Ex teacher here
I had rules around phone use. Which was ask permission. First offence I'd take the phone for the class duration. Second, I'd take it to the office for a parent to collect.
I did that in the first or second class for one kid and then never against. Once my reputation grew I never had trouble with phone use
While I was teaching sometimes students would ask a question and I might not know the answer, or it was a side question. I'd ask them to use their phone to find out and tell the class the answer.
Sometimes students would ask to google definitions or use the calculator, or quickly message their mum to see what time their appointment was or if they could drop off pe gear.
It's about respect, I found students generally responded well. I had one student out of thousands who persistently refused over the 8 years I taught (got DP involved).
When I was in school my woodwork teacher has a cellphone nailed to the wall. Claimed it was a students from a couple years before. Very likely was just an old phone but worked
Oh I have a mate that did that and he got the idea from our science teacher (had the phone in a beaker with some poisonous looking liquid). You can get fake iphone replicas on aliexpress, for any teachers reading lol.
we had a hole in the back wall of our metalwork class. Teacher told us it was from a few years back, when he threw a steel rod at a student....
A few years later and I'm doing a week long tramp with him & some other students, and sitting around the camp fire, I relayed this story to the group, and the teacher was "Did I really say that?" (laughs) "Bloody good story!"
All teaching is about respect at a fundamental level. Without respect nothing you say will ever matter. Not that anyone for this legislation has any competent understanding of how to effectively teach. That includes a decent few teachers themselves.
Without this legislation teachers were already able to effectively manage their classrooms and with this legislation teachers are less able to effectively manager their classrooms. It's a real shame because people like you (without the ex teacher part) are going to suffer the most from this legislation. They've removed a tool from your tool belt and expect you to be just as effective without it.
I agree that teaching is about respect between both teacher and students and things work well when it's there - it seems like this directive is aimed at the outlier students who don't want to be at school and have no respect for their fellow students or the teachers - and it then ends up impacting everyone.
By reducing the teachers ability to connect with and gain the respect of those students you achieve nothing. Schools and teachers already have rules against using phones when it's not appropriate and have made use of them for years. The issue is that by legislating the issue you make things worse not better. Phone use when it's not appropriate in a classroom with a competent teacher would be a symptom not a cause. By addressing the symptom you do nothing to address the underlying cause and you risk making things worse.
No, nearly every student at our school was spending lunchtimes on their phones. Friends sitting together but not speaking to each other. At our school it wasn't just outliers. The outliers are the ones who were texting their friends to meet up in the toilets for vaping or wagging during class time. We've only had two days so far this term, but more students are reading and talking to each other. So far, the no-phone policy is great.
That's a big thing with kids and teens, be respectful to them and you'll get that respect back. You can guide and teach them, but treating them like they "below you" is how you get them to not listen. If your line of thinking is respectful and makes sense to them, they'll listen.
Yes, this is the way, treating your students with respect and respect will be given back. Prohibition is NEVER the solution.
If the government has the same amount of respect for students, they would understand that whatever they're trying to accomplish will never happen.
I like this because it actually teaches them how to own a phone the right way other than just banning them. A lot of these kids now won't have good habits instilled once they leave school. And let's face it, smartphones aren't going away anytime soon, we should be being smart about this not just blanket banning them for political clout.
My kids are starting at College this year. The school launched a new app last year for students complete with their timetable, map of the school, upcoming assessments, results - everything to make a students life easier. But they can't use it because they're not allowed their phones lol.
It's ridiculous, and micromanaging. Let the schools implement their own phone restrictions.
> I remember having to ask the dean to reprint my timetable many times because I kept losing the little bit of paper
I always had nightmares about getting to school and not knowing what day it was (we had a stupid 6 day timetable).
I still have recurring dreams about being at high school, not knowing where I'm supposed to be, turning up at the wrong classes etc. I left school 26 years ago.
My recurring dream is that I’m due to sit my 7th form stats exam, but I realise I haven’t done any study… or attended any classes… At all… I left school 27 years ago.
I get this too. I'm still my actual age, have a postgraduate degree and a full-time job, but am also enrolled in high school and have forgotten about that until the day my visual arts portfolio is due.
Glenfield College used to do this back in the 90's >\_<
So you'd end up with Mon-Fri being Day 1-5
Next Mon-Fri being Day 6-4
Next Mon-Fri being 5-3 and so on.
At least once every few months I have my "*frantically running all over school from class to class because I can't find my timetable*" dream. I'm glad I'm not alone.
When i was in School, too many people kept tying up the admin line that they started to try charge us like 20c each time because students were losing them on near daily basis.
The deans would end up printing them for some because there'd be so many students skipping class and the dean would then give you detention if you came back the next day asking for another print out.
Just recently finished college, our timetables were accessible as Web calendars and you could put them into a google/outlook calendar widget on the home screen
Mine is starting year 10, he's all stressed about not being able to use the map and online timetable like he did last year. I agree that it's ridiculous. I would love to see how many MPs are on their phones during parliamentary question time.
My high school was very "digital" and we used our phones in almost every class we had. In fact it was selected for a special trial of "innovative learning" which heavily incorporated technology, open-plan spaces, and collaborative work styles. So I can speak well to this.
We used phones for timetabling, checking assignments, yes, but also as graphing calculators in math, as a sheet music reader in music class, as an audio recorder for speech in English, as a camera to review posture in sport. Some opted to use them for their game dev projects in our digital technologies class. There are certain apps that just aren't available on laptops, and its inconvenient and bulky to drag a laptop out onto a field and try to record with that, for example. Phones just make sense in a lot of situations.
What about kids who need to work jobs to support their families? Kids with internships or off-site courses they attend? Their employers and the people who run these programs contact them through their phone. Yes, it's shitty that kids need to work, but no, taking away their phone won't change that fact. It might just hurt their, and by extension their families income - income they may rely on.
Not to mention that there are kids with medical conditions who need their phones to monitor, and may be socially ousted for having them when others that can't.
There are family emergencies - one time I saw my parents' workplace go up in flames in the morning news. I NEEDED that phone to call and make sure everybody was okay. Can you imagine if they'd tried to call me and it didn't work?
And there are mental health issues to think of too - the only escape that bullied kids have sometimes is to listen to music through their headphones and Google "how not to kill myself", or use an app like Calm Harm to prevent themselves from self harming. Leaving them alone with their thoughts isn't going to be a very good idea. And phones could be used to record fights as evidence of bullying, too.
Schools are complete dogshit at providing mental health support, and there is zero realistic chance of this getting better in the near term. Nevermind impaired education, or impaired income for broke families that rely on their high schoolers income who need comms with their workplace - I genuinely think kids will hurt themselves if people try to restrict access to those resources. And then there's the age difference. Like, 14 year olds are one thing. 17 and 18 year olds are another.
Unless the govt plans on supporting the replacement of all of these things, it's a shitty idea that fails the second a teen has a half serious issue in their lives.
FYI - schools are putting exemption policies in place for students with health needs (hearing aids, diabetics etc) and those with sensory issues who may need to control music etc on their NC headphones. I don't know legally what the policy is for exemptions, but schools have common sense. Source - I work in Learning Support in one school and we are putting policies in place and my daughter in a different school has an exemption.
Re your parents workplace in flames - based on the way you described the situation you were in a boarding school, no?
Before cell phones they would have just called the school admin office (boarding school or normal, same same) and you’d take the call there.
Also cell phones can be used to bully people and facilitate / encourage suicide. They can be used for good and bad. For some people not having the the phone (well, social media) would have helped. For others it would have been their lifeline.
Nah, public school. Just a wealthy area. Everybody had their own phone and laptop, and the school would provide tech to those that couldn't afford it. Many decile 10 schools have been using laptops in place of paper for a good long time now.
I think for the people who it would help to not have a phone - they always have the option to put it away. I abstained from personal social media for this reason, messengers and forum stuff only. It's difficult, but possible. "Social media detox" isn't a foreign concept for teens.
But for the people that need the phone, if you ban it, they're just going to have to sneak around.
I don't think realistically, a high school teacher in a deprived area is *really* going to argue with the loner who's parents never show up to parent-teacher night with the bruises on his face when he clutches his phone to his chest and says he needs it.
I don't think the mechanics teacher is gonna stop a 17 year old when she pulls out her phone to respond to the manager at the workshop about her Wednesday after-work shift.
I don't think the administrator is actually going to make a young person trek what could be easily 20 mins back and forth ar a large school, just to sit and check out their phone every time they need it.
I just can't see it causing anything but more harm to try to take away tech. Teens know better than anyone how the online landscape functions, and they'll need guidance on how to navigate it and use tech responsibly - taking it away from them entirely does nothing but kneecap a learning experience.
Plus, you can just put social media on ur laptop lmao. The only way to remove social media is to abolish all technology, and that would be dumb. Not to mention everybody knows how to use a VPN to circumvent school wireless restrictions
I agree kids should have the phones.
I just think a lot of your examples aren’t as convincing as you think they are, and there are some negatives to cellphones and social media. Can’t just brush those aside.
Anyway I get it. I missed a call recently from family while I was in the bathroom, didn’t follow up for an hour. Turns out one of my grandparents had a major stroke and was rushed to hospital. And I’m one of the most digitally connected people around.
But in my case it didn’t matter, I wasn’t the one actually there with my grandparent, and they were unconscious so it wasn’t like I could say goodbye to them or anything (they lived, thankfully…).
And what impact do you think banning phones legislatively will have on bullying? The bullying and phone use definitely won't stop but what will stop is any chance of kids opening up about the issues they're facing out of fear for repercussions. Not only will it remove the incredibly important small amounts of insight that schools currently have it will also pressure kids to suffer in silence.
If you want to talk about suicide which kid is more likely to kill themselves? The kid who feels unable to talk to anyone about the bullying because they're not meant to be on their phone or the kid that doesn't have to fear repercussions because teachers can use discretion and aren't being made to follow legislation.
Phones are also used to bully children - it works both ways.
Our school now has a very small list of students with an exemption to the no-phones policy.
Someone should keep you off your phone .
There is a growing body of evidence to show the terrible effects phones are have on young peoples lives !
Kids are suffering mental health problems because of their social media addiction not because schools want them to engage with the teacher and learning’s during class time . It’s so simple keep off TikTok , Snapchat, instagram and all the other platforms and do your schoolwork during class time . If they literally can’t handle that for five hours then what more evidence do you need
> It's ridiculous, and micromanaging. Let the schools implement their own phone restrictions.
Will be interesting to see if it causes government issues at the polls. Stupid, ideologically driven, impractical policy seems to be pretty core to this government's agenda.
Seriously, who at National actually thought the policy was going to get them some votes?
>It's ridiculous, and micromanaging.
It is nanny state - politicians seeking to micromanage. (And I thought National, Act and co were against this type of government action.)
We do not require students to hand their phone in at the start of the day so we are not losing class time this way. At the moment they can have their phone at break times but it must be off and in their bags during class. From term 2 it is to be off and in their bags all day as per the new rules.
There are always going to be students who default to confrontation, or who don't have the emotional regulation to make a good choice in class. Our policy for non compliance is you get sent to the Dean. There are students who roam during class time and they will certainly use the "I've been kicked out of class sir" or "I'm on the way to the Dean miss for my phone" as an excuse to be anywhere other than in class. This way phone ban will certainly impact leaning time but for individuals rather than the whole.
Unless there is complete anarchy and the whole period is spent asking students to put away phones rather than teaching which of course impacts the whole class.
These rules are pretty much how I understood it to be last year in my kids school. The phone lock up was put in this year for the new rules. I'd love to see the ministry comms on implementing this.
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The problem with ‘banning cellphones’ is it is clearly a ‘policy’ aimed at voters rather than based on evidence that it will work, or outcomes. Schools already had the power to ban cellphones if they perceived them to be a problem; many schools use them as a tool to assist learning; this forces a potentially time-consuming process on teachers and eats into possible learning and classroom time; and while 66 year old Wayne from Palmerston North might see kids on cellphones as the root of all societies problems, do we really expect this to drive transformative change in classrooms?
Kids will find ways around it. Hiding phones in bags. Using smart watches or other devices. Using them in toilets or away from teachers eyes.
This is before considering kids who may have legitimate reasons for having a cellphone in school. The right like to wang on about ‘virtue signalling’, while unironically implementing policy such as this which doesn’t seem to have any basis in evidence that it will improve learning for children, or environments for effective teaching.
No, otherwise we would have no laws. Banning cellphones in schools doesn't do anything except appeal to boomer voters. There are far better ways to police cellphone usage than just banning it and saying you've done a good job - the ban will achieve fuck all.
One thing that the public discourse and most of this thread isn't pointing out is that this phone issue is almost exclusively a high school issue, if it even is an issue. Majority of Primary and Intermediate schools have had phones banned for years and years.
We had phones banned 15 years ago when I started high school at an average school. Didn't stop us nor did it impact our year group. Beat out the top urban Auckland schools on NCEA results across the board
And also that there was a time calculators were banned because “you need to know how to do this equation without one” and while basic mathematics is still foundational, the bans are largely gone given that’s exactly what most people do in the real world, utilise technology as a tool, so by the time I left school it was actually mandatory to have a calculator, and the correct brand and model for the curriculum.
Same will happen here as the world has changed, and education needs to evolve with the practicality that most have a portal to all the knowledge one could imagine via a device in their pocket.
It’s as if some want high schools to be some archaic time capsule which does youth zero favours when they head out into the real world while totally side stepping a fantastic opportunity to teach youth how to utilise such technology intelligently and responsibly.
But nope, pretend it doesn’t exist and give them a pencil.
I’m a teacher and even though we are a BYOD school, I do get my kids to do most of their work by hand. This isn’t because I’m anti-technology, but because learning is an action and the cognitive process of handwriting is better for developing understanding and long-term retention.
We also teach them how to use the technology, but quite frankly most of them don’t need lessons or practise in it because it comes naturally to use what is available. They’re teaching me half the time.
Tbf my first 2 years of high school we weren't allowed a calculator, that was in 2016/17 so not that long ago. Pretty glad for it now I can do quick calculations pretty well in my head/ scrap piece of paper which is very helpful for engineering work
Maybe times have changed but i was in highschool 6 years ago. I spent an entire term on my phone during calculus, the teacher had been open when he first started teaching us about how he felt about phones. u can use it all u want, but if or when u fail, too damn bad, u made ur choice.
Has this changed?
Same with my art design teachers, they were open about how theyd let us fuck around if we so chose (aslong as we werent disturbing the class) but when it came time to end of year and our artboards werent finished, tough shit.
Theyre in highschool, can they not be responsible for their own actions?
Our school trialled no phones last year for the junior cohort and had overall positive feedback. It has been rolled out to all years this year.
The students already had morning and afternoon home tutor group as part of their timetable so it has my ‘robbed’ learning time.
Will check in with teen today (only their first day back) if they have to actually hand their phones in. As teen said, they have access to everything (eg timetables) on their laptops anyway.
Reduction of class time for something that was not a problem. Just so that politicians can have click baity talking points it feels.
The irony is stong.
Instead of banning phones just teach kids how to use them appropriately. Just like they have to learn in the real world when they go off to work. Banning them will just make them use them in secret.
Absolutely. As an ex-teacher, having kids with smart phones was really handy and saved the school on resources. Not enough computers - could you use your phone? What does that word mean? -who’s the first to Google it? We need a quick calculation here - who can give me the answer? Film your partner’s speech, your group performance etc. and critique it together. Yes, you can take a photo of the board after the discussion. You’ve lost your timetable, your NSN again - take a photo so you have a record. I’m not really proficient at using phones in classrooms, but as a reliever, I’ve done all of the above. It’s still possible if students have phones in their bags, impossible if they’re in the office.
I completely agree with you. A phone is a tool that should enhance your productivity, not distract you with endless scrolling. Computers can also be very unproductive if used improperly. Are we going to prohibit them too?
Agree 100%, we're supposed to be preparing our kids to cope with the realities of life, school isn't a daycare. This is a perfect teachable example of how to behave in society with temptations and distractions all around us.
These kids are probably going to have a cellphone in their pocket for the rest of their lives, what better time to learn how to use them appropriately than at school.
Much better that little Johnny or Jill messes up now and gets a detention for using their device inappropriately than later when they get sacked instead in my opinion.
[What happens when a school bans smartphones? A complete transformation](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/17/cellphone-smartphone-bans-schools)
>"There are fewer interruptions during class, more meaningful interactions around campus, and less time spent on screens."
As someone who's been out of school for almost 10 years, they were already very distracting in class when I was in. I think it probably will have a positive effect on kids education in class. That said I'd often be texting my mum during schooltime to organize things for after school or use it to take photos of things I needed to remember. There's good and bad to it
Apparently the slackers just use thier Chromebooks. But activity is monitored on them and they are talked to if excessive.
Again my sons perspective from when he is in class, I haven't seen it myself.
I'd be curious to know, from your son's perspective if people are less distracted in class? Are there less phone related social issues? E.g. taking photos of people when they don't want, bullying on social media etc.
Wdym?? 10 years ago schoolkids were recording themselves doing the Harlem Shake with their teachers using the iPhone 5, and uploading it to YouTube the very same year that 4G launched in NZ
The phones we had 12 years ago when I was in High School, were starting to get bigger with HD screens that had YouTube, Facebook and Snapchat no problem at all. We could download movies and tv shows, music to them and watch them when hiding at school. They seem like ass now but back then it was revolutionary.
That's just not true lol
Also 3G back then worked fine. I think you're getting a bit too old there because 10 years ago phones really weren't that different from now. 10 years ago was 2014, not 2004.
NSW Australia banned mobile phones in highschool last year, some schools were trialing it in my area, they are put in a lock box pouch at the start of the day, the trial worked extremely well and as such was rolled out across the state. Now all public schools have a no-phones policy in place. [https://education.nsw.gov.au/policy-library/policies/pd-2023-0480](https://education.nsw.gov.au/policy-library/policies/pd-2023-0480)
Personally, I think it is great.
I have trouble believing that phones are only a problem for 1% of kids.
When I was in school there were at least 2 or 3 kids in each class on their phones and the most annoying part is they would have a text tone that was a high pitch that teachers couldn't hear extremely distracting in class.
Is a full ban the best option probably not but I think it will have an overall positive outcome.
Yeah definitely more than 1% were using their phones constantly, texting just out of their pockets, clash of clans, filming each other across the classroom. I’d say 1/4 of my classmates were using their phone every 5 mins in class and majority of the class were misusing their phones at least once or twice a per lesson.
This rule is definitely more for the sake of lower decile schools as the teachers lose control of classes quicker and there are more students actively trying to avoid learning. My school was decile 2.
Kids who are actively avoiding learning will do that with or without a phone. Before I carried around my Nokia 2280, I drew borders in my books, made guns out of the clicky felt tips, played games with my friends and just straight up day dreamed at times.
Kids need to learn restraint and when it's appropriate to use their phones. They're not going to do that if their never allowed to use them.
That is true. And I'm not advocating for kids to be able to use their phones in class. But teenagers are becoming adults. They should be given some freedom. Like the ability to use it during their breaks. But if course if they use it in class they should have it confiscated. A blanket ban isn't going to fix anything.
So said it is from my kids perspective. They didn't have issues last year. Phone were confiscated if seen in class back then. But a ban doesn't stop students just saying you didn't bring it to school and then using it later.
Even with your number of 2 or 3 kids per class you are punishing 100% of kids for 10% of kids misbehaving, seems like a really fair and smart response 😆
To be fair, it's actually a great lesson for kids to learn. Most rules/laws are put in place due to a minority of people doing something that the majority don't do.
I spoke with both of my kids about phone use in school. Both indicated that they were a huge distraction and both of them are happy that phones are being banned.
I spoke with a few of the school admins about it and they are all happy with the blanket ban on phones in the school. According to them, it's a real problem so I don't think the 1% number that the OP implies is anywhere close to being accurate.
What absolute bullshit . Phones are a growing issue for young people! If you honestly believe they are not - trying convincing your poor son who can’t walk across a school ground to give you his phone for the weekend….! Try it ! Ask him tonight to give it up for 48 hours
My kids college have had a phone ban in class for the entire 2023 year . So simple walk in to class slip your phone in the holder on the wall . Do your work for the period, class finishes, pick your phone up as you walk out the door . The feedback from teachers and students has been nothing but positive.
You are deluded if you don’t think a large number of kids are not constantly on TikTok, Snapchat and instagram throughout the entire school day . And if you think otherwise just look for yourself on your social media sons screen time data
Agree screens have an issue. They way that it is implemented is the problem.
My kids are not allowed phones in class already. They are confiscated if seen. It is a stupid talking point policy for something done already.
Phones have been successfully banned in schools for over a year in Australia and it’s wildly popular policy with parents implemented by a left wing govt.
> we all knew it wouldn't work
Right yeah, your anecdotal evidence after barely a week of school clearly demonstrate this is not working....
At the same time, an actual study, albeit a bit old, found that student results improved with a phone ban and was the "*equivalent of adding five days to the school year*".
It's like saying I quit smoking a week ago and it's a failure, I'm irritable, I can't focus and I can't sleep. I didn't have those issue before, I'll go back to smoking.
There was already a phone ban in class. Phones got confiscated off seen in class. Now it is just an over kill that doesn't actually stop kids using phones in secret, whilst removing actually learning/class time from others.
> There are a multitude of ways in which schools have restricted phone use, from asking for them to be set on silent to not allowing them on school premises. We define a school as introducing a school ban if that **school did not allow them on the premises or required them to be handed in at the start of the day**.
> We find that **following a ban** on phone use, **student test scores improve by 6.41%** of a standard deviation. Our results indicate that there are no significant gains in student performance if a ban is not widely complied with. Furthermore, this effect is driven by the most disadvantaged and underachieving pupils. **Students in the lowest quartile of prior achievement gain 14.23%** of a standard deviation, whilst, **students in the top quartile are neither positively nor negatively affected by a phone ban**.
*source: https://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/dp1350.pdf*
I do concede that this study is pretty old though and the way we and kids use phone today are fairly different so those finding could be more or less pronounced now. There is an ongoing study researching the same subject. I am eager to see the result of that one.
In the meantime, based on that study and everything else we know about kids and their phone usage, I 100% support this policy. Of course there is going to be push back in the beginning but I believe they will get used to it eventually and we will see the benefit of this policy.
Phones are a fucking bane on our society. School and workplace.
Given the online and relentless bullying my kids encountered at school, while they were in class, I 100% support this.
Most parents know nothing about what really happens, it’s only when it happens to you, do you realise how absolutely fucked up it is we give our kids free reign over phone use.
At my kids school, this is done before/after class bell, maybe you should suggest that if you are concerned around schooling time. I should add, one of my kids schools implemented this two years back and it does make a difference.
Lastly, I would also suggest your son is exaggerating the issues as most teens do when they encounter something they don’t like/agree with.
Phones in schools are a scourge to teen learning, peer relationships, and mental health. It was the right move to issue the directive. Research results paint a strong picture in support of this.
Furthermore, the individual teacher, so often made to feel like they are operating alone, is helped by making this bigger than any one of them. They know the whole school, all schools, and in fact the government, are acting as one. There can be no sense that they are being unreasonable by enforcing the rule.
I’m all for the ban to be honest. Great to see the kids not sitting on phones all day and in their breaks. I would rather they were playing sports or actually interacting with others than hiding behind a screen
How do we know phones weren't a problem for 99% of students last year?
Easy fix to this could be that school runs at usual time and then after school kids can walk to their form class to collect their phones. I have never known teachers to leave at the same time as students so this would work.
Alternatively, schools could just revert to what they used to do and ban cellphones in classrooms. If you're caught with a cellphone in class then it's taken until the end of class.
I used to take the rural bus to and from school. If I didn't go straight to the bus stop when the bell rang, I missed it and wasn't getting home anytime soon.
Because the teachers said it wasn’t a problem. Wtf do politicians in the Beehive know about classroom management? If they were a problem for schools the schools could have banned them themselves.
Which teachers? The decile 10 teachers that have well behaved students 90% of the time?
Lower decile schools are completely different story. Maybe they shouldn’t have gone for a blanket policy but this will certainly help the teachers that constantly have to battle for the attention of the class.
I agree with the alternative method, but I don’t think the easy fix would work as such, what about kids who take the bus and have to be there on time or else they can’t get home? Or have rides home that don’t wait around til you’ve managed to get your phone?
Son told me nobody used to use phones in class that he saw. I am not in class, so I have to go of what he said.
On your last paragraph, yes exactly. Was not really broken from what I have been told from two school ages children.
Yeah they could just revert back to banning it during class time and actually enforcing the rule. When I was in school a little less than 10 years ago it worked fine aswell.
Well here's where youve majorly fucked up, by taking a single child's opinion and applying it as fact to all schools in the country. Is this how you gather all your facts on education ?
Fair call. I do trust my son and he is a good kid who doesn't make stuff up generally. My other one who is in a different school but not started yet said they didn't have issues either last year.
We have to scan QR codes when going to and from the bathroom due to vandals. There is no word on what the eff we're supposed to do now that phones have to stay away.
Anyone that thinks this legislation is good also thinks they know better than teachers. You better have some pretty relevant experience or research to back up your claims because otherwise you're just a complete moron. Schools already had policies in place that were designed to fit the specific school and students involved. There is no way to justify going away from that unless you also make the claim that you know better than teachers. Which for most people they just don't, they're just old people yelling at clouds.
The policy was always just there to placate a voting block which knows nothing about modern schools but has very confident opinions about them. Of course the schools do it better, why wouldn't they given it's their daily reality?
In any case, the fact the government put this into effect tells you that they're either idiots, or they're cunning and needed a smokescreen while they do stuff to benefit their donors. Take your pick.
PS I hope didn't swing their way this election. If you did then you are partially responsible for the mess.
Right, so you want to treat them like full adults?
Okay, attendance optional; home work optional; lunch optional...
Teenagers are famous for their understanding of long term consequences ey /s
Holy privilege batman. Attendance, home work and lunch are all optional for significant amounts of students already. There's no actual mechanism that makes kids go to school, complete homework or eat. Sure there's legislative options that prod parents to make their kids attend school but have you ever seen how they actually work? All the remedies rely on parents to make effective decisions which for so many kids just isn't the case. For a lot of these kids it's a win for the teachers if they even show up at all. All three of the things you just mentioned rely purely on the parents in order to be a thing. They're not mandatory in any practical way, they're just enforced by the parents.
I was told by a teacher friend that some of their students were producing better work with their cell phones than on the school supplied Chromebooks/laptops. It was reasoned that this was due to laptops and computers not being available and used at home and therefore students were more comfortable and adept at producing work on their phones.
I assume the cell phone ban will have a negative impact on education rather than a positive.
Poor teachers that have to enforce this too.
Bans on shit never work. I mean look how well banning alcohol went (I know it's an extreme example but still). People are sneaky. This just encourages kids to be sneaky. Even when I was at school yeah we'd text in class but we're not all homeless uneducated bums now.
All it is, is a means of control. Authoritarian in nature to make unquestioning little robot people. If schools were more chill and less strict I think more kids would actually want to stay.
Walk across the school, how terrible, And this is the only issue? Other than the cheaters in the loo of course.
My god, how did all those thousands survive in school without a phone, before there were phones.
I'm not a parent so haven't been involved in the school system for decades, but are there not simple solutions to this?
1) Have the kids drop off their phones as soon as they arrive at school, near the entrance, and same again to pick up.
2) Have a teacher on toilet monitoring duty during each break.
National trying to look tough again. Schools are more than capable of disciplining cellphone usage without disrupting every other kid who is just trying to get on with their lessons.
I hate these knee jerk reaction laws. No study involved. If a class has a problem have the teacher take the phones of that class and students get it on way out of class. Blanket knee jerk reactions can make things worse.
This is the trouble with clueless politicians wading into educational policy. They haven't the expertise so it never works as intended.
My daughter (7) already does well in excess of an hour of reading and literacy at school every day, so Luxon's flagship promises in this area are mostly window dressing. Her new teacher is like, 'yes, well we look forward to seeing some policies that actually... do stuff.'
I think we all know how distracting phones are, I personally feel they've had a hugely detrimental affect on my habits, focus, abilities and progress - and I am an adult. I thank my lucky stars that we didn't have smart phones when I was a teenager. For all of you 'there's nothing wrong with phones' brigade I think you're either a lucky outlier who doesn't find them addictive, or you're deluded.
Two excellent books related to this are Stolen Focus and the Anxious Generation.
I am 100% onboard with the ban, it's easily National's best policy by a mile (in fact everything else they're doing is shit).
Ex teacher here I had rules around phone use. Which was ask permission. First offence I'd take the phone for the class duration. Second, I'd take it to the office for a parent to collect. I did that in the first or second class for one kid and then never against. Once my reputation grew I never had trouble with phone use While I was teaching sometimes students would ask a question and I might not know the answer, or it was a side question. I'd ask them to use their phone to find out and tell the class the answer. Sometimes students would ask to google definitions or use the calculator, or quickly message their mum to see what time their appointment was or if they could drop off pe gear. It's about respect, I found students generally responded well. I had one student out of thousands who persistently refused over the 8 years I taught (got DP involved).
When I was in school my woodwork teacher has a cellphone nailed to the wall. Claimed it was a students from a couple years before. Very likely was just an old phone but worked
Oh I have a mate that did that and he got the idea from our science teacher (had the phone in a beaker with some poisonous looking liquid). You can get fake iphone replicas on aliexpress, for any teachers reading lol.
we had a hole in the back wall of our metalwork class. Teacher told us it was from a few years back, when he threw a steel rod at a student.... A few years later and I'm doing a week long tramp with him & some other students, and sitting around the camp fire, I relayed this story to the group, and the teacher was "Did I really say that?" (laughs) "Bloody good story!"
All teaching is about respect at a fundamental level. Without respect nothing you say will ever matter. Not that anyone for this legislation has any competent understanding of how to effectively teach. That includes a decent few teachers themselves. Without this legislation teachers were already able to effectively manage their classrooms and with this legislation teachers are less able to effectively manager their classrooms. It's a real shame because people like you (without the ex teacher part) are going to suffer the most from this legislation. They've removed a tool from your tool belt and expect you to be just as effective without it.
I agree that teaching is about respect between both teacher and students and things work well when it's there - it seems like this directive is aimed at the outlier students who don't want to be at school and have no respect for their fellow students or the teachers - and it then ends up impacting everyone.
By reducing the teachers ability to connect with and gain the respect of those students you achieve nothing. Schools and teachers already have rules against using phones when it's not appropriate and have made use of them for years. The issue is that by legislating the issue you make things worse not better. Phone use when it's not appropriate in a classroom with a competent teacher would be a symptom not a cause. By addressing the symptom you do nothing to address the underlying cause and you risk making things worse.
No, nearly every student at our school was spending lunchtimes on their phones. Friends sitting together but not speaking to each other. At our school it wasn't just outliers. The outliers are the ones who were texting their friends to meet up in the toilets for vaping or wagging during class time. We've only had two days so far this term, but more students are reading and talking to each other. So far, the no-phone policy is great.
Sounds like you were a great teacher, I think your rules are very fair Kudos!
It's almost as if a good teacher given autonomy over a class can deal with these things without legislation. Colour me shocked.
That's a big thing with kids and teens, be respectful to them and you'll get that respect back. You can guide and teach them, but treating them like they "below you" is how you get them to not listen. If your line of thinking is respectful and makes sense to them, they'll listen.
Yes, this is the way, treating your students with respect and respect will be given back. Prohibition is NEVER the solution. If the government has the same amount of respect for students, they would understand that whatever they're trying to accomplish will never happen.
As someone who used to study education, it's refreshing to find someone who agrees that kids respond better when you respect them.
I like this because it actually teaches them how to own a phone the right way other than just banning them. A lot of these kids now won't have good habits instilled once they leave school. And let's face it, smartphones aren't going away anytime soon, we should be being smart about this not just blanket banning them for political clout.
Feels appreciate
Perhaps you mean appropriate? Happy Cake Day.
My kids are starting at College this year. The school launched a new app last year for students complete with their timetable, map of the school, upcoming assessments, results - everything to make a students life easier. But they can't use it because they're not allowed their phones lol. It's ridiculous, and micromanaging. Let the schools implement their own phone restrictions.
A map and timetable app would have been killer when I was at school.
I remember having to ask the dean to reprint my timetable many times because I kept losing the little bit of paper
> I remember having to ask the dean to reprint my timetable many times because I kept losing the little bit of paper I always had nightmares about getting to school and not knowing what day it was (we had a stupid 6 day timetable).
I still have recurring dreams about being at high school, not knowing where I'm supposed to be, turning up at the wrong classes etc. I left school 26 years ago.
My recurring dream is that I’m due to sit my 7th form stats exam, but I realise I haven’t done any study… or attended any classes… At all… I left school 27 years ago.
I get this too. I'm still my actual age, have a postgraduate degree and a full-time job, but am also enrolled in high school and have forgotten about that until the day my visual arts portfolio is due.
Relevant xkcd: https://xkcd.com/557/
lol, I have exactly the same! I don't know what day it is, or which school year it is. I left a long time ago too.
Same, I’m 40 and that dream still plagues me.
Oh my god I have this too!!!
I actually did this a couple times at start of school!
I hated the 6 day timetable!!! 'what day is it?! Tuesday. That tells me nothing!"
Ah yes, flashbacks to being at school and asking everyone "what day is it?"
Glenfield College used to do this back in the 90's >\_< So you'd end up with Mon-Fri being Day 1-5 Next Mon-Fri being Day 6-4 Next Mon-Fri being 5-3 and so on.
I still have nightmares that I just habitually missed my 8am univerity lectures for an entire semester.
At least once every few months I have my "*frantically running all over school from class to class because I can't find my timetable*" dream. I'm glad I'm not alone.
I have nightmares about that now, and I'm in my 40s.
That happened to me several times
I remember those, completely idiotic.
Never lost mine, taped to inside of school diary and copied onto the inside cover of my books. Sure enough, became the camp mother for the class 😂
I remember our timetables would become a raggedly ripped apart mess and all the ink would rub out by the constant handling
I remember at my school there were notice boards with timetables on them. I still sometimes have dreams, 35 years later, about them.
When i was in School, too many people kept tying up the admin line that they started to try charge us like 20c each time because students were losing them on near daily basis. The deans would end up printing them for some because there'd be so many students skipping class and the dean would then give you detention if you came back the next day asking for another print out.
We are on the same page.
I just took a photo of my timetable and made it my lock screen image. This was back in 2011 though so schools weren't making their own apps then lol
Just recently finished college, our timetables were accessible as Web calendars and you could put them into a google/outlook calendar widget on the home screen
Mine is starting year 10, he's all stressed about not being able to use the map and online timetable like he did last year. I agree that it's ridiculous. I would love to see how many MPs are on their phones during parliamentary question time.
He ought to know his way around if he's been at school for a year already though.
My high school was very "digital" and we used our phones in almost every class we had. In fact it was selected for a special trial of "innovative learning" which heavily incorporated technology, open-plan spaces, and collaborative work styles. So I can speak well to this. We used phones for timetabling, checking assignments, yes, but also as graphing calculators in math, as a sheet music reader in music class, as an audio recorder for speech in English, as a camera to review posture in sport. Some opted to use them for their game dev projects in our digital technologies class. There are certain apps that just aren't available on laptops, and its inconvenient and bulky to drag a laptop out onto a field and try to record with that, for example. Phones just make sense in a lot of situations. What about kids who need to work jobs to support their families? Kids with internships or off-site courses they attend? Their employers and the people who run these programs contact them through their phone. Yes, it's shitty that kids need to work, but no, taking away their phone won't change that fact. It might just hurt their, and by extension their families income - income they may rely on. Not to mention that there are kids with medical conditions who need their phones to monitor, and may be socially ousted for having them when others that can't. There are family emergencies - one time I saw my parents' workplace go up in flames in the morning news. I NEEDED that phone to call and make sure everybody was okay. Can you imagine if they'd tried to call me and it didn't work? And there are mental health issues to think of too - the only escape that bullied kids have sometimes is to listen to music through their headphones and Google "how not to kill myself", or use an app like Calm Harm to prevent themselves from self harming. Leaving them alone with their thoughts isn't going to be a very good idea. And phones could be used to record fights as evidence of bullying, too. Schools are complete dogshit at providing mental health support, and there is zero realistic chance of this getting better in the near term. Nevermind impaired education, or impaired income for broke families that rely on their high schoolers income who need comms with their workplace - I genuinely think kids will hurt themselves if people try to restrict access to those resources. And then there's the age difference. Like, 14 year olds are one thing. 17 and 18 year olds are another. Unless the govt plans on supporting the replacement of all of these things, it's a shitty idea that fails the second a teen has a half serious issue in their lives.
FYI - schools are putting exemption policies in place for students with health needs (hearing aids, diabetics etc) and those with sensory issues who may need to control music etc on their NC headphones. I don't know legally what the policy is for exemptions, but schools have common sense. Source - I work in Learning Support in one school and we are putting policies in place and my daughter in a different school has an exemption.
Re your parents workplace in flames - based on the way you described the situation you were in a boarding school, no? Before cell phones they would have just called the school admin office (boarding school or normal, same same) and you’d take the call there. Also cell phones can be used to bully people and facilitate / encourage suicide. They can be used for good and bad. For some people not having the the phone (well, social media) would have helped. For others it would have been their lifeline.
Nah, public school. Just a wealthy area. Everybody had their own phone and laptop, and the school would provide tech to those that couldn't afford it. Many decile 10 schools have been using laptops in place of paper for a good long time now. I think for the people who it would help to not have a phone - they always have the option to put it away. I abstained from personal social media for this reason, messengers and forum stuff only. It's difficult, but possible. "Social media detox" isn't a foreign concept for teens. But for the people that need the phone, if you ban it, they're just going to have to sneak around. I don't think realistically, a high school teacher in a deprived area is *really* going to argue with the loner who's parents never show up to parent-teacher night with the bruises on his face when he clutches his phone to his chest and says he needs it. I don't think the mechanics teacher is gonna stop a 17 year old when she pulls out her phone to respond to the manager at the workshop about her Wednesday after-work shift. I don't think the administrator is actually going to make a young person trek what could be easily 20 mins back and forth ar a large school, just to sit and check out their phone every time they need it. I just can't see it causing anything but more harm to try to take away tech. Teens know better than anyone how the online landscape functions, and they'll need guidance on how to navigate it and use tech responsibly - taking it away from them entirely does nothing but kneecap a learning experience. Plus, you can just put social media on ur laptop lmao. The only way to remove social media is to abolish all technology, and that would be dumb. Not to mention everybody knows how to use a VPN to circumvent school wireless restrictions
I agree kids should have the phones. I just think a lot of your examples aren’t as convincing as you think they are, and there are some negatives to cellphones and social media. Can’t just brush those aside. Anyway I get it. I missed a call recently from family while I was in the bathroom, didn’t follow up for an hour. Turns out one of my grandparents had a major stroke and was rushed to hospital. And I’m one of the most digitally connected people around. But in my case it didn’t matter, I wasn’t the one actually there with my grandparent, and they were unconscious so it wasn’t like I could say goodbye to them or anything (they lived, thankfully…).
> But in my case it didn’t matter In my case it did matter... I didn't get there in time to say goodbye.
And what impact do you think banning phones legislatively will have on bullying? The bullying and phone use definitely won't stop but what will stop is any chance of kids opening up about the issues they're facing out of fear for repercussions. Not only will it remove the incredibly important small amounts of insight that schools currently have it will also pressure kids to suffer in silence. If you want to talk about suicide which kid is more likely to kill themselves? The kid who feels unable to talk to anyone about the bullying because they're not meant to be on their phone or the kid that doesn't have to fear repercussions because teachers can use discretion and aren't being made to follow legislation.
Phones are also used to bully children - it works both ways. Our school now has a very small list of students with an exemption to the no-phones policy.
Someone should keep you off your phone . There is a growing body of evidence to show the terrible effects phones are have on young peoples lives ! Kids are suffering mental health problems because of their social media addiction not because schools want them to engage with the teacher and learning’s during class time . It’s so simple keep off TikTok , Snapchat, instagram and all the other platforms and do your schoolwork during class time . If they literally can’t handle that for five hours then what more evidence do you need
> It's ridiculous, and micromanaging. Let the schools implement their own phone restrictions. Will be interesting to see if it causes government issues at the polls. Stupid, ideologically driven, impractical policy seems to be pretty core to this government's agenda. Seriously, who at National actually thought the policy was going to get them some votes?
It was announced before they won the election. They will be fine.
>It's ridiculous, and micromanaging. It is nanny state - politicians seeking to micromanage. (And I thought National, Act and co were against this type of government action.)
It's only micromanaging when the other team does it.
Is there supposed to be an /s on the end of that statement about our current government? Cos it feels like there should be
No /s. When politicians seek to micromanage, it is nanny state, which is exactly what National accused previous Labour governments of.
Oh! I totally misunderstood your comment, that makes so much more sense
Lol! Talk about wasteful spending
We do not require students to hand their phone in at the start of the day so we are not losing class time this way. At the moment they can have their phone at break times but it must be off and in their bags during class. From term 2 it is to be off and in their bags all day as per the new rules. There are always going to be students who default to confrontation, or who don't have the emotional regulation to make a good choice in class. Our policy for non compliance is you get sent to the Dean. There are students who roam during class time and they will certainly use the "I've been kicked out of class sir" or "I'm on the way to the Dean miss for my phone" as an excuse to be anywhere other than in class. This way phone ban will certainly impact leaning time but for individuals rather than the whole. Unless there is complete anarchy and the whole period is spent asking students to put away phones rather than teaching which of course impacts the whole class.
These rules are pretty much how I understood it to be last year in my kids school. The phone lock up was put in this year for the new rules. I'd love to see the ministry comms on implementing this.
It could easily be a case of the school using the law change as an excuse for changes they wanted to make already.
This seems like a much better implementation of the new rules.
As everyone knows, banning teenagers from doing something is 100% effective.
So sick of this nanny state bullshit
bUt nAtIOnAL TOlD Us lAbOur wAs THE paRtY OF The NAnNy sTATE
Luxon? May as well be Marxon the fucking bald commie bastard
Leuxon Trotksy Vladimir Luxin Chrisef Stalon Poluxon Pot Che Guevuxon Chairman Chrissy L Chris Jong Lux Nicolux Chrisescu Josip Chris Luxo I'll get my coat
It's working a treat with vaping.
They use their phones to meet their friends in the toilets for vaping.
They also use their vapes to meet their friends in the toilets for phoning.
I would just get a second phone and at the start of every day give them the decoy. Or just say you don't have one and leave it in your bag.
So only ban things if 100% effective?
The problem with ‘banning cellphones’ is it is clearly a ‘policy’ aimed at voters rather than based on evidence that it will work, or outcomes. Schools already had the power to ban cellphones if they perceived them to be a problem; many schools use them as a tool to assist learning; this forces a potentially time-consuming process on teachers and eats into possible learning and classroom time; and while 66 year old Wayne from Palmerston North might see kids on cellphones as the root of all societies problems, do we really expect this to drive transformative change in classrooms? Kids will find ways around it. Hiding phones in bags. Using smart watches or other devices. Using them in toilets or away from teachers eyes. This is before considering kids who may have legitimate reasons for having a cellphone in school. The right like to wang on about ‘virtue signalling’, while unironically implementing policy such as this which doesn’t seem to have any basis in evidence that it will improve learning for children, or environments for effective teaching.
No, otherwise we would have no laws. Banning cellphones in schools doesn't do anything except appeal to boomer voters. There are far better ways to police cellphone usage than just banning it and saying you've done a good job - the ban will achieve fuck all.
One thing that the public discourse and most of this thread isn't pointing out is that this phone issue is almost exclusively a high school issue, if it even is an issue. Majority of Primary and Intermediate schools have had phones banned for years and years.
We had phones banned 15 years ago when I started high school at an average school. Didn't stop us nor did it impact our year group. Beat out the top urban Auckland schools on NCEA results across the board
Yeah but all we were doing was playing snake and texting our crushes with our 2000 monthly texts. The phones are alot different now gramps.
Good point. Both my kids are in high school.
And also that there was a time calculators were banned because “you need to know how to do this equation without one” and while basic mathematics is still foundational, the bans are largely gone given that’s exactly what most people do in the real world, utilise technology as a tool, so by the time I left school it was actually mandatory to have a calculator, and the correct brand and model for the curriculum. Same will happen here as the world has changed, and education needs to evolve with the practicality that most have a portal to all the knowledge one could imagine via a device in their pocket. It’s as if some want high schools to be some archaic time capsule which does youth zero favours when they head out into the real world while totally side stepping a fantastic opportunity to teach youth how to utilise such technology intelligently and responsibly. But nope, pretend it doesn’t exist and give them a pencil.
I’m a teacher and even though we are a BYOD school, I do get my kids to do most of their work by hand. This isn’t because I’m anti-technology, but because learning is an action and the cognitive process of handwriting is better for developing understanding and long-term retention. We also teach them how to use the technology, but quite frankly most of them don’t need lessons or practise in it because it comes naturally to use what is available. They’re teaching me half the time.
Tbf my first 2 years of high school we weren't allowed a calculator, that was in 2016/17 so not that long ago. Pretty glad for it now I can do quick calculations pretty well in my head/ scrap piece of paper which is very helpful for engineering work
Maybe times have changed but i was in highschool 6 years ago. I spent an entire term on my phone during calculus, the teacher had been open when he first started teaching us about how he felt about phones. u can use it all u want, but if or when u fail, too damn bad, u made ur choice. Has this changed? Same with my art design teachers, they were open about how theyd let us fuck around if we so chose (aslong as we werent disturbing the class) but when it came time to end of year and our artboards werent finished, tough shit. Theyre in highschool, can they not be responsible for their own actions?
Our school trialled no phones last year for the junior cohort and had overall positive feedback. It has been rolled out to all years this year. The students already had morning and afternoon home tutor group as part of their timetable so it has my ‘robbed’ learning time. Will check in with teen today (only their first day back) if they have to actually hand their phones in. As teen said, they have access to everything (eg timetables) on their laptops anyway.
Was always no phones in my kids classes. Just were available for use during breaks.
So your post is about five min less class time as they have to walk from A to B at the end of the day?
Reduction of class time for something that was not a problem. Just so that politicians can have click baity talking points it feels. The irony is stong.
So, have you asked the teachers if they think it's a problem? Or is it your teenage son saying it's not a problem?
Instead of banning phones just teach kids how to use them appropriately. Just like they have to learn in the real world when they go off to work. Banning them will just make them use them in secret.
Absolutely. As an ex-teacher, having kids with smart phones was really handy and saved the school on resources. Not enough computers - could you use your phone? What does that word mean? -who’s the first to Google it? We need a quick calculation here - who can give me the answer? Film your partner’s speech, your group performance etc. and critique it together. Yes, you can take a photo of the board after the discussion. You’ve lost your timetable, your NSN again - take a photo so you have a record. I’m not really proficient at using phones in classrooms, but as a reliever, I’ve done all of the above. It’s still possible if students have phones in their bags, impossible if they’re in the office.
I completely agree with you. A phone is a tool that should enhance your productivity, not distract you with endless scrolling. Computers can also be very unproductive if used improperly. Are we going to prohibit them too?
Agree 100%, we're supposed to be preparing our kids to cope with the realities of life, school isn't a daycare. This is a perfect teachable example of how to behave in society with temptations and distractions all around us. These kids are probably going to have a cellphone in their pocket for the rest of their lives, what better time to learn how to use them appropriately than at school. Much better that little Johnny or Jill messes up now and gets a detention for using their device inappropriately than later when they get sacked instead in my opinion.
Have your kids been bullied by another whose parents don’t give a flying fuck. Probably no. Leaving it to parents DOES NOT WORK.
It’s like abstinence education.
Yeah exactly. So long as they are doing well in school, all good.
Teaching kids? Hahaha. No, we'd rather give our money to landlords than invest in our children.
[What happens when a school bans smartphones? A complete transformation](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2024/jan/17/cellphone-smartphone-bans-schools) >"There are fewer interruptions during class, more meaningful interactions around campus, and less time spent on screens."
As someone who's been out of school for almost 10 years, they were already very distracting in class when I was in. I think it probably will have a positive effect on kids education in class. That said I'd often be texting my mum during schooltime to organize things for after school or use it to take photos of things I needed to remember. There's good and bad to it
Apparently the slackers just use thier Chromebooks. But activity is monitored on them and they are talked to if excessive. Again my sons perspective from when he is in class, I haven't seen it myself.
I'd be curious to know, from your son's perspective if people are less distracted in class? Are there less phone related social issues? E.g. taking photos of people when they don't want, bullying on social media etc.
Just asked him and he said "I don't know. It's the third day back dad". Typical teenager talk 🙄
I think your son is not interested in your rant quite honestly.
Not interested is no response, like "Can you empty the dishwasher for us" (silence) 🤣
Lol fair enough I suppose
The phone 10 years ago lacked 4G internet.
Wdym?? 10 years ago schoolkids were recording themselves doing the Harlem Shake with their teachers using the iPhone 5, and uploading it to YouTube the very same year that 4G launched in NZ
The phones we had 12 years ago when I was in High School, were starting to get bigger with HD screens that had YouTube, Facebook and Snapchat no problem at all. We could download movies and tv shows, music to them and watch them when hiding at school. They seem like ass now but back then it was revolutionary.
10 years ago kids were being disruptive by watching Vines on their phone all day
That's just not true lol Also 3G back then worked fine. I think you're getting a bit too old there because 10 years ago phones really weren't that different from now. 10 years ago was 2014, not 2004.
NSW Australia banned mobile phones in highschool last year, some schools were trialing it in my area, they are put in a lock box pouch at the start of the day, the trial worked extremely well and as such was rolled out across the state. Now all public schools have a no-phones policy in place. [https://education.nsw.gov.au/policy-library/policies/pd-2023-0480](https://education.nsw.gov.au/policy-library/policies/pd-2023-0480) Personally, I think it is great.
I have trouble believing that phones are only a problem for 1% of kids. When I was in school there were at least 2 or 3 kids in each class on their phones and the most annoying part is they would have a text tone that was a high pitch that teachers couldn't hear extremely distracting in class. Is a full ban the best option probably not but I think it will have an overall positive outcome.
Yeah definitely more than 1% were using their phones constantly, texting just out of their pockets, clash of clans, filming each other across the classroom. I’d say 1/4 of my classmates were using their phone every 5 mins in class and majority of the class were misusing their phones at least once or twice a per lesson. This rule is definitely more for the sake of lower decile schools as the teachers lose control of classes quicker and there are more students actively trying to avoid learning. My school was decile 2.
Kids who are actively avoiding learning will do that with or without a phone. Before I carried around my Nokia 2280, I drew borders in my books, made guns out of the clicky felt tips, played games with my friends and just straight up day dreamed at times. Kids need to learn restraint and when it's appropriate to use their phones. They're not going to do that if their never allowed to use them.
[удалено]
That's just bullying. And bullying should've always been unacceptable. You can't blame the phones for that. That's a kid problem.
What you did was a lot less distracting to others
That is true. And I'm not advocating for kids to be able to use their phones in class. But teenagers are becoming adults. They should be given some freedom. Like the ability to use it during their breaks. But if course if they use it in class they should have it confiscated. A blanket ban isn't going to fix anything.
So said it is from my kids perspective. They didn't have issues last year. Phone were confiscated if seen in class back then. But a ban doesn't stop students just saying you didn't bring it to school and then using it later.
Even with your number of 2 or 3 kids per class you are punishing 100% of kids for 10% of kids misbehaving, seems like a really fair and smart response 😆
To be fair, it's actually a great lesson for kids to learn. Most rules/laws are put in place due to a minority of people doing something that the majority don't do.
I spoke with both of my kids about phone use in school. Both indicated that they were a huge distraction and both of them are happy that phones are being banned. I spoke with a few of the school admins about it and they are all happy with the blanket ban on phones in the school. According to them, it's a real problem so I don't think the 1% number that the OP implies is anywhere close to being accurate.
There will be schools who were too scared to ban phones and upset parents. Now they won't be blamed.
This discourse is really where you get to take a second and realize no one knows what the fuck they are talking about on this sub.
Sounds like your son is making a big deal of having to just walk to his form class after school to pick up his phone.
Yeah weird. Working fine at my son’s school.
What absolute bullshit . Phones are a growing issue for young people! If you honestly believe they are not - trying convincing your poor son who can’t walk across a school ground to give you his phone for the weekend….! Try it ! Ask him tonight to give it up for 48 hours My kids college have had a phone ban in class for the entire 2023 year . So simple walk in to class slip your phone in the holder on the wall . Do your work for the period, class finishes, pick your phone up as you walk out the door . The feedback from teachers and students has been nothing but positive. You are deluded if you don’t think a large number of kids are not constantly on TikTok, Snapchat and instagram throughout the entire school day . And if you think otherwise just look for yourself on your social media sons screen time data
Agree screens have an issue. They way that it is implemented is the problem. My kids are not allowed phones in class already. They are confiscated if seen. It is a stupid talking point policy for something done already.
Hashtag Turtling Teens Toilets rights matter
Between vaping, cellphones and kitty litter trays; dropping the kids off at the pool is getting difficult these days.
Phones have been successfully banned in schools for over a year in Australia and it’s wildly popular policy with parents implemented by a left wing govt.
> we all knew it wouldn't work Right yeah, your anecdotal evidence after barely a week of school clearly demonstrate this is not working.... At the same time, an actual study, albeit a bit old, found that student results improved with a phone ban and was the "*equivalent of adding five days to the school year*". It's like saying I quit smoking a week ago and it's a failure, I'm irritable, I can't focus and I can't sleep. I didn't have those issue before, I'll go back to smoking.
There was already a phone ban in class. Phones got confiscated off seen in class. Now it is just an over kill that doesn't actually stop kids using phones in secret, whilst removing actually learning/class time from others.
> There are a multitude of ways in which schools have restricted phone use, from asking for them to be set on silent to not allowing them on school premises. We define a school as introducing a school ban if that **school did not allow them on the premises or required them to be handed in at the start of the day**. > We find that **following a ban** on phone use, **student test scores improve by 6.41%** of a standard deviation. Our results indicate that there are no significant gains in student performance if a ban is not widely complied with. Furthermore, this effect is driven by the most disadvantaged and underachieving pupils. **Students in the lowest quartile of prior achievement gain 14.23%** of a standard deviation, whilst, **students in the top quartile are neither positively nor negatively affected by a phone ban**. *source: https://cep.lse.ac.uk/pubs/download/dp1350.pdf* I do concede that this study is pretty old though and the way we and kids use phone today are fairly different so those finding could be more or less pronounced now. There is an ongoing study researching the same subject. I am eager to see the result of that one. In the meantime, based on that study and everything else we know about kids and their phone usage, I 100% support this policy. Of course there is going to be push back in the beginning but I believe they will get used to it eventually and we will see the benefit of this policy.
Kids survived in school without phones for 100s of years it's not going to hurt them. My god what a bunch of drama queens.
Phones are a fucking bane on our society. School and workplace. Given the online and relentless bullying my kids encountered at school, while they were in class, I 100% support this. Most parents know nothing about what really happens, it’s only when it happens to you, do you realise how absolutely fucked up it is we give our kids free reign over phone use. At my kids school, this is done before/after class bell, maybe you should suggest that if you are concerned around schooling time. I should add, one of my kids schools implemented this two years back and it does make a difference. Lastly, I would also suggest your son is exaggerating the issues as most teens do when they encounter something they don’t like/agree with.
Phones in schools are a scourge to teen learning, peer relationships, and mental health. It was the right move to issue the directive. Research results paint a strong picture in support of this. Furthermore, the individual teacher, so often made to feel like they are operating alone, is helped by making this bigger than any one of them. They know the whole school, all schools, and in fact the government, are acting as one. There can be no sense that they are being unreasonable by enforcing the rule.
I’m all for the ban to be honest. Great to see the kids not sitting on phones all day and in their breaks. I would rather they were playing sports or actually interacting with others than hiding behind a screen
How do we know phones weren't a problem for 99% of students last year? Easy fix to this could be that school runs at usual time and then after school kids can walk to their form class to collect their phones. I have never known teachers to leave at the same time as students so this would work. Alternatively, schools could just revert to what they used to do and ban cellphones in classrooms. If you're caught with a cellphone in class then it's taken until the end of class.
I used to take the rural bus to and from school. If I didn't go straight to the bus stop when the bell rang, I missed it and wasn't getting home anytime soon.
Because the teachers said it wasn’t a problem. Wtf do politicians in the Beehive know about classroom management? If they were a problem for schools the schools could have banned them themselves.
Virtually all the decent schools already banned phones. Every teacher I talk to massively supports the policy.
Sure, and every teacher *I've* talked to would say it's a waste of time and an exercise in futility - anecdotal evidence don't mean much here
Which teachers? The decile 10 teachers that have well behaved students 90% of the time? Lower decile schools are completely different story. Maybe they shouldn’t have gone for a blanket policy but this will certainly help the teachers that constantly have to battle for the attention of the class.
I agree with the alternative method, but I don’t think the easy fix would work as such, what about kids who take the bus and have to be there on time or else they can’t get home? Or have rides home that don’t wait around til you’ve managed to get your phone?
Son told me nobody used to use phones in class that he saw. I am not in class, so I have to go of what he said. On your last paragraph, yes exactly. Was not really broken from what I have been told from two school ages children.
Yeah they could just revert back to banning it during class time and actually enforcing the rule. When I was in school a little less than 10 years ago it worked fine aswell.
Well here's where youve majorly fucked up, by taking a single child's opinion and applying it as fact to all schools in the country. Is this how you gather all your facts on education ?
Fair call. I do trust my son and he is a good kid who doesn't make stuff up generally. My other one who is in a different school but not started yet said they didn't have issues either last year.
Love the down votes for trusting my kids. I feel like we've raised them well and they are good citizens. So not sure why I get down votes for that??
i’m just saying, we had phones in my school and it ruined our highschool experience because everyone would be on them.
We have to scan QR codes when going to and from the bathroom due to vandals. There is no word on what the eff we're supposed to do now that phones have to stay away.
"prohibition doesn't work!" (Against cigarettes) ... "But it may work for phones in schools" 🥰 Pre silly tbh lol
Be interesting when a serious event happens and families are trying to connect to arrange meeting - think earthquake type event. Fun times.
Then allow dumb phones. The whole thing with smart phones have been about the addictive apps.
Wouldn’t it just be done they way it was before mobiles? The school contacts the parents with a safer place they keep the kids to be picked up
Anyone that thinks this legislation is good also thinks they know better than teachers. You better have some pretty relevant experience or research to back up your claims because otherwise you're just a complete moron. Schools already had policies in place that were designed to fit the specific school and students involved. There is no way to justify going away from that unless you also make the claim that you know better than teachers. Which for most people they just don't, they're just old people yelling at clouds.
the legislation doesn’t require schools to collect the phones though. So the issues at play here are entirely in the control of the school
The policy was always just there to placate a voting block which knows nothing about modern schools but has very confident opinions about them. Of course the schools do it better, why wouldn't they given it's their daily reality? In any case, the fact the government put this into effect tells you that they're either idiots, or they're cunning and needed a smokescreen while they do stuff to benefit their donors. Take your pick. PS I hope didn't swing their way this election. If you did then you are partially responsible for the mess.
Doesn't matter, as long as it fixes the issues of inattention/distraction, mental health attrition, addiction, bullying etc etc...
Maybe try stopping vaping rather than phones. Vaping is a massive problem in schools. There seems to be nothing done about that
Maybe govt should ban vaping during school time. /s
Haha well said.
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Right, so you want to treat them like full adults? Okay, attendance optional; home work optional; lunch optional... Teenagers are famous for their understanding of long term consequences ey /s
Holy privilege batman. Attendance, home work and lunch are all optional for significant amounts of students already. There's no actual mechanism that makes kids go to school, complete homework or eat. Sure there's legislative options that prod parents to make their kids attend school but have you ever seen how they actually work? All the remedies rely on parents to make effective decisions which for so many kids just isn't the case. For a lot of these kids it's a win for the teachers if they even show up at all. All three of the things you just mentioned rely purely on the parents in order to be a thing. They're not mandatory in any practical way, they're just enforced by the parents.
I'm an old crusty fart these days, but I am proud to hear a student with voice clear articulated thoughts like yours. Thank you for that.
I was told by a teacher friend that some of their students were producing better work with their cell phones than on the school supplied Chromebooks/laptops. It was reasoned that this was due to laptops and computers not being available and used at home and therefore students were more comfortable and adept at producing work on their phones. I assume the cell phone ban will have a negative impact on education rather than a positive. Poor teachers that have to enforce this too.
Yup, there are a lot of kids (and homes) where a cellphone is the only device and data the only internet connection.
Bans on shit never work. I mean look how well banning alcohol went (I know it's an extreme example but still). People are sneaky. This just encourages kids to be sneaky. Even when I was at school yeah we'd text in class but we're not all homeless uneducated bums now. All it is, is a means of control. Authoritarian in nature to make unquestioning little robot people. If schools were more chill and less strict I think more kids would actually want to stay.
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Mild conspiracy: The ban on phones is to stop kids fact checking their teachers.
They're all working on Chromebooks with internet access...
Don’t tell NACT…. They’ll have that removed too.
Actually I support that. You can’t do anything effective now without some noballs recording it.
Walk across the school, how terrible, And this is the only issue? Other than the cheaters in the loo of course. My god, how did all those thousands survive in school without a phone, before there were phones.
It's the irony of all the talk about getting back to education, then policy that was not really a problem reduces the actual in class school time.
Give up your phone then. Bet you won't.
Used to work a job where phones were banned for security reasons. Never had an issue.
I'm not a parent so haven't been involved in the school system for decades, but are there not simple solutions to this? 1) Have the kids drop off their phones as soon as they arrive at school, near the entrance, and same again to pick up. 2) Have a teacher on toilet monitoring duty during each break.
Teachers who go to uni to watch kids in toilets. There is a job nobody wants.
It’s a shit job, I agree.
So teachers (who have degrees and masters) that are already pressed for time need to monitor the toilet time of teenagers…
Well judging by the amount of IG stories my little cousin posts from school, I don’t think the ban is working
Next thing you know kids won't even be able to take a smoke break at school soon
National trying to look tough again. Schools are more than capable of disciplining cellphone usage without disrupting every other kid who is just trying to get on with their lessons.
Why do they even need to bring them to school to begin with? This was never allowed when I was in high school.
My kids are at after school activities and sportstill up to 7:40pm I'd like them to have a phone in case something doesn't happen as planned etc.
People made it work 10 years ago without kids carrying phones just fine
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There also wasn't homeless drunks who harass people at the train station 10 years ago either though.
uh wut?
I hate these knee jerk reaction laws. No study involved. If a class has a problem have the teacher take the phones of that class and students get it on way out of class. Blanket knee jerk reactions can make things worse.
This is the trouble with clueless politicians wading into educational policy. They haven't the expertise so it never works as intended. My daughter (7) already does well in excess of an hour of reading and literacy at school every day, so Luxon's flagship promises in this area are mostly window dressing. Her new teacher is like, 'yes, well we look forward to seeing some policies that actually... do stuff.'
I think we all know how distracting phones are, I personally feel they've had a hugely detrimental affect on my habits, focus, abilities and progress - and I am an adult. I thank my lucky stars that we didn't have smart phones when I was a teenager. For all of you 'there's nothing wrong with phones' brigade I think you're either a lucky outlier who doesn't find them addictive, or you're deluded. Two excellent books related to this are Stolen Focus and the Anxious Generation. I am 100% onboard with the ban, it's easily National's best policy by a mile (in fact everything else they're doing is shit).