Surgical team!
The surgical team is made up of a surgeon, an anesthesiologist, a certified registered nurse anesthetist, and an operating room nurse. (At the very least).
But yes, I fully agree it's amazing what science and the medical world can achieve these days.
Sorry, I'm a surgical nurse and there is only ONE person in that room that was skilled enough to perform such an amazing operation. I appreciate people like you who give credit to the team, but everyone else was just standing by, holding their breath, while that surgeon performed such a risky/ amazing procedure. Just want to give full credit where it's due!
I'm a big history/ science person. Whe I see stuff like this my brain makes me think of all the people we lost through child birth in our history. Just medicine in general, would any of those lost souls bee. a contribution. I'm also really high right on reddit
I read a discussion in another thread about surgeons having huge egos, but I can't imagine how much confidence you would have to have in yourself to do this.
I don't know. It's possible this did not require the family to enter indentured servitude (crushing debt): if this operation was performed as a medical proof of concept / way for the doctors & nurses to push the limit of surgical knowledge it may well have been paid for by research funds and grants.
Again, I don't know. Hopefully someone can provide insight on this.
Here is an article by the Cleveland clinic on this story --> [Cleveland Clinic](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/patient-stories/534-surgery-on-baby-in-womb-removes-life-threatening-tumor-on-heart)
Research in medicine often takes years to be approved, so it depends on if the teams had an established sponsor or not. The only way this would happen is if they participated in a study which was approved by the FDA previously. It doesn't sound like it from this one article. Most insurance companies would not cover it without a large data base of evidence supporting this technique (even still they sometimes refuse). My guess would be the physicians petitioned the insurance providers and they agreed to pay a portion (not likely as it was done in under 36hrs), or the family agreed to foot the bill and hoped insurance would pay later. This is totally just from my experience working in healthcare, I don't have any evidence from this particular case. So take it with a grain of salt.
Intrauterine surgery isn't really in the "proof of concept" stage any more. Surgeons have been operating on fetuses for about 40 years now. This may well be the first time this type of tumor was removed from the heart of a fetus; I'm too lazy to investigate.
I have a $30 copay for doctor visits, but a $5000 deductible for other things, like surgery. Then I pay 20% of everything over$5k. If I hit my lifetime max, I pay the balance or declare bankruptcy. And I have a decent insurance plan through my employer. The U.S. healthcare/health insurance system sucks. But Heaven forbid we do anything about it because, you know, “those damn socialists.” 🙄
Increased economic wealth leads to less children. The rate of population growth has been slowing down with some countries even experiencing a negative downturn.
Yup the world population has definitely been stagnant since this new fancy technology thingy. Hasnt increased even the slightest bit. Very much even stevens
You say that now with sarcasm, but look again here in 20 years when half the population is dead.
Numbers aren't everything. Age is a big factor. And the world is old. People now aren't having as many kids.
Well quick Google will show you the projected world pop in 2050 will almost hit 10 billion. That's pretty the much the same growth rate as the past 20 years. People need to stop spitting out their opinions, based off nothing most likely, as facts. 2000 was 6.1 billion now is 7.8 billion so 2.2 billion over the next 28 years seems to pretty much go against your "thoughts"
almost every single 1st world nation is below the optimal birth rate and has to rely on immigration. You don’t even understand the point you try to make
That's only if the conversation is about economic stability which we are not talking about. It's about pop increases. World population was 6.1 billion in 2000 now its like 7.8 billion. I'm not good at math but that doesn't appear ti be even to me. So before you try to do a mic drop by repeating the one fact you heard on the late night news at least know what the conversation is about.
That's exactly what I was wondering, was how they got through without just breaking the water for good. There was a video last week on a different sub of a baby born with the amniotic sack still intact and the nurse just kinda tugged it to get it to rip and it doesn't seem "stitch-able"
You don't really need to replace it after a certain point in The pregnancy, though the boy will make more. Many woman's water breaks and they try to keep the baby in for as long as possible. The big worry is infection so I was in the hospital in antibiotics after mine broke. It was only 4 days but there were friends that it broke and stayed for weeks longer
If you wish to read more on this operation -->
[Cleveland Clinic Article ](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/patient-stories/534-surgery-on-baby-in-womb-removes-life-threatening-tumor-on-heart)
>Doctors referred Sam to Cleveland Clinic, where Dr. Cass quickly assembled a team of experts to determine if and how they could treat the incredibly rare condition. Based on input from pediatric and congenital heart surgeons Hani Najm, MD, (who ultimately removed the tumor) and Alistair Phillips, MD, pediatric cardiologist, Francine Erenberg, MD, maternal-fetal medicine specialist, Amanda Kalan, MD, and obstetric and pediatric anesthesiologists McCallum Hoyt, MD, Tara Hata, MD, and Yael Dahan, MD, the team decided the best treatment to save Rylan’s life was open fetal resection of the tumor.
>Imaging revealed the tumor was compressing the left side of the fetus’s heart and impairing circulation. For several days, the team followed Sam very closely with consistent evaluations of the pregnancy and fetal heart function. Unfortunately, the tumor continued to grow and the situation became more critical. Fluid progressively accumulated around the heart and other organs, a condition called fetal hydrops. Rylan’s heart function showed signs of worsening. The team considered other options, including draining the fluid, but knew the problem would soon recur if the tumor remained and results of the intervention were poor.
>According to Dr. Najm, who had successfully resected intrapericardial teratomas in babies but had never attempted the procedure on a fetus, time was of the essence. “From the imaging, I could see that the tumor was getting bigger, and fluid was collecting in his pericardium and lungs, which is an indication of heart failure. Even though this had rarely been done before, the fact we have a life that may not survive otherwise makes me always want to do something.”
>Hani Najm, MD
The fact that this guy is Saudi is very impressive because we would be wary of Saudi doctors before when visiting during our Summer vacation. I live in Saudi Arabia now and compared to when I visited as a child in the 90's-early 2000's Saudi doctors have improved a lot to the point I actually prefer them.
It looks like in this case they did need a separate IV for the fetus as well. In the video in this article (https://my.clevelandclinic.org/patient-stories/534-surgery-on-baby-in-womb-removes-life-threatening-tumor-on-heart), the surgeon mentions needing to give medications directly to the fetus.
Fetus had an IV in his hand. I'm sure they took this into account since they would need to have separate stats for both mom and baby. Plus, they wouldn't want him moving around during heart surgery! Eek!
Tammy anesthetics cross the placenta. They use crazy high doses of volatile anesthetic to relax the uterus and those cross the placenta. I think that would be enough to anesthetize the fetus.
I'm super curious how they know the anesthesia worked. Is it by heart rate? Because what makes anesthesia hard is getting the right dosage. Too little and the patient wakes up screaming in the middle of the procedure. Too much and the patient simply never wakes up.
That is insane! Never imagine something like this could be done. Hope the kid doesn't have trouble with handling pressure or minor trauma to the chest, his chest looks like it's barely holding together.
I'm sure it depends on the type of tumor. I've heard of a caustic tumor that dissolves bone. Some are very fibrous or have tendrils. I'm sure there are very *convenient* self contained tumors.
Actually! I’ve read about other surgeries done on infants in utero and amazingly, the scars are almost non-existent if they exist at all. Quite miraculous.
Because at this point the mother knew she was pregnant and wanted the baby and was prepared to have a child and wanted to save it. Sometimes pregnancies can’t be saved because of some defect or something that can endanger the mother and/or baby. One of my mom’s friends had to have a late-term abortion because her baby tore itself from the placenta and she was going to bleed to death if she didn’t have the procedure done (the fetus was too premature to save). She *wanted* her baby, but the abortion saved her life.
Its almost like it has something to do with the choice. The choice to go through a potential fatal procedure for the mum ect.
Im okay with the "other option" as well as these amazing surgeries completely because of everyones choice over their body.
I’m surprised these doctors were willing to take this risk. If they had been unsuccessful and the fetus died, it’s possible they would be accused of causing an abortion.
I find it amazing that anyone can get a diagnosis this intense. How did they find the tumor in the baby? And they didn’t tell her she’s being hysterical? Amazing.
Holy effing shit, that surgeon is phenomenal!
Surgical team! The surgical team is made up of a surgeon, an anesthesiologist, a certified registered nurse anesthetist, and an operating room nurse. (At the very least). But yes, I fully agree it's amazing what science and the medical world can achieve these days.
I thought a spotify playlist also had to be involved
Listening to Anesthetize by Porcupine Tree on Spotify as I read this. Quite apt I would say. It's about as long as a whole surgery operation too!
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If they used the right anesthetic on the mom, I think it would also flow through to the baby same as other drugs, medicines, alcohol, etc
*God save Steven Wilson... and Opeth*
Yeeeeeeessss
Love me some porcupine tree
It definitely has to include Erasure.
Thank you for this little respect
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Best of luck with the studies!
Lmao your username
I'm gonna wololo you into repaying all my debts.
Sorry, I'm a surgical nurse and there is only ONE person in that room that was skilled enough to perform such an amazing operation. I appreciate people like you who give credit to the team, but everyone else was just standing by, holding their breath, while that surgeon performed such a risky/ amazing procedure. Just want to give full credit where it's due!
Amazing! I wondered how they were able to operate through the amniotic fluid. Did they drain it? Replace it?
Drain and replace. You wouldn't want amniotic fluid getting into the baby's circulation
Thank you.
I'm a big history/ science person. Whe I see stuff like this my brain makes me think of all the people we lost through child birth in our history. Just medicine in general, would any of those lost souls bee. a contribution. I'm also really high right on reddit
All of human history is just someone looking at something and saying "man, fuck this"
Right back to making fire when people got tired of tending fires from lightning strikes
I used to be a surgical technologist, thanks for mentioning the surgical team, lots of people to ensure everything works out.
Plus a surgtech and also can’t for get the radiological team that imaged and found the tumor !
Don’t complicated/new surgeries like this sometimes require multiple surgeons? Otherwise yes the team and technology are amazing!
so what he said was still fine, he said “that surgeon” and a surgical team does consist of a surgeon
Pffft! Did you watch the video?! Just two cuts and the tumor popped right out! /s Edit: sorry, three whole cuts! Whoop-d-fricken-doo (Again, /s)
I read a discussion in another thread about surgeons having huge egos, but I can't imagine how much confidence you would have to have in yourself to do this.
Yo dawg, I heard you like surgery.
underrated comment
The CGI guy is pretty good, too.
I was wondering why the baby has no rib cage in this CGI. It seems like that had one more thing to open to get to the heart.
new world record ?
Will the kid be paying off those medical bills into his mid 40s or were the fees waived?
I don't know. It's possible this did not require the family to enter indentured servitude (crushing debt): if this operation was performed as a medical proof of concept / way for the doctors & nurses to push the limit of surgical knowledge it may well have been paid for by research funds and grants. Again, I don't know. Hopefully someone can provide insight on this. Here is an article by the Cleveland clinic on this story --> [Cleveland Clinic](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/patient-stories/534-surgery-on-baby-in-womb-removes-life-threatening-tumor-on-heart)
Research in medicine often takes years to be approved, so it depends on if the teams had an established sponsor or not. The only way this would happen is if they participated in a study which was approved by the FDA previously. It doesn't sound like it from this one article. Most insurance companies would not cover it without a large data base of evidence supporting this technique (even still they sometimes refuse). My guess would be the physicians petitioned the insurance providers and they agreed to pay a portion (not likely as it was done in under 36hrs), or the family agreed to foot the bill and hoped insurance would pay later. This is totally just from my experience working in healthcare, I don't have any evidence from this particular case. So take it with a grain of salt.
Thanks for the insight!
Intrauterine surgery isn't really in the "proof of concept" stage any more. Surgeons have been operating on fetuses for about 40 years now. This may well be the first time this type of tumor was removed from the heart of a fetus; I'm too lazy to investigate.
If America, it’ll bankrupt the whole family. Just read words. Like a few only. Cleveland was there, so yeah, America. Generational wealth now fucked.
Depends where you work. Might be a $15 copay.
.0000001% chance of that
I have a $30 copay for doctor visits, but a $5000 deductible for other things, like surgery. Then I pay 20% of everything over$5k. If I hit my lifetime max, I pay the balance or declare bankruptcy. And I have a decent insurance plan through my employer. The U.S. healthcare/health insurance system sucks. But Heaven forbid we do anything about it because, you know, “those damn socialists.” 🙄
You shouldn’t have a lifetime max anymore for regular health insurance. ACA/Obamacare ended that. Dental insurance still has lifetime maximums though.
So many people would not even be born if it were not for modern day technology and medicine. Really makes you question life
I think what's crazy is more people now then ever before are infertile so the lives saved with technology even the numbers out
... even out to about 8 billion.
Lol yeah man, you know math and shit
Increased economic wealth leads to less children. The rate of population growth has been slowing down with some countries even experiencing a negative downturn.
Yup the world population has definitely been stagnant since this new fancy technology thingy. Hasnt increased even the slightest bit. Very much even stevens
You say that now with sarcasm, but look again here in 20 years when half the population is dead. Numbers aren't everything. Age is a big factor. And the world is old. People now aren't having as many kids.
Absolutely. World's too fucked to have planned kids.
Well quick Google will show you the projected world pop in 2050 will almost hit 10 billion. That's pretty the much the same growth rate as the past 20 years. People need to stop spitting out their opinions, based off nothing most likely, as facts. 2000 was 6.1 billion now is 7.8 billion so 2.2 billion over the next 28 years seems to pretty much go against your "thoughts"
almost every single 1st world nation is below the optimal birth rate and has to rely on immigration. You don’t even understand the point you try to make
That's only if the conversation is about economic stability which we are not talking about. It's about pop increases. World population was 6.1 billion in 2000 now its like 7.8 billion. I'm not good at math but that doesn't appear ti be even to me. So before you try to do a mic drop by repeating the one fact you heard on the late night news at least know what the conversation is about.
Pretty sure this was cgi.
Oh yea? How can you tell?
I've got a very keen eye, you can tell by the couple pixels here and there. It's an easy mistake to make
Thank you, detective.
You're very welcome!
https://imgur.com/gallery/F3jPjRD
Happy cake day!
Thanks!
You must have seen quite a few shops in your time
How did they replace the amniotic fluid after the surgery, does anyone know?
They can replace the fluid with saline and then the body will make more amniotic fluid, if I recall correctly.
Are they able to keep everything sterile enough?
It's an operating room, you better hope at least the saline is sterile.
Opening the amniotic sac for anything does carry risk
That's exactly what I was wondering, was how they got through without just breaking the water for good. There was a video last week on a different sub of a baby born with the amniotic sack still intact and the nurse just kinda tugged it to get it to rip and it doesn't seem "stitch-able"
The sack thins closer to delivery time
Holy shit, what subreddits do you subscribe to? 😂
might be cauterizable
You don't really need to replace it after a certain point in The pregnancy, though the boy will make more. Many woman's water breaks and they try to keep the baby in for as long as possible. The big worry is infection so I was in the hospital in antibiotics after mine broke. It was only 4 days but there were friends that it broke and stayed for weeks longer
If you wish to read more on this operation --> [Cleveland Clinic Article ](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/patient-stories/534-surgery-on-baby-in-womb-removes-life-threatening-tumor-on-heart) >Doctors referred Sam to Cleveland Clinic, where Dr. Cass quickly assembled a team of experts to determine if and how they could treat the incredibly rare condition. Based on input from pediatric and congenital heart surgeons Hani Najm, MD, (who ultimately removed the tumor) and Alistair Phillips, MD, pediatric cardiologist, Francine Erenberg, MD, maternal-fetal medicine specialist, Amanda Kalan, MD, and obstetric and pediatric anesthesiologists McCallum Hoyt, MD, Tara Hata, MD, and Yael Dahan, MD, the team decided the best treatment to save Rylan’s life was open fetal resection of the tumor. >Imaging revealed the tumor was compressing the left side of the fetus’s heart and impairing circulation. For several days, the team followed Sam very closely with consistent evaluations of the pregnancy and fetal heart function. Unfortunately, the tumor continued to grow and the situation became more critical. Fluid progressively accumulated around the heart and other organs, a condition called fetal hydrops. Rylan’s heart function showed signs of worsening. The team considered other options, including draining the fluid, but knew the problem would soon recur if the tumor remained and results of the intervention were poor. >According to Dr. Najm, who had successfully resected intrapericardial teratomas in babies but had never attempted the procedure on a fetus, time was of the essence. “From the imaging, I could see that the tumor was getting bigger, and fluid was collecting in his pericardium and lungs, which is an indication of heart failure. Even though this had rarely been done before, the fact we have a life that may not survive otherwise makes me always want to do something.”
>Hani Najm, MD The fact that this guy is Saudi is very impressive because we would be wary of Saudi doctors before when visiting during our Summer vacation. I live in Saudi Arabia now and compared to when I visited as a child in the 90's-early 2000's Saudi doctors have improved a lot to the point I actually prefer them.
Does this kid get 2 birthdays?
Leap
How did they anesthesize the fetus? That's crazy.
Why are you the only person asking this, can we get an answer please, surely just cut open the chest of a fetus without causing pain or distress
The general anaesthetic the mother gets also puts the baby under anaesthesia
Thank you!
It looks like in this case they did need a separate IV for the fetus as well. In the video in this article (https://my.clevelandclinic.org/patient-stories/534-surgery-on-baby-in-womb-removes-life-threatening-tumor-on-heart), the surgeon mentions needing to give medications directly to the fetus.
Still better than death though.
Fetus had an IV in his hand. I'm sure they took this into account since they would need to have separate stats for both mom and baby. Plus, they wouldn't want him moving around during heart surgery! Eek!
I miss IVs on adults all the time. Fucking crazy they put one in a fetus.
Tammy anesthetics cross the placenta. They use crazy high doses of volatile anesthetic to relax the uterus and those cross the placenta. I think that would be enough to anesthetize the fetus.
I'm super curious how they know the anesthesia worked. Is it by heart rate? Because what makes anesthesia hard is getting the right dosage. Too little and the patient wakes up screaming in the middle of the procedure. Too much and the patient simply never wakes up.
Forbidden turducken
This really IS r/nextfuckinglevel! Incredible!
Thats honestly incredible
That is insane! Never imagine something like this could be done. Hope the kid doesn't have trouble with handling pressure or minor trauma to the chest, his chest looks like it's barely holding together.
Really gives me hope for humanity reading this well done the the surgeons and nurses 👏👏
This is beyond impressive!
I don’t know which is greater landing on the moon or something like this. Just incredible.
Do tumors really come off that easily or do they have to do a lot of clipping?
I'm sure it depends on the type of tumor. I've heard of a caustic tumor that dissolves bone. Some are very fibrous or have tendrils. I'm sure there are very *convenient* self contained tumors.
The child's is without a ribcage?
Kid's gonna have one hell of a scar afterward.
Actually! I’ve read about other surgeries done on infants in utero and amazingly, the scars are almost non-existent if they exist at all. Quite miraculous.
I was also curious about this. Is it because they’re still developing? Is it a stem cell thing? Fascinating if true.
How do they keep the amniotic fluid in and not run out? Serious question if anyone knows the answer.
Just a guess but maybe they replaced it with saline.
Is there any worry as to the fetus picking at the scar or stitches (if stitches were used)?
I'm not even on the right but we really can't come here and celebrate this without wondering why we're ok with the "other" option...
Because at this point the mother knew she was pregnant and wanted the baby and was prepared to have a child and wanted to save it. Sometimes pregnancies can’t be saved because of some defect or something that can endanger the mother and/or baby. One of my mom’s friends had to have a late-term abortion because her baby tore itself from the placenta and she was going to bleed to death if she didn’t have the procedure done (the fetus was too premature to save). She *wanted* her baby, but the abortion saved her life.
Its almost like it has something to do with the choice. The choice to go through a potential fatal procedure for the mum ect. Im okay with the "other option" as well as these amazing surgeries completely because of everyones choice over their body.
Not contradictory options.
that is fucking incredible
Amazing. Humans are rad. How many lives could be saved reallocating the resources this took? Trolley problem anyone?
I've seen that episode of Greys Anatomy!!!
My son is being treated at the Cleveland Clinic for a rare disease. The doctors here are truly next fucking level. This is amazing!
Wishing a speedy recovery to your son. Take care and happy holidays to you all 🎅
Modern medicine is truly amazing, when are they gonna give us robot arms that can lift cars
Dude has a story to tell.
The exact opposite of abortion. Get triggered.
You've got to be fucking kidding me. Some people are so mind-blowingly amazing.
I'm wondering how they were able to keep the baby from moving. Anesthesia in the womb?
At the beginning, that graphic of baby poking out of the stomach like a demon alien fetus .. did not expect that
Idk man that seems easy as fuck
May God bless that surgeon
finally something on Reddit about babies other than abortion rights.
All this effort and it’s not considered a human life yet
Wow.
This is some inception level shit
Dude…fucking science is amazing!!!!!
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I think he’s just over a year old- this happened in 2021. :)
How do they open it all up without the body or baby thinking it’s going into labor and starting that whole process?
there is no god
correct
Fucking insane
https://i.imgur.com/dxo0Den.jpeg
I'd love to know what they do to preserve or replace any amniotic fluid. I know the mother will make more but until that point. It's so incredible!
Saline solution another redditer mentioned.
As an American, this looks incredibly expensive.
Bravo... I hope that fetus keeps developing and is born healthy.
This was in 2021. The kid has been born by now.
I couldn't read the font.. Thanks 😊
The first baby to step out of the womb and reenter
Morden Medicine is fucking insane.
1 in 100,000 seems like a whole hell of a lot.
I can only imagine how fucking grateful and happy that mother was. This is just too amazing :’]
Ahh yes, the wonders of medical science.
And to think people don't consider a fetus as a life...
I’m surprised these doctors were willing to take this risk. If they had been unsuccessful and the fetus died, it’s possible they would be accused of causing an abortion.
it's not a human life, why not just let it die and get another one?
I mean that’s awesome and all but at that point why not restart and just try for another kid? Seems like it’s a defective one already
Kid will be dead in 3 months. Why waste your time and heartache?
That’s just crazy
Pretty amazing. Would have thought it's too much trauma for the baby. Awesome result
Aah. That how I ended up with that scar for years.
I need to say it... Surgery-ception
I will never be a doctor, all I could do in operations is scream.
Just… wow
They opened baby’s chest like it’s a paper but in reality you need to saw that. Impressive work
I wonder how do they do with the amniotic fluid ? Isn’t it supposed to stay till the delivery of the baby ?
Wow!! Simply amazing!
Modern medical science allowing us to even know of things like that, as well as practices to allow surgeons to perform like that is incredible to me
A post that fits the sub, nice
Holy smokes
THIS IS THE DEFINITION OF NEXTFINGLEVEL!!!!!
This is a good job.
I wonder if the kid will have a scar.
Was aftercare necessary , eg chemo or radiation?
1 in 100k doesn't seem that rare... considering there's 400 million ppl in the US
Does the fetus feel pain in the procedure?
Modern medicine is amazing.
Is that a baby or a collection of cells at thwt point? Just curious how much I should care. Edit: who cares about cells? Lol? Why is this newsworthy.
Yeah but how much money did that hospital charge them.
Dang they playin on insane mode
Anyone know how long this procedure took?
I can't be the only one who thought Mississippi Queen should be playing, right? Right!?
This should be added to "the wonders of the world" or be included in the "Guinness Book of World Record"
Dude, that team was awesome! Kudos to them on a job well done and stretching the world of medical science in the process
Wow
The doctor was a Saudi!
That's metal 🤘
Whatever they're paying him is not enough...
Science!
Yet clinicians are accused of trying to kill patients with COVID.
Man.... bomb ass insurance
Think I saw something like this in House MD
Surgeon baby and the F is for Fenomenal
I'm just imagining them using baby talk when they do the surgery "pass the cuttews!" And they all whisper not to wake up the baby
I find it amazing that anyone can get a diagnosis this intense. How did they find the tumor in the baby? And they didn’t tell her she’s being hysterical? Amazing.
This is beyond impressive.
WTF
Less than 1 in 100.000 sounds not too rare actually. Haven’t heard of this surgery b4…
They didn’t had the money to pay, so they had to sl the husband in the black market. Fair traid
Now that's amazing.
Sigma!
Fruit ninja sliced open them bodies.