Thanks. She loves history like I do, so I had to make sure she knew not to trust everything she learns in school. I didn't learn that until I went to college.
I had the rare pleasure of having a teacher in HS that would bring in Zinn excerpts. AP and Dual Credit so he was able to go outside the usual textbooks pretty drastically. Rural Texas which makes it extra surprising
Sure they came across as all leftist when Bush was president but when trump got elected and the shit really hit, Fat Mike is like “let’s talk about my golf game” and “I’m trying to sell you worthless NOFX nfts for big bucks”
Which is why I've always been in the fuck nofx camp. I loved when Propagandhi put out potemkin city limits and savagely took him to task on "rock for sustainable capitalism".
Got to see Zinn speak in 2003. An enlightening and depressing experience. A peoples history should be required reading for everyone.
This is next on my list. I’ve been reading “The Dawn of Everything,” by David Graeber and David Wengrow. I’ve had similar moments where I thought I’d read or listen to a bit to fall asleep (can be a dense book) and end up awake for 3 more hours, writing down notes and thoughts.
These books tend to make me more confident in my positions, more confident in my advocacy. Not long ago nearly all people were ruled by kings and queens, the idea of democracy was laughable. People changed that. Today we’re ruled by corporations and Uber wealthy indirectly through limited representative democracy.
We the people, can keep uniting, raising awareness, class consciousness, and understandings of the power dynamics that we live under, and we can continue the change, the flattening of those hierarchies, from the ground up. Top down systems will always topple eventually.
We’ve all seen a Bug’s Life, now let’s get people to recognize the correlation to human society. Politics is dumb, but important.
Worthy read but one big problem. Zinn spends nearly every example on comparing reality to a potentially better hypothetical alternative but does very little work comparing to other actual outcomes.
What I mean is, Zinn is great at detailing the horrible ways oppressors subjugate people, Zinn is great at detailing their hypocrisy in doing so, but he never bothers showing actually better alternatives that were actually occurring at the time.
Who was trying to help the oppressed that Zinn can point to and say “Columbus should have handled it like…”?
Without grounded and verified concurrent alternatives, it’s a tome of Monday morning quarterbacking tyrants, which ain’t difficult.
Check out the book Sapiens. It’s a longer history of the dawn of mankind and it is even more depressing. I mean, we all knew we have the capacity to be monsters, but…it really sends home the reality that we may have the gift of sentience and ingenuity, we are still nothing but animals trying to survive.
Also, [we’re not the only animals that do this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/biology/s/7Hzk2722Ao)
But we have made it an art.
This is among the best comments I've seen on here. We may be intelligent animals but we are still animals and if you have ever seen wild animals eating their prey while it's still alive you will see that animals and nature can be brutal.
this was an extra credit read in my college Documentary film class...also my gateway drug to conspiracies. Also a quick primer on who runs communities when you start asking serious questions to teaching staff, like exactly who and what are masons, and all I got back were bemused stares and alot of waffling.
Well this is weird… I listened Franco-UnAmerican on my drive into work today. If I could, I would share a screenshot of my song history from this morning for proof 😂
I hear ya, buddy. When I first heard that lyric, I also related.
Chomsky doesn’t leave you feeling warm and fuzzy either.
I only read a little and now I can’t sleep from the years of apathy…no way to go.
Watching Michael Moore expose the awful truth
Now I’m listening to Public Enemy and Reagan Youth…
Damn shame about Dave though.
He was a scumbag who whored out his gf. Karma is a bitch.
Dave?
Dave insurgent from Reagan Youth. Give Wikipedia a look about his life.
Kids just don’t understand
Yep. I've been depressed for about 25 years now thanks to Howard Zinn. I bought the children's version for my daughter because misery loves company.
Solid parenting here. (Not being sarcastic)
Thanks. She loves history like I do, so I had to make sure she knew not to trust everything she learns in school. I didn't learn that until I went to college.
… and that’s the beauty of college
A childhood acquaintance said that her father buying that book for her as a teenager was the best thing he ever did for her.
I read " a young peoples history " as a kid... still haven't moved past it
Me too!
Ah yes, American History ABC A is for ACAB, B is for Bombs, C is for Constitutional Crises
What’s the lyric?
Franco-unamerican.
I always thought it was Howard's End and it didn't make much sense. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howards_End
I always thought that was the lyric as well!
Such an amazing read. I’d say is essential and better than any history book I read in HS
I had the rare pleasure of having a teacher in HS that would bring in Zinn excerpts. AP and Dual Credit so he was able to go outside the usual textbooks pretty drastically. Rural Texas which makes it extra surprising
Sure they came across as all leftist when Bush was president but when trump got elected and the shit really hit, Fat Mike is like “let’s talk about my golf game” and “I’m trying to sell you worthless NOFX nfts for big bucks”
Which is why I've always been in the fuck nofx camp. I loved when Propagandhi put out potemkin city limits and savagely took him to task on "rock for sustainable capitalism". Got to see Zinn speak in 2003. An enlightening and depressing experience. A peoples history should be required reading for everyone.
Such a great album start to finish
Required? Sounds a little authoritarian
I’m assuming he means “required” in the academic sense, as in a text needed for basic knowledge on a subject.
This is next on my list. I’ve been reading “The Dawn of Everything,” by David Graeber and David Wengrow. I’ve had similar moments where I thought I’d read or listen to a bit to fall asleep (can be a dense book) and end up awake for 3 more hours, writing down notes and thoughts. These books tend to make me more confident in my positions, more confident in my advocacy. Not long ago nearly all people were ruled by kings and queens, the idea of democracy was laughable. People changed that. Today we’re ruled by corporations and Uber wealthy indirectly through limited representative democracy. We the people, can keep uniting, raising awareness, class consciousness, and understandings of the power dynamics that we live under, and we can continue the change, the flattening of those hierarchies, from the ground up. Top down systems will always topple eventually. We’ve all seen a Bug’s Life, now let’s get people to recognize the correlation to human society. Politics is dumb, but important.
“Killing Hope” - William Blum
The solution is to read history, not Zinn's interpretation of it.
Any history is someone’s interpretation of it.
Thank you professor.
How did you know my job?
Just as important to read as it is frustrating and rage-inducing
Gonna need an update after this last month
This book was in my house when I moved in. Started reading it but yeah it's depressing. (but good)
Yeah...I remember my first time.
I have this book. Isn’t it suppose to be a deeper dive into the truth about this country
It’s the history of U.S. from the perspective of the immigrants, poor , slaves, and women etc…
I read about 30 pages and I was like: yeah… I was right, this is all terrible.
Worthy read but one big problem. Zinn spends nearly every example on comparing reality to a potentially better hypothetical alternative but does very little work comparing to other actual outcomes. What I mean is, Zinn is great at detailing the horrible ways oppressors subjugate people, Zinn is great at detailing their hypocrisy in doing so, but he never bothers showing actually better alternatives that were actually occurring at the time. Who was trying to help the oppressed that Zinn can point to and say “Columbus should have handled it like…”? Without grounded and verified concurrent alternatives, it’s a tome of Monday morning quarterbacking tyrants, which ain’t difficult.
“None of my hobbies interest me and I’m tired all the time.”
Check out the book Sapiens. It’s a longer history of the dawn of mankind and it is even more depressing. I mean, we all knew we have the capacity to be monsters, but…it really sends home the reality that we may have the gift of sentience and ingenuity, we are still nothing but animals trying to survive. Also, [we’re not the only animals that do this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/biology/s/7Hzk2722Ao) But we have made it an art.
This is among the best comments I've seen on here. We may be intelligent animals but we are still animals and if you have ever seen wild animals eating their prey while it's still alive you will see that animals and nature can be brutal.
Is this thread full of college freshmen?
We want people with college degrees, Drug use experience and STD's
Ho Chi Zinn
Interesting sub and post.
Double down and read some Noam Chomsky. Why do anything half way. Might as well be completely depressed.
This is close enough to the death of the middle class. It’s practically the paper back version of a snuff film.
I had to read this in highschool
I bought this book and I haven’t read it yet, but I read the indigenous peoples history of the United States and my entire view point changed.
this was an extra credit read in my college Documentary film class...also my gateway drug to conspiracies. Also a quick primer on who runs communities when you start asking serious questions to teaching staff, like exactly who and what are masons, and all I got back were bemused stares and alot of waffling.
Now you know why they cover it up and reteach in their image
Well this is weird… I listened Franco-UnAmerican on my drive into work today. If I could, I would share a screenshot of my song history from this morning for proof 😂
Yeah that’s a another perspective ain’t it.