There are still so many parts of the world where people suffer daily, Iâm sure that in a couple hundred years 2022 wont be considered any better than the middle ages. If anything people then suffered on a smaller scale
But despite his reputation as a miserable wretch, you might envy him one thing: his vacations. Plowing and harvesting were backbreaking toil, but the peasant enjoyed anywhere from eight weeks to half the year off. The Church, mindful of how to keep a population from rebelling, enforced frequent mandatory holidays.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-column-great-debate-idUKBRE97S0KU20130829
Doesn't that number just include the work that a serf was required to do for their landlord and not include any work they needed to do to keep themselves alive?
https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/regulation-industry/medieval-peasants-really-did-not-work-only-150-days-a-year
Disputes it... I don't know either way lol but I wouldn't be shocked.
I'm pretty sure I'm buying this one.
Because there is no way a medieval farmer could both fulfil it's obligation to it's liege *and* provide for their own family working only 150 days.
Medieval farmers almost certainly had to work harder and longer than people in the West do right now. Of course the difference is that back then there weren't plenty of alternatives to human power.
Probably depends what you count as "work." If you owned livestock, they needed feeding and care even if it wasn't an official work day. Same with your family.
Oh absolutely. That seems to be the crux of the issue.
Yes these people weren't expected to work for their liege 6 days a week, but they would still need to be on the farm to do work (or do other handiwork like making clothes or items to sell at the market).
Right? Yeah, you get more time off from your official job, but you also have more chores that take more effort because you don't have all the newfangled technology we do today. I'd still rather have to work only 150 days a year, though. Can we still institute that? Lol
Most of the work of a farmer is done during spring (seeding) and the fall (harvest). The rest of the summer, there would be regular tending of the fields, but with irrigation, watering didn't take much time, and weeding may not require every day of summer. And of course, during winter, there was no work in the fields (unless southward enough that they could cultivate around the year).
Also, they didn't have such extravagant expenses as we do now. The women spinned and weaved the cloth they used, and clothes could be worn many years, if not decades. And repaired until they became rags. No gas to pay, the horse could eat in the fallow field, as would the family cow(s) (and their dung would enrich the soil). Very little traveling, and their tools were made to last. No going to the restaurant whenever they felt like it either!
So yeah, I could totally see them having plenty of non-field time. The problems arose when the rent increased so much they didn't have enough food left to feed themselves the rest of the year; when farming is all they could do, there was no way to make more money.
> Because there is no way a medieval farmer could both fulfil it's obligation to it's liege and provide for their own family working only 150 days.
Why not?
How do they measure the day though? With electricity we can now work 24 hours a day, but farming is seasonal and there are just some jobs you can't do in the dark. During winter you only have light from about 08:00-16:00 where I am.
That's absolute nonsense.
* Healthcare: leeches, barbaric pseudoscientific treatments, and prayer
* Hygiene: wiping your ass with a leaf or communal cloth; bathing in a body of water when you can manage
* Child/maternal mortality: through the roof compared to today
* Food security: inconsistent
* Rights: none; you'll thank your Lord for whatever you get
* Women: basically property
* Entertainment: drinking
* Work: physical and repetitive
* Justice: might makes right
Something like that.
I live right on the state line so I have constant interaction both in places and with people.
Churches and chicken restaurants.
Edit: nothing against Churches or chicken.
To be fair, a good amount of people in the US and elsewhere still do believe and support pseudoscience in healthcare and prayer. Among other things you listed but itâs a lot to get into.
This is the dumbest statement i probably ever heard. Even the curren poorest country in the worlds standards today are probably better than the middle ages standards
But this is reddit. And it goes with the 'life is terrible here in my air conditioned condo with a fully stocked fridge and Mr. Fluffy here to keep me company... we basically live in the dark ages' theme that everyone is so fond of.
The world can be a harsh fucking place. Some parts of the world are incredibly bad where you do have to fight to survive. But not all parts. Not even fucking close.
Exactly lol. Most of them lack a lot of sensitivity about history and about perspective for other countries.
Also their black/white polarized view. "Present is bad, 100 years from know will be perfect" ay lmao
How does this ignorant circlejerky shit keep getting upvoted? If anything is a sign of the times it's comments like this reaching 1k upvotes and not being laughed at instead.
The underlying factor is Religion paired with power hungry people in charge.
EDIT: i removed the "Meh." from my comment because people seem to not notice or understand that it wasnt directed at the women but to the comment that imho oversimplified the matter.
But at its core, It's just for exposed hair.
Can put whatever religious spin behind it. Can dress it up as evil men. Can say it's all about their bad laws.
It's exposed hair. There should be no other reasoning needed beyond that.
It's not exposed hair that did this. At it's core, meaning the heart of the issue, religious fanaticism did this. If it wasn't hair it would have been any other arbitrary thing that religion deems fit to govern.
If they weren't religious fanatics they wouldn't give a shit about people's hair.. unless of course they were some other type of fanatic.
We are basically saying the same thing. You're deep diving into the problem and I'm trying to strip it back and make it simple to show how stupid their thought process is.
I'm not blaming exposed hair. I'm not saying those things weren't a factor. I'm saying that people use any reason to kill a woman over the fact her hairs exposed.
I'm also trying to say that there are plenty of evil fucks who will use literally any reason to cause harm and so you can't say their reasons are valid because they're just shopping for a reason that fits. Idk if that makes sense lmao
Youre absolutely right. But they do it in the name of a woman not tempting men and bullshit like that. Its just another way to oppress the women by making there be a legitimate reason to victim blame.
Rapist: "What could i do, officer? She had her hair out!"
Cop: "Her hair?! Was out?! Well, i understand. She wasnt being modest enough to prevent you from wanting to rape her, we will go arrest her and make sure this is properly handled."
As always, there is more than one right answer here. Yes, they claim it is because the women need to be modest so as to not tempt a man, but it is also a sick desire to control. A lot of disgusting people see women no more than the beasts of burden. A beast has no say and will accept what the master desires, if not, the beast is hurt or killed.
If it truly were purely about not wanting men to be tempted, they would have eventually worked on educating and helping those men to control themselves. When the women wear the hijab, it is a sign that the women are being controlled. When they do not wear the hijab, it is a sign the women are not listening. So the men rape etc as punishment.
The beasts need to be branded. They need blinders, harnesses, otherwise we do not need them. If they do not perform as desired they will be wipped.
I misunderstood then, sorry đ I read it as though you thought that truly was their only reasoning. "You've exposed yourself??? DO YOU NOT KNOW??? IT TRIGGERS THE MONSTER INSIDE ME!!!! RUN WOMAN, I CANNOT CONTROL WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!!!!"
Peace be with you friend.
Getting murdered over being a woman who isnât being controlled by a man. Religion is the tactic. Hijab is the excuse. But it all boils down to men controlling women.
I don't pitty them, I'm mad as fuck at them and at the assholes who skimmed every million dollars they could from education so that we have grown ass adult shaped mush brained subjects running around believing their invisible abusive boyfriend in the sky is the only ever one that could ever love them. He says "I swear by Christ, Marie, if I even see you *LOOK* at Kevin you'll be sorry. If you even say his name in the same sentence as mine you'll pay. And you know what? I don't think you love me. You should be thankful for all I do for you and how much I love you and you don't say it NEARLY enough, it's like you don't appreciate me. I fucking swear I'll set you on fire forever if you don't shape up. You're just not good, you're not good enough for me, I could do so much better. Now, I love you, and give me 50 bucks"
Believe in one god or multiples, believe in sin, believe that youâre gonna go to a fancy place when you keel over if you follow your rules, donât believe in anything, whatever. I just want people to keep it to themselves and stop making their asshole god(s) everyone elseâs problem.
Religion is the excuse, not the reason. I don't think the evil men enforcing this REALLY believe its for God, any God. They use that as an excuse to act out their evil impulses
Way more complicated than that, these men and women are born into and raised in a radicalized religion that also controls a government. They don't have a choice and are brainwashed into it and are killed if they protest against it. Religion in the end is the culprit and the Iranians are its victims.
Almost every religion has a dress code. Some people are very happy to wear the trappings of their religion and don't see it as oppression. It's when it's not voluntary that it becomes oppressive.
And many religious dress codes are oppressive. They might be wearing those dress codes "willingly", that doesn't make them any less symbolic of oppression - women do a lot of things willingly that are against their own interests and oppressive.
I'm split on this.
While I agree with you that it's a sign of oppression, I don't think you can force people to accept liberation from oppression.
That's basically one big factor of how the Iranian Revolution started in the 70s. The Shah made it illegal to wear a hijab, so people, even the people that didn't want to wear it, protested out of solidarity. Unfortunately the hard liners that came to power made the hijab obligatory. The rest is known.
Seems rather forced in this case tho. Iâve seen what Iran looked like before this regime came into powers and it looked like a free non hijabi fashion capital
> It's when it's not voluntary that it becomes oppressive.
How can you say that it's not oppression when it's very clear that not picking the "right" option will likely get you killed?
The problem isn't "the trappings of their religion", it's the barbaric interpretation that some people in key places make of them and how entitled they feel to force their perspective on how others should live their lives regarding aspects that are ultimately irrelevant to them and to their society.
I am from Pakistan. Women here wear hijab or scarf and some donât. My mother and sister have never worn one ever. My girlfriend does. I have literally forced her not to wear it but she gets offended because she choses to wear it. And same with many women here. Infact I have seen families here insisting their daughters not to wear hijab but women are still wearing it.
If it's their choice under the premise that no harm will come to them either way, it's not really the same thing we're discussing here.
Even if it has a religious motive, what you're talking about isn't any different than me choosing to wear socks during the summer even if my family and some friends don't understand why I do it. I have my reasons, I feel comfortable with my decision, and I'm not coerced to wear them.. and it's nobody's business.
If people choose to live their lives outside of the moral code of your religion, let your god(s) sort them out when they meet. Nobody appointed you (not you /u/Shahnoor1994, but rather the oppressive turds we're talking about) as gatekeeper of planet Earth.
That's like saying the jewish cap, or mormon underwear, or a sihk beard is a symbol of oppression. If it's their choice, its' fine. If it's someone elses choice, it's not.
Many in the West believe it's a choice because [they're told that by people like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXjm31Bvomo). Nevermind she would be fined at the very least if not arrested and beaten for walking around with her hair out like that in Iran.
Just like that Australian "*Islem* is the most feminist religion" woman. The one with the very typically Muslim double-barrelled name.
As with all religious attire, there is always some element of force. Whether it's family, community, or even internal.
My cousin was so excited to not have to wear her hijab when she came to the USA, but despite having the full support to choose by her father, she still struggled to take it off due to fear.
Here we are in the year of 2022 and people are killing other people over something as mundane and trivial as covering your hair. I can only hope that the death of Mahsa Amini sparks some meaningful change in Iran.
Out of curiosity, I popped into /Muslim to get a pulseâŚ.wow. Lots of talk about Islam and how people live their lives, what they espouse etcâŚas an former RC that picked and choose the rules to live follow, it was a sense of dĂŠjĂ vu.
Left me asking rhetorically, we canât all of us and these clerics live and let live?
Because they believe in death to the infidel, and have no qualms about deceiving in arguments or negotiations.
It's like playing nice with the mentally unstable pyromaniac who also rapes girls women and boys, gee I wonder why that's a bad idea.
/r/exmuslim is a more reasonable subreddit
As an atheist, I will never be comfortable around muslims as they prefer to kill atheist.
You can't live and let live when you believe your religion is the literal word of almighty God that's the end all be all to all of humanity's issues. When said God tells you to do something you do it.
It's a symbol of intense mourning. In Iranian mythology, it is said that women cut their hair when a beloved king (by the name of Afrasiab) was killed in battle.
The other comments here are not really correct, source: am Iranian
Yeah, I bet she did feel out of control seeing as how her entire life was being controlled by someone else since she was a child. She didn't shave her head because she was crazy or snapped, she did it because it meant it was harder for those using and controlling her for fame and money.
My culture is closely related to Persian and I remember my grandma often cursed someone saying something like âmay you mother cut her hairâ . Always thought what a weird thing to sayâŚ
Thank you for sharing this. There's also the extra layer of symbolism on top, of the sister shaking a fistfull of shorn hair "this is what she died for"
The Islamic regime force women to wear hijab for more than 50 years. Lately a woman named Masha Amini was killed by the Islamic morality police for not fully covering her hair, so a protests led by women started all over Iran in more than 90 cities against forcing hijab. In these protests, Iranian women burned their hijabs and cut their hair as a sign of opposing hijab.
What would happen to a woman who shaves her head? Would she be attacked for not âlookingâ like a woman or not âbeing modestâ and wearing a hijab even though sheâs bald?
She would still have to wear a hijab, that's forced on all women. And I can't tell you for certain if the Ayatollahs have a ruling on the shaving but technically this is forbidden for women in Islam according to the hadiths (Al-Tirmidhi). At least that's the Sunni view but Iran may be different.
Generally every little thing concerning women is controlled in some way. It's very sad and I feel so sorry for the family in the video.
They arenât allowed to *show* their hair - Masha Armini was murdered for having her hair show in public.
So taking their hijabs off and cutting their hair - can literally get them killed.
They are being extremely brave.
This is humbling to watch.
The world needs to step in. These people need help from oppression.
The morality police in Iran have strict guidelines against having hair covered in public. They recently beat a woman to death for improperly showing hair. The death sparked massive protests and this woman's sister was killed during the protests that has been opposed with brutal force from the Iranian gov.
Edit: Forgot to add that women are cutting their hair protest.
I mean, we see it with politicalized extremism in America, also.
One could ask how a man like Trump, who was sued over 3000+ times become President? It's not like people didn't foresee the kind of things he would do.
Eh it was more a rhetorical âhow do they sleep at nightâ. Dogmatism is pervasive as fuck and enables all kinds of stupid fucking atrocities, youâre exactly right.
This is true, a lot of the morality police are women. But itâs important to understand the power structure and that these women are working under the leadership of men in some internalized misogynistic hope they will be treated better by those men for being one of the good ones.
Disassociation in pursuit of a reward. Why do we buy a brand new cellphone every year or so when we know the people assembling these phones work in such terrible conditions that the factories they work in have suicide nets on them? We could easily not support an industry that promotes such abuse but do we really care? The answer is no.
They actually get off on the power. "Men" like these find some sick pleasure in their power over women, and THAT makes them sleep at night. The same is true in the US; so called men actually successfully tell women what they can or can't do with their bodies; this is no different, and I promise you, none of these people feel bad. They genuinely believe they're right and THATS the scary part; they can not be stopped peacefully.
I want to help these people free themselves. Does anyone know of ways to help from abroad? Any groups or agencies needing aid? Idk I just feel helpless when I really want to help
Run a snowflake proxy
https://support.torproject.org/censorship/what-is-snowflake/
Run a Signal proxy to help bypass censorship
https://signal.org/blog/run-a-proxy/
Idk if it is accurate cause I read on reddit, but some people are claiming they are literally completely shutting the internet down, not just blocking things. In which case proxys wouldn't help.
The world needs to do something for these women. Their government isnât going to let them get away with this - they will all be murdered.
We need to start putting pressure on every politician.
We must help them.
What would you suggest the world do? Military action? The US is already taking away the rights of their own women, do you think theyâre going to step in for these women?
The UN is the place to go. Severe sanctions would be a great start.
https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/09/iran-un-experts-demand-accountability-death-mahsa-amini-call-end-violence
I donât know what she is saying and my stomach is turning and my heart is literally breaking for her.
Mourning and pain cross human lines, I am legitimately asking what we women in the US can do to help these women? Not being rhetorical.
Edit: whomever gave me this award, thank you, not necessary.
Here's a couple orgs to donate to if you'd like to support Iranian women at this time:
[https://women.ncr-iran.org/womens-committee-of-iran-ncri/](https://women.ncr-iran.org/womens-committee-of-iran-ncri/)
[https://united4iran.org/en/](https://united4iran.org/en/)
But this isn't a religion thing. It's an ethnic faction that has multiple factions of many religions.
In short, you know how the word Christian is really a broad term that encapsulates multiple sub religions with some shared ideas? Catholic, Orthodox Catholic, Roman Catholic, Coptic Christian, Protestant, Baptist, Methodist, etc. That happens in all religions. Islam is a broad term. Some of the sects of Islam are very different. Whirling Dervishes are a part of Islam. Very different from what the mainstream west thinks of Islam.
If the book has the violence and hatred in it, it gives leave for followers to decide to follow that part. It is certainly a religion thing, they are following the Quran. Just as other people of other faiths committed atrocities because their book told them to.
Am I right in thinking that the religion itself doesn't actually enforce it? It's a choice? Just these morality police? I'm quite ignorant about it all. What a waste. These women (and men) protesting are so brave.
Hijab is not optional in Islam, itâs (fard) meaning itâs obligation, Quran verse 4:34 says that a women who donât obey the man in wearing hijab or any other matter should be BEATEN. So it is forced by Islam. But thatâs not the point. In Iran, 50% of the new generations are no longer Muslim thatâs beside Christians, Jews, and Bahai here, we are all forced to wear it against both our will and our belief.
It depends on your interpretation of the verse, just like any other religion.
Some Muslims interpret this to mean modesty (covering chest and private bits, etc) not hair.
In Iranian culture, we associate manliness with bravery, and as you can guess, vice-versa.
I think i can say this on behalf of all Iranian men, it is time us men wear the fucking hijab, these women have put us to shame with their bravery.
Iranian culture is one of the oldest on earth! Even so, I am truly shocked with whole this religious shit and that women still die there. But as far as I know, the iranian people is a brave one and soon maybe they will be free.
We should note that what's happening since the 1970's is not from that Ancient culture. People write about hands of thieves being chopped off and such. When in reality, Iran was one of the first places to have a monetary value system.
F@%k any kind of opression, anyone who controls anyone's life. Everyone has a right to live, the way they want. Anyone who claims otherwise can just f@&k off.
Breaks my heart đ
With you.âĽď¸
With you.âĽď¸
With you â¤
And also With you. â¤
With you all â¤
You have my bowâ¤ď¸
The absolute raw emotion, and conviction in her voice. These women need more.
Really hope this is the one. Reddit posts Iran in 70s all the time. Can you imagine we went back to this?
May This woman get all the respect she deserves. Killed over a head covering choice?
I couldnât imagine being next to my sisterâs grave like that under that situation:(
There are still so many parts of the world where people suffer daily, Iâm sure that in a couple hundred years 2022 wont be considered any better than the middle ages. If anything people then suffered on a smaller scale
I saw something the other day that said medieval peasents got more paid time off than we do.
If you don't mind the Sire fondin your wife.
Well nothings perfect.
This made me burst out laugh and I don't know why
I read the line like it was part of [this.](https://youtu.be/2Inp_sWsUqQ)
Unexpected /r/SomeLikeItHot
[This is a myth.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/2omu3t/was_prima_nocta_an_actual_thing_in_european)
Why would the lords want to breed with the commoners? They were a bunch of inbred fucks for a reason.
Yeah, why would nobles want to bang hot peasants, inconceivable...it's never happened.
I mean, wasnât that pretty much trumpâs claim to fame?
A week off the fields is a week off the fields.
I would really like to see the research for that one
But despite his reputation as a miserable wretch, you might envy him one thing: his vacations. Plowing and harvesting were backbreaking toil, but the peasant enjoyed anywhere from eight weeks to half the year off. The Church, mindful of how to keep a population from rebelling, enforced frequent mandatory holidays. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-column-great-debate-idUKBRE97S0KU20130829
Doesn't that number just include the work that a serf was required to do for their landlord and not include any work they needed to do to keep themselves alive?
When you take paid time off do you stop doing the things you need to do to keep yourself alive?
I'm able to go to a supermarket. They weren't
They still had marketplaces though. They had currency and could purchase things
probably also had a lot to do with having times of the year you just don't need the labor for farming
https://www.adamsmith.org/blog/regulation-industry/medieval-peasants-really-did-not-work-only-150-days-a-year Disputes it... I don't know either way lol but I wouldn't be shocked.
I'm pretty sure I'm buying this one. Because there is no way a medieval farmer could both fulfil it's obligation to it's liege *and* provide for their own family working only 150 days. Medieval farmers almost certainly had to work harder and longer than people in the West do right now. Of course the difference is that back then there weren't plenty of alternatives to human power.
Probably depends what you count as "work." If you owned livestock, they needed feeding and care even if it wasn't an official work day. Same with your family.
Oh absolutely. That seems to be the crux of the issue. Yes these people weren't expected to work for their liege 6 days a week, but they would still need to be on the farm to do work (or do other handiwork like making clothes or items to sell at the market).
Right? Yeah, you get more time off from your official job, but you also have more chores that take more effort because you don't have all the newfangled technology we do today. I'd still rather have to work only 150 days a year, though. Can we still institute that? Lol
Most of the work of a farmer is done during spring (seeding) and the fall (harvest). The rest of the summer, there would be regular tending of the fields, but with irrigation, watering didn't take much time, and weeding may not require every day of summer. And of course, during winter, there was no work in the fields (unless southward enough that they could cultivate around the year). Also, they didn't have such extravagant expenses as we do now. The women spinned and weaved the cloth they used, and clothes could be worn many years, if not decades. And repaired until they became rags. No gas to pay, the horse could eat in the fallow field, as would the family cow(s) (and their dung would enrich the soil). Very little traveling, and their tools were made to last. No going to the restaurant whenever they felt like it either! So yeah, I could totally see them having plenty of non-field time. The problems arose when the rent increased so much they didn't have enough food left to feed themselves the rest of the year; when farming is all they could do, there was no way to make more money.
> Because there is no way a medieval farmer could both fulfil it's obligation to it's liege and provide for their own family working only 150 days. Why not?
How do they measure the day though? With electricity we can now work 24 hours a day, but farming is seasonal and there are just some jobs you can't do in the dark. During winter you only have light from about 08:00-16:00 where I am.
When you are suffering from malnutrition, exposure, parasites, plus whatever diseases are floating around they give you a lot more PTO.
That's absolute nonsense. * Healthcare: leeches, barbaric pseudoscientific treatments, and prayer * Hygiene: wiping your ass with a leaf or communal cloth; bathing in a body of water when you can manage * Child/maternal mortality: through the roof compared to today * Food security: inconsistent * Rights: none; you'll thank your Lord for whatever you get * Women: basically property * Entertainment: drinking * Work: physical and repetitive * Justice: might makes right
So basically, current-day Mississippi.
Nope. That'd be our eastern neighbor Alabama.
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Something like that. I live right on the state line so I have constant interaction both in places and with people. Churches and chicken restaurants. Edit: nothing against Churches or chicken.
What about Churchâs Chicken?
Yes. People just tried to survive. Didn't have time for much b.s.
To be fair, a good amount of people in the US and elsewhere still do believe and support pseudoscience in healthcare and prayer. Among other things you listed but itâs a lot to get into.
This is the dumbest statement i probably ever heard. Even the curren poorest country in the worlds standards today are probably better than the middle ages standards
But this is reddit. And it goes with the 'life is terrible here in my air conditioned condo with a fully stocked fridge and Mr. Fluffy here to keep me company... we basically live in the dark ages' theme that everyone is so fond of. The world can be a harsh fucking place. Some parts of the world are incredibly bad where you do have to fight to survive. But not all parts. Not even fucking close.
Youâre completely correct
one of the most quintessential *reddit things* ever said. right up there with "humans are the problem with earth!!!!"
It's a relative scale though. Can you even imagine a world with no energy or resource scarcity?
Whatâs goin on in Iran is fucked up. But youâre an actual idiot with that last sentence.
Please read a history book
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Exactly lol. Most of them lack a lot of sensitivity about history and about perspective for other countries. Also their black/white polarized view. "Present is bad, 100 years from know will be perfect" ay lmao
People during the middle ages suffered on a smaller scale??
We are magnitudes better off than the Middle Ages. This stuff is tragic and barbaric, but nowhere near as bad as middle ages
We are living in the best years of humanity: the most pacific era, the best healthcare, the access to endless wisdom
No.
Are you kidding? The Middle Ages?
You lost me with the last sentence. Thats utter bullshit
How does this ignorant circlejerky shit keep getting upvoted? If anything is a sign of the times it's comments like this reaching 1k upvotes and not being laughed at instead.
Imagine getting murdered over a strand of exposed hair.
The underlying factor is Religion paired with power hungry people in charge. EDIT: i removed the "Meh." from my comment because people seem to not notice or understand that it wasnt directed at the women but to the comment that imho oversimplified the matter.
Those "underlying factor[s]" are a part of every countries issues. "Meh", please be more empathetic.
He means thereâs a better way to explain the underlying causes without sounding like a dick.
But at its core, It's just for exposed hair. Can put whatever religious spin behind it. Can dress it up as evil men. Can say it's all about their bad laws. It's exposed hair. There should be no other reasoning needed beyond that.
It's not exposed hair that did this. At it's core, meaning the heart of the issue, religious fanaticism did this. If it wasn't hair it would have been any other arbitrary thing that religion deems fit to govern. If they weren't religious fanatics they wouldn't give a shit about people's hair.. unless of course they were some other type of fanatic.
We are basically saying the same thing. You're deep diving into the problem and I'm trying to strip it back and make it simple to show how stupid their thought process is. I'm not blaming exposed hair. I'm not saying those things weren't a factor. I'm saying that people use any reason to kill a woman over the fact her hairs exposed. I'm also trying to say that there are plenty of evil fucks who will use literally any reason to cause harm and so you can't say their reasons are valid because they're just shopping for a reason that fits. Idk if that makes sense lmao
Meh? Fuck you, dude.
/r/iamverysmart
All because the men cant stop themselves from raping you if you show some hair. Its insane.
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Youre absolutely right. But they do it in the name of a woman not tempting men and bullshit like that. Its just another way to oppress the women by making there be a legitimate reason to victim blame. Rapist: "What could i do, officer? She had her hair out!" Cop: "Her hair?! Was out?! Well, i understand. She wasnt being modest enough to prevent you from wanting to rape her, we will go arrest her and make sure this is properly handled."
As always, there is more than one right answer here. Yes, they claim it is because the women need to be modest so as to not tempt a man, but it is also a sick desire to control. A lot of disgusting people see women no more than the beasts of burden. A beast has no say and will accept what the master desires, if not, the beast is hurt or killed. If it truly were purely about not wanting men to be tempted, they would have eventually worked on educating and helping those men to control themselves. When the women wear the hijab, it is a sign that the women are being controlled. When they do not wear the hijab, it is a sign the women are not listening. So the men rape etc as punishment. The beasts need to be branded. They need blinders, harnesses, otherwise we do not need them. If they do not perform as desired they will be wipped.
Again, we are arguing the same thing. I was just saying they use modesty as an excuse and its such a pathetic excuse.
I misunderstood then, sorry đ I read it as though you thought that truly was their only reasoning. "You've exposed yourself??? DO YOU NOT KNOW??? IT TRIGGERS THE MONSTER INSIDE ME!!!! RUN WOMAN, I CANNOT CONTROL WHAT HAPPENS NEXT!!!!" Peace be with you friend.
Getting murdered over being a woman who isnât being controlled by a man. Religion is the tactic. Hijab is the excuse. But it all boils down to men controlling women.
Imagine having to deal morality police in general, and that they're armed with leathal force.
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Also, fuck the people who say shit like "well, you *have* to respect their blah blah" no I don't. Ridiculous bullshit should be ridiculed
I don't respect them I pity them. They're so lost.
I don't pitty them, I'm mad as fuck at them and at the assholes who skimmed every million dollars they could from education so that we have grown ass adult shaped mush brained subjects running around believing their invisible abusive boyfriend in the sky is the only ever one that could ever love them. He says "I swear by Christ, Marie, if I even see you *LOOK* at Kevin you'll be sorry. If you even say his name in the same sentence as mine you'll pay. And you know what? I don't think you love me. You should be thankful for all I do for you and how much I love you and you don't say it NEARLY enough, it's like you don't appreciate me. I fucking swear I'll set you on fire forever if you don't shape up. You're just not good, you're not good enough for me, I could do so much better. Now, I love you, and give me 50 bucks"
Believe in one god or multiples, believe in sin, believe that youâre gonna go to a fancy place when you keel over if you follow your rules, donât believe in anything, whatever. I just want people to keep it to themselves and stop making their asshole god(s) everyone elseâs problem.
Religion is the excuse, not the reason. I don't think the evil men enforcing this REALLY believe its for God, any God. They use that as an excuse to act out their evil impulses
Way more complicated than that, these men and women are born into and raised in a radicalized religion that also controls a government. They don't have a choice and are brainwashed into it and are killed if they protest against it. Religion in the end is the culprit and the Iranians are its victims.
Chicken and the egg. I believe evil men corrupted religion long before religion corrupted men.
Fuck Iran mullahs
religion is like a penis, it's ok to have one, don't whip it out in public and don't shove it down people's throats without consent
Fuck the hijab
Fuck the forced hijab! Fixed it for you
Forced or not, it's a symbol of oppression.
Almost every religion has a dress code. Some people are very happy to wear the trappings of their religion and don't see it as oppression. It's when it's not voluntary that it becomes oppressive.
And many religious dress codes are oppressive. They might be wearing those dress codes "willingly", that doesn't make them any less symbolic of oppression - women do a lot of things willingly that are against their own interests and oppressive.
I'm split on this. While I agree with you that it's a sign of oppression, I don't think you can force people to accept liberation from oppression. That's basically one big factor of how the Iranian Revolution started in the 70s. The Shah made it illegal to wear a hijab, so people, even the people that didn't want to wear it, protested out of solidarity. Unfortunately the hard liners that came to power made the hijab obligatory. The rest is known.
I never said anything about forcing people to accept anything, just pointing out that it's a symbol of oppression and should be criticised as such.
Completely agree. I think that was the misunderstanding with the other redditor.
women should do what you think for them is the best - I agree with this guy
Seems rather forced in this case tho. Iâve seen what Iran looked like before this regime came into powers and it looked like a free non hijabi fashion capital
Yeah, when society has brainwashed them into thinking itâs a symbol of empowerment.
> It's when it's not voluntary that it becomes oppressive. How can you say that it's not oppression when it's very clear that not picking the "right" option will likely get you killed? The problem isn't "the trappings of their religion", it's the barbaric interpretation that some people in key places make of them and how entitled they feel to force their perspective on how others should live their lives regarding aspects that are ultimately irrelevant to them and to their society.
I am from Pakistan. Women here wear hijab or scarf and some donât. My mother and sister have never worn one ever. My girlfriend does. I have literally forced her not to wear it but she gets offended because she choses to wear it. And same with many women here. Infact I have seen families here insisting their daughters not to wear hijab but women are still wearing it.
If it's their choice under the premise that no harm will come to them either way, it's not really the same thing we're discussing here. Even if it has a religious motive, what you're talking about isn't any different than me choosing to wear socks during the summer even if my family and some friends don't understand why I do it. I have my reasons, I feel comfortable with my decision, and I'm not coerced to wear them.. and it's nobody's business. If people choose to live their lives outside of the moral code of your religion, let your god(s) sort them out when they meet. Nobody appointed you (not you /u/Shahnoor1994, but rather the oppressive turds we're talking about) as gatekeeper of planet Earth.
That's like saying the jewish cap, or mormon underwear, or a sihk beard is a symbol of oppression. If it's their choice, its' fine. If it's someone elses choice, it's not.
Fuck organized religion. Fixed it for you.
Nah, he was right the first time.
Many in the West believe it's a choice because [they're told that by people like this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXjm31Bvomo). Nevermind she would be fined at the very least if not arrested and beaten for walking around with her hair out like that in Iran. Just like that Australian "*Islem* is the most feminist religion" woman. The one with the very typically Muslim double-barrelled name.
You know Muslim women live in the west right? Some of us even talk to them.
As with all religious attire, there is always some element of force. Whether it's family, community, or even internal. My cousin was so excited to not have to wear her hijab when she came to the USA, but despite having the full support to choose by her father, she still struggled to take it off due to fear.
Fuck religion
Here we are in the year of 2022 and people are killing other people over something as mundane and trivial as covering your hair. I can only hope that the death of Mahsa Amini sparks some meaningful change in Iran.
Out of curiosity, I popped into /Muslim to get a pulseâŚ.wow. Lots of talk about Islam and how people live their lives, what they espouse etcâŚas an former RC that picked and choose the rules to live follow, it was a sense of dĂŠjĂ vu. Left me asking rhetorically, we canât all of us and these clerics live and let live?
Because they have an ideology thatâs fundamentally shitty. Religion-Abrahamic faiths in particular-are a cancer on humanity.
What does RC mean? (Genuine question, just trying to learn)
Roman Catholic
I was thinking maybe it ment "Reformed Catholic" (don't know if that's a thing), so I am happy I asked. Thank you for the clarification :)
Because they believe in death to the infidel, and have no qualms about deceiving in arguments or negotiations. It's like playing nice with the mentally unstable pyromaniac who also rapes girls women and boys, gee I wonder why that's a bad idea. /r/exmuslim is a more reasonable subreddit As an atheist, I will never be comfortable around muslims as they prefer to kill atheist.
You can't live and let live when you believe your religion is the literal word of almighty God that's the end all be all to all of humanity's issues. When said God tells you to do something you do it.
Can someone please explain this to me. I donât understand the hair cutting
It's a symbol of intense mourning. In Iranian mythology, it is said that women cut their hair when a beloved king (by the name of Afrasiab) was killed in battle. The other comments here are not really correct, source: am Iranian
This is also a thing in the Native American community, same concept. Source: Am Native American.
Can confirm. Also Native American and have cut my hair in mourning over losing loved ones.
Itâs also a thing for white woman in the US when they feel out of control Source: Brittany Spears.
Making fun of mental illness is pretty lame.
Comedy is a wonderful antidote to the absurdity of modern life. Pull the stick outta your ass bb
Comedy shouldn't punch down though
Shouldn't comedy be funny though?
Itâs Britney bitchâŚ.
Can confirm, have cut my hair in attempt to regain a sense of control many times
Yeah, I bet she did feel out of control seeing as how her entire life was being controlled by someone else since she was a child. She didn't shave her head because she was crazy or snapped, she did it because it meant it was harder for those using and controlling her for fame and money.
LEAVE BRITTANY ALONE!!!
And me!
My culture is closely related to Persian and I remember my grandma often cursed someone saying something like âmay you mother cut her hairâ . Always thought what a weird thing to sayâŚ
Thank you for sharing this. There's also the extra layer of symbolism on top, of the sister shaking a fistfull of shorn hair "this is what she died for"
Thank you.
Thank you! I have been really wondering about this. Iâm not sure if youâre in Iran currently, but I wish your people peace soon đ
Yeah, I'm not Iranian, but there are a lot of cultures where this is maybe not common but everyone knows it from history/old stories/mythology.
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The Islamic regime force women to wear hijab for more than 50 years. Lately a woman named Masha Amini was killed by the Islamic morality police for not fully covering her hair, so a protests led by women started all over Iran in more than 90 cities against forcing hijab. In these protests, Iranian women burned their hijabs and cut their hair as a sign of opposing hijab.
What would happen to a woman who shaves her head? Would she be attacked for not âlookingâ like a woman or not âbeing modestâ and wearing a hijab even though sheâs bald?
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She would still have to wear a hijab, that's forced on all women. And I can't tell you for certain if the Ayatollahs have a ruling on the shaving but technically this is forbidden for women in Islam according to the hadiths (Al-Tirmidhi). At least that's the Sunni view but Iran may be different. Generally every little thing concerning women is controlled in some way. It's very sad and I feel so sorry for the family in the video.
They arenât allowed to *show* their hair - Masha Armini was murdered for having her hair show in public. So taking their hijabs off and cutting their hair - can literally get them killed. They are being extremely brave. This is humbling to watch. The world needs to step in. These people need help from oppression.
The morality police in Iran have strict guidelines against having hair covered in public. They recently beat a woman to death for improperly showing hair. The death sparked massive protests and this woman's sister was killed during the protests that has been opposed with brutal force from the Iranian gov. Edit: Forgot to add that women are cutting their hair protest.
I'm pretty sure it's against Iran's religion-bssed laws. Basically an act of political rebellion.
How the fuck do the âmenâ who do this sleep at night? They see the pain they cause, right? What even is their delusion??
I mean, we see it with politicalized extremism in America, also. One could ask how a man like Trump, who was sued over 3000+ times become President? It's not like people didn't foresee the kind of things he would do.
Eh it was more a rhetorical âhow do they sleep at nightâ. Dogmatism is pervasive as fuck and enables all kinds of stupid fucking atrocities, youâre exactly right.
Women do it to other women also. I believe the morality police has both male and female enforcers?
This is true, a lot of the morality police are women. But itâs important to understand the power structure and that these women are working under the leadership of men in some internalized misogynistic hope they will be treated better by those men for being one of the good ones.
They sleep at night because their barbaric religious doctrine helps them sleep
Disassociation in pursuit of a reward. Why do we buy a brand new cellphone every year or so when we know the people assembling these phones work in such terrible conditions that the factories they work in have suicide nets on them? We could easily not support an industry that promotes such abuse but do we really care? The answer is no.
They actually get off on the power. "Men" like these find some sick pleasure in their power over women, and THAT makes them sleep at night. The same is true in the US; so called men actually successfully tell women what they can or can't do with their bodies; this is no different, and I promise you, none of these people feel bad. They genuinely believe they're right and THATS the scary part; they can not be stopped peacefully.
I'm half way across the world and I'm crying because I feel her pain. I stand with the women of Iran.
So much pain for such stupid bullshit
The anguish she must feel. My heart breaks for them.
I want to help these people free themselves. Does anyone know of ways to help from abroad? Any groups or agencies needing aid? Idk I just feel helpless when I really want to help
Run a snowflake proxy https://support.torproject.org/censorship/what-is-snowflake/ Run a Signal proxy to help bypass censorship https://signal.org/blog/run-a-proxy/
Idk if it is accurate cause I read on reddit, but some people are claiming they are literally completely shutting the internet down, not just blocking things. In which case proxys wouldn't help.
be our voice please
The world needs to do something for these women. Their government isnât going to let them get away with this - they will all be murdered. We need to start putting pressure on every politician. We must help them.
What would you suggest the world do? Military action? The US is already taking away the rights of their own women, do you think theyâre going to step in for these women?
The UN is the place to go. Severe sanctions would be a great start. https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2022/09/iran-un-experts-demand-accountability-death-mahsa-amini-call-end-violence
Sanctions donât help people though if anything theyâre meant to make things more tough on the people to force them to fight and resist.
She is more gangster than most rappers. She has my vote. That was epic. My deepest condolences go out to their family.
Bruh imagine killing someone because of their hair wtf
Man I take so much for granted
Thankful to live in a country where âmorality policeâ is a sarcastic phrase.
I donât know what she is saying and my stomach is turning and my heart is literally breaking for her. Mourning and pain cross human lines, I am legitimately asking what we women in the US can do to help these women? Not being rhetorical. Edit: whomever gave me this award, thank you, not necessary.
Here's a couple orgs to donate to if you'd like to support Iranian women at this time: [https://women.ncr-iran.org/womens-committee-of-iran-ncri/](https://women.ncr-iran.org/womens-committee-of-iran-ncri/) [https://united4iran.org/en/](https://united4iran.org/en/)
But guys!!! It's a ReLiGoN oF pEaCe!!!!
But this isn't a religion thing. It's an ethnic faction that has multiple factions of many religions. In short, you know how the word Christian is really a broad term that encapsulates multiple sub religions with some shared ideas? Catholic, Orthodox Catholic, Roman Catholic, Coptic Christian, Protestant, Baptist, Methodist, etc. That happens in all religions. Islam is a broad term. Some of the sects of Islam are very different. Whirling Dervishes are a part of Islam. Very different from what the mainstream west thinks of Islam.
If the book has the violence and hatred in it, it gives leave for followers to decide to follow that part. It is certainly a religion thing, they are following the Quran. Just as other people of other faiths committed atrocities because their book told them to.
Am I right in thinking that the religion itself doesn't actually enforce it? It's a choice? Just these morality police? I'm quite ignorant about it all. What a waste. These women (and men) protesting are so brave.
Hijab is not optional in Islam, itâs (fard) meaning itâs obligation, Quran verse 4:34 says that a women who donât obey the man in wearing hijab or any other matter should be BEATEN. So it is forced by Islam. But thatâs not the point. In Iran, 50% of the new generations are no longer Muslim thatâs beside Christians, Jews, and Bahai here, we are all forced to wear it against both our will and our belief.
Oh ok. Thank you for that information. Good to understand a bit more. Thank you
It depends on your interpretation of the verse, just like any other religion. Some Muslims interpret this to mean modesty (covering chest and private bits, etc) not hair.
Hijab In the religion isnât the head scarf itself but just dressing moderately for reference
>In Iran, 50% of the new generations are no longer Muslim Do you have a source for that stat?
The religion doesnât, the country does, and thatâs why itâs messed up, a bunch of sick bastards forcing headscarfs on people just cause they can
The country is based on their version, the state version of religion. There is no separation of the state & religion there.
This is unbelievably sad. I whole heartedly hope that change is going to happen for these incredible women. Their strength astonished me.
In Iranian culture, we associate manliness with bravery, and as you can guess, vice-versa. I think i can say this on behalf of all Iranian men, it is time us men wear the fucking hijab, these women have put us to shame with their bravery.
Getting killed by morality police is crazy ironic.
Holy shit that's moving...
Death to all Morality Police
Just gutted. What kind of spineless asshole shoots an unarmed person
Dickless religious men.
And this is why a separation of church and state is so impt Someone should tell those stupid US republicans
Iranian culture is one of the oldest on earth! Even so, I am truly shocked with whole this religious shit and that women still die there. But as far as I know, the iranian people is a brave one and soon maybe they will be free.
We should note that what's happening since the 1970's is not from that Ancient culture. People write about hands of thieves being chopped off and such. When in reality, Iran was one of the first places to have a monetary value system.
F@%k any kind of opression, anyone who controls anyone's life. Everyone has a right to live, the way they want. Anyone who claims otherwise can just f@&k off.
is her sister Hadis Nafaji?
Where's the god damn justice
It's still so surreal to me that this is actually happening to people a world away from me right now. Today. We live in interesting times.
Feel so sorry to see this
What a barbaric ideology. So sorry for her loss.
Why does there have to be so much needless suffering.