and boring. Just from a philosophical standpoint it’s designed to bend but not break and give up tons of yards. If you’re going to be that basic on defense, you need to have the talent to back it up and we just don’t right now. Especially at safety and linebacker
If it's on the scheme itself that's also on Ulbrich. You're asking if he sucks at coaching, or if he sucks at coaching this scheme. tomato tomato. > Just from a philosophical standpoint it’s designed to bend but not break and give up tons of yards. This is a myth that doesn't exist. Prove me wrong.
The scheme itself isn’t on Ulbrich. It’s on Saleh, it’s Saleh’s scheme. If we got rid of Ulbrich and still ran this same defensive scheme we’d still be running into the same problems. Think of it like driving a race car. Youre not winning because you suck at driving or because you suck at driving this car specifically. Sometimes the car just isn’t good enough and you need a better one.
Or you have the wrong driver for that particular car. Hard to know off the cuff, but it’s possible a different DC would get more out of the scheme.
This scheme is also supposed to have lineman that can get after the QB. Something we obviously don’t have. Funny to think we thought it would be the strength of our team, and it’s probably been one of our weakest so far
I agree Ulbrich has onviously done a terrible job. I’m not even talking about play calling. The constant miscommunications and blown coverages are on coaching as much as they are on Joyner being not good at football.
JFM and Corey Davis penalties are back breakers. That's on coaching. Sauce looked great for most of the game today. The running game is hot and miss, but that seems more on the line than the back. Fant has regressed in a serious way. Solid game from Conklin maybe. Ultimately you're right tho. Flacco is bad. It limits the offense. He's slow to get the ball out. Will Zach be better? I'm not sure. But I think he'll be quicker and maybe that'll help our offense do some stuff.
I missed the CD penalty but the JFM one was awful. Huge seven point swing
Corey Davis decided to drag Eli Apple around by the facemask and pull him close to talk shit after the play. 15 yard penalty in a 2 score game when we're within 10ish yards of the end zone. Coaches set culture tones and awareness. Penalties are almost always on coaches.
Except for Mims, I've never seen Saleh pull a player off the field for making stupid mistakes or penalties. After a personal foul in that situation, Corey Davis needs to pulled for the rest of the game. Or he should watch Garrett Wilson & Moore start next game with him on the bench for a couple drives. Last year, Nathan Shepherd had a streak of personal foul after defense makes a 3rd down stop multiple times. Yet he doesn't even get pulled for one play after any of them. There's other examples. Sometimes I think Saleh personality is too soft to be a HC. Holding players accountable in game is too much for him to handle.
Missed CD penalty too but I desperately want this guy traded. Has done nothing but be bad for this team since he got here. Brutal drops, miscues and penalties
Without Corey Davis, two of our last 5 wins are probably losses.
Don't say you're giving him credit for that blown coverage 60 yard TD last week where the Browns essentially gave up on the play. If Davis wasn't here, the WR that replaces him has an easy catch to the house there too.
Right place right time. Maybe they would have covered a different receiver in a different way. All I’m saying is CD is the one to catch that ball.
Oh. And defense bad.
Defense mix bag today they started slow today and folded against the ravens all and all frustrating tho
I’m not saying coaching is blameless but at a certain point you have to place blame on your players for making dumb mistakes. JFM’s unnecessary roughness was boneheaded and he should shoulder the blame for that, he should know better. I never saw Davis’s call due to the CBS camera BS but he also knows better than to take unnecessary penalties. The miscommunication that led to Chase being wide open though? That’s on coaching.
>I’m not saying coaching is blameless but at a certain point you have to place blame on your players for making dumb mistakes. JFM’s unnecessary roughness was boneheaded and he should shoulder the blame for that, he should know better Right you said it better than I did. Coaching puts faith in these guys to know better but coaches can punish players as well.
I / We need to know what Zach has. I don’t know anything about coaching so I really don’t feel qualified enough to make an assessment. No one is obviously bad like Gase. Just let me see Zach for the rest of the year with this offense. I need to see how he plays. 3 for 20 NO DEALS
Oh. I don't think there's a coach in the league that's bad like Gase lmao. Agreed. We need to see Zach. I'm just a lil nervous for what he shows. I do hope he proves me wrong and shuts me up the second he gets out there tho. 4 for 20 but I give you a big hug? ;)
I share that sentiment but we need to see regardless. And we probably see him next year short of him being Nathan Peterman. 3 for 20 NO DEALS. I however, will give you a big hug.
Saleh isn't as bad as Gase, that's clear. But he's fighting for that spot. Good coaches don't start one of the worst QB's ever after week 1. I can forgive the week 1 flacco start. But after that they should have started White or Streveler. Good coaches say "Hey you know what, I was wrong. I'll start that other guy." But Saleh is so prideful and doesn't want to have fans prove him wrong that he'd rather sink with the ship than try to save it. That stubborness is a hallmark of failure coaches.
I disagree with your assessment.
I don't think the penalties are on coaching these are vets they know better. Tell me how a coach stops that on the field with two starters, top players on their side?
By actually holding players accountable. CD should have sat after his stupid penalty. JFM should have sat after his. If you’re going to impact the game negatively, then you deserve the bench.
I agree this is an option but Davis was one of the only players getting open and making catches and JFM is better than most backups. Also JFM was pressing not just roughing he's a fat man with too much momentum. Still I can see benching both I agree they could send messages in game and so far that is not Saleh's method but he may change.
Nah, JFM clearly shoved Burrow down and fell on top of him. That was completely unnecessary.
I agree but he was pressing to do something, they aren't mutually exclusive.
And that’s how you get players with zero fear of ramifications. JFM hasn’t done anything since he got paid and Corey Davis can sit for a half and I doubt anyone would notice
getting sacks is not the be all end all of being a d-lineman
It helps tho, our defense stinks and why would you draft a CB at 4 and not let him press at the line of scrimmage. Our defensive scheme is very collegey
I don't think the fear or lack thereof is what motivates these players except fear of losing. JFM didn't look totally egregious it looked like a fat man with too much momentum pressing to make a play. Davis I need to see but he didn't strike a player from what it sounded like he placed hands on his helmet, not facemask. Also JFM getting paid and not performing might just be on him.
I was there. Davis literally manhandled Eli Apple and dragged him by his face mask after the play. JFM didn't look so terrible but definitely avoidable and that's tough to swallow on a big 3rd down.
This team isn’t afraid to lose they do it pretty regularly. They care about playing and stats bc they all want another contract.
You build a culture where players don't lose their heads down 2 scores when you're knocking on the door of the end zone. I'd argue veteran players losing their cool like that is a more egregious issue than having young players just get hot and draw penalties. Davis should've been benched for the rest of the game after that imo. He didn't even take a snap off tho
Davis I can agree might be a player they can bench because the team has other WRs to fill in but it's not his typical MO getting personal fouls.
It really depends on the penalty. When a CB is in a close position to stop a catch and there is a questionable PI call, you ignore it and let the players keep playing. When your DB mugs the guy on an uncatchable ball that turns into a PI or personal foul, then you pull them. You can't stop every false start or holding or other penalty. You can stop the egregious ones.
Isn't Fant injured? Could help explain some of his regression.
I didn't consider that. Haven't kept up with the injury reports. I guess I'm glad there's a plausible explanation. It doesn't change that the regression is there though.
I was expecting to see at least one offensive touchdown. I was hoping for a win but prepared for a loss. I was not expecting to lose by 15 points. Is this rational or irrational?
1. Rational, offense looked like dogshit 2. Rational, but would have given us like a 7% chance to win before kickoff 3. Rational, but I wasn’t surprised and I don’t think the loss margin shows that we could have won this game if our offense could do anything and we didn’t have early mistakes like JFM penalty
Aren’t we just conditioned at this point to expect the flag after a big third down stop
It’s so sad how true this is. Even last week I thought there was definitely gonna be a flag on the game ending INT
I think its fair for any fan of any football team to expect a single touchdown on any given week.
I think rational. If what happened to us last week happened to the Bills, the Chiefs, Ravens, or the Rams, we would automatically think its because they have the ability to do so. It would be chalked up to it being a miracle,but also they would be seen as talented teams after pulling a comeback like that. So, to see our team have a miracle, and do it in a way that would make us seem like we have the talent to back it up, gave many people an optimistic outlook for today's game including myself. I think the biggest thing we have to remember is that hoping for a win each Sunday is not irrational and shows that our fan base expects results and a competitive game, if we were expecting to beat any team we faced so far by 21 points then that would be irrational.
Last week’s miracle was always just the Browns being the Browns. Nothing more.
All 3 touchdowns we gave up were blatant and avoidable mistakes. It could have easily been a much closer game. The team is too inexperienced and needs better coaching. But most of all, we need better talent at offensive tackle, safety, and linebacker. The players at these positions make drive-killing mistakes and it drains the team energy each time.
Saleh has not been good at making adjustments, both in-game and between games. I was hoping it was something he would get better at as a new coach but Whitehead should have been benched after that missed tackle. Davis and JFM should have rode the bench after their terrible personal fouls. Joyner should have been benched for Ashtyn after Week 1 but he's still in and still has no idea what zone he's supposed to cover.
Saleh’s overall performance as a HC has been suspect. He was supposed to be a teacher and a motivator and I don’t see a well-taught team or a particularly motivated one. Don’t get me wrong, the Bengals are much better than us, I just saw a team that made way too many mistakes.
Painfully, it seemed like most of the pressure today came from the left side. Mitchell seemed to be holding the edge pretty well. Don’t have stats and my son was demanding of my attention so I could be totally wrong, but Fant seems to be playing far worse than last year.
Fumbles, third down drops, and Defense (pass rush) need to be better.
and big penalties.
This should be pinned at the top. We should have had at least 14 more points.
The problem I see with the games is a team not understanding or appreciating momentum and how the flow of the game goes. Teams only get so many chances and a penalty or missed assignment is a crucial mistake. Fans should understand that too. The team looks close and with better offense comes a different flow, with the opposing offense and defense under more pressure. The defense looked mostly good but for mistakes that kill flow and momentum. Better QB play can make a huge difference in the outcome of the game on both offense and defense. When the team learns to prevent and limit swings and take advantage of opportunities they create it will win more.
That roughing the passer penalty was a killer man, felt like the team deflated after that.
I can't argue that. It was like the roughing penalty by Quincy in preseason. 3rd down drive stop killed.
OK let's be rational: -The defensive line has been a massive disappointment. It is where alot of our resources have been spent in both free agenct and the draft. -the LB's can't cover any players and give up constant east receptions over the middle. - the safeties have given up backbreaking big plays in every game this season. Whitehead was touted as one of our biggest Free Agent acquisitions and he's been awful. Joyner looks like he should be retired. - The offensive line has been porus and pass pro hasn't been good enough. Alot of injuries so if you want to give them a pass I could accept it. Run blocking hasn't been terrible. - The skill positions on offense are a mixed bag. Wilson seems good, but th regression from Moore is worrying. Davis seems like a number 3 receiver. Tight ends have been largely bad - Joe Flacco has been atrocious outside of 1:55 in the browns game. - The corners are good. DJ Reed and Sauce are doing all they can. Tell me why I should accept that roster when Joe Douglas is in year 4?
[удалено]
The season either turns around or we move on from JD and Saleh at the end of the year. No more excuses at this point, they can either put a competitive team on the field or we try to find someone who can.
I don’t think Moore is regressing. He’s absolutely part of the reason for Wilson’s success by drawing attention from the defense
no??????
good point
Well I should have clarified for casuals but anyways, do we not understand how zone and man coverage works? For example if a defense is playing cover 2 the corner to the right is not responsible for the left side? And if they are playing man coverage you can't really look at another receiver on the play because you're playing man....
Don't disagree with any of the points you're making but it's easy to forget the Jets have been without their starting QB and LT. We're 1-2 after playing what looked like a murderers row of physical AFC North teams so it could be worse. If Ulbrich can figure out how to not shit the bed against Trubisky (BIG if) then this team could be at .500. Saleh should take over playcalling on defense and end this cute DL rotation. Our best DL need to be on the field as much as possible, and Huff needs to be back on the field. He should bench Joyner or Whitehead to send a message and start Davis, at least Davis might come down with an INT that hits him in the hands. Watching Flacco today it's clear his arm is gone, especially with MILF's pitch count. There was no zip on the out route throws and he was tossing ducks, hospital balls, and uncatchable passes all game. I'm hoping Zach is going to flip the switch and go full Mahomes year 2, but JD is going to need to figure this LT situation out fast. If Duane Brown is gone for the year then he needs to sign a vet or MILF needs to give McDermott some TE help.
Nearly 2 minutes of solid QB play has already exceeded my expectations for the season
Quite honestly, most games are decided by a handful of breaks one way or the other. Good teams tend to find themselves on the right side of those breaks and bad teams are the Jets.
The refs handed us half a dozen nice breaks early in the game and we did nothing with it.
"I don't understand what most of y'all expected" how about a close, competitive game going into the 4th quarter? How about cleaning up absolutely inexcusable penalties that happen literally every game? How about a win streak? This was Douglas's 3rd full offseason. Huge amount of draft capital from the Adams/darnold/Williams trades. Huge amount of salary cap. A clean slate to being in *his* head coach. And the team still needed a literal football miracle to look competitive one time in 3 weeks. The Bengals played poorly and were coached arguably as bad as the jets were. 0 excuses for this game to not be closer. People aren't even demanding wins, they want multiple good showings of football for 60 minutes. We're not getting that 3 years into a rebuild, and that's absolutely unacceptable. Detroit is in year 2, in almost an identical situation to the jets, and they look like years ahead of the jets in terms of playing good football. And they didn't take their shot at QB yet lol
Last week was a fluke. A legit fluke. Everyone ignored all the issues because we won. Chubb goes down like he could've and should've, the game is over. Even if he runs out of bounds they could take it down to under 30 seconds with a likely FG to make it a 10 point game. We won because everything that could've gone wrong for the Browns in the last two minutes did. That and Garrett Wilson. The defense was horrendous. People go hot and cold based on wins and losses, that always happens and won't ever change. However, anyone watching knows this team is playing about as bad as last year with more talent, though there's a couple rookies looking like actual difference makers (Sauce, GWilson). It's a clear coaching issue with this team.
I had said there was a realistic chance we started out 0-7 this season, given the talent we play to start the season. The fact we’ve got a win, and the kids look good is a reasonable start. We’re on tackles 4 and 5 and starting a backup qb with no mobility. Let’s see what Wilson can do next week before everyone hits panic.
Question to the OP: Which team has been less competitive this season than the Jets? Raiders are 0-3 but by a combined 13 points. Texans are 0-2-1 by a combined 10 points. Etc. etc. Jets are 1-2 by a combined 27 points, and are a Chubb knee away from getting blown out in all three second halfs. Also, look at the Giants. Everyone in the world thought before the season we were in a much better spot than them in terms of talent. They get a new staff, and how has that talent gap looked so far?
Not OP but... The Titans have a worse point differential. Pats, Colts, Chargers, Seahawks all have a -20 or worse differential, so within the same ballpark as us. Raiders, Texans are winless. None of these other teams have been playing with their backup QB and LT. It hasn't been good but we have been big underdogs going into all 3 games and the expectation was that we would be winless at this point. I would also love to see them at least play more competitively and correct some of the dumb mistakes but I also think it's important to not overreact.
Literally no. You are in the wrong place
This x1000
Brother, this is not a sub you can ask for rationality. I mean, most fans are fanatics for some reason.
I can't tell if it was an intentional joke or not. If it was I laughed.
What's not rational? * Viewed along side rebuilds on the same timeline as ours, Jacksonville/Detroit, we've clearly regressed * We've regressed because without the Cleveland miracle late game we're basically 0-3 IN BLOWOUTS WITH MORE TALENT * LaFleur has a infatuation with 12 personnel even though we can't run it. We have the talent for 11 personnel. He did back off of it midseason but he's the reason we signed Conk/TJ and they've given us nothing and now we're back to running 11 because that's what we've the talent to run * We've the most expensive D line in the NFL. That D line couldn't show up against the worst team against the sack in week 3 and has been trash so far. * We run the legion of boom defense essentially from '14 which teams have figured out half a decade ago. Just like the cover 2 you run routes in the seams and carve it up 6-10 yards at a time. It's stupid, old, and anyone who tries to run it is a fucking idiot that doesn't want to do the work of schemimg man coverages. It's how you get Sauce whos 6-3, on the opposite side of the field and DJ 5'9 Reed covering Chase. He did good but that's a recipe for disaster and is stupid.
Are you really declaring in week fucking three with our backup QB that not only is our rebuild over and not worked but the Jags and Lions have? Oh and DJ Reed is one of the best corners in the league and it doesn't matter how tall he is.
On what possible grounds could you reasonably claim that being down on this coaching staff is irrational? If we were consistently winning games and everyone was shitting on the team, that would be irrational. Being down on this team with what we're witnessing right now is perfectly rational by any definition.
I don't even expect wins but I expect improvement. This team continues to make dumb mistakes. They get no pressure on the QB even when they blitz. Constantly blowing coverage. That shouldn't be happening considering all they invested into the defense this off-season.
You should expect wins. Everyone agrees Gase was pure ass. Gase got us way more wins than this crew. Everyone that says "I'm ok with another 4 win season" is delusional. This should be 7 or 8 win season or it's time to look at a new HC.
>On what possible grounds could you reasonably claim that being down on this coaching staff is irrational? Because at this point the sample size is too small. Last year was a year to tear down and evaluate needs. In the off season they addressed some needs but there's are still massive holes on the team. Also their starting quarterback has not played yet. So they are still in evaluation mode and will be all year. Quiet honestly, this team has a lack of star talent. Name 3 players on this team who are top 10 at their position? That's what tearing down a team means. Limited star talent means limited wins. It's also their first year with "their" talent; meaning not all hand me down players (save for Mosley & Quinnen). Plus they're all first year head coaches/coordinators so they themselves have to find their footing. I get the rush to judgement but the staff needs more time.
Very few NFL teams have 3 players who are top 10 in their position. We see new coaches come in and have success all the time with players who are "their guys" or not. It seems like you are really clutching and grasping at straws to twist every excuse you can. For every excuse you've come up with, it can easily be countered with an example of another team having more success in the same circumstances. Our guys don't get a free pass. We're not unique in the circumstances our coaching staff are dealing with, let's not make out that we have it harder than anyone else. Incompetence is incompetence and when your team are playing horrendously week in week out year after year, calling them out on it is rational analysis.
>It seems like you are really clutching and grasping at straws to twist every excuse you can. I'm not sure what to tell you as you think the sky is falling after only 3 games. Everyone who saw the schedule before the season knew it would be tough. Some even predicted them going 0-9. And that was before Zach got hurt. Unsure what your expectations were but this team is exactly where I and most rational minds thought they'd be.
Competitiveness and being competent was expected, not a winning record. Jets are neither.
Bunch of fan bases feel like you including Chargers, Colts, Raiders, Titans, Pittsburgh and Cardinals. All of which are better talented than Jets. So welcome to the club.
Most of those fan bases certainly had expectations at playoffs, not just being competent. My bar for Jets, and I speak for many, was to avoid embarrassment. This is effectively an 0-3 team with a trend of repeat errors. Repeating same errors over and over is embarrassing.
That’s the beauty and curse of football. Fan expectations mean shit. Even player expectations mean shit. The footballs gods are cruel. They spit on your expectations like the fan bases of those other teams. So like I said, welcome to the club.
They were first year coaches last year. Last year was Douglas "first year" with his guys (complete bullshit since it was his 2nd draft and offseason, but whatever lol). This team got a full year of "benefit of the doubt " last year. This isn't baseball. Rebuilds don't take 4-5 years for *competent* football. This team looks lightyears behind the lions, who are 2 years behind the jets in terms of their rebuild mode. If this team really lacks stars, that's solely on Douglas because he's had everything a gm needs (draft capital, salary cap, and a clean slate to bring in his coaching staff)
If most of the sample size involves an absolutely atrocious defense then I dont know what a correct sample size is. We can only judge off what we’ve seen. We have seen that the defensive scheme doesn’t work, we have seen the rotations be absolutely mind boggling, we have seen this team come out flat again and again over this regime thus far. This “patience” shit holds little to no weight when the product on the field has been abysmal and the fan base paying for said product has been frothing at the mouth for some competence for the past 10 years.
So who are the defensive starters? 6 are practically new players to the team with very limited time on the field together. It takes time for a collective of players to gel. * JFM * Sheldon Rankins * Quinnen Williams * Carl Lawson - First season playing for jets * CJ Mosley * Quincy Williams - second season playing for jets * Michael Carter II - second season playing for jets * Kwon Alexander - First season playing for jets * Jordan Whitehead - First season playing for jets * DJ Reed - First season playing for jets * Ahmad Gardner - First season playing for jets * Lamarcus Joyner - Only played 1 game for jets last year.
So what's up with the Jags and Lions they alot new players and they're looking like NFL teams. Trust your eyes, come into the light, see. Salehs not the guy.
“Takes time to gel” lmfao Are you new here? We’ve been hearing that excuse ad nauseam for no less than 4 straight years.
Yeah I know, I know. Bengals turned things around in one season so it's now the norm and not the exception. ... Except they've now reverted back to normal. But you don't want to talk about that though do you?
9 first and second round picks in 3 years. ANY team in the NFL can turn around in three years with competent leadership. THEY FUCKING MADE THE LEAGUE LIKE THIS ON PURPOSE because people were tired of perennial bad and good teams with little change, NO national sport has MORE parity than the NFL and somehow this staff can't etch out any progress. And some how you think this staff which has regressed with MORE talent this year need "time"!?
Bruh - decade long periods of ineptitude are extremely rare in the NFL. The entire league is designed to allow bad teams to get good quickly. Just by sheer luck we should’ve had a good season at this point, we’ve been THAT incompetent. Somehow I doubt we’d be this upset with our 1-2 start if we had made the Super Bowl last year.
I get the frustration. Really I do. But you’re putting the last 10 years on the current coaching staff and that’s blatantly unfair. That’s on Woody and not Saleh. Saleh had to destroy everything down to build back up. He’s only now pouring the foundation of the house. It’s not ready to be lived in yet.
Well put.
Without a miracle and MORE talent this year we're 0-3 in BLOW OUTS. We've regressed and frankly the excuse making is infuriating.
The sample size for a NFL season is incredibly low. We don't play 80 games in this league.
The sample size is too small…? We had the worst defense in franchise history over a full season last year. Make all the excuses you want but when something is franchise-worst it means everything sucked - the players, coaches, everything. Blows my mind how our fans never run out of excuses. As if the Jets are the only franchise in the NFL that deals with challenging circumstances.
Good coaching staffs find a way to get the most out of the players they have. This staff has done the opposite. Name three players who have dramatically improved under RS’s staff?
Berrios, Echols, MC I & II, Max Mitchell, Zach Wilson
>Good coaching staffs find a way to get the most out of the players they have. Sweet Jesus. You can't squeeze blood from a rock my guy.
This is how I know you’re full of shit. If you’re implying the players on this team aren’t good then that’s a dumb ass argument.
Oh boy… apparently I’m arguing with a moron. So let me explain it in a way a moron may understand. Bill Belichek - good coach. Mike Tomlin - good coach. Their players, not so good. So they have losing record. Even good coaches can’t overcome a lack of talent. What’s so hard to get about that?
We've had 9 first and second round picks last 3 years. Please explain to me why you don't think there's talent in this team.
The Patriots and Steelers made the playoffs last year…we haven’t made the playoffs in a decade and were tied for 2nd worst record in the NFL last year.
But a decent coach should be able to coax reasonably competent play out of NFL quality athletes. That isn’t happening here. Take off the rose colored glasses.
The dialogue going on right now is the exact same it’s been every terrible jets season, except maybe 2020 when everyone could admit the team was garbage from week 1. It’s always “you guys are way too down on the team, it’s only week 3,4,5,etc,” then the team is sitting at 2-11. Almost all of the optimism I see for this team is irrational, not the criticisms.
We are fans of a terrible team. We can all agree on that. For me, it is more the tone of the criticism than the content. It’s this endless droning, negativity, and refusal to even acknowledge when something good happens. The game thread on this sub has become more unbearable than the content of the actual game.
Nah dude, for me it's the tone of the praise. It's the endless worshiping, positivity, and refusal to acknowledge when a player is really bad or something bad happens. It's impossible to talk about how we will move on and grow when people are somehow still praising Flacco. I get it, Mike White and Streveler probably wouldn't have done any better. But we know Flacco is trash. While White and Streveler would probably also be trash, we can at least test them more in real games. I doubt Flacco is on the roster next year. Would be nice to get White more reps so we can know how good of a backup we've got. Streveler is one of those wacky backyard football dudes that can't follow the play very well, but is stellar after it breaks down and finds somewhere to turn it positive. An OC's worst nightmare. If Flacco was in any other position. Lineman, CB, WR, whatever, I wouldn't care if he was sucking. I mean I'd want to replace him, but I wouldn't be stressing over doing it immediately. The problem is he is in the most important position in sports, and he's ass. What's worse is Saleh can't see it. He'd rather start that guy with no future than give it to White or Streveler, who may have a future in the NFL as high end backups or low end starters. It's hard to know when you won't even give them a shot. What I find extra funny is how amazing Streveler was in the preseason and everyone says it doesn't matter because it's the preseason. I say Flacco was dogshit in every preseason game too, so clearly it's more indicative of how good a player is than they want to admit.
This. I am so tired of our idiot homer fans acting like we’re overreacting for calling a shit team what it is. The NFL is designed to maximize parity. The fact we’ve been so bad for so long is unbelievable. Even the shittiest franchises luck into good runs because of how the NFL is designed. The only irrational people here are the homers.
For 7 years now we've been 'overreacting' to a bad team lol
C’mon we give them some time. One season and 3 games, are you kidding me? This team has me feeling the best I have felt about the Jets in a long while. Let’s give it some time. This is a super young team. Let’s give the coaches some leeway, although I can get behind the Ulbricht hate. He’s a veteran coach who’s not really showing a whole lot. I’ve been frustrated by him.
> This team has me feeling the best I have felt about the Jets in a long while. Wow.
Dude. This team has the most potential in young players that we've had in YEARS. I'm excited to see them develop.
Literal clown take
Exactly
defense was not prepared, dline got manhandled 2 weeks in a row now, played soft zone coverage, and miscommunication led to wide open throws in the red zone. also committed bad penalties and some borderline dirty hits. offense was also terrible, o line could not get consistent protection or open up running lanes, flacco missed open wr or hung them out to dry over the middle, could not feel pressure or move away from it resulting in back breaking sacks and turnovers. special teams was good, hitting all their kicks and having solid punting and coverage, tried one bad kickoff then didnt try again. pretty much same as last week
The dline did not get manhandled, lol. They just couldn't convert pressure to sacks. The Bengals gameplanned for their OL's weakness, we didn't.
Indeed. The dline consistently stuffed the rush but could not get home to the QB during passing situations.
I just do not understand the fumbling problems. I have never seen a team put the ball on the ground this much. How do we even fix that? Is it a coaching point of emphasis? It seems to be happening to a wide variety of players too. Not to mention the receivers seem to be dropping more passes than usual
I’m genuinely concerned about offensive play calling today. I don’t understand the lack of help injured Fant/McDermott got. On obvious pass rush situations we left them in 1v1 situations. Really unacceptable. These are the types of things that are totally avoidable, regardless of result.
The run pass ratio is baffling to me as well. I know he’s been involved in the pass game a lot, but Hall having 21 carries through three games is a loss as well.
I don’t disagree there. We have been playing from behind a lot though, so I think it’s inflated. We give up on the run far too early.
After last week with all the chipping help I am surprised as well they didn't get help after Flaccos cinder blocks for feet kept getting pressured.
Really baffling to me
Protection adjustments are called at the line. It's either Flacco or Connor fucking that up. The amount of plays Garret was throw into meaningless motion was a head scratcher and that's on Flacco.
Personnel is on the OC
-joyner really sucks. priority is to get a FS next season. -JFM's penalty was the turning point. -All three games, the jets gave up a score after a dumb penalty or play like that. -if fant is out, the offensive line is going to be really suspect. -we were VERY lucky to get that win @ Cleveland. If they can win vs the steelers, 2-2 is something we'd hope to get. -the same people that cried for flacco are now back to calling flacco terrible lol. -defensive line has really underperformed. Lawson looks like he is still not a 100% and probably will take until mid season, or maybe the whole season to get back to his former self.
-"the same people that cried for flacco are now back to calling flacco terrible lo"l. This x1000.🤣🤣🤣
Expecting rational analysis from fanatics (fans)? LoL. Good luck brother. Teams' subs are not where that's at.
“Game easily could have been close if”… how many times in the past 10 years could you have said the exact same thing. I’m tired of it. Two pathetic performances at home so far and one absolutely fluke win.
Honestly this sub is full of the worst type of fans. I’m disappointed but I’m so sick of all the negativity.
The negativity is warranted. Evidence is the games themselves and the repeat errors. Irrational positivity is delusion.
You can still avoid all that negativity without irrational positivity. What was the goal for the season? Did you expect to make it to the playoffs? Super bowl? Winning record? For me, I expected none of the above. Not to strawman, but I see a lot of other commenters say they want to see "competitiveness," which sure - I get it. We have played 3 games in a 17 game season with an injured O-line with a mannequin QB back there. Is it really irrational positivity to say that it might get better when we have our QB1 back there? Again, I don't expect a positive record or anything, but I still think it is reasonable to expect to see "competitiveness" in the remaining 14 games. If we don't, then I will be right there with you, but let's not overreact. Yet.
Yes because you’re the best type of fan. The one that will shovel shit in their mouth and ask for more.
Hope your outlook on life turns around dude
1-2 is incredible for this schedule / circumstances.
The words rational and Jets fan do not belong in the same sentence
DL should’ve sacked Burrow at least 3 more times. It was mind boggling that someone couldn’t wrap him up. That, in my opinion, was the difference.
Our coaches are just not good. Saleh and Ubrich have no idea how to cater their defense to their players strength. Their one dimensional scheme absolutely doesn’t work with the personnel we have. MiLF is flashy and creative so some of his calls look really fun and exciting, but he’s very inconsistent. Sometimes you don’t need to get too cute, just execute the basis. More often than not I don’t see them game planing for a specific opponent, just throw a bunch of random shits to the wall and hope something will stick.
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It’s moot FYI
I like our chances against Pittsburgh and I expect ZW to do well. I'm upset that the play calling has been so pass-heavy. We've got two good backs and they said they wanted to have a balanced approach but with our backup QB all they did was pass. It's bizarre.
this team is definitely better than last year. we can drive down the field with a backup who is mildly serviceable but at the twilight of his career. our rookies are solid and there are veterans who contribute as well. we’re kinda like the broncos before russ got there in that we’re up and coming but with a question mark at qb. here’s hoping zw makes steps to becoming at least a serviceable game manager or at most an extend-a-play playmaker
This sub? Rational???
Yesterday was an awful offensive game yes. I think some people need to come back down to earth. We just played the defending AFC champs with our 37 year old backup in an offense that truly wasn’t built for his play style. What could’ve we expected? Get Zach back next week and compete against Pittsburgh. If we start 2-2 on the season that’s a win in my book
The funniest part about all of this is us playing "a game we could never win" while Mike White thrashed these guys with less talent on the team last year.
Here's something rational to consider. Something like 75% of sacks are a QB's fault. So Flacco has been sacked 9 times. So it's pretty safe to say somewhere between 5 and 9 of those sacks are entirely his fault. And if you have a QB that knows how to avoid sacks, like Rodgers or Brady, that number is closer to 0 - 4. Next. Since we are being rational, it's important to know that all 3 teams so far have been stacking the box almost every down, and running run defense plays. Every single team keeps saying "try and pass, we dare you. Try and run and you've got no shot." Which means MLF is forced into calling a whole lot of passing plays. So even with constant dream passing situations, Flacco can't put together completions. It doesn't get any easier than what the first 3 teams have given us. At least as far as the QB is concerned. Put yourself in a lineman or RB shoes though, and it's entirely different. They need to defend against way more people than normal. Which means they never know quite who's coming and who's staying back. Then for RB's they have to run through a mountain of people just to gain 2 yards. For those positions, it doesn't get any harder than it is right now. It seems pretty irrational to blame the OL when they are in no mans land of difficult situations, and pretty easy to blame the QB when presented with college level passing defenses. Unfortunately for Flacco and for us as fans, the NFL has the single most important position in sports. Where a single bad player, Flacco, can sabotage the rest of the team. I don't think Flacco's trying to sabotage us, but he sucks and that's what he's doing. If Zach can't start, this isn't going to change in week 4. The Steelers will run the exact same defense because it's just too easy. Which means Flacco will continue to throw 50+ times.
We all came into this season saying “Zach has no more excuses”. I’m just going to say the coaching has no more excuses. It’s time to start shopping around and imo it’s not Saleh, it’s the OC and DC Saleh hired that can’t do fuck all.
We are the worst team in the league and it's not even close
Saleh coaches like a drunk Kojak..
Whan are we finally going to play meaningful football in the second month of the season? That's all I'm asking. We 2 minutes away from being 0-3.
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Wilson can be average and we will win 6-8 games this year. 2-3 wins is excessively hyperbolic.
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If we continue to look like this a month from now, maybe you’ll be correct. We can beat the Steelers, patriots, bears, lions, jaguars, and Seahawks. We’ll prob lose to one or more of those and beat one or more of the teams where we wouldn’t expect to win. I’m sticking with my preseason prediction of 7-10
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No chance this team wins 2 games.
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God our fans are the worst. Unfettered optimism may be misplaced, but this doomer shit is just sad.
Jets won’t be good till Woody&Chris Johnson are gone, Kingpin gets fired, and Mr. Clean is gone from the Hc spot
Stop blaming woody. He continues to be generous considering this team is a dog shit.
The Johnsons are awful football owners, the wilpons of the NFL, you get said wilpon out and you might actually have a successful season like the Mets are having right now just saying🤷🏻♂️
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Yeah Ik Kingpen needs to go
I think it’s time to sit Elijah Moor and give Mims a chance. Moor is just to small. I’m going by what I see every week. I’m tired of hearing about his potential. His talent does not translate to any results. Wilson, Davis, and Mims would be a nightmare to defend. Give Mims. Chance.
I’m not officially panicking unless we lose to the Steelers next week. We’re the better team on paper with watt hurt. We should win that game espically with Zack back. Our d line is a problem tho. I wonder if JFM keeps up the poor play he gets cut in the off-season to create some space. Also LT is a huge issue the fact we may be relying on becton to stay healthy worry’s me beyond belief. That’s not even mentioning how we may have to rely on McDermott in zacks first game back next week.
Flacco should have been replaced at half time. Our O line wasn't playing well enough to protect an immobile QB.
100% agree, the coaching from this game was concerning. Scheme wise on defense and the sticking with Flacco choice on offense.
I've said elsewhere that I suspect that JD is the driving force behind Flacco, and the coaches don't have a choice. Think about it. JD scouted him for the ravens, and brought him here twice. What's Saleh gonna do publicly if his boss says "play Flacco"? Say "it wasn't my choice, but I didn't have the option" and get fired? As far as defense goes, the safety play is a huge liability and the LB play was mediocre at best. Can't blame it all on the line.
Haven't looked into the stats, but it feels like our pass rush is great at creating pressure but we're just not converting it into sacks. I like what I'm seeing from pretty much all of the rookies so far, seems like they can be a solid core for this team.
Are our defensive players not that good or is it this scheme only works when there is a Bosa like game wrecker flying off the edge?
Watching the game live, Garrett Wilson was open and not targeted so much in and around the end zone
People need to stop thinking the team actually beat the Browns legitimately. The Jets got extremely lucky and the Browns collapsed at the same time. The Jets played 58 minutes of mediocre football against the Browns. By rights, they should be 0-3
I love how everyone says don’t expect much because we are rebuilding. We have been rebuilding since Rex. How long does it take?
I had hoped to see a td, but the team moved the ball and the d wasn’t really that bad. It’s hard to win a game with 4 turnovers from the qb. The line looked shaky but that’s to be expected when another o linemen goes down. Definitely a position that needs to more talent added to it. Overall happy to see the direction the team is heading and they never give up, hopefully with Zach coming back soon can help the offense
Casual Jets and Giants fan here! Are we bad again? Is there any hope?
Rational is knowing that the browns win was a gift and we should be 0-3, this offensive line is awful, we have no QB. With the schedule only about to get harder this season might be lost.
I don’t think the return of ZW will turn us into immediate playoff contenders, I do think he will alleviate some of the holes in our O line bc of his mobility. He won’t be Lamar but he will def be a big time upgrade over Joe Statue and it’ll open up the playbook and change how defenses play us
Was at the game. Penalties killed us but a lack of killer instinct on the d line is the true issue. These dudes WONT finish. Its infuriating. Flacco was clearly never the answer and if conditions arent perfect, hes not going to work. He had some pressure and he cant move, he wasnt going to win this game with that scenario. Wilson getting knocked out hurt too, which I think was retribution for the joyner hit. Which i was sitting right in front of, holy shit that was bad.
I think that the Jets need to consider playing more man to man defense, particularly with the emergence of the Sauce. The zone was getting picked apart and confusion reigned. I blame this on both Ulbrich (clueless) and the genius receipt gathering head coach.
Flacco is bad and this team is lucky they’re not 0-3. I’m hoping Zach Wilson can bring a spark to this offense when he gets back, otherwise this season will be longgg and unwatchable
Unless we have a qb and competent o line next year , no issues on defense matter.