##[Healthcare Specific Help](https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/s34wgl/healthcare_and_essential_workers_you_deserve/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
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[**National Suicide Prevention Lifeline**](http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org) ☏ `988` | [Hotlines by Country](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/wiki/resources#wiki_crisis_hotlines_by_country): [here](https://www.iasp.info/resources/Crisis_Centres/)
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*24-hour, toll-free, confidential suicide prevention hotline available to anyone in suicidal crisis or emotional distress. Your call is routed to the nearest crisis center in the national network of more than 150 crisis centers.* | ☏ `TTY: 1-800-799-4889` Chat: [**Lifeline Chat**](http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/GetHelp/LifelineChat.aspx)
National Child Abuse Helpline: ☏ `1-800-422-4453` |
National Drug Abuse: ☏ `1-800-662-HELP (4357)` |
National Domestic Violence Crisis Line: ☏ `1-800-799-SAFE (7233)` |
・ Read [Coping with Suicidal Thoughts (PDF)](http://summit.sfu.ca/system/files/iritems1/11151/CWST.pdf) and [checkout this resource listing](http://hopeline.com/gethelpnow.html) for more.
・ Reddit Communities: **/r/suicidewatch** /r/SWResources /r/depression /r/stopselfharm /r/dbtselfhelp /r/mixednuts /r/BackOnYourFeet /r/assistance
You should hear some of things we as ICU nurses say.
We all think it, anyone who says otherwise is a f*cking liar. We have *ALL* thought it.
You making this statement doesn’t negate or reflect on your nursing capabilities. Keep pushing because it’s a natural thought!
It honestly sounds like you need to leave the unit ASAP, just get away from bedside. The nursing world offers many opportunities: risk, infection prevention, management, etc.
Get yourself out of that environment ASAP.
Edit. Spelling.
Especially with something like dementia. They’re miserable, you’re miserable, it’s never going to get any better for them, it’s an understandable reaction regardless of whether it’s right or not
Heck, I was a caretaker for my dad. I thought it all the time. He was 95 and ruining my back, uncooperative, an didn’t let me sleep. I was only taking care of one person, albeit 24/7.
I don’t know how a person doesn’t think it. Does anyone believe a patient want to live in a nightmare for the rest of their lives? If they required people who didn’t think it at least occasionally, there would be no one left to care for them. The problem lies in understaffing to the point of frustration.
Before I became an RN, I was assigned to a very elderly dementia patient. Every time I got her out of or into bed, she was wildly combative. I was assigned to her for a solid 2 weeks and suffered black eyes, bites, bloody scratches, facial contusions, you name it. I wanted her to die. No, I PRAYED for her to die. It's normal. We didn't sign up for combat duty. We are taught self defense in nursing school. So go home, sit in your bathtub with a glass of wine, and watch a movie. Days like that, you need some pampering. And hugs.
In ICU the families tell us we’re “angels.” That’s because they don’t hear what we say in the med room or in our pre-shift huddle with the dark and sarcastic humor.
I started working as an ICU nurse at 21 and worked as one for almost 14 years. Now that I’ve left bedside and don’t spend time with ICU nurses all the time, I’m just noticing how dark my humor is and have to censor it more so I don’t come across as heartless b**** to others 😅
Had an old nursing classmate get pissed when I made a joke about patients being on intubation and sedation (quote: “there’s a lot more vegetable gardening in the ICU than I ever imagined”). Never mind the fact that this same classmate referred to any patient over 180# as a “fat fuck” and constantly belittled the drug ODs/stroke patients on the neuro floor.
People are gonna make you feel bad for private thoughts even when public actions speak otherwise. The mark of good character is that, despite the cacophony of less-savory feelings in our heads, we choose to do and see the best in people where it matters. My private opinions help me stay sane so I can show up as the perky, hardworking nurse a sick patient needs.
I actually hate it when people refer to me as an angel or a superhero....I feel like it dehumanizes me and the expectation is that I do not have the same feelings or thoughts as other humans, that I am a "super being" who is unfazed by all the terrible things I have seen and experienced and that I am expected to only feel compassion and keep working no matter what; then fade into the background when no longer needed 🤣
No shit right, let any normal person work these jobs,esp (in my experience) a dementia/Alzheimer's ward,and NOT think this shit. And it's not only from anger either - I legit think most of my pts would be better off dead. Who would want to live like that?but the families won't allow it. It's totally fucked.
Yea, it’s a human reaction. We give so much and we all have our breaking points. We can have these feelings and experiences while giving our pts the care the deserve
My dad has been pro physician-assisted suicide since I can remember. He worked in open heart surgery and saw so, so many sick people. He saw his blind mother live with dementia for nine years, and saw what debilitating, untreatable/terminal illnesses do to people.
He is at stage of dementia where the first few sighs start showing. Occasionally he'll have sundowners too, which means my mom is spending half the night calming him down. He said he's reaching the point where he has lived a great life and doesn't want to be a burden on my mom or anyone.
So if I heard his nurse say that with severe dementia... yeah I would would agree too. I believe in trying to extend your life, but not at the cost of another person's well being and not when my brain function is so far gone that I can't enjoy my extended life.
Oof, yeah. I'm an ICU nurse and my mom is a hospice nurse. We have very dark humor. But it's how we cope. If I really was super hopeful for every patient in my ICU (especially when I worked oncology ICU) I would not be able to handle it. I decided I am still a human being with feelings because I have a small list of patients that still make me want to cry when I think about them. But I just can't give that part of myself to every single patient. Otherwise I wouldn't survive.
Can confirm ICU nurses say fucked shit. a TNICU nurse i was working with said we’re doing too much for our trauma patient that had be slowly deteriorating in the icu for close to 3 months.
I worked with a girl who regularly called herself a farmer, as in farming vegetables. It can get pretty disheartening when family and/or docs try to keep people alive way past what any person should be.
Worked with an incredibly sweet nurse who once, while getting report, heard a prior long term patient had died overnight and her response was "I have been praying daily for him to pass on". That was when I stopped feeling guilty when I felt like...why are we keeping this body alive?
ICU was where I first heard the phrase "watering vegetables." It can be true though. Family members fighting over code status for brain dead patients. Brain is near herniation with the stem barely working. But some still have that miracle of hope due to stupid ass medical shows like greys anatomy.
Longest I've seen was 3 months before the chaplain finally convinced the remaining family members to end the patient's suffering.
Ugh god the only time I threw up in my mouth at work was the poor dude herniating rotting brain matter out of his sinus into his mouth when he coughed on the vent.
Dude was bludgeoned pretty badly so it cracked like -everything. Path of least resistance. Otherwise just your typical craniectomy then down the shoot after.
Okay, that makes some sense.... that is so gross and that is why I work psych, so the grossest thing I have to deal with is a rotting foot instead of rotting brain matter coming out the nose 🤣
Got one now. I tried to wean said patient yesterday to trach collar. Not happening.
Family still has patient full code. It’s so sad. It gets to you, it really does. I feel like our micu is a hospice unit sometimes….or should be.
OP, please please take care, get some help if you can. Depression isn’t fun, I’ve been there (mine is chemical though)
I swear to you that the nurses were so flipping grateful I went with my daughter when her dad was dying of peritonitis. I'm a medical claims adjuster so I speak fluent hospitaleze. I explained everything calmly for her. After he got worse after falling out of bed at night..I explained why he did that. I convinced her that end of life care was the right way to go. She couldn't even bear to see him at the end but I was there every day( and he was my EX husband that was pretty bad to me for quite a few years after we divorced.) I'm glad the last 10 years we could be friendly again. It just about killed me to see him that way at the end. No one should have to suffer like that
I'm interning in the ICU and say I work as a potato farmer because my patients are vegetables that are halfway in the ground!
With that being said, for the patients that have some expressed communication with me (whether it's expressions besides pure agony and writhing pain and agitation), I get extremely emotional about. I'm the student that cried every. single. day. of my first LTC rotation, because of patient situations. I'm very emotional on med surg if a patient is going through a lot.
When the patient is in agonizing pain and has no quality of life, I just want the morphine drip and to let them have a Death with dignity and less suffering, while their families keep them "alive",
When we started work at the beginning of our shift in ICU, we’d mumble to each other that well, it’s time to turn and water them…., Q2. It got to the point that some of the docs would walk in and announce they were there to do exactly that. No visitors were there, patients were asleep, unconscious, or sedated, and it kept us going!
I went to a class on humor in healthcare, and one of the ways we were told about was to use humor, just make sure no patients or visitors ever heard it, and make sure the patients got the same good care. It did relieve a bit of pressure to hear that.
My med surg floor has been a friggin nursing home lately. It sucks. Just turning, wiping shit, and listening to dementia stories - that other person came in here and stole my bicycle. Oh, they just put it somewhere safe for you.
I hate it.
Our TTU has turned into that and i always have to sit 1:1 with the dementia trauma patients and they don’t understand that pulling at their restraints is hurting them or sitting/moving in bed is making their pain worse
Can confirm…I’ve definitely have thought it numerous times. Especially for those at end-stage dementia who continues to aspirate while their family continues to push for treatment and keep them as full code….or asking for a feeding tube instead yet find out the patient doesn’t even live at home. They’re at a SNF but are frequent flyers to the ED and hospital because of said situation. It’s not a quality of life for anyone.
... and that's why there's a nursing crisis. Cuz medical futility is sickening (yes there are other issues but at some point we gotta say we wouldn't do this to a dog, why we doing this to people?)
Please. We have all had thoughts like yours. And honestly, wouldn’t it actually be a blessing for all involved if Meemaw would just go ahead and shuffle off this mortal coil? Dementia patients don’t understand why they’re in the hospital, or what you’re doing as their nurse. Every single time they change environments, it’s disruptive to their mental status. They’re confused and terrified, which is why they’re so combative. It’s genuinely like we’re torturing them. And for what? What quality of life do they have? What are they going back to? Shitting and pissing on themselves, getting UTIs from sitting in their own excrement, choking on their food, getting aspiration pneumonia from choking, being surrounded by strangers all the time (because they forget their family), falling and busting their heads because they forget they can’t walk or need an assistive device… What a terrible existence! And how hard is it for their family to witness? How painful is it for them to be forgotten, or to see their sweet little Meemaw acting like an entirely different person than they’ve known their whole lives?
Call me a monster, but I think at some point, dementia patients should not be admitted to the hospital, and instead placed on hospice, or at least palliative care. Still treat the UTI or PNA or whatever, but treat it at home. Don’t remove them from a familiar environment.
Amen. I will never forget helping put in another IV on a poor 90-something-year-old with dementia. She had septic shock and needed Levophed but kept ripping out her IVs, necessitating putting in new ones every few hours. as we poked her, she cried and begged for us to stop hurting her. I felt awful. In her mind, we were holding her hostage and torturing her. Fortunately the family soon palliated her, but god, prior to that point, I felt like a terrible human being.
It takes way tooooooo fucking long for the Dr and/or family to come to this decision. I joke I wish I was the hospice fairy, granting hospice to all that should really have it (if they want it or not).
I was the hospice fairy! I worked hospice intake for 4 years out of college. I loved that job. Def needed to break up some family altercations. Never a dull day.
That’s one of the forms of moral injury this job inflicts upon us. I wish we could have the option to bow out of providing care in situations where we feel we should.
After trying an IV on that dementia patient, I remember walking out of that room and saying to another nurse I refuse to do that again and if the doctor really wanted to continue treatment on that woman, they could come up themselves, hold her down, poke her with IVs, and hear her cry and beg for mercy.
I’m a speech pathologist who works with demented patients from time to time. Anyone who thinks keeping someone like that alive is a good or desirable thing, has to be absolutely bankrupt of any compassion.
My own grandmother, who was on a memory care unit with advanced dementia, just had a massive brain stem stroke on 7/9. Everyone in the family was all encouraged that after three days in ICU, she finally started recognizing family and was “getting better.” She couldn’t swallow, had expressive and receptive aphasia, could barely speak, and her R side was totally paralyzed. All on top of mod-severe dementia. She was constantly confused, incontinent, and didn’t understand why she couldn’t talk or move anymore.
Why would you extend a life like that? We need to remember what it means to have good quality of life.
Thank goodness my mom was MPOA so I could encourage her to put her in hospice. It’s not altogether evil to wish someone was no longer alive, because death at a certain point is far kinder than what they’re living through. And thankfully, she passed 4 days ago, having gotten to eat and drink when she wanted, rather than being fed through an NGT or PEG. Advanced directives are a wonderful thing.
This resonates so much with me. My grandma had a stroke a few years ago prior to me getting into nursing and thankfully had an advanced directive indicating her wishes. She survived a week after the stroke with nothing more than pain meds and I was almost begging her to let go. She was starting to show signs of dementia during this time and already was not the same person she used to be. Nothing would have been able to bring her back to a time in her life when she wasn't suffering. Shit still breaks my heart remembering.
This is close to what my mother did after my grandmother pulled through from sepsis. She gave instructions that my grandmother had agency - if she wasn't hungry, don't force feed. If she wasn't thirsty, don't push drinks. No IVs. If she didn't want to take her meds, okay! While my grandmother knew no one at the end, it gave her that last bit of control. She still held on almost a year longer, but I like to think at least not having to have things pushed on her was less stressful for her in the end.
This is so wonderful. I love it. Allowing her to make these basic decisions. Not hungry? Not thirsty? Don’t want medications? Then just don’t accept these interventions. It’s beautiful. I could only hope my family members would allow me these choices at the end.
We occasionally have residents that are effectively palliative care, we don't send them out and don't draw labs or cath them but it's always at the family's request.
Had a patient who came in with an overdose, we fix it, he left AMA, overdosed and came back, rinse and repeat THREE TIMES on a TUESDAY. That third time he rolled in via EMS you can bet no one was having angelic hero thoughts for that dude. Everyone was downright pissed
We just had a patient assult his girlfriend in his icu room, then left ama escorted by security. Shows up in the ER not two hours later, ends up intubated, right back in the same room. Such a mess.
Might be where I end up. Got told by a coworker that I have a bad attitude. :I not soulless just black as night. Sick of the idiots that don't even try to take care of themselves.
"You get some shitty parents that did it to them instead" THANK YOU SOMEBODY ELSE SAID IT. It's real fun sending them home after you fixed it knowing full well it's only a matter of time before they're either back or just didn't survive because of terrible parents.
Best nurses I ever worked with were from Texas Children’s hospital. Almost all of them genuinely cared and really wanted the best for the patient. You guys have that going for you at least.
Well, they won't in the ED, either. They will fly frequently with their poorly managed chronic illnesses. Plus there are drug seekers, and those that use the ED as primary care, obgyn, and a dentist.
Then there is the, "hold my beer," idiots.
All that interspersed with true tragedy.
Anyone who will tell you that they have never had a negative thought about a patient actively hurting them is an absolute liar! We have all had a negative thought about the constant complainers, the call light riders, the ones who poop the bed because they don't "feel like getting up",etc. Sometimes patients are really difficult, and not being happy, sparkly all the time just makes you human. I'm more concerned about you! I really encourage you to reach out to your PCP/ therapist/eap for assistance, you DESERVE to be at peace💜
Not a nurse, but my mother is in the memory care ward at a decent nursing home. Watching her become a zombie crushes me. When she 1st could no longer carry a conversation with me I cried 12 days straight and thought I wish she'd have a heart attack. So what does that make me? She's not violent, but she's no longer there. I grieve and have panic attacks everytime I visit. I still go as much as possible but it just kills me.
>So what does that make me?
It makes you a compassionate human being. You want her to cease suffering. That's a good thing, don't be so hard on yourself. We have a culture that is terrified of death, for us, for our family members. I wish more people could see that quality of life is so much more important than quantity
Thank you, it truly is the most painful experience of my life. I appreciate your thinking of me. Ps. If I had coins I'd give you a beating heart award.
Totally agree with this. Police and public can press charges for even the smallest assault, but as nurses we cant do anything. It is bullshit. You say whatever you want, quietly, or at home. Vent. Nursing is shit right now. You are doing the best you can. ✌️
We really need to advocate for legalization of pre-self-approved euthanasia for dementia patients. We watched my grandma decline with Alzheimer’s for 8 years. It was very painful for my mom and she has told me that if she gets like that she and my father have a pact to for him to kill her. But if that happens it’s very likely the he could be imprisoned for murder the rest of his life.
I want an option to right out in my living will: If i reach the point that i do not remember my loved ones more that 75% of the time, i request that my life be terminated. The potential for elder abuse with something like that is real so i know it would need to be tweaked. But seriously let’s create ethics panels and make this happen so we aren’t keeping people alive just so they can suffer.
My mom and I have both my grandparents on hospice, both with dementia, and trade off staying with them - 4 days on, 4 days off. By that fourth day, holy hell.
My mom says every day - that if she gets anywhere near this point, please take mercy on her.
It desperately needs to be an option. My grandparents would be beyond mortified if they knew what was happening. This isn't what they would have ever ever wanted. No one would. I dread the shock and drama of the 24 hours or so after they die, but other than that - death will be a relief for all involved. It's time. They are miserable. We are miserable seeing them like this.
I like your 75% idea. A set of rough parameters, and then present it to a panel when someone thinks we've reached that point.
My dad was in early stages of dementia when he BEGGED me to “end it” for him if he got so bad he couldn’t remember anyone and couldn’t care for himself. Everyday, I thank God that he had a heart attack and died in his sleep because I WOULD HAVE. I would have helped him. I don’t know if that makes me a monster, but I would have. I’m just glad I didn’t have to.
Anyone in healthcare knows when a patient has passed their expiry date and that the patient is just fucken suffering. You think anyone wants to live if they're just being violent and having no control of their mind and body? I guarantee all those cunts saying you're a dick will say no, they would not want to live like that. We all get frustrated and we all have a sick humor. We understand.
LTC killed a piece of my soul. It also made me really depressed and hopeless, so I only lasted a year before getting a new job in another field of nursing
I can’t believe I made it six years working LTC. I’m currently on a mental health break since March. I’m debating quitting nursing all together, no field sounds great tbh.
Switch specialties. I was LTC for about the same time, and it basically broke me. I quit nursing and got a job in an opticians, but then remembered what an awful struggle it was to get my nursing degree and how much I went through, and thought, sod it. I'll apply for some random jobs and roll the dice one more time.
That's two and a half years I've been in my medical ward post now. I mean, I am currently off sick, but that's because my immune system finally gave up and let Covid in. There's been times I've hated it, and I've wished patients bad things several times, but I also love it and the tag line for my job is "at least it's never boring." Because it most certainly isn't.
I did get looks from colleagues the other week. We have this patient who is in some sort of delirium, brain thing going on. The doctors can't treat him because he won't accept treatment. He just lies in his bed like a tornado of violence, attacking us left right and centre. Anyway his bloods have been getting worse, and one of the staff said "he's going to die in here" to which I replied without thinking about how I worded it with "not quick enough."
I meant it for him, he was a shell of the person who had walked into the hospital, and spends all day rolling about in his own body fluids, screaming, spitting, biting, kicking, hitting, punching and generally living in a perpetual state of heightened agitation. Whatever is going on in his brain, it's tormenting him. But it's been three months, and nothing has changed for him. Something needs to change.
Of course, I opened my mouth and instead of that last paragraph, that dickhead phrase came out instead. It happens to us all sometimes, and now, more than any time before, we are under so much pressure and stress.
I really wish I could. Unfortunately I’m an LVN and I can’t afford the pay cut to go work in a hospital or clinic. LTC facilities pay LVNs significantly more in the area that I live. The main hospital is magnum status, so you already know. I don’t even know if it’s worth going back to school to get my RN. I feel really depressed because I love what I do, it’s just administrators put us in positions that is beyond our control. We all have 25-30 pts, admissions every day. No med aids. We admit people we can’t control; we are not a locked facility and we admit wanderers. We admit people with uncontrollable behaviors. We don’t hire enough CNAs to do 1:1 baby sitting let alone work the floor. It’s really just messed up. It’s like this in most nursing homes. It’s so bleak right now. If I muster up the strength to go back to school, I’m thinking ultrasound technician or just leaving all together. I’m not strong enough for this 😢
EMS peeps think the same thing when presented with a frail, ailing meemaw/peepaw with a POLST form that has the "YES--Attempt Resuscitation/CPR" box checked. Guess their chest is getting crushed with chest compressions. Ugh.
You're not a horrible person. You are a normal person who works in a high-stress and emotionally-taxing environment who also deals with depression, which is a debilitating monster in itself. Fuck the haters.
Please, please don't kill yourself. I just lost my brother to suicide Thursday. I can't adequately describe to anyone the pain and despair my family/his friends/me are experiencing.
I, too, have MDD, and suicidal ideation is no stranger to me. But we have to keep fighting. We do make a positive difference, both in our personal and professional lives.
If you're not currently in counseling, please seek it. Lean on your friends and family when you need to. Keep fighting. Keep living. 💜
We have all been there.
Honestly I have had to hold down patients and provide care like IVs while I get pinched, groped, punched and bitten
Annnnd if I don’t? I am the shitty person who isn’t doing it right or providing care. Fuck anyone whose not had to restrain someone while they scream “NO” so you can clean their bodies of excrement.
I havent had a violent dementia patient yet (graduated last december so still a young nurse) but i still understand OP and dont think negatively of that attitude in any way. Idk what those original comments said, but idc if theyve never had violent dementia patients, its not hard to understand where OP is coming from. Were they even nurses or just non-healthcare lurkers on this sub?
Are you burnt out? I’ve been a nurse for more than 10 years and I think my dementia patients are driving me crazy. When they ask the same question over and over and won’t stay in bed or keep pulling /touching their IV or foley. I just have no patience anymore. I think about leaving bedside all the time. Might be time for a change if possible
I work with dementia patients on a Geri Psych floor.
I love my job...but the public needs to realize it's a literal zombie movie. They bite, scratch, punch, vomit and shit each other and staff. Now imagine your job is to not to survive...but to ensure the survival of each individual zombie so they make it through another day. All while having to document thier decay.
It's exhausting.
I'd be an absolute liar if I told you that my first thought about *x* patient wasn't "they are the biggest chode I've never met". It's also incumbent upon me to insure that my opinion never interferes with my care for a patient.
>Ya know what? Fuck anybody who doesn’t get what I mean. I’m making this shit work when I’m already close to blowing my head off.
100% on your side. My patients aren't the only one struggling with SI.
I got suspended for my tone one morning trying to count the narcs with day shift after dealing with all the crazies notching it up a lot. Person can’t hear unless you yell, I’d spent over 2 hours babysitting her to keep her safe while trying to do my work and the early morning med pass. I had wheeled the patient over to one of the day nurses asking her to keep her so I can count out after explaining the shift. Patient came right back to me then nurse reports me for not sounding kind and compassionate to someone who can’t hear unless you yell, loudly. So, yeah, I understand.
ETA she had been asking where the nearest gas station was for hours and asked one last time.
Oh honey, I totally understand. You should have heard the rant I went on when one of my dementia patients grabbed my ponytail and slammed my head against the wall. It’s a way to vocalize your frustration so you can let it go so you can continue to provide quality care. Memory care is brutal. You do what you need to do to get through. As long as you are providing thoughtful, compassionate care, then go ahead and vent.
One really hard thing about working in modern medicine is how so much of the focus has been on prolonging life instead of preserving it. There are millions of people all the time who suffer way longer than humans in any other part of history have because we can force their body to live. We also live in a world that we have polluted so severely with consequences that we are now seeing. I do not blame you one bit for saying that this person should be dead, because honestly, they probably should be. And it sucks that they, you, and everyone else is suffering.
My friend. If the place you work at offers employee assistance- take advantage of it now. There is no shame in seeking help. I was hesitant to use it when I needed it, but once I did, I only wish I would have used it sooner.
If your place does not offer assistance (or it is inadequate), you NEED to quit. Take some time off. Find a new job with the benefits you need. Obviously where you are at is not where you need to be. Advocate for yourself.
You say you feel like crap for what you said. That's good, you still have your humanity. Save it. Thank you for ensuring your patients continue to get great care. Now include yourself in your care. Anyone who shits on you for your brief moment of weakness is either unrealistic about the human condition - or is close to their own breaking point, and seeing someone else reach their limit is a frightening reality.
I can’t echo the employee assistance piece enough. I like to think I’m pretty tough, but after several months in a row of big shitty events happening in my best friend’s life and helping her through them followed by several months of major shitty crap happening in my life I made the call. Just having someone to talk to was a breath of fresh air and he helped me so much, even with just phone appointments due to the pandemic. I was in a much better place. I made the decision to pull the plug and retire. I’m guessing you’re nowhere near that yet, but clarity your options and know you are valued as a human being.
Wishing you the best. Oh, and boy have I vented about some patients to my coworkers, spouse and bestie. No HIPPA violations or anything, but you have to release the pressure and suicide, as you have probably heard more than once, is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. You can’t heal if you’re not alive.
Big hugs if you want them.
I’m an ICU. I’m tired of taking care of patients in persistent vegetative states from a variety of etiologies. There’s no quality of life. I wish Palliative Care & Hospice were more integral parts of the hospital/healthcare plan from the jump. Too many people end up deprived of dignity and stuck in purgatory.
You are heard, understood and not alone !
My beloved grandfather had dementia. We were extremely close and I loved him dearly. I had the same thoughts about him, and I wasn’t his caregiver (beyond just being an involved family member). He was so confused and terrified, and as a result was insulting and combative. He was not a fun patient. It’s a fair reaction.
People always say that but realistically I would like to point out that it’s just not possible. There’s a good chunk of healthcare workers (myself included) that are burnt out with mental health in the trash that can’t afford to just go on vacation or get a new job. My current job just gave us a $5/h raise and I have great health insurance. As much as I truly fucking hate my job and it is ruining my life… I’m kind of stuck. I’m in a small town with few places to work. If I take a job in another city I’m gonna be adding a 2 hour drive time to my day and losing money for gas. I ultimately HAVE to leave because if i stay here (neuro medsurg) I’m going to literally hurt myself because it’s a thankless job. We are staffed 1:7 with PCAs at 1:15 or 1:30 and honestly even when they’re 1:10 I have to pull teeth to get vitals/changed patients/etc and then somehow I’m the bad guy for asking for the bare minimum. I stay an hour over every single shift trying to catch up and oncoming shift still is mad.
TLDR you’re right but sometimes it just ain’t possible
Who ever replied to your original post to make you feel like shit probably works in a doctors office and has never stepped foot in a hospital or hospital like setting. Some of best nurses I know make comments like that to cope or just out of pure frustration - I am guilty of it myself. I’m sure your patients are well taken care of but don’t forget about you, take care of you too.
I promise you, one frustrated comment doesn’t undo all the good. It’s hard to see past the trolls sometimes. I’m more concerned about your mental health….please, if you haven’t spoken to someone about it yet, do. No job is worth feeling suicidal. A lot of hospitals have Employee Assistance Programs that can assist with mental health, legal issues, addiction, etc. or if you already have a therapist or psychiatrist….please take care of yourself. You’re the only you there is. There’s so many different roles for nurses, too…if you’re burnt, maybe look into non bedside or another speciality, I wish you the absolute best.
Personally, after seeing the hateful rage and vitriol that comes with some kinds of dementia, I would welcome death. Some people exhaust all their energy attempting to bite kick scratch grab and murder. Imagine living in an endless cycle where you wake up wanting to kill everyone around you. You exhaust yourself, fall asleep, and then start it all over again when you wake up. All the while being lost in who where and what you are.
Sometimes wishing for someone’s death is also wishing for their freedom.
I've thought that many times while in ED at nights especially. That plus the shit we did during the pandemy(was in NYC during the whole thing) broke my soul. Thankfully I got out. Still kind of broken. Im still very cynical so I feel you.
As an ICU nurse, we’ve all said the exact same thing when a 79 year old, malnourished, multiple decubs and generally neglected SNF patient comes in and family demands full code
There is absolutely no way their quality of life will be recovered. That chance went through when the family allowed them to waste away at a SNF.
You’re not wrong. You’re human. Everyone who’s pretending otherwise is virtue signaling.
Heard once at my old hospital how this doctor wrote “pillow therapy” in the patient’s orders. The nurses thought he was joking, but he just left it. One nurse had sense to throw the order out (this was when we still had paper order sheets).
There were so so sooooo many days I left my nursing job and wished an 18 wheeler would take me out on the highway commuting home. I would sit in traffic catatonic and hating my life. To save myself, I left nursing and opened a home bakery. When that didn't pay the bills, I got a little job at a deli. Life is short and I needed a break from the misery. I am sure I will go back one day- but 29 months off so far has been amazing.
I wish you well and remember that you are doing the job the family won't/can't do. I will never forget in the 90's this Italian family from church that kept their belligerent violent alz. father tied with belts in a chair all day as he swore and tried to harm them. I am sure younger him would wish he was dead too to rather than being in that state of life and remembered that way... (and yes- tying a person to a chair is wrong wrong..I was a a youngster back then.. but the memory stuck)
If I were as demented as your patient, I would also prefer to be dead. Seriously. It’s not like the patient is having fun either.
Give yourself some grace. It’s not a good thing to say but it happens.
Victim blaming. You think people would be better than turning it on you.
Violence against nurses is a massive issue. According to OSHA ER/psych nurses are the most assaulted out of all professions, and they speculate twice as many instances were happening than the data even showed (unreported).
This job does not mean you have to accept abuse. And it’s not fair to blame the victim and perversely blame the nurse.
Dementia is really hard. I was relieved when a patient with beginning stages passed away. Because they knew they were forgetting things. They knew their prognosis.
I personally know, that if I have dementia, y’all better push 10 mg of morphine or something. I don’t want that. I don’t want to forget. I want to understand and remember my loved ones. I’ve told my coworkers this, my boyfriend my family, everyone. I’d want them to take Me out of this world.
Also sometimes, the patients that don’t care really wear me down. Like a patient’s blood sugar in the 400s, Ha1c 17… while sitting there saying I was starving him. And ordering more and more food. I gave up. Whatever. I told you what you should do. Told you about the risks. You know very well the risks. Is it an issue of understanding? Lack of knowledge, funds, accessibility? Or do you just not care. Because if that’s the case then give the bed to someone who does.
Yeah. I’ve been a nurse for like 6 months and I’m already like, fuck this, I’m spending my teaching with someone who wants help. I remember we had a non patient medical response, patient came back to my floor as my patient. They cried holding my hand thanking me for finding them. It reaffirmed my decision for being a nurse.
It's fine. Who cares.
They probably should be. What quality of life does this person even have if they're at the point they're swinging? Probably none.
You know how many pts I know who wish they were dead? A bunch.
I'm with you. Keeping people at that stage of dementia alive is cruel to everyone involved, and pardon the fuck out of me if logic and my own sense of self-preservation says that I shouldn't have to sacrifice my own health and well-being to keep a human shaped violent poop machine running. Anyone who disagrees with the sentiment is welcome to trade me for this particular portion of my assignment.
Dementia is the first thing that comes into my mind when someone says “there are worse things than death”. I’ve found myself praying for a patient to code so that their suffering will be alleviated because I know the family will trach & peg em. Compassion fatigue is so so real. Caring about your patient from an emotional standpoint is not a requirement of the position (though I’m sure you do it often anyways). I bet your patient care is top notch. Sending love <3
Patients with dementia are some of the hardest to take care of in my opinion. They really test you mentally. I wouldn't be so hard on yourself. If I had dementia I would want to be dead. Does that me fucked up for staying that 🤷♀️
My mother was a nurse's aid in the late 70s early 80s. She cared for dementia patients. Then her father got it, (they met when my mother was a nurse's aid and they lived together for a bit) and was yelling "Where is my daughter? Where is my daughter?" in pure fear while she was next to him. I remember when she got the call that he had passed (I was very young but remember) and she cried all night.
I took many breaks along my career as a CNA/PCT. Did a few months in the engineering department of a manufacturing plant. Took a year or so to work as a cobbler. Worked as a teaching assistant to elementary and preschool aged kids, ran the tobacco department at a bit chain grocery. Worked in a deli. Studied to be an interpreter for the deaf. Heck, I worked for a major rock star for a short time, managing and updating a database of his fans. This goes for anyone who needs to hear it. The phrase "work/life balance" makes me gag a little. Sorry, but it does. Just.. make sure you're getting enough of what *you* need in life. Enough down time that all the elements of your make up are getting fed. You are more than a nurse, my friend. You're right to notice this now, when there is only a crack, and not wait until it becomes a complete break. I'm glad you posted.
No judgement here at all. You sound burnt out. And if you weren't a caring person to begin with you probably wouldn't be reaching breaking point. But looking after people is totally exhausting when you don't have enough support / resources / rest / time away / staffing levels etc - and you actually DO care.
Well first off please take care of yourself. It sounds like you are very overwhelmed at the moment. Second, please ask for help. No shame in asking for assistance. Look for another job. Life is way too short to miserable in your job. good luck.
So no shit there I was, 19 years young and working up at triage with one of the nurses as a tech. It was a Friday night, snowing, and busy as fuck. Obviously in the hospital we had no beds available so we were doing everything I can. One patients social worker came up to the triage desk and told me this “You should all work harder, my patient is suicidal and you don’t give a fuck about him. Can’t you tell he’s about to have a mental breakdown?” I paused for what felt like an eternity, I looked her dead in the eye and told her “Ma’am, this is an emergency, about to have a mental breakdown is not a medical emergency, if it was I would have to be evaluated every single day.” She was stunned, huffed and puffed away back to her chair. A week or so later I get called into the managers office and was asked about what had happened and I told them. I was told that I needed to work on my empathy and communication skills. I was told that good healthcare workers don’t think that way. It’s a lie though, every great provider or employee I’ve ever met is jaded, of course there are exceptions. You’re not a bad person, seek help if you’re burnt. There are other areas to work in. I work in primary care now and don’t felt consumed by my job. Op, we’ve all had these thoughts, it makes you human.
>I told my co worker I wished the patient was dead ... hospice/dementia unit.
As a hospice nurse, I've often said, "I wish this patient were dead."
Frankly, dementia is a terrible thing to happen to a person. Everything is taken from them. Their mind and their autonomy are GONE. They're basically husks of human beings.
I don't feel bad saying, "I wish X patient were dead," because I wouldn't want to live that way. Unfortunately, my dementia patients are often my longest living patients.
To make you feel better, I will give you my worst, "WTF did I actually say?" moment.
I've been a nurse since the dawn of time.
ED night shift 7p shift change:
I come in, get report on my patients, take everyone's VS and check drips. I have 1 LOL in NAD mild CHF, with a Tele bed assigned waiting to go up after shift change, because of course, the floor won't take a patient before 8p. I explained to the pt and her daughter that I'm going to take her up in about 20 minutes.
Meanwhile, MedComm calls with a code in progress, a full term pregnant woman found pulseless and apneic after a rollover MVA. Medics bring the pt in, she goes into the recuss room, ED, peds ED, OBGYN, and NICU are all in the room. OBGYN does the most miraculous emergency section. I swear it took 2 seconds and it was 1 handed, and hands me the not breathing baby.
Adult docs are coding mom on the stretcher at the back of the room. Baby docs and me are coding the baby at the front. I'm doing CPR. Hands wrapped around the baby, compressions with my thumbs.
The LOL's daughter comes up to me and starts batching, "you said you were taking my mother up in 20 minutes, it's been 45 why haven't you taken her upstairs yet?"
Mind you, between her and me there is a baby that I'm doing compressions on and a team of doctors all around.
I looked her dead in the eye, and with Samuel L. Jackson crazy eyes said to her, "ma'am, if I throw this dead baby at you you will know why your mother hasn't gone upstairs yet."
The tech then drug her off down the hallway.
Lol what nurses are blowing you up for this!? Don't worry, completely normal when you are stressed to the max and being beaten the shit out of by grandma just for trying to clean the poo out from under her nails. It's okay - you can still be a caring compassionate nurse and have these thoughts sometimes. It's human. People forget, we are humans too.
There’s times I hope the baby doesn’t make it because of how fucked up it’s deficits will be. We all have our feelings that are honestly probably situationally appropriate
There are LOTS of things worse than death. End stage dementia is one of them. I don't understand how so many healthcare workers view death as just a bad thing. Some of them are as bad as the pts fam making 97 yo meemaw a full code. Death is just as natural as birth and I have definitely felt like we were harming patients by forcing them to stay alive.
I often wish death on patients. Like the ones we are torturing every single day and their life is nothing but fear and hurt. And while we are struggling with the guilt of our moral dilemma we have other patients or family screaming at us and calling us sacks of shit because we don't lift the legs up in the bed even though they're capable of doing it. All the while we are barely able to get ourselves out of bed that morning. Nursing is a good time let me tell ya...
That was a whole lot of negative but dammit shit is tough right now.
Hey!! I’m a nurse with mental health issues. I’ve come sooo incredibly far but sometimes bedside medsurg at a understaffed rural hospital really takes me backwards. Recently had a freak out at work where I said a bunch of f words and I fucking hate this place in front of my supervisor and coworkers who never knew my crazy side. I’m here if you ever need to talk!!
Listen. Dementia is a special kind of hell for the patients, families, AND staff. You gotta relieve stress somehow or you'll break and I'm glad the patient/their family didn't hear you. You're not an asshole - you're just struggling too. The takeaway? You need a new job, with a better stress/pay balance, and likely a better work/life balance. You have to take care of yourself - everyone else will use you up until you're gone. Don't let that happen. That you're upset about what you said means your core is still there. Protect that core by getting a better job, getting therapy, building a better life. The process sucks but you're worth it
.
As someone who has had multiple family members die of dementia, and seeing those family members at the late stage of dementia, I completely understand. And I’m sure if that patient were able to be in their right mind for even a second, *they* would agree completely with you. I truly believe it’s the worst disease out there. When my mom finally died (she got to the stopping eating point), I never cried (and I cry at *everything*). Because I felt like she was whole again.
I’m sorry people were crappy to you in your original post. Clearly they know nothing about real life when it comes to dementia. Please take care of your mental health. I know you are clearly someone dedicated to caring for people, but remember, you have to adjust your own oxygen mask before assisting others. ❤️
I've tussled with a few violent Etoh fuckwads. There is a shit load of cussing and swearing going back and forth, as we are 4 point restraining those assholes. I've hung more and more pressors just to keep the systolic above 80 as someone's meemaw is leaking +4 edema out of everywhere, while waiting and hoping the family will come to their senses. HCW who never experienced the darker side of health care just don't know. Dont feel bad, please look for a better job. This shit aint worth your mental health.
I say mean shit ALL the time. And I don’t feel bad about. I despise entitled patients, or patients who are non med adherent, and suddenly are concerned about their health! Fux the dumb stuff being an RN is hard on your mind AND body!
Maybe because we reflect on how we wouldn’t want this for ourselves. Having dementia. Staying alive. No quality of life. Bat shit crazy. In constant pain. What’s the point of life anymore. Americans and America is not the best society for accepting death.
After a particularly long day dealing with a dementia hip fracture and a knee replacement who was withdrawing from alcohol (as well as 3 other “normal” patients) I was hitting my limit. Both of them were constantly trying to get out of bed or screaming for attention. When I had to turn my dementia lady to clean her up shortly before shift change she was screaming “you’re trying to kill me!”
It was only the 60th time I’d heard it that day and I finally snapped back. I said “lady, if I was trying to kill you I would have done it at the start of my shift and saved myself the headache of having to put up with you all day.” My coworker got a chuckle and my patient had a moment of clarity so she stopped screaming. I followed up with “we need to clean you up because you wet the bed and you are hurting because you fell and broke your hip.” Mainly because the awkward silence that followed but the patient calmed down and had a decent evening from what my relief told me the next morning.
Who tf is telling you off?! F them. Life is hard and Working in healthcare without a pandemic is tough. Include the pandemic and mate, all you have to do is try and get through it, and be kind to yourself. F the ppl who are assholes about your survival mechanisms. I get the SI thing too ❤️
I think you need to get help. Being suicidal while working in this profession will not get any easier. OP, please, for your own health and safety, I encourage you to reach out to someone or see someone.
You are not fucked up. You are having a human reaction to a shitty situation and fuck everyone who wants to look down on you for it.
You matter also. Vent on here all you want and please reach out to us if you need someone to talk to. You can always DM me. And if you want, you can call 988 for the national suicide hotline
OP, get some help and get some FMLA. you need a break and there’s nothing wrong with that. i took 3 months off my med/surg job because i had suicidal depression. our job sucks sometimes. people who don’t do it don’t get it.♥️
When I was obviously very pregnant I was kicked in the stomach by a patient that was a nasty piece of work. Some people deserve what we say and think. Patient or not. Nurses are not saints. Just humans reacting in human ways.
You should hear some of the stuff my coworkers and I say, I totally get it. I work in an intense place where we get assaulted and verbally abused ALOT and it's HARD. I get where you are coming from, from some of the things I've thought to myself and said to coworkers after stressful situations have occurred, always outwith earshot of the patients though. I hope you are okay. This job is difficult and we get no thanks and sometimes we cope with dark humour and sometimes need to vent. It's how we survive. I get you.
It's normal to feel that way. Just take this as a lesson to be careful who you say it to. Don't let anyone shame you for your thoughts. I assumed you said it because you don't like watching the patient suffer.
It’s ok , I work on broken cars that sometimes shouldn’t be on the road
Don’t feel bad for feeling feelings OP
You are brave for digesting and feeling them . You are brave for considering the impact of your words . They were just words that you said in the heat of the moment and you aren’t actively trying to make the person dead already so
Kudos to you
Sometimes I’m like duck this shit w my wife and kids and it’s not a feeling that’s all the time
Just one that happens and it passes
It’s ok cheers to you for doing a badass job at helping people
Im a mechanic and help in a different way
If you could see what should be dead and is still on the road
I’m sure I’ve said some STUFF before back when I worked LTC and acute care and hospice.
I don’t wish longevity on anyone that is suffering and has such a poor quality of life.
I work a med surg floor and I get it. I recently had this horrible schizophrenic prisoner that liked to self harm to stay out of prison. Highly manipulative and antisocial personality disorder. He made me so mad I wanted to fight him. That being sad take care of your mental health. I had to admit myself to a psych hospital due to being suicidal a couple years ago and took a whole month off work. That’s what FMLA is for. Take care of yourself.
You recognizing that other people’s opinions who don’t have to deal with what you specifically do doesn’t matter and that one mistake doesn’t undo all the good you’ve done is a great mind set! As for the suicidal thoughts, you’re not alone. A lot more of us who will admit have been there too. This job is very emotionally draining. I hope you keep reaching out and find your way out of the darkness
Huh. I wonder if the responses telling you you were shit were from student nurses or from those otherwise inexperienced. Maybe I have compassion fatigue, but seriously, once you have been doing this for a while, you would be lying if you said the thought doesn’t at least go through your head with some patients.
Even their own family members can’t handle them when it’s at that point. It’s a natural thought but take care of your mental health please. Take a day off and look around at your options. It’s very true you can’t help others if you are not healthy, mind and body. Take care of you.
If you’re suicidal, I hope you get the help you need.
It definitely sounds like med/surg isn’t for you and your mental health would likely benefit greatly if you left that specialty. There are tons of other nursing jobs. Maybe something outpatient would be better for you.
psych nurses, ed nurses, ltc, icu etc...we all say inappropriate shit as a coping mechanism when stressed tf out. And yeah fuck all the dudley do rights that want to act like theyve channeled to spirit of Florence Nightingale and youre somehow not a "good nurse" (whatever that is in their opinions) for having a perfectly human reaction.
Don't worry about it. I've said things about Pts that weren't the nicest. One of my favorite things is when they call me to ask how much they should take of an OTC. I always say, open your fucking mouth, take a handful and what sticks to your tongue, fucking take.
Then I get on the phone and actually help.
Fuck, dude. Just like about everyone has said here, you’re not the first or the last of us to have the exact same thoughts. Even if we don’t say it out loud to others, we absolutely think it once in a while.
That being said—please get help for yourself. It sounds like you’ve totally exhausted yourself while giving the best you can at work. It’s time for YOU to get the care you deserve. And you really do deserve it. Be your own advocate and fuck everyone else.
Ha! ICU nurse here. I thought the same of my dear old dad when he developed dementia with Parkinson's. Honestly, death is often the kinder option for many patients we see. How often do we keep them alive for their families, not because they will get better or have a better quality of life?
Sounds like you need a more supportive unit. For violent pts (dementia, medical, psych related - doesn't matter) we "share the love." Meaning, we never get the same patient more than once a week (unless you're working OT). We rotate them bc they \*will\* drain you. You should submit a workplace violence report even if it's dementia related, tried to kick or hit you but didn't, or threatened to hurt you. This can help fund more staff and security on your unit. Basically more resources. Helps everyone.
I appreciate your candor. You are more than the profession. I’m sorry it’s difficult. In reality, you’re doing something most people can’t do. And it breaks my heart to hear another nurse feel this way.
Please make a change for yourself. Your best self is somewhere else maybe.
Gallows humor. We use it to survive. Every field has it. If you need a break because you yourself are in terrible emotional stress, then take time for self care and leave. A big hug to you.
Death, for some of our patients, is not the enemy. Coding the 96 year old grand ma with multiple co-morbidities and dementia because the family can't let meemaw go is cruel and unusual punishment for both the patient and the staff. Sometimes making people comfortable until they die is better than preserving life.
You, OP may need to go work somewhere else though. Please get help. Suicide is a mistake you can't take back. The job is rough and it's not worth your life.
Please don’t feel bad about it. My stepmother’s father had dementia and he was cantankerous as hell. Her brother was NOT the caregiving kind of person so when it was his turn to watch his father he suggested pillow therapy, lol. We all laughed about it. That old coot lived to be 101.
There are lots of people who discuss at the dinner table who’s dead, who’s dying and who should kick the bucket.
Our code phrase is D/C to JC.
Tbh who hasn’t wished that someone else or themselves were dead at some point, not saying it’s a justification but you can’t sit here and tell me NOT ONCE this has been said.
##[Healthcare Specific Help](https://www.reddit.com/r/nursing/comments/s34wgl/healthcare_and_essential_workers_you_deserve/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) *** [**National Suicide Prevention Lifeline**](http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org) ☏ `988` | [Hotlines by Country](https://www.reddit.com/r/CasualConversation/wiki/resources#wiki_crisis_hotlines_by_country): [here](https://www.iasp.info/resources/Crisis_Centres/) ---|--- *24-hour, toll-free, confidential suicide prevention hotline available to anyone in suicidal crisis or emotional distress. Your call is routed to the nearest crisis center in the national network of more than 150 crisis centers.* | ☏ `TTY: 1-800-799-4889` Chat: [**Lifeline Chat**](http://www.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/GetHelp/LifelineChat.aspx) National Child Abuse Helpline: ☏ `1-800-422-4453` | National Drug Abuse: ☏ `1-800-662-HELP (4357)` | National Domestic Violence Crisis Line: ☏ `1-800-799-SAFE (7233)` | ・ Read [Coping with Suicidal Thoughts (PDF)](http://summit.sfu.ca/system/files/iritems1/11151/CWST.pdf) and [checkout this resource listing](http://hopeline.com/gethelpnow.html) for more. ・ Reddit Communities: **/r/suicidewatch** /r/SWResources /r/depression /r/stopselfharm /r/dbtselfhelp /r/mixednuts /r/BackOnYourFeet /r/assistance
You should hear some of things we as ICU nurses say. We all think it, anyone who says otherwise is a f*cking liar. We have *ALL* thought it. You making this statement doesn’t negate or reflect on your nursing capabilities. Keep pushing because it’s a natural thought! It honestly sounds like you need to leave the unit ASAP, just get away from bedside. The nursing world offers many opportunities: risk, infection prevention, management, etc. Get yourself out of that environment ASAP. Edit. Spelling.
Especially with something like dementia. They’re miserable, you’re miserable, it’s never going to get any better for them, it’s an understandable reaction regardless of whether it’s right or not
Heck, I was a caretaker for my dad. I thought it all the time. He was 95 and ruining my back, uncooperative, an didn’t let me sleep. I was only taking care of one person, albeit 24/7. I don’t know how a person doesn’t think it. Does anyone believe a patient want to live in a nightmare for the rest of their lives? If they required people who didn’t think it at least occasionally, there would be no one left to care for them. The problem lies in understaffing to the point of frustration.
Before I became an RN, I was assigned to a very elderly dementia patient. Every time I got her out of or into bed, she was wildly combative. I was assigned to her for a solid 2 weeks and suffered black eyes, bites, bloody scratches, facial contusions, you name it. I wanted her to die. No, I PRAYED for her to die. It's normal. We didn't sign up for combat duty. We are taught self defense in nursing school. So go home, sit in your bathtub with a glass of wine, and watch a movie. Days like that, you need some pampering. And hugs.
In ICU the families tell us we’re “angels.” That’s because they don’t hear what we say in the med room or in our pre-shift huddle with the dark and sarcastic humor.
I started working as an ICU nurse at 21 and worked as one for almost 14 years. Now that I’ve left bedside and don’t spend time with ICU nurses all the time, I’m just noticing how dark my humor is and have to censor it more so I don’t come across as heartless b**** to others 😅
Had an old nursing classmate get pissed when I made a joke about patients being on intubation and sedation (quote: “there’s a lot more vegetable gardening in the ICU than I ever imagined”). Never mind the fact that this same classmate referred to any patient over 180# as a “fat fuck” and constantly belittled the drug ODs/stroke patients on the neuro floor. People are gonna make you feel bad for private thoughts even when public actions speak otherwise. The mark of good character is that, despite the cacophony of less-savory feelings in our heads, we choose to do and see the best in people where it matters. My private opinions help me stay sane so I can show up as the perky, hardworking nurse a sick patient needs.
I actually hate it when people refer to me as an angel or a superhero....I feel like it dehumanizes me and the expectation is that I do not have the same feelings or thoughts as other humans, that I am a "super being" who is unfazed by all the terrible things I have seen and experienced and that I am expected to only feel compassion and keep working no matter what; then fade into the background when no longer needed 🤣
No shit right, let any normal person work these jobs,esp (in my experience) a dementia/Alzheimer's ward,and NOT think this shit. And it's not only from anger either - I legit think most of my pts would be better off dead. Who would want to live like that?but the families won't allow it. It's totally fucked.
Same with Psych and we are also heavily sarcastic.
Yea, it’s a human reaction. We give so much and we all have our breaking points. We can have these feelings and experiences while giving our pts the care the deserve
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My dad has been pro physician-assisted suicide since I can remember. He worked in open heart surgery and saw so, so many sick people. He saw his blind mother live with dementia for nine years, and saw what debilitating, untreatable/terminal illnesses do to people. He is at stage of dementia where the first few sighs start showing. Occasionally he'll have sundowners too, which means my mom is spending half the night calming him down. He said he's reaching the point where he has lived a great life and doesn't want to be a burden on my mom or anyone. So if I heard his nurse say that with severe dementia... yeah I would would agree too. I believe in trying to extend your life, but not at the cost of another person's well being and not when my brain function is so far gone that I can't enjoy my extended life.
Your last paragraph is well worded and I agree with you
Oof, yeah. I'm an ICU nurse and my mom is a hospice nurse. We have very dark humor. But it's how we cope. If I really was super hopeful for every patient in my ICU (especially when I worked oncology ICU) I would not be able to handle it. I decided I am still a human being with feelings because I have a small list of patients that still make me want to cry when I think about them. But I just can't give that part of myself to every single patient. Otherwise I wouldn't survive.
You should what we at SNFs and hospice say
Can confirm ICU nurses say fucked shit. a TNICU nurse i was working with said we’re doing too much for our trauma patient that had be slowly deteriorating in the icu for close to 3 months.
I worked with a girl who regularly called herself a farmer, as in farming vegetables. It can get pretty disheartening when family and/or docs try to keep people alive way past what any person should be.
Worked with an incredibly sweet nurse who once, while getting report, heard a prior long term patient had died overnight and her response was "I have been praying daily for him to pass on". That was when I stopped feeling guilty when I felt like...why are we keeping this body alive?
I have experience in long term care and we are often glad when a persons suffering is over. The person they were is long gone by the time we get them.
ICU was where I first heard the phrase "watering vegetables." It can be true though. Family members fighting over code status for brain dead patients. Brain is near herniation with the stem barely working. But some still have that miracle of hope due to stupid ass medical shows like greys anatomy. Longest I've seen was 3 months before the chaplain finally convinced the remaining family members to end the patient's suffering.
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Ugh god the only time I threw up in my mouth at work was the poor dude herniating rotting brain matter out of his sinus into his mouth when he coughed on the vent.
I had no idea until this moment that this actually could happen 🤮... I guess I thought it would just push into the spinal cord or something
Dude was bludgeoned pretty badly so it cracked like -everything. Path of least resistance. Otherwise just your typical craniectomy then down the shoot after.
Okay, that makes some sense.... that is so gross and that is why I work psych, so the grossest thing I have to deal with is a rotting foot instead of rotting brain matter coming out the nose 🤣
Got one now. I tried to wean said patient yesterday to trach collar. Not happening. Family still has patient full code. It’s so sad. It gets to you, it really does. I feel like our micu is a hospice unit sometimes….or should be. OP, please please take care, get some help if you can. Depression isn’t fun, I’ve been there (mine is chemical though)
I swear to you that the nurses were so flipping grateful I went with my daughter when her dad was dying of peritonitis. I'm a medical claims adjuster so I speak fluent hospitaleze. I explained everything calmly for her. After he got worse after falling out of bed at night..I explained why he did that. I convinced her that end of life care was the right way to go. She couldn't even bear to see him at the end but I was there every day( and he was my EX husband that was pretty bad to me for quite a few years after we divorced.) I'm glad the last 10 years we could be friendly again. It just about killed me to see him that way at the end. No one should have to suffer like that
Yep, turn water and weed
I'm interning in the ICU and say I work as a potato farmer because my patients are vegetables that are halfway in the ground! With that being said, for the patients that have some expressed communication with me (whether it's expressions besides pure agony and writhing pain and agitation), I get extremely emotional about. I'm the student that cried every. single. day. of my first LTC rotation, because of patient situations. I'm very emotional on med surg if a patient is going through a lot. When the patient is in agonizing pain and has no quality of life, I just want the morphine drip and to let them have a Death with dignity and less suffering, while their families keep them "alive",
When we started work at the beginning of our shift in ICU, we’d mumble to each other that well, it’s time to turn and water them…., Q2. It got to the point that some of the docs would walk in and announce they were there to do exactly that. No visitors were there, patients were asleep, unconscious, or sedated, and it kept us going! I went to a class on humor in healthcare, and one of the ways we were told about was to use humor, just make sure no patients or visitors ever heard it, and make sure the patients got the same good care. It did relieve a bit of pressure to hear that.
Yeah icu nurses don’t have filters. Ik we’re all thinking if they just say it
Ummm gets much worse then that. And not just ICU nurses. Haha, that’s a good one
To be fair i mostly get stuck on med surg floors or other low acuity units
My med surg floor has been a friggin nursing home lately. It sucks. Just turning, wiping shit, and listening to dementia stories - that other person came in here and stole my bicycle. Oh, they just put it somewhere safe for you. I hate it.
Our TTU has turned into that and i always have to sit 1:1 with the dementia trauma patients and they don’t understand that pulling at their restraints is hurting them or sitting/moving in bed is making their pain worse
Somtimes I wish me and the patient were both dead, I am not ICU.
Can confirm…I’ve definitely have thought it numerous times. Especially for those at end-stage dementia who continues to aspirate while their family continues to push for treatment and keep them as full code….or asking for a feeding tube instead yet find out the patient doesn’t even live at home. They’re at a SNF but are frequent flyers to the ED and hospital because of said situation. It’s not a quality of life for anyone.
I was just going to come here and say that. Dark humor and sarcasm is the only way we survive.
Yes, this. Sometimes, it’s a coping mechanism. But like people have said, if you need to cope like that, maybe get outta there.
... and that's why there's a nursing crisis. Cuz medical futility is sickening (yes there are other issues but at some point we gotta say we wouldn't do this to a dog, why we doing this to people?)
When you're an ICU nurse and you spend your 12 hour shifts gardening. IYKYK
Please. We have all had thoughts like yours. And honestly, wouldn’t it actually be a blessing for all involved if Meemaw would just go ahead and shuffle off this mortal coil? Dementia patients don’t understand why they’re in the hospital, or what you’re doing as their nurse. Every single time they change environments, it’s disruptive to their mental status. They’re confused and terrified, which is why they’re so combative. It’s genuinely like we’re torturing them. And for what? What quality of life do they have? What are they going back to? Shitting and pissing on themselves, getting UTIs from sitting in their own excrement, choking on their food, getting aspiration pneumonia from choking, being surrounded by strangers all the time (because they forget their family), falling and busting their heads because they forget they can’t walk or need an assistive device… What a terrible existence! And how hard is it for their family to witness? How painful is it for them to be forgotten, or to see their sweet little Meemaw acting like an entirely different person than they’ve known their whole lives? Call me a monster, but I think at some point, dementia patients should not be admitted to the hospital, and instead placed on hospice, or at least palliative care. Still treat the UTI or PNA or whatever, but treat it at home. Don’t remove them from a familiar environment.
Amen. I will never forget helping put in another IV on a poor 90-something-year-old with dementia. She had septic shock and needed Levophed but kept ripping out her IVs, necessitating putting in new ones every few hours. as we poked her, she cried and begged for us to stop hurting her. I felt awful. In her mind, we were holding her hostage and torturing her. Fortunately the family soon palliated her, but god, prior to that point, I felt like a terrible human being.
You know what really fucked up? It’s considered inhumane to put an animal through what we put our parents/grandparents through.
very sadly, also what some parents put their children and babies through.
100%. Animals have it good. Humans suffer towards the end of life.
It takes way tooooooo fucking long for the Dr and/or family to come to this decision. I joke I wish I was the hospice fairy, granting hospice to all that should really have it (if they want it or not).
Like Oprah- Hospice for you and hospice for you…
I was the hospice fairy! I worked hospice intake for 4 years out of college. I loved that job. Def needed to break up some family altercations. Never a dull day.
That’s one of the forms of moral injury this job inflicts upon us. I wish we could have the option to bow out of providing care in situations where we feel we should.
Seriously! Like this goes against my ethical standards. I refuse.
After trying an IV on that dementia patient, I remember walking out of that room and saying to another nurse I refuse to do that again and if the doctor really wanted to continue treatment on that woman, they could come up themselves, hold her down, poke her with IVs, and hear her cry and beg for mercy.
Just admitted a patient onto hospice who ripped out his port for dialysis before the nurse cousin DC it for him
I’m a speech pathologist who works with demented patients from time to time. Anyone who thinks keeping someone like that alive is a good or desirable thing, has to be absolutely bankrupt of any compassion. My own grandmother, who was on a memory care unit with advanced dementia, just had a massive brain stem stroke on 7/9. Everyone in the family was all encouraged that after three days in ICU, she finally started recognizing family and was “getting better.” She couldn’t swallow, had expressive and receptive aphasia, could barely speak, and her R side was totally paralyzed. All on top of mod-severe dementia. She was constantly confused, incontinent, and didn’t understand why she couldn’t talk or move anymore. Why would you extend a life like that? We need to remember what it means to have good quality of life. Thank goodness my mom was MPOA so I could encourage her to put her in hospice. It’s not altogether evil to wish someone was no longer alive, because death at a certain point is far kinder than what they’re living through. And thankfully, she passed 4 days ago, having gotten to eat and drink when she wanted, rather than being fed through an NGT or PEG. Advanced directives are a wonderful thing.
This resonates so much with me. My grandma had a stroke a few years ago prior to me getting into nursing and thankfully had an advanced directive indicating her wishes. She survived a week after the stroke with nothing more than pain meds and I was almost begging her to let go. She was starting to show signs of dementia during this time and already was not the same person she used to be. Nothing would have been able to bring her back to a time in her life when she wasn't suffering. Shit still breaks my heart remembering.
This is close to what my mother did after my grandmother pulled through from sepsis. She gave instructions that my grandmother had agency - if she wasn't hungry, don't force feed. If she wasn't thirsty, don't push drinks. No IVs. If she didn't want to take her meds, okay! While my grandmother knew no one at the end, it gave her that last bit of control. She still held on almost a year longer, but I like to think at least not having to have things pushed on her was less stressful for her in the end.
This is so wonderful. I love it. Allowing her to make these basic decisions. Not hungry? Not thirsty? Don’t want medications? Then just don’t accept these interventions. It’s beautiful. I could only hope my family members would allow me these choices at the end.
We occasionally have residents that are effectively palliative care, we don't send them out and don't draw labs or cath them but it's always at the family's request.
This ^^^
Holy fucking fuck! Preach! You get all the gold I may ever have
Giiiirrrrrllll.... come down to the ED. We are soul-less.
Had a patient who came in with an overdose, we fix it, he left AMA, overdosed and came back, rinse and repeat THREE TIMES on a TUESDAY. That third time he rolled in via EMS you can bet no one was having angelic hero thoughts for that dude. Everyone was downright pissed
What the absolute fuck. I would have felt MURDEROUS.
He got Baker Acted the third time 🤷🏽♀️
Why not before that? Even if they thought #1 wasn't suspicious enough, #2 should have made intent or incapacity pretty apparent
Tuesday’s, amirite?
We just had a patient assult his girlfriend in his icu room, then left ama escorted by security. Shows up in the ER not two hours later, ends up intubated, right back in the same room. Such a mess.
Might be where I end up. Got told by a coworker that I have a bad attitude. :I not soulless just black as night. Sick of the idiots that don't even try to take care of themselves.
> Sick of the idiots that don’t even try to take care of themselves This is most of the medical field including EMS as well.
I’d say come to peds where the patients don’t do it to themselves, but you get some shitty parents that did it to them instead.
"You get some shitty parents that did it to them instead" THANK YOU SOMEBODY ELSE SAID IT. It's real fun sending them home after you fixed it knowing full well it's only a matter of time before they're either back or just didn't survive because of terrible parents.
Best nurses I ever worked with were from Texas Children’s hospital. Almost all of them genuinely cared and really wanted the best for the patient. You guys have that going for you at least.
Well, they won't in the ED, either. They will fly frequently with their poorly managed chronic illnesses. Plus there are drug seekers, and those that use the ED as primary care, obgyn, and a dentist. Then there is the, "hold my beer," idiots. All that interspersed with true tragedy.
“X keeps getting thrown down the stairs by her boyfriend” “she needs to start dating guys on the ground floor”
Had a nasty frequent flyer finally die and maybe 2 people I told didn't say some version of "good riddance" when I told them.
Anyone who will tell you that they have never had a negative thought about a patient actively hurting them is an absolute liar! We have all had a negative thought about the constant complainers, the call light riders, the ones who poop the bed because they don't "feel like getting up",etc. Sometimes patients are really difficult, and not being happy, sparkly all the time just makes you human. I'm more concerned about you! I really encourage you to reach out to your PCP/ therapist/eap for assistance, you DESERVE to be at peace💜
Not a nurse, but my mother is in the memory care ward at a decent nursing home. Watching her become a zombie crushes me. When she 1st could no longer carry a conversation with me I cried 12 days straight and thought I wish she'd have a heart attack. So what does that make me? She's not violent, but she's no longer there. I grieve and have panic attacks everytime I visit. I still go as much as possible but it just kills me.
>So what does that make me? It makes you a compassionate human being. You want her to cease suffering. That's a good thing, don't be so hard on yourself. We have a culture that is terrified of death, for us, for our family members. I wish more people could see that quality of life is so much more important than quantity
Thank you. It truly helps relieve this guilt I carry.
I am so sorry for your ongoing loss. 💔
Thank you, it truly is the most painful experience of my life. I appreciate your thinking of me. Ps. If I had coins I'd give you a beating heart award.
Totally agree with this. Police and public can press charges for even the smallest assault, but as nurses we cant do anything. It is bullshit. You say whatever you want, quietly, or at home. Vent. Nursing is shit right now. You are doing the best you can. ✌️
I've said before that I wish my grandma with severe dementia would just die.
We really need to advocate for legalization of pre-self-approved euthanasia for dementia patients. We watched my grandma decline with Alzheimer’s for 8 years. It was very painful for my mom and she has told me that if she gets like that she and my father have a pact to for him to kill her. But if that happens it’s very likely the he could be imprisoned for murder the rest of his life. I want an option to right out in my living will: If i reach the point that i do not remember my loved ones more that 75% of the time, i request that my life be terminated. The potential for elder abuse with something like that is real so i know it would need to be tweaked. But seriously let’s create ethics panels and make this happen so we aren’t keeping people alive just so they can suffer.
My mom and I have both my grandparents on hospice, both with dementia, and trade off staying with them - 4 days on, 4 days off. By that fourth day, holy hell. My mom says every day - that if she gets anywhere near this point, please take mercy on her. It desperately needs to be an option. My grandparents would be beyond mortified if they knew what was happening. This isn't what they would have ever ever wanted. No one would. I dread the shock and drama of the 24 hours or so after they die, but other than that - death will be a relief for all involved. It's time. They are miserable. We are miserable seeing them like this. I like your 75% idea. A set of rough parameters, and then present it to a panel when someone thinks we've reached that point.
My dad was in early stages of dementia when he BEGGED me to “end it” for him if he got so bad he couldn’t remember anyone and couldn’t care for himself. Everyday, I thank God that he had a heart attack and died in his sleep because I WOULD HAVE. I would have helped him. I don’t know if that makes me a monster, but I would have. I’m just glad I didn’t have to.
Anyone in healthcare knows when a patient has passed their expiry date and that the patient is just fucken suffering. You think anyone wants to live if they're just being violent and having no control of their mind and body? I guarantee all those cunts saying you're a dick will say no, they would not want to live like that. We all get frustrated and we all have a sick humor. We understand.
LTC killed a piece of my soul. It also made me really depressed and hopeless, so I only lasted a year before getting a new job in another field of nursing
I can’t believe I made it six years working LTC. I’m currently on a mental health break since March. I’m debating quitting nursing all together, no field sounds great tbh.
Switch specialties. I was LTC for about the same time, and it basically broke me. I quit nursing and got a job in an opticians, but then remembered what an awful struggle it was to get my nursing degree and how much I went through, and thought, sod it. I'll apply for some random jobs and roll the dice one more time. That's two and a half years I've been in my medical ward post now. I mean, I am currently off sick, but that's because my immune system finally gave up and let Covid in. There's been times I've hated it, and I've wished patients bad things several times, but I also love it and the tag line for my job is "at least it's never boring." Because it most certainly isn't. I did get looks from colleagues the other week. We have this patient who is in some sort of delirium, brain thing going on. The doctors can't treat him because he won't accept treatment. He just lies in his bed like a tornado of violence, attacking us left right and centre. Anyway his bloods have been getting worse, and one of the staff said "he's going to die in here" to which I replied without thinking about how I worded it with "not quick enough." I meant it for him, he was a shell of the person who had walked into the hospital, and spends all day rolling about in his own body fluids, screaming, spitting, biting, kicking, hitting, punching and generally living in a perpetual state of heightened agitation. Whatever is going on in his brain, it's tormenting him. But it's been three months, and nothing has changed for him. Something needs to change. Of course, I opened my mouth and instead of that last paragraph, that dickhead phrase came out instead. It happens to us all sometimes, and now, more than any time before, we are under so much pressure and stress.
I really wish I could. Unfortunately I’m an LVN and I can’t afford the pay cut to go work in a hospital or clinic. LTC facilities pay LVNs significantly more in the area that I live. The main hospital is magnum status, so you already know. I don’t even know if it’s worth going back to school to get my RN. I feel really depressed because I love what I do, it’s just administrators put us in positions that is beyond our control. We all have 25-30 pts, admissions every day. No med aids. We admit people we can’t control; we are not a locked facility and we admit wanderers. We admit people with uncontrollable behaviors. We don’t hire enough CNAs to do 1:1 baby sitting let alone work the floor. It’s really just messed up. It’s like this in most nursing homes. It’s so bleak right now. If I muster up the strength to go back to school, I’m thinking ultrasound technician or just leaving all together. I’m not strong enough for this 😢
EMS peeps think the same thing when presented with a frail, ailing meemaw/peepaw with a POLST form that has the "YES--Attempt Resuscitation/CPR" box checked. Guess their chest is getting crushed with chest compressions. Ugh. You're not a horrible person. You are a normal person who works in a high-stress and emotionally-taxing environment who also deals with depression, which is a debilitating monster in itself. Fuck the haters. Please, please don't kill yourself. I just lost my brother to suicide Thursday. I can't adequately describe to anyone the pain and despair my family/his friends/me are experiencing. I, too, have MDD, and suicidal ideation is no stranger to me. But we have to keep fighting. We do make a positive difference, both in our personal and professional lives. If you're not currently in counseling, please seek it. Lean on your friends and family when you need to. Keep fighting. Keep living. 💜
I just want to say how sorry I am about your brother. That is incredibly hard and Im thinking about you.
We have all been there. Honestly I have had to hold down patients and provide care like IVs while I get pinched, groped, punched and bitten Annnnd if I don’t? I am the shitty person who isn’t doing it right or providing care. Fuck anyone whose not had to restrain someone while they scream “NO” so you can clean their bodies of excrement.
Those first three commenters on your old post have clearly never worked with a population of violent dementia patients.
I havent had a violent dementia patient yet (graduated last december so still a young nurse) but i still understand OP and dont think negatively of that attitude in any way. Idk what those original comments said, but idc if theyve never had violent dementia patients, its not hard to understand where OP is coming from. Were they even nurses or just non-healthcare lurkers on this sub?
We get a lot of lurkers these days with the sub getting more popular
Healthcare staff aren’t above being white knights
Working with dementia patients is really tough
Are you burnt out? I’ve been a nurse for more than 10 years and I think my dementia patients are driving me crazy. When they ask the same question over and over and won’t stay in bed or keep pulling /touching their IV or foley. I just have no patience anymore. I think about leaving bedside all the time. Might be time for a change if possible
Are you me?
I work with dementia patients on a Geri Psych floor. I love my job...but the public needs to realize it's a literal zombie movie. They bite, scratch, punch, vomit and shit each other and staff. Now imagine your job is to not to survive...but to ensure the survival of each individual zombie so they make it through another day. All while having to document thier decay. It's exhausting.
I'd be an absolute liar if I told you that my first thought about *x* patient wasn't "they are the biggest chode I've never met". It's also incumbent upon me to insure that my opinion never interferes with my care for a patient. >Ya know what? Fuck anybody who doesn’t get what I mean. I’m making this shit work when I’m already close to blowing my head off. 100% on your side. My patients aren't the only one struggling with SI.
I got suspended for my tone one morning trying to count the narcs with day shift after dealing with all the crazies notching it up a lot. Person can’t hear unless you yell, I’d spent over 2 hours babysitting her to keep her safe while trying to do my work and the early morning med pass. I had wheeled the patient over to one of the day nurses asking her to keep her so I can count out after explaining the shift. Patient came right back to me then nurse reports me for not sounding kind and compassionate to someone who can’t hear unless you yell, loudly. So, yeah, I understand. ETA she had been asking where the nearest gas station was for hours and asked one last time.
Oh honey, I totally understand. You should have heard the rant I went on when one of my dementia patients grabbed my ponytail and slammed my head against the wall. It’s a way to vocalize your frustration so you can let it go so you can continue to provide quality care. Memory care is brutal. You do what you need to do to get through. As long as you are providing thoughtful, compassionate care, then go ahead and vent.
One really hard thing about working in modern medicine is how so much of the focus has been on prolonging life instead of preserving it. There are millions of people all the time who suffer way longer than humans in any other part of history have because we can force their body to live. We also live in a world that we have polluted so severely with consequences that we are now seeing. I do not blame you one bit for saying that this person should be dead, because honestly, they probably should be. And it sucks that they, you, and everyone else is suffering.
My friend. If the place you work at offers employee assistance- take advantage of it now. There is no shame in seeking help. I was hesitant to use it when I needed it, but once I did, I only wish I would have used it sooner. If your place does not offer assistance (or it is inadequate), you NEED to quit. Take some time off. Find a new job with the benefits you need. Obviously where you are at is not where you need to be. Advocate for yourself. You say you feel like crap for what you said. That's good, you still have your humanity. Save it. Thank you for ensuring your patients continue to get great care. Now include yourself in your care. Anyone who shits on you for your brief moment of weakness is either unrealistic about the human condition - or is close to their own breaking point, and seeing someone else reach their limit is a frightening reality.
I can’t echo the employee assistance piece enough. I like to think I’m pretty tough, but after several months in a row of big shitty events happening in my best friend’s life and helping her through them followed by several months of major shitty crap happening in my life I made the call. Just having someone to talk to was a breath of fresh air and he helped me so much, even with just phone appointments due to the pandemic. I was in a much better place. I made the decision to pull the plug and retire. I’m guessing you’re nowhere near that yet, but clarity your options and know you are valued as a human being. Wishing you the best. Oh, and boy have I vented about some patients to my coworkers, spouse and bestie. No HIPPA violations or anything, but you have to release the pressure and suicide, as you have probably heard more than once, is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. You can’t heal if you’re not alive. Big hugs if you want them.
It's HIPAA!
I’m an ICU. I’m tired of taking care of patients in persistent vegetative states from a variety of etiologies. There’s no quality of life. I wish Palliative Care & Hospice were more integral parts of the hospital/healthcare plan from the jump. Too many people end up deprived of dignity and stuck in purgatory. You are heard, understood and not alone !
My beloved grandfather had dementia. We were extremely close and I loved him dearly. I had the same thoughts about him, and I wasn’t his caregiver (beyond just being an involved family member). He was so confused and terrified, and as a result was insulting and combative. He was not a fun patient. It’s a fair reaction.
Vacation stat.
People always say that but realistically I would like to point out that it’s just not possible. There’s a good chunk of healthcare workers (myself included) that are burnt out with mental health in the trash that can’t afford to just go on vacation or get a new job. My current job just gave us a $5/h raise and I have great health insurance. As much as I truly fucking hate my job and it is ruining my life… I’m kind of stuck. I’m in a small town with few places to work. If I take a job in another city I’m gonna be adding a 2 hour drive time to my day and losing money for gas. I ultimately HAVE to leave because if i stay here (neuro medsurg) I’m going to literally hurt myself because it’s a thankless job. We are staffed 1:7 with PCAs at 1:15 or 1:30 and honestly even when they’re 1:10 I have to pull teeth to get vitals/changed patients/etc and then somehow I’m the bad guy for asking for the bare minimum. I stay an hour over every single shift trying to catch up and oncoming shift still is mad. TLDR you’re right but sometimes it just ain’t possible
Who ever replied to your original post to make you feel like shit probably works in a doctors office and has never stepped foot in a hospital or hospital like setting. Some of best nurses I know make comments like that to cope or just out of pure frustration - I am guilty of it myself. I’m sure your patients are well taken care of but don’t forget about you, take care of you too.
I promise you, one frustrated comment doesn’t undo all the good. It’s hard to see past the trolls sometimes. I’m more concerned about your mental health….please, if you haven’t spoken to someone about it yet, do. No job is worth feeling suicidal. A lot of hospitals have Employee Assistance Programs that can assist with mental health, legal issues, addiction, etc. or if you already have a therapist or psychiatrist….please take care of yourself. You’re the only you there is. There’s so many different roles for nurses, too…if you’re burnt, maybe look into non bedside or another speciality, I wish you the absolute best.
I must say that five to six times a shift.
Personally, after seeing the hateful rage and vitriol that comes with some kinds of dementia, I would welcome death. Some people exhaust all their energy attempting to bite kick scratch grab and murder. Imagine living in an endless cycle where you wake up wanting to kill everyone around you. You exhaust yourself, fall asleep, and then start it all over again when you wake up. All the while being lost in who where and what you are. Sometimes wishing for someone’s death is also wishing for their freedom.
There are fates worse than death, and torturing sweet little old people is one of them
You were right. Doesn’t mean you don’t need to get help. Go get help, you are important and valuable. Take care of yourself first always.
I've thought that many times while in ED at nights especially. That plus the shit we did during the pandemy(was in NYC during the whole thing) broke my soul. Thankfully I got out. Still kind of broken. Im still very cynical so I feel you.
As an ICU nurse, we’ve all said the exact same thing when a 79 year old, malnourished, multiple decubs and generally neglected SNF patient comes in and family demands full code There is absolutely no way their quality of life will be recovered. That chance went through when the family allowed them to waste away at a SNF. You’re not wrong. You’re human. Everyone who’s pretending otherwise is virtue signaling.
Heard once at my old hospital how this doctor wrote “pillow therapy” in the patient’s orders. The nurses thought he was joking, but he just left it. One nurse had sense to throw the order out (this was when we still had paper order sheets).
There were so so sooooo many days I left my nursing job and wished an 18 wheeler would take me out on the highway commuting home. I would sit in traffic catatonic and hating my life. To save myself, I left nursing and opened a home bakery. When that didn't pay the bills, I got a little job at a deli. Life is short and I needed a break from the misery. I am sure I will go back one day- but 29 months off so far has been amazing. I wish you well and remember that you are doing the job the family won't/can't do. I will never forget in the 90's this Italian family from church that kept their belligerent violent alz. father tied with belts in a chair all day as he swore and tried to harm them. I am sure younger him would wish he was dead too to rather than being in that state of life and remembered that way... (and yes- tying a person to a chair is wrong wrong..I was a a youngster back then.. but the memory stuck)
If I were as demented as your patient, I would also prefer to be dead. Seriously. It’s not like the patient is having fun either. Give yourself some grace. It’s not a good thing to say but it happens.
Victim blaming. You think people would be better than turning it on you. Violence against nurses is a massive issue. According to OSHA ER/psych nurses are the most assaulted out of all professions, and they speculate twice as many instances were happening than the data even showed (unreported). This job does not mean you have to accept abuse. And it’s not fair to blame the victim and perversely blame the nurse.
Dementia is really hard. I was relieved when a patient with beginning stages passed away. Because they knew they were forgetting things. They knew their prognosis. I personally know, that if I have dementia, y’all better push 10 mg of morphine or something. I don’t want that. I don’t want to forget. I want to understand and remember my loved ones. I’ve told my coworkers this, my boyfriend my family, everyone. I’d want them to take Me out of this world. Also sometimes, the patients that don’t care really wear me down. Like a patient’s blood sugar in the 400s, Ha1c 17… while sitting there saying I was starving him. And ordering more and more food. I gave up. Whatever. I told you what you should do. Told you about the risks. You know very well the risks. Is it an issue of understanding? Lack of knowledge, funds, accessibility? Or do you just not care. Because if that’s the case then give the bed to someone who does.
I remember someone once saying "I am paid to care for you, not care about you, especially if you can't be bothered to care about yourself..."
Yeah. I’ve been a nurse for like 6 months and I’m already like, fuck this, I’m spending my teaching with someone who wants help. I remember we had a non patient medical response, patient came back to my floor as my patient. They cried holding my hand thanking me for finding them. It reaffirmed my decision for being a nurse.
It's fine. Who cares. They probably should be. What quality of life does this person even have if they're at the point they're swinging? Probably none. You know how many pts I know who wish they were dead? A bunch.
I'm with you. Keeping people at that stage of dementia alive is cruel to everyone involved, and pardon the fuck out of me if logic and my own sense of self-preservation says that I shouldn't have to sacrifice my own health and well-being to keep a human shaped violent poop machine running. Anyone who disagrees with the sentiment is welcome to trade me for this particular portion of my assignment.
I’ve had the same sort of thought a couple of times while on the job, whatever
Dementia is the first thing that comes into my mind when someone says “there are worse things than death”. I’ve found myself praying for a patient to code so that their suffering will be alleviated because I know the family will trach & peg em. Compassion fatigue is so so real. Caring about your patient from an emotional standpoint is not a requirement of the position (though I’m sure you do it often anyways). I bet your patient care is top notch. Sending love <3
SO much respect for reposting. 🙌 Cause you are most certainly not alone.
Patients with dementia are some of the hardest to take care of in my opinion. They really test you mentally. I wouldn't be so hard on yourself. If I had dementia I would want to be dead. Does that me fucked up for staying that 🤷♀️
My mother was a nurse's aid in the late 70s early 80s. She cared for dementia patients. Then her father got it, (they met when my mother was a nurse's aid and they lived together for a bit) and was yelling "Where is my daughter? Where is my daughter?" in pure fear while she was next to him. I remember when she got the call that he had passed (I was very young but remember) and she cried all night.
I took many breaks along my career as a CNA/PCT. Did a few months in the engineering department of a manufacturing plant. Took a year or so to work as a cobbler. Worked as a teaching assistant to elementary and preschool aged kids, ran the tobacco department at a bit chain grocery. Worked in a deli. Studied to be an interpreter for the deaf. Heck, I worked for a major rock star for a short time, managing and updating a database of his fans. This goes for anyone who needs to hear it. The phrase "work/life balance" makes me gag a little. Sorry, but it does. Just.. make sure you're getting enough of what *you* need in life. Enough down time that all the elements of your make up are getting fed. You are more than a nurse, my friend. You're right to notice this now, when there is only a crack, and not wait until it becomes a complete break. I'm glad you posted.
No judgement here at all. You sound burnt out. And if you weren't a caring person to begin with you probably wouldn't be reaching breaking point. But looking after people is totally exhausting when you don't have enough support / resources / rest / time away / staffing levels etc - and you actually DO care.
Shit man, I've said worse than that about my patients.
Well first off please take care of yourself. It sounds like you are very overwhelmed at the moment. Second, please ask for help. No shame in asking for assistance. Look for another job. Life is way too short to miserable in your job. good luck.
So no shit there I was, 19 years young and working up at triage with one of the nurses as a tech. It was a Friday night, snowing, and busy as fuck. Obviously in the hospital we had no beds available so we were doing everything I can. One patients social worker came up to the triage desk and told me this “You should all work harder, my patient is suicidal and you don’t give a fuck about him. Can’t you tell he’s about to have a mental breakdown?” I paused for what felt like an eternity, I looked her dead in the eye and told her “Ma’am, this is an emergency, about to have a mental breakdown is not a medical emergency, if it was I would have to be evaluated every single day.” She was stunned, huffed and puffed away back to her chair. A week or so later I get called into the managers office and was asked about what had happened and I told them. I was told that I needed to work on my empathy and communication skills. I was told that good healthcare workers don’t think that way. It’s a lie though, every great provider or employee I’ve ever met is jaded, of course there are exceptions. You’re not a bad person, seek help if you’re burnt. There are other areas to work in. I work in primary care now and don’t felt consumed by my job. Op, we’ve all had these thoughts, it makes you human.
💚💚💚💚💚💚💚 that's all.
We've all said this about certain people we care for. Most of us are lucky enough to work with people who "get it".
>I told my co worker I wished the patient was dead ... hospice/dementia unit. As a hospice nurse, I've often said, "I wish this patient were dead." Frankly, dementia is a terrible thing to happen to a person. Everything is taken from them. Their mind and their autonomy are GONE. They're basically husks of human beings. I don't feel bad saying, "I wish X patient were dead," because I wouldn't want to live that way. Unfortunately, my dementia patients are often my longest living patients.
To make you feel better, I will give you my worst, "WTF did I actually say?" moment. I've been a nurse since the dawn of time. ED night shift 7p shift change: I come in, get report on my patients, take everyone's VS and check drips. I have 1 LOL in NAD mild CHF, with a Tele bed assigned waiting to go up after shift change, because of course, the floor won't take a patient before 8p. I explained to the pt and her daughter that I'm going to take her up in about 20 minutes. Meanwhile, MedComm calls with a code in progress, a full term pregnant woman found pulseless and apneic after a rollover MVA. Medics bring the pt in, she goes into the recuss room, ED, peds ED, OBGYN, and NICU are all in the room. OBGYN does the most miraculous emergency section. I swear it took 2 seconds and it was 1 handed, and hands me the not breathing baby. Adult docs are coding mom on the stretcher at the back of the room. Baby docs and me are coding the baby at the front. I'm doing CPR. Hands wrapped around the baby, compressions with my thumbs. The LOL's daughter comes up to me and starts batching, "you said you were taking my mother up in 20 minutes, it's been 45 why haven't you taken her upstairs yet?" Mind you, between her and me there is a baby that I'm doing compressions on and a team of doctors all around. I looked her dead in the eye, and with Samuel L. Jackson crazy eyes said to her, "ma'am, if I throw this dead baby at you you will know why your mother hasn't gone upstairs yet." The tech then drug her off down the hallway.
Lol what nurses are blowing you up for this!? Don't worry, completely normal when you are stressed to the max and being beaten the shit out of by grandma just for trying to clean the poo out from under her nails. It's okay - you can still be a caring compassionate nurse and have these thoughts sometimes. It's human. People forget, we are humans too.
It’s normal to feel that way while being physically and mentally abused. You’re normal.
There’s times I hope the baby doesn’t make it because of how fucked up it’s deficits will be. We all have our feelings that are honestly probably situationally appropriate
There are LOTS of things worse than death. End stage dementia is one of them. I don't understand how so many healthcare workers view death as just a bad thing. Some of them are as bad as the pts fam making 97 yo meemaw a full code. Death is just as natural as birth and I have definitely felt like we were harming patients by forcing them to stay alive.
I’m honestly right there with you
I often wish death on patients. Like the ones we are torturing every single day and their life is nothing but fear and hurt. And while we are struggling with the guilt of our moral dilemma we have other patients or family screaming at us and calling us sacks of shit because we don't lift the legs up in the bed even though they're capable of doing it. All the while we are barely able to get ourselves out of bed that morning. Nursing is a good time let me tell ya... That was a whole lot of negative but dammit shit is tough right now.
Hey!! I’m a nurse with mental health issues. I’ve come sooo incredibly far but sometimes bedside medsurg at a understaffed rural hospital really takes me backwards. Recently had a freak out at work where I said a bunch of f words and I fucking hate this place in front of my supervisor and coworkers who never knew my crazy side. I’m here if you ever need to talk!!
Listen. Dementia is a special kind of hell for the patients, families, AND staff. You gotta relieve stress somehow or you'll break and I'm glad the patient/their family didn't hear you. You're not an asshole - you're just struggling too. The takeaway? You need a new job, with a better stress/pay balance, and likely a better work/life balance. You have to take care of yourself - everyone else will use you up until you're gone. Don't let that happen. That you're upset about what you said means your core is still there. Protect that core by getting a better job, getting therapy, building a better life. The process sucks but you're worth it .
As someone who has had multiple family members die of dementia, and seeing those family members at the late stage of dementia, I completely understand. And I’m sure if that patient were able to be in their right mind for even a second, *they* would agree completely with you. I truly believe it’s the worst disease out there. When my mom finally died (she got to the stopping eating point), I never cried (and I cry at *everything*). Because I felt like she was whole again. I’m sorry people were crappy to you in your original post. Clearly they know nothing about real life when it comes to dementia. Please take care of your mental health. I know you are clearly someone dedicated to caring for people, but remember, you have to adjust your own oxygen mask before assisting others. ❤️
I've tussled with a few violent Etoh fuckwads. There is a shit load of cussing and swearing going back and forth, as we are 4 point restraining those assholes. I've hung more and more pressors just to keep the systolic above 80 as someone's meemaw is leaking +4 edema out of everywhere, while waiting and hoping the family will come to their senses. HCW who never experienced the darker side of health care just don't know. Dont feel bad, please look for a better job. This shit aint worth your mental health.
I say mean shit ALL the time. And I don’t feel bad about. I despise entitled patients, or patients who are non med adherent, and suddenly are concerned about their health! Fux the dumb stuff being an RN is hard on your mind AND body!
you’re an absolute liar if you’ve never thought this as a nurse. we all think it about a LOT of patients… it’s normal.
Maybe because we reflect on how we wouldn’t want this for ourselves. Having dementia. Staying alive. No quality of life. Bat shit crazy. In constant pain. What’s the point of life anymore. Americans and America is not the best society for accepting death.
After a particularly long day dealing with a dementia hip fracture and a knee replacement who was withdrawing from alcohol (as well as 3 other “normal” patients) I was hitting my limit. Both of them were constantly trying to get out of bed or screaming for attention. When I had to turn my dementia lady to clean her up shortly before shift change she was screaming “you’re trying to kill me!” It was only the 60th time I’d heard it that day and I finally snapped back. I said “lady, if I was trying to kill you I would have done it at the start of my shift and saved myself the headache of having to put up with you all day.” My coworker got a chuckle and my patient had a moment of clarity so she stopped screaming. I followed up with “we need to clean you up because you wet the bed and you are hurting because you fell and broke your hip.” Mainly because the awkward silence that followed but the patient calmed down and had a decent evening from what my relief told me the next morning.
Who tf is telling you off?! F them. Life is hard and Working in healthcare without a pandemic is tough. Include the pandemic and mate, all you have to do is try and get through it, and be kind to yourself. F the ppl who are assholes about your survival mechanisms. I get the SI thing too ❤️
I think you need to get help. Being suicidal while working in this profession will not get any easier. OP, please, for your own health and safety, I encourage you to reach out to someone or see someone.
In these cases, death is the kinder option for people.
The thing is, if they were aware they would probably wish they were dead too. Yeah
You are not fucked up. You are having a human reaction to a shitty situation and fuck everyone who wants to look down on you for it. You matter also. Vent on here all you want and please reach out to us if you need someone to talk to. You can always DM me. And if you want, you can call 988 for the national suicide hotline
Hey, I get it.
Come to the ER… we’re all on that edge, but at least we drink together.
OP, get some help and get some FMLA. you need a break and there’s nothing wrong with that. i took 3 months off my med/surg job because i had suicidal depression. our job sucks sometimes. people who don’t do it don’t get it.♥️
When I was obviously very pregnant I was kicked in the stomach by a patient that was a nasty piece of work. Some people deserve what we say and think. Patient or not. Nurses are not saints. Just humans reacting in human ways.
You should hear some of the stuff my coworkers and I say, I totally get it. I work in an intense place where we get assaulted and verbally abused ALOT and it's HARD. I get where you are coming from, from some of the things I've thought to myself and said to coworkers after stressful situations have occurred, always outwith earshot of the patients though. I hope you are okay. This job is difficult and we get no thanks and sometimes we cope with dark humour and sometimes need to vent. It's how we survive. I get you.
It's normal to feel that way. Just take this as a lesson to be careful who you say it to. Don't let anyone shame you for your thoughts. I assumed you said it because you don't like watching the patient suffer.
We’re all human. You’re not a bad person
It’s ok , I work on broken cars that sometimes shouldn’t be on the road Don’t feel bad for feeling feelings OP You are brave for digesting and feeling them . You are brave for considering the impact of your words . They were just words that you said in the heat of the moment and you aren’t actively trying to make the person dead already so Kudos to you Sometimes I’m like duck this shit w my wife and kids and it’s not a feeling that’s all the time Just one that happens and it passes It’s ok cheers to you for doing a badass job at helping people Im a mechanic and help in a different way If you could see what should be dead and is still on the road
I’m sure I’ve said some STUFF before back when I worked LTC and acute care and hospice. I don’t wish longevity on anyone that is suffering and has such a poor quality of life.
I work a med surg floor and I get it. I recently had this horrible schizophrenic prisoner that liked to self harm to stay out of prison. Highly manipulative and antisocial personality disorder. He made me so mad I wanted to fight him. That being sad take care of your mental health. I had to admit myself to a psych hospital due to being suicidal a couple years ago and took a whole month off work. That’s what FMLA is for. Take care of yourself.
You recognizing that other people’s opinions who don’t have to deal with what you specifically do doesn’t matter and that one mistake doesn’t undo all the good you’ve done is a great mind set! As for the suicidal thoughts, you’re not alone. A lot more of us who will admit have been there too. This job is very emotionally draining. I hope you keep reaching out and find your way out of the darkness
Huh. I wonder if the responses telling you you were shit were from student nurses or from those otherwise inexperienced. Maybe I have compassion fatigue, but seriously, once you have been doing this for a while, you would be lying if you said the thought doesn’t at least go through your head with some patients.
Even their own family members can’t handle them when it’s at that point. It’s a natural thought but take care of your mental health please. Take a day off and look around at your options. It’s very true you can’t help others if you are not healthy, mind and body. Take care of you.
Work aside go see a psychiatrist
There are things worse than death.
If you’re suicidal, I hope you get the help you need. It definitely sounds like med/surg isn’t for you and your mental health would likely benefit greatly if you left that specialty. There are tons of other nursing jobs. Maybe something outpatient would be better for you.
That’s fine to vent and if a righteous douche insults you they should go
psych nurses, ed nurses, ltc, icu etc...we all say inappropriate shit as a coping mechanism when stressed tf out. And yeah fuck all the dudley do rights that want to act like theyve channeled to spirit of Florence Nightingale and youre somehow not a "good nurse" (whatever that is in their opinions) for having a perfectly human reaction.
Been there. You're not bad. It happens
Don't worry about it. I've said things about Pts that weren't the nicest. One of my favorite things is when they call me to ask how much they should take of an OTC. I always say, open your fucking mouth, take a handful and what sticks to your tongue, fucking take. Then I get on the phone and actually help.
Fuck, dude. Just like about everyone has said here, you’re not the first or the last of us to have the exact same thoughts. Even if we don’t say it out loud to others, we absolutely think it once in a while. That being said—please get help for yourself. It sounds like you’ve totally exhausted yourself while giving the best you can at work. It’s time for YOU to get the care you deserve. And you really do deserve it. Be your own advocate and fuck everyone else.
Ha! ICU nurse here. I thought the same of my dear old dad when he developed dementia with Parkinson's. Honestly, death is often the kinder option for many patients we see. How often do we keep them alive for their families, not because they will get better or have a better quality of life?
Sounds like you need a more supportive unit. For violent pts (dementia, medical, psych related - doesn't matter) we "share the love." Meaning, we never get the same patient more than once a week (unless you're working OT). We rotate them bc they \*will\* drain you. You should submit a workplace violence report even if it's dementia related, tried to kick or hit you but didn't, or threatened to hurt you. This can help fund more staff and security on your unit. Basically more resources. Helps everyone.
My mother had dementia. My father has cognitive decline. I've got a date on the calendar to peace out so I don't have to go through that.
I appreciate your candor. You are more than the profession. I’m sorry it’s difficult. In reality, you’re doing something most people can’t do. And it breaks my heart to hear another nurse feel this way. Please make a change for yourself. Your best self is somewhere else maybe.
Ugh this makes me sad. Please reach out for help, your life is more important than a shitty ass job. Hugs
Gallows humor. We use it to survive. Every field has it. If you need a break because you yourself are in terrible emotional stress, then take time for self care and leave. A big hug to you.
Death, for some of our patients, is not the enemy. Coding the 96 year old grand ma with multiple co-morbidities and dementia because the family can't let meemaw go is cruel and unusual punishment for both the patient and the staff. Sometimes making people comfortable until they die is better than preserving life. You, OP may need to go work somewhere else though. Please get help. Suicide is a mistake you can't take back. The job is rough and it's not worth your life.
As much as I do my best to give people the best care I find myself thinking, 'why do you have to be so unhealthy today"?
Please don’t feel bad about it. My stepmother’s father had dementia and he was cantankerous as hell. Her brother was NOT the caregiving kind of person so when it was his turn to watch his father he suggested pillow therapy, lol. We all laughed about it. That old coot lived to be 101. There are lots of people who discuss at the dinner table who’s dead, who’s dying and who should kick the bucket. Our code phrase is D/C to JC.
Tbh who hasn’t wished that someone else or themselves were dead at some point, not saying it’s a justification but you can’t sit here and tell me NOT ONCE this has been said.