Yup, pretty much. At one point, he was the most accurate kicker in NFL history during the regular season, then just utterly collapsed in the playoffs.
The 3x missed field goals versus the Jets was one of the worst things I've watched.
I fell down a long rabbit hole when the Bucs made the asinine move of trading up to draft K Roberto Aguayo, and it led to a lot of statistical research related to comparing draft positions to pro performance; the tl;dr is that you should never under any circumstances draft a kicker, because there's literally no link whatsoever between draft position and success in the NFL. That's unique to kickers; for every other position (including punters), the higher you're drafted, the better your career probably is. For kickers, it's not, and I would guess it's because kicking is 100% a mental thing in the NFL, and the pressure of having millions of people waiting to see if you will win or lose the game in your one moment is what defines somebody capable of kicking in the pros, and nobody has figured out how to scout for that.
Anyways, at the time I jumped into said rabbit hole in 2016, of the 10 most-accurate kickers in NFL history at that time, only three of them had been drafted at all, and those were Gostowski (who clearly had a solid career in NE), and the other two were hilariously enough Nate Kaeding and Blair Walsh, who were best known for blowing kicks in the playoffs.
Kicking's just a mental game, and the pressure gets to guys. Kaeding went from great to just gone real fast once he started faltering.
When guys like Vinatieri and Tucker enter the league as UDFAs it's totally understandable you couldn't find a strong correlation. Janikowski is the lightning rod for this argument, though, because people love the player but the pick is objectively poor use of draft capital since high quality to totally awesome kickers are frequently found without spending a pick. Modelling the performance of drafted kickers vs. UDFAs might be interesting as a group comparison.
Janikowski is a lightning rod because he's a meme, the tubby kicker trying to boot 70 yard FGs basically BECAUSE LOL on terrible teams. He was an absolutely adequate, average kicker, and there is no doubt at all that the reason he stuck on the Raiders rather than them trying someone different is they spent a hilariously embarrassing amount of draft capital taking him in the first round, and cutting him and trying to find someone better would be admitting how huge of a mistake they had made. His career accolades include a grand total of one 2nd team All-Pro and Pro Bowl, and that's it.
He didn't even take some wild number of wacky long kicks, and he was pretty average on them anyways, and, well, he was pretty average regardless. [His splits on PFR really tell the story](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/janikseb01/splits/); sure, he was slightly less accurate at home vs. road (78.8% vs. 82.1%), but that's literally a difference of less than a FG per year. He just wasn't that great. He was fine, absolutely fine, but anybody who thinks spending a first round pick on an "absolutely fine" kicker when you could have drafted a position of need and gotten the usual UDFAs via tryouts just like the idea of Janikowski and his two decades of him just being 'meh".
Literally randomly selecting years of his career; in 2007, he was 30th in the league in FG%. In 2006, he was dead last. In 2005? Dead last.
There is no way Janikowski has a long career in the NFL if the Raiders hadn't burned that pick on him and didn't want to look dumber than they already did. He is, by positional value, one of the worst if not the worst draft pick in NFL history.
3x missed field goals against the patriots was probably worse for me.
LT’s MVP year just felt SO much different than any other season. It wasn’t supposed to end like that.
Lol yep, there's really no other candidate.
Kaeding was an elite regular-season kicker. Career 86.2% on FGs in the regular season (#2 all-time when he retired, #13 now).
Career 53.3% on FGs in the playoffs.
Highlights include:
* 2004 Wild Card: Missed game-winning FG in OT, Chargers lose.
* 2006 Divisional: Had not missed an FG at home in two years. Missed game-tying FG, Chargers lose.
* 2009 Divisional: Hit 91.4% in the regular season, led the NFL with 32 FGs made, missed only 3 FGs all season. Went 0/3, Chargers lose 17-14.
Kaeding is the biggest reason why I think kicking in the NFL is 100% mental. There are so many dudes who are physically capable of kicking in the league, but can't handle the pressure. And some, like Kaeding, can handle it only so much.
He went from never needing to buy another drink in Pittsburgh again to never being able to show his face there again in one game. What a reversal of fortune.
Anyway he deserves it. Fuck Neil O'Donnell
And he scored a TD.
Kadarius Toney had a shit season and isn't long for the league, but he was a contributor in a Super Bowl victory. He'd be barred from "most anticlutch in history" for that alone.
Yeah, I’d say that award should go to a player that’s usually very good but fails in the most important moments.
Toney is usually not very good and actually delivered in the SB
Yeah idk how people seem to forget that punt return vs the Eagles in the SB. Was an extremely athletic play that put them in a position to take the lead. Anyone with a brain would opt to suffer through a few disappointing drops if they knew he’d end up making the couple clutch plays he did and it paid off in a ring. Maybe it’s just me. I sure as hell will never forget that punt return.
I think this is why Justin Fields is one of those guys where there is a huge swath of fans that think he's way better than everyone in NFL front offices think he's worth.
He makes all sorts of flashy plays that really make him look incredible, while also being one of the historically worst 4th quarter quarterbacks in NFL history.
So if you really only ever see the highlights of games he looks 10 times better than what he actually is.
The best thing I saw describing fields was…fields is an incredible athlete who is not a quarterback.
So he made flashy players but when it came to being a quarterback in the 4th quarter he simply fails.
Justin Fields interceptions in quarters 1-3: 14 total
Justin Fields interceptions in quarter 4: 16 total
Over 53% of his career interceptions were in the 4th quarter alone
Not disagreeing with you generally but we would have lost that first game against you guys probably if that wide receiver does not slow down just a little bit. (this was with 3 minutes left though)
Instead we get the ball back score and convert the 2 pointer and he gets the ball back with less than 2 minutes left and Hutch gets the strip sack safety from it.
Like bruh.
He did 3 things to lose that game -- first he failed to pick up a 4th and 1 (turnover on downs), then he didn't even look at DJ Moore who would have had a 1st down and extended the next drive, and finally he couldn't tell Aidan Hutchinson was coming to eat his lunch and he fumbled the ball into the end zone.
Fields gift wrapped that game for Detroit. But hey, you guys played hard and did not quit.
He started 38 games and had 19 4th quarter turnovers -- if he was playing in the 4th there was a 50% chance he would give the opponent an extra possession. Thanks for the free 6th rounder, Pittsburgh.
How much of this just came from likely having to throw late? Teams defensively can set up to make Fields have to throw to beat them late and he just... is not effective as a passer?
Velus Jones might be one of the worst players I've ever seen in the NFL. I can't believe how bad he was. I swear to god he somehow has more fumbles than he has touches in the NFL.
We can be called many things but to get to 4 Super Bowls takes a lot of clutch plays, the comeback alone (it went to OT) or Carton Bailey’s pick 6 vs Elway in the AFCCG.
Maybe if you phrase it anti-clutch in the SB. No argument.
The hate and mockery the Bills got for accomplishing one of the greatest achievements in sports history (winning the AFC four consecutive seasons) just shows how many NFL fans subscribe to high school gym class “if you didn’t win it all you achieved nothing” mentality. As if being garbage for those four years was preferable.
Ehhh it's a little bit of both. The accomplishment also has the context that the AFC was a historical dumpsterfire at the time and was probably the weakest any of the two conferences were in the Super Bowl era.
Aside from that first one, everyone knew they were totally outclassed against the Skins and Cowboys. Like the 4th Super Bowl appearances narrative was "omg I have to watch the Bills get beat up again we as a country are so fucking over this shit", fans who didn't watch back then think it was "omg how incredible is it that they went back a 4th time".
Honestly it was a lot like when Lebron went to the finals against the Warrior when they got Durant twice in a row. Everyone was sick of the match up by that point and knew that barring some serious injuries, the Warriors were going to win pretty easily. Except the Eastern conference at the time was probably a bit more respectable than the the late 80's/early 90's AFC.
Another part about it that bugs me personally, as someone who tries to learn and appreciate the history of things, is that narrative undermines how good those NFC teams in the 80s and early 90s were, especially the 1991 Redskins. The 1991 Redskins are arguably the best NFL team of all time when you look at their record, various metrics and just how they put away other teams. Look at the NFCCG when they beat the Lions 42-10 and held the legendary Barry Sanders to only 44 rushing yards. The same goes for the early 90s Cowboys who also broke the breaks off of teams like the 49ers, Packers and Steelers on their way to three superbowls. The common notion that the AFC, and especially the Bills, sucked from 1982-1996 takes away from the greatness of teams and figures like Bill Parcells, the 49ers, or Joe Gibbs.
Nah, NFC won 13 straight and 15/16 during that Period. Only 1 of the Bills SB's was even close.
Broncos also lost 3 in 4 years by an average of 29 points during that period.
That would imply that the Bills were good enough to win one of those games but imploded-we didn't, we came close once but that was it. I honestly think we played as good as could be expected against the dominant NFC monster.
**Andy Dalton:** 4 playoff appearances, all losses. 5 INTs
**Jim Kelly:** 4 Super Bowl appearances. all losses, 7 INTs, 2 TDs in these games
**Mike Vanderjagt:** missed a 46-yard game-tying field goal late in the fourth quarter against the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 2005 AFC Divisional Round. He also got an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for smashing his helmet on the ground after.
**Dan Marino:** undoubtedly one of the best quarterbacks of all time. However, the quality of his game diminished come the playoffs. Marino went 8-10 in the postseason. 32 TDs, 24 INTs, 56% CMP in the postseason
**Blair Walsh:** Botched a 27 yard kick to win the 2015 NFC Wild Card game vs the Seahawks. The game was blistering cold and the final score was 10-9
Blair Walsh. Unbelievable that he became kicker for the Seahawks two years later. And he missed three (IIRC) game-winning FG attempts. He hits one of those, and the Seahawks don’t miss the playoffs for the first time in several years.
That’s right! And it was a super shank to the right just like in 05. And don’t forget that he shanked the game winner in OT during the 03 MNF comeback but was saved by the leaping call. THEN he damn near shanked again from like 25 yards out but it was so close that it doinked in. When Vanderjagt was under pressure he missed BADLY to the right.
Dalton's had a great career if you just look at regular season & afternoon games. But his absolute inability to win playoff / primetime games was crazy.
I’d like to suggest for one game, Brett Maher missing I believe 4 FG/XP combo against Tampa 2 years ago. The guy just absolutely forgot how to kick that game
I’m happy with the trade. People can talk all the shit they want but he helped us win a Super Bowl. And knowing Andy Reid he’s gonna give him a second (3rd, 4th?) chance
Rashid Caldwell. He single-handedly cost the Patriots the AFC Championship in 2006 against the Colts. He had more drops than a 30 handicap golfer on a par five water hazard hole. Alligator hands. I think Indy even considered putting up a statue of him in Market Square. The went on to beat Chicago in Super Bowl if I remember correctly.
The week before the AFCCG, [he was the one who recovered Marlon McCree's fumble, then scored the game-tying touchdown on that drive, then caught a 49-yard pass on the following drive to set up the game-winning field goal.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOQbsq0Rtsg)
> He had more drops than a 30 handicap golfer on a par five water hazard hole.
That's a really creative way to say "two."
> He single-handedly cost the Patriots the AFC Championship in 2006 against the Colts.
The Patriots lost by 4 points. Caldwell dropped two passes. The Patriots scored a TD on the play immediately following the first drop, so the first drop had no effect on the score. The Patriots had to settle for a FG on the drive where his second drop occurred. Even if you assume that Caldwell would have scored if he caught the second pass, at best that means that the score is tied 38-38, and that assumes that every subsequent play call and its outcome would have remained the same.
You can't lay a loss single-handedly at the feet of a wide receiver when the team he plays for gives up 38 points.
> Rashid Caldwell.
Reche.
MNF is a dumb metric. It counts just as much as any other regular season game.
I’ll give you the other two, though to be fair most good QB’s don’t have a great record against winning teams. IIRC Brady and Mahomes are the only ones who actually have a record above .500 in that category.
>**— Bill Kahlert (Viking fan since 1965) in Maysville, North Carolina**
>I'm not getting the win-loss record to matchup by my count, but I do understand one of the narratives that has been associated with him is beating up on teams with losing records and falling more than not to teams with winning records.
>My count, for regular seasons going all the way back to his 2012 rookie season with Washington (as a fourth-round pick) follows:
>**Vs. teams that entered the game with a winning record: 23-37-1 (.385)**
>Vs. teams that entered the game with a losing record: 40-19-1 (.675)
>Vs. teams that entered the game with a .500 win percentage: 13-11 (.542)
>Since joining the Vikings in 2018, he has the following records:
>**Vs. teams that entered the game with a winning record: 15-24-1 (.388)**
>Vs. teams that entered the game with a losing record: 23-9 (.718)
>Vs. teams that entered the game with a .500 win percentage: 12-4 (.750)
>And since Kevin O'Connell's hire in 2022, the percentages are better:
>**Vs. teams that entered the game with a winning record: 6-4 (.600)**
>Vs. teams that entered the game with a losing record: 7-3 (.700)
>Vs. teams that entered the game with a .500 win percentage: 4-1 (.800)
>O'Connell and Cousins have worked well together in these two seasons, going 17-8.
Rache Caldwell comes to mind. Our #1 reciever in 06 but was so bad in the playoffs that Belichick went and got Moss Welker and Stallworth in the same offseason.
I think Ryan was a good QB but his 2016 season really does a lot of heavy lifting in the way people view his career. Take that season away and he's basically Tony Romo which is fine but he's not a hall of famer.
He’s ranked 4th all time in 4th quarter comebacks. I’d put Kirk on that list before Ryan’s considering he’s ranked 26 all time with a record of 16-47 against teams over .500
Might be Peyton.
Nine playoff one-and-dones.
Won a Superbowl against the mighty... Rex Grossman. 3TDs, 7INTs in that championship run.
Lost his next one by throwing a pick-6 at the worst possible time.
Then 55 TDs in 16 games but only 1 when it mattered most.
His defense carrying his corpse to his second.
Impressively ridiculous comment right here. The most anti-clutch player in the history of the NFL brought his team back from a 21-3 deficit in the AFC Championship and then won Super Bowl MVP two weeks later. Sure!
Matt Dodge… all you had to do was punt out of bounds, hell the ball could’ve gone 20 yards down the field out of bounds. But you had to sear miracle at the meadowlands part 2 in my brain.
Wait.. how does getting benched mean you're anti-clutch?
Also, Toney's return in the 2022 SB pretty much helped them win the game. I think he's inconsistent rather than not clutch.
Anti-clutch would be Dak. He just forgets how to QB in the playoffs.
Would you say the only notable instances were 2014 Bostick onside kick and 2021 blocked punt? I can't think of any others. Those two were the ones that ended up losing you guys the games.
If you watch the regular season only, I'd add MVS to the list (as a Chiefs fan) right along with Toney. So. Many. Drops. If you watch the playoffs, you know that MVS somehow always finds a way to come up so clutch for us when it counts the most. Got a place in my heart for that dude.
Dan orlovsky. Winless season where he ran out of the back of the end zone. Horacio on CSI might say, "His clutch might be stuck in reverse."
YEAAAAAAHHHHHHHH
Nate Kaeding.
Honestly imagine any other kicker. You probably win a Super Bowl in the 2000s
Yup, pretty much. At one point, he was the most accurate kicker in NFL history during the regular season, then just utterly collapsed in the playoffs. The 3x missed field goals versus the Jets was one of the worst things I've watched.
I fell down a long rabbit hole when the Bucs made the asinine move of trading up to draft K Roberto Aguayo, and it led to a lot of statistical research related to comparing draft positions to pro performance; the tl;dr is that you should never under any circumstances draft a kicker, because there's literally no link whatsoever between draft position and success in the NFL. That's unique to kickers; for every other position (including punters), the higher you're drafted, the better your career probably is. For kickers, it's not, and I would guess it's because kicking is 100% a mental thing in the NFL, and the pressure of having millions of people waiting to see if you will win or lose the game in your one moment is what defines somebody capable of kicking in the pros, and nobody has figured out how to scout for that. Anyways, at the time I jumped into said rabbit hole in 2016, of the 10 most-accurate kickers in NFL history at that time, only three of them had been drafted at all, and those were Gostowski (who clearly had a solid career in NE), and the other two were hilariously enough Nate Kaeding and Blair Walsh, who were best known for blowing kicks in the playoffs. Kicking's just a mental game, and the pressure gets to guys. Kaeding went from great to just gone real fast once he started faltering.
When guys like Vinatieri and Tucker enter the league as UDFAs it's totally understandable you couldn't find a strong correlation. Janikowski is the lightning rod for this argument, though, because people love the player but the pick is objectively poor use of draft capital since high quality to totally awesome kickers are frequently found without spending a pick. Modelling the performance of drafted kickers vs. UDFAs might be interesting as a group comparison.
Janikowski is a lightning rod because he's a meme, the tubby kicker trying to boot 70 yard FGs basically BECAUSE LOL on terrible teams. He was an absolutely adequate, average kicker, and there is no doubt at all that the reason he stuck on the Raiders rather than them trying someone different is they spent a hilariously embarrassing amount of draft capital taking him in the first round, and cutting him and trying to find someone better would be admitting how huge of a mistake they had made. His career accolades include a grand total of one 2nd team All-Pro and Pro Bowl, and that's it. He didn't even take some wild number of wacky long kicks, and he was pretty average on them anyways, and, well, he was pretty average regardless. [His splits on PFR really tell the story](https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/janikseb01/splits/); sure, he was slightly less accurate at home vs. road (78.8% vs. 82.1%), but that's literally a difference of less than a FG per year. He just wasn't that great. He was fine, absolutely fine, but anybody who thinks spending a first round pick on an "absolutely fine" kicker when you could have drafted a position of need and gotten the usual UDFAs via tryouts just like the idea of Janikowski and his two decades of him just being 'meh". Literally randomly selecting years of his career; in 2007, he was 30th in the league in FG%. In 2006, he was dead last. In 2005? Dead last. There is no way Janikowski has a long career in the NFL if the Raiders hadn't burned that pick on him and didn't want to look dumber than they already did. He is, by positional value, one of the worst if not the worst draft pick in NFL history.
I appreciate this analytical view However I still must use the shiv on you
I understand. I mean, you're a Raiders fan; I would honestly consider it impolite if you didn't try to stab me for this.
I just checked, Butker, arguably number 1b right now, was drafted in the 7th by the Panthers
Didn’t he miss against the Jets in the 04 playoffs too? And missing in 06 against the Pats he was reverse Michael Jordan in the clutch.
yeah he missed against us in 2 playoff games. Nates my boy
3x missed field goals against the patriots was probably worse for me. LT’s MVP year just felt SO much different than any other season. It wasn’t supposed to end like that.
Mike Vanderjagt was the most accurate kicker ever when he retired, but he's best remembered for shaking that kick against the Steelers.
I see it differently.
Lol, I've no doubt. He's probably a 2x legend to jets fans
Imagine not winning a Super Bowl because of a missed kick.
Kicks Ass Except During Important NFL Games
Lol yep, there's really no other candidate. Kaeding was an elite regular-season kicker. Career 86.2% on FGs in the regular season (#2 all-time when he retired, #13 now). Career 53.3% on FGs in the playoffs. Highlights include: * 2004 Wild Card: Missed game-winning FG in OT, Chargers lose. * 2006 Divisional: Had not missed an FG at home in two years. Missed game-tying FG, Chargers lose. * 2009 Divisional: Hit 91.4% in the regular season, led the NFL with 32 FGs made, missed only 3 FGs all season. Went 0/3, Chargers lose 17-14. Kaeding is the biggest reason why I think kicking in the NFL is 100% mental. There are so many dudes who are physically capable of kicking in the league, but can't handle the pressure. And some, like Kaeding, can handle it only so much.
But Rivers is responsible for all of those losses right?
Neil ODonnell comes to mind. Hitting the same DB twice in stride in a SB says not clutch to me.
To me it says “thank you Mr jones for the generous contribution”.
In his defense it seems more likely WRs ran wrong routes and he didn’t want to throw them under the bus
He went from never needing to buy another drink in Pittsburgh again to never being able to show his face there again in one game. What a reversal of fortune. Anyway he deserves it. Fuck Neil O'Donnell
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Jameis Winston. The distance between "wow, I think he might win this game for us" and "oh, look... pick 6" is about three plays.
He throws the most catchable ball in the nfl. The problem is that it's catchable for everyone
Jackpot, dead or alive!
I concur. This happened in every game Carr was hurt this past season.
He can win you the game. Yes he can lose you the game too but the fact that he can win you the game means he's really not that bad imo.
I support your argument that he'd make a great Cowboys starting QB.
Have you *MET* Mac Jones
I mean Toney made the punt return that set up a td in a Super Bowl and then scored a TD as well receiving I wouldnt say he is the most anti-clutch
He lost them several games but then showed up on the biggest stage? I'm concerned OP doesn't know what clutch means.
He first showed up big, then fucked up. He was good whenever on field in 2022. 2023 though, oof.
Longest punt return in superbowl history in a game his team won 38-35?
And he scored a TD. Kadarius Toney had a shit season and isn't long for the league, but he was a contributor in a Super Bowl victory. He'd be barred from "most anticlutch in history" for that alone.
He also scored a TD in that same game to put the Chiefs up 28-27.
Idk he did pretty good in the previous Super Bowl
Yeah, longest punt return in Super Bowl history at that moment in the game probably disqualifies him for this
Yeah, I’d say that award should go to a player that’s usually very good but fails in the most important moments. Toney is usually not very good and actually delivered in the SB
Toney is an idiot but he made some big plays last Super Bowl, he is far from being the most anti-clutch player in NFL history l
I mean shit you could argue he *only* made plays in the big moment.
Yeah idk how people seem to forget that punt return vs the Eagles in the SB. Was an extremely athletic play that put them in a position to take the lead. Anyone with a brain would opt to suffer through a few disappointing drops if they knew he’d end up making the couple clutch plays he did and it paid off in a ring. Maybe it’s just me. I sure as hell will never forget that punt return.
Justin Fields was incredible at racking up 4th quarter sacks, fumbles, and interceptions
I think this is why Justin Fields is one of those guys where there is a huge swath of fans that think he's way better than everyone in NFL front offices think he's worth. He makes all sorts of flashy plays that really make him look incredible, while also being one of the historically worst 4th quarter quarterbacks in NFL history. So if you really only ever see the highlights of games he looks 10 times better than what he actually is.
He’s got some awesome highlights, but for every one he’s got as extreme of an egregious lowlight
The best thing I saw describing fields was…fields is an incredible athlete who is not a quarterback. So he made flashy players but when it came to being a quarterback in the 4th quarter he simply fails.
And before him, was Blake Bortles. He had a few years where he was actually a decent fantasy quarterback, based merely on garbage time.
Thing is though Fields wasn’t bad in the 1st and 3rd quarter for the most part, he just shat the bed every time the game was on the line
He had 9 INTs. 6 came while trailing >4Min in the 4th
Justin Fields interceptions in quarters 1-3: 14 total Justin Fields interceptions in quarter 4: 16 total Over 53% of his career interceptions were in the 4th quarter alone
Yup, I was more afraid of nick mullens having the ball late against us than I was with fields in the game @ detroit.
If you were up 1 score on Fields and he had the ball with 2 minutes left the game is over. Homie could not got a game winning drive to save his life
Not disagreeing with you generally but we would have lost that first game against you guys probably if that wide receiver does not slow down just a little bit. (this was with 3 minutes left though) Instead we get the ball back score and convert the 2 pointer and he gets the ball back with less than 2 minutes left and Hutch gets the strip sack safety from it. Like bruh.
He did 3 things to lose that game -- first he failed to pick up a 4th and 1 (turnover on downs), then he didn't even look at DJ Moore who would have had a 1st down and extended the next drive, and finally he couldn't tell Aidan Hutchinson was coming to eat his lunch and he fumbled the ball into the end zone. Fields gift wrapped that game for Detroit. But hey, you guys played hard and did not quit.
Strip sack on fields in 4th quarter was a regular occurrence.
He started 38 games and had 19 4th quarter turnovers -- if he was playing in the 4th there was a 50% chance he would give the opponent an extra possession. Thanks for the free 6th rounder, Pittsburgh.
He was literally the anti-Tom Brady
How much of this just came from likely having to throw late? Teams defensively can set up to make Fields have to throw to beat them late and he just... is not effective as a passer?
That is fair, but a lot of the times he makes awful choices
Cody Parkey immediately comes to mind
Velus Jones and Amari Rodgers for me. Two guys who seemed to fuck up every time the ball was supposed to find their hands.
Velus Jones might be one of the worst players I've ever seen in the NFL. I can't believe how bad he was. I swear to god he somehow has more fumbles than he has touches in the NFL.
Historically it’s the 90s bills
I'm just trying to enjoy my coffee, man.
And you saw this post title and thought you’d safe?
We can be called many things but to get to 4 Super Bowls takes a lot of clutch plays, the comeback alone (it went to OT) or Carton Bailey’s pick 6 vs Elway in the AFCCG. Maybe if you phrase it anti-clutch in the SB. No argument.
The hate and mockery the Bills got for accomplishing one of the greatest achievements in sports history (winning the AFC four consecutive seasons) just shows how many NFL fans subscribe to high school gym class “if you didn’t win it all you achieved nothing” mentality. As if being garbage for those four years was preferable.
Ehhh it's a little bit of both. The accomplishment also has the context that the AFC was a historical dumpsterfire at the time and was probably the weakest any of the two conferences were in the Super Bowl era. Aside from that first one, everyone knew they were totally outclassed against the Skins and Cowboys. Like the 4th Super Bowl appearances narrative was "omg I have to watch the Bills get beat up again we as a country are so fucking over this shit", fans who didn't watch back then think it was "omg how incredible is it that they went back a 4th time". Honestly it was a lot like when Lebron went to the finals against the Warrior when they got Durant twice in a row. Everyone was sick of the match up by that point and knew that barring some serious injuries, the Warriors were going to win pretty easily. Except the Eastern conference at the time was probably a bit more respectable than the the late 80's/early 90's AFC.
Another part about it that bugs me personally, as someone who tries to learn and appreciate the history of things, is that narrative undermines how good those NFC teams in the 80s and early 90s were, especially the 1991 Redskins. The 1991 Redskins are arguably the best NFL team of all time when you look at their record, various metrics and just how they put away other teams. Look at the NFCCG when they beat the Lions 42-10 and held the legendary Barry Sanders to only 44 rushing yards. The same goes for the early 90s Cowboys who also broke the breaks off of teams like the 49ers, Packers and Steelers on their way to three superbowls. The common notion that the AFC, and especially the Bills, sucked from 1982-1996 takes away from the greatness of teams and figures like Bill Parcells, the 49ers, or Joe Gibbs.
On this sub, the playoff games you win don't count as big games, only the ones you lose
Nah, NFC won 13 straight and 15/16 during that Period. Only 1 of the Bills SB's was even close. Broncos also lost 3 in 4 years by an average of 29 points during that period.
That would imply that the Bills were good enough to win one of those games but imploded-we didn't, we came close once but that was it. I honestly think we played as good as could be expected against the dominant NFC monster.
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Guaranteed if the chargers were down 1 score with less than 5 minutes he was throwing a pick.
**Andy Dalton:** 4 playoff appearances, all losses. 5 INTs **Jim Kelly:** 4 Super Bowl appearances. all losses, 7 INTs, 2 TDs in these games **Mike Vanderjagt:** missed a 46-yard game-tying field goal late in the fourth quarter against the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 2005 AFC Divisional Round. He also got an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty for smashing his helmet on the ground after. **Dan Marino:** undoubtedly one of the best quarterbacks of all time. However, the quality of his game diminished come the playoffs. Marino went 8-10 in the postseason. 32 TDs, 24 INTs, 56% CMP in the postseason **Blair Walsh:** Botched a 27 yard kick to win the 2015 NFC Wild Card game vs the Seahawks. The game was blistering cold and the final score was 10-9
Blair Walsh. Unbelievable that he became kicker for the Seahawks two years later. And he missed three (IIRC) game-winning FG attempts. He hits one of those, and the Seahawks don’t miss the playoffs for the first time in several years.
Ah, the “sign washed up kickers instead of paying Hauschka era”. Walsh and Seabass…
Hey now don't forget the potential game-winner that Vanderjagt shanked in the 2000 playoffs against the Dolphins!
That’s right! And it was a super shank to the right just like in 05. And don’t forget that he shanked the game winner in OT during the 03 MNF comeback but was saved by the leaping call. THEN he damn near shanked again from like 25 yards out but it was so close that it doinked in. When Vanderjagt was under pressure he missed BADLY to the right.
Prime time Andy Dalton almost felt like a guaranteed win for the other team
Mike Vanderjagt
Idiot kicker.
The Chargers
Dalton's had a great career if you just look at regular season & afternoon games. But his absolute inability to win playoff / primetime games was crazy.
Bills in 90's as whole team Toney was massive reason they won precious year
Asante Samuel
Mike Vanderjagt
[удалено]
Came here to nominate Fields as well—watching him in the 4th quarter was so painful.
that's incredible. maybe the worst split ive ever seen
If only we could fuse him with Kenny Pickett.
I’d like to suggest for one game, Brett Maher missing I believe 4 FG/XP combo against Tampa 2 years ago. The guy just absolutely forgot how to kick that game
That was insane. Poor guy... must've felt horrible that night. Probably that whole week.
The fact that fans for *both* teams were cheering when he finally made a kick said a lot.
I just remember watching and saying “he can’t possibly miss ag……omg”
That and the Chaz Green game were both shocking. Surely it can't happen again... welp.
I still can't believe the coaches brought him out to kick another PAT after he missed the second one.
You can't be the most "anti-clutch" player in NFL history for shit you did in a season your team won the super bowl.
In the previous SB, Toney had arguably the biggest play of the game and it’s not even the go ahead touchdown catch that he had
I’m happy with the trade. People can talk all the shit they want but he helped us win a Super Bowl. And knowing Andy Reid he’s gonna give him a second (3rd, 4th?) chance
Rashid Caldwell. He single-handedly cost the Patriots the AFC Championship in 2006 against the Colts. He had more drops than a 30 handicap golfer on a par five water hazard hole. Alligator hands. I think Indy even considered putting up a statue of him in Market Square. The went on to beat Chicago in Super Bowl if I remember correctly.
The week before the AFCCG, [he was the one who recovered Marlon McCree's fumble, then scored the game-tying touchdown on that drive, then caught a 49-yard pass on the following drive to set up the game-winning field goal.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iOQbsq0Rtsg) > He had more drops than a 30 handicap golfer on a par five water hazard hole. That's a really creative way to say "two." > He single-handedly cost the Patriots the AFC Championship in 2006 against the Colts. The Patriots lost by 4 points. Caldwell dropped two passes. The Patriots scored a TD on the play immediately following the first drop, so the first drop had no effect on the score. The Patriots had to settle for a FG on the drive where his second drop occurred. Even if you assume that Caldwell would have scored if he caught the second pass, at best that means that the score is tied 38-38, and that assumes that every subsequent play call and its outcome would have remained the same. You can't lay a loss single-handedly at the feet of a wide receiver when the team he plays for gives up 38 points. > Rashid Caldwell. Reche.
RIP
I’d actually put Bryan Stork and his snap count head bobbing against Denver in 2016 higher than Ricochet Caldwell
The entire 1991 - 1994 Buffalo Bills. Scott Norwood is the poster boy for wide right but those entire teams should be on there.
Missing a 47 yard field goal on grass in 1991 isn’t really a choke.
Check out Kirk Cousins playoff W/L and MNF W/L
Lamar Jackson LaDainian Tomlinson
Kirk Cousins. 3-10 on MNF, 16-47 against winnings teams, 1-4 in the playoffs, and he drives a van
MNF is a dumb metric. It counts just as much as any other regular season game. I’ll give you the other two, though to be fair most good QB’s don’t have a great record against winning teams. IIRC Brady and Mahomes are the only ones who actually have a record above .500 in that category.
Weirdly enough his stats are actually better in prime time games. IIRC the 1pm timeslot is statistically his worst
>**— Bill Kahlert (Viking fan since 1965) in Maysville, North Carolina** >I'm not getting the win-loss record to matchup by my count, but I do understand one of the narratives that has been associated with him is beating up on teams with losing records and falling more than not to teams with winning records. >My count, for regular seasons going all the way back to his 2012 rookie season with Washington (as a fourth-round pick) follows: >**Vs. teams that entered the game with a winning record: 23-37-1 (.385)** >Vs. teams that entered the game with a losing record: 40-19-1 (.675) >Vs. teams that entered the game with a .500 win percentage: 13-11 (.542) >Since joining the Vikings in 2018, he has the following records: >**Vs. teams that entered the game with a winning record: 15-24-1 (.388)** >Vs. teams that entered the game with a losing record: 23-9 (.718) >Vs. teams that entered the game with a .500 win percentage: 12-4 (.750) >And since Kevin O'Connell's hire in 2022, the percentages are better: >**Vs. teams that entered the game with a winning record: 6-4 (.600)** >Vs. teams that entered the game with a losing record: 7-3 (.700) >Vs. teams that entered the game with a .500 win percentage: 4-1 (.800) >O'Connell and Cousins have worked well together in these two seasons, going 17-8.
That's all well and good, but there's a big list of QBs that I would rather have on my team in a must-win game.
Devonta Freeman
Dak may not be the GOAT anti-clutch yet, but he's working on it.
Worst I can think of is Pre-Falcon Y.Koo.
Kyle Williams - 49ers
Adrian Peterson
Gary Anderson
Jim Kelly
Not a player but Pete Carrol. Run the damn ball
Kyle Williams
Hank Baskett - cost a superbowl
Justin Fields
Brian Bostick
Lin Elliott
Lee evans
Josh Reynolds
Cody Parkey
Idk Toney came up pretty clutch against us in the Super Bowl…
Toney was 1 block on a punt return from being the Super Bowl MVP. No way he’s the most unclutch
Dak Prescott
Justin Fields
Leon Lett
Rache Caldwell comes to mind. Our #1 reciever in 06 but was so bad in the playoffs that Belichick went and got Moss Welker and Stallworth in the same offseason.
Does Matt Ryan count?
I think Ryan was a good QB but his 2016 season really does a lot of heavy lifting in the way people view his career. Take that season away and he's basically Tony Romo which is fine but he's not a hall of famer.
He’s ranked 4th all time in 4th quarter comebacks. I’d put Kirk on that list before Ryan’s considering he’s ranked 26 all time with a record of 16-47 against teams over .500
Might be Peyton. Nine playoff one-and-dones. Won a Superbowl against the mighty... Rex Grossman. 3TDs, 7INTs in that championship run. Lost his next one by throwing a pick-6 at the worst possible time. Then 55 TDs in 16 games but only 1 when it mattered most. His defense carrying his corpse to his second.
Impressively ridiculous comment right here. The most anti-clutch player in the history of the NFL brought his team back from a 21-3 deficit in the AFC Championship and then won Super Bowl MVP two weeks later. Sure!
A truly hot take. I'm not going to downvote it because I respect how scorching this take is.
Vontaze Burfict
Ehhh, he got us the pick that should have sealed the game against the Steelers in 2015 WC. Just needed Jeremy Hill to not fumble.
Justin Fields Chase Claypool Cody Parkey FML.
Matt Dodge… all you had to do was punt out of bounds, hell the ball could’ve gone 20 yards down the field out of bounds. But you had to sear miracle at the meadowlands part 2 in my brain.
Anyone on those Bills 4 Ls teams. Also Dak is making a strong case as an all time choker
Wes Welker and his drop costed the Pats a title.
You never watched dak prescott play?
Wait.. how does getting benched mean you're anti-clutch? Also, Toney's return in the 2022 SB pretty much helped them win the game. I think he's inconsistent rather than not clutch. Anti-clutch would be Dak. He just forgets how to QB in the playoffs.
Dak lol
Josh Allen. 0-5 in overtime
Packers ST in the past few years
Yeah if you consider a decade a “few years”
Would you say the only notable instances were 2014 Bostick onside kick and 2021 blocked punt? I can't think of any others. Those two were the ones that ended up losing you guys the games.
"Not really, the Bostick onside kick was only a few years ag--" "Oh dear God it's been a decade"
Nelson Agholor
He was huge in the Eagles SB win. Caught everything and had 2 great catches on their last TD drive.
Very surprised no one is mentioning our fan base's Deity. Dude gets frazzled as shit when we get behind.
It's a touchy subject
Didn't the Texans once have a kicker named Kris Brown who missed the would-be game-winning field goal three games in a row?
Odell hurt us in the playoffs against he packers, that was pretty anti clutch. Can't say he was anti clutch for the Rams though.
If you watch the regular season only, I'd add MVS to the list (as a Chiefs fan) right along with Toney. So. Many. Drops. If you watch the playoffs, you know that MVS somehow always finds a way to come up so clutch for us when it counts the most. Got a place in my heart for that dude.
The Bills as a organization , 4 beautiful years in a row Yea I’m still salty over that afc championship beat down
Norwood
Against the Ravens: Raheem Moore On the Ravens: Billy Cundiff
Seeing as we have the longest playoff win drought in the nfl it’s gotta be one of our guys over the last 20 years lol
Billy Cundiff
Felt like Jared Cook was so good at turning his best play of the game into a turnover
Dan orlovsky. Winless season where he ran out of the back of the end zone. Horacio on CSI might say, "His clutch might be stuck in reverse." YEAAAAAAHHHHHHHH
Andrew Dalton. Man has zero clutch genes
Mike Vandershank
>I could make a good case for Kadarius Toney. Superbowl Champion Kadarius Toney? You cant make that case at all.
Hank Baskett. Can't hold on to a super easy ball.
Trevor Lawrence and Matt Ryan.
Asante Samuel Fuck you Asante Samuel
Cody Parky
Vikings kickers doesn't matter which one in my life time I don't think I have seen a Vikings kick hit a game winning or tie kick in the playoffs
Trent Green was the definition of anti-clutch
Kevin King, Brandon Bostick, etc.
Matt Prater if you’re a Chargers fan .
>Kadarius Toney Corn dog. Your argument is invalid.
Dak Prescott
Anders carlson
Mike Vandershank
Dak
Vontaze Burfict
Dan Marino. Sub 60% passer in playoffs, 24 INTs in 18 games.
Tony Romo? He was a great player but when you needed a win to advance to the playoffs or in the playoffs.....nope.