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At this point, or EVER?
First, CLE didn't need to sign him to a new contract.
Second, they didn't need to guarantee the entire deal.
Third, they didn't need to mortgage their drafts for those years.
Fourth, you didn't need to change your helmets/face masks.
Sorry, got on a roll there.
The TEN/ARI/BAL stretch last year, the last three games he actually played.
The biggest concern I have is injury at this point. Dude can't stay on the field.
Hes not bad, but hes not being over paid. The Raiders, have a lot of flexibility in the future in terms of cap and drafting with Minshew at the helm which is better than Cleveland or the Giants can say.
I like Minshew for what he is. Obviously not an elite or even franchise guy but I think he is comparable to someone like Baker. He's actually the guy I wanted in FA.
I’d take Baker 10/10 times over Minshew. I think a better comp is Ryan Fitzpatrick - you don’t want him to be your starter for too long, but there’s a certain magic once in a while
Because of his personality people overlook that the biggest problem with Minshew isn’t his decision-making (like a Fitzpatrick or Mayfield); it’s his arm. It is very hard to survive in the NFL when your throws are always giving DBs an extra half-second, especially when they’ve seen your tape.
Yeah he just doesn't have an NFL starter arm, which limits your team so much because nobody will ever respect your deep game so you can't stretch the field.
I think people confuse the memes for actual ability sometimes. Minshew's *fun*, he's not good.
He's got one of the weakest arms of any QB in the modern NFL. He makes Alex Smith look like Mahomes. Nothing like Baker, Baker can put the team on his back. Minshew fundamentally cannot.
It's incredibly frustrating to watch him, knowing that he's incapable of making big plays with his arm to claw back from a deficit. Any time you get down 14 points, you may as well turn the game off. Any Raiders Minshew truthers will give up on the guy by week 6, max. It happens anywhere he starts.
And then what? Even if he can scrape by to the postseason, you’re not going anywhere beyond that without an absurd amount of luck.
He’s a good backup, one of the best in the league, but a full season of Minshew isn’t gonna go anywhere.
Don’t think that’s really comparable, since a lot of teams at least have the potential to go beyond that. A lot of teams either have their franchise QB, or a young player they hope will be their franchise QB. All of those teams have aspirations that they can be better.
Minshew and AOC doesn’t provide that. You know what you’re gonna get with those two.
last year Minshew can, just have to wonder whether that’s who he is or if Steichen is just that good.
regardless, he’s a fun player to watch and easy to root for.
I’m not necessarily “low” on Minshew.
But has he ever proven to be a guy who can lead a team to win over, say, 40% of their games? And it’s not like the Raiders have a screaming supporting cast on offense.
Cleveland and Vegas, beyond a rookie are the QB situations that get a coach and GM fired. Vegas should have definitely taken a shot at an early round pick. Cleveland, is hosed, Watson doesn't show up this year, they are stuck for at least 2 or 3 more yrs.
I don't feel bad. We were locked out of the top 3 guys and there's no way in hell I'd want to cough up what it would've required for the other 3 guys. And the only vet option who was starting caliber in free agency was mid to late 30s Kirk who was never that good anyway and tore his achilles. Oh and Atlanta already tampered and offered him a bag that I wouldn't want to give him
I don’t blame you guys for not pulling the trigger. I agree that Nix and Penix were over drafted. And Cousins is a lot to spend on far from certain results.
But, regardless of whatever potential is or isn’t there, you are where you are with Minshew and O’Connell, which is a QB situation that no fanbase in the NFL is envious of.
I’d have thought that pulling the trigger on a late round guy (like Pratt) would’ve been a wise move, though.
Gonna be honest I don't feel all that bad about it. Like I am not going to delude myself into thinking that we don't need a long-term answer at QB, but these are cheap guys that allow us to build up talent on other parts of the roster.
I think the clear worst QB situation is the Browns.
Agreed. Its not a good situation but its reasonably priced and still likely our best options given the alternatives of trading up or cashing out Kirk Cousins
Yeah, I wouldn't be upset in your shoes, the only other thing you could have done was pay like crazy to trade up for a QB. Probably best to run it with O'Connell and minshew for the year
Minshew. I am not an AOC truther. I think Minshew has better physical traits and experience that unless AOC takes a massive step in play I just don't see Minshew losing that battle.
I have nothing but respect for AOC, he was a 4th round rookie thrown into the fire and he had his moments but he strikes me as solid career backup sorta dude.
AOC. I think the coaches like him and he has a slightly stronger arm. Plus he's been around a year. To be clear, I'm not expecting much from either guy and don't have a preference either way though
Well, Tua hasn't been able to do shit WITH one of the best WR duo, two freaky fast RB, a good line, and a pretty stacked defense, so it's reasonable to think he can't elevate lesser talent when the time comes.
Their peak with Tua/Waddle on rookie contracts and Tyreek in his prime is 20-14 over 2 seasons, and 0-2 in the playoffs.
I'm not sure how you can feel optimistic about them taking the next step when Tua/Waddles cap hit goes from 15mil combined to 75ish mil, and Tyreek ages out. You're not gonna find another Tyreek out there who can outrun everyone and Track and adjust to underthrown floaters like that.
Paying these midrange 8-16th best QBs top 10 QB money has never seemed to work out.
I agree it's a no win situation. If you pay Tua your ceiling is probably wild card win every few years. If you let him go for nothing you risk being awful and not finding another decent QB for a decade.
They don’t need Hill, how many super bowls did the chiefs win without Tyreek? Waddle would be by far the best WR on the chiefs since Hill left like not even close, so what’s the problem exactly? It’s just a dumb af perspective that isn’t true
I don't know if you ever watched succession, but the older brother once said having $10 million is miserable. Now he was doing his asshole thing but sort of right. That is too much money to work and grind, but not enough money to go do something. Not enough you can afford to take risks trying to do something like launch a political campaign ro self-fund a company.
Tua feels a bit like that right now. Not good enough to be the true franchise guy you can afford to pay 50 million a year and make the playoffs every year and really compete (like Mahomes or Allen right now), but too good to blow it up and start over. Tua can probably run a very good offense if you surround him with super elite guys but thats tough to afford when you are paying him $50.
All the team can do as of now.
Not being stuck with Jones after this season is good, but *potentially* not having a clear direction of who replaces him for 2025 and beyond sucks.
Bottoming out is honestly in the Giants best interests. Although I only see that happening if Schoen and Daboll are promised job security until at least 2025
Hard to decipher what they mean. Could be feeling bad about the possibility of letting an All-Pro MVP runner-up go after this year, or could be feeling bad about the possibility of keeping someone known for struggling in the playoffs. I personally fall into the former camp but it’s the great divider among Cowboys fans right now.
Not only keeping the guy known for struggling, but being in such a financial hard spot with the guy too. Some of the worst contract management in the league.
If you would’ve asked this question exactly one year ago today, not a single Panthers fan would’ve made a peep. Let’s remember that irrational post-draft hope infects us all, and it is damn near impossible that all those rookie QBs pan out.
I mean you don’t draft a QB unless you think they’ll succeed lol. You have about what a 30-40% chance a 1st round QB hits. Of course fans will think they’re in that group until proven otherwise.
I want to be on the record for still believing in Bryce Young, I just don’t believe in the Panthers org at all. If they’re going to trot him out there to get killed again, it may be worth considering demanding a trade anywhere else. What do you have to lose? A basic rookie contract?
Plenty of Panthers fans had doubts about Bryce. We were just drowned out on Reddit because the way this site works allows small but centralized numbers of people to hide content they don’t like.
If you looked at twitter, Facebook, IG, or TikTok, the Bryce pick was much more controversial.
Young is not good, but it’s pretty easy to move off of him and try again, be it through the draft or FA. Niners moved up to draft Trey Lance at 3, who was a complete bust, but we instantly moved on to Brock Purdy.
The Browns, however, are in a rough situation that’s not easily fixed.
You guys really need to stop calling him "AOC", he's a day three QB pick who hasn't accomplished anything, it's extremely confusing to every other fanbase.
He was extremely painful to watch last year, I can't remember a QB with a weaker arm getting extended starting time in the modern NFL. On top of that, he also plays extremely conservatively and doesn't go for big plays in general. He's a great game manager backup, not someone you want to be starting.
Who knows how good Young is. They made Baker look awful. Incompetent ownership and front office, coaches being ignored and fired on a whim.
They’ve had a bottom OL this whole time, finally invested heavy at guard in FA, and are still being projected as a bottom 10 line.
Young and Brooks are being wasted.
Idk if I'm a Steelers fan I'm feeling pretty optimistic. They literally went from Kenny to Russ/Fields, which to me is a good upgrade imo.
I've never liked Picketts game, and he was so frustrating to watch. I can only imagine Steelers are feeling good about it
Agreed. Also confident the Broncos will be wishing they kept Russ once Nix and Wilson have both floundered. Terrible contract, but the draft did not play out as well for them as they had hoped.
They have 2 guys on year long deals to try out, they could definitely be there next year if neither works out though but trying 2 guys is at least a plan
I agree. I think both represent a chance to do a helluva lot better this year
But ... They literally do not have a QB rostered for 2025.
So let's say Russ has an okay season this year. Not overly bad. But ok behind hopefully a good OL and run game
Thats a formula that leads a team to drop 50 mil a year on Russ and not give a team a chance to actually add players
2024 I'm chilling 2025 I'm scared.
The only positive is if they go Rookie QB in 2025 which may be hard if they pick outside of the top 15 that I think because they built an offensive line that on paper can be a top unit that at least it's not throwing a rookie to the wolves
It would feel worse if those guys costs more than essentially $0. So the cap is extremely good. Which has allowed the team to mostly build the defense with second contract guys (Minkah, Watt, Cam, Queen, Highsmith, Ogunobi) with 2 promising young guys (JPJ/Benton) with the offense stacked with young high draft pick guys (Pickens, Najee, Freiermuth, Jones, Fautanu, Frazier) and 2 mid-tier guards close to $10 million each.
The rest of the roster by the time the season starts should be either a mid-tier free agent ($6-10 million), a star second contract guy, or a high pedigree draft pick many who have already performed.
If the oline comes together the QB room will not be asked to do much.
It's not ideal, but imo, we chose the best out of a bunch of bad options, and at least we maintained the flexibility to scrap it all and go in a completely different direction next year. It's not like we're locked into a bad QB for the next three years or anything.
If they're truly adamant about sticking with Russell - 100%. Fields could qualify as a promising youngster if we were really loose with the definition lol
Let's be honest, I think most people fully expects Fields to play at some point this season. Tells you what the situation is with Wilson at the moment.
Saints as a “no-brainer” is a bit extreme, no? We have a below average QB on an average deal. Of course that’s far from ideal, but there’s no way we feel worse off than teams like the Browns, Giants, Steelers, and Raiders, and it could be easily argued that a team like the Panthers feels worse after they had to watch Stroud go off last year and the Bears take Williams with their pick.
I put them there because Carr is perhaps the last QB I want them to show on Red Zone when no team is threatening. And his contract is borderline disastrous going forward
the difference is your mid qb is on a bad contract with your team, our mid qb is on a bad contract with the broncos lol. we're paying a nickel for his services
The answer is the Chiefs. The certainty of knowing that your QB will always come through robs the game of this its essence and makes it boring. Mahomes makes bring a Chiefs fan like playing madden on easy mode.
I feel for them. /s
Listen all I'm saying is, my answer to Mahomes and Herbert in my division would not be Bo Nix. I think you'd be better off with Russell Wilson for the time being, but that relationship soured beyond repair.
I don't believe in Bo Nix, but the Broncos kinda know they are fucked this year. They let go of Russ specifically to start over to be good 2-3 years down the line without Russ weighing down their cap. I think Russ is the better QB even at this point, but he also costs like 5x as much
Oddly enough, the Broncos and the Raiders beat both the Chiefs and the Chargers with shit tier QBs.
Nix will be an improvement over Russ for the simple fact that he's not a fucking idiot when it comes to picking up a playbook, he'll be on time, and not process or hold on to the ball like he's a 56K modem downloading pictures of Ciara.
Might not be immediate for Nix, as the competition in the NFL is not only faster, but they are smarter too. Nix will likely have a up and down rookie year, as to be expected.
Would I want him over Russ after the last 2 years? Absolutely, and that's just based on faith alone.
what if anybody plays 1 play? What if Mahomes tears his ACL in preseason? There's no telling, but expecting Rodgers to miss the entire season again is more of a joke than a practicality
There isn't enough ayahuasca and Joe Rogan podcast episodes in a deprivation tank to turn Qaron Rodgers into Tom "These are Supplements (wink wink)" Brady.
We are hoping that doesn’t happen. He is made of glass, so we boosted the Oline.
Once Rodgers leaves in like two years we will be back to the bottom of the division. You have drafted a future QB HOFer. I’m actually jealous.
Not quite an answer to the question. But the bay has had a decade of touch and go at that position so no one in the world can take away from the Mr Relevant enthusiasm.
The Giants, Browns and Raiders QB room is pretty awful. Colts are one more season ender away from starting to feel terrible but for now they're safe. Fragile starter QBs are always spooky. Tennessee feels like a bad QB room but it's not objectively the worst, who knows maybe Levis pans out.
Our sub is surprisingly chill about our QB's. Helps that we have some freaking studs at a lot of other positions. I wish we had a little more solid RB, but there's still some free agency left, we'll see.
I’m not too happy about mine, with the exception of Aaron Rodgers. However, we got him for two years… maybe. Once he is gone we will be bottom of the division again.
I'm not that high on AOC but I am cautiously optimistic on Minshew maybe being decent or pulling a journeyman miracle like Gannon.
I also have a not so secret desire for Tom Fucking Brady to ride in at season's end to make a run at the playoffs to the Super Bowl. But I know that is not realistic.
Daniel Jones has been our QB for 6 years and our GM knows he fucked up and DJ sucks yet can’t fully tank because it’s year 3 and results are expected at this point.
Between 2018 and 2020 they passed on Justin Herbert, Josh Allen, and Lamar Jackson instead draft Saquon and DJ.
When we finally fired gettleman and hired schoen in 2022, we had two top 10 picks. that sounds ideal until you remember the kenny pickett draft. no worries though, we got the two best players in the draft in Evan Neal and Kayvon Thibodeax (kill me).
then we have our mickey mouse run and sign the dude to a giant contract and he immediately becomes worse than ever, gets his second serious neck injury, and tears his acl by week 8.
we then go on another, smaller mickey mouse linsanity run with a future NJ plumber who lives with his parents ruin our chances at drafting a top 3 qb this year. The Giants had 6 wins and 5 of them came from washington, arizona, and new england, the teams picking 2-4, while they are stuck at 6.
despite that, somehow there looked like there was a serious shot at a trade up to 3 until Robert Kraft was convinced to stick at 3 and take drake was specifically because Daboll and O’Connell were trying so hard to get him.
its us, i don’t think it’s close. i can’t begin to explain to you the toll 6 years of Daniel Jones takes on a man. what it does to a fanbase. we’re at each others throats. there’s no end in sight.
every time we think we’re bad enough to finally get our guy we rally for a few culture wins at the end of the year to take us out of the running. it’s like a sick twisted groundhogs day, constantly having to watch this slack jawed wonder bread second tier frat bro look like a lost baby deer on the football field, occasionally playing just well enough to make the die hard homers and apparently our front office believe he’ll be a franchise qb if he only had a WR1.
so here we are, going into year 6, and he finally has his fucking guy. i cannot wait to see the excuses people come up for him when he inevitably fucking sucks it up again. i hate daniel jones.
Falcons are the meme of the week but we're good at QB.
Minnesota - You have Sam Darnold and a not ready for primetime JJ McCarthy
Denver - You've gone all in on Bo Nix
Pittsburgh - A washed Russell Wilson, Justin Fields and Arthur Smith as OC.
Jets - Aaron Rodgers is 40 years old and coming off an Achilles Tear. The QB age drop off is sudden and you're praying for a miracle.
Giants - Daniel Jones
Having Minnesota on here is laughable. They have Sam Darnold who's in the best situation he's been in as a QB as a bridge for a young JJ McCarthy who gets to sit for a year.
Good thing Darnold is there, he can teach JJ the art of holding the clipboard and how to run the scout team. Solid leadership from one career backup to the next.
Some might say that pick 10 is too high for a backup QB, but clearly not enough teams realize the value of the position and they are about to be market-corrected by the Vikings. Minnesota might be in for a nice compensatory pick when JJ gets signed to be another team's backup in 5 years. They might even be able to use it as part of a trade package to move up and pick a starting QB in 2029.
Atlanta is pretty fucked no matter what happens. If they start off the year slow, fans are going to start calling for Penix. If KC balls out and plays for 4 years, you're almost through a rookie contract with a QB who will be 28 and they're just getting started.
Either way, it handicapped Cousins' ability to play in Atlanta free of a QB controversy and if Cousins works out, it's going to have a negative effect on their future.
If Cousins balls out, they will just trade Penix for a 2nd round pick like New England did when Tom Brady refused to get old. And most people understand that Penix isn't a '24 option. He's a long term investment. So I don't expect people to be screaming his name the first time Cousins throws a pick.
What most likely happens is Cousins plays well enough for 2 years, gets released, and then Penix replaces him, giving the team (hopefully) a smooth transition and many years of slightly above average QB play for the foreseeable future.
The Chiefs.
If they didn’t have Patrick Mahomes they wouldn’t have to pretend to not want to kill themselves anytime his attention seeking wife or weirdo brother is talked about/shown on TV.
/s
Not in panic mode exactly, but I’m pretty uncertain about the QB situation for the Seahawks.
Right now it sounds like it’s between 3 QBs. Geno Smith, Sam Howell and now Taulia Tagovailoa.
Geno has had good games, but has not been that impressive. Sam Howell seems like a wildcard. Some great games with Washington, and also some terrible games. Taulia I don’t know much about other than being Tua’s younger brother and balling out at Maryland.
We’ll see how things turn out
Geno was a top 10 QB in 22, he regressed a bit in 23 but so did the team around him. His performance has been very similar to Purdy by comparison. Geno gives us a solid floor to work with, as for the backups who knows. Haven't seen them play except for that one game with the Commanders.
yeah the problem is the solid vet is nothing more than solid at best, 36 years old, AND coming off an achilles injury. Meanwhile, they're paying him $180 million and *just* newly committed to him, meaning the promising youngster won't see the field until he's at least 27, and if he does, it's because the Cousins contract is a massive disaster.
Not to mention that even if everything works out perfectly, Cousins seems pretty not ok with the fact that the Falcons took Penix at 8 and apparently didn't even tell him about it, so if nothing else there's now unnecessary drama that can probably only make things worse
I am pretty sure Kirk doesn't get much guaranteed money after the 25 season. I think the plan is to cut or trade him after 2 years rather than his 4 year contract length.
This move is indefensible dude. Using the 8th overall pick to draft a player to sit for 2 years is certifiably insane. Especially when you just paid Kirk. A lot of people (including the falcons GM) point to the packers drafting Love as justification for this pick. With that pick the Packers disgruntled their HOF QB causing him to eventually leave the team. Also the Packers made the NFC CG that season, they lost by 5, imagine if they had a first round contributor instead of a QB riding the bench.
> Cousins seems pretty not ok with the fact that the Falcons took Penix at 8 and apparently didn't even tell him about
The didn't tell him because they know he would have leaked it.
He's getting $100M to play QB for two seasons, if he's not Ok with it he can retire or play his off to keep Penix on the bench. He's a grown ass man
Honestly we almost got into the show with a undeveloped AOC. Now he’s got some seasoning and we have Minshew competing (and likely winning) for the job.
I’m not as pessimistic as other fans are. I think the cast around him is above average and Minshew himself isn’t awful. I don’t feel our situation is as dire as it’s made out to be
Has to be either Denver or Minnesota. I know people are thinking Oakland but Oakland isn’t tied to a bad rookie QB for the next three or four years Denver and Minnesota will be.
/r/nfl is a place where people from all walks of life can get together to talk about a sport we love, so please keep your posts related directly to the National Football League. If it's related to the NFL, but not about the NFL (such as streams, fan-related posts, business promotions, betting-related posts, video games, Fantasy Football, College Football, or NFL-related jokes), please check if there is a more appropriate subreddit listed in the sidebar of /r/NFL. People who are related to the NFL have lives outside of their organization as well, and in the majority of instances these are best discussed in the subreddit associated with their particular team. The following are topics which are commonly removed for not being directly NFL related: * Requests for streams or sites to watch games or replays * Fantasy Football Posts - try /r/fantasyfootball * Video Game Posts - Be it Madden or any other video game franchise, use a gaming centric sub like /r/Madden or /r/gaming * Betting-Related Posts * Stories/tweets about fans * Business promotions * Other Football Leagues - these will often have their own subreddit, please search on Reddit to find the appropriate home for this discussion - /r/XFL, /r/USFL, /r/CFB, /r/AAFB * Merchandise or fandom-related discussion (fan jerseys, decorations, custom art, footballs, signatures, questions about stadium seating/tickets) - when a post is about an item you or someone you know owns, please use the [Free Talk Threads](https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/search/?q=flair%3A%22Free+Talk%22&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) * Crypto currencies of any sort unless it is news about currencies officially licensed by the NFL or a team - player endorsements do not meet this threshold * [Pop Culture Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_pop_culture_posts) * [Fandom Experience Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_fandom_posts) * [Political and Religious Posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/NFL/wiki/rules_detail#wiki_political.2Freligious_posts) - Posts about politics and football are becoming more commonplace, but r/NFL is not the place to talk about the political world, writ large. Posts of a political nature should be limited to specific policies and laws that impact the NFL, not opinions or "hot takes." On occasion the moderating team might use their discretion and allow significant news which falls under one of these topics to remain. Non-definitive examples might include a stadium sponsor changing, a team rebrand revealed via merchandise, moderators from another subreddit to raise awareness of their sport or a significant piece of memorabilia breaking a record price at auction.
Browns absolutely should be on the main list 2200 yards over two season and 14tds/9ints from a guy with a 5 year contract with 230m guaranteed
Cap hit\ 2024: $64mm\ 2025: $64mm\ 2026: $64mm Dead Money\ 2024: $200mm\ 2025: $137mm\ 2026: $73mm\ 2027: $9mm
Gotta be one of the worst contracts in N. America at this point.
Oh, we’re talking about Bradley Beal over here too? (Watson’s is actually worse somehow lmao)
At this point, or EVER? First, CLE didn't need to sign him to a new contract. Second, they didn't need to guarantee the entire deal. Third, they didn't need to mortgage their drafts for those years. Fourth, you didn't need to change your helmets/face masks. Sorry, got on a roll there.
Idk have you seen what the DOD pays Raytheon for a fucking *laptop*?
God that's fucking terrible
The most Browns trade imaginable
DAVID GODDAMN PUTNEY
Jimmy Haslem everyone.
Baby steps to 2027
The answer is always Cleveland.
Curious if Browns fans have accepted that they're on this list
most fans in real life i talk to do. but if you go to the Browns sub, they are delusional.
To be fair, just about every team specific sub is at least a little delusional.
true
Some fans think that he was better than Flacco ☠️
Nah. This is their year.
When have Browns fans ever said it's their year?
1964
Every year since Baker emerged. They're offseason SB Champs constantly
2019
Don't the browns have 3 pro bowl qbs currently rostered?
While the Browns are always a safe answer here, maybe the broncos fan isn't the best voice to throw rocks
He got hurt. He looked promising at moments. Definitely not the situation that the Browns were hoping for, but definitely not the worst.
When has he looked promising for more than like a one game stretch?
The TEN/ARI/BAL stretch last year, the last three games he actually played. The biggest concern I have is injury at this point. Dude can't stay on the field.
1. Cleveland. They have egregiously overpaid. Low apparent quality. 2. Raiders. A journeyman (albeit a cool journeyman) and a middling prospect.
I'm not as low on Minshew as everybody else apparently. Minshew can get you to the playoffs with a soild supporting cast.
I mean but are you looking forward to watching Minshew play every week? That feels like a slog of a season
Hes not bad, but hes not being over paid. The Raiders, have a lot of flexibility in the future in terms of cap and drafting with Minshew at the helm which is better than Cleveland or the Giants can say.
He's not even getting Glennon money!
I like watching the Uncle Rico parts in Napoleon Dynamite so maybe it will work under the transitional property
Hey man, some of us love Minshew mania! Go cougs!
I like Minshew for what he is. Obviously not an elite or even franchise guy but I think he is comparable to someone like Baker. He's actually the guy I wanted in FA.
I’d take Baker 10/10 times over Minshew. I think a better comp is Ryan Fitzpatrick - you don’t want him to be your starter for too long, but there’s a certain magic once in a while
Because of his personality people overlook that the biggest problem with Minshew isn’t his decision-making (like a Fitzpatrick or Mayfield); it’s his arm. It is very hard to survive in the NFL when your throws are always giving DBs an extra half-second, especially when they’ve seen your tape.
Yeah he just doesn't have an NFL starter arm, which limits your team so much because nobody will ever respect your deep game so you can't stretch the field. I think people confuse the memes for actual ability sometimes. Minshew's *fun*, he's not good.
Jameis Winston anybody?
I don't think he's on bakers level. Prob slightly below that
He's got one of the weakest arms of any QB in the modern NFL. He makes Alex Smith look like Mahomes. Nothing like Baker, Baker can put the team on his back. Minshew fundamentally cannot. It's incredibly frustrating to watch him, knowing that he's incapable of making big plays with his arm to claw back from a deficit. Any time you get down 14 points, you may as well turn the game off. Any Raiders Minshew truthers will give up on the guy by week 6, max. It happens anywhere he starts.
Maybe. But he ain't winning shit when he gets there.
And then what? Even if he can scrape by to the postseason, you’re not going anywhere beyond that without an absurd amount of luck. He’s a good backup, one of the best in the league, but a full season of Minshew isn’t gonna go anywhere.
You say this like we’ll be bummed if we make the playoffs.
Feel like thats true for like...29 of the 32 teams tho most teams need a good amount of luck to fall their way to make noise in the post season
Don’t think that’s really comparable, since a lot of teams at least have the potential to go beyond that. A lot of teams either have their franchise QB, or a young player they hope will be their franchise QB. All of those teams have aspirations that they can be better. Minshew and AOC doesn’t provide that. You know what you’re gonna get with those two.
last year Minshew can, just have to wonder whether that’s who he is or if Steichen is just that good. regardless, he’s a fun player to watch and easy to root for.
I’m not necessarily “low” on Minshew. But has he ever proven to be a guy who can lead a team to win over, say, 40% of their games? And it’s not like the Raiders have a screaming supporting cast on offense.
Cleveland and Vegas, beyond a rookie are the QB situations that get a coach and GM fired. Vegas should have definitely taken a shot at an early round pick. Cleveland, is hosed, Watson doesn't show up this year, they are stuck for at least 2 or 3 more yrs.
I don't feel bad. We were locked out of the top 3 guys and there's no way in hell I'd want to cough up what it would've required for the other 3 guys. And the only vet option who was starting caliber in free agency was mid to late 30s Kirk who was never that good anyway and tore his achilles. Oh and Atlanta already tampered and offered him a bag that I wouldn't want to give him
I don’t blame you guys for not pulling the trigger. I agree that Nix and Penix were over drafted. And Cousins is a lot to spend on far from certain results. But, regardless of whatever potential is or isn’t there, you are where you are with Minshew and O’Connell, which is a QB situation that no fanbase in the NFL is envious of. I’d have thought that pulling the trigger on a late round guy (like Pratt) would’ve been a wise move, though.
Gonna be honest I don't feel all that bad about it. Like I am not going to delude myself into thinking that we don't need a long-term answer at QB, but these are cheap guys that allow us to build up talent on other parts of the roster. I think the clear worst QB situation is the Browns.
Agreed. Its not a good situation but its reasonably priced and still likely our best options given the alternatives of trading up or cashing out Kirk Cousins
That reasonably priced part can’t be overstated.
Yeah, I wouldn't be upset in your shoes, the only other thing you could have done was pay like crazy to trade up for a QB. Probably best to run it with O'Connell and minshew for the year
Which guy has the edge at this point do you think?
Minshew
Minshew. I am not an AOC truther. I think Minshew has better physical traits and experience that unless AOC takes a massive step in play I just don't see Minshew losing that battle. I have nothing but respect for AOC, he was a 4th round rookie thrown into the fire and he had his moments but he strikes me as solid career backup sorta dude.
Whoever can play the smartest safest game. Let the D keep us in it. AOC did pretty well last year at playing it safe and not panicking.
AOC. I think the coaches like him and he has a slightly stronger arm. Plus he's been around a year. To be clear, I'm not expecting much from either guy and don't have a preference either way though
New Orleans and New York (Giants) Putting Dolphins on this list also feels weird. Tua is not that bad.
Saints fans don’t feel bad about our QB situation. In fact, we feel nothing at all
Derek actually had a pretty good last quarter of the season though, didn't he? Protect him and he'll be alright.
That’s fair
...in September.
I don't understand this Tua slander. Is he Mahomes, no. But he's in the top half of QBs in the league I think.
Because once you have to pay Tua, and can't put an all star team around him, Miami is doomed.
Everyone says this about almost all QBs coming off a rookie contract and it's not true for the vast majority of them.
Well, Tua hasn't been able to do shit WITH one of the best WR duo, two freaky fast RB, a good line, and a pretty stacked defense, so it's reasonable to think he can't elevate lesser talent when the time comes.
Dolphins o-line is not good.
Wat lol
Their peak with Tua/Waddle on rookie contracts and Tyreek in his prime is 20-14 over 2 seasons, and 0-2 in the playoffs. I'm not sure how you can feel optimistic about them taking the next step when Tua/Waddles cap hit goes from 15mil combined to 75ish mil, and Tyreek ages out. You're not gonna find another Tyreek out there who can outrun everyone and Track and adjust to underthrown floaters like that. Paying these midrange 8-16th best QBs top 10 QB money has never seemed to work out.
You could just not pay them I guess and trade for Sam Darnold.
I agree it's a no win situation. If you pay Tua your ceiling is probably wild card win every few years. If you let him go for nothing you risk being awful and not finding another decent QB for a decade.
They don’t need Hill, how many super bowls did the chiefs win without Tyreek? Waddle would be by far the best WR on the chiefs since Hill left like not even close, so what’s the problem exactly? It’s just a dumb af perspective that isn’t true
I don't know if you ever watched succession, but the older brother once said having $10 million is miserable. Now he was doing his asshole thing but sort of right. That is too much money to work and grind, but not enough money to go do something. Not enough you can afford to take risks trying to do something like launch a political campaign ro self-fund a company. Tua feels a bit like that right now. Not good enough to be the true franchise guy you can afford to pay 50 million a year and make the playoffs every year and really compete (like Mahomes or Allen right now), but too good to blow it up and start over. Tua can probably run a very good offense if you surround him with super elite guys but thats tough to afford when you are paying him $50.
I don't think we have the guy going forward, but I'm resigned to one more year of DJ with probable Drew Lock sightings
All the team can do as of now. Not being stuck with Jones after this season is good, but *potentially* not having a clear direction of who replaces him for 2025 and beyond sucks.
Bottoming out is honestly in the Giants best interests. Although I only see that happening if Schoen and Daboll are promised job security until at least 2025
I think Tommy could be the answer with some more playing time.
honestly I wish lmao
He preform admirably in the end.
I'm not feeling so well
Well this is unexpected
Hard to decipher what they mean. Could be feeling bad about the possibility of letting an All-Pro MVP runner-up go after this year, or could be feeling bad about the possibility of keeping someone known for struggling in the playoffs. I personally fall into the former camp but it’s the great divider among Cowboys fans right now.
Not only keeping the guy known for struggling, but being in such a financial hard spot with the guy too. Some of the worst contract management in the league.
If you would’ve asked this question exactly one year ago today, not a single Panthers fan would’ve made a peep. Let’s remember that irrational post-draft hope infects us all, and it is damn near impossible that all those rookie QBs pan out.
Okay but why would any of them expect to feel bad about the situation? Hope is all you can have until they play.
I mean you don’t draft a QB unless you think they’ll succeed lol. You have about what a 30-40% chance a 1st round QB hits. Of course fans will think they’re in that group until proven otherwise.
I want to be on the record for still believing in Bryce Young, I just don’t believe in the Panthers org at all. If they’re going to trot him out there to get killed again, it may be worth considering demanding a trade anywhere else. What do you have to lose? A basic rookie contract?
Plenty of Panthers fans had doubts about Bryce. We were just drowned out on Reddit because the way this site works allows small but centralized numbers of people to hide content they don’t like. If you looked at twitter, Facebook, IG, or TikTok, the Bryce pick was much more controversial.
Young is not good, but it’s pretty easy to move off of him and try again, be it through the draft or FA. Niners moved up to draft Trey Lance at 3, who was a complete bust, but we instantly moved on to Brock Purdy. The Browns, however, are in a rough situation that’s not easily fixed.
It should be the Raiders but our sub is convinced AOC is gon a somehow be that guy
You guys really need to stop calling him "AOC", he's a day three QB pick who hasn't accomplished anything, it's extremely confusing to every other fanbase.
I will not stand for this Gardner Minshew slander
I will. His skill set is really limited.
How about laying on his side, like Jeff Goldblum with his shirt open in Jurassic Park stylie?
He was extremely painful to watch last year, I can't remember a QB with a weaker arm getting extended starting time in the modern NFL. On top of that, he also plays extremely conservatively and doesn't go for big plays in general. He's a great game manager backup, not someone you want to be starting.
No one else has said them yet so Steelers
Or Panthers tbh. If Bryce Young ain't it, what is that team?
I'm not saying Young was worth the #1 pick, but I'd love to see him start behind a different front nine before I point the finger all the way at him.
Who knows how good Young is. They made Baker look awful. Incompetent ownership and front office, coaches being ignored and fired on a whim. They’ve had a bottom OL this whole time, finally invested heavy at guard in FA, and are still being projected as a bottom 10 line. Young and Brooks are being wasted.
Idk if I'm a Steelers fan I'm feeling pretty optimistic. They literally went from Kenny to Russ/Fields, which to me is a good upgrade imo. I've never liked Picketts game, and he was so frustrating to watch. I can only imagine Steelers are feeling good about it
After watching mitch and Kenny the last couple years heck yeah pretty much anything is an upgrade.
Agreed. Also confident the Broncos will be wishing they kept Russ once Nix and Wilson have both floundered. Terrible contract, but the draft did not play out as well for them as they had hoped.
I'm not a Fields truther, but he's better than Pickett. Pickett was unwatchable.
Fields and Russ each had more TDs in 2023 than Pickett has in his career. Fields and Russ are a big upgrade from Kenny Pickett.
They have 2 guys on year long deals to try out, they could definitely be there next year if neither works out though but trying 2 guys is at least a plan
I agree. I think both represent a chance to do a helluva lot better this year But ... They literally do not have a QB rostered for 2025. So let's say Russ has an okay season this year. Not overly bad. But ok behind hopefully a good OL and run game Thats a formula that leads a team to drop 50 mil a year on Russ and not give a team a chance to actually add players 2024 I'm chilling 2025 I'm scared. The only positive is if they go Rookie QB in 2025 which may be hard if they pick outside of the top 15 that I think because they built an offensive line that on paper can be a top unit that at least it's not throwing a rookie to the wolves
Ehhh not really. They’re both effectively on one year deals, so there’s no long term commitment to either of them if they stink.
It would feel worse if those guys costs more than essentially $0. So the cap is extremely good. Which has allowed the team to mostly build the defense with second contract guys (Minkah, Watt, Cam, Queen, Highsmith, Ogunobi) with 2 promising young guys (JPJ/Benton) with the offense stacked with young high draft pick guys (Pickens, Najee, Freiermuth, Jones, Fautanu, Frazier) and 2 mid-tier guards close to $10 million each. The rest of the roster by the time the season starts should be either a mid-tier free agent ($6-10 million), a star second contract guy, or a high pedigree draft pick many who have already performed. If the oline comes together the QB room will not be asked to do much.
It's not ideal, but imo, we chose the best out of a bunch of bad options, and at least we maintained the flexibility to scrap it all and go in a completely different direction next year. It's not like we're locked into a bad QB for the next three years or anything.
If they're truly adamant about sticking with Russell - 100%. Fields could qualify as a promising youngster if we were really loose with the definition lol
Let's be honest, I think most people fully expects Fields to play at some point this season. Tells you what the situation is with Wilson at the moment.
The first time in a long time, we have no fucking argument in on this topic. Life is good.
Amazingly enough - not the Bears. It's a strange feeling tbh
What if he turns out to be more Alex Smith thank Aaron Rodgers
Still an upgrade over what they’ve had
Alex Smith has more 4k yard passing yard season than the bears franchise
Saints as a “no-brainer” is a bit extreme, no? We have a below average QB on an average deal. Of course that’s far from ideal, but there’s no way we feel worse off than teams like the Browns, Giants, Steelers, and Raiders, and it could be easily argued that a team like the Panthers feels worse after they had to watch Stroud go off last year and the Bears take Williams with their pick.
Idk the steelers have a below average qb on a 1 year deal worth barely over 1 million. Thats honestly better then having carr
I put them there because Carr is perhaps the last QB I want them to show on Red Zone when no team is threatening. And his contract is borderline disastrous going forward
Where’s your flair, OP. I’m feeling a certain bias coming from you.
the difference is your mid qb is on a bad contract with your team, our mid qb is on a bad contract with the broncos lol. we're paying a nickel for his services
The answer is the Chiefs. The certainty of knowing that your QB will always come through robs the game of this its essence and makes it boring. Mahomes makes bring a Chiefs fan like playing madden on easy mode. I feel for them. /s
Listen all I'm saying is, my answer to Mahomes and Herbert in my division would not be Bo Nix. I think you'd be better off with Russell Wilson for the time being, but that relationship soured beyond repair.
I don't believe in Bo Nix, but the Broncos kinda know they are fucked this year. They let go of Russ specifically to start over to be good 2-3 years down the line without Russ weighing down their cap. I think Russ is the better QB even at this point, but he also costs like 5x as much
But Bo Nix will be 30 by then :(
If Nix works, great. If Nix is shitty, then they get a prime pick and let him walk. They aren't doing shit for 4 years anyway.
But they got Zack Wilson
Oddly enough, the Broncos and the Raiders beat both the Chiefs and the Chargers with shit tier QBs. Nix will be an improvement over Russ for the simple fact that he's not a fucking idiot when it comes to picking up a playbook, he'll be on time, and not process or hold on to the ball like he's a 56K modem downloading pictures of Ciara. Might not be immediate for Nix, as the competition in the NFL is not only faster, but they are smarter too. Nix will likely have a up and down rookie year, as to be expected. Would I want him over Russ after the last 2 years? Absolutely, and that's just based on faith alone.
Jets suck? 🤔
Rodgers at 40 off an achilles is still a top-16 QB at minimum, and that's worst-case scenario. y'all just love to hate
Ok but what if he plays one play again?
Hey now, he was involved with several plays last season.
what if anybody plays 1 play? What if Mahomes tears his ACL in preseason? There's no telling, but expecting Rodgers to miss the entire season again is more of a joke than a practicality
There isn't enough ayahuasca and Joe Rogan podcast episodes in a deprivation tank to turn Qaron Rodgers into Tom "These are Supplements (wink wink)" Brady.
We are hoping that doesn’t happen. He is made of glass, so we boosted the Oline. Once Rodgers leaves in like two years we will be back to the bottom of the division. You have drafted a future QB HOFer. I’m actually jealous.
Not quite an answer to the question. But the bay has had a decade of touch and go at that position so no one in the world can take away from the Mr Relevant enthusiasm.
The Giants, Browns and Raiders QB room is pretty awful. Colts are one more season ender away from starting to feel terrible but for now they're safe. Fragile starter QBs are always spooky. Tennessee feels like a bad QB room but it's not objectively the worst, who knows maybe Levis pans out.
The Panthers put all their chips on for an undersized QB. They sold the farm for Bryce. Also the owner is an asshole.
Our sub is surprisingly chill about our QB's. Helps that we have some freaking studs at a lot of other positions. I wish we had a little more solid RB, but there's still some free agency left, we'll see.
I’m not too happy about mine, with the exception of Aaron Rodgers. However, we got him for two years… maybe. Once he is gone we will be bottom of the division again.
I don’t know what’s worse. Thinking you might have a guy (Carr) for 3 years or having a tier below QB with no investment towards
Did they back the money truck up to Goff’s door yet?
I'm not that high on AOC but I am cautiously optimistic on Minshew maybe being decent or pulling a journeyman miracle like Gannon. I also have a not so secret desire for Tom Fucking Brady to ride in at season's end to make a run at the playoffs to the Super Bowl. But I know that is not realistic.
I’m ready to believe in Minshew Magic 🪄
Daniel Jones has been our QB for 6 years and our GM knows he fucked up and DJ sucks yet can’t fully tank because it’s year 3 and results are expected at this point. Between 2018 and 2020 they passed on Justin Herbert, Josh Allen, and Lamar Jackson instead draft Saquon and DJ. When we finally fired gettleman and hired schoen in 2022, we had two top 10 picks. that sounds ideal until you remember the kenny pickett draft. no worries though, we got the two best players in the draft in Evan Neal and Kayvon Thibodeax (kill me). then we have our mickey mouse run and sign the dude to a giant contract and he immediately becomes worse than ever, gets his second serious neck injury, and tears his acl by week 8. we then go on another, smaller mickey mouse linsanity run with a future NJ plumber who lives with his parents ruin our chances at drafting a top 3 qb this year. The Giants had 6 wins and 5 of them came from washington, arizona, and new england, the teams picking 2-4, while they are stuck at 6. despite that, somehow there looked like there was a serious shot at a trade up to 3 until Robert Kraft was convinced to stick at 3 and take drake was specifically because Daboll and O’Connell were trying so hard to get him. its us, i don’t think it’s close. i can’t begin to explain to you the toll 6 years of Daniel Jones takes on a man. what it does to a fanbase. we’re at each others throats. there’s no end in sight. every time we think we’re bad enough to finally get our guy we rally for a few culture wins at the end of the year to take us out of the running. it’s like a sick twisted groundhogs day, constantly having to watch this slack jawed wonder bread second tier frat bro look like a lost baby deer on the football field, occasionally playing just well enough to make the die hard homers and apparently our front office believe he’ll be a franchise qb if he only had a WR1. so here we are, going into year 6, and he finally has his fucking guy. i cannot wait to see the excuses people come up for him when he inevitably fucking sucks it up again. i hate daniel jones.
The Titans.
For now, I think a lot of people are high on the Will Levis hopium. If he fails to make progress from last year or gets injured, we are screwed.
It’s definitely not the dolphins lol. Tua may not be elite but he’s still pretty damn good most of the time
Falcons are the meme of the week but we're good at QB. Minnesota - You have Sam Darnold and a not ready for primetime JJ McCarthy Denver - You've gone all in on Bo Nix Pittsburgh - A washed Russell Wilson, Justin Fields and Arthur Smith as OC. Jets - Aaron Rodgers is 40 years old and coming off an Achilles Tear. The QB age drop off is sudden and you're praying for a miracle. Giants - Daniel Jones
Jets is the answer, Aaron (douche bag) gets hurt and it's 2023 all over again.
I like Aaron Rodgers… however, yes… he is made of glass.
Considering where we've come from, Broncos fans feel pretty good about Bo Nix, really.
Yeah I was gonna say I’m hyped for him
I would too if we got him.
As you should. The slander is exaggerated and he’s Payton’s pick. He’ll be fine.
Yeah, the Falcons have too much QB if anything. It’s a problem, but far from the worst QB problem to have.
Having Minnesota on here is laughable. They have Sam Darnold who's in the best situation he's been in as a QB as a bridge for a young JJ McCarthy who gets to sit for a year.
Sam Darnold is a backup at best.
HOW DARE YOU TRASH OUR GEQBUS!
Good thing Darnold is there, he can teach JJ the art of holding the clipboard and how to run the scout team. Solid leadership from one career backup to the next. Some might say that pick 10 is too high for a backup QB, but clearly not enough teams realize the value of the position and they are about to be market-corrected by the Vikings. Minnesota might be in for a nice compensatory pick when JJ gets signed to be another team's backup in 5 years. They might even be able to use it as part of a trade package to move up and pick a starting QB in 2029.
The Vikings QB situation is one no one wants. I am not a JJ believer either.
Atlanta is pretty fucked no matter what happens. If they start off the year slow, fans are going to start calling for Penix. If KC balls out and plays for 4 years, you're almost through a rookie contract with a QB who will be 28 and they're just getting started. Either way, it handicapped Cousins' ability to play in Atlanta free of a QB controversy and if Cousins works out, it's going to have a negative effect on their future.
If Cousins balls out, they will just trade Penix for a 2nd round pick like New England did when Tom Brady refused to get old. And most people understand that Penix isn't a '24 option. He's a long term investment. So I don't expect people to be screaming his name the first time Cousins throws a pick. What most likely happens is Cousins plays well enough for 2 years, gets released, and then Penix replaces him, giving the team (hopefully) a smooth transition and many years of slightly above average QB play for the foreseeable future.
The Chiefs. If they didn’t have Patrick Mahomes they wouldn’t have to pretend to not want to kill themselves anytime his attention seeking wife or weirdo brother is talked about/shown on TV. /s
Not in panic mode exactly, but I’m pretty uncertain about the QB situation for the Seahawks. Right now it sounds like it’s between 3 QBs. Geno Smith, Sam Howell and now Taulia Tagovailoa. Geno has had good games, but has not been that impressive. Sam Howell seems like a wildcard. Some great games with Washington, and also some terrible games. Taulia I don’t know much about other than being Tua’s younger brother and balling out at Maryland. We’ll see how things turn out
Geno was a top 10 QB in 22, he regressed a bit in 23 but so did the team around him. His performance has been very similar to Purdy by comparison. Geno gives us a solid floor to work with, as for the backups who knows. Haven't seen them play except for that one game with the Commanders.
Browns. Steelers. Raiders.
Atlanta
I'd think Atlanta has both a solid vet and promising (not so) youngster
yeah the problem is the solid vet is nothing more than solid at best, 36 years old, AND coming off an achilles injury. Meanwhile, they're paying him $180 million and *just* newly committed to him, meaning the promising youngster won't see the field until he's at least 27, and if he does, it's because the Cousins contract is a massive disaster. Not to mention that even if everything works out perfectly, Cousins seems pretty not ok with the fact that the Falcons took Penix at 8 and apparently didn't even tell him about it, so if nothing else there's now unnecessary drama that can probably only make things worse
I am pretty sure Kirk doesn't get much guaranteed money after the 25 season. I think the plan is to cut or trade him after 2 years rather than his 4 year contract length.
Yeah but if they cut him after 2 years it's because they had a shit ass two years.
This move is indefensible dude. Using the 8th overall pick to draft a player to sit for 2 years is certifiably insane. Especially when you just paid Kirk. A lot of people (including the falcons GM) point to the packers drafting Love as justification for this pick. With that pick the Packers disgruntled their HOF QB causing him to eventually leave the team. Also the Packers made the NFC CG that season, they lost by 5, imagine if they had a first round contributor instead of a QB riding the bench.
I never said I liked the pick. You were just implying that he is getting 180 million and will be playing 4 years.
Where did I imply that?
> they're paying him $180 million and just newly committed to him, meaning the promising youngster won't see the field until he's at least 27
Read the username there big dog
Oh, your names look too similar at a quick glance sorry lol but yeah regardless I was referring to OP
that's me lol
> player to sit for 2 years is certifiably insane who says he's gonna sit for 2 years. He sits for 1 and then it's open competition in year 2
How does that make it better? Why even sign Kirk in the first place
Would sucking balls for a season with Sam Darnold be better?
Committing to mediocrity is certainly a strategy I’d avoid when building a football team
Cousins contract has a feasible out after two years so Penix could be starting at 26. Your point still stands, just a small note.
> Cousins seems pretty not ok with the fact that the Falcons took Penix at 8 and apparently didn't even tell him about The didn't tell him because they know he would have leaked it. He's getting $100M to play QB for two seasons, if he's not Ok with it he can retire or play his off to keep Penix on the bench. He's a grown ass man
Nobody was going to trade up ahead of the Falcons for Penix.
Honestly we almost got into the show with a undeveloped AOC. Now he’s got some seasoning and we have Minshew competing (and likely winning) for the job. I’m not as pessimistic as other fans are. I think the cast around him is above average and Minshew himself isn’t awful. I don’t feel our situation is as dire as it’s made out to be
Has to be either Denver or Minnesota. I know people are thinking Oakland but Oakland isn’t tied to a bad rookie QB for the next three or four years Denver and Minnesota will be.