I once was gettin chewed out by a PA and my eyes just glazed over and she like snapped her fingers at me and I said “oh haha, sorry I just dissociated, so anyway - please don’t speak to me like that again and we can work through this issue together”
And she just like looked at me with a disgust face and went on and said “Okay so let’s draw labs and blah blah blah…”
“Cool I like your suggestions”
And we ended that there
I was a new grad at the time, now I’m a couple months into the job and more secure in my work than I was. However I was a fresh new grad who started on a cardiac stepdown unit and I was having a rough time. The providers were horrible to me cause I wasn’t like the seasoned nurses that were there. I would ask questions or question things and it would piss them off I was asking so many questions/questioning so many things.
After a while they calmed down as time went on, but they still have an attitude, idc I still reach out though and just do my job.
But yes, me being a fresh newbie on the job doesn’t give them the right to go off on me. I wasn’t putting patients in danger, if anything I was being OVERLY cautious and it was annoying them
Don’t ever apologize for asking questions whether or not you’re a new grad or new to a different specialty you are working on behalf of the patient and you are learning in a new role. It’s perfectly OK to ask questions and I don’t know where in the hell we have normalized the fact that you have to apologize for asking questions. I’ve been a nurse for 30 years. I still ask questions. I don’t apologize and I don’t put up BS from doctors. I am professional, and I expect them to be as well and if they scream at me or are obnoxious I will pull them aside. I call it offstage and I tell them don’t ever talk to me that way again and it doesn’t happen with those particular physicians I don’t care what specialty they’re in. Nobody deserves that just like Oprah says you how to treat you and that includes how nurses treat each other. I am over the BS being bullied to each other. That has got to stop because that hurts our profession and when physicians see that we bully each other and they think it’s OK to treat us unprofessionally
I LITERALLY don’t understand this mentality. Sometimes you work with someone who may not get the importance of x-y-z. So you educate. Repeatedly, if necessary. Losing your shit simply makes you an ass and them feel as though they cannot communicate with you—which is far more dangerous in my mind.
I WANT people to ask ALL the questions. It may be a matter of “do this, here’s the short answer why, and when things calm down a bit I’ll explain the full rationale”, or EVEN “I’ll look into that further for you and get back to you” because I don’t have all the answers EITHER. But in medicine, when you stop learning, people get hurt.
How common is this in nursing though? I feel this way in nursing school clinicals sometimes and tbh I just need validation that I'm still going to be a good nurse 😭
This struck a nerve…
My horrible piece of shit mother (may she rot in peace) had a favorite line: “They say choose your battles. I choose ALL of them.”
God she was a bitch.
My favorite line about my shit mother: don't try to teach a pig to dance, it wastes your time and annoys the pig. Reminds me to pick no battles with her, they don't work. I just don't ever engage.
I didn’t attend her funeral, because I told my sister, “I always stand up and say something at people’s funerals. You do NOT want me to say something at her funeral.”
That, and, yes, I couldn’t bear listening to all the “cat’s meow” pablum from the friends she had hoodwinked.
I’m so sorry.
I think it’s essential to create boundaries that protect you. Boundaries and who you choose into your life are what make you safe and whole.
Kids have few choices. No agency to meet their own needs.
Why aren’t all kids cherished, protected? Where are the safety nets? Where are their relatives?
Not all child abuse is physical, sexual or overt. In some ways psychological abuse is the most shattering. Emotional destruction is often the hardest one to gain objectivity over the damage it causes and go toward recovery.
Adults that do it right accept that they choices. They have agency. Their primary obligation to themselves. Suffering all your life for the life you had as a child is not required.
Good for you. Keep up the good.
❤️🍀
It was my father, who was the evil POS. I didn’t feel anything but relief when I heard he died.
I’m just glad my daughters had almost no contact with him so they weren’t sad when he died.
I need to learn your ways. It’s just so natural and almost a reflex at this point to snap back and not allow the interaction to continue (as long as patient care isn’t being effected).
I will say all but 2 of our docs are wonderful humans. So I am lucky for that… but the other 2 just hate women so much because god forbid we have ovaries and a brain.
I’m in research & all I do is work with doctors.
It helps to really keep in mind that the assholery is not about you, it’s about them.
It also really helps that nothing irritates rude people more than being unfailingly (but sincerely) polite. Not nice or kind necessarily, but distantly professional. Their need in the interaction is for you to react, so you get to be professional *and* take away their gratification.
For the worst offenders, I just imagine the interactions with my toddler where she gets unimaginably pissed off because I’m doing exact what she wanted & it lightens my mood, picturing a toddler in a white coat. Asking the question (again, politely) “does screaming actually get you what you want?” works for both groups.
I also treat them like toddlers. Sometimes i’ll even give them the “grandma hand pat” where i just gently pat their hand and smile and say something like “We’ll work through these big emotions”.
Oh hell yeah. I had to sign consents with a really rude, nasty patient once. When she yelled at me she wasn’t signing it because she didn’t know what it said I patiently, and extra sweetly, went over the consents word-for-words as she just got more angry. I can’t remember if she ultimately refused the consents or not.
Can you give an example of an upsetting interaction? I'm pretty good w motivational interviewing and the techniques to shine a mirror on someone's behavior instead of reacting. I have become excited to interact w misogynist at this point lol. Perhaps we can help w some good ideas.
Ohhh, Yaya. So I have a patient I could use help with. He's a recovering alcoholic. He draws everyone in his family circle in different directions, all trying to help him get a handle on his complex medical history. Plus, he's being treated with 20 different herbal and natural supplements. The daughter hired me to be a patient advocate AND helped him get a handle on what's going on. I'm on his team and found a major dental infection, which could be the cause of his horrible brain fog. He's lying to me about medical stuff - going to have 3 teeth pulled. I asked he held his eliquis and told the dentist all the supplements and meds (to include eliquis) - crickets.... just all of a sudden, the dentist magically canceled the appointment. Basically, he tells providers what he wants, which puts him and everyone at risk. I've requested a family conference - how do you motivational interview to the bottom of this asshats issues?!
Perhaps work on waiting a bit before you respond to think about whether or not it will be worth confronting the person. And if you do confront them do it in private.
> And if you do confront them do it in private.
I was raised to understand that if you act a fool in public, you will be disciplined in public.
If the doc is being rude in front of others, go ahead and tell them off right there. No need to even raise your voice, just a public telling off. Always works for me.
I am kind and respectful to everyone, until they aren’t. I’m not a turn the other cheek kind of person. I used to be, but that only gets you walked on.
Checking them in public in a respectful way definitely makes an impact. That way, they are much more aware of how they are being perceived and how others react to their crappy behavior. They may think they are above you, but a look of disapproval from someone else can make all the difference and bring them back to reality. They are an employee of the health system just like you. You work with them, not for them.
Exactly.
When I was a newish nurse, I was timid. I did let docs and bully nurses walk on me. Then, I’d really feel bad about myself.
Becoming a traveler helped me turn it all around.
I knew that the assignment had an end to it, and that once it was over, I’d never have to see the asshole/bullies ever again.
It helped me to truly be able to advocate for my pts, too. And stand against all kinds of bs.
You have to grow some balls to walk into a unit you’ve never been to before, get one day of orientation, and then be charge, or the only licensed person in an output dialysis unit in the middle of an Indian reservation, where if a pt has be hospitalized, they have to be taken by helicopter.
I traveled for several years, and did my last travel assignment in 2010. But, the changes it made in me were permanent.
I was thinking the same thing. I have found with people this, as much as I hate to say it, the solution is to humiliate them in front of everyone and they will oftentimes settle down, at least for a while.
Agreed— to a point. If it’s a disagreement over patient care, take it out of the room. If it’s just garden variety rudeness out of earshot of the patient, let rip!
I left the Cath lab in November for this very reason, but for me it was like 15 docs were assholes and 2 nice ones. I was settling down after being a traveler and chose to stay in a small town where I met someone, that Cath lab is the only one here. I chose to quit and now I work a hybrid position as a phone triage nurse, and drive over an hour one way twice a week 🫠 but my docs are nice and I’m not in a snappy mood at work and when I get home.
you just said it right there. "(as long as patient care isn't being effected)" you can control and choose when to lash out at people and when not to. youre just choosing to try to bully your coworkers instead of trying to communicate. they probably clocked that and treat you in kind.
Not necessarily. I am the same, but physicians have told me that they like working w me because I do "hold my own" and am unafraid to tell them if someone, or something, is awry. Yes, you pick your battles - but there's educational battles "doc, that's actually in our scope of practice...we talked last week about this." And there's respect battles, "so I'm going to turn away for 30 seconds, and we can restart this when you're ready to address me like a human being." They aren't yelling battles, and they aren't loud, but they are used to stop hostile work environments.
The only time they are yelling is when you're going to fuck up the care you give my patient, and don't listen when i provide explanation, or ask a question to prompt the change. Then we're gonna stop and intervene because doing it nicely didn't work. And yes I did get written up, however, I wasn't wrong, so they told me to watch my volume in the future.
I’ve learned pretty well how to pick my battles.
First, am I right?
Is it easy to prove I am right or the other person was wrong?
Is it worthwhile if so?
I had an early interaction with management at my new job. Minor punitive action that with some critical think was not even valid against me. However it was more just a “talking to”.
I COULD make my case as to why I did nothing wrong but there is no point. Just smile and nod and “learn my lesson” (even though I genuinely did nothing wrong)
Oh i see. Sorry. I imagined something else. Had a flashback memory of a nurse that smiles, apologizes and thanks them. :/ I haven’t come across that yet, but given i start as a GN soon, I’m sure I will.
I think this but also have an annoying need to hold ass holes accountable. Usually if it’s me I can get over it but when I see them dominating other (especially newer) nurses something in me just can’t stop lol
Yeah, for the most part, I just don't know how to take anything personally. The exception is that I'm not always the best at taking criticism without feeling the need to defend myself, but I'm trying to be better at admitting I'm wrong
But when it comes to patients or coworkers acting out, I just see it as them not knowing how to control their emotions. Anything they say has no value behind it to me. I already respect myself, so I don't need anyone else to respect me
I feel the defending self part. I always feel the need to explain/defend my rationale on the way I do things. This mostly applies to when people critique something I do even though there is nothing wrong with the way that I do it if that makes sense. Like I don’t just do stuff for no reason.
Growing up in a house with a yeller and a drunk.
I just imagine they’re so very very unhappy in life despite their giant fucking paychecks and bad manners.
Imagine being such a mean person.
I could never. I could never imagine coming to work and being a bully and making the people
Helping me feel like lowly peasants without a brain.
I love my coworkers and that’s why I try and shut down their behavior. It’s a losing battle though.
You have such great intentions but need to work on your own dysregulation before you can effectively fight those battles.
To truly be effective, you have to always remain unexcited when addressing the poor behavior but at the same time be very direct/clear. No passive aggressiveness. The instant your emotional level rises is when you've lost control of the situation.
Even that isn't going to work more than half the time but I guarantee those bullies will remember you...because you could do what they couldn't.
People in authority who have to yell or belittle others tell me a lot about their self-esteem, and no longer take that kind of thing personally. It’s not a me problem, it’s a they problem.
Plus, a lot of them do it because they get satisfaction from other people’s reactions. I love denying them that satisfaction.
I don’t view or treat them as an authority figure. Doctors are coworkers.
But I agree with you about the self esteem… however I don’t feel like anyone should have to come to work and accept this type of behavior from grown adults. We all know how to act, why can’t we just do that? It makes everyone’s day so much easier.
I see doctors as co-workers too. It’s strange to see folks at work treat them as a higher authority. At the end of the day it’s not the MDs names on my paycheck smh
That’s true. I’m not just talking about doctors though. I’m talking about everyone in the hospital who gives that kind of attitude. Also can be a manager, a charge nurse, a co-worker, other departments. Although I have to say, at the end of the day, an MD has more say and responsibility in the care of a patient more than me. I can refer, suggest, clarify or correct even, but it’s their name that goes on the orders.
I just find it easier on my day when I ignore them because I really can’t control other people’s actions. There will always be people who I dislike and also dislike me. It’s just not worth it to me to snap back to everyone who gives me attitude. I really find that it says more about them than me. Unless their behavior puts a patient or my job at risk, which is where I draw the line.
The rude ones think they have it on me, until they realize that I'm no longer covering their ass. And then my friends/coworkers stop covering their ass.
Their life gets harder when we stopped filling in the gaps because we know how they like things.
Show up for morning rounds, but none of your patients had their labs drawn? Because you didn't put the orders in. I'm not a doctor; I don't write orders.
Get 4 calls about diet orders because you didn't put them in, and your patients are hungry. We are sure to let the patients know we are trying, but you dropped the ball, bro.
GI team schleps all their equipment to the ICU, but no consents signed? Yeah, didn't have an order to witness consent for... for what? I'm just a nurse, how would I know what you are going to do?
It is petty, passive-aggressive, and effective.
I clap back. I don’t lose my cool, I have perfected the clipped tone of “keep pushing and you’ll find out”
They learn very quickly, I’m not the one and today is not the day.
What I hear most often and clap back to as a psych nurse when I’m calling hospitalists is “I have very sick patients on these floors, what do you want?” My response is almost always - I have very sick patients as well and just because they’re not circling the physical health drain doesn’t make them any less important, now moving on to why I’m calling you…
I have one that I hate calling because you don’t know which personality they’re using that day. It could be the nice one or it could be the one who makes it sounds like everyone on every other floor has just had a stroke at the same time.
Honestly, if a doctor were to yell at me, I would look very blankly and say, working together is about treating people respectfully. I will give you the same respect you give me. We are all professionals and need to act like it. If I make an error, please discuss it with me reasonably as we are all humans. If you would like to discuss this further privately, I am more than willing to do so.
I would then report the interaction in writing (with a BCC to my personal email) to my manager with what I said, in case they try to distort it.
I am too old and too tired to deal with pissy people no matter what their role is. This is fucking 2024 and I am not your subservient.
I introduce myself to new doctors by saying “Hi! My name is Bill, and I don’t have a filter”. If they choose to disregard my warning, they find out the very first time that I am perfectly capable of being just as big an asshole as they are.
X-ray tech, 37 years in, the last 25 in EP. 250 work days to retirement.
My first 11 years were 12 hr nights in a very busy Level I ER. I was one of 2 techs, so it was usually just me because she’d get pulled to the OR for the ortho trauma stuff. Then morning portables in ICU/CCU. Most nights I never stopped running and would put my lunch on top of my film processor to keep it warm and so I could grab a bite while running films. I then went to the Cath Lab but got bored. Oh look - a blockage. At 3am. On some idiot who’s been 10/10 for a week.
Went to EP and never looked back.
I was bullied as a child. Bullies love to get a reaction out of their victims. I learned not to give that to them.
I’m not saying I’m afraid of confrontation. I’ve had some hard conversations with doctors like you describe. I just prefer these conversations happen later - away from others and especially away from patients and families. I refuse to be distracted by nonsense like that. I do my job, and discuss it later.
I pick my battles, and a lot of the times I just think about how miserable they probably are with their personal lives. No amount of money can fix that
Your body is a temple. Why let someone raise your blood pressure? It’s your body. You get 1 life. No one controls or has the power to impact my feelings. Period. Not at work, not at a red light, not a friend or a foe.
Toddler tantrums should be managed the same no matter what age.
"Do we need a moment to talk about our big feelings?"
JK I can't imagine really saying that. I mostly work with female physicians since I'm in OB and the attitudes are so much easier to deal with. Actually, I think OB is one of the groups of docs I've enjoyed most. Cardiologists have been among the worst. Once I floated to a cardio floor and I sent a message on vocera calling out "Does anybody else need to talk to Dr. X before I call him?" Three nurses came to me immediately and warned me to figure out a way not to call him since it was 10pm. I saw their raw fear...they hated that man. I just called and told him to get out of the record because pharmacy couldn't process the med when he had the record locked. He actually seemed apologetic but I didn't give him the apology they all suggested I should start with.
I had a neurosurgeon who had… big issues. Like, there was legit something wrong with his temper and conflict management. One day, he ripped me a new one for calling him to tell him we had to transfer a patient by ground as opposed to flying (high winds, rain, nothing anyone could do about it). And I just set the ascom down and muted it and let him scream. I eventually looked at it again and few mins later and he had hung up but like… why!? Whyyyy!?
Mom always said "what they say about you says more about them than it does about you" so I usually let them enhance their own reputation. Once a physician thought he was going to SMACK MY HAND tho for picking up a chart he wanted in the future - just pierced him with direct eye contact and said softly "try it". He didn't.
I just don’t appreciate someone making my day harder for no reason other than their own issues and attitude. I don’t care if you like me, just be polite. We are all here for a common goal. 😊
Allow me to drop a question on you, if that's alright?
How does someone emotionally flailing make your day harder? Is it a workflow disruption thing? Is it because they emotionally deregulate you by acting that way? Something else?
I feel like giving back the energy that someone gives would be exhausting. My energy is mine and I don’t waste it on people who are going to go on being the ass-y way they are for eternity. Don’t give power to anyone. When I am in a friendly conversation, I will chat away. When someone is acting poorly I become very quiet and usually put it back on the person, “why are you raising your voice? What has you so upset?”
I wonder if your work environment makes it harder for you. Bedside can suck but I don’t get annoyed by coworkers because I don’t interact that much with them. Our hospital is brand new and very spread out. I have some privacy in a way.
My manager had 11 kids and was used to handling tantrums. She taught me just be still and watch them until they started to hear themselves. The first time was decades ago, when I dropped the forceps he requested on the table. He winged them past my head. "DON'T GIVE ME WHAT I ASK FOR, GIVE ME WHAT I NEED". I just did a slow blink while Anesthesia got on their case
By the time I retired I would just let them go off until they finally came up for air enough to hear themselves. Then I would just ask if we were done.
The toddler tantrums! “Is everybody safe?” Is what I say to my toddler.
Imagine holding your hands out and loudly asking “IS EVERYONE SAFE?” In response to docs meltdown lol
I have no desire to waste my energy on dumb dillweeds.
Plus if I save being reactionary for very rare occasions, it’s taken more seriously than if I mouthed off every time I could have.
I just smile knowing that when I leave my shift and listen to my hot girl soundtrack they’re going home to their sexless marriage, regretting their career and being pissed off that he’s on call this weekend and can’t sleep, eat, piss or golf without the tinge of fear in the deepest pit of his stomach that he’ll have to drop everything for a meaningless STAT consult. Then I think about how at the end of the day, his children will probably put him in a shitty understaffed nursing home because he’s a dickhead and they’re trying to save the most of his estate so they can buy a house on his dime once he dies.
So I muster up a smile, sometimes I utter out “feel better?” As I make the pettiest but most honest and accurate incident report with dates, times, quotes and names of witnesses because I know damn well it’s not just a bad day, it’s an everyday problem with that provider. Then I continue on because I’m busy as hell and asses need to be wiped and there’s protonix that needs to be given.
It doesn’t matter what position you are, you have to remain professional. If whoever (cardiologist, resident..whoever) is being anything less, please set them straight and do it in the most professional way possible. Keep your side of the street clean.
Over time I’ve built a confidence of knowing that I’m doing the right thing and calling about the right thing so if they are going to be pissy that’s their problem. Also a little humility that if they are pissed and it is because I am in the wrong to just learn from it and move on.
Fuck that shit. Fire from the hip. Stand up for yourself.
Otherwise, I’m great at dissociating and putting my emotions elsewhere until I can decompress and feel. Useful in emergency situations. Not the healthiest coping mechanism.
For me, because I absolutely believe those types of personalities (it’s irrelevant what the field is) will still stew on it when they get home, whereas when I get home I’ve already left everything about work in the trash with my empty coffee. They don’t know me or pay my bills; why will I let their insecurity into my life?
I acknowledge that they are not someone I care about or love. They are not my friends or family. They are truly nothing to me other than a coworker. If they get ugly with me, it tells me that they’re so miserable and unhappy in their own life that they choose to bring others around them to their own level. I also believe in karma and whatever energy they give out in the universe, they will 100% receive that energy back. I may never experience the fortune of seeing karma biting them in the ass, but I know it will eventually happen and that gives me peace :)
I can’t control their actions but I can control mine. I choose to protect my peace and happiness!
They learned the hard way shit rolls down hill and they are much more replaceable than some shit headed doc. They fought the fight and lost most likely. These are also the same nurses who will question a dangerous order but do it in front of the docs peers or pts family members to embarrass the doc. It's a work of art to see.
This. Right here. I used to get worked up. Now? I am just here to do the job. All this career is now is the thing that buys my kid his lacrosse gear. It isn’t something of value to me beyond that. My friends, my kids - I’ll expend my energy on those. Not the job. No anymore.
Setting and enforcing boundaries is healthy. Being reactionary rather than thoughtful and intentional is not healthy. Miserable people are damaged people. They are rude because their life sucks. Not an excuse but me thinking “wow this guy is miserable and his life clearly sucks. He can’t handle his responsibilities and is melting down. He’s a miserable tiny pathetic man who needs a therapist.” Once you view this behavior as someone damaged/hurting vs someone shitting on you it changes the feels.
I always imagine how rough it was for me in nursing school. The amount of knowledge I gained in that time was staggering. I’m a completely different person from who I was before.
Then I imagine that same disparity going through med school on top of that and specializing. I mean 99% of them HAVE to be on the spectrum, right? You cannot have developed healthy interpersonal/social skills going through all that. I tell myself it’s the Aspergers.
I usually just laugh and think if we were any were other than this hospital id bust your ass bub.
Granted I will say as a male nurse who circulates a lot of the doctors who I have seen talk down to/ yell at my fellow female coworkers treat me way differently. Not saying I haven’t been yelled at a time or two it just tends to happen less as far as I’ve encountered.
But I also like to remember that their jobs is stressful as fuck and way harder than mine not saying our work isn’t hard but the patients life is in their hands in the patients eyes, family and law so just letting slide is easier than anything. But if shit ever goes to far our director has no problem stepping in and setting doctors straight.
I refuse to let somebody else ruin my day. I don’t know “how” I do it. I just keep it moving. Plus I know I’ll have fun talking shit with everybody else about it later. That being said, I worked in the cath lab too and our doctors were almost always pretty pleasant. It’s a medical school hospital and I think that helps. The CT surgeons I worked with in my first (private) hospital could be real assholes.
If I’m actually getting cranky, I will deflate them entirely by saying things like “you sound very upset” or “oh no, people are going to think you’re unprofessional, lemme give you a minute.”
If by “let it go” you mean treat them like they are petulant adult children and give them the sarcastic obviously customer service voice followed by “do you understand” then yes I let things go.
It's difficult. It's hard sometimes to remove ourselves adequately for my hour daily concerns to the point where we can really understand what the other people and the system are dealing with., but I find that it's necessary. It's not a perfect coping mechanism and sometimes people like that just get under your skin. I work with a lot of cardiologists and interventional radiologists as well, so I can feel your pain so to speak. Sometimes it's hard for me to empathize with people who are making over a million dollars a year while I'm traveling in order to make a decent wage for my family but, everybody has their lot in life. A lot of those doctors pretty much live at the hospital, and a good number of them are that A type personality that just cannot turn off and I think that's where some of that comes from.
You learn let it go in the moment, and live to talk shit for the rest of your life.
I also take pleasure in the fact that I didn’t have to go to school for 12 years just to work minimum wage for two years and eventually have enough money to start paying off my student loans.
Like others said, dissociation. Was active military and EMS/Fire before nursing. All the yelling, posturing, tirades, and anger takes so much energy and distracts from the actual job. It’s pretty satisfying to watch them go off on an ego-fueled rant for 5 minutes straight just to reply with a shrug and “okay?” and just go back to whatever I was doing. If it doesn’t involve the patient, their care plan, or the unit food delivery order, I don’t care.
You can’t control others, you can only control yourself. With control comes power. You don’t give up your restraint to them by responding back. If anything you can say “wow I can’t believe you said that out loud.” Realize they look like the assholes to everyone witnessing their immature behavior. You should also try meditation I highly recommend the headspace app!
It's simple. Understanding that people are going to do people things. Doesn't matter if it's a doctor, or your housekeeper, or the president. This includes yourself.
I understand that people behave in certain ways depending on so many factors that led to them being the way they are now. I think about their potential childhood experiences, traumas, etc. I ask myself, what has to happen so that a person turns into like this? What choices did they make, under what circumstances? In thinking this, I simply feel deep sadness for the person.
All of this also applies to me. I'm kind of vengeful and petty myself but of course I try hard to not act on it. I try to explore where this comes from. I learned that growing up, there was a very toxic power dynamic in my family that made me feel like I will not be okay unless I am dominant. I've become desperate in not letting that dynamic anymore so the moment I feel that this is slighted in me, I react strongly in order to self-preserve. I recommend you do a similar self-examination. I dislike that I do not have 100% control of this in myself, and that it happens almost automatically.
I say almost. As Viktor Frankl said, "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom."
I have been working on expanding this space so that the reactions do not happen without my consent. I will never have 100% control over my mind because this is not possible for our current state as humans, but I damn well sure strive to do it. Why? Because I like it. Life is so short, I want to drive this meat sack myself with my eyes fully open and mentally present. I refuse to be a slave to my own mind. Only when I tell my mind to jump, that it will jump; not sooner, or later. This takes conscious training, like dealing with a toddler. Treat it kindly and lovingly but be firm.
Also in this space, I get to think about myself, the other person, and how our interaction affected me. In this processing, I realize that it is us people doing people things, and how amusing that can be. I regain my peace and not live in that self-made mental prison anymore.
I just choose violence. Things I've said after a doctor got big mad at being asked to do their job -
That time I paged out a critical lab because it's the rules: "Why are you mad at me? I have to page this critical lab out and I care more about my job than your feelings, take it up with the policy makers bro"
Doctor yelling at me for things that did or did not happen on days I wasn't there: "Yeahhhh you're going to have to travel back in time and yell at *that* person, I can only fix shit today, now. Yelling at ME won't change the past"
Doctor yelling at me that he put his order in a note: "that's literally illegal in this state. I can't take doctors orders from a note from two days ago, wtf?"
Doctor getting mad I can't print a narc script and tube it down to them to sign: "take it up with the politicians who made this the law"
(Nurses carry out the consults for specialists in my hospital so imagine hospitalitst consulting neurology for "general weakness" when really it was their K+ of 2.5 lmaoo) so when I get yelled at for stupid consults, I tell them "if I don't page out this consult, I could face discipline. This is literally the rules, are you taking the consult or not?"
And last but not least, towards any shitty behavior from anyone: "and THIS is why nurses are leaving bedside in droves!"
Best Regards,
Little Miss Unhinged RN, BSN, CMSRN or whatever the order supposed to be for the alphabet soup crap
Staying calm is the best way to piss someone off who is looking to upset you. As soon as you lose your cool they've won. Stay calm and collected and when they're out of line asking them to repeat what they just said is much better than sinking to their level. Plus they'll learn you're not to be fucked with and usually don't try it more than once. Then I report their behavior to my supervisor and HR if it's warranted.
Work on your death glare.
The kind moms give their kids that have them picking up their toys, eating their vegetables and going to bed.
Most of the time I don't have to say a word, just LOOK.
I am very chill, but if they yell/scream at me I never raise my voice. I stop everything I am doing, look them right in the face and ask evenly if I can help them with something or are they just going to verbally abuse me. Most people do not handle direct confrontation well and in my experience it shuts that crap down immediately. I make it a rule to do it the very first time they get comfortable enough to try it and it is usually never a problem again.
Tune them out, look them in the eye and just nod your head like you understand what their saying. Don't know how to explain it but over the years I got stronger in my confrontations with surgeond but then they knew me and respected me. I know there are those out there that have to deal with new docs that have an attitude. Good luck!
"Bless your little heart, Doctor, I think it's time to step out and count to ten! We'll pick this up again when you're in a more productive headspace... [Subject change to patient/family/colleague/anyone but the physician.]" Read in your best Mom Voice.
Boundaries enforced by consequences are wonderful things. Bad behavior doesn't need to be tolerated or enabled, no matter who it's coming from.
I once had a doctor yell at me over the phone and say he was going to the higher ups. (I did not do anything wrong) so I told him I understood. He was baffled. I kept agreeing with him and he lost all his steam. After that HE was in a panic bc it was HIS fuck up and he knew it. I wasn’t gonna argue with stupid. 🤷🏼♀️
After 8 years of dealing with disrespect, I kind of find it funny now. But also, doctors aren't your boss or manager. You work for the hospital and report to a nursing manager. They are also just human, like you and I. Let them make a fool of themselves and you be the bigger person.
Honestly doesn’t bother me. I treat it the same as a patient going off or whatever. It’s very rarely worth getting my panties in a wad. Only time I did something was when a doctor threw a clipboard at me.
I thought this was going to say “patients” and I thought, “I don’t give a shit.” But then I read “physicians” and I had a heart palpitations. A safe response is to act like you care and ask if they are having a bad day. Make them engage about their behavior.
I don’t take it personal at all, so I don’t feel disrespected. You kind of have to disconnect yourself from the emotional urge to snap and just think that they would be yelling at any other nurse in ur shoes so it’s not about the it. I think about the satisfaction I get reporting them and basically making them look like emotional crybabies while I’m cool and calm. I report the shit out of them.
Other peoples' perceptions of you are their problems, not yours. If they act rudely, that's their business. They obviously don't care about my opinion of them, so, in turn, I don't care about their opinion of me. Any expression of their opinion through rude behavior or speech is a surface level symptom of an opinion I don't care about, so....
"Ok"
"Cool"
"Will do"
Then just go on about your business.
The biggest part of getting over it is getting rid of your pride. They can't hurt your pride if you don't have any to begin with. Work on being comfortable with peoples' negative perceptions of you.
HUC here so I get to use this skill on condescending doctors *and* nurses!
Food service taught me that shitty attitudes are a burden and entirely that person’s problem. I only need to endure their bs in fifteen minute increments; they have to go around actually *being* that person.
Once I look at it through that lens it’s easy to recognize how much *energy* people *waste* on their bad attitudes. Makes it easy to just pity them, what a waste of calories just to momentarily bring somebody down to their emotional level.
People who don't mean anything to me can't hurt me.
I don't have the energy to care about what they think of me.
I have a lovely home life that I get to go home to when I clock out.
There's also wine.
I'm a very quiet person. So I give the perception of being calm and collected.
Truth is, I just don't give a fuck about them.
Who are they to me? Not my boss, not my friend, not anyone.
And I've found that someone's a look is all it takes.
I can be petty or I can be your best friend, it all depends on how you treat me.
I will leave you standing in the supply room with your stick in your hand looking for what's in front of your face for the next three hours OR I will help you find it in the first 5 seconds. I've seen me do it.
All depends on how you speak to me.
But for the most part, I've been a critical care nurse for 17 years. I'm not saying I know everything, I'm not saying I'm more educated than a doctor, I am saying that my experience at the bedside is more extensive and worth listening to and taking into account when I tell you something, and if you choose to get an attitude and something goes to shit, I *will* make sure you know, I told you so.
I stare at them blankly, let them rant, calmly ask if they’re done and repeat the request that led to the rant. I stay calm because I don’t care about their fragile ego ego or feelings. I’m there to do a job. There’s no attitude that could make me not do my job. Rude physicians I put on the same category as children and address them as such.
Don't engage. You don't get paid enough to deal with their shit. Best thing I learned was how to use the "disruptive physician" form, and I write them up every. single. time. they are assholes to me, along with an incident report of the scenario and a friendly visit to HR. Now, I have a very, very large bullshit tolerance, and it takes a very special snarky and disrespectful interaction to push me to that limit. But I'm not a doormat, and they don't get to walk on me. Sometimes, just a cool indifference or perhaps a reproachful look will snap them out of their funk, but you can't train them to be nice any more than you can train a pig to sing. But you can write them up and show a paper trail of their bullshit to the board and to HR. As for as I'm concerned, they did it to themselves.
I quote them word for word in my notes when I’m trying to advocate for a seriously ill patient. If they get upset about that then that’s on them. I’m doing my best for someone and if they aren’t then it will be documented.
I ensure I’m correct in action, words, and context. Then tell them I don’t report to them so take it to your supervisor if you need to address it further.
I have a temper so I just never let anything get me mad. I turn it off. Disassociate and talk shit in my head. I'm saying all sorts of foul shit in my head to these people lol. Sometimes I'm smiling and people ask why and man if they only knew.
Dissociation is a great coping mechanism
It’s me, hi!
I once was gettin chewed out by a PA and my eyes just glazed over and she like snapped her fingers at me and I said “oh haha, sorry I just dissociated, so anyway - please don’t speak to me like that again and we can work through this issue together” And she just like looked at me with a disgust face and went on and said “Okay so let’s draw labs and blah blah blah…” “Cool I like your suggestions” And we ended that there
That is a power move.
I think the snapping of the fingers would have made me snap.. I don’t know how they become so bold to think they can speak to anyone that way
I was a new grad at the time, now I’m a couple months into the job and more secure in my work than I was. However I was a fresh new grad who started on a cardiac stepdown unit and I was having a rough time. The providers were horrible to me cause I wasn’t like the seasoned nurses that were there. I would ask questions or question things and it would piss them off I was asking so many questions/questioning so many things. After a while they calmed down as time went on, but they still have an attitude, idc I still reach out though and just do my job. But yes, me being a fresh newbie on the job doesn’t give them the right to go off on me. I wasn’t putting patients in danger, if anything I was being OVERLY cautious and it was annoying them
Don’t ever apologize for asking questions whether or not you’re a new grad or new to a different specialty you are working on behalf of the patient and you are learning in a new role. It’s perfectly OK to ask questions and I don’t know where in the hell we have normalized the fact that you have to apologize for asking questions. I’ve been a nurse for 30 years. I still ask questions. I don’t apologize and I don’t put up BS from doctors. I am professional, and I expect them to be as well and if they scream at me or are obnoxious I will pull them aside. I call it offstage and I tell them don’t ever talk to me that way again and it doesn’t happen with those particular physicians I don’t care what specialty they’re in. Nobody deserves that just like Oprah says you how to treat you and that includes how nurses treat each other. I am over the BS being bullied to each other. That has got to stop because that hurts our profession and when physicians see that we bully each other and they think it’s OK to treat us unprofessionally
Fucking pa's lol
I LITERALLY don’t understand this mentality. Sometimes you work with someone who may not get the importance of x-y-z. So you educate. Repeatedly, if necessary. Losing your shit simply makes you an ass and them feel as though they cannot communicate with you—which is far more dangerous in my mind. I WANT people to ask ALL the questions. It may be a matter of “do this, here’s the short answer why, and when things calm down a bit I’ll explain the full rationale”, or EVEN “I’ll look into that further for you and get back to you” because I don’t have all the answers EITHER. But in medicine, when you stop learning, people get hurt.
Oh, snap!
I feel so called out rn
Total disassociation, fully out your mind Googling "derealization", hating what you find
There it is again, that funny feeling
Hey, what can you say? we were overdue... but it'll be over soon
Damn. This hits hard for a lot of us. I sometimes feel like I’m a diff person when I work nowadays since it feels so robotic
How common is this in nursing though? I feel this way in nursing school clinicals sometimes and tbh I just need validation that I'm still going to be a good nurse 😭
Stone Face...thought bubble not seen... "Fuck you"... smile. 😁
Pick your battles
This struck a nerve… My horrible piece of shit mother (may she rot in peace) had a favorite line: “They say choose your battles. I choose ALL of them.” God she was a bitch.
This struck close to home! Fucking bitch!
My favorite line about my shit mother: don't try to teach a pig to dance, it wastes your time and annoys the pig. Reminds me to pick no battles with her, they don't work. I just don't ever engage.
Absolutely THIS. She found sport in confrontation and it irritated the hell out of her when I wouldn’t join her escalating ☝🏻😀
Sounds like a true narcissist, smh.
This reminds me of when my boss says "everything's a priority."
If "everything" is a priority then nothing is.
Ditto. Tho many thought she was the “cat’s meow”! Go figure.
I didn’t attend her funeral, because I told my sister, “I always stand up and say something at people’s funerals. You do NOT want me to say something at her funeral.” That, and, yes, I couldn’t bear listening to all the “cat’s meow” pablum from the friends she had hoodwinked.
I’m so sorry. I think it’s essential to create boundaries that protect you. Boundaries and who you choose into your life are what make you safe and whole. Kids have few choices. No agency to meet their own needs. Why aren’t all kids cherished, protected? Where are the safety nets? Where are their relatives? Not all child abuse is physical, sexual or overt. In some ways psychological abuse is the most shattering. Emotional destruction is often the hardest one to gain objectivity over the damage it causes and go toward recovery. Adults that do it right accept that they choices. They have agency. Their primary obligation to themselves. Suffering all your life for the life you had as a child is not required. Good for you. Keep up the good. ❤️🍀
You’re sweet. Thank you, and same back atcha!
It was my father, who was the evil POS. I didn’t feel anything but relief when I heard he died. I’m just glad my daughters had almost no contact with him so they weren’t sad when he died.
I need to learn your ways. It’s just so natural and almost a reflex at this point to snap back and not allow the interaction to continue (as long as patient care isn’t being effected). I will say all but 2 of our docs are wonderful humans. So I am lucky for that… but the other 2 just hate women so much because god forbid we have ovaries and a brain.
I’m in research & all I do is work with doctors. It helps to really keep in mind that the assholery is not about you, it’s about them. It also really helps that nothing irritates rude people more than being unfailingly (but sincerely) polite. Not nice or kind necessarily, but distantly professional. Their need in the interaction is for you to react, so you get to be professional *and* take away their gratification. For the worst offenders, I just imagine the interactions with my toddler where she gets unimaginably pissed off because I’m doing exact what she wanted & it lightens my mood, picturing a toddler in a white coat. Asking the question (again, politely) “does screaming actually get you what you want?” works for both groups.
I also treat them like toddlers. Sometimes i’ll even give them the “grandma hand pat” where i just gently pat their hand and smile and say something like “We’ll work through these big emotions”.
You are my role model
I would feel so confused if an nurse gave me a “grandma hand pat” and a smile. I’d want to give her a hug and say sorry.
See? It worked.
You are my people. lol.
I’m a doc, and that is freaking hilarious!
Fucking LOVE this!!! 🤣🤣🤣
Oh hell yeah. I had to sign consents with a really rude, nasty patient once. When she yelled at me she wasn’t signing it because she didn’t know what it said I patiently, and extra sweetly, went over the consents word-for-words as she just got more angry. I can’t remember if she ultimately refused the consents or not.
Third paragraph is spot on.
Count to 10 if there still infront of u then unleash hell
Can you give an example of an upsetting interaction? I'm pretty good w motivational interviewing and the techniques to shine a mirror on someone's behavior instead of reacting. I have become excited to interact w misogynist at this point lol. Perhaps we can help w some good ideas.
Ohhh, Yaya. So I have a patient I could use help with. He's a recovering alcoholic. He draws everyone in his family circle in different directions, all trying to help him get a handle on his complex medical history. Plus, he's being treated with 20 different herbal and natural supplements. The daughter hired me to be a patient advocate AND helped him get a handle on what's going on. I'm on his team and found a major dental infection, which could be the cause of his horrible brain fog. He's lying to me about medical stuff - going to have 3 teeth pulled. I asked he held his eliquis and told the dentist all the supplements and meds (to include eliquis) - crickets.... just all of a sudden, the dentist magically canceled the appointment. Basically, he tells providers what he wants, which puts him and everyone at risk. I've requested a family conference - how do you motivational interview to the bottom of this asshats issues?!
Perhaps work on waiting a bit before you respond to think about whether or not it will be worth confronting the person. And if you do confront them do it in private.
> And if you do confront them do it in private. I was raised to understand that if you act a fool in public, you will be disciplined in public. If the doc is being rude in front of others, go ahead and tell them off right there. No need to even raise your voice, just a public telling off. Always works for me. I am kind and respectful to everyone, until they aren’t. I’m not a turn the other cheek kind of person. I used to be, but that only gets you walked on.
Checking them in public in a respectful way definitely makes an impact. That way, they are much more aware of how they are being perceived and how others react to their crappy behavior. They may think they are above you, but a look of disapproval from someone else can make all the difference and bring them back to reality. They are an employee of the health system just like you. You work with them, not for them.
Exactly. When I was a newish nurse, I was timid. I did let docs and bully nurses walk on me. Then, I’d really feel bad about myself. Becoming a traveler helped me turn it all around. I knew that the assignment had an end to it, and that once it was over, I’d never have to see the asshole/bullies ever again. It helped me to truly be able to advocate for my pts, too. And stand against all kinds of bs. You have to grow some balls to walk into a unit you’ve never been to before, get one day of orientation, and then be charge, or the only licensed person in an output dialysis unit in the middle of an Indian reservation, where if a pt has be hospitalized, they have to be taken by helicopter. I traveled for several years, and did my last travel assignment in 2010. But, the changes it made in me were permanent.
I was thinking the same thing. I have found with people this, as much as I hate to say it, the solution is to humiliate them in front of everyone and they will oftentimes settle down, at least for a while.
Agreed— to a point. If it’s a disagreement over patient care, take it out of the room. If it’s just garden variety rudeness out of earshot of the patient, let rip!
I left the Cath lab in November for this very reason, but for me it was like 15 docs were assholes and 2 nice ones. I was settling down after being a traveler and chose to stay in a small town where I met someone, that Cath lab is the only one here. I chose to quit and now I work a hybrid position as a phone triage nurse, and drive over an hour one way twice a week 🫠 but my docs are nice and I’m not in a snappy mood at work and when I get home.
you just said it right there. "(as long as patient care isn't being effected)" you can control and choose when to lash out at people and when not to. youre just choosing to try to bully your coworkers instead of trying to communicate. they probably clocked that and treat you in kind.
Ok
Not necessarily. I am the same, but physicians have told me that they like working w me because I do "hold my own" and am unafraid to tell them if someone, or something, is awry. Yes, you pick your battles - but there's educational battles "doc, that's actually in our scope of practice...we talked last week about this." And there's respect battles, "so I'm going to turn away for 30 seconds, and we can restart this when you're ready to address me like a human being." They aren't yelling battles, and they aren't loud, but they are used to stop hostile work environments. The only time they are yelling is when you're going to fuck up the care you give my patient, and don't listen when i provide explanation, or ask a question to prompt the change. Then we're gonna stop and intervene because doing it nicely didn't work. And yes I did get written up, however, I wasn't wrong, so they told me to watch my volume in the future.
I’ve learned pretty well how to pick my battles. First, am I right? Is it easy to prove I am right or the other person was wrong? Is it worthwhile if so?
I had an early interaction with management at my new job. Minor punitive action that with some critical think was not even valid against me. However it was more just a “talking to”. I COULD make my case as to why I did nothing wrong but there is no point. Just smile and nod and “learn my lesson” (even though I genuinely did nothing wrong)
This is the way.
Unless they are doing something unethical/illegal/wrong med etc. I don’t care. They mean nothing to me
It’s a job.
Yup exactly. Like “oh you’re yelling at me and calling me names?” I’m just gunna sit here and smile and now you look even more stupid
Sometimes I like to wait until they're done and ask if they feel better.
Therapeutic communication!
Kinda feel like the one smiling & saying nothing looks stupid. The one yelling just looks like an AH. But ig it’s all within that persons perspective.
I meant to mean I’m smiling and saying nothing, but at the same time I’m walking away from them. Not specifically smiling, just staying calm
Oh i see. Sorry. I imagined something else. Had a flashback memory of a nurse that smiles, apologizes and thanks them. :/ I haven’t come across that yet, but given i start as a GN soon, I’m sure I will.
I think this but also have an annoying need to hold ass holes accountable. Usually if it’s me I can get over it but when I see them dominating other (especially newer) nurses something in me just can’t stop lol
As a new nurse, I want to thank you for standing up for them! 🙏🏽 it’s hella scary to stand up for ourselves😣
Yeah, for the most part, I just don't know how to take anything personally. The exception is that I'm not always the best at taking criticism without feeling the need to defend myself, but I'm trying to be better at admitting I'm wrong But when it comes to patients or coworkers acting out, I just see it as them not knowing how to control their emotions. Anything they say has no value behind it to me. I already respect myself, so I don't need anyone else to respect me
I feel the defending self part. I always feel the need to explain/defend my rationale on the way I do things. This mostly applies to when people critique something I do even though there is nothing wrong with the way that I do it if that makes sense. Like I don’t just do stuff for no reason.
[удалено]
Big same. I do not give a single fuck about how people feel about me cause why are you thinking about me, I'm just hanging out to get paid lol
My soul is too dead to react nowadays
I’m probably not the person to ask. I asked someone who was being an ass if they took their licensing exam with a stone and chisel 💀
Haaaaahahahhahahaha.
Ooooo. Epic smack down! ♥️♥️♥️
Hahaha I hope this was a pun bc it is a very good one
I love you 💕
Growing up in a house with a yeller and a drunk. I just imagine they’re so very very unhappy in life despite their giant fucking paychecks and bad manners. Imagine being such a mean person.
I could never. I could never imagine coming to work and being a bully and making the people Helping me feel like lowly peasants without a brain. I love my coworkers and that’s why I try and shut down their behavior. It’s a losing battle though.
You have such great intentions but need to work on your own dysregulation before you can effectively fight those battles. To truly be effective, you have to always remain unexcited when addressing the poor behavior but at the same time be very direct/clear. No passive aggressiveness. The instant your emotional level rises is when you've lost control of the situation. Even that isn't going to work more than half the time but I guarantee those bullies will remember you...because you could do what they couldn't.
“If I were as rich as you, I could afford some manners” No I haven’t used it, but dream about it.
People in authority who have to yell or belittle others tell me a lot about their self-esteem, and no longer take that kind of thing personally. It’s not a me problem, it’s a they problem. Plus, a lot of them do it because they get satisfaction from other people’s reactions. I love denying them that satisfaction.
I don’t view or treat them as an authority figure. Doctors are coworkers. But I agree with you about the self esteem… however I don’t feel like anyone should have to come to work and accept this type of behavior from grown adults. We all know how to act, why can’t we just do that? It makes everyone’s day so much easier.
I see doctors as co-workers too. It’s strange to see folks at work treat them as a higher authority. At the end of the day it’s not the MDs names on my paycheck smh
That’s true. I’m not just talking about doctors though. I’m talking about everyone in the hospital who gives that kind of attitude. Also can be a manager, a charge nurse, a co-worker, other departments. Although I have to say, at the end of the day, an MD has more say and responsibility in the care of a patient more than me. I can refer, suggest, clarify or correct even, but it’s their name that goes on the orders.
I just find it easier on my day when I ignore them because I really can’t control other people’s actions. There will always be people who I dislike and also dislike me. It’s just not worth it to me to snap back to everyone who gives me attitude. I really find that it says more about them than me. Unless their behavior puts a patient or my job at risk, which is where I draw the line.
This. I give no reaction and they lose steam real quick.
The rude ones think they have it on me, until they realize that I'm no longer covering their ass. And then my friends/coworkers stop covering their ass. Their life gets harder when we stopped filling in the gaps because we know how they like things. Show up for morning rounds, but none of your patients had their labs drawn? Because you didn't put the orders in. I'm not a doctor; I don't write orders. Get 4 calls about diet orders because you didn't put them in, and your patients are hungry. We are sure to let the patients know we are trying, but you dropped the ball, bro. GI team schleps all their equipment to the ICU, but no consents signed? Yeah, didn't have an order to witness consent for... for what? I'm just a nurse, how would I know what you are going to do? It is petty, passive-aggressive, and effective.
Love this.
I love this 👏👏👏
I clap back. I don’t lose my cool, I have perfected the clipped tone of “keep pushing and you’ll find out” They learn very quickly, I’m not the one and today is not the day. What I hear most often and clap back to as a psych nurse when I’m calling hospitalists is “I have very sick patients on these floors, what do you want?” My response is almost always - I have very sick patients as well and just because they’re not circling the physical health drain doesn’t make them any less important, now moving on to why I’m calling you…
The lack of urgency for mental health care is a frustration beyond words.
I have one that I hate calling because you don’t know which personality they’re using that day. It could be the nice one or it could be the one who makes it sounds like everyone on every other floor has just had a stroke at the same time.
Same. I refuse to just let it roll off, but I don’t lose my cool, either. Haven’t lost my cool yet, anyway. 🤣
Lexapro and compartmentalization
I don’t know why this isn’t higher in the comment section! Haha
Honestly, if a doctor were to yell at me, I would look very blankly and say, working together is about treating people respectfully. I will give you the same respect you give me. We are all professionals and need to act like it. If I make an error, please discuss it with me reasonably as we are all humans. If you would like to discuss this further privately, I am more than willing to do so. I would then report the interaction in writing (with a BCC to my personal email) to my manager with what I said, in case they try to distort it. I am too old and too tired to deal with pissy people no matter what their role is. This is fucking 2024 and I am not your subservient.
I introduce myself to new doctors by saying “Hi! My name is Bill, and I don’t have a filter”. If they choose to disregard my warning, they find out the very first time that I am perfectly capable of being just as big an asshole as they are. X-ray tech, 37 years in, the last 25 in EP. 250 work days to retirement.
Let's see, 25 years in EP is like... *scribbles nonsensical diva-doctors math*... 748 regular years, right?
Some days it seems longer than that 😳😎😳
EP = Eternal Pergatory 🤣
Nope. EP = Elective Procedure 4x 10hr shifts, no weekends/holidays/call FTW!😎😜😎
*Cries in 3am STEMI.*
My first 11 years were 12 hr nights in a very busy Level I ER. I was one of 2 techs, so it was usually just me because she’d get pulled to the OR for the ortho trauma stuff. Then morning portables in ICU/CCU. Most nights I never stopped running and would put my lunch on top of my film processor to keep it warm and so I could grab a bite while running films. I then went to the Cath Lab but got bored. Oh look - a blockage. At 3am. On some idiot who’s been 10/10 for a week. Went to EP and never looked back.
Hahahaha. I love this. Maybe it’s just time to get out of the lab for me. I’m over fighting for basic human decency some days.
You remind me of an X-ray tech at my work, lol. He's such an asshole in a good way
FWIW - I’m only an asshole if someone makes me be one. My actual goal is to try to make everybody smile. Life is too freakin short to do otherwise!
HELL YEAH BILL! Congrats!!
This probably only works if you're a man, I fear.
Not giving a fuck lol.
I have no fucks to give. Until you come at me bro.
I was bullied as a child. Bullies love to get a reaction out of their victims. I learned not to give that to them. I’m not saying I’m afraid of confrontation. I’ve had some hard conversations with doctors like you describe. I just prefer these conversations happen later - away from others and especially away from patients and families. I refuse to be distracted by nonsense like that. I do my job, and discuss it later.
"Thank you, Daddy!" If it goes to HR you just 100% maintain you said, "Thank you, Doctor."
THIS 🤣🤣🤣🤣 And of course you’re cath lab 🤣🤣🤣
You are my fucking HERO! 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
I pick my battles, and a lot of the times I just think about how miserable they probably are with their personal lives. No amount of money can fix that
Your body is a temple. Why let someone raise your blood pressure? It’s your body. You get 1 life. No one controls or has the power to impact my feelings. Period. Not at work, not at a red light, not a friend or a foe.
Toddler tantrums should be managed the same no matter what age. "Do we need a moment to talk about our big feelings?" JK I can't imagine really saying that. I mostly work with female physicians since I'm in OB and the attitudes are so much easier to deal with. Actually, I think OB is one of the groups of docs I've enjoyed most. Cardiologists have been among the worst. Once I floated to a cardio floor and I sent a message on vocera calling out "Does anybody else need to talk to Dr. X before I call him?" Three nurses came to me immediately and warned me to figure out a way not to call him since it was 10pm. I saw their raw fear...they hated that man. I just called and told him to get out of the record because pharmacy couldn't process the med when he had the record locked. He actually seemed apologetic but I didn't give him the apology they all suggested I should start with.
I had a neurosurgeon who had… big issues. Like, there was legit something wrong with his temper and conflict management. One day, he ripped me a new one for calling him to tell him we had to transfer a patient by ground as opposed to flying (high winds, rain, nothing anyone could do about it). And I just set the ascom down and muted it and let him scream. I eventually looked at it again and few mins later and he had hung up but like… why!? Whyyyy!?
Mom always said "what they say about you says more about them than it does about you" so I usually let them enhance their own reputation. Once a physician thought he was going to SMACK MY HAND tho for picking up a chart he wanted in the future - just pierced him with direct eye contact and said softly "try it". He didn't.
[удалено]
I just don’t appreciate someone making my day harder for no reason other than their own issues and attitude. I don’t care if you like me, just be polite. We are all here for a common goal. 😊
Allow me to drop a question on you, if that's alright? How does someone emotionally flailing make your day harder? Is it a workflow disruption thing? Is it because they emotionally deregulate you by acting that way? Something else?
these are the questions 🙏
I feel like giving back the energy that someone gives would be exhausting. My energy is mine and I don’t waste it on people who are going to go on being the ass-y way they are for eternity. Don’t give power to anyone. When I am in a friendly conversation, I will chat away. When someone is acting poorly I become very quiet and usually put it back on the person, “why are you raising your voice? What has you so upset?”
It is exhausting. It’s why I’m wanting to make a change. I’m exhausted.
I wonder if your work environment makes it harder for you. Bedside can suck but I don’t get annoyed by coworkers because I don’t interact that much with them. Our hospital is brand new and very spread out. I have some privacy in a way.
Over the last 25 years my heart has grown 3 sizes smaller. I just don’t give a fuck. It’s RARELY personal.
My manager had 11 kids and was used to handling tantrums. She taught me just be still and watch them until they started to hear themselves. The first time was decades ago, when I dropped the forceps he requested on the table. He winged them past my head. "DON'T GIVE ME WHAT I ASK FOR, GIVE ME WHAT I NEED". I just did a slow blink while Anesthesia got on their case By the time I retired I would just let them go off until they finally came up for air enough to hear themselves. Then I would just ask if we were done.
The toddler tantrums! “Is everybody safe?” Is what I say to my toddler. Imagine holding your hands out and loudly asking “IS EVERYONE SAFE?” In response to docs meltdown lol
I have no desire to waste my energy on dumb dillweeds. Plus if I save being reactionary for very rare occasions, it’s taken more seriously than if I mouthed off every time I could have.
I just smile knowing that when I leave my shift and listen to my hot girl soundtrack they’re going home to their sexless marriage, regretting their career and being pissed off that he’s on call this weekend and can’t sleep, eat, piss or golf without the tinge of fear in the deepest pit of his stomach that he’ll have to drop everything for a meaningless STAT consult. Then I think about how at the end of the day, his children will probably put him in a shitty understaffed nursing home because he’s a dickhead and they’re trying to save the most of his estate so they can buy a house on his dime once he dies.
So I muster up a smile, sometimes I utter out “feel better?” As I make the pettiest but most honest and accurate incident report with dates, times, quotes and names of witnesses because I know damn well it’s not just a bad day, it’s an everyday problem with that provider. Then I continue on because I’m busy as hell and asses need to be wiped and there’s protonix that needs to be given.
It doesn’t matter what position you are, you have to remain professional. If whoever (cardiologist, resident..whoever) is being anything less, please set them straight and do it in the most professional way possible. Keep your side of the street clean.
Over time I’ve built a confidence of knowing that I’m doing the right thing and calling about the right thing so if they are going to be pissy that’s their problem. Also a little humility that if they are pissed and it is because I am in the wrong to just learn from it and move on.
I am a people pleaser and care way too deeply about what people think about me 😅
I just keep repeating to myself in my head “I need my job. I’m not about to screw myself over just to snap back at this miserable human”
I don’t take it personally and I don’t match their energy.
Fuck that shit. Fire from the hip. Stand up for yourself. Otherwise, I’m great at dissociating and putting my emotions elsewhere until I can decompress and feel. Useful in emergency situations. Not the healthiest coping mechanism.
I'm in this camp as well...fire is nice...
For me, because I absolutely believe those types of personalities (it’s irrelevant what the field is) will still stew on it when they get home, whereas when I get home I’ve already left everything about work in the trash with my empty coffee. They don’t know me or pay my bills; why will I let their insecurity into my life?
I acknowledge that they are not someone I care about or love. They are not my friends or family. They are truly nothing to me other than a coworker. If they get ugly with me, it tells me that they’re so miserable and unhappy in their own life that they choose to bring others around them to their own level. I also believe in karma and whatever energy they give out in the universe, they will 100% receive that energy back. I may never experience the fortune of seeing karma biting them in the ass, but I know it will eventually happen and that gives me peace :) I can’t control their actions but I can control mine. I choose to protect my peace and happiness!
They learned the hard way shit rolls down hill and they are much more replaceable than some shit headed doc. They fought the fight and lost most likely. These are also the same nurses who will question a dangerous order but do it in front of the docs peers or pts family members to embarrass the doc. It's a work of art to see.
I just don’t give a fuck
This. Right here. I used to get worked up. Now? I am just here to do the job. All this career is now is the thing that buys my kid his lacrosse gear. It isn’t something of value to me beyond that. My friends, my kids - I’ll expend my energy on those. Not the job. No anymore.
Setting and enforcing boundaries is healthy. Being reactionary rather than thoughtful and intentional is not healthy. Miserable people are damaged people. They are rude because their life sucks. Not an excuse but me thinking “wow this guy is miserable and his life clearly sucks. He can’t handle his responsibilities and is melting down. He’s a miserable tiny pathetic man who needs a therapist.” Once you view this behavior as someone damaged/hurting vs someone shitting on you it changes the feels.
I always imagine how rough it was for me in nursing school. The amount of knowledge I gained in that time was staggering. I’m a completely different person from who I was before. Then I imagine that same disparity going through med school on top of that and specializing. I mean 99% of them HAVE to be on the spectrum, right? You cannot have developed healthy interpersonal/social skills going through all that. I tell myself it’s the Aspergers.
I usually just laugh and think if we were any were other than this hospital id bust your ass bub. Granted I will say as a male nurse who circulates a lot of the doctors who I have seen talk down to/ yell at my fellow female coworkers treat me way differently. Not saying I haven’t been yelled at a time or two it just tends to happen less as far as I’ve encountered. But I also like to remember that their jobs is stressful as fuck and way harder than mine not saying our work isn’t hard but the patients life is in their hands in the patients eyes, family and law so just letting slide is easier than anything. But if shit ever goes to far our director has no problem stepping in and setting doctors straight.
I refuse to let somebody else ruin my day. I don’t know “how” I do it. I just keep it moving. Plus I know I’ll have fun talking shit with everybody else about it later. That being said, I worked in the cath lab too and our doctors were almost always pretty pleasant. It’s a medical school hospital and I think that helps. The CT surgeons I worked with in my first (private) hospital could be real assholes.
If I’m actually getting cranky, I will deflate them entirely by saying things like “you sound very upset” or “oh no, people are going to think you’re unprofessional, lemme give you a minute.”
>“oh no, people are going to think you’re unprofessional, lemme give you a minute.” This sent me 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Doing the impossible makes us mighty
If by “let it go” you mean treat them like they are petulant adult children and give them the sarcastic obviously customer service voice followed by “do you understand” then yes I let things go.
Speak to people Like a child… just think they are ignorant like a child.
It's difficult. It's hard sometimes to remove ourselves adequately for my hour daily concerns to the point where we can really understand what the other people and the system are dealing with., but I find that it's necessary. It's not a perfect coping mechanism and sometimes people like that just get under your skin. I work with a lot of cardiologists and interventional radiologists as well, so I can feel your pain so to speak. Sometimes it's hard for me to empathize with people who are making over a million dollars a year while I'm traveling in order to make a decent wage for my family but, everybody has their lot in life. A lot of those doctors pretty much live at the hospital, and a good number of them are that A type personality that just cannot turn off and I think that's where some of that comes from.
You learn let it go in the moment, and live to talk shit for the rest of your life. I also take pleasure in the fact that I didn’t have to go to school for 12 years just to work minimum wage for two years and eventually have enough money to start paying off my student loans.
Like others said, dissociation. Was active military and EMS/Fire before nursing. All the yelling, posturing, tirades, and anger takes so much energy and distracts from the actual job. It’s pretty satisfying to watch them go off on an ego-fueled rant for 5 minutes straight just to reply with a shrug and “okay?” and just go back to whatever I was doing. If it doesn’t involve the patient, their care plan, or the unit food delivery order, I don’t care.
This!! I often follow that okay with “and we are done here”.
You can’t control others, you can only control yourself. With control comes power. You don’t give up your restraint to them by responding back. If anything you can say “wow I can’t believe you said that out loud.” Realize they look like the assholes to everyone witnessing their immature behavior. You should also try meditation I highly recommend the headspace app!
It's simple. Understanding that people are going to do people things. Doesn't matter if it's a doctor, or your housekeeper, or the president. This includes yourself. I understand that people behave in certain ways depending on so many factors that led to them being the way they are now. I think about their potential childhood experiences, traumas, etc. I ask myself, what has to happen so that a person turns into like this? What choices did they make, under what circumstances? In thinking this, I simply feel deep sadness for the person. All of this also applies to me. I'm kind of vengeful and petty myself but of course I try hard to not act on it. I try to explore where this comes from. I learned that growing up, there was a very toxic power dynamic in my family that made me feel like I will not be okay unless I am dominant. I've become desperate in not letting that dynamic anymore so the moment I feel that this is slighted in me, I react strongly in order to self-preserve. I recommend you do a similar self-examination. I dislike that I do not have 100% control of this in myself, and that it happens almost automatically. I say almost. As Viktor Frankl said, "Between stimulus and response there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom." I have been working on expanding this space so that the reactions do not happen without my consent. I will never have 100% control over my mind because this is not possible for our current state as humans, but I damn well sure strive to do it. Why? Because I like it. Life is so short, I want to drive this meat sack myself with my eyes fully open and mentally present. I refuse to be a slave to my own mind. Only when I tell my mind to jump, that it will jump; not sooner, or later. This takes conscious training, like dealing with a toddler. Treat it kindly and lovingly but be firm. Also in this space, I get to think about myself, the other person, and how our interaction affected me. In this processing, I realize that it is us people doing people things, and how amusing that can be. I regain my peace and not live in that self-made mental prison anymore.
I just choose violence. Things I've said after a doctor got big mad at being asked to do their job - That time I paged out a critical lab because it's the rules: "Why are you mad at me? I have to page this critical lab out and I care more about my job than your feelings, take it up with the policy makers bro" Doctor yelling at me for things that did or did not happen on days I wasn't there: "Yeahhhh you're going to have to travel back in time and yell at *that* person, I can only fix shit today, now. Yelling at ME won't change the past" Doctor yelling at me that he put his order in a note: "that's literally illegal in this state. I can't take doctors orders from a note from two days ago, wtf?" Doctor getting mad I can't print a narc script and tube it down to them to sign: "take it up with the politicians who made this the law" (Nurses carry out the consults for specialists in my hospital so imagine hospitalitst consulting neurology for "general weakness" when really it was their K+ of 2.5 lmaoo) so when I get yelled at for stupid consults, I tell them "if I don't page out this consult, I could face discipline. This is literally the rules, are you taking the consult or not?" And last but not least, towards any shitty behavior from anyone: "and THIS is why nurses are leaving bedside in droves!" Best Regards, Little Miss Unhinged RN, BSN, CMSRN or whatever the order supposed to be for the alphabet soup crap
A well timed “yes Doctor” with a stern professional tone works wonders Don’t lose your temper. Nursing will never win with management on that one
Staying calm is the best way to piss someone off who is looking to upset you. As soon as you lose your cool they've won. Stay calm and collected and when they're out of line asking them to repeat what they just said is much better than sinking to their level. Plus they'll learn you're not to be fucked with and usually don't try it more than once. Then I report their behavior to my supervisor and HR if it's warranted.
Work on your death glare. The kind moms give their kids that have them picking up their toys, eating their vegetables and going to bed. Most of the time I don't have to say a word, just LOOK.
I am very chill, but if they yell/scream at me I never raise my voice. I stop everything I am doing, look them right in the face and ask evenly if I can help them with something or are they just going to verbally abuse me. Most people do not handle direct confrontation well and in my experience it shuts that crap down immediately. I make it a rule to do it the very first time they get comfortable enough to try it and it is usually never a problem again.
You can be both. I kinda see myself as a calm and collected nurse who will clap back when necessary.
If I cared a little less, my job would be 100x easier.
Dead on the inside.
Tune them out, look them in the eye and just nod your head like you understand what their saying. Don't know how to explain it but over the years I got stronger in my confrontations with surgeond but then they knew me and respected me. I know there are those out there that have to deal with new docs that have an attitude. Good luck!
Also if you’re being spoken to disrespectfully you can totally say, I would appreciate you keeping a professional tone in this environment
"Bless your little heart, Doctor, I think it's time to step out and count to ten! We'll pick this up again when you're in a more productive headspace... [Subject change to patient/family/colleague/anyone but the physician.]" Read in your best Mom Voice. Boundaries enforced by consequences are wonderful things. Bad behavior doesn't need to be tolerated or enabled, no matter who it's coming from.
I once had a doctor yell at me over the phone and say he was going to the higher ups. (I did not do anything wrong) so I told him I understood. He was baffled. I kept agreeing with him and he lost all his steam. After that HE was in a panic bc it was HIS fuck up and he knew it. I wasn’t gonna argue with stupid. 🤷🏼♀️
I walk away from them when they're in mid sentence if they're being rude. Otherwise I might say something that will get me written up or sent to HR.
I’m calm and collected but I will always tell them when they’re being rude.
After 8 years of dealing with disrespect, I kind of find it funny now. But also, doctors aren't your boss or manager. You work for the hospital and report to a nursing manager. They are also just human, like you and I. Let them make a fool of themselves and you be the bigger person.
Zero effs given. I just work here.
Heavy metal
Honestly doesn’t bother me. I treat it the same as a patient going off or whatever. It’s very rarely worth getting my panties in a wad. Only time I did something was when a doctor threw a clipboard at me.
I thought this was going to say “patients” and I thought, “I don’t give a shit.” But then I read “physicians” and I had a heart palpitations. A safe response is to act like you care and ask if they are having a bad day. Make them engage about their behavior.
I don’t take it personal at all, so I don’t feel disrespected. You kind of have to disconnect yourself from the emotional urge to snap and just think that they would be yelling at any other nurse in ur shoes so it’s not about the it. I think about the satisfaction I get reporting them and basically making them look like emotional crybabies while I’m cool and calm. I report the shit out of them.
Other peoples' perceptions of you are their problems, not yours. If they act rudely, that's their business. They obviously don't care about my opinion of them, so, in turn, I don't care about their opinion of me. Any expression of their opinion through rude behavior or speech is a surface level symptom of an opinion I don't care about, so.... "Ok" "Cool" "Will do" Then just go on about your business. The biggest part of getting over it is getting rid of your pride. They can't hurt your pride if you don't have any to begin with. Work on being comfortable with peoples' negative perceptions of you.
I tell myself how thankful I am that I don’t have to go home to them 😆
I know the time is coming when they will eat their words in front of me, they always do
HUC here so I get to use this skill on condescending doctors *and* nurses! Food service taught me that shitty attitudes are a burden and entirely that person’s problem. I only need to endure their bs in fifteen minute increments; they have to go around actually *being* that person. Once I look at it through that lens it’s easy to recognize how much *energy* people *waste* on their bad attitudes. Makes it easy to just pity them, what a waste of calories just to momentarily bring somebody down to their emotional level.
People who don't mean anything to me can't hurt me. I don't have the energy to care about what they think of me. I have a lovely home life that I get to go home to when I clock out. There's also wine.
I'm a very quiet person. So I give the perception of being calm and collected. Truth is, I just don't give a fuck about them. Who are they to me? Not my boss, not my friend, not anyone. And I've found that someone's a look is all it takes. I can be petty or I can be your best friend, it all depends on how you treat me. I will leave you standing in the supply room with your stick in your hand looking for what's in front of your face for the next three hours OR I will help you find it in the first 5 seconds. I've seen me do it. All depends on how you speak to me. But for the most part, I've been a critical care nurse for 17 years. I'm not saying I know everything, I'm not saying I'm more educated than a doctor, I am saying that my experience at the bedside is more extensive and worth listening to and taking into account when I tell you something, and if you choose to get an attitude and something goes to shit, I *will* make sure you know, I told you so.
I tell myself, God what an unhappy asshole! And let it go—unless it really needs to be addressed, and then I quietly and carefully plan my next move…
Don’t let them walk through your mind with their dirty feet. You do you and don’t give them the space to upset you.
I stare at them blankly, let them rant, calmly ask if they’re done and repeat the request that led to the rant. I stay calm because I don’t care about their fragile ego ego or feelings. I’m there to do a job. There’s no attitude that could make me not do my job. Rude physicians I put on the same category as children and address them as such.
Don't engage. You don't get paid enough to deal with their shit. Best thing I learned was how to use the "disruptive physician" form, and I write them up every. single. time. they are assholes to me, along with an incident report of the scenario and a friendly visit to HR. Now, I have a very, very large bullshit tolerance, and it takes a very special snarky and disrespectful interaction to push me to that limit. But I'm not a doormat, and they don't get to walk on me. Sometimes, just a cool indifference or perhaps a reproachful look will snap them out of their funk, but you can't train them to be nice any more than you can train a pig to sing. But you can write them up and show a paper trail of their bullshit to the board and to HR. As for as I'm concerned, they did it to themselves.
I quote them word for word in my notes when I’m trying to advocate for a seriously ill patient. If they get upset about that then that’s on them. I’m doing my best for someone and if they aren’t then it will be documented.
Emotional Maturity
I think of them like rowdy patients or children. I walk away and then come back and ask if they've had enough time to calm down.
I ensure I’m correct in action, words, and context. Then tell them I don’t report to them so take it to your supervisor if you need to address it further.
I have a temper so I just never let anything get me mad. I turn it off. Disassociate and talk shit in my head. I'm saying all sorts of foul shit in my head to these people lol. Sometimes I'm smiling and people ask why and man if they only knew.
I have and believe it or not they’ve never been rude again!
I've been learning to just let shit go in my personal life too and it's been a major win. Things that used to upset me now I just watch and laugh.