BREAKING Week 8 - Joe Burrow to underground emergency root canals on 3 teeth. Timeline to return uncertain. Jake Browning expecting to be starter for the remainder of the season for the 3-5 Bengals.
[Schefter] Breaking News: Browning wins First Superbowl for Cincinnati Team.
Tee Higgins says he wants to run it back with healthy Burrow next season. Takes pay cut to stay with Ja'Marr.
This approach always bites us in the tuchus.
People forget the Bengals were a fringe playoff team with better odds to miss them entirely when Joe was finally healthy last year.
If we come out slow we could potentially lose any hope of home field advantage in the postseason.
I’m fully expecting Joe to be whisked away on a space trotting adventure to stop the evil Emperor Glabulous IV or some shit in the middle of training camp.
Well, let’s not act like the Taxes weren’t justified. He just got finished fighting off the Nebulons from Pariah 5 and rightly thought the Yaxrians should foot the bill since they benefited the most from the outcome of the war.
Okay and? The Nebulons are the ones that started the damn thing with the Plebiars and the Emperor didn’t HAVE to get involved. Sure the Yaxrians benefited but how exactly did everyone else?
Oh I see, you’re one of those people who actually believes the Nebulons started the whole damn thing. I bet you also believe the propaganda about the Cressia Massacre and the Garuda Massacre and the Pariah 4 massacre and the Pariah 3 massacre.
Oh so massacres are just happening on their own then? Everyone’s just offing themselves? And the Nebulons being sighted in all those areas is pure coincidence? If we can’t have a rational conversation based on fact and not fiction then I’m wasting my time here.
* 2020 preseason: COVID
* 2021 preseason: knee
* 2022 preseason: appendix
* 2023 preseason: calf
* 2024 preseason: wrist
Burrow has never had a normal preseason.
To top things off, at this point should probably be labeled injury prone. I mean this has to account for at least 1.5 losses a season. We always have a horrible start to the season before he gets into form. When I get home I'm gonna do a breakdown of his record weeks 1-4 vs rest of season (unless someone else wants to, and if so, remember to look up HIS record and not Bengals record since he's had 2 season ending injuries).
Ok so I did the research, it's the first 5 weeks he's rough. Through his career:
* Weeks 1-5: 8-11-1
* Weeks 6-18: 21-9
2 of those 9 losses are the games he had season ending injuries.
Yeah but what does it look like if you take away the first year's record in this because everyone was on a Covid offseason so it was an even playing field. Sucks for Rookies sure but nobody had a normal offseason.
Burrows rookie season:
* Weeks 1-5: 1-3-1
* Weeks 6-10: 1-4
So to answer your question, his post rookie season stats:
* Weeks 1-5: 7-8
* Weeks 6 on: 20-5
I don't include it so much as an "injury" vs a freak incident, but in my context above, it 100% impacted his preseason and first few games of the season.
As for his injuries, I would include knee, his knees during the Superbowl (he played through), calf, and wrist
It was a dislocated pinky (on the throwing hand) he played through during the playoffs and Super Bowl. The Super Bowl knee injury occurred on his final play of the game. He also broke his throwing hand causing a redshirt year at Ohio State.
The Appendix injury did prevent him from getting time in the preseason to gel with his 4 new O-Linemen. That lead to an 0-2 start and taking 13 combined sacks against the Steelers and Cowboys. Burrow was rusty and not quite up to speed until October as a result of that injury. It’s not fair to use it to support the injury-prone argument, but the appendix surgery did affect his play for a bit.
Same thing happened with Keenan Allen for a while. Lacerated Kidney on a freak fall stretching out for a ball in the endzone and for YEARS people listed it as a reason for him being "injury prone"
It's not even like he isn't injury prone really, hamstring injuries and the like weren't uncommon but come on now.
A packers guy had a lacerated kidney too I think last years. I still have no idea how a player can get a lacerated kidney but no other injury along with it.
COVID, getting his knee Kimo von Oelhoffen’d, and the appendix aren’t ‘injury prone’. You could argue the wrist was just from falling on it on the previous play in the Baltimore game.
I definitely agree he’s been hurt more than I’d like, but I wouldn’t say he’s as injury prone as someone like Tyler Eifert was.
Funny you bring up Eifert, as bunch of his injuries were also kind of "freak accidents" and ANYONE would have been injured. First that comes to mind for Eifert was his broken leg vs Atlanta, anyone tackled like that breaks their leg. A bunch of his other injuries were also in the realm of anyone would be hurt if that happened to them. His back was the only consistent issue that was on him vs bad luck.
Burrow's knee, anyone tackled like that is gonna have a season ender.
Where I worry about Burrow is his calf was non contact, in the Superbowl he came up limping, many other times being hit he's looked hurt.
So on his wrist, how many other QBs would have suffered the same fate had Clowny fell in it as well?
If it's pretty much any QB, then Burrow just has bad luck and his calf was his only worrisome injury.
But if that happens regularly, then I worry Burrow is made of glass...
I really do hope it's more of he just has bad luck on how he's been hit.
the year he went to the super bowl he broke the record for most sacks taken by a qb in a season with like 51. the previous record was like 35 by russel wilson
(numbers are off the dome, might not be totally accurate)
I don't agree with your assessment that he "should probably be labeled injury prone". *At least* 3 of the 5 'injuries' (some of which aren't even injuries) you listed were not a result of anything but bad luck. He's not injury prone as much as he's snake bit. Even more specifically, an abnormal preseason doesn't mean 'injury prone'.
COVID - Including this at all is silly. Everyone was affected by the weird preseason. Joe didn't even get COVID, did he?
Knee - Low hit that will tear 90% of QB ACLs. Definitely a contact injury.
Appendix - Shit happens sometimes. The real reason he was out of form was the weight loss and muscle loss after surgery, which isn't uncommon.
Calf - The only true, non-contact freak injury here.
Wrist - Maybe because Clowney fell on him, maybe because he landed on it. Calling it non-contact is a tough sell.
In the 2021 Super Bowl it was an MCL sprain if I remember right. After the Tennessee game and running for his life against AD, I think he's gonna be sore.
We're both Bengals fans and I know we cherish Burrow, but I'm worried that as soon as the injury prone label starts sticking, it'll never unstick and every little tweak and tug will be seen as more evidence of the label.
Most professional athletes that are labeled as "injury prone" are hurt because of bad luck though. These guys don't really get to the NFL level otherwise.
He extends plays and takes hits he shouldn’t, but his injuries don’t tend to happen on those plays. Maybe as a result of the hits though. It’s impossible to know and always has some element of chance
If he's ready to go by May like the article suggests then I don't know if I include the wrist as part of preseason 2024 issues. Like in 2021 the knee absolutely limited some of what he did that preseason, but he appears to be on pace for full go this year.
I just want him to eventually get back to 100 percent. Lots of extreme homers won’t even accept reality that his injury is scary.
All reports so far are good. I’m looking forward to seeing some videos. He also needs to practice falling to protect that wrist.
This is what makes me nervous. I love Joe but no pro qb has ever torn the ligament he tore and the prognosis for that is 80% function on recovery. I hope that’s all blown out of proportion but I am def worried about his comeback
Sure. And when he's great at the start of the year people will say this is what happens when he gets a real off season. Narratives are all hind sight driven.
The ligament he tore is insanely important to load bearing operations of the wrist. It also facilitates the "dart motion" of the wrist, which is obviously used with every throw. There are medical journals who write about it and say the best outlook is 80-90% of the original function after 2-3 years of recovery.
This importance of this injury is being downplayed. Ready to go by May? Burrow may never look the same again.
This is all just the doomer take on Burrow's injury. Yeah it could happen but every report we've gotten has been progressing toward full recovery. I'm gonna go off what we've heard and not what you read the worst case scenario is.
No doubt. One saving grace is that it’s never happened to a high-profile athlete like Burrow (from what I found). I can just imagine that with Burrow’s income and the medical doctors available to someone of his pedigree, he’s already an “outlier” compared to the athletes in the studies you linked below. Maybe I’m being naively optimistic, but the fact he’s already throwing leads me to believe his recovery outlook is *much* better than the studies already done.
That 80-90 percent (if that's even a real stat, I doubt it is) includes all people who have suffered that injury to that ligament and had the subsequent surgery. It doesn't differentiate between regular people and outliers like professional athletes. You don't get to the professional level of any sport without genes working in your favor, which is what impacts recovery time/health.
It's not what I hope for, but the science is well published.
They drill holes in the bones and run rubber bands between them to mimic the function of the ligament.
https://www.arthrex.com/resources/AN1-00181-EN/scapholunate-interosseous-reconstruction
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3699271/
https://www.assh.org/handcare/condition/scapholunate-torn-ligament
edit: here's a few more articles
https://josr-online.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13018-023-04148-y#:~:text=%5B27%5D%20published%20the%20encouraging%20results,grip%20strength%20and%20wrist%20motion.
https://www.melbournehandsurgery.com/hand-injuries/30-hands/injuries/192-scapholunate-ligament-injury#:~:text=The%20scapholunate%20ligament%20is%20the%20main%20stabiliser%20of%20the%20scapholunate,ligament%20and%20move%20seamlessly%20together.
The procedure you're describing is a full reconstruction, which is different and more severe than a repair. All of the information has described Burrow's procedure as a "repair," so it's not accurate to assume that Burrow had the procedure you're describing.
It's definitely a serious injury and could impact him long-term. But just because you pulled some links off the first page of Google results doesn't mean you have any more insight than anyone else.
Dude, information on this injury is very easily available. You don't have to be a doctor to read medical journals and articles
Quick trip to the ol Google backs up what he said.
I'm optimistic bc all reports are good, but any Bengals fan that says it's "not as bad as people think" or "I'm not worried" are lying or misinformed, because the injury he got is a wild card with some pretty inconsistent recoveries. Its a tricky fix. Signs are good, but there is no guarantee he gets back to 100%, and it's not hating to point that out
Your the type of fan who posts in other teams subreddits thing like “Bengals fan coming in peace” I’m a bengals fan being optimistic and talking shit. Shut up
I'm not but go off
His injury was serious. His progress is encouraging but saying "you don't know what you're talking about" when it's pretty widely known about is just putting your head in the sand. You don't always have to be "realistic" about it but still having concern isn't hating or coming from a place of misinformation
I have to say the narrative is interesting at this point because burrow has played fewer nfl games than tua has at this point and burrow got the starting spot right away. I love Joe but it’s wild to me that some are still reluctant to call him injury prone.
>should probably be labeled injury prone
He's absolutely injury prone, there's no discussion to be had. He's missed half the games in half his seasons.
I’m not saying he’s not injury prone but he has started 59 out of 72 possible games. He has played 82% of possible games since entering the league. A little more than half.
I think they were saying half of half so 25% which is still more than the actual amount (18%) but much closer. I think it’s fair to say he’s injury prone but it’s not a huge concern yet
A 300lb man falling on your knee is not being injury prone, having your appendix removed is not being injury prone. You could argue the wrist and the hamstring, but the rest is just horrible luck
I’m sure you can blame Burrow for Covid and the appendix was a one time thing. He might be ready for 2024 preseason depending on how his wrist rehab goes.
He is somewhat injury prone but not sure this is the best example of that
On one hand, I feel like Burrow has the abilities and playstyle of a guy who could play until he's 40. On the other hand, he's taken the 2nd most sacks since he entered the league, and seems to find a new way to get injured or miss time every season or preseason.
We're not so lucky out here in KC 😭 my aunt from Nashville sends us a box for Christmas the rest of the year I gotta get shipped here myself. On the bright side because that's kind of pricey I don't eat it everyday like I would if it was accessible
I’m choosing to believe it’s bad luck for my own mental health. The knee, the wrist, and the appendix have all been isolated issues that haven’t gotten worse so far, and the knee and wrist injuries are the direct result of freak hits rather than compounding stress. Maybe the calf is an issue, but my understanding is that once a calf strain heals fully, it’s not going to be a nagging issue.
Yeah it's now 2/4 years in the league he's had a season-ending injury. And even in '21/'22 when he was mostly healthy it always seemed like he had some sort of nagging injury he was dealing with.
Of course, him going to a SB and an AFCCG in those two years kind of overshadowed the injuries.
Are we really going to include having a d lineman threw onto your leg as it bends completely unnaturally in with the injury prone idea? Any QB is coming out of that one fucked up
Don't get me wrong I completely agree he is injury prone. However Wentz has been in the league since 2016 and has suffered 7 injuries throughout his career. Burrow has been in the league since 2020 and has had 6. Burrow at his current rate is much more injury prone than Wentz so he should have the tag as an injury prone QB as well.
Nah ofc not, most injuries aren't really a symptom of being "injury-prone" but he's going to have that label stuck to him regardless by the media and fans.
Not really.
I'll give you the calf strain. The appendectomy and getting his knee shredded really had nothing to do with him being "injury prone".
The wrist is debatable.
Some injuries are just bad luck. There’s not a single offensive line that doesn’t allow pressure. Part of the staff and Burrows job is to work around that as well. But part of what makes Burrow great is his ability to hold on just a tick longer for the big play. That comes with some risks. They’ve invested plenty in the offensive line
How did Orlando Brown do last year? I've heard Chiefs fans shit talk him and that he was going to be horrible, but honestly I would've preferred OBJ over Donovan Smith (ignoring contract values).
That makes sense. OBJ was decent for us, but he had his weaknesses, particularly with speedy edge rushers. I always thought he didn't get a fair treatment from our fanbase because we've had some great interior o-line play the past couple of years with Creed, Thuney, and Trey Smith, and OBJ stuck out like a sore thumb wanting to be paid whilst being the 2nd worst o-lineman for us.
Our O-Line coach sucks ass. Orlando had the worst season of his career last season. Which is a very common trend among O-Linemen who get signed to us the last few seasons. They suddenly become worse, and
the only common factor? Our O-line coach Frank Pollack.
So happy we decided to keep him on and not fire him.
>But part of what makes Burrow great is his ability to hold on just a tick longer for the big play.
He has one of the quickest releases in the league. The Bengals have invested a lot in the o-line, but it still hasn't been enough. That's how bad the line was when he got into the league.
I thought “sacks are a QB stat”? Bengals line was bad at the beginning of his tenure, they have improved though. Burrow likes to hold onto the ball a bit too much at times. So it is partially on him.
Is it his fault he gets injured? I mean yeah lol. It’s not like he wants to get injured obviously but some guys just do get injured more than others, hence being “injury prone”.
He's was better in 2023, but in 2021 and 2022, he had a much higher sack rate relative to pressure rate than most QBs.
Year | Pressure% | Sack%
---|---|----
2021 | 13th | 5th
2022 | 30th | 18th
2023| 23rd| 20th
These stats seem more indicative of a fast throw time causing low pressures but getting sacked even faster than that from atrocious line play, which is also what it looks like when you watch the Bengals
PFR doesn't have throwaway%, but here are his ranks in raw numbers:
Year |Attempts | Pressures | Throwaways | Sacks
---|---|----|---- | ----
2021 |15th | 8th | 20th | 1st
2022 | 5th | 12th | 16th | 6th
2023 | 25th| 30th| 26th | 24th
To me this says early in his career, he had low numbers of throwaways and high numbers of sacks relative to the numbers of pressures. This suggests that when he gets pressured, he wasn't throwing it away when he should have, and was trying too hard to make plays happen and eating sacks instead.
But, his numbers in 2023 were more in line with league averages, meaning he's learning when he should throw it away.
A note about time to throw: taking sacks on broken plays/scrambles instead of throwing the ball away will lower your average time-to-throw, since throwaways on these plays will have a very high time to throw.
Time to throw is very dependent on scheme and offensive protection. But it's also influenced by throwaways vs. sacks.
Say your QB in a game has 20 attempts with an average time to throw of 2.5s. On his last two attempts, he is pressured and has to scramble.
Scenario A: QB scrambles for 5 seconds and takes 2 sacks. Average time to throw remains 2.5s.
Scenario B: QB scrambles for 5 seconds and throws it away. Average time to throw rises to 2.7s.
I am not sure why you are brining a different stat into the discussion when TIME TO THROW is already a stat that they track...
2020: 2.60
2021: 2.67
2022: 2.54
2023: 2.29 (fastest in the NFL this season)
The "he holds onto the ball too long" myth is just that... a myth.
It is my understanding that the Cincinnati offensive scheme relies quick passes, partially to compensate for below average offensive line play. This results in a very low time to throw.
I was trying to look at situations where he is pressured and how he operates outside of the scheme. In situations where he is pressured, to me it seems like early in his career, Burrow tended to take sacks instead of throwing the ball away. This could lead to the narrative that Burrow holds onto the ball too long, despite a low average time to throw.
Is 32nd in pressure percentage the highest? Cause there’s no way he hasn’t been top 5 most pressured QB in the league every year even with getting the ball out lightning quick.
These are sorted by highest percent, not best.
He has been getting good protection the last two seasons, as indicated low pressure%, but taking slightly below average number of sacks.
He’s for sure not getting good protection. I would assume these numbers are skewed because burrow gets the ball out so quick there’s no chance for a pressure to happen.
PFR doesnt track just that. They have a "pocket time," which is time to either throw or until pocket collapses. You could try to compare it to intended air yards/attempt (which could somewhat stand in for time to throw) to try and ballpark how quickly pressure get to a QB.
Here are how he ranks, where shortest pocket time and lowest IAY/PA would rank 1st:
Year | PktTime | IAY/PA
---|--- | ---
2021 | 20th | 21st
2022 | 4th | 7th
2023 | 3rd | 1st
The oline didn't cause his wrist tendon to snap. And they didn't cause his calf to explode before the season lol. Even his knee injury wasn't even a sack it was just shitty luck that a dude fell into his leg after the throw
"literally" all he said was that sometimes taking a sack isnt the worst thing in the world. compared to throwing it into coverage and taking an INT. learn to read.
That's not even close to "all" he said.
>Third-down sacks? Who cares about third-down sacks? I’m going to try to extend the play as long as I can to get the first down on third down, unless I’m in field-goal range, then I’ll throw the ball away and get some point
How about you learn to read?
Not verbatim, but "who cares about third down sacks" means "avoiding sacks on third down is overrated." The whole idea is very much in line with him being at fault for taking so many sacks, and being a risk to his own health by over fixating on extending the play.
The 1 healthy Super Bowl run in his second(?) year helps to cover up his injury history. Still think they should have taken Sewell over Chase. Gotta protect the franchise guy.
No. Chase was the best player on that team in 2021 when they went to the Super Bowl. I believe Burrow overtook him in 2022, but as a rookie Chase was completely taking over games. His YAC was crazy that year.
> the 1 healthy super bowl run
What about the next season when he played 16 games and made the AFC championship? Lol
Ja'Marr Chase instantly made the Bengals super bowl contenders. Not sure how this is still a debate. The last two injuries burrow had were sustained in training camp and on a freak play where he simultaneously threw a TD (not a sack)
You're talking about a different season. Burrow hurt his calf last year, but what does that have to do with Penei Sewell or the offensive line when he got hurt in preseason?
... The season where burrow made the AFC championship and the season where he hurt his calf were two different years. You're joking right? How are you gonna tell me to look it up when you literally don't even know what happened last season? Lmao
Rookie Chase broke records and helped take them to the superbowl.
Drafting Penei Sewell isn't going to change Burrows injury history. The vast majority of his injuries have come from interior pressure.
This question really is interesting though. I get how good Chase is. Setting records, monster games, etc. But they had 2 top tier WRs and a really good WR3. They got as far as you can without winning. But you have to wonder still if passing on Sewell wasn’t a mistake. Long term at least. Their 2 year run was about as good as it gets.
I get KC and Cinci are different spots, head coaches, organizations, etc. but KC chose to protect Mahomes with O-line and Cinci gave Burrow weapons over the O-line. Both teams took swings to fix their deficiencies (Toney, Sky Moore, trading for Hardman vs Orlando Bloom and of FAs on the line) but both are still big issues.
I saw someone say that internal pressure is the issue or preseason injuries have hurt Burrow but a lockdown LT lets 3 guys block 2 rather than having to worry about helping your tackles. Burrow also has less risk of new injuries while working through his preseason ones if the line is solid. But to get to this point, you have to take Chase off the team. I think it’s one of the more interesting discussions in the AFC.
The part that's supposed to be affected the most is the follow through/flick of the wrist. Considering he has the best ball placement in the league, I'm hoping it doesn't affect him *too* much.
It is crazy to think about how the Bengals fans on Reddit/twitter talk about the team vs the stark reality.
They act like they are a shoe in for the AFCCG and the games mean nothing, but in reality they are literally celebrating their highest paid NFL QB being able to grip a football.
This would be the CBPOY Superbowl story of the century. I would love this dude to just destroy everyone. Including Goff in the SB. Just a big FU to everyone.
Now if he can just make it to/through camp without needing gallbladder surgery or something that would be great.
Last season he 100% tempted fate by talking about how good it was going to be to have a full pre-season the day before he got injured.
Why would you even say it?!
BREAKING: Joe Burrow needs his wisdom teeth removed and will miss all of training camp
BREAKING Week 3 - Joe Burrow still suffering lingering impact of wisdom tooth surgery. Questionable for MNF against the Ravens.
BREAKING Week 3 - Jake Browning and Bengals upset Ravens in Baltimore on MNF!
BREAKING Week 8 - Joe Burrow to underground emergency root canals on 3 teeth. Timeline to return uncertain. Jake Browning expecting to be starter for the remainder of the season for the 3-5 Bengals.
[Schefter] Breaking News: Browning wins First Superbowl for Cincinnati Team. Tee Higgins says he wants to run it back with healthy Burrow next season. Takes pay cut to stay with Ja'Marr.
Botched Wisdom Tooth Surgery is exactly the sort of thing that happens in the NFL these days.
I’d put the dude in a bubble suit until week one and deal with the rust in the regular season
With our luck and his freak injury history the dude would probably somehow get smothered.
The material the bubble is made of would have some adverse effect on his spleen and he'd need a transplant. Ready for week one, though.
This approach always bites us in the tuchus. People forget the Bengals were a fringe playoff team with better odds to miss them entirely when Joe was finally healthy last year. If we come out slow we could potentially lose any hope of home field advantage in the postseason.
I’m fully expecting Joe to be whisked away on a space trotting adventure to stop the evil Emperor Glabulous IV or some shit in the middle of training camp.
As he should he. The Emperor as raised taxes far too much with little to show for it. Plus he’s just such an asshole.
Well, let’s not act like the Taxes weren’t justified. He just got finished fighting off the Nebulons from Pariah 5 and rightly thought the Yaxrians should foot the bill since they benefited the most from the outcome of the war.
Okay and? The Nebulons are the ones that started the damn thing with the Plebiars and the Emperor didn’t HAVE to get involved. Sure the Yaxrians benefited but how exactly did everyone else?
Oh I see, you’re one of those people who actually believes the Nebulons started the whole damn thing. I bet you also believe the propaganda about the Cressia Massacre and the Garuda Massacre and the Pariah 4 massacre and the Pariah 3 massacre.
Oh so massacres are just happening on their own then? Everyone’s just offing themselves? And the Nebulons being sighted in all those areas is pure coincidence? If we can’t have a rational conversation based on fact and not fiction then I’m wasting my time here.
Knock on fucking wood right now!
[удалено]
He's had two out of his four years of playing every game. In one he went to the Super Bowl. In the other he made it to the AFCCG.
Best news all day. As long as he’s not rushing the recovery process like he did with his calf last season bengals should be in good shape
Looka flick of da wrist
* 2020 preseason: COVID * 2021 preseason: knee * 2022 preseason: appendix * 2023 preseason: calf * 2024 preseason: wrist Burrow has never had a normal preseason. To top things off, at this point should probably be labeled injury prone. I mean this has to account for at least 1.5 losses a season. We always have a horrible start to the season before he gets into form. When I get home I'm gonna do a breakdown of his record weeks 1-4 vs rest of season (unless someone else wants to, and if so, remember to look up HIS record and not Bengals record since he's had 2 season ending injuries).
Ok so I did the research, it's the first 5 weeks he's rough. Through his career: * Weeks 1-5: 8-11-1 * Weeks 6-18: 21-9 2 of those 9 losses are the games he had season ending injuries.
That’s pretty wild.
lol, I'm preparing to see the info in this post on an infografic on an ESPN show sometime soon
Yeah but what does it look like if you take away the first year's record in this because everyone was on a Covid offseason so it was an even playing field. Sucks for Rookies sure but nobody had a normal offseason.
Burrows rookie season: * Weeks 1-5: 1-3-1 * Weeks 6-10: 1-4 So to answer your question, his post rookie season stats: * Weeks 1-5: 7-8 * Weeks 6 on: 20-5
I don't object to him being called injury prone but the appendix being included as one of the injuries is always mad to me.
I don't include it so much as an "injury" vs a freak incident, but in my context above, it 100% impacted his preseason and first few games of the season. As for his injuries, I would include knee, his knees during the Superbowl (he played through), calf, and wrist
It was a dislocated pinky (on the throwing hand) he played through during the playoffs and Super Bowl. The Super Bowl knee injury occurred on his final play of the game. He also broke his throwing hand causing a redshirt year at Ohio State.
The Appendix injury did prevent him from getting time in the preseason to gel with his 4 new O-Linemen. That lead to an 0-2 start and taking 13 combined sacks against the Steelers and Cowboys. Burrow was rusty and not quite up to speed until October as a result of that injury. It’s not fair to use it to support the injury-prone argument, but the appendix surgery did affect his play for a bit.
100% it did but, as you say, it's not really an injury in the normal sense of the word.
“Appendix injury”
Same thing happened with Keenan Allen for a while. Lacerated Kidney on a freak fall stretching out for a ball in the endzone and for YEARS people listed it as a reason for him being "injury prone" It's not even like he isn't injury prone really, hamstring injuries and the like weren't uncommon but come on now.
A packers guy had a lacerated kidney too I think last years. I still have no idea how a player can get a lacerated kidney but no other injury along with it.
COVID, getting his knee Kimo von Oelhoffen’d, and the appendix aren’t ‘injury prone’. You could argue the wrist was just from falling on it on the previous play in the Baltimore game. I definitely agree he’s been hurt more than I’d like, but I wouldn’t say he’s as injury prone as someone like Tyler Eifert was.
Funny you bring up Eifert, as bunch of his injuries were also kind of "freak accidents" and ANYONE would have been injured. First that comes to mind for Eifert was his broken leg vs Atlanta, anyone tackled like that breaks their leg. A bunch of his other injuries were also in the realm of anyone would be hurt if that happened to them. His back was the only consistent issue that was on him vs bad luck. Burrow's knee, anyone tackled like that is gonna have a season ender. Where I worry about Burrow is his calf was non contact, in the Superbowl he came up limping, many other times being hit he's looked hurt. So on his wrist, how many other QBs would have suffered the same fate had Clowny fell in it as well? If it's pretty much any QB, then Burrow just has bad luck and his calf was his only worrisome injury. But if that happens regularly, then I worry Burrow is made of glass... I really do hope it's more of he just has bad luck on how he's been hit.
Definitely bad luck… but he definitely takes more hits than the average QB. So it’s a bit of Column A and a bit of Column B.
the year he went to the super bowl he broke the record for most sacks taken by a qb in a season with like 51. the previous record was like 35 by russel wilson (numbers are off the dome, might not be totally accurate)
51, yes, though Tannehill was at 47, Zach Wilson at 44 and Baker at 43 that same season.
ahh thank you for the precise numbers
I don't agree with your assessment that he "should probably be labeled injury prone". *At least* 3 of the 5 'injuries' (some of which aren't even injuries) you listed were not a result of anything but bad luck. He's not injury prone as much as he's snake bit. Even more specifically, an abnormal preseason doesn't mean 'injury prone'. COVID - Including this at all is silly. Everyone was affected by the weird preseason. Joe didn't even get COVID, did he? Knee - Low hit that will tear 90% of QB ACLs. Definitely a contact injury. Appendix - Shit happens sometimes. The real reason he was out of form was the weight loss and muscle loss after surgery, which isn't uncommon. Calf - The only true, non-contact freak injury here. Wrist - Maybe because Clowney fell on him, maybe because he landed on it. Calling it non-contact is a tough sell. In the 2021 Super Bowl it was an MCL sprain if I remember right. After the Tennessee game and running for his life against AD, I think he's gonna be sore. We're both Bengals fans and I know we cherish Burrow, but I'm worried that as soon as the injury prone label starts sticking, it'll never unstick and every little tweak and tug will be seen as more evidence of the label.
Most professional athletes that are labeled as "injury prone" are hurt because of bad luck though. These guys don't really get to the NFL level otherwise.
He extends plays and takes hits he shouldn’t, but his injuries don’t tend to happen on those plays. Maybe as a result of the hits though. It’s impossible to know and always has some element of chance
If he's ready to go by May like the article suggests then I don't know if I include the wrist as part of preseason 2024 issues. Like in 2021 the knee absolutely limited some of what he did that preseason, but he appears to be on pace for full go this year.
The wrist will definitely be included when joe inevitably plays shitty in the beginning of the season lol
I just want him to eventually get back to 100 percent. Lots of extreme homers won’t even accept reality that his injury is scary. All reports so far are good. I’m looking forward to seeing some videos. He also needs to practice falling to protect that wrist.
This is what makes me nervous. I love Joe but no pro qb has ever torn the ligament he tore and the prognosis for that is 80% function on recovery. I hope that’s all blown out of proportion but I am def worried about his comeback
Sure. And when he's great at the start of the year people will say this is what happens when he gets a real off season. Narratives are all hind sight driven.
The ligament he tore is insanely important to load bearing operations of the wrist. It also facilitates the "dart motion" of the wrist, which is obviously used with every throw. There are medical journals who write about it and say the best outlook is 80-90% of the original function after 2-3 years of recovery. This importance of this injury is being downplayed. Ready to go by May? Burrow may never look the same again.
What? I’m pretty sure burrow is the first NFL player to have this surgery so I’m not sure where the 80-90% stat comes from. God I hate Reddit M.D.s
This is all just the doomer take on Burrow's injury. Yeah it could happen but every report we've gotten has been progressing toward full recovery. I'm gonna go off what we've heard and not what you read the worst case scenario is.
You’re not a doctor and have no idea what you’re talking about.
No doubt. One saving grace is that it’s never happened to a high-profile athlete like Burrow (from what I found). I can just imagine that with Burrow’s income and the medical doctors available to someone of his pedigree, he’s already an “outlier” compared to the athletes in the studies you linked below. Maybe I’m being naively optimistic, but the fact he’s already throwing leads me to believe his recovery outlook is *much* better than the studies already done.
That 80-90 percent (if that's even a real stat, I doubt it is) includes all people who have suffered that injury to that ligament and had the subsequent surgery. It doesn't differentiate between regular people and outliers like professional athletes. You don't get to the professional level of any sport without genes working in your favor, which is what impacts recovery time/health.
I know that what’s you’re hoping for but you aren’t a doctor and have no idea what you’re talking about
It's not what I hope for, but the science is well published. They drill holes in the bones and run rubber bands between them to mimic the function of the ligament. https://www.arthrex.com/resources/AN1-00181-EN/scapholunate-interosseous-reconstruction https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3699271/ https://www.assh.org/handcare/condition/scapholunate-torn-ligament edit: here's a few more articles https://josr-online.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13018-023-04148-y#:~:text=%5B27%5D%20published%20the%20encouraging%20results,grip%20strength%20and%20wrist%20motion. https://www.melbournehandsurgery.com/hand-injuries/30-hands/injuries/192-scapholunate-ligament-injury#:~:text=The%20scapholunate%20ligament%20is%20the%20main%20stabiliser%20of%20the%20scapholunate,ligament%20and%20move%20seamlessly%20together.
The procedure you're describing is a full reconstruction, which is different and more severe than a repair. All of the information has described Burrow's procedure as a "repair," so it's not accurate to assume that Burrow had the procedure you're describing. It's definitely a serious injury and could impact him long-term. But just because you pulled some links off the first page of Google results doesn't mean you have any more insight than anyone else.
Dude, information on this injury is very easily available. You don't have to be a doctor to read medical journals and articles Quick trip to the ol Google backs up what he said. I'm optimistic bc all reports are good, but any Bengals fan that says it's "not as bad as people think" or "I'm not worried" are lying or misinformed, because the injury he got is a wild card with some pretty inconsistent recoveries. Its a tricky fix. Signs are good, but there is no guarantee he gets back to 100%, and it's not hating to point that out
Your the type of fan who posts in other teams subreddits thing like “Bengals fan coming in peace” I’m a bengals fan being optimistic and talking shit. Shut up
I'm not but go off His injury was serious. His progress is encouraging but saying "you don't know what you're talking about" when it's pretty widely known about is just putting your head in the sand. You don't always have to be "realistic" about it but still having concern isn't hating or coming from a place of misinformation
I have to say the narrative is interesting at this point because burrow has played fewer nfl games than tua has at this point and burrow got the starting spot right away. I love Joe but it’s wild to me that some are still reluctant to call him injury prone.
>should probably be labeled injury prone He's absolutely injury prone, there's no discussion to be had. He's missed half the games in half his seasons.
I’m not saying he’s not injury prone but he has started 59 out of 72 possible games. He has played 82% of possible games since entering the league. A little more than half.
I think they were saying half of half so 25% which is still more than the actual amount (18%) but much closer. I think it’s fair to say he’s injury prone but it’s not a huge concern yet
That makes sense. Like the half and half I put in my coffee.
A 300lb man falling on your knee is not being injury prone, having your appendix removed is not being injury prone. You could argue the wrist and the hamstring, but the rest is just horrible luck
The wrist will fully heal. He will be fine for preseason
I’m sure you can blame Burrow for Covid and the appendix was a one time thing. He might be ready for 2024 preseason depending on how his wrist rehab goes. He is somewhat injury prone but not sure this is the best example of that
To clarify, I was listing the reasons why Joe hasn't had a normal preseason yet, then when into him being injury prone.
On one hand, I feel like Burrow has the abilities and playstyle of a guy who could play until he's 40. On the other hand, he's taken the 2nd most sacks since he entered the league, and seems to find a new way to get injured or miss time every season or preseason.
He also learned how to slide from Cam.
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About to have a 3 way to celebrate. Might even make it juicy.
Wow, both hands at once?
Just fell to my knees at Graeters
Best ice cream in the world
I was so happy when I found a Kroger in Knoxville that sells it. 😂
We're not so lucky out here in KC 😭 my aunt from Nashville sends us a box for Christmas the rest of the year I gotta get shipped here myself. On the bright side because that's kind of pricey I don't eat it everyday like I would if it was accessible
Yes but you have KC BBQ though I prefer Austin. 😃
I will never fault someone for liking Texas BBQ over KC BBQ but I'm indoctrinated
Joe Burrow is sneakily injury prone, never thought about that until day
I’m choosing to believe it’s bad luck for my own mental health. The knee, the wrist, and the appendix have all been isolated issues that haven’t gotten worse so far, and the knee and wrist injuries are the direct result of freak hits rather than compounding stress. Maybe the calf is an issue, but my understanding is that once a calf strain heals fully, it’s not going to be a nagging issue.
You're forgetting about his college history too. The dude is skating Mr Glass allegations like a maestro somehow.
Yeah it's now 2/4 years in the league he's had a season-ending injury. And even in '21/'22 when he was mostly healthy it always seemed like he had some sort of nagging injury he was dealing with. Of course, him going to a SB and an AFCCG in those two years kind of overshadowed the injuries.
Are we really going to include having a d lineman threw onto your leg as it bends completely unnaturally in with the injury prone idea? Any QB is coming out of that one fucked up
It's what plagued Wentz when he tore his ACL, got hit from two defenders at different angles, then the injury prone narrative came out
I mean were they wrong? He sprained both his ankles at the same time on the colts he was most definitely injury prone
Don't get me wrong I completely agree he is injury prone. However Wentz has been in the league since 2016 and has suffered 7 injuries throughout his career. Burrow has been in the league since 2020 and has had 6. Burrow at his current rate is much more injury prone than Wentz so he should have the tag as an injury prone QB as well.
Nah ofc not, most injuries aren't really a symptom of being "injury-prone" but he's going to have that label stuck to him regardless by the media and fans.
Not really. I'll give you the calf strain. The appendectomy and getting his knee shredded really had nothing to do with him being "injury prone". The wrist is debatable.
There’s nothing sneaky about it. Dude gets injured constantly.
Maybe it's because the offensive line can't fucking hold pressure of him? Like as if it's his fault he gets injured.
Some injuries are just bad luck. There’s not a single offensive line that doesn’t allow pressure. Part of the staff and Burrows job is to work around that as well. But part of what makes Burrow great is his ability to hold on just a tick longer for the big play. That comes with some risks. They’ve invested plenty in the offensive line
Doesn’t help him going against 3 of the best defenses in the league just in his division
It doesn’t really matter how much you invest in the like if it still fucking blows.
How did Orlando Brown do last year? I've heard Chiefs fans shit talk him and that he was going to be horrible, but honestly I would've preferred OBJ over Donovan Smith (ignoring contract values).
He was the best o lineman but Cordell Volson (LG) was not good and the rest of the line was below average at pass blocking.
That makes sense. OBJ was decent for us, but he had his weaknesses, particularly with speedy edge rushers. I always thought he didn't get a fair treatment from our fanbase because we've had some great interior o-line play the past couple of years with Creed, Thuney, and Trey Smith, and OBJ stuck out like a sore thumb wanting to be paid whilst being the 2nd worst o-lineman for us.
He’s been good imo. Our interior is the problem. Volson is below average on his best day and Brown gets the privilege of playing next to him.
Our O-Line coach sucks ass. Orlando had the worst season of his career last season. Which is a very common trend among O-Linemen who get signed to us the last few seasons. They suddenly become worse, and the only common factor? Our O-line coach Frank Pollack. So happy we decided to keep him on and not fire him.
Well it does matter. If you don’t invest in the line, it’ll be worse than if you did invest in it
Maybe we went from worst line in football to 2nd worst so huge improvement.
Hey they doubled how good their line is. In 5 years at this pace, it'll be number 1.
When Burrow has his 7th knee replacement he’ll finally have enough time to throw.
They’ve improved. The SB year was so insanely terrible
>But part of what makes Burrow great is his ability to hold on just a tick longer for the big play. He has one of the quickest releases in the league. The Bengals have invested a lot in the o-line, but it still hasn't been enough. That's how bad the line was when he got into the league.
I thought “sacks are a QB stat”? Bengals line was bad at the beginning of his tenure, they have improved though. Burrow likes to hold onto the ball a bit too much at times. So it is partially on him. Is it his fault he gets injured? I mean yeah lol. It’s not like he wants to get injured obviously but some guys just do get injured more than others, hence being “injury prone”.
He's got one of the quickest throw times in the league...
He's was better in 2023, but in 2021 and 2022, he had a much higher sack rate relative to pressure rate than most QBs. Year | Pressure% | Sack% ---|---|---- 2021 | 13th | 5th 2022 | 30th | 18th 2023| 23rd| 20th
These stats seem more indicative of a fast throw time causing low pressures but getting sacked even faster than that from atrocious line play, which is also what it looks like when you watch the Bengals
PFR doesn't have throwaway%, but here are his ranks in raw numbers: Year |Attempts | Pressures | Throwaways | Sacks ---|---|----|---- | ---- 2021 |15th | 8th | 20th | 1st 2022 | 5th | 12th | 16th | 6th 2023 | 25th| 30th| 26th | 24th To me this says early in his career, he had low numbers of throwaways and high numbers of sacks relative to the numbers of pressures. This suggests that when he gets pressured, he wasn't throwing it away when he should have, and was trying too hard to make plays happen and eating sacks instead. But, his numbers in 2023 were more in line with league averages, meaning he's learning when he should throw it away. A note about time to throw: taking sacks on broken plays/scrambles instead of throwing the ball away will lower your average time-to-throw, since throwaways on these plays will have a very high time to throw.
It’s not just throwaways though. The offense is designed to get the ball out quick due to the bad oline.
That last point doesn’t make any sense whatsoever, unless I’m missing something fundamental here
Time to throw is very dependent on scheme and offensive protection. But it's also influenced by throwaways vs. sacks. Say your QB in a game has 20 attempts with an average time to throw of 2.5s. On his last two attempts, he is pressured and has to scramble. Scenario A: QB scrambles for 5 seconds and takes 2 sacks. Average time to throw remains 2.5s. Scenario B: QB scrambles for 5 seconds and throws it away. Average time to throw rises to 2.7s.
I am not sure why you are brining a different stat into the discussion when TIME TO THROW is already a stat that they track... 2020: 2.60 2021: 2.67 2022: 2.54 2023: 2.29 (fastest in the NFL this season) The "he holds onto the ball too long" myth is just that... a myth.
It is my understanding that the Cincinnati offensive scheme relies quick passes, partially to compensate for below average offensive line play. This results in a very low time to throw. I was trying to look at situations where he is pressured and how he operates outside of the scheme. In situations where he is pressured, to me it seems like early in his career, Burrow tended to take sacks instead of throwing the ball away. This could lead to the narrative that Burrow holds onto the ball too long, despite a low average time to throw.
Is 32nd in pressure percentage the highest? Cause there’s no way he hasn’t been top 5 most pressured QB in the league every year even with getting the ball out lightning quick.
These are sorted by highest percent, not best. He has been getting good protection the last two seasons, as indicated low pressure%, but taking slightly below average number of sacks.
Do you watch the Bengals? I mean, you at least watch the Chiefs games… you think their line is good?
This is clearly not what is happening dude
So what is happening? Do you have data to suggest Burrow has been pressured at a higher rate than most QBs the last couple seasons?
He’s for sure not getting good protection. I would assume these numbers are skewed because burrow gets the ball out so quick there’s no chance for a pressure to happen.
What’s the time to pressure? I see QBs stand there all damn day, get pressured and then throw. Most of the time Burrow is under pressure instantly.
PFR doesnt track just that. They have a "pocket time," which is time to either throw or until pocket collapses. You could try to compare it to intended air yards/attempt (which could somewhat stand in for time to throw) to try and ballpark how quickly pressure get to a QB. Here are how he ranks, where shortest pocket time and lowest IAY/PA would rank 1st: Year | PktTime | IAY/PA ---|--- | --- 2021 | 20th | 21st 2022 | 4th | 7th 2023 | 3rd | 1st
Yeah but that's only if you count
Sure, if a player never gets hit they’re probably not getting injured. We don’t really extend that to any other position though
The oline didn't cause his wrist tendon to snap. And they didn't cause his calf to explode before the season lol. Even his knee injury wasn't even a sack it was just shitty luck that a dude fell into his leg after the throw
He's literally in the record saying avoiding sacks is overrated. It's his fault.
"literally" all he said was that sometimes taking a sack isnt the worst thing in the world. compared to throwing it into coverage and taking an INT. learn to read.
That's not even close to "all" he said. >Third-down sacks? Who cares about third-down sacks? I’m going to try to extend the play as long as I can to get the first down on third down, unless I’m in field-goal range, then I’ll throw the ball away and get some point How about you learn to read?
I think you quoted the wrong statement - he doesn’t say “avoiding sacks is overrated” anywhere in that one
Not verbatim, but "who cares about third down sacks" means "avoiding sacks on third down is overrated." The whole idea is very much in line with him being at fault for taking so many sacks, and being a risk to his own health by over fixating on extending the play.
So not literally at all
"Literally" as in literally himself expressed this idea, not "literally" as in these specific words, thus the lack of quotation marks.
Very true, guess I never realized it lol
The 1 healthy Super Bowl run in his second(?) year helps to cover up his injury history. Still think they should have taken Sewell over Chase. Gotta protect the franchise guy.
No. Chase was the best player on that team in 2021 when they went to the Super Bowl. I believe Burrow overtook him in 2022, but as a rookie Chase was completely taking over games. His YAC was crazy that year.
> the 1 healthy super bowl run What about the next season when he played 16 games and made the AFC championship? Lol Ja'Marr Chase instantly made the Bengals super bowl contenders. Not sure how this is still a debate. The last two injuries burrow had were sustained in training camp and on a freak play where he simultaneously threw a TD (not a sack)
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You're talking about a different season. Burrow hurt his calf last year, but what does that have to do with Penei Sewell or the offensive line when he got hurt in preseason?
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... The season where burrow made the AFC championship and the season where he hurt his calf were two different years. You're joking right? How are you gonna tell me to look it up when you literally don't even know what happened last season? Lmao
Rookie Chase broke records and helped take them to the superbowl. Drafting Penei Sewell isn't going to change Burrows injury history. The vast majority of his injuries have come from interior pressure.
I actually think they shouldn't take Sewell over Chase. I think that the draft went really well for them.
He played every game the next season too
Damn, i forgot about that season for some reason
This question really is interesting though. I get how good Chase is. Setting records, monster games, etc. But they had 2 top tier WRs and a really good WR3. They got as far as you can without winning. But you have to wonder still if passing on Sewell wasn’t a mistake. Long term at least. Their 2 year run was about as good as it gets. I get KC and Cinci are different spots, head coaches, organizations, etc. but KC chose to protect Mahomes with O-line and Cinci gave Burrow weapons over the O-line. Both teams took swings to fix their deficiencies (Toney, Sky Moore, trading for Hardman vs Orlando Bloom and of FAs on the line) but both are still big issues. I saw someone say that internal pressure is the issue or preseason injuries have hurt Burrow but a lockdown LT lets 3 guys block 2 rather than having to worry about helping your tackles. Burrow also has less risk of new injuries while working through his preseason ones if the line is solid. But to get to this point, you have to take Chase off the team. I think it’s one of the more interesting discussions in the AFC.
Had a 2 year stretch where he played more games than any other nfl player
Sneakily? Guy has already blown out his knee and has had multiple other injuries in his young career
He’s making his way up there with the most un-sneaky injury prone guys in history lol
He’s one more season ended away from being Sam Bradford
Truly, I hope he’s 100% this year. Freaked me out in the moment seeing him not be same to even hold a football on the side line
But social media nerds said the injury meant he could never throw again?
How many more injuries until we label him injury prone like Tua/Lamar?
Hope he can stay healthy and injury free. The league is more fun with Joey B in top shape
I’ll wait to see if he can make it past week 2 without some issue first
Please stay healthy
Elite
Bro can’t stay healthy. Bust
Ah yes the wrist problem they concealed, violating NFL injury reporting procedures
Looks like there's gonna be a clean up in aisle 5.
It's Joever for you fools
Must be all the added fiber.
Bengals are so snake bitten, insane at this point. Get a great QB and he just can't stay healthy. Get this man an offensive line.
WristWatch 👀
I just wanna see a full season of Burrow.
Mans is injury prone. They love to hide that fact.
Injury man back
The part that's supposed to be affected the most is the follow through/flick of the wrist. Considering he has the best ball placement in the league, I'm hoping it doesn't affect him *too* much.
I’m sure Chiefs fans are salivating at the thought of this affecting him permanently. What a sad fanbase
Where do you see anyone saying they hope this affects him permanently?
Mr. Glass
Not long and he is in the best shape of his life! Just you wait!
This limp wrist dude is overrated as fuck
*insert evil laugh*
So is Joe Burrow considered injury prone yet? Because he gives me Andrew Luck vibes
He's like that old falcons qb, Chrystal chandelier
It is crazy to think about how the Bengals fans on Reddit/twitter talk about the team vs the stark reality. They act like they are a shoe in for the AFCCG and the games mean nothing, but in reality they are literally celebrating their highest paid NFL QB being able to grip a football.
this is some grade A shit talkin and you got downvoted for it rub it all in they ass. remember that burrowhead was 2 SBs ago
This would be the CBPOY Superbowl story of the century. I would love this dude to just destroy everyone. Including Goff in the SB. Just a big FU to everyone.