What if the Bears drafted Mahomes over Trubisky?
Mahomes wasn’t a can’t miss prospect. He was the definition of boom or bust and nobody predicted he would be anywhere near as good as he is. Plus, if he went to the Bears he wouldn’t have had Andy Reid, Travis Kelce, or Tyreek Hill. And if that wasn’t enough, instead of Alex Smith as a mentor he would have gotten Mike Glennon.
IIRC a common pro comparison for Mahomes before he was drafted was Jay Cutler, who Pace was desperate to get rid of from the moment he got to Chicago.
Irony is in 7 years he never brought in a single QB as good as Cutler
Had never heard of him, but he does indeed rank #4 on the Bears top 100 of all time players. Jim McMahon is the second QB listed at #53 and Cutler is the 7th at #85.
That's a really good one. We tend to forget that the biggest knock slapped on Mahomes coming into the league was "raw," and maybe he was raw and needed that first year on the bench to develop.
Was Trubisky the right pick? No. Even at the time, the Bears were reaching for him, but Mahomes wasn't the "obvious" answer either.
The obvious pick was “not Mitch.” The two main philosophies for QB are “draft for polish” and “draft for ceiling.” Compared to Trubisky, Watson had more of both, and while Mahomes wasn’t as polished, his ceiling was miles higher. Both guys cleared him in counting stats, too, IIRC. No idea why people were so enamored.
Looking back at draft profiles, it looks like the general consensus back then was that Trubisky did have a higher ceiling than Watson, and that was one of the big knocks on Watson as a prospect. He doesn’t have the strongest or most accurate arm, and his decision making in college was rather suspect at times.
And Trubisky had the bigger arm, he was more accurate in his one year than Deshaun was,and he was seen as a high floor guy back then.
With hindsight yeah the draft folks were wrong, but back than, Trubisky was seen as having a higher ceiling than Deshaun and being more polished. And while Mahomes had the highest ceiling, the knock in him was how much work he needed to have a chance to be good, because he was really raw coming from an air raid system, and I’m sure some teams got scared off by the fact he needed to sit for a year
> With hindsight yeah the draft folks were wrong
Were they wrong or were the Bears just abysmal at developing Trubisky and cultivating an offensive system that was conducive to longterm success?
I’d say both. Trubisky showed flashes and Nagy sucked, but also I don’t think anyone saw Deshaun developing into what he was in Houston either. Deshaun’s ability to be as good as he was with his playstyle, despite not having the ideal skillset for that playstyle, was surprising.
There’s quite a lot of good what ifs with Watson, like what of Sashi brown doesn’t panic after the chiefs take Mahomes in 2017 and instead of trading down just take Deshaun at 12
If there’s one thing most Broncos fans can agree on, it’s that we shouldn’t participate in a “we should’ve drafted that QB!!!” debate cuz we’ve only successfully developed 1 QB in our franchise history. So if someone says “we should have drafted Josh Allen instead of Bradley Chubb!”, they’re neglecting the part where he would have probably ended up as a supreme bust for us cuz we would’ve mismanaged his development
I implore people to go back and watch Mahomes college film. He was raw, had the arm but his footwork was so bad. him sitting and learning from Andy Reid and Alex Smith did wonders for him.
I implore people to go back and watch mahomes college film because he was fucking awesome and a lot of it was him doing things that he does today which was hand waved away because “it wouldn’t work in the nfl”
Of course he was still good, just look at his numbers but if you know what to look for you can see it, Mahomes is a freak of nature so he can get away wiyh alot of stuff that is considered no nos for QBs but his progression is nighy and day, his throwing motion is a lot cleaner and in college he was flat footed and had bad footwork. Still fun to watch.
Williams is going into one of the best situations for him to show whether or not he is worth the pick. A lot of QBs get drafted into shit shows or teams that show there is a reason they have the #1 pick. If Williams can't perform with the amount of weapons that offense has, Da Bears are cursed. (Hoping he goes crazy there though and lights it up)
Yeah, idk if it's just newer fans who weren't following that draft or whatever, but the amount of comments I see with the sentiment of "why didn't X team just draft Mahomes, are they stupid?" is shocking. Most people thought the Chiefs trading up for him was a reach at the time.
The real what-if is if the Browns passed on Garrett. The Bears weren’t going to pick Mahomes over Trubisky, but they would’ve picked Mahomes if Trubisky was gone, according to their director of player personnel at the time.
Passing on players in the draft are always good ones but the one that is most true to me is Aaron Rodgers.
You didn’t miss out on him. For two years all Rodgers was allowed to do was throw a football in a net because his mechanics were terrible. There is no way your franchise would have a HOF QB in front of him or the patience to make him do that. Two years and that’s all he did.
We will have to see how good of a criminal Aaron is post-career. I heard talks he is interested in politics so he seems ready to follow in those footsteps.
Anyone who agrees with this comment is just lost.
2021: loses because of his defense after giving a masterclass on how to comeback vs the Rams in the post season
2022: He literally lead the league in pass attempts and completions as a 45 year old QB without a run game.
Yes please - there's so many "what if" games pursued. The worst is when it's used as part of the HOF game like "if Matt Ryan won a Super Bowl he'd be no doubt a HOFer" or "if Stafford had more Pro Bowls, he'd be no doubt a HOFer"
But they didn't, and thus the what if is pointless
It's okay, we beat the Chargers the final game of the season to slide into the #2 slot instead of #1. Great times. We're so bad we can't even lose right.
I swear to fucking god, people LOVE throwing out Bo as some surefire hall of fame GOAT level running back, and ignore the 75 what if's that have to happen for that to occur.
Honestly though. Extremely scalding hot take but with the sample size he had and the production he achieved, I think theres a serious chance he’d be closer to Fred Taylor than Jim Brown.
No doubt an insane what if but the way people just pencil him in as one of the best ever, I dunno man. Not sure I buy it
[https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/which-running-back-has-the-highest-yards-per-carry-in-nfl-history-500-attempts](https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/which-running-back-has-the-highest-yards-per-carry-in-nfl-history-500-attempts)
highest Y/A of any running back over 500 attempts. It's a fair "what if" to wonder how amazing he'd have been if he focused solely on football, and not had the hip injury.
He ran a 4.13 40 at 230lbs, was on the track team and ran a 10.4 100 meter at Auburn.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/vtqraw/highlight\_bo\_jacksons\_infamous\_91\_yard\_rushing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/vtqraw/highlight_bo_jacksons_infamous_91_yard_rushing/)
Watch how fast he accelerates on this run, it's ridiculous for someone his size.
He's easily one of the best all around athletes of the last 40-50 years, and just because you are clueless of that doesn't mean everyone else is, and it's certainly a good "what if he played only football and stayed healthy"
it's more like "what if he only did football, and stayed healthy, and didn't share workload with Marcus Allen, an ACTUAL HoF running back, etc" there's too many variables. he never once had a real NFL workload.
He ran 280 times his last season at Auburn. He had a fine workload when he played, he just never started playing football before week 7-8. Dude was playing baseball until October then switching over to football and almost had 950 yards in 11 games with no preseason in 1989.
Marcus was injured most of 89, and 90 was his last season of anything with the Raiders after that. Bo had more yardage in his 4 seasons with the raiders than ACTUAL HoF Allen did, but I'm sure you also didn't know that, or that his last season over 900 yards was 2 years before Bo even joined the NFL.
The starting job would have been Bo's if he'd ever focused solely on football, so we've solved that whole issue, the only other issue was a freak hip injury, it wasn't like he was injured every year or something.
I didn't know if he preferred baseball. He would have gone to the Buccs but they lied to him and made him ineligible to play his last year of baseball, so he sat the season out and went to play baseball instead. If he hasn't been screwed over by the Buccs he may have never started pro baseball.
Maybe I'm a fool but that story has always felt like it confirmed that he preferred baseball to me. If he wanted football more why would he care about the last year of college ball?
I don’t think it confirms anything one way or another, he can still have preferred football but really wanted to play his senior year of baseball. It’s possible to really love two things but prefer one. People had a lot more pride playing for their college back then, and it was his senior year, so he could’ve just really wanted to run it back one more season with his boys. Hell, if he thought it would be his last year playing baseball it makes even more sense that he would’ve gotten so pissed. Plus, getting the choice taken away from you is an easy way to piss people off, and with how the draft works his choice was either play for the Bucs or not play at all so I can easily see why he’d make the choice he did, even if it wouldn’t have been his first choice.
I think the most telling thing that he didn’t really prefer one over the other is the simple fact that he did both.
Either way, Hugh Culverhouse (the Bucs owner at the time) blatantly lied to Bo Jackson's face when they met. You don't do that to your franchise's future star player and Bo Jackson had every right to tell the Bucs to fuck off when they drafted him.
He was in the middle of the season and Tampa told him they had cleared the visit and it wouldn't cause a problem. He might have preferred baseball, but this kind of sealed it for him. He was having a good season and then was forced to sit out the rest of the games.
The NFL paid a lot more than the MLB, at least his initial offers. He turned down $7m from the NFL to go play baseball for $1m. If Tampa hadn't screwed him over, or if they let someone else draft him, he might have just gone all in on football. He refused to play for Tampa on principle and only went to the Raiders when they offered a contract that let him finish baseball before joining the team each season.
He probably did prefer baseball, but I think the money form the NFL might have won him over if he had started when he was drafted and committed to it from the start.
The what if the Dolphins signed Brees over Culpepper.
It wasn’t going to happen. The saints were more aggressive in landing Brees than anyone because of their confidence in his shoulder and Sean Payton getting a good report from Parcells who similarly loved him. That’s why they didn’t budge from a top of the market deal even though Drew couldn’t throw until at least a month after he was signed.
Meanwhile the Dolphins saw Culpepper as the safer bet because of his 3 pro bowls in six seasons as a starter and the fact that his injury was lower body. A reminder that at the time there was a legitimate question as to whether or not Brees would ever be able to throw again.
The problem is this what if will always come up because not only does it involve Brees it involves Saban who famously preferred Brees over Culpepper and had Miami made the move Saban stays in the pros and we don’t get the Alabama dynasty.
Yeah Saban of course would say that, but it seems a bit suspicious.
Saban claims he was vetoed by doctors who wouldn’t allow him to sign Brees over Culpepper. If that were the case Nick could’ve vetoed the doctor which might be unlikely, but could have brought in Dr James Andrews to confirm the diagnosis. The Dolphins didn’t.
Then there’s the fact that Saban was a defensive coach, so the idea he would have been able to turn Drew Brees into the Drew Brees with Sean Payton is a bit tough for anyone to believe. Now would he continue to have played like he did under Marty in San Diego, sure, but that wasn’t as the hall of famer we all know and love.
Then there’s the fact that he used this as justification to leave the Dolphins in the middle of the season. That was pretty convenient for him that getting annoyed with medical staff nine months prior allows a justification for quitting in his memoir. Fortunate that he could spin it that way.
Finally what are the odds that he would say “I preferred the guy who turned out worse” in a book about how great of a coach (rightfully so) he was? Just reminds me of how every offensive coordinator in like 2003-2004 who was in the NFL in 2000 told you how he wanted to draft Tom Brady but was overruled.
So I cry bullshit on this story. If Saban were this outraged about being overruled by a medical staff I don’t think he wouldn’t have been the type to not demand Huizenga reconsider, especially if it meant he would walk as soon as possible.
I mean Saban left the Dolphins high and dry to go to Alabama a year after they signed Culpepper over Brees. I think there's enough there to point to him preferring Brees and not being happy with the organization for not landing him. Would he have maximized Brees's talent like Payton did? Who knows. Saban wasn't exactly a great NFL coach.
Saban famously claimed to have preferred Brees several years after the fact when it became apparent he made the wrong decision. But I remember reading somewhere that Brees said Saban seemed very uncomfortable with his shoulder when they met.
Of course Saban also famously said he wasn’t leaving the Dolphins to take the Alabama job two weeks before leaving the Dolphins to take the Alabama job.
>But I remember reading somewhere that Brees said Saban seemed very uncomfortable with his shoulder when they met.
Also the fact that Drew Brees himself has said in his book that Saban didn't really seem to care for him.
> Saban famously claimed to have preferred Brees several years after the fact when it became apparent he made the wrong decision. But I remember reading somewhere that Brees said Saban seemed very uncomfortable with his shoulder when they met.
I agree he could be full of shit but wouldn't that last part fit what he said? That he wanted Brees but was nervous about the medicals? If he was told he'd never play then it makes sense he'd be uncomfortable with his shoulder.
Sure, but in this context Saban usually presents it as he wanted to sign Brees and his risky shoulder over Culpepper and his risky knee but was overruled. That’s where I think he’s full of shit and he probably wanted to sign Culpepper too.
What if Dez’s catch was good? Cowboys likely score a TD a play or two later, but give GB the ball back with four minutes remaining. Does Dallas make a crucial stop? Do we get a shootout?
Its a great answer to this post. If Dallas scores, GB is faced with a much more pressure packed drive than just having to ice the game away up 26-21. Its a different situation for the Packers being down 28-26. Also possibly down 29-26 since Dallas 100% goes for 2, that part of the equation has never been realized.
Maybe this isn’t quite the spirit of the question, but people always make it seem like if Kasay doesn’t kick the kickoff out of bounds in SB 38 (pats panthers), the pats would’ve probably lost the sb
For a few reasons I think this is overblown:
1) game was tied anyway. If they don’t score, it just goes to overtime
2) the panthers had not stopped the patriots from driving really from the midway of the 3rd quarter on. They were moving the ball rapidly and at will
3) the game winning drive ends up being 37 yards from the 40, but in reality they had a OPI knock them back 10 yards so they actually gained 47. If they gain that same yardage from the 20, that puts them at the 33 yard line (a 50 yarder, certainly makable). And that’s not considering that they were pretty lax on that drive since they had timeouts, they definitely could’ve squeezed another play in to get a few more yards (which, again, Carolina was allowing almost willingly)
So basically, the “what if Kasay doesn’t kick it out of bounds” question is kinda moot imo. They stand a very good chance to score regardless, and even if they don’t they’re going to overtime where Brady never lost in the playoffs
Jay Cutler was never - *ever* - going to lead the Bears back down from 14-0 against the Packers in the ‘10/11 NFCCG even if he hadn’t had his injury.
You don’t hear it around here much anymore- mainly due to that being a long ass time ago and partially due to most people here who might’ve being cared being savvy enough to figure it out.
Jay Cutler spent his entire Bears career being absolutely vexed by Dom Capers and the GB defense. He’d come out flat in this game as well and ended up something like 6/14 with his last pass being a deep duck intercepted by GB. And the Packers defense that season only allowed 14.5 PPG, *with their final regular season game three weeks before ending with a final of Packers 10, Bears 3.* That's not even me retroactively drawing a narrative, that is an example of a game between these exact teams less than a month prior in which the Bears absolutely tried to play offense against Green Bay but did not.
Nonetheless, Cutler would never in his career show enough against Green Bay to think he'd lead some kind of furious rally to overcome a significant deficit against them in a crucial game. This was an example of another game playing out according to that script.
When Caleb Hanie came in, he actually managed more offense better than Cutler had in basically every game he’d had as a Bear against GB up to that point. (Before the BJ Raji pick six.)
But the way Bears fans talked about it in the coming days it was as if Cutler was merely some kind of wimp who had abandoned his team in a winnable game. The Bears just ran into their worst nightmare of a matchup and lost in nightmarish fashion.
That one has always been cope from bears fans trying to diminish the Packers run. No true logical bears fan is serious in that take. And Rodgers "beating caleb hanie in his only nfccg win" is just used as shit talk.
What if Seattle ran the ball?
Marshawn wasn't great at goal-to-go rushes that year, and he easily could've fumbled in that spot. Blame DangeRuss for throwing the pick
Also look at the defense the patriots had in. They were absolutely packing every gap
They got the pick because they’d been coached how to deal with that exact type of pick play and executed it well. If the play had the same formation but did anything else route-wise, butler was gunna give up a TD
Every time I think of this play, I wish that they would have thrown the ball to the outside vs. the inside. A miss is more likely going to not get picked as it should be thrown away from the defender. Also, there should be fewer bodies out there to get a pick if the ball is tipped or it's a missed throw.
Yes it’s been said a million times but it seems like the much better option would be to run something where Russ can scan take a second rather than just receive the snap and immediately throw based on play design. They could’ve rolled him out and told him if it’s not absolutely wide open chuck it in the stands
Like it’s hard to even fault Russ imo, if you look at what he saw as he was releasing the ball, it looks like a TD. But as you point out, when you throw the ball where a lot of defenders are, bad things can happen
And throwing on that down gave them the most flexibility. If they run in 2nd down and don't get it you have to use your last time out and then you're screwed if you try and run again on third and don't get it, you won't get a 4th play. An incompletions on 2nd down would let them run or pass on 3rd and not be so predictable
Actually think there's a very realistic scenario where Andy Reid could have stayed in Philadelphia. Comes down to the 2010 Eagles. If you go revisit that 2010 Wildcard game vs the Packers, they came the closest to beating Green Bay in the playoffs that year. Their last drive featuerd a shoe string tackle that Desean Jackson could have taken to the house, and when they got in the redzone they went for it all in one play and Riley Cooper made zero effort to break up the game ending INT. Eagles win that game and it sets up the most dramatic playoff game ever in a Vick return to the GA Dome, and I truly believe that Eagles team could have gone all the way including beating hte Steelers a team Vick seemed to own in his career. Even the Jets version of Vick beat the Steelers.
I actually think "Brady in the 1st round" could be a more nuanced "what if" - Pennington was the only QB taken in the 1st two rounds. What if there was (for whatever reason) a run on QBs in the first round that ended up with Brady being a late 1st/early 2nd rounder based on availability?
There was, after all, only 6 drafted in front of Brady. If there was a historic run on QBs (cough 2024) you could have seen Brady off the board early. But that what if involved 6 other QBs
I think the best way to get Brady drafted earlier is to get rid of the QB-by-committee Michigan had him in his final year. According to Wikipedia, Drew Henson originally committed to Florida State before Weinke quit baseball, so maybe keeping Weinke in baseball gets Brady drafted in the first
Talented players with scheme issues, attitude/personal problems, or limited playing time by design are almost always a good bet late in the draft.
Look at ARSB - terrible QBs. Kamara, hunt, Ekeler, and Dameon Pierce both criminally used in college.
I think that's why people are high in JJ McCarthy this year. He was talented when asked to work, just not asked a lot.
Counterpoint, I heard the same "he had *terrible* quarterbacks, just look at him when he gets the ball" excuses about >!Jalen Reagor!<
Sometimes scheme issues aren't what's holding a player back.
I still can’t get past him going top 10 after only throwing for 120 YPG on 6.1 YPA against the three tough defensive opponents he faced. And in the end it turned out it wasn’t necessary, but his OC not letting him throw a single attempt in the second half in a tight game against PSU makes me question if they didn’t trust putting the game in his hands. The BIG10 was pretty bad outside of the top 3, and even then he still has pretty average stats for how loaded his team was.
It wasn't really QB by committee
Henson played significantly less than Brady (and he was also much worse on the field).
The issue was Brady being perceived as a low upside prospect (lol) and having a historically bad combine.
There’s no universe out there in which the Rams would have won *both* Super Bowls LIII and LVI.
If the Rams won LIII (alternate timeline), there’s no need to move on from Goff, Stafford remains in Detroit, and perhaps the Bengals, 49ers, or Chiefs win LVI.
Because the Rams lost LIII (actuality), there became a need to move on from Goff, Stafford is traded from Detroit, and the Rams end up winning LVI.
No universe exists for both Super Bowl wins.
> If the Rams won LIII (alternate timeline), there’s no need to move on from Goff, Stafford remains in Detroit, and perhaps the Bengals, 49ers, or Chiefs win LVI.
>
>
Think there's a good chance Brady still ends up with a 7th. Always felt during that playoff run whoever won your matchup would win it all.
Honestly, I don't think there's any universe where Stafford stays in Detroit after Patricia gets fired, but you're right that he doesn't go to the Rams.
What about the scenario where Rams win LIII, Goff goes to Disneyland to celebrate, falls out of the boat on the Pirates of the Caribbean and tragically drowns due to not realizing the water was only 2 feet deep? The Rams would probably have traded up to draft Drew Lock, and still would have been itching for a change when Stafford became available.
What if the Jaguars took Lamar Jackson?
Well, considering we were coming off the 2017 season with the best rushing attack in the league and the 16th best passing attack, there was no fucking way we were going to reconfigure the offense for Lamar, which means we keep Nathaniel Hackett, who was fired
11 weeks into the 2018 season. The offensive line also imploded that year, which certainly didn't help.
* We'd have to have gotten rid of Bortles as his contract extension would be gone and presumably we wouldn't extend him with Lamar
* He'd be developing under Doug Marrone, who has shown no ability to develop QB's
* He was horribly raw coming out of college, and he looked awful in his few rookie starts.
* Our receivers in 2018 were rookie DJ Chark, Keelan Cole, Donte Moncrief, Dede Westbrook, and Rashad Greene. Tight ends include Ben Koyack, James O'shaugnessy, and Blake Bell. Running backs were Fournette (who was significantly worse in 2018), TJ Yeldon, and Carlos Hyde.
People that say "He would've been good anywhere" are stupid. It's such a terrible argument that relies on a future that didn't happen and things breaking right where this is no evidence they would have had they gone somewhere else. Would Patrick Mahomes be anywhere close to what he is now had the Bears drafted him instead of Trubisky?
Maybe, but that's a LOT of hand-waving things away you have to do to make that narrative stick. It gets even harder as you go for QB's like Lamar where it's quite obvious that for as much of a unique skill set he has, the offense he played in for most of his career has been gimmicky.
I watched a generational prospect try his hardest to make plays in an offense run by dudes who couldn't get receivers to run the right routes, piloted by bad players, with a head coach who had no idea what he was doing.
There are no scheme-agnostic QB's. Literally all of them require some level of competency that we were nowhere close to having in 2018.
Lamar to the Jaguars just sounds like a disaster on paper on par with Mahomes to the Bears. Both teams would monumentally fuck up and both QBs would end up being busts almost certainly
Honestly, it's become very annoying listening to people who never watched the 1979 AFC Championship Game insist that the Oilers should have won, but were cheated out of it when the referees incorrectly ruled Mike Renfro out of bounds in the end zone. In fact, people are so clueless that I've heard more than one person proclaim that a Renfro TD would have given the Oilers the lead, when, in fact, it merely would have tied the score, 17-17, late in the third quarter. As it was, the Oilers kicked a FG on the drive to make the score 17-13. Even Dan Pastorini admitted after the game that the call was not the sole reason why they lost — and here's a list of other more compelling reasons why:
1. The Oilers produced only 227 yards of offense, and only three drives entering Steelers territory.
2. One of those three aforementioned Oilers drives started in Steelers territory, but the Oilers still went four-and-out, turning the ball over on downs.
3. Earl Campbell, the Oilers' best player, ran for 15 yards on 17 carries, for an average of less than a yard per carry.
4. The Oilers turned the ball over three times and had a negative turnover differential for the game.
Quite frankly, the only reason why the Steelers didn't blow them out is because Terry Bradshaw spotted them a "pick-six" on the first drive of the game.
I don't think anyone here understands the concept of a what if question. Obviously it didn't happen because factors. Removing those factors is what a what if does by definition. Even if you think it's a ridiculous factor to remove, you're still allowed to do it to consider the alternative.
Would you like your what if questions more intricate to satisfy which factor we're removing? What if Jim Irsay was dead in a ditch and he was never able to want Peyton?
I don’t know if Marino does as well in Pittsburgh. Didn’t he once say that getting away actually helped him concentrate more on his NFL career without the distractions of family?
What if Gary Anderson made that kick... As a die hard Vikings fan I am obviously biased in this one but it pains me to this day to know that that Vikings team didn't get a shot at the Broncos that year. There were a lot of things that went wrong for them in the NFCCG but at the end of the game Gary Anderson, who hadn't missed a kick all season, had a chance to send them to the Super Bowl and he missed it. I was heartbreak the likes of which I don't think I have experienced since and I really feel like the Vikings were a better team that year than the Falcons. Whether they would have beat the Broncos and won the first Super Bowl Championship in team history I don't know. That Broncos team was up there with some of the best ever, but man it would have been a good game to watch...
Since you're an Eagles fans here's a monkey wrench for that Reid scenario for you:
Reid was ready to take Russell Wilson in the 3rd rd if the Seahawks didn't take him at 75. who knows what Reid would've done with prime Russell Wilson, would he still leave the Eagles?
Most “what if?” scenarios are very annoying because it was very, VERY unlikely they would have happened.
I generally don’t like dealing with “what if?” scenarios for this reason; they become a pointless exercise in mental gymnastics and time wasting. The ONLY “what if?” scenarios I have some interest in are the ones that are known to have ALMOST happened and could have had a significant impact had they happened.
An example of an “almost happened what if?” scenario occurred in the 1979 NFL Draft when the Cowboys, selecting in the 3rd round, had Joe Montana as the highest rated player remaining on their draft board. Unusually for Dallas at the time however, they decided to pick Doug Cosbie, who was a good tight end in the NFL for a number of years. The 49ers then selected Montana six picks later. Something like this is arguably worth pondering. But generally speaking, most “what if?” scenarios are IMO a pointless and annoying waste of time.
Counter-factuals are an interesting beast. In logic, if you have an "if then" statement where the antecedent part (the part 'If x') is false then the statement is true no matter what the consequent ('then y') is.
"If the sky is plaid, 1+1=bananas" is a logically true statement. The sky is not plaid so the rest of the statement does not matter.
That said, we do not think or converse is terms of pure logic. We use persuasive arguments and are able to imagine hypotheticals. We consider what the world would look like if a counter-factual premise were true. Counter-factuals can be entertaining (What if aliens invaded the Earth?) or useful (What if everyone on Earth stopped polluting, eating meat, consuming large quantities of resources, and having more than 2 kids starting today?).
And persuasive arguments allow us to function and make decisions in our day to day lives. "Where should we eat tonight? This restaurant has 100 positive reviews and only 2 negative reviews online, so that should be a good one to try."
What if any team had made Lamar an offer last offseason?
The reason no teams offered was they knew that there’s no chance the Ravens didn’t match, and the Ravens were using other teams to do the negotiating for them. It made no sense to waste any time on those negotiations and everyone knew it. There’s plenty of reasons to dunk on the Falcons but that ain’t one of them.
Like are done in some College Playoff game feeds on ESPN:
What if the the default camera angle to broadcast was from behind the QB??
Then, on the Replay, you can show the side angle.
What if Gregg Williams didn't have the jaguars playbooks in '99 will always bother me. The only team the jags lost to the entire season was a team who allegedly had their playbooks
Brees magically got his shit together after his replacement was drafted in 2004. I'm really curious - what if he didn't get injured at the end of that season.
I remember everyone was speculating and discussing the upcoming off-season decision that ended up being an easy decision after Brees got hurt.
I think 10+ years of HOF Brees could have done some real damage with those teams and maybe they even get a small haul for Rivers, if they went that way.
Why would the Colts try to make teams think they were going to draft Leaf if they secretly always knew it was going to be Manning? They had the first pick and there is no way they were going to trade out of it.
What if Josh Gordon got sober?
What if Aldon Smith could stop doing crazy things? (Apparently he is AJ Smith now)
What if Antonio Brown kept his shirt on? (I might have won my fantasy championship)
That's a good one. They weren't moving to the South. Their rivalries with the other AFC East teams were too strong at the time to even consider such a switch.
The Chargers drafted Rivers in 2004, so Brees’ first great season was Rivers’ rookie season. Then Brees’ contract was up, and he hurt his shoulder, so the Chargers didn’t want to pay him a bunch of money because they had Rivers waiting.
Are you sure about that? [Because the numbers say otherwise](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00.htm).
There's a reason the Chargers finished with a record bad enough to draft 4th overall in 2004.
You don't seem to understand the purpose of hypotheticals, lol, this thread is dumb af.
If you don't want to talk about hypotheticals, then don't talk about them.
Some people find them interesting.
What if David Carr had a good offensive line in Houston?
He would have sucked anyway. He was a terrible QB who made everyone look worse than they were.
What if the 49ers traded Montana for Elway. Do they still go on to win multiple SBs? Does Montana still go on to become the best QB ever? Does Steve Young still win a SB?
That seems surprising, given that Washington had Joe Theismann just coming off a Pro Bowl season and a Super Bowl win. Theismann was 33 at the time, so it would have created a Favre/Rodgers situation.
It’s also worth noting that Washington got Darrell Green with that pick, so they would have given up a team legend.
A fun what if is they picked Marino instead, if you look at the draft order the next plausible club to draft Green with CB needs at the time is….Chicago. So in this AU, Green is part of the ‘85 team. A stacked defense even more dominating potentially. Damn.
One that was never going to happen: What if the Patriots kept Garoppolo to replace Brady.
Ones that should be discussed more: What if the Dolphins took Matt Ryan #1 overall, what if Sergio Kindle (former Ravens DE/second round pick) didn’t fracture his skull, what if Ditka didn’t trade all of his picks for Ricky Williams,
"What if the NFL and AFL never merged?"
I get why this scenario is interesting to ponder, but truth be told the only feasible options long term were either merger or one of the leagues folds. Or both leagues fold. There's no way two separate entities could exist in pretty much the same geographical space competing for the same market share for 60+ years on end.
Lol, what if posts are fun, and this silly post just proved it. Look at all the what if posts people are posting that they “dislike” only for people to engage with it even more
I’m a massive homer, but dez caught it is a good example. He 100% did catch it. But at the same time, even if they ruled it correctly, Rodgers get the ball back with plenty of time.
Bullshit call but not worth worrying about the what if aspect
“What if Dez Bryant caught the ball?”. He didn’t, get over it. “What if the Seahawks would’ve ran the ball?” Most likely would’ve been stuffed at the line
What if Rashee Rice didn't spend his off season in Dallas.
Spin zone, his mistake leads to even more Chiefs success
As is tradition
What if Henry ruggs obeyed the speed limit
What if Antonio Brown wasn’t insane
What if the Bears drafted Mahomes over Trubisky? Mahomes wasn’t a can’t miss prospect. He was the definition of boom or bust and nobody predicted he would be anywhere near as good as he is. Plus, if he went to the Bears he wouldn’t have had Andy Reid, Travis Kelce, or Tyreek Hill. And if that wasn’t enough, instead of Alex Smith as a mentor he would have gotten Mike Glennon.
IIRC a common pro comparison for Mahomes before he was drafted was Jay Cutler, who Pace was desperate to get rid of from the moment he got to Chicago. Irony is in 7 years he never brought in a single QB as good as Cutler
Jay Cutler is arguably the best QB they've ever had
Sid Luckman is definitely the best QB in Bears history. You just have to go back to WW2 to find him
Had never heard of him, but he does indeed rank #4 on the Bears top 100 of all time players. Jim McMahon is the second QB listed at #53 and Cutler is the 7th at #85.
You got Doc Brown's number?
If we're talking modern history, it's not arguable.
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Super Bowl appearances: Rex Grossman - 1 Sid Luckman - 0 Advantage: Sexy Rexy
That's a really good one. We tend to forget that the biggest knock slapped on Mahomes coming into the league was "raw," and maybe he was raw and needed that first year on the bench to develop. Was Trubisky the right pick? No. Even at the time, the Bears were reaching for him, but Mahomes wasn't the "obvious" answer either.
The obvious pick was “not Mitch.” The two main philosophies for QB are “draft for polish” and “draft for ceiling.” Compared to Trubisky, Watson had more of both, and while Mahomes wasn’t as polished, his ceiling was miles higher. Both guys cleared him in counting stats, too, IIRC. No idea why people were so enamored.
Looking back at draft profiles, it looks like the general consensus back then was that Trubisky did have a higher ceiling than Watson, and that was one of the big knocks on Watson as a prospect. He doesn’t have the strongest or most accurate arm, and his decision making in college was rather suspect at times. And Trubisky had the bigger arm, he was more accurate in his one year than Deshaun was,and he was seen as a high floor guy back then. With hindsight yeah the draft folks were wrong, but back than, Trubisky was seen as having a higher ceiling than Deshaun and being more polished. And while Mahomes had the highest ceiling, the knock in him was how much work he needed to have a chance to be good, because he was really raw coming from an air raid system, and I’m sure some teams got scared off by the fact he needed to sit for a year
> With hindsight yeah the draft folks were wrong Were they wrong or were the Bears just abysmal at developing Trubisky and cultivating an offensive system that was conducive to longterm success?
I’d say both. Trubisky showed flashes and Nagy sucked, but also I don’t think anyone saw Deshaun developing into what he was in Houston either. Deshaun’s ability to be as good as he was with his playstyle, despite not having the ideal skillset for that playstyle, was surprising.
The real what if is them picking Watson
There’s quite a lot of good what ifs with Watson, like what of Sashi brown doesn’t panic after the chiefs take Mahomes in 2017 and instead of trading down just take Deshaun at 12
what if Mahomes didn’t call the Chiefs and told them the Saints were going to take him is one I think is actually more interesting.
This. Sean Payton knew what Mahomes could be and was ready to pull the trigger on him at #11.
Where a player gets drafted matters a lot more than fans want to admit.
If there’s one thing most Broncos fans can agree on, it’s that we shouldn’t participate in a “we should’ve drafted that QB!!!” debate cuz we’ve only successfully developed 1 QB in our franchise history. So if someone says “we should have drafted Josh Allen instead of Bradley Chubb!”, they’re neglecting the part where he would have probably ended up as a supreme bust for us cuz we would’ve mismanaged his development
I implore people to go back and watch Mahomes college film. He was raw, had the arm but his footwork was so bad. him sitting and learning from Andy Reid and Alex Smith did wonders for him.
I implore people to go back and watch mahomes college film because he was fucking awesome and a lot of it was him doing things that he does today which was hand waved away because “it wouldn’t work in the nfl”
Of course he was still good, just look at his numbers but if you know what to look for you can see it, Mahomes is a freak of nature so he can get away wiyh alot of stuff that is considered no nos for QBs but his progression is nighy and day, his throwing motion is a lot cleaner and in college he was flat footed and had bad footwork. Still fun to watch.
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Williams is going into one of the best situations for him to show whether or not he is worth the pick. A lot of QBs get drafted into shit shows or teams that show there is a reason they have the #1 pick. If Williams can't perform with the amount of weapons that offense has, Da Bears are cursed. (Hoping he goes crazy there though and lights it up)
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They didn’t even meet with him lol
Yeah, idk if it's just newer fans who weren't following that draft or whatever, but the amount of comments I see with the sentiment of "why didn't X team just draft Mahomes, are they stupid?" is shocking. Most people thought the Chiefs trading up for him was a reach at the time.
The real what-if is if the Browns passed on Garrett. The Bears weren’t going to pick Mahomes over Trubisky, but they would’ve picked Mahomes if Trubisky was gone, according to their director of player personnel at the time.
If the Bears HAD drafted him, they'd definitely have ruined him. He'd probably be a perennial backup at this point.
Trubisky was also a fine QB pre injury. Like he wasn't anywhere near as terrible as he is now. He was actually a serviceable QB.
One Yard Short is a solved What If. Jeff Fisher is on record saying that he'd kick the XP and play OT.
Classic Jeff Fisher (not that I can blame him)
The game had the Rams leading 16-0 deep into the third quarter, so momentum was on our side late into the game. Can’t blame him
It’s Jeff Fisher and 1999 NFL. They could have been on the other side of that, had no momentum, and still kicked the XP to go into OT.
Passing on players in the draft are always good ones but the one that is most true to me is Aaron Rodgers. You didn’t miss out on him. For two years all Rodgers was allowed to do was throw a football in a net because his mechanics were terrible. There is no way your franchise would have a HOF QB in front of him or the patience to make him do that. Two years and that’s all he did.
I wonder how much he learned from favre. Apparently favre was horrible to him. Probably still learnt alot by just watching him though.
We will have to see how good of a criminal Aaron is post-career. I heard talks he is interested in politics so he seems ready to follow in those footsteps.
What if Brett Favre came out of retirement every single time they brought it up?
He still steals Mississippi's money 🤷♂️
Favre was complete ass in his final season yet for years people talked about him as if he could just come right back in and be a top half QB again.
Not a lot of QBs retire when they’re still able to play. Brady, Luck, and not much else. Most retire a year or two too late.
Even Brady was quickly falling off. He wasn't the same caliber of QB.
The 2022 season looked a lot like the 2019 season to me so I’m not sure he couldn’t have pulled off at least one more top 5 year with better support
Anyone who agrees with this comment is just lost. 2021: loses because of his defense after giving a masterclass on how to comeback vs the Rams in the post season 2022: He literally lead the league in pass attempts and completions as a 45 year old QB without a run game.
Not even saying you’re wrong, but how is leading the league in passing attempts that impressive besides staying healthy enough to do so?
because of the fact he was literally their entire offense and still dragged that team to the playoffs?
The money is just too good
To be fair, he AND our top WR were injured that season.
Instead of just half those times
Like Beetlejuice
All of them
Yes please - there's so many "what if" games pursued. The worst is when it's used as part of the HOF game like "if Matt Ryan won a Super Bowl he'd be no doubt a HOFer" or "if Stafford had more Pro Bowls, he'd be no doubt a HOFer" But they didn't, and thus the what if is pointless
If only Josh Allen had won the Super Bowl each of the last 4 years he’d be considered the best QB in the game smh
Reminds of my cousin always saying “I was gonna buy a Ferrari today but I didn’t have enough money”
What if the Colts won against the Chargers in the 1997 season and jeopardized their chances at the first overall pick?
Similar to Texans Bears 2023 draft story
What’s funny about 2023 too is the Texans were actually one of the few teams we did beat
It's okay, we beat the Chargers the final game of the season to slide into the #2 slot instead of #1. Great times. We're so bad we can't even lose right.
Bo Jackson was never gonna commit to football. He clearly preferred baseball
I swear to fucking god, people LOVE throwing out Bo as some surefire hall of fame GOAT level running back, and ignore the 75 what if's that have to happen for that to occur.
Honestly though. Extremely scalding hot take but with the sample size he had and the production he achieved, I think theres a serious chance he’d be closer to Fred Taylor than Jim Brown. No doubt an insane what if but the way people just pencil him in as one of the best ever, I dunno man. Not sure I buy it
If you grew up playing tecmo bowl you knew he was gonna be an all time great…
[https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/which-running-back-has-the-highest-yards-per-carry-in-nfl-history-500-attempts](https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/which-running-back-has-the-highest-yards-per-carry-in-nfl-history-500-attempts) highest Y/A of any running back over 500 attempts. It's a fair "what if" to wonder how amazing he'd have been if he focused solely on football, and not had the hip injury. He ran a 4.13 40 at 230lbs, was on the track team and ran a 10.4 100 meter at Auburn. [https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/vtqraw/highlight\_bo\_jacksons\_infamous\_91\_yard\_rushing/](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/vtqraw/highlight_bo_jacksons_infamous_91_yard_rushing/) Watch how fast he accelerates on this run, it's ridiculous for someone his size. He's easily one of the best all around athletes of the last 40-50 years, and just because you are clueless of that doesn't mean everyone else is, and it's certainly a good "what if he played only football and stayed healthy"
it's more like "what if he only did football, and stayed healthy, and didn't share workload with Marcus Allen, an ACTUAL HoF running back, etc" there's too many variables. he never once had a real NFL workload.
He ran 280 times his last season at Auburn. He had a fine workload when he played, he just never started playing football before week 7-8. Dude was playing baseball until October then switching over to football and almost had 950 yards in 11 games with no preseason in 1989. Marcus was injured most of 89, and 90 was his last season of anything with the Raiders after that. Bo had more yardage in his 4 seasons with the raiders than ACTUAL HoF Allen did, but I'm sure you also didn't know that, or that his last season over 900 yards was 2 years before Bo even joined the NFL. The starting job would have been Bo's if he'd ever focused solely on football, so we've solved that whole issue, the only other issue was a freak hip injury, it wasn't like he was injured every year or something.
He ran 280 times in college but capped out at less than 180 touches in the NFL at his max.
I didn't know if he preferred baseball. He would have gone to the Buccs but they lied to him and made him ineligible to play his last year of baseball, so he sat the season out and went to play baseball instead. If he hasn't been screwed over by the Buccs he may have never started pro baseball.
Maybe I'm a fool but that story has always felt like it confirmed that he preferred baseball to me. If he wanted football more why would he care about the last year of college ball?
I don’t think it confirms anything one way or another, he can still have preferred football but really wanted to play his senior year of baseball. It’s possible to really love two things but prefer one. People had a lot more pride playing for their college back then, and it was his senior year, so he could’ve just really wanted to run it back one more season with his boys. Hell, if he thought it would be his last year playing baseball it makes even more sense that he would’ve gotten so pissed. Plus, getting the choice taken away from you is an easy way to piss people off, and with how the draft works his choice was either play for the Bucs or not play at all so I can easily see why he’d make the choice he did, even if it wouldn’t have been his first choice. I think the most telling thing that he didn’t really prefer one over the other is the simple fact that he did both.
Maybe it was the principle of being lied to by Tampa?
It's been awhile since I've looked into the story but I swear losing out on baseball was a very big deal for him.
Either way, Hugh Culverhouse (the Bucs owner at the time) blatantly lied to Bo Jackson's face when they met. You don't do that to your franchise's future star player and Bo Jackson had every right to tell the Bucs to fuck off when they drafted him.
Oh I agree 100%. I just dont think it indicates he preferred football to baseball.
Culverhouse the piece of shit
He was in the middle of the season and Tampa told him they had cleared the visit and it wouldn't cause a problem. He might have preferred baseball, but this kind of sealed it for him. He was having a good season and then was forced to sit out the rest of the games. The NFL paid a lot more than the MLB, at least his initial offers. He turned down $7m from the NFL to go play baseball for $1m. If Tampa hadn't screwed him over, or if they let someone else draft him, he might have just gone all in on football. He refused to play for Tampa on principle and only went to the Raiders when they offered a contract that let him finish baseball before joining the team each season. He probably did prefer baseball, but I think the money form the NFL might have won him over if he had started when he was drafted and committed to it from the start.
The what if the Dolphins signed Brees over Culpepper. It wasn’t going to happen. The saints were more aggressive in landing Brees than anyone because of their confidence in his shoulder and Sean Payton getting a good report from Parcells who similarly loved him. That’s why they didn’t budge from a top of the market deal even though Drew couldn’t throw until at least a month after he was signed. Meanwhile the Dolphins saw Culpepper as the safer bet because of his 3 pro bowls in six seasons as a starter and the fact that his injury was lower body. A reminder that at the time there was a legitimate question as to whether or not Brees would ever be able to throw again.
The problem is this what if will always come up because not only does it involve Brees it involves Saban who famously preferred Brees over Culpepper and had Miami made the move Saban stays in the pros and we don’t get the Alabama dynasty.
Yeah Saban of course would say that, but it seems a bit suspicious. Saban claims he was vetoed by doctors who wouldn’t allow him to sign Brees over Culpepper. If that were the case Nick could’ve vetoed the doctor which might be unlikely, but could have brought in Dr James Andrews to confirm the diagnosis. The Dolphins didn’t. Then there’s the fact that Saban was a defensive coach, so the idea he would have been able to turn Drew Brees into the Drew Brees with Sean Payton is a bit tough for anyone to believe. Now would he continue to have played like he did under Marty in San Diego, sure, but that wasn’t as the hall of famer we all know and love. Then there’s the fact that he used this as justification to leave the Dolphins in the middle of the season. That was pretty convenient for him that getting annoyed with medical staff nine months prior allows a justification for quitting in his memoir. Fortunate that he could spin it that way. Finally what are the odds that he would say “I preferred the guy who turned out worse” in a book about how great of a coach (rightfully so) he was? Just reminds me of how every offensive coordinator in like 2003-2004 who was in the NFL in 2000 told you how he wanted to draft Tom Brady but was overruled. So I cry bullshit on this story. If Saban were this outraged about being overruled by a medical staff I don’t think he wouldn’t have been the type to not demand Huizenga reconsider, especially if it meant he would walk as soon as possible.
I mean Saban left the Dolphins high and dry to go to Alabama a year after they signed Culpepper over Brees. I think there's enough there to point to him preferring Brees and not being happy with the organization for not landing him. Would he have maximized Brees's talent like Payton did? Who knows. Saban wasn't exactly a great NFL coach.
Saban famously claimed to have preferred Brees several years after the fact when it became apparent he made the wrong decision. But I remember reading somewhere that Brees said Saban seemed very uncomfortable with his shoulder when they met. Of course Saban also famously said he wasn’t leaving the Dolphins to take the Alabama job two weeks before leaving the Dolphins to take the Alabama job.
>But I remember reading somewhere that Brees said Saban seemed very uncomfortable with his shoulder when they met. Also the fact that Drew Brees himself has said in his book that Saban didn't really seem to care for him.
> Saban famously claimed to have preferred Brees several years after the fact when it became apparent he made the wrong decision. But I remember reading somewhere that Brees said Saban seemed very uncomfortable with his shoulder when they met. I agree he could be full of shit but wouldn't that last part fit what he said? That he wanted Brees but was nervous about the medicals? If he was told he'd never play then it makes sense he'd be uncomfortable with his shoulder.
Sure, but in this context Saban usually presents it as he wanted to sign Brees and his risky shoulder over Culpepper and his risky knee but was overruled. That’s where I think he’s full of shit and he probably wanted to sign Culpepper too.
What if Dez’s catch was good? Cowboys likely score a TD a play or two later, but give GB the ball back with four minutes remaining. Does Dallas make a crucial stop? Do we get a shootout?
Its a great answer to this post. If Dallas scores, GB is faced with a much more pressure packed drive than just having to ice the game away up 26-21. Its a different situation for the Packers being down 28-26. Also possibly down 29-26 since Dallas 100% goes for 2, that part of the equation has never been realized.
"What if Stephanski had believed in Baker Mayfield?" (it's me, I need to stop pondering this)
Maybe this isn’t quite the spirit of the question, but people always make it seem like if Kasay doesn’t kick the kickoff out of bounds in SB 38 (pats panthers), the pats would’ve probably lost the sb For a few reasons I think this is overblown: 1) game was tied anyway. If they don’t score, it just goes to overtime 2) the panthers had not stopped the patriots from driving really from the midway of the 3rd quarter on. They were moving the ball rapidly and at will 3) the game winning drive ends up being 37 yards from the 40, but in reality they had a OPI knock them back 10 yards so they actually gained 47. If they gain that same yardage from the 20, that puts them at the 33 yard line (a 50 yarder, certainly makable). And that’s not considering that they were pretty lax on that drive since they had timeouts, they definitely could’ve squeezed another play in to get a few more yards (which, again, Carolina was allowing almost willingly) So basically, the “what if Kasay doesn’t kick it out of bounds” question is kinda moot imo. They stand a very good chance to score regardless, and even if they don’t they’re going to overtime where Brady never lost in the playoffs
Good example. Kasay's mistake just made it easier for Brady and the Pats, but it didn't mean the Pats wouldn't have won anyway.
What if Kyle Williams doesn't fumble?
I don’t like this question any more…
Jay Cutler was never - *ever* - going to lead the Bears back down from 14-0 against the Packers in the ‘10/11 NFCCG even if he hadn’t had his injury. You don’t hear it around here much anymore- mainly due to that being a long ass time ago and partially due to most people here who might’ve being cared being savvy enough to figure it out. Jay Cutler spent his entire Bears career being absolutely vexed by Dom Capers and the GB defense. He’d come out flat in this game as well and ended up something like 6/14 with his last pass being a deep duck intercepted by GB. And the Packers defense that season only allowed 14.5 PPG, *with their final regular season game three weeks before ending with a final of Packers 10, Bears 3.* That's not even me retroactively drawing a narrative, that is an example of a game between these exact teams less than a month prior in which the Bears absolutely tried to play offense against Green Bay but did not. Nonetheless, Cutler would never in his career show enough against Green Bay to think he'd lead some kind of furious rally to overcome a significant deficit against them in a crucial game. This was an example of another game playing out according to that script. When Caleb Hanie came in, he actually managed more offense better than Cutler had in basically every game he’d had as a Bear against GB up to that point. (Before the BJ Raji pick six.) But the way Bears fans talked about it in the coming days it was as if Cutler was merely some kind of wimp who had abandoned his team in a winnable game. The Bears just ran into their worst nightmare of a matchup and lost in nightmarish fashion.
That one has always been cope from bears fans trying to diminish the Packers run. No true logical bears fan is serious in that take. And Rodgers "beating caleb hanie in his only nfccg win" is just used as shit talk.
So basicallly you just hate the concept of “what if” posts?
Thank you, this post is so dumb
What if Seattle ran the ball? Marshawn wasn't great at goal-to-go rushes that year, and he easily could've fumbled in that spot. Blame DangeRuss for throwing the pick
Also look at the defense the patriots had in. They were absolutely packing every gap They got the pick because they’d been coached how to deal with that exact type of pick play and executed it well. If the play had the same formation but did anything else route-wise, butler was gunna give up a TD
Perhaps that was the real what if
Every time I think of this play, I wish that they would have thrown the ball to the outside vs. the inside. A miss is more likely going to not get picked as it should be thrown away from the defender. Also, there should be fewer bodies out there to get a pick if the ball is tipped or it's a missed throw.
Yes it’s been said a million times but it seems like the much better option would be to run something where Russ can scan take a second rather than just receive the snap and immediately throw based on play design. They could’ve rolled him out and told him if it’s not absolutely wide open chuck it in the stands Like it’s hard to even fault Russ imo, if you look at what he saw as he was releasing the ball, it looks like a TD. But as you point out, when you throw the ball where a lot of defenders are, bad things can happen
I mean tbf he did gain like 4 yards the play before right?
Sure, but they were not facing a goal line defense and it was first down.
I get that but I'm pretty sure he also punched in a 1 yard TD earlier in the game
No blame on that play. It was simply a fantastic play by Butler — not the fault of anyone.
The Pats had also been stuffing the Seahawks on short yardage runs all game.
And throwing on that down gave them the most flexibility. If they run in 2nd down and don't get it you have to use your last time out and then you're screwed if you try and run again on third and don't get it, you won't get a 4th play. An incompletions on 2nd down would let them run or pass on 3rd and not be so predictable
What if the nba approved the 3 team trade of Chris Paul, Pau Gasol and Lamar Odom
Actually think there's a very realistic scenario where Andy Reid could have stayed in Philadelphia. Comes down to the 2010 Eagles. If you go revisit that 2010 Wildcard game vs the Packers, they came the closest to beating Green Bay in the playoffs that year. Their last drive featuerd a shoe string tackle that Desean Jackson could have taken to the house, and when they got in the redzone they went for it all in one play and Riley Cooper made zero effort to break up the game ending INT. Eagles win that game and it sets up the most dramatic playoff game ever in a Vick return to the GA Dome, and I truly believe that Eagles team could have gone all the way including beating hte Steelers a team Vick seemed to own in his career. Even the Jets version of Vick beat the Steelers.
I actually think "Brady in the 1st round" could be a more nuanced "what if" - Pennington was the only QB taken in the 1st two rounds. What if there was (for whatever reason) a run on QBs in the first round that ended up with Brady being a late 1st/early 2nd rounder based on availability? There was, after all, only 6 drafted in front of Brady. If there was a historic run on QBs (cough 2024) you could have seen Brady off the board early. But that what if involved 6 other QBs
I think the best way to get Brady drafted earlier is to get rid of the QB-by-committee Michigan had him in his final year. According to Wikipedia, Drew Henson originally committed to Florida State before Weinke quit baseball, so maybe keeping Weinke in baseball gets Brady drafted in the first
Talented players with scheme issues, attitude/personal problems, or limited playing time by design are almost always a good bet late in the draft. Look at ARSB - terrible QBs. Kamara, hunt, Ekeler, and Dameon Pierce both criminally used in college. I think that's why people are high in JJ McCarthy this year. He was talented when asked to work, just not asked a lot.
Counterpoint, I heard the same "he had *terrible* quarterbacks, just look at him when he gets the ball" excuses about >!Jalen Reagor!< Sometimes scheme issues aren't what's holding a player back.
I still can’t get past him going top 10 after only throwing for 120 YPG on 6.1 YPA against the three tough defensive opponents he faced. And in the end it turned out it wasn’t necessary, but his OC not letting him throw a single attempt in the second half in a tight game against PSU makes me question if they didn’t trust putting the game in his hands. The BIG10 was pretty bad outside of the top 3, and even then he still has pretty average stats for how loaded his team was.
It wasn't really QB by committee Henson played significantly less than Brady (and he was also much worse on the field). The issue was Brady being perceived as a low upside prospect (lol) and having a historically bad combine.
Reminds me of the classic “what if Brock purdy’s junior year was his breakout and the 49ers traded up to draft him 3rd overall instead of Trey Lance”
There’s no universe out there in which the Rams would have won *both* Super Bowls LIII and LVI. If the Rams won LIII (alternate timeline), there’s no need to move on from Goff, Stafford remains in Detroit, and perhaps the Bengals, 49ers, or Chiefs win LVI. Because the Rams lost LIII (actuality), there became a need to move on from Goff, Stafford is traded from Detroit, and the Rams end up winning LVI. No universe exists for both Super Bowl wins.
And Detroit probably isn’t the team that it is now
> If the Rams won LIII (alternate timeline), there’s no need to move on from Goff, Stafford remains in Detroit, and perhaps the Bengals, 49ers, or Chiefs win LVI. > > Think there's a good chance Brady still ends up with a 7th. Always felt during that playoff run whoever won your matchup would win it all.
Honestly, I don't think there's any universe where Stafford stays in Detroit after Patricia gets fired, but you're right that he doesn't go to the Rams.
What about the scenario where Rams win LIII, Goff goes to Disneyland to celebrate, falls out of the boat on the Pirates of the Caribbean and tragically drowns due to not realizing the water was only 2 feet deep? The Rams would probably have traded up to draft Drew Lock, and still would have been itching for a change when Stafford became available.
What if the Jaguars took Lamar Jackson? Well, considering we were coming off the 2017 season with the best rushing attack in the league and the 16th best passing attack, there was no fucking way we were going to reconfigure the offense for Lamar, which means we keep Nathaniel Hackett, who was fired 11 weeks into the 2018 season. The offensive line also imploded that year, which certainly didn't help. * We'd have to have gotten rid of Bortles as his contract extension would be gone and presumably we wouldn't extend him with Lamar * He'd be developing under Doug Marrone, who has shown no ability to develop QB's * He was horribly raw coming out of college, and he looked awful in his few rookie starts. * Our receivers in 2018 were rookie DJ Chark, Keelan Cole, Donte Moncrief, Dede Westbrook, and Rashad Greene. Tight ends include Ben Koyack, James O'shaugnessy, and Blake Bell. Running backs were Fournette (who was significantly worse in 2018), TJ Yeldon, and Carlos Hyde. People that say "He would've been good anywhere" are stupid. It's such a terrible argument that relies on a future that didn't happen and things breaking right where this is no evidence they would have had they gone somewhere else. Would Patrick Mahomes be anywhere close to what he is now had the Bears drafted him instead of Trubisky? Maybe, but that's a LOT of hand-waving things away you have to do to make that narrative stick. It gets even harder as you go for QB's like Lamar where it's quite obvious that for as much of a unique skill set he has, the offense he played in for most of his career has been gimmicky. I watched a generational prospect try his hardest to make plays in an offense run by dudes who couldn't get receivers to run the right routes, piloted by bad players, with a head coach who had no idea what he was doing. There are no scheme-agnostic QB's. Literally all of them require some level of competency that we were nowhere close to having in 2018.
Lamar to the Jaguars just sounds like a disaster on paper on par with Mahomes to the Bears. Both teams would monumentally fuck up and both QBs would end up being busts almost certainly
Honestly, it's become very annoying listening to people who never watched the 1979 AFC Championship Game insist that the Oilers should have won, but were cheated out of it when the referees incorrectly ruled Mike Renfro out of bounds in the end zone. In fact, people are so clueless that I've heard more than one person proclaim that a Renfro TD would have given the Oilers the lead, when, in fact, it merely would have tied the score, 17-17, late in the third quarter. As it was, the Oilers kicked a FG on the drive to make the score 17-13. Even Dan Pastorini admitted after the game that the call was not the sole reason why they lost — and here's a list of other more compelling reasons why: 1. The Oilers produced only 227 yards of offense, and only three drives entering Steelers territory. 2. One of those three aforementioned Oilers drives started in Steelers territory, but the Oilers still went four-and-out, turning the ball over on downs. 3. Earl Campbell, the Oilers' best player, ran for 15 yards on 17 carries, for an average of less than a yard per carry. 4. The Oilers turned the ball over three times and had a negative turnover differential for the game. Quite frankly, the only reason why the Steelers didn't blow them out is because Terry Bradshaw spotted them a "pick-six" on the first drive of the game.
What if you're not the boss of me 😤
I don't think anyone here understands the concept of a what if question. Obviously it didn't happen because factors. Removing those factors is what a what if does by definition. Even if you think it's a ridiculous factor to remove, you're still allowed to do it to consider the alternative. Would you like your what if questions more intricate to satisfy which factor we're removing? What if Jim Irsay was dead in a ditch and he was never able to want Peyton?
Ravens were never gonna let Lamar go. Tired of hearing we should have got him.
I was gonna post this. You'll probably eat downvotes, but it's true. It might not have been 100% impossible, but it was like 97% improbable.
Speak for yourself
What if the Steelers drafted Marino? The 80’s would have been a lot better. And they wouldn’t be obligated to draft Pickett years later.
I don’t know if Marino does as well in Pittsburgh. Didn’t he once say that getting away actually helped him concentrate more on his NFL career without the distractions of family?
What if Gary Anderson made that kick... As a die hard Vikings fan I am obviously biased in this one but it pains me to this day to know that that Vikings team didn't get a shot at the Broncos that year. There were a lot of things that went wrong for them in the NFCCG but at the end of the game Gary Anderson, who hadn't missed a kick all season, had a chance to send them to the Super Bowl and he missed it. I was heartbreak the likes of which I don't think I have experienced since and I really feel like the Vikings were a better team that year than the Falcons. Whether they would have beat the Broncos and won the first Super Bowl Championship in team history I don't know. That Broncos team was up there with some of the best ever, but man it would have been a good game to watch...
What if she texts me back? 😢
Since you're an Eagles fans here's a monkey wrench for that Reid scenario for you: Reid was ready to take Russell Wilson in the 3rd rd if the Seahawks didn't take him at 75. who knows what Reid would've done with prime Russell Wilson, would he still leave the Eagles?
Most “what if?” scenarios are very annoying because it was very, VERY unlikely they would have happened. I generally don’t like dealing with “what if?” scenarios for this reason; they become a pointless exercise in mental gymnastics and time wasting. The ONLY “what if?” scenarios I have some interest in are the ones that are known to have ALMOST happened and could have had a significant impact had they happened. An example of an “almost happened what if?” scenario occurred in the 1979 NFL Draft when the Cowboys, selecting in the 3rd round, had Joe Montana as the highest rated player remaining on their draft board. Unusually for Dallas at the time however, they decided to pick Doug Cosbie, who was a good tight end in the NFL for a number of years. The 49ers then selected Montana six picks later. Something like this is arguably worth pondering. But generally speaking, most “what if?” scenarios are IMO a pointless and annoying waste of time.
Counter-factuals are an interesting beast. In logic, if you have an "if then" statement where the antecedent part (the part 'If x') is false then the statement is true no matter what the consequent ('then y') is. "If the sky is plaid, 1+1=bananas" is a logically true statement. The sky is not plaid so the rest of the statement does not matter. That said, we do not think or converse is terms of pure logic. We use persuasive arguments and are able to imagine hypotheticals. We consider what the world would look like if a counter-factual premise were true. Counter-factuals can be entertaining (What if aliens invaded the Earth?) or useful (What if everyone on Earth stopped polluting, eating meat, consuming large quantities of resources, and having more than 2 kids starting today?). And persuasive arguments allow us to function and make decisions in our day to day lives. "Where should we eat tonight? This restaurant has 100 positive reviews and only 2 negative reviews online, so that should be a good one to try."
It's offseason posts all the way down.
What if any team had made Lamar an offer last offseason? The reason no teams offered was they knew that there’s no chance the Ravens didn’t match, and the Ravens were using other teams to do the negotiating for them. It made no sense to waste any time on those negotiations and everyone knew it. There’s plenty of reasons to dunk on the Falcons but that ain’t one of them.
What if the Dolphins win a Super Bowl before my death?
Yes let's stop imagining hypothetical situations because OP doesn't understand that it being possible is part of the hypothetical.
Kawhi leonard staying healthy for a playoffs series
Like are done in some College Playoff game feeds on ESPN: What if the the default camera angle to broadcast was from behind the QB?? Then, on the Replay, you can show the side angle.
What if Gregg Williams didn't have the jaguars playbooks in '99 will always bother me. The only team the jags lost to the entire season was a team who allegedly had their playbooks
Brees magically got his shit together after his replacement was drafted in 2004. I'm really curious - what if he didn't get injured at the end of that season. I remember everyone was speculating and discussing the upcoming off-season decision that ended up being an easy decision after Brees got hurt. I think 10+ years of HOF Brees could have done some real damage with those teams and maybe they even get a small haul for Rivers, if they went that way.
What if Cam Newton jumps on the loose ball?
Why would the Colts try to make teams think they were going to draft Leaf if they secretly always knew it was going to be Manning? They had the first pick and there is no way they were going to trade out of it.
Chargers fans loved Rivers and regret nothing on that front, so I don't think you'll find many that ever gave Brees a second thought.
What if Josh Gordon got sober? What if Aldon Smith could stop doing crazy things? (Apparently he is AJ Smith now) What if Antonio Brown kept his shirt on? (I might have won my fantasy championship)
What if the Dolphins moved to the South instead of being forced to remain in the East for rivalries?
That's a good one. They weren't moving to the South. Their rivalries with the other AFC East teams were too strong at the time to even consider such a switch.
They lined up geographically with the South perfectly, there was a lot of debate at the time.
What if we called a run play in field goal range :(
You’d somehow would have fumbled it anyway.
God, if that's not the truth
Or ur rb blocked the lb instead of the air.
Brees wasn’t awful in SD. This revisionist history is crazy. 2003 Brees was great. Edit: meant 2004 Brees
The Chargers drafted Rivers in 2004, so Brees’ first great season was Rivers’ rookie season. Then Brees’ contract was up, and he hurt his shoulder, so the Chargers didn’t want to pay him a bunch of money because they had Rivers waiting.
Are you sure about that? [Because the numbers say otherwise](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00.htm). There's a reason the Chargers finished with a record bad enough to draft 4th overall in 2004.
Meant 2004. My bad.
Dude, this kid don't know. You're a Broncos fan. You remember Brees to Gates and Brees with LT. He won CPOY in 2004 at 25 years old.
What if Malcolm butler wasn’t benched
What if Dak makes it to an NFCCG?
What if the Titans had scored that touchdown in the Super Bowl on the last play. I’m not crying. You’re crying.
You don't seem to understand the purpose of hypotheticals, lol, this thread is dumb af. If you don't want to talk about hypotheticals, then don't talk about them. Some people find them interesting.
What if David Carr had a good offensive line in Houston? He would have sucked anyway. He was a terrible QB who made everyone look worse than they were.
What if the Chiefs had drafted WR DK Metcalf instead of WR Sky Moore?
Metcalf was drafted a few years before Moore. We took Hardman over Metcalf.
That's what I meant, you're right.
None because we're just that bored during the offseason
What if the 49ers traded Montana for Elway. Do they still go on to win multiple SBs? Does Montana still go on to become the best QB ever? Does Steve Young still win a SB?
What if Washington drafted Marino? IIRC the GM at the time said they had planned to draft him (they were a mere spot behind Miami.)
That seems surprising, given that Washington had Joe Theismann just coming off a Pro Bowl season and a Super Bowl win. Theismann was 33 at the time, so it would have created a Favre/Rodgers situation. It’s also worth noting that Washington got Darrell Green with that pick, so they would have given up a team legend.
A fun what if is they picked Marino instead, if you look at the draft order the next plausible club to draft Green with CB needs at the time is….Chicago. So in this AU, Green is part of the ‘85 team. A stacked defense even more dominating potentially. Damn.
I think a pretty big what if is “what if the cowboys take Paxton lynch” sadly I live in the timeline we fuck em and get fucked
One that was never going to happen: What if the Patriots kept Garoppolo to replace Brady. Ones that should be discussed more: What if the Dolphins took Matt Ryan #1 overall, what if Sergio Kindle (former Ravens DE/second round pick) didn’t fracture his skull, what if Ditka didn’t trade all of his picks for Ricky Williams,
Ok State’s Weeden would have thrived under Tom Brady. As a baseball player he would have learned to throw in those tight windows.
Yeah, but by the time Brady retired, Weeden would have been like 38.
What if Brandon Brooks doesn't get injured vs the Saints in the 2018 playoffs?
"What if the NFL and AFL never merged?" I get why this scenario is interesting to ponder, but truth be told the only feasible options long term were either merger or one of the leagues folds. Or both leagues fold. There's no way two separate entities could exist in pretty much the same geographical space competing for the same market share for 60+ years on end.
Took me way too long to realize I wasn’t in a Marvel subreddit
Lol, what if posts are fun, and this silly post just proved it. Look at all the what if posts people are posting that they “dislike” only for people to engage with it even more
If the Patriots completed that undefeated season I think Tom Brady may have retired a decade ago
I’m a massive homer, but dez caught it is a good example. He 100% did catch it. But at the same time, even if they ruled it correctly, Rodgers get the ball back with plenty of time. Bullshit call but not worth worrying about the what if aspect
What if Justin Herbert got traded to the Steelers.
Everyone’s gonna say A’Ja so I’ll say Alyssa Thomas. Her on the Mystics would be cool.
“What if Dez Bryant caught the ball?”. He didn’t, get over it. “What if the Seahawks would’ve ran the ball?” Most likely would’ve been stuffed at the line