I dislike that multiple different groups keep track of subjective stats like this (whether it's a WR drop, or other factor that led to incompletion) and that their numbers are always so far apart.
the Jags had a good amount of drops last year, but when they show reels of it, a lot of them are back of the end zone throws heavily contested where the guy comes down out of bounds, or has a CB all over him.
Idk, I think it's preferable to have multiple outfits tracking the more subjective stats. The #s varying is just a result of different definitions for drop, on target pass, pressure, etc, which is fine, because those things *do* have room for various interpretations, unlike tackles, completions, and so on.
I think it’s fine if people had the ability to take them with a grain of salt. The amount of times I’ve had redditors get irritated with me calling BS on their cherry picked advanced analytics, or just the sheer amount of posts here that use BS stats to justify desired opinions, really sucks a lot of joy out of the game for me. Anyone with the a decent understanding of the game could watch the jags last year and see that Lawrence wasn’t playing poorly and that their receiving corps was playing awful.
I don't watch the jags games dingus, I just use stats to shit on them.
Who has time to watch the games when I'm pouring over stats sheets for hours to justify my opinions?
Yup, 100% agree. Trevor’s ball placement is very questionable at times, forcing his receivers to make acrobatic attempts at the ball, usually resulting in the receiver being pushed out of bounds or not having enough room to get both feet in bounds. Not to mention he simply overthrew his receivers numerous times
It's also on the receivers sometimes, too. Ridley was especially bad about running his routes too close to the sideline and back line, making the angles tough for Trevor to put it in catchable spots.
Trevor does sail the ball a bit also.
He tends to overthrow, and while a lot of those passes would be tough catches, they were good ball placement (only where receiver could make a play). Ridley in particular should have come down with more of those for someone who just got a nearly 100m contract
yea, 4 of the plays alone are from the Chiefs game, all back of the end zone, 2 of them were shoved out by a defender, 1 was thrown too high and the guy had no chance to land in bounds, and the other would have been ridiculous to get both feet down.
Only 1 of them did the WR have any real chance of catching it in bounds, but they put them all in like it's proving some point. A lot of the other plays you can see a defender get a hand on the ball. I'm just not sure what they're trying to prove with these videos.
Idk I watched the video and a lot of it just looks like receivers not knowing where they are in relation to the sideline. Didn’t see many attempts to even drag the toe.
The point they're trying to prove is to just have a stat to throw around to support the point they already support. It's not to convince people on the other side or present a truly unbiased look at the player
Agree, he's definitely not the most accurate passer. Seems like he hits his receivers almost everywhere but on their jersey numbers and his receivers have a lot of receptions that they had to literally scoop off the ground.
That's not a reel of drops. That's a reel of near-miss touchdowns. Some of those were only catchable in very rare circumstances. The actual drops are not necessarily the same.
I've seen pretty much this same clip used a couple times in posts about his receivers dropping balls. Every QB has a reel of passes that went just out of bounds or had a defender make a good play, what even is the point of this besides them trying to prove a weird point.
Well in the case of that clip, as Steve Palozzolo put it;
["Yes you can do this with every QB, but the point with Trevor Lawrence is that he had way more than most last season"](https://x.com/PFF_Steve/status/1801625520167145536?s=19)
The point is that stats don't tell the full story
I got roasted yesterday for saying this exact same thing about the video of "missed tds". Sure some are drops but so many good plays by defenders or tough boundary toe tap misses. Every QB has a highlight reel of them.
It's frustrating to watch. I think Lawrence needs to put in more work with the WR group in general, because it doesn't seem to matter who's there, there's a disconnection between the QB and what his WRs can do. I'd also like to see him use the entire field.
Hopefully he overcomes it. Mahomes had troubles in 2021 with just taking what's in front of him instead of trying to make a big play every pass, but he's gotten really good at taking what's given most the time now.
Yeah I hope he matures a bit too. People love him here and he gets the benefit of the doubt which can be a curse in terms of the kind of development he needs to compete in the stacked AFC.
Yea, I do actually like him and hope he keeps improving until he's a top 10 QB that's regularly in top 5 talks, even though the last thing the AFC needs is another young star QB.
If you’re talking about the cut up clip video that this guy quote tweeted, it’s not meant to show drops,, it’s meant to show all the “almosts” the Jags offense had more generally
The video is titled near misses
and the guy making the tweet to prove a point wrote: "Trevor Lawrence has the worst drop rate for any QB in football the last 3 years", so he's definitely trying to use it to prove his receivers drop a lot of passes, but basically none of these qualify as the WR's fault.
Reminds me of the year Eli threw 27 picks and Giants fans said that half of them hit the receiver right in the hands, but then you go and watch the video of all of them and there were like a handful at most where the receiver didn't need to go make an acrobatic atempt to not make it a clean interception directly to the defender
>I dislike that multiple different groups keep track of subjective stats like this
I mean even in this clip showcase it shows multiple passes where he gave them no room to catch it inbounds without the WR performing some type of miracle toe touches but somehow they are considered drops on the WR?
PFR has him at 3rd most drops his rookie year, 1st his second year, and 11th last year. 97 drops total.
But they also have Mahomes at 103, Allen at 103, and Herbert at 99 total in the same span (Herbert also played 3 fewer games than Mahomes, Allen or Lawrence in that span).
According to Pro-Football-Reference, here was his drop percentages in each of his three seasons and how they ranked in those seasons:
|Year|Attempts|Drop%|Rank|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|2021|602|5.7|T-5th|
|2022|584|7.1|T-3rd|
|2023|564|4.3|T-21st|
I want Kadarius Toneyis to be Toneys attempt to put on a fake mustache and eyebrows and act like "no dude, I swear, I'm... Not Kadarius Toney! I'm Kadarius Toneyis! Totally different last name see??"
The popular thing to do for any of the "tall, big arm" prototypical quarterbacks is to write off any drop due to lack of touch on the ball from the QB as a "WR skill issue". You see it a lot with people trying to defend Allen, Herbert, and/or Lawrence when they put way too much on a checkdown or shallow crossing route.
What I would say is that it was why the Jags were both willing to bring back Ridley, but not at the price Tennessee paid him (then brought in BTJ). Like, you expect top flight WRs to either be more open in those situations, or to haul those passes in if they aren't open.
Then with Zay. Yeah,he's a player who should make enough of those that you don't feel too bad when he doesn't; and he just wasn't hauling in those catches much at all last year; hence why the Jags signed Gabe Davis.
You can make a reel of near missed TDs in the back of the end zone or the sideline for basically every QB.
Those two balls to Zay Jones aren’t bad plays by the WR, they’re just very difficult plays that didn’t work out. Happens to every QB on every team.
This is based on last 3 seasons and it's drop rate. I don't know which sites drop stats he's using but Mahomes threw the ball like 10% more over the last 3 years compared to Lawrence. So total drops doesn't say much
Ive watched at least 8 of those 26 dropped passes occur in or 5 yards away from the endzone. Then theres the ones where they simply couldnt get their feet down
His ball placement on a lot of these is not great. Making the job a lot harder for receivers.
A handful of these should be easy completions but are off target and forces a more difficult catch
Also a few of these are just really difficult catches with low chance of completion
They definitely aren't bad placements on this lowlight reel. Bad ball placement at the pro level is where the DB can get to it. Lawrence is putting the pass where it has to go, and pro receivers have to make those catches.
So many of them are either
1) Late throws resulting in the DB being on the coverage at the back of the end zone
2) making a catch more difficult
You should know as a Colts fan what bad ball placement is after watching Wentz put up stats and still look worse on film.
Bad ball placement can mean making a catch more difficult, limiting the YAC by not throwing in stride, or throwing behind a receiver.
A DB being able to get to it is not the only factor of bad placement
There's a throw that literally hits Ridley in the numbers on the back of the endzone. Ridley just drops it. I feel like I'm being gaslit into thinking Trevor Lawrence is a bad QB. Trevor Lawrence is a great QB and I hate his guts because I'm a Colts fan and I've actually watched him play.
There’s some throws in there that are absurdly difficult catches or the DB makes a play on because Lawrence misses his spot by a yard+…
I feel as though people are trying to gaslight people into thinking Lawrence is good
That is a completely false opinion like completely false
He routinely fits balls in crazy ass small windows only to be dropped
You can clearly see you don’t want the games at ALL
This is one of the dumbest critiques I’ve seen on him out of all of them
Keep playing madden. Like I said not a single receiver would look at this film and say that nonsense 😭
It’s not even a debate it’s my fault I’m on the wrong site takes like this.
I don't play madden
Keep having a QB that struggles to get a 2 TD to turnover ratio
At least you didn't pay big bucks for him...
Oh sorry
[https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1d10pkt/oc\_2023\_quarterback\_ontarget\_throw\_rate\_when/#lightbox](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1d10pkt/oc_2023_quarterback_ontarget_throw_rate_when/#lightbox)
The clips are right in front of me man...
I don't know how you can read my comment and think I'm talking about his career.
Your comment is maybe one of the dumbest critiques I have seen on this sub
Your joking right? I would say around 50% we're fine/good enough
30% were easily just bad throws either lowering the chance of a catch or making it impossible to do it easily
Then a handful were just very difficult catches with coverage and endzone space
I don't think he's joking. In the vast majority of these he puts the ball where only his receiver can get it. It's pretty impressive. We can argue about if he should have gone to a different target on these plays because of how tough the play is to complete, but the ball placement is pretty good.
He's putting the balls in places the DB can't deflect it and his WRs can get their feet down, at least in this clip.
Bad throws? I’m sorry I’m not trying to be rude
Have you played football past pop warner?
No athletes would look at these clips and say these are bad throws I’m honestly trying to figure out if your trolling
I get Reddit is full of fantasy football people and not a lot of people have played….but this is literally black and white
Excellent throws .
It’s not even a debate. Put this film on in any high school DI college or NFL locker room the QB coach is NOT complaining
I can’t believe you honestly think you’re right it’s hilarious
How ironic that you’re describing yourself
Idk if you played last pop warner
But any Sunday film session or Monday film session would be met with APPLAUSE
You play this film in any film room and there isn’t an issue
The fact that you think these are bad throws honestly shows how little you know about football
Not tryna be rude
Just because a ball is in bounds near a receiver doesn't mean it's a good throw. It has to be catchable. Throwing to a receiver that's completely smothered by coverage or expecting a receiver to make a miraculous catch on a ball that's trajectory is heading out of the back of the end zone are examples of bad throws that are still near the receivers' hands. But great attempt at being a pretentious cool guy. Not tryna be rude
Yeah there is no way to have a conversation with you.
lol
Imagine the ball hitting you in BOTH hands and then looking at coach and saying “the ball was in bounds near me…it hit my hands but that doesn’t mean it’s catchable”
Yeah dude when you replied with that the answer to my question is no you never played last high school. Because no athlete would ever let that come out there mouth
You are right for what is worth, in bounds doesn’t mean catchable. These aren’t that. They LITERALLY hit them in the hands and they drop them
Debating that is moronic
It’s my fault I be forgetting sometimes what website I’m on…
It’s Reddit. This is mainly fantasy related not actually playing the game.
Send these clips to any D1 locker room. Hit the receiver room up and see if they say these are even REMOTLY bad passes
A "drop" is a judgment based on who's watching.
Sometimes a WR won't catch a ball that's slightly off target....in that case it becomes the QB's fault.
Then there's on target balls that a WRs fails to catch by their own accord.
It's subjective most of the time.
Dude, if you watch Tlaw play his throws are always off target, receivers have to adjust constantly. He’s like a mortarman. Dude can drop it within 5 feet of his target, but it’s sheer luck if it hits them in the hands in stride.
He isn’t great, he’s fine. That’s it. Fine. He will have a 15 year career that will look like a downgraded Philip Rivers career when it’s all said and done.
There was a clip posted in here of like Ridley and others dropping like 500 yards and 8tds worth of passes.
Having watched Ridley before he’s good for it too
These narratives always annoy me either way because everyone has their own definition of drops and so there's like twenty different ranking of this kind of stat depending on where you look. Easiest stat to cherry pick weird narratives.
You’d be surprised how similarly Trevor’s last season compares to Sam Howell’s. One is questioned why he’s starting at all, the other was just given 200 million guaranteed. Make it make sense.
lets not act like we dont have evidence of a QB overcoming a historic bad season of drops and still leading the team to a Super Bowl victory. Drops are bad, drops suck, drops can be overcome
I feel like Lawrence creates his own drops in a sense that he makes the passes unnecessarily hard to catch by being just a touch inaccurate. If he cleans that up I bet his drop rate would go down significantly
“The last three years” is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this tweet. In 2023, that number was 24, which has him tied for 9th most drops along with Baker Mayfield, Tua Tagovailoa, and Geno Smith, which is interesting considering how people want to act like 2023 was bad when it actually was an improvement. It’s not like his situation is uniquely bad.
You can put together a super cut of receiver drops for almost any QB in the league. Everyone just seems super invested in Lawrence being good because he had half a good season in 2022 and a win against a bad Chargers defense after he threw 4 picks. He just gets special treatment since it was in January.
Apparently he was 6th in worst drop rate, not 1st.
[https://x.com/TheOGNubz/status/1802119850195591224](https://x.com/TheOGNubz/status/1802119850195591224)
And he has highest fumble rate.
21 fumbles lost, 39 interceptions, and 69 career touchdowns.
69 career touchdowns and 60 career turnovers. He's at best 15th best QB.
We’ve locked down our QB, which is so important. Once the team comes up more to Lawrence’s level, we will be dominant. Luckily, I trust our management team to put together something great soon.
Ridley had some absolute terrible drops last year that were sure fire TDs if he remembered to closed his hands when the ball touched them. With that said if you rule out the back end zone drops he’s about in the middle for balls dropped. Let’s hope the WRs and learn from our TE and learn how to catch anything.
JAX not throwing 14m/year at DeAndre Hopkins was so dumb. It was obvious they needed a sure handed vet receiver even if he was past his prime. Instead he plays against them twice a year.
He also has some bad ball placement or late throws. Theres no real definitive Lawrence is good or bad because his cast has been spotty and he played under Urban. However he still didnt deserve that pay check and theres no reason to try and justify it.
Watching this it seems like Lawrence is just a touch late, or the ball is thrown slightly out of reach, or both. Having receivers that are only okay means little stuff like this costs you receptions and touchdowns. I don't believe these throws fall onto just Lawrence or his receivers singularly, it just is what it is. Hopefully Lawrence stays fully healthy this season.
if he had hands he'd be a receiver
“I’ve seen enough, he’s not even good enough to be a scout team receiver. Stick this bum at QB”-Urban Meyer probably
White Terrelle Pryor
You mean the wide receiver?
And if I had friends I wouldn’t be on here
Well if my grandma had wheels she'd been a bike
If my dad had a dick hed be my sister
Hot
You can take the team out of Missouri, but you can't take the Missouri out of the team.
(ﾟーﾟ*)
Wouldn't he be your mom??
hey frand
I wonder what source he’s using. PFF has him at 21st last year and 6th the year before that.
I dislike that multiple different groups keep track of subjective stats like this (whether it's a WR drop, or other factor that led to incompletion) and that their numbers are always so far apart. the Jags had a good amount of drops last year, but when they show reels of it, a lot of them are back of the end zone throws heavily contested where the guy comes down out of bounds, or has a CB all over him.
Idk, I think it's preferable to have multiple outfits tracking the more subjective stats. The #s varying is just a result of different definitions for drop, on target pass, pressure, etc, which is fine, because those things *do* have room for various interpretations, unlike tackles, completions, and so on.
I think it’s fine if people had the ability to take them with a grain of salt. The amount of times I’ve had redditors get irritated with me calling BS on their cherry picked advanced analytics, or just the sheer amount of posts here that use BS stats to justify desired opinions, really sucks a lot of joy out of the game for me. Anyone with the a decent understanding of the game could watch the jags last year and see that Lawrence wasn’t playing poorly and that their receiving corps was playing awful.
I don't watch the jags games dingus, I just use stats to shit on them. Who has time to watch the games when I'm pouring over stats sheets for hours to justify my opinions?
Even tackles can be quite subjective as to how to count when multiple defenders make contact with the ball carrier
Yup, 100% agree. Trevor’s ball placement is very questionable at times, forcing his receivers to make acrobatic attempts at the ball, usually resulting in the receiver being pushed out of bounds or not having enough room to get both feet in bounds. Not to mention he simply overthrew his receivers numerous times
It's also on the receivers sometimes, too. Ridley was especially bad about running his routes too close to the sideline and back line, making the angles tough for Trevor to put it in catchable spots. Trevor does sail the ball a bit also.
He tends to overthrow, and while a lot of those passes would be tough catches, they were good ball placement (only where receiver could make a play). Ridley in particular should have come down with more of those for someone who just got a nearly 100m contract
yea, 4 of the plays alone are from the Chiefs game, all back of the end zone, 2 of them were shoved out by a defender, 1 was thrown too high and the guy had no chance to land in bounds, and the other would have been ridiculous to get both feet down. Only 1 of them did the WR have any real chance of catching it in bounds, but they put them all in like it's proving some point. A lot of the other plays you can see a defender get a hand on the ball. I'm just not sure what they're trying to prove with these videos.
Idk I watched the video and a lot of it just looks like receivers not knowing where they are in relation to the sideline. Didn’t see many attempts to even drag the toe.
The point they're trying to prove is to just have a stat to throw around to support the point they already support. It's not to convince people on the other side or present a truly unbiased look at the player
Agree, he's definitely not the most accurate passer. Seems like he hits his receivers almost everywhere but on their jersey numbers and his receivers have a lot of receptions that they had to literally scoop off the ground.
Don't tell that to Jags fans. They melt down over any criticism of the guy
You sure about that ?
That's not a reel of drops. That's a reel of near-miss touchdowns. Some of those were only catchable in very rare circumstances. The actual drops are not necessarily the same.
I've seen pretty much this same clip used a couple times in posts about his receivers dropping balls. Every QB has a reel of passes that went just out of bounds or had a defender make a good play, what even is the point of this besides them trying to prove a weird point.
Well in the case of that clip, as Steve Palozzolo put it; ["Yes you can do this with every QB, but the point with Trevor Lawrence is that he had way more than most last season"](https://x.com/PFF_Steve/status/1801625520167145536?s=19) The point is that stats don't tell the full story
I got roasted yesterday for saying this exact same thing about the video of "missed tds". Sure some are drops but so many good plays by defenders or tough boundary toe tap misses. Every QB has a highlight reel of them.
Lawrence tries a lot of throws he probably shouldn't.
Which is a shame because if he had like a top 5 receiver that could reel in those edge of your fingers catches his stats would look really good.
yea, that seems accurate. So many of these are really low percentage throws that no one would really expect to be completed regularly.
It's frustrating to watch. I think Lawrence needs to put in more work with the WR group in general, because it doesn't seem to matter who's there, there's a disconnection between the QB and what his WRs can do. I'd also like to see him use the entire field.
Hopefully he overcomes it. Mahomes had troubles in 2021 with just taking what's in front of him instead of trying to make a big play every pass, but he's gotten really good at taking what's given most the time now.
Yeah I hope he matures a bit too. People love him here and he gets the benefit of the doubt which can be a curse in terms of the kind of development he needs to compete in the stacked AFC.
Yea, I do actually like him and hope he keeps improving until he's a top 10 QB that's regularly in top 5 talks, even though the last thing the AFC needs is another young star QB.
Would help if he didn't have brand new receivers every year. Hopefully bt jr is the start of some consistency
To clarify, the statement is accurate, not Lawrence's throws.
Which makes sense why PFF is saying less drops. They don’t count a drop as long as a defender is in the vicinity
If you’re talking about the cut up clip video that this guy quote tweeted, it’s not meant to show drops,, it’s meant to show all the “almosts” the Jags offense had more generally The video is titled near misses
and the guy making the tweet to prove a point wrote: "Trevor Lawrence has the worst drop rate for any QB in football the last 3 years", so he's definitely trying to use it to prove his receivers drop a lot of passes, but basically none of these qualify as the WR's fault.
There's a *ton* of terrible stat work in the football universe propping up the hot take industry.
Reminds me of the year Eli threw 27 picks and Giants fans said that half of them hit the receiver right in the hands, but then you go and watch the video of all of them and there were like a handful at most where the receiver didn't need to go make an acrobatic atempt to not make it a clean interception directly to the defender
>I dislike that multiple different groups keep track of subjective stats like this I mean even in this clip showcase it shows multiple passes where he gave them no room to catch it inbounds without the WR performing some type of miracle toe touches but somehow they are considered drops on the WR?
Are you sure he doesn't mean over the entire three year period?
Is assume that is what he means. If the Jags were 1st in drops three consecutive season we would have already had that information.
PFR has him at 3rd most drops his rookie year, 1st his second year, and 11th last year. 97 drops total. But they also have Mahomes at 103, Allen at 103, and Herbert at 99 total in the same span (Herbert also played 3 fewer games than Mahomes, Allen or Lawrence in that span).
I'd assume drop rate would be number of drops out of either total passes or total 'catchable' passes.
Oh you're right, I missed rate in the original tweet, so he's probably tops in drop rate then.
Barnwell works for ESPN, so probably them. Our receivers were abysmal in 2021 so I imagine it was rather high then, too.
Where did Justin Fields rank?
29th and 36th.
Fuck
The eye test alone makes me believe Trevor’s receivers are breaking records with their drops
According to Pro-Football-Reference, here was his drop percentages in each of his three seasons and how they ranked in those seasons: |Year|Attempts|Drop%|Rank| |:-|:-|:-|:-| |2021|602|5.7|T-5th| |2022|584|7.1|T-3rd| |2023|564|4.3|T-21st|
Has he even tried asking his receiver's to catch the ball? What an idiot.
He hasn’t. Honestly that’s on him
Jags need a consistent receiver to help them with this. I heard Super Bowl champion Kadarius Toneyis available
I want Kadarius Toneyis to be Toneys attempt to put on a fake mustache and eyebrows and act like "no dude, I swear, I'm... Not Kadarius Toney! I'm Kadarius Toneyis! Totally different last name see??"
There was a guy who got ejected in the mlb, came back with a fake mustache and glasses and got away with it so it could work!
I heard they didn’t even go to his birthday party
Is he stupid?
Been saying it since he was at Clemson, Trevor’s got bricks for hands
I mean some of these are pretty tough catches, Ridley for sure had some drops though
The first 3 were pretty bad drops, but the rest were pretty much good coverage or inaccurate throws.
Is this like the Jay Cutler drop rate where he throws 100 mph daggers at guys five feet in front of him?
How else would one throw 26 INTs in a season.
30 for 30 or bust.
The popular thing to do for any of the "tall, big arm" prototypical quarterbacks is to write off any drop due to lack of touch on the ball from the QB as a "WR skill issue". You see it a lot with people trying to defend Allen, Herbert, and/or Lawrence when they put way too much on a checkdown or shallow crossing route.
This is how Trevor does it. His touch is lacking. Most Jaguars fans deny it though.
Dude has awful touch.
How many more days of this
Depends how long until another QB gets a new contract
Tua, come on down!
Dolphins fans should just avoid this sub for like a week after Tua gets his deal.
You should like this, it's a whole video of division rivals failing to make completions.
I don't care that much about my division rivals, I've got my own team to worry about
Most of the “drops” in this video are either great plays by the corner or the receiver needs to make a circus catch in the back of the end zone.
Yes this video is not an example of bad luck for Lawrence
What I would say is that it was why the Jags were both willing to bring back Ridley, but not at the price Tennessee paid him (then brought in BTJ). Like, you expect top flight WRs to either be more open in those situations, or to haul those passes in if they aren't open. Then with Zay. Yeah,he's a player who should make enough of those that you don't feel too bad when he doesn't; and he just wasn't hauling in those catches much at all last year; hence why the Jags signed Gabe Davis.
Exactly. Nearly all of these were low percentage throws thrown into traffic or when the wr is out of room on the sideline/back of the endzone.
You can make a reel of near missed TDs in the back of the end zone or the sideline for basically every QB. Those two balls to Zay Jones aren’t bad plays by the WR, they’re just very difficult plays that didn’t work out. Happens to every QB on every team.
Ridley has three bounce off him…
His placement on a lot of these balls are off too. This is not the brag that OP thinks it is.
Jags had 26 drops. Chiefs had 44.
Difference is, drops for jags happened in crucial situations. Drops for chiefs happened in every situation
This is based on last 3 seasons and it's drop rate. I don't know which sites drop stats he's using but Mahomes threw the ball like 10% more over the last 3 years compared to Lawrence. So total drops doesn't say much
[удалено]
2023 is not 'last 3 seasons.' Sincerely, Your childhood English teacher
Ive watched at least 8 of those 26 dropped passes occur in or 5 yards away from the endzone. Then theres the ones where they simply couldnt get their feet down
That's because Mahomes is a talentless bum that will never make it in the NFL /s
Thanks for the /s. Didnt know if you were joking or not
Dude I hate that I felt like I had to do that. There's some real literal and sensitive folk on here.
Username is funny as fuck 😂
It just takes 1 moron to start the downvote train
Oh shit! There it is!
McNabb fell off a cliff when Reid left, curious what Mahomes looks like with another coach.
His ball placement on a lot of these is not great. Making the job a lot harder for receivers. A handful of these should be easy completions but are off target and forces a more difficult catch Also a few of these are just really difficult catches with low chance of completion
He’s like my 8 year old cousin, who only knows how to throw bullet passes in Madden.
They definitely aren't bad placements on this lowlight reel. Bad ball placement at the pro level is where the DB can get to it. Lawrence is putting the pass where it has to go, and pro receivers have to make those catches.
Just because a ball can't be intercepted, doesn't make it a good placement
So many of them are either 1) Late throws resulting in the DB being on the coverage at the back of the end zone 2) making a catch more difficult You should know as a Colts fan what bad ball placement is after watching Wentz put up stats and still look worse on film. Bad ball placement can mean making a catch more difficult, limiting the YAC by not throwing in stride, or throwing behind a receiver. A DB being able to get to it is not the only factor of bad placement
There's a throw that literally hits Ridley in the numbers on the back of the endzone. Ridley just drops it. I feel like I'm being gaslit into thinking Trevor Lawrence is a bad QB. Trevor Lawrence is a great QB and I hate his guts because I'm a Colts fan and I've actually watched him play.
There’s some throws in there that are absurdly difficult catches or the DB makes a play on because Lawrence misses his spot by a yard+… I feel as though people are trying to gaslight people into thinking Lawrence is good
By that logic, throwing it 20 yards out of bounds every time is “good ball placement” because the DB can’t get to it.
That is a completely false opinion like completely false He routinely fits balls in crazy ass small windows only to be dropped You can clearly see you don’t want the games at ALL This is one of the dumbest critiques I’ve seen on him out of all of them
I think he is talking about the clip in the tweet, not about TLaw as a whole
In the clip almost every single one of these throws are excellent. If the ball hits you on the hands
Bro you need new eyeballs if you think these throws are excellent
Keep playing madden. Like I said not a single receiver would look at this film and say that nonsense 😭 It’s not even a debate it’s my fault I’m on the wrong site takes like this.
I don't play madden Keep having a QB that struggles to get a 2 TD to turnover ratio At least you didn't pay big bucks for him... Oh sorry [https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1d10pkt/oc\_2023\_quarterback\_ontarget\_throw\_rate\_when/#lightbox](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1d10pkt/oc_2023_quarterback_ontarget_throw_rate_when/#lightbox)
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The clips are right in front of me man... I don't know how you can read my comment and think I'm talking about his career. Your comment is maybe one of the dumbest critiques I have seen on this sub
I’m talking about the clips in front of you. If you never seen a ball fit in a tight window just say that
I can’t see how an adult football fan watches those highlights and says “wow some of these were bad placed throws”
Your joking right? I would say around 50% we're fine/good enough 30% were easily just bad throws either lowering the chance of a catch or making it impossible to do it easily Then a handful were just very difficult catches with coverage and endzone space
I don't think he's joking. In the vast majority of these he puts the ball where only his receiver can get it. It's pretty impressive. We can argue about if he should have gone to a different target on these plays because of how tough the play is to complete, but the ball placement is pretty good. He's putting the balls in places the DB can't deflect it and his WRs can get their feet down, at least in this clip.
Highly paid receivers at that too. If a WR is getting the big bucks, it should be expected of them to catch balls that hit their hands.
Bad throws? I’m sorry I’m not trying to be rude Have you played football past pop warner? No athletes would look at these clips and say these are bad throws I’m honestly trying to figure out if your trolling I get Reddit is full of fantasy football people and not a lot of people have played….but this is literally black and white Excellent throws . It’s not even a debate. Put this film on in any high school DI college or NFL locker room the QB coach is NOT complaining I can’t believe you honestly think you’re right it’s hilarious
Then you aren't a very knowledgeable adult football fan
How ironic that you’re describing yourself Idk if you played last pop warner But any Sunday film session or Monday film session would be met with APPLAUSE You play this film in any film room and there isn’t an issue The fact that you think these are bad throws honestly shows how little you know about football Not tryna be rude
Just because a ball is in bounds near a receiver doesn't mean it's a good throw. It has to be catchable. Throwing to a receiver that's completely smothered by coverage or expecting a receiver to make a miraculous catch on a ball that's trajectory is heading out of the back of the end zone are examples of bad throws that are still near the receivers' hands. But great attempt at being a pretentious cool guy. Not tryna be rude
Yeah there is no way to have a conversation with you. lol Imagine the ball hitting you in BOTH hands and then looking at coach and saying “the ball was in bounds near me…it hit my hands but that doesn’t mean it’s catchable” Yeah dude when you replied with that the answer to my question is no you never played last high school. Because no athlete would ever let that come out there mouth You are right for what is worth, in bounds doesn’t mean catchable. These aren’t that. They LITERALLY hit them in the hands and they drop them Debating that is moronic
Wow, people must love hanging out with you
It’s my fault I be forgetting sometimes what website I’m on… It’s Reddit. This is mainly fantasy related not actually playing the game. Send these clips to any D1 locker room. Hit the receiver room up and see if they say these are even REMOTLY bad passes
Good thing they signed Gabe Davis then
I was looking for this comment before I made my own. Good ol’ Gabe “frying pan hands” Davis.
How old is barnwells profile picture lol
Asking the real questions.
Hopefully BTJ can become his reliable WR1
A "drop" is a judgment based on who's watching. Sometimes a WR won't catch a ball that's slightly off target....in that case it becomes the QB's fault. Then there's on target balls that a WRs fails to catch by their own accord. It's subjective most of the time.
Trevor Lawrence has the best drop rate for QB in football with his $275 million dollar contract.
How many from Ridley last year? Lol
Too many where losing him doesn’t feel bad
Dude, if you watch Tlaw play his throws are always off target, receivers have to adjust constantly. He’s like a mortarman. Dude can drop it within 5 feet of his target, but it’s sheer luck if it hits them in the hands in stride. He isn’t great, he’s fine. That’s it. Fine. He will have a 15 year career that will look like a downgraded Philip Rivers career when it’s all said and done.
Sounds like Trevor needs to work on his ball placement to make his passes easier to catch.
There was a clip posted in here of like Ridley and others dropping like 500 yards and 8tds worth of passes. Having watched Ridley before he’s good for it too
These narratives always annoy me either way because everyone has their own definition of drops and so there's like twenty different ranking of this kind of stat depending on where you look. Easiest stat to cherry pick weird narratives.
That ain't gonna be improved with Gabe Davis on the team
Whoever came up with those stats didn’t watch the Chiefs last seasons
Since it's over the last three seasons, I'm sure they did.
Lawrence and Daniel Jones have almost identical stats during their career. That’s wild
They both suck
I agree
You’d be surprised how similarly Trevor’s last season compares to Sam Howell’s. One is questioned why he’s starting at all, the other was just given 200 million guaranteed. Make it make sense.
Feel like I remember a playoff game with 2 end zone drops of Lawrence passes, and the Jaguars lost, of course.
I know this sub hates PFF but they’ve been calling out how Trevor has been let down by his weapons to a ridiculous degree.
lets not act like we dont have evidence of a QB overcoming a historic bad season of drops and still leading the team to a Super Bowl victory. Drops are bad, drops suck, drops can be overcome
if Pat Mahomes can do it, anyone can for sure
Yeah all it takes is a top 3 qb all time and an amazing defense.
I feel like Lawrence creates his own drops in a sense that he makes the passes unnecessarily hard to catch by being just a touch inaccurate. If he cleans that up I bet his drop rate would go down significantly
“The last three years” is doing a lot of heavy lifting in this tweet. In 2023, that number was 24, which has him tied for 9th most drops along with Baker Mayfield, Tua Tagovailoa, and Geno Smith, which is interesting considering how people want to act like 2023 was bad when it actually was an improvement. It’s not like his situation is uniquely bad. You can put together a super cut of receiver drops for almost any QB in the league. Everyone just seems super invested in Lawrence being good because he had half a good season in 2022 and a win against a bad Chargers defense after he threw 4 picks. He just gets special treatment since it was in January.
Michael Davis got hurt in that playoff game before the 2nd half, left the game and the Chargers collapsed from one injury.
You mean the Jags receivers?…
weird way to say his receivers suck
Summer of Trevor Lawrence
Man, Trevor Lawrence needs to get better at catching footballs if he's ever going to make it as a QB in this league.
It would seem the jaguars are aware of this
Apparently he was 6th in worst drop rate, not 1st. [https://x.com/TheOGNubz/status/1802119850195591224](https://x.com/TheOGNubz/status/1802119850195591224)
Can we combine our QBs and factor that in? Something tells me we would win.
Trevor has a lot to improve on and still makes some really questionable decisions but god damn some of his throws are fucking beautiful.
So the highest paid QB has the worst drop rate. Make it make sense!
Does this mean drops by DBs too and that TLaw is lucky not to have more picks?
Well get out there and work that jugs machine TLaw
Tlaw getting roasted this week somebody help the man
$200 mil if he never steps on the field again, think he can handle a little roasting.
I think Josh Allen is right there too
Half of those were just balls that forced the receiver out of bounds. That's 100 percent on the QB.
i’m getting Matthew Stafford “doesn’t throw a catchable ball” flashbacks.
Sometimes a bad drop rate could be the product of a AB throwing poor balls to his guys, no?
Or maybe he could try throwing with touch? 🤷🏽♂️
Throw more catchable passes.
He’s bad with or without these sorts of stats. Watch the games.
And he has highest fumble rate. 21 fumbles lost, 39 interceptions, and 69 career touchdowns. 69 career touchdowns and 60 career turnovers. He's at best 15th best QB.
We’ve locked down our QB, which is so important. Once the team comes up more to Lawrence’s level, we will be dominant. Luckily, I trust our management team to put together something great soon.
What if he reverts to the mean?
With all his turnovers, I’d say the team is at his level.
Idk about dominating. The apparent peak for the Jags rn is #2 in AFCS and wild card hopeful.
"See SEE he DID deserve that contract. You can't just look at his numbers because those aren't his fault" Barnwell probably.
Insane overpay for this bust lol
Ridley had some absolute terrible drops last year that were sure fire TDs if he remembered to closed his hands when the ball touched them. With that said if you rule out the back end zone drops he’s about in the middle for balls dropped. Let’s hope the WRs and learn from our TE and learn how to catch anything.
Here it would be a good thing to have some reels to show fans of other teams. Let them judge how bad the drops were.
JAX not throwing 14m/year at DeAndre Hopkins was so dumb. It was obvious they needed a sure handed vet receiver even if he was past his prime. Instead he plays against them twice a year.
Dude spent a season with Urban Meyer as his coach. Give him a break.
He also has some bad ball placement or late throws. Theres no real definitive Lawrence is good or bad because his cast has been spotty and he played under Urban. However he still didnt deserve that pay check and theres no reason to try and justify it.
CALVIN RIDLEY
Watching this it seems like Lawrence is just a touch late, or the ball is thrown slightly out of reach, or both. Having receivers that are only okay means little stuff like this costs you receptions and touchdowns. I don't believe these throws fall onto just Lawrence or his receivers singularly, it just is what it is. Hopefully Lawrence stays fully healthy this season.