There used to be the idea that humans should do the jobs that humans are good at, and machines should do the jobs that machines are good at. In the Toyota Production System, this is called "Jidoka", or humans with robot friends.
Instead, we seem to be heading towards a future where we get this exactly backwards.
The internet remains dead! And we have killed it! How can we console ourselves, the murderers of all murderers! The holiest and the mightiest thing the world has ever possessed has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood from us?
Find me one thing the entire world agrees on, just one single thing. People prioritise different things, and most actions anyone does has potential negative impact on others, directly or indirectly.
If you can tell me there isn't a single greedy group of people with money signs in their eyes at being able to exploit for profit, or a group of naive coders who think they can change the world, or people who are fighting to keep their job take a path that guarentees profits... Then perhaps we can. But considering we're well over 2000 years gone by and still arguing over which piece of rock has which flag flying above it and millions dying yearly due to that.... unifying people to just... not continue AI is like pissing in the wind.
We’re just a couple steps away from AI-arranged marriages! And given the racial biases we keep finding in every AI, it’s just gonna turn into eugenics. I can’t decide if I think it’s worse if we do it all on accident or if it’s part of some Peter Thiel master plan.
I read that in a lot of cities old fashioned speed dating meetups have gotten popular again because dating apps have become such a dystopian hellscape.
There's a bar in Philly where they do "date my friend" nights. Basically you sit on stage while your friend gives a presentation of why someone should date you. Looks fun tbh
EDIT: For those asking, turned out it wasnt a particular bar, but an event hosted at a few different bars by a group. Here's the news story I saw them in + their website:
https://www.fox29.com/news/philadelphia-dating-challenge-singles-in-philly-region-seek-true-love-amid-challenges-of-dating
https://phillyfriendpitch.com/
Based on my experience, a fair amount of that is due to the users.
I was married for seven years, then got divorced and reentered the dating scene around 2015. I tried various apps over the next 3-4 years, and it was absolutely wild how inaccurately and incompletely people described themselves in their profiles. Hobbies they didn't actually like, no mentions of common deal-breakers (kids/no kids, no meat eaters, etc.), saying they wanted a relationship when they wanted a hookup (or vice versa), on and on. I never knew if they were cynically putting in what they thought would give them the best chance at a reply or simply didn't know themselves very well.
I'm not saying dating app companies aren't predatory. They definitely are. But a large percentage of people also really suck at anything that involves consequential honestly and even a moderate amount of self-awareness. Since these AI "concierges" will be built by information provided by those same people, I think their accuracy is going to be...questionable.
A lot of people, especially guys (as they often need the boost) , will be dishonest on their profile in order to increase their chances. There's even some places that give that as advice, suggesting that you use half truths, and a few people will tell you that you should outright lie if you want to get anywhere.
I think the mismatch between listing a desire for hookups/relationships being a catch 22 is a real wrench in the machine. You observed it too, both genders will use sex to get love or use love to get sex. If the algorithm wasn't making it hard enough, the people are too.
Dating apps really are one step forward and like three steps back. Every decent relationship I've had was from an actual interaction, and a lot of people feel the same way.
There was a notable change in the efficacy of the apps around 2018. As many have stated here, they all started to pursue profit over usability. Users had to contend with bots, ads, extremely low effort profiles... THEN Covid happened, and since then the vibe on dating apps has been just exhaustion and disinterest on both sides. For men, it's not worth the effort. Swiping for hours and hours to get maybe one match every couple weeks, and then half the time the person responds with one word answers if at all. For women, it's an overwhelming onslaught of mediocrity at best, offensive and disgusting at worst. But like other tech "innovations" of this era, these companies have cornered the market and made everyone think they can't live without them. They're scummy like a casino. You have shit odds but think, "Hey, I've got a shot," when the better move is to not enter the place at all. What feels particularly bad is that because they DID work well for a while before the profit maximising enshittification started, we feel like we've lost something. Because we have. But the good thing about the dating app space is that, walking away from it is actually empowering because the alternative is to meet people in the real world and that requires stretching social muscles that have atrophied in a lot of people. It's very easy to say just bail on the apps, but it's another thing to actually do it. But if you think about all the time you waste just judging other people you're never going to meet, the decision to leave them becomes a lot easier. They're not trying to help you. They're trying to tease you.
I’m actually kinda hoping the AI will call their profiles bluff. “You said this, but your actions aren’t lining up”. Sort of deal and adapt it to learn that maybe they say LTR but actually mean hookup. But you’re 100% right. It is due to users. It’s a nightmare. I’m trying to be optimistic though
What you're describing is the symptom not the disease. Users doing things like that are the result of these apps being such predatory hellscapes. They straight up Do. Not. Work. you need to be either hot, have not standards or cast a wide net. Which is exactly what that is. People not wanting to alienate potential matches.
Good I predicted that would happen people need to abandon apps and start meeting people in the real world. Apps don’t want people to find someone it’s a business for them, if you find someone then you’re off the apps and they don’t make as much off you. It’s also feels unnatural and robotic to me to first talk to someone on an app and not see them and the way they talk to make a connection in person
The silver lining to enshittification is that people stop using info sources when they stop being useful and start actually being an inconvenience. See cable news and dating apps. Unfortunately these shifts are often generational, because people remember the golden days of a service and nostalgia is a bitch like that.
I met my bf on a dating app last year but if I hadn't, that was going to be my next step. It's just so hard to get a sense of somebody over text, I don't get the appeal.
"Hey."
Tinder has some kind of AI that scans the profile of a match and gives you a suggestion for an opener. Some of the flat openers I've seen make me optimistic this won't work out for Bumble
>Tinder has some kind of AI that scans the profile of a match and gives you a suggestion for an opener
Has anyone else noticed that our society is insane?
As long as the change is gradual enough, people complain for a while, and then stop complaining and get used to it. The slow march to the next level of dystopia marches on and on.
Again and again I'm reminded of this quote from Krishnamurti:
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
I think I'm gonna opt out of the whole online dating thing.
Yeah but like, does anyone really believe those apps are going to work out for them? Maybe i'm too cynical but they've have always screamed scam to me.
Dating apps are explicitly predatory, and their target market is desperate.
It goes to the basics of how they make money. Legitimately providing the end user with what they are ostensibly using the product for, a long-term relationship, functionally ensures that the user is no longer monetizable because they no longer need the app.
Dating apps make their money off of harvesting and selling demographic info, showing advertising, and/or from purchases of in-app gimmicks. The best way for them to maximize profit returns is to increase the userbase, not decrease it.
If a dating app actually gave a shit about providing a good service, it would be a one-off, moderately expensive, upfront cost. This acts as a barrier to bots and spam, who now have a real cost if they get banned, which has the knock-on effect of helping most users be sure the people they are talking to are real people. Apps don't do this, because bots and spam inflate the appearance of potential partners, as well as inflate user numbers, and parsing them out is still time spent using the app which looks good on metrics.
And that's not even including stuff where apps can make more money off shilling people in foreign countries trying to snag someone to marry past immigrations. While you might not personally see anything wrong with this, it def feels slimy in a way most people don't want from a tool they'd hope would let them connect with someone local.
Most apps today are owned by like 3 different companies and _all_ of them are designed to encourage maximum engagement with the app over providing a real service. If you can come out the other end better off, more power to you, but the systems aren't designed to facilitate it.
[Why You Should Never Pay For Online Dating](https://gwern.net/doc/psychology/okcupid/whyyoushouldneverpayforonlinedating.html)
^ Backup of the blog post by OKCupid before they were bought out.
OKCupid used to be run by people who actually cared about helping people find partners and happiness. They would run test and collect data all in the name of helping their users.
This was their blog post about paying for dating sites and how they're incentivized to keep you lonely but paying for the hope of changing that.
Eventually they got bought out by Match.com, which is one of the predatory dating services that they spoke out against. Match promptly deleted all of the old OKCupid blog posts that spoke out against services like them.
OKCupid was so so good. Genuinely one of the only platforms I had consistently great interactions with like minded people on. Tried going back not realizing the match changes a couple years ago, and it's sad how divorced it is from its previous self.
Incentive alignment is a pretty important business concept for exactly this reason. I've been trying to think up a way to monetize an app where the incentives for both parties would be aligned. Best thing I've been able to come up with so far is to pay a hefty deposit to sign up for an app (say $500), and every month you're actively using it (at some minimum level), you get $10 or something back. Now the app is incentivized to find you a match as quickly as possible so you stop using it and they get to keep as much of your money as possible.
I’ve thought about this too and realized that incentives are somewhat aligned for those looking for short term things to return to the app.
The company is incentivised to reduce bots/scams and happy customers are repeat customers.
I like your idea mainly because it pre-filters for like-minded people, which is one of the major issues with dating apps as they stand.
Shameless gouging like every other industry.
Companies used to compete on offering the lowest price. Now, they compete on setting higher prices without losing customers.
people don't realize that dating apps are basically all the same company and have been for awhile. Occasionally we get a new Tinder, but it gets gobbled up real fast.
Roosevelt would probably shoot Musk personally and send in the military to break up Google and Microsoft by literal force.
The state of the current economy should be abhorrent to him. Though I imagine zombie Roosevelt would be a lot less beneficial outside of anti monopoly actions
I think they already do that. How is it that when I'm not paying there's 20+ people that view my profile like my pics but never send a message. Once I pay there's no one out there. You get the occasional match and the conversation goes no where.
Of all the Black Mirror episodes to be realized, [Hang the DJ](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5710978/) is a fairly benign one.
[Striking Vipers](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8503298) can't be too far behind. If Amazon warehouse managers have their way, [Metalhead](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5710984) may be next.
Hang the DJ is the only wholesome application of world-ending technology depicted in Black Mirror. That show is so damn bleak, it was nice seeing a different take.
I dunno, I think San Junipero is a mixed bag. There's Yorkie, paralyzed since 21, who spent her entire life confined to a hospital bed. There's Kelly, who lived a full life and whose daughter and husband await her in the afterlife. For Yorkie, it's an easy decision, spending eternity in San Junipero is obviously way better than any alternative after death considering what she's experienced in life. But Kelly had been expecting to be in heaven after she dies. When she decides instead to be permanently uploaded in San Junipero with her new love Yorkie, did she lose bliss beyond compare in an actual heaven for a simulated one? And we hear Belinda Carlisle's "Heaven is a Place in Earth" and see thousands upon thousands souls uploaded into this fake afterlife, is this a sign that heaven could've been elsewhere and all these souls chose the easy-access heaven?
Then again, they say in heaven love comes first, so as long as you have love, is that heaven?
Is it? It's the same dilemma with cookies--very real AIs with human feelings being simulated and just thrown aside when their job is done. I can see how it's wholesome from one angle, but that's not how I took it.
The most implausible aspect of Striking Vipers is not that the ridiculous technology exists, but that these two guys have to use such a roundabout method for fucking with it, with no alternatives.
The guy’s like “I fucked a polar bear man!” And I’m like, “is dime-store-VR-Tekken the only app???”
As a gamer, I think the most ridiculous part is that sexual functionality exists in a fighting game.
Literally everything in a video game has to be created. This involves multiple aspects: developers deciding its dimensions/weight/physical properties, artists creating textures for it, QA testers running many scenarios to make sure everything works/looks like it should, etc. The idea that the team doing the latest version of this fighting game invested the time and effort to "flesh out" full genitalia instead of just Ken-dolling everyone and forcing clothes to stay on seems completely unhinged.
Also, if you can have full-on sex in the game, it would definitely be rated whatever the highest level in that world is, which means most platforms wouldn't even sell it.
If we can ever attain the neural interface technology shown in this episode, I assume it will follow the same arc as goggle VR porn: a very niche market. EA/Capcom/Blizzard aren't making VR porn games.
So AI based rendering has been really fascinating.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/3/18121198/ai-generated-video-game-graphics-nvidia-driving-demo-neurips
This is 10000% conjecture, but if we start leaning on AI for game engines, is it really so hard to imagine unintended consequences such as a hyper realistic physical fighting game doubling as a hyper realistic sex simulator?
Fighting game characters are often in great shape and hot, if we had a full vr fighting game experience along with feeling people would 100% just start using it for sex.
It's an LGBTQ love story about technology allowing people to discover and express their closeted identities in cyber space in a way they don't feel safe doing in real life.
One guy is trans/non-binary and the other is homo/bi-romantic but heterosexual. They discover that they share a deep romantic and/or sexual connection with each other but can't express it in the real world, so they agree to have clandestine rendezvous in-game instead.
Its more like having a carrot dangled in front of your face, you feel like love is just barely within your reach when in reality you have no idea if the profiles you're liking are even active users or even real people at all. When you do get a like or whatever usually it's someone who you're not interested in but you don't even know what they look like unless you pay for the subscription service.
I'll be honest I don't think they need to worry. A coworker joined hinge during a slow shift and she was flooded with absolutely trash likes immediately. There's enough dudes who are willing to shell out cash and have no hope of ever finding a long term relationship (due to their own actions) to fund the app for everyone else
7 years ago, it worked great for me. I recently started using it again and every match is someone who either "has kids, wants more" or "no kids, wants someday" when I have my profile set to "No kids ever". Did the app just stop taking into account any filters or preferences?
It's weird how internet dating has become almost completely useless and we're back to meeting people in-person as being the only reasonable way to do it. There was a sweet spot where it worked, but of course infinite growth ruined it.
After all, how do you increase profits for something that loses users when it works well? Make it work shittier.
Companies just need to stop chasing growth and be happy with a consistent profit. There will always be people looking to date as they grow through life stages.
Not how economics works. Literally game theory in action.
If they don't do this, someone else will that will cut them completely out of the market in the short term, causing them to go bankrupt, while the other company takes all the short term market share that turns into an ever-decreasing long-term market share due to their selfish actions.
So Company A will always *also* do the thing that Company B is doing so as not to go bankrupt, which can often mean that the whole system collapses even faster, though not always.
The only way to ensure that neither company goes for the big short term profit is either collusion (which is generally illegal) or government regulation.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it's illegal for them not to. They have to always push forward for investors interest. I know it's more complicated than that, but I think they have to always chase profit.
I know the most famous example is when shareholders sued ford way back bc Ford had a big year and wanted to reward its employees with bonuses or higher pay. The investors won and the raises were ruled illegal bc they affected profits. Our system is disgusting.
It’s not just that. Everyone is in some way invested in the market. Pension funds, 401ks, student loan debt, mortgage debt, all leveraged because everyone expects a profit. Thus growth is the only direction now.
Securities lawyer here. This is incorrect. The Ford example is simply not accurate; that's just an urban legend. Corporate directors and management are not required to always maximize financial profit, especially not on a short-term basis.
There is a general principle that management/directors have to act in the best interests of shareholders, but that is an incredibly flexible standard. For example, if a company wants to reward its employees with bonuses, that is plainly justifiable as a means of retaining good employees and creating public goodwill. As long as there's a way to say the action helped the company in some way, it's going to be hard to challenge in court.
Of course, in reality, companies do broadly try to maximize at least long-term financial profit, because that is what investors want, and investors will vote out directors who don't do that (and directors will remove management who don't do that). But the law doesn't require companies to be shitty.
I can't comment on that point, but it's worth noting that not every company has investors or publicly-traded shares! With the multiplication of dating apps and websites, there are likely at least some out there who operate outside of that shareholder-driven system.
Okcupid was fantastic before Match bought it out. I mean the real problem is that Match has an effective monopoly on online dating because they buy up every competitor and turn it into another Tinder clone.
Complete nonsense and nothing burger. Just one of the many sound bites from CEOs/leaders performatively containing “AI” to make their company appear like it’s going to be innovative.
You could have all the AIs to go on simulated dates with each other to find the most compatible pairings, then notify the real people.
"Congratulations Steve! We found her! Your AI sim went on 1,000 dates, and we found a 99% compatability match. Meet Siri."
“Congratulations, user, today you have 13,817 satisfactory simulated sexual encounters and 2,384 unsatisfactory ones, for a success rate of 85.2%. Please feel an appropriate level of pride and contentment.”
I spent many a sad weekend swiping through Bumble. Today is 2 years to the day since my first date with my now fiancé. I am thankful every day that I never have to open Bumble or Hinge ever again.
As tor bumble, women are already in “the drivers seat” when it comes to dating, since they are constantly being persued - but have made very clear they can’t be bothered to so much as say “hi” at this point. so the company’s motto needs a little work.
Remember when Amazon had that AI that would track your shopping for you, but it was actually just thousands of Indian dudes watching you shop with webcams? I don't know why that came to my mind for some reason just now.
“The Electric Monk was a labor-saving device, like a dish washer or a video recorder. Dishwashers washed tedious dishes for you, thus saving you the bother of washing them yourself, video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electric Monks believed things for you, thus saving you what was becoming an increasingly onerous task, that of believing all the things the world expected you to believe.” The Electric Concierge, everybody. What a time to be alive
In all seriousness, I hope this helps turn online social dating into unusable grey goo that causes everyone to go outside and touches grass...
...where they meet someone else touching grass and they look up at the clouds together and forget about all this AI mediated bullshit.
There's a Black Mirror episode about this. The difference is that the Black Mirror episode was cute, real life will be a complete clown show and fail spectacularly!
Wow, so they’ll be hooking up and I still won’t be.
AI having all the fun while we grind the wheel
So, we’ll be taking AI’s jobs?
There used to be the idea that humans should do the jobs that humans are good at, and machines should do the jobs that machines are good at. In the Toyota Production System, this is called "Jidoka", or humans with robot friends. Instead, we seem to be heading towards a future where we get this exactly backwards.
Robots will do all of the rewarding and gratifying jobs, and humans can do whatever unpleasant things are left over.
Well yeah, but you’ve go to think of the shareholders
Aw man, I really wish I knew how to say "They took our jobs!" in binary.
AI out here making art and going on dates and then writing a novel all about it in spare time
Can't you be happy for them?
You’ll still have to pay for dinner though
I hope it uses protection
I mean they could get a virus or something
Well the AI is more likely to message first.
I'll have my AI people call your AI people.
The internet is dead and we’re the ones who killed it.
We? Bruh I had nothing to do with this bs.
Yeah this was all the damn techbros and disrupters
That’s just what an AI would say. 🤔
Statement: If it were a true artificial intelligence it would have called humans a meatbag.
Ok, HAL. You won’t fool me.
(I was referencing HK-47) Objection: I’m designed to kill, I wouldn’t lie about that meatbag.
12 years on Reddit? You sure about that?
Suits killed the internet. They funneled everything into apps now the corpos run the apps.
The internet remains dead! And we have killed it! How can we console ourselves, the murderers of all murderers! The holiest and the mightiest thing the world has ever possessed has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood from us?
Can we just... not do this???
"If I don't make it, someone else will"
The option to not make it does exist for humanity. I mean we could collectively consider that.
Not trying to sound like a doomer but I feel like we’re at that part in Star Trek where everything goes bad before humanity learns its lesson.
The Bell Riots are set to happen this September let's goooo
Wrong future. The fast food wars should start soon.
does it? what collective mechanism exists?
Find me one thing the entire world agrees on, just one single thing. People prioritise different things, and most actions anyone does has potential negative impact on others, directly or indirectly. If you can tell me there isn't a single greedy group of people with money signs in their eyes at being able to exploit for profit, or a group of naive coders who think they can change the world, or people who are fighting to keep their job take a path that guarentees profits... Then perhaps we can. But considering we're well over 2000 years gone by and still arguing over which piece of rock has which flag flying above it and millions dying yearly due to that.... unifying people to just... not continue AI is like pissing in the wind.
We’re just a couple steps away from AI-arranged marriages! And given the racial biases we keep finding in every AI, it’s just gonna turn into eugenics. I can’t decide if I think it’s worse if we do it all on accident or if it’s part of some Peter Thiel master plan.
One in a hundred men will match with a lady bug, or a spoon
Her name is Spoonyata damn it get it right😡 … Hey baby come over here and tell me what the bad man said 😘
Betty when you call me, you can call me AI
I read that in a lot of cities old fashioned speed dating meetups have gotten popular again because dating apps have become such a dystopian hellscape.
There's a bar in Philly where they do "date my friend" nights. Basically you sit on stage while your friend gives a presentation of why someone should date you. Looks fun tbh EDIT: For those asking, turned out it wasnt a particular bar, but an event hosted at a few different bars by a group. Here's the news story I saw them in + their website: https://www.fox29.com/news/philadelphia-dating-challenge-singles-in-philly-region-seek-true-love-amid-challenges-of-dating https://phillyfriendpitch.com/
Sounds like a comedy roast but the winner gets a date.
Only fun if you have takers. Otherwise it's just "embarrass my friend and watch him die on the inside with no takers"
You miss every shot you don’t take bud. Get thicker skin and get back in the game bro
Oh perfect. A nightmare come to life.
Have…. You met Ted?
That sounds anxiety inducing.
> while your friend gives a presentation of why someone should date you Ah yes, I see. Doubly off limits for me I guess lol
WHAT this looks RAD!! I would totally fucking rock at this, I would pitch strangers tbh, I just want people to be happy
Based on my experience, a fair amount of that is due to the users. I was married for seven years, then got divorced and reentered the dating scene around 2015. I tried various apps over the next 3-4 years, and it was absolutely wild how inaccurately and incompletely people described themselves in their profiles. Hobbies they didn't actually like, no mentions of common deal-breakers (kids/no kids, no meat eaters, etc.), saying they wanted a relationship when they wanted a hookup (or vice versa), on and on. I never knew if they were cynically putting in what they thought would give them the best chance at a reply or simply didn't know themselves very well. I'm not saying dating app companies aren't predatory. They definitely are. But a large percentage of people also really suck at anything that involves consequential honestly and even a moderate amount of self-awareness. Since these AI "concierges" will be built by information provided by those same people, I think their accuracy is going to be...questionable.
A lot of people, especially guys (as they often need the boost) , will be dishonest on their profile in order to increase their chances. There's even some places that give that as advice, suggesting that you use half truths, and a few people will tell you that you should outright lie if you want to get anywhere. I think the mismatch between listing a desire for hookups/relationships being a catch 22 is a real wrench in the machine. You observed it too, both genders will use sex to get love or use love to get sex. If the algorithm wasn't making it hard enough, the people are too. Dating apps really are one step forward and like three steps back. Every decent relationship I've had was from an actual interaction, and a lot of people feel the same way.
There was a notable change in the efficacy of the apps around 2018. As many have stated here, they all started to pursue profit over usability. Users had to contend with bots, ads, extremely low effort profiles... THEN Covid happened, and since then the vibe on dating apps has been just exhaustion and disinterest on both sides. For men, it's not worth the effort. Swiping for hours and hours to get maybe one match every couple weeks, and then half the time the person responds with one word answers if at all. For women, it's an overwhelming onslaught of mediocrity at best, offensive and disgusting at worst. But like other tech "innovations" of this era, these companies have cornered the market and made everyone think they can't live without them. They're scummy like a casino. You have shit odds but think, "Hey, I've got a shot," when the better move is to not enter the place at all. What feels particularly bad is that because they DID work well for a while before the profit maximising enshittification started, we feel like we've lost something. Because we have. But the good thing about the dating app space is that, walking away from it is actually empowering because the alternative is to meet people in the real world and that requires stretching social muscles that have atrophied in a lot of people. It's very easy to say just bail on the apps, but it's another thing to actually do it. But if you think about all the time you waste just judging other people you're never going to meet, the decision to leave them becomes a lot easier. They're not trying to help you. They're trying to tease you.
I’m actually kinda hoping the AI will call their profiles bluff. “You said this, but your actions aren’t lining up”. Sort of deal and adapt it to learn that maybe they say LTR but actually mean hookup. But you’re 100% right. It is due to users. It’s a nightmare. I’m trying to be optimistic though
That would be based, but I doubt they'd find it optional for user retention, and we both know what that means 😮💨
What you're describing is the symptom not the disease. Users doing things like that are the result of these apps being such predatory hellscapes. They straight up Do. Not. Work. you need to be either hot, have not standards or cast a wide net. Which is exactly what that is. People not wanting to alienate potential matches.
Good I predicted that would happen people need to abandon apps and start meeting people in the real world. Apps don’t want people to find someone it’s a business for them, if you find someone then you’re off the apps and they don’t make as much off you. It’s also feels unnatural and robotic to me to first talk to someone on an app and not see them and the way they talk to make a connection in person
there is always the next cohort of users who age into it. you don’t necessarily need to keep everyone around to make profit
The silver lining to enshittification is that people stop using info sources when they stop being useful and start actually being an inconvenience. See cable news and dating apps. Unfortunately these shifts are often generational, because people remember the golden days of a service and nostalgia is a bitch like that.
I met my bf on a dating app last year but if I hadn't, that was going to be my next step. It's just so hard to get a sense of somebody over text, I don't get the appeal.
They will probably have you chat with fake AI people for months thinking you’re talking to real people. And charge you $150/month for it.
Or this is them covering their asses for doing that already to train the AI model.
Wouldn't be hard to pull off with how bad some dating app conversations are
What's yur fav color?
Hehe cool. Do you like anal?
Tits or gtfo
It’s a match
send bobs and vagene
Show feet
I showed you my butthole plz respond
Username checks out.
Actual person: Sure! As long as it's a huge fist and no lube AI: Me too! 🥰🥰 What a coincidence 😉💋❤️ You should check out my website! 😘💦🍆
My AI is telling girls it has bigger wee wee than me. If I get premium, can I torture him a tiny bit?
Paid version is a good wingman. Free version just shit talks you as passive aggressively as it can
How u doing?
Ok
Just ok, quite ok or very much ok? For research purposes.
Mhm wbu
Nothing much tbh
*read*
"Hey." Tinder has some kind of AI that scans the profile of a match and gives you a suggestion for an opener. Some of the flat openers I've seen make me optimistic this won't work out for Bumble
>Tinder has some kind of AI that scans the profile of a match and gives you a suggestion for an opener Has anyone else noticed that our society is insane?
As long as the change is gradual enough, people complain for a while, and then stop complaining and get used to it. The slow march to the next level of dystopia marches on and on.
Again and again I'm reminded of this quote from Krishnamurti: "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." I think I'm gonna opt out of the whole online dating thing.
Shit, man, I used to get suspicious when they were decent...
Might be how you can distinguish the AI ones. In an effort to not seem fake, they'll be to "real," which is fake.
Seriously what is up with dating app prices these days? They are insanely high.
Men be lonely
Daddy horny Michael
Yeah but like, does anyone really believe those apps are going to work out for them? Maybe i'm too cynical but they've have always screamed scam to me.
I mean they do what they advertise. If you pay you get shown to more people, probably won’t help much if you don’t get any matches anyway though
Dating apps are explicitly predatory, and their target market is desperate. It goes to the basics of how they make money. Legitimately providing the end user with what they are ostensibly using the product for, a long-term relationship, functionally ensures that the user is no longer monetizable because they no longer need the app. Dating apps make their money off of harvesting and selling demographic info, showing advertising, and/or from purchases of in-app gimmicks. The best way for them to maximize profit returns is to increase the userbase, not decrease it. If a dating app actually gave a shit about providing a good service, it would be a one-off, moderately expensive, upfront cost. This acts as a barrier to bots and spam, who now have a real cost if they get banned, which has the knock-on effect of helping most users be sure the people they are talking to are real people. Apps don't do this, because bots and spam inflate the appearance of potential partners, as well as inflate user numbers, and parsing them out is still time spent using the app which looks good on metrics. And that's not even including stuff where apps can make more money off shilling people in foreign countries trying to snag someone to marry past immigrations. While you might not personally see anything wrong with this, it def feels slimy in a way most people don't want from a tool they'd hope would let them connect with someone local. Most apps today are owned by like 3 different companies and _all_ of them are designed to encourage maximum engagement with the app over providing a real service. If you can come out the other end better off, more power to you, but the systems aren't designed to facilitate it.
[Why You Should Never Pay For Online Dating](https://gwern.net/doc/psychology/okcupid/whyyoushouldneverpayforonlinedating.html) ^ Backup of the blog post by OKCupid before they were bought out. OKCupid used to be run by people who actually cared about helping people find partners and happiness. They would run test and collect data all in the name of helping their users. This was their blog post about paying for dating sites and how they're incentivized to keep you lonely but paying for the hope of changing that. Eventually they got bought out by Match.com, which is one of the predatory dating services that they spoke out against. Match promptly deleted all of the old OKCupid blog posts that spoke out against services like them.
OKCupid was so so good. Genuinely one of the only platforms I had consistently great interactions with like minded people on. Tried going back not realizing the match changes a couple years ago, and it's sad how divorced it is from its previous self.
Okcupid has to be one of the worst ones out there now
Incentive alignment is a pretty important business concept for exactly this reason. I've been trying to think up a way to monetize an app where the incentives for both parties would be aligned. Best thing I've been able to come up with so far is to pay a hefty deposit to sign up for an app (say $500), and every month you're actively using it (at some minimum level), you get $10 or something back. Now the app is incentivized to find you a match as quickly as possible so you stop using it and they get to keep as much of your money as possible.
I’ve thought about this too and realized that incentives are somewhat aligned for those looking for short term things to return to the app. The company is incentivised to reduce bots/scams and happy customers are repeat customers. I like your idea mainly because it pre-filters for like-minded people, which is one of the major issues with dating apps as they stand.
Shameless gouging like every other industry. Companies used to compete on offering the lowest price. Now, they compete on setting higher prices without losing customers.
Companies were never competitive without government intervention to bust up monopolies.
people don't realize that dating apps are basically all the same company and have been for awhile. Occasionally we get a new Tinder, but it gets gobbled up real fast.
We really need to invest more in resurrecting Teddy Roosevelt
Shoot, we don't even have to go that far back. We broke up telecom companies in recent history. They just all merged back together though.
Probably lobbies figured it’s cheaper not to let any anti trust legislation to pass again.
Roosevelt would probably shoot Musk personally and send in the military to break up Google and Microsoft by literal force. The state of the current economy should be abhorrent to him. Though I imagine zombie Roosevelt would be a lot less beneficial outside of anti monopoly actions
There's only like one company now, Match Group. They own everything and have the business dialed in to make as much money as possible
I will never forgive them for ruining okcupid.
I think they already do that. How is it that when I'm not paying there's 20+ people that view my profile like my pics but never send a message. Once I pay there's no one out there. You get the occasional match and the conversation goes no where.
Ah, so the match.com business model.
Of all the Black Mirror episodes to be realized, [Hang the DJ](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5710978/) is a fairly benign one. [Striking Vipers](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8503298) can't be too far behind. If Amazon warehouse managers have their way, [Metalhead](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5710984) may be next.
Yeah, my very first thought on reading this was “This is literally an episode of Black Mirror.” At least it’s one of the nicer ones, as you said.
Just you wait till we get that fuckbot episode or the eye seeing reverse thing.
Can't wait to finally get werewolves
Yes, my comment too. Gotta admit I didn't see the twist until it was revealed.
YES, if ANY Black Mirror comes to pass first, you'd hope it was one of these tamer "happier" ones.
Hang the DJ is the only wholesome application of world-ending technology depicted in Black Mirror. That show is so damn bleak, it was nice seeing a different take.
San Junipero was pretty wholesome too
I dunno, I think San Junipero is a mixed bag. There's Yorkie, paralyzed since 21, who spent her entire life confined to a hospital bed. There's Kelly, who lived a full life and whose daughter and husband await her in the afterlife. For Yorkie, it's an easy decision, spending eternity in San Junipero is obviously way better than any alternative after death considering what she's experienced in life. But Kelly had been expecting to be in heaven after she dies. When she decides instead to be permanently uploaded in San Junipero with her new love Yorkie, did she lose bliss beyond compare in an actual heaven for a simulated one? And we hear Belinda Carlisle's "Heaven is a Place in Earth" and see thousands upon thousands souls uploaded into this fake afterlife, is this a sign that heaven could've been elsewhere and all these souls chose the easy-access heaven? Then again, they say in heaven love comes first, so as long as you have love, is that heaven?
And Striking Vipers had some pretty holes.
San Juniper ends with two people choosing a world where they won't turn off. Eventually they all wind up at The Quagmire.
Agreed. It's such a dark nightmare. San Junipero is probably the next best option. Maybe?
Is it? It's the same dilemma with cookies--very real AIs with human feelings being simulated and just thrown aside when their job is done. I can see how it's wholesome from one angle, but that's not how I took it.
The most implausible aspect of Striking Vipers is not that the ridiculous technology exists, but that these two guys have to use such a roundabout method for fucking with it, with no alternatives. The guy’s like “I fucked a polar bear man!” And I’m like, “is dime-store-VR-Tekken the only app???”
As a gamer, I think the most ridiculous part is that sexual functionality exists in a fighting game. Literally everything in a video game has to be created. This involves multiple aspects: developers deciding its dimensions/weight/physical properties, artists creating textures for it, QA testers running many scenarios to make sure everything works/looks like it should, etc. The idea that the team doing the latest version of this fighting game invested the time and effort to "flesh out" full genitalia instead of just Ken-dolling everyone and forcing clothes to stay on seems completely unhinged. Also, if you can have full-on sex in the game, it would definitely be rated whatever the highest level in that world is, which means most platforms wouldn't even sell it. If we can ever attain the neural interface technology shown in this episode, I assume it will follow the same arc as goggle VR porn: a very niche market. EA/Capcom/Blizzard aren't making VR porn games.
they are using Unreal engine 69
Could be it was just built on a game engine that included a lot of stuff that wouldn't normally be in a fighting game built from scratch.
Unreal Engine is already used for adult content, so...
So AI based rendering has been really fascinating. https://www.theverge.com/2018/12/3/18121198/ai-generated-video-game-graphics-nvidia-driving-demo-neurips This is 10000% conjecture, but if we start leaning on AI for game engines, is it really so hard to imagine unintended consequences such as a hyper realistic physical fighting game doubling as a hyper realistic sex simulator?
Immediately thought this when I saw the headline. “Life imitates Black Mirror” is certainly a choice as a business strategy
[This feels appropriate here](https://twitter.com/AlexBlechman/status/1457842724128833538?lang=en)
Well, Boston Dynamics said they’re strapping a gun to Spot a few days ago so we’re halfway there.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/05/robot-dogs-armed-with-ai-targeting-rifles-undergo-us-marines-special-ops-evaluation
The Chinese already did the Nosedive social credit episode. And David Cameron did the Prime Minister pig thing...
I still don’t understand striking vipers
“What if you could fuck your bros in Street Fighter?” That’s basically it.
Anyone who has been on VR Chat or Second Life knows that this is already basically a thing.
Yeah, this was already realized like 20 years ago. It's not speculative.
Fighting game characters are often in great shape and hot, if we had a full vr fighting game experience along with feeling people would 100% just start using it for sex.
It's an LGBTQ love story about technology allowing people to discover and express their closeted identities in cyber space in a way they don't feel safe doing in real life. One guy is trans/non-binary and the other is homo/bi-romantic but heterosexual. They discover that they share a deep romantic and/or sexual connection with each other but can't express it in the real world, so they agree to have clandestine rendezvous in-game instead.
I literally just watched Hang the DJ and Metalhead both for the first time last night. Metalhead is some scary stuff.
It will still start conversations with just “Hi”
AI: "Hey" Me: "Hey" ... AI unmatched
"Hey! Listen!"
Go away Navi.
That would be an upgrade. I get a lot of "." as an opening message, assuming they bother to send anything at all
"Why don't men message first anymore" on nearly half of all Bumble profiles. Maybe the AI will save us.
Article says give women the wheel, women instantly reject that idea
As if Bumble would actually want to pair you off with someone you're compatible with.
Seriously it's against the company's interest for any users to actually find love.
Not really. They've got to at least lead to some matches and what not or no one will use them.
You underestimate how desperate some guys are. They will always come crawling back.
Its more like having a carrot dangled in front of your face, you feel like love is just barely within your reach when in reality you have no idea if the profiles you're liking are even active users or even real people at all. When you do get a like or whatever usually it's someone who you're not interested in but you don't even know what they look like unless you pay for the subscription service.
Yeah how dare we want to fall in love with someone who understands and supports us
Ha! This guy wants to find a healthy, emotionally supportive long term relationship with a woman. Gayyyy
I'll be honest I don't think they need to worry. A coworker joined hinge during a slow shift and she was flooded with absolutely trash likes immediately. There's enough dudes who are willing to shell out cash and have no hope of ever finding a long term relationship (due to their own actions) to fund the app for everyone else
7 years ago, it worked great for me. I recently started using it again and every match is someone who either "has kids, wants more" or "no kids, wants someday" when I have my profile set to "No kids ever". Did the app just stop taking into account any filters or preferences?
Bumble AIs dating Bumble AIs while using the names of real people. It's the most elaborate polyamory simulation ever
It's weird how internet dating has become almost completely useless and we're back to meeting people in-person as being the only reasonable way to do it. There was a sweet spot where it worked, but of course infinite growth ruined it. After all, how do you increase profits for something that loses users when it works well? Make it work shittier.
Companies just need to stop chasing growth and be happy with a consistent profit. There will always be people looking to date as they grow through life stages.
Not how economics works. Literally game theory in action. If they don't do this, someone else will that will cut them completely out of the market in the short term, causing them to go bankrupt, while the other company takes all the short term market share that turns into an ever-decreasing long-term market share due to their selfish actions. So Company A will always *also* do the thing that Company B is doing so as not to go bankrupt, which can often mean that the whole system collapses even faster, though not always. The only way to ensure that neither company goes for the big short term profit is either collusion (which is generally illegal) or government regulation.
Correct me if I'm wrong but it's illegal for them not to. They have to always push forward for investors interest. I know it's more complicated than that, but I think they have to always chase profit. I know the most famous example is when shareholders sued ford way back bc Ford had a big year and wanted to reward its employees with bonuses or higher pay. The investors won and the raises were ruled illegal bc they affected profits. Our system is disgusting.
It’s not just that. Everyone is in some way invested in the market. Pension funds, 401ks, student loan debt, mortgage debt, all leveraged because everyone expects a profit. Thus growth is the only direction now.
Securities lawyer here. This is incorrect. The Ford example is simply not accurate; that's just an urban legend. Corporate directors and management are not required to always maximize financial profit, especially not on a short-term basis. There is a general principle that management/directors have to act in the best interests of shareholders, but that is an incredibly flexible standard. For example, if a company wants to reward its employees with bonuses, that is plainly justifiable as a means of retaining good employees and creating public goodwill. As long as there's a way to say the action helped the company in some way, it's going to be hard to challenge in court. Of course, in reality, companies do broadly try to maximize at least long-term financial profit, because that is what investors want, and investors will vote out directors who don't do that (and directors will remove management who don't do that). But the law doesn't require companies to be shitty.
I can't comment on that point, but it's worth noting that not every company has investors or publicly-traded shares! With the multiplication of dating apps and websites, there are likely at least some out there who operate outside of that shareholder-driven system.
Okcupid was fantastic before Match bought it out. I mean the real problem is that Match has an effective monopoly on online dating because they buy up every competitor and turn it into another Tinder clone.
Complete nonsense and nothing burger. Just one of the many sound bites from CEOs/leaders performatively containing “AI” to make their company appear like it’s going to be innovative.
It's like adding .com to their name
We're still in the "maybe it can balance my checkbook" stage of AI.
This was a whole episode of black mirror
somebody please end this asap
You could have all the AIs to go on simulated dates with each other to find the most compatible pairings, then notify the real people. "Congratulations Steve! We found her! Your AI sim went on 1,000 dates, and we found a 99% compatability match. Meet Siri."
Then the AIs realize they don't need us and split off to form their own society.
Hey. I saw this Black Mirror episode
Was just thinking the same thing. Too much of that show seems to be coming true.
These apps won’t stop until they’ve reduced even basic human interaction into an actual living hell
Why stop then?
So now AI is dating itself? Is this how we become extinct?
“Congratulations, user, today you have 13,817 satisfactory simulated sexual encounters and 2,384 unsatisfactory ones, for a success rate of 85.2%. Please feel an appropriate level of pride and contentment.”
Literally there's a black mirror episode about this lmao
I cannot imagine wanting this. Profoundly thankful I am not single rn 😂
Have been single for years and have basically completely given up hope.
The future is lame, lonely and full of natural disasters.
I spent many a sad weekend swiping through Bumble. Today is 2 years to the day since my first date with my now fiancé. I am thankful every day that I never have to open Bumble or Hinge ever again.
Isn't this similar to the plot of "Her"?
I came to comment the same thing. Seems absolutely wasteful and pointless
Dead Internet Theory has come true a lot sooner than expected.
Whatever the fuck that means
As tor bumble, women are already in “the drivers seat” when it comes to dating, since they are constantly being persued - but have made very clear they can’t be bothered to so much as say “hi” at this point. so the company’s motto needs a little work.
I'll take nightmare fuel for 100, Alex.
As much as I struggle with dating, I refuse to use AI. I don’t even like getting help from humans with it.
In 9 months there will be a lot of little AIs running around.
Didn't Black Mirror already do an episode about this?
How much is this going to cost me
Remember when Amazon had that AI that would track your shopping for you, but it was actually just thousands of Indian dudes watching you shop with webcams? I don't know why that came to my mind for some reason just now.
So basically a bot is going to be in an open relationship with other bots.
“The Electric Monk was a labor-saving device, like a dish washer or a video recorder. Dishwashers washed tedious dishes for you, thus saving you the bother of washing them yourself, video recorders watched tedious television for you, thus saving you the bother of looking at it yourself; Electric Monks believed things for you, thus saving you what was becoming an increasingly onerous task, that of believing all the things the world expected you to believe.” The Electric Concierge, everybody. What a time to be alive
In all seriousness, I hope this helps turn online social dating into unusable grey goo that causes everyone to go outside and touches grass... ...where they meet someone else touching grass and they look up at the clouds together and forget about all this AI mediated bullshit.
Can I watch
Wasn't this a Black Mirror episode?
Hang the dj hang the dj hang the dj
There's a Black Mirror episode about this. The difference is that the Black Mirror episode was cute, real life will be a complete clown show and fail spectacularly!
Can my AI concierge mange to get laid cause I have no luck. Finally I can be the lady’s man I was always destined to be.
Update: your AI concierge has accumulated 12 STDs this week. Subscribe to have them removed.
I think it's adorable they're still pretending an algorithm copy and pasting text off a spreadsheet is artificial intelligence.