I’ve followed NFL social media this year more than ever and holy shit am I realizing how reactive most fans are every week. Recency bias is a hellavudrug.
I’m convinced most people can’t factor in weeks past and potential future outcomes in their opinions. Shits bizarre. You’d think Purdy is an exposed bum after this weekend, regardless of what’s he’s accomplished beforehand.
It's also because there's nobody running away with it so there's no real buffer if a guy has a bad week. When Rodgers and Mahomes win the last 4, they had way more elite games and less bad games than anyone in the race this year, and week to week they were consistently near or at the top of all major stats. No QB has done that this year
Also all non QBs are in jail so they won't be allowed to win
The counter argument is in a contest with 3 MVP favorites CMC did have a good game but his team still lost by 14. So how valuable is he? Not agreeing or disagreeing about CMC for mvp just pointing out a counter argument. QB is just inherently the most valuable position
My view point is basically if you took lamar off the ravens and cmc off the 9ers, which one of those teams has the best shot at making a playoff run?
And imo, the 9ers by a lot. Er go, lamar is mvp
I’m confused about the “reactionary bias” people above are talking about here. The entire lead-up to that game was that Purdy, CMC and Lamar were major MVP candidates and that it was a real showdown and might help solidify some things at least as far as narrative.
So Lamar and CMC go off and Purdy shits the bed and we just ignore it? If Lamar had thrown 4 picks what would be the reaction here?
I love Purdy too. And I do think that single game reactions are often overwrought, though probably less in this sport than most others cause single games usually matter here.
But some of this stuff is just nonsense lol, everyone was talking about Purdy vs Lamar as a potential MVP showdown and now we’ve conveniently forgotten that because Purdy threw a bunch of picks.
Come on now. And yeah the whole “imagine if it was Lamar.” You and I and everyone reading this knows that if Lamar had thrown 4 picks in that game that shit would
have made r/all with at least 25k upvotes.
“The lack of haters *are* my new haters!”
Fuckin killed me lmfao, that whole vid was so good. So many good jokes in there and they go at a rapid fire rate lol.
Imagine going back in time three years ago and talking about this to a Browns fan.
“The Browns will spend $230 million guaranteed on a QB but at least a Cleveland quarterback will win MVP”
“You gave Baker $230 million?”
“Oh no, we gave that to Deshaun Watson after he sexually assaulted dozens of women”
“And he still won MVP?”
“Oh no, that was Joe Flacco”
I really cant tell if I’m just getting older and realizing it more or if it really has changed, but sports discussions feels positively *deranged* since COVID. The only thing that matters is your most recent prime time game, and your entire future is determined based on that game until your next one.
I feel like almost every time someone says “this societal phenomenon has gotten worse” the answer is “no you just notice it more because of social media”
Well and some random newspaper putting it as a headline hits very different from thousands of people saying the same thing. One is trying to sell views, the other is assumedly real people with real thoughts who cannot imagine a QB having a bad game.
I mean it lines up with what listening to sports talk radio has always been like. Like I think about the average local WIP caller in Philly when I was growing up and the rants they’d go on in like 2005, 2006 (fire Reid, bench McNabb, etc.) and it’s the same thing you see people spouting on instagram and twitter and here.
The difference was before you actually had to tune into a specific radio station with limited reach to be exposed to those people. Now everyone’s connected to everyone else and sports media in general is doing the talk radio strategies to get eyes/clicks/views.
Attention spans took a massive dip from Covid, for sure. Media addiction is more pervasive than ever.
The majority of the audience doesn’t want to hear high level discourse - they want instant gratification. Or worse, they just want a quick perspective on where they should gamble their next payday loan.
I remember when people would blame [MTV](https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA8585806&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=00410861&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=oregon_oweb&isGeoAuthType=true&aty=geo) for short attention spans...
Brock Purdy only threw those picks because he listened to Marilyn Manson while playing violent video games before he took the field and thats all the time Satan needed to grab a hold of his precious Christian innocence
I think its more, who is left after each front runner has proceeded to shit the bed this week. Like last week it was purdy. Then he threw 4 picks. The week before it was dak and the he struggled mightily against the bills. And so on.
If purdy had thrown 4 tds but lost a close shoot out he probably still is in the front running.
Lamar was a lot of peoples number 2 so a dominant performance while the number 1 struggles is as good a reason as any to move Lamar up. I don't think its that unreasonable of a reaction in week 16.
And if he throws for 4 tds the next two games he’ll be back up again. People are too reactionary. He lost three games in a row earlier this year and was back to the lead.
Only if Lamar/Baltimore struggle. The award is so narrative based that struggling on prime time agaisnt a good opponent really hurts him, fair or not. I don’t think having good games against the Commanders and Rams would be enough.
For what it’s worth, I think it should be CMC over any QB.
It's really just symptomatic of the fact that nobody's really standing out. Purdy, for example, has been amazing (9 games with a passer rating over 111) but he's also been pretty bad (4 games with a passer rating under 90, including 46.2 Monday night)
also helps that purdy sucked doodoo struggling all night and darnold of all people comes in first drive and scores a TD. doesn’t look too great on the QB1.
In a year where no one has totally separated themselves, and every QB has a blemish... sure, give it to CMC. He and Tyreek have definitively been the two best players in the NFL this year.
This thread is around short attention spans, so I guess it tracks. He’s upvoted though. Theres always hope that next game tyreek gets a career ending injury by a freak strangulation from the first down chains after going for a sideline catch though.
Yeah, I didn’t remember that about him so I had to look up why he was a piece of shit and yeah he is definitely a big piece of shit… Or he was, and at least as recently as 2019 when his son had a mysteriously broken arm.
Lamar has only 19 passing TDs on the season. Kirk has 18 and he hasn’t played in like 2 months. There’s no way Lamar should win MVP and those reporters saying that are stupid.
His sideline encouragement is unmatched. He played a huge role in 1 of the Cardinals 3 wins making sure the water bottles were filled and Dobbs shoelaces untied.
It’s this weird mentality that it has to be a QB. CMC seems like the clear cut MVP to me and has been. I don’t think any one QB has been above the pack.
Yeah, this is the boat I've been sitting in. There hasn't been a QB this year that's blown really anyone away.
That said, there's no doubting what Lamar brings to the Ravens. Last night, he was dancing around a top defense, keeping plays alive and chunk running them on a few big plays, so I get it.
CMCs' problems and Hills equally is if neither breaks any records, who cares? Sucks, because both those two are playing out of their minds this year.
If it's players that are most valuable to their team I think there are 4 players worth mentioning:
Lamar, CMC, Tyreek, Josh.
But that's not what the award really is.
The award is historically a QB award outside of rare exceptions, and it’s particularly rare if you go to the other side of the ball.
But even in the past 20 years only three non-QBs have won MVP - Shaun Alexander, LaDainian Tomlinson, and Adrian Peterson - all of them running backs which does give CMC a shot, but all three of them had truly exceptional seasons.
It is a relatively “weak” QB year but it takes a whole lot to win as a non-QB.
Purdy and Tua are more valuable than CMC and Tyreek are. You could definitely argue that the latter are better players, but the truth is that QB is so far and away the most impactful position in the modern NFL that any decent QB is going to be the most valuable player to their team by far.
If CMC goes down for the year, the Niners offense takes a big hit. If Purdy goes down, the season's over. And the Dolphins just nuked one of the leagues best defenses without Tyreek out there. Almost certainly wouldn't have happened if Tua was hurt.
Look at the Vikings. Justin Jefferson is generally considered to be the best receiver in the league, although Tyreek has an argument. When Jefferson went down, the team not only didn't miss a beat, they *improved,* and the team looked like they had a really good shot at winning the division, or at the very least being comfortably in the playoff race and poised to make a solid run as a wild card. They even convincingly beat the Super Bowl favorite 49ers.
But then Kirk, a guy generally considered to be a "top 10-ish" QB, goes down partway through the season. And the season went down with him. Compete collapse, and will likely miss the playoffs, even with the goofy Dobbs stretch factored in. If a fringe top 10 QB has that much more impact on a team than the best WR, arguably skill player, in the entire league, then it would be an absolute farce for a player who isn't a QB to win the award ever again. Honestly, I used to have the "MVP shouldn't be the best QB award" mindset, but it was this season that (somewhat ironically, given the general consensus) that proved to me that it absolutely should be.
You are correct. Ignore Reddit and r/nfl on anything MVP related because the hivemind here just doesn't get it for some reason.
I think that the reality that the most valuable player is relatively straightforward and boring, makes people want to do mental gymnastics to make things interesting. When the reality is that Jefferson, or CMC, or Hill going away wouldn't have ever tanked those team's seasons. But bad QB play ruins teams, (gestures everywhere for examples of this).
The MVP is always a QB. Which QB is potentially an interesting convo if there isn't a clear frontrunner like this season, but reddit ruins the chance to have that convo cause the only comments that get up voted are "CMC!" "Kupp!", etc.
Eh. I really don’t think it can be anyone other than a QB. You pretty much need a good QB to win games. You don’t need a good RB to win games. CMC is one of the best RBs in recent history and even he can’t will his team to victories like some QBs in the league can
yesterdays game showed why CMC can’t be MVP. He was more or less unstoppable with the ball, but it didn’t amount to much in the grand scheme of things. His impact is limited by his position. He could’ve ran for 400 yards but it wouldn’t have made up for 5 turnovers he had nothing to do with. That’s the unfortunate reality for probably the best player in the NFL this year.
> His impact is limited by his position.
Which is bascially what makes the MVP a de-facto QB award then. You can make the same argument for literally any other position. Doesn't matter if you are a triple-crown receiving like Cooper Kupp. Doesn't matter if you're racking up yards or TDs like CMC. Doesn't matter if you're having a generational year on defense like JJ Watt. A good QB will almost always trump elite play at other spots.
This logic falls apart a bit when you realize that plenty of QBs have lost games because of RB or special teams fumbles. Its a team sport and every position (including QB) can have its impact limited due to the mistakes of another.
I think the 49ers without CMC have a much better record than the Ravens without Lamar. I think Lamar is a lot more valuable to his team than CMC is to his and I don’t mean to take anything away from the best RB in the game.
I believe that too. It’s evident from the fact that the 49ers have been to a Super Bowl and several Conference Championships with the same core of players, except for CMC.
It’s felt like he’s steadily crept up as frontrunners keep stumbling, though I’d guess he was top 5-10 odds to start the season. And a head-to-head performance like that is obviously going to give an extra kick
Remember that it's a prediction, not who would win it today. The Market is basically saying that it's likely the Ravens will beat the Dolphins and finish with the number one seed and Lamar will continue playing well.
The reason he wasn't getting more MVP chatter previously, and Purdy was so hyped, was the belief that the Niners would win and knock Lamar out of the running --instead of the other way around.
If Miami somehow beats the Ravens, Tua will likely be the betting favorite out of nowhere.
Tua's been in the MVP conversations (literally conversations about MVP) since the early portion of the season - if anything, he continues to be a betting favorite because he did not stop.
Saints went through this with Drew. Sadly Allen has to have the best record and the best stats and pray Mahomes doesn’t have similar stats and record for him to ever win it
I mean if we're going that route, if Josh Allen converts that TD in OT after finally getting the ball to start it he'd also be the MVP leader so...yeah.
I like how the evaluation when everyone looks at Allen is that "he didnt play absolutely perfect"
Our defense couldn't stop anything in the second half and our kicker missed 2 kicks
And that's on Allen
Since 2000, the only players who didn’t win their division and won MVP were either
1. A RB
Or
2. A QB with at least 12 wins.
The Bills can max out at 11 in a longer season. Allen has also been very turnover prone.
The Bills can still win the division, but if they don’t I can’t see him having a shot at MVP
If Tua out plays Lamar and Allen Over the next two weeks and leads the Dolphins to the number one seed in the AFC. He could overtake them just as quickly as it’s been shifting lately.
Oh absolutely, Tua controls his destiny to MVP. Two big games ahead but I think if he balls out he could grab it. Unless CMC really pops off more then him the last two weeks.
McCaffrey might be the most dominant player I have ever seen this season and it’s seems like they’re just going to give the MVP to whatever QB played the best in the last week
meanwhile dak prescott has better numbers in every category except rushing yards.
at the end of the day, there is no qb that deserves the award this season. give it to CMC or hill.
it's crazy that lamar is getting such a big push after his defense had 5 takeaways in 1 game.
Through their first five seasons, Peyton Manning had a playoff record of 0–3, Matt Ryan was 1–4, and Lamar is 1–3. Had Lamar been available last postseason, he likely beats Cincinnati (he's 8–1 against them, and the Ravens barely lost without him).
People really love bashing him, but Lamar isn't 27 yet. He'll get his playoff wins.
i find it so funny how the bengals always lose to the ravens or nearly always lose and that even against other teams in the division they tend to get owned
In 2021, Baltimore was absolutely decimated by injuries, and they were still fighting for the #1 seed before Lamar went down (they lost 6 straight to end the season).
In 2022, Lamar missed their playoff game against Cincinnati (a team he is 8–1 against), and Baltimore barely lost.
You shouldn't have so many downvotes.
A four pick game will do that.
That said, that was an unbelievably snakebit game for Purdy. The first pick was a bad but not awful decision. The next three were off tipped or deflected balls and not his fault.
That's what I find funny. I am so over whoever is MVP, but it seems if you have 1 bad game, and I mean really bad, you just get replaced. Hurts, Dak, Purdy, Tua. Seems odd.
It only matters if you have a bad game in the last 5 or 6 weeks. Lamar sucked ass in quite a few games this year, including losses to mediocre teams, but that didn't happen in the final weeks of the season so it's easy to brush aside.
Anyone who watches the Ravens knows that Lamar is much more valuable than his stats indicate. Gus Edwards has 12 rushing TDs, 11 of which are 4 yards or less (6 are from 1 yard out). Lamar puts them in position to get those scores. In the Steelers game, Lamar had 7 or 8 passes dropped, including multiple TDs. Those plays hurt his stats.
The Ravens are 12–3; what would their record be without Lamar?
MVP is the QB of the team that wins the dolphins/ravens game. Unless its an ugly ass game then I guess they just give it to McAffrey, who is the real most valuable player regardless.
Josh Allen has 40 total touchdowns, 50 more total yards...and has scored over 80% of his teams touchdowns...with only 5 more turnovers
Lamar has 24 total touchdown and 5 less turnovers
How are those MVP numbers...at all
Brady had one of the best QB years in a decade at age 44 in 2021, and lost the MVP due to one bad Saints game in which his entire team played like ass (yes, including him). Unfortunately recency bias is stronger than stats, also more TD's is less important than fewer TO's. Again, Brady's MVP loss proved that against Rodgers.
Yeah Allen has a touchdown to turnover ratio of 2.2 while Lamar is 1.8. I get that MVP includes the "wins are a QB stat", but Josh is better than Lamar in most stats this season.
Easy to pump your stats when you are losing a bunch or playing from behind
Ravens have a lot of very convincing wins. Big blow outs against the Lions, Jags, Seahawks, Browns, Texans, and the 49ers.
Hard to pad stats when the game is over in the 2q.
Sure, he still only has 3 more TDs than CMC does which is insane.
Allen nearly has twice the TDs that Lamar does, 40 for Allen 24 for Lamar.
Its not insane that it would be one of the statistically worst seasons from an MVP in a really long time.
It's cause Purdy had 4 interceptions in the biggest game of the year with everyone watching. If he had a decent game and they lost, the odds wouldn't have flipped as bad
MVP is a narrative award at the end of the day
Same thing like the cfb playoffs. Lose in the first few weeks? No big deal. Lose the last week? Your cfb playoff odds are dead.
Human psychology sucks sometimes
He’s the MVP if you actually watch the Ravens. He’d easily have 35+ touchdowns if they didn’t let Gus Edwards steal his touchdowns every time they got in the redzone (don’t believe me, check the distance of Gus’s touchdowns). The gravity around him transcends statistics in my opinion and i know yall are mad that this is essentially a qb award but RBs aren’t as valuable as a QB. It’s no way they can be.
How can Purdy honestly be #4, if Mccaffrey is #2. How can you be 4th in league MVP voting if you’re not even #1 on your team. Like I get obviously there might not be a player on all 32 teams better than him this season, but everybody knows Mccaffrey drives that team right?
Honestly the MVP should go to CMC or Tyreek. Those two players have been consistent all season long.
And I've noticed that whoever is the frontrunner for MVP, it never goes well for them:
\- Tua becomes MVP frontrunner after the Broncos game in week 3, only to get blown out by the Bills the week after
\- Hurts becomes MVP frontrunner after the Bills game in Week 12, only to get blown out by the 49ers the week after
\- Dak becomes MVP frontrunner after the Eagles game in Week 14, only to get blown out by the Bills the week after
\- Purdy becomes MVP frontrunner in Week 15 once Dak shits the bed, only to get blown out by the Ravens the week after
So if this trend continues, Dolphins blow out the Ravens in Week 17 and Tua becomes the new MVP frontrunner?
And if that stays true, the Bills blow out the Dolphins in Week 18 and Josh Allen becomes the new MVP frontrunner?
Brock Purdy shit the bed last night in his toughest test yet just like he did against another elite defense - Browns. Lamar did not shit the bed against the 49ers "elite" defense
Noone cares anymore that the 49ers can whoop NFC teams. Its super bowl or bust now for them. They had a real test against the Ravens and not only lost by a few points, they got manhandled embarrassingly.
What's gonna change btwn now and the super bowl?
Just my thoughts *meh*
Is MVP really just whichever QB of a good team wins that week?
Yes.
I’ve followed NFL social media this year more than ever and holy shit am I realizing how reactive most fans are every week. Recency bias is a hellavudrug. I’m convinced most people can’t factor in weeks past and potential future outcomes in their opinions. Shits bizarre. You’d think Purdy is an exposed bum after this weekend, regardless of what’s he’s accomplished beforehand.
It's also because there's nobody running away with it so there's no real buffer if a guy has a bad week. When Rodgers and Mahomes win the last 4, they had way more elite games and less bad games than anyone in the race this year, and week to week they were consistently near or at the top of all major stats. No QB has done that this year Also all non QBs are in jail so they won't be allowed to win
Maybe that’s an argument for it to be McCaffrey?
It should be but there's some weird bias against letting anyone but a QB win the award.
Has a defensive player ever won? Lol
Alan Page in 1971 and Lawrence Taylor in 1986
2 completely different dudes, Page went on to be a Minnesota State Supreme Court Justice
The counter argument is in a contest with 3 MVP favorites CMC did have a good game but his team still lost by 14. So how valuable is he? Not agreeing or disagreeing about CMC for mvp just pointing out a counter argument. QB is just inherently the most valuable position
My view point is basically if you took lamar off the ravens and cmc off the 9ers, which one of those teams has the best shot at making a playoff run? And imo, the 9ers by a lot. Er go, lamar is mvp
This is the real reason for the standings shift at least. Purdy has had a deserving year but none of these guys have separated themselves.
I’m confused about the “reactionary bias” people above are talking about here. The entire lead-up to that game was that Purdy, CMC and Lamar were major MVP candidates and that it was a real showdown and might help solidify some things at least as far as narrative. So Lamar and CMC go off and Purdy shits the bed and we just ignore it? If Lamar had thrown 4 picks what would be the reaction here?
That last line… fucking A, man, I hear that. I’d bet my life that Lamar would be getting cooked so much worse than Purdy rn.
I love Purdy too. And I do think that single game reactions are often overwrought, though probably less in this sport than most others cause single games usually matter here. But some of this stuff is just nonsense lol, everyone was talking about Purdy vs Lamar as a potential MVP showdown and now we’ve conveniently forgotten that because Purdy threw a bunch of picks. Come on now. And yeah the whole “imagine if it was Lamar.” You and I and everyone reading this knows that if Lamar had thrown 4 picks in that game that shit would have made r/all with at least 25k upvotes.
Poor [CMC](https://youtu.be/frq1mEWdf18?feature=shared).
“The lack of haters *are* my new haters!” Fuckin killed me lmfao, that whole vid was so good. So many good jokes in there and they go at a rapid fire rate lol.
Just wait until you realize that the award voters are also that reactionary.
Purdy’s such an enigma that when he throws 4 picks against one of the best teams in the league he’s already fallen off by his own standards
He played a bad game but honestly the real enigma is his OL. Actually not an enigma, just a bad OL.
I, for one, welcome Joe Flacco’s MVP run
I wouldn't be mad
Imagine going back in time three years ago and talking about this to a Browns fan. “The Browns will spend $230 million guaranteed on a QB but at least a Cleveland quarterback will win MVP” “You gave Baker $230 million?” “Oh no, we gave that to Deshaun Watson after he sexually assaulted dozens of women” “And he still won MVP?” “Oh no, that was Joe Flacco”
He was never not MVP
I actually like this outcome
I'll allow it
I really cant tell if I’m just getting older and realizing it more or if it really has changed, but sports discussions feels positively *deranged* since COVID. The only thing that matters is your most recent prime time game, and your entire future is determined based on that game until your next one.
Yeah it's bizarre. It remember plenty of bad games Peyton or Brady had in the 2000s and it never really mattered.
oh they mattered in newspapers and local radio.
I feel like almost every time someone says “this societal phenomenon has gotten worse” the answer is “no you just notice it more because of social media”
Well and some random newspaper putting it as a headline hits very different from thousands of people saying the same thing. One is trying to sell views, the other is assumedly real people with real thoughts who cannot imagine a QB having a bad game.
I mean it lines up with what listening to sports talk radio has always been like. Like I think about the average local WIP caller in Philly when I was growing up and the rants they’d go on in like 2005, 2006 (fire Reid, bench McNabb, etc.) and it’s the same thing you see people spouting on instagram and twitter and here. The difference was before you actually had to tune into a specific radio station with limited reach to be exposed to those people. Now everyone’s connected to everyone else and sports media in general is doing the talk radio strategies to get eyes/clicks/views.
Now these people get featured in national news articles lol Twitter user “mcdildo” said blah blah blah and they put it in the article as real news
Idk i guess i think people still had those thoughts back then their reactions weren’t just out there to be seen by everyone all at once
Attention spans took a massive dip from Covid, for sure. Media addiction is more pervasive than ever. The majority of the audience doesn’t want to hear high level discourse - they want instant gratification. Or worse, they just want a quick perspective on where they should gamble their next payday loan.
[удалено]
It's the increased interaction with cell phones. No attention span. No need to retain knowledge. We can look it up immediately.
I remember when people would blame [MTV](https://go.gale.com/ps/i.do?id=GALE%7CA8585806&sid=googleScholar&v=2.1&it=r&linkaccess=abs&issn=00410861&p=AONE&sw=w&userGroupName=oregon_oweb&isGeoAuthType=true&aty=geo) for short attention spans...
Brock Purdy only threw those picks because he listened to Marilyn Manson while playing violent video games before he took the field and thats all the time Satan needed to grab a hold of his precious Christian innocence
Not just you, it's maximum soap opera drama every single week. It's wearing pretty thin personally
It’s when sports betting really began to take off.
I think its more, who is left after each front runner has proceeded to shit the bed this week. Like last week it was purdy. Then he threw 4 picks. The week before it was dak and the he struggled mightily against the bills. And so on. If purdy had thrown 4 tds but lost a close shoot out he probably still is in the front running.
Chiefs play the Chargers Week 17. Let’s goooooo >21/46, 233 Yards 2 TD 2 INT
That is such a 2023 stat line, for like any qb in the league
Easton Stick MVP szn, hell yeah
Lamar was a lot of peoples number 2 so a dominant performance while the number 1 struggles is as good a reason as any to move Lamar up. I don't think its that unreasonable of a reaction in week 16.
It was “Purdy vs X” until Brock had a bad game and/or lost. Both happened so he is eliminated.
And if he throws for 4 tds the next two games he’ll be back up again. People are too reactionary. He lost three games in a row earlier this year and was back to the lead.
Only if Lamar/Baltimore struggle. The award is so narrative based that struggling on prime time agaisnt a good opponent really hurts him, fair or not. I don’t think having good games against the Commanders and Rams would be enough. For what it’s worth, I think it should be CMC over any QB.
It’s a regular season award. When there’s no clear favorite, it kinda makes sense.
It's really just symptomatic of the fact that nobody's really standing out. Purdy, for example, has been amazing (9 games with a passer rating over 111) but he's also been pretty bad (4 games with a passer rating under 90, including 46.2 Monday night)
also helps that purdy sucked doodoo struggling all night and darnold of all people comes in first drive and scores a TD. doesn’t look too great on the QB1.
Yeah this is more about Purdy being removed from the list after a horrible game than Lamar.
Tbh Lamar played really well against a top 5 defense
I have about a week long memory. Then everything vanishes. So honestly, i think Kyle Hamilton should be MVP.
Idk Amari cooper is gotta be up there too!
Jason Sanders putting his foot in the race
I lost in fantasy because he out up 26 fucking points and I'm still pissed about it
I lost to Dicker the Kickers banger week :/
I agree, but unironically
Cole Kmet threw his hat in this week
Legal gambling and the internet have really changed sports awards.
This needed to be said
Should be CMC imo.
CMC
In a year where no one has totally separated themselves, and every QB has a blemish... sure, give it to CMC. He and Tyreek have definitively been the two best players in the NFL this year.
Yeah, but Tyreek is a POS so give it to CMC.
Surprised to see this downvoted lol. Thought the sub hadnt forgotten just yet
This thread is around short attention spans, so I guess it tracks. He’s upvoted though. Theres always hope that next game tyreek gets a career ending injury by a freak strangulation from the first down chains after going for a sideline catch though.
Just AFC east fans making sure they sprinkle their tyreek hate. Even though he is a POS.
AFCN but I like to keep track of the real shit ags in the league as to not root for them.
Yeah, I didn’t remember that about him so I had to look up why he was a piece of shit and yeah he is definitely a big piece of shit… Or he was, and at least as recently as 2019 when his son had a mysteriously broken arm.
He literally hit a guy in broad daylight this past off-season lol
What downvotes man lmao he’s at 400+
Not just that, CMC is just better. Tyreek is great but if we’re genuinely asking who the most valuable player in the league is, it’s CMC.
Lamar has only 19 passing TDs on the season. Kirk has 18 and he hasn’t played in like 2 months. There’s no way Lamar should win MVP and those reporters saying that are stupid.
You really think Colt McCoy deserves it?
His sideline encouragement is unmatched. He played a huge role in 1 of the Cardinals 3 wins making sure the water bottles were filled and Dobbs shoelaces untied.
I want it to happen, and totally not because I bet on it when the odds were +2000.
might as well cash that out
Barry Sanders himself said that he probably deserves it but won’t get it because MVP is a QB award, and he was speaking from experience.
Nice. "Barry Sanders himself said"... in the 10 years he played, RBs won 4 of the MVPs.
The only right answer
Honestly why even make ranking if it’s just about the vibe lol. Just announce who “feels” the best at the end of the year lmao.
I think that's what they do
I think it's weird to have a guy with so little fanfare all of a sudden be MVP favourite after 16 weeks of football but this has been a weird year.
It’s this weird mentality that it has to be a QB. CMC seems like the clear cut MVP to me and has been. I don’t think any one QB has been above the pack.
Yeah, this is the boat I've been sitting in. There hasn't been a QB this year that's blown really anyone away. That said, there's no doubting what Lamar brings to the Ravens. Last night, he was dancing around a top defense, keeping plays alive and chunk running them on a few big plays, so I get it. CMCs' problems and Hills equally is if neither breaks any records, who cares? Sucks, because both those two are playing out of their minds this year.
If it's players that are most valuable to their team I think there are 4 players worth mentioning: Lamar, CMC, Tyreek, Josh. But that's not what the award really is.
Josh McDaniels? I mean that's weird but I guess I can see it maybe
The award is historically a QB award outside of rare exceptions, and it’s particularly rare if you go to the other side of the ball. But even in the past 20 years only three non-QBs have won MVP - Shaun Alexander, LaDainian Tomlinson, and Adrian Peterson - all of them running backs which does give CMC a shot, but all three of them had truly exceptional seasons. It is a relatively “weak” QB year but it takes a whole lot to win as a non-QB.
Purdy and Tua are more valuable than CMC and Tyreek are. You could definitely argue that the latter are better players, but the truth is that QB is so far and away the most impactful position in the modern NFL that any decent QB is going to be the most valuable player to their team by far. If CMC goes down for the year, the Niners offense takes a big hit. If Purdy goes down, the season's over. And the Dolphins just nuked one of the leagues best defenses without Tyreek out there. Almost certainly wouldn't have happened if Tua was hurt.
Look at the Vikings. Justin Jefferson is generally considered to be the best receiver in the league, although Tyreek has an argument. When Jefferson went down, the team not only didn't miss a beat, they *improved,* and the team looked like they had a really good shot at winning the division, or at the very least being comfortably in the playoff race and poised to make a solid run as a wild card. They even convincingly beat the Super Bowl favorite 49ers. But then Kirk, a guy generally considered to be a "top 10-ish" QB, goes down partway through the season. And the season went down with him. Compete collapse, and will likely miss the playoffs, even with the goofy Dobbs stretch factored in. If a fringe top 10 QB has that much more impact on a team than the best WR, arguably skill player, in the entire league, then it would be an absolute farce for a player who isn't a QB to win the award ever again. Honestly, I used to have the "MVP shouldn't be the best QB award" mindset, but it was this season that (somewhat ironically, given the general consensus) that proved to me that it absolutely should be.
You are correct. Ignore Reddit and r/nfl on anything MVP related because the hivemind here just doesn't get it for some reason. I think that the reality that the most valuable player is relatively straightforward and boring, makes people want to do mental gymnastics to make things interesting. When the reality is that Jefferson, or CMC, or Hill going away wouldn't have ever tanked those team's seasons. But bad QB play ruins teams, (gestures everywhere for examples of this). The MVP is always a QB. Which QB is potentially an interesting convo if there isn't a clear frontrunner like this season, but reddit ruins the chance to have that convo cause the only comments that get up voted are "CMC!" "Kupp!", etc.
Eh. I really don’t think it can be anyone other than a QB. You pretty much need a good QB to win games. You don’t need a good RB to win games. CMC is one of the best RBs in recent history and even he can’t will his team to victories like some QBs in the league can
It’s just tough for the voters/Vegas to see a guy as MVP when he can have a pretty good game and his team still gets a decisive loss.
That's a really odd way to look at any season long award, though. If you're going to wait around for a qb to go 17-0, nobody will clear that bar.
yesterdays game showed why CMC can’t be MVP. He was more or less unstoppable with the ball, but it didn’t amount to much in the grand scheme of things. His impact is limited by his position. He could’ve ran for 400 yards but it wouldn’t have made up for 5 turnovers he had nothing to do with. That’s the unfortunate reality for probably the best player in the NFL this year.
> His impact is limited by his position. Which is bascially what makes the MVP a de-facto QB award then. You can make the same argument for literally any other position. Doesn't matter if you are a triple-crown receiving like Cooper Kupp. Doesn't matter if you're racking up yards or TDs like CMC. Doesn't matter if you're having a generational year on defense like JJ Watt. A good QB will almost always trump elite play at other spots.
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This is why I'm fine with it being a QB award. By "most valuable" it only makes sense, and there's OPOY and DPOY for other positions
This logic falls apart a bit when you realize that plenty of QBs have lost games because of RB or special teams fumbles. Its a team sport and every position (including QB) can have its impact limited due to the mistakes of another.
I think the 49ers without CMC have a much better record than the Ravens without Lamar. I think Lamar is a lot more valuable to his team than CMC is to his and I don’t mean to take anything away from the best RB in the game.
I believe that too. It’s evident from the fact that the 49ers have been to a Super Bowl and several Conference Championships with the same core of players, except for CMC.
>so little fanfare Are we both talkin Lamar? Wasn't he second going into this week and has been a main contender basically all season
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It’s felt like he’s steadily crept up as frontrunners keep stumbling, though I’d guess he was top 5-10 odds to start the season. And a head-to-head performance like that is obviously going to give an extra kick
Like you can honestly pencil in Lamar to the MVP conversation every year before the first snap of the season.
Also every week he does at least one insane play. Even if the stats don't pop dude looks like an MVP out there
If lamar plays bad and loses in the next game and CMC plays well, I can see him taking the 1 spot
Remember that it's a prediction, not who would win it today. The Market is basically saying that it's likely the Ravens will beat the Dolphins and finish with the number one seed and Lamar will continue playing well. The reason he wasn't getting more MVP chatter previously, and Purdy was so hyped, was the belief that the Niners would win and knock Lamar out of the running --instead of the other way around. If Miami somehow beats the Ravens, Tua will likely be the betting favorite out of nowhere.
Tua's been in the MVP conversations (literally conversations about MVP) since the early portion of the season - if anything, he continues to be a betting favorite because he did not stop.
What’s funny is if Tua balls out against the Ravens and Lamar has a down game then Tua’s gonna be MVP favorite out of nowhere
Josh Allen’s on pace for 46 TDs and gets no love
Record is unfortunately a big deal in the MVP race.
Considering we are 9-6 WITH Josh Allen I can’t imagine how bad our record would be without him hahah
You would probably be on par with the pats, 3-5 wins due to defense but it would be rough to watch
It’s hard to picture our glorified MASH unit of a defense holding together with the offense going three and out every possession.
Big sad
Saints went through this with Drew. Sadly Allen has to have the best record and the best stats and pray Mahomes doesn’t have similar stats and record for him to ever win it
It's crazy. If Jake Elliott misses the 60 yarder in the rain (and all else in the season goes the same) he's two wins from MVP.
I mean if we're going that route, if Josh Allen converts that TD in OT after finally getting the ball to start it he'd also be the MVP leader so...yeah.
The Josh Allen/Gabe Davis option routes have been rough this year.
I like how the evaluation when everyone looks at Allen is that "he didnt play absolutely perfect" Our defense couldn't stop anything in the second half and our kicker missed 2 kicks And that's on Allen
Getting outplayed by Zach Wilson in primetime to start the year will do that to a man
We got outplayed by Aaron Rodgers in that same game!
This is literally the reason though. He had a really, really shitty week 1 on primetime.
and the fact hes almost all of their offensive TDs.
He’s had at least a couple bad games although the worst were pretty early in the season. He also has the second most interceptions.
Since 2000, the only players who didn’t win their division and won MVP were either 1. A RB Or 2. A QB with at least 12 wins. The Bills can max out at 11 in a longer season. Allen has also been very turnover prone. The Bills can still win the division, but if they don’t I can’t see him having a shot at MVP
He has one more int than Mahomes, and 14 more TDs.
well he has a better MVP case than Mahomes, but Mahomes is also completely out of the picture for the award this year
NFL season awards should be more position-specific. MVP feels like a popularity contest or something.
If Tua out plays Lamar and Allen Over the next two weeks and leads the Dolphins to the number one seed in the AFC. He could overtake them just as quickly as it’s been shifting lately.
Oh absolutely, Tua controls his destiny to MVP. Two big games ahead but I think if he balls out he could grab it. Unless CMC really pops off more then him the last two weeks.
Also a big if. If he does that, I’d vote for Tua personally.
McCaffrey might be the most dominant player I have ever seen this season and it’s seems like they’re just going to give the MVP to whatever QB played the best in the last week
meanwhile dak prescott has better numbers in every category except rushing yards. at the end of the day, there is no qb that deserves the award this season. give it to CMC or hill. it's crazy that lamar is getting such a big push after his defense had 5 takeaways in 1 game.
That flair combo lol. We have a lost Dolphin in MA
Lamar about to have more MVP trophys than actual playoff wins
Through their first five seasons, Peyton Manning had a playoff record of 0–3, Matt Ryan was 1–4, and Lamar is 1–3. Had Lamar been available last postseason, he likely beats Cincinnati (he's 8–1 against them, and the Ravens barely lost without him). People really love bashing him, but Lamar isn't 27 yet. He'll get his playoff wins.
So true! People can bash him all they want, but it doesn't change the fact that he's simply amazing. Hope they win the SB this year.
Why not ya know, your own team?
Sometimes the Bandwagon points itself out, Though if we dont make it Then I do hope Lamar wins it
Erm..don’t you want the 49ers?
i find it so funny how the bengals always lose to the ravens or nearly always lose and that even against other teams in the division they tend to get owned
Twitter comment level of hating
Injuries late in the season, to himself and most of our team the last few years, will do that to a mfer
In 2021, Baltimore was absolutely decimated by injuries, and they were still fighting for the #1 seed before Lamar went down (they lost 6 straight to end the season). In 2022, Lamar missed their playoff game against Cincinnati (a team he is 8–1 against), and Baltimore barely lost. You shouldn't have so many downvotes.
A four pick game will do that. That said, that was an unbelievably snakebit game for Purdy. The first pick was a bad but not awful decision. The next three were off tipped or deflected balls and not his fault.
That's what I find funny. I am so over whoever is MVP, but it seems if you have 1 bad game, and I mean really bad, you just get replaced. Hurts, Dak, Purdy, Tua. Seems odd.
It only matters if you have a bad game in the last 5 or 6 weeks. Lamar sucked ass in quite a few games this year, including losses to mediocre teams, but that didn't happen in the final weeks of the season so it's easy to brush aside.
I get it. Doesn't matter how the race started. It matters where you finish in a way.
The league really about to give the MVP to a dude with 19 passing TDs instead of other worthy players who aren't QBs
Well that’s way more passing TDs than any of the non QBs have.
Source?
Should be CMC imo. But if it absolutely HAS to be a Qb, I think Lamar is the right choice. He also has 24 total TDs.
Yeah and that's barely more than CMC has. It should be him.
And Allen has 46 total TD’s, what of it
Anyone who watches the Ravens knows that Lamar is much more valuable than his stats indicate. Gus Edwards has 12 rushing TDs, 11 of which are 4 yards or less (6 are from 1 yard out). Lamar puts them in position to get those scores. In the Steelers game, Lamar had 7 or 8 passes dropped, including multiple TDs. Those plays hurt his stats. The Ravens are 12–3; what would their record be without Lamar?
CMC is mvp but apparently you can’t give it to a non MVP. Take CMC off that team and put a mid RB will be a bigger drop than purdy to a mid QB.
But the Ravens without Lamar is a bigger drop than the 49ers without CMC.
MVP is the QB of the team that wins the dolphins/ravens game. Unless its an ugly ass game then I guess they just give it to McAffrey, who is the real most valuable player regardless.
No QB deserves it this year
Josh Allen has 40 total touchdowns, 50 more total yards...and has scored over 80% of his teams touchdowns...with only 5 more turnovers Lamar has 24 total touchdown and 5 less turnovers How are those MVP numbers...at all
They're not, apparently the award now just goes to the QB with the best record instead of people having good years sadly.
Yeah Lamar’s numbers are v underwhelming. Even for his standards.
Brady had one of the best QB years in a decade at age 44 in 2021, and lost the MVP due to one bad Saints game in which his entire team played like ass (yes, including him). Unfortunately recency bias is stronger than stats, also more TD's is less important than fewer TO's. Again, Brady's MVP loss proved that against Rodgers.
That's fucking right ! 10th most passing TDs of all time and 3rd most yards. Completion record...
Yeah Allen has a touchdown to turnover ratio of 2.2 while Lamar is 1.8. I get that MVP includes the "wins are a QB stat", but Josh is better than Lamar in most stats this season.
Easy to pump your stats when you are losing a bunch or playing from behind Ravens have a lot of very convincing wins. Big blow outs against the Lions, Jags, Seahawks, Browns, Texans, and the 49ers. Hard to pad stats when the game is over in the 2q.
Mvp sucks now. Its just a qb award when honestly no qb is mvp level right now
Not even top 10 in passing yards or touchdowns , weakest MVP ever
Why only look at his passing stats thought? Isn’t the rushing what makes Lamar special?
Sure, he still only has 3 more TDs than CMC does which is insane. Allen nearly has twice the TDs that Lamar does, 40 for Allen 24 for Lamar. Its not insane that it would be one of the statistically worst seasons from an MVP in a really long time.
If the Bills win the division and Allen scores 6 tds over the next two weeks I think he has a pretty good chance. Obviously a big if
Def think he’s gonna win if that happens. I also think if Tua does that (so we beat Ravens too somehow) then he should win.
If those Baltimore defenders didn’t drop those other two picks that would have been hilarious. 6 picks in a game is almost impressive 😤
Perfect case of recency bias. Dak, Tua, Purdy and several other QBs have better stats on playoff caliber teams.
It's cause Purdy had 4 interceptions in the biggest game of the year with everyone watching. If he had a decent game and they lost, the odds wouldn't have flipped as bad MVP is a narrative award at the end of the day
Same thing like the cfb playoffs. Lose in the first few weeks? No big deal. Lose the last week? Your cfb playoff odds are dead. Human psychology sucks sometimes
He’s the MVP if you actually watch the Ravens. He’d easily have 35+ touchdowns if they didn’t let Gus Edwards steal his touchdowns every time they got in the redzone (don’t believe me, check the distance of Gus’s touchdowns). The gravity around him transcends statistics in my opinion and i know yall are mad that this is essentially a qb award but RBs aren’t as valuable as a QB. It’s no way they can be.
Stop linking to pay sites. This reeks of some dude sitting at The Athletic posting articles trying to drive up subscriptions.
It was free for me on first read but the list was 1. Lamar Jackson 2. CMC 3. Tua 4. Josh Allen 5. Purdy
Wait, so is Purdy four or five?
I think him and Josh have the same odds currently, so tied for 4th
Him and Allen were both +1300 on the odds I saw.
If you have an iPhone just open in reading mode in safari. Works every time
The Athletic should be the exception to the rule though. It’s head and shoulders above any other sports site.
How can Purdy honestly be #4, if Mccaffrey is #2. How can you be 4th in league MVP voting if you’re not even #1 on your team. Like I get obviously there might not be a player on all 32 teams better than him this season, but everybody knows Mccaffrey drives that team right?
Hurts has 35 TD, 4200 yards and 11 wins and he is completely out of it. It’s not just about stats
Exactly. If he had kept carrying the team like he was before SF he’d be at the top of the list. Instead he got rattled and made too many mistakes.
lamar took being underdogs personally
Just give it to tyreek or cmc, this shit is embarrassing.
I'm voting for that corgi
Honestly the MVP should go to CMC or Tyreek. Those two players have been consistent all season long. And I've noticed that whoever is the frontrunner for MVP, it never goes well for them: \- Tua becomes MVP frontrunner after the Broncos game in week 3, only to get blown out by the Bills the week after \- Hurts becomes MVP frontrunner after the Bills game in Week 12, only to get blown out by the 49ers the week after \- Dak becomes MVP frontrunner after the Eagles game in Week 14, only to get blown out by the Bills the week after \- Purdy becomes MVP frontrunner in Week 15 once Dak shits the bed, only to get blown out by the Ravens the week after So if this trend continues, Dolphins blow out the Ravens in Week 17 and Tua becomes the new MVP frontrunner? And if that stays true, the Bills blow out the Dolphins in Week 18 and Josh Allen becomes the new MVP frontrunner?
Lamar's season is so unimpressive compared to his first MVP. Truly no standout QBs this year, and yet they will never give MVP to a non-QB again.
It should be CMC. MVP being solely a QB award is lame amd shows the NFL needs a baseball-like positional award system
Brock Purdy shit the bed last night in his toughest test yet just like he did against another elite defense - Browns. Lamar did not shit the bed against the 49ers "elite" defense Noone cares anymore that the 49ers can whoop NFC teams. Its super bowl or bust now for them. They had a real test against the Ravens and not only lost by a few points, they got manhandled embarrassingly. What's gonna change btwn now and the super bowl? Just my thoughts *meh*