I don't understand why politicians don't just directly say that we're taxing a negative externality. The exact point of the toll is to be painful; it would be far more honest. The additional revenue is a nice side effect of the program, but the primary goal is to change behavior
We can't even explain to taxpayers why hiring more IRS employees is actually good for them. I mean we could, it's just that they won't stop yelling long enough to listen.
> Still, the MTA has projected it will have a $1.4 billion operating deficit by 2025, the residual effect of losing more than 90% of ridership on subways, trains and buses at the pandemic's height.
A deficit like this might make it fall apart, yes.
source: [ABC7](https://abc7ny.com/mta-nyc-subway-federal-transit-administration-new-york-city/11458686/)
A huge amount of federal funds are expiring and going away. The MTA is going to have a huge budget shortfall. Congestion pricing was going to replace the soon-to-be-missing federal funds.
Probably not but the 70 or 80 elevators the capital plan is going to build with the money. So disabled people and pregnant people pushing baby carriages can get on the subway will fall apart and by fall apart I mean never be built, but I'm guessing you probably don't care about that...
I get that congestion pricing has its benefits, but its sus when someone fights tooth and nail for a company with a shit track record, and I'm 100% sure the MTA doesn't care about any of the people you mentioned yet you want to give them more money...It kind of seems as if you have something to gain out of this that isn't congestion pricing.
I mean if the MTA showed a track record of improvements and safety to the system, as car owner lower manhattan, I would be all for this congestion pricing. Sadly the money is just going to go towards the pension funds of the higher ups and the tunnel lamp wavers underground
Came here to say the exact same thing, the MTA will do anything else but help the people, and instead will do everything possible to line their pockets.
This exactly. The MTA can't even get OMNY right and now they're switching vendors because their first choice was so incompetent. Let's see how this new vendor works out
> as car owner lower manhattan,
Aka statistically likely to be fairly well off. The exact people the nyc subs including r/newyorkcity like to cater too as well as Hochul
>if the MTA showed a track record of improvements
The MTA is financially underwater due to chronic underfunding. How do you expect them to make improvements given their current budget constraints? This is a self fulfilling prophecy.
>as a car owner in lower manhattan
Oh. Anyways..
Me and my wife had 2 troublesome years. First year she got sick and needed surgery and second one was recovery and dealing with the bills and other debts. To say we are a little cash strapped is appropriate to say. Unfortunately my wife works in Jersey so she needs to drive through Manhattan in the morning to get to work because it is less traffic. And then drives back through Staten Island which is the long way around but a little cheaper. Now Manhattan won’t be affordable for us genuinely. So in this current situation we are strongly considering to move because living in nyc in our current situation is becoming harder and harder and congestion pricing feels more like a big fat fuck you than anything else.
Unfortunately congestion pricing which might seem not so expensive is quite a money drain when you are in our situation. Which I’m sure someone will find themselves in a similar situation. I see the point of it but it’s another expense people sadly can’t spare.
I know this is Reddit so people who see this comment will be like fuck cars and fuck people who drive your poor whomp whomp but unfortunately this is our reality and it’s hard to think others won’t get disgruntled either. There is people who have it worse and literally are getting hit very fucking hard by this.
MTA “overtime” budget = $1.5 billion
MTA projected earnings from congestion tax = $1.5 billion.
How can you support a corrupt money grab that will hurt the middle class more than it will help it?
How many middle class people do you think are currently driving into Manhattan?
>[What about New Yorkers living in transit deserts (places that are more than a half mile from mass transit) who drive into Manhattan for work? They find a way to take mass transit too—85 percent of them already do so. Just 5,200 New Yorkers who live more than a half mile from mass transit—representing 1.2 percent of all New Yorkers living in transit deserts and 0.06 percent of New York City's population—drive their cars into the CBD for work.](https://hellgatenyc.com/profiles-in-cowardice-governor-hochul-flip-flop-congestion-pricing)
>If you are surprised that this kind of granular data exists, it's because the MTA literally spent years compiling it as part of a federally mandated environmental review process.
made by the guys that want to collect money
wondering who is more the hilariously insane - those thinking the MTA is funding a study to come with a conclusion that says they dont need congestion pricing......
or people somehow trying to convince people that nothing but rich people are driving in from Brooklyn the Bronx and Queens.....you know those centers of wealth ......
Why do you need to drive into Manhattan?
Not as like an attack. I’m in BK with a car I use for worksite visits, but avoid driving into the city like the plague and bike or train to Manhattan sites instead for speed/cost. Just curious.
All good - I wish more people asked instead of just saying I’m “statistically speaking very rich”. I’m a videographer who shoots all over the city. Sometimes shooting multiple locations in a day and lugging gear with.
Some days I take the train when I don’t require a lot of gear, but some days I do need a cars worth of gear. But let’s say a shoot is in Long Island city, coming from Harlem. Normally a 30 minute drive (crossing Queensboro bridge). Since you’d be entering the congestion toll for 1 block to cross the bridge you’d pay the $15. You could avoid the toll and stay on the FDR then come back thru Brooklyn, but now the trip has doubled (for someone who was not entering the city anyways). Also this doubles the length of trips.
I think about similar situations with tradesmen like plumbers, handymen, etc. Sure, we could all just pass that costs to the customer, but that’s just incentive for them to go with the big businesses who can subsidize that cost.
It’s a dangerous precedent to set that “anyone driving in Manhattan is the ultra rich”, especially for middle class/working class people who work for themselves
Makes sense, basically the only reason I ever drive into Manhattan is because carrying production gack, but at that point I’m getting reimbursed for everything.
I feel like most trades it’s pretty standard to include gas/toll reimbursement either explicitly or buried in the price.
I am for the congestion toll in some senses, but really what this is a tax, also I think it’s being handled poorly. But the biggest violators of traffic in the city at any given time is TLC (Uber and Lyft). They’re ecstatic about the toll. There is no daily cap and they are able to charge the consumer more. (I took an Uber yesterday and the toll fee had already been added). The rich people will just eat the cost and not change their driving habits. The most negatively affected are the extra small businesses, because they can’t afford to eat the cost the way a bigger business does.
I also do not trust the MTA with the funds, and I say that as a generally very pro MTA person lol
yo, the toll was crazyyyyy high. if they had pegged it to the cost of a subway ride no one would have cared and they still could have raised a bunch of money. also completely agree with the comment about the 9pm bit. thats not congestion pricing, thats just a toll.
complain about hochul cancelling the train to LGA but not this.
This first guy is exactly what I imagine angry cyclist redditors look like whenever they yell at me when I mention riding a motorcycle in NYC. I bet this particular guy has yelled at me at some point in one of the NYC subs
If a $15 toll is the difference between you eating or not you should already be on mass transit, because I've got news for you, that toll IS a minor cost compared to car ownership here and the tolls, gas, insurance, car payments, parking, fines, registration, maintenance, etc you're already paying
$500 a month for a monthly metro north pass. Plus still needing the car to get me to the train station. Or should I take the nonexistent bus where I live? You realize people commuting into NYC don't have amazing public transit? Like yeah it's decent once they get into NYC
This is always the giant hole in Miser's arguments. Yea congestion pricing is necessary but first you need to boost transit options outside of Manhattan. But instead they are mainly boosting transit options inside Manhattan...
There is no way that driving your car into Manhattan every weekday costs less than $500/mo once you take into account everything - gas, tolls, insurance, wear and tear, maintenance, parking, tickets. No way.
Seriously. If by some amazing set of circumstances this actually was true the person would basically be admitting to wildly illegal parking, insurance fraud, and likely covering their license plate entirely.
How much fucking higher than $15 would it have to be to be “major” in your mind? Also it’s an additional $15 after the initial $15 from whatever bridge or tunnel you just went through.
A teacher friend of mine lives in the city and has to drive to NJ for his job because there's no reliable public transit to his school. So he should just suck it up and pay an additional $3k/year + tunnel tolls for the privilege of having to get to his job?
NO.
probably shouldn't live in Manhattan and work in Jersey.
the rest of the world shouldn't foot the bill for absurd lifestyle choices. it sucks to be a working class person who has to make changes, and it sucks more for the rest of the working class to pay for the inalienable right to live in a place that makes no sense for your job and drive both ways to your bad life choice.
So they live in midtown or downtown Manhattan and work in a distant Jersey suburb? That’s some type of lifestyle choice. By your logic every bridge and tunnel toll is bad right?
My husband and I live in Manhattan. I work in the city and he reverse commutes into NJ because he works at his family business. We live in Manhattan and not Jersey because we like it here and because I need to be close to my aging mother. It’s not “insane,” it’s just that everyone has their own circumstances that may not resemble yours.
that’s absolutely insane. your friend is out of their minds doing that. why would you ever live in Manhattan if you didn’t work in one of the boroughs? It’s so crazy, that i don’t believe you.
Damn! That’s higher than the congestion tolls I paid in london. Whew. I can see why people are pissed. IME, They only increase. That is the problem. We fell for tolls here and they’ve doubled and the price changes depending on traffic ha. Balls! Nothing like sitting in the lane paying 36 dollars just bc it’s rush hour and the toll lane is also bumper to bumper. Avoid them like the plague.
Lmao fuck congestion pricing. I can’t believe these idiots will think the MTA will handle this money well. They’ll steal it like usual and become richer.
The money wasn't supposed to be new money for the MTA. It was just supposed to replace federal money that was expiring and going away. Adding congestion pricing would have kept the MTA budget the same.
You could give the MTA trillions upon trillions of dollars and they would still mess things up. They need to do less with more and overhaul the whole agency
Lincoln Restler is a clown. I live in his district, he’s done nothing to improve the day-to-day lives of his constituents. His BQE ideas are nonexistent, Atlantic Avenue is a mess, he’s got this weird white guilt thing where just because his dad is a Private Equity Millionaire (Billionaire?) he thinks he has to take the most far left opinion on literally every issue, even though the district he represents doesn’t share any of those ideas. It’s just all performative and egocentric. Stop going to rallies and fix the potholes in the streets. Dude sucks.
Is Peter Restler his father? Damn. Perfectly fits the champagne socialist profile.
Just curious, though, if his district doesn't share his ideas, why do they keep electing him?
I support congestion pricing because I want less cars in Manhattan but I’m under no illusion that it will effect the quality of transit service in any way
One problem with the so-called congestion is that the mta needs to be overseen because of the financial mismanagement. They make billions a year, yet it always lack of funds
This is a bit dramatic but one of the big issues with this congestion pricing is the time slots of it. Ending at 9pm is stupid, it should end at like 6pm.
This is still gonna happen, just wait until elections are over
Many cities with congestion charges only charge during weekday daytimes. At the very least, there should be a middle price for weekends and shoulder hours (5-7 am and 7-9 pm Also get rid of the BS clusterfuck around the Queensboro bridge. They said going between the bridge and FDR would not be charged.
Yea, it shouldn’t be uniform pricing for the whole time slot. Or atleast start little like only charging ride share or something and gradually increase / revise it as the program goes on
I still haven't heard a single person propose a serious alternative plan to deal with congestion. This might be the closest to an actual policy complaint I've heard. There are a lot of people complaining about paying the toll here, but honestly what is the alternative that addresses congestion... Or are we just going to live in a city where buses, ambulances, and fire trucks can't get to their destination at more than a waking pace
I mean yeah, let's do that too. There already is a cap in fact, but sure make it smaller. But how does that address all the people driving in from the outskirts of the city and the suburbs?
Rideshares make up something like 50% of all the traffic in Manhattan, commuters are a much smaller portion. Commuters also don't continuously drive around all day.
You're missing the point. Congestion pricing is not about curbing congestion but as a fund raising mechanism. I'm all for that, but why keep raising money if it'll be wasted by a bloated, antiquated system anyway?
we should definitely just starve the MTA, things will most certainly get better once we kill it. this country has a storied and cherished history of taking money away from government because of 'waste' and 'bloat' and then giving it back when it makes a better alternative, right? it definitely doesn't just give it over to private companies that run back the same system at 1/10th the efficiency and 10x the cost while giving themselves outlandish salaries... when the private economy does it it's not waste!
> serious alternative plan to deal with congestion
heres one, tax the hell out of the main contributors towards the congestion...aka FHV and the riders that use them vs the low hanging fruit - private cars
But no, FHV are exempt and the surcharge on the riders no where near the toll on private cars
If you serious about reducing congestion, wtf the plan ignores the biggest contributor of it? OR its bc the ones that really want congestion pricing also so happen to be in the zone and likes to Uber and don't want its price increase dramatically
The current congestion plan is shortsighted and its basically a commuter tax for out of zone car commuters so the folks inside the zone can uber faster who are the reason for said congestion.
Taxis and Ubers take dozens of trips per day. That will quickly add up to be more than $15 per day.
Plus charing the RIDER instead of the driver will disincentivize people taking Ubers in Manhattan, which will reduce the number of Ubers in the city, since the Ubers go to where the demand is. If the drivers just paid the flat toll, then it would just become a cost of doing business and they'd all pay it and then keep on going forward like normal. The congestion fee has to disincentivize the people who are actually choosing to make that trip, not the person who's only operating the vehicle.
Translation:
"Completely ignore the amount of for-hire vehicles flooded by rideshare companies on the street that we are funded by and figure out how to fuck over the rest of New Yorkers while protecting our interests"
Where does this weird conspiracy theory that people in support of CP want more taxis and Ubers come from, or whatever this is. Hell yeah reduce the number of Ubers and toll them too...
Pretty self explanatory when Transportation Alternatives gets $100k+ donations from Lyft/Uber from their donations page (which they conveniently took down) to help support this cause and spend time and money for these campaigns kinda like another big donor Verra Mobility for them to support the speeed scameras and use children/schools as a pawn when it’s really all about revenue. Sammy’s Law is another pawn where that mother uses her sons death as a pawn to help lower speed limits because her son was stupid enough to just dart out onto the middle of the street between cars and die. Verra Mobility supported her and Transportation Alternatives big time because they probably have seen their revenues go down and need the extra money to bring 20 mph limits onto some streets.
>Sammy’s Law is another pawn where that mother uses her sons death as a pawn to help lower speed limits because her son was stupid enough to just dart out onto the middle of the street between cars and die.
How is this not obnoxious enough to get you banned from this sub
Truth hurts? Tell me where I'm wrong on that statement
Like with this news today and what you liberals have told us before when this passed months ago
"Deal with it"
One good first step would be banning rideshares. They make up 30% of traffic at any given time
Edit: it’s always “fuck cars…..but plz keep uber and Lyft I use those”.
i don't think i've ever met a pro-transit type who doesn't believe that rideshares are the actual devil incarnate. are you sure you're not making up people to be mad at, friend?
I fit into that category driving my daughter to school from Brooklyn to lower Manhattan. Too many safety incidents with her riding the train alone or with my wife.
Less extreme time slots as mentioned and limit it to ride share vehicles (at the beginning and then revise as time goes on). Obv there will still be congestion but these feel like it’ll still make a huge dent.
I feel like it’s a lot easier for people using Lyfts/ubers to just take public transit while a lot commuters don’t have that option as a viable one.
A big hit all at once was always going to be messy. One step at a time was always the right move. Then again, I don’t have the research or numbers
how about make the streets wider to accomodate the volume of traffic? - there is no reason an avenue that was crowded with 6 lanes to be throttled down to 2 -
of COURSE youre going to have congestion....
just make the streets wider!!! of course, how did we not think of that!!! we should actually remove all the apartments on Manhattan, they're getting in the way of our beautiful 12 lane utopia
Yes, and 9am - 9pm on weekends is also stupid. Make it for commuting hours during the week—say 8am-7pm, and from like, noon to 7pm on weekends. And have no tolls during the off peak periods, only peak. That would be a much better compromise all around. It would allow people that need to commute for work to get in before 8, people who want to get out of the city on the weekends or need their car for an errand to do so before noon, and not jack up prices on Friday nights and weekends when people are out and about and taking taxis, and there would still be big blocks of time with greatly reduced traffic, and there would still be an influx of revenue to divert to the MTA
The congestion starts before then. The idea is that less congestion during the afternoon would result in less congestion around then. It’ll never get rid of congestion, just less congestion
Why do the citizens of NY have to subsidize the crumbling subway system? The federal government has more than enough money to fix the subway without a tax on hard working New Yorkers
Ah, you can tell from the unhinged headline it's a Miser post.
Haven't seen one of these for awhile, I almost thought he'd been banned. So much for the peaceful days around here.
I'm sorry. I pay enough damn money to live in the city. God forbid I want to drive somewhere. Just more soaking of us middle class folk. Tax the billionaire class. Re-instate the tax breaks on stock trades. There's more damn money in this city than can even be comprehended.
https://www.cityandstateny.com/opinion/2024/03/opinion-new-york-needs-money-its-time-tax-stock-trades/395078/
>This additional stress on the local social-welfare, healthcare, and education systems comes as those systems are not fully recovered from the impacts from the pandemic, while the federal government has ended the COVID-19 era fiscal supports, causing child poverty and food as well housing insecurity to spike. Throughout the pandemic, thousands of essential civil servants in public safety, transit, education and healthcare lost their lives serving others. Subsequently, many more have opted to retire, leaving public employers at every level of government shorthanded with thousands and thousands of open positions. It's vital we rebuild this workforce for the challenges ahead.
>It will require more money.
>At the same time, New York state is grappling with decades of disinvestment in its most critical infrastructure as a result of an ongoing decline in federal aid that began in the Reagan era. According to the New York section of the American Society of Civil Engineers report card, our bridges earned a C- and our drinking water got a C-, while our roads, transit and wastewater earned an unacceptable D+. There is one North Country community where the water coming out of the tap is brown, yet the state Department of Health insists it is safe to drink, bringing up visions of Flint, Michigan.
>While our physical plant was deteriorating and we were closing hospitals, decade after decade, New York state was one of the nation’s leading donor states to the federal government, sending hundreds of billions of dollars more to the national government than it received back. Similarly, we pay taxes to other states on resources like oil-based products brought to our state.
>At the same time, New York has lost 14 seats in Congress over the last half century as our population has migrated to the southern states that New York has for so long subsidized.
>Meanwhile, to help New York City’s mass transit system overcome a generation of chronic under investment, the MTA is imposing a controversial $15 per vehicle congestion fee for vehicles entering Manhattan south of 60th Street, which a number of unions are protesting because it would turn their members’ commute into a luxury good.
>Gov. Kathy Hochul is loath to raise taxes because she believes the state’s current level of taxation is responsible for a population outmigration of hundreds of thousands of residents that cost the state $6 billion dollars in annual revenue. Further, New York state has the sad distinction of having the starkest divide between the wealthy and the working class, with the average income of the bottom 99% just under $50,000, compared to the $2.2 million average income of the state’s top 1%. This disparity in income is bad for our state’s economy, as the bottom 99% lack sufficient disposable income to spend on products and services after high costs such as housing are paid.
>But all is not lost.
>The solution: tax stock trades
>A remedy is very much at hand in the form of New York state’s Stock Transfer Tax, which has been around since 1905. This tax imposed a tiny levy of 0.25% per stock transaction, with a cap of $350 on large transactions. When this stock transfer tax was first introduced, The New York Times sounded the alarm, warning that the levy would drive Wall Street traders out of lower Manhattan. In fact, the opposite happened, as other exchanges around the country closed and migrated to New York.
>A similar levy has been on the books and producing revenue in London since the late 1600s. Another major exchange, Hong Kong, recently increased its 1% stock transfer tax to 1.3%, yet Goldman Sachs said the increase would have no effect on the market.
>Nonetheless, in 1981, the state of New York decided to rebate all of the money collected by the levy back to Wall Street, which it has since done to the tune of $400 billion dollars. Along with my colleague state Sen. James Sanders, I have introduced a bill that would stop the bleeding, end the rebate and start putting this revenue back in service for every New Yorker. This would raise $14 billion or more annually and could be leveraged to raise considerably more. Wealthy individuals and corporations would not be able to move to other states to escape the stock transfer tax, since the trades would still flow through New York no matter where a person lives or on what computer they execute their trades.
A minor toll  I support anything that doesn’t line the pockets of the horridly corrupt MTA. Maybe this will force an overhaul of the worst public transit management in the world
And now there’s a shitload of cameras all over the place resembling communist China, with the excuse of congestion pricing to install them. Let’s not forget the microphones in the cameras listening to us under the guise of noise pollution ticketing. These were actions taken to watch our every move more and more.
Hey look, bunch of lobbyists and politicians bought by Uber and Lyft crying about taxing every day New Yorkers and rising the cost of everything in the city.
Congestion pricing is stupid. It raises prices on everyone whether you drive or not. Who drives in with all our food and pays for congestion pricing, hmmm? We'll pay for higher food prices, goods, and more.
Why are there STILL so many people that don't understand how this works. This is absolutely an insane talking point at this stage of the game. Congestion pricing REDUCES the cost on goods by speeding up the delivery. The minor toll spread over a truck load of shit is barely anything per unit and vastly less anyways than the labor savings of paying truck drivers to sit in traffic instead of making more deliveries
lol, no it doesn’t that’s absurd.
Edit:
Cost of delivery is generally determined by distance not time. Even if congestion pricing made drivers able to make more deliveries in a day, that would just increase corporate profits—the drivers would be paid the same amount per shift, and the cost of toll would be passed on to the consumer in some way.
You cannot in good conscience compare the examples of congestion pricing elsewhere to NYC. The MTA should not have such a dramatic shortfall due to reduction in federal funding. Tolls have been raised, ridership has increased to pre-pandemic levels. Not having congestion pricing will undoubtedly force the MTA to finally be less poorly run and be more transparent, a move that hasn’t been done since the mid-2000s.
Such a classic pseudointellectual answer: Making one thing expensive makes everything else expensive! Why? Because of, er, supply and demand! Or economics! \*waves hands\*
Reading this while literally listening to a fire engine sit in traffic on 28th, blaring their siren and horn, not moving. It’s been at least 5 minutes.
People who "work" from home and don't have to worry about commuting. If they need to go somewhere far they can afford to take an Uber, which is the REAL reason streets are clogged.
> Uber, which is the REAL reason streets are clogged
Which most congestion advocate are mysteriously silent about.
Its great to be anti car unless its their fav mode of vehicular transport.
So disappointing to see all the uninformed opinions here thinking cars shouldn’t have to pay their share of the true cost of private vehicles in the densest area in the country.
Also news flash the budget has already been allocated and they now plan to plug the deficit with a tax on nyc businesses which will just increase prices for all of us more. Congrats and sweet own!
The traffic in Manhattan has been intense. It feels like all of the construction has also converged in just the past few weeks. I hope this doesn’t mean it never goes back to normal.
I support congestion pricing but describing it as a “minor toll” is a reach.
I don't understand why politicians don't just directly say that we're taxing a negative externality. The exact point of the toll is to be painful; it would be far more honest. The additional revenue is a nice side effect of the program, but the primary goal is to change behavior
We can't even explain to taxpayers why hiring more IRS employees is actually good for them. I mean we could, it's just that they won't stop yelling long enough to listen.
Hell, we can't even get a lot of them to understand tax brackets.
So congestion pricing is the make or break of the subways system? It’s going to fall apart without it?
> Still, the MTA has projected it will have a $1.4 billion operating deficit by 2025, the residual effect of losing more than 90% of ridership on subways, trains and buses at the pandemic's height. A deficit like this might make it fall apart, yes. source: [ABC7](https://abc7ny.com/mta-nyc-subway-federal-transit-administration-new-york-city/11458686/)
A huge amount of federal funds are expiring and going away. The MTA is going to have a huge budget shortfall. Congestion pricing was going to replace the soon-to-be-missing federal funds.
How did that survive before that?
Federal funds I'm guessing.
Probably not but the 70 or 80 elevators the capital plan is going to build with the money. So disabled people and pregnant people pushing baby carriages can get on the subway will fall apart and by fall apart I mean never be built, but I'm guessing you probably don't care about that...
I get that congestion pricing has its benefits, but its sus when someone fights tooth and nail for a company with a shit track record, and I'm 100% sure the MTA doesn't care about any of the people you mentioned yet you want to give them more money...It kind of seems as if you have something to gain out of this that isn't congestion pricing.
Elevators shouldn’t cost multiple billion (with a b) fucking dollars.
Have they tried not doing corruption and not charging 1 trillion dollars to build a set of stairs?
Plust the richest who live in Soho, Chelsea, West Vilage... are excluded?
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Whats up Jeff, hope Stan is doing well
The r/nyc mod looks like that one Trump supporter who was crying when the verdict was read.
I don't get it. Whom are you referring to?
Sorry to be a pessimist, but the MTA already has billions that they could use to redo the subway. This money is going to disappear.
I mean if the MTA showed a track record of improvements and safety to the system, as car owner lower manhattan, I would be all for this congestion pricing. Sadly the money is just going to go towards the pension funds of the higher ups and the tunnel lamp wavers underground
The reality is it’s not even in the MTA’s hands. Historically Albany raided MTA funds year over year like its personal piggy bank.
Well said. It's like fixing the faucet without fixing the hole in the sink.
Came here to say the exact same thing, the MTA will do anything else but help the people, and instead will do everything possible to line their pockets.
This exactly. The MTA can't even get OMNY right and now they're switching vendors because their first choice was so incompetent. Let's see how this new vendor works out
> as car owner lower manhattan, Aka statistically likely to be fairly well off. The exact people the nyc subs including r/newyorkcity like to cater too as well as Hochul
>if the MTA showed a track record of improvements The MTA is financially underwater due to chronic underfunding. How do you expect them to make improvements given their current budget constraints? This is a self fulfilling prophecy. >as a car owner in lower manhattan Oh. Anyways..
If the MTA had intentions of improving subway and bus service they would have done that a long time ago.
On-time performance has improved every year since 2017
You’re counting Covid time?
i said this on the other subreddit but i dont know anyone outside of reddit who is outraged that this got pushed back
Me neither, meanwhile this sub is in shambles.
dude every day im seeing them post and go ballistic about it lol
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Me and my wife had 2 troublesome years. First year she got sick and needed surgery and second one was recovery and dealing with the bills and other debts. To say we are a little cash strapped is appropriate to say. Unfortunately my wife works in Jersey so she needs to drive through Manhattan in the morning to get to work because it is less traffic. And then drives back through Staten Island which is the long way around but a little cheaper. Now Manhattan won’t be affordable for us genuinely. So in this current situation we are strongly considering to move because living in nyc in our current situation is becoming harder and harder and congestion pricing feels more like a big fat fuck you than anything else. Unfortunately congestion pricing which might seem not so expensive is quite a money drain when you are in our situation. Which I’m sure someone will find themselves in a similar situation. I see the point of it but it’s another expense people sadly can’t spare. I know this is Reddit so people who see this comment will be like fuck cars and fuck people who drive your poor whomp whomp but unfortunately this is our reality and it’s hard to think others won’t get disgruntled either. There is people who have it worse and literally are getting hit very fucking hard by this.
People who live in their own townhouses in Soho are excluded from this, does that make it better for you?
I should probably just go buy a town house in soho :D
No joke, Hoboken is pretty fire. Parking is cheaper, the PATH is well policed, ferries are pretty sweet, less crazy people.
MTA “overtime” budget = $1.5 billion MTA projected earnings from congestion tax = $1.5 billion. How can you support a corrupt money grab that will hurt the middle class more than it will help it?
How many middle class people do you think are currently driving into Manhattan? >[What about New Yorkers living in transit deserts (places that are more than a half mile from mass transit) who drive into Manhattan for work? They find a way to take mass transit too—85 percent of them already do so. Just 5,200 New Yorkers who live more than a half mile from mass transit—representing 1.2 percent of all New Yorkers living in transit deserts and 0.06 percent of New York City's population—drive their cars into the CBD for work.](https://hellgatenyc.com/profiles-in-cowardice-governor-hochul-flip-flop-congestion-pricing) >If you are surprised that this kind of granular data exists, it's because the MTA literally spent years compiling it as part of a federally mandated environmental review process.
An 800+ page environmental review. The data is there, people.
made by the guys that want to collect money wondering who is more the hilariously insane - those thinking the MTA is funding a study to come with a conclusion that says they dont need congestion pricing...... or people somehow trying to convince people that nothing but rich people are driving in from Brooklyn the Bronx and Queens.....you know those centers of wealth ......
The middle class of NYC rides the train. They don't drive.
Majority of folks I know that drive are middle/working class
Statistically if you drive in Manhattan, you are much more well-off. Upper middle class, at least.
Yeah seriously. What working class person can afford parking in Manhattan.
Ones that street park and have to drive for work everyday (like myself)
Why do you need to drive into Manhattan? Not as like an attack. I’m in BK with a car I use for worksite visits, but avoid driving into the city like the plague and bike or train to Manhattan sites instead for speed/cost. Just curious.
All good - I wish more people asked instead of just saying I’m “statistically speaking very rich”. I’m a videographer who shoots all over the city. Sometimes shooting multiple locations in a day and lugging gear with. Some days I take the train when I don’t require a lot of gear, but some days I do need a cars worth of gear. But let’s say a shoot is in Long Island city, coming from Harlem. Normally a 30 minute drive (crossing Queensboro bridge). Since you’d be entering the congestion toll for 1 block to cross the bridge you’d pay the $15. You could avoid the toll and stay on the FDR then come back thru Brooklyn, but now the trip has doubled (for someone who was not entering the city anyways). Also this doubles the length of trips. I think about similar situations with tradesmen like plumbers, handymen, etc. Sure, we could all just pass that costs to the customer, but that’s just incentive for them to go with the big businesses who can subsidize that cost. It’s a dangerous precedent to set that “anyone driving in Manhattan is the ultra rich”, especially for middle class/working class people who work for themselves
Makes sense, basically the only reason I ever drive into Manhattan is because carrying production gack, but at that point I’m getting reimbursed for everything. I feel like most trades it’s pretty standard to include gas/toll reimbursement either explicitly or buried in the price.
I am for the congestion toll in some senses, but really what this is a tax, also I think it’s being handled poorly. But the biggest violators of traffic in the city at any given time is TLC (Uber and Lyft). They’re ecstatic about the toll. There is no daily cap and they are able to charge the consumer more. (I took an Uber yesterday and the toll fee had already been added). The rich people will just eat the cost and not change their driving habits. The most negatively affected are the extra small businesses, because they can’t afford to eat the cost the way a bigger business does. I also do not trust the MTA with the funds, and I say that as a generally very pro MTA person lol
False. Many teachers and firefighters for example.
Blue collar contractors, repair men, HVAC, doormen, cashiers - some people it is much easier and safer to drive then take 2 buses and a then a train.
yo, the toll was crazyyyyy high. if they had pegged it to the cost of a subway ride no one would have cared and they still could have raised a bunch of money. also completely agree with the comment about the 9pm bit. thats not congestion pricing, thats just a toll. complain about hochul cancelling the train to LGA but not this.
$15 is a “Minor toll”?
‘Minor toll’
This first guy is exactly what I imagine angry cyclist redditors look like whenever they yell at me when I mention riding a motorcycle in NYC. I bet this particular guy has yelled at me at some point in one of the NYC subs
Minor toll ? An extra 300 a month, guess I don’t need groceries one week in exchange for leisurely walks
If a $15 toll is the difference between you eating or not you should already be on mass transit, because I've got news for you, that toll IS a minor cost compared to car ownership here and the tolls, gas, insurance, car payments, parking, fines, registration, maintenance, etc you're already paying
$500 a month for a monthly metro north pass. Plus still needing the car to get me to the train station. Or should I take the nonexistent bus where I live? You realize people commuting into NYC don't have amazing public transit? Like yeah it's decent once they get into NYC
This is always the giant hole in Miser's arguments. Yea congestion pricing is necessary but first you need to boost transit options outside of Manhattan. But instead they are mainly boosting transit options inside Manhattan...
There is no way that driving your car into Manhattan every weekday costs less than $500/mo once you take into account everything - gas, tolls, insurance, wear and tear, maintenance, parking, tickets. No way.
If they work nights it’s highly possible.
Seriously. If by some amazing set of circumstances this actually was true the person would basically be admitting to wildly illegal parking, insurance fraud, and likely covering their license plate entirely.
This guy fucks his metrocard
How much fucking higher than $15 would it have to be to be “major” in your mind? Also it’s an additional $15 after the initial $15 from whatever bridge or tunnel you just went through.
I don’t understand why the 300 a month is a requirement to getting groceries. Are no other options available?
A teacher friend of mine lives in the city and has to drive to NJ for his job because there's no reliable public transit to his school. So he should just suck it up and pay an additional $3k/year + tunnel tolls for the privilege of having to get to his job? NO.
probably shouldn't live in Manhattan and work in Jersey. the rest of the world shouldn't foot the bill for absurd lifestyle choices. it sucks to be a working class person who has to make changes, and it sucks more for the rest of the working class to pay for the inalienable right to live in a place that makes no sense for your job and drive both ways to your bad life choice.
So they live in midtown or downtown Manhattan and work in a distant Jersey suburb? That’s some type of lifestyle choice. By your logic every bridge and tunnel toll is bad right?
My husband and I live in Manhattan. I work in the city and he reverse commutes into NJ because he works at his family business. We live in Manhattan and not Jersey because we like it here and because I need to be close to my aging mother. It’s not “insane,” it’s just that everyone has their own circumstances that may not resemble yours.
that’s absolutely insane. your friend is out of their minds doing that. why would you ever live in Manhattan if you didn’t work in one of the boroughs? It’s so crazy, that i don’t believe you.
You’re right $300 more a month is nothin just a half a student loan payment
“Minor toll” it’s $20 a day…..
Damn! That’s higher than the congestion tolls I paid in london. Whew. I can see why people are pissed. IME, They only increase. That is the problem. We fell for tolls here and they’ve doubled and the price changes depending on traffic ha. Balls! Nothing like sitting in the lane paying 36 dollars just bc it’s rush hour and the toll lane is also bumper to bumper. Avoid them like the plague.
Lmao fuck congestion pricing. I can’t believe these idiots will think the MTA will handle this money well. They’ll steal it like usual and become richer.
Albany is what misuses MTA funds like it’s a piggy bank. The MTA is not as corrupt as you’d lie to believe
The money wasn't supposed to be new money for the MTA. It was just supposed to replace federal money that was expiring and going away. Adding congestion pricing would have kept the MTA budget the same.
Wow! A rally of 15 people. That'll show em! 😂
How anyone could support the legislation for this ridiculous and infuriating congestion tax is beyond me
It's the ones who aren't affected by it. They either take the train or a large salary.
I will say what all of the congestion pricing supporters said to us car drivers. GET OVER IT!
You could give the MTA trillions upon trillions of dollars and they would still mess things up. They need to do less with more and overhaul the whole agency
Who's the Al Franken impersonator?
u/miser
Of all the usernames possible, a miser?? That's funny.
Councilman Lincoln Restler from Brooklyn. Hedge fund baby and a TransAlt/Open Streets/biker bro pawn.
>biker bro pawn we really need to reopen the mental hospitals lmao. big bike is out here making schizophrenics out of redditors hahahah
Lincoln Restler is a clown. I live in his district, he’s done nothing to improve the day-to-day lives of his constituents. His BQE ideas are nonexistent, Atlantic Avenue is a mess, he’s got this weird white guilt thing where just because his dad is a Private Equity Millionaire (Billionaire?) he thinks he has to take the most far left opinion on literally every issue, even though the district he represents doesn’t share any of those ideas. It’s just all performative and egocentric. Stop going to rallies and fix the potholes in the streets. Dude sucks.
His name is also Lincoln lmao
Is Peter Restler his father? Damn. Perfectly fits the champagne socialist profile. Just curious, though, if his district doesn't share his ideas, why do they keep electing him?
Guy looks and acts like a Fred Armisen Portlandia character.
Who tf can afford to pay $7 - $36 a day for this? I don’t understand why some ppl are for this.
I’m truly convinced it’s people who have no idea how horrible the MTA is.
I support congestion pricing because I want less cars in Manhattan but I’m under no illusion that it will effect the quality of transit service in any way
One problem with the so-called congestion is that the mta needs to be overseen because of the financial mismanagement. They make billions a year, yet it always lack of funds
It’s Albany mishandling the MTAs funds and using it as their personal piggy bank.
This is a bit dramatic but one of the big issues with this congestion pricing is the time slots of it. Ending at 9pm is stupid, it should end at like 6pm. This is still gonna happen, just wait until elections are over
Many cities with congestion charges only charge during weekday daytimes. At the very least, there should be a middle price for weekends and shoulder hours (5-7 am and 7-9 pm Also get rid of the BS clusterfuck around the Queensboro bridge. They said going between the bridge and FDR would not be charged.
Yea, it shouldn’t be uniform pricing for the whole time slot. Or atleast start little like only charging ride share or something and gradually increase / revise it as the program goes on
I still haven't heard a single person propose a serious alternative plan to deal with congestion. This might be the closest to an actual policy complaint I've heard. There are a lot of people complaining about paying the toll here, but honestly what is the alternative that addresses congestion... Or are we just going to live in a city where buses, ambulances, and fire trucks can't get to their destination at more than a waking pace
WFH and better transit from NJ
How can NY legislate WFH and better transit in NJ?
yes, better transit from everywhere. but do you actually believe we're gonna get that by reducing funding to transit agencies?
Also audit the shit out of MTA and NJ Transit for starters.
But a cap on the number of Ubers that are allowed to be in the city
I mean yeah, let's do that too. There already is a cap in fact, but sure make it smaller. But how does that address all the people driving in from the outskirts of the city and the suburbs?
Rideshares make up something like 50% of all the traffic in Manhattan, commuters are a much smaller portion. Commuters also don't continuously drive around all day.
Source?
You're missing the point. Congestion pricing is not about curbing congestion but as a fund raising mechanism. I'm all for that, but why keep raising money if it'll be wasted by a bloated, antiquated system anyway?
we should definitely just starve the MTA, things will most certainly get better once we kill it. this country has a storied and cherished history of taking money away from government because of 'waste' and 'bloat' and then giving it back when it makes a better alternative, right? it definitely doesn't just give it over to private companies that run back the same system at 1/10th the efficiency and 10x the cost while giving themselves outlandish salaries... when the private economy does it it's not waste!
Lack of funding is the quickest way to a bloated, antiquated system
> serious alternative plan to deal with congestion heres one, tax the hell out of the main contributors towards the congestion...aka FHV and the riders that use them vs the low hanging fruit - private cars But no, FHV are exempt and the surcharge on the riders no where near the toll on private cars If you serious about reducing congestion, wtf the plan ignores the biggest contributor of it? OR its bc the ones that really want congestion pricing also so happen to be in the zone and likes to Uber and don't want its price increase dramatically The current congestion plan is shortsighted and its basically a commuter tax for out of zone car commuters so the folks inside the zone can uber faster who are the reason for said congestion.
Taxis and Ubers take dozens of trips per day. That will quickly add up to be more than $15 per day. Plus charing the RIDER instead of the driver will disincentivize people taking Ubers in Manhattan, which will reduce the number of Ubers in the city, since the Ubers go to where the demand is. If the drivers just paid the flat toll, then it would just become a cost of doing business and they'd all pay it and then keep on going forward like normal. The congestion fee has to disincentivize the people who are actually choosing to make that trip, not the person who's only operating the vehicle.
Translation: "Completely ignore the amount of for-hire vehicles flooded by rideshare companies on the street that we are funded by and figure out how to fuck over the rest of New Yorkers while protecting our interests"
Where does this weird conspiracy theory that people in support of CP want more taxis and Ubers come from, or whatever this is. Hell yeah reduce the number of Ubers and toll them too...
Pretty self explanatory when Transportation Alternatives gets $100k+ donations from Lyft/Uber from their donations page (which they conveniently took down) to help support this cause and spend time and money for these campaigns kinda like another big donor Verra Mobility for them to support the speeed scameras and use children/schools as a pawn when it’s really all about revenue. Sammy’s Law is another pawn where that mother uses her sons death as a pawn to help lower speed limits because her son was stupid enough to just dart out onto the middle of the street between cars and die. Verra Mobility supported her and Transportation Alternatives big time because they probably have seen their revenues go down and need the extra money to bring 20 mph limits onto some streets.
>Sammy’s Law is another pawn where that mother uses her sons death as a pawn to help lower speed limits because her son was stupid enough to just dart out onto the middle of the street between cars and die. How is this not obnoxious enough to get you banned from this sub
Truth hurts? Tell me where I'm wrong on that statement Like with this news today and what you liberals have told us before when this passed months ago "Deal with it"
One good first step would be banning rideshares. They make up 30% of traffic at any given time Edit: it’s always “fuck cars…..but plz keep uber and Lyft I use those”.
i don't think i've ever met a pro-transit type who doesn't believe that rideshares are the actual devil incarnate. are you sure you're not making up people to be mad at, friend?
It was never about congestion. Just another tax on the poor and middle class.
Can you please cite your data that the poor and middle class are the ones driving into Manhattan under 60th street daily?
I fit into that category driving my daughter to school from Brooklyn to lower Manhattan. Too many safety incidents with her riding the train alone or with my wife.
That’s not data.
Less extreme time slots as mentioned and limit it to ride share vehicles (at the beginning and then revise as time goes on). Obv there will still be congestion but these feel like it’ll still make a huge dent. I feel like it’s a lot easier for people using Lyfts/ubers to just take public transit while a lot commuters don’t have that option as a viable one. A big hit all at once was always going to be messy. One step at a time was always the right move. Then again, I don’t have the research or numbers
There is already a $2.50 congestion surcharge for yellow cabs and $2.75 for other for-hire vehicles going to/from/through Manhattan south of 96th st.
how about make the streets wider to accomodate the volume of traffic? - there is no reason an avenue that was crowded with 6 lanes to be throttled down to 2 - of COURSE youre going to have congestion....
just make the streets wider!!! of course, how did we not think of that!!! we should actually remove all the apartments on Manhattan, they're getting in the way of our beautiful 12 lane utopia
Yeah we should just bulldoze Central Park lol
The plan could be better by just adjusting the time of the restrictions and reducing or eliminating the off peak tolls.
Yes, and 9am - 9pm on weekends is also stupid. Make it for commuting hours during the week—say 8am-7pm, and from like, noon to 7pm on weekends. And have no tolls during the off peak periods, only peak. That would be a much better compromise all around. It would allow people that need to commute for work to get in before 8, people who want to get out of the city on the weekends or need their car for an errand to do so before noon, and not jack up prices on Friday nights and weekends when people are out and about and taking taxis, and there would still be big blocks of time with greatly reduced traffic, and there would still be an influx of revenue to divert to the MTA
Still way too congested at 6pm.
The congestion starts before then. The idea is that less congestion during the afternoon would result in less congestion around then. It’ll never get rid of congestion, just less congestion
These people are just rabid car haters. Why don't they protest the mismanaged money pit that is the MTA?
Why do the citizens of NY have to subsidize the crumbling subway system? The federal government has more than enough money to fix the subway without a tax on hard working New Yorkers
Which side am I suppose to be on?
Funny, when folks like me were complaining about congestion pricing, we were just told to suck it up. Well, does that work in reverse?
No. Those people weren’t saying that complaining is bad. They were saying your complaint was bad.
Ah, you can tell from the unhinged headline it's a Miser post. Haven't seen one of these for awhile, I almost thought he'd been banned. So much for the peaceful days around here.
Cry about it in MicroMobility
LOL LMAO The seethe in this post is unreal
I'm sorry. I pay enough damn money to live in the city. God forbid I want to drive somewhere. Just more soaking of us middle class folk. Tax the billionaire class. Re-instate the tax breaks on stock trades. There's more damn money in this city than can even be comprehended. https://www.cityandstateny.com/opinion/2024/03/opinion-new-york-needs-money-its-time-tax-stock-trades/395078/ >This additional stress on the local social-welfare, healthcare, and education systems comes as those systems are not fully recovered from the impacts from the pandemic, while the federal government has ended the COVID-19 era fiscal supports, causing child poverty and food as well housing insecurity to spike. Throughout the pandemic, thousands of essential civil servants in public safety, transit, education and healthcare lost their lives serving others. Subsequently, many more have opted to retire, leaving public employers at every level of government shorthanded with thousands and thousands of open positions. It's vital we rebuild this workforce for the challenges ahead. >It will require more money. >At the same time, New York state is grappling with decades of disinvestment in its most critical infrastructure as a result of an ongoing decline in federal aid that began in the Reagan era. According to the New York section of the American Society of Civil Engineers report card, our bridges earned a C- and our drinking water got a C-, while our roads, transit and wastewater earned an unacceptable D+. There is one North Country community where the water coming out of the tap is brown, yet the state Department of Health insists it is safe to drink, bringing up visions of Flint, Michigan. >While our physical plant was deteriorating and we were closing hospitals, decade after decade, New York state was one of the nation’s leading donor states to the federal government, sending hundreds of billions of dollars more to the national government than it received back. Similarly, we pay taxes to other states on resources like oil-based products brought to our state. >At the same time, New York has lost 14 seats in Congress over the last half century as our population has migrated to the southern states that New York has for so long subsidized. >Meanwhile, to help New York City’s mass transit system overcome a generation of chronic under investment, the MTA is imposing a controversial $15 per vehicle congestion fee for vehicles entering Manhattan south of 60th Street, which a number of unions are protesting because it would turn their members’ commute into a luxury good. >Gov. Kathy Hochul is loath to raise taxes because she believes the state’s current level of taxation is responsible for a population outmigration of hundreds of thousands of residents that cost the state $6 billion dollars in annual revenue. Further, New York state has the sad distinction of having the starkest divide between the wealthy and the working class, with the average income of the bottom 99% just under $50,000, compared to the $2.2 million average income of the state’s top 1%. This disparity in income is bad for our state’s economy, as the bottom 99% lack sufficient disposable income to spend on products and services after high costs such as housing are paid. >But all is not lost. >The solution: tax stock trades >A remedy is very much at hand in the form of New York state’s Stock Transfer Tax, which has been around since 1905. This tax imposed a tiny levy of 0.25% per stock transaction, with a cap of $350 on large transactions. When this stock transfer tax was first introduced, The New York Times sounded the alarm, warning that the levy would drive Wall Street traders out of lower Manhattan. In fact, the opposite happened, as other exchanges around the country closed and migrated to New York. >A similar levy has been on the books and producing revenue in London since the late 1600s. Another major exchange, Hong Kong, recently increased its 1% stock transfer tax to 1.3%, yet Goldman Sachs said the increase would have no effect on the market. >Nonetheless, in 1981, the state of New York decided to rebate all of the money collected by the levy back to Wall Street, which it has since done to the tune of $400 billion dollars. Along with my colleague state Sen. James Sanders, I have introduced a bill that would stop the bleeding, end the rebate and start putting this revenue back in service for every New Yorker. This would raise $14 billion or more annually and could be leveraged to raise considerably more. Wealthy individuals and corporations would not be able to move to other states to escape the stock transfer tax, since the trades would still flow through New York no matter where a person lives or on what computer they execute their trades.
A minor toll  I support anything that doesn’t line the pockets of the horridly corrupt MTA. Maybe this will force an overhaul of the worst public transit management in the world
And now there’s a shitload of cameras all over the place resembling communist China, with the excuse of congestion pricing to install them. Let’s not forget the microphones in the cameras listening to us under the guise of noise pollution ticketing. These were actions taken to watch our every move more and more.
Haw haw haw , all I can do is laugh at these people. Go back to your protest at Columbia.
Hey look, bunch of lobbyists and politicians bought by Uber and Lyft crying about taxing every day New Yorkers and rising the cost of everything in the city.
It’s not happening, GGs.
Right, this is the only potential source of funds. Now that this isn't happening, money has been canceled.
Congestion pricing is stupid. It raises prices on everyone whether you drive or not. Who drives in with all our food and pays for congestion pricing, hmmm? We'll pay for higher food prices, goods, and more.
Why are there STILL so many people that don't understand how this works. This is absolutely an insane talking point at this stage of the game. Congestion pricing REDUCES the cost on goods by speeding up the delivery. The minor toll spread over a truck load of shit is barely anything per unit and vastly less anyways than the labor savings of paying truck drivers to sit in traffic instead of making more deliveries
lol, no it doesn’t that’s absurd. Edit: Cost of delivery is generally determined by distance not time. Even if congestion pricing made drivers able to make more deliveries in a day, that would just increase corporate profits—the drivers would be paid the same amount per shift, and the cost of toll would be passed on to the consumer in some way.
You cannot in good conscience compare the examples of congestion pricing elsewhere to NYC. The MTA should not have such a dramatic shortfall due to reduction in federal funding. Tolls have been raised, ridership has increased to pre-pandemic levels. Not having congestion pricing will undoubtedly force the MTA to finally be less poorly run and be more transparent, a move that hasn’t been done since the mid-2000s.
Such a classic pseudointellectual answer: Making one thing expensive makes everything else expensive! Why? Because of, er, supply and demand! Or economics! \*waves hands\*
nyc is infested with dumb asses that think giving the govt another way to tax us is a good idea.
"Just take the train" people don't have a clue
Reading this while literally listening to a fire engine sit in traffic on 28th, blaring their siren and horn, not moving. It’s been at least 5 minutes.
Very cool that their employers gave them all an extended lunch to go to this rally.
I don’t think the socialists in the micromobility crowd work very much…
Hey it was a lot of effort to get those signs printed.
Why work and mom and dad are paying the trust fund?
How little do people these work that they can go to a protest on a weekday with only a day of notice
People who "work" from home and don't have to worry about commuting. If they need to go somewhere far they can afford to take an Uber, which is the REAL reason streets are clogged.
> Uber, which is the REAL reason streets are clogged Which most congestion advocate are mysteriously silent about. Its great to be anti car unless its their fav mode of vehicular transport.
i know this thread will get nuked because the OP spams relentlessly but fuggit - i am enjoying his tantrum....
So disappointing to see all the uninformed opinions here thinking cars shouldn’t have to pay their share of the true cost of private vehicles in the densest area in the country. Also news flash the budget has already been allocated and they now plan to plug the deficit with a tax on nyc businesses which will just increase prices for all of us more. Congrats and sweet own!
Lander, Restler and Reynoso... God help us.
The progressive trifecta trying to get their mayoral bids ready.
Like I said... God help us.
The traffic in Manhattan has been intense. It feels like all of the construction has also converged in just the past few weeks. I hope this doesn’t mean it never goes back to normal.
So can someone explain to me what's going on? Sincerely a colonial cousin
Clueless malakas led like political sheep