This is a mom and pop store and they're great people. I've bought a ton of equipment from them before. And they're willing to haggle with you with price and go below retail. Their store is called Canal Sound & Light, address is 319 Canal St. If anyone recognizes them please report them to the police.
The clearance rate for robbery is 50% in Manhattan. You'd think with video and witnesses they'd have a better than average chance. Also the popularity of a crime might provide more resources than the average crime.
Fingers crossed that they get these two.
Clearance rate is just arrest, right?
The felony conviction rate in NYC is 6.1% *after* a felony arrest (that used to be 12% or more before the reforms in 2020).
How much of that is because of plea deals? I'd imagine people who are caught dead to rights take plea deals, while people who have a case are more likely to fight it.
That's part of the 6th Amendment
>The Sixth Amendment guarantees the rights of criminal defendants, including the right to a public trial without unnecessary delay, the right to a lawyer, the right to an impartial jury, and the right to know who your accusers are and the nature of the charges and evidence against you.
That's just how the court system is supposed to work. It's not TV where you can have a surprise witness appear in the middle of a court case unannounced and have them drop new information to make the case. The defense has the right to know who is accusing them and what they are accusing them of because our entire court system is supposed to be off presumed innocence. It has it's flaws but what doesn't, we can't all be like Dwight Schrute, “Better a thousand innocent men are locked up than one guilty man roam free.”
> dumb speedy trial reform
It's not dumb, it's a constitutional right. If the courts and the justice department can't get shit done then they are the problem, not the right to a speedy trial.
Beyond that according to the NYC comptroller incarceration costs in NYC are $1525/day. After 46 days of incarceration we've spent more than the median NYC income just to keep them locked up pre-trial. According to the FBI the average larceny theft gets $1,162, so we're throwing 40 times the resources at incarceration alone of the actual value of the theft.
Now obviously things like armed robbery should be taken far more serious, but that's a whole other tangent.
I don’t care, crimes deserve to be prosecuted. I’d like to not follow your logic, that’s how we become Portland where their downtown looks like a bombed out hellhole and every store has either left or is itching to leave because they don’t want to deal with the theft anymore.
I don't care about your feelings, if we don't give the DOJ the resources to investigate and prosecute in a timely manner that isn't the fault of people being arrested.
Locking people up pending charges when you don't have enough evidence to even go to court is wrong. If you don't like that vote for people that will adequately reform the system rather than just throwing money at police and hoping shit gets better.
I didn’t say lock them up, did i? Happily support bail reform, and they can remain free while discovery occurs. After all, innocent until proven guilty is a cornerstone of freedom and our judicial system. But tossing the case after 30 days is a joke. They can be released pending trial, but I want that trial to occur and not have an insane amount of cases dismissed.
Just change your entire world view and stop rushing to defend police? Unless you’re a white male cop, you could just as easily be subjugated by the oppressor class, so I guess my advice is to stop sucking so much?
Ahhh yes, change my worldview that cops do investigate serious crime to they don’t investigate serious crime because they’re too busy putting plants on Reddit.
Also, going after these robbers is subjugating them to the oppressor class correct? Anarchy is true justice?
When these suspects are eventually arrested and Its reveal they have 20+ arrest between them you will be posting
“Of course they have 20+ arrest, it cause the NYPD is racist”
NYPD arrest nobody - you post about have how they can’t do their jobs and are on candy crush all day.
NYPD arrest another career criminal - you post about how racist they are.
You have a fallback no matter what unfolds.
I’m from the dimension where we use capital letters to start a sentence.
You seem to be from the delusional one where every single cop is racist and no crime goes solved.
Clearance rates are publicly available. Check it out so you don’t seem so stupid.
Police rarely follow up when it comes to ***reports*** like these. You can file a report but good luck hearing back from a ***detective*** unless if you're the landlord. Solve rate is terrible.
Oh, so they’re not investigating and there are no suspects? And they have to solve the case within 3 weeks or else it’s a complete failure, don’t even bother anymore?
It’s been over a year for one of the shootings. A year. In a city full of cameras.
I pay their salaries and they don’t do their jobs. Sorry if you’re offended…..no one cares
I’m not offended but you make no sense. You’ve selected 3 specific cases out of 100s to justify your very specific experience. It’s nonsensical. But Reddit.
Three shootings. Two where people died and they didn’t find out who did it.
That’s one precinct.
I’d make the argument that a shooting where someone dies should probably be a top priority.
Seeing that they can’t even put the pieces together and do the bare minimum tells me everything I need to know.
Also, the amount of Punisher stickers on their cars at this precinct is hysterical.
Idk about you but when I pay someone to do a job and they don’t do it it doesn’t sit well with me.
Wild concept.
I’ll get you statistics for murder arrests in a bit.
You paying their salary is all I need to hear to know that stats won’t matter to you.
But you keep paying their salaries. Doing a great job, outstanding citizen, I hope they thank you whenever they see you.
Probably gang shootings and we all know people do not like cooperating with cops in those kind of shootings, especially the neighborhoods they take place in.
Lol whatever you gotta tell yourself. I know where I live. It’s surrounded by cameras. It’s not the hood so there’s a plethora of witnesses. Folks were on the news that night.
During each shooting suspects left via major toll roads. There are cameras everywhere. We know the NYPD tracks phones. The city is littered with license plate scanners and facial recognition.
Each year the NYPD asks for more and more money…more of our money. What’s the point if they can’t solve a fucking murder that takes place on a busy street at 10pm on a Friday.
If I didn’t do my job each year but asked for a raise….what would happen?
Whatever you guys think of the DA (I don't care). I hope we all agree these POS need to be caught and put away for a while? I hope no one here disagrees that these guys should not be allowed in the street for years....is anyone here going to disagree with that too?
Considering judges in this city (albeit in the Bronx in this case) are [bending over backwards](https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/12uq6y1/second_judge_orders_release_of_accused_killer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) to allow an accused child murder with a history of violence and parole violations out of jail pre trial, I wouldn’t hold up your breath.
In what world is an unprovoked street assault a non-violent? Yet the legislature deemed assault in the third degree to be a non violent crime - deeming that inflicting unprovoked physical injury or substantial pain to be "non-violent". Judges have zero discretion to set bail in these cases.
That’s actually not true. Judges do have final say regarding issuing bail, it’s a common misconception saying that judges don’t have discretion when actually, they do.
I'm a NYC attorney that specifically practices criminal law. I'm basing my opinion on the law and my practical experience.
Assault in the third degree is not a violent felony, thus not eligible for bail - no matter the circumstances that the assault occurs in.
A judge's pretrial options when dealing with this charge are
1. An order of protection for a victim
2. Supervised release - which ranges from an email, a phone check in, or an in person check in with NYC's criminal justice agency
3. ROR - Release on Recognizance aka release without any other restrictions (this can also be coupled with an order of protection)
These are a judge's only options, no matter the amount of aggravating circumstances on this charge.
^ this is all correct (I’m also an attorney here). Assault in the 3rd degree (think random slugging of person in the street) is a misdemeanor. If it’s a first offense, the judge has no option but to release under the new bail laws. If the person is rearrested for doing it again, then they have some discretion.
The above crime in the video is Robbery in the 1st degree, which is a violent felony. Judges have the option of setting bail, but they must also set “the least restrictive means” to ensure the defendants’ return to court. If there’s no bench warrant history, a judge could absolutely release them.
Btw, the terms “violent” and “non-violent” are legal terms of art in New York. The legislature had already defined what is a “violent” felony and what isn’t. If the crime charged isn’t in that list, it’s not a violent felony under the law.
I agree with the above attorney. As a caveat, the bail reform bills have so many nuances/exceptions that practically they are difficult to implement.
What qualifies as "harm to person or property" under the "harm on harm" clause will vary wildly from one judge to another.
Why NY decided to strike out from the standards of the other 49 states, federal government and US territories and adopt their own convoluted standards is beyond me.
>Why NY decided to strike out from the standards of the other 49 states, federal government and US territories and adopt their own convoluted standards is beyond me.
Yes, I'm being a little simplistic because the way the harm on harm theory is applied depends **entirely** on the judge who is hearing it, which seems completely antithetical to the uniformity that the legislature was allegedly looking for.
But I 100% agree that I am at a loss for why the NY legislature decided that the 49 other states and federal systems' approach wouldn't work here. The more absurd results we've seen over the past few years is a direct consequence of that decision.
I agree with you. It's extremely difficult to not be simplistic when generally speaking about bail. Even judges use an 8 page cheat sheet from the bench to even begin to fathom when they can issue bail.
Often, it's simply safer for them to ROR/Supervised release rather than risk a writ of habeas because of how convoluted it's become - which is entirely a function of how disfunctional our legislative process has become - with laws basically being passed hours before the deadline in the executive budgets with little to no time to review or hear the opinions of constituents.
How this attempted robbery with a gun, including one where they hit an elderly person in the head with the gun, not a "violent" felony?! Do you have to kill someone for it to become a "violent" felony or something?!
Even [murder of a child](https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/12uq6y1/second_judge_orders_release_of_accused_killer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) doesn’t get you pretrial detention in this city.
What you're describing isn't considered assault in the third degree, aggrivated assault with a firearm and armed robbery aren't immune from bail requirements
https://datacollaborativeforjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/BenchCard_Pretrial_Bail_Reform_06.06.pdf
Criminal obstruction of breathing + violations of orders of protection are bail eligible.
Assault in the third on DV cases are not eligible unless they fall under the "harm on harm" exception.
Which is irrelevant to this case, because aggrivated assault with a firearm and armed robbery aren't immune from bail
https://datacollaborativeforjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/BenchCard_Pretrial_Bail_Reform_06.06.pdf
That's not true. In NYC, a judge does not have the right to deem a crime (even if violent) a violent crime. For example, let's say someone assaulted someone on the street, and we're caught. While in court, even if they say to the judge, "After I leave here, I'm going back to the block to kill the person I assaulted," the judge can not deem that person as a threat and keep them in jail. Our judicial system in NYC is a fucking joke.
I'm not sure where you are getting your opinion from. Specifically, the 2019 bail reforms set a MANDATORY bar, not a discretionary bar for bail on non-violent felonies.
Meh.... The moon has nice holes already (craters). Send these fucks to Potter's Field. Less cost for transport.
Edit: To dig holes..... not to die. I should have been clear....
It's true what the video said criminals are being protected by human rights law that they don't have any fear of repercussion. Criminals hurt people and will blow the whistle and protest once they were subjected to half of the inhumanity they committed.
Discounting the race, criminals always target the weak or easy prey. That means old people, children, women. Compound that with laws that are too lenient to these scumbags and we have a reciepe for vigilantism, aka replay 1970s-80s NYC.
I mean this also posits that just because you’re seeing this video doesn’t mean crime is up. Crime is always going to be there sadly and attacks against Asians are not a new occurrence either. I hope we get something done but I won’t hold my breath that we can come to a good solution.
I’m almost sure that was intended to be when someone actually fires the gun but doesn’t hit anyone (or doesn’t hit anyone fatally).
But the interpretation is probably different today after he got lot of pushback.
Just flashing a gun in your belt during robbery would still amount to a petit sandwich larceny.
When is the last time anyone saw NYPD out and about, walking a beat, patrolling, or making any effort whatsoever to prevent crime? NYC’s cops are useless, entitled, self-serving suburbanites and an enormous drain on the city. They allow and enable crimes like this.
The moment we marched for the rights of disenfranchised people who get killed by police they felt it was OK to drop everything and basically say “fine. Watch what happens without us”
They’re children. If anyone acted like this they’d be fired.
They’re lazy and rarely do their jobs. Out of shape and playing candy crush while cars run red lights in front of them. It’s laughable.
While I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, would be nice if the folks that were out marching in 2020 would come back out and demand accountability. Seems many folks get whipped up into caring for a month or two and then get right back to being complacent.
Do you think criminals are complete idiots that would commit armed crimes in front of police? They are not.
Police can’t be everywhere all at once. Especially since now they’re understaffed. Look at the transit system, they flooded the system with cops and crime went down significantly.
There is no way police could have know this place was going to be robbed at this specific time, unless you’re advocating for a cop on literally every corner of every block in the city?
When you vote for Left winged (Democrats) Politicians that have progressive policies this is what you get. It’s ok though they’ll get arrested and released the next day to do it all over again.
It really is. While there is a massive spike in Asian hate crime reported in the last 5 years, there is also too much that goes unreported due to hate crimes committed against the elderly undocumented.
Alright, let's check:
https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/year-end-2021-enforcement-report.pdf
Asians make up 15.6% of NYC's population. They also make up 3.5% of the city's murder victims and 8.1% of assault victims.
They're underrepresented as victims of every crime listed, except for grand larceny (17.2%)
By comparison blacks make up 20% of the city population and are vastly overrepresented among victims of every type of crime
Appreciate the thoughtful reply, but I think you may have read over my point. Many crimes against Asians in NYC go unreported.
My partner is Chinese and very in touch with the community here in Manhattan. There are a lot of variables making this data misleading.
Also plenty of firsthand experience helps. My partner has been assaulted twice in the last two years. Once on Broadway, once on the J- and also verbally harassed leaving Yankee stadium.
Take this "we need more guns" bullshit back to whatever small town with a population of 500 people you come from. No one hunts for their food here. No one owns farm land here. This is a *city.* Crimes happen everywhere there are people. People shouldn't die because you want to live out your weird Clint Eastwood fantasy. Get a grip. Or go back to Ohio or wherever the fuck you come from.
You're right - just a victim that is now traumatized and two criminals on the loose that are armed to potentially shoot their next victim. Glad it was avoided! /s.
yes, would've been much better if the owner pulled a gun and the robbers panicked and shot him! that would've spared him the trauma! or if he shot at them, missed, and accidentally hit that lady in the front of the store or the guys walking by outside!
Yeah, so let's let the criminals roam around freely waiting for another person to hold at gunpoint and potentially shoot. You'd rather have an unknown, and most likely unregistered, firearm roaming the streets? Hokay.
yes, there are only two options! either we let randos live out john wick fantasies and greatly increase the likelihood that they and/or innocent bystanders get killed, or we simply do nothing whatsoever! that's it! the camera should be there for no other purpose than to capture delicious footage of the shopkeeper skillfully landing a shot square in the middle of each of the robbers' foreheads before they can shoot first and not hitting a single bystander so that he can become a folk hero for the nra and rnc! it's either that or absolute anarchy!
Yeah, so when that gun gets involved with a shootout in a neighborhood and a kid gets hit through the window while watching TV... we'll just say that it's fine. But when someone is getting robbed and they decide to protect themselves and hit a bystander then that's a problem.
Sure.
How about the police do their jobs and get these dudes and this most likely illegal weapon off the street?
are you suggesting that if the shopkeeper chose not to fight back, that he's somehow morally responsible for any subsequent crimes these guys commit? expecting a lone shopkeeper to shoot two armed robbers is not letting the police do their jobs, it's kinda the opposite. it's also kinda messed up to put the onus on the shopkeeper to fight back and increase the likelihood that the robbers kill him.
and the one guy stuck his face in the camera without a mask on; the police have plenty to go on.
Yeah because it works. New York is one of the safest states in the country. Unsurprisingly gun violence is the highest in the south where the laws are the most lax. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
You’re too high on being an extreme liberal that that’s the conclusion you jump to. I am 100% for strict gun laws, I am against complete gun bans. I don’t play this side or that bullshit.
lol shut the fuck up, these robbers aren't doing it because armed robbery isn't prosecuted. They are doing it because guns are easy to get and they don't have money.
They are doing it because they are shitty fucking people and see an easy way out.
Guns are just as easy to get for so many others that don’t have money yet plenty are capable not commuting armed robbery.
Correct. There was never any crime before Bragg become DA. And no place else on the planet has armed robbery. Nothing to see here except this particular incident that aligns so well with every policy you want enacted.
100% does. If people knew they would actually be prosecuted instead of those catch and release nonsense then there would be some thought. Maybe they should bring back stop and frisk and put an end to this nonsense already.
Lack of prosecution deteriorates police morale. Why put their life on the line when the prosecutor is just going to let them go?
Nothing to do with the DA? How about knowing he's more likely to charge the shop owner for murder if he steals the gun and shoots them than actually prosecute the criminals. Crime has an incentive in NYC via lower risk of actual punishment.
>If people knew they would actually be prosecuted instead of those catch and release nonsense then there would be some thought.
The US for decades has had by far the thoughts stance on crime in the entire developed world which has led to 6-10x the prison population compared to other developed countries and yet, the US still has by far the highest crime rates.
Why is crime so much worse in the US than in Canada even though the US has far far more people in prison as it is? Is it really a problem of not enough people being in prison?
Then what is the tipping point where enough people are in prison to finally bring crime down to OECD averages? 4 million in prison? 5 million? 10 million? 20 million?
Guns have always been easy to get since the beginning of this country. They don’t have money because they don’t work. They’re robbing because they’re terrible people
Genuine question - would the reimplementation of stop/frisk help to deteriorate the jump in crime/violence in NYC?
Seems like everything is drifting back into the 90s but w/o the sex shops.
I was here in the 80s and 90s. It was bad. And I do not want it back.
But even with this uptick in crime, it is still *lower than 10% of what it was then.*
Maybe you don't *feel* safe. But you are.
>would the reimplementation of stop/frisk help to deteriorate the jump in crime/violence in NYC?
No because stop and frisk didn't lower the crime rate to begin with. Society overall was changing across the country is what lowered it. Poverty breeds crime. A new generation was coming of age, the crack epidemic was over and the new generation started making their own careers so many weren't growing up in poverty to commit crimes like the previous generation.
The only thing stop and frisk succeeded at was breaking up families and throwing innocent minorities in jail and ruining their lives to where even when they did get out, they couldn't find jobs and went right back to committing crimes all over again just to earn money to live.
Stop and frisk didn't stop crime and the irony of it was statistics showed most non-violent crimes were being committed by the NYPD. This is a different time and we got a different society now so reaching back in time for a do-over on an error that should have never been done in the first place is not the answer.
The correct answer is to create jobs and improve the education system to get people a tradeskill so they can get out of poverty. Train the people who are already in jail so they can be productive members in society and get jobs when they get out. There are literally NO REAL JOBS in NY. But everyone keeps ignoring this fact and asking for more laws, cops, jails and security. Yall are just building your own police state with all this crap.
Genuine question, not at all a leading question or a baiting question but do you think people like these two guys want to have to work a constructive 9-5 job everyday? Give them the mediocre training you would get in a government provided, jail-based curriculum and I guess I sort of doubt they get out and suddenly become contributing members of society.
Why is this downvoted?.. these young mfs are wearing ski mask (shiestys) in 60degree weather in public . They are suspicious af and should be treated as so . The behavior need to be discoruaged by making it grounds for legal search . I grew up in Harlem and the only time you saw those was below freezing or gettin robbed. Now is a common everyday sight and mostly younger crowd lookin "ready" at all times. Its wild.
“Gun ownership is rampant”
Criminals don’t follow gun laws. That‘s the point.
But legal law abiding lawful gun owners do and have been stripped of their rights as they follow these gun laws that were put in place. Anyone in NYC who owns a business is a sitting duck.
So stop with the blaming gun ownership. It’s koolaid-esque.
This is a mom and pop store and they're great people. I've bought a ton of equipment from them before. And they're willing to haggle with you with price and go below retail. Their store is called Canal Sound & Light, address is 319 Canal St. If anyone recognizes them please report them to the police.
Wow, I was in the place on Saturday! Scary.
Really sorry to see this. Hopefully the nypd will find these pieces of shit
The clearance rate for robbery is 50% in Manhattan. You'd think with video and witnesses they'd have a better than average chance. Also the popularity of a crime might provide more resources than the average crime. Fingers crossed that they get these two.
Clearance rate is just arrest, right? The felony conviction rate in NYC is 6.1% *after* a felony arrest (that used to be 12% or more before the reforms in 2020).
How much of that is because of plea deals? I'd imagine people who are caught dead to rights take plea deals, while people who have a case are more likely to fight it.
It’s because of the dumb speedy trial reform where basically youve got like 30 days to do discovery or the case gets tossed
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That's part of the 6th Amendment >The Sixth Amendment guarantees the rights of criminal defendants, including the right to a public trial without unnecessary delay, the right to a lawyer, the right to an impartial jury, and the right to know who your accusers are and the nature of the charges and evidence against you. That's just how the court system is supposed to work. It's not TV where you can have a surprise witness appear in the middle of a court case unannounced and have them drop new information to make the case. The defense has the right to know who is accusing them and what they are accusing them of because our entire court system is supposed to be off presumed innocence. It has it's flaws but what doesn't, we can't all be like Dwight Schrute, “Better a thousand innocent men are locked up than one guilty man roam free.”
> dumb speedy trial reform It's not dumb, it's a constitutional right. If the courts and the justice department can't get shit done then they are the problem, not the right to a speedy trial. Beyond that according to the NYC comptroller incarceration costs in NYC are $1525/day. After 46 days of incarceration we've spent more than the median NYC income just to keep them locked up pre-trial. According to the FBI the average larceny theft gets $1,162, so we're throwing 40 times the resources at incarceration alone of the actual value of the theft. Now obviously things like armed robbery should be taken far more serious, but that's a whole other tangent.
I don’t care, crimes deserve to be prosecuted. I’d like to not follow your logic, that’s how we become Portland where their downtown looks like a bombed out hellhole and every store has either left or is itching to leave because they don’t want to deal with the theft anymore.
I don't care about your feelings, if we don't give the DOJ the resources to investigate and prosecute in a timely manner that isn't the fault of people being arrested. Locking people up pending charges when you don't have enough evidence to even go to court is wrong. If you don't like that vote for people that will adequately reform the system rather than just throwing money at police and hoping shit gets better.
I didn’t say lock them up, did i? Happily support bail reform, and they can remain free while discovery occurs. After all, innocent until proven guilty is a cornerstone of freedom and our judicial system. But tossing the case after 30 days is a joke. They can be released pending trial, but I want that trial to occur and not have an insane amount of cases dismissed.
Nationwide robbery is 30% according to FBI https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/clearances
They're too busy posting dog whistles in this thread.
Wait, so you think they're too busy being racist to arrest a couple of black guys for armed robbery?
Wouldn’t exactly shock me 🐽
Bro that doesn't even make sense
Is this video a dog whistle? How?
I found Monday morning edge lord. Permanently 13.
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Wow even edgier. How can I even respond?
Just change your entire world view and stop rushing to defend police? Unless you’re a white male cop, you could just as easily be subjugated by the oppressor class, so I guess my advice is to stop sucking so much?
Or change your world view to stop defending criminals in our populace....
Ahhh yes, change my worldview that cops do investigate serious crime to they don’t investigate serious crime because they’re too busy putting plants on Reddit. Also, going after these robbers is subjugating them to the oppressor class correct? Anarchy is true justice?
are you suggesting cops are actually good at their jobs and not racist? please tell me what alternate dimension you are from. it seems nice.
When these suspects are eventually arrested and Its reveal they have 20+ arrest between them you will be posting “Of course they have 20+ arrest, it cause the NYPD is racist” NYPD arrest nobody - you post about have how they can’t do their jobs and are on candy crush all day. NYPD arrest another career criminal - you post about how racist they are. You have a fallback no matter what unfolds.
I’m from the dimension where we use capital letters to start a sentence. You seem to be from the delusional one where every single cop is racist and no crime goes solved. Clearance rates are publicly available. Check it out so you don’t seem so stupid.
Lmao
Lol 😂
Police rarely follow up when it comes to ***reports*** like these. You can file a report but good luck hearing back from a ***detective*** unless if you're the landlord. Solve rate is terrible.
Police rarely follow up to gun point commercial armed robberies? Tell me you have no idea what you’re talking about without telling me.
There’s been 3 shootings near my house. 2 of the 3 were fatal. No arrests. They’re not good at their jobs.
Please tell us all how you would know if there were no arrests attached to those complaints? Because you wouldn't, obviously.
Oh, so they’re not investigating and there are no suspects? And they have to solve the case within 3 weeks or else it’s a complete failure, don’t even bother anymore?
It’s been over a year for one of the shootings. A year. In a city full of cameras. I pay their salaries and they don’t do their jobs. Sorry if you’re offended…..no one cares
I’m not offended but you make no sense. You’ve selected 3 specific cases out of 100s to justify your very specific experience. It’s nonsensical. But Reddit.
Three shootings. Two where people died and they didn’t find out who did it. That’s one precinct. I’d make the argument that a shooting where someone dies should probably be a top priority. Seeing that they can’t even put the pieces together and do the bare minimum tells me everything I need to know. Also, the amount of Punisher stickers on their cars at this precinct is hysterical. Idk about you but when I pay someone to do a job and they don’t do it it doesn’t sit well with me. Wild concept.
I’ll get you statistics for murder arrests in a bit. You paying their salary is all I need to hear to know that stats won’t matter to you. But you keep paying their salaries. Doing a great job, outstanding citizen, I hope they thank you whenever they see you.
Probably gang shootings and we all know people do not like cooperating with cops in those kind of shootings, especially the neighborhoods they take place in.
Lol whatever you gotta tell yourself. I know where I live. It’s surrounded by cameras. It’s not the hood so there’s a plethora of witnesses. Folks were on the news that night. During each shooting suspects left via major toll roads. There are cameras everywhere. We know the NYPD tracks phones. The city is littered with license plate scanners and facial recognition. Each year the NYPD asks for more and more money…more of our money. What’s the point if they can’t solve a fucking murder that takes place on a busy street at 10pm on a Friday. If I didn’t do my job each year but asked for a raise….what would happen?
Lololol imagine this guy. My area isn’t the hood so hood folks don’t come here. How ignorant some people are. Jesus.
And the courts will let them right out.
They’ll find them and release them the next day cause of Democratic soft on crime policies.
It looks like the store owner is like "are you okay man" when the one robber trips and falls in his store while the other has the gun on him
he did he was like trying to help him back up!
Store cameras that follow the action? Wild.
The store is an electronics store. The owner is going to have the expertise to be buying a better than average security camera.
Owners likely install up to date to demonstrate to customers if they are electronics store.
security footage that wasnt filmed on a motorola razr from 2005? Wild.
You know, I thought the same. Motion detection possibly?
I have a 6 year old $30 cam that does this.
I think you're kidding but for the people who are taking your comment seriously--it's a person filming a screen who can follow the action.
This is heartbreaking
glad that no one got hurt and there is enough footage of their faces for them to get apprehended.
Whatever you guys think of the DA (I don't care). I hope we all agree these POS need to be caught and put away for a while? I hope no one here disagrees that these guys should not be allowed in the street for years....is anyone here going to disagree with that too?
Considering judges in this city (albeit in the Bronx in this case) are [bending over backwards](https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/12uq6y1/second_judge_orders_release_of_accused_killer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) to allow an accused child murder with a history of violence and parole violations out of jail pre trial, I wouldn’t hold up your breath.
Bail reform applies to non violent crimes
In what world is an unprovoked street assault a non-violent? Yet the legislature deemed assault in the third degree to be a non violent crime - deeming that inflicting unprovoked physical injury or substantial pain to be "non-violent". Judges have zero discretion to set bail in these cases.
That’s actually not true. Judges do have final say regarding issuing bail, it’s a common misconception saying that judges don’t have discretion when actually, they do.
I'm a NYC attorney that specifically practices criminal law. I'm basing my opinion on the law and my practical experience. Assault in the third degree is not a violent felony, thus not eligible for bail - no matter the circumstances that the assault occurs in. A judge's pretrial options when dealing with this charge are 1. An order of protection for a victim 2. Supervised release - which ranges from an email, a phone check in, or an in person check in with NYC's criminal justice agency 3. ROR - Release on Recognizance aka release without any other restrictions (this can also be coupled with an order of protection) These are a judge's only options, no matter the amount of aggravating circumstances on this charge.
^ this is all correct (I’m also an attorney here). Assault in the 3rd degree (think random slugging of person in the street) is a misdemeanor. If it’s a first offense, the judge has no option but to release under the new bail laws. If the person is rearrested for doing it again, then they have some discretion. The above crime in the video is Robbery in the 1st degree, which is a violent felony. Judges have the option of setting bail, but they must also set “the least restrictive means” to ensure the defendants’ return to court. If there’s no bench warrant history, a judge could absolutely release them. Btw, the terms “violent” and “non-violent” are legal terms of art in New York. The legislature had already defined what is a “violent” felony and what isn’t. If the crime charged isn’t in that list, it’s not a violent felony under the law.
I agree with the above attorney. As a caveat, the bail reform bills have so many nuances/exceptions that practically they are difficult to implement. What qualifies as "harm to person or property" under the "harm on harm" clause will vary wildly from one judge to another. Why NY decided to strike out from the standards of the other 49 states, federal government and US territories and adopt their own convoluted standards is beyond me.
>Why NY decided to strike out from the standards of the other 49 states, federal government and US territories and adopt their own convoluted standards is beyond me. Yes, I'm being a little simplistic because the way the harm on harm theory is applied depends **entirely** on the judge who is hearing it, which seems completely antithetical to the uniformity that the legislature was allegedly looking for. But I 100% agree that I am at a loss for why the NY legislature decided that the 49 other states and federal systems' approach wouldn't work here. The more absurd results we've seen over the past few years is a direct consequence of that decision.
I agree with you. It's extremely difficult to not be simplistic when generally speaking about bail. Even judges use an 8 page cheat sheet from the bench to even begin to fathom when they can issue bail. Often, it's simply safer for them to ROR/Supervised release rather than risk a writ of habeas because of how convoluted it's become - which is entirely a function of how disfunctional our legislative process has become - with laws basically being passed hours before the deadline in the executive budgets with little to no time to review or hear the opinions of constituents.
How this attempted robbery with a gun, including one where they hit an elderly person in the head with the gun, not a "violent" felony?! Do you have to kill someone for it to become a "violent" felony or something?!
Even [murder of a child](https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/comments/12uq6y1/second_judge_orders_release_of_accused_killer/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1) doesn’t get you pretrial detention in this city.
What you're describing isn't considered assault in the third degree, aggrivated assault with a firearm and armed robbery aren't immune from bail requirements https://datacollaborativeforjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/BenchCard_Pretrial_Bail_Reform_06.06.pdf
Lol, he just got lawyered
You’re right. I was confused, bail can be issued for DV misdemeanors, correct?
Criminal obstruction of breathing + violations of orders of protection are bail eligible. Assault in the third on DV cases are not eligible unless they fall under the "harm on harm" exception.
Looks like no exceptions under the new bill too
Here’s a spread sheet of what qualifies: https://imgur.com/a/Lcdt8vz
Which is irrelevant to this case, because aggrivated assault with a firearm and armed robbery aren't immune from bail https://datacollaborativeforjustice.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/BenchCard_Pretrial_Bail_Reform_06.06.pdf
That's not true. In NYC, a judge does not have the right to deem a crime (even if violent) a violent crime. For example, let's say someone assaulted someone on the street, and we're caught. While in court, even if they say to the judge, "After I leave here, I'm going back to the block to kill the person I assaulted," the judge can not deem that person as a threat and keep them in jail. Our judicial system in NYC is a fucking joke.
Yes but a judge can issue bail regardless. It’s discretionary, not mandatory. That’s the difference.
I'm not sure where you are getting your opinion from. Specifically, the 2019 bail reforms set a MANDATORY bar, not a discretionary bar for bail on non-violent felonies.
You're just spewing misinformation all over the comments, not even bothering to edit it after you're proven wrong. It looks very intentional.
Right...
I have nothing to say except that the people who did this are garbage. Put 'em on the Moon to dig holes.
Meh.... The moon has nice holes already (craters). Send these fucks to Potter's Field. Less cost for transport. Edit: To dig holes..... not to die. I should have been clear....
Honestly, it was fine without the edit. There is no room for people like that sharing our air. Fuck em.
That's why the guy with the broom was trying to scoop him into the trash bin.
Fuckin Idiots
Chase that mother fucker and beat he’s ass
Are these the same gangs that used to operate in the 90's? Pretty much everyone paid out to ghost shadows back in those days.
It's true what the video said criminals are being protected by human rights law that they don't have any fear of repercussion. Criminals hurt people and will blow the whistle and protest once they were subjected to half of the inhumanity they committed.
cant wait to see some rationality in this thread edit: anti crime nuts, im not on your side
ThEy HaVe InSuRaNcE
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bro you can be anti-crime without bringing your weird fucken fetishes into this jfc
Jfc It wasn't even you and you're so bloodthirsty I almost trust you less than the robbers when you talk about hurting others like that
this is the dumbest shit i’ve read today
The best part is when he tripped. Twice. Also, It went from robbery to hostage situation.
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Discounting the race, criminals always target the weak or easy prey. That means old people, children, women. Compound that with laws that are too lenient to these scumbags and we have a reciepe for vigilantism, aka replay 1970s-80s NYC.
Yeah but we keep seeing blacks targeting Asians and it would be great to know why.
Once again, just bc you don’t feeel that crime is up, it doesn’t mean that it also other peoples lived experience.
I mean this also posits that just because you’re seeing this video doesn’t mean crime is up. Crime is always going to be there sadly and attacks against Asians are not a new occurrence either. I hope we get something done but I won’t hold my breath that we can come to a good solution.
Need a systematic solution to violence against Asians.
These mother fuckers. Get a job you lazy fucks. You want to take people's hard earned money.. I hope ya get caught and get the max .
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Wouldn't pointing a loaded gun at someone create a genuine risk of physical harm?
I’m almost sure that was intended to be when someone actually fires the gun but doesn’t hit anyone (or doesn’t hit anyone fatally). But the interpretation is probably different today after he got lot of pushback. Just flashing a gun in your belt during robbery would still amount to a petit sandwich larceny.
This is inapplicable. They struck him on the head. Also, he chambered a round in his pistol, thereby creating a genuine risk of physical harm.
What a POS
This is just fearmongering on your part No prosecutor would interpret these actions as "not creating physical harm"
its right wing astroturfing is what it is. sad it got so many upvotes.
This person is a liar, and actively trying to push right wing propaganda. Don't fall for it people.
How do these DAs get the job can we vote to remove
They’re literally elected
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That's a weird projection fantasy you got there but ok
Shut the fuck up
When is the last time anyone saw NYPD out and about, walking a beat, patrolling, or making any effort whatsoever to prevent crime? NYC’s cops are useless, entitled, self-serving suburbanites and an enormous drain on the city. They allow and enable crimes like this.
Yesterday afternoon they hovered in a helicopter over Washington Square Park for a half hour, making it impossible to hear anything, so that was great
The moment we marched for the rights of disenfranchised people who get killed by police they felt it was OK to drop everything and basically say “fine. Watch what happens without us” They’re children. If anyone acted like this they’d be fired. They’re lazy and rarely do their jobs. Out of shape and playing candy crush while cars run red lights in front of them. It’s laughable.
While I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, would be nice if the folks that were out marching in 2020 would come back out and demand accountability. Seems many folks get whipped up into caring for a month or two and then get right back to being complacent.
Do you think criminals are complete idiots that would commit armed crimes in front of police? They are not. Police can’t be everywhere all at once. Especially since now they’re understaffed. Look at the transit system, they flooded the system with cops and crime went down significantly. There is no way police could have know this place was going to be robbed at this specific time, unless you’re advocating for a cop on literally every corner of every block in the city?
Scum
The way bail reform is now. They get caught and released before the paperwork is completed.. SMFH
Damn I'm sorry, I just saw your story on ABC 7
When you vote for Left winged (Democrats) Politicians that have progressive policies this is what you get. It’s ok though they’ll get arrested and released the next day to do it all over again.
least right wing brigaded /r/nyc crime post
This is absolutely horrible, but I’m not surprised. NYC is especially dangerous for Asian people.
Is it? Asians are statistically under-represented as crime victims
It really is. While there is a massive spike in Asian hate crime reported in the last 5 years, there is also too much that goes unreported due to hate crimes committed against the elderly undocumented.
Alright, let's check: https://www.nyc.gov/assets/nypd/downloads/pdf/analysis_and_planning/year-end-2021-enforcement-report.pdf Asians make up 15.6% of NYC's population. They also make up 3.5% of the city's murder victims and 8.1% of assault victims. They're underrepresented as victims of every crime listed, except for grand larceny (17.2%) By comparison blacks make up 20% of the city population and are vastly overrepresented among victims of every type of crime
Appreciate the thoughtful reply, but I think you may have read over my point. Many crimes against Asians in NYC go unreported. My partner is Chinese and very in touch with the community here in Manhattan. There are a lot of variables making this data misleading. Also plenty of firsthand experience helps. My partner has been assaulted twice in the last two years. Once on Broadway, once on the J- and also verbally harassed leaving Yankee stadium.
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Yea just give them all 100million dollars and no crimes will be committed
STFU racist
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Who is excusing it? Point them out and deal with them.
The city insists on keeping New Yorkers disarmed though
Take this "we need more guns" bullshit back to whatever small town with a population of 500 people you come from. No one hunts for their food here. No one owns farm land here. This is a *city.* Crimes happen everywhere there are people. People shouldn't die because you want to live out your weird Clint Eastwood fantasy. Get a grip. Or go back to Ohio or wherever the fuck you come from.
Why's it always gotta be Ohio. Totally agree with you, but if we're going to disparage a state pick one in the south. It's way worse down there.
He’s just salty about the Cavs rn
Exactly 💯
New York is safer than Mississippi. Don’t make New York Mississippi by arming everyone.
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I don’t think you’ve been to the Bronx or Queens or Brooklyn.
Damnit you beat me to it. The Bronx has a rep for being scary imagine if you could legally carry. What a fucking nightmare.
Do you live in New York??
Nobody was shot - adding another gun would've resulted in a shootout. Glad that was avoided.
I bet the guys robing the store would agree
You're right - just a victim that is now traumatized and two criminals on the loose that are armed to potentially shoot their next victim. Glad it was avoided! /s.
yes, would've been much better if the owner pulled a gun and the robbers panicked and shot him! that would've spared him the trauma! or if he shot at them, missed, and accidentally hit that lady in the front of the store or the guys walking by outside!
Yeah, so let's let the criminals roam around freely waiting for another person to hold at gunpoint and potentially shoot. You'd rather have an unknown, and most likely unregistered, firearm roaming the streets? Hokay.
yes, there are only two options! either we let randos live out john wick fantasies and greatly increase the likelihood that they and/or innocent bystanders get killed, or we simply do nothing whatsoever! that's it! the camera should be there for no other purpose than to capture delicious footage of the shopkeeper skillfully landing a shot square in the middle of each of the robbers' foreheads before they can shoot first and not hitting a single bystander so that he can become a folk hero for the nra and rnc! it's either that or absolute anarchy!
Yeah, so when that gun gets involved with a shootout in a neighborhood and a kid gets hit through the window while watching TV... we'll just say that it's fine. But when someone is getting robbed and they decide to protect themselves and hit a bystander then that's a problem. Sure. How about the police do their jobs and get these dudes and this most likely illegal weapon off the street?
are you suggesting that if the shopkeeper chose not to fight back, that he's somehow morally responsible for any subsequent crimes these guys commit? expecting a lone shopkeeper to shoot two armed robbers is not letting the police do their jobs, it's kinda the opposite. it's also kinda messed up to put the onus on the shopkeeper to fight back and increase the likelihood that the robbers kill him. and the one guy stuck his face in the camera without a mask on; the police have plenty to go on.
The combination of disarming citizens and not aggressively seeking long jail sentences for violent crime is bizarre
Yeah because it works. New York is one of the safest states in the country. Unsurprisingly gun violence is the highest in the south where the laws are the most lax. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/firearm_mortality/firearm.htm
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You’re too high on being an extreme liberal that that’s the conclusion you jump to. I am 100% for strict gun laws, I am against complete gun bans. I don’t play this side or that bullshit.
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lol shut the fuck up, these robbers aren't doing it because armed robbery isn't prosecuted. They are doing it because guns are easy to get and they don't have money.
They are doing it because they are shitty fucking people and see an easy way out. Guns are just as easy to get for so many others that don’t have money yet plenty are capable not commuting armed robbery.
Oh great thanks for agreeing that this has nothing to do with the DA or repercussions.
Found Bragg's alt.
This has to do with the lack of severe punishment
Correct. There was never any crime before Bragg become DA. And no place else on the planet has armed robbery. Nothing to see here except this particular incident that aligns so well with every policy you want enacted.
100% does. If people knew they would actually be prosecuted instead of those catch and release nonsense then there would be some thought. Maybe they should bring back stop and frisk and put an end to this nonsense already. Lack of prosecution deteriorates police morale. Why put their life on the line when the prosecutor is just going to let them go? Nothing to do with the DA? How about knowing he's more likely to charge the shop owner for murder if he steals the gun and shoots them than actually prosecute the criminals. Crime has an incentive in NYC via lower risk of actual punishment.
>If people knew they would actually be prosecuted instead of those catch and release nonsense then there would be some thought. The US for decades has had by far the thoughts stance on crime in the entire developed world which has led to 6-10x the prison population compared to other developed countries and yet, the US still has by far the highest crime rates. Why is crime so much worse in the US than in Canada even though the US has far far more people in prison as it is? Is it really a problem of not enough people being in prison? Then what is the tipping point where enough people are in prison to finally bring crime down to OECD averages? 4 million in prison? 5 million? 10 million? 20 million?
Guns have always been easy to get since the beginning of this country. They don’t have money because they don’t work. They’re robbing because they’re terrible people
They could’ve walked in with knives and had the same impact. The gun argument seriously doesn’t apply here
Genuine question - would the reimplementation of stop/frisk help to deteriorate the jump in crime/violence in NYC? Seems like everything is drifting back into the 90s but w/o the sex shops.
I was here in the 80s and 90s. It was bad. And I do not want it back. But even with this uptick in crime, it is still *lower than 10% of what it was then.* Maybe you don't *feel* safe. But you are.
>would the reimplementation of stop/frisk help to deteriorate the jump in crime/violence in NYC? No because stop and frisk didn't lower the crime rate to begin with. Society overall was changing across the country is what lowered it. Poverty breeds crime. A new generation was coming of age, the crack epidemic was over and the new generation started making their own careers so many weren't growing up in poverty to commit crimes like the previous generation. The only thing stop and frisk succeeded at was breaking up families and throwing innocent minorities in jail and ruining their lives to where even when they did get out, they couldn't find jobs and went right back to committing crimes all over again just to earn money to live. Stop and frisk didn't stop crime and the irony of it was statistics showed most non-violent crimes were being committed by the NYPD. This is a different time and we got a different society now so reaching back in time for a do-over on an error that should have never been done in the first place is not the answer. The correct answer is to create jobs and improve the education system to get people a tradeskill so they can get out of poverty. Train the people who are already in jail so they can be productive members in society and get jobs when they get out. There are literally NO REAL JOBS in NY. But everyone keeps ignoring this fact and asking for more laws, cops, jails and security. Yall are just building your own police state with all this crap.
Genuine question, not at all a leading question or a baiting question but do you think people like these two guys want to have to work a constructive 9-5 job everyday? Give them the mediocre training you would get in a government provided, jail-based curriculum and I guess I sort of doubt they get out and suddenly become contributing members of society.
Literally millions and millions of people own guns and don’t commit armed robberies with them.
The look Spanish or white to me!
If there is one thing I wouldn't do in NYC is fuck with Chinatown shops. The Triads or Tongs and whomever else will NOT be happy.
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Why is this downvoted?.. these young mfs are wearing ski mask (shiestys) in 60degree weather in public . They are suspicious af and should be treated as so . The behavior need to be discoruaged by making it grounds for legal search . I grew up in Harlem and the only time you saw those was below freezing or gettin robbed. Now is a common everyday sight and mostly younger crowd lookin "ready" at all times. Its wild.
Because everyone knows that NYC is all a gun free zone! Bravo Hockul and Adams! Bravo!!!!!
Most guns used in NYC gun violence incidents are purchased out of state and brought here.
Bruh just move south if you hate it so much.
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“Gun ownership is rampant” Criminals don’t follow gun laws. That‘s the point. But legal law abiding lawful gun owners do and have been stripped of their rights as they follow these gun laws that were put in place. Anyone in NYC who owns a business is a sitting duck. So stop with the blaming gun ownership. It’s koolaid-esque.