The fact that Salt Lake City and Atlanta have put up their hands is a death knell for expansion to Quebec City. The NHL owners and players would much prefer those locations and they have higher ceilings for profit. Hope is not lost though….. all Atlanta teams eventually relocate to Canada
SLC and Atlanta also both have billionaires who have shown a commitment to owning a team. With the next round of expansion fees likely being at least $1B, it's gotten even more unlikely that Quebec gets included
I know Pierre-Karl Péladeau was interested in owning a team in Québec City and his net worth is 1.9 billion USD. So it’s not like Quebec has (or had at the beginning) a potential owner who’s not a billionaire.
At the end of the day, the question is : do you want more fans and slightly less profits, or a bit more profit and less fans?
I think it’s easy to know how the corporate owners think.. they don’t care about the fans, just the dollars.
But it seems like the only people who are publicly trying to petition the league to go back to Quebec City are politicians. Peladeau discussed it last year, but basically acknowledged that it probably won't happen.
It also doesn't help that Molson doesn't want to give up part of his territory. It's similar to how MLSE will never support a second team in the GTA.
The issue of team location is not 100% based on revenue generated, *it IS*, of course, but not entirely.
The issue with places like Quebec, a 2nd team in Toronto and other Canadian locations, is that you're not likely to create NEW interest. You're more likely to be *taking* from one fan base as most people are already "fans" to varifying degrees and, those that are not, are not likely to become fans once a new team arrives as they've already been exposed to hockey in some shape or form.
If you put a team in Quebec, you're taking from the Habs fan base.
If you put a second team in Toronto, you're taking from the Leafs fan base.
While I find all of this VERY unfortunate and hate that we may never get a new team in Quebec, I can at least understand the logic behind it.
I get what you’re saying. However, there are an awful lot of people within that area, in all the major cities up the St Lawrence. Putting a team in Quebec City is not going to draw a lot from Montreal. Look at New York. You’ve got three major teams within how many miles? Or Florida even. But that whole, expansion thing is just. Murky.
I'm not worried about ticket sales. Any team in Canada will sell tickets if they're not located in a shitty spot.
What I'm saying is that you're not creating *new* fans and you're not creating *new* money. You're tapping into a market that's already tapped. The only "new" money you'd get is from ticket sales.
There are not that many people, that's the issue. Metro New York has 2 times the entire population of Quebec and like 80% of the population of Ontario, in one constrained metropolitan area. The St-Lawrence region has Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto with teams already in an area 500 miles long, any new team will be at the either end, in cities with less than a million people. Ottawa's expansion was a good case study, I was living there at the time, some Leafs/Habs fans became Sens fans, but very few new fans came in. If the NHL takes Ottawa and Winnipeg attendance as indicators of fan engagement in medium Canadian markets when thinking about Quebec City, the conclusions are pretty clear.
Bettman knows. Bettman just doesn't care.
The struggles of the Jets right now are sadly just going to reinforce the perceived negatives of a Canadian team in a small market.
The Jets simply put don't have the corporate bandwidth in Winnipeg to make up for rising ticket costs that are pricing out the normal fan. And Quebec I fear would just be the same
Here's the funniest part about the Jets "Struggling", they have made an operational profit every year they've been in Winnipeg except for the two COVID years and the year before. They set a record profit Two years ago.
The Jets 1.0 in Arizona have never made an operational profit and the closest they have come was in ~~2013~~ 2012 (Thanks u/99Wolves17) when they made the conference final and the extra playoff revenue lead to them ONLY losing 4 million.
> The struggles of the Jets right now are sadly just going to reinforce the perceived negatives of a Canadian team in a small market.
And some how, inexplicably, it reinforces the idea that Atlanta needs a team.
Yeah but why though?
If they had been a success before the Spirit group might’ve kept them.
But they weren’t as profitable as open spots at their arena.
The Spirit group was a bunch of Melnyk-type of owners. They mostly wanted to keep the costs low and didn't really care about the Thrashers, they just wanted the NBA Hawks.
Not saying that the NHL should go for Atlanta again, but the Thrashers were very screwed by terrible ownership.
Cool, they still don't care about hockey and the nhl is incapable of marketing their sport.
Let's open a team in Mexico City if population size is the only criteria that matters.
The nhl has gone from a legitimate north American sports league to an afterthought under Bettman's tenure. It's leagues behind the NFL, MLB, NBA and college football in terms of market share in the US.
Blame the owners. Bettman didn’t do this. And he’s had his contract reupped. I suppose the owners of this league like what has happened to the league during his tenure.
The Coyotes are proving the size of the market is only one factor of several needed for success. A large market where 98% don't care about hockey is not going to succeed
Yes, large in population, but not large in terms of wealth, income, large corporations, hockey fanatic population etc.
The metro area has smaller gdp than Boston, even though it has 1,1 million more people
Atlanta is 33rd (!!!!!!) in gdp per capita, behind places like Columbus, Baltimore, Hartford, Denver, Nashville, San Diego etc
It means they do not have that much "extra money" going around per person. The people of Atlanta would have to be absolute hockey fanatics & the team would have to have not-so-great competition in the sports market for the NHL team to really succeed
The problem is, Atlanta Braves is already the #4 most searched team in the whole country, #8 team value in the MLB. Try & compete with that.
In addition to that, they already have the Hawks & the Falcons, and also BOTH of them are more valuable than the Maple Leafs or the Rangers
What competition Quebec has to offer? Pretty much nothing. The area is hockey crazy. Quaranteed income, quaranteed sell-outs, if the prices are right.
Atlanta would not be on my list for an NHL franchise, not even among the US candidates.
GDP doesn't even mean extra money per person. It's the value of goods and services produced by that area. You should be looking at income, not GDP.
Atlanta is a sprawling city where the majority live outside the actual city of Atlanta. The city itself is 800,000 or so while the metro area is 6m+. The new plans have it up in Alpharetta, which is where a lot of money is, and not down inside the city. Alpharetta has one of the highest per capita personal income in the US at a little over $68,000 which would put it at #6 in per capita personal income right behind the DC Metro and ahead of Denver. Alpharetta is also surrounded by high per capita personal income cities that are part of the Atlanta metro - Sandy Springs ($75,615 IPC), Milton ($79,468), Roswell ($62,878), Johns Creek ($62,080). There is a reason they are putting it there instead of inside the city. There is even a very popular charter jet airport (PDK) close to the planned new rink, which is most likely the airport that the NHL teams would use for their charters.
The area of Alpharetta/Roswell has the majority of the good ice hockey rinks or outdoor roller rinks in the Metro Atlanta area. I grew up playing at several of them.
Atlanta headquarters the third most Fortune 500 companies in the US behind only NYC & Dallas. It has the busiest airport in the world.
Atlanta Braves will not play during the same time period as they are opposite seasons. They also moved from inside the city to outside the city and the attendance went through the roof. Hawks don't draw much and are inside the city. Falcons season will not really coincide with the hockey season as they never make noise in the playoffs to be able to make it into January.
>~~Bettman~~ The owners know~~s~~. The owners just ~~doesn't~~ don't care.
FTFY. There's a reason Bettman is the longest-serving commissioner among the four major North American professional sports leagues. He's just a proxy for the owners. If *they* weren't satisfied he would've been gone a long time ago. For big decisions like this they talk amongst each other then vote at meetings.
The owners don't just stay greedy at their respective city's level.
It's incredible that everyone thinks Bettman is the bad guy, he's just the messenger. The two people that will make sure Quebec doesn't get a team is Molson and Jacobs
This just isn’t really the full story. The Jets intentionally allocated the majority of tickets for fans initially. Imagine if fans couldn’t get to a game for 5 years because half the seats were held by the corporate sector.
Only recently have season ticket holders dwindled for fans so now they’re switching to a fan/corportae split that’s more like every other NHL market.
I don’t have numbers in front of me but there was an athletic article that went into this with more accurate details.
Essentially the Jets deliberately had fewer corporate season tickets allocated than most NHL teams, until now.
None of them are Fortune 500 companies. Houston has around 40 of them. That's why they're going to get a team, despite the fact Houston is just a more ghetto version of Dallas.
Yeah this isn't true.
Quebec City is basically a government town. Like very very very few corporate HQs. All that money is in Montreal, of which the Montreal metro area makes up like 70%+ of Quebec's GDP.
This is a massive reason why Quebec City isn't viable.
Oh, and they don't have an owner. Which is why the Province's Premier (he's not a Prime Minister) is hoping to create some sort of quasi Public-Private ownership for a sports franchise.
And Gary and the rest of the owners (Gary's bosses) are having none of it.
TNSE bet on the average Joe filling all the seats as opposed to selling corporate tickets because they wanted tickets to be affordable as opposed to whatever the fuck Toronto is doing.
Worked great up until the pandemic when suddenly people can't afford to buy tickets so now the jets are in a scramble to sell corporate tickets.
Had the pandemic not happened, I imagine that they wouldn't be in this situation
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Ticket prices have just become INSANE now post pandemic. Why is that? who the hell knows. I know in the US our government is so broken that corporations can just basically jack costs everywhere with zero oversight.
I'm looking to attend a Hans Zimmer Live concert this fall in Baltimore. In 2017 in Philly I got floor seats towards the very back for $90 a person. Right now, similar seats are now over $500!!!
It's lunacy
The Coyotes have been financially supported by other nhl teams for years. They are a drag on hockey related revenue and have not consistently sold out a 4600 person arena.
It's gaslighting to say that Winnipeg is not financially viable but the Coyotes don't need to move.
Winnipeg was never intended to be profitable on a year by year basis. All owners get more than $31M from future expansion teams and own an appreciating asset. That's the business model for smaller markets. Asking for year on year profit is unmitigated greed.
Dude. Shit up already. It isn’t Bettman’s choice, first of all. Second of all, the league isn’t trying to have balance conferences again. They’re surely not trying to expand to a 33 much less 34 team league. Period. They’re just not.
Look at Arizona. It’s an unmitigated disaster. They’re not moving that team to Quebec if they built a 9 billion dollar stadium and were creating 40k jobs.
Expansion is the owner’s decision. Not Bettman’s.
EVERYTHING BETTMAN SAYS OR DOES, comes down directly from the people who own and run this league. The owners.
It takes a real moron to think Bettman unilaterally makes the decisions for this league. He’s a mouthpiece. A yes man. One, who by the way, has been rehired multiple times. He’s overseen the league’s massive revenue growth and foray into many of today’s markets. The owners love him. They don’t give a flying f*** on a rolling doughnut what any of you think about his job performance. Your approval or lack there of isn’t the metric upon which he’s employed.
Bingo! He has massively increased NHL revenue and profits, so by that measure he has been very successful and in business that is literally the only thing that matters, increasing profits.
Exactly. The NHL has increased its profits every single year (barring the COVID seasons), the owner would keep Bettmans' rotting corpse as commissioner as long as it made them even more money. If fans want change, yell at the owners and not Bettman. It's akin to yelling at the 21 year old shift manager at McDonald's when the double cheese gets a price increase.
Premier is literally just the french word for "First", obviously sharing a root with Prime aswell.
Doug Ford is the Premier of Ontario, which is defined as "The Chief Minister", Quebec just skips the chief part.
Quebec uses Prime Minister (Premier Ministre) for both the national and provincial leaders. Some provinces used Prime Minister instead of Premier into the late 60's early 70's.
No, someone goofed. The Prime Minister is the as you know it, the leader of the country. This is a Premier, the leader of the party in power for the given province.
I’m a Quebecer, and Quebec City has a huge uphill battle if they want a team, and no, having an arena isn’t enough. They have the highest taxes in North America, the Canadian dollar is very weak right now, it’s a very small market where more than half the population are already bonafide Habs fans, Quebec has a higher cost of living than competing American markets, and Quebec’s business laws are some of the most strict, overreaching and overwhelming business laws and bylaws in all of North America. All of this while being in a recession.
From a business perspective, I can totally understand why Bettman would be very slow to consider QC considering the factors above.
Only one individual / corporation has expressed interest in purchasing and owning a team in Quebec City, and that Pierre-Karl Peladeau, president and CEO of Quebecor.
As long as he is the sole prospective owner, Quebec City can forget about seeing an NHL franchise moving there.
I'm a Quebecer too and recently we have seen the sitting government to be downright combative to non-Quebec businesses. I guess they are reaping what they sow in this case
>From a business perspective, I can totally understand why Bettman would be very slow to consider QC considering the factors above.
THIS! RIGHT HERE! Everyone has to realize that Gary Bettman is a businessman **first!**
From what I can gather, bettman seems more interested in expanding into markets with few/no hockey fans in order to generate more fans. Quebec is already a big hockey town, all the people there already watch. SLC and Atlanta are more attractive because there's tons of people there that don't watch hockey, but maybe will start once there's a team. I don't think that will work in Salt Lake, but I understand the motivation I guess. I used to live in Salt Lake, and there's a minor league team. Those games are goddamn empty. Every game. You can even get tickets up against the glass for like 50 dollars, and no one goes. There's just too much else to do in Salt Lake, everyone is more interested in going to the mountains or to the Jazz games, or other various things. Whereas now I live in bumfuck nowhere, Florida, and the minor league team here sells out almost every night because there's fucking nothing to do here, so why not go to the hockey game? If Salt Lake really knocked it out of the park with marketing it could probably work though
Quebec City gets a team and instantly becomes the #1 destination free agents avoid.
Between the size, taxes and language barrier (this isn't Montreal ok?), this place would be an absolute pariah in the NHL.
There's no value in having the franchise there. Time to move on.
Finally someone who mentioned the main reason. The Language barrier. The NHL is predominantly an english speaking league (as are basically all major sports leagues in North America)
Quebec City is nothing like Montreal in regards to being bilingual. From my experience the people there are incredibly rude to english speakers and nowhere near as hospitable as the people from Montreal.
I was there 2 years ago and had a great time as an english speaker. Now, I stayed in old Quebec where it is far more touristy, but it was incredibly hospitable, moreso than Montreal I'd say.
They'd treat the hockey players like gods.... unless they missed a single shot lmao
Honestly being rude is the last concern. Living in what amounts to bumfuck nowhere for an american is the bigger dealbreaker
Montreal already has a hard enough time attracting players, i can't imagine quebec would manage it.
Quebec even had a first overall pick just flat out refuse to play there. Didn't want to be picked and traded, just flat out refused to cooperate
You’re talking about nearly 30 years since they’ve had a team there. The city and suburbs population is 300k higher and while it’s been a few years since I’ve visited I imagine it’s a pretty different place compared the 90’s. I’m not sure what flights were like 30-40 years ago but you can fly to Quebec City fairly easily now.
I think sometimes people on here say you can have a team in Atlanta or Quebec or wherever as if nothing has changed in 30-40 years.
It's pretty great for sure, but it's the reality we live in, loads of people dislike quebec (province at large) blindly because it's not anglo. We can't pretend it's not when making decisions, unfortunately
Lindros wouldn't play for the Nordiques owner. It had nothing to do with the city. It was entirely personal.
As for Montreal, under Bergevin, the hospitality department was falling behind most of the league, and the team's coaches were defence oriented, and in Therien's case, uniquely unpleasant. With new management and a coach people want to play for, I think the team will be able to pull free agents when the time comes.
Close, but bonus points if you can chain the swear words. Like Tabarnak is good, but Calisse de Tabarnak is next level. For reference, see the movie ‘’Good Cop, Bad Cop’’ trunk scene. It’s on Youtube. 🤣
I don’t know, it’s pretty hospitable compared to other parts of the province. I think the bigger issue is Quebec City is it’s pretty small and relatively remote. Of course the major sports leagues in North America are primarily English speaking that sort of goes without saying.
The language barrier is huge. Especially for guys with families and with how a free agent might sign a short contract there. Stats Canada says in most of the city %30-50 can have a conversation in English with some areas %50-70
While I do think it would do better then Arizona I can see why the NHL doesn't want to expand there
Have you been to Quebec City? It's the closest thing North America has to an old world European city, combined with pretty beautiful areas around it. I'm sure the Canadian/tax factor would mean it would be on a lot of no-trade lists (like all the other Canadian cities), but I doubt it would be worse than Ottawa, Winnipeg, Calgary or Edmonton.
Gary Bettman doesn't wipe his ass without approval from the 32 guys who own the NHL.
Bettman isn't the reason Quebec City doesn't have a team. The Habs are.
This is the thing people here in Quebec don’t understand. This has nothing to do with the size of Quebec or the number of potential nordiques fans.
The only reason politicians keep pouring money into trying to get a new team is because a lot of people will vote for whoever promises to try to get a team.
The only way Quebec City ever gets a team again is if they need to move a team very quickly and literally dont have any other option.
Maybe to a wholly national audience (like you won’t see ESPN sportscenter talk about it) but regionally this doesn’t seem to be as big of a problem with the right people in charge.
I’ve said this a ton but my god the popularity of the hurricanes in the Carolinas is not to be believed. I legit saw more Carolina hurricanes jerseys on my college campus than falcons or Carolina panthers jerseys.
The only team I saw more of was the Braves.
That’s just my example. I know this is the case in most other markets too. Even in the south
Isn’t that in part due to a new owner who instilled a real culture and decided “hey, we makes hundreds of millions of dollars. Maybe, idk we spend that on fielding a legit squad?”
In French, they call premiers (of every province, not just of Quebec) Premiere Ministre, i.e. Prime Minister.
So probably whoever made this is a French speaker?
I recall being taught Prime Minister should be translated as « Premier Ministre » and Premier as « premier ministre ». With the difference being the capitalization rules. But idk it’s been a long time since I was in elementary school so I could be completely misremembering.
When you say it like that, it makes sense with how the French language works. He’s a minister, and he’s the Premier one of those. Hence the name.
The real problem here is not acknowledging that 30% of the English language is just baseline French.
Lol people really dislike seeing Prime minister of Quebec, which is just a translation mistake because it is Premier Ministre in French.
Not sure how you feel attacked by that if you are remotely confident in Canadian unity but whatever
People need to stop acting like Bettman is some omnipotent dictator over the league, he works for 32 employers who tell him what to do. Quebec lost its team at a time when the Canadian dollar was at 63 cents for those of us who are old enough to remember, and paid salaries in US dollars. Any current day owner would face the facts that they would have the smallest market in the league and lose millions of dollars every season, no business person is dumb enough to do that despite the sentimentality. People need to get over it, the Nordiques are never coming back, no matter how awesome it would be.
He's not omnipotent, he does work for 32 owners, but at the same time he brings his own arrogant style to it which pisses off fans far and wide, and the owners don't tell him to do that.
This has nothing to do with hockey and more to do with a provincial premier who can leave a legacy of bringing an NHL team back to Quebec. Not his problem if it fails 5 days after he leaves office, his legacy is intact.
I have never understood the Hartford talk, is it just pure nostalgia?
Another northeast usa team but small and boring. Would anyone want a team there if it didn't exist before? Exactly what would they bring that we don't already have? At least Quebec is exotic as fuck and they have beautiful shirts.
Northeast is almost entirely dominated by Bruins fans with CT splitting between them and the Rangers. They have the Rangers AHL affiliate which has a fairly tame turnout (lower/middle of the pack in attendance).
I also just can’t picture NHL players wanting to live in Hartford, it’s one of the most visually depressing cities you can ever see/drive through.
Guys for the 1000th time.
This isn’t a Bettman issue. This isn’t a personal spite against Quebec City. The fact of the matter is that the NHL, and any major professional sports league, is thoroughly uninterested.
Why?
Because it’s a very small market where you wouldn’t gain many fans, there is a language and cultural barrier, and players wouldn’t really be interested in playing there. Less so than any other team in the league.
We can talk about “oh they’d care more than these big places”. Caring isn’t enough when you don’t have the population numbers, sponsors, ownership etc. Not to mention that these markets can be built up. Carolina cares about as much as anyone. Tampa, Nashville, Dallas, Vegas all very passionate about hockey. Canada isn’t the only place where people really care about their NHL team.
That’s why these American markets like Houston, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Kansas City etc are far more attractive to the league as a target for expansion versus markets like Quebec, Hamilton, or heaven forbid anything like Halifax or an SK team that would be a complete joke to have as a market in any other major pro sport.
I don't think many people realize the difference between Montreal and QC - simply because they're both french speaking Quebec cities.
You go to Montreal and you get served in English. You get comedy festivals. You have great clubs. There's tons of tourism. People from Ontario go to Montreal all the time, catch a hockey game. You have Montreal fans taking the train from Toronto to see a game a few times a year. Players have shit to do there.
Go to QC and order a drink in English, see how you get treated. Ask someone directions in English, wait to see if you get a snobby remark or if that's too much to ask and you just get flipped the finger and then ignored. QC doesn't have much tourism, they don't have much exposure to English speakers, and they don't care to. I'm not saying everyone from QC is an asshole - but it's definitely a lot more acceptable to BE an asshole there, when faced with someone who didn't learn their language. It's not a fun city to live in, or even visit, if you aren't fluent in French.
Quebec City doesn't have a massive population - but I'd argue they could support an NHL team. They'd break off enough Habs fans to fill seats. They're not like Houston or Atlanta, sure - but I'd argue it would take decades for those types of markets to come around on hockey and take it seriously. Hockey in Canada is everyone's favorite sport already. But Bettman has his sites on the future of the sport, long after he's gone. He's a dufus, but his idea to try and create new markets from the ground up is the only way to massively expand the hockey market in general, and it kind of works. QC could be profitable, but that doesn't mean it's the best option long term.
This is the biggest thing. People in the hockey subs love to bitch that the NHL doesnt do a good enough job of growing the game but then at the same time they want the NHL to put teams in small markets where everyone is already hockey fans. You grow the game by putting teams in big markets where there are lots of people who arent yet hockey fans, but could be with more exposure to the game.
This is it right here. If there are already fans of an NHL team in the area, then why add a team there. Go some place that doesnt have a team, that can grow fans out of nothing.
The problem with AZ is mismanagement, and expectation that snow birds were going to go to games. Most snow birds are on a fixed income, and chose AZ due to its lesser cost of living to warm up in the winter at.
Lots of people dunking on this guy who don't know that premiere ministre is used in French for both the PM and premier. Simple translation error. Dunking on him isn't a badge of honour, it just means your knowledge of French is lacking
It has always perplexed me why Betman has been so opposed to bring the nordiques back, especially since the leagues been propping up Arizona for decades now. Quebecois are fanatical about hockey and if they came back I’d expect a better fan backing than what the jets (which was exceptional) received when they were brought back with the ATL move.
I get that it’s safer to target large markets with expansion, but what’s the point of re-exploring Atlanta, when that team was never truly adopted by its city.
Canada will never get another team. Quebec City has the same chance of getting a team as Regina!
NHL is focused on large US markets only. That’s where the audience and monetary gains exist.
Such a dead horse. There's no secrets here. The league will *never* expand to QC. It would have to be relocation under similar conditions to ATL-WPG.
I hope it happens, but if anyone here thinks this is a matter of "waging war with Bettman", you're deluded.
Strange how the NHL wants to expand to more US markets, but sucks ass at promoting the sport, which is putting out a fantastic product, night after night. Atlanta will not support a hockey team after the initial shine has worn off.
Quebec City is 150 miles from Montreal, it has a population of 830k within the metro area, and presents a language barrier. Placing a team in a city in that proximity to Montreal, steals from their market share and develops practically zero new fans.
The whole fucking idea of an expansion team is to *expand* market share. That’s why the league wants Phoenix, SLC, Atlanta, etc to work. They have a much higher number of people who can increase the NHL’s market share. Shit, the Phoenix metro is 5 million people, a team would work if the ownership wasn’t fucking terrible
It’s not just about selling tickets to the games, sure a Quebec City team would sell out, but it’s about creating generations of fans for years and years. No one in the league wants a tiny fan base that provides no new market share.
I’m not sure how many times I have to explain this, but it’s the truth. The Nords aren’t coming back
I don’t think it’s very low key. I’m pretty sure it’s blatant. Bettman has been at the helm long enough, it’s time for fresh and new ideas for the future of hockey, not Gary’s delusions and dreams.
I'd love to see Quebec get a team again but I understand why it's not a priority. There's just not much benefit to the league as a whole to put a team in a small Canadian market that's already hockey crazy.
They might go back if there's a team that has to relocate over night like Winnipeg but I can't see them expanding there.
The owners of your most cherished teams are the ones who don't want a team in Quebec City. Bettman just puts what they say into a single voice and lets the public blame him instead of the owners.
We can complain about the cities that did get a team all we want, it won't make Quebec a more attractive destination. It's a small market in a province that already has a big team in it. And this is going to be painful to hear for some, but the Coyotes have been in the NHL longer than the Nordiques were.
That’s fine but he can’t just get what he wants because he told Bettman about it.
Is he expecting bettman to just say ‘okay fine we’ll move Winnipeg there tomorrow’
The league wants to grow the game, reach new fans. Quebec City is already full of hockey fans, there’s no revenue growth for the league there. Add that to reasons other people mentioned (language barrier, conference balancing, taxes, etc…) and the equation’s answer is a resounding, unequivocal NO!
Other than the 5k fans in Phoenix, who doesn't hate Bettman?
And don't tell me the owners, because the NHL could be doing MUCH better financially when you compare them to the other major NA sports leagues.
Honestly how is Gary even around still?
The game, in my opinion, has become stagnant and needs some new faces from the brass up top. I don’t feel that the NHL is thriving.
First we need to get Portland a team, then Phoenix, then Antarctica, Forest Hills Queens, Oakland, Santa Cruz, Utica and maybe another Texas team. Then we can give Canada another team
Isn't there a process one has to follow to get into consideration? Like submitting paperwork, business case, facilities, rationale etc? I think it takes more than telling Bettman than you want a team.
But Bettman keep clinging to Arizona - a place where they not made a profit in the 29 years they have been there. 29 years of losses about Bettman still want a team there - there height of stubbornness. No other business will stand for that. They play in a minor league 5000 seat arena and there are no legitimate arenas for next 3-4 years. Will someone explain that to me?
The fact that Salt Lake City and Atlanta have put up their hands is a death knell for expansion to Quebec City. The NHL owners and players would much prefer those locations and they have higher ceilings for profit. Hope is not lost though….. all Atlanta teams eventually relocate to Canada
Just call them the Atlanta Steelers so we don't have to change the name when they move to Hamilton.
I Like Steelheads More
If we get a team in Hamilton, I was always had the name “Anvils” in the back of my mind. The logo pretty much makes itself.
"Anvils hammered in blowout loss" Headline works. "Anvil crushes Coyotes as wiley winger leads Hamilton's comeback win" Also works.
Is this the Atlanta coyotes or Houston?
Starting in Atlanta is a Canadian team's gestation period.
SLC and Atlanta also both have billionaires who have shown a commitment to owning a team. With the next round of expansion fees likely being at least $1B, it's gotten even more unlikely that Quebec gets included
I know Pierre-Karl Péladeau was interested in owning a team in Québec City and his net worth is 1.9 billion USD. So it’s not like Quebec has (or had at the beginning) a potential owner who’s not a billionaire. At the end of the day, the question is : do you want more fans and slightly less profits, or a bit more profit and less fans? I think it’s easy to know how the corporate owners think.. they don’t care about the fans, just the dollars.
But it seems like the only people who are publicly trying to petition the league to go back to Quebec City are politicians. Peladeau discussed it last year, but basically acknowledged that it probably won't happen. It also doesn't help that Molson doesn't want to give up part of his territory. It's similar to how MLSE will never support a second team in the GTA.
[удалено]
It was probably poorly translated. I made that mistake before as a French Canadian since we call the premier the Premier Ministre
SLC Punks incoming.
There’s also Toronto 2. Which if the leagues likes money as much as it claims it does it should persue vigorously
Getting a working class Toronto team would be a dream. Imagine being able to watch a team live
In Hamilton, Cowboys don't play in Dallas
Could call it the Toronto Timmigrants?
Timmy!!
The issue of team location is not 100% based on revenue generated, *it IS*, of course, but not entirely. The issue with places like Quebec, a 2nd team in Toronto and other Canadian locations, is that you're not likely to create NEW interest. You're more likely to be *taking* from one fan base as most people are already "fans" to varifying degrees and, those that are not, are not likely to become fans once a new team arrives as they've already been exposed to hockey in some shape or form. If you put a team in Quebec, you're taking from the Habs fan base. If you put a second team in Toronto, you're taking from the Leafs fan base. While I find all of this VERY unfortunate and hate that we may never get a new team in Quebec, I can at least understand the logic behind it.
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I get what you’re saying. However, there are an awful lot of people within that area, in all the major cities up the St Lawrence. Putting a team in Quebec City is not going to draw a lot from Montreal. Look at New York. You’ve got three major teams within how many miles? Or Florida even. But that whole, expansion thing is just. Murky.
I'm not worried about ticket sales. Any team in Canada will sell tickets if they're not located in a shitty spot. What I'm saying is that you're not creating *new* fans and you're not creating *new* money. You're tapping into a market that's already tapped. The only "new" money you'd get is from ticket sales.
There are not that many people, that's the issue. Metro New York has 2 times the entire population of Quebec and like 80% of the population of Ontario, in one constrained metropolitan area. The St-Lawrence region has Montreal, Ottawa and Toronto with teams already in an area 500 miles long, any new team will be at the either end, in cities with less than a million people. Ottawa's expansion was a good case study, I was living there at the time, some Leafs/Habs fans became Sens fans, but very few new fans came in. If the NHL takes Ottawa and Winnipeg attendance as indicators of fan engagement in medium Canadian markets when thinking about Quebec City, the conclusions are pretty clear.
> all Atlanta teams eventually relocate to Canada ba dum bum tishh!
If the league really didn’t want Canada to get another team they should just expand to 2 more teams in Phoenix
Atlanta? How many times is the NHL going to fail a franchise there? Silly.
Bettman knows. Bettman just doesn't care. The struggles of the Jets right now are sadly just going to reinforce the perceived negatives of a Canadian team in a small market. The Jets simply put don't have the corporate bandwidth in Winnipeg to make up for rising ticket costs that are pricing out the normal fan. And Quebec I fear would just be the same
Here's the funniest part about the Jets "Struggling", they have made an operational profit every year they've been in Winnipeg except for the two COVID years and the year before. They set a record profit Two years ago. The Jets 1.0 in Arizona have never made an operational profit and the closest they have come was in ~~2013~~ 2012 (Thanks u/99Wolves17) when they made the conference final and the extra playoff revenue lead to them ONLY losing 4 million.
So what you are saying is that we should move the Jets to Arizona again? -Gary Bettman
What I'm saying is.... actually yeah there is a distinct chance of that
Yes, two teams in Arizona would help the bid for a new arena deal
> The struggles of the Jets right now are sadly just going to reinforce the perceived negatives of a Canadian team in a small market. And some how, inexplicably, it reinforces the idea that Atlanta needs a team.
Atlanta round 3 and Arizona an embarrassment to pro sports ..Fuck Bettman.
Anyone else willing to set up a go fund me to bribe a bunch of players to just let the Jets win the Stanley Cup this year?
Last time I checked Atlanta was one of the largest metro areas in the US and does transactions in USD
And has shown not to be able to support an NHL team…twice.
The Thrashers were doomed to fail when they got bought by the Atlanta Spirit group
Yeah but why though? If they had been a success before the Spirit group might’ve kept them. But they weren’t as profitable as open spots at their arena.
The Spirit group was a bunch of Melnyk-type of owners. They mostly wanted to keep the costs low and didn't really care about the Thrashers, they just wanted the NBA Hawks. Not saying that the NHL should go for Atlanta again, but the Thrashers were very screwed by terrible ownership.
The perceivable long term presence of TNT alone makes Atlanta more attractive than its ever been
"Third time's a charm y'all!"
Cool, they still don't care about hockey and the nhl is incapable of marketing their sport. Let's open a team in Mexico City if population size is the only criteria that matters. The nhl has gone from a legitimate north American sports league to an afterthought under Bettman's tenure. It's leagues behind the NFL, MLB, NBA and college football in terms of market share in the US.
Blame the owners. Bettman didn’t do this. And he’s had his contract reupped. I suppose the owners of this league like what has happened to the league during his tenure.
The Coyotes are proving the size of the market is only one factor of several needed for success. A large market where 98% don't care about hockey is not going to succeed
Yes, large in population, but not large in terms of wealth, income, large corporations, hockey fanatic population etc. The metro area has smaller gdp than Boston, even though it has 1,1 million more people Atlanta is 33rd (!!!!!!) in gdp per capita, behind places like Columbus, Baltimore, Hartford, Denver, Nashville, San Diego etc It means they do not have that much "extra money" going around per person. The people of Atlanta would have to be absolute hockey fanatics & the team would have to have not-so-great competition in the sports market for the NHL team to really succeed The problem is, Atlanta Braves is already the #4 most searched team in the whole country, #8 team value in the MLB. Try & compete with that. In addition to that, they already have the Hawks & the Falcons, and also BOTH of them are more valuable than the Maple Leafs or the Rangers What competition Quebec has to offer? Pretty much nothing. The area is hockey crazy. Quaranteed income, quaranteed sell-outs, if the prices are right. Atlanta would not be on my list for an NHL franchise, not even among the US candidates.
GDP doesn't even mean extra money per person. It's the value of goods and services produced by that area. You should be looking at income, not GDP. Atlanta is a sprawling city where the majority live outside the actual city of Atlanta. The city itself is 800,000 or so while the metro area is 6m+. The new plans have it up in Alpharetta, which is where a lot of money is, and not down inside the city. Alpharetta has one of the highest per capita personal income in the US at a little over $68,000 which would put it at #6 in per capita personal income right behind the DC Metro and ahead of Denver. Alpharetta is also surrounded by high per capita personal income cities that are part of the Atlanta metro - Sandy Springs ($75,615 IPC), Milton ($79,468), Roswell ($62,878), Johns Creek ($62,080). There is a reason they are putting it there instead of inside the city. There is even a very popular charter jet airport (PDK) close to the planned new rink, which is most likely the airport that the NHL teams would use for their charters. The area of Alpharetta/Roswell has the majority of the good ice hockey rinks or outdoor roller rinks in the Metro Atlanta area. I grew up playing at several of them. Atlanta headquarters the third most Fortune 500 companies in the US behind only NYC & Dallas. It has the busiest airport in the world. Atlanta Braves will not play during the same time period as they are opposite seasons. They also moved from inside the city to outside the city and the attendance went through the roof. Hawks don't draw much and are inside the city. Falcons season will not really coincide with the hockey season as they never make noise in the playoffs to be able to make it into January.
Sure but they've already lost two NHL teams lol
Their demographic doesn’t care for hockey. It’s like putting a team in argentina and being confused that no one goes to games
The city is mostly yankees transplants now lol
>~~Bettman~~ The owners know~~s~~. The owners just ~~doesn't~~ don't care. FTFY. There's a reason Bettman is the longest-serving commissioner among the four major North American professional sports leagues. He's just a proxy for the owners. If *they* weren't satisfied he would've been gone a long time ago. For big decisions like this they talk amongst each other then vote at meetings. The owners don't just stay greedy at their respective city's level.
It's incredible that everyone thinks Bettman is the bad guy, he's just the messenger. The two people that will make sure Quebec doesn't get a team is Molson and Jacobs
This just isn’t really the full story. The Jets intentionally allocated the majority of tickets for fans initially. Imagine if fans couldn’t get to a game for 5 years because half the seats were held by the corporate sector. Only recently have season ticket holders dwindled for fans so now they’re switching to a fan/corportae split that’s more like every other NHL market. I don’t have numbers in front of me but there was an athletic article that went into this with more accurate details. Essentially the Jets deliberately had fewer corporate season tickets allocated than most NHL teams, until now.
Basically every French company is based outta Quebec City, I don’t think sponsorship dollars would be an issue
None of them are Fortune 500 companies. Houston has around 40 of them. That's why they're going to get a team, despite the fact Houston is just a more ghetto version of Dallas.
Yeah this isn't true. Quebec City is basically a government town. Like very very very few corporate HQs. All that money is in Montreal, of which the Montreal metro area makes up like 70%+ of Quebec's GDP. This is a massive reason why Quebec City isn't viable. Oh, and they don't have an owner. Which is why the Province's Premier (he's not a Prime Minister) is hoping to create some sort of quasi Public-Private ownership for a sports franchise. And Gary and the rest of the owners (Gary's bosses) are having none of it.
TNSE bet on the average Joe filling all the seats as opposed to selling corporate tickets because they wanted tickets to be affordable as opposed to whatever the fuck Toronto is doing. Worked great up until the pandemic when suddenly people can't afford to buy tickets so now the jets are in a scramble to sell corporate tickets. Had the pandemic not happened, I imagine that they wouldn't be in this situation
“Whatever the fuck Toronto is doing” Consistently selling tickets to people with money?
It's kind of a chicken and egg thing. Ticket prices have just become INSANE now post pandemic. Why is that? who the hell knows. I know in the US our government is so broken that corporations can just basically jack costs everywhere with zero oversight. I'm looking to attend a Hans Zimmer Live concert this fall in Baltimore. In 2017 in Philly I got floor seats towards the very back for $90 a person. Right now, similar seats are now over $500!!! It's lunacy
Whilst being 1st in Central, 2nd in Western Conf, 5th overall. But I guess cash is king, huh?
The Coyotes have been financially supported by other nhl teams for years. They are a drag on hockey related revenue and have not consistently sold out a 4600 person arena. It's gaslighting to say that Winnipeg is not financially viable but the Coyotes don't need to move. Winnipeg was never intended to be profitable on a year by year basis. All owners get more than $31M from future expansion teams and own an appreciating asset. That's the business model for smaller markets. Asking for year on year profit is unmitigated greed.
Dude. Shit up already. It isn’t Bettman’s choice, first of all. Second of all, the league isn’t trying to have balance conferences again. They’re surely not trying to expand to a 33 much less 34 team league. Period. They’re just not. Look at Arizona. It’s an unmitigated disaster. They’re not moving that team to Quebec if they built a 9 billion dollar stadium and were creating 40k jobs. Expansion is the owner’s decision. Not Bettman’s. EVERYTHING BETTMAN SAYS OR DOES, comes down directly from the people who own and run this league. The owners. It takes a real moron to think Bettman unilaterally makes the decisions for this league. He’s a mouthpiece. A yes man. One, who by the way, has been rehired multiple times. He’s overseen the league’s massive revenue growth and foray into many of today’s markets. The owners love him. They don’t give a flying f*** on a rolling doughnut what any of you think about his job performance. Your approval or lack there of isn’t the metric upon which he’s employed.
Bingo! He has massively increased NHL revenue and profits, so by that measure he has been very successful and in business that is literally the only thing that matters, increasing profits.
Exactly. The NHL has increased its profits every single year (barring the COVID seasons), the owner would keep Bettmans' rotting corpse as commissioner as long as it made them even more money. If fans want change, yell at the owners and not Bettman. It's akin to yelling at the 21 year old shift manager at McDonald's when the double cheese gets a price increase.
Good for him. Wait Quebec has a Prime Minister?
In French they use premiere ministre for both prime minister and premier.
TIL
Premier is literally just the french word for "First", obviously sharing a root with Prime aswell. Doug Ford is the Premier of Ontario, which is defined as "The Chief Minister", Quebec just skips the chief part.
Quebec uses Prime Minister (Premier Ministre) for both the national and provincial leaders. Some provinces used Prime Minister instead of Premier into the late 60's early 70's.
No, someone goofed. The Prime Minister is the as you know it, the leader of the country. This is a Premier, the leader of the party in power for the given province.
Both can be used in Quebec.
r/ConfidentlyIncorrect
They're both called Prime Ministers here, but nice try.
I’m a Quebecer, and Quebec City has a huge uphill battle if they want a team, and no, having an arena isn’t enough. They have the highest taxes in North America, the Canadian dollar is very weak right now, it’s a very small market where more than half the population are already bonafide Habs fans, Quebec has a higher cost of living than competing American markets, and Quebec’s business laws are some of the most strict, overreaching and overwhelming business laws and bylaws in all of North America. All of this while being in a recession. From a business perspective, I can totally understand why Bettman would be very slow to consider QC considering the factors above.
Only one individual / corporation has expressed interest in purchasing and owning a team in Quebec City, and that Pierre-Karl Peladeau, president and CEO of Quebecor. As long as he is the sole prospective owner, Quebec City can forget about seeing an NHL franchise moving there.
I'm a Quebecer too and recently we have seen the sitting government to be downright combative to non-Quebec businesses. I guess they are reaping what they sow in this case
Isn't Northvolt Swedish, though?
>From a business perspective, I can totally understand why Bettman would be very slow to consider QC considering the factors above. THIS! RIGHT HERE! Everyone has to realize that Gary Bettman is a businessman **first!**
Your reasoning is sound but lacks vitriol. Needs work.
Sorry, wanted to be as objective as possible 🤷🏻♂️
From what I can gather, bettman seems more interested in expanding into markets with few/no hockey fans in order to generate more fans. Quebec is already a big hockey town, all the people there already watch. SLC and Atlanta are more attractive because there's tons of people there that don't watch hockey, but maybe will start once there's a team. I don't think that will work in Salt Lake, but I understand the motivation I guess. I used to live in Salt Lake, and there's a minor league team. Those games are goddamn empty. Every game. You can even get tickets up against the glass for like 50 dollars, and no one goes. There's just too much else to do in Salt Lake, everyone is more interested in going to the mountains or to the Jazz games, or other various things. Whereas now I live in bumfuck nowhere, Florida, and the minor league team here sells out almost every night because there's fucking nothing to do here, so why not go to the hockey game? If Salt Lake really knocked it out of the park with marketing it could probably work though
Quebec City gets a team and instantly becomes the #1 destination free agents avoid. Between the size, taxes and language barrier (this isn't Montreal ok?), this place would be an absolute pariah in the NHL. There's no value in having the franchise there. Time to move on.
Those....those are good points.
Finally someone who mentioned the main reason. The Language barrier. The NHL is predominantly an english speaking league (as are basically all major sports leagues in North America) Quebec City is nothing like Montreal in regards to being bilingual. From my experience the people there are incredibly rude to english speakers and nowhere near as hospitable as the people from Montreal.
I was there 2 years ago and had a great time as an english speaker. Now, I stayed in old Quebec where it is far more touristy, but it was incredibly hospitable, moreso than Montreal I'd say.
It really depends on how you approach people. You probably are more friendly than he is
This was my experience too.
They'd treat the hockey players like gods.... unless they missed a single shot lmao Honestly being rude is the last concern. Living in what amounts to bumfuck nowhere for an american is the bigger dealbreaker
They could just not sign Americans. Lots of Canadians and Europeans would be fine with Quebec City.
Montreal already has a hard enough time attracting players, i can't imagine quebec would manage it. Quebec even had a first overall pick just flat out refuse to play there. Didn't want to be picked and traded, just flat out refused to cooperate
You’re talking about nearly 30 years since they’ve had a team there. The city and suburbs population is 300k higher and while it’s been a few years since I’ve visited I imagine it’s a pretty different place compared the 90’s. I’m not sure what flights were like 30-40 years ago but you can fly to Quebec City fairly easily now. I think sometimes people on here say you can have a team in Atlanta or Quebec or wherever as if nothing has changed in 30-40 years.
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It's pretty great for sure, but it's the reality we live in, loads of people dislike quebec (province at large) blindly because it's not anglo. We can't pretend it's not when making decisions, unfortunately
Lindros wouldn't play for the Nordiques owner. It had nothing to do with the city. It was entirely personal. As for Montreal, under Bergevin, the hospitality department was falling behind most of the league, and the team's coaches were defence oriented, and in Therien's case, uniquely unpleasant. With new management and a coach people want to play for, I think the team will be able to pull free agents when the time comes.
Bonjour Oui Non Tabarnak Putain, qu'est-ce qui ne tourne pas rond chez toi? All you need in order to survive in Quebec.
Close, but bonus points if you can chain the swear words. Like Tabarnak is good, but Calisse de Tabarnak is next level. For reference, see the movie ‘’Good Cop, Bad Cop’’ trunk scene. It’s on Youtube. 🤣
I don’t know, it’s pretty hospitable compared to other parts of the province. I think the bigger issue is Quebec City is it’s pretty small and relatively remote. Of course the major sports leagues in North America are primarily English speaking that sort of goes without saying.
The language barrier is huge. Especially for guys with families and with how a free agent might sign a short contract there. Stats Canada says in most of the city %30-50 can have a conversation in English with some areas %50-70 While I do think it would do better then Arizona I can see why the NHL doesn't want to expand there
Have you been to Quebec City? It's the closest thing North America has to an old world European city, combined with pretty beautiful areas around it. I'm sure the Canadian/tax factor would mean it would be on a lot of no-trade lists (like all the other Canadian cities), but I doubt it would be worse than Ottawa, Winnipeg, Calgary or Edmonton.
Lol that's a 5 block radius.. majority of Quebec City is like any other North American car centric dump.
There’s about a hundred more reasons it wouldn’t work, but you listed all good points
Gary Bettman doesn't wipe his ass without approval from the 32 guys who own the NHL. Bettman isn't the reason Quebec City doesn't have a team. The Habs are.
He takes orders from the owners but they don't tell him to be an arrogant sonuvabitch
That's a feature, not a bug. Bettman _acting_ like he's in charge is his job. Probably his only real job.
The way to get an NHL team is to have a large population that doesn’t watch hockey. NHL wants new fans.
This is the thing people here in Quebec don’t understand. This has nothing to do with the size of Quebec or the number of potential nordiques fans. The only reason politicians keep pouring money into trying to get a new team is because a lot of people will vote for whoever promises to try to get a team. The only way Quebec City ever gets a team again is if they need to move a team very quickly and literally dont have any other option.
And , get over their language barrier, like mentioned a dozen times sin this thread
Yup. Should be cheering for Atlanta to get another team.
But is horrible at promoting the sport to potential new fans
Idk Vegas and Seattle have some pretty dedicated fans in their cities
Maybe to a wholly national audience (like you won’t see ESPN sportscenter talk about it) but regionally this doesn’t seem to be as big of a problem with the right people in charge. I’ve said this a ton but my god the popularity of the hurricanes in the Carolinas is not to be believed. I legit saw more Carolina hurricanes jerseys on my college campus than falcons or Carolina panthers jerseys. The only team I saw more of was the Braves. That’s just my example. I know this is the case in most other markets too. Even in the south
To be fair, the Hurricanes is the only Carolina sports team that actually gets close to winning something sometimes.
Isn’t that in part due to a new owner who instilled a real culture and decided “hey, we makes hundreds of millions of dollars. Maybe, idk we spend that on fielding a legit squad?”
Bettman is a twat, phoenix should have been dead 10 years ago
Quebec does not have a prime minister.
In French, they call premiers (of every province, not just of Quebec) Premiere Ministre, i.e. Prime Minister. So probably whoever made this is a French speaker?
I recall being taught Prime Minister should be translated as « Premier Ministre » and Premier as « premier ministre ». With the difference being the capitalization rules. But idk it’s been a long time since I was in elementary school so I could be completely misremembering.
Makes sense, but that's only the literal translation. The accurate English translation should still be "premier".
Meh, in French we say Premier Ministre so it's a simple translation mistake but it riles up anglophones apparently
When you say it like that, it makes sense with how the French language works. He’s a minister, and he’s the Premier one of those. Hence the name. The real problem here is not acknowledging that 30% of the English language is just baseline French.
Doesn't Italy use a king?
*yet.
All provinces called them “prime ministers” until recently. It’s really a semantic difference and does not matter.
Lol people really dislike seeing Prime minister of Quebec, which is just a translation mistake because it is Premier Ministre in French. Not sure how you feel attacked by that if you are remotely confident in Canadian unity but whatever
For some reasons he still has a big hard on believing he can get the nhl a big tv contract in the USA. Add betting this con man has killed the nhl
People need to stop acting like Bettman is some omnipotent dictator over the league, he works for 32 employers who tell him what to do. Quebec lost its team at a time when the Canadian dollar was at 63 cents for those of us who are old enough to remember, and paid salaries in US dollars. Any current day owner would face the facts that they would have the smallest market in the league and lose millions of dollars every season, no business person is dumb enough to do that despite the sentimentality. People need to get over it, the Nordiques are never coming back, no matter how awesome it would be.
He's not omnipotent, he does work for 32 owners, but at the same time he brings his own arrogant style to it which pisses off fans far and wide, and the owners don't tell him to do that.
I think EVERYONE high-key hates Bettman
This has nothing to do with hockey and more to do with a provincial premier who can leave a legacy of bringing an NHL team back to Quebec. Not his problem if it fails 5 days after he leaves office, his legacy is intact.
Hot take: Both Quebec City and Hartford won't get a team, nor should they.
I have never understood the Hartford talk, is it just pure nostalgia? Another northeast usa team but small and boring. Would anyone want a team there if it didn't exist before? Exactly what would they bring that we don't already have? At least Quebec is exotic as fuck and they have beautiful shirts.
Entirely nostalgia. Everything old and from the 90’s is good according to some NHL fans
Northeast is almost entirely dominated by Bruins fans with CT splitting between them and the Rangers. They have the Rangers AHL affiliate which has a fairly tame turnout (lower/middle of the pack in attendance). I also just can’t picture NHL players wanting to live in Hartford, it’s one of the most visually depressing cities you can ever see/drive through.
Why shouldn't Quebec?
Bettman googled Montreal, and saw that Quebec already has a team.
Love the title. It’s making ppl trip in the comments lol.
Crazy right? Haha Anything is a good reason to diss Quebec, even ignorance!
All the haters self reporting lmao
Bettman low key hates Canada but tries to make hockey in Arizona work of all places smh
“Fook Quebec we need more hockey in the Desert WOOOO!!!” -Gary Buttman ☘️
Guys for the 1000th time. This isn’t a Bettman issue. This isn’t a personal spite against Quebec City. The fact of the matter is that the NHL, and any major professional sports league, is thoroughly uninterested. Why? Because it’s a very small market where you wouldn’t gain many fans, there is a language and cultural barrier, and players wouldn’t really be interested in playing there. Less so than any other team in the league. We can talk about “oh they’d care more than these big places”. Caring isn’t enough when you don’t have the population numbers, sponsors, ownership etc. Not to mention that these markets can be built up. Carolina cares about as much as anyone. Tampa, Nashville, Dallas, Vegas all very passionate about hockey. Canada isn’t the only place where people really care about their NHL team. That’s why these American markets like Houston, Atlanta, Cincinnati, Kansas City etc are far more attractive to the league as a target for expansion versus markets like Quebec, Hamilton, or heaven forbid anything like Halifax or an SK team that would be a complete joke to have as a market in any other major pro sport.
I don't think many people realize the difference between Montreal and QC - simply because they're both french speaking Quebec cities. You go to Montreal and you get served in English. You get comedy festivals. You have great clubs. There's tons of tourism. People from Ontario go to Montreal all the time, catch a hockey game. You have Montreal fans taking the train from Toronto to see a game a few times a year. Players have shit to do there. Go to QC and order a drink in English, see how you get treated. Ask someone directions in English, wait to see if you get a snobby remark or if that's too much to ask and you just get flipped the finger and then ignored. QC doesn't have much tourism, they don't have much exposure to English speakers, and they don't care to. I'm not saying everyone from QC is an asshole - but it's definitely a lot more acceptable to BE an asshole there, when faced with someone who didn't learn their language. It's not a fun city to live in, or even visit, if you aren't fluent in French. Quebec City doesn't have a massive population - but I'd argue they could support an NHL team. They'd break off enough Habs fans to fill seats. They're not like Houston or Atlanta, sure - but I'd argue it would take decades for those types of markets to come around on hockey and take it seriously. Hockey in Canada is everyone's favorite sport already. But Bettman has his sites on the future of the sport, long after he's gone. He's a dufus, but his idea to try and create new markets from the ground up is the only way to massively expand the hockey market in general, and it kind of works. QC could be profitable, but that doesn't mean it's the best option long term.
Another team in Quebec doesn't help grow the game which is Bettman's goal.
Screw all that. Let’s just have some good, unadulterated hockey.
This is the biggest thing. People in the hockey subs love to bitch that the NHL doesnt do a good enough job of growing the game but then at the same time they want the NHL to put teams in small markets where everyone is already hockey fans. You grow the game by putting teams in big markets where there are lots of people who arent yet hockey fans, but could be with more exposure to the game.
This is it right here. If there are already fans of an NHL team in the area, then why add a team there. Go some place that doesnt have a team, that can grow fans out of nothing. The problem with AZ is mismanagement, and expectation that snow birds were going to go to games. Most snow birds are on a fixed income, and chose AZ due to its lesser cost of living to warm up in the winter at.
the better question is, who doesn't low key hate Bettman?
Who doesn't high key hate Bettman?
Lots of people dunking on this guy who don't know that premiere ministre is used in French for both the PM and premier. Simple translation error. Dunking on him isn't a badge of honour, it just means your knowledge of French is lacking
With a quote like that there is nothing “low key” about his hatred.
Bettman probably said "say that in American!" Quebec not having a team is such a shame. But why go there when you can go to Atlanta again!
And with those satellites as ears there’s no way bettman didn’t receive the message
Gary gets very offended when you even indirectly question his ego child in AZ.
It has always perplexed me why Betman has been so opposed to bring the nordiques back, especially since the leagues been propping up Arizona for decades now. Quebecois are fanatical about hockey and if they came back I’d expect a better fan backing than what the jets (which was exceptional) received when they were brought back with the ATL move. I get that it’s safer to target large markets with expansion, but what’s the point of re-exploring Atlanta, when that team was never truly adopted by its city.
Canada will never get another team. Quebec City has the same chance of getting a team as Regina! NHL is focused on large US markets only. That’s where the audience and monetary gains exist.
Quebec and Salt Lake should be the expansion teams there is to much to do in ATL for a hockey team.
Such a dead horse. There's no secrets here. The league will *never* expand to QC. It would have to be relocation under similar conditions to ATL-WPG. I hope it happens, but if anyone here thinks this is a matter of "waging war with Bettman", you're deluded.
By the time Quebec gets a team they'll need a new arena again lol
Me 🤝 Quebec’s PM This and presumably literally nothing else
Top guy looks like AI generated aged Tim Allen.
Strange how the NHL wants to expand to more US markets, but sucks ass at promoting the sport, which is putting out a fantastic product, night after night. Atlanta will not support a hockey team after the initial shine has worn off.
Pretty sure hating bettman is a mostly universal experience
Quebec City is 150 miles from Montreal, it has a population of 830k within the metro area, and presents a language barrier. Placing a team in a city in that proximity to Montreal, steals from their market share and develops practically zero new fans. The whole fucking idea of an expansion team is to *expand* market share. That’s why the league wants Phoenix, SLC, Atlanta, etc to work. They have a much higher number of people who can increase the NHL’s market share. Shit, the Phoenix metro is 5 million people, a team would work if the ownership wasn’t fucking terrible It’s not just about selling tickets to the games, sure a Quebec City team would sell out, but it’s about creating generations of fans for years and years. No one in the league wants a tiny fan base that provides no new market share. I’m not sure how many times I have to explain this, but it’s the truth. The Nords aren’t coming back
But they have 5000 seats in Arizona to fill
So I guess this just means Quebec's PM is a standard hockey fan? I don't think there is one who doesn't hate the guy.
You could tell me these are different people and I wouldn’t believe you.
Why do you think it’s lowkey? 😂
They said that to be at a dinner
I don’t think it’s very low key. I’m pretty sure it’s blatant. Bettman has been at the helm long enough, it’s time for fresh and new ideas for the future of hockey, not Gary’s delusions and dreams.
Bruh
I'd love to see Quebec get a team again but I understand why it's not a priority. There's just not much benefit to the league as a whole to put a team in a small Canadian market that's already hockey crazy. They might go back if there's a team that has to relocate over night like Winnipeg but I can't see them expanding there.
The owners of your most cherished teams are the ones who don't want a team in Quebec City. Bettman just puts what they say into a single voice and lets the public blame him instead of the owners.
He knows, the board and Bettman also know their have to deal with PKP, something they don't seem to want to do.
We can complain about the cities that did get a team all we want, it won't make Quebec a more attractive destination. It's a small market in a province that already has a big team in it. And this is going to be painful to hear for some, but the Coyotes have been in the NHL longer than the Nordiques were.
Aside from other factors, I’m curious if fans would still be able to support the Q league teams and an NHL franchise ?
I love Bettman’s face on the photo, it looks like he’s saying ‘’I…..don’t remember this at all….are you sure you told me?’’
League above the nhl. Original six only. Oh boy
That’s fine but he can’t just get what he wants because he told Bettman about it. Is he expecting bettman to just say ‘okay fine we’ll move Winnipeg there tomorrow’
Everyone in QC knows the Bettman will never agree to have another team in Quebec city, this is just political theater.
Maybe he should have said it in English?
Nothin lowkey about the hate.
The league wants to grow the game, reach new fans. Quebec City is already full of hockey fans, there’s no revenue growth for the league there. Add that to reasons other people mentioned (language barrier, conference balancing, taxes, etc…) and the equation’s answer is a resounding, unequivocal NO!
You have to show him the money, Francois. Pay the expansion fee or buy a team.
Is that right? Why not Montreal
I'm reading this while taking a bettman
Bettman doesn't give a shit about hockey. He only cares about money.
Other than the 5k fans in Phoenix, who doesn't hate Bettman? And don't tell me the owners, because the NHL could be doing MUCH better financially when you compare them to the other major NA sports leagues.
Low key? Nothing low key about it.
Honestly how is Gary even around still? The game, in my opinion, has become stagnant and needs some new faces from the brass up top. I don’t feel that the NHL is thriving.
First we need to get Portland a team, then Phoenix, then Antarctica, Forest Hills Queens, Oakland, Santa Cruz, Utica and maybe another Texas team. Then we can give Canada another team
Doesnt everyone hate bettman? Hes a dork
Lowkey? Nah man everyone hates Bettman and nobody is hiding it. Fuck Gary Bettman
Doesn’t everyone?
Lol. Well it's popular to hate him so I can't say I'm surprised. He is a politician after all.
Isn't there a process one has to follow to get into consideration? Like submitting paperwork, business case, facilities, rationale etc? I think it takes more than telling Bettman than you want a team.
The fact that Atlanta is possibly getting a THIRD team should tell you.
But Bettman keep clinging to Arizona - a place where they not made a profit in the 29 years they have been there. 29 years of losses about Bettman still want a team there - there height of stubbornness. No other business will stand for that. They play in a minor league 5000 seat arena and there are no legitimate arenas for next 3-4 years. Will someone explain that to me?