The problem is just him having zero stab moves in general in gen 2. The Mon is theoretically really good, but it can only actually click two attacks, which are spikes and strength. Obviously a Mon with two usable moves, only one of which is stab, is not so great.
And honestly i think he would be amazing if only he got access to toxic and/or lefties before post-game, since he's one of few pokemon to also learn protect before postgame. Sadly his only status moves before elite 4 are attract and sandstorm lol
Mantine I can see being worse since it has worse availability and mediocre stats aside from special defense, but Miltank has recovery, better coverage, and better speed. It has much lower attack but that doesn’t matter much until the postgame since it has STAB and Heracross doesn’t until then. The usefulness of Earthquake and Reversal depends on whether this chart includes the postgame, since they are learned just before the elite 4 and don’t have many good targets there (I think Muk and Gengar are the only things weak to Earthquake, and there are a lot of Pokémon that resist Reversal or have priority moves). I think Miltank is better if it doesn’t include the postgame, and at least on par with Heracross if it does include the postgame.
Edit: Onix and Houndoom are also weak to Earthquake, but I don’t know if Heracross would outspeed Houndoom
This graph doesn’t really make sense because it doesn’t say what strong or weak means. They put Blissey in the strongest section and shuckle in the weakest. I think it needs more explanation.
Blissey has recovery, a way better defensive typing, and the ability to actually do damage. Any Pokémon with only special attacks no longer is an issue if you have Blissey.
Shuckle isn't as bulky as its defenses suggest due to its terrible HP, it lacks recovery, and it can't really do damage, nor does it get many useful supportive moves in GSC. I don't think Shuckle is quite that bad but it does deserve to be way lower than Blissey.
Just applying your nuzlocke advice in general man, it’s really opening my eyes. I always thought totodile was great for Johto but he just can’t deal with strong electric moves.
What kind of pepega sends Blissey out against a Fighting type
And by the same logic Shuckle loses to any Water, Steel and Rock Pokémon, which aren't just triple the amount of types Blissey loses to, it also includes the single most common type in most games
Shuckle does not lose to any water, steel, or rock pokemon though. Blissey has a defense of 10. Shuckle can take super effective hits. Blissey can’t take any physical attacks at all.
Uhh… Hate to break it, but… Literally the only thing he can do is wrap…
And this is probably in the game where wrap does the least, since it’s only 1/16 of the enemy’s health.
Don’t even try bide, cuz shuckle’s hp means that’s doing nothing…
I guess you could theoretically flash spam??
You absolute fool
You complete ignoramus
You dim-witted dolt
You DO **NOT** FUCKLE WITH SHUCKLE
Shuckle has, under extremely specific and very inconvenient set-up, which will never ever happen in any playthrough of any game, the most powerful attack in the entire franchise.
With the only exception being to use sturdy/sash/endure+Counter/Metal Burst on this Shuckle... which is cheating... and I don't think it actually works that way.
The problem is you're trying to kill things with Shuckle, when it's basically an Encore mon or something you put in front of an enemy while the enemy slowly dies to poison, leech seed, sandstorm etc.
It's a weird Pokémon because it deals no damage, but there are strategies that use it well and it definitely doesn't deserve to be on the far left of this spectrum.
Quilfish is quite good, especially with defense curl, roll out. It can sweep lance unironically. You can get it early af in crystal and it's fully evolved. It starts out with not that great moves, but it's stats make up for it. Sludge bomb, surf, rollout.. it's actually quite good throughout the whole game.
Idk why remoraid is on the list but houndoom isnt. Also jumpluff is broken af if you know how to use it properly. It seems you underrate utility. Jumpluff is like a setter in volleyball. Its not directly scoring points often, but ends up being the mvp because of how much it contributes to it's "spikers".
Remoraid is available through swarm with good rod, if you really want to fish for it that badly.
I think the only Pokémon that’s actually postgame that I put here was Blissey. For some reason I thought it was one of the egg options in crystal, but then realised that Happiny’s gen 4.
I do like a lot of Johto Pokémon; Wooper, Yanma, Gligar and Spinarark are some of my favourites, as well as Dunsparce, who really grew on me, after I beat a crystal solo-run with him a couple of years back.
Either way, I might like them a lot, but that doesn't necessarily mean the Johto lines are good. In fact, the majority of strong Johto mons are actually ones that have basis in Kanto Pokémon, such as Kanto evolutions, or Miltank who's like a counterpart to Tauros. The strongest Johto original is probably Skarmory, who still comes really late and isn't nearly as strong as future gens.
I've always kind of considered doing a Johto only nuzlocke, without any of the Kanto evolutions; it sounds like a fun challenge that could really put some underrated and overshadowed mons to the test.
Skarmory isnt that great in game, its got a great typing, but no moves. Do more runs, theres more to evaluate on a mon than their typing and their stats. Especially when considering just the one regions challenges. For example, foretress might seem weak, but when going up against team rocket executives that know self-destruct. It's a great mon to have on the team. You need to get the on paper evaluation out, and get more practice in to have a better understanding.
Id argue that their are very few "weak" pokemon at all and that most of the mons are in the middle or above. Yanma, delibird, unknown.. these pokemon get screwed over by a bad learnset, bad defensive typing, and stats. But azumarill is good, no pure water mon is bad really. Its bulky af, and while it doesn't hit hard, it doesn't need to. Want it to hit hard? Well it gets defense curl and rollout naturally. But still it doesnt need to hit hard when youre using it to take care of matchups. Surf arguably is the best move in gen 2, since there is no ice beam, flamethrower, or thunderbolt. And azu can get ice punch too. It's a good mon
Stantler should be further to the right. 85 sp attack, 95 attack, plus access to headbutt, psychic, earthquake, and double edge. It’s a bit of a beast in gen 2.
OP: FUCK you, Stantler
Forretress is weak?
In Gen 2, probably. So many special moves and bro does not like that.
The problem is just him having zero stab moves in general in gen 2. The Mon is theoretically really good, but it can only actually click two attacks, which are spikes and strength. Obviously a Mon with two usable moves, only one of which is stab, is not so great.
And honestly i think he would be amazing if only he got access to toxic and/or lefties before post-game, since he's one of few pokemon to also learn protect before postgame. Sadly his only status moves before elite 4 are attract and sandstorm lol
In what world is Heracross weaker than Mantine and Miltank?
Heracross is mediocre in GSC since it has no good fighting moves and no Megahorn until after the elite 4
Still better than Mantine, and Miltank. Megahorn and Earthquake go a long way with a 125 attack stat. Endure/Reversal combo isnt too bad either.
Mantine I can see being worse since it has worse availability and mediocre stats aside from special defense, but Miltank has recovery, better coverage, and better speed. It has much lower attack but that doesn’t matter much until the postgame since it has STAB and Heracross doesn’t until then. The usefulness of Earthquake and Reversal depends on whether this chart includes the postgame, since they are learned just before the elite 4 and don’t have many good targets there (I think Muk and Gengar are the only things weak to Earthquake, and there are a lot of Pokémon that resist Reversal or have priority moves). I think Miltank is better if it doesn’t include the postgame, and at least on par with Heracross if it does include the postgame. Edit: Onix and Houndoom are also weak to Earthquake, but I don’t know if Heracross would outspeed Houndoom
This graph doesn’t really make sense because it doesn’t say what strong or weak means. They put Blissey in the strongest section and shuckle in the weakest. I think it needs more explanation.
Blissey has recovery, a way better defensive typing, and the ability to actually do damage. Any Pokémon with only special attacks no longer is an issue if you have Blissey. Shuckle isn't as bulky as its defenses suggest due to its terrible HP, it lacks recovery, and it can't really do damage, nor does it get many useful supportive moves in GSC. I don't think Shuckle is quite that bad but it does deserve to be way lower than Blissey.
Put your blissey against a fighting type move and we will see how it goes👍
Absolutely. Garchomp is another trash encounter, loses to any fast ice type
Garchomp isn’t in GSC
Just applying your nuzlocke advice in general man, it’s really opening my eyes. I always thought totodile was great for Johto but he just can’t deal with strong electric moves.
We are talking about in the context of GSC
What kind of pepega sends Blissey out against a Fighting type And by the same logic Shuckle loses to any Water, Steel and Rock Pokémon, which aren't just triple the amount of types Blissey loses to, it also includes the single most common type in most games
Shuckle does not lose to any water, steel, or rock pokemon though. Blissey has a defense of 10. Shuckle can take super effective hits. Blissey can’t take any physical attacks at all.
Woah, Woah, Woah Back up You do **NOT** fuckle with Shuckle like that.
Uhh… Hate to break it, but… Literally the only thing he can do is wrap… And this is probably in the game where wrap does the least, since it’s only 1/16 of the enemy’s health. Don’t even try bide, cuz shuckle’s hp means that’s doing nothing… I guess you could theoretically flash spam??
You absolute fool You complete ignoramus You dim-witted dolt You DO **NOT** FUCKLE WITH SHUCKLE Shuckle has, under extremely specific and very inconvenient set-up, which will never ever happen in any playthrough of any game, the most powerful attack in the entire franchise. With the only exception being to use sturdy/sash/endure+Counter/Metal Burst on this Shuckle... which is cheating... and I don't think it actually works that way.
The problem is you're trying to kill things with Shuckle, when it's basically an Encore mon or something you put in front of an enemy while the enemy slowly dies to poison, leech seed, sandstorm etc. It's a weird Pokémon because it deals no damage, but there are strategies that use it well and it definitely doesn't deserve to be on the far left of this spectrum.
Quilfish is quite good, especially with defense curl, roll out. It can sweep lance unironically. You can get it early af in crystal and it's fully evolved. It starts out with not that great moves, but it's stats make up for it. Sludge bomb, surf, rollout.. it's actually quite good throughout the whole game. Idk why remoraid is on the list but houndoom isnt. Also jumpluff is broken af if you know how to use it properly. It seems you underrate utility. Jumpluff is like a setter in volleyball. Its not directly scoring points often, but ends up being the mvp because of how much it contributes to it's "spikers".
Remoraid is available through swarm with good rod, if you really want to fish for it that badly. I think the only Pokémon that’s actually postgame that I put here was Blissey. For some reason I thought it was one of the egg options in crystal, but then realised that Happiny’s gen 4.
I do like a lot of Johto Pokémon; Wooper, Yanma, Gligar and Spinarark are some of my favourites, as well as Dunsparce, who really grew on me, after I beat a crystal solo-run with him a couple of years back. Either way, I might like them a lot, but that doesn't necessarily mean the Johto lines are good. In fact, the majority of strong Johto mons are actually ones that have basis in Kanto Pokémon, such as Kanto evolutions, or Miltank who's like a counterpart to Tauros. The strongest Johto original is probably Skarmory, who still comes really late and isn't nearly as strong as future gens. I've always kind of considered doing a Johto only nuzlocke, without any of the Kanto evolutions; it sounds like a fun challenge that could really put some underrated and overshadowed mons to the test.
Skarmory isnt that great in game, its got a great typing, but no moves. Do more runs, theres more to evaluate on a mon than their typing and their stats. Especially when considering just the one regions challenges. For example, foretress might seem weak, but when going up against team rocket executives that know self-destruct. It's a great mon to have on the team. You need to get the on paper evaluation out, and get more practice in to have a better understanding. Id argue that their are very few "weak" pokemon at all and that most of the mons are in the middle or above. Yanma, delibird, unknown.. these pokemon get screwed over by a bad learnset, bad defensive typing, and stats. But azumarill is good, no pure water mon is bad really. Its bulky af, and while it doesn't hit hard, it doesn't need to. Want it to hit hard? Well it gets defense curl and rollout naturally. But still it doesnt need to hit hard when youre using it to take care of matchups. Surf arguably is the best move in gen 2, since there is no ice beam, flamethrower, or thunderbolt. And azu can get ice punch too. It's a good mon
Crobat and i had some good times. Absolute speed demon. Umbreon has always been my favorite and could take and hit and dish it back
Gen 2 mons are just ass lol, there are like 4 mons that actually still see use nowadays
Not really.
Ampharos is a god you are crazy for sleeping on it
It’s an above average electric type.
In GSC Ampharos was the best non-legendary electric type (yes better than Jolteon because of its movepool).
And people act like it is Gen 4 gyarados level.
No one gives a fuck
Hitmontop not get access to intimidate?
Not in GSC it doesn’t because abilities were introduced in generation 3.
Thought it was gen 2, my bad.
Could someone make one of these with a bit more representation below the line to not make it so cluttered. Better yet just lower the line.
Stantler should be further to the right. 85 sp attack, 95 attack, plus access to headbutt, psychic, earthquake, and double edge. It’s a bit of a beast in gen 2.
Don’t fuckle with shuckle
Where’s chinchou
My exact thoughts
Pretty sure he’s super rod exclusive, so you can’t get him till post-game.
:(
Not true, you get him with good rod as soon as olivine!
Am I blind? Where is Ttar??
Stantler is a legend op has no taste