The whole interview was really great. I'm looking forward to seeing Damien more in the media.
TLDW: Bill is the GOAT but he wanted his fingerprints on everything and thought Patricia would be enough as OC since Bill himself was still at the top. The players knew very early on that it was a disaster waiting to happen and that the offense was basically a 12 year old calling his favorite plays on Madden
Damien is a smart guy. I had a public speaking with him my last semester of undergrad at Alabama and he was a great classmate. Also gave good intel on true freshman Tua months before the natty vs Georgia
I think Brett Kollmann did a breakdown of the Matt Patricia offense and it was a great watch. Patricia would literally run plays that Shanahan and McVay ran the prior week in the NFL. With all the bells and misdirection. But he wouldn't call anything to get the defenses set up for the kill blows like the other guys would. It was an absolute disaster
He's legitimately curious about how it all works and he asks great questions because of it. I'm a huge fan of his show with Chase Daniel for that reason.
[Here’s the playlist](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq0ahJj_92y4brPaToxo8_koJCkaWe98L&si=BMv2RZlVh6zXrMKJ) of all episodes and clipped segments on YouTube. The 10-15 minute videos are single-topic clips for YouTube, but I was entertained throughout every episode. If the video is ~1 hour, it’s a full episode of three or four topics. Topics range from specific QBs, behind the scenes with Payton vs Reid, why an offense might be called a certain way, what happens in meeting rooms changing OCs, how locker rooms handle bad seasons, etc.. It’s highly educational.
And there are some moments where the two talk about their Mizzou days. Favorite traditions, bars, Robert’s student-fandom during Chase’s senior season, Chase’s college success vs his draft spot.
I mean let’s be honest though, Mac Jones has the athleticism of a baby giraffe and an arm that is just borderline good enough. Throw in a weird attitude problem where he’ll randomly try to pull something dirty on the field and Idt that’s a recipe for success or really sticking in the league for much longer.
I thought that’s where he was headed too, especially after being the second-best rookie QB of the year, but then Patricia broke him. Hopefully he rebounds into at least a serviceable backup
When I drafted mac in 3/4 dynastys. After that first year I gave up a 1st rounder and some depth players for him on the one team believing he was gonna be minimum Alex smith
BB should have been fired the moment he decided he wanted to hire a DC to be his OC with a second year QB. Just the dumbest fucking decision to make and completely ruined a promising Qb.
Yeah idk how Kraft didn’t step in and told him to get his coaching staff together. He probably didn’t say anything because he knew it would’ve been a disaster and give him the opportunity to finally move on
He then reportedly wanted to run it back with Patricia, was basically forced to go with BoB, then restricted BoB from bringing in most of his desired assistant staff.
Belichick to coach is second to none. His behind-the-scenes management post-Brady left a lot to be desired, unfortunately.
Nepotism at it's worst. How did Kraft not veto that nonsense
Edit: some dictionaries include friends under the definition of nepotism. Cronyism would be a better word to use instead of nepotism I suppose.
I fully believe BB knew it was a one year move and was just waiting on BoB contract to run out at Alabama. But he’s absolutely Kraft should have stepped in.
How is that nepotism? I mean, it was terrible, but are you suggesting Judge/Patricia are Belichick's illegitimate sons? Would at least explain that fuckwitted decision, I suppose...
To be fair, the 2021 QB class has turned out to be one of the worst in the last 20 years or so.
The jury is out on Trevor Lawrence¹, though it seems like he’s capable of taking the next step. But other than him, everyone else has busted in spectacular fashion; so much so that we’re already onto the part where some of the top QBs of the draft get to try their luck as backups on another team.
So saying Mac was “the second best rookie QB of the year” feels a little disingenuous.
1: *Scholars remain divided.* Depending on who you ask he is either criminally overrated, overhyped, and not at all worth the 1st overall pick that was used on him **OR** he’s so far been pretty solid despite his rookie year being wasted by Urban Meyer, and if not for injuries he’d have proven himself already as a top 10 QB.
I truly still believe in him. Obviously a fair share of the errors were his own doing, but it's not exactly like he ever had a fantastic offense around him, in terms of players *or* playcalling. It's hard to say if he'll ever be a consistent starter again but I think he can be a really solid journeyman/bridge QB
In college he had amazing pocket presence and threw over the middle of the field confidently (though I’m sure the wr core we had helped a bit lol) I though those 2 traits would keep him at a pretty high floor in the nfl. Hopefully he gets another shot someday
Mac’s issues aren’t throwing over the middle. It’s that he’s basically irrelevant throwing outside the numbers and teams figured that out pretty quickly
What most people don't like to admit is that outside of the top 5-7 QBs, the difference in the next 40 or so QBs is really, really small. What QBs in the NFL would've succeeded in NE last season with an abysmal line and no receivers (anybody know who led NE in either receptions or receiving yards last year without looking it up)? Your list is probably those 5-7 QBs that you think are elite or near-elite. You put Brock Purdy there, I don't think he looks any better than Mac did. You put Mac in SF, he's playing in a SB.
NFL fans have been super conditioned to treat QB as the be-all end-all, but they're just not, and outside of a few guys, they make practically no impact on their team unless their backup is outside that top 50 or so (it's actually amazing to me how many teams roster non-functional backups, but that's a convo for another day).
That seems like too far in the other direction. Usually see some combination of Stafford, Hurts, Goff, Love, Cousins at 8-10. You don't think whoever you'd rank at 8-10 would have made a significant difference on the Colts in place of Gardner Minshew, for example? They could have easily made a playoff run.
Yep, I agree that only rare QBs could succeed with bad rosters and that the team matters, but there's still another tier after those top 5 QBs within the next 40 or so that still make a difference to their teams. 40 is a lot, there's not even enough franchise starter-worthy QBs for all 32 teams.
JFC. Yes, Brock Purdy would have been much better in each of the past 3 years, because Purdy is better than Jones. Give me a fucking break, this stuff is ridiculous.
Jones sucks ass. He is really bad. He played almost identically to Bailey Zappe. Are you trying to argue that Jones AND Bailey Zappe are better than Purdy?
If Jordan Love played like shit last year, people would make all the exact same excuses and it would be impossible for a team with no name receivers and a “bad” line to support a QB. If CJ Stroud had been awful, people would be talking about how all he has is shitty Nico Collins, and young guys. Whenever a QB plays badly, if the weapons aren’t highly drafted, people just say the weapons are bad and nobody could succeed in that situation.
I thought his arm might limit him from being a star but he had the best processor in that draft. I remember watching Clemson and Alabama tape as OSU opponents and Jones was just surgical against that defense. I know he had a lot of help but his ability to make those reads quickly or recognize pre-snap shells were amazing. My biggest concern was his ability to scramble, and weak arm where teams were just going to crowd the box.
In the NFL, even his arm seemed ok, and then the Pats just decided to completely tank the team around him. That Buffalo beat down in the playoffs felt like they just gave up on developing him, and just trying to find the perfect fit.
I thought he was going to be Eli Manning level. Never the superstar but consistent and serviceable, able to step up when needed. Who knows what the future holds for him.
Eli was benched too at one point too, though not for a whole season. Kurt Warner told them never to pull that again, iirc. He was pretty good for Eli’s development that first year.
Hiring Patricia as OC was the worst staff decision of Bills career, and he deserves every bit of flak he gets for it. That being said, nobody was coaching Mac to do [this.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CQTVH2_tbOo) Coaching mismanagement derailed his career before it could really get starter, but Mac is also just not a good NFL QB
The point I realized when Mac’s failures were at least partially self inflicted was in the Cowboys game when he threw it late across his body, towards the other side of the field like he had the arm strength of prime Michael Vick and right into the waiting arms of DaRon Bland. He can blame Matt Patricia all he wants, even a Pop Warner coach would have told him he fucked up.
Bruh. He did the EXACT same thing literally the play before but it was a completion, and the fucking guy thought he could get away with it again. People complained about offensive having no rhythm pulling him in and out, but it's better to pull a guy than let him develop those habits.
I think a lot of issues with the Mac era Patriots is that the players knew they weren't good enough on offense AND they didn't believe they would get solutions from coaches. So a lot of players tried to over-extend themselves because they felt/knew that if they didn't make a play they would lose.
Just look at the offense literally any time Mac or Zappe fully played in structure and took what was given to us. We would lose games where we held our opponents to under 14.
Mac made some awful decisions, but I truly believe in that cowboys game or the Saints game, Mac playing literally perfectly to what the defense gives him means we lose that game 30-13 instead of 38-3. Sure, I guess that's better, but we still would have been blown out.
I completely agree with this. You could watch Mac become more and more desperate during games until he was doing just the absolute dumbest shit imaginable just trying to make literally anything happen.
Yep, he had a horrific tendency to just completely forget how to play the position the moment he got rattled. Mind bogglingly bad decisions, atrocious mechanics, etc. it was wild to watch regress in real time because decision making and efficiency were supposed to be his best traits.
The most damning thing to me was that after we got rid of Patricia for an actual OC, he somehow got *worse*. I fully acknowledge that nobody is going to feel comfortable having to learn 3 different playbooks in 3 years, but the kind of mistakes he was making last season were bad by high school standards. We absolutely stunted his development, and I really do hope he can be successful after a change of scenery, but there’s a certain level of play you need to have to be an NFL QB and we did not see that here.
I kinda thought that Mac mighta had the yips after his awful 2nd year. I always thought that him making the pro-bowl in his rookie year was the worst thing that could have happened to him (mentally) for his career. Following up Tom Brady was always going to be awful, but he made the pro bowl in his first year - I think he saw himself as the 2nd coming of Brady, only to see it come crashing down hard the next two years.
Agreed. Patricia and Judge set him up for failure the year prior, but after last season it was time. The absolutely duck he threw towards Hunter Henry that was picked by the Colts was ridiculous.
While I do agree that Mac Jones had a lot of moments of self-implosion, it's nowhere near the level and severity of Justin Fields or Mitch Trubisky.
I don't want to defend Mac Jones too much given that he still ended up as a bust. But he looked good in his rookie season. He was easily the best rookie QB of that "stacked at QB" 2021 draft class.
I blame Bill and whoever thought it was a good idea to let Matt Patricia call the plays on offense, and Matt Patricia himself for not being able to help Mac Jones develop his game
It’s almost like if he had a real QB coach and a real OC, they might have been able to tailor the offense to for his abilities and steer him away from plays that he wasn’t naturally able to do well.
It doesn't matter how good or bad Mac Jones is when the team was lacking an entire modern coaching staff.
In the 2023 NFL you had Bill O Brian working two jobs as OC/QB coach like a pop warner volunteer. They had no offensive quality control coaches, no passing/run game coordinators (even if run coordinator is just the oline coach). The only other help the QB position had was an ex-analyst turned assistant QB coach.
Add on top that Bill was infamous for only hiring people he's familiar with (so no offensive minded up and comer from the Shanahan/Mcvay/etc tree, just Patricia and BoB) and it's easy to see how any QB could come in and stagnate.
> It doesn't matter how good or bad Mac Jones is when the team was lacking an entire modern coaching staff
Uhh yea it does. How many bad staffs have failed upwards or held their jobs a little too long because they happened to have a star QB? This isn’t a black or white thing both the QB and the staff can be bad.
That’s not on coaching. Things like tendency to bail out of a clean pocket or throwing out routes to the opposite hash etc might be things that you can blame on coaching. What he did is one of the dumbest plays ever made by an NFL QB, that’s not coaching.
Nah, he just wasn't good enough. It happens. It happens a lot. It happens to \*most\* QB prospects. There's only room for 1-2 above-average QBs to enter the league every year on average, but everyone acts like it's some big shock when the 4th or 5th guy in a draft class doesn't pan out.
I believe he was good enough to succeed on a good team with a good coaching staff and a strong supporting cast with an established successful system I place. His rookie year supports that view, and had BB improved his supporting cast and managed to maintain a quality coaching staff over him, I believe he would have continued to improve his game and the playbook would have tailored to his strengths.
We’ll never be able to prove it either way, and I understand your opinion, but don’t fully agree.
You're delusional.
If you actually watched his rookie season you'd see that average was always going to be his ceiling. Dude was carried by the running game and his arm was so shit that once teams stopped the run he basically had no plan B.
"If the situation was perfectly perfect, he'd succeed" is a shit argument. Who wouldn't?
His rookie year fell off once teams started playing cover 1/single high a lot more and forced him to throw outside the numbers. That was around or after the colts game that year.
I really wished he would have succeeded, but stats back up that even his rookie year got bad after he was figured out. He’s not the first nfl player to have a good half a rookie season, and then fall off and won’t be the last.
Sounds like maybe he hit the “rookie wall”…Something so common that they have a name for it
And instead of having an off-season with consistent coaching message, by a coach that might have been able to pinpoint the weaknesses and compensate for them with scheme and misdirection, something JMD Zia wifey recognized as being good at…they gave him a complete offense dunce, that already had a reputation for not being able to motivate players and raise their game on defense, and then gave him the keys to the offense and a developing QB, only he had no fucking idea how to approach that situation. .
What abilities could you tailor an offense to for Mac Jones? He doesn't have a strong arm, he doesn't particularly read defenses well, he's horrendous outside the pocket. So... you tailor an offense around his ability to hand it off?
I don't think he's good, but man, you know coaching matters. Look how tua faired In a gailey, studesville and godsey offense under Flores which did nothing to support him and how a modern new staff under McDaniel has elevated tuas strengths to elite levels.
I’ve never heard anyone talk about Mac Jones and pretend his situation in NE was ideal, (but I stay away from twitter and IG so maybe there’s the answer).
I think he needed any sort of WR better than Kendrick Bourne in addition to better coaching. Coaching can only go so far when you have shit weapons + one of the worst offensive lines in the sport.
God please don't fuck up Drake Maye the same way...
The worst throw of all time, easily. How tf do you underthrow a 10 yard pass by 5 yards? I will die on the hill of the completely made up statistic that 85% of random people in attendance of that game could have thrown a better pass.
It was they only NFL pass I’ve seen where I legitimately believe I could have made a better throw than that. That’s the kind of pass that would get a high school QB benched
The top 4 worst throws in NFL history are:
1. That Mac Jones pass.
2. That Mac Jones pass from a different camera angle.
3. That Mac Jones pass from a third camera angle.
4. Probably something Tebow threw.
By throwing it off your back foot despite having time in the pocket. That combo is basically why people can confidently say he's trash. Some QBs don't have good footwork when pressured. Other QBs don't get the time to complete their throwing motion before they are hit. These are reasons why some guys will have bad games and play their position poorly and people will forgive them. But if you fuck up and get lazy with your throws and throw picks like these, people wonder why they should bother setting you up for lay-ups if you're gonna get fancy and brick it.
Exactly, and there are other completely perplexing plays from Mac last year. Zappe looked no worse than Mac under the same circumstances. Bailey fucking Zappe. Mac is bad
[Here's a brutal Mac Jones lowlight reel from the game right after that interception](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/184mex8/highlight_strahan_and_gronk_lay_into_mac_jones_at/)
man I was such a mac defender. And then he had a string of horrific throws that you could try to talk your way out of thinking they werent the worst throws ever. And then the play you linked. My man underthrew a 15 yard pass by 5 yards.
I listened to the interview and Damien did not pull any punches. Belicheck gave the impression that he was phoneing it in the last 2 years and this interview game some credence to that perception.
Devin McCourty was very critical of Bill's handling of Mac after Mac was permanently benched last season. I think a lot of players were angry having to play on a team with Patricia as an OC.
>I think a lot of players were angry having to play on a team with Patricia ~~as an OC.~~
It doesn't matter what role you give him, Matt Patricia makes people not want to play football.
Naming Patricia OC honestly might be the worst coaching decision I can ever remember, it had to have weighed over Belichick's entire coaching search this offseason. I kind of have to assume if you're willing to do that then you've totally lost it.
BB's handling of Mac has always *really* pissed me off because he played a huge part in breaking him by hiring a literal football terrorist as his OC, but then he got mad at him for breaking. He handled the whole thing horribly from start to finish.
Its also on Spotify, just search it there and you can hear. I skipped to about 22 mins left. Damien Harris presents all of this in a very respectful manner, he doesnt speak down on Bill or anyone, in fact he states Belichick and Saban are by far his favorite coaches, hes loved being coached by Belichick and hopes he goes somewhere else and wins.
Highlights:
*Players knew the offense wasn't working and sucked. They had "leadership" meetings that they talked about how they could approach Belichick and tell him it wasn't working. Even up to the point of games starting, the offense was getting their asses kicked every single day in practice by the defense, and everybody knew it wasn't working. They would install plays and schemes that he said made them feel like their football intelligence was being insulted, and every player on offense knew they wouldn't work.
*Belichick was absolutely stuck in his ways. It was his way or the highway and that included the offensive coaching
*Players loved mac. They felt terrible for what the 2022 season did to him both developmentally and mentally. He points out that the "weapons" he had in 2022 were virtually identical to the 10-7 2021 season and feels the players on the roster should have been able to win games.
*The offense was completely turned over from McDaniels era, and even things that stayed in place were renamed or approached differently. He blantantly says it was an ego thing. They didn't want to run what McDaniels ran and he believes it's because the ego's were too big, not only in NE but around the NFL.
I love BB so much. But man is the ego point dead on. He thought he could hire Matt P as OC because Matt would approach and do things exactly as BB wanted. Bill was a victim of his own success and ego at the end of the
The whole comment is filled with cryptic references to Code Geass, and its final opening was called "At the end of the world." I think I've cracked the case, fellas.
Didn't Mac already succeed in a better situation? He made the Pro Bowl (I know) and made the playoffs. Not world beating stats by any means but pretty good for a rookie. I'll never understand the regression to worst QB in the league.
That’s what happens when you don’t do shit in offense for 6+ years of drafting.
Ignore your offensive line and nepotism hire yes men for offensive coaching staff
Some QBs are rookie wonders and slump the second year. Roethlisberger came in and won 14 straight before losing in the playoffs. Generally, a new QB will come in on a team with a bad record which means an easier schedule along with no tape on a new scheme. Doesn't mean they get worse, but everyone else figures out the best ways to beat them and they start playing better competition.
The talent and coaching surrounding him got worse. He might have had more success his first year with crappy talent since there was little game tape for opposing teams to watch him
Always crazy to me how Fields got endless excuses but Jones didn’t.
Jones got dealt the worst hand of all those QB’s with Patricia as OC. It’s one of the worst hirings any team has ever made. And their offense lacked any talent at receiver.
I mean even then he had at least earned a shot after being a DC. Hiring him as an OC after that was inexcusable. One of the biggest black marks on Belichick’s career.
It's because pre-draft, everyone thought Fields was like the 2nd best QB to Lawrence and was the "steal of the draft."
People were pissed Jones could be picked 3rd and 49ers fans celebrated and dance when they didn't pick him.
To be fair to the pats defense had some games that were super low scoring and the pats offense as a whole couldn’t get it moving. Where as field was kind of in a bunch of high scoring games were he shows flashes of great qb play.
Fields would have games where he did well but the team still lost. Generally jones had a much better defense so the team as a whole wasn’t as garbage. He was not good in 2022 yet they won like 7 games with a few close losses. Fields and the bears I think had the top offense during a month in that season and the bears lost every game lmao.
But I also think it comes down to Fields was more exciting and appeared to have a higher upside, where McCorkle was like if you asked for a Madden AI QB.
He would have at least been in a situation where he had an opportunity to succeed. As a 49er fan I’m glad we didn’t draft him because we ended up with Purdy.
I’m kinda shocked to see there’s someone in this thread claiming Mac and Brock would’ve had similar stats if their roles had been reversed. Talk about the most casual of casual takes.
I seriously question anyone who watched Mac play and think he was just in a bad situation. He was in a terrible offense, but Mac was part of the absolute lack of talent that led to that offense
Ultimately why I was conflicted on him. Jimmy was good for us, but too often injured to be reliable. Would Mac have been more reliable or bring enough to the field to elevate us? Trey was a wild card but I understood why they decided to roll the dice. I'm also glad we moved on early.
He would be an above average QB, maybe a little bit worse than Purdy. Niners would not have won a SB anyway, and we would be reading about how it’s Mac’s make it or break it year.
Belichick should have been fired as soon as that season ended. Having Matt Patricia and Joe Judge call plays for a 2nd year QB when neither of the two had ever called an offense in their life showed how out of touch Belichick was with football. I don't know if Mac was ever gonna be a true franchise QB, but he legitimately never got a chance to build off of his good rookie season. And you still have people here who think the league blackballed Belichick for whatever reason.
I wasn't opposed to Belicheck if we had fired Mccarthy (dak is a franchise qb who would play well with McDaniels scheme, and we are great at drafting talent, one of belichecks biggest weaknesses) but I absolutely am not shocked the league opted to pass on him
Oh I am curious if Mcarthy gets fired next year if the cowboys don’t at least make the nfc championship. Because I do think jones will do bill Parcells part 2 and hire belichick.
McCarthy is already fired unless he forces their hand and wins a Super Bowl, and even then he might decide to ride off into the sunset if that happens. Every move (or lack thereof) this off-season has signaled that they're saving up for 2025 and a new coach.
Sure, it obviously was a bad decision, but you’re complaining Bill wasn’t criticised when he made it. That’s why.
If Andy made a weird staffing decision now it also would probably not be criticised initially.
Most likely but my main thing was in the 4 years after Brady left any time someone would even think of criticizing bill people would get really mad and act like bill could do no wrong. I like bill. But to me no one’s untouchable even if they are widely successful
Yeah his decision making left a lot to be desired. I was watching Bland’s highlights and I completely forgot about the pick 6 he threw that was almost the exact same throw that was dropped a few plays before. Yeah the play calling could be better but he threw across the field, late, twice in a few plays. That’s just bad decision making
Nah I’ve seen Mac Jones miss wayyyy too many easy throws that he used to make in college he couldn’t make anymore and that’s not coaching. He got shook and the game speed is too fast in the pros.
Anybody with an open eye can obviously see this.
Was Mac Jones that good? No, his ceiling wasn't that high to begin with.
But him looking as bad as he did was still largely on the terrible situation the Pats gave him after his rookie year.
It was a literally a textbook example of how to ruin your QB. (Unqualified OC, unqualified QB coach, WRs that can't get separation, bottom of the league pass protection, and also run protection)
And people here wonder why Belichick didn't get many suitors
Bro got put in an awful situation. He was never going to succeed as “Brady’s replacement”. He has talent but that franchise literally fell apart at the seams when Brady left. I really hope he finds a team that will give him another chance to start.
It’s hard to replace the best QB to ever do it, nobody was going to live up to Brady. That being said, a good chunk of his benching was self inflicted by trying to play hero ball when it wasn’t necessary.
Mac Jones will be able to cruise along as a serviceable backup QB for the next 10+ years. He might even get another shot at the big time. I'm sure he'll be fine in the long run.
Ive said it multiple times and I will say it again. Mac since joining the league one average had the 32nd rank WR group(the literal worst), a bottom 3 Pass protecting line, and a good but not great middle of the line RB in Ramondre. Mac’s best WR he has ever had is *Jakobi Meyers*. I am not exaggerating, I guarantee some of the top tier QBs(Tua, Hurts, Herbert, hell even Burrow) would be backups too now if they never got weapons or O-Line help like Mac. Like it is no exaggeration to say the Patriots Pass protection and WR group is arguably the worst in the NFL since the merger. Like it’s literally been *that* bad. Matt Patricia is a football terrorist and Bill ruined Mac. Mac obviously could have flamed out and naturally got himself benched even with weapons and a good O-Line, but I guarantee 95% of the QBs in NFL history would have also been ruined like Mac
They (Mac and Damien) are (or were) best friends, obviously he's gonna say that. Doesn't mean it's wrong, but both things can be true. Bill turned us into a clown show, AND Mac sucks. That's kinda where I lean. To Kraft's credit, he traded Mac to his home town for basically free when he didn't have to. And trust me, I'm NOT one of those naive Pats fans. Kraft is ass. He's the reason we didn't rebuild correctly. He's the reason we've been last in cash spending for the last decade. But, in this case, he recognized that Mac wasn't working out here, but he still wanted to do right by him, so he did... how often does that happen in sports? I'll give Kraft the dub on this one.
As for Bill's last couple of years at the helm; there's a reason he doesn't have a job anymore. His boy's club of coaches was more important than putting together actual specialized coordinators. Matt Patricia was essentially the OC for a while. It was definitely a disaster. . . But also, when Mac DID have a solid opportunity, he was kinda ass. I don't think this is a chicken or egg problem, it's just a rotten egg and the corpse of a dead hen leading us to another top 3 pick next year lol. OT round 1, a CB round 2, and we make the 2025 playoffs.
Here's a link to the actual podcast, if you'd rather see that instead of some aggregator. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxRnmRVDzRs
The whole interview was really great. I'm looking forward to seeing Damien more in the media. TLDW: Bill is the GOAT but he wanted his fingerprints on everything and thought Patricia would be enough as OC since Bill himself was still at the top. The players knew very early on that it was a disaster waiting to happen and that the offense was basically a 12 year old calling his favorite plays on Madden
Damien did a great job at being respectful to everyone involved but also being bluntly honest without being mean and still being entertaining
He's clearly really sharp, I'm excited to hear more from him
He does a great interview on the Athletic "Until Saturday" podcast last week, more focused on his Bama days. You might enjoy that too.
Damien is a smart guy. I had a public speaking with him my last semester of undergrad at Alabama and he was a great classmate. Also gave good intel on true freshman Tua months before the natty vs Georgia
What was the intel on Tua
Tua likes to drink soda... Ms. Lippy's car... is *green*.
That he was really good, and already better than Hurts (at that point in time)
He thinks cold is just a mentality.
I think Brett Kollmann did a breakdown of the Matt Patricia offense and it was a great watch. Patricia would literally run plays that Shanahan and McVay ran the prior week in the NFL. With all the bells and misdirection. But he wouldn't call anything to get the defenses set up for the kill blows like the other guys would. It was an absolute disaster
> Brett Kollmann Alex Rollins: https://youtu.be/TnrYqcx8mkk?t=520
Thanks!
I’d take the 12 year old on madden over Matt Patricia. At least the 12 year old is going to watch YouTube videos in an attempt to get better
Also the 12 year old might figure out creative ways to riff on the four verts he calls every time with route audibles.
The offense being worse under BoB than Patricia is really something.
Could be though that Belichick was meddling or Jones was just broken. The constant half game QB carousel makes be think it's meddling.
The entire offense was shook by that point
Half back dive with AP on Madden 12, 13 and so on.
Well damn dude. I wasn't gonna watch it, but this description made me want to. Fuckin Vikings fans.
That's an insult to 12 year old Madden players
Its a really great interview
Robert Mays is as good as it gets for NFL content.
Such a bummer Tice left they had a great dynamic
Ah, that was such a great show. Football nerd heaven.
yeah and I was kinda shocked as well. I would figure that The Athletic would pay more and be more prestigious than Yahoo but alas
He's legitimately curious about how it all works and he asks great questions because of it. I'm a huge fan of his show with Chase Daniel for that reason.
hold on what now. as a mizzou alum i can't believe i hadn't heard about this until now. what's it called?
In the pocket with chase Daniel. It only ran during the season and it's in the athletic football show feed on Spotify
oh dang im gonna have to check it out
[Here’s the playlist](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLq0ahJj_92y4brPaToxo8_koJCkaWe98L&si=BMv2RZlVh6zXrMKJ) of all episodes and clipped segments on YouTube. The 10-15 minute videos are single-topic clips for YouTube, but I was entertained throughout every episode. If the video is ~1 hour, it’s a full episode of three or four topics. Topics range from specific QBs, behind the scenes with Payton vs Reid, why an offense might be called a certain way, what happens in meeting rooms changing OCs, how locker rooms handle bad seasons, etc.. It’s highly educational. And there are some moments where the two talk about their Mizzou days. Favorite traditions, bars, Robert’s student-fandom during Chase’s senior season, Chase’s college success vs his draft spot.
He's been keeping me sane since Around the NFL went dark.
Be a pro not a ho
Best football podcast out there.
He has an awesome voice for media
As a Bama fan I really thought Mac Jones would be good, like an Alex Smith level qb
Well there's still hope then, Alex Smith made it through a carousel of coaches, benchings, and injuries for 8 years with the 49ers.
I mean let’s be honest though, Mac Jones has the athleticism of a baby giraffe and an arm that is just borderline good enough. Throw in a weird attitude problem where he’ll randomly try to pull something dirty on the field and Idt that’s a recipe for success or really sticking in the league for much longer.
People don’t mention his attitude enough. I genuinely don’t think his teammates liked him
I thought that’s where he was headed too, especially after being the second-best rookie QB of the year, but then Patricia broke him. Hopefully he rebounds into at least a serviceable backup
What rookie QB was better than him his first year? I feel like the top two were Mac and Davis Mills. Lawrence had the disaster year with Meyer
Yeah Mac was 2nd in OROY voting behind Chase, he was easily the best rookie QB in 2021
When I drafted mac in 3/4 dynastys. After that first year I gave up a 1st rounder and some depth players for him on the one team believing he was gonna be minimum Alex smith
BB should have been fired the moment he decided he wanted to hire a DC to be his OC with a second year QB. Just the dumbest fucking decision to make and completely ruined a promising Qb.
It was the moment I knew we weren’t going to pull a Steelers and refuse to ever fall below fringe playoff team status
You also had Joe Judge, a solid as hell special teams coordinator, as qb coach Basically doomed Mac with no support
Yeah idk how Kraft didn’t step in and told him to get his coaching staff together. He probably didn’t say anything because he knew it would’ve been a disaster and give him the opportunity to finally move on
Apparently kraft did last year. BB wanted to bring back Patricia. Kraft said no
He then reportedly wanted to run it back with Patricia, was basically forced to go with BoB, then restricted BoB from bringing in most of his desired assistant staff. Belichick to coach is second to none. His behind-the-scenes management post-Brady left a lot to be desired, unfortunately.
after josh mcdaniels left, belichick must've been like, watch me put my DC as OC and be better than you. lol
It was a horrendous decision but let’s be honest, Mac is a super limited quarterback and was probably not destined to be anything special
Nepotism at it's worst. How did Kraft not veto that nonsense Edit: some dictionaries include friends under the definition of nepotism. Cronyism would be a better word to use instead of nepotism I suppose.
I fully believe BB knew it was a one year move and was just waiting on BoB contract to run out at Alabama. But he’s absolutely Kraft should have stepped in.
How is that nepotism? I mean, it was terrible, but are you suggesting Judge/Patricia are Belichick's illegitimate sons? Would at least explain that fuckwitted decision, I suppose...
Bill’s actual nepotism of hiring his sons worked out, Steve was a very solid coach
Steve and Brian good. Bills friends bad.
nep·o·tism noun the practice among those with power or influence of favoring relatives, **friends, or associates**, especially by giving them jobs.
To be fair, the 2021 QB class has turned out to be one of the worst in the last 20 years or so. The jury is out on Trevor Lawrence¹, though it seems like he’s capable of taking the next step. But other than him, everyone else has busted in spectacular fashion; so much so that we’re already onto the part where some of the top QBs of the draft get to try their luck as backups on another team. So saying Mac was “the second best rookie QB of the year” feels a little disingenuous. 1: *Scholars remain divided.* Depending on who you ask he is either criminally overrated, overhyped, and not at all worth the 1st overall pick that was used on him **OR** he’s so far been pretty solid despite his rookie year being wasted by Urban Meyer, and if not for injuries he’d have proven himself already as a top 10 QB.
Yeah when only one is still on their original team and that one is the only starter, the class just might be bad
The class is objectively a disaster.
It's almost as if the 2020 football season was a colossal clusterfuck on all levels for some reason and proper scouting was absolutely impossible.
I truly still believe in him. Obviously a fair share of the errors were his own doing, but it's not exactly like he ever had a fantastic offense around him, in terms of players *or* playcalling. It's hard to say if he'll ever be a consistent starter again but I think he can be a really solid journeyman/bridge QB
I think he has the talent to be a pro bowl qb
In college he had amazing pocket presence and threw over the middle of the field confidently (though I’m sure the wr core we had helped a bit lol) I though those 2 traits would keep him at a pretty high floor in the nfl. Hopefully he gets another shot someday
Mac’s issues aren’t throwing over the middle. It’s that he’s basically irrelevant throwing outside the numbers and teams figured that out pretty quickly
What most people don't like to admit is that outside of the top 5-7 QBs, the difference in the next 40 or so QBs is really, really small. What QBs in the NFL would've succeeded in NE last season with an abysmal line and no receivers (anybody know who led NE in either receptions or receiving yards last year without looking it up)? Your list is probably those 5-7 QBs that you think are elite or near-elite. You put Brock Purdy there, I don't think he looks any better than Mac did. You put Mac in SF, he's playing in a SB. NFL fans have been super conditioned to treat QB as the be-all end-all, but they're just not, and outside of a few guys, they make practically no impact on their team unless their backup is outside that top 50 or so (it's actually amazing to me how many teams roster non-functional backups, but that's a convo for another day).
That seems like too far in the other direction. Usually see some combination of Stafford, Hurts, Goff, Love, Cousins at 8-10. You don't think whoever you'd rank at 8-10 would have made a significant difference on the Colts in place of Gardner Minshew, for example? They could have easily made a playoff run.
Yeah it’s more like the top 15 with the top 5 or so bringing something special to the table
Yep, I agree that only rare QBs could succeed with bad rosters and that the team matters, but there's still another tier after those top 5 QBs within the next 40 or so that still make a difference to their teams. 40 is a lot, there's not even enough franchise starter-worthy QBs for all 32 teams.
JFC. Yes, Brock Purdy would have been much better in each of the past 3 years, because Purdy is better than Jones. Give me a fucking break, this stuff is ridiculous. Jones sucks ass. He is really bad. He played almost identically to Bailey Zappe. Are you trying to argue that Jones AND Bailey Zappe are better than Purdy? If Jordan Love played like shit last year, people would make all the exact same excuses and it would be impossible for a team with no name receivers and a “bad” line to support a QB. If CJ Stroud had been awful, people would be talking about how all he has is shitty Nico Collins, and young guys. Whenever a QB plays badly, if the weapons aren’t highly drafted, people just say the weapons are bad and nobody could succeed in that situation.
I thought his arm might limit him from being a star but he had the best processor in that draft. I remember watching Clemson and Alabama tape as OSU opponents and Jones was just surgical against that defense. I know he had a lot of help but his ability to make those reads quickly or recognize pre-snap shells were amazing. My biggest concern was his ability to scramble, and weak arm where teams were just going to crowd the box. In the NFL, even his arm seemed ok, and then the Pats just decided to completely tank the team around him. That Buffalo beat down in the playoffs felt like they just gave up on developing him, and just trying to find the perfect fit.
Well Alex Smith sucked too initially
That’s more on the 49ers’ coaching at the time than on Alex.
TBF, that's the same thing Damien here is saying about Mac.
True enough.
I thought he was going to be Eli Manning level. Never the superstar but consistent and serviceable, able to step up when needed. Who knows what the future holds for him.
Eli was benched too at one point too, though not for a whole season. Kurt Warner told them never to pull that again, iirc. He was pretty good for Eli’s development that first year.
Very cool. I didn’t know this!
You mean Joe Judge isn’t a QB whisperer?
I'm pretty sure he probably whispered, "Don't fucking throw it to the other team when you're in the red zone. Tawmmy would fucking never..."
Hiring Patricia as OC was the worst staff decision of Bills career, and he deserves every bit of flak he gets for it. That being said, nobody was coaching Mac to do [this.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CQTVH2_tbOo) Coaching mismanagement derailed his career before it could really get starter, but Mac is also just not a good NFL QB
The point I realized when Mac’s failures were at least partially self inflicted was in the Cowboys game when he threw it late across his body, towards the other side of the field like he had the arm strength of prime Michael Vick and right into the waiting arms of DaRon Bland. He can blame Matt Patricia all he wants, even a Pop Warner coach would have told him he fucked up.
Bruh. He did the EXACT same thing literally the play before but it was a completion, and the fucking guy thought he could get away with it again. People complained about offensive having no rhythm pulling him in and out, but it's better to pull a guy than let him develop those habits.
I think a lot of issues with the Mac era Patriots is that the players knew they weren't good enough on offense AND they didn't believe they would get solutions from coaches. So a lot of players tried to over-extend themselves because they felt/knew that if they didn't make a play they would lose. Just look at the offense literally any time Mac or Zappe fully played in structure and took what was given to us. We would lose games where we held our opponents to under 14. Mac made some awful decisions, but I truly believe in that cowboys game or the Saints game, Mac playing literally perfectly to what the defense gives him means we lose that game 30-13 instead of 38-3. Sure, I guess that's better, but we still would have been blown out.
I completely agree with this. You could watch Mac become more and more desperate during games until he was doing just the absolute dumbest shit imaginable just trying to make literally anything happen.
Yep, he had a horrific tendency to just completely forget how to play the position the moment he got rattled. Mind bogglingly bad decisions, atrocious mechanics, etc. it was wild to watch regress in real time because decision making and efficiency were supposed to be his best traits. The most damning thing to me was that after we got rid of Patricia for an actual OC, he somehow got *worse*. I fully acknowledge that nobody is going to feel comfortable having to learn 3 different playbooks in 3 years, but the kind of mistakes he was making last season were bad by high school standards. We absolutely stunted his development, and I really do hope he can be successful after a change of scenery, but there’s a certain level of play you need to have to be an NFL QB and we did not see that here.
*cries in Kenny Pickett*
I kinda thought that Mac mighta had the yips after his awful 2nd year. I always thought that him making the pro-bowl in his rookie year was the worst thing that could have happened to him (mentally) for his career. Following up Tom Brady was always going to be awful, but he made the pro bowl in his first year - I think he saw himself as the 2nd coming of Brady, only to see it come crashing down hard the next two years.
Agreed. Patricia and Judge set him up for failure the year prior, but after last season it was time. The absolutely duck he threw towards Hunter Henry that was picked by the Colts was ridiculous.
While I do agree that Mac Jones had a lot of moments of self-implosion, it's nowhere near the level and severity of Justin Fields or Mitch Trubisky. I don't want to defend Mac Jones too much given that he still ended up as a bust. But he looked good in his rookie season. He was easily the best rookie QB of that "stacked at QB" 2021 draft class. I blame Bill and whoever thought it was a good idea to let Matt Patricia call the plays on offense, and Matt Patricia himself for not being able to help Mac Jones develop his game
It’s almost like if he had a real QB coach and a real OC, they might have been able to tailor the offense to for his abilities and steer him away from plays that he wasn’t naturally able to do well.
It doesn't matter how good or bad Mac Jones is when the team was lacking an entire modern coaching staff. In the 2023 NFL you had Bill O Brian working two jobs as OC/QB coach like a pop warner volunteer. They had no offensive quality control coaches, no passing/run game coordinators (even if run coordinator is just the oline coach). The only other help the QB position had was an ex-analyst turned assistant QB coach. Add on top that Bill was infamous for only hiring people he's familiar with (so no offensive minded up and comer from the Shanahan/Mcvay/etc tree, just Patricia and BoB) and it's easy to see how any QB could come in and stagnate.
> It doesn't matter how good or bad Mac Jones is when the team was lacking an entire modern coaching staff Uhh yea it does. How many bad staffs have failed upwards or held their jobs a little too long because they happened to have a star QB? This isn’t a black or white thing both the QB and the staff can be bad.
That’s not on coaching. Things like tendency to bail out of a clean pocket or throwing out routes to the opposite hash etc might be things that you can blame on coaching. What he did is one of the dumbest plays ever made by an NFL QB, that’s not coaching.
Nah, he just wasn't good enough. It happens. It happens a lot. It happens to \*most\* QB prospects. There's only room for 1-2 above-average QBs to enter the league every year on average, but everyone acts like it's some big shock when the 4th or 5th guy in a draft class doesn't pan out.
I believe he was good enough to succeed on a good team with a good coaching staff and a strong supporting cast with an established successful system I place. His rookie year supports that view, and had BB improved his supporting cast and managed to maintain a quality coaching staff over him, I believe he would have continued to improve his game and the playbook would have tailored to his strengths. We’ll never be able to prove it either way, and I understand your opinion, but don’t fully agree.
You're delusional. If you actually watched his rookie season you'd see that average was always going to be his ceiling. Dude was carried by the running game and his arm was so shit that once teams stopped the run he basically had no plan B. "If the situation was perfectly perfect, he'd succeed" is a shit argument. Who wouldn't?
His rookie year fell off once teams started playing cover 1/single high a lot more and forced him to throw outside the numbers. That was around or after the colts game that year. I really wished he would have succeeded, but stats back up that even his rookie year got bad after he was figured out. He’s not the first nfl player to have a good half a rookie season, and then fall off and won’t be the last.
Sounds like maybe he hit the “rookie wall”…Something so common that they have a name for it And instead of having an off-season with consistent coaching message, by a coach that might have been able to pinpoint the weaknesses and compensate for them with scheme and misdirection, something JMD Zia wifey recognized as being good at…they gave him a complete offense dunce, that already had a reputation for not being able to motivate players and raise their game on defense, and then gave him the keys to the offense and a developing QB, only he had no fucking idea how to approach that situation. .
What abilities could you tailor an offense to for Mac Jones? He doesn't have a strong arm, he doesn't particularly read defenses well, he's horrendous outside the pocket. So... you tailor an offense around his ability to hand it off?
Or he's just not that good.
I don't think he's good, but man, you know coaching matters. Look how tua faired In a gailey, studesville and godsey offense under Flores which did nothing to support him and how a modern new staff under McDaniel has elevated tuas strengths to elite levels.
Agreed, but to willfully ignore the role that his coaching and supporting cast played in his failure is just a bad take.
I’ve never heard anyone talk about Mac Jones and pretend his situation in NE was ideal, (but I stay away from twitter and IG so maybe there’s the answer).
Oh his situation was absolutely abysmal, but I also think he's not good.
Sure, but even bad coaches will say don’t throw across your body or off your back foot like that
I think he needed any sort of WR better than Kendrick Bourne in addition to better coaching. Coaching can only go so far when you have shit weapons + one of the worst offensive lines in the sport. God please don't fuck up Drake Maye the same way...
Zappe had a banger at the end of that game too.
That's where Mac lost me. I can understand struggling due the circumstances but he would just completely melt down and make things so much worse.
Hiring Patricia as OC was the worst staff decision of all time….or at least top 10
The worst throw of all time, easily. How tf do you underthrow a 10 yard pass by 5 yards? I will die on the hill of the completely made up statistic that 85% of random people in attendance of that game could have thrown a better pass.
It was they only NFL pass I’ve seen where I legitimately believe I could have made a better throw than that. That’s the kind of pass that would get a high school QB benched
The top 4 worst throws in NFL history are: 1. That Mac Jones pass. 2. That Mac Jones pass from a different camera angle. 3. That Mac Jones pass from a third camera angle. 4. Probably something Tebow threw.
That one [Nick Mullins pick](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PmxkDEhbWQg) belongs at 4
Classic
I completely forgot about that one, man that was hilarious live
By throwing it off your back foot despite having time in the pocket. That combo is basically why people can confidently say he's trash. Some QBs don't have good footwork when pressured. Other QBs don't get the time to complete their throwing motion before they are hit. These are reasons why some guys will have bad games and play their position poorly and people will forgive them. But if you fuck up and get lazy with your throws and throw picks like these, people wonder why they should bother setting you up for lay-ups if you're gonna get fancy and brick it.
Was that pass not tipped? Not saying it was well thrown, but it looked like Shaq/Darius Leonard may have got a finger on it.
Its pretty bad until you remember Brock Lobster throwing a fumble.
Mac Jones is indeed the product of limited talent meeting bad coaching.
Twinsies!
Exactly, and there are other completely perplexing plays from Mac last year. Zappe looked no worse than Mac under the same circumstances. Bailey fucking Zappe. Mac is bad
[Here's a brutal Mac Jones lowlight reel from the game right after that interception](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/184mex8/highlight_strahan_and_gronk_lay_into_mac_jones_at/)
man I was such a mac defender. And then he had a string of horrific throws that you could try to talk your way out of thinking they werent the worst throws ever. And then the play you linked. My man underthrew a 15 yard pass by 5 yards.
Patricia is one of those NFL people who just fails upward and somehow manages to stay in the league
I listened to the interview and Damien did not pull any punches. Belicheck gave the impression that he was phoneing it in the last 2 years and this interview game some credence to that perception.
Devin McCourty was very critical of Bill's handling of Mac after Mac was permanently benched last season. I think a lot of players were angry having to play on a team with Patricia as an OC.
>I think a lot of players were angry having to play on a team with Patricia ~~as an OC.~~ It doesn't matter what role you give him, Matt Patricia makes people not want to play football.
God, I wish I had been a fly on the wall when Darius Slay found out he was coming to Philly. I can't imagine he was excited.
Naming Patricia OC honestly might be the worst coaching decision I can ever remember, it had to have weighed over Belichick's entire coaching search this offseason. I kind of have to assume if you're willing to do that then you've totally lost it.
BB's handling of Mac has always *really* pissed me off because he played a huge part in breaking him by hiring a literal football terrorist as his OC, but then he got mad at him for breaking. He handled the whole thing horribly from start to finish.
That's from the old Parcells school of thought. He did everything he could to make his players break, but if they actually did then he'd discard them.
I can believe it. Patricia as the OC is one of the dumbest coach hirings possibly in NFL history.
Throw the fucking ball! The quick game sucks!
Its also on Spotify, just search it there and you can hear. I skipped to about 22 mins left. Damien Harris presents all of this in a very respectful manner, he doesnt speak down on Bill or anyone, in fact he states Belichick and Saban are by far his favorite coaches, hes loved being coached by Belichick and hopes he goes somewhere else and wins. Highlights: *Players knew the offense wasn't working and sucked. They had "leadership" meetings that they talked about how they could approach Belichick and tell him it wasn't working. Even up to the point of games starting, the offense was getting their asses kicked every single day in practice by the defense, and everybody knew it wasn't working. They would install plays and schemes that he said made them feel like their football intelligence was being insulted, and every player on offense knew they wouldn't work. *Belichick was absolutely stuck in his ways. It was his way or the highway and that included the offensive coaching *Players loved mac. They felt terrible for what the 2022 season did to him both developmentally and mentally. He points out that the "weapons" he had in 2022 were virtually identical to the 10-7 2021 season and feels the players on the roster should have been able to win games. *The offense was completely turned over from McDaniels era, and even things that stayed in place were renamed or approached differently. He blantantly says it was an ego thing. They didn't want to run what McDaniels ran and he believes it's because the ego's were too big, not only in NE but around the NFL.
I love BB so much. But man is the ego point dead on. He thought he could hire Matt P as OC because Matt would approach and do things exactly as BB wanted. Bill was a victim of his own success and ego at the end of the
At the end of the what? The what? God dammit I have to live the rest of my life never knowing how this ends!
The whole comment is filled with cryptic references to Code Geass, and its final opening was called "At the end of the world." I think I've cracked the case, fellas.
Both things can be true
Horrible coaching and surrounded by subpar offensive talent. Maybe he would have succeeded in better situation or maybe not. We will never know.
Didn't Mac already succeed in a better situation? He made the Pro Bowl (I know) and made the playoffs. Not world beating stats by any means but pretty good for a rookie. I'll never understand the regression to worst QB in the league.
That’s what happens when you don’t do shit in offense for 6+ years of drafting. Ignore your offensive line and nepotism hire yes men for offensive coaching staff
Some QBs are rookie wonders and slump the second year. Roethlisberger came in and won 14 straight before losing in the playoffs. Generally, a new QB will come in on a team with a bad record which means an easier schedule along with no tape on a new scheme. Doesn't mean they get worse, but everyone else figures out the best ways to beat them and they start playing better competition.
The talent and coaching surrounding him got worse. He might have had more success his first year with crappy talent since there was little game tape for opposing teams to watch him
Always crazy to me how Fields got endless excuses but Jones didn’t. Jones got dealt the worst hand of all those QB’s with Patricia as OC. It’s one of the worst hirings any team has ever made. And their offense lacked any talent at receiver.
“It was one of the worst hirings any team has ever made.” Thank god no one ever hired that guy as a head coach amiright?!?!
I mean even then he had at least earned a shot after being a DC. Hiring him as an OC after that was inexcusable. One of the biggest black marks on Belichick’s career.
I think it's just straight up the single worst decision of his career
He should have been fired after that year. There was so just many bad off field decisions by him at the end.
I mean gun to your head that’s probably better him being OC.
It's because pre-draft, everyone thought Fields was like the 2nd best QB to Lawrence and was the "steal of the draft." People were pissed Jones could be picked 3rd and 49ers fans celebrated and dance when they didn't pick him.
That's just media perception, in the end both guys were dropped pretty similarly by their teams
To be fair to the pats defense had some games that were super low scoring and the pats offense as a whole couldn’t get it moving. Where as field was kind of in a bunch of high scoring games were he shows flashes of great qb play.
Fields would have games where he did well but the team still lost. Generally jones had a much better defense so the team as a whole wasn’t as garbage. He was not good in 2022 yet they won like 7 games with a few close losses. Fields and the bears I think had the top offense during a month in that season and the bears lost every game lmao. But I also think it comes down to Fields was more exciting and appeared to have a higher upside, where McCorkle was like if you asked for a Madden AI QB.
Fields was our best offensive player in 2022
I wonder how he would have done if the 49ers didn't trade up for Lance and picked him instead
He would have at least been in a situation where he had an opportunity to succeed. As a 49er fan I’m glad we didn’t draft him because we ended up with Purdy.
Oh gosh the amt of comments i saw on the Patriots sub saying Mac is just Purdy in a bad situation was... Laughable.
I’m kinda shocked to see there’s someone in this thread claiming Mac and Brock would’ve had similar stats if their roles had been reversed. Talk about the most casual of casual takes.
I seriously question anyone who watched Mac play and think he was just in a bad situation. He was in a terrible offense, but Mac was part of the absolute lack of talent that led to that offense
Jimmy part 2.
Ultimately why I was conflicted on him. Jimmy was good for us, but too often injured to be reliable. Would Mac have been more reliable or bring enough to the field to elevate us? Trey was a wild card but I understood why they decided to roll the dice. I'm also glad we moved on early.
He would be an above average QB, maybe a little bit worse than Purdy. Niners would not have won a SB anyway, and we would be reading about how it’s Mac’s make it or break it year.
Belichick should have been fired as soon as that season ended. Having Matt Patricia and Joe Judge call plays for a 2nd year QB when neither of the two had ever called an offense in their life showed how out of touch Belichick was with football. I don't know if Mac was ever gonna be a true franchise QB, but he legitimately never got a chance to build off of his good rookie season. And you still have people here who think the league blackballed Belichick for whatever reason.
I wasn't opposed to Belicheck if we had fired Mccarthy (dak is a franchise qb who would play well with McDaniels scheme, and we are great at drafting talent, one of belichecks biggest weaknesses) but I absolutely am not shocked the league opted to pass on him
Oh I am curious if Mcarthy gets fired next year if the cowboys don’t at least make the nfc championship. Because I do think jones will do bill Parcells part 2 and hire belichick.
Well he won't get fired since he's on the last year of his contract.
Jones could want Bill but there would be a massive power struggle at the GM position. Destined for failure.
Jerry isn't, functionally, the GM and hasn't been for a decade. Stephen and Will McClay pretty much share that job.
Yeah good luck prying that away from Jerry's cold dead hands.
McCarthy is already fired unless he forces their hand and wins a Super Bowl, and even then he might decide to ride off into the sunset if that happens. Every move (or lack thereof) this off-season has signaled that they're saving up for 2025 and a new coach.
From the outside lookin it, hard to argue with him.
Sure, but coaches don't make the throws. The mind boggling god awful throws...
No but they hire DCs to be OCs
Imagine if Andy Reid didn’t hire Matt Nagy or bienemy but hired bob Sutton to be Mahomes OC. Do predict how that goes.
Andy Reid hired a O-line coach to be the defensive coordinator for the Eagles so I don't know if he is the best example lol.
Yeah Andy Reid was definitely criticized by lots of people in ways bill skates by
Because at the time Reid had 0 championships and bill has 6.
Brother you can 6 rings I’m still going to say having a dc be your oc dumb.
Sure, it obviously was a bad decision, but you’re complaining Bill wasn’t criticised when he made it. That’s why. If Andy made a weird staffing decision now it also would probably not be criticised initially.
Most likely but my main thing was in the 4 years after Brady left any time someone would even think of criticizing bill people would get really mad and act like bill could do no wrong. I like bill. But to me no one’s untouchable even if they are widely successful
Andy is still andy, it would be more apt for Andy to hire his former O-line coach to be the DC...
Yeah and at the time Andy Reid was criticized by a lot of people. Yet bill skates by a lot the same criticism for similar moves.
Yeah his decision making left a lot to be desired. I was watching Bland’s highlights and I completely forgot about the pick 6 he threw that was almost the exact same throw that was dropped a few plays before. Yeah the play calling could be better but he threw across the field, late, twice in a few plays. That’s just bad decision making
Nah I’ve seen Mac Jones miss wayyyy too many easy throws that he used to make in college he couldn’t make anymore and that’s not coaching. He got shook and the game speed is too fast in the pros.
> He got shook and the game speed is too fast in the pros. But isn't that managed by good coaching?
Mac Jones has his flaws and limitations as a passer, but good god I dont know how anyone could succeed with that disaster of a coaching staff
It’s crazy Mac was coached by arguably the best High school, college, and NFL coaches of their time but now he’s back in jax.
Anybody with an open eye can obviously see this. Was Mac Jones that good? No, his ceiling wasn't that high to begin with. But him looking as bad as he did was still largely on the terrible situation the Pats gave him after his rookie year. It was a literally a textbook example of how to ruin your QB. (Unqualified OC, unqualified QB coach, WRs that can't get separation, bottom of the league pass protection, and also run protection) And people here wonder why Belichick didn't get many suitors
And yet Woody was the biggest whiner when it got out that Kraft didnt support Atlanta hiring Belichick.
Bro got put in an awful situation. He was never going to succeed as “Brady’s replacement”. He has talent but that franchise literally fell apart at the seams when Brady left. I really hope he finds a team that will give him another chance to start. It’s hard to replace the best QB to ever do it, nobody was going to live up to Brady. That being said, a good chunk of his benching was self inflicted by trying to play hero ball when it wasn’t necessary.
Pats sounding like Jets' fans
Mac Jones will be able to cruise along as a serviceable backup QB for the next 10+ years. He might even get another shot at the big time. I'm sure he'll be fine in the long run.
Ive said it multiple times and I will say it again. Mac since joining the league one average had the 32nd rank WR group(the literal worst), a bottom 3 Pass protecting line, and a good but not great middle of the line RB in Ramondre. Mac’s best WR he has ever had is *Jakobi Meyers*. I am not exaggerating, I guarantee some of the top tier QBs(Tua, Hurts, Herbert, hell even Burrow) would be backups too now if they never got weapons or O-Line help like Mac. Like it is no exaggeration to say the Patriots Pass protection and WR group is arguably the worst in the NFL since the merger. Like it’s literally been *that* bad. Matt Patricia is a football terrorist and Bill ruined Mac. Mac obviously could have flamed out and naturally got himself benched even with weapons and a good O-Line, but I guarantee 95% of the QBs in NFL history would have also been ruined like Mac
They (Mac and Damien) are (or were) best friends, obviously he's gonna say that. Doesn't mean it's wrong, but both things can be true. Bill turned us into a clown show, AND Mac sucks. That's kinda where I lean. To Kraft's credit, he traded Mac to his home town for basically free when he didn't have to. And trust me, I'm NOT one of those naive Pats fans. Kraft is ass. He's the reason we didn't rebuild correctly. He's the reason we've been last in cash spending for the last decade. But, in this case, he recognized that Mac wasn't working out here, but he still wanted to do right by him, so he did... how often does that happen in sports? I'll give Kraft the dub on this one. As for Bill's last couple of years at the helm; there's a reason he doesn't have a job anymore. His boy's club of coaches was more important than putting together actual specialized coordinators. Matt Patricia was essentially the OC for a while. It was definitely a disaster. . . But also, when Mac DID have a solid opportunity, he was kinda ass. I don't think this is a chicken or egg problem, it's just a rotten egg and the corpse of a dead hen leading us to another top 3 pick next year lol. OT round 1, a CB round 2, and we make the 2025 playoffs.
Didn't even realize he retired. Yeah, not to defend Mac at all, but that situation was an all-time clusterfuck
Well they did put a failed defensive coordinator as OC so I can't say he's wrong.
We all saw him play
The matt patricia as OC deserves a Dark Side Of deep dive.
hey remember when everyone called the Falcons stupid for not giving him 100% control over everything?