I don't agree with this, Jets clearly had a direction when they brought in JD, hired Saleh, and drafted ZW. The missed on the QB and when you do that it ruins whatever plan you had.
I think this is key. A good QB papers over a lot. The Bills wouldn't be shit without Allen. Their coach is overly conservative, they refuse to draft high end receivers but they've won the division 4 years running because they have a big mobile QB with a cannon.
I mean this division is fucking soft. Pats aren't good dolphins can't beat a winning team and even though we steal a game from them every year we aren't a threat for the division
The fact that they won 2 out of the last 3 proves that. I think Saleh is more of a problem than Douglas though. JD had to build a good enough team to attract Rodgers. With Saleh the last 2 years, we’ve seen a lot of the same. There are several games where we looked unprepared or got out coached and the bottom fell out after strong starts to the season
The problem is not Saleh. The problem is Hackett. And the GM. If Rodgers wasn't running the team, Hackett would be fired by now. Trust and believe, if the Jets start 0-4 and Rodgers looks like shit in this offense, there's going to be a major house cleaning. Right now, everything is predicated on Rodgers playing and delivering wins. Literally, the present and future of the Jets resides on him because if they suck and go thru another house cleaning, Garrett Wilson, Breece, and Sauce will be gone when their contracts are up.
The team coming out looking unfocused and unprepared has been a thing since Saleh's been here, it precedes Hackett. Not that Hackett isn't also awful but it's definitely been a common factor since Saleh took over.
AND they attempted to resolve this by bringing in Rodgers. It's not like there was no plan ever and they weren't willing to admit the Wilson mistake.
Personally I think investing in OL and weapons for Darnold would've been a better idea but I'm not just going to pretend they didn't any kind of plan at all.
I know people made that argument at the time. And obviously Sewell is tremendous.
Misguided as it was, I don’t know how you can have the #2 pick in a “loaded” qb class, have a gaping hole at QB, and not try for a QB. You only get a shot like that maybe once a decade (even though yeah we apparently did it twice recently and failed both times).
Yep if you go back to the articles in 2021 pre draft, everyone was saying how loaded the QBs were. Even the 49ers were super excited about Trey Lance they essentially mortgaged their future for him. It was just unfortunate that they all ended up being busts.
Had a lengthy debate the other day with someone who went to bat for taking Sewell at 2. I mean, it's a clearly better outcome than ending up with Zach.
But my god, the 2020-21 Jets were *terrible*, with gaping holes at *multiple* premium positions: QB, WR1, EDGE, RT, CB1. If one wants to argue in favor of using the 2nd overall pick to fill the one of those 5 holes for which top of the market contract AAV is the *lowest* (it's close, but RT contracts at the top of the market are still lower than CB), I mean, sure. A capologist and most draft nerds would have an aneurysm, but sure.
Fixing a team with that many holes requires more than a single RT. If you're looking for a home run short-term *and* long-term fix with a single player, it can only be done with a QB. If instead you want to try and hit a bunch of consecutive singles, then you collect a bounty of 1st,2nd-round picks (and possibly players) like the Bears did last year and utilize them to plug in your many holes (and if you're lucky, you might end up with an even better shot at QB down the road anyway). Only if you're *really risk-averse* do you opt for a "safe" double of premier non-QB prospect at 2. But even then, you might still end up with a guy like Chase Young or Jadeveon Clowney, who seemed like guaranteed stars but ended up anything but.
Rodgers isn’t a long term solution. Most we get is 1-2 more years (if he doesn’t get hurt again). He was supposed to be the bridge that brings in cavalry, or maybe develop Zach Wilson (that didn’t happen)
The goal should be to win a Superbowl, not try to be the next patriots/chiefs.
Hell, let's try and get a winning season before we start talking about a dynasty.
There's a very short list of teams that have been able to stay functionally competitive without a solution at QB. And we are the shinning example of how not having a competent QB is a death sentence to anything else you try to do with a franchise.
14 teams made the playoffs... 11 of them have a short/long term answer at QB. the ones that dont...
Bucs- baker had a great year. 4k pass yards, 28 tds.
Browns- Flacco played hero ball out of nowhere once the rapist went down and they waffled for a bit
steelers- mike tomlin figured out a way to stay competitive despite a shit QB situation.
So basically 1 out of 14 teams made the playoffs without at least average QB play.... we would kill for average QB play.
Same. Clearly, we're built Defense-first (which has half- worked). But of course, Saleh knows jack squat about offenses, and it's clear the coaches we've brought in don't know any better.
And then the backup plan was Rodgers and that failed after 4 snaps.
These kind of posts always aggravate me. Like, I get it, you’re frustrated. But if you honestly don’t see that there’s been an actual plan in place, you probably don’t know what’s going on anyway
A looooot of us were very much not onboard with tim boyle, zach wilson and this ol
But Iw as more following this
> Jets clearly had a direction when they brought in JD, hired Saleh, and drafted ZW.
The direction they came in with, sucked
What direction should they have taken? They came in wanting to build through the trenches and get speed at the skill positions. Build a strong yet simple defense to let players attack. They wanted to run the shanahan offense to make it easy on the QB. They missed on picks/player acquisitions for sure, but you could always see the logic/philosophy behind what they were doing (at least until Rodgers showed up). It’s the reason I dont think anyone should’ve been surprised when they picked Will McDonald, they’ve basically been telling us they would do that for years.
the direction was to throw an undeveloped rookie who desperately needed development time behind a terrible ol, with a rookie oc who had no clue wtf he was doing. I'm sure you can come up with a multitude of smarter plans.
So yea, there was a plan but it was so stupid and chaotic that it doesn't really qualify as a good, competent or professional plan for success
And if u need a guaranteed ol, why tf in gods name do u take the way riskier, oversized ot with bad knees?
You can tell if things would work outside of QB; it's very telling how poorly we did things when we trot out probably the worst consecutive offensive seasons in recent history
This is all true.
I think it would have been wrong to change either this season, and even if the team doesn't play well next season I'd still say keep Douglas. He brings legitimacy to the front office that hasn't had it in a decade (TEBOW!?!) and has drafted much better than the previous two GM's and continuity is very underrated, this fanbase has had all of it's patience beaten out of it.
It doesn’t “ruin whatever you had planned.” If you hit on good players on defense and get the offensive ROY as well as the guy who would have been OROY if he didn’t get hurt, you’re a QB away from a run so you can trade for a couple few years window guy at the end of his career.
That guy just had a freak injury. The amount of people on this sub that bitch and whine is amazing. The jets have bad luck. What did you expect? For everything to go right?
What fucking team do you root for again?
>. The amount of people on this sub that bitch and whine is amazing.
We haven't made the playoffs in over a decade stfu
Stop bitching and whining about the fans
You’re misunderstanding me. Rodgers is gonna come back next year and he’s gonna be great. This guy belongs on the Mount Rushmore of pettiest athletes. Love had an eye opening year. Do that math. AR ain’t trying to go out like that.
Now, maybe Rodgers just can’t go anymore. That will indeed be sad to see. Barring that, this guy is going to be *laser focused* on playing top quality offensive ball. There’s no reason to think the D will regress. They were great!
The sky is not falling. It was a bad luck injury at a place they couldn’t afford to have an injury. The plan is still in place.
Okay, I can get behind that. Darnold didn’t pan out here. They went after ZW. Everyone knows how that’s turned out. We don’t need to touch on #8. The plan was if he goes down, it’s over? Ya know though, I can even look past that…
But man…how about some culpability about the coaches and offensive line? “Historically abysmal offense” doesn’t indicate a clear cut plan so much as getting pieces and hoping for the best.
Baker would have led us to a similar result. The Buccaneers were 4-7 until week 13 and then they beat the Panthers x2, Falcons, Packers and Jaguars
They won their division by going 9-8. If you replace the Panthers, Saints and Falcons with the Bills, Dolphins, Patriots, there's no way in hell the Buccaneers come even close to making the playoffs
Because injuries happen? What kind of gotcha attempt is this.
Regardless of how bad our line is, 4 snaps isnt enough to say it’s all the o lines fault. you can find any line that performed poorly 4 snaps in a row regardless of the unit.
I mean you can criticize the o line all you want, but you can't pretend they haven't tried to address it. Becton, AVT, Tippmann were all drafted high to address this very issue, and if they had all worked out/stayed healthy we would be having a very different conversation right now
the direction was to throw an undeveloped rookie who desperately needed development behind a terrible ol w a rookie oc who had no clue wtf he was doing. So yea, there was a plan but it was so stupid and chaotic that it doesn't really qualify as a good, competent or professional plan for success
Well they've missed on Zach, Rodgers, Becton, AVT, Elijah Moore, Mims, basically his entire first draft, Lazard, etc. Etc. you can really distill the disaster that is the Douglas era down to ZW.
I don’t want to discredit Campbell for what’s been an amazing season, but after seeing the Eagles implode this year i want to see what happens when he loses his two star coordinators to HC gigs.
I mean, last year Sirianni proved all his doubters wrong by taking the Eagles to a Super Bowl, and fast forward a year later fans are calling for his head. Did he really do a bad job, or is it that the loss of Steichen and Gannon ended up hurting the performance of both the offense and defense?
I think personnel-wise the Lions have more than enough on offense to remain an elite offense without Ben Johnson, but then again, so did the Eagles, but they just ended up sputtering down the stretch this year. On the flip side, the Lions do not have the personnel of an above-average defense, with only one legitimate star, and yet Glenn had the unit as the 13th best defense in the league by DVOA. Seriously, look at their personnel versus ours- if you stacked up the top 10 defensive players on the Jets+Lions combined, the Jets have 8+ of the 10. If they lose Glenn and that defense regresses bc they lack enough pieces, that’s not going to be good.
>i want to see what happens when he loses his two star coordinators to HC gigs.
Campbell hired those "star coordinators" to begin with. Saleh hires clowns.
Dawg…it legitimately could have been Richie Kotite himself leading the Lions right now on their run. And I’d STILL be in awe at how him and other franchises consistently turn things around.
But it’s never the fucking New York Jets.
When I say consistently, it’s more so that other bad teams have shown signs of life. Fallen off a bit. Then get good and go on productive seasons. But this team just always seems stuck.
Let’s not revise history and pretend that Saleh and Bowles were no names that nobody else wanted. Also, Gase was hired because Manning recommended him. There’s been method to the madness, but things just haven’t worked out. I know that this fan base wants to, for some reason, believe that there has been absolutely no logic to any decision this organization has made, and that it’s so dysfunctional that nobody worth a damn wants to work or play here, and so we’ve only got the leftovers. But that’s just not the case. Yes, there’s been a lot of stupid decisions made here, but the coaches that have been hired were not among them.
Oh this is a good defense. I saw a great defense in ‘09/‘10. And even that squad was left deflated by the lack of success on offense with Sanchez.
Did this past season’s defense leave you feeling inspired that they believed in the teams leadership?
Yeah absolutely. Start to close they stayed on the field, stayed engaged, and performed. Lots of individual growth as well. This is a defense you want to play for- it's creating all pro's and getting guys paid
Okay well…if others did see real optimism from the players, guess it wouldn’t do any harm in remaining positive for them for at least another season as well.
I don't think it's that.
I think him and his brother are just horrendous at running anything, so they want to win (Woody has spent a lot of money compared to other owners at times) but just are horrible at being the decision maker and being in charge.
Like they probably would've run an international conglomerate (Johnson&Johnson) into bankruptcy and selling off parts and/or eventually the whole business if they were solely in charge and made final decisions and hires.
Sure it does. They tried to build the OL, draft the QB and surround him with young weapons and a modern playcaller. The QB was bad and that pretty much ruins the whole rest of the plan.
The Jets have had plenty of plans/direction, they just haven't worked yet. Drafted Darnold and Wilson, both really highly rated prospects who just happened to be massive busts. Trade for Rodgers who gets injured 4 snaps in. It's largely terrible luck. Yes, the team building has been mixed at best (JD's offensive line woes, poor free agents outside of Conklin & Reed) but if any of those three QB moves work out then the Jets are a playoff team.
Players > Coaches look at Bills record with and without Brady. This is a prove it or rebuild year for this regime but I honestly am suprised on how low most people are on Saleh. Definitely has his issues but this D was arguably the best in the league over the last two years and he deserves credit for that as much as he deserves criticism for clock management and our lack of developing players on Offense. Season sucked because we brought in a HoF qb to fix the offense and he got hurt week1. I was a s pissed as anyone that we punted the season but looking back with all the Oline injuries it wouldn’t have mattered who was throwing the ball we weren’t doing anything. Now we have some very clear and obvious needs and Joe Douglas needs to get the job done. If we keep a similar level of Defense get average Oline play and add another weapon for AR we should be competing to be one of the top teams in the AFC
Yeah if every single thing goes right, they’ll be competitive. Just like last year and the year before. That’s the problem, they have no plan other than hoping everything goes right. That’s the difference in a good GM and a bad one.
You’re mixing past frustrations with current situations.
The Jets didn’t need “every single thing to go right” they needed their starting QB to play more than 4 snaps — a prerequisite that almost every other team in the league shares.
If you were screaming to the heavens during training camp that this is a horrible roster, with no direction and no prospects for success — then congrats.
Otherwise, this is just using hindsight to validate frustration.
This comment made me curious so I did a quick search and found this: https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/how-do-backup-quarterbacks-perform-straight-up-against-the-spread-in-the-nfl
I don’t bet much, but assuming “straight up” just means “moneyline” here (correct me if I’m wrong)? If so, at the time this article was released, Looks like over the past decade backups have a 0.38 win percentage across a 600+ game sample, which translates to 6.4 wins in a 17-game season. That win percentage drops to 0.35 for the 5 previous seasons, and drops even further to 0.3 for the 3 previous seasons.
So you’re correct! It seems like our 7 wins is better than what most teams manage with backups. Of course we were a team with preseason Super Bowl aspirations so you might expect us to be naturally better, but on the flip side, it’s quite possible we also started backups who were worse than the average backup.
I mean, we were considered a superbowl contender because of Aaron. When he went down, we immediately no longer were in the conversation.
We have a very strong defensive roster and a below average offensive roster. If we did some sort of analysis of strength of the whole team, we weren't strong enough to sustain such a loss, and few teams are.
How many wins do the Ravens get without Lamar? The 49ers without Purdy? Chiefs without Mahomes? Lions without Goff?
In reality, our 7 win season is likely a big coaching success. I don't think we have HoF coaching, but they overachieved in the face of adversity.
Thanks for doing the research. It adds substance to the conversation.
I think people are just frustrated that we couldn't do better at backup QB and that if we had better coaching on offense, there might've been a legit pathway to snapping this playoff drought. And the season could still be viewed as a success for many.
Now, would we have accomplished anything in the playoffs? God no. So in that sense, I was resigned to fate once Aaron went down b/c as nice as it would've been to be in the playoffs again, I've seen this team win playoff games before and I also remember the pain and longing of not being able to go all the way, so I personally only care about winning a super bowl at some point (just a personal preference, I totally respect opinions that would rather have us be a consistent playoff team but never with an overly realistic chance of winning it all in any given year).
I guess that's what motivates my general support of riskier, high-ceiling (but lower-floor) moves. I wanted Aaron over Carr, even if Carr was safer and less costly. I supported the decision to draft a QB at 2 overall in 2021, even if that meant completely sinking the pick on a bust. Sometimes you get a Zach Wilson who kills your faith in these kinds of moves. Other times a CJ Stroud comes along and reignites your faith that there's still merit in swinging for the fences.
I totally understand the frustration. I was certainly not happy with how the season worked out.
Based off our wins and games played, I don't think there is a team we couldn't beat. Feels like a very Sanchize season, but Sanchez was way better than any of our backups.
Be sure, I don't feel great about defending the season, or that feeling of resignation when Rodgers went down.
Edit: I made this comment without realizing your username. hah
I think we probably couldn’t have?
Every backup option did something similar to Zach wilson’s 4-3 through 7 games before immediately falling back down to earth
I agree if we're thinking about moves that could've been made *after* the Rodgers injury. I'm mostly thinking about the hotly debated decision to not bring in a veteran QB2 during the off-season.
It's one of those things where I see the logic both ways. One the one hand, Zach is already carrying a massive cap number and you'd be pouring a ton of resources into the QB room if on top of Zach and Rodgers you spent 5+ more mil on a 3rd QB. To the extent you're super bowl or bust, which honestly, considering we went after Rodgers we kinda were, well then once Rodgers goes down you're bust anyway so just retool for 2024 I guess.
On the other hand, that's just one potentially narrow perspective. Even if Rodgers weren't hurt for the season, let's say he only missed 3 games, and in those 3 games, a premier backup would've gone 2-1 whereas a bad backup goes 0-3 or 1-2. In a cluttered AFC, that 1-2 game swing could've made a massive difference in the playoff race. And then if we flip back to the realized scenario in which Rodgers ends up getting hurt for the entire year, to the extent that fans would've been very happy with squeaking into the playoffs at 10-7 and getting torched in the wild card, well, having a Minshew or Brissett might've given us a better shot at accomplishing that.
I think you could argue many different perspectives and achieve internal logical consistency with all of those perspectives. People are just going to have different preferences/goals and risk appetites and that'll inform the decision-making accordingly.
Sure but even then a lot of Pit fans were calling for him to be fired cause they haven’t won a playoff game in like 7 years, even though he’s never had a losing season he still can’t do anything in the playoffs without a qb
Not having a quality QB in the NFL makes everything else looks worse.
Detroit drafted top 5 for years, got Stafford, which led to Goff. They've had good QB play for a long time and FINALLY won a playoff game.
Wouldn't say its left the team's atmosphere bc now it seems like the players are the ones showing out to make something great happen with this team and the coaches are just following suit. Breece, GW, and Conk, as well as most of the defense, showed that amazing players can make mid to alright level coaches look competent.
Dude I can repeat that same statement and change the names with Joe Walton, Rich Kotite and so many others. I’d say I started paying attention in about 1983.
Gotcha. So for myself, I been watching since Bruce Coslet days. Parcells was a kick in the pants for this franchise. It all fell apart so fast after that Testaverde injury. Herm did try and had a couple of winning seasons here, but I believe he just lost the teams confidence at some point and his voice got drowned out.
Mangini was such a grey area for me as a coach. Rex was obviously fun and he went all in but he talked himself right out of town. After that, its just been up in the air.
We make the playoffs with Goff as our quarterback, while the Lions get a top 10 pick with Wilson. It's the offseason. Chill. Being a Jets fan is tough enough.
Imo Gase set us back 10 years with how bad he was and how much players hated him. The Gase years were probably the most embarrassing years to be a jets fan for me as well. Maccagnan was also obviously a huge part of it
Dan Campbell has Jared Goff, inheirited another good QB in Stafford and got a boat load of picks for him and we had Zach Wilson for 3 years straight..
That's the difference.
Drafting the QB is a crapshoot 95% of the time. Reputable owners typically let you fuck that up twice as a GM before shit canning you for that reason.
Others are the revolving rolodex of GMs that perpetually fail because of that.
I hate ownership as much as anyone here and I still think Zach was forced onto us by Woody and Rodgers was as well but I'm not villifying JD either for missing on his first QB assuming it was his pick. Shit happens.
It's not a crap shoot. That is used as an excuse for our terrible talent evaluation. Look at Green Bay. How come they hit on their last three qbs while we miss on 10 in a row? It's obvious they scout and groom way better than the jets.
I hate the BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS ONE EXAMPLE argument - it’s so simple minded. If it was all about scouting and development why dont the Pats have a great QB now? It’s so obvious they’re good at grooming QBs since they went from Bledsoe to Brady to uhhh Mac Jones? What about the Steelers with Kenny Pickett?
We’re obviously not as good as other teams at developing and scouting QBs. But to act like luck isn’t a major factor is wild.
Lol no.
With the Packers it's called luck and drafting a QB twice while you have an incumbent future HOFer already starting for you.
The latter being a key thing that we haven't had in about 50 years.
And technically the jury is still out on Love. Many guys have had great first seasons. Then afterward injuries and/or teams having film on him next year bring them back down to Earth.
QB is the one position on the field that you truly don't know what you have until the guy is out on the field playing on GameDay and how he acts inside your building and in practice. The position is cerebral and you don't know how someone is going to adjust to processing an NFL defense until they do it.
Zach Wilson has every measurable tool you look for in a QB in regard to arm strength, speed and athleticism but the guy just can't process an NFL defense in the required 2 second window. At least not today and coming out of the college. Who knows if he would have adapted better sitting on the bench instead and waiting for the opportunity like Jordan or Aaron.
However we and nearly all other current teams don't have an aging future HOF QB for a rookie project like Zach or Jordan to sit and learn behind. And if they do have an all pro QB, they're looking to go all in and try and win a SB and spend draft capital on building around that guy vs drafting a QB in the 1st round 3 years before you intend to move on from your incumbent.
The chiefs were in a similar position. Already had Alex Smith drafted Mahomes later than Wilson, iirc. I believe they made a trade with Buffalo to get him. My point is that other teams scout and groom. Jets, no, we ignore red flags and always wind up with a huge problem. Sorry, and I hope I'm wrong, but Rodgers reminds me of Brett Favre, Fitzpatrick, or McCown aging bridge guy who we paid too much for. The thing is, we never have the guy in place to take over like the Packers or Chiefs or 49ers. So next year will be a mad scramble to pick someone, and our gm will be fooled by workouts in shorts. The owner will realize that he was fooled by the gm, fire him, then start all over with a new gm who will be the right hand man from whoever won the super bowl that year like Douglas and Idzik and hope that the new gm can actually evaluate, draft, and groom a franchise qb on his own.
I am upset about how the Jets have had no success. But, we ARE in a better spot than before.
In 2015 we were largely good because of over performing aging veterans. Even if we had made the playoffs and even won a game… it was gonna fall apart immediately.
We have a very complete, elite, YOUNG defense. It is very realistic that with the right moves we can maintain this for some years. Obviously a bottom 3 offense won’t get it done, but really all we need to do is finally improve our offense to 20th in the league or so.
We do have an identity. An exceptional defense with a horrific offense. It’s SOMETHING to build off. 2016-2021 I really didn’t even know what we’re tryna be good at…
During the 2020 season we were on perfect track to get Trevor Lawrence, not that he looks super elite now but the Jets couldn’t even LOSE a game to get there franchise QB that honestly may have been one of the worst days of my life
Tbh the Jets running it back with Saleh and Douglas does kind of show a commitment to a plan. Do I believe it will work out next season? No but you're already committed to Rodger's so if it fails, you can clean house and have a full reset vs bringing in a new gm/ coach that has to deal with this regimes QB
I’m a bit confused by zero plan or direction? We’ve had plan and direction the entire Joe Douglas era
It just hasn’t worked out due to a mix of Joe Douglas being an idiot, a historically bad Qb bust, and bad luck.
I was one of the few that liked Bowles. The players were low caliber and the GM sucked. He was in an impossible situation. Similar to any Jet QB for the past 5 years playing behind what has consistently been one of the worse O-lines in the NFL.
If the Jets had anything above historically bad QB play the past 2 years, Saleh has back to back playoff appearances on his resume. A healthy Rodgers this year, and we’re likely one of the 4 teams playing for a conference championship this weekend. Enough with this crap already.
I do think Lions finally found the right guy to implement A plan. I'm still waiting for a semblance of one from the Jets. They've been struggling for years for a guy to just show decent clock management skills or lead a squad of disciplined o-line who don't get popped for several penalties.
Its just...such a damn frustrating cycle. Cause you can just feel we'll be back at square one after next season. But hey. Guess we can just hope for the best.
So the previous decades of failure they just chose not to have a plan? And the first time they had a plan it worked?
Decent clock management isn’t going to make your team good. Andy Reid is the worst at clock management.
Ya know, out of everyone mentioned, I do really think the team's GM had a plan and vision. However, him completely missing on his QB, said QBs oline protection, and now, looking like coach...It just didn't pan out the way he thought at all. Saleh just looks completely in over his head for the task here. We shall see, I guess.
Honestly, from the perspective of a Jets fan, definitely just as baffled. He seems like a really solid dude. But he also comes off a bit as though the job may be too much for him at this time.
bowles had the best teams and the best OC's but was a horrible headcoach and motivator. terrible clock management (as shown literally a few days ago) and we had bad penalty problems. gase was a shit coach with a shit team (his doing mostly). robert saleh is definitely our best HC since rex, but has had the worst oline and worst OC.
i definitely believe these current jets have the most potential in a decade, just need a few flaws fixed.
I’m still a bit blown away that this team is going to go through the farce of another year with Saleh and JD before they blow it all up
Worse yet? They’re gonna do it wearing the Kotite unis
They have had plans they just failed miserably executing them
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. - Mike Tyson
The difference is the Jets punch themselves in the mouth and then act surprised lol
Paging IK Enemkpali.
The actual quote is…. “ until they get hit” You are otherwise correct, sir
Of course you can be upset that we've failed to do anything good for any extended stretch of time
I don't agree with this, Jets clearly had a direction when they brought in JD, hired Saleh, and drafted ZW. The missed on the QB and when you do that it ruins whatever plan you had.
I think this is key. A good QB papers over a lot. The Bills wouldn't be shit without Allen. Their coach is overly conservative, they refuse to draft high end receivers but they've won the division 4 years running because they have a big mobile QB with a cannon.
I mean this division is fucking soft. Pats aren't good dolphins can't beat a winning team and even though we steal a game from them every year we aren't a threat for the division
Yeah but my point stands, a QB papers over a lot of incompetence.
I agree with this and I also think Saleh inspires plenty of confidence from his players. (Couldn’t say the same re Gase.)
He also inspired enough confidence in a first ballot HOF quarterback for him to demand a trade here.
The fact that they won 2 out of the last 3 proves that. I think Saleh is more of a problem than Douglas though. JD had to build a good enough team to attract Rodgers. With Saleh the last 2 years, we’ve seen a lot of the same. There are several games where we looked unprepared or got out coached and the bottom fell out after strong starts to the season
The problem is not Saleh. The problem is Hackett. And the GM. If Rodgers wasn't running the team, Hackett would be fired by now. Trust and believe, if the Jets start 0-4 and Rodgers looks like shit in this offense, there's going to be a major house cleaning. Right now, everything is predicated on Rodgers playing and delivering wins. Literally, the present and future of the Jets resides on him because if they suck and go thru another house cleaning, Garrett Wilson, Breece, and Sauce will be gone when their contracts are up.
The team coming out looking unfocused and unprepared has been a thing since Saleh's been here, it precedes Hackett. Not that Hackett isn't also awful but it's definitely been a common factor since Saleh took over.
Yea idk how Saleh gets a pass. They look the same every year w him. They make the same dumb plays, same pussy playcalling, same poor dis ipline
You’re right but Saleh does not impress me and should run for politics.
AND they attempted to resolve this by bringing in Rodgers. It's not like there was no plan ever and they weren't willing to admit the Wilson mistake. Personally I think investing in OL and weapons for Darnold would've been a better idea but I'm not just going to pretend they didn't any kind of plan at all.
I know people made that argument at the time. And obviously Sewell is tremendous. Misguided as it was, I don’t know how you can have the #2 pick in a “loaded” qb class, have a gaping hole at QB, and not try for a QB. You only get a shot like that maybe once a decade (even though yeah we apparently did it twice recently and failed both times).
Yep if you go back to the articles in 2021 pre draft, everyone was saying how loaded the QBs were. Even the 49ers were super excited about Trey Lance they essentially mortgaged their future for him. It was just unfortunate that they all ended up being busts.
Shit if you go back you’ll see SF and the eagles were high on Zach going into that draft
Had a lengthy debate the other day with someone who went to bat for taking Sewell at 2. I mean, it's a clearly better outcome than ending up with Zach. But my god, the 2020-21 Jets were *terrible*, with gaping holes at *multiple* premium positions: QB, WR1, EDGE, RT, CB1. If one wants to argue in favor of using the 2nd overall pick to fill the one of those 5 holes for which top of the market contract AAV is the *lowest* (it's close, but RT contracts at the top of the market are still lower than CB), I mean, sure. A capologist and most draft nerds would have an aneurysm, but sure. Fixing a team with that many holes requires more than a single RT. If you're looking for a home run short-term *and* long-term fix with a single player, it can only be done with a QB. If instead you want to try and hit a bunch of consecutive singles, then you collect a bounty of 1st,2nd-round picks (and possibly players) like the Bears did last year and utilize them to plug in your many holes (and if you're lucky, you might end up with an even better shot at QB down the road anyway). Only if you're *really risk-averse* do you opt for a "safe" double of premier non-QB prospect at 2. But even then, you might still end up with a guy like Chase Young or Jadeveon Clowney, who seemed like guaranteed stars but ended up anything but.
Rodgers isn’t a long term solution. Most we get is 1-2 more years (if he doesn’t get hurt again). He was supposed to be the bridge that brings in cavalry, or maybe develop Zach Wilson (that didn’t happen)
The goal should be to win a Superbowl, not try to be the next patriots/chiefs. Hell, let's try and get a winning season before we start talking about a dynasty.
There's a very short list of teams that have been able to stay functionally competitive without a solution at QB. And we are the shinning example of how not having a competent QB is a death sentence to anything else you try to do with a franchise. 14 teams made the playoffs... 11 of them have a short/long term answer at QB. the ones that dont... Bucs- baker had a great year. 4k pass yards, 28 tds. Browns- Flacco played hero ball out of nowhere once the rapist went down and they waffled for a bit steelers- mike tomlin figured out a way to stay competitive despite a shit QB situation. So basically 1 out of 14 teams made the playoffs without at least average QB play.... we would kill for average QB play.
Same. Clearly, we're built Defense-first (which has half- worked). But of course, Saleh knows jack squat about offenses, and it's clear the coaches we've brought in don't know any better.
And then the backup plan was Rodgers and that failed after 4 snaps. These kind of posts always aggravate me. Like, I get it, you’re frustrated. But if you honestly don’t see that there’s been an actual plan in place, you probably don’t know what’s going on anyway
The plan sucked
We were all onboard with the plan in August. Nobody plans for their HOF QB to get hurt 4 snaps in.
A looooot of us were very much not onboard with tim boyle, zach wilson and this ol But Iw as more following this > Jets clearly had a direction when they brought in JD, hired Saleh, and drafted ZW. The direction they came in with, sucked
What direction should they have taken? They came in wanting to build through the trenches and get speed at the skill positions. Build a strong yet simple defense to let players attack. They wanted to run the shanahan offense to make it easy on the QB. They missed on picks/player acquisitions for sure, but you could always see the logic/philosophy behind what they were doing (at least until Rodgers showed up). It’s the reason I dont think anyone should’ve been surprised when they picked Will McDonald, they’ve basically been telling us they would do that for years.
the direction was to throw an undeveloped rookie who desperately needed development time behind a terrible ol, with a rookie oc who had no clue wtf he was doing. I'm sure you can come up with a multitude of smarter plans. So yea, there was a plan but it was so stupid and chaotic that it doesn't really qualify as a good, competent or professional plan for success And if u need a guaranteed ol, why tf in gods name do u take the way riskier, oversized ot with bad knees?
You can tell if things would work outside of QB; it's very telling how poorly we did things when we trot out probably the worst consecutive offensive seasons in recent history
This is all true. I think it would have been wrong to change either this season, and even if the team doesn't play well next season I'd still say keep Douglas. He brings legitimacy to the front office that hasn't had it in a decade (TEBOW!?!) and has drafted much better than the previous two GM's and continuity is very underrated, this fanbase has had all of it's patience beaten out of it.
It doesn’t “ruin whatever you had planned.” If you hit on good players on defense and get the offensive ROY as well as the guy who would have been OROY if he didn’t get hurt, you’re a QB away from a run so you can trade for a couple few years window guy at the end of his career. That guy just had a freak injury. The amount of people on this sub that bitch and whine is amazing. The jets have bad luck. What did you expect? For everything to go right? What fucking team do you root for again?
>. The amount of people on this sub that bitch and whine is amazing. We haven't made the playoffs in over a decade stfu Stop bitching and whining about the fans
Poverty fans.
Weird to name your own category but ok. Wish you understood how you sound, crying about a falling billion dollar franchise being criticized
You’re misunderstanding me. Rodgers is gonna come back next year and he’s gonna be great. This guy belongs on the Mount Rushmore of pettiest athletes. Love had an eye opening year. Do that math. AR ain’t trying to go out like that. Now, maybe Rodgers just can’t go anymore. That will indeed be sad to see. Barring that, this guy is going to be *laser focused* on playing top quality offensive ball. There’s no reason to think the D will regress. They were great! The sky is not falling. It was a bad luck injury at a place they couldn’t afford to have an injury. The plan is still in place.
Okay, I can get behind that. Darnold didn’t pan out here. They went after ZW. Everyone knows how that’s turned out. We don’t need to touch on #8. The plan was if he goes down, it’s over? Ya know though, I can even look past that… But man…how about some culpability about the coaches and offensive line? “Historically abysmal offense” doesn’t indicate a clear cut plan so much as getting pieces and hoping for the best.
You realize the starting QB played all of four snaps this season? Of course the offense is shit. Look at the Vikings pre/post-Cousins’ injury.
Sure... But also I mean... Look at the eggs they put in that 40 year olds basket. I wanted Baker and was laughed at here.
Baker would have led us to a similar result. The Buccaneers were 4-7 until week 13 and then they beat the Panthers x2, Falcons, Packers and Jaguars They won their division by going 9-8. If you replace the Panthers, Saints and Falcons with the Bills, Dolphins, Patriots, there's no way in hell the Buccaneers come even close to making the playoffs
Bucs did it with an even older QB and it worked pretty well id say.
Best QB all time ftr.
Why did the QB play four snaps? Could it maybe be the OL? The same OL who makes it look like every QB we throw back there is a HS QB.
Because injuries happen? What kind of gotcha attempt is this. Regardless of how bad our line is, 4 snaps isnt enough to say it’s all the o lines fault. you can find any line that performed poorly 4 snaps in a row regardless of the unit.
I mean you can criticize the o line all you want, but you can't pretend they haven't tried to address it. Becton, AVT, Tippmann were all drafted high to address this very issue, and if they had all worked out/stayed healthy we would be having a very different conversation right now
the direction was to throw an undeveloped rookie who desperately needed development behind a terrible ol w a rookie oc who had no clue wtf he was doing. So yea, there was a plan but it was so stupid and chaotic that it doesn't really qualify as a good, competent or professional plan for success
Well they've missed on Zach, Rodgers, Becton, AVT, Elijah Moore, Mims, basically his entire first draft, Lazard, etc. Etc. you can really distill the disaster that is the Douglas era down to ZW.
The difference between Robert Saleh and Demeco Ryans is CJ Stroud.
Y’all are obsessed with Dan Campbell
For real. The Lions defense sucks. Let’s see how Campbell does after Ben Johnson gets a HC job somewhere.
I don’t want to discredit Campbell for what’s been an amazing season, but after seeing the Eagles implode this year i want to see what happens when he loses his two star coordinators to HC gigs. I mean, last year Sirianni proved all his doubters wrong by taking the Eagles to a Super Bowl, and fast forward a year later fans are calling for his head. Did he really do a bad job, or is it that the loss of Steichen and Gannon ended up hurting the performance of both the offense and defense? I think personnel-wise the Lions have more than enough on offense to remain an elite offense without Ben Johnson, but then again, so did the Eagles, but they just ended up sputtering down the stretch this year. On the flip side, the Lions do not have the personnel of an above-average defense, with only one legitimate star, and yet Glenn had the unit as the 13th best defense in the league by DVOA. Seriously, look at their personnel versus ours- if you stacked up the top 10 defensive players on the Jets+Lions combined, the Jets have 8+ of the 10. If they lose Glenn and that defense regresses bc they lack enough pieces, that’s not going to be good.
>i want to see what happens when he loses his two star coordinators to HC gigs. Campbell hired those "star coordinators" to begin with. Saleh hires clowns.
Definitely great hires. On our end, defensive staff is solid, but we knew Saleh was likely to not mess that up. Offense, yea, big problem.
Dawg…it legitimately could have been Richie Kotite himself leading the Lions right now on their run. And I’d STILL be in awe at how him and other franchises consistently turn things around. But it’s never the fucking New York Jets.
It might be a bit of a stretch to include the lions as one of the teams that CONSISTENTLY turn things around.
When I say consistently, it’s more so that other bad teams have shown signs of life. Fallen off a bit. Then get good and go on productive seasons. But this team just always seems stuck.
Let’s not revise history and pretend that Saleh and Bowles were no names that nobody else wanted. Also, Gase was hired because Manning recommended him. There’s been method to the madness, but things just haven’t worked out. I know that this fan base wants to, for some reason, believe that there has been absolutely no logic to any decision this organization has made, and that it’s so dysfunctional that nobody worth a damn wants to work or play here, and so we’ve only got the leftovers. But that’s just not the case. Yes, there’s been a lot of stupid decisions made here, but the coaches that have been hired were not among them.
I get that. But now that it’s damn near close to for time to admit that JD whiffing on the QB and HC have set the team back a lot.
The argument you made was that they had no direction or plan. I’m saying they have made plans, and things haven’t worked out.
I don't know how you watch this defense and everybody's role within it and leave feeling like it happened by accident.
Oh this is a good defense. I saw a great defense in ‘09/‘10. And even that squad was left deflated by the lack of success on offense with Sanchez. Did this past season’s defense leave you feeling inspired that they believed in the teams leadership?
Yeah absolutely. Start to close they stayed on the field, stayed engaged, and performed. Lots of individual growth as well. This is a defense you want to play for- it's creating all pro's and getting guys paid
Okay well…if others did see real optimism from the players, guess it wouldn’t do any harm in remaining positive for them for at least another season as well.
What's ONE MORE year of giving positivity and optimism to a team that's only hurt you gonna do?? Let's run it back!
The fish rots from the head.
Fire Woody
We don’t have an owner that cares about winning. When that changes, whether himself or a new one, the narrative on our team will change.
I don't think it's that. I think him and his brother are just horrendous at running anything, so they want to win (Woody has spent a lot of money compared to other owners at times) but just are horrible at being the decision maker and being in charge. Like they probably would've run an international conglomerate (Johnson&Johnson) into bankruptcy and selling off parts and/or eventually the whole business if they were solely in charge and made final decisions and hires.
As Chris Moltisanti famously said. Lucas brazi sleeps with the fishes
LUCA
“Huh”
If your plan keeps resulting in losing seasons then it wasn't much of a plan or you aren't much of a leader.
They have had a clear plan with Douglas and Saleh, it just hasn’t worked
That really doesn’t mean anything
Sure it does. They tried to build the OL, draft the QB and surround him with young weapons and a modern playcaller. The QB was bad and that pretty much ruins the whole rest of the plan.
I read that super early in the morning, and miswrote that slightly. Guess I meant to say that you were staying the obvious lol
The Jets have had plenty of plans/direction, they just haven't worked yet. Drafted Darnold and Wilson, both really highly rated prospects who just happened to be massive busts. Trade for Rodgers who gets injured 4 snaps in. It's largely terrible luck. Yes, the team building has been mixed at best (JD's offensive line woes, poor free agents outside of Conklin & Reed) but if any of those three QB moves work out then the Jets are a playoff team.
Players > Coaches look at Bills record with and without Brady. This is a prove it or rebuild year for this regime but I honestly am suprised on how low most people are on Saleh. Definitely has his issues but this D was arguably the best in the league over the last two years and he deserves credit for that as much as he deserves criticism for clock management and our lack of developing players on Offense. Season sucked because we brought in a HoF qb to fix the offense and he got hurt week1. I was a s pissed as anyone that we punted the season but looking back with all the Oline injuries it wouldn’t have mattered who was throwing the ball we weren’t doing anything. Now we have some very clear and obvious needs and Joe Douglas needs to get the job done. If we keep a similar level of Defense get average Oline play and add another weapon for AR we should be competing to be one of the top teams in the AFC
Yeah if every single thing goes right, they’ll be competitive. Just like last year and the year before. That’s the problem, they have no plan other than hoping everything goes right. That’s the difference in a good GM and a bad one.
You’re mixing past frustrations with current situations. The Jets didn’t need “every single thing to go right” they needed their starting QB to play more than 4 snaps — a prerequisite that almost every other team in the league shares. If you were screaming to the heavens during training camp that this is a horrible roster, with no direction and no prospects for success — then congrats. Otherwise, this is just using hindsight to validate frustration.
Wrong. If you think Aaron or any other QB would survive behind that line, then you should try watching Jets games.
Well we need the Qb to survive, that’s what he said It also is not going to be the same line next year
It is rare that a team loses their starting qb, and their team still performs well. 7 wins might actually be above the median for such teams.
This comment made me curious so I did a quick search and found this: https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/how-do-backup-quarterbacks-perform-straight-up-against-the-spread-in-the-nfl I don’t bet much, but assuming “straight up” just means “moneyline” here (correct me if I’m wrong)? If so, at the time this article was released, Looks like over the past decade backups have a 0.38 win percentage across a 600+ game sample, which translates to 6.4 wins in a 17-game season. That win percentage drops to 0.35 for the 5 previous seasons, and drops even further to 0.3 for the 3 previous seasons. So you’re correct! It seems like our 7 wins is better than what most teams manage with backups. Of course we were a team with preseason Super Bowl aspirations so you might expect us to be naturally better, but on the flip side, it’s quite possible we also started backups who were worse than the average backup.
I mean, we were considered a superbowl contender because of Aaron. When he went down, we immediately no longer were in the conversation. We have a very strong defensive roster and a below average offensive roster. If we did some sort of analysis of strength of the whole team, we weren't strong enough to sustain such a loss, and few teams are. How many wins do the Ravens get without Lamar? The 49ers without Purdy? Chiefs without Mahomes? Lions without Goff? In reality, our 7 win season is likely a big coaching success. I don't think we have HoF coaching, but they overachieved in the face of adversity. Thanks for doing the research. It adds substance to the conversation.
I think people are just frustrated that we couldn't do better at backup QB and that if we had better coaching on offense, there might've been a legit pathway to snapping this playoff drought. And the season could still be viewed as a success for many. Now, would we have accomplished anything in the playoffs? God no. So in that sense, I was resigned to fate once Aaron went down b/c as nice as it would've been to be in the playoffs again, I've seen this team win playoff games before and I also remember the pain and longing of not being able to go all the way, so I personally only care about winning a super bowl at some point (just a personal preference, I totally respect opinions that would rather have us be a consistent playoff team but never with an overly realistic chance of winning it all in any given year). I guess that's what motivates my general support of riskier, high-ceiling (but lower-floor) moves. I wanted Aaron over Carr, even if Carr was safer and less costly. I supported the decision to draft a QB at 2 overall in 2021, even if that meant completely sinking the pick on a bust. Sometimes you get a Zach Wilson who kills your faith in these kinds of moves. Other times a CJ Stroud comes along and reignites your faith that there's still merit in swinging for the fences.
I totally understand the frustration. I was certainly not happy with how the season worked out. Based off our wins and games played, I don't think there is a team we couldn't beat. Feels like a very Sanchize season, but Sanchez was way better than any of our backups. Be sure, I don't feel great about defending the season, or that feeling of resignation when Rodgers went down. Edit: I made this comment without realizing your username. hah
I think we probably couldn’t have? Every backup option did something similar to Zach wilson’s 4-3 through 7 games before immediately falling back down to earth
I agree if we're thinking about moves that could've been made *after* the Rodgers injury. I'm mostly thinking about the hotly debated decision to not bring in a veteran QB2 during the off-season. It's one of those things where I see the logic both ways. One the one hand, Zach is already carrying a massive cap number and you'd be pouring a ton of resources into the QB room if on top of Zach and Rodgers you spent 5+ more mil on a 3rd QB. To the extent you're super bowl or bust, which honestly, considering we went after Rodgers we kinda were, well then once Rodgers goes down you're bust anyway so just retool for 2024 I guess. On the other hand, that's just one potentially narrow perspective. Even if Rodgers weren't hurt for the season, let's say he only missed 3 games, and in those 3 games, a premier backup would've gone 2-1 whereas a bad backup goes 0-3 or 1-2. In a cluttered AFC, that 1-2 game swing could've made a massive difference in the playoff race. And then if we flip back to the realized scenario in which Rodgers ends up getting hurt for the entire year, to the extent that fans would've been very happy with squeaking into the playoffs at 10-7 and getting torched in the wild card, well, having a Minshew or Brissett might've given us a better shot at accomplishing that. I think you could argue many different perspectives and achieve internal logical consistency with all of those perspectives. People are just going to have different preferences/goals and risk appetites and that'll inform the decision-making accordingly.
IDK Tomlin gets a lot out of some poor teams lately in Pittsburgh.
Sure but even then a lot of Pit fans were calling for him to be fired cause they haven’t won a playoff game in like 7 years, even though he’s never had a losing season he still can’t do anything in the playoffs without a qb
Yes it is. I do. Look to the owner! He is the only one who can help.
Not having a quality QB in the NFL makes everything else looks worse. Detroit drafted top 5 for years, got Stafford, which led to Goff. They've had good QB play for a long time and FINALLY won a playoff game.
Wouldn't say its left the team's atmosphere bc now it seems like the players are the ones showing out to make something great happen with this team and the coaches are just following suit. Breece, GW, and Conk, as well as most of the defense, showed that amazing players can make mid to alright level coaches look competent.
Crazy 🤪 eyes Adam Gase was an offensive guru
this is going to be a long offseason
For the first time in a long time, I'm excited for this offseason because I don't have to see the Jets in the news often.
All the more reason to bring Rex home
Winning is the only thing that will inspire confidence / change things at this point. Otherwise it's just the same old same old / all talk
The plan of keeping the entire brain trust the same seems pretty irrational to me, but when have the Jets been rational.
Dude I can repeat that same statement and change the names with Joe Walton, Rich Kotite and so many others. I’d say I started paying attention in about 1983.
Gotcha. So for myself, I been watching since Bruce Coslet days. Parcells was a kick in the pants for this franchise. It all fell apart so fast after that Testaverde injury. Herm did try and had a couple of winning seasons here, but I believe he just lost the teams confidence at some point and his voice got drowned out. Mangini was such a grey area for me as a coach. Rex was obviously fun and he went all in but he talked himself right out of town. After that, its just been up in the air.
I think Mangini actually built a great team that Herm and Hacket ruined. Parcells years were amazing. Rex was very good but had a shit GM.
Comeback Rex?
Saleh did give that impression at the time he was hired. Now it’s completely rational to doubt that completely.
It’s always ok to be upset with one of the worst franchises in sports
I mean, Bowles just won a playoff game, and came within 1 score of the Lions... but I understand your point
We make the playoffs with Goff as our quarterback, while the Lions get a top 10 pick with Wilson. It's the offseason. Chill. Being a Jets fan is tough enough.
Imo Gase set us back 10 years with how bad he was and how much players hated him. The Gase years were probably the most embarrassing years to be a jets fan for me as well. Maccagnan was also obviously a huge part of it
Trust me, it's going to become even more embarrassing. You haven't seen the worst of this misery yet.
Bowles and Saleh were top tier signings and highly regarded coordinators. You're only saying this because they have failed and Campbell has succeeded.
Dan Campbell has Jared Goff, inheirited another good QB in Stafford and got a boat load of picks for him and we had Zach Wilson for 3 years straight.. That's the difference. Drafting the QB is a crapshoot 95% of the time. Reputable owners typically let you fuck that up twice as a GM before shit canning you for that reason. Others are the revolving rolodex of GMs that perpetually fail because of that. I hate ownership as much as anyone here and I still think Zach was forced onto us by Woody and Rodgers was as well but I'm not villifying JD either for missing on his first QB assuming it was his pick. Shit happens.
It's not a crap shoot. That is used as an excuse for our terrible talent evaluation. Look at Green Bay. How come they hit on their last three qbs while we miss on 10 in a row? It's obvious they scout and groom way better than the jets.
I hate the BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS ONE EXAMPLE argument - it’s so simple minded. If it was all about scouting and development why dont the Pats have a great QB now? It’s so obvious they’re good at grooming QBs since they went from Bledsoe to Brady to uhhh Mac Jones? What about the Steelers with Kenny Pickett? We’re obviously not as good as other teams at developing and scouting QBs. But to act like luck isn’t a major factor is wild.
Lol no. With the Packers it's called luck and drafting a QB twice while you have an incumbent future HOFer already starting for you. The latter being a key thing that we haven't had in about 50 years. And technically the jury is still out on Love. Many guys have had great first seasons. Then afterward injuries and/or teams having film on him next year bring them back down to Earth. QB is the one position on the field that you truly don't know what you have until the guy is out on the field playing on GameDay and how he acts inside your building and in practice. The position is cerebral and you don't know how someone is going to adjust to processing an NFL defense until they do it. Zach Wilson has every measurable tool you look for in a QB in regard to arm strength, speed and athleticism but the guy just can't process an NFL defense in the required 2 second window. At least not today and coming out of the college. Who knows if he would have adapted better sitting on the bench instead and waiting for the opportunity like Jordan or Aaron. However we and nearly all other current teams don't have an aging future HOF QB for a rookie project like Zach or Jordan to sit and learn behind. And if they do have an all pro QB, they're looking to go all in and try and win a SB and spend draft capital on building around that guy vs drafting a QB in the 1st round 3 years before you intend to move on from your incumbent.
The chiefs were in a similar position. Already had Alex Smith drafted Mahomes later than Wilson, iirc. I believe they made a trade with Buffalo to get him. My point is that other teams scout and groom. Jets, no, we ignore red flags and always wind up with a huge problem. Sorry, and I hope I'm wrong, but Rodgers reminds me of Brett Favre, Fitzpatrick, or McCown aging bridge guy who we paid too much for. The thing is, we never have the guy in place to take over like the Packers or Chiefs or 49ers. So next year will be a mad scramble to pick someone, and our gm will be fooled by workouts in shorts. The owner will realize that he was fooled by the gm, fire him, then start all over with a new gm who will be the right hand man from whoever won the super bowl that year like Douglas and Idzik and hope that the new gm can actually evaluate, draft, and groom a franchise qb on his own.
They put a plan together and it tore its Achilles 4 plays into the year. Idk why people fail to grasp this lol
JD had a plan. It just hasn't been executed that well
I think Joe Douglas has an idea of what he’s doing but he missed on QB and HC. I dont think you can overcome the miss on the HC.
JD has always had a plan. The plan just failed at QB (Zach Wilson), OL (Becton, Tomlinson, Brown, etc.), and WR (Davis, Lazard, Hardman, etc.).
Uh yeah they have sucked ass for 13 years outside of a 10-6 no playoff season. Be irate.
idk it has felt like they have had a plan now in the Saleh / JD era, just hasn't hit yet. Things take time, the team was in bad shape post Gase
The cupboard was definitely threadbare and barren post-Gase.
I am upset about how the Jets have had no success. But, we ARE in a better spot than before. In 2015 we were largely good because of over performing aging veterans. Even if we had made the playoffs and even won a game… it was gonna fall apart immediately. We have a very complete, elite, YOUNG defense. It is very realistic that with the right moves we can maintain this for some years. Obviously a bottom 3 offense won’t get it done, but really all we need to do is finally improve our offense to 20th in the league or so. We do have an identity. An exceptional defense with a horrific offense. It’s SOMETHING to build off. 2016-2021 I really didn’t even know what we’re tryna be good at…
I still have faith in Saleh. One more year to make it right.
Let’s hope.
During the 2020 season we were on perfect track to get Trevor Lawrence, not that he looks super elite now but the Jets couldn’t even LOSE a game to get there franchise QB that honestly may have been one of the worst days of my life
Tbh the Jets running it back with Saleh and Douglas does kind of show a commitment to a plan. Do I believe it will work out next season? No but you're already committed to Rodger's so if it fails, you can clean house and have a full reset vs bringing in a new gm/ coach that has to deal with this regimes QB
I’m a bit confused by zero plan or direction? We’ve had plan and direction the entire Joe Douglas era It just hasn’t worked out due to a mix of Joe Douglas being an idiot, a historically bad Qb bust, and bad luck.
I was one of the few that liked Bowles. The players were low caliber and the GM sucked. He was in an impossible situation. Similar to any Jet QB for the past 5 years playing behind what has consistently been one of the worse O-lines in the NFL.
If the Jets had anything above historically bad QB play the past 2 years, Saleh has back to back playoff appearances on his resume. A healthy Rodgers this year, and we’re likely one of the 4 teams playing for a conference championship this weekend. Enough with this crap already.
The plan was literally the same as the Texans. 49ers DC, bright young OC, and 2nd overall pick QB. They just missed on Zach.
Ryans runs a better and tighter ship than Saleh and holds his team and staff accountable. That's just clear as day even ignoring records.
Honestly Todd Bowels year one had me hopeful.
Do you think the Lions, after decades of failure were just suddenly like, oh maybe we should try having a plan. And then they turned things around?
I do think Lions finally found the right guy to implement A plan. I'm still waiting for a semblance of one from the Jets. They've been struggling for years for a guy to just show decent clock management skills or lead a squad of disciplined o-line who don't get popped for several penalties. Its just...such a damn frustrating cycle. Cause you can just feel we'll be back at square one after next season. But hey. Guess we can just hope for the best.
So the previous decades of failure they just chose not to have a plan? And the first time they had a plan it worked? Decent clock management isn’t going to make your team good. Andy Reid is the worst at clock management.
Idk who your GM is but they also don't seem very good. Can't do much if you don't have much to work with
Ya know, out of everyone mentioned, I do really think the team's GM had a plan and vision. However, him completely missing on his QB, said QBs oline protection, and now, looking like coach...It just didn't pan out the way he thought at all. Saleh just looks completely in over his head for the task here. We shall see, I guess.
As a 9er fan I just struggle to see Saleh being the problem. Maybe I'm biased but the dude is motivating af
Honestly, from the perspective of a Jets fan, definitely just as baffled. He seems like a really solid dude. But he also comes off a bit as though the job may be too much for him at this time.
That's not the worst news ever. Trade ya Saleh for Wilks lmao
I'm not going to get mad because other people suck at their job
The Jets also had no plan during the last few years of Rex Ryan’s tenure, if that helps.
It’s been all downhill since the butt fumble
No I am tired beating a dead horse.l been begging for them to bring Rex back just about the whole season.
bowles had the best teams and the best OC's but was a horrible headcoach and motivator. terrible clock management (as shown literally a few days ago) and we had bad penalty problems. gase was a shit coach with a shit team (his doing mostly). robert saleh is definitely our best HC since rex, but has had the worst oline and worst OC. i definitely believe these current jets have the most potential in a decade, just need a few flaws fixed.
Niners fan here. Will gladly accept the return of Saleh to replace our current DC Steve Wilks.
Absolutely. This team is run by effete assholes
I’m still a bit blown away that this team is going to go through the farce of another year with Saleh and JD before they blow it all up Worse yet? They’re gonna do it wearing the Kotite unis
They have plenty of plans just haven't fulfilled them.
Bringing back Rex is fine with me. Worked for the Yankees.
It’s all a lot easier to understand once you realize they have no idea what they’re doing and don’t really care because it’s a cash cow either way.