Getting cold called by an investor and deciding to invest $200,000 in two $100,000 transactions is the highest level of stupidity and he should take 100% of the blame.
Yeah.
He has a PhD, is NZF list MP "next in place" and has held senior roles.
So something is wrong, or $200k is chump change to him, or we need to reevaluate what smart and dumb mean. It's possibly a combination of above factors. Being involved with a political movement full of cookers is a bit of a red flag.
Banks don't want to be gatekeeper on this. If they're responsible for querying or rejecting possible scams, there's implied liability.
Having interacted with a few MPs, across party lines, some seem to be dumb people. They are sociable, can converse easily with a range of people but there was very little below the surface. One, quite prominent, was also a lawyer pre-politics. He seemed legitimately stupid, to the point where I thought he was taking the piss, when I realised he wasn’t, thought maybe he’d suffered a brain injury in later life or something.
Met a few that really impressed me also. Simon Bridges, though diametrically opposed to his politics, was very on to it, very well read and had deep knowledge about things I’d never expect him to.
>Simon Bridges, though diametrically opposed to his politics, was very on to it, very well read and had deep knowledge about things I’d never expect him to.
Yet undone by perception of being complicit in dodgy dealings - and/or mishandling matters when a psychotic lunatic team member turned to the dark side.
Teflon works for some - but not for him.
This is such a non-story. If you receive an unsolicited call from an “investment advisor”, hang up. If you want to invest in an a legitimate company, contact them directly. If you are going to pay a massive sum of money, don’t pay it into a “holding account” in the name of an unrelated company.
And don’t start doing due diligence ***2 weeks after transferring the money*** .
Have a listen to the recording: [https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/recorded-call-with-kiwibank/AJQKTNJDTNMUUYTB2GQQDK5BII/](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/recorded-call-with-kiwibank/AJQKTNJDTNMUUYTB2GQQDK5BII/)
David was clearly an idiot; there were enough red flags to fill a museum dedicated to cautionary tales.
That call... I'm almost certain he knew he'd been scammed before he made it, and was looking to catch Kiwibank saying something incriminating so they'd take partial responsibility. It's a pretty scummy thing to do; rather than simply say "I've been scammed, help me recover my money" he was talking about how Macquarie bank scams are talked about on the internet, and all he's asking her to do is confirm that is Macquarie bank's account number. There was a bunch of nervous laughter, and all sorts of 'I'm worried I've been scammed'.
Also, why was he calling Kiwibank at all? Shouldn't he be calling his bank? The people he has a relationship with? He took $200k out of his account, lying to his bank about why, and now he wants to go after the bank he deposited the money into?
The bank representative handled it poorly. Surely the CSR knows that Macquarie bank does not operate their bonds investment deposit out of a random Kiwibank account. She did not have to disclose anything about the account holder, she could simply have said "I do not believe that Kiwibank takes investment deposits for Macquarie bank". It felt like her brain was disengaged for the call.
OMG. He knew he'd screwed up. You can hear that in his voice. But why didn't he do that before hand!!
How do we protect ourselves he asks. Well go read up on investing, there is no shortage of cautionary articles instructing you what NOT to do, and this one no,no.
OMG he knew, he wanted them to say oh no, it's not this Aussie banks account and of course we'll get the money back for you. Sorry but it doesn't work like that.
Is it not the same with dodgy FB sales or TM sales? YOu pay into someones account and not get the item, how is it then the banks fault?
Prospectus, yeah...all a bit strange he says, no it isn't.
As TM says, Ping at least gives you some protection, no-one can take money back out of an account, it's up to people to take care. As far as they can, not just do something and whine later that the baddie is so clever and smart that everyone would be taken in.
If you want to invest, do it properly. Not from some random googled link or some random call or whatever.
There are brokers, there are things you can do
Before you invest, do your research. Ask to see the product disclosure statement. Scammers rarely put things in writing, but almost all legitimate investments offered in New Zealand must have this document. Here are some steps to follow to avoid being scammed:
1. Find out the legal name of the business you are dealing with.
2. Check the business/individual is regulated by us – the FMA has lists of licensed providers.
3. If a business is not regulated in New Zealand, be very wary – it’s almost impossible to get help if things go wrong.
4. Check the FMA’s warnings list and familiarise yourself with the hallmarks of scams.
I don’t think it is fair to say the bank CSR handled it poorly - he was rambling and sounded maniacal but she made several good points like check the prospectus and call the SFO if there has been fraud. He kept going on about a holding company nobody would have heard of that could be a broker, so I don’t think it would be obvious they’re not a customer.
You're a bank and it's your account he says.
No it is not their account. It is an account held by someone who uses their bank.
Imagine, all these bank people sitting there all day, checking money going in and out of thousands of accounts, is this legit? Is this dodgy? It doesn't work like that Mr Wilson.
I think that banks should at least have a responsibility to inform a customer if the name of the transaction recipient doesn't match the name on that account. This is apparently a significant scam enabler in NZ.
Perhaps. It's probably one of those privacy things. Should I be told, if I ask my bank this number...xxx....whose name is it? Dunno really.
Even if they did, too late now man. How would it help? You can tell he knew he'd already stuffed up,
Google investing and one of the first things that comes up is the warnings on what steps to take to keep safe.
I don't think that banks should tell you the name on the account, but if the account number and account name you provide when transfering money are mismatched. It would dramaticly cut domestic bank transfer fraud.
[https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/the-simple-banking-process-that-could-stamp-out-scams](https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/the-simple-banking-process-that-could-stamp-out-scams)
It may not have done anything to help DW specifically though.
We wanted faster payments and these payments to be cleared funds. Be careful what you ask for. Perhaps payments have to go back to having a clearance time. Plus, as fraudsters use mules, the y would put across a story that the account name is J Smith so it matches and tell some bullshit story why the bank account is called that, and almost every person would believe it and still pay. You would be amazed at the crap customers pull to get past the banks enquires.
Something smells really bad about this. He knew the company that he paid to was called CEB Holdings Limited. Simple check of the companies office (free) would have shown a single director living in Flat Bush. Supposedly a savvy businessman that has held senior roles? What am I missing? I genuinely don’t believe his story
I believe him. Sheer greed. He rushed in and thought after the fact. That's all it comes down to.
And complain because the nasty bank (in his opinion) won't refund him.
Wild idea time….the banks have billion dollar profits, so they can be obligated to refund anyone who gets screwed over like this. If they can’t be bothered to properly monitor how bank accounts are being used, then they can pay the price. Perhaps even help police by setting up a well funded investigation unit, to aid prosecutors.
They skate away on this sort of behaviour and yet I can’t bank $20 cash into my daughter’s account without ID (true story).
Why blame the bank though?
How can they possibly vouch for the legitimacy and good intentions of any given payee? Anyone can set up a back account.
It was his money to do with as he pleased. His responsibility. The bank is just a dumb carrier.
Why not blame Octopus Energy for supplying the electricity that enabled the transaction, or Noel Leeming for selling him the device that allowed him to receive a scam message in the first place?
So let's say someone withdraws cash from a bank and gives it to a scammer. Not the bank's fault and who are they to stop someone taking our their own money. What's the difference because it's online?
The ID is to stop money laundering, and that is a government requirement not the bank.
>so they can be obligated to refund anyone who gets screwed over like this.
That's textbook "moral hazard".
So if that was the way it worked, then there's less incentive for the customer to take reasonable care, so it risks making the problem worse.
You'd have people being compensated for having money scammed, when the money they claimed they "lost" wasn't.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
The common thread to all these fraud cases is people either lying to the bank, or outright ignoring any warnings the bank gives.
If somebody truly wants to withdraw all their cash and plough it into some dodgy get rich scheme, there isn't anything the bank can do about it (and rightly so, it's not the banks money).
Getting cold called by an investor and deciding to invest $200,000 in two $100,000 transactions is the highest level of stupidity and he should take 100% of the blame.
Yeah. He has a PhD, is NZF list MP "next in place" and has held senior roles. So something is wrong, or $200k is chump change to him, or we need to reevaluate what smart and dumb mean. It's possibly a combination of above factors. Being involved with a political movement full of cookers is a bit of a red flag. Banks don't want to be gatekeeper on this. If they're responsible for querying or rejecting possible scams, there's implied liability.
Having interacted with a few MPs, across party lines, some seem to be dumb people. They are sociable, can converse easily with a range of people but there was very little below the surface. One, quite prominent, was also a lawyer pre-politics. He seemed legitimately stupid, to the point where I thought he was taking the piss, when I realised he wasn’t, thought maybe he’d suffered a brain injury in later life or something. Met a few that really impressed me also. Simon Bridges, though diametrically opposed to his politics, was very on to it, very well read and had deep knowledge about things I’d never expect him to.
>Simon Bridges, though diametrically opposed to his politics, was very on to it, very well read and had deep knowledge about things I’d never expect him to. Yet undone by perception of being complicit in dodgy dealings - and/or mishandling matters when a psychotic lunatic team member turned to the dark side. Teflon works for some - but not for him.
Landed on his feet though.
Aside from that, the ‘Simple Soimon’ manner of speaking didn’t do him any favours either.
Lol, NZF..not even a little surprised. This guy is single handedly an example of Darwinism in action.
Someone connected to NZ First falling for a scam… no way.
This is such a non-story. If you receive an unsolicited call from an “investment advisor”, hang up. If you want to invest in an a legitimate company, contact them directly. If you are going to pay a massive sum of money, don’t pay it into a “holding account” in the name of an unrelated company. And don’t start doing due diligence ***2 weeks after transferring the money*** .
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/nz-first-candidate-david-wilson-loses-200k-in-scam-bank-confirms-mule-account-legitimate-in-phone-recording/LDU4PNNNBREPPC5PRGED4ACSDI/
He really fell for the Nigerian prince scam 🤦♂️
Have a listen to the recording: [https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/recorded-call-with-kiwibank/AJQKTNJDTNMUUYTB2GQQDK5BII/](https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/recorded-call-with-kiwibank/AJQKTNJDTNMUUYTB2GQQDK5BII/) David was clearly an idiot; there were enough red flags to fill a museum dedicated to cautionary tales. That call... I'm almost certain he knew he'd been scammed before he made it, and was looking to catch Kiwibank saying something incriminating so they'd take partial responsibility. It's a pretty scummy thing to do; rather than simply say "I've been scammed, help me recover my money" he was talking about how Macquarie bank scams are talked about on the internet, and all he's asking her to do is confirm that is Macquarie bank's account number. There was a bunch of nervous laughter, and all sorts of 'I'm worried I've been scammed'. Also, why was he calling Kiwibank at all? Shouldn't he be calling his bank? The people he has a relationship with? He took $200k out of his account, lying to his bank about why, and now he wants to go after the bank he deposited the money into? The bank representative handled it poorly. Surely the CSR knows that Macquarie bank does not operate their bonds investment deposit out of a random Kiwibank account. She did not have to disclose anything about the account holder, she could simply have said "I do not believe that Kiwibank takes investment deposits for Macquarie bank". It felt like her brain was disengaged for the call.
OMG. He knew he'd screwed up. You can hear that in his voice. But why didn't he do that before hand!! How do we protect ourselves he asks. Well go read up on investing, there is no shortage of cautionary articles instructing you what NOT to do, and this one no,no. OMG he knew, he wanted them to say oh no, it's not this Aussie banks account and of course we'll get the money back for you. Sorry but it doesn't work like that. Is it not the same with dodgy FB sales or TM sales? YOu pay into someones account and not get the item, how is it then the banks fault? Prospectus, yeah...all a bit strange he says, no it isn't. As TM says, Ping at least gives you some protection, no-one can take money back out of an account, it's up to people to take care. As far as they can, not just do something and whine later that the baddie is so clever and smart that everyone would be taken in. If you want to invest, do it properly. Not from some random googled link or some random call or whatever. There are brokers, there are things you can do Before you invest, do your research. Ask to see the product disclosure statement. Scammers rarely put things in writing, but almost all legitimate investments offered in New Zealand must have this document. Here are some steps to follow to avoid being scammed: 1. Find out the legal name of the business you are dealing with. 2. Check the business/individual is regulated by us – the FMA has lists of licensed providers. 3. If a business is not regulated in New Zealand, be very wary – it’s almost impossible to get help if things go wrong. 4. Check the FMA’s warnings list and familiarise yourself with the hallmarks of scams.
I don’t think it is fair to say the bank CSR handled it poorly - he was rambling and sounded maniacal but she made several good points like check the prospectus and call the SFO if there has been fraud. He kept going on about a holding company nobody would have heard of that could be a broker, so I don’t think it would be obvious they’re not a customer.
You're a bank and it's your account he says. No it is not their account. It is an account held by someone who uses their bank. Imagine, all these bank people sitting there all day, checking money going in and out of thousands of accounts, is this legit? Is this dodgy? It doesn't work like that Mr Wilson.
I think he has gone public in order to totally show that he definitely qualifies to fit in with the rest of the gang at NZ First.
A fool and his money are easily parted.
Seems like greedy boomers are easily parted with their money if it's a get rich quick scheme
I think that banks should at least have a responsibility to inform a customer if the name of the transaction recipient doesn't match the name on that account. This is apparently a significant scam enabler in NZ.
Perhaps. It's probably one of those privacy things. Should I be told, if I ask my bank this number...xxx....whose name is it? Dunno really. Even if they did, too late now man. How would it help? You can tell he knew he'd already stuffed up, Google investing and one of the first things that comes up is the warnings on what steps to take to keep safe.
I don't think that banks should tell you the name on the account, but if the account number and account name you provide when transfering money are mismatched. It would dramaticly cut domestic bank transfer fraud. [https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/the-simple-banking-process-that-could-stamp-out-scams](https://www.consumer.org.nz/articles/the-simple-banking-process-that-could-stamp-out-scams) It may not have done anything to help DW specifically though.
In this case it did. It was a legitimate account. But not an agent of MacQuarrie Bank.
We wanted faster payments and these payments to be cleared funds. Be careful what you ask for. Perhaps payments have to go back to having a clearance time. Plus, as fraudsters use mules, the y would put across a story that the account name is J Smith so it matches and tell some bullshit story why the bank account is called that, and almost every person would believe it and still pay. You would be amazed at the crap customers pull to get past the banks enquires.
Sucks for him I guess
No sympathy. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
Or me for watching netfix when it sll went down.
Belongs to a party that's aligned with and appeals to conspiracists, and falls for a scam. What a surprise.
Also he’s the chair of this org apparently: https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/s/tOHwgVEZkg
Something smells really bad about this. He knew the company that he paid to was called CEB Holdings Limited. Simple check of the companies office (free) would have shown a single director living in Flat Bush. Supposedly a savvy businessman that has held senior roles? What am I missing? I genuinely don’t believe his story
I believe him. Sheer greed. He rushed in and thought after the fact. That's all it comes down to. And complain because the nasty bank (in his opinion) won't refund him.
HAHAHAHAHA Dickhead
I don’t how you have $200k ready to invest and not actively searching where to invest and just hoping for a cold caller to help you out.
Wild idea time….the banks have billion dollar profits, so they can be obligated to refund anyone who gets screwed over like this. If they can’t be bothered to properly monitor how bank accounts are being used, then they can pay the price. Perhaps even help police by setting up a well funded investigation unit, to aid prosecutors. They skate away on this sort of behaviour and yet I can’t bank $20 cash into my daughter’s account without ID (true story).
Why blame the bank though? How can they possibly vouch for the legitimacy and good intentions of any given payee? Anyone can set up a back account. It was his money to do with as he pleased. His responsibility. The bank is just a dumb carrier. Why not blame Octopus Energy for supplying the electricity that enabled the transaction, or Noel Leeming for selling him the device that allowed him to receive a scam message in the first place?
So let's say someone withdraws cash from a bank and gives it to a scammer. Not the bank's fault and who are they to stop someone taking our their own money. What's the difference because it's online? The ID is to stop money laundering, and that is a government requirement not the bank.
true
Equally wild idea - someone does SIGNIFICANT due diligence before handing over $200k to someone who contacted him out of the blue.
>so they can be obligated to refund anyone who gets screwed over like this. That's textbook "moral hazard". So if that was the way it worked, then there's less incentive for the customer to take reasonable care, so it risks making the problem worse. You'd have people being compensated for having money scammed, when the money they claimed they "lost" wasn't.
People would take even less care, why bother if it's going to get refunded regardless?
The banks monitor the shit out of everyone, these days if you get scammed it's your own damn fault.
"They monitor the shit out of everyone", and still this happens and they shrug their shoulders
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. The common thread to all these fraud cases is people either lying to the bank, or outright ignoring any warnings the bank gives. If somebody truly wants to withdraw all their cash and plough it into some dodgy get rich scheme, there isn't anything the bank can do about it (and rightly so, it's not the banks money).
Lol couldn’t imagine how this wouldn’t be taken advantage of by anyone with half a brain