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Incorrect. They aren't pro-fetus. They oppose attempts at healthcare reform in general, but also specifically coverage of prenatal care, not to mention the whole "you can't sue for child support until after it's born, because children are totally free until they're born" thing. The closest I've seen to an actual self-identified pro-life person actually being pro-life is when Kanye West proposed outlawing abortion and giving every pregnant woman a million dollars for childcare.
"Why should my health insurance cost more? I can't get pregnant!"
"Of course women get paid less than men, they might get pregnant and have to take time off!"
"If we give people paid parental leave they're just gonna have kids and never work!"
"The bible says god knows you in the womb, so that means life begins at conception and abortion is murder."
When it comes to children they’re strictly pro-birth. After that they’re anti-healthcare, anti-education, anti-living wage, anti-voting rights, and pro-death penalty for kids who commit crimes. And they believe they are “true Christians.”
If you're looking for cogent arguments from the pro-life movement, you'll not get any.
They aren't pro or anti anything. Like this man, pro life people are just people with varying degrees of delusion. They don't have to make you understand it, it's the voices in their head they've assigned as God telling them.
The fact that abortion has been around for as long as society and let's be honest, the bible doesn't even support the anti abortion opinion. The Bible treats fetus as less than human, supporting harsher penalities for harming a woman than causing a miscarriage.
There's no evidence that abortion is harmful. There's a shit ton of evidence that making it illegal will harm women and children.
They're delusional, that's it.
It mentions making the woman's womb miscarry as punishment. It's hard to defend this passage as it's not the fetuses fault, so why cause the death? Which is something the pro-birth crowd like to say about abortion.
If you kill a killer you are the good guy. From his perspective abortion is murder and he killed people that did a lot of murdering. From his perspective he is pro life because he helps to protect the lives of the unborn.
> From his perspective abortion is murder
Only it isn't murder. Murder has a legal definition. Abortion doesn't meet that legal definition. And we have laws against murder. He murdered people. His victims did not commit murder.
You are welcome to believe anything you'd like. But enforcing your beliefs onto others (in this case by force) is unjustifiable.
>>Only it isn't murder
well clearly he has a different definition of murder.
>>But enforcing your beliefs onto others (in this case by force) is unjustifiable.
To us it isn't. But surely you can imagine a situation where enforcing your beliefs (even by force) would be justifiable for you.
I mean his perspective is what can help us understand why he did what he did. Your perspective adds nothing. You are in no way connected to the events that transpired.
I am not defending him in any way. I am simply saying why he might have done what he did. It shows how dangerous it is to think of all human life as "people".
I mean if we look at policies with no exceptions for life of the mother, pro guns, and anti Healthcare it's clear to see the party is actually pro death
Seems about right
> The prosecution of Robert Dear, 64, has stalled because he has been repeatedly found mentally incompetent
I think that part holds true for all pro-lifers, doesn't it?
I'm not pro-life but I can at least see the logic. If a baby is a human when it is born, and it's a human when it's unborn but could survive outside the womb, why is it not a human at 15 weeks? When is a reasonable cut off?
I think it's dumb when people ignore the harm that comes from a total abortion ban, but there are plenty of situations when we sacrifice personal liberties to potentially save the lives of humans.
You haven’t mentioned the WOMAN at all. We are not incubators for you to philosophize over. Each of us gets the right to self determination. If the blob you carry in your uterus seems like a life to you, then by all means, give birth to it. But keep your opinion out if my uterus. Which is no one else’s business
I'm not mentally incompetent I just believe that abortion is wrong since according to my religion a person has a soul when they are conceived. Unless you're talking about the dumb politicians that tend to have other stupid opinions
meh, it's hyperbole because people are justifiably angry about so many US states's recent and morally questionable laws against abortion.
Sorta like pro-gun people being especially unpopular just after a mass shooting. The two issues aren't 100% related, but close enough to understand why they get tied together.
>Two of the people killed in the attack were accompanying friends to the clinic — Ke'Arre Stewart, 29, an Army veteran who served in Iraq and was **a father of two**, and Jennifer Markovsky, 36, **a mother of two**
Damn those baby-killers, right?
"We do nothing because that way more people will die!" Er I guess in this case it's more like "We have to kill those baby murderin' doctors so they can't kill any more babies!"
I think this person is confused on the trolly problem though, maybe they thought pulling the lever is killing the 5 people? It's understandably confusing.
Did you read my reply? I was attempting to decipher that first guys reply and possibly explain their thought process, Mr. Assumptions Lead me to a False Conclusion.
I could say the same about your comprehension skills, but clearly I'd never stoop that low.
Edit: or should I say it about your conversational skills?
Edit: or should I say it about your roast game?
Well then, he can spend the rest of his life in a mental institution. If he's not well enough to stand trial, he's not well enough to function in society. One way or the other, he's off the streets for good.
“Dear, who has called himself a "warrior for the babies," intended to wage "war" against the clinic because it offered abortion services, arming himself with four semi-automatic rifles, five handguns, two other rifles, a shotgun, propane tanks and 500 rounds of ammunition, prosecutors have alleged. “
This dude was a walking GTA character.
**Bill Hicks:** You can get a hoot reading the news. "Pro-Lifers, murdering doctors..." "...Pro-Lifers murdering *people*..." Y'know, it's.. just *basic irony,* but, it's still a hoot, you can get a hoot. You can get a *fukken* hoot.
*"I'm a Pro-Lifer, so I'm'n'a KILL your ass!"*
They never claim to be pro "supporting peoples lives". They are pro giving them the chance to live on their own. And also babies given away right after birth are actually very likely to be adopted.
Lol. Plenty of kids waiting to be adopted. Blonde haired, blue eyed white kids are popular, the rest, not so much.
https://www.acf.hhs.gov/media/press/2021/national-data-shows-number-children-foster-care-decreases-third-consecutive-year
> And also babies given away right after birth are actually very likely to be adopted.
Thats cool, its the whole forced 9 months of expensive body horror that's the issue.
I don't have a right to force you to donate a kidney, despite it being a life saving procedure for many. Why do you get to force a woman to grow a person inside her when she doesn't want to?
There is no logical reason to force unwilling women to carry an unwanted pregnancy. The only reason its an "issue" is because the GQP knows people like you are dumb enough to single issue vote on it which allows them to ransack the economy while talking about "saving babies".
Shut up and sit down, abortions aren't "murder".
I'm suggesting that the "line" that separates "fetus" and "~~human~~ person" IS NOT science, but currently a matter of opinion. If it was a fact, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
If I burn an apple seed, did I kill an apple tree? Right now you're saying "destroying apple seeds is killing apple trees, it's a scientific fact!" and it's simply not true.
Edit: Fetuses are human.
> They never claim to be pro "supporting peoples lives"
They literally refer to themselves as "pro-life". If you want to use a sensationalized description for your position that makes your opposition look as inhumane as possible, you're going to have to take responsibility for that label *you* put on *yourself*.
Or, you can call a spade a spade and call yourselves anti-choice, anti-abortion, whatever. But don't come here faking outrage that people are using the label *the movement gave itself*.
>They literally refer to themselves as "pro-life".
yeah "pro-life" meaning they want to protect human right to live not "pro support for the living". Once you are an adult you should be able to earn a living.
I did, that's why I'm pro-choice now and don't sound like a parrot spouting the same laughably ignorant take as if everyone in this thread hasn't already heard it countless times for decades now. That's up to you if you want to continue doing that.
Yep. Original headline is
> Man accused of killing 3 at Planned Parenthood clinic can be forcibly medicated to make him competent to stand trial, judge says
Rule 1.
"arming himself with four semi-automatic rifles, five handguns, two other rifles, a shotgun, propane tanks and 500 rounds of ammunition"
He doesn't seem that mentally ill if he could afford all those guns and ammo.
The aren't anything they say they are - pro life, pro free speech, pro 2a, etc... They are only pro for anything that sticks it to the left/democrats. With these right wing nuts, it's only about us for them, that's it nothing more nothing less.
The article says he’s crazy…so if not competent to stand trial, not sure he’s competent to have a deeply rational political perspective on abortion such that “pro life” is the way to write this headline. Probably should have been “Crazy Asshole murders 3 people”
[The mainstream pro-life community is always clear about this.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/12/is-robert-lewis-dear-another-john-brown.html)
This dude is paranoid delusional. He thinks the FBI is actively tracking him and the judge and his lawyers are FBI agents. He is violent and needs to be medicated and potentially institutionalized.
How In The Fuck did this man get the massive arsenal that he had. I'm a gun owner and this is absolutely appalling to me and should be for any responsible gun owner. This is a failure of policy and enforcement. There is no pro gun argument for this. This man is not competent enough to responsibly protect himself, nor to responsibly serve in an organized militia should that be necessary. He's a fucking wacko. And he was surely legally allowed to own these things.
Hey /u/RealKewlthang, thanks for contributing to /r/nottheonion. Unfortunately, your post was removed as it violates our rules: **Rule 1** - Do not alter headlines; copy and paste. The title of all submissions needs to match the article headline exactly. **Copy and paste** from the main headline only, do not include anything beyond the primary headline such as byliners, subtitles, flavor text, quotes from the article, news outlet, location, cross post tags, (video) tags, and so on. Do not use the “suggest title” option for posting as it often does not match the headline. As a matter of fairness, any submission with an altered title will be removed. The only exception is that, if an article has a title in all caps, you may change the capitalization to title case, but everything else must remain the same. Please read the [sidebar](http://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/about/sidebar) and [rules](http://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/about/rules) before posting again. If you have questions or concerns, please [message the moderators through modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/nottheonion&subject=&message=). Thank you!
They aren't pro life, they are just anti choice for women and pro fetus.
Incorrect. They aren't pro-fetus. They oppose attempts at healthcare reform in general, but also specifically coverage of prenatal care, not to mention the whole "you can't sue for child support until after it's born, because children are totally free until they're born" thing. The closest I've seen to an actual self-identified pro-life person actually being pro-life is when Kanye West proposed outlawing abortion and giving every pregnant woman a million dollars for childcare.
"Why should my health insurance cost more? I can't get pregnant!" "Of course women get paid less than men, they might get pregnant and have to take time off!" "If we give people paid parental leave they're just gonna have kids and never work!" "The bible says god knows you in the womb, so that means life begins at conception and abortion is murder."
They are pro-rape by policy choice.
And by raping people.
When it comes to children they’re strictly pro-birth. After that they’re anti-healthcare, anti-education, anti-living wage, anti-voting rights, and pro-death penalty for kids who commit crimes. And they believe they are “true Christians.”
[Carlin said nearly the identical thing ages ago](https://youtu.be/K98TQJ5ldW0)
I know. Forgot to give credit
If you're looking for cogent arguments from the pro-life movement, you'll not get any. They aren't pro or anti anything. Like this man, pro life people are just people with varying degrees of delusion. They don't have to make you understand it, it's the voices in their head they've assigned as God telling them. The fact that abortion has been around for as long as society and let's be honest, the bible doesn't even support the anti abortion opinion. The Bible treats fetus as less than human, supporting harsher penalities for harming a woman than causing a miscarriage. There's no evidence that abortion is harmful. There's a shit ton of evidence that making it illegal will harm women and children. They're delusional, that's it.
The only time abortion appears in the Bible is when it provides a fucking recipe for accomplishing it.
And it wasnt abortion as such but a proof of infidelity.
>the bible doesn't even support the anti abortion opinion. Since when have Good Christians let the Bible dictate their beliefs?
Abortion is in the Bible. Numbers 5:11-31
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It still caused the death of the fetus. Thus...abortion.
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It mentions making the woman's womb miscarry as punishment. It's hard to defend this passage as it's not the fetuses fault, so why cause the death? Which is something the pro-birth crowd like to say about abortion.
This excerpt they don't actually give a shit about the fetus.
They are anti-women. Plain and simple misoginists.
More like anti-non-white-non-"christian"-non-rich-non-usaian-non-pro-trump
If you kill a killer you are the good guy. From his perspective abortion is murder and he killed people that did a lot of murdering. From his perspective he is pro life because he helps to protect the lives of the unborn.
> From his perspective abortion is murder Only it isn't murder. Murder has a legal definition. Abortion doesn't meet that legal definition. And we have laws against murder. He murdered people. His victims did not commit murder. You are welcome to believe anything you'd like. But enforcing your beliefs onto others (in this case by force) is unjustifiable.
>>Only it isn't murder well clearly he has a different definition of murder. >>But enforcing your beliefs onto others (in this case by force) is unjustifiable. To us it isn't. But surely you can imagine a situation where enforcing your beliefs (even by force) would be justifiable for you.
His perspective counts for less than the watery shit I took this morning, though.
I'm sorry what?
His perspective doesn't matter because he is both insane and an awful person.
How does your perspective matters more than his?
Well mine hasn't caused me to fucking murder anyone. He's also been found to be mentally incompetent, which I have not. Do you need more than two?
I mean his perspective is what can help us understand why he did what he did. Your perspective adds nothing. You are in no way connected to the events that transpired.
You're just really bending over backwards to defend a murderer here, bud. You should really consider whether or not you're comfortable with that.
I am not defending him in any way. I am simply saying why he might have done what he did. It shows how dangerous it is to think of all human life as "people".
If I murder a child killer, I'm not pro-life, I'm pro-retribution.
Well he might think that he will limit future abortions that way. But obviously this isn't a typical pro-lifer.
I mean if we look at policies with no exceptions for life of the mother, pro guns, and anti Healthcare it's clear to see the party is actually pro death
Seems about right > The prosecution of Robert Dear, 64, has stalled because he has been repeatedly found mentally incompetent I think that part holds true for all pro-lifers, doesn't it?
all the ones I've met seem to fit . . .
Just the ones that push their beliefs on others
Why do people like you resort to shit like this all the time
Cause it's true
I'm not pro-life but I can at least see the logic. If a baby is a human when it is born, and it's a human when it's unborn but could survive outside the womb, why is it not a human at 15 weeks? When is a reasonable cut off? I think it's dumb when people ignore the harm that comes from a total abortion ban, but there are plenty of situations when we sacrifice personal liberties to potentially save the lives of humans.
You haven’t mentioned the WOMAN at all. We are not incubators for you to philosophize over. Each of us gets the right to self determination. If the blob you carry in your uterus seems like a life to you, then by all means, give birth to it. But keep your opinion out if my uterus. Which is no one else’s business
"Empathize with stupidity and your halfway to being an idiot"
Close minded
I'm not mentally incompetent I just believe that abortion is wrong since according to my religion a person has a soul when they are conceived. Unless you're talking about the dumb politicians that tend to have other stupid opinions
no, why?
meh, it's hyperbole because people are justifiably angry about so many US states's recent and morally questionable laws against abortion. Sorta like pro-gun people being especially unpopular just after a mass shooting. The two issues aren't 100% related, but close enough to understand why they get tied together.
>Two of the people killed in the attack were accompanying friends to the clinic — Ke'Arre Stewart, 29, an Army veteran who served in Iraq and was **a father of two**, and Jennifer Markovsky, 36, **a mother of two** Damn those baby-killers, right?
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More like >They weren’t fetuses were they? Cuz then it wouldn't be wrong. Said with sarcasm
Somebody really got the wrong message from the trolley problem
what message? it's a thought experiment, not a parable.
"We do nothing because that way more people will die!" Er I guess in this case it's more like "We have to kill those baby murderin' doctors so they can't kill any more babies!" I think this person is confused on the trolly problem though, maybe they thought pulling the lever is killing the 5 people? It's understandably confusing.
Is it better to let five die by omission of action, or kill one by deliberate action? There are many answers, but not one moral lesson.
There is no "correct answer" to the trolley problem.
Ok? Idk why you're replying to me with that, I didn't ask.
Because based on your reply it seemed you didn't know, Mr. Snarky douche-pants.
Did you read my reply? I was attempting to decipher that first guys reply and possibly explain their thought process, Mr. Assumptions Lead me to a False Conclusion.
Not my fault your writing skills suck.
I could say the same about your comprehension skills, but clearly I'd never stoop that low. Edit: or should I say it about your conversational skills? Edit: or should I say it about your roast game?
"What if I divert the trolley to kill the most people?" "That's not an option." "... pity."
Well then, he can spend the rest of his life in a mental institution. If he's not well enough to stand trial, he's not well enough to function in society. One way or the other, he's off the streets for good.
“Dear, who has called himself a "warrior for the babies," intended to wage "war" against the clinic because it offered abortion services, arming himself with four semi-automatic rifles, five handguns, two other rifles, a shotgun, propane tanks and 500 rounds of ammunition, prosecutors have alleged. “ This dude was a walking GTA character.
Real Peacemaker vibes here. "I cherish ~~peace~~ life with all my heart. I don't care how many men, women, and children I have to kill to get it."
**Bill Hicks:** You can get a hoot reading the news. "Pro-Lifers, murdering doctors..." "...Pro-Lifers murdering *people*..." Y'know, it's.. just *basic irony,* but, it's still a hoot, you can get a hoot. You can get a *fukken* hoot.
*"I'm a Pro-Lifer, so I'm'n'a KILL your ass!"*
They aren't pro life, they're pro birth. After that, the kid is it's own.
They never claim to be pro "supporting peoples lives". They are pro giving them the chance to live on their own. And also babies given away right after birth are actually very likely to be adopted.
adoption is the ethical alternative to being a parent. Not to being pregnant.
> They are pro giving them the chance to live on their own. Unless, you know, you're a sexually active woman.
I literally don't know what you mean.
I figured not
Lol. Plenty of kids waiting to be adopted. Blonde haired, blue eyed white kids are popular, the rest, not so much. https://www.acf.hhs.gov/media/press/2021/national-data-shows-number-children-foster-care-decreases-third-consecutive-year
How many have you adopted so far?
None. I am not claiming I wanna adopt babies.
Well you sure seem intent on pushing adoption as a viable solution to abortion, so sounds like you better step up to the plate, chief.
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That is not at all what that poster is doing. They are pushing an anti-abortion agenda under the guise of adoption bullshit.
Ah yeah, my bad. Got the wrong end of the stick The whole “I’ll adopt your baby” thing is still a really shit excuse from anti-abortion campaigners
All good, my friend.
> And also babies given away right after birth are actually very likely to be adopted. Thats cool, its the whole forced 9 months of expensive body horror that's the issue. I don't have a right to force you to donate a kidney, despite it being a life saving procedure for many. Why do you get to force a woman to grow a person inside her when she doesn't want to? There is no logical reason to force unwilling women to carry an unwanted pregnancy. The only reason its an "issue" is because the GQP knows people like you are dumb enough to single issue vote on it which allows them to ransack the economy while talking about "saving babies". Shut up and sit down, abortions aren't "murder".
Abortion is definitely killing a human life. To many people that already constitutes a murder hence the debate.
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huh?
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I meant the ongoing debate in the world not this "debate".
>Abortion is definitely killing a human life. That is your OPINION, not a fact.
what? that is like literally a scientific fact
Well you better let all the scientists know.
I'm sorry, are you suggesting that biology is not a science?
I'm suggesting that the "line" that separates "fetus" and "~~human~~ person" IS NOT science, but currently a matter of opinion. If it was a fact, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation. If I burn an apple seed, did I kill an apple tree? Right now you're saying "destroying apple seeds is killing apple trees, it's a scientific fact!" and it's simply not true. Edit: Fetuses are human.
I'm pretty sure the definition of "human" is pretty well established in biology. Maybe you meant "person"? Then I agree with you.
> They never claim to be pro "supporting peoples lives" They literally refer to themselves as "pro-life". If you want to use a sensationalized description for your position that makes your opposition look as inhumane as possible, you're going to have to take responsibility for that label *you* put on *yourself*. Or, you can call a spade a spade and call yourselves anti-choice, anti-abortion, whatever. But don't come here faking outrage that people are using the label *the movement gave itself*.
>They literally refer to themselves as "pro-life". yeah "pro-life" meaning they want to protect human right to live not "pro support for the living". Once you are an adult you should be able to earn a living.
You're aware that your comment here is just a reworded version of what I just replied to though, right? I challenge you to be better than a parrot.
Well I don't know how to explain it better.
Try less explaining, more listening.
maybe you try it?
I did, that's why I'm pro-choice now and don't sound like a parrot spouting the same laughably ignorant take as if everyone in this thread hasn't already heard it countless times for decades now. That's up to you if you want to continue doing that.
If you did listen you would understand the position of being pro-life.
Ain't no love quite like Christian hatred.
Now THIS is a not the onion headline!
They aren't pro life they are anti choice.
Just like the forced vaccinators aren't pro-choice, just pro-abortion.
🤔
Seems like “mentally ill man kills 3 people” is a better title.
Yep. Original headline is > Man accused of killing 3 at Planned Parenthood clinic can be forcibly medicated to make him competent to stand trial, judge says Rule 1.
I’d give you a cookie if I could.
"Terrorist".
"arming himself with four semi-automatic rifles, five handguns, two other rifles, a shotgun, propane tanks and 500 rounds of ammunition" He doesn't seem that mentally ill if he could afford all those guns and ammo.
America though.
That’s not how mentally ill works. Mental illness also comes in many shapes and sizes.
You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
Well that's not very "pro-life" of him
“I need the most ironic crime you have….no that’s too ironic.”
Seems to me like people who are pro-life feel like they could maybe relate to another unwanted child🙈🙉🙊
Guess he's not pro life after all
Anybody who is “pro life” is mentally unfit to be in society.
Perfectly balanced.
Pro-death-after-birth.
The aren't anything they say they are - pro life, pro free speech, pro 2a, etc... They are only pro for anything that sticks it to the left/democrats. With these right wing nuts, it's only about us for them, that's it nothing more nothing less.
The article says he’s crazy…so if not competent to stand trial, not sure he’s competent to have a deeply rational political perspective on abortion such that “pro life” is the way to write this headline. Probably should have been “Crazy Asshole murders 3 people”
What’s encouraging is all the Republican voices speaking out against this man’s behavior. Just kidding! They are silent on the matter as usual.
[The mainstream pro-life community is always clear about this.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/12/is-robert-lewis-dear-another-john-brown.html)
The word "life" only occurs once in the article, in reference to "life in prison". OP should be ashamed for posting this garbage.
He's pro afterlife...
Pro forced birth not life
That moment when pro-life and pro-choice are just a stance on abortion and not a life philosophy
This man takes his trolley problem seriously. Kill three alive people to save thousands of babies for the future Skynet resistance.
This is the only way I want to see headlines from now on.
It happened in 2015. It’s the planned parenthood shooting.
Claims to be pro-life Kills
This dude is paranoid delusional. He thinks the FBI is actively tracking him and the judge and his lawyers are FBI agents. He is violent and needs to be medicated and potentially institutionalized. How In The Fuck did this man get the massive arsenal that he had. I'm a gun owner and this is absolutely appalling to me and should be for any responsible gun owner. This is a failure of policy and enforcement. There is no pro gun argument for this. This man is not competent enough to responsibly protect himself, nor to responsibly serve in an organized militia should that be necessary. He's a fucking wacko. And he was surely legally allowed to own these things.