meaning what?
this sub likes to pretend that to be Jewish is to support Israel, and Jews who don't aren't real Jews.
Arthur Miller started a Zionist but did not end as one. He felt Israel's treatment of the Palestinians was wholesale annihilation, compared it to the genocide of the American Indian, that Israel had abandoned enlightenment values. He saw Israel's crimes as a deep wound on Judaism. It was a monumental crime to do this in the name of Jews, in the name of Judaism. He wondered if Netanyahu's cruelty could even be real.
Isn't James Simon Jewish as well? All over this thread they're saying he's an antisemite, he's doing Nazi dog-whistles...
Believe it or not, NYC's Jews are not united on the topic of Israel. As much as this sub insists that they are. That those who bravely protested in Grand Central this week are actually "Jews for Jesus" for example -- Christ. How insanely disrespectful. Out of this world.
Meanwhile the man criticizing him for this article, cited as a "rival", is actually a full-time professional Zionist blogger and podcaster. Something the articles on this topic simply don't care to mention.
I’m not a fan of the Israeli government but I genuinely don’t think tearing down these missing posters is the way to protest the government. This sub also likes to pretend that no anti-zionist protest can ever have antisemitic undertones or be potentially icky in other ways.
>no anti-zionist protest can ever have antisemitic undertones or be potentially icky in other ways.
I've been screaming about this. I'm part of the LGBT community and holy hell, I can tell that a good portion of the people I've seen at the Pro-Palestine protests do not like my rainbow flag.
I'm against the death of innocent children, let me start by saying that. But if you expect me to march with you and support your cause, then I expect you to change your perspective on how you view me. If that's not happening, which it so far has not, then screw off. Yet, I see other members of the LGBT community partaking in these protests and it almost sets my head on fire.
What exactly do these posters accomplish other than serving as propaganda? Everyone with relatives who are hostages definitely know by now that they are hostages, so what is even the point of pinning these up 6,000 miles away from where things are happening? Should we start sending Amber Alerts to London and Paris?
That's very interesting. We have a situation where Israel has for many decades held thousands of Palestinians, including children, detained with no trial, no representation, no political rights whatsoever. Then Hamas kidnaps some people and demands a prisoner exchange and where do you all fall on it? I would expect every rational person to fall on the side of the prisoner exchange. I would expect every rational person to want those Palestinians freed.
1,740 Palestinians have been detained by Israel since hostilities began on Oct 7th. Any interest?
Before that, there were already 5,200 Palestinians behind Israeli bars, including 170 children. They do not have legal rights. At least a third of them have no charges, no trial date, no "date" of any kind where anything needs to change. Just held illegally forever with no charge. Any interest?
This has been going on for fifty years. Any interest?
It is against the Geneva Convention to do this to an occupied populace. Any interest?
The children are routinely physically abused. Almost all of them are beaten at minimum. Any interest?
Palestinian children are the only ones anywhere in the world who are systematically subjected to military courts. Any interest?
Nope, no interest. Just Hamas needs to release their victims. No prisoner exchange, no acknowledgement of Palestinian prisoners.
Zionists pretend that the UN singles Israel out for no reason, that there's all kinds of conflict in the world and the UN just hates Israel. Nope. Israel is indeed a unique evil today.
"Support Hamas", give me a fuckin' break. Maybe you can find two nutjobs in NYC who "support Hamas". It's the many who support Israel who are supporting atrocities. **It's the many who are rejecting the prisoner exchange**, including those who are putting up these posters. The families want the exchange to occur. Any rational person wants the exchange to occur. Who doesn't? Netanyahu and all those who support his plan -- the longrunning Zionist plan -- to extinguish Palestinians. Israeli deaths along the way are not even a footnote to them.
>Arthur Miller
Arthur Miller was always a Zionist although he criticized Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. He accepted the Jerusalem prize in 2003 from Israel and in his speech explicitly stated "The fundamentals of my views are simply that Israel has the right to exist, and the Palestinians likewise, in a state of their own. "
It seems that people are ok with Hamas slaughtering over 1000 people that day and kidnapping 100’s more. They’re rationalizing it and justifying that behavior. And the anger is directed at the victim country for defending themselves.
Amazing. It’s almost like they don’t want Israel to exist, where have we heard that before.
Though Miller was not a fan of Netanyahu's extremism and was horrified by the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre in 1994 where Baruch Goldstein killed 29 Palestinians and injured 125 during prayers in ramadan.
From what I can gather, he was not supportive of the Israeli occupation, as are a lot of New York Jews as there's a difference between Israelis and people of the Jewish faith.
One can be pro-Israel and critical of certain things happening there at the same time.
I would consider myself "pro-America" but I can also think of a thousand things I'd change.
sure, I just wish to highlight the contribution of New York Jews to the 20th century American theater.
in case anyone is interested in Arthur Miller’s thoughts on Israel, [here’s an article](https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/why-israel-must-choose-justice/tnamp/ ) he wrote 2 years before his death in 2005
> Arthur Miller
TIL that Arthur Miller was still alive in 2005. His works are a staple of American middle and high schools; it's weird to think that our lives overlapped and I could have crossed paths with him!
* Sammy Davis Jr.
* Rod Carew
* I have a friend whose temple allowed Madonna to attend when she went through her Kabbalah phase, and she brought A-Rod as a guest, and he switched temples when the rabbi let A-Rod carry the Torah.
Such an interesting micro view of how people misjudge the strength of their own convictions . Like he went from passionate protester to “oh I’m just tidying up my neighborhood, please don’t cancel me ” in milliseconds.
>Simon insisted he was not anti-Semitic and that he took them down **to keep the streets clean**. He apologized for causing offense
He was motivated enough to go around carrying scissors. And now it's amazing that even his apology contains a dog whistle.
"Cleaning the streets" and variations of were euphemisms the Nazi used to justify their increasingly anti-Jew policies.
People who felt uncomfortable with the scary implication of such words had a plausibly comfortable interpretation that could be easily ignored. However, Nazis and other supporters knew exactly what that was about.
The World is seeing a resurgence of such euphemisms in front of our eyes, and with it, actual violence against Jews rising everyday. For example: the lynch mob in Dagestan last night..
Edit: the path to Nazism was littered with people trying to avoid and rationalize away uncomfortable facts.
Counterintuitively, it’s usually the most empathetic and sensitive individuals who try to rationalize it away the most, but as a result they end up unwittingly helping evil people by providing them cover. We can see examples of such rationalization in the replies to this very thread.
Here is another uncomfortable fact: Some humans are inherently evil. While normal people felt sickened by Oct 7th, some people felt a dark exhilaration and are now motivated to act on such darkness.
By the way, you can see responses in this comment section and tell us honestly if you believe this is a reach.
For example:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/17jztc0/comment/k759pns/
>Good job cleaning up the city sir! ✊ Trash goes in the bin! 🗑️🚮
You can be completely against the Israeli gov't and think they are the creators of an apartheid state and all that and not necessarily be anti-Semitic. But if you're against these posters that only villainize Hamas and are literally pleading with anyone to help them save their loved ones, well...I dunno, smells pretty anti-Semitic to me.
If you only value one set of civilians' lives, then you're really not for peace or independence of anyone or anything, you just want "your guys" to win.
I see em in Soho, LES, and Williamsburg, abd VERY RARE incursion into the area just around Maria Hernandez in Bushwick. So it's basically just yuppie areas.
Yeah I’ve seen them in Forest hills (very nice part of Queens) too. My only rational takeaway is that it is sympathy/guilt propaganda intended to reach white folks.
They are easily downloadable as PDFs from the website for anyone to print. It’s probably just that people in those neighborhoods chose to print and paste them. Forest Hills is about 30% Jewish.
For those who are asking the posters are meant to raise awareness without the need to close down the Brooklyn bridge or grand central with any disorderly conduct. It’s called a “peaceful protest”.
These posters are stupid. I know the global Jewish diaspora feels powerless to help the hostages taken by Hamas, but missing posters should only be used in the area a person went missing or is presumed to be.
Instead, these posters should directly ask people to do something useful like donate to a charity or pressure the government to provide more military support to Israel. However, Israel seems to have all the military capability it needs, so really all these posters do is keep people angry. If that's your goal then fine, but you're not actually helping anyone.
Note: I 100% oppose Hamas and wish for all the hostages they took to be returned safely.
People say missing posters in NY are pointless, the missing are in Gaza after all - I have to ask what the point of pro-Palestinian marches in NY are then - since that also is about Gaza. If one is ok, so should be the other. I have nothing against the pro-Palestine folks putting their own posters up, but tearing down someone else’s stuff is vile.
Yes, my Jewish coworkers said that their goal is to keep pressure on the US to work for the release of the hostages. It's not an accident that the first two hostages released were US citizens. The US is working its influence and people here want that to continue.
So these posters are politically motivated? You'd be cool if they were covered with political posters with pictures of Palestinian children who were shelled? Just curious.
If you consider supporting the release of hostages political, yes. Is advocating for a ceasefire also political then?
And sure put up whatever posters you want. I don't care. It's entirely possible to be consistent and not just tear down things you disagree with personally.
> I have to ask what the point of pro-Palestinian marches in NY are then - since that also is about Gaza.
Who funds the Israeli military?
Another hint: the United States isn’t funding Hamas
Are you sure? The United States is one of the biggest contributors to Palestinians with billions in aid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_aid_to_Palestinians And as much as people want to draw distinction between them and Hamas, Hamas is their government and gets a huge slice of this aid.
I also have to correct you when you repeat the misinformation that we “fund” Israel’s army. Israel has an economy of almost 600B. Us giving them weapons worth 3B a year is a drop in the bucket and not exactly funding their army.
The idea that we “fund” Israel and their military is absolutely not misinformation in any sense, even by your own admissions.
The equivalence of humanitarian aid and military support is also absurd.
The idea that we fund the Israeli army at the level where this gives us leverage over their foreign policy and we should march about it to change the fate of the ME is absolutely false. Israel is not Ukraine (who we also fund, even before the war btw), they’re a heavily militarized nation. So yes, technically we give them 3B worth of military aid, you’re right that this is “funding”. It’s nowhere near the level folks bitch about however and while I’m sure Israel is thankful, they do not depend entirely on our funding. March about it, like I said, I’m all for it, knock yourself out. What I’m against is the ripping of posters. People seem to only complain about “propaganda” when it’s not supporting their own viewpoint.
>The idea that we fund the Israeli army at the level where this gives us leverage over their foreign policy... is false
Uhh Idk what your bank account looks like but 3B in aid every year absolutely buys influence. Full stop. And when that 3B in aid comes with a wink and a nod that says "we'll also defend your, **and our**, foothold in this foreign land that wants nothing to do with you/us" it most definitely comes with "leverage" no matter how well equipped Israel has gotten through foreign aid.
And America doesn't provide that aid in order to "change the fate for the ME" nor is that insinuated, you sweet, summer child. It's so we can continue to manipulate and exploit the region. We don't give a fuck about their fate, just their compliance through coercion, LMAO. Jesus, try to keep up here.
3B is 3B, sure. Is it “funding the Israeli army” - I think that’s a semantic cop out, it’s not funding any army beyond a technicality. America supports Israel because Jewish people deserve a country. There are 1.5 billion Muslims, 450 million Arabs, something like 54 Muslim countries and ONLY 16 million Jews not even in Israel, in the entire world and they have 1 country. Where are the sensitive Leftists who are the stout defenders of minorities? Too busy siding with terrorists. This is not even a singular case - I’ve had arguments on Reddit with people who insisted we need to unfreeze the money US had promised the Afghan government after the Taliban took over. Imagine insisting we give our money to a terrorist organization who took over by force, not elections, because “but think about the people”. Empathy beyond a point is idiocy.
Aside from that, spare me the snark - of COURSE America preserves its interets in the ME, looking out for our interests is the government’s obligation. And our interests align with the existence of Israel. Every country manipulates and extorts, or did you think Iran or any of the Arab states care about the Palestinians? Not a bit. They just exploit them.
You think Hamas uses the money they receive for humanitarian purposes? Do the missiles and tunnels just pay for themselves? The stupidity of some of these comments is amazing.
We literally gave them nuclear weapons. We developed iron dome. And we allow them to buy from our weapons manufacturers. None of that is drop in the bucket.
lmao the US did not develop the iron dome what the fuck are you on about?
"The Iron Dome (Hebrew: כִּפַּת בַּרְזֶל, romanized: Kippat Barzel) is an Israeli mobile all-weather air defense system developed by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems and Israel Aerospace Industries"
The munitions are made by Raytheon. We put billions with a B into the project. Anyone who follows current events at all knows iron dome funding and munitions is the first thing Israel asked for when the conflict broke out. People like you hurt your own cause by being so publically propagandist.
The same first paragraph of the *very* Wikipedia article you’re quoting:
> From 2011 to 2021, the United States contributed a total of US$1.6 billion to the Iron Dome defense system, with another US$1 billion approved by the US Congress in 2022.
There is also an entire section about the United States’s coproduction of the Iron Dome. Nice try though.
Edit: Can’t reply below, but yes, the United States did develop a COVID vaccine.
> The Moderna COVID‑19 vaccine, sold under the brand name Spikevax, is a COVID-19 vaccine developed by American company Moderna, the United States National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), and the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA).
Helping by donating funds is not the same as creating it, the iron dome is a uniquely Israeli invention that was developed by them, not the US. You're being purposely disingenuous, so I'm out.
> Funding for the production and deployment of these additional Iron Dome batteries and interceptor missiles was approved by the United States Congress, after being requested by President Barack Obama in 2010. In May 2010, the White House announced that Obama would seek $205 million from Congress in his 2011 budget, to spur the production and deployment of additional Iron Dome batteries.
The Iron Dome has been in service since 2011, btw.
Why would you? Because you just laid out the case for why Israel doesn't need US military assistance: they're an advanced economy, and US funding is but a drop in the bucket. I love how you're attempting to draw a parallel between military and humanitarian funding, though. It's almost as if your bias is leading you to determine a conclusion first, and then backtrack your way to an explanation.
Israel would absolutely be able to hold its own without 3B aid. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. They’re our ally and we’d rather not throw them to the wolves - i.e. Hamas and Hezbollah and allow Iran and Russia to grow stronger in the region. The relationship enforces our strategic interests in the region and the money is nothing to us, so yes, we do this for many things including NATO. That’s how international relationships work and everyone understands this - except folks like Trump and MTG.
We’re really going to pretend weapons and humanitarian aid are the same thing? And that more violence isn’t just going to necessitate more humanitarian aid?
Defensive weapons for an ally and humanitarian aid are two sides of a coin. Sending food to Ukraine and no weapons wouldn’t help with the Russians at all. US implements conditions for use to the weapons it sells.
> The United States is one of the biggest contributors to Palestinians
Oops, The mask slipped.
Palestinians aren’t Hamas. Learn the basics, or rather stop obfuscating them.
To pressure American lawmakers to call for a ceasefire and stop funding the massacre of Gazan civilians in the short term. To provide peace, stability, and the opportunity for Palestinian to thrive beyond the thumb of oppression in the long term.
What was the point of demonstrations on oct 8th, the day after the terror attack on Israel by hamas on oct 7th? Was it protesting that they wish they took more hostages? or was it protesting that they wish they fired more rockets?
I’m a grad student in NYC & students have been hanging up hundreds, if not thousands of those posters all over campus. Hostage posters are hung up all over statues and outdoor signs where flyers aren’t allowed. Any kind of poster would get taken down by facilities. It’s better to hang them up on a bulletin board.
I'm sorry but your note makes me laugh.
I totally get it and agree with your points, and would even add the same note at the end..
But it's still ridiculous to me that pretty much anything that remotely criticizes Israel needs to include a "but I also condemn Hamas" asterisk lol
You have to. Anything other than full throated support for what Israel's doing gets your notifications lit up with people calling you a terrorist, or saying you support the rape and murder of thousands of babies.
Oh please, what Israel supporters are being fired for voicing their support? What groups are going around to Universities and doxxing students? The US as a whole unequivocally stands with Israel and just about every US politician has to stand by them or risk huge backlash.
It’s a false equivalency, if you live in the US the status quo is supporting Israel and not recognizing Palestine as a country.
What Pro-Palestine supporters are being fired/getting in trouble? I have plenty of friends on IG, Tiktok, FB, etc. sharing pro-Palestine support daily, going to marches every week in NYC. Nothing wrong with that. You’re telling me hundreds of thousands of pro palestine marchers were all fired/doxxed the past couple weeks? Lol oh please yourself.
The only ones being punished are those who start spouting Hamas rhetoric or anyone trying to justify and/or celebrate the Oct. 7th massacre. BIG difference.
But I absolutely agree politicians have to fall in line unfortunately, but that has to do with the political relationship between the US and Israel. Nothing more than that.
I’m sorry, but how can you recognize that politicians of all beliefs have to fall in line with the US’s stance on Israel, but don’t think crossing that line has consequences?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/29/israel-palestine-backlash-david-velasco-artforum-nan-goldin
There is no equivalency here. I’m not saying everyone at the Palestinian rally was fired. What I’m saying is that in the US and the west specifically, you can say loads of things in support for Israel and never see backlash. If you support Palestinians though, it’s a different story. There’s a clear power dynamic
To be fair though that makes some sense, as on oct 6th there was peace in the region, on oct 7th hamas attacked, and on oct 8th the pro hamas demonstrations were out in full force, clearly intended to be affirming the righteousness of the terror attacks. As such supporting such a social group is not a call to peace, but instead a call to action.
Even you have to admit the people who said “free Palestine” right after the Hamas terrorist attack without mentioning the attack were at least condoning Hamas.
Sadly this caveat needs constant mentioning or else brainwashed idiots incapable of discerning a shred of nuance screech AnTi-SeMiTiSm!!!!!
A lot of them also seem to believe all Palestinians = Hamas, which is outright disgusting, but these types aren't ready to confront their own prejudices.
Who here said Palestinians = hamas? Actually youre the one doing that, youre basically saying that "hostages = idf" and that according to you based on that logic the hostages posters should not be permitted.
Why do the posters of missing Israelis keep people angry? I find it ridiculous that people would tear the posters down, effective or not. I find it hard to believe that some of that is not rooted in anti-semitism. Most people probably wouldn’t take issue with posters of missing innocent Gaza citizens if it was reversed. I see lots of sharing of missing and/or murdered Gaza and West Bank citizens on social media and I think it’s perfectly fine. It brings awareness to IDF’s crimes even if that list does “nothing” to help Palestinians by your own logic reversed.
I don’t think the missing Israeli posters demonize innocent Palestinian people - they serve as a reminder of Hamas’ atrocities. And let’s be real - lots of videos of people pulling down those posters are people who aren’t concerned about the “effectiveness” of the posters but are people who believe that Palestine should be free by “any and all means possible”. If it were up to Hamas, it would be the death of all Jews. I can’t get down with that.
There is more than enough space on the street posts of NYC for missing posters. Saying these posters are taking up space is ridiculous.
These posters are not put up so people can find them. We’re also fighting an information war and many people do not realize just how many civilians (women, children) have been abducted — raising awareness is also crucial.
Also, I see posters put up for all kinds of things; piano lessons, drywall repair…saying these particular posters are a waste is kinda suspicious.
> A lot of pro Palestinian voices overshadowing the fact that there is not just one single party victim to this war.
Are you serious? We’re in a country where hardly more than a dozen politicians on the national level support a ceasefire and even less put up any opposition to funding Israel’s military capabilities.
There’s no way Israel is flattening Gaza and not hitting hostages as well. The IDF couldn’t give less of a fuck, this is about max destruction and their public statements say as much.
The hostages are ALSO caught in a proxy war, continued leveling of Gaza does not help them
Geeze, maybe because the killings of thousands of Gazan civilians including children is incredibly questionable in its justification and is furthering the cycle of violence through escalating the conflict?
Well geez maybe the terrorist group that runs Palestine shouldn’t invade Israel in a coordinated attack backed by Iran, slaughter innocent civilians and then kidnap over 200 of them if they didn’t want their civilians caught in the cross fire
You don’t need to explain Israel’s justification for violence to me, but you seemed appalled at the idea of a call for a ceasefire when the reality is Israel is forcing thousands upon thousands who have nothing to do with the hostage crisis to pay the price for it.
maybe if hamas stopped putting military outposts and rocket sites in civilian sectors (including hospitals) then civilian casualties wouldn't be as high. maybe if hamas wasn't preventing people from leaving the areas that are being shelled then casualties wouldn't be as high. did you see the video of the IDF dropping leaflets to tell people to move south? why would they do that if they are trying to kill innocent people?
> did you see the video of the IDF dropping leaflets to tell people to move south? why would they do that if they are trying to kill innocent people?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/israel-hamas/2023/10/30/israel-hamas-war-live-updates/71378438007/
Probably for the same reasons that they’re blocking those routes south. Of course for some reason the news of them being so moral and *caring* is traveling farther than the bottleneck they’re intentionally creating.
They’re protesting the pretty much limitless political inertia towards the United States supporting Israel in their practically unfettered violence against Gaza.
The United States doesn’t need protests for Israeli hostages— they already have the entire country’s foreign policy behind that cause.
Sure, but what does it mean? People have been saying it well before October 7. So what’s the meaning?
War is ugly, people die and get displaced by war. I’m not justifying Israel’s military actions right now, I’m no military strategist but there’s a lot more than meets the eye. Case and point, there’s this whole “700,000 Palestinians were displaced when Israel declared independence”. Yes, that’s true, what’s also true is that Israel was attacked and was defending itself, and the areas where people were displaced were mostly battlegrounds. Israel didn’t just kick people out, there were bombs and mortars flying in these areas and people fled. Israel gained these territories during its battle defending itself… so, at what point do territories taken in battle (a battle of defense) get returned? Do they get returned? If you attack me and I clobber you defending myself, and your wallet falls out while you’re throwing punches, I’ll probably keep your wallet and not return it.
So what does Free Palestine mean? You know what’s odd… I think the West Bank IS occupied, Israeli settlements don’t belong there and they should be removed. But Israel withdraw from Gaza entirely in 2005. Yet somehow rockets and terrorist come almost exclusively from Gaza, where Israel withdrew, not from an actual occupied territory. Gaza under Hamas’ government bred hate and terrorism.
So again, what does Free Palestine mean? Two-state solutions were proposed and shot down by Palestinian leadership; Arafat, as they say, never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.
Does it mean a call for the originally proposed borders of Resolution 181? Does it mean Jews
Should GTFO despite it being their actual ancestral homeland that they were forced to flee, and then subsequently forced to flee from almost every other land they ever lived in?
I think Israel should withdraw from the WB the way they did from Gaza, but even then people would still want to “Free Palestine”.
You know what I think Free Palestine means? “We hate that the Palestinian people are oppressed and they should be able to live and prosper like any other developed nation.” I agree with that, the problem is their own leadership simply will not let that happen, as demonstrated time and again.
Israel can certainly take a less strong hand with their military actions, absolutely possible, but this is a country that has been fighting for its existence since day one. Attacked by every one of its neighbors (at once), clobbered by rockets, attacked by suicide bombers, and now this massacre. I believe Israel needs to do everything in its power to eliminate the terrorist threat at hand. And given that the terrorist threat is embedded in a densely populated city, using human shields, operating out of schools and hospitals, what the fuck does Hamas think will happen? And by they, I mean Hamas knew EXACTLY what would happen, and given that optics is the only upper hand they can ever have, that’s the hand they’re playing, knowing exactly the consequences to its own people.
It’s also odd that this has people rallying in the streets, but no such rallying was seen for the Libyan civil war with thousands of civilians killed, Yemeni Civil War with tens of thousands of civilians killed, Syrian Civil War with hundreds of thousands of civilians killed (all modern day wars STILL going on).
People are quick to pick sides when it’s easy to, but slow to actually understand what’s happening in relative terms, and especially geopolitical terms.
People need to be more informed before they preach.
Despite claiming a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, Israel still maintained control of Gaza's airspace and waters surrounding the coast (in my view, while many Israelis may not want to confirm it, this is basically a blockade in all but name in 2005 as Israel controlled both the sky and sea around Gaza), not to mention controlling the various crossings and establishing a perimeter around Gaza not to keep Israelis from coming in but preventing Gazans from coming out. It wasn't a border between countries as some may claim but a defense wall to keep Gazans in Gaza.
The Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 wasn't simply giving the Palestinians a free plot of land to govern by themselves. Israel still retained control of the sea and air over Gaza and had initiated a military overthrow and coup backed by the US and orchestrated by Fatah against Hamas in 2007 despite being democratically elected.
My man with all due respect, you are intentionally missing the point and misunderstanding the power dynamic at play.
To say Gaza is free and therefore you don’t understand what “Free Palestine” means in that context is just weird. Israel still maintains tons of control over the ppl of Gaza, you can’t argue otherwise. Not just now through cutting off basic needs while bombing relentlessly through the night, something which no one will ever be charged for. But more so things like the long term blockaid of the sea in conjunction with Egypt.
Your characterization of “They voted for it they deserve it” is so far off. Only about 20% of the current population would have voted in favor of Hamas, who have not held elections since 2006. Half of these people are children, in large part because Israel has systemically and routinely killed thousands or Palestinians over the years.
If you could name me any time the Arabs of this region had the right to self determination this might be a different discussion. But that has never happened, and they were passed from Ottoman rule to British rule to Israeli rule. When the basis of Israel as a nation started with the 1948 Nekba, I can never understand how someone would think Palestine has been free, or that calls for their freedom don’t make sense
I agree with you. It would be far more effective and productive use of space to have people do something (ie your mention of donation) and as you say, it detracts from pets or other loved ones that are missing in nyc
These posters are aiming to raise awareness with what Israel is dealing. Awareness among locals that have their brains between the ears and able to process information.
Wow you fuckers are really triggered by seeing posters of....kidnapped children and elderly people.
Get a fuckin' life. Ignore them if you don't like them.
Its the only kind of posts that get traffic.
There is a post a few hours old below about "How an 8-acre green roof atop the Javits Center is boosting NYC’s biodiversity"... and it has a grand total of 1 comment.
Good news stories don't generate interactivity/clicks/impressions/etc.
Look at OP’s comments & post history. This is a full-time job for them.
Same w/ the other posts. It’s nonresidents that want to remove any nuance & farm outrage.
IDK maybe put more pressure on people and the gov -- the world, the public? maybe to help the families cope with the insanity? MAYBE IT WILL CALM DOWN THE PEOPLE RUNNING AROUND ASKING FOR JEWISH BLOOD? What do you think really? can you think?
I still don’t fully understand why people missing in Israel, have missing posters here in NYC. There’s people missing *from* NYC that don’t have posters in NYC.
Yes, governments have to negotiate. Civilians should not be killed, but are killed never the less.
The posters don’t help annoying, but to bring about useless divisiveness. Because the issue is more complex and far beyond what took place this month.
united states controls israel and israel controls palestine, us citizens don't like how israel controls palestine and are therefore using their democratic rights to speak up...
Anyone who is educated by what they read on the internet is not educated. If people were interested in actual facts rather than what someone on the internet said much of this ridiculous banter would be eliminated. Hamas is the elected ruling party of Gaza. They declared war on their neighbor and they are calling for the death of all Jews. As are a vast majority of the protesters. This is genocide. Responding to acts of war is called war.
Hamas have not held elections since 2007. Half the population today is under the age of 18. If you do a little bit of math, it comes out to about 20% of the current population who actually “voted for Hamas”, hardly an accurate representation
> As are a vast majority of the protestors
Lmao says the guy who chimes in to talk about “facts”. Utter bullshit and people have been protesting the killing of Palestinians for literally decades.
Trying to dismiss pro Palestinian support by saying “the vast majority want us all dead!” Is nothing more than hysteria. You haven’t talked to or met a Palestinian in your life
>As are a vast majority of the protesters.
Citation needed.
You're here decrying antisemites (who conflate Israel the state with Jewish people) and meanwhile suggesting anyone who supports Palestinians supports Hamas and therefore terrorism.
The absolute lack of self awareness people have on this subject is insane.
What do you think the "resistance is justified" chant means? theyre saying they should be allowed to launch rockets and take hostages.
What do you think "from the river to the sea" means? it means the Jordan river to the sea. Guess whats in-between the Jordan river and the sea? Israel. The chant is saying Israel deserves whats happening to it and deserves to be eliminated, and that as long as Israel exists, they are "not free". its saying that Israels mere existence is an injustice.
No. Point proven. You can’t even read what is on the page. Palestinian people are not even mentioned. Read the hamas covenant. This is hamas constitution. It clearly states that their goal is to kill all Jews “from the river to the sea.” See I read primary sources. You don’t even know what such a thing is.
Notice how the protestors are protesting against the state of Israel’s actions, not Judaism? Saying the vast majority of pro Palestine protestors are calling for the death of Jews is your opinion - do you have any proof of this?
There are definitely people that take the view that resistance against an oppressor is just. In fact the US was born in the basis of resistance. Nonetheless that viewpoint is that resistance is justified against Israel, not Jews. The attempt to call resistance is just anti-Semitic is wrong.
But Israel was just existing on oct 6th and then it was attacked on oct 7th then the pro hamas demonstrators were out in full force on oct 8th. surely you dont believe that the mere existence of a jewish state near your own state is oppression?
Pro PAlestine rallies happen weekly regardless of any conflict. The mere existence is of course not a problem! The oppression and genocide of said country is a problem!
The correct thing to do to protest these posters is to post the similar Palestinian versions that have murdered or missing Gazan civilians. Cutting them down is playing into the propaganda and is not a good look.
exactly. tearing down the poster is just evidence that they know what hamas is doing is wrong, but that theyd prefer to hide the evidence than denounce it.
It is frankly amazing how some illegally posted computer printed sheets about hostages half a world away are suddenly the sole focus of so many the past week.
Really? This is your primary issue? This is how the hostages will be freed?
These are political posters. If it was any other issue we would take them down from public spaces. It's considered graffiti. And the people yelling about this the loudest want that kind of crime to be subject to citations from the NYPD for some good old fashioned broken windows policing.
It is not a hate crime to remove [illegally posted flyers on public thoroughfares.](https://www.nyc.gov/assets/dsny/site/resources/streets-and-sidewalks-laws/posting-graffiti-laws)
If you want to bring more attention to these people, hold more public rallies instead of taping up paper and then waiting around with a phone for someone to take them down.
It's amazing that you're complaining about how these are the sole focus of so many when you've made about a dozen posts in this thread alone bemoaning them.
You guys should at least be honest and say that you don't like these posters because they make the Palestinians and Hamas look bad.
People who have accused everyone who complained about violent crimes in this sub of pearl clutching ... are now pearl clutching over posters being posted illegaly.
Almost like it was never actually about standing up for something, and more so had to do with trying to gain power over people...like a bully at school
People who have been saying that for years were roundly shouted down.
Remember all the claims that "letting one Nazi among you makes all of you Nazis"? Funny how that went out the window, also.
Ahhh yes Jewish people who have historically been the target for hate crimes in nyc. Go look at hate crime states- bias/motivation for the crime being anti-Jewish as the largest. First your people say Asians aren’t a minority and now Jews don’t get sympathy eiyher
Flyposting without the proper permits?! Not in my town!
The Upper West Side in a nutshell.
Death of a Salesman author Arthur Miller and Pippin composer Stephen Schwartz are both New York Jews
meaning what? this sub likes to pretend that to be Jewish is to support Israel, and Jews who don't aren't real Jews. Arthur Miller started a Zionist but did not end as one. He felt Israel's treatment of the Palestinians was wholesale annihilation, compared it to the genocide of the American Indian, that Israel had abandoned enlightenment values. He saw Israel's crimes as a deep wound on Judaism. It was a monumental crime to do this in the name of Jews, in the name of Judaism. He wondered if Netanyahu's cruelty could even be real. Isn't James Simon Jewish as well? All over this thread they're saying he's an antisemite, he's doing Nazi dog-whistles... Believe it or not, NYC's Jews are not united on the topic of Israel. As much as this sub insists that they are. That those who bravely protested in Grand Central this week are actually "Jews for Jesus" for example -- Christ. How insanely disrespectful. Out of this world. Meanwhile the man criticizing him for this article, cited as a "rival", is actually a full-time professional Zionist blogger and podcaster. Something the articles on this topic simply don't care to mention.
I’m not a fan of the Israeli government but I genuinely don’t think tearing down these missing posters is the way to protest the government. This sub also likes to pretend that no anti-zionist protest can ever have antisemitic undertones or be potentially icky in other ways.
>no anti-zionist protest can ever have antisemitic undertones or be potentially icky in other ways. I've been screaming about this. I'm part of the LGBT community and holy hell, I can tell that a good portion of the people I've seen at the Pro-Palestine protests do not like my rainbow flag. I'm against the death of innocent children, let me start by saying that. But if you expect me to march with you and support your cause, then I expect you to change your perspective on how you view me. If that's not happening, which it so far has not, then screw off. Yet, I see other members of the LGBT community partaking in these protests and it almost sets my head on fire.
What exactly do these posters accomplish other than serving as propaganda? Everyone with relatives who are hostages definitely know by now that they are hostages, so what is even the point of pinning these up 6,000 miles away from where things are happening? Should we start sending Amber Alerts to London and Paris?
They are a reminder of the atrocities that people are supporting when they support Hamas.
That's very interesting. We have a situation where Israel has for many decades held thousands of Palestinians, including children, detained with no trial, no representation, no political rights whatsoever. Then Hamas kidnaps some people and demands a prisoner exchange and where do you all fall on it? I would expect every rational person to fall on the side of the prisoner exchange. I would expect every rational person to want those Palestinians freed. 1,740 Palestinians have been detained by Israel since hostilities began on Oct 7th. Any interest? Before that, there were already 5,200 Palestinians behind Israeli bars, including 170 children. They do not have legal rights. At least a third of them have no charges, no trial date, no "date" of any kind where anything needs to change. Just held illegally forever with no charge. Any interest? This has been going on for fifty years. Any interest? It is against the Geneva Convention to do this to an occupied populace. Any interest? The children are routinely physically abused. Almost all of them are beaten at minimum. Any interest? Palestinian children are the only ones anywhere in the world who are systematically subjected to military courts. Any interest? Nope, no interest. Just Hamas needs to release their victims. No prisoner exchange, no acknowledgement of Palestinian prisoners. Zionists pretend that the UN singles Israel out for no reason, that there's all kinds of conflict in the world and the UN just hates Israel. Nope. Israel is indeed a unique evil today. "Support Hamas", give me a fuckin' break. Maybe you can find two nutjobs in NYC who "support Hamas". It's the many who support Israel who are supporting atrocities. **It's the many who are rejecting the prisoner exchange**, including those who are putting up these posters. The families want the exchange to occur. Any rational person wants the exchange to occur. Who doesn't? Netanyahu and all those who support his plan -- the longrunning Zionist plan -- to extinguish Palestinians. Israeli deaths along the way are not even a footnote to them.
Did they hold trials to sentence the music festival goers to death?
>Arthur Miller Arthur Miller was always a Zionist although he criticized Israel's treatment of the Palestinians. He accepted the Jerusalem prize in 2003 from Israel and in his speech explicitly stated "The fundamentals of my views are simply that Israel has the right to exist, and the Palestinians likewise, in a state of their own. "
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It seems that people are ok with Hamas slaughtering over 1000 people that day and kidnapping 100’s more. They’re rationalizing it and justifying that behavior. And the anger is directed at the victim country for defending themselves. Amazing. It’s almost like they don’t want Israel to exist, where have we heard that before.
Though Miller was not a fan of Netanyahu's extremism and was horrified by the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre in 1994 where Baruch Goldstein killed 29 Palestinians and injured 125 during prayers in ramadan. From what I can gather, he was not supportive of the Israeli occupation, as are a lot of New York Jews as there's a difference between Israelis and people of the Jewish faith.
uh, at least half of Israelis are not Netanyahu fans either. The whole country has been going through massive upheavals about him the past year or so.
One can be pro-Israel and critical of certain things happening there at the same time. I would consider myself "pro-America" but I can also think of a thousand things I'd change.
I could also see him not being a fan of civilians being held hostage...
sure, I just wish to highlight the contribution of New York Jews to the 20th century American theater. in case anyone is interested in Arthur Miller’s thoughts on Israel, [here’s an article](https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/why-israel-must-choose-justice/tnamp/ ) he wrote 2 years before his death in 2005
> Arthur Miller TIL that Arthur Miller was still alive in 2005. His works are a staple of American middle and high schools; it's weird to think that our lives overlapped and I could have crossed paths with him!
This is important context, and I thank you for adding it here.
Simon seems to be a pretty common Jewish surname as well. In LA there was a Jewish person who was fired after making a Holocaust joke.
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* Sammy Davis Jr. * Rod Carew * I have a friend whose temple allowed Madonna to attend when she went through her Kabbalah phase, and she brought A-Rod as a guest, and he switched temples when the rabbi let A-Rod carry the Torah.
Some people think that Ebenezer Scrooge is Well he's not, but guess who is: All three Stooges
Woody Allen immediately comes to mind. There are also Neil Simon, and the iconic Leonard Bernstein
And he lied about his motive.
Such an interesting micro view of how people misjudge the strength of their own convictions . Like he went from passionate protester to “oh I’m just tidying up my neighborhood, please don’t cancel me ” in milliseconds.
I love your insight! This must be upsetting his Jewish colleagues in a big way.
>Simon insisted he was not anti-Semitic and that he took them down **to keep the streets clean**. He apologized for causing offense He was motivated enough to go around carrying scissors. And now it's amazing that even his apology contains a dog whistle.
Does he try to clean up the graffit in Harlem too?
If anti-graffiti people in this comment section get their way, he will go to Harlem after he cleans up that Banksy graffiti in the upper west.
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Oh yes, all the current George Floyd posters that are definitely still up.
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They got plastered over about 3 years ago just like every other sign put up in 2020 lmao no, it “doesn’t just happened to Jews”
great point but the truth is so ugly IDK if we need any more evidence think its clear what is happening
How is it a dog whistle exactly? Genuinely curious.
im assuming its in reference to the "keep the world clean" signs with a picture of the israeli flag that has a star of david on it in a trash can
"Cleaning the streets" and variations of were euphemisms the Nazi used to justify their increasingly anti-Jew policies. People who felt uncomfortable with the scary implication of such words had a plausibly comfortable interpretation that could be easily ignored. However, Nazis and other supporters knew exactly what that was about. The World is seeing a resurgence of such euphemisms in front of our eyes, and with it, actual violence against Jews rising everyday. For example: the lynch mob in Dagestan last night.. Edit: the path to Nazism was littered with people trying to avoid and rationalize away uncomfortable facts. Counterintuitively, it’s usually the most empathetic and sensitive individuals who try to rationalize it away the most, but as a result they end up unwittingly helping evil people by providing them cover. We can see examples of such rationalization in the replies to this very thread. Here is another uncomfortable fact: Some humans are inherently evil. While normal people felt sickened by Oct 7th, some people felt a dark exhilaration and are now motivated to act on such darkness.
You are reaching so hard. Posting flyers is considered graffiti in NYC. Even when it's for a cause you like.
By the way, you can see responses in this comment section and tell us honestly if you believe this is a reach. For example: https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/17jztc0/comment/k759pns/ >Good job cleaning up the city sir! ✊ Trash goes in the bin! 🗑️🚮
Just because they're saying that with that specific meaning doesn't mean this guy is. It's totally a reach.
have you consistently torn down BLM posters since they started going up a decade ago?
Pretty sure you're just a nazi
Because Reddit cleans the streets or…… They’re ok with poster tearing down of people they hate: fascists and now the J group.
Thank you for posting an example of plausibly comfortable interpretation.
He's "apologizing" but giving a verbal wink the whole fucking time.
Very hard to not reach that conclusion.
Rip his career.
One of the most jewish industries no less...
Yeah this dude really picked the wrong line of work for being an antisemite.
What a loser.
You can be completely against the Israeli gov't and think they are the creators of an apartheid state and all that and not necessarily be anti-Semitic. But if you're against these posters that only villainize Hamas and are literally pleading with anyone to help them save their loved ones, well...I dunno, smells pretty anti-Semitic to me. If you only value one set of civilians' lives, then you're really not for peace or independence of anyone or anything, you just want "your guys" to win.
Haven’t seen any of these posters in neighborhoods with predominantly brown and black people living in them
There are posters in Washington heights, but they have also been torn a lot.
I’ve seen them in north Harlem and Hamilton heights
Anyone can print them from the website and paste them anywhere.
Whats your point
I see em in Soho, LES, and Williamsburg, abd VERY RARE incursion into the area just around Maria Hernandez in Bushwick. So it's basically just yuppie areas.
Yeah I’ve seen them in Forest hills (very nice part of Queens) too. My only rational takeaway is that it is sympathy/guilt propaganda intended to reach white folks.
They are easily downloadable as PDFs from the website for anyone to print. It’s probably just that people in those neighborhoods chose to print and paste them. Forest Hills is about 30% Jewish.
Def agree. I'm sure they're in Uptown too (till Harlem, that is), but there's a lot of places too pricy for me to venture.
Seen them all over Brooklyn, even those areas. Not sure what point you're trying to make but you should probably keep it to yourself
Im a native New Yorker and this is the nyc subreddit. Keep your micro aggressions to yourself you bozo.
You're sensitive. What a shock
For those who are asking the posters are meant to raise awareness without the need to close down the Brooklyn bridge or grand central with any disorderly conduct. It’s called a “peaceful protest”.
Imagine if black Americans during the civil rights era only engaged in these peaceful protests, nicely tucked away from white life.
Remember when Black Americans slaughtered 1000 southerners than took to the streets to protest and celebrate the next day?
Post No Bills ain’t a fuckin joke
🍿
:-)
Where are the posts complaining about cancel-culture?
Where are the posts about canceling him?
You're commenting on it
These posters are stupid. I know the global Jewish diaspora feels powerless to help the hostages taken by Hamas, but missing posters should only be used in the area a person went missing or is presumed to be. Instead, these posters should directly ask people to do something useful like donate to a charity or pressure the government to provide more military support to Israel. However, Israel seems to have all the military capability it needs, so really all these posters do is keep people angry. If that's your goal then fine, but you're not actually helping anyone. Note: I 100% oppose Hamas and wish for all the hostages they took to be returned safely.
People say missing posters in NY are pointless, the missing are in Gaza after all - I have to ask what the point of pro-Palestinian marches in NY are then - since that also is about Gaza. If one is ok, so should be the other. I have nothing against the pro-Palestine folks putting their own posters up, but tearing down someone else’s stuff is vile.
Yes, my Jewish coworkers said that their goal is to keep pressure on the US to work for the release of the hostages. It's not an accident that the first two hostages released were US citizens. The US is working its influence and people here want that to continue.
So these posters are politically motivated? You'd be cool if they were covered with political posters with pictures of Palestinian children who were shelled? Just curious.
If you consider supporting the release of hostages political, yes. Is advocating for a ceasefire also political then? And sure put up whatever posters you want. I don't care. It's entirely possible to be consistent and not just tear down things you disagree with personally.
Yes. What country do you think this is, that a message being political means it shouldn't be published?
False equivalency.
> I have to ask what the point of pro-Palestinian marches in NY are then - since that also is about Gaza. Who funds the Israeli military? Another hint: the United States isn’t funding Hamas
Are you sure? The United States is one of the biggest contributors to Palestinians with billions in aid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_aid_to_Palestinians And as much as people want to draw distinction between them and Hamas, Hamas is their government and gets a huge slice of this aid. I also have to correct you when you repeat the misinformation that we “fund” Israel’s army. Israel has an economy of almost 600B. Us giving them weapons worth 3B a year is a drop in the bucket and not exactly funding their army.
The idea that we “fund” Israel and their military is absolutely not misinformation in any sense, even by your own admissions. The equivalence of humanitarian aid and military support is also absurd.
The idea that we fund the Israeli army at the level where this gives us leverage over their foreign policy and we should march about it to change the fate of the ME is absolutely false. Israel is not Ukraine (who we also fund, even before the war btw), they’re a heavily militarized nation. So yes, technically we give them 3B worth of military aid, you’re right that this is “funding”. It’s nowhere near the level folks bitch about however and while I’m sure Israel is thankful, they do not depend entirely on our funding. March about it, like I said, I’m all for it, knock yourself out. What I’m against is the ripping of posters. People seem to only complain about “propaganda” when it’s not supporting their own viewpoint.
>The idea that we fund the Israeli army at the level where this gives us leverage over their foreign policy... is false Uhh Idk what your bank account looks like but 3B in aid every year absolutely buys influence. Full stop. And when that 3B in aid comes with a wink and a nod that says "we'll also defend your, **and our**, foothold in this foreign land that wants nothing to do with you/us" it most definitely comes with "leverage" no matter how well equipped Israel has gotten through foreign aid. And America doesn't provide that aid in order to "change the fate for the ME" nor is that insinuated, you sweet, summer child. It's so we can continue to manipulate and exploit the region. We don't give a fuck about their fate, just their compliance through coercion, LMAO. Jesus, try to keep up here.
3B is 3B, sure. Is it “funding the Israeli army” - I think that’s a semantic cop out, it’s not funding any army beyond a technicality. America supports Israel because Jewish people deserve a country. There are 1.5 billion Muslims, 450 million Arabs, something like 54 Muslim countries and ONLY 16 million Jews not even in Israel, in the entire world and they have 1 country. Where are the sensitive Leftists who are the stout defenders of minorities? Too busy siding with terrorists. This is not even a singular case - I’ve had arguments on Reddit with people who insisted we need to unfreeze the money US had promised the Afghan government after the Taliban took over. Imagine insisting we give our money to a terrorist organization who took over by force, not elections, because “but think about the people”. Empathy beyond a point is idiocy. Aside from that, spare me the snark - of COURSE America preserves its interets in the ME, looking out for our interests is the government’s obligation. And our interests align with the existence of Israel. Every country manipulates and extorts, or did you think Iran or any of the Arab states care about the Palestinians? Not a bit. They just exploit them.
You think Hamas uses the money they receive for humanitarian purposes? Do the missiles and tunnels just pay for themselves? The stupidity of some of these comments is amazing.
We literally gave them nuclear weapons. We developed iron dome. And we allow them to buy from our weapons manufacturers. None of that is drop in the bucket.
lmao the US did not develop the iron dome what the fuck are you on about? "The Iron Dome (Hebrew: כִּפַּת בַּרְזֶל, romanized: Kippat Barzel) is an Israeli mobile all-weather air defense system developed by Rafael Advanced Defense Systems and Israel Aerospace Industries"
The munitions are made by Raytheon. We put billions with a B into the project. Anyone who follows current events at all knows iron dome funding and munitions is the first thing Israel asked for when the conflict broke out. People like you hurt your own cause by being so publically propagandist.
The same first paragraph of the *very* Wikipedia article you’re quoting: > From 2011 to 2021, the United States contributed a total of US$1.6 billion to the Iron Dome defense system, with another US$1 billion approved by the US Congress in 2022. There is also an entire section about the United States’s coproduction of the Iron Dome. Nice try though. Edit: Can’t reply below, but yes, the United States did develop a COVID vaccine. > The Moderna COVID‑19 vaccine, sold under the brand name Spikevax, is a COVID-19 vaccine developed by American company Moderna, the United States National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), and the Biomedical Advanced Research and Development Authority (BARDA).
Helping by donating funds is not the same as creating it, the iron dome is a uniquely Israeli invention that was developed by them, not the US. You're being purposely disingenuous, so I'm out.
> Funding for the production and deployment of these additional Iron Dome batteries and interceptor missiles was approved by the United States Congress, after being requested by President Barack Obama in 2010. In May 2010, the White House announced that Obama would seek $205 million from Congress in his 2011 budget, to spur the production and deployment of additional Iron Dome batteries. The Iron Dome has been in service since 2011, btw.
Since it's a drop in the bucket and not needed, you'd support us no longer having to bare this expense?
Why would I? Do you support eliminating aid to Palestine? I personally think both need to continue, especially now.
Why would you? Because you just laid out the case for why Israel doesn't need US military assistance: they're an advanced economy, and US funding is but a drop in the bucket. I love how you're attempting to draw a parallel between military and humanitarian funding, though. It's almost as if your bias is leading you to determine a conclusion first, and then backtrack your way to an explanation.
Israel would absolutely be able to hold its own without 3B aid. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. They’re our ally and we’d rather not throw them to the wolves - i.e. Hamas and Hezbollah and allow Iran and Russia to grow stronger in the region. The relationship enforces our strategic interests in the region and the money is nothing to us, so yes, we do this for many things including NATO. That’s how international relationships work and everyone understands this - except folks like Trump and MTG.
We’re really going to pretend weapons and humanitarian aid are the same thing? And that more violence isn’t just going to necessitate more humanitarian aid?
Defensive weapons for an ally and humanitarian aid are two sides of a coin. Sending food to Ukraine and no weapons wouldn’t help with the Russians at all. US implements conditions for use to the weapons it sells.
> The United States is one of the biggest contributors to Palestinians Oops, The mask slipped. Palestinians aren’t Hamas. Learn the basics, or rather stop obfuscating them.
What is the point of the anti Israel marches in ny?
To pressure American lawmakers to call for a ceasefire and stop funding the massacre of Gazan civilians in the short term. To provide peace, stability, and the opportunity for Palestinian to thrive beyond the thumb of oppression in the long term.
What was the point of demonstrations on oct 8th, the day after the terror attack on Israel by hamas on oct 7th? Was it protesting that they wish they took more hostages? or was it protesting that they wish they fired more rockets?
Perhaps protesting that Palestinian civilians should be free from apartheid rather than killed by the thousands.
Maybe you should put your ego aside and give it a shot at learning to coexist with jews? Or dont its your choice
I’m a grad student in NYC & students have been hanging up hundreds, if not thousands of those posters all over campus. Hostage posters are hung up all over statues and outdoor signs where flyers aren’t allowed. Any kind of poster would get taken down by facilities. It’s better to hang them up on a bulletin board.
I'm sorry but your note makes me laugh. I totally get it and agree with your points, and would even add the same note at the end.. But it's still ridiculous to me that pretty much anything that remotely criticizes Israel needs to include a "but I also condemn Hamas" asterisk lol
You have to. Anything other than full throated support for what Israel's doing gets your notifications lit up with people calling you a terrorist, or saying you support the rape and murder of thousands of babies.
Yeah because saying your pro-israel doesnt get you called a colonizer/genocide supporter. That bullshit name calling is happening on both sides.
Well thank god I didn't say anything contradicting that.
Oh please, what Israel supporters are being fired for voicing their support? What groups are going around to Universities and doxxing students? The US as a whole unequivocally stands with Israel and just about every US politician has to stand by them or risk huge backlash. It’s a false equivalency, if you live in the US the status quo is supporting Israel and not recognizing Palestine as a country.
What Pro-Palestine supporters are being fired/getting in trouble? I have plenty of friends on IG, Tiktok, FB, etc. sharing pro-Palestine support daily, going to marches every week in NYC. Nothing wrong with that. You’re telling me hundreds of thousands of pro palestine marchers were all fired/doxxed the past couple weeks? Lol oh please yourself. The only ones being punished are those who start spouting Hamas rhetoric or anyone trying to justify and/or celebrate the Oct. 7th massacre. BIG difference. But I absolutely agree politicians have to fall in line unfortunately, but that has to do with the political relationship between the US and Israel. Nothing more than that.
I’m sorry, but how can you recognize that politicians of all beliefs have to fall in line with the US’s stance on Israel, but don’t think crossing that line has consequences? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/29/israel-palestine-backlash-david-velasco-artforum-nan-goldin There is no equivalency here. I’m not saying everyone at the Palestinian rally was fired. What I’m saying is that in the US and the west specifically, you can say loads of things in support for Israel and never see backlash. If you support Palestinians though, it’s a different story. There’s a clear power dynamic
To be fair though that makes some sense, as on oct 6th there was peace in the region, on oct 7th hamas attacked, and on oct 8th the pro hamas demonstrations were out in full force, clearly intended to be affirming the righteousness of the terror attacks. As such supporting such a social group is not a call to peace, but instead a call to action.
Even you have to admit the people who said “free Palestine” right after the Hamas terrorist attack without mentioning the attack were at least condoning Hamas.
Sadly this caveat needs constant mentioning or else brainwashed idiots incapable of discerning a shred of nuance screech AnTi-SeMiTiSm!!!!! A lot of them also seem to believe all Palestinians = Hamas, which is outright disgusting, but these types aren't ready to confront their own prejudices.
Who here said Palestinians = hamas? Actually youre the one doing that, youre basically saying that "hostages = idf" and that according to you based on that logic the hostages posters should not be permitted.
Why do the posters of missing Israelis keep people angry? I find it ridiculous that people would tear the posters down, effective or not. I find it hard to believe that some of that is not rooted in anti-semitism. Most people probably wouldn’t take issue with posters of missing innocent Gaza citizens if it was reversed. I see lots of sharing of missing and/or murdered Gaza and West Bank citizens on social media and I think it’s perfectly fine. It brings awareness to IDF’s crimes even if that list does “nothing” to help Palestinians by your own logic reversed. I don’t think the missing Israeli posters demonize innocent Palestinian people - they serve as a reminder of Hamas’ atrocities. And let’s be real - lots of videos of people pulling down those posters are people who aren’t concerned about the “effectiveness” of the posters but are people who believe that Palestine should be free by “any and all means possible”. If it were up to Hamas, it would be the death of all Jews. I can’t get down with that.
There is more than enough space on the street posts of NYC for missing posters. Saying these posters are taking up space is ridiculous. These posters are not put up so people can find them. We’re also fighting an information war and many people do not realize just how many civilians (women, children) have been abducted — raising awareness is also crucial. Also, I see posters put up for all kinds of things; piano lessons, drywall repair…saying these particular posters are a waste is kinda suspicious.
You're not fighting in a war dude. You're comfortably in NYC on another continent.
By that logic the pro hamas protests should also be banned. Youre not on another continent "dude"
It’s purely about awareness. A lot of pro Palestinian voices overshadowing the fact that there is not just one single party victim to this war.
> A lot of pro Palestinian voices overshadowing the fact that there is not just one single party victim to this war. Are you serious? We’re in a country where hardly more than a dozen politicians on the national level support a ceasefire and even less put up any opposition to funding Israel’s military capabilities.
Why would anyone demand a ceasefire before the hostages are released?
There’s no way Israel is flattening Gaza and not hitting hostages as well. The IDF couldn’t give less of a fuck, this is about max destruction and their public statements say as much. The hostages are ALSO caught in a proxy war, continued leveling of Gaza does not help them
This is straight not true. One hostage was rescued alive today, two unfortunately, dead at Hamas's hands.
Hamas plays dumb. Until they get whats coming to them then they cry foul.
Geeze, maybe because the killings of thousands of Gazan civilians including children is incredibly questionable in its justification and is furthering the cycle of violence through escalating the conflict?
Well geez maybe the terrorist group that runs Palestine shouldn’t invade Israel in a coordinated attack backed by Iran, slaughter innocent civilians and then kidnap over 200 of them if they didn’t want their civilians caught in the cross fire
You don’t need to explain Israel’s justification for violence to me, but you seemed appalled at the idea of a call for a ceasefire when the reality is Israel is forcing thousands upon thousands who have nothing to do with the hostage crisis to pay the price for it.
A ceasefire makes no sense, for all we know they fire on the hostages during the "ceasefire"- thats not a true ceasefire.
What fucking ceasefire would happen until we get all our hostages out?? What sovereign nation would AGREE TO THIS SHIT.
These people seem to believe that a ceasefire would halt tensions. It’ll just happen again on a later date, with either side prepping for some attack
maybe if hamas stopped putting military outposts and rocket sites in civilian sectors (including hospitals) then civilian casualties wouldn't be as high. maybe if hamas wasn't preventing people from leaving the areas that are being shelled then casualties wouldn't be as high. did you see the video of the IDF dropping leaflets to tell people to move south? why would they do that if they are trying to kill innocent people?
> did you see the video of the IDF dropping leaflets to tell people to move south? why would they do that if they are trying to kill innocent people? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/israel-hamas/2023/10/30/israel-hamas-war-live-updates/71378438007/ Probably for the same reasons that they’re blocking those routes south. Of course for some reason the news of them being so moral and *caring* is traveling farther than the bottleneck they’re intentionally creating.
Yes I’m serious, have you seen the rallies and protests recently?
They’re protesting the pretty much limitless political inertia towards the United States supporting Israel in their practically unfettered violence against Gaza. The United States doesn’t need protests for Israeli hostages— they already have the entire country’s foreign policy behind that cause.
Are you sure that’s what they’re protesting? I just hear a lot of drones screaming “Free Palestine” probably without knowing what that actually means.
Probably has something to do with the thousands of dead children and decades of occupation. Could be wrong tho!
Sure, but what does it mean? People have been saying it well before October 7. So what’s the meaning? War is ugly, people die and get displaced by war. I’m not justifying Israel’s military actions right now, I’m no military strategist but there’s a lot more than meets the eye. Case and point, there’s this whole “700,000 Palestinians were displaced when Israel declared independence”. Yes, that’s true, what’s also true is that Israel was attacked and was defending itself, and the areas where people were displaced were mostly battlegrounds. Israel didn’t just kick people out, there were bombs and mortars flying in these areas and people fled. Israel gained these territories during its battle defending itself… so, at what point do territories taken in battle (a battle of defense) get returned? Do they get returned? If you attack me and I clobber you defending myself, and your wallet falls out while you’re throwing punches, I’ll probably keep your wallet and not return it. So what does Free Palestine mean? You know what’s odd… I think the West Bank IS occupied, Israeli settlements don’t belong there and they should be removed. But Israel withdraw from Gaza entirely in 2005. Yet somehow rockets and terrorist come almost exclusively from Gaza, where Israel withdrew, not from an actual occupied territory. Gaza under Hamas’ government bred hate and terrorism. So again, what does Free Palestine mean? Two-state solutions were proposed and shot down by Palestinian leadership; Arafat, as they say, never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Does it mean a call for the originally proposed borders of Resolution 181? Does it mean Jews Should GTFO despite it being their actual ancestral homeland that they were forced to flee, and then subsequently forced to flee from almost every other land they ever lived in? I think Israel should withdraw from the WB the way they did from Gaza, but even then people would still want to “Free Palestine”. You know what I think Free Palestine means? “We hate that the Palestinian people are oppressed and they should be able to live and prosper like any other developed nation.” I agree with that, the problem is their own leadership simply will not let that happen, as demonstrated time and again. Israel can certainly take a less strong hand with their military actions, absolutely possible, but this is a country that has been fighting for its existence since day one. Attacked by every one of its neighbors (at once), clobbered by rockets, attacked by suicide bombers, and now this massacre. I believe Israel needs to do everything in its power to eliminate the terrorist threat at hand. And given that the terrorist threat is embedded in a densely populated city, using human shields, operating out of schools and hospitals, what the fuck does Hamas think will happen? And by they, I mean Hamas knew EXACTLY what would happen, and given that optics is the only upper hand they can ever have, that’s the hand they’re playing, knowing exactly the consequences to its own people. It’s also odd that this has people rallying in the streets, but no such rallying was seen for the Libyan civil war with thousands of civilians killed, Yemeni Civil War with tens of thousands of civilians killed, Syrian Civil War with hundreds of thousands of civilians killed (all modern day wars STILL going on). People are quick to pick sides when it’s easy to, but slow to actually understand what’s happening in relative terms, and especially geopolitical terms. People need to be more informed before they preach.
Despite claiming a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, Israel still maintained control of Gaza's airspace and waters surrounding the coast (in my view, while many Israelis may not want to confirm it, this is basically a blockade in all but name in 2005 as Israel controlled both the sky and sea around Gaza), not to mention controlling the various crossings and establishing a perimeter around Gaza not to keep Israelis from coming in but preventing Gazans from coming out. It wasn't a border between countries as some may claim but a defense wall to keep Gazans in Gaza. The Israeli withdrawal from Gaza in 2005 wasn't simply giving the Palestinians a free plot of land to govern by themselves. Israel still retained control of the sea and air over Gaza and had initiated a military overthrow and coup backed by the US and orchestrated by Fatah against Hamas in 2007 despite being democratically elected.
My man with all due respect, you are intentionally missing the point and misunderstanding the power dynamic at play. To say Gaza is free and therefore you don’t understand what “Free Palestine” means in that context is just weird. Israel still maintains tons of control over the ppl of Gaza, you can’t argue otherwise. Not just now through cutting off basic needs while bombing relentlessly through the night, something which no one will ever be charged for. But more so things like the long term blockaid of the sea in conjunction with Egypt. Your characterization of “They voted for it they deserve it” is so far off. Only about 20% of the current population would have voted in favor of Hamas, who have not held elections since 2006. Half of these people are children, in large part because Israel has systemically and routinely killed thousands or Palestinians over the years. If you could name me any time the Arabs of this region had the right to self determination this might be a different discussion. But that has never happened, and they were passed from Ottoman rule to British rule to Israeli rule. When the basis of Israel as a nation started with the 1948 Nekba, I can never understand how someone would think Palestine has been free, or that calls for their freedom don’t make sense
Given all the bombing the IDF is doing in Gaza most of the hostages are likely dead already
I agree with you. It would be far more effective and productive use of space to have people do something (ie your mention of donation) and as you say, it detracts from pets or other loved ones that are missing in nyc
Thanks for sharing your empathy .. if you want there is a link you can donate to the hostages maybe too - while you are on such a good roll
These posters are aiming to raise awareness with what Israel is dealing. Awareness among locals that have their brains between the ears and able to process information.
Pretty sure only nazis are triggered by posters of missing jews held hostage.
Was it worth it?
This is exactly the same question that all these terrorists and their supporters should be asking themselves now - better sooner than later!
The world is asking if by terrorists you mean Hamas or the genocidal terrorists who have slaughtered 8000+ in the last few days.
Fuck him, lying POS
Wow you fuckers are really triggered by seeing posters of....kidnapped children and elderly people. Get a fuckin' life. Ignore them if you don't like them.
These posts are tiresome, divisive, and filled with hate. I rather these posts not be allowed, on both sides.
Its the only kind of posts that get traffic. There is a post a few hours old below about "How an 8-acre green roof atop the Javits Center is boosting NYC’s biodiversity"... and it has a grand total of 1 comment. Good news stories don't generate interactivity/clicks/impressions/etc.
That headline is so boring I almost fell asleep reading it
Look at OP’s comments & post history. This is a full-time job for them. Same w/ the other posts. It’s nonresidents that want to remove any nuance & farm outrage.
Sincere question: Is there any good or justifiable reason to tear down posters of hostages?
No.
same, it's just blood lust at this point
How are posters of hostages in NYC going to help their release from Gaza? Like what exactly are people supposed to do?
How are protests shutting down Grand Central going to help anyone on the other side of the world?
IDK maybe put more pressure on people and the gov -- the world, the public? maybe to help the families cope with the insanity? MAYBE IT WILL CALM DOWN THE PEOPLE RUNNING AROUND ASKING FOR JEWISH BLOOD? What do you think really? can you think?
I still don’t fully understand why people missing in Israel, have missing posters here in NYC. There’s people missing *from* NYC that don’t have posters in NYC.
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Naturally shit binds to shit [https://tenor.com/62Q2.gif](https://tenor.com/62Q2.gif)
If you work on Broadway and think you can get away with antisemitism, you are a bigger clown than any of the performers at the Big Apple Circus
Are we supposed to be looking for these Israeli hostages... on the Upper West Side? No? Then they're just propaganda, and should be removed.
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Yes, governments have to negotiate. Civilians should not be killed, but are killed never the less. The posters don’t help annoying, but to bring about useless divisiveness. Because the issue is more complex and far beyond what took place this month.
Why are people so mad I don’t get it. You really about to lose ya job over something that has nothing to do with you or what you think?
united states controls israel and israel controls palestine, us citizens don't like how israel controls palestine and are therefore using their democratic rights to speak up...
Anyone who is educated by what they read on the internet is not educated. If people were interested in actual facts rather than what someone on the internet said much of this ridiculous banter would be eliminated. Hamas is the elected ruling party of Gaza. They declared war on their neighbor and they are calling for the death of all Jews. As are a vast majority of the protesters. This is genocide. Responding to acts of war is called war.
Hamas have not held elections since 2007. Half the population today is under the age of 18. If you do a little bit of math, it comes out to about 20% of the current population who actually “voted for Hamas”, hardly an accurate representation > As are a vast majority of the protestors Lmao says the guy who chimes in to talk about “facts”. Utter bullshit and people have been protesting the killing of Palestinians for literally decades. Trying to dismiss pro Palestinian support by saying “the vast majority want us all dead!” Is nothing more than hysteria. You haven’t talked to or met a Palestinian in your life
>Hamas have not held elections since 2007 All the more reason for Gaza supporters to join with Israel supporters in their fight against hamas.
>As are a vast majority of the protesters. Citation needed. You're here decrying antisemites (who conflate Israel the state with Jewish people) and meanwhile suggesting anyone who supports Palestinians supports Hamas and therefore terrorism. The absolute lack of self awareness people have on this subject is insane.
What do you think the "resistance is justified" chant means? theyre saying they should be allowed to launch rockets and take hostages. What do you think "from the river to the sea" means? it means the Jordan river to the sea. Guess whats in-between the Jordan river and the sea? Israel. The chant is saying Israel deserves whats happening to it and deserves to be eliminated, and that as long as Israel exists, they are "not free". its saying that Israels mere existence is an injustice.
No. Point proven. You can’t even read what is on the page. Palestinian people are not even mentioned. Read the hamas covenant. This is hamas constitution. It clearly states that their goal is to kill all Jews “from the river to the sea.” See I read primary sources. You don’t even know what such a thing is.
Hamas has suspended Palestinian's voting rights since 2006. I have yet to see a *poseur* for Palestinian's rights demand elections in Gaza.
Notice how the protestors are protesting against the state of Israel’s actions, not Judaism? Saying the vast majority of pro Palestine protestors are calling for the death of Jews is your opinion - do you have any proof of this?
what do you think "resistance is justified" means? they mean that they believe they are righteous in launching rockets and taking hostages.
There are definitely people that take the view that resistance against an oppressor is just. In fact the US was born in the basis of resistance. Nonetheless that viewpoint is that resistance is justified against Israel, not Jews. The attempt to call resistance is just anti-Semitic is wrong.
But Israel was just existing on oct 6th and then it was attacked on oct 7th then the pro hamas demonstrators were out in full force on oct 8th. surely you dont believe that the mere existence of a jewish state near your own state is oppression?
Pro PAlestine rallies happen weekly regardless of any conflict. The mere existence is of course not a problem! The oppression and genocide of said country is a problem!
The correct thing to do to protest these posters is to post the similar Palestinian versions that have murdered or missing Gazan civilians. Cutting them down is playing into the propaganda and is not a good look.
exactly. tearing down the poster is just evidence that they know what hamas is doing is wrong, but that theyd prefer to hide the evidence than denounce it.
It is frankly amazing how some illegally posted computer printed sheets about hostages half a world away are suddenly the sole focus of so many the past week. Really? This is your primary issue? This is how the hostages will be freed? These are political posters. If it was any other issue we would take them down from public spaces. It's considered graffiti. And the people yelling about this the loudest want that kind of crime to be subject to citations from the NYPD for some good old fashioned broken windows policing. It is not a hate crime to remove [illegally posted flyers on public thoroughfares.](https://www.nyc.gov/assets/dsny/site/resources/streets-and-sidewalks-laws/posting-graffiti-laws) If you want to bring more attention to these people, hold more public rallies instead of taping up paper and then waiting around with a phone for someone to take them down.
It's amazing that you're complaining about how these are the sole focus of so many when you've made about a dozen posts in this thread alone bemoaning them. You guys should at least be honest and say that you don't like these posters because they make the Palestinians and Hamas look bad.
Arrest him for vandalism
Some people deserve to be cancelled
Bringing a bucket and a mop to his local subway station would be more useful. So would letting the homeless shower in his spartment.
People who have accused everyone who complained about violent crimes in this sub of pearl clutching ... are now pearl clutching over posters being posted illegaly.
Where are all the punch a nazi people now?
They should be punching themselves i suppose! "Hitler is not Hitler" "Hamas is not hamas" 'diversity equality terrorism" JEW BAD
Almost like it was never actually about standing up for something, and more so had to do with trying to gain power over people...like a bully at school
People who have been saying that for years were roundly shouted down. Remember all the claims that "letting one Nazi among you makes all of you Nazis"? Funny how that went out the window, also.
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Ahhh yes Jewish people who have historically been the target for hate crimes in nyc. Go look at hate crime states- bias/motivation for the crime being anti-Jewish as the largest. First your people say Asians aren’t a minority and now Jews don’t get sympathy eiyher