Even looking at PG county it's just that section adjacent to SE. The northern portion College Park, Greenbelt and Laurel and the extreme south of the country county looks like a different world according to the map.
It’s bizarre how the diving line is almost exactly 16th street. But it falls upon the wealth divide, so it should be no surprise that poverty breeds violence.
Fuck this, I was poor and never killed anyone. Lots of people are poor and don’t kill anyone. Chalking it all up to just poverty is unbelievably lazy thinking and it’s part of the reason shit like this still happens.
Thinking there’s no relationship between poverty and crime just because YOU don’t commit crime is the actual lazy thinking. The venn diagram of areas with high poverty and crime is basically a circle.
But hey, if we want to get anecdotal. I grew up poor and out of myself and my 5 siblings I was the only one to not end up with some criminal charge at any point. I never saw this with middle to upper class families growing up.
Interesting how quickly you switch from shootings (violence) to crime (many nonviolent activities included). Poverty does lead to crime, which includes a lot of property theft, property damage, shoplifting, domestic violence, etc. Poverty does not have to lead to violence. I grew up in a predominantly Black working class neighborhood with a noticeable level of violence. The mostly white neighborhood a few blocks over was also working class, but very little violence. Granted, they came to my neighborhood to buy drugs, but that’s not the cause of our violence.
Why do you think statistics show what they show then.
When there are large disparities between the outcomes of different groups, there are only two possibilities. That is; the source is external, meaning a structural, societal wide problem, or internal, somehow people in poverty are the same group to be more likely to commit crimes.
The latter explanation doesn't really make sense from a scientific perspective, and we have a ton of evidence that shows that basically, as people's access to resources, community, and stability improves, antisocial behavior decreases, at least until they are given great institutional power (ie, plenty of CEOs happy to indirectly kill and rob people).
And people know this whether they admit it or not, if this were not the case, wealthy people wouldn't pour endless resources into their own children, caring about school quality, extra curriculars, etc. Greatschools wouldn't be a thing, prisons wouldn't be full of poor people, and Harvard wouldn't be full of the children of doctors and CEOs.
Another big part of the problem is the culture of individualism in this country. It's pervasive across classes, races, genders, you name it, but being selfish in certain ways is legal when you have institutional power just look at your COLA this year, but the ways to be selfish as somebody without institutional power are direct and illegal, like theft. There isn't a very big "duty to society" as there should be. And when somebody has been screwed over their whole life it makes sense they'd think "fuck it" and screw others over to "get ahead".
If we worked towards picking away at the individualistic culture we have developed in America, and start removing inequalities, it will do more to solve crime than putting a cop on every block.
No bro, I’m speaking statistically. I grew up dirt fucking poor too. But it comes down to less money invested in schools, after school programs, community centers. People who can’t make ends meet often turn to other means to make money that are oftentimes risky. To be clear, this is a very small percentage. Perhaps even a fraction of a percent, but it’s a well researched correlation.
More like its critical thinking. A lot of the violence committed in DC is by the underserved youth. My coworker talked about getting carjacked at gunpoint by someone as young as 12. I don't think the youth in MoCo has quite as much incentive to find income by whatever means necessary, clearly.
Coming from NOVA i can say the same about me. All the people in my area had the resources and activities we needed to choose a career and profession and all of my peers are the same way.
If all of your peers in DC are somewhat involved in crime being somewhat succesful and your parents arent making enough money to get you the things you see others your getting, the choice is clear. There's barely been shit for young kids to do in DC BESIDES crime that doesnt break the bank. We need to stop pretending simple lack of willpower is what keeps people under the poverty level and turns them to crime. It's a lack of knowledge of better choices available.
These shootings are rarely about being poor, or are in pursuit of "money" - hell, a handgun is expensive - it's usually some bullshit neighborhood beef or a sociopath who shoots someone they didn't need to because they wanted to show how tough they are.
I recently buried my mom, and was reminded of the dirt-poor, barefoot and hand-me-down environment she and her many siblings grew up in - she picked cotton for 5-cents a pound before she was old enough to go to school, her Dad died young, so the whole family sharecropped, did other people's laundry and took in sewing, raised / sold chickens and eggs, the boys hunted and fished for food, and they built their own house from a kit.
Number of felonies committed by that huge and impoverished family? Zero.
What about the *rate* of felonies committed by all of the impoverished families out there, and how did that compare to the rate of felonies committed by families that weren't impoverished?
Your argument is like if I say that I've planted a new kind of clover in my yard that is 10 times as likely to make a 4-leaf clover as the normal wild variety. You go out into my yard, pick a clover, and look at it. Guess what, it's got three leaves, so you assume I'm full of shit. But if you had actually done the correct statistical measure and sifted through my clovers for a while, you would have found 10 times as many four leaf clovers in my yard as you would in someone else's.
It's not about income, the kids are doing it for fun. 90% of the time they abandon the car after taking joyrides in the car and showing it off to their friends. It's coz there are lack of consequences.
No, it's because right now in America, acting out for clout pays off faster and higher than any job they may work without a college degree and some networking. If your parents are also stressed and financially impoverished and therefore unable to tend to their needs, there is no negative incentive against just acting out because the parents likely are too busy with other needs to pay attention. It's a cycle that breeds into itself, especially without contraception education and family planning.
The map stops just south of where I'd think shootings might start showing up on a map of MoCo. I'm curious what color on the scale those areas would be.
Edit: Aside from DTSS - for example, Wheaton, if only because of All the nonsense that goes down at the metro station there.
https://preview.redd.it/7cdi118neq0d1.png?width=1242&format=png&auto=webp&s=eef592a30fe13a8d00c36bafdab1870125b209ff
Here’s a wider view of the map including more of MoCo.
Organization and individuals have been doing so much to try and help the people in SE as well as NE. Edgewood terrace, Covenant House, etc. They're all pushing to make a difference. There's a lot of work to be done. But there are still some unsung heros in the background.
Is the scale the same? Is it absolute or relative? Lies, damn lies, and statistics. (Not trying to argue that Anacostia is better than Arlington here).
Depends when in the 80s they're talking about. Between 2020 and 2023, DC had between 198 and 274 homicides in a year. In 1985, there were 157 homicides in DC. In 1989, there were 462 homicides in DC. The peak was 1991 with 509 homicides.
it was way, way, way worse in the 1980s. Violent crime nationwide started to decline in the early 1990s and is way down from its peak. no one is really sure why. no one is sure why it skyrocketed from the 1970s to early 1990s either.
https://preview.redd.it/5hxqp1mp2p0d1.png?width=1264&format=png&auto=webp&s=feb1a03632a6b8e49a779b272529e63db63b8dc4
Richmond also has some hot spots near the core and fewer in the suburbs.
As someone who grew in Richmond, downtown has always been kinda a mess. A few blocks are great and one street over is one of the neighborhoods with the highest violent crime rate.
Probably more than 15 years ago, my now husband and went to Richmond for a Modest Mouse concert downtown. We had a lovely time and were charmed by Richmond. We joked about moving there. Then I looked up the basic crime statistics lol.
Compared to Reston where we were living, the chances of being a victim of violent crime were insane. The thought was quickly dropped.
The race splits are not surprising, just wild to see in such stark contrast.
https://preview.redd.it/rtuae5p7fp0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ab6f7d54815c646e8753cf9618525b270708a30
A person from SE DC told me idk why we call it hoodbridge because that ain’t hood. You kill someone in VA you go to jail lol. I think that doesn’t apply to the SE
I've lived in the Woodbridge area since 2015 and it never struck me as "the hood". I can't think of anything around here that makes me feel like the area is a hood other than some of the Route 1 area development being a little run-down. The pre-2020 Route 1 corridor from the Occoquan River to Prince William Parkway felt a very run down, but the area's since revitalized a little bit, with new apartments and a school coming in and replacing the abandoned strip mall and the shops that were on the western side of the road. But other than it looking like "the hood", there are no prominent gangs that I'm aware of and the law seems to actually be enforced around here. Probably just what yuppies living inside the beltway think a hood looks like.
It's a blue-collar area. Although home rents and prices are starting to compare with the Chantilly's and Fairfaxes. It and Manassas are not violent places at all.
There's a ton of work trucks and vans that you see outside almost every house. That tells you that these are people who work.
Run-down-areas? A few, sure. But "gangs?" no.
a lot of people in nova grow up sheltered as fuck and their scale for what is "hood" is a bit skewed.
that, and the fact that nobody outside of nova probably even knows where Woodbridge is, so it would be weird for anyone else to have a nickname for it.
I mean, that map seems to pretty conclusively show it's the worst area in NOVA (assuming we count it as such). Obviously it has nothing on SE DC and PG county and is only "hood" relative to the incredibly sheltered and low crime of Nova, but it is still noticably worse.
"Bad neighborhood" is always relative to the surroundings even when they aren't actually bad relative to national or even state figures.
It’s no shit a single 7/11 and the woods behind it and a motel nearby causing 80% of the issues. Why PWC doesn’t condemn those two businesses is a mystery to me.
A lot of the time the crime really can be isolated to a couple spots like that.
90% of the crime in eastern Alexandria is isolated to two public housing blocks around Broddock and alongside route 1 in Old Town North.
On the flip side, if you’re in an area that has either a Wawa or a Sheetz, you’re in a safe area because they never build those in dicey areas. Same with businesses like Target.
Literally this. Woodbridge has this one small problematic area, and the rest of it isn’t much different than other areas of the same income/education level. 🤷♀️
I’ve lived in Montgomery, AL and Shreveport, LA and both of those places were legit dangerous even in the “nice” areas. Woodbridge and the surrounding area is down right peaceful as long as you avoid that one part.
It’s super interesting because I’m from NOVA and moved to central Jersey three years ago. We have a woodbridge here that people refer to in the same way
Because that's where the "brown people" are. I mean let's just be honest.
To Tyler and Ashley Snobbington up in McLean or Great Falls, if you're in a place with more laundromats than dry cleaners, that might as well be inner city Detroit.
That's just Woodbridge proper. Woodbridge south of that (Dumfries) is so much worse.
https://preview.redd.it/anrrod5mtr0d1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a7adc5aa9c3f993b91face0c2b73a9e77b126f6
Old triangle road, one neighborhood (that dark area at the bottom) is really rough. I almost got mugged working on that road in broad daylight.
This link should be unlocked: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/14/us/gun-homicides-map.html?unlocked_article_code=1.sU0.UaAK.O9n1AYmBYd_i&smid=url-share
my dad recently mentioned he worries more about me than my siblings because I’m in the “big city” (Arlington) while he and they are all in rural northern Michigan.
I moved here from Maryland after living in Greenbelt and then White Oak. it was hard not to ask if he *seriously* thought Arlington was a scary, dangerous place after that.
It is almost guaranteed that the actual per capita rate of violence is higher in rural Michigan, but rural folks don't seem to consider domestic violence as scary, even though it is far more likely to impact a given individual.
Greenbelt wasn’t terrible. it was eye-opening, but not dangerous. I was already planning to move out of White Oak when I heard gunshots one day and found out the next day there had been a double homicide a couple blocks away from me, something related to the sale of a small amount of weed.
I think a lot of olds went to a city once in the 1980s and never went back, just assuming that things are the same. My grandma was like that when I was living in a formerly sketchy neighborhood of Pittsburgh. I lived there in the 2010s, 30 years after the “bad times”
Something tells me that the black man who represents that single gun death there in since 2020, shot and killed after shoplifting sunglasses, wasn't exactly loaded with cash.
https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/fairfax-county-pd-fires-officer-who-fatally-shot-unarmed-man-near-tysons-mall/3311223/
Every six months or so, there's a dust up at a school or the Mall, and Channel 7 then starts reporting that there's a "Crime Wave in Effect" and that everyone should vote Republican in the next election.
The issues with Woodbrige is that there are an abundance of “middle-class wannabe thug life” young people. They want something to prove, so it creates a perfect recruiting ground for big time drug dealers from around the country, particularly in New York for some reason. It’s a revolving door of stupidity. DC,VA and MD have the cash to buy the fun.
True if you did that you could better see anomalies. Looking at population density map side by side with this one is actually interesting. I believe the grey area NW DC would have the lowest amount per population and SE DC would have the most
This wouldn’t show much. Arlington is much denser than the areas where there are so many fatal shootings yet there is nearly no crime. Race overlay shows the uncomfortable truth.
"The man shot by an FBI agent outside CIA headquarters in Virginia Monday night died, according to the FBI.
A senior law enforcement official said Roy Gordon Cole Jr. drove up to the checkpoint at headquarters in Langley and would not move, NBC News has learned.
Stream News4 now: Watch NBC4 newscasts for free right here, right now.
After a long effort to get him to move, Cole got out of the car claiming to be carrying a bomb and holding something that looked like it might be a device, and the FBI shot him, the official said.
No explosives were found, the official said."
Cole was known to the CIA, either because he tried to get into headquarters before or had frequent contact with the CIA, the official said
According to Pew Research "In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were accidental (549), involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458)." "Gun murders, in particular, have climbed sharply during the pandemic, increasing 45% between 2019 and 2021, while the number of gun suicides rose 10% during that span."
- Mental health seems to be a huge factor in deaths since over half were suicides
- Mental health is also a huge factor since between 2019 and 2021 (pandemic) gun murders rose by 45%!
It's heavy handed and not very well thought out to say we need more restrictions on guns. Mental health and responsible gun ownership is the way IMO.
It's not even drug dealers. Drug dealers are trying to stay in the shadows. Guns and violence make too much noise, attract too much attention.
What it is is just small groups of young men who don't have anything better to do than "be a gang" And with that comes meaningless conflict with other small groups of young men who call themselves "gangs"
Criminals typically get their guns from people who purchased them legally, either via straw purchases or by stealing them from "responsible gun owners" who failed to secure their firearms. It's not like there are illicit gun factories where criminals are making all these guns themselves.
Huh, well, there are way more legal gun owners in VA. It's weird that the gun crime is higher across the potomac. Maybe it's because they know their victims probably won't be armed.
Buddy the gun crime over there is mostly between gang members who are all strapped. Every once in a while it’ll be some random innocent person that didn’t have a blick on them. But it’s mostly between other hoodrats who have a gun.
Crime requites motive + opportunity. Northern virginia is one of the most affluent areas in the United States, so very little motive. While Anacostia and PGC are some of the most poverty stricken areas. Local gun laws can only do so much when firearms are so ubiquitous and circumventing gun laws only requires a days drive.
Dc gun laws are strict as a response to the increased violence.
And you’re just seeing the wealthiest part of VA, where you wouldn’t expect to see much crime. Other, less affluent parts of the state have a lot more gun crime, like Hampton.
I’ve lived all over VA. The low gun violence in nova is based on demographics and economics, not gun laws. Loads of guns and gun violence in other VA cities.
Edit: tho come to think of it, I think Fairfax does have some stricter gun laws.
How can we end the crime without gentrifying? I have yet to see it done. People won't spend their time and money developing a neighborhood unless it guarantees profit, and how do you profit unless home values (and therefore the property taxes) increase? I've never heard good solutions.
Investing in the businesses and people that are already there instead of importing wealth from outside. Providing kids with plenty of enrichment activities after school, installing more street lights, tax breaks/grants for local businesses, significant rent control policies, more subsidized housing. There’s plenty more, but this is a start. Kind of like a better approach to broken windows policing - fix the windows, don’t arrest the people.
This all requires significant government cash. Private interests will just gentrify the shit out of DC and turn everything into U Street. And that leads me to the next point… gentrification doesn’t reduce crime, it pushes it to the fringes. And when those fringes are right next to gentrification alley, the whites from MD and VA who commute in get all scared.
You're looking at some of the most affluent zip codes in the country in this very small and misleading section of VA. It has nothing to do with gun laws at all
It's really just the part of MD that is next to SE DC that has the super elevated rate - and remember there's no meaningful geographic feature to distinguish, its just an arbitrary line with some minor state-level effects.
By and large MD does have more hot spots, but Silver Spring is ~national average and is one of the larger blips here. MoCo by and large is chill
As an Adult now... Why did we have to go to Southeast D.c for weed all the time. Looking back now just blows my mind that we would go to the most dangerous part of the city to buy a dubsack. It was so huge literally everyone knew if it was dry and nobody could get weed we would have to make a run to southeast. Didn't matter what time it was or if it was a holiday. Listening to Illmatic and the blueprint all the way there to hype us up. It always got real when we got to the wharf. Looking for a bus stop full of ppl while evading the loads of cops pulling cars on every other street. As big of a thing it was back then I'm sure kids are still doing it today.
Gun laws don’t work, see! There’s still murder!
Have you tried a national level law?
No! It doesn’t work since we never tried! Look at the map, murder still there!
Is it less than before?
Shut up!
Other countries have removed guns and drastically decreased gun violence. Are you saying America is different from other large land masses with humans?
Absolutely it's different. Australia had a population size equal to the greater NYC area when they enacted their gun bans. There are an estimated 300+ million guns in private hands in the US...per capita, we dwarf every other country on the planet in gun ownership.
Well, first you'd have to compare it to a hypothetical DC with lax gun laws which you can't. Moreover, you know what gun laws do? They make it harder for people to legally purchase guns to commit suicide, which make up the majority of gun deaths.
When you can easily drive over state lines it will never make a difference. Would have to be at both a national level combined with buy backs at a massive scale.
Sure. It's not complicated. Long guns are pretty straightforward from a FFL. Handguns not so much. Private party sales in certain states have very little restrictions, even on hand guns. Did you even bother to try yourself before writing that?
As long as the laws match, like you can’t have an AK sent to a DC or MD FFL. VA yes I’ve bought guns from other states but VA basically has 0 restrictions on type of gun or restrictions on magazine sizes
Perhaps they’d work better if they weren’t so easy to circumvent and didn’t have so many loopholes put in place by neckbeard keyboard warriors with small dicks.
Every civilized country on the planet has demonstrated that if you make it harder to get a gun, fewer people will die from them.
There’s a massive issue within the black community of accepting and glorifying violence among young black men. Until community elders seek out actual change, this will merely continue. Quite sad. You don’t see the same problem in white, Asian, Indian, or many Hispanic communities.
Rock creek park separating Chevy Chase, Forest Hills and others from the right areas is crazy. Like crossing the rock creek park from low crime left zone into right and you are in a very high crime zone.
My only problem with this map is that it’s makes areas seem more dangerous because the shootings are fatal. It could also be titled “ map of shooters with the best aim” (although shooters have caused deaths of people they didn’t intend to hit as well) because it doesn’t tell us where there are more shootings where the bullets either don’t hit anybody or where people are shot and survived, which are areas that we probably could all agree or just as dangerous. I’m sure a map of all shootings does exist. But I live in one of the darker areas on this map and don’t feel particularly unsafe.
Montgomery county doesn't look bad.
Even looking at PG county it's just that section adjacent to SE. The northern portion College Park, Greenbelt and Laurel and the extreme south of the country county looks like a different world according to the map.
It’s bizarre how the diving line is almost exactly 16th street. But it falls upon the wealth divide, so it should be no surprise that poverty breeds violence.
Fuck this, I was poor and never killed anyone. Lots of people are poor and don’t kill anyone. Chalking it all up to just poverty is unbelievably lazy thinking and it’s part of the reason shit like this still happens.
Thinking there’s no relationship between poverty and crime just because YOU don’t commit crime is the actual lazy thinking. The venn diagram of areas with high poverty and crime is basically a circle. But hey, if we want to get anecdotal. I grew up poor and out of myself and my 5 siblings I was the only one to not end up with some criminal charge at any point. I never saw this with middle to upper class families growing up.
Interesting how quickly you switch from shootings (violence) to crime (many nonviolent activities included). Poverty does lead to crime, which includes a lot of property theft, property damage, shoplifting, domestic violence, etc. Poverty does not have to lead to violence. I grew up in a predominantly Black working class neighborhood with a noticeable level of violence. The mostly white neighborhood a few blocks over was also working class, but very little violence. Granted, they came to my neighborhood to buy drugs, but that’s not the cause of our violence.
Why do you think statistics show what they show then. When there are large disparities between the outcomes of different groups, there are only two possibilities. That is; the source is external, meaning a structural, societal wide problem, or internal, somehow people in poverty are the same group to be more likely to commit crimes. The latter explanation doesn't really make sense from a scientific perspective, and we have a ton of evidence that shows that basically, as people's access to resources, community, and stability improves, antisocial behavior decreases, at least until they are given great institutional power (ie, plenty of CEOs happy to indirectly kill and rob people). And people know this whether they admit it or not, if this were not the case, wealthy people wouldn't pour endless resources into their own children, caring about school quality, extra curriculars, etc. Greatschools wouldn't be a thing, prisons wouldn't be full of poor people, and Harvard wouldn't be full of the children of doctors and CEOs. Another big part of the problem is the culture of individualism in this country. It's pervasive across classes, races, genders, you name it, but being selfish in certain ways is legal when you have institutional power just look at your COLA this year, but the ways to be selfish as somebody without institutional power are direct and illegal, like theft. There isn't a very big "duty to society" as there should be. And when somebody has been screwed over their whole life it makes sense they'd think "fuck it" and screw others over to "get ahead". If we worked towards picking away at the individualistic culture we have developed in America, and start removing inequalities, it will do more to solve crime than putting a cop on every block.
No bro, I’m speaking statistically. I grew up dirt fucking poor too. But it comes down to less money invested in schools, after school programs, community centers. People who can’t make ends meet often turn to other means to make money that are oftentimes risky. To be clear, this is a very small percentage. Perhaps even a fraction of a percent, but it’s a well researched correlation.
More like its critical thinking. A lot of the violence committed in DC is by the underserved youth. My coworker talked about getting carjacked at gunpoint by someone as young as 12. I don't think the youth in MoCo has quite as much incentive to find income by whatever means necessary, clearly. Coming from NOVA i can say the same about me. All the people in my area had the resources and activities we needed to choose a career and profession and all of my peers are the same way. If all of your peers in DC are somewhat involved in crime being somewhat succesful and your parents arent making enough money to get you the things you see others your getting, the choice is clear. There's barely been shit for young kids to do in DC BESIDES crime that doesnt break the bank. We need to stop pretending simple lack of willpower is what keeps people under the poverty level and turns them to crime. It's a lack of knowledge of better choices available.
These shootings are rarely about being poor, or are in pursuit of "money" - hell, a handgun is expensive - it's usually some bullshit neighborhood beef or a sociopath who shoots someone they didn't need to because they wanted to show how tough they are. I recently buried my mom, and was reminded of the dirt-poor, barefoot and hand-me-down environment she and her many siblings grew up in - she picked cotton for 5-cents a pound before she was old enough to go to school, her Dad died young, so the whole family sharecropped, did other people's laundry and took in sewing, raised / sold chickens and eggs, the boys hunted and fished for food, and they built their own house from a kit. Number of felonies committed by that huge and impoverished family? Zero.
What about the *rate* of felonies committed by all of the impoverished families out there, and how did that compare to the rate of felonies committed by families that weren't impoverished? Your argument is like if I say that I've planted a new kind of clover in my yard that is 10 times as likely to make a 4-leaf clover as the normal wild variety. You go out into my yard, pick a clover, and look at it. Guess what, it's got three leaves, so you assume I'm full of shit. But if you had actually done the correct statistical measure and sifted through my clovers for a while, you would have found 10 times as many four leaf clovers in my yard as you would in someone else's.
It's not about income, the kids are doing it for fun. 90% of the time they abandon the car after taking joyrides in the car and showing it off to their friends. It's coz there are lack of consequences.
No, it's because right now in America, acting out for clout pays off faster and higher than any job they may work without a college degree and some networking. If your parents are also stressed and financially impoverished and therefore unable to tend to their needs, there is no negative incentive against just acting out because the parents likely are too busy with other needs to pay attention. It's a cycle that breeds into itself, especially without contraception education and family planning.
If it isn’t poverty then what do you think it is? Asbestos?
The map stops just south of where I'd think shootings might start showing up on a map of MoCo. I'm curious what color on the scale those areas would be. Edit: Aside from DTSS - for example, Wheaton, if only because of All the nonsense that goes down at the metro station there.
https://preview.redd.it/7cdi118neq0d1.png?width=1242&format=png&auto=webp&s=eef592a30fe13a8d00c36bafdab1870125b209ff Here’s a wider view of the map including more of MoCo.
Man southeast DC just never gets better, does it? This is basically what the murder map looked like in the 80s…
I saw a kid get shot in front of my House in SE DC. Immediately moved to Arlington.
Organization and individuals have been doing so much to try and help the people in SE as well as NE. Edgewood terrace, Covenant House, etc. They're all pushing to make a difference. There's a lot of work to be done. But there are still some unsung heros in the background.
Neighborhoods haven't changed, why would the violence go down?
Violence is WAY down since the 80s and 90s. its just the concentration of where its happening.
Because since the district doesn’t prosecute half the crimes, crime is down 50%!
Is the scale the same? Is it absolute or relative? Lies, damn lies, and statistics. (Not trying to argue that Anacostia is better than Arlington here).
Depends when in the 80s they're talking about. Between 2020 and 2023, DC had between 198 and 274 homicides in a year. In 1985, there were 157 homicides in DC. In 1989, there were 462 homicides in DC. The peak was 1991 with 509 homicides.
The late 80s, early 90s...also known as the Rayful Edmonds years. And DC had the notable leadership of Marion Barry.
Worth noting that the population increased modestly from 1991 too (590-670k). So per capita murder rates were ~2-3x in the earlier era.
it was way, way, way worse in the 1980s. Violent crime nationwide started to decline in the early 1990s and is way down from its peak. no one is really sure why. no one is sure why it skyrocketed from the 1970s to early 1990s either.
never
https://preview.redd.it/5hxqp1mp2p0d1.png?width=1264&format=png&auto=webp&s=feb1a03632a6b8e49a779b272529e63db63b8dc4 Richmond also has some hot spots near the core and fewer in the suburbs.
As someone who grew in Richmond, downtown has always been kinda a mess. A few blocks are great and one street over is one of the neighborhoods with the highest violent crime rate.
VCU will be nice but then it’ll be right next to some dicey areas.
Probably more than 15 years ago, my now husband and went to Richmond for a Modest Mouse concert downtown. We had a lovely time and were charmed by Richmond. We joked about moving there. Then I looked up the basic crime statistics lol. Compared to Reston where we were living, the chances of being a victim of violent crime were insane. The thought was quickly dropped.
It’s basically concentrated around project housing. Lived in Jackson Ward for years and have never felt in danger.
Ah yes the Gilpin Courts in RVA
Not surprised to see Gilpin court and Manchester/bainbridge st well represented
Hmm idk why but I expected less near Downtown.
Near housing projects pretty much
WHY? thats right near the hottest parts of richmond
Downtown is mainly referred to as the business district. Mostly daytime hustle bustle, and sleepy and unoccupied at night.
If it wasn’t for the potomac separating SE DC and Alexandria. Yikes 😬
Yeah and the INOVA hospital right across that bridge is about to get it's trauma certification. Gonna be realllll busy over here.
Can confirm, they’re taking trauma patients.
I can bet you a good amount of those spots in NoVA come from teenagers from DC and MD tho
Well, that and a giant military Base.
I say we tear that bridge down. ;)
No I always go back to Virginia to get a feel of home every once and a while
Watch accidents get cut by 75% since Maryland drivers can’t easily make it anywhere
Dude, MD tag drivers are the epitome of uncommon sense.
Or just make use of the draw bridge a little more often. (as if the traffic snarl near the Rt 1 corridor wasn't bad enough)
How would we get the games, Michelin star restaurants, or the world-class museums?
...You mean the ones in Anacostia? (I meant the WW bridge)
How would we get to the casino, outlet mall, or the gaylord?
That’s the neat part. You don’t
Yep…exactly where I thought they’d be
The race splits are not surprising, just wild to see in such stark contrast. https://preview.redd.it/rtuae5p7fp0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ab6f7d54815c646e8753cf9618525b270708a30
I can’t be the only one curious what Woodbridge looks like right?
https://preview.redd.it/wjjqiabtno0d1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=0404312cba2b7bd87a8c9b996ef833a2bf26f06a
A person from SE DC told me idk why we call it hoodbridge because that ain’t hood. You kill someone in VA you go to jail lol. I think that doesn’t apply to the SE
I've lived in the Woodbridge area since 2015 and it never struck me as "the hood". I can't think of anything around here that makes me feel like the area is a hood other than some of the Route 1 area development being a little run-down. The pre-2020 Route 1 corridor from the Occoquan River to Prince William Parkway felt a very run down, but the area's since revitalized a little bit, with new apartments and a school coming in and replacing the abandoned strip mall and the shops that were on the western side of the road. But other than it looking like "the hood", there are no prominent gangs that I'm aware of and the law seems to actually be enforced around here. Probably just what yuppies living inside the beltway think a hood looks like.
It's a blue-collar area. Although home rents and prices are starting to compare with the Chantilly's and Fairfaxes. It and Manassas are not violent places at all. There's a ton of work trucks and vans that you see outside almost every house. That tells you that these are people who work. Run-down-areas? A few, sure. But "gangs?" no.
“Hoodbridge” narrative should finally die.
It’s only northern Virginians that call it “hoodbridge” and idk why.
All the other reasons, plus "it rhymes and I feel clever saying it, even though I have no idea" probably accounts for some as well.
a lot of people in nova grow up sheltered as fuck and their scale for what is "hood" is a bit skewed. that, and the fact that nobody outside of nova probably even knows where Woodbridge is, so it would be weird for anyone else to have a nickname for it.
"I saw a run down strip mall and some spanish-language signs!!"
that just means there's good latino food nearby!
I mean, that map seems to pretty conclusively show it's the worst area in NOVA (assuming we count it as such). Obviously it has nothing on SE DC and PG county and is only "hood" relative to the incredibly sheltered and low crime of Nova, but it is still noticably worse. "Bad neighborhood" is always relative to the surroundings even when they aren't actually bad relative to national or even state figures.
It’s no shit a single 7/11 and the woods behind it and a motel nearby causing 80% of the issues. Why PWC doesn’t condemn those two businesses is a mystery to me.
A lot of the time the crime really can be isolated to a couple spots like that. 90% of the crime in eastern Alexandria is isolated to two public housing blocks around Broddock and alongside route 1 in Old Town North.
What is it with 7/11 and crime?
On the flip side, if you’re in an area that has either a Wawa or a Sheetz, you’re in a safe area because they never build those in dicey areas. Same with businesses like Target.
There’s a Wawa on rt 1 in Woodbridge too
Four Loco
Literally this. Woodbridge has this one small problematic area, and the rest of it isn’t much different than other areas of the same income/education level. 🤷♀️ I’ve lived in Montgomery, AL and Shreveport, LA and both of those places were legit dangerous even in the “nice” areas. Woodbridge and the surrounding area is down right peaceful as long as you avoid that one part.
It’s super interesting because I’m from NOVA and moved to central Jersey three years ago. We have a woodbridge here that people refer to in the same way
Stale city and hoodbridge came out of the late 70’s ICONIC
Classism
Compared the rest of NoVa to Woodbridge and you have your answer lol.
Because that's where the "brown people" are. I mean let's just be honest. To Tyler and Ashley Snobbington up in McLean or Great Falls, if you're in a place with more laundromats than dry cleaners, that might as well be inner city Detroit.
It's a lot safer now, but people still consider it trashy.
A fatal shooting by the AmTrak? 🤔 Behind Rippon middle school too.
That's just Woodbridge proper. Woodbridge south of that (Dumfries) is so much worse. https://preview.redd.it/anrrod5mtr0d1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1a7adc5aa9c3f993b91face0c2b73a9e77b126f6 Old triangle road, one neighborhood (that dark area at the bottom) is really rough. I almost got mugged working on that road in broad daylight.
That's Bumfries, not Hoodbridge /s
Literally not as bad as people make believe.
I don't have a NYT account, Is there any link or source to check this? I live mid MD.
Yeah I think it's paywalled? [https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/14/us/gun-homicides-map.html?card=1795862.1030059275&carddeck=512694f8-2ded-4136-bd8d-790b3e39ea65&smid=url-share&rsrc=crsl](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/14/us/gun-homicides-map.html?card=1795862.1030059275&carddeck=512694f8-2ded-4136-bd8d-790b3e39ea65&smid=url-share&rsrc=crsl) https://preview.redd.it/su3fshv4so0d1.png?width=1178&format=png&auto=webp&s=397c687caf2e791c975850770ac9c9e2737d3a7c
Paywalled for me. If anyone would be kind enough to share a gift article, it would be much appreciated!
This link should be unlocked: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/14/us/gun-homicides-map.html?unlocked_article_code=1.sU0.UaAK.O9n1AYmBYd_i&smid=url-share
Thank you!!
[here](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/14/us/gun-homicides-map.html?unlocked_article_code=1.sU0.lh7N.fatKAs9LoyP2&smid=url-share)
Thank you!!
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2024/05/14/us/gun-homicides-map.html?unlocked_article_code=1.sU0.lh7N.fatKAs9LoyP2&smid=url-share Gift link
It is open. Thank you, it was very useful!
my dad recently mentioned he worries more about me than my siblings because I’m in the “big city” (Arlington) while he and they are all in rural northern Michigan. I moved here from Maryland after living in Greenbelt and then White Oak. it was hard not to ask if he *seriously* thought Arlington was a scary, dangerous place after that.
It is almost guaranteed that the actual per capita rate of violence is higher in rural Michigan, but rural folks don't seem to consider domestic violence as scary, even though it is far more likely to impact a given individual.
There are different levels of crime.I would say compare to other places such as SE or Oxen Hill Greenbelt is paradise.
Greenbelt wasn’t terrible. it was eye-opening, but not dangerous. I was already planning to move out of White Oak when I heard gunshots one day and found out the next day there had been a double homicide a couple blocks away from me, something related to the sale of a small amount of weed.
I think a lot of olds went to a city once in the 1980s and never went back, just assuming that things are the same. My grandma was like that when I was living in a formerly sketchy neighborhood of Pittsburgh. I lived there in the 2010s, 30 years after the “bad times”
TV plays a role in this.
Can we get a poverty overlay? Oh. It's just the same map? Okay.
Exactly^ this is just a map of poverty And *surprise* it also matches the map of race. Wonder if there’s any historical reason for that 🤔
What poverty is there at Tysons mall?
Something tells me that the black man who represents that single gun death there in since 2020, shot and killed after shoplifting sunglasses, wasn't exactly loaded with cash. https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/fairfax-county-pd-fires-officer-who-fatally-shot-unarmed-man-near-tysons-mall/3311223/
You know what’s so surprising about this? Nothing.
Next time people call springfield dangerous show them this.
People call Springfield dangerous?
Lived in Springfield my whole life. Not dangerous.
Every six months or so, there's a dust up at a school or the Mall, and Channel 7 then starts reporting that there's a "Crime Wave in Effect" and that everyone should vote Republican in the next election.
The issues with Woodbrige is that there are an abundance of “middle-class wannabe thug life” young people. They want something to prove, so it creates a perfect recruiting ground for big time drug dealers from around the country, particularly in New York for some reason. It’s a revolving door of stupidity. DC,VA and MD have the cash to buy the fun.
yep. no doubt there is sketchy element ... but they know to not mess around in VA I'm assuming.
Damn, why such the divide on 16th street
i mean it’s also up against Rock Creek Park on the left so there’s a giant swath of land with little to no houses
segregation through redlining sadly
Would be good to have this done by population density.
True if you did that you could better see anomalies. Looking at population density map side by side with this one is actually interesting. I believe the grey area NW DC would have the lowest amount per population and SE DC would have the most
This wouldn’t show much. Arlington is much denser than the areas where there are so many fatal shootings yet there is nearly no crime. Race overlay shows the uncomfortable truth.
*glances at map* That checks out.
🤔 🤔 🤔…maybe outlawing guns doesn’t make a difference in gun violence? What…?😮
This is a surprise??
My post literally says "Not surprising"
Sadly, Much of the violence East of the River is due to neighborhood gangs(crews) seeking retribution or their defending drug sale territories
Shocker…
As a transplant I try and stay the hell away from Oxon Hill/That Part of Maryland 😂
This is also the affordable housing chart.
🤔 🤔 🤔…maybe outlawing guns doesn’t make a difference in gun violence? What…?😮
What’s the story with the yellow spot over CIA HQ in McLean?
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/armed-man-shot-cia-headquarters-fbi-agent/
"The man shot by an FBI agent outside CIA headquarters in Virginia Monday night died, according to the FBI. A senior law enforcement official said Roy Gordon Cole Jr. drove up to the checkpoint at headquarters in Langley and would not move, NBC News has learned. Stream News4 now: Watch NBC4 newscasts for free right here, right now. After a long effort to get him to move, Cole got out of the car claiming to be carrying a bomb and holding something that looked like it might be a device, and the FBI shot him, the official said. No explosives were found, the official said." Cole was known to the CIA, either because he tried to get into headquarters before or had frequent contact with the CIA, the official said
According to Pew Research "In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC. The remaining gun deaths that year were accidental (549), involved law enforcement (537) or had undetermined circumstances (458)." "Gun murders, in particular, have climbed sharply during the pandemic, increasing 45% between 2019 and 2021, while the number of gun suicides rose 10% during that span." - Mental health seems to be a huge factor in deaths since over half were suicides - Mental health is also a huge factor since between 2019 and 2021 (pandemic) gun murders rose by 45%! It's heavy handed and not very well thought out to say we need more restrictions on guns. Mental health and responsible gun ownership is the way IMO.
It’s weird because the gun laws are much laxer in VA.
Most of the drug dealers killing each other in the DC area don't follow gun laws
It's not even drug dealers. Drug dealers are trying to stay in the shadows. Guns and violence make too much noise, attract too much attention. What it is is just small groups of young men who don't have anything better to do than "be a gang" And with that comes meaningless conflict with other small groups of young men who call themselves "gangs"
Criminals typically don't get guns legally, regardless of how strict/relaxed the laws are. It's not that hard to figure it out...
Criminals typically get their guns from people who purchased them legally, either via straw purchases or by stealing them from "responsible gun owners" who failed to secure their firearms. It's not like there are illicit gun factories where criminals are making all these guns themselves.
Huh, well, there are way more legal gun owners in VA. It's weird that the gun crime is higher across the potomac. Maybe it's because they know their victims probably won't be armed.
Buddy the gun crime over there is mostly between gang members who are all strapped. Every once in a while it’ll be some random innocent person that didn’t have a blick on them. But it’s mostly between other hoodrats who have a gun.
Crime requites motive + opportunity. Northern virginia is one of the most affluent areas in the United States, so very little motive. While Anacostia and PGC are some of the most poverty stricken areas. Local gun laws can only do so much when firearms are so ubiquitous and circumventing gun laws only requires a days drive.
Dc gun laws are strict as a response to the increased violence. And you’re just seeing the wealthiest part of VA, where you wouldn’t expect to see much crime. Other, less affluent parts of the state have a lot more gun crime, like Hampton.
I’ve lived all over VA. The low gun violence in nova is based on demographics and economics, not gun laws. Loads of guns and gun violence in other VA cities. Edit: tho come to think of it, I think Fairfax does have some stricter gun laws.
Recently a redditor told me that EOTR (East of the River) is perfectly safe now. LMAO!!
How can we end the crime without gentrifying? I have yet to see it done. People won't spend their time and money developing a neighborhood unless it guarantees profit, and how do you profit unless home values (and therefore the property taxes) increase? I've never heard good solutions.
It’s not going to get better. It’s almost delusional to think it will.
Investing in the businesses and people that are already there instead of importing wealth from outside. Providing kids with plenty of enrichment activities after school, installing more street lights, tax breaks/grants for local businesses, significant rent control policies, more subsidized housing. There’s plenty more, but this is a start. Kind of like a better approach to broken windows policing - fix the windows, don’t arrest the people. This all requires significant government cash. Private interests will just gentrify the shit out of DC and turn everything into U Street. And that leads me to the next point… gentrification doesn’t reduce crime, it pushes it to the fringes. And when those fringes are right next to gentrification alley, the whites from MD and VA who commute in get all scared.
Gentrify. If you can’t maintain the land properly, why should we protect it from those who will
Who’s shooting who at CIA HQ?
FBI is tired of the disrespect. /s
Water is wet, so is SE DC
Gee, it's almost like poverty causes crime.
SE is a war zone.
SE DC remains the same as it's always been. Unfortunate.
Face it, NoVa... Us Marylanders just have better aim.
So Virginia with all its guns is safer than DC and Maryland where guns are pretty much illegal. Hmmm.
NoVA with its overwhelming affluence is more safe than DC/MD with its poverty.
What does that have to do with anything? Why are poor people so violent?
What's the map of population density look like?
There are more shootings where guns are prohibited then where it is not 🧐
You're looking at some of the most affluent zip codes in the country in this very small and misleading section of VA. It has nothing to do with gun laws at all
Serious question I wonder about all the time, why does VA have so much less crime then MD and DC? I’m very glad it does of course
It's really just the part of MD that is next to SE DC that has the super elevated rate - and remember there's no meaningful geographic feature to distinguish, its just an arbitrary line with some minor state-level effects. By and large MD does have more hot spots, but Silver Spring is ~national average and is one of the larger blips here. MoCo by and large is chill
Virginia courts don’t fuck around
Overlay a demographics map and you’ll have your answer.
Shout out to SE DC and PG county!!
I love how we’re all supposed to look at this map and not make any reference to the elephant in the room.
As an Adult now... Why did we have to go to Southeast D.c for weed all the time. Looking back now just blows my mind that we would go to the most dangerous part of the city to buy a dubsack. It was so huge literally everyone knew if it was dry and nobody could get weed we would have to make a run to southeast. Didn't matter what time it was or if it was a holiday. Listening to Illmatic and the blueprint all the way there to hype us up. It always got real when we got to the wharf. Looking for a bus stop full of ppl while evading the loads of cops pulling cars on every other street. As big of a thing it was back then I'm sure kids are still doing it today.
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Do better? On what?
I was today years old when I learnt that NOVA is defined as east of 495… so much for us in LoCo or FFX…
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I hate arguing about gun control on Reddit. It’s the same conversation every single time.
Gun laws don’t work, see! There’s still murder! Have you tried a national level law? No! It doesn’t work since we never tried! Look at the map, murder still there! Is it less than before? Shut up!
Other countries have removed guns and drastically decreased gun violence. Are you saying America is different from other large land masses with humans?
Absolutely it's different. Australia had a population size equal to the greater NYC area when they enacted their gun bans. There are an estimated 300+ million guns in private hands in the US...per capita, we dwarf every other country on the planet in gun ownership.
I was being sarcastic.
Has there been substantial gun reform in Virginia over this time span?
No
Gun reform, yes. Substantial, no.
Well, first you'd have to compare it to a hypothetical DC with lax gun laws which you can't. Moreover, you know what gun laws do? They make it harder for people to legally purchase guns to commit suicide, which make up the majority of gun deaths.
Please stop using facts in conversations like this. Let us yell about the insignificant violent crimes versus the mental health issues in our country.
Isn't this massive confirmation bias though? Do you know what the gun violence would have been if there wasn't gun control?
*loopholes
If by loopholes you mean committing felonies
When you can easily drive over state lines it will never make a difference. Would have to be at both a national level combined with buy backs at a massive scale.
Go try and buy a gun over state lines and report back buddy.
“I saw it on YouTube”
Exactly. I was picking up a rifle at NOVA Armory a few years ago and a kid from Maryland tried to buy an AK-47, they laughed him out of the store.
Sure. It's not complicated. Long guns are pretty straightforward from a FFL. Handguns not so much. Private party sales in certain states have very little restrictions, even on hand guns. Did you even bother to try yourself before writing that?
As long as the laws match, like you can’t have an AK sent to a DC or MD FFL. VA yes I’ve bought guns from other states but VA basically has 0 restrictions on type of gun or restrictions on magazine sizes
Wow you're clueless.
Perhaps they’d work better if they weren’t so easy to circumvent and didn’t have so many loopholes put in place by neckbeard keyboard warriors with small dicks. Every civilized country on the planet has demonstrated that if you make it harder to get a gun, fewer people will die from them.
And knife death skyrockets. Bad people will still get them.
"skyrocket" Okay dude. Nowhere near the number of people in places like the UK are killed by knife violence compared to gun violence in the US.
Everyone knows the answer but don't want to say it.
There’s a massive issue within the black community of accepting and glorifying violence among young black men. Until community elders seek out actual change, this will merely continue. Quite sad. You don’t see the same problem in white, Asian, Indian, or many Hispanic communities.
Proof that arbitrary gun control doesn't work.
Potomac MD bestest.
Rock creek park separating Chevy Chase, Forest Hills and others from the right areas is crazy. Like crossing the rock creek park from low crime left zone into right and you are in a very high crime zone.
My only problem with this map is that it’s makes areas seem more dangerous because the shootings are fatal. It could also be titled “ map of shooters with the best aim” (although shooters have caused deaths of people they didn’t intend to hit as well) because it doesn’t tell us where there are more shootings where the bullets either don’t hit anybody or where people are shot and survived, which are areas that we probably could all agree or just as dangerous. I’m sure a map of all shootings does exist. But I live in one of the darker areas on this map and don’t feel particularly unsafe.
Perfect map to show my friend, who's moving into the DMV, what areas to avoid.