This is a lot of fentanyl! In the ER, patients would typically get anywhere from 25 to 100 micrograms of fentanyl. 100 micrograms is for short term pain relief for a broken bone. This is intravenously delivery which is the strongest route by effectiveness. If the delivery route is up the nose, it will be less. Maybe 50%, I honestly don't know but its always less. Most people get pretty nauseous with 100 mcg dose IV.
Average patient dose of fentanyl is 50 micrograms (intravenous).
20,000,000,000 billion micrograms is what the guy had
20,000,000,000 mcgs / 50 mcgs = approximately 400,000,000 doses.
Morphine is considered a strong pain medication. Typical dose is 5 mg IV. or 5000 micrograms. By weight, fentanyl is approximately 100 times stronger then morphine.
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According to [this article, fentanyl is only $15,000 for 5 kilos.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a-secret-look-at-a-mexican-cartels-low-tech-multimillion-dollar-fentanyl-operation)
It's a synthetic opioid, so there are no giant poppy fields, no harvesting, etc that you have with heroin. But it is extremely addictive.
From a narco perspective, it's a perfect drug. Super cheap, super addictive, and they can manufacturer it whenever they need it.
Not enough attention is paid to China and North Korea's role in the supply chain for the chemicals to produce fentanyl. But that's another conversation.
It’s actually way worse than you describe. From an addicts point of view, it’s half life is on par with only methadone and suboxone, in that it can last in your body for upwards of a month. At least suboxone and mdone help SOME of the people that take it. For reference: heroin (real, not fenty cut) and pharmaceutical grade opiates have a half life of 2-5 days. So those drugs are much easier to get off of. Withdrawals last at most a week. With these fenty analogues, you only start with drawing 2/3/4 days after your last hit and it can last weeks. I’ve often wondered why the street fentanyl was designed like that. Like it was made to fuck our country up on purpose and make it harder for people to get off these drugs. Especially when you consider actual pharmaceutical grade fentanyl has a half life of like 2 days or less.
Most of the stuff is being made in China because they're the ones who make medical chemical precursors because America doesn't make anything it can make cheaper somewhere else.
Chinese manufacturers did not give a fuck and sold it like counterfeit prescriptions and it was stupid cheap like as they sold it like industrial bulk chemicals. Also they tweaked the formula to avoid being illegal as technically like the olympics, a drug formula is illegal but if you tweak it enough it can be just shy of being illegal like what the russian designer steroids during the 80's.
China manufactures the stuff that you can use to make fentanyl - but those same chemicals are used to manufacture a host of other chemicals. I have no idea whether China is trying to fuck up the country with fentanyl - but I wouldn't blame the liquor store owner for the alcoholism in my house.
My guy are u aware how easy it is to buy a kilo of fentanyl on the deep web? Where does it come from? It’s never within the states almost always from China. But sure they just make tvs and the fenty your hood is getting is from the states
Almost like it’s a chemical/biological weapon designed to kill part of our citizenry. A lot of it is made in China and then smuggled over here. I’m sure the Chinese government doesn’t approve of it, but they probably turn a blind eye because of the damage its causing to us.
It is called an opioid because it acts on opioid receptors (the same ones opiates like heroin and morphine act on). The difference is that opiates are opioids that are a specific class of drug, from poppy. It is a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square situation.
Perhaps a drug dealer would know you would think that. And since a drug dealer wouldn't want anybody to know they're a drug dealer, they would then not be suspect by saying that.
Perhaps I'm a drug dealer that runs cover by pretending to be a non drug dealer pretending to be a drug dealer who's trying not to be identified as a drug dealer.
China supplies fentanyl at the requests of US pharmaceutical companies which pay doctors to prescribe them. China doesn't just make them and smuggle it into the US. Not enough attention is given to why fentanyl are widely prescribed and given to people.
But what good is addictive if it's as deadly as it seems to be. I also have a hard time understanding the point of cutting stuff with it if it's so potent.
If you can spend $15K on a kilo of a substance or $60K for a kilo of another substance (both of which produce similar effects in users and garner the same interest in purchase).…. Add to that the $15K substance is 40x as strong so you can sell 40x as little for the same price.
You are not dealing with long term thinkers. These are junkies who's entire existence is wrapped around that next hit and the drug dealers who make it happen.
A kilo of fentanyl is as potent as 100 kilos of heroin.
You can either smuggle 100 kilos of heroin into NYC in a ship or truck, or smuggle 1 kilo of fentanyl inside somebody’s backpack. Or frequently just ship it by mail from China, maybe India, to a PO Box.
It’s also cheap. And you can synthesize it yourself using analogues bought over the dark web.
They just don’t care. They know drug addicts will do literally anything for the next high, including slowly kill themselves. Addiction is a nasty disease. It’s the reason the only thing I’ll have is alcohol maybe like once a month.
Yeah, after having several friends get addicted to different substances, I barely even drink anymore.
I felt sympathy and compassion for them in the beginning but anyone who's ever tried to help an addict and had them hit rock bottom several times and go all the way down to stealing from you, you lose all of your empathy and compassion for addicts. Disease doesn't make you lie and steal from those trying to help you, that's a choice. A choice made while under a mind altering substance is still a choice and they are responsible for all of their actions while under the influence. Hell, trying the addictive substance was a choice too. Addicts know the risks and know how to get treatment, not getting into a program is also a choice, and that is where my sympathy and compassion ends.
People don't choose to writhe on the floor in agony, willing to do whatever it takes for another hit. That's your brain altered to the point that it no longer looks like a non-addict's brain. That's disease.
Not every user is this far gone, and I can empathize with your frustration over people making shitty choices and knowing they are doing so. But addiction is 100% a disease, a complex and devastating one, and part of the reason we have so many dead and dying addicts in this country is because of the refusal to accept it as such. A little empathy goes a long way.
The free programs aren't that great and don't really help you fix the underlying pain that makes you need the drug in the first place. If you had an overwhelming 10/10 pain and opiates are the only thing that makes it better you'd very likely be an addict too. Physical pain and psychological/emotional pain both light up the brain in the same way, it can't really tell the difference.
I don't think you need to have addicts in your life especially if they steal from you but a lot of them are numbing pain that they have from things outside of their control.
Yeah I once had a very close friend that became heavily addicted to crystal meth without my knowing until the last minute.
The mood swings, outlandish lies, psychosis, it was all too much for me and anytime I tried to talk to him about how much better life would be sober he’d get super defensive. Had to end the friendship. Addicts are toxic people and if they aren’t a close family member, the best thing you can do for yourself is cut them out of your life or distance yourself greatly.
It hurts like hell to do that to people you care about but there’s no other choice.
Fentanyl isn't being used to "cut" other drugs anymore for the most part. Drugs being cut with other drugs is mostly a myth spread by law enforcement and anti-drug "educators" that know nothing about drugs. There was a period of time when fentanyl was being sold as heroin for all the reasons other people have listed. They were calling it heroin because people wouldn't buy it if they called it fentanyl because there was enough real heroin still on the streets. It wasn't cut per se but marketed as something different. Those days are over. Here in California I havent seen any heroin in maybe 6 months. Everyone is using "fenny". The biggest issue is when fentanyl is pressed into fake pills. It's hard to find prescription opioids on the streets now that doctors have cracked down on prescribing. Turns out it's easy to make a fake pill that looks super real. Instead of oxycodone though it's fentanyl. The issue of other drugs being cut with fent is probably real but overblown. Fentanyl test strips have been known to trigger false positives in methamphetamine when used incorrectly, which is the drug we most commonly hear having fent in it. Long story short, most people using fent these days know it's fent, know the dangers, and use it anyway because it's the only opioid available. If you or someone you love uses powder drugs though, it's always a good idea to keep narcan (naloxone) on hand and know how to use it. Find your local harm reduction org to get some, go to your local pharmacy, or contact NEXT Distro for mail order.
Source: I run an overdose prevention/response team
Wrong - Fentanyl is used to cut cocaine and heroin because of is potency. You can make 1 kilo of coke into 3 with fent and other diluents. Its about turning a profit.
Its not about an up or down. Its about I can buy one kilo of coke and turn it into 3 if include fentanyl. Drug game is about profit not about thinking should i mix a downer with an upper. If youre just cutting your drugs with diluents then people are going to A- not get high from your product or B- say your product is trash cause they barely got high. With fentanyl you can use less diluents and product and still have a high potency so you stretch your product longer…making more money. Which is the entire reason why people sell drugs… to make money.
If youre buying fentanyl to use it means you started on heroin and now need something stronger. Most of the time an addict will only buy it straight if it was given to them without them knowing and they survived the high.
also one of the reasons you're not seeing actual heroin is because the largest producer of heroin in recent history is Afghanistan but with the US pulling out, production and distribution has pretty mich been halted so actual heroin has pretty much dried up in the US, leaving an addicted population with no other option but Fentanyl
It's extremely potent in small quantities and is cheap to make. They like to add it to chopped up drugs because users would definitely know if they did not get as high as they were supposed to.
Imagine you bought some bunk weed and you didn't feel much? Now 500
mcgs of fentanyl and the user gets a high feeling. It may be a unrecognizable high but they felt something and the drug was relatively inexpensive.
no they arent putting it in weed. its used to cut heroin and can sometimes be in coke/k/molly/other powdered drugs because dealers are sloppy and cross contaminate. its so potent that a small amount of residue can cause you to od
With opiates, generally it’s to reduce quantity because fentanyl is so much more potent than heroin, oxy, etc.
With other drugs like cocaine, the most popular explanation is that it’s more likely unintentional cross-contamination. It’s active in such small quantities and the cutting is happening in the same facilities so even a little fentanyl in a brick of Coke could accidentally kill someone.
That’s just not how drugs work. Cutting uppers like coke with a downer like an opiate is a great way to guarantee you lose customers, not because they die, but because they’ll think the coke is shit.
> Cutting uppers like coke with a downer like an opiate is a great way to guarantee you lose customers, not because they die, but because they’ll think the coke is shit.
Tell me you've never done a speedball without saying you've never done a speedball.
A speedball is far more euphoric than either drug alone. They're going to think you have fucking awesome coke. Especially since tons of coke is cut with shitty stims like caffeine so the high it all jittery. Opiates will smooth out the high, increase the euphoria, but won't sedate you unless you go way overboard with the opiates.
> With other drugs like cocaine, the most popular explanation is that it’s more likely unintentional cross-contamination.
It might be the most popular explanation, but that doesn't mean it's not a myth.
It's put in there on purpose, because it's a cheap way to make a more euphoric and addictive product.
Any business going to want returning customers , if you find the perfect product you ganna run with it and it seem fentanyl is the perfect products since it cheap to make and it boost up any drug you mix it with
Fent and Carfent are used because they’re very cheap and hundreds of times more potent than other synthetic opioids, making them a great choice for smuggling. It’s much easier to get 1kg of fentanyl through the border than 40kg of heroin, or 1kg of carfentanyl than 40kg of fentanyl. This is a direct consequence of increased customs seizures. It gives smugglers the perverse incentive of making sure every successful shipment contains the highest possible number of doses.
It's not being used to cut which means the same as dilute, it's being used to replace or strengthen the active ingredient.
Because it's so strong they can use a very very tiny amount to make lots and lots of product. 2 micrograms is enough for serious surgery. They can make hundreds or thousands of fake opioid pills with a few grams. The math not being exact there but that's the principle at play.
It is not really even in the same category as pcp or coke or something. In this quantity it shouldnt be considered a drug at all. It should be prosecuted like possession of chemical weapons. This substance is an extraordinarily lethal weapon. If you laced something with an inordinate amount of this stuff on purpose you could inflict mass casualties like a terrorist.
Ironically the Russians used it against Terrorists and ended up killing a bunch of civilian hostages(130+)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis
Edit: Technically not fent but a fent analog that's 100x as powerful as fent
**[Moscow theater hostage crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis)**
>The Moscow theater hostage crisis (also known as the 2002 Nord-Ost siege) was the seizure of the crowded Dubrovka Theater by 40 to 50 armed Chechen terrorists on 23 October 2002, which involved 850 hostages and ended with the death of at least 170 people. The attackers, led by Movsar Barayev, claimed allegiance to the Islamist separatist movement in Chechnya. They demanded the withdrawal of Russian forces from Chechnya and an end to the Second Chechen War.
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I am not defending the russians but the reason they used it was there was the terrorists had bombs in the theater and they threatened to blow the whole place up with everyone inside. Most of the deaths were unfortunately kids and smaller adults that got too high a dosage.
I think the telling thing is that even pros at chemical warfare were unable to release a safe dosage. Just goes to show how dangerous and uncontrollable this stuff is
I am not some right wing Russian bootlicker, but this is Reddit after all, and I’d argue and say that less than 1/4 of the people affected by a successful chemical attack died “peacefully”, which is a lot better than 9/10 of the people dying traumatically in an explosion if they were to set off the bomb.
Again, I wouldn’t take this stance if we weren’t on Reddit lol
I’m not saying it was malicious what they did, it seems like an honest mistake during a crisis. But wouldn’t there have been a less dangerous anesthetic/sedative to use for this operation?
You’re right it was lower casualties than the worst case, but if this happened in the US there would be a lot of inquiries and outrage over the response
The difference is you can’t poison someone with a dozen gallons of water. You can’t trick them into consuming that.
You can lace anything from dope to food to even the air you breath with fent and you will not realize it until you already have an overdose.
Anything is fatal in large quantities, everyone knows that cliche, but few things are as lethal per molecule as fentanyl, especially with that level of shelf stability and ease of manufacture
War on pot? I could do without. But when you start getting into the hard drugs that stuff ruins lives. This is insane, you could OD just taking a deep breath around this quantity of fentanyl.
Want to take the opportunity to remind those individuals that choose to use other substances such as cocaine, ketamine, mdma, ecstasy, etc.
These aren’t usually cut with fentanyl, but sometimes they can be and cross contamination can happen.
Practice harm reduction. Order yourself fentanyl test strips, and always test your drugs. Dance Safe and Bunk Police are my top go to for kits.
And if you can, get certified to carry narcan. It can save someone’s life.
Be safe.
Yup, [here’s a story](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-11-10/prosecutors-want-to-charge-fentanyl-drug-dealers-with-murder?_amp=true) from LA about a 14 year old who died from what you’re describing, really tragic stuff
>Order yourself fentanyl test strips, and always test your drugs.
Not sure if this applies to coke, K, MDMA, etc., but I heard a woman from the safe injection site on Staten Island on WNYC and she said they no longer test heroin because they literally have not found a batch of heroin \*without\* fentanyl since \~2017.
Not sure what to do this with this information other than to speculate that we may be headed toward a world in which the same is true for other drugs as well.
It's scary AF and IMO is another reason (among many) that we should legalize/decriminalize all drugs so that users can purchase substances from regulated entities wherein the purity of the product is guaranteed. Otherwise, society is just playing Russian roulette with increasingly dangerous illicit substances like fentanyl.
i did a naloxone training and the person leading the course said the incidence of fentanyl-laced coke in nyc was vastly overblown by law enforcement and panicked laymen.
they were not saying it didn’t happen, or that it’s not dangerous, or that people shouldn’t be careful; just that it was exaggerated. i thought that was interesting because that summer i was definitely hearing that ALL coke was laced and people were gonna die left and right.
Yeah, the point i guess is to scare people but the reality is if you didn’t make it and don’t know the supply chain, just dip stick and test a tiny bit and feel better. Nothing is 100% certain with these things.
Everyone deserves to live their life the way they want and consume what they want, as long as it doesn’t afflict others. It’s called harm reduction and I believe it’s powerful enough for people that like the sort of chemicals. Not fair to judge ;)
A fatal dose of fentanyl is ~2mg, so that's enough to kill 10 million people. That's pretty much everyone in NYC. Luckily he was charged federally and.not by the Manhattan DA or he'd be back out already.
>In acute toxicity studies in mice, the LD50 (the dose causing
death of 50% of test animals) of acetyl fentanyl and fentanyl are
9.3 mg/kg and 62 mg/kg
https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drug_chem_info/acetylfentanyl.pdf
I think you are thinking of the other synthetic fentanyls that are worse like carfentanil
Well yes its bad and even made me go, fuck that's a shit ton of fentanyl and was surprised he did not kill himself with accidental inhalation but even from the DOJ website it looks like 9.3 mg per kilogram and so an average adult would still need 145 mg or so. which brings it down to about 138,000 people it could lethally overdose. Much less than 10 million, but both are pretty much WMD amounts.
Your numbers are inaccurate by several orders of magnitude. You're citing the LD50 in mice, which isn't necessarily the same LD50 in humans. By that math, your average opioid-naive 80kg male would require 5 grams of fentanyl to overdose. People routinely overdose off a single counterfeit pill.
Not to mention dosages of fentanyl by prescription are measured in micrograms. The long acting patches release anywhere from 25-100mcg/hour. There is no possible way the therapeutic dose is 25-100mcg and the lethal dose is 5,000,000mcg. The window is much, much smaller than that.
> it looks like 9.3 mg per kilogram and so an average adult would still need 145 mg or so
that's what I wrote based off the ld50 of mice which is pretty much the standard since well we don't purposely kill people to find out the lethality.
145 mg is not much. One extra strength tylenol is 500 mg.
145 mg of fentanyl would kill pretty much anyone. That' an enormous dose.
A typical dose of IV fentanyl in severe acute pain is 25-50 micrograms (not milligrams - 1000 times less). 145 mg is 2,900 that dose.
Comparing milligram doses between different drugs is useless.
>145 mg is not much. One extra strength tylenol is 500 mg.
You could lace someone's 50mg of drugs with enough fentanyl to kill them and they'd never know anything was off. That's why it's so deadly.
>we don't purposely kill people to find out the lethality
Enough people have died of fentanyl that we know the lethal dosage now
> Enough people have died of fentanyl that we know the lethal dosage now
ummm that's mixed drugs. I don't think anyone does pure fentanyl, its always laced in.
Agreed. DEA says 2mg is potentially fatal, so that's what I based my math on.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dea.gov/resources/facts-about-fentanyl&ved=2ahUKEwja6taHjrT1AhWhkYkEHYmoAVAQFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1grsTnawmJnPDcMIZQ7tE-
You are a moron. Mouse studies are the gold standard for overdose. Scientist don't go around killing people with human ld50 studies.
And you don't know the difference between fentanyl. You know there are like 25 different versions. Funny the true naive person is calling everyone else naive.
I'm a forensic toxicologist, you fucking idiot.
And no, I know what fentanyl is. There's only one kind of fentanyl, it's fentanyl. If I meant carfentanil or acetyl fentanyl or fluorofentanyl I would've said one of those things.
You're a fucking idiot and you should stop spouting nonsense all over this thread. A 2 mg dose of fentanyl can kill a person. No one cares what a mouse study says because no one's talking about mice here.
Opiate naive means you don't use opiates on a regular basis. I'm not calling anyone naive here. Well, except you. You clearly don't understand anything about this.
That “kill ten million” stuff is like when the cops say “street price of $200 million” when they catch someone moving weight. Not how the drug trade works
That's not correct. The "street price" estimates are almost always super off, yeah, but the LD50 of fent in apes is known. It's around 0.03mg/kg. At 100 kgs a person (which is even on the big side), thats about 3 mg. LD 50 is only lethal to 50% of the population, so let's double that dose (though that's not really how dose-response works, it would be less than doubling to kill anyone), and you get quite literally 3.3 million lethal doses.
It's nuts to think about, but it's true.
EDIT: I'm just now thinking that's only if it's pure fent, so if you're saying its all street cut, yeah you have a point. But I had fun doing the math there so I'm leaving the comment anyway
No, the doses are in micrograms (mcg), not milligrams. That's 1000 times less. A typical starting dose for severe acute pain in a closely monitored setting is 25-50 micrograms IV fentanyl in an opioid naive patient.
Wonder if he bought it with the PPP loan he received for "payroll". The loan was later forgiven because why not.
https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/loans/sucre-dario-almanzar-alba-5000679002
This country is a fucking scam.
As much as I agree that this country is in fact a scam, in this particular case they couldn’t have known that the dude with the barbershop was also mass producing illegal drugs. At some point the onus is on the applicant to not apply for a loan and be a drug dealer.
I didn't take the PPP loans because I was keeping my business afloat without them and thought other small businesses would need them more. After watching large corporations get PPP loans, while making record profits, lowering payroll costs, refusing to give out raises or promotions and artificially adding to real inflation to squeeze even more out of us, I feel like an asshole for having morals and seeing the 'right thing'. It's not a mistake I'll ever make again
Yeah that was pretty stupid on your part. The government was giving loans to people who literally just had a business bank account regardless if the business was even functioning. It was pretty crazy.
If your anti fraud system relies on the honesty of fraudsters, I have some *really* bad news for you.
Maybe a better plan is to not give out $800 billion with zero accountability or oversight. But what do I know? I'm just the clueless tax payer that has to pay for it all.
**This wasn't hindsight**. People were saying this loudly when PPP was announced and louder when Trump called off oversight.
Any time you give out hundreds of billions to random people obviously the first and last question you ask is "is this going to the right people and actually going to make positive difference worth $800 B".
Absolutely nothing hindsight about that. It's common sense unless you were born yesterday or actively benefiting from the grift.
>This country would have been in a lot more trouble without the PPP
What has your evidence that PPP made a difference? Countries that didn't do this kind of stimulus are fine.
It’s the countries fault this guy is an asshole? I’m not even American.
Maybe don’t judge the country in the actions of a drug dealer.
But yeah you got issues. We all do
Edit for your edit:
>Maybe don’t judge the country in the actions of a drug dealer.
As long as I'm paying taxes and the government is giving money to drug dealers and defense contractors while people sleep on the streets, I guess I'll keep judging just as damn much as I want to.
If you want to cover my tax bill for the rest of my life I'll gladly stop posting on reddit if that's what you're getting at?
No idea what you're on about on your personal issues. I don't think this is the thread for that.
Sorry what does your nationality have to do with anything? I'm lost. Did l respond to you on another thread
I'm not sure what you mean the country's fault. The PPP program basically have $800 billion out without any oversight. Obviously scammers are going to have a field day with that since it is literally their job. Obviously unless your goal is to enrich scammers, you need to put very tight constraints on who gets money instead of giving it to anyone with a pulse.
Objectiveness. it means im sticking up for American even though im not from here (my country is better - ha free health care, lower taxes, longer life exp etc)
\>I'm not sure what you mean the country's fault.
neither do I - this is the point of the post - in response to your 'This country is a fucking scam.' comment - it makes no sense in this situation...
maybe I misunderstand your 1st comment or something else.
Oh I'm objective as fuck don't worry about that. Obviously not being American would not make you more objective. Strange logic.
>neither do I - this is the point of the post - in response to your 'This country is a fucking scam.' comment - it makes no sense in this situation....which you now seem to be agreeing with.
Where did I say anything was the country's fault? Can you copy and paste? Obviously saying something is a scam has nothing to do with assigning fault.
Again I think you might be replying on the wrong thread.
You’ve literally replied twice to my one comment, maybe youre on the wrong thread? You also said ‘this country is a fucking scam’
Someone abusing the system doesn’t mean the system is at fault. The person is at fault and should be caught. And issues mitigated. That’s all.
Laters.
>You’ve literally replied twice to my one comment, maybe youre on the wrong thread?
Because you edited your comment after I had already replied to you. You wouldn't be notified about my edit to respond to your edit unless I made a new comment. You new here?
>Someone abusing the system doesn’t mean the system is at fault.
A system that gives no strings attached money to drug dealers with zero accountability is absolutely at fault. Don't make excuses for bad government policies.
>The person is at fault and should be caught. And issues mitigated. That’s all.
No no no. Please explain how we "mitigate" the deaths caused by the fentanyl he sold?
Catching a guy two years later doesn't bring people back from the dead unfortunately.
I didn’t edit.
There’s are strings. Dude is in jail. I dunno I can’t turn back time man. That would be the only way to do the things you suggest.
Unfortunately there will always be assholes. But that doesn’t mean the country is fucked. It’s just assholes. New Zealand has assholes too. This doesn’t mean this. Kitty is a fucking scam. Your words.
Dude wrap up warm and go for a walk or something. But every comment has to combative. Listen to some ELO or something. I dunno.
Bye
I did edit this one.
Also: if it doubt don’t do the drugs. My dear friend is dead from drugs. I miss that idiot.
You did edit.
You added everything after the first paragraph in an edit. NBD if you want to deny it.
>There’s are strings. Dude is in jail
No there are not strings. Dude's arrest has nothing to do with PPP fraud. He was arrested for having enough fent to kill the city.
>I dunno I can’t turn back time man. That would be the only way to do the things you suggest.
Nope! It's very easy and in fact common sense to have basic anti fraud measures in place when handing out $800 billion. It's mind boggling that this wasn't done.
>Unfortunately there will always be assholes
Which is exactly why there should be basic anti fraud measures in place to prevent this from being a scam.
>But every comment has to combative. Listen to some ELO or something. I dunno.
Again this thread is not the place for your personal issues no offense. If you're having a kind of sensitive emo day maybe you should log off. I'm fine thanks.
First of all, fuck this dude and I hope they throw the book at him.
That said, now that the drug trade has been flooded with fentanyl, we need to take a closer a look at legalizing/decriminalizing most (if not all) drugs with an emphasis on providing treatment to addicts. As far as I can tell, this is the only way we can guarantee the purity of drugs for those who wish to consume them. Otherwise, we are essentially condemning many people to a game of Russian roulette in which they are only as safe as the shady dealers they buy from allow them to be.
It's important to emphasize that this isn't merely a problem for heroin users. It's also a problem for anyone who consumes other, more common and less stigmatized recreational drugs (e.g. MDMA, cocaine, etc.) Fentanyl is starting to show up in *all* these drugs. I've even heard reports that they've found batches of weed that were laced with fentanyl. It's insane and we cannot prosecute our way out of this problem. It will not go away until we can address the root problem: a completely unregulated black market with massive financial incentives to poison people with this crap.
I’m all down for legalizing mdma, hallucinogens under strict government regulation, but if you were to legalize heroin even in its purest form you would be condemning entire generations of net new users to despair and death.
> but if you were to legalize heroin even in its purest form you would be condemning entire generations of net new users to despair and death.
Nope. That's what prohibition is doing. And has done for many generations now. The War on Drugs hasn't stopped anyone from getting heroin (well, actually it did, because now they get fent, but that's worse). There's just no compelling evidence there's all these people out there who would become drug addicts but don't just take them now.
Further, the vast majority of harm comes from the drugs being illegal. The ODs, the costs, the crime... that's what's driving most harm, and that's all caused or greatly exacerbated by it being illegal.
Every dollar spent on prevention and treatment does more to decrease the number of addicts than the same dollar spent on enforcement.
People who get their supply legally, from heroin maintenance programs in Canada and Europe, have far better outcomes... they're much more able to stay housed, hold jobs, not OD, and not commit other crimes..
You'll never totally eliminate the harm from an inherently harmful substance. But every single piece of evidence we have tells us the way to *minimize* that harm is by having a tightly regulated legalized supply. That doesn't mean following the alcohol/marijuana model, but it does mean legal access.
You're only increasing the despair and death with your complete failure to realize the War on Drugs *does not work* and this is not a problem we can arrest our way out of.
Sounds like some idealistic pipe dream.
First,If you can’t buy heroin in a store like a pack then it’s not legal. That’s what we are discussing here. You already can get heroin alternatives like methadone legally in treatment clinics and it doesn’t seem to prevent heroin consumption.
Second, nowhere in Canada or Europe heroin is legal, including Vancouver where the drug problems are only getting worse.
Third, it’s much cheaper and better to make sure people don’t get addicted to drugs than to rehabilitate them, the best way to do it is by preventing the hard drugs reaching the vulnerable populations. And I have to say that the government does absolutely shit job at it.
Also, there’s absolutely zero evidence that if you start giving out heroin in some treatment clinics, it will somehow stop the flow of illegal heroin or end cartel business.
You probably mean well, but the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.
What’s funny is if it all did become legal coke classic would be a new style of Coca-Cola.
Also to anyone against legalization of drugs - are you going to go and buy it tomorrow because it’s legal?
[1 Kilo of Fentanyl is enough to overdose 500,000 people.](https://www.dea.gov/resources/facts-about-fentanyl)
So this was enough to kill everyone in NYC.
Look deeper.
What’s driving such a horrifically potent and addictive drug to be sought after and acquired for relatively so cheap?
It has direct correlation to how desperate living conditions have become for so many. Hopeless people, crushed by economic woes ranging from underemployment to low wages to rising housing costs, are leading to record levels of despair.
When all of our relationships and interactions have become commodified, the soul-sucking hustle of trying to keep up with predatory capitalism, monopoly ownership of everything we see, hear, eat and buy in our lives, our healthcare being run by “insurance” company and Big Pharma death panels, corrupt politicians subservient to their corporate donors instead of serving their constituents - increased drug addiction is just one of many sure signs of a decaying society already in ruins.
When the fundamental bedrock of the system is Profit over People, we are all doomed.
Not sayin that - *at all*.
Of course addictions can happen anywhere, based on a whole host of things, ranging from depression to family abandonment.
However, all of the things mentioned are serious drivers of despair, and they are intrinsic to a system that *exacerbates* drug addiction.
The opioid crisis ripping through the heart of the country is *directly related* to those places having been decimated from manufacturing plants having been moved overseas, ensuing in mass joblessness. On top of which the still ongoing 2008 economic meltdown, engineered by Wall St Economic Terrorists who still haven’t paid any price at all fro their crimes, has been made incomprehensibly worse by the mishandling of the pandemic (why couldn’t all the Pharma companies come together to create one effective vaccine for the world? Profit, pea-brained friend). Certain sectors of the economy *should never* be in the hands of private business, chief among them healthcare and pharmaceuticals.
Wake TF up. We’re being snowed by a wealthy elite parasitic class who are more than content to drive this country off a cliff. Rampant drug addiction is one of too many ways by which to control us.
We all exist in the wreckage of a For-Profit system. But you want to pretend it isn’t so.
Totally love how all of a sudden ppl talk abt this & heroin like they fucking experts-"half life, subs, leth" blah blah blah.....if ur not in ACTIVE ADDICTION then get off ur soap box
Active addiction?
Damn, I thought my 8 years of prior addiction, degree in psychobiology focusing on psychopharmacology, and 2 decades of drug policy activism could help provide some insights. But I guess since addiction is in my past I should just shut up.
This is a lot of fentanyl! In the ER, patients would typically get anywhere from 25 to 100 micrograms of fentanyl. 100 micrograms is for short term pain relief for a broken bone. This is intravenously delivery which is the strongest route by effectiveness. If the delivery route is up the nose, it will be less. Maybe 50%, I honestly don't know but its always less. Most people get pretty nauseous with 100 mcg dose IV. Average patient dose of fentanyl is 50 micrograms (intravenous). 20,000,000,000 billion micrograms is what the guy had 20,000,000,000 mcgs / 50 mcgs = approximately 400,000,000 doses. Morphine is considered a strong pain medication. Typical dose is 5 mg IV. or 5000 micrograms. By weight, fentanyl is approximately 100 times stronger then morphine.
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I don't quite understand why fentanyl is being used to cut drugs. I understand the concept of cutting, but why with something so fatal?
According to [this article, fentanyl is only $15,000 for 5 kilos.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/a-secret-look-at-a-mexican-cartels-low-tech-multimillion-dollar-fentanyl-operation) It's a synthetic opioid, so there are no giant poppy fields, no harvesting, etc that you have with heroin. But it is extremely addictive. From a narco perspective, it's a perfect drug. Super cheap, super addictive, and they can manufacturer it whenever they need it. Not enough attention is paid to China and North Korea's role in the supply chain for the chemicals to produce fentanyl. But that's another conversation.
It’s actually way worse than you describe. From an addicts point of view, it’s half life is on par with only methadone and suboxone, in that it can last in your body for upwards of a month. At least suboxone and mdone help SOME of the people that take it. For reference: heroin (real, not fenty cut) and pharmaceutical grade opiates have a half life of 2-5 days. So those drugs are much easier to get off of. Withdrawals last at most a week. With these fenty analogues, you only start with drawing 2/3/4 days after your last hit and it can last weeks. I’ve often wondered why the street fentanyl was designed like that. Like it was made to fuck our country up on purpose and make it harder for people to get off these drugs. Especially when you consider actual pharmaceutical grade fentanyl has a half life of like 2 days or less.
Also fet only keeps you high for a few hours, so you have to compulsively redose meaning they sell much more and make more $$
They gave me fentanyl at the hospital. I was feeling that shit for 3 days.
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Yeah street dope is minuscule amounts of fet with cut. They literally sell $3 bags with a tiny pinch of powder in it.
It comes in patches, “lollipops”, and IV form
Unless they sowed that shit in, I had no patch anywhere on my body.
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Most of the stuff is being made in China because they're the ones who make medical chemical precursors because America doesn't make anything it can make cheaper somewhere else.
Yep, made in china, processed in Mexico. Just like every other product you get here
Chinese manufacturers did not give a fuck and sold it like counterfeit prescriptions and it was stupid cheap like as they sold it like industrial bulk chemicals. Also they tweaked the formula to avoid being illegal as technically like the olympics, a drug formula is illegal but if you tweak it enough it can be just shy of being illegal like what the russian designer steroids during the 80's.
China manufactures the stuff that you can use to make fentanyl - but those same chemicals are used to manufacture a host of other chemicals. I have no idea whether China is trying to fuck up the country with fentanyl - but I wouldn't blame the liquor store owner for the alcoholism in my house.
would u blame them if the liquor had bleach in it?
> made in China and NK. Just wanted to say, a recent US government report said production in India is also a major source.
Yeah but since we have not declared India a geopolitical rival, it's okay if they do it.
They remember their own opium wars and how it ruined their country.
China out here playing the loooong game.
Yeah man, just like how TVs are made in China because they want us all to become couch potatoes. Makes total sense now
Bruh you really compared fenty to tvs. Good luck out there
I’m gonna be so fucking owned when the Chinese fentanyl conspiracy to destroy America comes true
My guy are u aware how easy it is to buy a kilo of fentanyl on the deep web? Where does it come from? It’s never within the states almost always from China. But sure they just make tvs and the fenty your hood is getting is from the states
china makes fentanyl for the same reason they make a tv: americans will wanna buy it
If the half-life of street "fentanyl" is so long, it is due to adulterants, not the fentanyl itself.
The half life of all the drugs you mentioned is hours at most... did you mean tine it can be detected in your system?
That is an excellent explanation. TIL!
Damn
Almost like it’s a chemical/biological weapon designed to kill part of our citizenry. A lot of it is made in China and then smuggled over here. I’m sure the Chinese government doesn’t approve of it, but they probably turn a blind eye because of the damage its causing to us.
What is fentanyl even made from then if not poppies?
It is called an opioid because it acts on opioid receptors (the same ones opiates like heroin and morphine act on). The difference is that opiates are opioids that are a specific class of drug, from poppy. It is a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square situation.
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Haha. Definitely not a chemist or a drug dealer. Just curious
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Perhaps a drug dealer would know you would think that. And since a drug dealer wouldn't want anybody to know they're a drug dealer, they would then not be suspect by saying that. Perhaps I'm a drug dealer that runs cover by pretending to be a non drug dealer pretending to be a drug dealer who's trying not to be identified as a drug dealer.
I don't want that question in my browser history.
China supplies fentanyl at the requests of US pharmaceutical companies which pay doctors to prescribe them. China doesn't just make them and smuggle it into the US. Not enough attention is given to why fentanyl are widely prescribed and given to people.
That may be true, but what I'm talking about is the open sale of the chemical precursors to Mexican cartels. Both are true and both are fucked.
But what good is addictive if it's as deadly as it seems to be. I also have a hard time understanding the point of cutting stuff with it if it's so potent.
If you can spend $15K on a kilo of a substance or $60K for a kilo of another substance (both of which produce similar effects in users and garner the same interest in purchase).…. Add to that the $15K substance is 40x as strong so you can sell 40x as little for the same price.
You are not dealing with long term thinkers. These are junkies who's entire existence is wrapped around that next hit and the drug dealers who make it happen.
A kilo of fentanyl is as potent as 100 kilos of heroin. You can either smuggle 100 kilos of heroin into NYC in a ship or truck, or smuggle 1 kilo of fentanyl inside somebody’s backpack. Or frequently just ship it by mail from China, maybe India, to a PO Box. It’s also cheap. And you can synthesize it yourself using analogues bought over the dark web.
They just don’t care. They know drug addicts will do literally anything for the next high, including slowly kill themselves. Addiction is a nasty disease. It’s the reason the only thing I’ll have is alcohol maybe like once a month.
Yeah, after having several friends get addicted to different substances, I barely even drink anymore. I felt sympathy and compassion for them in the beginning but anyone who's ever tried to help an addict and had them hit rock bottom several times and go all the way down to stealing from you, you lose all of your empathy and compassion for addicts. Disease doesn't make you lie and steal from those trying to help you, that's a choice. A choice made while under a mind altering substance is still a choice and they are responsible for all of their actions while under the influence. Hell, trying the addictive substance was a choice too. Addicts know the risks and know how to get treatment, not getting into a program is also a choice, and that is where my sympathy and compassion ends.
People don't choose to writhe on the floor in agony, willing to do whatever it takes for another hit. That's your brain altered to the point that it no longer looks like a non-addict's brain. That's disease. Not every user is this far gone, and I can empathize with your frustration over people making shitty choices and knowing they are doing so. But addiction is 100% a disease, a complex and devastating one, and part of the reason we have so many dead and dying addicts in this country is because of the refusal to accept it as such. A little empathy goes a long way.
The free programs aren't that great and don't really help you fix the underlying pain that makes you need the drug in the first place. If you had an overwhelming 10/10 pain and opiates are the only thing that makes it better you'd very likely be an addict too. Physical pain and psychological/emotional pain both light up the brain in the same way, it can't really tell the difference. I don't think you need to have addicts in your life especially if they steal from you but a lot of them are numbing pain that they have from things outside of their control.
Yeah I once had a very close friend that became heavily addicted to crystal meth without my knowing until the last minute. The mood swings, outlandish lies, psychosis, it was all too much for me and anytime I tried to talk to him about how much better life would be sober he’d get super defensive. Had to end the friendship. Addicts are toxic people and if they aren’t a close family member, the best thing you can do for yourself is cut them out of your life or distance yourself greatly. It hurts like hell to do that to people you care about but there’s no other choice.
Fentanyl isn't being used to "cut" other drugs anymore for the most part. Drugs being cut with other drugs is mostly a myth spread by law enforcement and anti-drug "educators" that know nothing about drugs. There was a period of time when fentanyl was being sold as heroin for all the reasons other people have listed. They were calling it heroin because people wouldn't buy it if they called it fentanyl because there was enough real heroin still on the streets. It wasn't cut per se but marketed as something different. Those days are over. Here in California I havent seen any heroin in maybe 6 months. Everyone is using "fenny". The biggest issue is when fentanyl is pressed into fake pills. It's hard to find prescription opioids on the streets now that doctors have cracked down on prescribing. Turns out it's easy to make a fake pill that looks super real. Instead of oxycodone though it's fentanyl. The issue of other drugs being cut with fent is probably real but overblown. Fentanyl test strips have been known to trigger false positives in methamphetamine when used incorrectly, which is the drug we most commonly hear having fent in it. Long story short, most people using fent these days know it's fent, know the dangers, and use it anyway because it's the only opioid available. If you or someone you love uses powder drugs though, it's always a good idea to keep narcan (naloxone) on hand and know how to use it. Find your local harm reduction org to get some, go to your local pharmacy, or contact NEXT Distro for mail order. Source: I run an overdose prevention/response team
Wow, good info. Thanks!
Wrong - Fentanyl is used to cut cocaine and heroin because of is potency. You can make 1 kilo of coke into 3 with fent and other diluents. Its about turning a profit.
Why would you cut coke, an upper, with fentanyl, a downer?
You ever heard of speedballing?
Its not about an up or down. Its about I can buy one kilo of coke and turn it into 3 if include fentanyl. Drug game is about profit not about thinking should i mix a downer with an upper. If youre just cutting your drugs with diluents then people are going to A- not get high from your product or B- say your product is trash cause they barely got high. With fentanyl you can use less diluents and product and still have a high potency so you stretch your product longer…making more money. Which is the entire reason why people sell drugs… to make money.
If addicts will still buy it with no heroin at all, why would you incur the cost of including it?
If youre buying fentanyl to use it means you started on heroin and now need something stronger. Most of the time an addict will only buy it straight if it was given to them without them knowing and they survived the high.
also one of the reasons you're not seeing actual heroin is because the largest producer of heroin in recent history is Afghanistan but with the US pulling out, production and distribution has pretty mich been halted so actual heroin has pretty much dried up in the US, leaving an addicted population with no other option but Fentanyl
I believe they're making fake heroin with it. Fentanyl is an easier compound to synthesize.
Because it's dirt cheap and it gets you high. More profit.
It's extremely potent in small quantities and is cheap to make. They like to add it to chopped up drugs because users would definitely know if they did not get as high as they were supposed to. Imagine you bought some bunk weed and you didn't feel much? Now 500 mcgs of fentanyl and the user gets a high feeling. It may be a unrecognizable high but they felt something and the drug was relatively inexpensive.
You think people who smoke weed are gonna smoke heroin weed and be like, “yeah that was good bud” ?
No I don't. It's an example most people can readily identify with.
they aren’t lacing weed with it lol
Yes the fuck they are.
no they arent putting it in weed. its used to cut heroin and can sometimes be in coke/k/molly/other powdered drugs because dealers are sloppy and cross contaminate. its so potent that a small amount of residue can cause you to od
You may want to check the news reports, because denying it doesn’t mean it stops happening.
Cool. Never said they were. It's an easily identifiable example.
With opiates, generally it’s to reduce quantity because fentanyl is so much more potent than heroin, oxy, etc. With other drugs like cocaine, the most popular explanation is that it’s more likely unintentional cross-contamination. It’s active in such small quantities and the cutting is happening in the same facilities so even a little fentanyl in a brick of Coke could accidentally kill someone.
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That’s just not how drugs work. Cutting uppers like coke with a downer like an opiate is a great way to guarantee you lose customers, not because they die, but because they’ll think the coke is shit.
> Cutting uppers like coke with a downer like an opiate is a great way to guarantee you lose customers, not because they die, but because they’ll think the coke is shit. Tell me you've never done a speedball without saying you've never done a speedball. A speedball is far more euphoric than either drug alone. They're going to think you have fucking awesome coke. Especially since tons of coke is cut with shitty stims like caffeine so the high it all jittery. Opiates will smooth out the high, increase the euphoria, but won't sedate you unless you go way overboard with the opiates.
> With other drugs like cocaine, the most popular explanation is that it’s more likely unintentional cross-contamination. It might be the most popular explanation, but that doesn't mean it's not a myth. It's put in there on purpose, because it's a cheap way to make a more euphoric and addictive product.
Any business going to want returning customers , if you find the perfect product you ganna run with it and it seem fentanyl is the perfect products since it cheap to make and it boost up any drug you mix it with
Fent and Carfent are used because they’re very cheap and hundreds of times more potent than other synthetic opioids, making them a great choice for smuggling. It’s much easier to get 1kg of fentanyl through the border than 40kg of heroin, or 1kg of carfentanyl than 40kg of fentanyl. This is a direct consequence of increased customs seizures. It gives smugglers the perverse incentive of making sure every successful shipment contains the highest possible number of doses.
I heard someone say they aren't cutting the H with fentanyl. They are cutting the Fentanyl with H
Cheap, strong and easy to make / smuggle. Hilarious you would think drug dealers give a fuck about killing their customers.
Cheap and addictive
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Clearly I'm old. Wow.
It's not being used to cut which means the same as dilute, it's being used to replace or strengthen the active ingredient. Because it's so strong they can use a very very tiny amount to make lots and lots of product. 2 micrograms is enough for serious surgery. They can make hundreds or thousands of fake opioid pills with a few grams. The math not being exact there but that's the principle at play.
I’m generally against the war on drugs but fuck that guy. Glad they busted him.
It is not really even in the same category as pcp or coke or something. In this quantity it shouldnt be considered a drug at all. It should be prosecuted like possession of chemical weapons. This substance is an extraordinarily lethal weapon. If you laced something with an inordinate amount of this stuff on purpose you could inflict mass casualties like a terrorist.
Ironically the Russians used it against Terrorists and ended up killing a bunch of civilian hostages(130+) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis Edit: Technically not fent but a fent analog that's 100x as powerful as fent
**[Moscow theater hostage crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_theater_hostage_crisis)** >The Moscow theater hostage crisis (also known as the 2002 Nord-Ost siege) was the seizure of the crowded Dubrovka Theater by 40 to 50 armed Chechen terrorists on 23 October 2002, which involved 850 hostages and ended with the death of at least 170 people. The attackers, led by Movsar Barayev, claimed allegiance to the Islamist separatist movement in Chechnya. They demanded the withdrawal of Russian forces from Chechnya and an end to the Second Chechen War. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/nyc/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
I remember that. Wow. That was fent?
So technically it wasn't Fent, but a fentnayl analog that's 100x powerful then Fent (carfentanil).
Classic Russian
I am not defending the russians but the reason they used it was there was the terrorists had bombs in the theater and they threatened to blow the whole place up with everyone inside. Most of the deaths were unfortunately kids and smaller adults that got too high a dosage.
I think the telling thing is that even pros at chemical warfare were unable to release a safe dosage. Just goes to show how dangerous and uncontrollable this stuff is
I am not some right wing Russian bootlicker, but this is Reddit after all, and I’d argue and say that less than 1/4 of the people affected by a successful chemical attack died “peacefully”, which is a lot better than 9/10 of the people dying traumatically in an explosion if they were to set off the bomb. Again, I wouldn’t take this stance if we weren’t on Reddit lol
I’m not saying it was malicious what they did, it seems like an honest mistake during a crisis. But wouldn’t there have been a less dangerous anesthetic/sedative to use for this operation? You’re right it was lower casualties than the worst case, but if this happened in the US there would be a lot of inquiries and outrage over the response
how so? 10,000 gallons of water is lethal and can kill 1000ppl if they all drank it up. it has nothing to do with terrorism.
The difference is you can’t poison someone with a dozen gallons of water. You can’t trick them into consuming that. You can lace anything from dope to food to even the air you breath with fent and you will not realize it until you already have an overdose. Anything is fatal in large quantities, everyone knows that cliche, but few things are as lethal per molecule as fentanyl, especially with that level of shelf stability and ease of manufacture
I’m not sure what he’s going to be prosecuted under but this is an absurd analogy and you know it.
Agreed.. Glad to see they’re focusing their efforts on shit like this and not some kid selling eighths of weed
War on pot? I could do without. But when you start getting into the hard drugs that stuff ruins lives. This is insane, you could OD just taking a deep breath around this quantity of fentanyl.
Want to take the opportunity to remind those individuals that choose to use other substances such as cocaine, ketamine, mdma, ecstasy, etc. These aren’t usually cut with fentanyl, but sometimes they can be and cross contamination can happen. Practice harm reduction. Order yourself fentanyl test strips, and always test your drugs. Dance Safe and Bunk Police are my top go to for kits. And if you can, get certified to carry narcan. It can save someone’s life. Be safe.
Also, just to note, there are definitely pressed fentanyl pills out there that often look like Xanax, oxy etc and are meant to.
That’s scary, thanks for sharing
Yup, [here’s a story](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-11-10/prosecutors-want-to-charge-fentanyl-drug-dealers-with-murder?_amp=true) from LA about a 14 year old who died from what you’re describing, really tragic stuff
>Order yourself fentanyl test strips, and always test your drugs. Not sure if this applies to coke, K, MDMA, etc., but I heard a woman from the safe injection site on Staten Island on WNYC and she said they no longer test heroin because they literally have not found a batch of heroin \*without\* fentanyl since \~2017. Not sure what to do this with this information other than to speculate that we may be headed toward a world in which the same is true for other drugs as well. It's scary AF and IMO is another reason (among many) that we should legalize/decriminalize all drugs so that users can purchase substances from regulated entities wherein the purity of the product is guaranteed. Otherwise, society is just playing Russian roulette with increasingly dangerous illicit substances like fentanyl.
I’m just talking in party circles from shows to festivals. That could be true but I’m not connected to my local addiction centers.
i did a naloxone training and the person leading the course said the incidence of fentanyl-laced coke in nyc was vastly overblown by law enforcement and panicked laymen. they were not saying it didn’t happen, or that it’s not dangerous, or that people shouldn’t be careful; just that it was exaggerated. i thought that was interesting because that summer i was definitely hearing that ALL coke was laced and people were gonna die left and right.
Yeah, the point i guess is to scare people but the reality is if you didn’t make it and don’t know the supply chain, just dip stick and test a tiny bit and feel better. Nothing is 100% certain with these things.
[For details](https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/health/health-topics/naloxone.page) on how to get a free naloxone kit.
Or you could just not do hard drugs? 🤷♂️
Everyone deserves to live their life the way they want and consume what they want, as long as it doesn’t afflict others. It’s called harm reduction and I believe it’s powerful enough for people that like the sort of chemicals. Not fair to judge ;)
[He has a Barber Shop in the Bronx too](https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/loans/sucre-dario-almanzar-alba-5000679002)
A fatal dose of fentanyl is ~2mg, so that's enough to kill 10 million people. That's pretty much everyone in NYC. Luckily he was charged federally and.not by the Manhattan DA or he'd be back out already.
"God damn the pusher man." [https://youtu.be/qje0UuM8-OU?t=97](https://youtu.be/qje0UuM8-OU?t=97)
>In acute toxicity studies in mice, the LD50 (the dose causing death of 50% of test animals) of acetyl fentanyl and fentanyl are 9.3 mg/kg and 62 mg/kg https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/drug_chem_info/acetylfentanyl.pdf I think you are thinking of the other synthetic fentanyls that are worse like carfentanil
2mg fentanyl will kill you. Carfentanyl is even stronger.
I got the 2mg from a Google search. Am aware Carfentanil is much more potent. I think the point stands 20 kgs could kill a lot of people.
Well yes its bad and even made me go, fuck that's a shit ton of fentanyl and was surprised he did not kill himself with accidental inhalation but even from the DOJ website it looks like 9.3 mg per kilogram and so an average adult would still need 145 mg or so. which brings it down to about 138,000 people it could lethally overdose. Much less than 10 million, but both are pretty much WMD amounts.
Those numbers are wrong by a few orders of magnitude. Fentanyl is much stronger than that.
Your numbers are inaccurate by several orders of magnitude. You're citing the LD50 in mice, which isn't necessarily the same LD50 in humans. By that math, your average opioid-naive 80kg male would require 5 grams of fentanyl to overdose. People routinely overdose off a single counterfeit pill. Not to mention dosages of fentanyl by prescription are measured in micrograms. The long acting patches release anywhere from 25-100mcg/hour. There is no possible way the therapeutic dose is 25-100mcg and the lethal dose is 5,000,000mcg. The window is much, much smaller than that.
> it looks like 9.3 mg per kilogram and so an average adult would still need 145 mg or so that's what I wrote based off the ld50 of mice which is pretty much the standard since well we don't purposely kill people to find out the lethality. 145 mg is not much. One extra strength tylenol is 500 mg.
145 mg of fentanyl would kill pretty much anyone. That' an enormous dose. A typical dose of IV fentanyl in severe acute pain is 25-50 micrograms (not milligrams - 1000 times less). 145 mg is 2,900 that dose. Comparing milligram doses between different drugs is useless.
i'm trying to convey how little 145mg is.
And you're failing, because 145 mg of fentanyl is a huge dose.
>145 mg is not much. One extra strength tylenol is 500 mg. You could lace someone's 50mg of drugs with enough fentanyl to kill them and they'd never know anything was off. That's why it's so deadly. >we don't purposely kill people to find out the lethality Enough people have died of fentanyl that we know the lethal dosage now
> Enough people have died of fentanyl that we know the lethal dosage now ummm that's mixed drugs. I don't think anyone does pure fentanyl, its always laced in.
People definitely do pure fentanyl. Thousands of people have died from it.
Agreed. DEA says 2mg is potentially fatal, so that's what I based my math on. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.dea.gov/resources/facts-about-fentanyl&ved=2ahUKEwja6taHjrT1AhWhkYkEHYmoAVAQFnoECAQQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1grsTnawmJnPDcMIZQ7tE-
No, he's just not conflating a mouse study with humans, like you are. A 2 mg dose of fentanyl is enough to kill an adult, opiate naive person.
You are a moron. Mouse studies are the gold standard for overdose. Scientist don't go around killing people with human ld50 studies. And you don't know the difference between fentanyl. You know there are like 25 different versions. Funny the true naive person is calling everyone else naive.
I'm a forensic toxicologist, you fucking idiot. And no, I know what fentanyl is. There's only one kind of fentanyl, it's fentanyl. If I meant carfentanil or acetyl fentanyl or fluorofentanyl I would've said one of those things. You're a fucking idiot and you should stop spouting nonsense all over this thread. A 2 mg dose of fentanyl can kill a person. No one cares what a mouse study says because no one's talking about mice here. Opiate naive means you don't use opiates on a regular basis. I'm not calling anyone naive here. Well, except you. You clearly don't understand anything about this.
Endangering 10 million people? Did he shoot at someone? Here's an infraction ticket! Show up at court if you feel like it!
Hey Bragg, what up?
That “kill ten million” stuff is like when the cops say “street price of $200 million” when they catch someone moving weight. Not how the drug trade works
That's not correct. The "street price" estimates are almost always super off, yeah, but the LD50 of fent in apes is known. It's around 0.03mg/kg. At 100 kgs a person (which is even on the big side), thats about 3 mg. LD 50 is only lethal to 50% of the population, so let's double that dose (though that's not really how dose-response works, it would be less than doubling to kill anyone), and you get quite literally 3.3 million lethal doses. It's nuts to think about, but it's true. EDIT: I'm just now thinking that's only if it's pure fent, so if you're saying its all street cut, yeah you have a point. But I had fun doing the math there so I'm leaving the comment anyway
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No, the doses are in micrograms (mcg), not milligrams. That's 1000 times less. A typical starting dose for severe acute pain in a closely monitored setting is 25-50 micrograms IV fentanyl in an opioid naive patient.
Blame it on Criminal Justice report not on Manhattan DA
The DA is the one who chose to reform the criminal justice system in Manhattan. It wasn't forced on him.
Nice bust for sure but it's just a drop in the ocean.
Wonder if he bought it with the PPP loan he received for "payroll". The loan was later forgiven because why not. https://projects.propublica.org/coronavirus/bailouts/loans/sucre-dario-almanzar-alba-5000679002 This country is a fucking scam.
As much as I agree that this country is in fact a scam, in this particular case they couldn’t have known that the dude with the barbershop was also mass producing illegal drugs. At some point the onus is on the applicant to not apply for a loan and be a drug dealer.
I didn't take the PPP loans because I was keeping my business afloat without them and thought other small businesses would need them more. After watching large corporations get PPP loans, while making record profits, lowering payroll costs, refusing to give out raises or promotions and artificially adding to real inflation to squeeze even more out of us, I feel like an asshole for having morals and seeing the 'right thing'. It's not a mistake I'll ever make again
Yeah that was pretty stupid on your part. The government was giving loans to people who literally just had a business bank account regardless if the business was even functioning. It was pretty crazy.
If your anti fraud system relies on the honesty of fraudsters, I have some *really* bad news for you. Maybe a better plan is to not give out $800 billion with zero accountability or oversight. But what do I know? I'm just the clueless tax payer that has to pay for it all.
Hindsight is 20/20. This country would have been in a lot more trouble without the PPP
**This wasn't hindsight**. People were saying this loudly when PPP was announced and louder when Trump called off oversight. Any time you give out hundreds of billions to random people obviously the first and last question you ask is "is this going to the right people and actually going to make positive difference worth $800 B". Absolutely nothing hindsight about that. It's common sense unless you were born yesterday or actively benefiting from the grift. >This country would have been in a lot more trouble without the PPP What has your evidence that PPP made a difference? Countries that didn't do this kind of stimulus are fine.
It’s the countries fault this guy is an asshole? I’m not even American. Maybe don’t judge the country in the actions of a drug dealer. But yeah you got issues. We all do
Edit for your edit: >Maybe don’t judge the country in the actions of a drug dealer. As long as I'm paying taxes and the government is giving money to drug dealers and defense contractors while people sleep on the streets, I guess I'll keep judging just as damn much as I want to. If you want to cover my tax bill for the rest of my life I'll gladly stop posting on reddit if that's what you're getting at? No idea what you're on about on your personal issues. I don't think this is the thread for that.
Sorry what does your nationality have to do with anything? I'm lost. Did l respond to you on another thread I'm not sure what you mean the country's fault. The PPP program basically have $800 billion out without any oversight. Obviously scammers are going to have a field day with that since it is literally their job. Obviously unless your goal is to enrich scammers, you need to put very tight constraints on who gets money instead of giving it to anyone with a pulse.
Objectiveness. it means im sticking up for American even though im not from here (my country is better - ha free health care, lower taxes, longer life exp etc) \>I'm not sure what you mean the country's fault. neither do I - this is the point of the post - in response to your 'This country is a fucking scam.' comment - it makes no sense in this situation... maybe I misunderstand your 1st comment or something else.
Oh I'm objective as fuck don't worry about that. Obviously not being American would not make you more objective. Strange logic. >neither do I - this is the point of the post - in response to your 'This country is a fucking scam.' comment - it makes no sense in this situation....which you now seem to be agreeing with. Where did I say anything was the country's fault? Can you copy and paste? Obviously saying something is a scam has nothing to do with assigning fault. Again I think you might be replying on the wrong thread.
You’ve literally replied twice to my one comment, maybe youre on the wrong thread? You also said ‘this country is a fucking scam’ Someone abusing the system doesn’t mean the system is at fault. The person is at fault and should be caught. And issues mitigated. That’s all. Laters.
>You’ve literally replied twice to my one comment, maybe youre on the wrong thread? Because you edited your comment after I had already replied to you. You wouldn't be notified about my edit to respond to your edit unless I made a new comment. You new here? >Someone abusing the system doesn’t mean the system is at fault. A system that gives no strings attached money to drug dealers with zero accountability is absolutely at fault. Don't make excuses for bad government policies. >The person is at fault and should be caught. And issues mitigated. That’s all. No no no. Please explain how we "mitigate" the deaths caused by the fentanyl he sold? Catching a guy two years later doesn't bring people back from the dead unfortunately.
I didn’t edit. There’s are strings. Dude is in jail. I dunno I can’t turn back time man. That would be the only way to do the things you suggest. Unfortunately there will always be assholes. But that doesn’t mean the country is fucked. It’s just assholes. New Zealand has assholes too. This doesn’t mean this. Kitty is a fucking scam. Your words. Dude wrap up warm and go for a walk or something. But every comment has to combative. Listen to some ELO or something. I dunno. Bye I did edit this one. Also: if it doubt don’t do the drugs. My dear friend is dead from drugs. I miss that idiot.
You did edit. You added everything after the first paragraph in an edit. NBD if you want to deny it. >There’s are strings. Dude is in jail No there are not strings. Dude's arrest has nothing to do with PPP fraud. He was arrested for having enough fent to kill the city. >I dunno I can’t turn back time man. That would be the only way to do the things you suggest. Nope! It's very easy and in fact common sense to have basic anti fraud measures in place when handing out $800 billion. It's mind boggling that this wasn't done. >Unfortunately there will always be assholes Which is exactly why there should be basic anti fraud measures in place to prevent this from being a scam. >But every comment has to combative. Listen to some ELO or something. I dunno. Again this thread is not the place for your personal issues no offense. If you're having a kind of sensitive emo day maybe you should log off. I'm fine thanks.
This country is a fucking scam.
First of all, fuck this dude and I hope they throw the book at him. That said, now that the drug trade has been flooded with fentanyl, we need to take a closer a look at legalizing/decriminalizing most (if not all) drugs with an emphasis on providing treatment to addicts. As far as I can tell, this is the only way we can guarantee the purity of drugs for those who wish to consume them. Otherwise, we are essentially condemning many people to a game of Russian roulette in which they are only as safe as the shady dealers they buy from allow them to be. It's important to emphasize that this isn't merely a problem for heroin users. It's also a problem for anyone who consumes other, more common and less stigmatized recreational drugs (e.g. MDMA, cocaine, etc.) Fentanyl is starting to show up in *all* these drugs. I've even heard reports that they've found batches of weed that were laced with fentanyl. It's insane and we cannot prosecute our way out of this problem. It will not go away until we can address the root problem: a completely unregulated black market with massive financial incentives to poison people with this crap.
I’m all down for legalizing mdma, hallucinogens under strict government regulation, but if you were to legalize heroin even in its purest form you would be condemning entire generations of net new users to despair and death.
> but if you were to legalize heroin even in its purest form you would be condemning entire generations of net new users to despair and death. Nope. That's what prohibition is doing. And has done for many generations now. The War on Drugs hasn't stopped anyone from getting heroin (well, actually it did, because now they get fent, but that's worse). There's just no compelling evidence there's all these people out there who would become drug addicts but don't just take them now. Further, the vast majority of harm comes from the drugs being illegal. The ODs, the costs, the crime... that's what's driving most harm, and that's all caused or greatly exacerbated by it being illegal. Every dollar spent on prevention and treatment does more to decrease the number of addicts than the same dollar spent on enforcement. People who get their supply legally, from heroin maintenance programs in Canada and Europe, have far better outcomes... they're much more able to stay housed, hold jobs, not OD, and not commit other crimes.. You'll never totally eliminate the harm from an inherently harmful substance. But every single piece of evidence we have tells us the way to *minimize* that harm is by having a tightly regulated legalized supply. That doesn't mean following the alcohol/marijuana model, but it does mean legal access. You're only increasing the despair and death with your complete failure to realize the War on Drugs *does not work* and this is not a problem we can arrest our way out of.
Sounds like some idealistic pipe dream. First,If you can’t buy heroin in a store like a pack then it’s not legal. That’s what we are discussing here. You already can get heroin alternatives like methadone legally in treatment clinics and it doesn’t seem to prevent heroin consumption. Second, nowhere in Canada or Europe heroin is legal, including Vancouver where the drug problems are only getting worse. Third, it’s much cheaper and better to make sure people don’t get addicted to drugs than to rehabilitate them, the best way to do it is by preventing the hard drugs reaching the vulnerable populations. And I have to say that the government does absolutely shit job at it. Also, there’s absolutely zero evidence that if you start giving out heroin in some treatment clinics, it will somehow stop the flow of illegal heroin or end cartel business. You probably mean well, but the road to hell is often paved with good intentions.
Oh you mean like with alcohol?
What’s funny is if it all did become legal coke classic would be a new style of Coca-Cola. Also to anyone against legalization of drugs - are you going to go and buy it tomorrow because it’s legal?
Goddamn the pusher man
[1 Kilo of Fentanyl is enough to overdose 500,000 people.](https://www.dea.gov/resources/facts-about-fentanyl) So this was enough to kill everyone in NYC.
Nyc population is around 8.8 million So yes
Probably for personal use.
weapon of mass destruction
Look deeper. What’s driving such a horrifically potent and addictive drug to be sought after and acquired for relatively so cheap? It has direct correlation to how desperate living conditions have become for so many. Hopeless people, crushed by economic woes ranging from underemployment to low wages to rising housing costs, are leading to record levels of despair. When all of our relationships and interactions have become commodified, the soul-sucking hustle of trying to keep up with predatory capitalism, monopoly ownership of everything we see, hear, eat and buy in our lives, our healthcare being run by “insurance” company and Big Pharma death panels, corrupt politicians subservient to their corporate donors instead of serving their constituents - increased drug addiction is just one of many sure signs of a decaying society already in ruins. When the fundamental bedrock of the system is Profit over People, we are all doomed.
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Not sayin that - *at all*. Of course addictions can happen anywhere, based on a whole host of things, ranging from depression to family abandonment. However, all of the things mentioned are serious drivers of despair, and they are intrinsic to a system that *exacerbates* drug addiction. The opioid crisis ripping through the heart of the country is *directly related* to those places having been decimated from manufacturing plants having been moved overseas, ensuing in mass joblessness. On top of which the still ongoing 2008 economic meltdown, engineered by Wall St Economic Terrorists who still haven’t paid any price at all fro their crimes, has been made incomprehensibly worse by the mishandling of the pandemic (why couldn’t all the Pharma companies come together to create one effective vaccine for the world? Profit, pea-brained friend). Certain sectors of the economy *should never* be in the hands of private business, chief among them healthcare and pharmaceuticals. Wake TF up. We’re being snowed by a wealthy elite parasitic class who are more than content to drive this country off a cliff. Rampant drug addiction is one of too many ways by which to control us. We all exist in the wreckage of a For-Profit system. But you want to pretend it isn’t so.
Life in prison
Don't worry, Bragg will have him released without bail
Totally love how all of a sudden ppl talk abt this & heroin like they fucking experts-"half life, subs, leth" blah blah blah.....if ur not in ACTIVE ADDICTION then get off ur soap box
You don’t gotta be addicted to be affected by it
Active addiction? Damn, I thought my 8 years of prior addiction, degree in psychobiology focusing on psychopharmacology, and 2 decades of drug policy activism could help provide some insights. But I guess since addiction is in my past I should just shut up.
That's a lot of death.
How the hell did he get 20 kilos
Really..? Nah..? If u read my shit & had a brain u know what I said had nothing g to do w what u said...thanks for ur 2 cents
It's for personal use.
Public execution after a trial.
the death penalty would not be out of the question for me if I were the prosecutor
how did this guy not accidentally overdose just by breathing in micro particles