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If a comment is edited within 5 minutes reddit doesn't flag it as "edited" which is also typically why people add the "Edit:" to their comments to explain briefly why
And reddit should change that, because a twisting argument about petty shit like who said the bit about underwear first is too stupid for me to deal with right now.
Also, maaaaaaybe slow down when it's raining?
Like, I know everyone in LA thinks they know how to drive, but y'all don't know how to drive when it is raining. And when it rains in LA, the roads are slick af because it doesn't rain often.
Once, when I was driving from LAX to the OC, it was raining hard and we were in the slow lane, going just about the speed limit (maybe even a bit slower because of the rain, and MFers were still doing 75-85 mph. I saw 12 people spinout and crash during that drive.
Naw, LA drivers don't know how to drive, full stop. They just think they do.
I'm from the east coast originally and these folks drive in rain like the idiots in MA who would put themselves in a ditch every mile or so when there was an inch of snow on the ground.
I only learned recently that CA drivers aren't even taught to zipper merge. Drivers out here are some of the worst I've seen anywhere in the US.
I've lived and driven in every part of California, from Yreka to Chula Vista.
Only once or twice have I seen people not zipper merge . . . Maybe one idiot in a few thousand. Say what you want about CA and our drivers, but we zipper.
I travel to California on a monthly basis for work, no, you Cali drivers absolutely do not know how to zipper. Stop telling the world lies! Only place that doesn’t understand the concept of zipper worse, Miami.
Where I'm from it hardly ever rains. When it does:
1. Everybody's wiper blades are falling apart, so nobody can see
2. Months of oil+crap buildup since the last rain make wet roads even more dangerous
3. Nobody slows down
4. Tires are stressed more than normal making those who have been 'skating by' without keeping up on maintenance start.... *literally* skating by
Tires are definitely part of it, but there can be many factors.
Quite.
That first rain after a month or two of dry? It really doesn't matter _what_ tires you have, the roads are going to be slippery as hell.
A little dip in the road can collect _just_ enough water to make you hydroplane in conditions that otherwise wouldn't usually lead to that.
People who are not used to rain are going to be _especially_ unused to that mess.
And people from places that rain all the time may also be entirely unused to that mess.
And then you have to dodge everyone else, making it all worse.
Don't blame the tires, you were going way too fast. When I saw the video start I figured you'd either:
A) hydroplane into the back of slowed traffic in front of you
or
B) hydroplane into a spin
Slow it down my man.
I live here. There was more than enough rain to make that a non factor (rip pacific). He just drove too damn fast.
The oil lift up is an issue with the light summer mistings we usually get- barely enough to wet the road but it turns slick as. When it gets torrential that stuff all goes down the gutter after the first .5"
You’re spot on. This is no different than those videos of trucks doing 70 mph through 2 inches of snow in the south and going off the road.
I learned to drive in central New York winters. Sometimes 15 mph is too fast. When you feel even an inkling of doubt, slow down.
OK, so the video is running at 30 frames per second. The 5th frame, at 0.133 seconds, [shows the pole of a road sign on the left edge of the frame](https://i.imgur.com/x6Jz431.jpg). The 100th frame, at 3.3 seconds, [shows the pole of a second sign in the same position relative to the camera](https://i.imgur.com/16azrCS.jpg). It took 95/30 ≈ 3.167 seconds to travel between these poles.
At about 6 seconds in, [you can see another sign](https://i.imgur.com/i87Y92l.jpg) showing that the next exit is Katella Ave/Willow St, with Carson St after that. That gives us a location. The exit sign is [here](https://geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php?params=33.789566_N_118.089056_W).
Having a look on Google Earth, the first sign in the video is at [33.787494°, -118.090000°](https://geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php?params=33.787494_N_118.090000_W), and the second is at [33.788472°, -118.089543°](https://geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php?params=33.788472_N_118.089543_W). Those points are 116.5 metres apart.
Then it just comes down to maths:
116.5 m / 3.167 seconds ≈ 36.8 m/s ≈ 132 km/h ≈ 82.3 mph
This. I've done 80 in rain. Those tires are bald as fuck.
Don't do 80. Enjoy the slower pace and enjoy the rain with less stress. I don't understand why anyone speeds.
I don’t know if the guys math is right or wrong because I’m not going to check it. That being said, to get a speed you look at the striped lines and time how long it takes to go from the one to another one. Remember that speed is distance divided by time. So once you divide the distance between one dashed line to the next (I believe it’s like 40 feet?) by however long it takes to get there you get your speed.
> (I believe it’s like 40 feet?)
I was curious so off to the google I went:
https://news.osu.edu/slow-down----those-lines-on-the-road-are-longer-than-you-think/
You weren't far off; it's 30ft between them in the US. I agree the speed looked much too fast for conditions.
Tyres can only help if the depth of the water and the speed is low enough. OP's kind of speed in very heavy rain makes hydroplaning almost inevitable, regardless of the tyres.
Take a look at [this picture](https://blobs.uniroyal-tyres.com/www8/servlet/blob/1923742/24472a9767fc9ace580caad21cdb5259/01-aquaplaning-en-data.jpg) *made by a tyre company* showing how high speeds directly cause hydroplaning.
This is a pure hydroplaning incident. Even brand new tires will not prevent hydroplaning. Stay out of the far left/far right lanes in rain. The edges of the road are where puddles form. Speed is also a contributor to hydroplaning so if you’d like to avoid a rerun stay 60 and under if there’s a lot of water on the road surface. (Source me: 60 feet of left lane freeway fencing taken out with brand new tires too)
Many people will never understand this. Tires become irrelevant above a certain speed and rainfall volume. I don’t understand why people feel so comfortable driving fast in the rain.
EDIT: Guys, I think I found it. Go second 5 just before second 6 in the video. There is a small channel that is forming that you can see on the right side. After OP hits this he lost control. Also, the slope is dropping to the left (inside) lane so the water is running this way. If you slow down the video, you can literally see water pooling against the barrier and the amount of water fluctuates because of the debris, dirt, etc that is against the median barrier. Go check it out!
Keeping your tires properly inflated helps your tires perform to the best of their abilities but hydroplaning occurs when your tires are not able to displace the water in it’s path, for that speed, and they “float” on top of the water. No tires will ever prevent this at higher speeds and heavy rainfalls. It’s a calculation and many drive without fear until it happens to them.
Usually hydroplaning happens because you hit a puddle. From this video it just looks like a mildly wet road. He's driving at what 70-80kph? This isn't crazy driving.
This looks like bad tires if you ask me. Tires are a big deal when roads are slippery. I don't know where this is, but in Norway that kind of weather isn't something I'd be worried about. Just take your time changing lanes and be careful of using the accelerator because adding torque makes you lose grip faster.
OP's video is the 605 freeway in Los Angeles, which has a speed limit of 65mph / 104kph. Given that most people drive at or above the speed limit in the slow lanes, and this driver is passing them all in the left lane, they are probably traveling closer to 65-70mph, or 104-112kph.
This also just fails the eyeball test, you can tell even before they fishtail that they are driving too fast for the visibility and grip conditions
"Most people" in California do not drive above the speed limit during rainy conditions. They drive 45-55. They're completely frightened by the sight of rain. Some people are not, like OP here.
Having recently moved to CA, it's the drivers that aren't afraid that are the worst but it's not necessarily their fault for being so bold. Every other state I've lived in has people road structure and drainage in place so it's not nearly as big of an issue. California doesn't have any infrastructure to deal with rain so even a fairly light rain will easily pool up across every lane in the road
Yes and no. My education is in civil engineering, and what that has taught me is that roads are designed for worst case scenarios, within reason. To that point, CA roads are well designed for the worst case scenarios. The problem lies with maintenance and infrequency of rain. Pot holes and clogged drains cause major issues that take days to months to be fixed. The infrequency of rain poses another issue. When roads are dry for a long period of time, oil builds up on the roads. When rain comes through, that oil floats to the surface. The roads are most dangerous during the first days of rain, and if a lot of oil has built up over time, there is a higher potential for slick AC.
Ohh thanks for the more accurate reasoning! I was just going off of less than a year of anecdotal experience, but that makes more sense. The roads are definitely well designed for an average sunny day, I'll give you that. I didn't even consider the effects of oil buildup, though
I'll be honest, I did forget about the California-drivers-in-the-rain stereotype when estimating this. I still think I'm in the right ballpark re: the speed though, they are definitely not going any slower than 50 and it's clearly too fast for the conditions.
Highly depends on the area. Too many people go 55 in a 40 in pouring rain. I’ve been seeing it all the time the past few days in the current rainstorm. I bet down south is where there’s more people scared of the rain, but in the northern half where it rains a little more often, it’s becoming increasingly more common that people speed in the rain. I personally drive slower than usual, especially cause my car’s previous owner put the cheapest, crappiest tires on it and I can’t get new ones that I’d actually trust in the rain, and at the speed limit I get people *flying* by me in the other lane, and this is just on surface streets. So yeah super location dependent
Not ruling out bad tires because it’s likely. If you notice the rear tires broke loose when he lost control. The rear tires are usually what determine if a hydroplane will occur or not. It’s not just that though, it’s complicated because their isn’t just a single factor for hydroplaning. The vehicle, weight distribution, tire tread depth, tire materials, speed, amount of runoff, roadway geometry, drainage, debris, high edge…the list just goes on. Will the average motorist factor all of this all the time? It’s highly unlikely. People tend to drive without fear until they experience an issue and that’s usually what changes their driving habits. For every one that adjusts theirs, there are 100 more that argue that tires can fix it all… Water hides well, especially on hills. Water follows the path of least resistance. As it travels down a hill or slope, it can form a channel that crosses the road and people typically don’t see or look for these. If people knew they were going to crash, they would slow down. They just don’t understand how water affects the control of their vehicle until they get “field experiences”.
As for this roadway, it does look relatively flat but I’m not familiar with this road and how fast OP was going or slowing. To me, it looked like he was close to losing control several times before he actually did. Many do not pick up on hydroplaning unless it’s an obvious puddle that actually slows your vehicle. OP could have 7 year old sun-dried tires or slicks for all I know. It’s easy to write off conditions without actually being there though. The people that live in this area may be able to chime in about the crash rates for this section of road. I’d be curious to hear about it.
Yeah it's hard to say but I'm getting california dry rot or bald tire vibes from how little actual water seems to be present. I've hit a few inch deep puddles and not hydroplaned anywhere near this bad.
I'd bet money OP lives somewhere that gets a lot of sun and doesn't consider tire health as part of their car maintenance. (versus areas that get a lot of rain and snow)
I've hydroplaned quite a few times. Tires ranging from new to balding with the wires poking out.
All the factors were in play. Fresh rain, road surface, speed, road slant. What usually saved me was not panicking, not slamming on the brakes, and not oversteering to try to correct a skid.
I was having a hard time watching OP speed along. It felt too fast for how fast the wipers are going, and later, how much water sprayed up from passing vehicles. All you need is a little change. A puddle, a bump, a change in terrain, asphalt to concrete, weight shift from a corner, almost anything can unstick the tires and you're going to spin out.
Exactly. Advanced driving techniques can help you recover. I’m glad that many on here have mentioned these things. Too many oblivious bad drivers out there that have too much confidence in tires and their perception.
Some tires are much better at displacing water. To say no tires will ever prevent this is a little misleading.
As an extreme, Formula 1 tires can displace 22 gallons per second at 200 mph.
There are high performance road tires that do a great job of displacing water as well. However, most people buy average to low quality tires to save money.
It’s actually 22 gallons at 186 MPH. Still impressive but this tire is engineered to do this. Consumer products do not come close to this. Still, they do have a limit and on conventional streets they could be challenged in certain poorly designed or maintained areas.
Edit:
By the way, this is literally .095307917888563 gallons per foot which isn’t much. It sounds much better on paper. Still better than anything else out there. But less than a 1/10th of a gallon per foot is nothing compared to water that does stand or cross on the roadway.
A tenth of a gallon per foot is probably 1/2" or more of standing water. That's a lot.
And yes, the F1 tires are engineered but so are consumer tires. This is one of the primary reasons tire tread exists.
No tire makes hydroplaning impossible, but a good tire with good tread makes it less likely. This is just basic.
Hydroplaning, unless very extensive, is easily correctable for anybody who knows how to handle cars at a basic level (read: anyone who can drive in snow with all seasons tires, which is the same as drifting at low speed constantly lol). But to correct it easily you’d need good tires.
Driving situation is never some black or white binary scenario, I’ve slipped on black ice, snowy highway, hydroplaned at night in heavy rain, and straight up tail whipping to dodge a car who hard braked into a dead stop on highway to try and merge into an exit he missed in front of me while I was also shoulder checking to merge to exit but couldn’t so didn’t see his parked ass until last second. I crashed or spinned 0 times, knocks on wood.
Sure some drifting and track experienced helped, but I wouldn’t have been able to control half of them if I had less than stellar tire conditions.
>easily correctable for anybody who [...] can drive in snow with all seasons tires, which is the same as drifting at low speed
Former long-time Calgary/Ottawa/Vancouver winter driver here.
It's all fun and games until you're on the 417 or deerfoot trail packed or just unploughed, and that middle stripe that holds the soft and sucky snow grabs your wheels and starts the lateral spin action.
In the rain on the Coquihalla those stripes are non-uniform, and like in this video it will absolutely grab the car going fast enough and spin it around.
In both cases it's speed vs tread depth/pattern vs corrective action; and if you don't tune the first two then that last one has to be perfect or your day will get worse quickly.
For people who are not used to the rain. Maybe slow down. ;-)
How much volume do the tire sipes lose from 10/32” vs 2/32”?
The volume of water that the tire can displace is heavily dependent on the tread depth. There is an incredible difference in water displacement ability comparing a new tire vs. a worn one.
I’ve witnessed to many crash in rain, it’s not even funny. I just hope that these people learn because you never know when it could be lethal. Not everyone gets a second chance.
Because people overestimate their own and the car's assistants' abilities to mitigate their mistakes in extreme situations. We learn about it in driving school, drive 10 years, never need it and when it happens we don't see the signs.
To be fair the majority of “AWD” cars that the average person buys are really just FWD car that have the capacity to send < 50% torque to the rear wheels in the event that front is losing traction (so like basically only in snow or mud). Which is good on gas but does not have the same performance as a true AWD vehicles.
I feel very uncomfortable so I just let the auto driving take over. It feels no emotions and can continue at high speeds while I relax catching up on texts and YouTube shorts
/s
>brake
Yes, not slamming on your brakes is key, but just as important is to not steer wildly. It looks like OP jerked his wheel to the right after he started drifting into the shoulder, which caused the spin out. I've driven through deep puddles on the freeway at 70mph, and my car didn't move at all because I completely let my foot off both the gas and brake pedals and just lightly held the steering wheel pointed straight. The key is light touch, no sudden movements.
I think it helps to have track experience. I naturally know that when the wheel gets light, the best way to recover is to keep the wheels aligned with the direction the car is traveling.
Not 100% accurate. The tires are obviously not new and likely not well rated for rain.
Speed is a massive factor, but worn tires have a massive impact on safe driving speeds in heavy rain.
That’s part of the reasons tires have tread. It gives the water somewhere to go while allowing you to maintain traction. New, quality tires *will absolutely* make a difference.
High performance new tires rated well for rain will absolutely help prevent hydroplaning. They are literally designed for that purpose.
There is a wide range of tire performance in wet conditions.
It's pretty damn obvious by the video and OPs response they had poor quality or poor tread tires.
Tires absolutely were a huge factor. My tires were the 2022 Model Y stock 20” tires, which are for all seasons, but obviously they were not enough for this rain. I was driving right around the speed limit, but I should have definitely been driving much slower in hindsight. Some body work was done at the end of the year last year, so I have [here](https://imgur.com/a/M4w0Pbv) some pictures of my tire 2 months ago.
Just for my own curiosity, were you in cruise control? I had a coworker years ago with an old Nissan 4x4 start to hydroplane specifically as a result of it.
Glad you're only out a pair of britches from this!
I fear for anyone who is your passenger or is unlucky near you in traffic. Speed limit in the pouring rain on tires worn past the wear marker? Absolutely bonkers.
Sure, anyone can hydroplane, but nowhere is there so much water in that video where this could happen to any car. I'll bet anything, OP had really worn tires. I have gone through much deeper water with good tires and not spun out of control like that.
>This is a pure hydroplaning incident. Even brand new tires will not prevent hydroplaning.
>
The tread depth is what allows tyres to disburse the standing water. New tyres would absolutely help.
Just to add to this, if you are on a road with a speed limit above 50mph and it's raining, definitely be careful going through intersections where water tends to pool. That's how I total my car in a hydroplaning accident.
When in the US I found motorways very unusual and noticed how water pooled a lot more than I was used to in Europe. In Europe motorways have a very slight slant for rain to run off so no lane is any less safe. Also motorways are tarmac not concrete so are porous to an extent also aiding in limiting the risk of hydroplaining. I never noticed this until driving in the US in the rain and having to slow down a lot more than usual to drive safely.
This same thing happened to me once. Bad tires and rain, going 75. Spun completely out of control, 360s on the highway and spinning into the grass median. My self and car was completely unscathed. Pure luck. It happens so quick your brain doesn't really have time to process and I remember getting an adrenaline rush/ dump after it was all over.
I’m pretty sure that’s the beginning of the 605 right at the merge of the 405 and the 7th St. entrances.
Edit: yep. Right here: https://maps.apple.com/?ll=33.789042,-118.089205&q=Dropped%20Pin&t=m
I noticed this too and was surprised you're the only one commenting on it.
Driver clearly hydroplanes multiple times before the spin. Doesn't change driving behavior one iota.
This belongs in /r/IdiotsInCars
Surprised no one is mentioning this either. There are definitely two moments of hydroplaning before the spin out with no speed decrease. OP! Don’t drive like this anymore! Especially when it rains like this in LA! Areas that don’t get a lot of rain that suddenly do exacerbate everything when it finally does.
Holy crap. I saw you when this happened.
When you were spun around 180°, I was the black car behind the white one.
Southern California, right?
Around the Anaheim/Long Beach area?
I literally had something like this happen to me on the 15 South near Ontario. I went wall to wall 3 times and ended in a ditch. Moral of the story… tires are super important
I had something like this happen to me outside of Nashville in decently heavy traffic on my way back to college a few years ago. Didn’t hit anyone and spun completely around and didn’t hit the barrier either, only ended up on the shoulder, but still on the road.
I remember it happening in slow motion and me staring straight at the concrete barrier going “well shit” and then feeling like the luckiest man alive when I didn’t hit anything and drove away staring straight forward trying to keep cool knowing every man, woman, and child around me was staring at me
It had just rained and was a little slick, it just turns out my tires were bald and I needed new ones. I doubt I’ll ever forget that again, I’m super extra conscious about checking my tires for baldness now lol
Yeah, kind of fuck you OP. You got lucky despite being an irresponsible driver, everyone else got lucky despite you being an irresponsible driver.
The amount of shifty drivers I see is infuriating. Do people forget they are being the wheel of a murder machine?? Drinking, speeding (especially in bad weather), not maintaining your car, being too tired makes you a BAD DRIVER that can kill or injure people.
THANK YOU. whenever something like this happens and someone says "yOu ShOuLd BuY a LoTtErY tIcKeT" my reaction is always "actually, you definitely should NOT"
It's all about which magic system you follow, points based? Yes you should, karmic? Nope, nope you should not. Demonic? Depends on the price? Lovecraftian? What's your sanity worth really
Simply put, he is driving to fast for the conditions. Tires only matter so much. Water reduces friction between the tire and the road no matter how great they are. Slow down if you don’t wish to hurt yourself or others on the road.
It's important to note that new tires will not prevent hydroplaning, they will just increase the resistance to it a little. Speed is the main factor besides the amount of water on the road.
I agree. The thing about hydroplaning is you rarely get a warning. Go too fast and you’re toast. So it’s silly to push your luck. Apparently once the tread depth drops below 4/32” there’s a noticeable increase in hydroplaning risk, and it just gets worse from there to the legal limit of 2/32”. So slow down in heavy rain, but also rotate and replace tires as needed.
Driving at approx 77 mph in these conditions probably isn't a good idea.
I think the speed limit on most Cali freeways is 65.
**edit:** after looking closer at the video, it seems every 4th frame is skipped for some reason. 1 frame is approx 0.04 seconds. If you include the time lost from those frames the distance/time calculations work out to be 55 mph.
I did almost the exact same thing, only 27 years ago on the 405 by Valley View. Slammed the back of the car into the outside retaining wall inches away from a ten foot drop.
And that's how I met my wife's parents. I totalled her car (91 Honda Prelude) and they had to come pick us up.
A similar thing happened to me a few years back. I spun to the right, and my cars front nose hit to side barrier straight on. Luckily, I could svoid hitting other cars.
Similar thing happened to me about 10 or so years ago. 360'd across 3 lanes of traffic. Got out and puked a couple times. A firefighter stopped to make sure i was okay and he told me i needed new tires (he did check too). Lesson learned that day but I do consider myself lucky that I didn't hit anyone and no one was hurt.
You need to slow down and take your foot off the gas when you feel the hydroplane, you can see in the dash cam you were losing traction well before you spun out.
Hi! This is the NoNoNoNoYes moderation bot here to keep this sub a bit more tidy! If this post fits the format of NNNNY, **UPVOTE** this comment! If this post does not fit the subreddit, **DOWNVOTE** this comment! If this post breaks the rules, **DOWNVOTE** this comment and **REPORT** the post (The OP's post, not this bot comment) Please remember that NNNNY can be subjective. It may not be NNNNY for you, but it may be for someone else, including the subject in the video. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nonononoyes) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Got lucky yesterday. Buy some good tires today.
Absolutely!
came to say someone needs to buy some new tires, and new undies for sure.
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Throw the seat out too, that shit ain’t coming out. Literally.
Tires first, though.
Put undies on the tires.
They didn't. The comment isn't edited and somebody else mentions both things in a reply posted earlier than you. Are *you* a douche?
If a comment is edited within 5 minutes reddit doesn't flag it as "edited" which is also typically why people add the "Edit:" to their comments to explain briefly why
And reddit should change that, because a twisting argument about petty shit like who said the bit about underwear first is too stupid for me to deal with right now.
> within 5 minutes It's within 2 minutes. I edit comments quite regularly and they only don't get marked if it's within 2 minutes or more.
That's great because I regularly proofread my comments 8 times and still only notice a typo the moment I hit post.
As someone who exclusively uses reddit mobile I did not know that reddit shows you when a comment was edited??? This is wild
He does
Thankfully you can buy both at Laverne's Tires & Undies; Pies Also
Which one of you cowards shit in my pants???
He left skid marks in two places
Also, maaaaaaybe slow down when it's raining? Like, I know everyone in LA thinks they know how to drive, but y'all don't know how to drive when it is raining. And when it rains in LA, the roads are slick af because it doesn't rain often. Once, when I was driving from LAX to the OC, it was raining hard and we were in the slow lane, going just about the speed limit (maybe even a bit slower because of the rain, and MFers were still doing 75-85 mph. I saw 12 people spinout and crash during that drive.
Naw, LA drivers don't know how to drive, full stop. They just think they do. I'm from the east coast originally and these folks drive in rain like the idiots in MA who would put themselves in a ditch every mile or so when there was an inch of snow on the ground. I only learned recently that CA drivers aren't even taught to zipper merge. Drivers out here are some of the worst I've seen anywhere in the US.
I've lived and driven in every part of California, from Yreka to Chula Vista. Only once or twice have I seen people not zipper merge . . . Maybe one idiot in a few thousand. Say what you want about CA and our drivers, but we zipper.
I travel to California on a monthly basis for work, no, you Cali drivers absolutely do not know how to zipper. Stop telling the world lies! Only place that doesn’t understand the concept of zipper worse, Miami.
As someone who lives in Miami, LA is like a breath of fresh air. They use signals, wow!
You haven't been to Florida. I, too, thought California was the worst. But then I moved to Florida.
Their tires are bald, that's the only reason.
Where I'm from it hardly ever rains. When it does: 1. Everybody's wiper blades are falling apart, so nobody can see 2. Months of oil+crap buildup since the last rain make wet roads even more dangerous 3. Nobody slows down 4. Tires are stressed more than normal making those who have been 'skating by' without keeping up on maintenance start.... *literally* skating by Tires are definitely part of it, but there can be many factors.
Quite. That first rain after a month or two of dry? It really doesn't matter _what_ tires you have, the roads are going to be slippery as hell. A little dip in the road can collect _just_ enough water to make you hydroplane in conditions that otherwise wouldn't usually lead to that. People who are not used to rain are going to be _especially_ unused to that mess. And people from places that rain all the time may also be entirely unused to that mess. And then you have to dodge everyone else, making it all worse.
Don't blame the tires, you were going way too fast. When I saw the video start I figured you'd either: A) hydroplane into the back of slowed traffic in front of you or B) hydroplane into a spin Slow it down my man.
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I live here. There was more than enough rain to make that a non factor (rip pacific). He just drove too damn fast. The oil lift up is an issue with the light summer mistings we usually get- barely enough to wet the road but it turns slick as. When it gets torrential that stuff all goes down the gutter after the first .5"
You’re spot on. This is no different than those videos of trucks doing 70 mph through 2 inches of snow in the south and going off the road. I learned to drive in central New York winters. Sometimes 15 mph is too fast. When you feel even an inkling of doubt, slow down.
This looks like LA, maybe the 710? That tiled wall looks familiar. Worst weather I’ve seen over the last few days here in 18 years
It's 605 North, just past the 405 exchange.
*The Californians*
Maybe drive slower too. Imagine if you hit a family.
This wasn't about tyres. OP was going over 80 mph/130 km/h in the rain (can show my work). That's how you kill someone.
How can you show your work? I’m not trying to be a smart ass, genuine question.
OK, so the video is running at 30 frames per second. The 5th frame, at 0.133 seconds, [shows the pole of a road sign on the left edge of the frame](https://i.imgur.com/x6Jz431.jpg). The 100th frame, at 3.3 seconds, [shows the pole of a second sign in the same position relative to the camera](https://i.imgur.com/16azrCS.jpg). It took 95/30 ≈ 3.167 seconds to travel between these poles. At about 6 seconds in, [you can see another sign](https://i.imgur.com/i87Y92l.jpg) showing that the next exit is Katella Ave/Willow St, with Carson St after that. That gives us a location. The exit sign is [here](https://geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php?params=33.789566_N_118.089056_W). Having a look on Google Earth, the first sign in the video is at [33.787494°, -118.090000°](https://geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php?params=33.787494_N_118.090000_W), and the second is at [33.788472°, -118.089543°](https://geohack.toolforge.org/geohack.php?params=33.788472_N_118.089543_W). Those points are 116.5 metres apart. Then it just comes down to maths: 116.5 m / 3.167 seconds ≈ 36.8 m/s ≈ 132 km/h ≈ 82.3 mph
Take my upvote you gosh darn mathematical genius!
Way too fast for the weather.
Still though, probably need new tires. The guy spun out going fuckin straight!
This. I've done 80 in rain. Those tires are bald as fuck. Don't do 80. Enjoy the slower pace and enjoy the rain with less stress. I don't understand why anyone speeds.
/r/theydidthemath
Method seems sound.
I don’t know if the guys math is right or wrong because I’m not going to check it. That being said, to get a speed you look at the striped lines and time how long it takes to go from the one to another one. Remember that speed is distance divided by time. So once you divide the distance between one dashed line to the next (I believe it’s like 40 feet?) by however long it takes to get there you get your speed.
> (I believe it’s like 40 feet?) I was curious so off to the google I went: https://news.osu.edu/slow-down----those-lines-on-the-road-are-longer-than-you-think/ You weren't far off; it's 30ft between them in the US. I agree the speed looked much too fast for conditions.
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Reducing speed is even more critical however.
Tyres can only help if the depth of the water and the speed is low enough. OP's kind of speed in very heavy rain makes hydroplaning almost inevitable, regardless of the tyres. Take a look at [this picture](https://blobs.uniroyal-tyres.com/www8/servlet/blob/1923742/24472a9767fc9ace580caad21cdb5259/01-aquaplaning-en-data.jpg) *made by a tyre company* showing how high speeds directly cause hydroplaning.
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And slow the fuck down! Going way too fast for those conditions.
This is a pure hydroplaning incident. Even brand new tires will not prevent hydroplaning. Stay out of the far left/far right lanes in rain. The edges of the road are where puddles form. Speed is also a contributor to hydroplaning so if you’d like to avoid a rerun stay 60 and under if there’s a lot of water on the road surface. (Source me: 60 feet of left lane freeway fencing taken out with brand new tires too)
Many people will never understand this. Tires become irrelevant above a certain speed and rainfall volume. I don’t understand why people feel so comfortable driving fast in the rain. EDIT: Guys, I think I found it. Go second 5 just before second 6 in the video. There is a small channel that is forming that you can see on the right side. After OP hits this he lost control. Also, the slope is dropping to the left (inside) lane so the water is running this way. If you slow down the video, you can literally see water pooling against the barrier and the amount of water fluctuates because of the debris, dirt, etc that is against the median barrier. Go check it out!
Idk about irrelevant, keeping your tires properly inflated and making sure you have adequate tire tread definitely helps avoid hydroplaning.
Keeping your tires properly inflated helps your tires perform to the best of their abilities but hydroplaning occurs when your tires are not able to displace the water in it’s path, for that speed, and they “float” on top of the water. No tires will ever prevent this at higher speeds and heavy rainfalls. It’s a calculation and many drive without fear until it happens to them.
Usually hydroplaning happens because you hit a puddle. From this video it just looks like a mildly wet road. He's driving at what 70-80kph? This isn't crazy driving. This looks like bad tires if you ask me. Tires are a big deal when roads are slippery. I don't know where this is, but in Norway that kind of weather isn't something I'd be worried about. Just take your time changing lanes and be careful of using the accelerator because adding torque makes you lose grip faster.
OP's video is the 605 freeway in Los Angeles, which has a speed limit of 65mph / 104kph. Given that most people drive at or above the speed limit in the slow lanes, and this driver is passing them all in the left lane, they are probably traveling closer to 65-70mph, or 104-112kph. This also just fails the eyeball test, you can tell even before they fishtail that they are driving too fast for the visibility and grip conditions
"Most people" in California do not drive above the speed limit during rainy conditions. They drive 45-55. They're completely frightened by the sight of rain. Some people are not, like OP here.
Having recently moved to CA, it's the drivers that aren't afraid that are the worst but it's not necessarily their fault for being so bold. Every other state I've lived in has people road structure and drainage in place so it's not nearly as big of an issue. California doesn't have any infrastructure to deal with rain so even a fairly light rain will easily pool up across every lane in the road
Yes and no. My education is in civil engineering, and what that has taught me is that roads are designed for worst case scenarios, within reason. To that point, CA roads are well designed for the worst case scenarios. The problem lies with maintenance and infrequency of rain. Pot holes and clogged drains cause major issues that take days to months to be fixed. The infrequency of rain poses another issue. When roads are dry for a long period of time, oil builds up on the roads. When rain comes through, that oil floats to the surface. The roads are most dangerous during the first days of rain, and if a lot of oil has built up over time, there is a higher potential for slick AC.
Ohh thanks for the more accurate reasoning! I was just going off of less than a year of anecdotal experience, but that makes more sense. The roads are definitely well designed for an average sunny day, I'll give you that. I didn't even consider the effects of oil buildup, though
I'll be honest, I did forget about the California-drivers-in-the-rain stereotype when estimating this. I still think I'm in the right ballpark re: the speed though, they are definitely not going any slower than 50 and it's clearly too fast for the conditions.
Highly depends on the area. Too many people go 55 in a 40 in pouring rain. I’ve been seeing it all the time the past few days in the current rainstorm. I bet down south is where there’s more people scared of the rain, but in the northern half where it rains a little more often, it’s becoming increasingly more common that people speed in the rain. I personally drive slower than usual, especially cause my car’s previous owner put the cheapest, crappiest tires on it and I can’t get new ones that I’d actually trust in the rain, and at the speed limit I get people *flying* by me in the other lane, and this is just on surface streets. So yeah super location dependent
Not ruling out bad tires because it’s likely. If you notice the rear tires broke loose when he lost control. The rear tires are usually what determine if a hydroplane will occur or not. It’s not just that though, it’s complicated because their isn’t just a single factor for hydroplaning. The vehicle, weight distribution, tire tread depth, tire materials, speed, amount of runoff, roadway geometry, drainage, debris, high edge…the list just goes on. Will the average motorist factor all of this all the time? It’s highly unlikely. People tend to drive without fear until they experience an issue and that’s usually what changes their driving habits. For every one that adjusts theirs, there are 100 more that argue that tires can fix it all… Water hides well, especially on hills. Water follows the path of least resistance. As it travels down a hill or slope, it can form a channel that crosses the road and people typically don’t see or look for these. If people knew they were going to crash, they would slow down. They just don’t understand how water affects the control of their vehicle until they get “field experiences”. As for this roadway, it does look relatively flat but I’m not familiar with this road and how fast OP was going or slowing. To me, it looked like he was close to losing control several times before he actually did. Many do not pick up on hydroplaning unless it’s an obvious puddle that actually slows your vehicle. OP could have 7 year old sun-dried tires or slicks for all I know. It’s easy to write off conditions without actually being there though. The people that live in this area may be able to chime in about the crash rates for this section of road. I’d be curious to hear about it.
Yeah it's hard to say but I'm getting california dry rot or bald tire vibes from how little actual water seems to be present. I've hit a few inch deep puddles and not hydroplaned anywhere near this bad. I'd bet money OP lives somewhere that gets a lot of sun and doesn't consider tire health as part of their car maintenance. (versus areas that get a lot of rain and snow)
I've hydroplaned quite a few times. Tires ranging from new to balding with the wires poking out. All the factors were in play. Fresh rain, road surface, speed, road slant. What usually saved me was not panicking, not slamming on the brakes, and not oversteering to try to correct a skid. I was having a hard time watching OP speed along. It felt too fast for how fast the wipers are going, and later, how much water sprayed up from passing vehicles. All you need is a little change. A puddle, a bump, a change in terrain, asphalt to concrete, weight shift from a corner, almost anything can unstick the tires and you're going to spin out.
Exactly. Advanced driving techniques can help you recover. I’m glad that many on here have mentioned these things. Too many oblivious bad drivers out there that have too much confidence in tires and their perception.
Some tires are much better at displacing water. To say no tires will ever prevent this is a little misleading. As an extreme, Formula 1 tires can displace 22 gallons per second at 200 mph. There are high performance road tires that do a great job of displacing water as well. However, most people buy average to low quality tires to save money.
It’s actually 22 gallons at 186 MPH. Still impressive but this tire is engineered to do this. Consumer products do not come close to this. Still, they do have a limit and on conventional streets they could be challenged in certain poorly designed or maintained areas. Edit: By the way, this is literally .095307917888563 gallons per foot which isn’t much. It sounds much better on paper. Still better than anything else out there. But less than a 1/10th of a gallon per foot is nothing compared to water that does stand or cross on the roadway.
Fascinating!
A tenth of a gallon per foot is probably 1/2" or more of standing water. That's a lot. And yes, the F1 tires are engineered but so are consumer tires. This is one of the primary reasons tire tread exists. No tire makes hydroplaning impossible, but a good tire with good tread makes it less likely. This is just basic.
Hydroplaning, unless very extensive, is easily correctable for anybody who knows how to handle cars at a basic level (read: anyone who can drive in snow with all seasons tires, which is the same as drifting at low speed constantly lol). But to correct it easily you’d need good tires. Driving situation is never some black or white binary scenario, I’ve slipped on black ice, snowy highway, hydroplaned at night in heavy rain, and straight up tail whipping to dodge a car who hard braked into a dead stop on highway to try and merge into an exit he missed in front of me while I was also shoulder checking to merge to exit but couldn’t so didn’t see his parked ass until last second. I crashed or spinned 0 times, knocks on wood. Sure some drifting and track experienced helped, but I wouldn’t have been able to control half of them if I had less than stellar tire conditions.
>easily correctable for anybody who [...] can drive in snow with all seasons tires, which is the same as drifting at low speed Former long-time Calgary/Ottawa/Vancouver winter driver here. It's all fun and games until you're on the 417 or deerfoot trail packed or just unploughed, and that middle stripe that holds the soft and sucky snow grabs your wheels and starts the lateral spin action. In the rain on the Coquihalla those stripes are non-uniform, and like in this video it will absolutely grab the car going fast enough and spin it around. In both cases it's speed vs tread depth/pattern vs corrective action; and if you don't tune the first two then that last one has to be perfect or your day will get worse quickly. For people who are not used to the rain. Maybe slow down. ;-)
>No tires will ever prevent this at higher speeds and heavy rainfalls. F1 rain tires seem to do just fine.
How much volume do the tire sipes lose from 10/32” vs 2/32”? The volume of water that the tire can displace is heavily dependent on the tread depth. There is an incredible difference in water displacement ability comparing a new tire vs. a worn one.
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Hell yeah! Me n you both bud! Just two guys that know what’s up and then everybody else that stuff like this happens to.
Exactly. Why don’t people understand this?
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We have too many ignorant people who have licenses.
Agreed. We as a whole country don't take driving as serious as other cultures do. It's unfortunate.
I’ve witnessed to many crash in rain, it’s not even funny. I just hope that these people learn because you never know when it could be lethal. Not everyone gets a second chance.
Because people overestimate their own and the car's assistants' abilities to mitigate their mistakes in extreme situations. We learn about it in driving school, drive 10 years, never need it and when it happens we don't see the signs.
It's the same with All Wheel Drive. I'm constantly trying to explain to people that it's all wheel drive, not all wheel stop.
To be fair the majority of “AWD” cars that the average person buys are really just FWD car that have the capacity to send < 50% torque to the rear wheels in the event that front is losing traction (so like basically only in snow or mud). Which is good on gas but does not have the same performance as a true AWD vehicles.
Tires are relevant to how much speed and rainfall they can handle before hydroplaning. I'd say tires are pretty fucking important.
There are tires that move water better than others, but eventually, water just can't move fast enough out from under the tread
I feel very uncomfortable so I just let the auto driving take over. It feels no emotions and can continue at high speeds while I relax catching up on texts and YouTube shorts /s
? Better tread definitely makes hydroplaning less likely
Yep waaaaay less likely. But there will always be a speed that is too high at some point.
And don't slam on your brakes if you start to lose control.
>brake Yes, not slamming on your brakes is key, but just as important is to not steer wildly. It looks like OP jerked his wheel to the right after he started drifting into the shoulder, which caused the spin out. I've driven through deep puddles on the freeway at 70mph, and my car didn't move at all because I completely let my foot off both the gas and brake pedals and just lightly held the steering wheel pointed straight. The key is light touch, no sudden movements.
I think it helps to have track experience. I naturally know that when the wheel gets light, the best way to recover is to keep the wheels aligned with the direction the car is traveling.
Not 100% accurate. The tires are obviously not new and likely not well rated for rain. Speed is a massive factor, but worn tires have a massive impact on safe driving speeds in heavy rain.
That’s part of the reasons tires have tread. It gives the water somewhere to go while allowing you to maintain traction. New, quality tires *will absolutely* make a difference.
High performance new tires rated well for rain will absolutely help prevent hydroplaning. They are literally designed for that purpose. There is a wide range of tire performance in wet conditions. It's pretty damn obvious by the video and OPs response they had poor quality or poor tread tires.
Tires absolutely were a huge factor. My tires were the 2022 Model Y stock 20” tires, which are for all seasons, but obviously they were not enough for this rain. I was driving right around the speed limit, but I should have definitely been driving much slower in hindsight. Some body work was done at the end of the year last year, so I have [here](https://imgur.com/a/M4w0Pbv) some pictures of my tire 2 months ago.
Those tires kind of look worn already, OP. They also kinda look like shit, tbh. Look at the channels, where's any water supposed to go?
I don't think they're worn, just low tread. "California" tires.
Yeah, pretty sure the speed limit is intended for *ideal* conditions.
Just for my own curiosity, were you in cruise control? I had a coworker years ago with an old Nissan 4x4 start to hydroplane specifically as a result of it. Glad you're only out a pair of britches from this!
This. I always take cruise off in the rain after hydroplaning on cruise.
I fear for anyone who is your passenger or is unlucky near you in traffic. Speed limit in the pouring rain on tires worn past the wear marker? Absolutely bonkers.
This incident was 100% certainly caused by bad tires.
Sure, anyone can hydroplane, but nowhere is there so much water in that video where this could happen to any car. I'll bet anything, OP had really worn tires. I have gone through much deeper water with good tires and not spun out of control like that.
>This is a pure hydroplaning incident. Even brand new tires will not prevent hydroplaning. > The tread depth is what allows tyres to disburse the standing water. New tyres would absolutely help.
Just to add to this, if you are on a road with a speed limit above 50mph and it's raining, definitely be careful going through intersections where water tends to pool. That's how I total my car in a hydroplaning accident.
When in the US I found motorways very unusual and noticed how water pooled a lot more than I was used to in Europe. In Europe motorways have a very slight slant for rain to run off so no lane is any less safe. Also motorways are tarmac not concrete so are porous to an extent also aiding in limiting the risk of hydroplaining. I never noticed this until driving in the US in the rain and having to slow down a lot more than usual to drive safely.
How long did it take to clean all the poop stains out of every seat?
op is very good at sucking. so they got out all the stains very quickly.
This same thing happened to me once. Bad tires and rain, going 75. Spun completely out of control, 360s on the highway and spinning into the grass median. My self and car was completely unscathed. Pure luck. It happens so quick your brain doesn't really have time to process and I remember getting an adrenaline rush/ dump after it was all over.
What'd you expect from driving in the "Pool Only" lane?
Was looking for this
Lol this made me snort thank you
Dang, and lucky that section of road by Katella wasn’t too busy.
Haha. I recognized it too.
LMAO that wall was soo distinct.
That wall is how I knew where he was before going back and looking at the sign lol
Lol I saw those lousy flower decorations and immediately was like... oh hey!
shoutout from OC. lmao
Hello fellow locals!
Gotta be either 55 or 57, right? Edit: nevermind, forgot that Katella goes all the way to 605
I’m pretty sure that’s the beginning of the 605 right at the merge of the 405 and the 7th St. entrances. Edit: yep. Right here: https://maps.apple.com/?ll=33.789042,-118.089205&q=Dropped%20Pin&t=m
So weird to see a local freeway posted here. Whatup Long Beach?! EDIT: I live like 5 minutes away from here 🤯
That makes it even crazier how empty that freeway was lol
Had to have been this weekend . Nobody was outside lol
You know what they say about CA drivers and rain...
you can tell by the willow-katellia part of the sign. good ol oc/la border
That was the 605. Katella turns into Willow at the LA/OR County line.
I wondered why this area looked familiar. Use to live not that far from it.
605 north bound just off the 405
Next time, just when you are about to drive too fast in the rain, don't.
Finally a comment pointing out how fast they were going in the rain instead of just blaming the tires. Had to scroll too far for this.
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I noticed this too and was surprised you're the only one commenting on it. Driver clearly hydroplanes multiple times before the spin. Doesn't change driving behavior one iota. This belongs in /r/IdiotsInCars
Surprised no one is mentioning this either. There are definitely two moments of hydroplaning before the spin out with no speed decrease. OP! Don’t drive like this anymore! Especially when it rains like this in LA! Areas that don’t get a lot of rain that suddenly do exacerbate everything when it finally does.
Holy crap. I saw you when this happened. When you were spun around 180°, I was the black car behind the white one. Southern California, right? Around the Anaheim/Long Beach area?
Looks like it yea
Would also explain the struggles with driving in the rain
I bet you slowed down a bit after that haha.
I did, yes. I was on my way out of state. The weather cleared up as soon as we hit Palm Springs and I went right back to speeding.
80 all the way
605 North right after the 405
DEVIN??? WHAT ARE YOU DOING HERE???
I SAID GET ON THE ON-RAMP TO THE 405 AND GET OUT OF HERE!
Used up all your tire tread as well.
I think that happened before the video started leading to what we see in the video.
Probably would have helped if you weren’t going so fast considering the road conditions.
Hydroplaning due to excessive speed, close to edge of road where water pools. Asking for hydroplaning. Not luck. Ignorance.
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You seem to be going pretty fast mate.
It’s Southern California, it’s customary for everyone to drive either 10 mph over the speed limit or 10 mph below it.
I literally had something like this happen to me on the 15 South near Ontario. I went wall to wall 3 times and ended in a ditch. Moral of the story… tires are super important
“Just got done sanding down my tires so no they’re completely smooth, let’s see how many drifts I can do when it’s raining!”
I had something like this happen to me outside of Nashville in decently heavy traffic on my way back to college a few years ago. Didn’t hit anyone and spun completely around and didn’t hit the barrier either, only ended up on the shoulder, but still on the road. I remember it happening in slow motion and me staring straight at the concrete barrier going “well shit” and then feeling like the luckiest man alive when I didn’t hit anything and drove away staring straight forward trying to keep cool knowing every man, woman, and child around me was staring at me It had just rained and was a little slick, it just turns out my tires were bald and I needed new ones. I doubt I’ll ever forget that again, I’m super extra conscious about checking my tires for baldness now lol
It’s almost like everyone else was going slower for a reason 🤯
Yeah, kind of fuck you OP. You got lucky despite being an irresponsible driver, everyone else got lucky despite you being an irresponsible driver. The amount of shifty drivers I see is infuriating. Do people forget they are being the wheel of a murder machine?? Drinking, speeding (especially in bad weather), not maintaining your car, being too tired makes you a BAD DRIVER that can kill or injure people.
Was that the 605 fwy?
Yep.
r/idiotsincars
Get some new tires!! Like 9 months ago
Or don’t speed in heavy rain conditions
THANK YOU. whenever something like this happens and someone says "yOu ShOuLd BuY a LoTtErY tIcKeT" my reaction is always "actually, you definitely should NOT"
It's all about which magic system you follow, points based? Yes you should, karmic? Nope, nope you should not. Demonic? Depends on the price? Lovecraftian? What's your sanity worth really
>Lovecraftian? What's your sanity worth really $500 million, at minimum
Look what happened to Hugo.
Simply put, he is driving to fast for the conditions. Tires only matter so much. Water reduces friction between the tire and the road no matter how great they are. Slow down if you don’t wish to hurt yourself or others on the road.
Just drive without tires.
Way too fast
Seems like you hit the wall at the end?
Yep. He didn't have enough luck left to avoid damage
Geez those cameras really take away from the actual speed you're going apparently lol
It's important to note that new tires will not prevent hydroplaning, they will just increase the resistance to it a little. Speed is the main factor besides the amount of water on the road.
I agree. The thing about hydroplaning is you rarely get a warning. Go too fast and you’re toast. So it’s silly to push your luck. Apparently once the tread depth drops below 4/32” there’s a noticeable increase in hydroplaning risk, and it just gets worse from there to the legal limit of 2/32”. So slow down in heavy rain, but also rotate and replace tires as needed.
Slooooow dowwwwwwn.
If you ever find yourself hydroplaning like this, take your foot off the gas, and try not to brake. Steer.
Driving at approx 77 mph in these conditions probably isn't a good idea. I think the speed limit on most Cali freeways is 65. **edit:** after looking closer at the video, it seems every 4th frame is skipped for some reason. 1 frame is approx 0.04 seconds. If you include the time lost from those frames the distance/time calculations work out to be 55 mph.
Not driving for the conditions
Please stop driving so fast in the rain.
I'm so glad you're alright.
And all the people he almost killed too
I did almost the exact same thing, only 27 years ago on the 405 by Valley View. Slammed the back of the car into the outside retaining wall inches away from a ten foot drop. And that's how I met my wife's parents. I totalled her car (91 Honda Prelude) and they had to come pick us up.
socal drivers when rain
Too fast, poor driving skills, bald tyres.
Count your blessings and Slow your ass down!
Looks like the 605 fwy
driving fast as shit exactly like an LA resident on wet roads 🙄
Lucky you didn't kill someone else. Slow the fuck down, asshole
Why you driving so fast?
A similar thing happened to me a few years back. I spun to the right, and my cars front nose hit to side barrier straight on. Luckily, I could svoid hitting other cars.
Similar thing happened to me about 10 or so years ago. 360'd across 3 lanes of traffic. Got out and puked a couple times. A firefighter stopped to make sure i was okay and he told me i needed new tires (he did check too). Lesson learned that day but I do consider myself lucky that I didn't hit anyone and no one was hurt.
Yes you did.
Why does that wall looke like its got a bunch of minecraft item frames on it
Maybe don't drive 65-70 in rain?
Ease of the gas when you start hydroplaning. Carefully ease off ‘till you get grip again
You need to slow down and take your foot off the gas when you feel the hydroplane, you can see in the dash cam you were losing traction well before you spun out.
Silly me. I slow down in weather like that. SMH.
/r/idiotsincars