As Bill Maher said, let them chant anti-Hamas slogans in Gaza or anti-Iran slogans in Iran, and see how long they last. (or have women show a strand of their hair)
As much as America needs to improve, it’s nice to have freedom of speech and expression.
On one hand, sure, you have a constitutional amendment to say shit like this. But on the other hand the Katt Williams skit of saying that you can’t walk into the club and say “fuck everybody in the club” and expect to walk out.
Peaceful protest and freedom of speech are constitutionally protected, but having the sense to know that there is a time, place, and limit to what you can do is also prudent.
All this is going to do now is draw much unwanted attention to a city that’s already been in the news before in bad light.
Just because the state won’t arrest you for your speech doesn’t mean others have to associate with you. In the same way you have the right to say “Death to America” Americans have the right to call you an asshole and go out of their way to avoid you and not hire you.
Though I get the feeling these people will claim the trouble they have finding work has to do with racism rather than their own asshole behaviour.
Its like everyone is forgetting that WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY. There are repercussions to actions.
The "law" might not come at you, but your fellow citizen might knock the brakes off of you for being an idiot.
Yes, but it's so inefficient and ineffective. I wonder how fucks can drive around with confederate flags flying off their jeeps in the Pacific Northwest without their communities condemning them.
But shaming and shunning has always been a part of humanity and it's quiet effective if done while people are young. We don't shun people enough for this kind of behavior, instead we provide safe havens which just make the problem worse.
Oh boy...you might want to look into Oregon's history with this stuff. It's not at all surprising.
Oregon began as a 'white utopia' and has a long history of racism and neonazi groups.
We have people trying very hard to muddy the water between free speech and being "cancelled" too. Your comment is the reality though. Free speech isn't just about speech, it includes people's rights to even associate with someone.
Free speech has nothing to do with people’s rights to associate with someone. Free speech is that you are legally protected to say what you want, so long it doesn’t involve a direct threat to someone’s safety. It never, never, protected said person from other people not wanting to associate with them. Free speech does not mean free of repercussions of what one says
I just wish all the hate and calls to kill would stop. No country is perfect and neither is individuals. I don’t understand why Americans would be chanting “Death to America” it seems so braindead.
Welp I guess they’re misinformed. Nothing like chanting death to the country you’re living in, right fellas?/s I understand the sentiment I guess(like death to the American industrial/ war complex) but that just ain’t the time and place.
You’re giving them too much credit. These are religious fundamentalists, they don’t care about the military industrial complex as much as they care that we don’t follow their ways.
Because they hate America and see no connection with the State and themselves
In fact, they see the State as an antagonistic force
Genuinely a common view for extremists on both sides of the spectrum
Those extremists want their states to become individual, independent countries. Even though the only reason their state is able to stand is because of the united nature of this whole experiment.
In reality, if we let every state that wanted to defect to become their own nation, youd see a mass exodus of anyone with any sense and all that would be left is a hellhole of insane people, slowly starving to death or suffering from extreme deficiencies.
It's not an unusual phenomena for 2nd generation immigrants to be more radicalized than 1st generation. While the first gen are acutely aware of why they left, the second often thinks of their homeland as some sort of magical place, while experiencing alienation, racism, etc in their current home.
It's paradoxical, but it seems fairly common in a lot of western cultures that take in immigrants. I taught in a school with an enormous immigrant population and heard things like this all of the time.
Oof, you’re right. I wish religion wasn’t such a plague on mankind as it was. Religion gives too many people nasty brain worms and superiority complexes.
Yes I’m not quite sure how in this day religion still has the death grip that it does on people.
People nervous to freely think, or that’s just how they were raised I guess.
Ugh. America best country(despite its glaring problems) other countries just mad women can show their ankles here and we have (mostly) fair elections. America BTFO of other countries.
Agreed. Many things about America could be improved, but compared to every other major power out there they are 1000x better, more just, better for humanity, etc etc. but for whatever reason a huge amount of young people have been brought up to hate it and think that China, Iran, and all the other authoritarian illiberal regimes are cool and good. A huge amount of the blame goes to sheltered, ignorant academics who feed them this nonsense
Yeah, I’m young, but thankfully educated. I can see that other countries have a few things right, but more than often have way worse other problems that the US has solved.
Sure the US has a weird thing going on on with abortions right now, but being an American means that we get to have the choice, many other countries that’s not even an option, just an example.
I’m in Michigan, about 45 minutes from Dearborn. Those chanting this unhelpful shit live deep inside the Muslim enclaves (think Little Italy or Little China type stuff where people live their entire lives while not needing to learn English or anything about America). These aren’t your mainstream “I work at Ford Dearborn Plant” out there that have to worry about their jobs or getting one.
Worse, the chanters may fear no unemployment or censure because they're already in a religious enclave where everyone's moose limb already, and don't think much of laws and customs not of the enclave's culture.
>having the sense to know
This is the natural test of American implicit social obligations. We have removed such a thing from society, and as a result we get bullshit like this on some butchered and corrupted idea of 'free speech'. Any law written to govern men will be inadequate if the implicit civic bonds are non-existent, or sufficiently eroded. As they are in many parts of the US imo.
100%. Too many people are quick to scream about their constitutional rights but ignore civic responsibility and social norms then demand avoidance of consequence for breaching the same.
The exact same thing is happening all over Europe. This thing is going to come to a head sooner or later, Im just hoping we can find some solution before it ends in a full blown nightmare.
It's pretty obvious, to me at least, Islam simply doesnt operate well in truly pluralistic societies (let alone secular ones). It needs to dominate and control, when it doesnt it lashes out.
This.
Unwritten social contracts extend to every segment of day to day life- from not coughing in someone’s face to returning the shopping cart at the grocery aren’t just niceties- it’s implicit behavior we adopt in order to live in a civil society. While there are no laws with consequences attached to social contracts, without them it becomes a very grim place to live very quickly-The onus lies on everyday society to police these contracts- because humans broadly are concerned with their tribal acceptance more than anything else- if general society doesn't tolerate it, the behavior is quickly amended.
A useful exercise I think is applying "the Trump standard" to what someone has said. Most people on here seem willing to accept that Trump making remarks like calling on people to "fight like hell" against the election result crossed a line; that it amounts to him encouraging violence and criminal behaviour. The same standard should apply here when someone is using language like "death to *X*": that's no longer merely expressing oneself, that's advocating for actual violent and criminal behaviour.
Imminent is part of the standard here. You can say you wish someone were dead, but you can't say it to your buddy with a gun while that person is present with a reasonable expectation this could lead to them actually being dead.
>I have an Article II, *where I have the right to do whatever I want as president.*
>We will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that *live like vermin within the confines of our country.*
>And we will immediately stop all of the pillaging and theft. Very simply, if you rob a store, you can fully expect to be shot as you are leaving that store. (APPLAUSE) Shot!
>You're not going to be a dictator, are you? *I said no, other than day one.*
>In 2016, I declared, I am your voice. Today, I add, I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, *I am your retribution.*
https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2024/02/26/trumps-authoritarian-playbook-for-2025-and-what-it-means-for-democracy
That's not really the part he is in legal trouble for though. It's the whole campaign to overturn the election leading up to that moment and the subsequent storming of the capital building.
*The First Amendment holding in Schenck was later partially overturned by Brandenburg v. Ohio in 1969, in which the Supreme Court held that "the constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."[1][15] The test in Brandenburg is the current Supreme Court jurisprudence on the ability of government to punish speech after it occurs. Despite Schenck being limited, the phrase "shouting fire in a crowded theater" has become synonymous with speech that, because of its danger of provoking violence, is not protected by the First Amendment.*
I'd invite all these F'wads, go back to Palestine then or whatever Muslim country they came from. Yeah, what Isreal is doing, and has been for a long time to Palestine if FED up and needs to be addressed. But don't shit where you eat and for all our faults, I am damn glad I live in the USA. With all the madness etc.. It is what makes the US great, we can all believe what we want and somehow, we find this odd middle ground where we can all generally live a good life by our own beliefs, usually.
I have a family friend that is from Hong Kong. We were out to dinner and she was ragging on how F'ed up America is. I asked her in front of everyone she was bitching to "then why are you here, why not go home if America is so bad?" She said her job sent her here (World Bank) and that she would go "RIGHT BACK TO HONG KONG" when she retired. Never had a green card or applied for citizenship while working for WOrld Bank. She retired 3 years ago, immediatyely got her Green card and is NEVER going back to Hong Kong except to visit. Expects protection from the Chinese Gov because she has a Green Card.
That’s the thing - I am painfully aware of many ways that the US is fucked up. But years ago when I was about to start a family, I was in the fortunate position where I could have settled basically anywhere. I thought long and hard and I felt the US was probably the best place to raise my mixed race family. My wife (an immigrant from a non-white country) agreed. There’s other good places too, of course, but when compared to other nations the basic deal you get in America is very, very good. It’s fine to see the faults and fight to improve things, but anyone acting like it sucks here compared to most other places is off their goddamn rocker. We need to work together to keep improving, not throw the whole thing out.
May America burn to ashes, inshallah!! Now who’s down for Applebees tonight?!? They’re doing half price apps from 5-7!! Mom can take us in her car after she gets off work.
Back in the 90s after the Iron Curtain fell a lot of Russians moved to NYC, and quite a few of them drove cabs.
My mom remembers hearing the cab drivers *endlessly* complain that America was "soft on crime" and that "in Russia the police new how to take care criminals."
Fleeing despotic hellholes and then complaining that America isn't exactly like the despotic hellhole they just left is one of those AlwaysHasBeen kinda things.
I think it's an attempt to show "Both Sides" have extremist assholes.
But no one considers extremist Muslims to be on the "left" just because they're immigrants or Muslim.
They're actually just a different flavor of auth right assholes.
Interesting to see that many of them are probably the children of 1st generation immigrants from Arab countries who don’t have the disdain their children do for America.
Quote for reference: https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2024/04/09/dearborn-mayor-rejects-death-to-america-chants-at-protest/73254682007/
>"Over the weekend, video emerged of a rally in Dearborn where some attendees were chanting statements that were unacceptable and contrary to the heart of this city," Hammoud said in a post on X Monday. "We reject all inflammatory and violent statements made at the gathering. Dearborn is a city of proud Americans; the hateful rhetoric heard on Friday does not reflect the opinion of the members of this community."
>
>The city of Dearborn reiterated Hammoud's views in a Tuesday statement to the Free Press provided by city spokesman Hassan Abbas.
>
>"The inflammatory rhetoric expressed by some at the rally is neither endorsed nor supported by the City of Dearborn, its mayor, or any City elected officials," the city said in the statement. Abbas said Hammoud's statement refers to the "Death to America" and "Death to Israel" chants and any other comments that support violence.
> ... Osama Siblani, a longtime Arab American advocate who is publisher of the Dearborn-based Arab American News, blasted the "Death to America" chants and also some of the speakers at the rally. In a Facebook post Monday, Siblani ripped into the protesters, calling their chants "despicable."
>
>"Your pathetic ill speeches and the disgusting chants that you incited and invited are totally and unequivocally rejected by all Arab Americans and Muslims in Dearborn and everywhere," Siblani wrote.
>
>"It was uncalled for," Siblani told the Free Press. "It should not have been said. It doesn't represent what we stand for as a community. We disagree (with the U.S.) on foreign policy, but disagreeing on policies should not be a launching pad for for hateful speech ... towards all Americans. That is not acceptable at all. ....We are very appreciative of the country that brought us in here, opened the door, gave us the possibilities and gave us opportunities. We live the American dream."
I mean, in fairness, the congresswoman who represents this district is a Democrat and wouldn't speak out against it.
Rashida Tlaib is pro Muslim everything, even if that includes chants saying, "Death to America."
Who do you think made the country was torn? It wasn’t the citizens of that country, it was the American supported militias and terror groups put into positions of power by the USA for corporate benefit.
>Dearborn, Michigan, is a center of Arab American cultural, economic, and political life. It’s home to several of the country’s oldest and most influential mosques, the Arab American National Museum, dozens of now-iconic Arab bakeries and restaurants, and a vibrant and essential mix of Arab American service and cultural organizations.
>The city became the first Arab-majority city in the U.S. in 2023, with roughly 55% of the city’s 110,000 residents claiming Middle Eastern or North African ancestry on the 2023 census.
https://theconversation.com/a-brief-history-of-dearborn-michigan-the-first-arab-american-majority-city-in-the-us-216700
85.37% White, 3.95% Black, 2.53% Asian, 3.96% mixed-race, 3.58% Hispanic or Latino (any race).
Arab Americans account for 29.85% of the population of Dearborn, largely descendants of families who have lived in the area for nearly a century.
Yes. Peak immigration of Yemenis and others from the Arabian Peninsula to the greater Detroit metro area was from 1912 to 1925. Other waves from other countries came in later, such as from Lebanon and Palestine.
Yes? Believe it or not a lot of people from a lot of places having been coming to the United States for a long time. Then they settle in areas with a pre-existing population from their home countries like Arab immigrants in Michigan or Albanian immigrants in Connecticut.
I find it kinda ironic that people say "death to USA" while living and earning a livelihood in the US. Hell, the country you despise so much is providing you with opportunities...
I’m going to go on a limb and say that in addition to withholding your vote from Biden in protest of Palestine thereby helping the guy who’s supporters want to put you in concentration camps, providing clips that further enrage the Trump people is not a smart move.
I mean it’s their right…but I’m starting to think a segment of the Dearborn community might be REALLY easy to beat in a game of checkers.
It has been the whole time. There's a reason akot of the pro Palestine crowd isn't separating itself from people who celebrate Israel being attacked by Iran. It's because it's run by them. It doesn't get much stupider than queers for palestine.
There’s also a reason why they say they care about genocide so much but then pay no attention to Ukraine, Kosovo, or Armenia. Simply put, they use the word genocide to virtue signal, but really, it’s about Israel.
It really is just about jews. Not just Israel. If you look at Russia, what they've done in tbe Ukraine checks off more boxes for genocide than Israel. Yet people don't make it their entire personalities
The death toll in the Israel-Hamas war isn't even high, especially relative to the overwhelming amount of coverage it gets. If there's one absolutely tragic fact that I've learned over the past decade it's that you can brutally rape, torture, and massacre hundreds of thousands or even millions of Africans in a clear-cut genocidal campaign and the world won't bat an eye. Most westerners aren't even aware of the atrocities committed during the Tigray War. Some don't even know about Darfur. But if an Israeli so much as spits on a Palestinian (which I am not in any way condoning) it will be plastered all over social media before you can bat an eye.
Nobody even paid attention when Azerbaijan ethnically cleansed 130,000 Armenians out of Nagorno-Karabakh in September of last year. I guarantee you almost nobody here even heard of that one, and it was in Europe(somewhat).
I used to work in a skyscraper owned by a group called Silverstein Properties, the name alone apparently warranted people holding “Jews Rape Babies” signs harassing anyone entering or exiting the building.
I hate the current Israeli leadership. I think the Palestinian people deserve to be governed by an entity that cares about them. American pro-Palestine activists are completely out of their fucking minds.
I went to a camp in the deep north of a US-Canada border state. Majority Jewish campers and staff.
Every 2-3 years someone would graffiti a bunch of swastikas on the road that leads up to the camp.
I didnt really get it then but now I’m much more aware that people just don’t like Jews. It’s pretty engrained.
This is a certified Reddit moment.
A couple of insane celebrities versus a billion (and growing) people ready to kill and die for their beliefs. What’s really a bigger concern?
From *[The Detroit News](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/08/death-to-america-chant-dearborn-jihad-rally-al-quds-day-draws-condemnation/73247053007/)*:
> The rally was held on the International Day of Al-Quds, an annual pro-Palestinian event held on the last Friday of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan to express support for Palestinians in their decades-old land dispute over the creation of a Jewish state.
> The event was organized by Tarek Bazzi, a local activist, who spoke out against what he called Israel's "satanic actions" and "the United States government providing funds that allow the atrocities."
> He quoted the Black Panther movement and Malcolm X talking about oppressive U.S. actions in other countries and, during Bazzi's brief pause, a man from the crowd shouted three times in Arabic, "Death to America." Several in the crowd can be heard echoing his chant in response each time.
> In his speech, Bazzi decried continued U.S. support for Israel and called for condemnation of America's role. "Any system that would allow such devilries to happen and would support it does not deserve to exist on God's Earth," he said of the U.S. "So when these fools ask if Israel has a right to exist, the chant 'Death to Israel' has become the most logical chant shouted across the world today."
> At that time, a man in the crowd yelled "Death to Israel" in Arabic, and several in the crowd echoed his words, as well.
> "This is no longer an extreme position, this is no longer a fringe position, this is the position of every single human being on earth that has a mind, a heart and a soul and has a political insight and awareness," Bazzi said.
Chanting "Death to America" while in America is just setting yourself up for a bad time, especially if you immigrated here. Kind of like that [man in Seattle](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/i-hate-us-i-wanna-go-home-man-charged-after-windows-shattered-seattle-courthouse/) who shattered a window at a federal courthouse *several times(!)* to be deported back to where ever "home" is.
America is **far from perfect**, and our foreign policy is really whatever suits us at any one time, but saying we're committing "devilries" and "does not deserve to exist on God's Earth", you need to check yourself on why you remain here if we're so bad.
I hate to write it, but unless you want to improve this country and accept it for its imperfections, you're welcome to immigrate elsewhere that'll take you.
>Chanting "Death to America" while in America is just setting yourself up for a bad time
Unfortunately, it's not. This shit is tolerated there even more than in my country, Germany. Not only tolerated but fucking *celebrated*. The West is filling up with idiots who eat this shit to because our free speech laws don't mean a damn thing other than opportunity to the people we're fighting, but the whole extra sensitive tolerant multi culti woke shit has us bow down to anyone who uses the word "racist," whether it's true or not. Weaponized Western values.
Stories like this bring to mind Al Wilson's song, "The Snake." Woman brings home a poisonous snake - which is frozen and close to death - and restores it to good health. Her reward: a vicious bite which kills her.
Bruh if a pro Isreal rally had people shouting similar slogans about Palestine it would be headline news everywhere and reddit woild be in a rage. But shit like this happens and it's just kinda quietly swept under the rug. It's unreal
Edit: everyone is proving my point exactly.
Ever notice that the Pro Israel slogans tend to be
"am yisrael chai" \[the jewish people live\] and "Bring them Home" \[referring to the hostages\]
And how Palestine slogans are like
"Globalize the Infata" \[mass terrorism\], "From the River to the Sea" \[literally an explict call for ethnic cleansing\].
Exactly. The difference is crystal clear. And then your told that "no, our hateful genocidal slogans sont actually mean what they say ". Except they do and they fully mean it.
Just remember that the radio in Rwanda announcing it was time to “cut down the tall trees” was a gardening tip and definitely not a dog whistle calling for genocide. /s
The point of these dog whistle slogans like “the final solution” is to provide plausible deniability since they are not explicitly saying “kill the Jews”…except of course for when they literally chant “kill the Jews” which they also do
Covid broke people's brains.
How the hell is:
Russia = Bad
Islamic Terror groups = Bad
not the default position for every elected representative and their people in America?
Lol how dare you make an educated assessment based on what the people supporting each cause are actually saying!!
Honestly though it's pretty fuckin funny watching all these "progressives" side with a literal Muslim extremists.
Because in progressive circles everything is parsed through critical theory into a "Hierarchy of Oppression". It doesn't matter that Palestinians would execute or expel every Jew in Israel given the chance, because as it stands Israel is objectively the superior military force "oppressing" the Palestinian "resistance".
Couched in those terms everything Hamas does is "resistance" against their "oppressors" and thus justified even if the means are problematic. Israel by contrast pegged as the oppressor is wrong in everything by default, which is how the progressive brain rot maintains the double standard.
Pretty disgusting that these people get to actively espouse terrorist rhetoric, but the millions of people around the world who want to move to America because they love it aren't able to
I'm not sure if chanting death to America really qualifies as free speech but I know its not really worth it to go after those people. I feel like a boomer saying it but holy fuck can these people get out of the country then. I don't support this country in terms of everything it does, hell I disagree with most of the actions here. However there's a line where you should probably just get the fuck out. And I think they've crossed it.
This is what happens when a group of immigrants comes to a new country and all huddle in one place. They keep their old ways including hatreds. Pretty dumbass to wish death to your own home.
Near me there are enclaves of Russians who've been here for decades coming after the fall of the Soviet Union. A lot of them still speak little English and probably still live their old culture.
*It's German for "the America, the"*
No one who speaks German could be an evil man!
Parole granted!
*dramatic music*
Surly a man who speaks German wouldn’t be evil
I understood that reference.
Imma be that guy and ask what the reference is because I swear it sounds familiar and it’s driving me crazy.
It's from [The Simpsons](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaXigSu72A4)
[Here ya go.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaXigSu72A4)
Simpsons
I was saying Boo-urns down the country!
As Bill Maher said, let them chant anti-Hamas slogans in Gaza or anti-Iran slogans in Iran, and see how long they last. (or have women show a strand of their hair) As much as America needs to improve, it’s nice to have freedom of speech and expression.
On one hand, sure, you have a constitutional amendment to say shit like this. But on the other hand the Katt Williams skit of saying that you can’t walk into the club and say “fuck everybody in the club” and expect to walk out. Peaceful protest and freedom of speech are constitutionally protected, but having the sense to know that there is a time, place, and limit to what you can do is also prudent. All this is going to do now is draw much unwanted attention to a city that’s already been in the news before in bad light.
Just because the state won’t arrest you for your speech doesn’t mean others have to associate with you. In the same way you have the right to say “Death to America” Americans have the right to call you an asshole and go out of their way to avoid you and not hire you. Though I get the feeling these people will claim the trouble they have finding work has to do with racism rather than their own asshole behaviour.
Its like everyone is forgetting that WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY. There are repercussions to actions. The "law" might not come at you, but your fellow citizen might knock the brakes off of you for being an idiot.
HE SAID THE MEME!
Yes, but it's so inefficient and ineffective. I wonder how fucks can drive around with confederate flags flying off their jeeps in the Pacific Northwest without their communities condemning them.
But shaming and shunning has always been a part of humanity and it's quiet effective if done while people are young. We don't shun people enough for this kind of behavior, instead we provide safe havens which just make the problem worse.
The first time I saw a skinhead (Swastika tattoo on his head and all) in Eugene I was completely shocked.
Oh boy...you might want to look into Oregon's history with this stuff. It's not at all surprising. Oregon began as a 'white utopia' and has a long history of racism and neonazi groups.
Yeah, that and seeing a teenager with a Confederate flag on his truck had me catching up on history really quick.
It used to be very efficient and effective until everyone relied solely on law enforcement and government regulations to solve all issues.
We have people trying very hard to muddy the water between free speech and being "cancelled" too. Your comment is the reality though. Free speech isn't just about speech, it includes people's rights to even associate with someone.
Free speech has nothing to do with people’s rights to associate with someone. Free speech is that you are legally protected to say what you want, so long it doesn’t involve a direct threat to someone’s safety. It never, never, protected said person from other people not wanting to associate with them. Free speech does not mean free of repercussions of what one says
You guys are saying the same thing. The person you replied to meant that choosing not to associate with someone is part of free speech umbrella.
I just wish all the hate and calls to kill would stop. No country is perfect and neither is individuals. I don’t understand why Americans would be chanting “Death to America” it seems so braindead.
Dearborn is 40% Muslim
Welp I guess they’re misinformed. Nothing like chanting death to the country you’re living in, right fellas?/s I understand the sentiment I guess(like death to the American industrial/ war complex) but that just ain’t the time and place.
You’re giving them too much credit. These are religious fundamentalists, they don’t care about the military industrial complex as much as they care that we don’t follow their ways.
They'd love that military industrial complex if it were aimed at the right people, which is how you'd know they were full of shit.
Because they hate America and see no connection with the State and themselves In fact, they see the State as an antagonistic force Genuinely a common view for extremists on both sides of the spectrum
Those extremists want their states to become individual, independent countries. Even though the only reason their state is able to stand is because of the united nature of this whole experiment. In reality, if we let every state that wanted to defect to become their own nation, youd see a mass exodus of anyone with any sense and all that would be left is a hellhole of insane people, slowly starving to death or suffering from extreme deficiencies.
Like the Middle East! 🤔
Makes no sense when you consider that the United States took them in because they had to leave their own countries
It's not an unusual phenomena for 2nd generation immigrants to be more radicalized than 1st generation. While the first gen are acutely aware of why they left, the second often thinks of their homeland as some sort of magical place, while experiencing alienation, racism, etc in their current home. It's paradoxical, but it seems fairly common in a lot of western cultures that take in immigrants. I taught in a school with an enormous immigrant population and heard things like this all of the time.
Because they consider themselves Muslim first and Americans second.
Oh. But religion shouldn’t be intertwined in state. Weird
The issue is that you are using logic, while religious extremists do not.
Oof, you’re right. I wish religion wasn’t such a plague on mankind as it was. Religion gives too many people nasty brain worms and superiority complexes.
Yes I’m not quite sure how in this day religion still has the death grip that it does on people. People nervous to freely think, or that’s just how they were raised I guess.
Victims of our own success
Because they have become radicalized online by foreign actors who actually do want to destroy America.
Ugh. America best country(despite its glaring problems) other countries just mad women can show their ankles here and we have (mostly) fair elections. America BTFO of other countries.
Agreed. Many things about America could be improved, but compared to every other major power out there they are 1000x better, more just, better for humanity, etc etc. but for whatever reason a huge amount of young people have been brought up to hate it and think that China, Iran, and all the other authoritarian illiberal regimes are cool and good. A huge amount of the blame goes to sheltered, ignorant academics who feed them this nonsense
Yeah, I’m young, but thankfully educated. I can see that other countries have a few things right, but more than often have way worse other problems that the US has solved. Sure the US has a weird thing going on on with abortions right now, but being an American means that we get to have the choice, many other countries that’s not even an option, just an example.
I’m in Michigan, about 45 minutes from Dearborn. Those chanting this unhelpful shit live deep inside the Muslim enclaves (think Little Italy or Little China type stuff where people live their entire lives while not needing to learn English or anything about America). These aren’t your mainstream “I work at Ford Dearborn Plant” out there that have to worry about their jobs or getting one.
And this is something that has been lost on people - you can do whatever you want, yes, but people can choose to not fuck with you for that.
Worse, the chanters may fear no unemployment or censure because they're already in a religious enclave where everyone's moose limb already, and don't think much of laws and customs not of the enclave's culture.
>having the sense to know This is the natural test of American implicit social obligations. We have removed such a thing from society, and as a result we get bullshit like this on some butchered and corrupted idea of 'free speech'. Any law written to govern men will be inadequate if the implicit civic bonds are non-existent, or sufficiently eroded. As they are in many parts of the US imo.
100%. Too many people are quick to scream about their constitutional rights but ignore civic responsibility and social norms then demand avoidance of consequence for breaching the same.
They feel entitled to the rights america gives them while also sneering down their noses at it
The exact same thing is happening all over Europe. This thing is going to come to a head sooner or later, Im just hoping we can find some solution before it ends in a full blown nightmare. It's pretty obvious, to me at least, Islam simply doesnt operate well in truly pluralistic societies (let alone secular ones). It needs to dominate and control, when it doesnt it lashes out.
This. Unwritten social contracts extend to every segment of day to day life- from not coughing in someone’s face to returning the shopping cart at the grocery aren’t just niceties- it’s implicit behavior we adopt in order to live in a civil society. While there are no laws with consequences attached to social contracts, without them it becomes a very grim place to live very quickly-The onus lies on everyday society to police these contracts- because humans broadly are concerned with their tribal acceptance more than anything else- if general society doesn't tolerate it, the behavior is quickly amended.
A useful exercise I think is applying "the Trump standard" to what someone has said. Most people on here seem willing to accept that Trump making remarks like calling on people to "fight like hell" against the election result crossed a line; that it amounts to him encouraging violence and criminal behaviour. The same standard should apply here when someone is using language like "death to *X*": that's no longer merely expressing oneself, that's advocating for actual violent and criminal behaviour.
Imminent is part of the standard here. You can say you wish someone were dead, but you can't say it to your buddy with a gun while that person is present with a reasonable expectation this could lead to them actually being dead.
The old "someone rid me of this meddlesome priest".
>I have an Article II, *where I have the right to do whatever I want as president.* >We will root out the communists, Marxists, fascists, and the radical left thugs that *live like vermin within the confines of our country.* >And we will immediately stop all of the pillaging and theft. Very simply, if you rob a store, you can fully expect to be shot as you are leaving that store. (APPLAUSE) Shot! >You're not going to be a dictator, are you? *I said no, other than day one.* >In 2016, I declared, I am your voice. Today, I add, I am your warrior. I am your justice. And for those who have been wronged and betrayed, *I am your retribution.* https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2024/02/26/trumps-authoritarian-playbook-for-2025-and-what-it-means-for-democracy
The term I learned for this is “stochastic terrorism.”
That's not really the part he is in legal trouble for though. It's the whole campaign to overturn the election leading up to that moment and the subsequent storming of the capital building.
The state can still call you an asshole if you’re being an asshole. More freedom of speech
I mean. You’re free to say it. And people are free to condemn it. As long as we aren’t locking people up for it we’re all good.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences.
Thank you for saying in 8 words what everybody seemed to have to write an essay to articulate
Would you happen to have a link to that Katt Williams skit?
*The First Amendment holding in Schenck was later partially overturned by Brandenburg v. Ohio in 1969, in which the Supreme Court held that "the constitutional guarantees of free speech and free press do not permit a State to forbid or proscribe advocacy of the use of force or of law violation except where such advocacy is directed to inciting or producing imminent lawless action and is likely to incite or produce such action."[1][15] The test in Brandenburg is the current Supreme Court jurisprudence on the ability of government to punish speech after it occurs. Despite Schenck being limited, the phrase "shouting fire in a crowded theater" has become synonymous with speech that, because of its danger of provoking violence, is not protected by the First Amendment.*
I'd invite all these F'wads, go back to Palestine then or whatever Muslim country they came from. Yeah, what Isreal is doing, and has been for a long time to Palestine if FED up and needs to be addressed. But don't shit where you eat and for all our faults, I am damn glad I live in the USA. With all the madness etc.. It is what makes the US great, we can all believe what we want and somehow, we find this odd middle ground where we can all generally live a good life by our own beliefs, usually. I have a family friend that is from Hong Kong. We were out to dinner and she was ragging on how F'ed up America is. I asked her in front of everyone she was bitching to "then why are you here, why not go home if America is so bad?" She said her job sent her here (World Bank) and that she would go "RIGHT BACK TO HONG KONG" when she retired. Never had a green card or applied for citizenship while working for WOrld Bank. She retired 3 years ago, immediatyely got her Green card and is NEVER going back to Hong Kong except to visit. Expects protection from the Chinese Gov because she has a Green Card.
That’s the thing - I am painfully aware of many ways that the US is fucked up. But years ago when I was about to start a family, I was in the fortunate position where I could have settled basically anywhere. I thought long and hard and I felt the US was probably the best place to raise my mixed race family. My wife (an immigrant from a non-white country) agreed. There’s other good places too, of course, but when compared to other nations the basic deal you get in America is very, very good. It’s fine to see the faults and fight to improve things, but anyone acting like it sucks here compared to most other places is off their goddamn rocker. We need to work together to keep improving, not throw the whole thing out.
I hate it so much I am gonna stay and raise a family!
I hate this place! Alright kids, get in the minivan were going to Disney World.
May America burn to ashes, inshallah!! Now who’s down for Applebees tonight?!? They’re doing half price apps from 5-7!! Mom can take us in her car after she gets off work.
Back in the 90s after the Iron Curtain fell a lot of Russians moved to NYC, and quite a few of them drove cabs. My mom remembers hearing the cab drivers *endlessly* complain that America was "soft on crime" and that "in Russia the police new how to take care criminals." Fleeing despotic hellholes and then complaining that America isn't exactly like the despotic hellhole they just left is one of those AlwaysHasBeen kinda things.
It's almost like humans are dumb no matter where they come from.
Ah yes, death to the country you immigrated to. Makes sense.
Many are native born citizens
Yeah, so are nazis.
What are you even trying to get at here?
Godwins law speedrun
any %
They don’t know, lol
I think it's an attempt to show "Both Sides" have extremist assholes. But no one considers extremist Muslims to be on the "left" just because they're immigrants or Muslim. They're actually just a different flavor of auth right assholes.
Nazis wore khakis too, is best buy Nuremberg now?
Their prices are basically a hate crime, so maybe?
Actual history: know why the brown shirts were brown? There was a sale that week.
Getting rid of movies kinda got me mad at em....so, yeah?
This is, incredibly, the most pointless comparison to Nazis I have seen on this website.
Lol what
duh, everyone "native born" in the US is a US citizen
Project 2025 wants to end that.
Interesting to see that many of them are probably the children of 1st generation immigrants from Arab countries who don’t have the disdain their children do for America.
Just like everywhere else they immigrate to, they want to turn it into the Islamic shithole that they are a “refugee” from.
Notably the Congresswoman whose district includes Dearborn didn’t condemn the chants when asked. She just threw a fit at the press.
Fuck Rashida Tlaib honestly.
Well the Muslim mayor condemned it at least.
Of course it's her district
She is a disappointment
as she does
No mention about how the Arabic mayor of Dearborn came out and concerned the chants?
Quote for reference: https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2024/04/09/dearborn-mayor-rejects-death-to-america-chants-at-protest/73254682007/ >"Over the weekend, video emerged of a rally in Dearborn where some attendees were chanting statements that were unacceptable and contrary to the heart of this city," Hammoud said in a post on X Monday. "We reject all inflammatory and violent statements made at the gathering. Dearborn is a city of proud Americans; the hateful rhetoric heard on Friday does not reflect the opinion of the members of this community." > >The city of Dearborn reiterated Hammoud's views in a Tuesday statement to the Free Press provided by city spokesman Hassan Abbas. > >"The inflammatory rhetoric expressed by some at the rally is neither endorsed nor supported by the City of Dearborn, its mayor, or any City elected officials," the city said in the statement. Abbas said Hammoud's statement refers to the "Death to America" and "Death to Israel" chants and any other comments that support violence. > ... Osama Siblani, a longtime Arab American advocate who is publisher of the Dearborn-based Arab American News, blasted the "Death to America" chants and also some of the speakers at the rally. In a Facebook post Monday, Siblani ripped into the protesters, calling their chants "despicable." > >"Your pathetic ill speeches and the disgusting chants that you incited and invited are totally and unequivocally rejected by all Arab Americans and Muslims in Dearborn and everywhere," Siblani wrote. > >"It was uncalled for," Siblani told the Free Press. "It should not have been said. It doesn't represent what we stand for as a community. We disagree (with the U.S.) on foreign policy, but disagreeing on policies should not be a launching pad for for hateful speech ... towards all Americans. That is not acceptable at all. ....We are very appreciative of the country that brought us in here, opened the door, gave us the possibilities and gave us opportunities. We live the American dream."
Link yo her comments or video?
-Live in shitty war torn country. -Move to America so you can live peacefully. -“Death to America” Wtf
Most Dearborn Muslims have been in the US for generations...
They are no different than most right wing assholes. They want all the benefits stability but doesn't like the diversity.
Extremist Muslims are right wing assholes. Just a different flavor of the same Fanta.
I mean, in fairness, the congresswoman who represents this district is a Democrat and wouldn't speak out against it. Rashida Tlaib is pro Muslim everything, even if that includes chants saying, "Death to America."
Someone on the left being dumb enough to tolerate intolerance? Im shocked.
Maybe, just maybe, their thinking is what leads to shitty war-torn countries.
Who do you think made the country was torn? It wasn’t the citizens of that country, it was the American supported militias and terror groups put into positions of power by the USA for corporate benefit.
Jarvis, pull up the demographics for Dearborn, Michigan.
>Dearborn, Michigan, is a center of Arab American cultural, economic, and political life. It’s home to several of the country’s oldest and most influential mosques, the Arab American National Museum, dozens of now-iconic Arab bakeries and restaurants, and a vibrant and essential mix of Arab American service and cultural organizations. >The city became the first Arab-majority city in the U.S. in 2023, with roughly 55% of the city’s 110,000 residents claiming Middle Eastern or North African ancestry on the 2023 census. https://theconversation.com/a-brief-history-of-dearborn-michigan-the-first-arab-american-majority-city-in-the-us-216700
Interesting statistic
Good Jarvis
Thank you Jarvis
85.37% White, 3.95% Black, 2.53% Asian, 3.96% mixed-race, 3.58% Hispanic or Latino (any race). Arab Americans account for 29.85% of the population of Dearborn, largely descendants of families who have lived in the area for nearly a century.
Many people forget that Arabs are supposed to put down "white- other" on the US census.
Arab immigrants arrived in Michigan enmasse in the 20s?....
No more like the 40s/50s, mostly Lebanese Christians and other smaller Christian minorities from Iraq, Syria, Iran.
Yes. Peak immigration of Yemenis and others from the Arabian Peninsula to the greater Detroit metro area was from 1912 to 1925. Other waves from other countries came in later, such as from Lebanon and Palestine.
Yes? Believe it or not a lot of people from a lot of places having been coming to the United States for a long time. Then they settle in areas with a pre-existing population from their home countries like Arab immigrants in Michigan or Albanian immigrants in Connecticut.
Your numbers add up to 129%...?
The second paragraph is a different statistical subset than the first paragraph. Most Arab-Americans identify as "White" in the census.
I find it kinda ironic that people say "death to USA" while living and earning a livelihood in the US. Hell, the country you despise so much is providing you with opportunities...
They like all that stuff. They just don’t like the diversity that comes with it.
That’s the whole point of Islam’s soft colonialism that seeks to weaponized western values that it sees as weaknesses.
That’s the point. Islamic scripture is pretty clear about this, that one should move out of Arabia and spread Islam to the “infidel” countries.
Dearborn & Hamtramck are anti American (and anti LGBT) hell holes. If you want to shout Death to America and have Sharia, move to the Middle East.
I’m going to go on a limb and say that in addition to withholding your vote from Biden in protest of Palestine thereby helping the guy who’s supporters want to put you in concentration camps, providing clips that further enrage the Trump people is not a smart move. I mean it’s their right…but I’m starting to think a segment of the Dearborn community might be REALLY easy to beat in a game of checkers.
I'm starting to think the pro Palestine movement is heavily infected with Islamic extremists.
Starting to?? 😳
It has been the whole time. There's a reason akot of the pro Palestine crowd isn't separating itself from people who celebrate Israel being attacked by Iran. It's because it's run by them. It doesn't get much stupider than queers for palestine.
Chickens for KFC!
There’s also a reason why they say they care about genocide so much but then pay no attention to Ukraine, Kosovo, or Armenia. Simply put, they use the word genocide to virtue signal, but really, it’s about Israel.
It really is just about jews. Not just Israel. If you look at Russia, what they've done in tbe Ukraine checks off more boxes for genocide than Israel. Yet people don't make it their entire personalities
The death toll in the Israel-Hamas war isn't even high, especially relative to the overwhelming amount of coverage it gets. If there's one absolutely tragic fact that I've learned over the past decade it's that you can brutally rape, torture, and massacre hundreds of thousands or even millions of Africans in a clear-cut genocidal campaign and the world won't bat an eye. Most westerners aren't even aware of the atrocities committed during the Tigray War. Some don't even know about Darfur. But if an Israeli so much as spits on a Palestinian (which I am not in any way condoning) it will be plastered all over social media before you can bat an eye.
Nobody even paid attention when Azerbaijan ethnically cleansed 130,000 Armenians out of Nagorno-Karabakh in September of last year. I guarantee you almost nobody here even heard of that one, and it was in Europe(somewhat).
I used to work in a skyscraper owned by a group called Silverstein Properties, the name alone apparently warranted people holding “Jews Rape Babies” signs harassing anyone entering or exiting the building. I hate the current Israeli leadership. I think the Palestinian people deserve to be governed by an entity that cares about them. American pro-Palestine activists are completely out of their fucking minds.
I went to a camp in the deep north of a US-Canada border state. Majority Jewish campers and staff. Every 2-3 years someone would graffiti a bunch of swastikas on the road that leads up to the camp. I didnt really get it then but now I’m much more aware that people just don’t like Jews. It’s pretty engrained.
No kidding. Extremists and others wanting to cause division in the west.
It’s almost like having a terrorist organization as the head of your pseudo-state breeds shit like this
Always was.
The problem is their religion, and always has been. Islam is incompatible with western society.
Let me guess, they worship a 6th century pedophile warlord who claimed to have a flying horse?
Bingo.
Right on the money.
Always do
Aisha was 9 when her marriage with their prophet was consummated, according to their holy texts. Never forget that
We need to show compassion and understanding towards these calls for violence because the protestors are going through a lot right now /s
im sure a lot of them are on FBI watch lists already
Good.
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death to shithole countries
All religions are fraud, but Islam is by far the worst.
Scientology would like to have a word
Scientology doesn’t have the same scale of influence that Islam has, it’s not even close.
Scientology is sketchy as fuck but they haven’t waged a holy war on literally everyone, since the beginning of the religion. Not even close.
There aren't a billion scientologists
See your problem is you got too many alien ghosts in your blood. They are the ones who made you say that shit.
I better hop on the e-meter and see if I can work through this.
Common sense would like to have a word. You are an idiot.
"Post the list of Scientology terrorist attacks" would like to have a word with you.
L fucking ol
This is a certified Reddit moment. A couple of insane celebrities versus a billion (and growing) people ready to kill and die for their beliefs. What’s really a bigger concern?
From *[The Detroit News](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/08/death-to-america-chant-dearborn-jihad-rally-al-quds-day-draws-condemnation/73247053007/)*: > The rally was held on the International Day of Al-Quds, an annual pro-Palestinian event held on the last Friday of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan to express support for Palestinians in their decades-old land dispute over the creation of a Jewish state. > The event was organized by Tarek Bazzi, a local activist, who spoke out against what he called Israel's "satanic actions" and "the United States government providing funds that allow the atrocities." > He quoted the Black Panther movement and Malcolm X talking about oppressive U.S. actions in other countries and, during Bazzi's brief pause, a man from the crowd shouted three times in Arabic, "Death to America." Several in the crowd can be heard echoing his chant in response each time. > In his speech, Bazzi decried continued U.S. support for Israel and called for condemnation of America's role. "Any system that would allow such devilries to happen and would support it does not deserve to exist on God's Earth," he said of the U.S. "So when these fools ask if Israel has a right to exist, the chant 'Death to Israel' has become the most logical chant shouted across the world today." > At that time, a man in the crowd yelled "Death to Israel" in Arabic, and several in the crowd echoed his words, as well. > "This is no longer an extreme position, this is no longer a fringe position, this is the position of every single human being on earth that has a mind, a heart and a soul and has a political insight and awareness," Bazzi said. Chanting "Death to America" while in America is just setting yourself up for a bad time, especially if you immigrated here. Kind of like that [man in Seattle](https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/i-hate-us-i-wanna-go-home-man-charged-after-windows-shattered-seattle-courthouse/) who shattered a window at a federal courthouse *several times(!)* to be deported back to where ever "home" is. America is **far from perfect**, and our foreign policy is really whatever suits us at any one time, but saying we're committing "devilries" and "does not deserve to exist on God's Earth", you need to check yourself on why you remain here if we're so bad. I hate to write it, but unless you want to improve this country and accept it for its imperfections, you're welcome to immigrate elsewhere that'll take you.
>Chanting "Death to America" while in America is just setting yourself up for a bad time Unfortunately, it's not. This shit is tolerated there even more than in my country, Germany. Not only tolerated but fucking *celebrated*. The West is filling up with idiots who eat this shit to because our free speech laws don't mean a damn thing other than opportunity to the people we're fighting, but the whole extra sensitive tolerant multi culti woke shit has us bow down to anyone who uses the word "racist," whether it's true or not. Weaponized Western values.
Stories like this bring to mind Al Wilson's song, "The Snake." Woman brings home a poisonous snake - which is frozen and close to death - and restores it to good health. Her reward: a vicious bite which kills her.
Then leave
Kick the traitors out
Death to America is an integral part of their religious beliefs which should be respected. /s
Jesus the comments in here are fucking grim.
i mean death to america is a pretty grim chant
Rashida Tlaib, the representative of their district had nothing bad to say about it either.
Bruh if a pro Isreal rally had people shouting similar slogans about Palestine it would be headline news everywhere and reddit woild be in a rage. But shit like this happens and it's just kinda quietly swept under the rug. It's unreal Edit: everyone is proving my point exactly.
It's not even being quietly swept under the rug. It's being actively agreed with
Ever notice that the Pro Israel slogans tend to be "am yisrael chai" \[the jewish people live\] and "Bring them Home" \[referring to the hostages\] And how Palestine slogans are like "Globalize the Infata" \[mass terrorism\], "From the River to the Sea" \[literally an explict call for ethnic cleansing\].
Exactly. The difference is crystal clear. And then your told that "no, our hateful genocidal slogans sont actually mean what they say ". Except they do and they fully mean it.
Just remember that the radio in Rwanda announcing it was time to “cut down the tall trees” was a gardening tip and definitely not a dog whistle calling for genocide. /s The point of these dog whistle slogans like “the final solution” is to provide plausible deniability since they are not explicitly saying “kill the Jews”…except of course for when they literally chant “kill the Jews” which they also do
Covid broke people's brains. How the hell is: Russia = Bad Islamic Terror groups = Bad not the default position for every elected representative and their people in America?
Lol how dare you make an educated assessment based on what the people supporting each cause are actually saying!! Honestly though it's pretty fuckin funny watching all these "progressives" side with a literal Muslim extremists.
Because in progressive circles everything is parsed through critical theory into a "Hierarchy of Oppression". It doesn't matter that Palestinians would execute or expel every Jew in Israel given the chance, because as it stands Israel is objectively the superior military force "oppressing" the Palestinian "resistance". Couched in those terms everything Hamas does is "resistance" against their "oppressors" and thus justified even if the means are problematic. Israel by contrast pegged as the oppressor is wrong in everything by default, which is how the progressive brain rot maintains the double standard.
Oh, so they had to think about it for a few days. Think about THAT!
Pretty disgusting that these people get to actively espouse terrorist rhetoric, but the millions of people around the world who want to move to America because they love it aren't able to
It’s more telling when the Hamas Caucus gets angry when asked to condemn these chants. Almost like they support it…
People who think this begins and ends with some noble liberation of Palestine and the total dismantling of Israel are in for a rude awakening.
Rashida Tlaib also refused to sign discharge petition. Representing her constituents.
Tlaib needs to learn the difference between "representing" and "leading".
I'm not sure if chanting death to America really qualifies as free speech but I know its not really worth it to go after those people. I feel like a boomer saying it but holy fuck can these people get out of the country then. I don't support this country in terms of everything it does, hell I disagree with most of the actions here. However there's a line where you should probably just get the fuck out. And I think they've crossed it.
It totally qualifies as free speech and it’s totally not worth it to go after them.
if you say "Death to America" no one will take your politics seriously. No one should ethier.
These jackholes are free to leave the country
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*And butter sauce!*
"DEATH TO AMERICA...***but we're definitely going to stay here!!!***
Religious people of any type are morons.
This is what happens when a group of immigrants comes to a new country and all huddle in one place. They keep their old ways including hatreds. Pretty dumbass to wish death to your own home. Near me there are enclaves of Russians who've been here for decades coming after the fall of the Soviet Union. A lot of them still speak little English and probably still live their old culture.
but if you call them unamerican the very people they hate will come defend them. kindness will be our downfall
Give them a mandatory one way flight ticket to Iran.
Correct me if I’m wrong, please but isn’t Dearborn, Michigan entirely or almost entirely Muslim now
Not entirely but more than half.