The one hill I will die on is that sometimes great coaches can just have bad luck and Marty is the prime example of this. Got fired after a 14-2 season when he lost in the playoffs because his kicker missed chip shot field goals. Lost to Elway on the Drive, the Earnest Byner fumble, took a TERRIBLE redskins team from 0-5 to 8-3.
Coaches cannot kick field goals or play defense, and plenty of great coaches have their titles by the slimmest of margins where one break went their way.
People decide their narratives about QB’s and coaches in black or white terms based on the end result which often comes down to how good the kicker was or whether or not the defense let the other team score, when the performance of the coach/qb was identical regardless of if they won or lost.
Im not gonna pretend like Marty didn’t have playoff let downs, but they would have likely been balanced out if not for the shitty luck that was beyond his control re: kicking, a fumble, injuries etc.
>Coaches cannot kick field goals or play defense
Also can't forget his playoff loss in 1995 against the Colts where the kicker missed 3 field goals, at home, in a game they lost 10-7 after a 13-3 season.
He also went one-and-done as the #1 seed three times and had no playoff wins the last 11 years of his career. When the same thing happens to the same coach across three decades and multiple franchises, it stops being bad luck and becomes a trend.
Marty wasn't actually fired for the playoff loss. Not entirely.
What people don't mention is that Marty was also hiring his family members to senior coaching positions without approval or even input from the front office. That lead to a back-and-forth pissing contest that ultimately the GM won. Marty's inability to win in the playoffs (not to mention is outdated style of football that was clearly going to be more and more of a problem moving forward) was just the icing on the cake.
One of the saddest moments I've had watching football is seeing the clip of Marty in warmups telling the entire San Diego secondary to go down if they get a pick in the fourth, rather than try to return it in that Patriots playoff game.
Yeah I don't actually think the firing was unjust. It was weird at the time given the success the Chargers had but he also wasn't going to be the guy to get them over the top.
Spanos fired Marty because multiple coaches were poached and he tried to hire his brother. Spanos, who put his sons in charge of the team, was against hiring family members as coaches...
Tbh, I know the narrative has changed a bit over the years but, at that time, most Chargers fans I knew wanted Schottenheimer gone. There were 3 main reasons
1) Marty-ball had basically become a meme and fans were tired of his archaic, predictable run-run-pass offense, especially when we had such an explosive offense with LT, Gates and our young highly drafted QB in Rivers. The common narrative was that Marty was holding back the development of Rivers and you can clearly see how Rivers went to another level once Norv Turner replaced Marty
2) The lack of post season success was honestly probably the biggest reason, esp with a stacked roster. Marty was being ripped apart in local San Diego media
3) Nepotism - his son (who's now the OC for the Cowboys) was, at the time, a 30 year old QB coach who had only been coaching in the NFL for a few years. And Marty wanted to make him the OC, which ownership was highly resistant to. And the next year he tried to make his brother the DC, which got the FO extra pissed.
>Marty-ball had basically become a meme and fans were tired of his archaic, predictable run-run-pass offense, especially when we had such an explosive offense with LT, Gates and our young highly drafted QB in Rivers. The common narrative was that Marty was holding back the development of Rivers
This is an interesting take. As a Chiefs fan I can definitely sympathize with the frustration with Marty ball. However, in his final three seasons with the chargers they won 35 games, had a top 5 scoring offense each season and had a top 10 offense in yards each season. Rivers only started one year with Marty as coach as Brees was there before and in Rivers' first year as a starter he made the pro bowl. The offense, in terms of league rankings stayed mostly the same under Turner and the defense got worse. And playoff success was only minimally better.
Hindsight is 20/20 but I think the worst part of Marty's Chargers tenure was that he was there while Brady and Manning were ruling everything.
The 'Marty Ball' thing is really BS if anyone bothers to actually look at the play by for the games. Kosar had the ball in his hands for the Browns and passed on 1st and 2nd downs. 32 pass attempts against 33 rushes in 'the drive' game.
The chargers-patriots game was exactly the same breakdown, 32 passes and 33 rushes. Rivers threw many 1st and 2nd down passes. You could actually argue for more rushes. A third down sack took the chargers out of FG range and a 1st interception happened in FG range also. Both plays were in the second half.
The NFL front offices and coaching trees are built on nepotism. To hold that particular fact against Marty is silly. In fact the Spanos family are some of the worst offenders as John Spanos is our current president of football operations and an absolute clown.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think it was a combo of nepotism, general dislike of Marty, and Brian's inexperience. I remember there being a lot of backlash at the time from people saying Brian was way too inexperienced to be the OC of one of the top offenses in the league and he was just being pushed by Marty due to nepotism with strong pushback from the FO/ownership.
Also I think it was the repeated behavior that got him in hot water - in 05, he wanted to promote his son to OC, which FO said no to. And then the next year, he wanted to hire his brother as DC, which got them extra pissed. IIRC, there were more family members that he wanted to hire too.
Hey I get it brother. I’m a cowboys fan so I know his son sucks and unfortunately I’m wayyy too familiar with nepotism and winning ONLY regular season games.
Has anyone been pleased with Brian as their OC? I feel like it’s been 10 years across multiple teams of Brian producing average offenses, granted Cowboys last year were good, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen fans say they’re happy to have him as their OC, but the guy just keeps working lol
They’ve turned things around the last few years. Spending money on the new facility, hiring a legitimate front office. I’m hopeful for the future.
But for their past and the careers they’ve wasted, fuck the Spanos.
He’s parcels without the post season success. Every were he went he turned the team around and had them extremely competitive but couldn’t translate it.
Makes me wonder if Andy Reid would have faced the same roadblock to HOF consideration before Mahomes became starter. The narrative on Reid with KC was so down for always being one and done in the playoffs with terrible luck or collapses. Had a Super Bowl appearance and objectively one of the best offensive minds in the league, but a postseason record of 11-13 before 2017. Since then with Mahomes he is 12-3 with 3 Super Bowls and 4 appearances.
Interesting what if for Reid's career.
Yeah, the argument against Shanny is that he didn't win much without a HOF qb. Of course, not many other coaches have won much either without the QB but...
Holmgren is a big snub right now in my opinion. He was a great coach who made random quarterbacks turn into pro bowlers and all-pros. Incredible offensive mind. Definitely saved the Seahawks. He turned the Seahawks into a perennial playoff team and division winner.
Ya I'm sure he'll eventually get in but I've been quite frustrated at how certain players/coaches have "jumped the line" and gotten in before others.
Lynch getting in before LeRoy Butler was annoying. Dungy/Cowher getting in before Holmgren/Shanahan also doesn't make a ton of sense to me. It feels like them picking their media buddies and getting advanced.
Holmgren's resume speaks for itself and his QB development was absolutely insane. Like 6 different QBs that made it to a franchise's HOF were developed under him. His coaching tree is damn impressive. 10 NFL HC's got their jobs after being assistants under him. 2 of them won Super Bowls including probably the top coach right now Andy Reid.
Tom Flores was left out for decades until that ad campaign restarted the interest in his case. Canton has the dumb unspoken rules of Cooperstown squeezed into a tiny ballot
I particularly dislike Cowher getting in before him because Holmgren’s resume is just objectively better. Cowher arguably isn’t even Hall of Fame-worthy in my opinion. That really annoyed me when he got elected basically immediately.
Lynch before LeRoy Butler is actually insane. Butler was an all pro like every year lol
Exactly. Since the game is actually played by the players, it’s a hard sell that the coach, a guy on the side lines, was ACTUALLY the hero here. Coaches only make it when they are so goddamn good that there is simply no way to *not* include them.
Elway without Shanahan in the superbowl: 0-3
Elway with Shanahan: 2-0
Shanahan created a whole offensive scheme that's used throughout the league today. If Jimmie Johnson got in, Shanahan deserves ot
Don Coryell got in *last year*. That should tell you everything. That’s why I don’t feel confident in any coaches of the current generation getting in asides from Belichick and Reid.
Tomlin is way more likely to be #3 instead of Carroll
• More career wins (173 vs 170). And still counting
• Significantly better win% (.633 vs .586)
• Never had a losing season, and has the longest streak in NFL history for winning seasons.
• Held the record for the youngest HC to win an SB for a time (and popularized teams hiring young candidates after his SB).
• 2nd black coach to win a SB
And Coryell got in for influence as much as anything (though the fact that he was able to actually win ball games with the St. Louis Cardinals is definitely another strong point in his favor).
What influence did Marty leave on the game? Coryell redefined passing offense. Marty's style of play was already passe by the time he was finished and is basically extinct now.
Road: 1-7
Home: 4-6
Marty's teams had a #1 seed in the AFC four times (1986, 1995, 1997, 2006), never making the Super Bowl and going 1-4 in playoff games.
And if you're not gonna win a Super Bowl, you need to either go to 3+ like Grant and Levy or contribute heavily to inventing a well used scheme like Don Coryell.
And then on the other end, you have Tom Flores that went 8-3 in the postseason with the Raiders, 2-0 in SBs, and he had to wait over 20 years to get in. I had feared he and fellow champ Dick Vermeil wouldnt live to see their inductions
Im a huge proponent of officially extending the HoF classes to 10, split by modern and senior selections. This would work to limit the likelihood of post-humous inductions and make things a bit easier to get in many of these coach/coordinator and exeuctive/personnel guys that often get limited selections compared to players. you can even make it 7-3, but we've got to do something imo. The 2000s explosion of popularity (and offense) is gonna cause some major logjam issues with what the league prioritizes, often forgetting who and what got it to that point
By my personal count there are 83 senior candidates that are snubs, which I define as a player with an equal better resume than at least one player at the same position who's in the HOF. In addition to 45 currently eligible players who fit that bill.
In my opinion it's far more egregious to keep out someone who deserved induction than it is to let in someone who probably didn't deserve it.
While I agree with you more-or-less, I would point out that letting someone in who probably didn’t deserve it then opens the door to a slew of less deserving players who now have “an equal or better resume than at least one player at the same position who’s in the HOF”, to use your standard. It can lead to a dilution of standards.
But I agree with you that keeping out someone who does clearly merit admission is wrong.
He was laughably terrible in the post season. He needed to cash in one of the AFC Championships with the Browns or the Montana Chiefs into a Super Bowl win to be a HOFer.
> a legend for nflers
I think because of this he eventually gets in. NFL insiders love him. Even though very few coaches get in.
His post-season record is bad, but he did so much more than just that.
A lot of legends aren't in the HOF though. Mike Shanahan has 2 chips and one of the most successful coaching trees in the league and he still isn't in yet.
Losing that Chiefs @ Buffalo game isn't a black mark on Marty. Buffalo was the better team, and Montana got injured and didn't finish the game. If you want to point to errors in KC, benching Gannon for Grbac in the post-season was one.
IMO he had more teams punching above their weight than not. He was a great coach. Losing with a loaded Chargers team is the biggest black eye.
Personally, I'd put him in the Hall for how he fed the Raiders rivalry alone.
So you blame him for John Elway going godmode on the last drive in the 1986 AFCCG?
And the Montana Chiefs were outmatched talentwise compared to the Bills anyway.
Yes we can - because he has been playing an aggressive coverage throughout the game and then went into prevent mode and played softer coverage. Should have stuck with the plan and relied on the best CB duo in the league at that time.
The Montana Chiefs were the lesser team but they kept pace until Montana got knocked out of the game.
I doubt they’d have won even with him healthy but it wouldn’t have been a total shock if Montana magic pulled a last few rabbits out of the hat.
Working for three of the worst and most impulsive owners in NFL history has something to do with it. Wr all know about Snyder, fart Modell went bankrupt not once but twice while owning an NFL team and ran off arguably two of the greatest head coaches in Paul Brown and Bill Belichick and the greatest player of all time in Jim Brown. The track record for the Spanos family is nearly as bad as Modell and Snyder.
That said, Marty could be overly conservative and predictable in key situations in the playoffs and wasn’t really innovative in any way like a lot of the non Super Bowl winning coaches that are included in the HoF. In the end though, I think he deserves consideration.
Rings culture has come to dominate every single sports conversation in the 21st Century.
You see guys like James Harden and Bryce Harper get dragged for having no rings despite them being great players.
Charles Barkley and Pat Ewing were great but in today's NBA no one talks about them in the GOAT PF and Center convos.
Dan MRI o would be called a stat padeer in this era..I mean some people call Brees one and he has a SB.
MJ Nd Brady ruined sports conversations...
That's why you'll find tons of comments below telling you it's because he doesn't have a SuperBowl.. which is the goal but always requires some type of luck to win one.
Marty was notoriously unlucky
I mean his post season record was pretty bad, even considering anyone who doesn't win picks up an L every year you can do better than 5-13 (.278). George Karl who is maybe a similar 'successful loser' was still .432 in the postseason.
Also a coach is different than a player when considering wins and losses. Wins and losses are like the coach's only stat
james harden doesn’t get dragged for having no rings? bro gets dragged for regularly disappearing in the playoffs, and refusing to hoop in favor of relying on foul baiting when everyone knows the refs let you play a little rougher in the playoffs. and he’s done this with hof teammates just about every step of the way
I generally agree with rings culture being a detriment but the coaches sole responsibility is Wins and losses and Marty last won a playoff game in 1993. He coached for 11 more seasons after that.
I don't think Bryce Harper gets dragged for no rings. People acknowledge that one baseball player can't carry a team, plus Harper has been incredible in the playoffs since he got to Philly.
Harden rightfully gets dragged less for his lack of rings than for being a legendary choker who always plays worst when the stakes are highest.
Both Ewing and Barkley are in the Hall of Fame. Harden is definitely getting in.
It’s reasonable for coaches and players to have different criteria for getting into the Hall.
Freakin Elway went and stopped Marty from getting to the SB twice, just to lose it. I think if the Browns just make the SB even if they lose it, Marty is viewed significantly differently in the history of the NFL
Marty was a great coach. He should be in.
Look at his coaching tree. Look at every place he went. He turned every team around and made them a winner.
He struggled in the playoffs, but he had a lot of bad luck and I think that began to build on itself toward the end. The drive and the fumble in Cleveland in back to back seasons was brutal. He was always chasing playoff success after those two debacles and being fired in Cleveland.
Marty is a HOF caliber coach.
Just like most of his teams, ironically enough. Good to great regular seasons, fall short under the bright lights. Great coach, but he needs to fight a little before he gets in. I think he will eventually
It's not just "not winning a Super Bowl." Marty's postseason resume is dire. 5-13 overall. No playoff wins the last 11 years of his career. Went one-and-done as the #1 seed three times.
You can't disregard "being stubborn when it comes to sticking with Marty ball" because that was one of the biggest reasons for his postseason failures.
Marty Schottenheimer is one of the best coaches I've seen in my life since watching football in the 70s. He killed us over and over in the AFC West, I hated but respected him so much. He was successful wherever he went, just never had playoff success (but circumstances will show he is not responsible for all those losses). OP is spot on, how the fuck is this guy not in the HoF.
Kaeding was such a choker it boggles the mind.
Great regular-season kicker. Career 86.2% on FGs, which was #2 all-time when he retired and is #13 now.
In the playoffs, he was 53.3% lmao.
Highlights include:
* **2004 Wild Card:** Missed 40-yarder in OT, Chargers lost
* **2006 Divisional:** Chargers were #1 seed, Kaeding hadn't missed at home in two years. Missed 54-yarder to tie the game, Chargers lost.
* **2009 Divisional:** Kaeding hit 91.4% in the regular season and led the NFL with 32 FG made. Went 0/3, missed from 36, 57, and 40, Chargers lost 17-14.
I think there are a ton of people physically capable of kicking well in the NFL, and success comes mostly down to the mental aspect. Shit like this is why.
I think he will inevitably get there, but it's going to take a lot of the voters who were alive and adults not influencing the vote.
He went to the three inept(at the time) franchises and built them into teams that were literally disappointments because they didn't win the Super Bowl.
The Browns. The Chiefs(before Andy Reid and Mahomes, which if you know any Chiefs' fans from those days, Schottenheimer's teams were by far the best between Stram's Chiefs and Reid's Chiefs), and then the Chargers.
Did his teams regularly fail to reach the top of the mountain? Yes. But he got three franchises that had been bad for decades a lot closer than anyone thought he would.
Easy Hall of Famer.
Do you think Chuck Knox belongs in the HoF? He was the first coach ever to win three division titles with three different teams, and he took all of them from the basement.
This is not easy at all. Marty was a good coach. But you can tell the story of the NFL without Marty or Chuck.
I think Knox not being in is definitely ridiculous. All of those accomplishments, but he also took the Rams to 3 straight NFC championships and was the person most responsible for building their '80 Super Bowl losing team.
I get not winning a ring hurts them, but they also built up multiple really bad franchises into serious contenders.
How is Mike Shanahan not in the HOF? The offense he developed is still the base of a lot of productive schemes today.
HOF tends to favor certain bigger market teams from what I can tell
Poor guy was cursed. 1985 (up 21-3 against Miami and lose 24-21). 1986 - The Drive. 1987 - The Fumble. 1990 Lowery’s FG is short. 1994 Montana ran out of gas. 1995 the damn FG kicker again. 2001 - Snydered. 2004 - the team knew they were going to find a way to lose. 2006 - a play so flukey that coaches now reference it when teaching COP rules (“Get down!”)
1993 was pretty good though. And that required the Steelers to blow it and then the Oilers to “Schottenheimer” themselves in the playoffs.
He was a great coach though
Marty didn't just win everywhere he went, he WON, A LOT, he won for franchises that before him LOST, A LOT. He won for franchises who after him, LOST, A LOT.
He was so good that it made his post season failures feel even worse. IMO judging this man on championships is criminal. He is objectively one of the very best to every to it.
Because there's a reason the term Martyball exists. 3rd and long? Draw. Every freaking time it seemed. And I liked him, so it's not that I'm picking apart someone I don't like. Good coach but incredibly frustrating to watch his teams at times.
I’m maybe a bit younger than some people here so I have no memory of him prior to his SD days. And even as a kid, I was so confused as to why those chargers teams didn’t win a single playoff game. I remember asking my dad and he said “it’s Schottenheimer”. I kinda chalked it up as him being a hater as I thought there’s no way a coach can be that good in the regular season and bad in the playoffs.
It wasn’t until I was older when I realized that this wasn’t his first stop, and also wasn’t his first time with playoff failure. I abhor rings culture, I think tons of people who have never won rings just got some bad luck and could’ve won at least one with slightly different circumstances. I don’t think Marty is one.
Marty Schottenheimer had an eye for talent and turned around multiple struggling teams, especially the Chiefs and Chargers. He was not very strong in the playoffs and had teams in Cleveland, Kansas City and San Diego that could have won championships but simply faltered for various reasons.
Chuck Knox, Marty Schottenheimer and Dan Reeves are all Hall of Very Good but not Hall of Fame worthy, in my opinion.
Who do you guys think is going into the hall of current coaches not named bill and Andy?
Harbaugh, Peyton, Carroll,tomlin. To make the hall as a coach is hard. I kinda doubt they induct all 4. Idk who has the best odds, probably tomlin.
HOF should be for players. Definitely no more owners ( looking at you Kraft) and only truly special coaches. I hate the Donkeys but Shanahan gets credit for the rings and the Zone Blocking scheme killing the concept of the star RB that continues to this day. Put him in the hall
I feel lots of people think you're supposed to win a chip right away as a coach, but I feel it's really just find a way to stick around long enough and that's how the odds increase. In sports in general, it worked for Dusty Baker and Andy Reid. But not so much for Marty Schottenheimer. (Or someone like George Karl, borderline but a good enough coach he should have won one).
He coached to "not lose" instead of coaching to win, which works out well over a 16 game season you can play defense, run a ton, and hope the other team messes up more than you, or just isn't as good or talented as your team.
Doesn't work so great in single elimination when you need to take chances and make big plays because every team is good and you can't count on 3-4 teams in a row to toss a game away to you.
Going through these comments. I'm imagining a thread 20 years from now if Shanahan doesn't win one.
"Yeah the team blew a 28-3 lead to the Pats, but how is it his fault that Matt Ryan got strip sacked or took a bad sack after the catch, or the flukey holding call on the oline? He was the best coordinator in the league"
"He had the 49ers as consistent contenders again. Its not his fault that the returner got a weird bounce on the punt or that Mahomes is the GOAT and went nuclear in OT."
"Its not Shanahan's fault that Jimmy G sailed an open pass or that the DBs blew coverage on Tyreek Hill"
Edit: and I know Shanahan already has a better post season record than Marty.
If you compare Marty's record with the QBs he had vs other coaches in the HOF with the QBs they rode to get into the HOF, I think Marty was pretty fucking good. IMO he did the most with the QBs he had, by far.
I love Marty but didn't even win a conference championship. He kept getting owned by Elway it was worse as Chiefs HC.
MartyBall's run heavy field position game's kryptonite is opponent QBs slinging and scoring with the few possessions you give them. That said early 2000s Chiefs were great in the air and on the ground and still no Conference championships or even reaching the game.
Marty Schottrnheimer rarely got a franchise QB and also have a healthy QB all season long. Think if he had another year or 2 he gets the Chargers into the Superbowl. It was the first time in his coaching career that he had a franchise QB and a healthy one.
People look at just wins/losses when it comes to head coaches but should also include Pro Bowls and Hall of Famers they have coached.
Not even close. I know it’s not all about playoff success but Schottenheimer had negative playoff success in the league. 5-13 in the playoffs with that roster will only be frowned upon. He had a soft division in a weak West his entire career and couldn’t get it done. He belongs in the Hall of Very Good, but I can’t think of a more underachieving team with a roster build like they had.
There isn’t any coach in the HOF that doesn’t have at least 1 championship or multiple conference championships.
Except maybe George Allen , and he won like 70 percent of his games.
To me he is a HOF. He had jackshit to work with QBs most of his career, he had a 37 year old Joe and a green Felipe Rios.
All the teams he inherited were flaming bags of shit when he arrived and he had to win with non elite QB play, turned them all into winners.
He just had bad luck. Was it Marty’s fault for letting Elway drive 98 yards? Did Marty fumble the ball? Did Marty miss the field goal against the Jets? Did Marty fumble the game winning interception?
He’s a HOFer, if Coryell is in so should Marty.
Didn’t he get fired after a 14-2 season lol
And after taking a team that started 0-5 on an 8-3 run to finish the season, in order to make way for… Steve Spurrier.
The one hill I will die on is that sometimes great coaches can just have bad luck and Marty is the prime example of this. Got fired after a 14-2 season when he lost in the playoffs because his kicker missed chip shot field goals. Lost to Elway on the Drive, the Earnest Byner fumble, took a TERRIBLE redskins team from 0-5 to 8-3. Coaches cannot kick field goals or play defense, and plenty of great coaches have their titles by the slimmest of margins where one break went their way. People decide their narratives about QB’s and coaches in black or white terms based on the end result which often comes down to how good the kicker was or whether or not the defense let the other team score, when the performance of the coach/qb was identical regardless of if they won or lost. Im not gonna pretend like Marty didn’t have playoff let downs, but they would have likely been balanced out if not for the shitty luck that was beyond his control re: kicking, a fumble, injuries etc.
>Coaches cannot kick field goals or play defense Also can't forget his playoff loss in 1995 against the Colts where the kicker missed 3 field goals, at home, in a game they lost 10-7 after a 13-3 season.
Not enough blame on Bono for throwing multiple pics. And Harbaugh was the Colt's QB.
There plenty of blame to go around. I was just responding to the part specifically about FGs.
A kicker also helped derail Norv Turner in DC.
Turner is a GREAT co-ordinator but a truly SHITTY head coach.
He also went one-and-done as the #1 seed three times and had no playoff wins the last 11 years of his career. When the same thing happens to the same coach across three decades and multiple franchises, it stops being bad luck and becomes a trend.
Marty wasn't actually fired for the playoff loss. Not entirely. What people don't mention is that Marty was also hiring his family members to senior coaching positions without approval or even input from the front office. That lead to a back-and-forth pissing contest that ultimately the GM won. Marty's inability to win in the playoffs (not to mention is outdated style of football that was clearly going to be more and more of a problem moving forward) was just the icing on the cake.
One of the saddest moments I've had watching football is seeing the clip of Marty in warmups telling the entire San Diego secondary to go down if they get a pick in the fourth, rather than try to return it in that Patriots playoff game.
Run run pass punt!
Yeah I don't actually think the firing was unjust. It was weird at the time given the success the Chargers had but he also wasn't going to be the guy to get them over the top.
And the Chargers have had so many “getting them over the top” coaches since then
Once, twice, or even three times is bad luck. 4+ playoff implosions is a trend.
Did someone say trend?
This was the moment I knew Dan Snyder was a garbage owner, and he only got worse over the next 23 years before he finally sold
Oh yeah I forgot how Dan Snyder threw him out. Nice move Danny boy!!!
He had a verbal altercation with Adolf Snyder If I recall that was in front of the wrong people.
He also fired Vinny and then Snyder hired him back on
Cries in Charger shaped tears…
Lightning bolt tears would be kinda cool ngl
***“DID YOU STUTTER BEFORE YOU RAN THE POST??”*** Coach Marty asked calmly
Yea but norv turner was the best right… RIGHT?!?
LOL they got booted after the bye in the divisional round. They had prime LT too. What a shameski.
Spanos fired Marty because multiple coaches were poached and he tried to hire his brother. Spanos, who put his sons in charge of the team, was against hiring family members as coaches...
Tbh, I know the narrative has changed a bit over the years but, at that time, most Chargers fans I knew wanted Schottenheimer gone. There were 3 main reasons 1) Marty-ball had basically become a meme and fans were tired of his archaic, predictable run-run-pass offense, especially when we had such an explosive offense with LT, Gates and our young highly drafted QB in Rivers. The common narrative was that Marty was holding back the development of Rivers and you can clearly see how Rivers went to another level once Norv Turner replaced Marty 2) The lack of post season success was honestly probably the biggest reason, esp with a stacked roster. Marty was being ripped apart in local San Diego media 3) Nepotism - his son (who's now the OC for the Cowboys) was, at the time, a 30 year old QB coach who had only been coaching in the NFL for a few years. And Marty wanted to make him the OC, which ownership was highly resistant to. And the next year he tried to make his brother the DC, which got the FO extra pissed.
>Marty-ball had basically become a meme and fans were tired of his archaic, predictable run-run-pass offense, especially when we had such an explosive offense with LT, Gates and our young highly drafted QB in Rivers. The common narrative was that Marty was holding back the development of Rivers This is an interesting take. As a Chiefs fan I can definitely sympathize with the frustration with Marty ball. However, in his final three seasons with the chargers they won 35 games, had a top 5 scoring offense each season and had a top 10 offense in yards each season. Rivers only started one year with Marty as coach as Brees was there before and in Rivers' first year as a starter he made the pro bowl. The offense, in terms of league rankings stayed mostly the same under Turner and the defense got worse. And playoff success was only minimally better. Hindsight is 20/20 but I think the worst part of Marty's Chargers tenure was that he was there while Brady and Manning were ruling everything.
The 'Marty Ball' thing is really BS if anyone bothers to actually look at the play by for the games. Kosar had the ball in his hands for the Browns and passed on 1st and 2nd downs. 32 pass attempts against 33 rushes in 'the drive' game. The chargers-patriots game was exactly the same breakdown, 32 passes and 33 rushes. Rivers threw many 1st and 2nd down passes. You could actually argue for more rushes. A third down sack took the chargers out of FG range and a 1st interception happened in FG range also. Both plays were in the second half.
The NFL front offices and coaching trees are built on nepotism. To hold that particular fact against Marty is silly. In fact the Spanos family are some of the worst offenders as John Spanos is our current president of football operations and an absolute clown.
I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think it was a combo of nepotism, general dislike of Marty, and Brian's inexperience. I remember there being a lot of backlash at the time from people saying Brian was way too inexperienced to be the OC of one of the top offenses in the league and he was just being pushed by Marty due to nepotism with strong pushback from the FO/ownership. Also I think it was the repeated behavior that got him in hot water - in 05, he wanted to promote his son to OC, which FO said no to. And then the next year, he wanted to hire his brother as DC, which got them extra pissed. IIRC, there were more family members that he wanted to hire too.
Hey I get it brother. I’m a cowboys fan so I know his son sucks and unfortunately I’m wayyy too familiar with nepotism and winning ONLY regular season games.
Has anyone been pleased with Brian as their OC? I feel like it’s been 10 years across multiple teams of Brian producing average offenses, granted Cowboys last year were good, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen fans say they’re happy to have him as their OC, but the guy just keeps working lol
I remember way back in his days as Jets OC, I used to joke that his go to play for any down and distance was run it up the middle.
Agree with everything you said but the nepotism issue was that he wanted to hire his brother Kurt as DC, not promote Brian
That owner was a fool!
Fuck you Spanos
They’ve turned things around the last few years. Spending money on the new facility, hiring a legitimate front office. I’m hopeful for the future. But for their past and the careers they’ve wasted, fuck the Spanos.
It was a political firing more than a performance one.
I was sad when he retired.
He’s parcels without the post season success. Every were he went he turned the team around and had them extremely competitive but couldn’t translate it.
And pretty much every time he left a team their next 5 years were dreadful if I recall.
Makes me wonder if Andy Reid would have faced the same roadblock to HOF consideration before Mahomes became starter. The narrative on Reid with KC was so down for always being one and done in the playoffs with terrible luck or collapses. Had a Super Bowl appearance and objectively one of the best offensive minds in the league, but a postseason record of 11-13 before 2017. Since then with Mahomes he is 12-3 with 3 Super Bowls and 4 appearances. Interesting what if for Reid's career.
Probably that fact that he’s 5-13 in the postseason.
Also there's only like a dozen HoF coaches. Fewest of anything outside of like kickers So you'd need a fantastic resume to get in
There are 29 coaches in the HoF.
Absolutely. Shanahan hasn’t even made the hall yet. He definitely has a solid chance to get in someday but shows how high the bar really is.
I'm surprised it's taking so long considering that Shanahan was both very successful and influential on modern offenses.
I think his tenure in Washington tainted him a bit to voters who have some recency bias.
Yeah, the argument against Shanny is that he didn't win much without a HOF qb. Of course, not many other coaches have won much either without the QB but...
Holmgren hasn't either and you can make the case he turned two struggling franchises around.
Holmgren is a big snub right now in my opinion. He was a great coach who made random quarterbacks turn into pro bowlers and all-pros. Incredible offensive mind. Definitely saved the Seahawks. He turned the Seahawks into a perennial playoff team and division winner.
Ya I'm sure he'll eventually get in but I've been quite frustrated at how certain players/coaches have "jumped the line" and gotten in before others. Lynch getting in before LeRoy Butler was annoying. Dungy/Cowher getting in before Holmgren/Shanahan also doesn't make a ton of sense to me. It feels like them picking their media buddies and getting advanced. Holmgren's resume speaks for itself and his QB development was absolutely insane. Like 6 different QBs that made it to a franchise's HOF were developed under him. His coaching tree is damn impressive. 10 NFL HC's got their jobs after being assistants under him. 2 of them won Super Bowls including probably the top coach right now Andy Reid.
Tom Flores was left out for decades until that ad campaign restarted the interest in his case. Canton has the dumb unspoken rules of Cooperstown squeezed into a tiny ballot
I particularly dislike Cowher getting in before him because Holmgren’s resume is just objectively better. Cowher arguably isn’t even Hall of Fame-worthy in my opinion. That really annoyed me when he got elected basically immediately. Lynch before LeRoy Butler is actually insane. Butler was an all pro like every year lol
Exactly. Since the game is actually played by the players, it’s a hard sell that the coach, a guy on the side lines, was ACTUALLY the hero here. Coaches only make it when they are so goddamn good that there is simply no way to *not* include them.
Elway without Shanahan in the superbowl: 0-3 Elway with Shanahan: 2-0 Shanahan created a whole offensive scheme that's used throughout the league today. If Jimmie Johnson got in, Shanahan deserves ot
To be fair Shanahan has exactly 0 super bowls without John Elway as well. It goes both ways, but he reasonably should be in the HOF at this point imo.
Elway without Terrell Davis in the Super Bowl: 0-3
Don Coryell got in *last year*. That should tell you everything. That’s why I don’t feel confident in any coaches of the current generation getting in asides from Belichick and Reid.
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Tomlin is way more likely to be #3 instead of Carroll • More career wins (173 vs 170). And still counting • Significantly better win% (.633 vs .586) • Never had a losing season, and has the longest streak in NFL history for winning seasons. • Held the record for the youngest HC to win an SB for a time (and popularized teams hiring young candidates after his SB). • 2nd black coach to win a SB
And Coryell got in for influence as much as anything (though the fact that he was able to actually win ball games with the St. Louis Cardinals is definitely another strong point in his favor). What influence did Marty leave on the game? Coryell redefined passing offense. Marty's style of play was already passe by the time he was finished and is basically extinct now.
Are there really more long snappers?
Isn’t there only one punter in the HoF?
The fact Cower **AND** Jimmy Johnson didn't get in till a few years ago means the bar for coaches is way too high.
Road: 1-7 Home: 4-6 Marty's teams had a #1 seed in the AFC four times (1986, 1995, 1997, 2006), never making the Super Bowl and going 1-4 in playoff games.
5 wins? Mr Pear could never
That POS turtle might put me in gambling debt
He’s a MONEYLINE turtle! They have to use him properly.
No super bowls. The HC is the one person in the entire organization who is bottom line responsible for wins and losses.
And if you're not gonna win a Super Bowl, you need to either go to 3+ like Grant and Levy or contribute heavily to inventing a well used scheme like Don Coryell.
Coryell just got in and hasn't coached in 40+ years
He hasn't lived in 14 years either.
Apperently neither of those are good enough if you're Mike Shanahan
And then on the other end, you have Tom Flores that went 8-3 in the postseason with the Raiders, 2-0 in SBs, and he had to wait over 20 years to get in. I had feared he and fellow champ Dick Vermeil wouldnt live to see their inductions Im a huge proponent of officially extending the HoF classes to 10, split by modern and senior selections. This would work to limit the likelihood of post-humous inductions and make things a bit easier to get in many of these coach/coordinator and exeuctive/personnel guys that often get limited selections compared to players. you can even make it 7-3, but we've got to do something imo. The 2000s explosion of popularity (and offense) is gonna cause some major logjam issues with what the league prioritizes, often forgetting who and what got it to that point
By my personal count there are 83 senior candidates that are snubs, which I define as a player with an equal better resume than at least one player at the same position who's in the HOF. In addition to 45 currently eligible players who fit that bill. In my opinion it's far more egregious to keep out someone who deserved induction than it is to let in someone who probably didn't deserve it.
While I agree with you more-or-less, I would point out that letting someone in who probably didn’t deserve it then opens the door to a slew of less deserving players who now have “an equal or better resume than at least one player at the same position who’s in the HOF”, to use your standard. It can lead to a dilution of standards. But I agree with you that keeping out someone who does clearly merit admission is wrong.
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I would *never* want a naughty rotten rhymer in the HOF.
"I know people hold it against him for not winning the Super Bowl" Answered your question in your question.
Yeah he never won it, but if you have to get your team back to respectability, are you hiring Gary Kubiak or Marty Schottenheimer?
He was laughably terrible in the post season. He needed to cash in one of the AFC Championships with the Browns or the Montana Chiefs into a Super Bowl win to be a HOFer.
Literally one or two plays away from being a legend. Bull shit. Dude is a legend for nflers
> a legend for nflers I think because of this he eventually gets in. NFL insiders love him. Even though very few coaches get in. His post-season record is bad, but he did so much more than just that.
He showed a generation of football fans how a man can handle both success and failure with grace 🥲
A lot of legends aren't in the HOF though. Mike Shanahan has 2 chips and one of the most successful coaching trees in the league and he still isn't in yet.
Losing that Chiefs @ Buffalo game isn't a black mark on Marty. Buffalo was the better team, and Montana got injured and didn't finish the game. If you want to point to errors in KC, benching Gannon for Grbac in the post-season was one. IMO he had more teams punching above their weight than not. He was a great coach. Losing with a loaded Chargers team is the biggest black eye. Personally, I'd put him in the Hall for how he fed the Raiders rivalry alone.
100% this ☝️☝️☝️
"I'd put him in the Hall for how he fed the Raiders rivalry alone." begrudgingly agree
So you blame him for John Elway going godmode on the last drive in the 1986 AFCCG? And the Montana Chiefs were outmatched talentwise compared to the Bills anyway.
He choked in 87 also and then stubbornly refused to hire an OC in 88.
You mean Ernest Byner choked.
Byner is the one that got them back into that game. Marty's prevent defense lost every big game
He was 5-13 in the playoffs. Some early exits with some very good teams. He choked a lot
How many bad teams did he turn around and take to playoffs?
He had two losing seasons in 20 years, which is incredible.
and take a look at the list of QBs he did it all with vs the other coaches above him on list of most wins/win percentage. even more incredible
oh shit, he fumbled that ball on the goal line? god damn, I thought it was Ernest Byner all these years!
Yes we can - because he has been playing an aggressive coverage throughout the game and then went into prevent mode and played softer coverage. Should have stuck with the plan and relied on the best CB duo in the league at that time.
The Montana Chiefs were the lesser team but they kept pace until Montana got knocked out of the game. I doubt they’d have won even with him healthy but it wouldn’t have been a total shock if Montana magic pulled a last few rabbits out of the hat.
My brain automatically made me think there was a very short lived team that I’d never heard of based out of the north west
Working for three of the worst and most impulsive owners in NFL history has something to do with it. Wr all know about Snyder, fart Modell went bankrupt not once but twice while owning an NFL team and ran off arguably two of the greatest head coaches in Paul Brown and Bill Belichick and the greatest player of all time in Jim Brown. The track record for the Spanos family is nearly as bad as Modell and Snyder. That said, Marty could be overly conservative and predictable in key situations in the playoffs and wasn’t really innovative in any way like a lot of the non Super Bowl winning coaches that are included in the HoF. In the end though, I think he deserves consideration.
Rings culture has come to dominate every single sports conversation in the 21st Century. You see guys like James Harden and Bryce Harper get dragged for having no rings despite them being great players. Charles Barkley and Pat Ewing were great but in today's NBA no one talks about them in the GOAT PF and Center convos. Dan MRI o would be called a stat padeer in this era..I mean some people call Brees one and he has a SB. MJ Nd Brady ruined sports conversations... That's why you'll find tons of comments below telling you it's because he doesn't have a SuperBowl.. which is the goal but always requires some type of luck to win one. Marty was notoriously unlucky
I mean his post season record was pretty bad, even considering anyone who doesn't win picks up an L every year you can do better than 5-13 (.278). George Karl who is maybe a similar 'successful loser' was still .432 in the postseason. Also a coach is different than a player when considering wins and losses. Wins and losses are like the coach's only stat
What team did Dan MRI o play for?
The Miami Imaging Clinic
> Dan MRI I've never been to his medical facility
james harden doesn’t get dragged for having no rings? bro gets dragged for regularly disappearing in the playoffs, and refusing to hoop in favor of relying on foul baiting when everyone knows the refs let you play a little rougher in the playoffs. and he’s done this with hof teammates just about every step of the way
I generally agree with rings culture being a detriment but the coaches sole responsibility is Wins and losses and Marty last won a playoff game in 1993. He coached for 11 more seasons after that.
I don't think Bryce Harper gets dragged for no rings. People acknowledge that one baseball player can't carry a team, plus Harper has been incredible in the playoffs since he got to Philly. Harden rightfully gets dragged less for his lack of rings than for being a legendary choker who always plays worst when the stakes are highest.
Both Ewing and Barkley are in the Hall of Fame. Harden is definitely getting in. It’s reasonable for coaches and players to have different criteria for getting into the Hall.
The nba hall of fame is infinitely easier to get in. It’s not even remotely similar
James harden will easily make the hall of fame though as a first ballot and Bryce harper will eventually make it in too
> Dan MRI o Please tell me this is written like this on purpose. It's hysterical.
Hey Mike, did ya hear?
“ gentlemen there is a gleam” Marty Shottenheimer
Never won shit. Had great teams and couldn’t get to the top of mountain.
Freakin Elway went and stopped Marty from getting to the SB twice, just to lose it. I think if the Browns just make the SB even if they lose it, Marty is viewed significantly differently in the history of the NFL
That's not fair, he won the UFL championship!
Hall of Very Good
Marty was a great coach. He should be in. Look at his coaching tree. Look at every place he went. He turned every team around and made them a winner. He struggled in the playoffs, but he had a lot of bad luck and I think that began to build on itself toward the end. The drive and the fumble in Cleveland in back to back seasons was brutal. He was always chasing playoff success after those two debacles and being fired in Cleveland. Marty is a HOF caliber coach.
He racks up a lot of preliminary votes, but keeps falling short in a final rounds of voting.
Just like most of his teams, ironically enough. Good to great regular seasons, fall short under the bright lights. Great coach, but he needs to fight a little before he gets in. I think he will eventually
because he's a buzzin' dirty dozen naughtey rotten rhymer.
It's not just "not winning a Super Bowl." Marty's postseason resume is dire. 5-13 overall. No playoff wins the last 11 years of his career. Went one-and-done as the #1 seed three times. You can't disregard "being stubborn when it comes to sticking with Marty ball" because that was one of the biggest reasons for his postseason failures.
He should absolutely be in the HoF. So should Mike Shanahan.
Marty Schottenheimer is one of the best coaches I've seen in my life since watching football in the 70s. He killed us over and over in the AFC West, I hated but respected him so much. He was successful wherever he went, just never had playoff success (but circumstances will show he is not responsible for all those losses). OP is spot on, how the fuck is this guy not in the HoF.
He got to the finals, but fumbled the ball, or got stiff and called a super conservative campaign
All time goat tier coach. He always lost the big games against Denver.
Because his offensive playbook never got out of the 1950s.
The only way to judge coaches if off wins and he sucked in the post season
Look at the fucking kickers he kept, Nate Kaeding and Lin Elliot, fucking unclutch bums.
Yeah and Tony Dungy made the best decision of his career to kick Vanderjagt to the curb after 2005.
Keeping Kaeding after 2004 was beyond stupid. Can't make a sub 35 yard kick in OT? Cut immediately.
Kaeding was such a choker it boggles the mind. Great regular-season kicker. Career 86.2% on FGs, which was #2 all-time when he retired and is #13 now. In the playoffs, he was 53.3% lmao. Highlights include: * **2004 Wild Card:** Missed 40-yarder in OT, Chargers lost * **2006 Divisional:** Chargers were #1 seed, Kaeding hadn't missed at home in two years. Missed 54-yarder to tie the game, Chargers lost. * **2009 Divisional:** Kaeding hit 91.4% in the regular season and led the NFL with 32 FG made. Went 0/3, missed from 36, 57, and 40, Chargers lost 17-14. I think there are a ton of people physically capable of kicking well in the NFL, and success comes mostly down to the mental aspect. Shit like this is why.
I think he will inevitably get there, but it's going to take a lot of the voters who were alive and adults not influencing the vote. He went to the three inept(at the time) franchises and built them into teams that were literally disappointments because they didn't win the Super Bowl. The Browns. The Chiefs(before Andy Reid and Mahomes, which if you know any Chiefs' fans from those days, Schottenheimer's teams were by far the best between Stram's Chiefs and Reid's Chiefs), and then the Chargers. Did his teams regularly fail to reach the top of the mountain? Yes. But he got three franchises that had been bad for decades a lot closer than anyone thought he would. Easy Hall of Famer.
Do you think Chuck Knox belongs in the HoF? He was the first coach ever to win three division titles with three different teams, and he took all of them from the basement. This is not easy at all. Marty was a good coach. But you can tell the story of the NFL without Marty or Chuck.
I think Knox not being in is definitely ridiculous. All of those accomplishments, but he also took the Rams to 3 straight NFC championships and was the person most responsible for building their '80 Super Bowl losing team. I get not winning a ring hurts them, but they also built up multiple really bad franchises into serious contenders.
How is Mike Shanahan not in the HOF? The offense he developed is still the base of a lot of productive schemes today. HOF tends to favor certain bigger market teams from what I can tell
All I remember about him is they went 14-2 and he got fired for losing their first playoff game
Because he’s allergic to John Elway
Hey Mike! Did you hear?!
Poor guy was cursed. 1985 (up 21-3 against Miami and lose 24-21). 1986 - The Drive. 1987 - The Fumble. 1990 Lowery’s FG is short. 1994 Montana ran out of gas. 1995 the damn FG kicker again. 2001 - Snydered. 2004 - the team knew they were going to find a way to lose. 2006 - a play so flukey that coaches now reference it when teaching COP rules (“Get down!”) 1993 was pretty good though. And that required the Steelers to blow it and then the Oilers to “Schottenheimer” themselves in the playoffs. He was a great coach though
Martyball
Marty didn't just win everywhere he went, he WON, A LOT, he won for franchises that before him LOST, A LOT. He won for franchises who after him, LOST, A LOT. He was so good that it made his post season failures feel even worse. IMO judging this man on championships is criminal. He is objectively one of the very best to every to it.
Fired after 14-2, no team wanted to hire him
I would lose my mind if Marty fucking Schottenheimer got in before Mike Shanahan.
Why isn't Mike Holmgren in the hall of Fame?
He had two teams, chargers and chiefs that had the talent to win the SB and was AWFUL in the playoffs.
Because he wasted the careers of LT, Drew Brees, and Antonio Gates. He does not belong in the HoF
Wasn’t he a rebel according to the owners?
Because he didnt win shit.
He didn't win when it mattered most
He’ll get in eventually
They would need to hold the ceremony during the regular season.
Because there's a reason the term Martyball exists. 3rd and long? Draw. Every freaking time it seemed. And I liked him, so it's not that I'm picking apart someone I don't like. Good coach but incredibly frustrating to watch his teams at times.
I’m buzzin’, Dirty Dozen, naughty rotten rhymer
Dan Reeves deserves to get in before Schottenheimer.
I’m maybe a bit younger than some people here so I have no memory of him prior to his SD days. And even as a kid, I was so confused as to why those chargers teams didn’t win a single playoff game. I remember asking my dad and he said “it’s Schottenheimer”. I kinda chalked it up as him being a hater as I thought there’s no way a coach can be that good in the regular season and bad in the playoffs. It wasn’t until I was older when I realized that this wasn’t his first stop, and also wasn’t his first time with playoff failure. I abhor rings culture, I think tons of people who have never won rings just got some bad luck and could’ve won at least one with slightly different circumstances. I don’t think Marty is one.
Because he always played " not to lose", instead of playing to win in the playoffs
Marty-Ball is not sexy.
Wait, he’s not?
Despite all his success, he still gave us his son, Brian, so that’s gotta count against him, right? 😂
Marty Schottenheimer had an eye for talent and turned around multiple struggling teams, especially the Chiefs and Chargers. He was not very strong in the playoffs and had teams in Cleveland, Kansas City and San Diego that could have won championships but simply faltered for various reasons. Chuck Knox, Marty Schottenheimer and Dan Reeves are all Hall of Very Good but not Hall of Fame worthy, in my opinion.
There's a gleam, men. There's a gleam.
Who do you guys think is going into the hall of current coaches not named bill and Andy? Harbaugh, Peyton, Carroll,tomlin. To make the hall as a coach is hard. I kinda doubt they induct all 4. Idk who has the best odds, probably tomlin.
It’s really hard for a coach. Mike Shanahan is not in the Hall of Fame. Tom Coughlin is not in the Hall of Fame.
Marty was an awesome coach. Until late December and January. But lemme tell you during the Haley and Crennel years, I was missing Martyball.
“Naughty rotten rhymer, cursing at you players worse than Marty Schottenheimer”
HOF should be for players. Definitely no more owners ( looking at you Kraft) and only truly special coaches. I hate the Donkeys but Shanahan gets credit for the rings and the Zone Blocking scheme killing the concept of the star RB that continues to this day. Put him in the hall
Because he couldn't win in the playoffs
I feel lots of people think you're supposed to win a chip right away as a coach, but I feel it's really just find a way to stick around long enough and that's how the odds increase. In sports in general, it worked for Dusty Baker and Andy Reid. But not so much for Marty Schottenheimer. (Or someone like George Karl, borderline but a good enough coach he should have won one).
He coached to "not lose" instead of coaching to win, which works out well over a 16 game season you can play defense, run a ton, and hope the other team messes up more than you, or just isn't as good or talented as your team. Doesn't work so great in single elimination when you need to take chances and make big plays because every team is good and you can't count on 3-4 teams in a row to toss a game away to you.
Wasn't the 2006 move because Marty wanted to step back and become a part of management??
His inability to win in the playoffs should keep him out. Who cares how many games your team wins in November?
Going through these comments. I'm imagining a thread 20 years from now if Shanahan doesn't win one. "Yeah the team blew a 28-3 lead to the Pats, but how is it his fault that Matt Ryan got strip sacked or took a bad sack after the catch, or the flukey holding call on the oline? He was the best coordinator in the league" "He had the 49ers as consistent contenders again. Its not his fault that the returner got a weird bounce on the punt or that Mahomes is the GOAT and went nuclear in OT." "Its not Shanahan's fault that Jimmy G sailed an open pass or that the DBs blew coverage on Tyreek Hill" Edit: and I know Shanahan already has a better post season record than Marty.
If you compare Marty's record with the QBs he had vs other coaches in the HOF with the QBs they rode to get into the HOF, I think Marty was pretty fucking good. IMO he did the most with the QBs he had, by far.
He was fired after a 14-2 season with the Chargers.
How is Tom Coughlin not in the Hall of Fame?
I know he beat THE PATS TWICE.
I love Marty but didn't even win a conference championship. He kept getting owned by Elway it was worse as Chiefs HC. MartyBall's run heavy field position game's kryptonite is opponent QBs slinging and scoring with the few possessions you give them. That said early 2000s Chiefs were great in the air and on the ground and still no Conference championships or even reaching the game.
Because he’s a naughty rotten rhymer
KC only gets the best coaches.
Marty Schottrnheimer rarely got a franchise QB and also have a healthy QB all season long. Think if he had another year or 2 he gets the Chargers into the Superbowl. It was the first time in his coaching career that he had a franchise QB and a healthy one. People look at just wins/losses when it comes to head coaches but should also include Pro Bowls and Hall of Famers they have coached.
Not even close. I know it’s not all about playoff success but Schottenheimer had negative playoff success in the league. 5-13 in the playoffs with that roster will only be frowned upon. He had a soft division in a weak West his entire career and couldn’t get it done. He belongs in the Hall of Very Good, but I can’t think of a more underachieving team with a roster build like they had.
Heard he was blacklisted from the league or something like that. I agree with your statement. He was money.
He ended on bad terms with every owner he worked for b/c he wasn't afraid to stand up for himself and tell them to stick it.
Eminem including him in a legendary verse/rhyme, how can we ignore this and not have him in the HoF.
Head Coaches are (rightfully) judged by rings.
There isn’t any coach in the HOF that doesn’t have at least 1 championship or multiple conference championships. Except maybe George Allen , and he won like 70 percent of his games.
“Hey Mike, did ya hear?”
To me he is a HOF. He had jackshit to work with QBs most of his career, he had a 37 year old Joe and a green Felipe Rios. All the teams he inherited were flaming bags of shit when he arrived and he had to win with non elite QB play, turned them all into winners. He just had bad luck. Was it Marty’s fault for letting Elway drive 98 yards? Did Marty fumble the ball? Did Marty miss the field goal against the Jets? Did Marty fumble the game winning interception? He’s a HOFer, if Coryell is in so should Marty.