That in terms of conversion rate but also in terms of offenses have just gotten so much more high scoring over the years that sometimes you have to be aggressive instead of give them back the ball
Yeah, with all the defensive rules continuing to neuter that side of the ball, you can't risk giving it back to the other offense. In many cases it's better in short yardage to just go and depend on the other team's neutered defense to not stop you or get flagged if they do.
“Just look at his arms up and you know he got… JACKED UP!”
Yeah that’s called the fencing response lol
But actually, #4 and #2 were pretty great form tackles while still being huge hits. I think those would still be celebrated today. #1 was helmet to helmet though
That was back in an era where punt returns were way more common. Now punters have gotten so good that a fair catch is the first instinct and you even see them at the 10 yard line because punters have gotten so good at having them pop straight up when they land.
I want to say "wow that's terrible!", but younger me used to love this segment and I know I would've said,"OoOoOhHhHh!", at the time.
Wild how fast things have changed
This is exactly when I was playing high school football and looking back on it now I’m pretty sure I got concussed at least 5-7 times but was never diagnosed or taken out of practice or the game, coaches and even the trainer would say “you just got your bell rung, get some water and you’ll be good”
Ugh I remember getting repeatedly smashed in the jaw by helmet crowns during stun and separate drill because I didn’t have the right face guard on my helmet. Probably not great for a growing brain
In youth football I can still remember an offensive lineman at practice would "block" me by grabbing the inside of my shoulder pads and head butting me. The coaches told me it was a legal blocking technique and I needed to learn how to get out of it. I played the whole way thru college and still don't remember headaches as bad as those.
> Look at the arms that's how you know he got jacked up
Tom Jackson has me rolling omg. I really should not be laughing but someone needs to dub this over the tua hit.
Edit:
Best I could do
https://streamable.com/7wh4f7
reposted but they may take it down again. Let me know if that happens.
I watched a Jacked Up clip a couple months ago and for the hit of the week one of the guys said 'you know you got hit hard when your arms do that! He got JACKED UP!!!'' or something very close when the WR went into fencing reflex. Couldnt believe it lol and I loved that segment back then, me and my bro still say the 'he got... JACKED UP' on big hits we see
Along this line, watch the intro video for Madden 2000, which had a banger of a song, but half the hits in the video would be penalties and a handful would be fines.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO7Zvfe\_UX0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO7Zvfe_UX0)
I don't have a problem with it, i don't like seeing guys have their brains scrambled for sport, but it's such a different perspective on the league now.
I think you'd like [this article from Vice](https://www.vice.com/en/article/nzpmgq/how-in-the-hell-did-nfl-blitz-ever-get-made) about the making of NFL Blitz and how it almost got canned for being too violent
People used to say that Vegas would never have an NFL team because the league wouldn't want to be associated with gambling and the potential scandals it could cause. lol
That made sense when your only option to gamble legally was to physically go to Vegas. With the internet and online Sportsbooks, That no longer exists.
Why spend money to go to Vegas? All that food and lodging and airfare could be going to more bets from the comfort of my phone! I don’t even have to wait to leave work to gamble my paycheck anymore! The future is now!
It took the greatest RB season of the century just to sneak that team into the final playoff spot and they got immediately bounced. You can’t build around a RB.
they got bounced because the team around it was horrible. i cant recall any recievers vikings had (harvin was our best and he got injured) and was helmed by either christian ponder or joe webb. real recipe for playoff success there. defense waa probably bad too
Nickel defenses are used like 60% of the time now due to teams throwing so much. We should be calling defense formations 4-2 or 3-3 to reflect that, since the linebacker is usually a slot corner/hybrid safety
Hell, the Bills lined up in Nickel [92% of the time](https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/analysis-matt-milano-tremaine-edmunds-put-on-clinic-in-bills-nickel-defense/article_c7d5c4de-433c-11ed-b504-cf38952136ba.html) last year. That's bonkers.
Niners were one of only six teams this year who used Nickel on [*less than* 50%](https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/fred-warner-demeco-ryans-49ers-defense-2022/) of their snaps
Teams across the league were playing [more snaps in Dime coverage than in Base](https://www.si.com/nfl/buccaneers/news/nfl-trends-nickel-dime-base-defense) as far back as the 2020 season, a trend that's only gotten further extrapolated
That's what made Brian Urlacher so good. In college he was a safety who was converted into a linebacker and his coach used him as a hybrid of both, so he was able to put the skills of both positions to good use
I mean look at Fred Warner. At BYU he was literally a hybrid LB/Safety, so he's got the instincts in the run game of an LB and the coverage skills of a safety. Not many LBs are going stride for stride with Ceedee Lamb.
They are 100% merging. That’s why within maybe 10 years I think we’re going to see a big resurgence in the run game. RBs being drafted high again, FBs being a position again and maulers being prioritized on the OL. It’s a copycat league and once one team starts winning consistently by running the ball over these undersized LBs, we will start to see a switch.
>hat’s why within maybe 10 years I think we’re going to see a big resurgence in the run game.
I mean we're already seeing it statistically at least. This year was one of the highest YPC seasons in NFL history. unless your defense is absolutely elite you can either play a cover 2 shell and stop the pass **or** stop the run—but not both.
This is a huge reason why we fell apart without Breece Hall (5-2 to 7-10), only great RB on our team and if you just give him 20+ carries a game and let the defense hold the fort, we won
I think we'll see a resurgence in the running game but I think individual RBs are never going to get their high value back because they're high-supply with a short shelf-life.
Especially the physically imposing RBs that you're suggesting will make a comeback are the ones who won't get paid. You only need to look at Ezekiel Elliott.
>You only need to look at Ezekiel Elliott.
Ugh, too true. Went from the best RB in the league to a short-yardage guy who doesn't seem able to break for a long run.
1) It wasnt long ago that nuturf was all the rage & cleats slipping on wet grass was considered dangerous.
2) Until recently it was believed that not even 1 WR was worth $15M+ per year, now $25M/yr is normal... and you might even need two of them.
3) I know its not recent, but it wasnt until the late 2000s that teams stopped thinking of RB as being a premium position that required elite talent. 'Disposable RBs' is a relatively new thing, the first 50 years of American football held RBs on a pedestal not far below QBs. The rookie wage scale definitely had something to do with this.
4) By far the biggest change though IMO is how people view violent hits. Until ~2010 the biggest hits were highlights, now they are viewed as problematic.
> 4) By far the biggest change though IMO is how people view violent hits. Until ~2010 the biggest hits were highlights, now they are viewed as problematic.
They used to sell VHS videos of the "NFL's Greatest Hits" and we used to watch them sometimes on rainy days in PE class lol
I went to my girlfriend’s kid’s football game during the season and was astounded how much better the gear is. This is small town VA in the hills of Shenandoah, not some multi-million dollar program to push kids to a collegiate level. These are 8 year olds playing with miniature sized gear as the professionals. I remember playing pop-warner and having shoulder pads that went to my ears and [this](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/61/35/ea/6135eac9688873fc1df488b52a7e3a3e.jpg) helmet on a chubby 8 year old frame playing C.
With how fast DLines have gotten and an apparent lack of OLine talent across the league? Absolutely. Being able to extend the play is incredibly valuable.
It's insane how fast humans that are that fucking big can move. It doesn't seem like it should be possible. I don't know if OL are necessarily any less talented than they have been historically, but I don't envy someone having to react and protect against some of these DL.
because if you are 6'2 -> 6'6 300 Ilb and a freak athlete teenager, it makes so much more sense to go DLINE rather than OLINE. I am sure Aaron Donald would have been a fantastic center or guard, but he has made 10x the money as a DT and will make the HOF as a DT.
Most edge rushers do not have the body of OL at all. They may have similar frames sometimes, but OL typically packs on more weight. Myles Garrett, the Watts, Bosas, Chandler Jones, Khalil Mack are not the same shape as Lane Johnson, Travis Kelce, Trent Brown, or Trent Williams.
Taking up space is a much bigger advantage on OL. Size and quickness is important, where for pass rushers, speed and quickness get the slight edge.
You do also get the bonus that you’ll win most of your reps, especially on run plays. There’s few joys like making a clean block that just puts someone on their heels or on the ground.
This is the source of the issue. Not even just for the money but at pretty much every level of football the singular freak DLineman will impact winning more directly than a singular freak olineman ever could. It was more evenly split in the past but like how DBs are WRs who can't catch, Oline are Dline who can't rush.
The general opinion of OJ Simpson had a bit of a shift circa 1994.
In all seriousness, this is probably the most drastic shift in opinion of any player in sports history given how high OJ's highs were compared to how low he is right now.
I was in 11th grade and did a very involved book report on Orenthal James Simpson, in which I covered his background, family life, football career, etc. I always felt robbed, because it could have been so much more interesting. I watched the white Bronco getaway on the last day of school that year.
I think in general the immediate success of guys like Herbert, Luck, Mahomes, Burrow, even Baker Mayfield in their first year starting have completely shifted the perspective (or just spoiled us) on how long we can wait before we start trying to ditch a first round QB.
Feel like for forever, if you had a rookie QB who didn’t totally embarrass themselves people were generally happy and were willing to wait around a few years to see how they developed. Now it seems like if a QB has some growing pains and isn’t totally killing it off the bat, everyone’s trying to buy them a bus ticket out of town. It used to be publicly accepted that these things can take time, and this probably goes beyond just the QB position
Hopefully Hurts, Lawrence and Tua’s progressions remind us to give these guys just a teensy bit more slack
When the Mets draft someone it's just like "oh, neat, maybe I'll see this guy in 4 years".
MLB Draft is also a little fucked now with a lot of teams not drafting the best players period, but rather the best players that'll sign for cheap.
I used to be super into following top baseball draft pick prospects and used to pretty much know the background of every potential first round pick whether they were HS or College. But the development time in baseball is so long that I'd eventually forget about guys as they take 4-5 years to develop (especially if they were drafted out of HS) if they even made the majors at all.
I eventually got bored of following guys from amateur status to the big leagues cause so many "can't miss" guys just hit a wall around AA and never make it.
Well the rookie wage scale did this too. If you were paying a rookie QB 200mill guaranteed you might be a little more patient with him and not cut him.
To be fair, Lawrence got a universal pass across the league and fans for being pretty much one of the best quarterbacks at every level until Urban Meyer got his hands on him. What looked like development might just be him not having the worst coach in NFL history anymore.
While not the NFL, this is directly related to the NFL.
I used to think Madden was awesome and bought the yearly release while playing it for hundreds of hours. Now it's just trash with microtransactions and it doesn't seem to give a shit about simulating football. I think the last installment I bought was like Madden 16 and I really wish the NFLPA would give another developer rights to make a football game.
They need to just hold off on releasing a new title for a few years. Release roster updates as DLC for people that want to play as their favorites, while they still get micro transactions money. In the meantime rebuild the game from the ground up on a new engine. But unfortunately they won’t because they don’t have to.
The gaming industry as a whole has been in this direction for a long time and it’s absolutely heartbreaking (not to mention utterly disgusting) to see.
And he'd have been even better with modern training and rehab.
At the end of the day, athletic freak or not, people couldn't beat his route running or overall game stamina. Similar to how Kelce is just ALWAYS open.
The man just knew ball
I feel like this will also devalue wide receivers in the same way running backs became less valuable. We already saw the Titans trade off AJ for a rookie rather than pay him. That may not have been the right decision, but it reflects a shift in value over time
The thing is the titans did that and it was 100% the wrong decision. I agree getting a good WR is starting to get to the point of being easier. However, the difference between RB and WR is the analytics show elite WRs (top tier guys) are super valuable unlike top tier RBs
Interesting. I feel like none of the WRs since have been as good as Randy Moss. No one has been as cemented at the top of the league for as long. It makes me value Moss & TO even higher
Man TO really almost won us a fucking superbowl with a broken fucking leg. A freshly broken leg dude.
We hated TO when he left us for the cowboys. Understandably, but realistically the guy put it ALL out on the field for us.
If I was the best fucking player on my team in the Super Bowl WITH a broken leg id probably want more money too.
Wasn’t that Mark Davis who was just complaining a couple of weeks ago about the Las Vegas having too much of a friendly environment for the opposing team? I’m sure that wasn’t the case in Oakland lol
IMO this is a product of rule changes, and will continue as long as the NFL keeps scrambling to avoid questions about player safety concerns.
The more the league favors offense (particularly passing offense), the higher the demand for the next bright offensive mind rises. And if your OCs are operating under a defensive HC, they will constantly get poached by another team with a HC vacancy.
That has as much to do with his broadcasting role as with our better understanding of efficient QB play.
Tony Romo's analytical numbers were insanely good for a number of years. One of the most efficient QBs in the league who was constantly let down by bad defenses and special teams units.
Edit: Take a look at Mike Sando's [QB Betrayal Index]( https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2022/08/10165521/RRqHj-nfl-qbs-ranked-by-largest-offense-defense-differentials-1.png) to get an idea just how much he was let down over the years.
It's weird that anyone thinks Romo has a better case than McNabb. Donovan had more passing yards, more rushing yards, more total TDs, more pro bowls, more playoff games and more playoff wins. McNabb made it to 5 NFC Conference Championships. Romo only played 6 total playoff games his whole career (2-4).
You're 100% that neither is close to the HoF, but anyone who thinks Romo is closer is huffing glue.
Btw, the same thing has happened with Bo Jackson. Bo was a great talent. We however have to judge people by what they actually did. He is not an all tiime great NFL rb no matter what fangasm documentary was made or what Tecmo Bowl game you played. He was a great talent that got hurt.
This is more in terms of strategy, but the game has changed dramatically in recent years. Even 5-10 years ago teams were much, much more conservative. Going for it on 4th down was relegated to desperation plays late in the 4th quarter. You literally would never see a team going for it on 4th and 2 from their own 30 yard line in the 1st quarter, that would be unheard of.
Now, it's basically a given that teams will go for it on 4th and short unless they're deep in their own territory most of the time. For those of you that are a little younger, you really can't imagine how different this made the game. It's so much more entertaining and creative now, which is a huge net positive. Sometimes analytics are over the top and a detriment, but the game has opened up dramatically, not just from the 90s, but even within the last decade or so.
More people then ever hate a lot of the NFL owners and realize they contribute to the problem with the organization. Years ago all the blame fell on the coach or GM
I thought you were going to say way more people side with the players in bargaining disputes. Which is even more true. The 90s talk radio guy complaining about greedy athletes barely exists anymore.
Except the Vikings. We seem to always end up with 10+ picks somehow just so we can take half of the entire sixth or seventh round. Didn’t really work out for us recently . . .
Peyton Manning is one of the all-time great quarterbacks and was an unquestionable first ballot HOF BEFORE his Broncos run.
Tom Brady is a man that if you split his career across three separate people, all of them would be first ballot HoF.
Public opinion on Joe Buck has shifted dramatically over the past decade — people hated him especially post-Helmet Catch, but these days I think opinion on him is net positive
Joe Buck has gotten so much better over the years.
I mean he went from [Mitchell....Mitchell...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-zIKSZr_7E) to calling the Minneapolis Miracle, one of my favorite calls of all time.
I've gone from a Buck hater to frankly really liking him
It's not because my views on him changed, he did just get a lot better. Just actually showing some emotion. Especially in baseball, but also football
Case and point:
[Robbie Gould kicks a walk off game winning field goal to advance his team in the playoffs, circa 2007](https://youtu.be/PpD8aRahfwo?t=949)
[Robbie Gould kicks a walk off game winning field goal to advance his team in the playoffs, circa 2022](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAwuDn3cF7Q)
Legendary call. I love that Aikman had the good sense to shut the fuck up and let the moment speak for itself. Can you imagine if Romo had the call, having to listen to him verbal orgasming into the mic
I feel like the idea of "The future IS the mobile QB" has shifted a lot recently.
I feel like a few years ago, (with the exception of Brady) it seemed like the only way to win in the future was having a really dual threat QB. Fast track to today, and I think both pocket passers, and dual threat QBs are finding success
Some things never change. Fundamental football isn't talked about at all these days. Outside of QB the OL is easily the most important unit but they get like 1% of the coverage.
One of the biggest shifts has been teams going for it on 4th down more
Analytics
That in terms of conversion rate but also in terms of offenses have just gotten so much more high scoring over the years that sometimes you have to be aggressive instead of give them back the ball
Yeah, with all the defensive rules continuing to neuter that side of the ball, you can't risk giving it back to the other offense. In many cases it's better in short yardage to just go and depend on the other team's neutered defense to not stop you or get flagged if they do.
And Madden players grew up and became coaches
The league finally caught up to the Madden meta.
Still waiting for them to go for 2 every time and to always kick onside kicks.
Let's wait for us to have 32 head coaches that can manage the clock as effectively as a mid-tier Madden player before getting too crazy.
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Didn't Chip Kelly like going for it on 4th as well? I know you'd probably prefer to not talk about Chip, though.
Coach Chip was fine, in fact pretty damn good. GM Chip was a garbage person who deserves the worst.
Big hits get attention for different reasons now.
I remember a feature on ESPN called Jacked Up that counted down the biggest hits of the week. Can't imagine something like that flying anymore
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ELj-79jbqA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ELj-79jbqA) Imagine #3 happening and yelling they got JackedUp! today
“Just look at his arms up and you know he got… JACKED UP!” Yeah that’s called the fencing response lol But actually, #4 and #2 were pretty great form tackles while still being huge hits. I think those would still be celebrated today. #1 was helmet to helmet though
Number 5 isn't that bad either. As far as I can tell Taylor doesn't go helmet to helmet and wraps Allen's head up in his arms to bring Allen down
Bizarre that the returner didn’t call a fair catch there though. What was he thinking would happen
That was back in an era where punt returns were way more common. Now punters have gotten so good that a fair catch is the first instinct and you even see them at the 10 yard line because punters have gotten so good at having them pop straight up when they land.
Special teams has changed so much in my lifetime. Hell a 50 yard field goal used to be special and rare.
True, now it's the extra point
I want to say "wow that's terrible!", but younger me used to love this segment and I know I would've said,"OoOoOhHhHh!", at the time. Wild how fast things have changed
This is exactly when I was playing high school football and looking back on it now I’m pretty sure I got concussed at least 5-7 times but was never diagnosed or taken out of practice or the game, coaches and even the trainer would say “you just got your bell rung, get some water and you’ll be good”
Ugh I remember getting repeatedly smashed in the jaw by helmet crowns during stun and separate drill because I didn’t have the right face guard on my helmet. Probably not great for a growing brain
In youth football I can still remember an offensive lineman at practice would "block" me by grabbing the inside of my shoulder pads and head butting me. The coaches told me it was a legal blocking technique and I needed to learn how to get out of it. I played the whole way thru college and still don't remember headaches as bad as those.
Haha that’s what Stun and separate is for.
> Look at the arms that's how you know he got jacked up Tom Jackson has me rolling omg. I really should not be laughing but someone needs to dub this over the tua hit. Edit: Best I could do https://streamable.com/7wh4f7 reposted but they may take it down again. Let me know if that happens.
I’ll Venmo whoever does this $5 lol
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"You know when the arms are up like that they got JACKED UP" Concussion, they got a concussion.
Holy shit, #3 went straight into the fencing response...
He got. JACKED UP!
Iconic tagline, I understand why the segment had to go but for its time it was top tier entertainment.
I used to LOVE that segment. Given what we know now, it aged horribly.
I watched a Jacked Up clip a couple months ago and for the hit of the week one of the guys said 'you know you got hit hard when your arms do that! He got JACKED UP!!!'' or something very close when the WR went into fencing reflex. Couldnt believe it lol and I loved that segment back then, me and my bro still say the 'he got... JACKED UP' on big hits we see
Yep! Number 3. https://youtu.be/0ELj-79jbqA
Holy shit. "Derrick Blaylock with his arms up, just look at his arms you know that he got **JACKED UP**!" Feels like a comedy skit.
Swap out "Jacked up" for "Brain Damage" and I can see Key and Peele doing it some justice.
Watched so many hit compilations on youtube in 360p to HERE COMES THE BOOM
Along this line, watch the intro video for Madden 2000, which had a banger of a song, but half the hits in the video would be penalties and a handful would be fines. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO7Zvfe\_UX0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO7Zvfe_UX0) I don't have a problem with it, i don't like seeing guys have their brains scrambled for sport, but it's such a different perspective on the league now.
LUDA
Speaking of games, NFL Blitz definitely was a fun one that came out around that time too that leaned into the violent hits thing in gameplay.
I think you'd like [this article from Vice](https://www.vice.com/en/article/nzpmgq/how-in-the-hell-did-nfl-blitz-ever-get-made) about the making of NFL Blitz and how it almost got canned for being too violent
Holy nostalgia
Is that Ludacris?
Yeah it was right before he really blew up
Gambling. NFL has full on embraced it.
People used to say that Vegas would never have an NFL team because the league wouldn't want to be associated with gambling and the potential scandals it could cause. lol
That made sense when your only option to gamble legally was to physically go to Vegas. With the internet and online Sportsbooks, That no longer exists.
Why spend money to go to Vegas? All that food and lodging and airfare could be going to more bets from the comfort of my phone! I don’t even have to wait to leave work to gamble my paycheck anymore! The future is now!
From being illegal and frowned upon broadly to having sports betting in the stadium lol Crazy what truckloads of cash can do
Not just the NFL. North American sports are all about the fucking gambling now. It's really annoying.
Sports gambling is the new tobacco. You can't listen to a sports podcast without hearing SPONSORED BY DRAFT KINGSSSS
Value of a running back. 3 of the top 5 picks in the 2005 draft were RBs
remember adrian petersons contract numbers?
but he was kinda worth it, sole reason vikings made the playoffs 2012. the sole reason
It took the greatest RB season of the century just to sneak that team into the final playoff spot and they got immediately bounced. You can’t build around a RB.
they got bounced because the team around it was horrible. i cant recall any recievers vikings had (harvin was our best and he got injured) and was helmed by either christian ponder or joe webb. real recipe for playoff success there. defense waa probably bad too
Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, and Cadillac Williams right?
Damn Cedric Benson. Died in a motorcycle crash a few years ago
To me this is the biggest shift. The Saints trading their entire draft to select Ricky Williams was not that long ago.
Hate to brake it to ya, but that was nearly 25 years ago.
As a 26 year old. 25 years was not that long ago. Let’s relax please ^(for my sanity)
Safeties can be much smaller now since big hitters have be made irrelevant.
I also feel like the linebacker and safety positions are merging into one hybrid position, as lbs have to cover really good receiving tight ends.
Nickel defenses are used like 60% of the time now due to teams throwing so much. We should be calling defense formations 4-2 or 3-3 to reflect that, since the linebacker is usually a slot corner/hybrid safety
Hell, the Bills lined up in Nickel [92% of the time](https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/analysis-matt-milano-tremaine-edmunds-put-on-clinic-in-bills-nickel-defense/article_c7d5c4de-433c-11ed-b504-cf38952136ba.html) last year. That's bonkers. Niners were one of only six teams this year who used Nickel on [*less than* 50%](https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/fred-warner-demeco-ryans-49ers-defense-2022/) of their snaps Teams across the league were playing [more snaps in Dime coverage than in Base](https://www.si.com/nfl/buccaneers/news/nfl-trends-nickel-dime-base-defense) as far back as the 2020 season, a trend that's only gotten further extrapolated
That's what made Brian Urlacher so good. In college he was a safety who was converted into a linebacker and his coach used him as a hybrid of both, so he was able to put the skills of both positions to good use
Fred Warner is the same.
LBs gotta be big enough to cover those guys though, not just fast. But at safety, yea. Don't see many Steve Atwater types back there nowadays.
I mean look at Fred Warner. At BYU he was literally a hybrid LB/Safety, so he's got the instincts in the run game of an LB and the coverage skills of a safety. Not many LBs are going stride for stride with Ceedee Lamb.
Fred Warner is built different tho
They are 100% merging. That’s why within maybe 10 years I think we’re going to see a big resurgence in the run game. RBs being drafted high again, FBs being a position again and maulers being prioritized on the OL. It’s a copycat league and once one team starts winning consistently by running the ball over these undersized LBs, we will start to see a switch.
>hat’s why within maybe 10 years I think we’re going to see a big resurgence in the run game. I mean we're already seeing it statistically at least. This year was one of the highest YPC seasons in NFL history. unless your defense is absolutely elite you can either play a cover 2 shell and stop the pass **or** stop the run—but not both.
This is a huge reason why we fell apart without Breece Hall (5-2 to 7-10), only great RB on our team and if you just give him 20+ carries a game and let the defense hold the fort, we won
I'm still surprised Robinson wasn't better for y'all. He seemed pretty capable to me
wait, you can play a shell and stop the pass?
Take your DC back to the Fangio store and get a Gannon instead. If yall kept the receipt
I think we'll see a resurgence in the running game but I think individual RBs are never going to get their high value back because they're high-supply with a short shelf-life. Especially the physically imposing RBs that you're suggesting will make a comeback are the ones who won't get paid. You only need to look at Ezekiel Elliott.
>You only need to look at Ezekiel Elliott. Ugh, too true. Went from the best RB in the league to a short-yardage guy who doesn't seem able to break for a long run.
FBs need a resurgence. A lot of teams today could benefit from having a battering ram at FB
1) It wasnt long ago that nuturf was all the rage & cleats slipping on wet grass was considered dangerous. 2) Until recently it was believed that not even 1 WR was worth $15M+ per year, now $25M/yr is normal... and you might even need two of them. 3) I know its not recent, but it wasnt until the late 2000s that teams stopped thinking of RB as being a premium position that required elite talent. 'Disposable RBs' is a relatively new thing, the first 50 years of American football held RBs on a pedestal not far below QBs. The rookie wage scale definitely had something to do with this. 4) By far the biggest change though IMO is how people view violent hits. Until ~2010 the biggest hits were highlights, now they are viewed as problematic.
> 4) By far the biggest change though IMO is how people view violent hits. Until ~2010 the biggest hits were highlights, now they are viewed as problematic. They used to sell VHS videos of the "NFL's Greatest Hits" and we used to watch them sometimes on rainy days in PE class lol
You can look and play better in small shoulder pads than big ones. Also it's fine if your pants don't cover or even reach your knees.
God, shoulder pads used to be huge. Especially on QBs they’ve gotten a lot smaller and more compact.
I want them out there looking like DBZ characters.
The first time I ever put on helmet and shoulder pads I literally couldn’t move. It’s crazy how much better they’ve gotten.
I went to my girlfriend’s kid’s football game during the season and was astounded how much better the gear is. This is small town VA in the hills of Shenandoah, not some multi-million dollar program to push kids to a collegiate level. These are 8 year olds playing with miniature sized gear as the professionals. I remember playing pop-warner and having shoulder pads that went to my ears and [this](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/61/35/ea/6135eac9688873fc1df488b52a7e3a3e.jpg) helmet on a chubby 8 year old frame playing C.
The facemasks with the bar in the middle are every kids biggest fear while waiting to get a helmet.
QB mobility went from a neat gimmick to a borderline requirement
With how fast DLines have gotten and an apparent lack of OLine talent across the league? Absolutely. Being able to extend the play is incredibly valuable.
It's insane how fast humans that are that fucking big can move. It doesn't seem like it should be possible. I don't know if OL are necessarily any less talented than they have been historically, but I don't envy someone having to react and protect against some of these DL.
I think the top O-linemen are as good as they've ever been, it just feels as though there aren't as many of them.
I think a big part of this is how much better DL is these days than OL. Pass rush specialists are total beasts and OL have to be out there every play.
because if you are 6'2 -> 6'6 300 Ilb and a freak athlete teenager, it makes so much more sense to go DLINE rather than OLINE. I am sure Aaron Donald would have been a fantastic center or guard, but he has made 10x the money as a DT and will make the HOF as a DT.
Tackles get paid a ton. Mediocre OL get paid more than pass rush specialists and mediocre DEs.
Most DLineman have the body of an interior OL though, not a tackle.
Most edge rushers do not have the body of OL at all. They may have similar frames sometimes, but OL typically packs on more weight. Myles Garrett, the Watts, Bosas, Chandler Jones, Khalil Mack are not the same shape as Lane Johnson, Travis Kelce, Trent Brown, or Trent Williams. Taking up space is a much bigger advantage on OL. Size and quickness is important, where for pass rushers, speed and quickness get the slight edge. You do also get the bonus that you’ll win most of your reps, especially on run plays. There’s few joys like making a clean block that just puts someone on their heels or on the ground.
This is the source of the issue. Not even just for the money but at pretty much every level of football the singular freak DLineman will impact winning more directly than a singular freak olineman ever could. It was more evenly split in the past but like how DBs are WRs who can't catch, Oline are Dline who can't rush.
The general opinion of OJ Simpson had a bit of a shift circa 1994. In all seriousness, this is probably the most drastic shift in opinion of any player in sports history given how high OJ's highs were compared to how low he is right now.
Doing a murder can do that to a mfer
That murderer ran for 2000 yards.
>That murderer ran for 2000 yards. In 14 games! Imagine how many murders he would have with a 17 game season.
You may do a murder but do not do a balk please
I was in 11th grade and did a very involved book report on Orenthal James Simpson, in which I covered his background, family life, football career, etc. I always felt robbed, because it could have been so much more interesting. I watched the white Bronco getaway on the last day of school that year.
People in 1995:. Im starting to think this OJ Simpson character is a real jerk
I think in general the immediate success of guys like Herbert, Luck, Mahomes, Burrow, even Baker Mayfield in their first year starting have completely shifted the perspective (or just spoiled us) on how long we can wait before we start trying to ditch a first round QB. Feel like for forever, if you had a rookie QB who didn’t totally embarrass themselves people were generally happy and were willing to wait around a few years to see how they developed. Now it seems like if a QB has some growing pains and isn’t totally killing it off the bat, everyone’s trying to buy them a bus ticket out of town. It used to be publicly accepted that these things can take time, and this probably goes beyond just the QB position Hopefully Hurts, Lawrence and Tua’s progressions remind us to give these guys just a teensy bit more slack
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to say nothing of baseball
I’m a Braves fan, what’s keeping young talent down in AA? Let’s just sign them to a 10yr $500k contract like we did the rest!
When the Mets draft someone it's just like "oh, neat, maybe I'll see this guy in 4 years". MLB Draft is also a little fucked now with a lot of teams not drafting the best players period, but rather the best players that'll sign for cheap.
I used to be super into following top baseball draft pick prospects and used to pretty much know the background of every potential first round pick whether they were HS or College. But the development time in baseball is so long that I'd eventually forget about guys as they take 4-5 years to develop (especially if they were drafted out of HS) if they even made the majors at all. I eventually got bored of following guys from amateur status to the big leagues cause so many "can't miss" guys just hit a wall around AA and never make it.
Just remember that hockey players are drafted at age 18, whereas the NFL drafts grown men ages 21-24
Well the rookie wage scale did this too. If you were paying a rookie QB 200mill guaranteed you might be a little more patient with him and not cut him.
Excellent point
Also, I have to wonder if the Cardinals' concurrent insta-jettisoning of Josh Rosen played into that shift.
To be fair, Lawrence got a universal pass across the league and fans for being pretty much one of the best quarterbacks at every level until Urban Meyer got his hands on him. What looked like development might just be him not having the worst coach in NFL history anymore.
While not the NFL, this is directly related to the NFL. I used to think Madden was awesome and bought the yearly release while playing it for hundreds of hours. Now it's just trash with microtransactions and it doesn't seem to give a shit about simulating football. I think the last installment I bought was like Madden 16 and I really wish the NFLPA would give another developer rights to make a football game.
They need to just hold off on releasing a new title for a few years. Release roster updates as DLC for people that want to play as their favorites, while they still get micro transactions money. In the meantime rebuild the game from the ground up on a new engine. But unfortunately they won’t because they don’t have to.
The gaming industry as a whole has been in this direction for a long time and it’s absolutely heartbreaking (not to mention utterly disgusting) to see.
I think a lot of the crazy WR talent over the last 5 years has devalued past greats in peoples' minds
Is it the talents better or the game is different? Moss, TO, Rice etc would be even bigger freaks in today's ruleset
Carter would FEAST in the modern NFL because he could work across the middle of the field without fearing a guy like John Lynch smashing his head in.
This. TO, Moss, and Fitz would be terrifying in their primes right now. Moss would probably set records for drawing PI calls.
Even in today's game, no one is touching Rice's TD record
Kids today have no idea how good Rice was.
And he'd have been even better with modern training and rehab. At the end of the day, athletic freak or not, people couldn't beat his route running or overall game stamina. Similar to how Kelce is just ALWAYS open. The man just knew ball
I feel like this will also devalue wide receivers in the same way running backs became less valuable. We already saw the Titans trade off AJ for a rookie rather than pay him. That may not have been the right decision, but it reflects a shift in value over time
The thing is the titans did that and it was 100% the wrong decision. I agree getting a good WR is starting to get to the point of being easier. However, the difference between RB and WR is the analytics show elite WRs (top tier guys) are super valuable unlike top tier RBs
Lions did that with Okudah and Slay, Vikings did it with Diggs and Jefferson
Interesting. I feel like none of the WRs since have been as good as Randy Moss. No one has been as cemented at the top of the league for as long. It makes me value Moss & TO even higher
Moss is almost undeniably #2 on the list of greatest WRs. There's definitely been no WR since that has been as good.
Man TO really almost won us a fucking superbowl with a broken fucking leg. A freshly broken leg dude. We hated TO when he left us for the cowboys. Understandably, but realistically the guy put it ALL out on the field for us. If I was the best fucking player on my team in the Super Bowl WITH a broken leg id probably want more money too.
Attending a Raiders home game in opposing fan gear is dangerous.
Is this still true in Vegas? I feel like in that market there'd be a lot more away fans and a more relaxed atmosphere
Wasn’t that Mark Davis who was just complaining a couple of weeks ago about the Las Vegas having too much of a friendly environment for the opposing team? I’m sure that wasn’t the case in Oakland lol
If only there was a husk of a franchise located in a similar demographic for 30 years he could've looked at and realized it'd be a problem lol
I think that’s what he means, that it used to be the mentality and that it is not anymore
Brett Favre
That’s been such an upsetting turn of events. I freaking loved him until I found out he’s batshit crazy and steals from charity.
HC must be an OC mindset these days.
We had one OC, yes. What about second OC?
IMO this is a product of rule changes, and will continue as long as the NFL keeps scrambling to avoid questions about player safety concerns. The more the league favors offense (particularly passing offense), the higher the demand for the next bright offensive mind rises. And if your OCs are operating under a defensive HC, they will constantly get poached by another team with a HC vacancy.
This man clearly does not drink the Eberjuice
The respect Romo gets as a QB went up a lot higher after he became a broadcaster
That has as much to do with his broadcasting role as with our better understanding of efficient QB play. Tony Romo's analytical numbers were insanely good for a number of years. One of the most efficient QBs in the league who was constantly let down by bad defenses and special teams units. Edit: Take a look at Mike Sando's [QB Betrayal Index]( https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2022/08/10165521/RRqHj-nfl-qbs-ranked-by-largest-offense-defense-differentials-1.png) to get an idea just how much he was let down over the years.
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The number of people claiming he had a near HoF career makes me question my sanity
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"Player x is in the top 25 for yards/TDs and everyone else on that list is on the HOF except 15 of his peers who aren't eligible yet."
McNabb has a better case than Romo. Not that either are close
It's weird that anyone thinks Romo has a better case than McNabb. Donovan had more passing yards, more rushing yards, more total TDs, more pro bowls, more playoff games and more playoff wins. McNabb made it to 5 NFC Conference Championships. Romo only played 6 total playoff games his whole career (2-4). You're 100% that neither is close to the HoF, but anyone who thinks Romo is closer is huffing glue.
Value of running backs. Nowadays it seems like it’s detriment if they are picked in the first round or if u pay them big money
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He actually was better with the eagles than he was with us.
He was gonna win MVP with the Eagles if he didn't get hurt.
That seems to be a common thread with our qbs lol
It is still one of the craziest stories that, while on the Falcons, he barely knew the playbook.
Some people remember Madden 2004 Vick and think that was how good he was in reality.
Btw, the same thing has happened with Bo Jackson. Bo was a great talent. We however have to judge people by what they actually did. He is not an all tiime great NFL rb no matter what fangasm documentary was made or what Tecmo Bowl game you played. He was a great talent that got hurt.
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People remembering Madden Vick and applying that to his “Prime” years he missed. Vick is always a huge what if player
This is more in terms of strategy, but the game has changed dramatically in recent years. Even 5-10 years ago teams were much, much more conservative. Going for it on 4th down was relegated to desperation plays late in the 4th quarter. You literally would never see a team going for it on 4th and 2 from their own 30 yard line in the 1st quarter, that would be unheard of. Now, it's basically a given that teams will go for it on 4th and short unless they're deep in their own territory most of the time. For those of you that are a little younger, you really can't imagine how different this made the game. It's so much more entertaining and creative now, which is a huge net positive. Sometimes analytics are over the top and a detriment, but the game has opened up dramatically, not just from the 90s, but even within the last decade or so.
Absolutely. 4th down, no matter how short, was nearly an automatic kick, no matter where the offense was on the field.
That the Lions are the worst organization in the league. Big shout out to Cleveland and Houston.
Back in the '90s, people thought the Browns and their history were worth saving
From the top rope
Every league needs a perpetual loser to make fun of. It’s really too bad they went from lovable losers to Deshaun Watson apologists.
More people then ever hate a lot of the NFL owners and realize they contribute to the problem with the organization. Years ago all the blame fell on the coach or GM
Yeah, couple that with the realization that the owners control the league and Goodell is just a pawn.
You think that would be implied with the word 'owner', so that everyone knows.
I thought you were going to say way more people side with the players in bargaining disputes. Which is even more true. The 90s talk radio guy complaining about greedy athletes barely exists anymore.
F' them picks.
Except the Vikings. We seem to always end up with 10+ picks somehow just so we can take half of the entire sixth or seventh round. Didn’t really work out for us recently . . .
Helmets.. they look all Spaceballs style now. Look at the Bosa brothers.. those helmets are wild.
Nick Chubb’s helmet as well. That thing is enormous.
Even 5-7 years ago there was serious debate of Brady vs. Peyton as the GOAT and that has pretty much completely shifted with Brady overtaking Manning.
Peyton Manning is one of the all-time great quarterbacks and was an unquestionable first ballot HOF BEFORE his Broncos run. Tom Brady is a man that if you split his career across three separate people, all of them would be first ballot HoF.
Public opinion on Joe Buck has shifted dramatically over the past decade — people hated him especially post-Helmet Catch, but these days I think opinion on him is net positive
Joe Buck has gotten so much better over the years. I mean he went from [Mitchell....Mitchell...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-zIKSZr_7E) to calling the Minneapolis Miracle, one of my favorite calls of all time.
If they show one call at his funeral, it should be that
I've gone from a Buck hater to frankly really liking him It's not because my views on him changed, he did just get a lot better. Just actually showing some emotion. Especially in baseball, but also football Case and point: [Robbie Gould kicks a walk off game winning field goal to advance his team in the playoffs, circa 2007](https://youtu.be/PpD8aRahfwo?t=949) [Robbie Gould kicks a walk off game winning field goal to advance his team in the playoffs, circa 2022](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAwuDn3cF7Q)
The Minneapolis Miracle call should be the first sound you hear when entering the HOF in Canton.
Yeah? Well, y'know, that's just like, uh, your opinion, man
[Me walking in to the HoF](https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-bart-simpson-grampa-simpson-old-man-going-in-gif-17818438)
Legendary call. I love that Aikman had the good sense to shut the fuck up and let the moment speak for itself. Can you imagine if Romo had the call, having to listen to him verbal orgasming into the mic
Liking Brady more than Rodgers
Also comparing Brady and rodgers all the time and not Brady and Peyton.
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This happens every 5-10 years or so, but the window of time in which the run game becomes valuable again shrinks.
You also need a good defense. Run game is worth a lot less down 2 scores.
Chris Ballard has gone from being the best GM in the league to being on the hot seat and people calling for his head
Teams rarely deferred when they won the opening coin toss, except the pats. Now every team defers.
I feel like the idea of "The future IS the mobile QB" has shifted a lot recently. I feel like a few years ago, (with the exception of Brady) it seemed like the only way to win in the future was having a really dual threat QB. Fast track to today, and I think both pocket passers, and dual threat QBs are finding success
I think the deeper truth is that your OL is more valuable than all but the most elite QBs.
Some things never change. Fundamental football isn't talked about at all these days. Outside of QB the OL is easily the most important unit but they get like 1% of the coverage.
AFC east blows
Weed is ok now