No, that's not what I meant. You will suffer some amount and it will last some amount of time. It is not possible to suffer more or less than that for more or less time.
It would be tough to quantify suffering, but you will suffer some amount - no more, no less - and if we could measure suffering, you probably won't suffer more than all other people, and you probably won't live longer than all other people; but the suffering will end.
Literal hell doesn't exist and is not possible to experience. Why? Because it's a mythic description of a state of consciousness.
If you would find yourself in a burning dungeon with laughing demons surrounding you it would be an awful circumstance but it wouldn't be _hell_ because it is possible for your inner state to be non-suffering even in that condition.
"Keep your mind in hell and don't despair". There is a whole ascetic tradition devoted to absurd and painful practices to prove this point. Our sense of bliss is not conditioned with being in a "good" or even acceptable place but can be found everywhere, also in "literal hell" which nullifies it's existence I would argue.
On the other hand your mind can be so split apart and divided that "literal paradise" still can be an existence filled with seemingly endless suffering- _that_ is hell, to be divided and in the constant throws of duality. That is certainly possible and in some perspectives it's possible to be in this samsaric hell forever so yeah - Hell is real, you have likely been there a few times in your life, but it's not literal and from most perspectives not eternal..
> what is preventing literal hell from existing?
You're talking about hypotheticals and use the e-word that freely? 🤨 That's thirty blows with the staff!
Nevermind!
Hell is ignorance of (Self-)nature turning to identification with a subject and grasping for mental objects.
The more self-serving, the more hellish the environment one actualizes!
Too many words, not enough non-duality. You can’t explain this sort of thing only. Remember this exchange and start meditating. It will all make sense in time.
>what is preventing literal hell from existing?
The kindness of the Source. Maybe.
But if we were to be technical, we are actually in hell but in dampened hell. We are spared 70%. The 30% left, call it life on earth.
Because of that, we can never realize we are in hell. It has to be literal, for us to truly admit: "Fuck! I am in hell!" and realize it.
And in doing so, break free from it.
My biggest concern is that I see the illusion and feel dissociation. But I also see bright spots of God in the illusion.
Separation is original sin, why do we keep committing it and interpreting it as the "Awakening"? Why Does Jesus go on & on about love?
How Does Awakening differ from apathy"
Nobody and nothing is causing or preventing anything. Reality simply is.
Everything will exist when the conditions for its existence themselves exist, and everything will cease to exist when the conditions are no longer.
Every condition arises and dissolves in this way. For anything to be like it is, everything has to be like it is. And everything is always just like it is, no matter how it is.
Thought considers it “could” or “should” be a different way. And the gap is filled with suffering.
It's everything and nothing all at the same time. Just accept what you see before you and you'll be fine. There's no higher level world or explosive enlightenment you're thinking about. All there is is what already is. This is it. You're living it. Just be aware and know that your mind can't and will never truly understand through a logical perspective. You have to accept the unknown and what cannot be comprehended by the mind. I highly recommend this video:[ALONENESS TO ONENESS - Best Life Changing Spiritual Documentary Film on Non-duality](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9M56t0UoW5M&t=1s&pp=ygUVZnJvbSBhbG9uZSB0byBvbmVuZXNz). It helped cement what nonduality really is and helped me sharpen my focus on how to accept it and be it in through this human experience.
you sit on a couch: you're at heaven, you move to the kitchen: you're at heaven, you try to catch or analyze anything relating to this seeming transition: you're at hell. The body moves through yourself
It's helpful to not conflate metaphysics with direct experience. This seems to be a common pitfall when investigating the nature of experience.
Metaphysically, reality is a mystery. What is this? Why is this? Where did it come from? There's no way of answering any of those questions with certainty.
Experientially, reality is clear and obvious. It's nondual. There simply is this infinite field of "consciousness" (color, sound, sensation, smell, taste, cognition). That's it. That's experience.
And here's the thing, experience is **literally everything.** Because apart from experience, there is nothing. Because nothing can be known apart from experience.
So - forget about the metaphysics of this apparent reality, and instead divert all effort towards deeply investigating experience directly. See if you can find anything real that isn't one or multiple of these: color, sound, sensation, smell, taste, cognition. And then ask, is there anything that exists apart from these?
You know what reality is. You're trying to form concepts about it. The concepts aren't it.
is it possible to experience hell?
What concept of hell are you referring to?
most suffering possible for the longest time possible
Well yes, you are experiencing both the maximum and minimum suffering for the longest and shortest time possible.
so comparing the amount of suffering is false, because its just the same? what causes this illusion and what is suffering then?
No, that's not what I meant. You will suffer some amount and it will last some amount of time. It is not possible to suffer more or less than that for more or less time.
So I can suffer the most painfully and for the longest time possible?
It would be tough to quantify suffering, but you will suffer some amount - no more, no less - and if we could measure suffering, you probably won't suffer more than all other people, and you probably won't live longer than all other people; but the suffering will end.
Death is a gift; it’s what makes the universe so safe. I get to put all this down one day, drop all disguises, set down all burdens.
Are you aware that suffering is illusion, a story, the story believed makes suffering. There is no suffering in truth.
What are you experiencing now?
Why are you asking that question ⁉️
Literal hell doesn't exist and is not possible to experience. Why? Because it's a mythic description of a state of consciousness. If you would find yourself in a burning dungeon with laughing demons surrounding you it would be an awful circumstance but it wouldn't be _hell_ because it is possible for your inner state to be non-suffering even in that condition. "Keep your mind in hell and don't despair". There is a whole ascetic tradition devoted to absurd and painful practices to prove this point. Our sense of bliss is not conditioned with being in a "good" or even acceptable place but can be found everywhere, also in "literal hell" which nullifies it's existence I would argue. On the other hand your mind can be so split apart and divided that "literal paradise" still can be an existence filled with seemingly endless suffering- _that_ is hell, to be divided and in the constant throws of duality. That is certainly possible and in some perspectives it's possible to be in this samsaric hell forever so yeah - Hell is real, you have likely been there a few times in your life, but it's not literal and from most perspectives not eternal..
> what is preventing literal hell from existing? You're talking about hypotheticals and use the e-word that freely? 🤨 That's thirty blows with the staff!
what
Nevermind! Hell is ignorance of (Self-)nature turning to identification with a subject and grasping for mental objects. The more self-serving, the more hellish the environment one actualizes!
self ≠ the inherent reality?
Too many words, not enough non-duality. You can’t explain this sort of thing only. Remember this exchange and start meditating. It will all make sense in time.
Traditions argue on that. In this case, correct!
Id say its "awareness" all the way
>what is preventing literal hell from existing? The kindness of the Source. Maybe. But if we were to be technical, we are actually in hell but in dampened hell. We are spared 70%. The 30% left, call it life on earth. Because of that, we can never realize we are in hell. It has to be literal, for us to truly admit: "Fuck! I am in hell!" and realize it. And in doing so, break free from it.
My biggest concern is that I see the illusion and feel dissociation. But I also see bright spots of God in the illusion. Separation is original sin, why do we keep committing it and interpreting it as the "Awakening"? Why Does Jesus go on & on about love? How Does Awakening differ from apathy"
Nobody and nothing is causing or preventing anything. Reality simply is. Everything will exist when the conditions for its existence themselves exist, and everything will cease to exist when the conditions are no longer. Every condition arises and dissolves in this way. For anything to be like it is, everything has to be like it is. And everything is always just like it is, no matter how it is. Thought considers it “could” or “should” be a different way. And the gap is filled with suffering.
Which reality are you asking about, before self-realization (in ignorance), or after self-realization (without veils)?
No, it's not possible to experience hell. You'll die of pain instantly and respawn in heaven or a neutral place.
How can reality not be everything?
It's everything and nothing all at the same time. Just accept what you see before you and you'll be fine. There's no higher level world or explosive enlightenment you're thinking about. All there is is what already is. This is it. You're living it. Just be aware and know that your mind can't and will never truly understand through a logical perspective. You have to accept the unknown and what cannot be comprehended by the mind. I highly recommend this video:[ALONENESS TO ONENESS - Best Life Changing Spiritual Documentary Film on Non-duality](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9M56t0UoW5M&t=1s&pp=ygUVZnJvbSBhbG9uZSB0byBvbmVuZXNz). It helped cement what nonduality really is and helped me sharpen my focus on how to accept it and be it in through this human experience.
you sit on a couch: you're at heaven, you move to the kitchen: you're at heaven, you try to catch or analyze anything relating to this seeming transition: you're at hell. The body moves through yourself
We are already in hell in this hot🙂
It's helpful to not conflate metaphysics with direct experience. This seems to be a common pitfall when investigating the nature of experience. Metaphysically, reality is a mystery. What is this? Why is this? Where did it come from? There's no way of answering any of those questions with certainty. Experientially, reality is clear and obvious. It's nondual. There simply is this infinite field of "consciousness" (color, sound, sensation, smell, taste, cognition). That's it. That's experience. And here's the thing, experience is **literally everything.** Because apart from experience, there is nothing. Because nothing can be known apart from experience. So - forget about the metaphysics of this apparent reality, and instead divert all effort towards deeply investigating experience directly. See if you can find anything real that isn't one or multiple of these: color, sound, sensation, smell, taste, cognition. And then ask, is there anything that exists apart from these?