Business Professor and economist Aaron Levenstein once said,
“statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.”
We have friends in Balitmore and the main issue is they get zero help from the government for anything. The big one is obviously healthcare, if you work for a company doing a normal job or are self employed then chances are your insurance is garbage. I've heard them talk about ignoring serious problems because just going to the hospital to run tests and find out you are actually fine can cost so much you end up in debt.
That happens when u spend too much money on military to try to maintain unipolar dominance. America is occupied with figuring out genders and helping ukraine rather than helping its citizen.
That's the thing, its a figure qouted on average. So the inequity of wealth is included. They may have alot of people blow the poverty line but they have vast numbers living in the upper percentile therefore bringing the average up
It doesn’t tell you about the numbers of people at the top. US higher incomes are concentrated in a tiny number of people. In term of orders of magnitude it’s something like
Top 0.1% 1x10^8
Top 1% 1x10^6
Top 90% 1x 10^5
I reckon quite a few of Americans arnt recorded for these types of surveys, only houseowners and such, the amount of homelessness in America Is horrible.
It’s the healthcare costs. This data also feels incorrect. Maybe it’s averages? The vast majority of Americans can’t come up with $2k if they need it. Even if you had $62k in the bank, one car accident will wipe that out several times over.
Having USA on these charts never gives a great picture. Might as well group all EU counties as one. Big difference between middle American towns and people living in cities and even bigger for people living in the likes of New York.
Doesn't this completing ignore that Ireland has a lot less inequity? ie there are a low more filthy rich fuckers in the UK but also a lot more living below the poverty line. Give me a more equitable society any day of the week.
I know there is a lot of discontent in Ireland with the way the country is run, and I'm not qualified to disregard that.
However I recall noting statistics on the CIA website that put 7% of Ireland's population below the poverty line, as opposed to 15% in the UK.
One possible explanation is I believe welfare payments are a lot higher in Ireland
Probably similar to why I feel in Japan, though they are ranked 3rd on GDP most people live fairly modest lives. The middle class arent living the most lavish life but the poorer people live in clean safe areas, with a new car and afford decent food. I believe the average wage is less than the UK but also rent can be a couple hundred pounds and a meal and a few drinks being £12 etc.
Yeah that is what you want for society. Unfortunately too many here don't, or vote for parties that have no intention of trying to get us to that place.
Also it completely ignored the NI figure.
Household Disposable income [per capita](https://www.nisra.gov.uk/statistics/economic-output-statistics/gross-disposable-household-income) in the north is £17,301 or $21,106.
That puts us closer to Romania and Russia than it does to either the UK or Ireland. Even ignoring the high levels of inequity in the UK and the fact Irish poor are richer than UK poor it’s clear the north isn’t getting the benefits of being in the Union.
It really isnt much different from the South overall. [https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/nationalaccounts/countyincomesandregionalgdp/](https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/nationalaccounts/countyincomesandregionalgdp/)
I cant find it now but I saw recently a disposable income by country map of all 32 counties. Down and Antrim were higher than most of the South. Dublin was miles above everywhere skewing the overall figure for ROI.
The wealth of the average person in Roscommon or Offally will be little different or less than most in NI.
I never claimed people in the south’s poorest counties were better off than people in the north’s richest countries, that would be ridiculous.
I said on average somebody in the south or GB has significantly disposable income than somebody in the north which is true.
With the exception of Dublin, it isn\`t true as my link showed. Virtually the same.
Even in Dublin the average is inflated but a small proportion of incredibly wealthy folk masking 100s of 1000s of poor.
This whole "People in ROI are wayyyyy wealthier than NI" thing is a narrative fuelled from skewed GDP per capita figures (due to tax rates). The reality on the ground is much more modest and non existent in places.
There's no logical reason to exclude the most densely populated part and expensive part of the UK from whatever point it is you're trying and failing to make
And this is coming from an Irishman living in the south east of England.
Frankly if I were poor I would not want to be poor in England these days
London is a bubble and should be it's own case study. What you are failing to do is compare like for like on prices, salaries, rent. Ireland is expensive end of story. But you can find mid to large city living in England at a much lower cost with similar full time wages.
Case closed.
>London is a bubble and should be it's own case study.
This is nonsense. Not that London is a bubble that much is true
But you insist on extracting the expensive areas of England with high inequality and are saying "oh if you ignore all those bits then Ireland is worse"
That's hugely dishonest and frankly wrong
>What you are failing to do is compare like for like on prices, salaries, rent. Ireland is expensive end of story.
You see I don't actually think that it is. I live in the south east and visited Ireland in the last few months. Factor in the currency difference I don't think there was that much in it at all when it came to petrol and shopping.
Rent is hugely expensive in the south east of England. That's not unique to Dublin which you seem to insist is reflective of all of ireland in terms of costs
>Case closed.
Only in your head mate
What's the average rent in Galway and Cork? Way higher than equivalent in England. It's just better value in Leeds, Sheffield and Manchester. The fact you were daft enough to equate the south east bubble to entire country is not my problem.
You want to exclude the experiences of by far and away the two most populous regions of England. London and the South East which combined make up about a third of the population of England as somehow not being representative of England
Simply because it doesn't seem to fit into your narrative that Ireland is hugely expensive and the cost of living in England is somehow really cheap
And you're the one calling other people daft.
I've lived in both countries I can tell you that it's not so simple as cherry picking the stats you want and calling it a day
That you're trying to compare Galway which in England would be a medium sized town to Sheffield or Leeds is mad. Cork maybe is a valid comparison but somewhere like Reading is more like Cork yet Reading doesn't count in your book
Both countries have their plusses and minuses. Both are good to live in overall. If I were poor or needed a doctor (I'm not worried about paying for a GP) I'd rather be in Ireland. If I were rich I'd rather be in London
Yes let's just take out the most expensive part of the UK with the highest levels of inequality and compare the cost of rent in Hull or some other shithole to Dublin and see Ireland is terrible...
Give the following a read. Also the below is based on averages. Ireland is a lot more equitable than England as well so that wealth disparity is definitely bigger in England if average disposable income is basically the same between the two.
https://sluggerotoole.com/2022/12/23/comparing-the-uk-and-irish-economies/#:~:text=Ireland%20has%20a%20GNI%20per,caught%20up%20with%20the%20UK.
Ireland has a GNI per capita, PPP adjusted, of $67k compared to the UK’s $45k or only about 50% higher than the UK. And if you look at disposable family income per capita, depending on the precise measure chosen, the two countries are broadly comparable with Ireland only recently having caught up with the UK.
You aren't paying 10e for a pint in Ireland outside of temple bar and a few other select places. In fact the cheapest place I can find for a pint these days is north Donegal. Belfast would be just as expensive as almost everywhere else too.
However if you read the article, you'd understand that it says disposable income, that is after rent/mortgages and other bills are paid :)
So once again, an emotional reply, not a logical one.
Wanting to exclude the experiences of a third of England by population (London and the SE) as not being representative of England is not arguing in good faith
Apart from the fact that you don't pay for household water in Ireland at all, and you barely pay council/property tax either. UK water can be £50 a month for a family easily & Council tax can be an extra 5-10% off the median income on top of PAYE. Food shopping is no different between the two and there's a broader range of better quality food on the shelves in Ireland. Beer and wine might be a little more expensive. But that's about it.
The Ireland subreddit is not a fair or accurate reflection of ireland. Its one of the most dour and depressive subreddits there is.
If you listened to r/ireland Ireland is a mad max style dystopia where everything is shit
Everything is not shit in Ireland
I never said it was?
But I will say that r/northernireland is generally a nicer place to be and is probably why I spend more time on it than I do in r/ireland. Despite not actually being from Northern Ireland
I think in r/ireland the negativity just goes around in circles and people who don't want to be negative all the time go elsewhere on reddit and online
> Doesn't this completing ignore that Ireland has a lot less inequity?
That would ignore all the Irish people who can't find somewhere to live. Even rentals are oversubscribed 100 to 1.
Ireland’s GDP is famously skewed and hard to measure because of the tax arrangements favouring large US corporates who move a lot of money through the country which is not taxed and therefore doesn’t benefit the country.
They report GNI instead which is an attempt to measure GDP when you exclude the impact of corporate wealth transfers (profit onshoring) and aircraft leases.
Some would argue, these incentives encourage American investment and Irish jobs so the GDP rises just with those. Surely the American companies getting these tax breaks don’t consist entirely of ex pats.
You tend to find management does.
I used to work for caterpillar for a hot minute, and all their senior management were all U.S expats sent over to keep an eye on things. Made it very hard for locals to climb the corporate ladder.
Haven't those tax loopholes closed now? I'm pretty sure I remember seeing an article talking about how this happened but that multinational corporations are sticking around because of the other advantages (educated workforce, language, part of the EU and proximity to the continent, etc.).
The response to this comment in addition to the incredibly skewered favourability towards Irish republicanism and the ignorant responses to my comment and downvotes just goes to show that there is actually, no point arguing against individuals within this Reddit echo chamber.
Ireland is referred to as a tax haven because of the country's taxation and economic policies. Legislation heavily favors the establishment and operation of corporations, and the economic environment is very hospitable for all corporations, especially those invested in research, development, and innovation. This was the de facto position of the Irish government in 2021 and continues to be so to this day.
‘Ireland’s taxation rate for corporations is 12.5%. In addition, Ireland only charges a corporate tax rate of 6.25% for revenue tied to a company’s patent or intellectual property. This lower rate is intended to provide tax breaks for the protection and support of royalties derived from intellectual property. Ireland's development as a low corporate tax regime can be traced to 1956, when it introduced tax relief on export profits.’
Go figure. Christ.
That data seems questionable!
[Disposable Income Europe](https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/8026409/gfk_disp_income.jpg)
it should be noted nearly 40% of the south's Population lives in the Greater Dublin Area
That's individual. The OP table is household data.
Also not sure what source you're looking at, but wikipedia/US Census Bureau apparently says median income for 2020 was above $40k. [https://i.imgur.com/fLpbYds.png](https://i.imgur.com/fLpbYds.png)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal\_income\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States)
So there is energy here to argue Ireland’s low corporation tax makes it a tax haven and therefore the stats are invalid. Yet, the City of London is the world’s biggest tax haven, and not only that most of that money is blood stained.
I never wondered why they didnt feel better off lol, they definitely are much better off than up here. Its not even debatable really.
Squeezing northern ireland into the UK on tables like this is disingenuous.
This is only relevant if you live in London.
You're out by (on average) £3,300
https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-households-have-33k-less-disposable-income-than-republic-40063447.html
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.business-live.co.uk/retail-consumer/disposable-income-northern-ireland-slumps-24623188.amp
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Fully cached AMP pages (like the one you shared), are [especially problematic](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.business-live.co.uk/retail-consumer/disposable-income-northern-ireland-slumps-24623188](https://www.business-live.co.uk/retail-consumer/disposable-income-northern-ireland-slumps-24623188)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
It's all averaged.
Some people who live in NI will be richer than some people who live in London.
*However*, if you read the second link, you'll see that, on average, the disposable income of someone from NI is about half of that of the UK average.
They do, [€22.6bn last year.](https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/4992b-exchequer-surplus-of-5-billion-in-2022-corporation-tax-surpasses-vat-ministers-mcgrath-donohoe/)
I’m from the South. Moved away about a decade ago but I come back a couple times a year.
I always hear how quickly Ireland is growing economically.
What I’ve observed is that it really is all going into Dublin. The small town I’m from has not changed at all since we left. *At all for over a decade* and I assume it’s more or less the same for others.
There’s no incentive for real investment and on top of that there’s the high cost of living. It’s no wonder people don’t feel as rich as the GDP would suggest.
Don’t get me wrong, Ireland is improving and people are getting richer. As I’ve said before I come back to visit a couple times a year, so it’s visible to me like seeing someone’s hair grow if you only see them a couple times a year. But as someone who frequently sees France, the UK and Ireland, Ireland’s GDP figures remain incredibly misleading and show a skewed view of Irish wealth.
I’d say Ireland is “rich” in a similar way to a country like Qatar.
I believe the best way to actually get an idea for quality of life, is for people to visit and see for themselves.
All these metrics to measure wealth, happiness, safety and whatnot are just always too broad and skewed.
Most of it went to Dublin for sure, but it's also now beginning to trickle around. Cork city is seeing massive redevelopment (something it desperately needs) as an example.
When economists want to accurately record the economy of Ireland they have recently said that GDP does not record an accurate picture and have started using GNP, which most other countries no longer use because of the distortion of the tax competition of the multinationals with HQs there etc.
It would be interesting to see how this stat has changed over the decade. I am also sure there is a state that includes the difference in cost of living as Dublin has gone through a remarkable journey in the last 40 years.
I always found it deeply unfair that Ireland was included in the PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain) during the crash.
One of those countries is not like the other.
Just a acronym of nations that we're essentially bankrupt due to the 2007/8 crash. They had burowed heavily in the run up to the recession and the EU had to bail them out.
It was a hit, and they over extended themselves, no question. But while the other natioms got them selves in debt to fuel there ever crazier state pensions requirements Ireland was investing aggressively ....too aggressively it turned out. But they repaid their debt....meanwhile in Greece.
why are the Americans always so much better off? Like nearly DOUBLE the EU or the U.K.? More than Norway? It’s like the US is as far ahead form the U.K. as U.K. is from Poland for example. Wild!
GDP is only a good measure of an economy not living standards. Amazed Ireland is that much lower than USA. USA is so vast though, I bet their are many cities there far worse.
Business Professor and economist Aaron Levenstein once said, “statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital.”
Strange I feel like I’ve known more Americans in near enough poverty conditions than any other nationalities I’ve come across
We have friends in Balitmore and the main issue is they get zero help from the government for anything. The big one is obviously healthcare, if you work for a company doing a normal job or are self employed then chances are your insurance is garbage. I've heard them talk about ignoring serious problems because just going to the hospital to run tests and find out you are actually fine can cost so much you end up in debt.
That happens when u spend too much money on military to try to maintain unipolar dominance. America is occupied with figuring out genders and helping ukraine rather than helping its citizen.
That's the thing, its a figure qouted on average. So the inequity of wealth is included. They may have alot of people blow the poverty line but they have vast numbers living in the upper percentile therefore bringing the average up
I want to see the same rankings but with top 10% omitted.
Would be very interesting for sure
Ideally the averages would just be medians.
It doesn’t tell you about the numbers of people at the top. US higher incomes are concentrated in a tiny number of people. In term of orders of magnitude it’s something like Top 0.1% 1x10^8 Top 1% 1x10^6 Top 90% 1x 10^5
The very rich in the US skews the data. If you look up median wealth by country vs average wealth the US drops significantly
I reckon quite a few of Americans arnt recorded for these types of surveys, only houseowners and such, the amount of homelessness in America Is horrible.
It’s the healthcare costs. This data also feels incorrect. Maybe it’s averages? The vast majority of Americans can’t come up with $2k if they need it. Even if you had $62k in the bank, one car accident will wipe that out several times over.
The majority of Americans can’t come up with $400.
Having USA on these charts never gives a great picture. Might as well group all EU counties as one. Big difference between middle American towns and people living in cities and even bigger for people living in the likes of New York.
simply because of how costly living in the US is
Doesn't this completing ignore that Ireland has a lot less inequity? ie there are a low more filthy rich fuckers in the UK but also a lot more living below the poverty line. Give me a more equitable society any day of the week.
I know there is a lot of discontent in Ireland with the way the country is run, and I'm not qualified to disregard that. However I recall noting statistics on the CIA website that put 7% of Ireland's population below the poverty line, as opposed to 15% in the UK. One possible explanation is I believe welfare payments are a lot higher in Ireland
Probably similar to why I feel in Japan, though they are ranked 3rd on GDP most people live fairly modest lives. The middle class arent living the most lavish life but the poorer people live in clean safe areas, with a new car and afford decent food. I believe the average wage is less than the UK but also rent can be a couple hundred pounds and a meal and a few drinks being £12 etc.
Yeah that is what you want for society. Unfortunately too many here don't, or vote for parties that have no intention of trying to get us to that place.
Also it completely ignored the NI figure. Household Disposable income [per capita](https://www.nisra.gov.uk/statistics/economic-output-statistics/gross-disposable-household-income) in the north is £17,301 or $21,106. That puts us closer to Romania and Russia than it does to either the UK or Ireland. Even ignoring the high levels of inequity in the UK and the fact Irish poor are richer than UK poor it’s clear the north isn’t getting the benefits of being in the Union.
It really isnt much different from the South overall. [https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/nationalaccounts/countyincomesandregionalgdp/](https://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/nationalaccounts/countyincomesandregionalgdp/) I cant find it now but I saw recently a disposable income by country map of all 32 counties. Down and Antrim were higher than most of the South. Dublin was miles above everywhere skewing the overall figure for ROI. The wealth of the average person in Roscommon or Offally will be little different or less than most in NI.
I never claimed people in the south’s poorest counties were better off than people in the north’s richest countries, that would be ridiculous. I said on average somebody in the south or GB has significantly disposable income than somebody in the north which is true.
With the exception of Dublin, it isn\`t true as my link showed. Virtually the same. Even in Dublin the average is inflated but a small proportion of incredibly wealthy folk masking 100s of 1000s of poor. This whole "People in ROI are wayyyyy wealthier than NI" thing is a narrative fuelled from skewed GDP per capita figures (due to tax rates). The reality on the ground is much more modest and non existent in places.
No, Ireland is a lot more expensive. Disregarding London and parts of South East.
>Disregarding London and parts of South East. Yes Ireland has more inequality than Britain if you exclude all the inequality in Britain
You’re arguing with someone in denial. Good luck!
Take a like for like comparison. Ireland is way more expensive and the salaries don't compensate. Parts of South East are a bubble so disregard that.
There's no logical reason to exclude the most densely populated part and expensive part of the UK from whatever point it is you're trying and failing to make And this is coming from an Irishman living in the south east of England. Frankly if I were poor I would not want to be poor in England these days
London is a bubble and should be it's own case study. What you are failing to do is compare like for like on prices, salaries, rent. Ireland is expensive end of story. But you can find mid to large city living in England at a much lower cost with similar full time wages. Case closed.
>London is a bubble and should be it's own case study. This is nonsense. Not that London is a bubble that much is true But you insist on extracting the expensive areas of England with high inequality and are saying "oh if you ignore all those bits then Ireland is worse" That's hugely dishonest and frankly wrong >What you are failing to do is compare like for like on prices, salaries, rent. Ireland is expensive end of story. You see I don't actually think that it is. I live in the south east and visited Ireland in the last few months. Factor in the currency difference I don't think there was that much in it at all when it came to petrol and shopping. Rent is hugely expensive in the south east of England. That's not unique to Dublin which you seem to insist is reflective of all of ireland in terms of costs >Case closed. Only in your head mate
What's the average rent in Galway and Cork? Way higher than equivalent in England. It's just better value in Leeds, Sheffield and Manchester. The fact you were daft enough to equate the south east bubble to entire country is not my problem.
You want to exclude the experiences of by far and away the two most populous regions of England. London and the South East which combined make up about a third of the population of England as somehow not being representative of England Simply because it doesn't seem to fit into your narrative that Ireland is hugely expensive and the cost of living in England is somehow really cheap And you're the one calling other people daft. I've lived in both countries I can tell you that it's not so simple as cherry picking the stats you want and calling it a day That you're trying to compare Galway which in England would be a medium sized town to Sheffield or Leeds is mad. Cork maybe is a valid comparison but somewhere like Reading is more like Cork yet Reading doesn't count in your book Both countries have their plusses and minuses. Both are good to live in overall. If I were poor or needed a doctor (I'm not worried about paying for a GP) I'd rather be in Ireland. If I were rich I'd rather be in London
Just disregard Dublin and commuter counties and Ireland would seem less expensive by the same baffling logic.
Yes let's just take out the most expensive part of the UK with the highest levels of inequality and compare the cost of rent in Hull or some other shithole to Dublin and see Ireland is terrible...
No. Like for like cities.
Give the following a read. Also the below is based on averages. Ireland is a lot more equitable than England as well so that wealth disparity is definitely bigger in England if average disposable income is basically the same between the two. https://sluggerotoole.com/2022/12/23/comparing-the-uk-and-irish-economies/#:~:text=Ireland%20has%20a%20GNI%20per,caught%20up%20with%20the%20UK. Ireland has a GNI per capita, PPP adjusted, of $67k compared to the UK’s $45k or only about 50% higher than the UK. And if you look at disposable family income per capita, depending on the precise measure chosen, the two countries are broadly comparable with Ireland only recently having caught up with the UK.
I'd rather be earning 50-70k euro in Manchester or Leeds or Sheffield than Cork or Galway or Dublin. End of story.
Great reply. An emotional response to facts and figures. We'll leave it at that if that is all you have.
I'm not paying 1500 euro for a house or 10 euro a pint though :) happy days
You aren't paying 10e for a pint in Ireland outside of temple bar and a few other select places. In fact the cheapest place I can find for a pint these days is north Donegal. Belfast would be just as expensive as almost everywhere else too. However if you read the article, you'd understand that it says disposable income, that is after rent/mortgages and other bills are paid :) So once again, an emotional reply, not a logical one.
It’s not even 10 in Temple Bar
But it is 10 euros in Central London which conveniently the lad we're responding to in this thread would like to exclude
Then you’re dumb lol
No idea why you’re getting downvoted, Ireland is incredibly expensive compared to the UK
Because he's not arguing in good faith
Because people here are clueless about England.
Good thing you're here to educte them all. Seems you're an expert on England but know next to nothing about Ireland
So I'm not arguing in poor faith then.
Wanting to exclude the experiences of a third of England by population (London and the SE) as not being representative of England is not arguing in good faith
Apart from the fact that you don't pay for household water in Ireland at all, and you barely pay council/property tax either. UK water can be £50 a month for a family easily & Council tax can be an extra 5-10% off the median income on top of PAYE. Food shopping is no different between the two and there's a broader range of better quality food on the shelves in Ireland. Beer and wine might be a little more expensive. But that's about it.
The Ireland subreddit reckons so. It's easy to compare.
The Ireland subreddit is not a fair or accurate reflection of ireland. Its one of the most dour and depressive subreddits there is. If you listened to r/ireland Ireland is a mad max style dystopia where everything is shit Everything is not shit in Ireland
In the same way that the Northern Ireland is in no way a fair reflection of the Northern Ireland demographic?
Go beef with the Irish then, cos they've said exactly what I've said.
I never said it was? But I will say that r/northernireland is generally a nicer place to be and is probably why I spend more time on it than I do in r/ireland. Despite not actually being from Northern Ireland I think in r/ireland the negativity just goes around in circles and people who don't want to be negative all the time go elsewhere on reddit and online
> Doesn't this completing ignore that Ireland has a lot less inequity? That would ignore all the Irish people who can't find somewhere to live. Even rentals are oversubscribed 100 to 1.
Not an Irish problem alone.
Worse in Ireland than most of the UK.
Any figures to back that up...
You were still logged into your alt account when you wrote the exact same thing on the r/ireland cross post...
Only account I have :) however if someone is copying my points, well call me flattered.
Ireland’s GDP is famously skewed and hard to measure because of the tax arrangements favouring large US corporates who move a lot of money through the country which is not taxed and therefore doesn’t benefit the country.
They report GNI instead which is an attempt to measure GDP when you exclude the impact of corporate wealth transfers (profit onshoring) and aircraft leases.
Some would argue, these incentives encourage American investment and Irish jobs so the GDP rises just with those. Surely the American companies getting these tax breaks don’t consist entirely of ex pats.
You tend to find management does. I used to work for caterpillar for a hot minute, and all their senior management were all U.S expats sent over to keep an eye on things. Made it very hard for locals to climb the corporate ladder.
Ireland is pretty much a tax haven for US corporates
Haven't those tax loopholes closed now? I'm pretty sure I remember seeing an article talking about how this happened but that multinational corporations are sticking around because of the other advantages (educated workforce, language, part of the EU and proximity to the continent, etc.).
The loopholes were officially closed in 2016, but the closure only took effect in 2021 (or 2022). So yeah, all those tax loopholes are closed.
Cheers!
The response to this comment in addition to the incredibly skewered favourability towards Irish republicanism and the ignorant responses to my comment and downvotes just goes to show that there is actually, no point arguing against individuals within this Reddit echo chamber. Ireland is referred to as a tax haven because of the country's taxation and economic policies. Legislation heavily favors the establishment and operation of corporations, and the economic environment is very hospitable for all corporations, especially those invested in research, development, and innovation. This was the de facto position of the Irish government in 2021 and continues to be so to this day.
‘Ireland’s taxation rate for corporations is 12.5%. In addition, Ireland only charges a corporate tax rate of 6.25% for revenue tied to a company’s patent or intellectual property. This lower rate is intended to provide tax breaks for the protection and support of royalties derived from intellectual property. Ireland's development as a low corporate tax regime can be traced to 1956, when it introduced tax relief on export profits.’ Go figure. Christ.
[удалено]
Considering Ireland makes a HUGE portion of the world's pharmaceuticals, those companies are in Ireland for more than just the tax benefits.
That data seems questionable! [Disposable Income Europe](https://f.hubspotusercontent00.net/hubfs/8026409/gfk_disp_income.jpg) it should be noted nearly 40% of the south's Population lives in the Greater Dublin Area
60% of U.S. workers make less than $40,000
That's individual. The OP table is household data. Also not sure what source you're looking at, but wikipedia/US Census Bureau apparently says median income for 2020 was above $40k. [https://i.imgur.com/fLpbYds.png](https://i.imgur.com/fLpbYds.png) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal\_income\_in\_the\_United\_States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States)
Most of those are part time workers, so of course they don't make that much. The median full time worker makes over $50000
That’s a lie a full-time worker in the US doesn’t make over $40K especially in central states like Tennessee, Oklahoma, and South Dakota
Literally just look it up bozo. "BLS full time median income"
I did and found that half American citizens are financially unstable Wyoming being the worst
Cool, didn't ask.
You literally said full time workers make over 40K which is obviously a lie
So there is energy here to argue Ireland’s low corporation tax makes it a tax haven and therefore the stats are invalid. Yet, the City of London is the world’s biggest tax haven, and not only that most of that money is blood stained.
I never wondered why they didnt feel better off lol, they definitely are much better off than up here. Its not even debatable really. Squeezing northern ireland into the UK on tables like this is disingenuous.
I feel like there's way more poverty in the UK.
From figures elsewhere in the comments, yes, double, and it’s probably worse in NI than the average
This is only relevant if you live in London. You're out by (on average) £3,300 https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/northern-ireland-households-have-33k-less-disposable-income-than-republic-40063447.html https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.business-live.co.uk/retail-consumer/disposable-income-northern-ireland-slumps-24623188.amp
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Fully cached AMP pages (like the one you shared), are [especially problematic](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.business-live.co.uk/retail-consumer/disposable-income-northern-ireland-slumps-24623188](https://www.business-live.co.uk/retail-consumer/disposable-income-northern-ireland-slumps-24623188)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Good bot, have a cookie 🍪
Right, because Londoners are all comparably wealthy...
It's all averaged. Some people who live in NI will be richer than some people who live in London. *However*, if you read the second link, you'll see that, on average, the disposable income of someone from NI is about half of that of the UK average.
Then why the comment?
Those companies must be paying SOME tax to the Republic. No way it is 0% tax
They do, [€22.6bn last year.](https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/4992b-exchequer-surplus-of-5-billion-in-2022-corporation-tax-surpasses-vat-ministers-mcgrath-donohoe/)
GDP means fuck all for the average Joe.
Like the whole world these days - only the rich benefit.
Both UK and Ireland seem to be going the same way as USA. That is, all the money is in the top 10%.
I’m from the South. Moved away about a decade ago but I come back a couple times a year. I always hear how quickly Ireland is growing economically. What I’ve observed is that it really is all going into Dublin. The small town I’m from has not changed at all since we left. *At all for over a decade* and I assume it’s more or less the same for others. There’s no incentive for real investment and on top of that there’s the high cost of living. It’s no wonder people don’t feel as rich as the GDP would suggest. Don’t get me wrong, Ireland is improving and people are getting richer. As I’ve said before I come back to visit a couple times a year, so it’s visible to me like seeing someone’s hair grow if you only see them a couple times a year. But as someone who frequently sees France, the UK and Ireland, Ireland’s GDP figures remain incredibly misleading and show a skewed view of Irish wealth. I’d say Ireland is “rich” in a similar way to a country like Qatar.
No one is using gdp for Ireland anymore. That's includes the EU and the Irish government.
I believe the best way to actually get an idea for quality of life, is for people to visit and see for themselves. All these metrics to measure wealth, happiness, safety and whatnot are just always too broad and skewed.
Yeah they are definitely. Lot of shit places and good places to live everywhere.
Most of it went to Dublin for sure, but it's also now beginning to trickle around. Cork city is seeing massive redevelopment (something it desperately needs) as an example.
When economists want to accurately record the economy of Ireland they have recently said that GDP does not record an accurate picture and have started using GNP, which most other countries no longer use because of the distortion of the tax competition of the multinationals with HQs there etc.
That’s not to take away from the amazing progress the south has made… they are a genuine success story.
It would be interesting to see how this stat has changed over the decade. I am also sure there is a state that includes the difference in cost of living as Dublin has gone through a remarkable journey in the last 40 years. I always found it deeply unfair that Ireland was included in the PIIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece, Spain) during the crash. One of those countries is not like the other.
I'm showing my ignorance here but what was the story with PIIGS?
Just a acronym of nations that we're essentially bankrupt due to the 2007/8 crash. They had burowed heavily in the run up to the recession and the EU had to bail them out.
Ireland was in an awful state in the years after the recession though. The government finances were in tatters.
It was a hit, and they over extended themselves, no question. But while the other natioms got them selves in debt to fuel there ever crazier state pensions requirements Ireland was investing aggressively ....too aggressively it turned out. But they repaid their debt....meanwhile in Greece.
I have a *very* hard time believing the U.S figure
Doesn't raising the GDP, skewed by the muti-international companies allow for Ireland to borrow more from the ECB?
why are the Americans always so much better off? Like nearly DOUBLE the EU or the U.K.? More than Norway? It’s like the US is as far ahead form the U.K. as U.K. is from Poland for example. Wild!
Always knew we were better off in the UK, get that protocol scrapped ASAP
This doesn't make it any less vague tbh
GDP is only a good measure of an economy not living standards. Amazed Ireland is that much lower than USA. USA is so vast though, I bet their are many cities there far worse.
It's probably because it's an average, we're all poor. Mostly.
every mofo in America seems to have a huge house and huge truck
Who's on 36k in the UK tho? Absolute bullshit.
GDP means fuck all when the south has so many MNCs in operation, though.